Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Aug 11, 2009 
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The Yankees lost and he did not pitch well, but Sergio Miyre will keep his job as the No. 5 starter. Ernie Palladino has the story.
Alfredo Aceves pitched well in relief. This notebook also has updates on Johnny Damon and Phil Hughes.
That botched double play really turned me off Mitre. If you don’t have your good stuff at least make easy plays. Why pick up Gaudin if he isn’t going to pitch?
Give it time, Gaudin will be in there shortly if Mitre keeps this up. Girardi has a lot of confidence in Mitre for some odd reason.
Pete’s back!
That botched double play really turned me off Mitre. If you don’t have your good stuff at least make easy plays. Why pick up Gaudin if he isn’t going to pitch?
—————————————————
Thats the second time Mitre has botched the throw to 2nd base…about 3 starts ago he did the same thing when Jeter was covering. Also, he “sat down” on a bunt against Chicago. He needs to go through all the spring training drills for pitchers before he will be ready to field his position.
How can Cashman look MO in the eye and tell him he has to have Sergio Mitre pitching every 5th day?
m
Here’s the link for the Brady story and pics
http://men.style.com/details/f.....tent_10457
Girardi is an extremely loyal (and some may say obstinate) man. He’s shown that he has ‘his guys’ (Swisher, Ransom, Mitre, etc.) and no amount of uproar from the fan base is going to sway him.
I would not be surprised if the move to DFA Ransom came from above, and was something he fought. If you’re in his clubhouse and one of his guys, you would have to love him for that.
Truthfully, how can anyone argue at this point? He’s guided the Yanks to the exact point we would all have hoped for in the off-season: in 1st with a little bit of breathing room in August.
If he’s comfortable running Mitre out there, and continually playing the human whiffing machine in right field everyday, so be it.
The first error mitre had throwing to second, the booth explained that as a new pitcher it’s tough knowing exactly where the middle infielders like to play and where they like the ball. You take that extra second to make sure and it throws off the timing of the play.
Like I said, I’m okay with mitre taking the ball. But he really pitches like a rookie. But your claim to fame is playing Fez on “That 70′s Show”, whatcha going do?
Mitre may not be pitching great but the guy does have the stuff to make it here. It’s a little to much to ask a guy coming off Tommy John to just be lights out. I hope the Yankees don’t give up on this guy. He could be serivable in the future.
It has nothing to do with loyalty. Gaudin threw 85 pitches in his last outing last week, and a bullpen on Sunday.
Managers don’t throw pitchers out there the day after they throw a bullpen.
How can anybody go into panic mode over the #5 starter?
I get that some of you believe the Yankees should go undefeated the rest of the way but, that’s not how it works.
Mitre isn’t that great. However, he’s not going to decide the pennant race.
Save the drama for the post-season.
i think Mitre will come around… hating him will soon be a memory.
Well as long as Joe is pleased with Mitre,sigh…doesn’t matter what the fans think.
How can Theo tell Big Papi that Tawaza has to be the Sox #5 starter?
Mitre’s comments would indicate that he’s a stand-up guy. I’m nervous when he’s penciled in as the starter, but Girardi sure knows more about it than we do.
Seems like all other likely options are NL cast-offs, too.
Since the manager is currently managing the team with the best record in baseball, what the fans think shouldn’t matter.
He’s not managing by taking a fan poll of every decision.
Seems to me he’s doing a good job so far. If not, how do you explain the teams success and the players solidly behind him.
Try reading Larry Brooks’ story in the NY Post today about the bullpen, and Bruney’s comments about Girardi, and you will learn something about bullpen management and usage.
I’m not saying 5 runs in 5 innings is great, but he’s been consistantly around that number since he’s been with us. Considering we’ve won most of the games he’s pitched, usually we can cover up for his subpar outtings. Last night we came up a run short (mostly because in my opinion we’re still relying too much on the long ball) but its not the end of the world. Mirte most certainly won’t last for I’d guess another two or three starts for the rest of the season and in the grand scheme of things at this moment I dont think thats something to fret over.
Who’s in panic mode?
Some people seem to complain about posters just for the sake of complaining.
From what I’ve read, people may seem mildly annoyed, but where, exactly, is the panic?
Coulda, woulda, shoulda. If the horse didn’t stop for directions, he would have won the race.
I just have to wonder if the coaches will be giving Mitre extra practice at the basics of fielding his position. He does seem to have decent movement on the ball, but he is terrible throwing the ball to make an out.
I just don’t like to see sloppy playing.
Gaudin should have been set up to take over from Mitre though. I understand about not using after he throws, but everyone knew Mitre wasn’t going to go deep in the game. Why not plan it better and have Gaudin available? Instead Aceves was in for a long stint and won’t be available today. With Joba pitching I would rather have kept that bullet in the arsenal as Joba might not go deep (though he might) but he doesn’t give up leads all the time like clockwork.
I can take a loss, but this was a better opportunity to see what Gaudin was capable of without putting a more likely win at risk.
Roover, I dont think people are panicking so much. I think more of the comments are in reference to the complaints about Girardi more than anything. After the loss, lots of people reverted back to the April mentality of calling for his firing because he threw a guy out in the number 5 spot out of sheer necessity. Everyone must known Mitre isnt an ideal choice (including Girardi) but he’s pretty much all we have as there are very few options right now. People on the boards have been making Gaudin seem like a savior just because he happened to be aquired and I think thats why others are telling everyone to effectively ‘calm down.’
Another game of Mitre, another game where the Yankees have to score 5, 6 or 7 runs. I simply don’t understand the Yankees thinking here……Aceves gives us a much better chance at a win, even against another team’s #5 and he is sort of being wasted, pitching in games where his task is just to keep the game close.
SJ, it’s a futile effort. Very few individuals here grasp the concept that Girardi knows more about baseball than most of us (if not all of us). The constant complaints and second guessing get old, but it’s a blog and that’s what you’re going to get. Monday morning quarterbacks and the sort dominate the blogosphere forever and that’s probably not going to change. You just have to sift through and find what’s worth reading for you.
Life is good people. The Yankes are in first place and are 5.5 games ahead of Boston. The starting pitching has looked great as of late, with the exception of Mitre. But hes your fifth starter, so what do you really expect. So let’s try to be happy and positive for a change.
I mean come on, it could be a lot worse. For instance, you could be a Mets fan.
“I can take a loss, but this was a better opportunity to see what Gaudin was capable of without putting a more likely win at risk.”
We were down by a run so the game was within our grasp…putting in Ace was a signal to me that Joe still thought we should be trying to win the game last night, and he was right. If Joe thinks putting Gaudin into a game we are leading will put the game at risk then you probably wont see him for a while.
I think Aceves is going to become the #5 starter but it just takes time. Also, I don’t think Girardi wants to announce that he is going to be the #5 starter and then have teams know the Yankees are “stretching him out” and approach the games he pitches like the ones where Joba was being stretched out last year–Toronto I remember pretty much said after a game that they were taking as many pitches as possible against Joba because they knew his pitch count was nothing more than 40 pitches or something. The parallel between the two (Joba and Ace) is not perfect, but I don’t think Girardi wants to tip his hand publicly just yet–however, it seems like the idea is that Ace could replace Mitre, and Ace would be replaced in the bullpen by Gaudin.
SJ, I don’t see panic – reasonable people can agree to disagree reasonably. We don’t know what will or will not decide the division. How do you know that one or two games won’t make a difference? If we can send out a better (in Aceves case, a MUCH better) pitcher every 5th day, why not do it? For a long time, I was convinced he was better off in the pen…….that the pen would be depleted without him. That may be true, but the pen is being depleted with him in it anyway, whatwith Mitre being as bad as he’s been. We also don’t know yet what we’re getting from Joba on a start to start basis – he’s still prone to short outings.
They probably are setting up Gaudin to do what you want him to do.
He didn’t report until Sunday. After throwing a bullpen, he wasn’t available last night. Doesn’t mean he won’t be used, and used heavily, down the stretch. Especially if he pitches well when given the opportunity.
If Mitre throws the ball to second base properly last night, he wins the game. Its that simple.
Its baseball, it happens, you move on.
The Yankees aren’t going to give the guy many more chances to impact their season in a negative way.
He probably gets one more start to show improvement. If he can’t, they have options (Gaudin or Aceves) to explore.
Its the daily Girardi bashing on here that’s more tiring than anything. The guy has done a great job this year and some folks continue to rip him. Mostly on issues they know nothing about and it shows by their posts.
When you are in first place, in control of your division, and have shown a good balance in giving your older players rest and not overworking your bullpen, its ok to give the manager credit. Its not a sin.
Whining constantly about the guy, which some do daily on here, allows for little credibility when it comes to their analyizing of his skills.
They should just flip flop Aceves and Mitre.
Aceves should be stretched out now being that he pitched 4 innings yesterday, although I don’t know how many pitches he threw.
Just move Aceves to the role of starting pitcher and let Gaudin pitch in the bullpen in the role of Aceves.
You still have your shut down 8th and 9th inning guys and Gaudin did have 105 strikeouts in 105 innings so he can pitch.
No more Mitre!
I do like Joe keeping an eye out for Phil and being very aware that he can’t and shouldn’t overuse him…….
There’s only 6-7 weeks left in the regular season?
If 1-4 do their job, they could throw me out there as their #5. I’m not saying it’s not important to win the 5th game, just saying they need to grind through 6 more starts in that slot. No sense doing a total makeover (Aceves) when they’re right where they want to be.
Now if we slide, and the postseason looks in doubt, then you’ll see activity.
But this isn’t 2008, where we had to scratch and claw and throw the kitchen sink to find a pitcher that could actually get the job done (the only one, ironically enough, was Aceves).
They have the luxury of a cushion with a short window until the end of the season, so they can live with mitre as long as they can limit his damage. Which they’ve done. No 8,9,10 run games from him. We’ve won 60% of his starts, and I think that’s good enough for them at this juncture.
This makes no sense to me what so ever. Why does the coaching staff and front office have this sense of allegiance to Sergio Mitre? For all intents and purposes hes a nobody, as he has been his whole career and hes showing more and more as to why this is. The guy wasnt even that good in Florida, what makes the Yankees think hes going to all of a sudden snap out of it in the AL East? I mean we’re not talking about a proven veteran going through a rough stretch here, we’re talking about a “never was” who still isnt. What was the point of acquiring Gaudin if youre just going to keep marching Mitre out there to throw away games? At least Gaudin has had some success in the AL, jeesh give the guy a shot. Just another baffling decision to me. He is who we thought he was and we’re letting him throw games away.
Come on. Even Igawa had better numbers than this guy. From time to time the K-Man or guys like Karstens, Rasner and Ponson would even turn in a decent performance or even a quality start.
Aceves pitching 4 innings gave Girardi a chance to rest everyone else in our pen, making all of our other relievers available tonight which (gasp!) might be more helpful than simply having Aceves fresh. Besides, if Joba cant get deep then maybe we can see what Gaudin is made of. I’m sure they arent, but Aceves has pitched quite a bit his past two appearances. It makes me wonder if they’re stretching him in case. Again, I’m sure I’m wrong on this, but I thought it was interesting he pitched 3 innings in the Sox series then 4 last night. They could simply be making sure he’s getting enough work that he can be our regular long man I guess.
Girardi figured that we have 5 innings to score atleast 1 run. It’s not his fault the offense took the rest of the game off… he played that game expecting us to rally. Leaving in Aceves was the right move.
Betsy,
You are not going to win every game the rest of the season, no matter who pitches.
Last night, they are down ONE run to the Jays. The fact is, Mitre and Ace kept them in the game. It was a rare night the offense couldn’t get it going. That’s going to happen.
Girardi has to give some of the older players some rest. If not, they will wear down in September and October.
Part of having a 6 1/2 game lead going into last nights game is, you have room to do just what he needs to do with the roster.
This team is down one run in the 6th inning. That’s a winnable game. It just didn’t happen last night.
Mitre has upside and given our cushion in the AL east / wild card (it would be hard for us to miss the playoffs barring epic collapse) it makes sense to want to see where Mitre is at post surgery.
He has really, really good stuff. His periphs were nearly identical to wang when wang was good but he strikes out more guys (and gives up more HRs).
He is returning from major surgery and if he can show improvement, then we might continue to employ Mitre next season. And Mitre as the #6 or #7 is much better than Igawa or whomever.
Your team is in first place.
It’s sunny outside.
There’s a car chase on MSNBC.
Life is good.
23 IP
38 hits allowed
1.91 WHIP
7.04 e.r.a.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....yerId=5596
who wouldn’t want to see more of that?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....yerId=5596
the numbers are there, read them subjectively
The problem is, you are putting a lot of pressure on your #1-4 starters to win because you have a 7.00 ERA pitcher as your #5.
For example, Joba has a lot of pressure on him to win tonight (in relative terms, not that a loss means much) because if he loses, we have lost the series on the heels of a long 10 game road trip from coast to coast.
Joba is a young guy who is going be up and down. He’ll have starts like he did against Tampa and starts like he did against Boston. But his margin for error is limited considering he is following up a guy who has a 7 ERA and burns the pen every start.
Gaudin wasn’t available last night. What part of that do you fail to comprehend?
Nobody puts a guy out there after throwing a bullpen session the day before.
It has nothing to do with “allegience”. It has to do with putting the only guy out there they had last night to start the game.
They now have a fully rested pen, except for Aceves, for the rest of the series. That’s a good thing.
As others have stated, they are down one run in the 6th inning. The game was not “over”.
Unfortunately, it was one night the offense didn’t get it down. It happens.
Shame,
That’s the problem, Aceves shouldn’t be our long man. He’s our 3rd best pitcher out of the bullpen behind Rivera & Hughes.
The smartest thing to do was to put Hughes in when Wang went down the second time. The second smartest thing would’ve been to put Aceves in the rotation instead.
But if they’re not going to use him as a starter, then use him for something other than a long guy.
Shorter, more frequent appearances would do a long way.
Last night SHOULD have been Mitre’s last chance. It’s time to move on to Gaudin or Aceves.
We won a game that Mitre started against Dallas Braden, Oakland’s ace.
Sox won last night a game started by Penny against the best pitcher in the AL (Jackson).
Sometimes the offense has to win you games.
I don’t think there’s much pressure on Joba tonight. They won 7 of their last 8. Pressure? Tazawa has pressure.
There isn’t a “lot of pressure” on Joba tonight. There is a “lot of pressure” on some fans to keep from panicking.
This team doesn’t look to “panicked” to me. They are laughing and joking in the dugout all the time.
As Rebecca said, your team is in first place. Relax.
Nobody has great #5 starters around baseball this year. In fact, many of the teams have guys worse than Mitre and that’s saying something.
He probably gets one more shot to show what he can do.
Regardless, he’s not going to decide the race so don’t get so fixated on it. That just makes you a bridgejumper. We have enough of those on here already.
Our biggest problem is our #5 starter isn’t that great.
What does that tell you
What does that tell you
—
We’re going to da world series!!!
While Mitre might not “decide the race” it’s still silly to keep running him out there. He’s been given 5 starts now right? The Yankees see what he has, it’s time to end the Mitre experience. Stick Gaudin or Ace in the starting rotation.
Jerkface
August 11th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
What does that tell you
—
We’re going to da world series!!!
____________________________________________________________
Don’t Jinx it people
Jerkface
August 11th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
What does that tell you
—
We’re going to da world series!!!
____________________________________________________________
Don’t Jinx it people
i’m much rather loss every now and then during regular season and give ourselves a better chance of winning in teh post season – people like Mitre, Gaudin, etc are going to do that by enabling us to rest Joba, A-Rod, Matsui, Jeter, Damon… If we have a fresher bull penn maybe CC doesn’t have to pitch 123 pitches that often and AJ and Andy can get some rest as well. CC has been a horse in teh last few years but you can rid a horse too hard as we saw last year in the postseason
The aim is not to win the AL East – its to win no 27!
Just thinking about the playoffs again makes me shake. LOL
I will probably spend October reminding myself to breathe
That’s what I said too Rebecca. I am OK with where we are and if Aceves is the biggest issue, I can live with it because it will all get straightened out. As long as the 4 other guys continue to show up they will be fine.
Come on Joba,looking forward to a good game.
as long as Joe doesn’t serve up the Meat-tray in Fenway, I have no problem w/giving him another opportunity.
Chad Gaudin isn’t going to morph into Nolan Ryan, so it’s six of one, a half-dozen of the other…
Hey SJ, speaking of fans needing to relax, I was listening to WFAN yesterday and I couldn’t believe all the negative calls from Yankee fans. I’m in my car thinking, we are in first place, just swept the red sox and have the best record in baseball ….. what is there to complain about?!!!! And this was BEFORE the loss last night. Those “fans” must be in pain today.
I still can’t believe some of those calls. People actually worried the Yankees are over preforming and will collapse like the Mets did the last two years. Yeeesh!
While I would have Aceves in the rotation if I was the manager that’s not my decision, it’s Girardi’s. The Yankees have the best record in baseball, I see no reason to criticize him for moves such as this. At the end of the day it’s not going to matter much anyway-Mitre most likely will not be a factor in the post-season and the Yankees will certainly win enough games down the stretch to easily make the playoffs. It’s totally unimportant to win 100+ games in the regular season-just remember Seattle and the way the Yankees took care of them in the playoffs the year they won about 115 games.
I can’t wait for Gaudin’s debut,an extra arm in the pen great.
I don’t think complaining about Mitre should be construed as panic in the least. A bad #5 isn’t a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. However, he simply isn’t getting it done and if Mo has to be brought into games that he shouldn’t have to be, well that is a big deal in my opinion.
To simply write it off as, “well they won’t win them all” isn’t a good enough answer for me. This team should put out the best guy for the number 5 spot and Mitre isn’t him right now. This team is special and will make the playoffs but it doesn’t hurt to give someone else a shot when the guy they are throwing out there right now is ineffective and needs his offense to bail him out. I’m sure this will change in September regardless.
I wasn’t aware of Gaudin’s schedule so that is a helpful piece of info.
I love that Chad Gaudin has all of a sudden become our savior for the season. Everyone can complain about Girardi’s decision to send Mitre out there, but the bottom line is he doesnt have a choice. Losing Wang this season was a BIG BLOW to our pitching staff and somehow we’re still at the top of our division (which also happens to be the most difficult in the league). No one could have forseen Wang’s season take the route it did or how important Hughes would become for our pen. The fifth spot will work itself out, its up to the other guys to do what they have to do in the 1-4 spots. And for those saying thats too much pressure.. I dont even know how to respond to that. These guys are professionals. They’re literally paid to throw a ball. They should be able to handle it.
Going into yesterday’s game the yankees had a little over a 60% chance of winning the game.
By the time Mitre lest the yankees probability of winning was down to around 40%.
In that period of time the offense had scored 4 runs in 4 innings.
So the offense scored 4 runs in the first 4 innings and the teams probability of winning falls.
You score 4 runs in 4 innings and you should have a probability of winning the game that’s up around 80%. Instead it was 40%.
Mitre’s pitching chopped their probability of winning that game by half.
And the team only had that much of a shot because Mitre got taken out of the game so quickly. That of course left a huge gulf of where to get innings from to clean up the mess of blown leads.
Aceves isn’t really a regular bull pen pitcher anymore.
He’s essentially evolved into Mitre’s caddy.
Mitre gives them no length or quality. Aceves comes in and pitches much, much better but in much lower leverage situations than the one’s mitre has because Mitre’s pitched poorly before Aceves.
It’s true that most teams have bad #5 starters.
But the reason why is that they just can’t come up with a decent guy to slot in.
The yankees have one in Aceves and the should use him because he’d be a significant marginal advantage.
Here’s the thing – if most teams have an awful #5 and your team can come up with a good #5 you’ve just generated an enormous benefit for you club.
The difference between CC and Josh Beckett or Matt Garza is small. Those guys cancel each other out as the respective teams cycle through their rotations.
The difference between Aceves and say Tazawa or Penny – is likely to be very significant. It’s a considerable marginal advantage for the team.
People focus much too much on the bull pen.
Phil Hughes has been one of the yankees 5 best pitchers this year.
The yankees swept 4 games from the Sox. And phil hughes threw 0.2 inning over 4 games. 0.2 innings out of the 42 innings they played against the sox.
Hughes is going to stay in the pen this year. Fine.
But this team would win more games with Aceves in the rotation than they would with Aceves in the pen, especially when Aceves has evolved into Mitre’s mop up man out of necessity.
Hey:
Was anyone at the meet and greet yesterday at the stadium? How did that go? Did they pose for photos? Sign autographs? Take questions? How long were they there?
Thanks
Joe
Mitre once dated Girardi’s sister.
Mitre is a #5 starter coming off Tommy John surgery – he’s keeping his team in the game and that’s all you can ask. He does have good stuff, and having a sinkerballer type in the #5 slot is a nice complement to any rotation and bullpen. Gaudin, if/when he gets a chance, is just as likely to give you 2 1/3 as he is 6 1/3, and is much more likely to give up the long ball (especially at Yankee Stadium 3.0, and walk more hitters. Mitre probably won’t be making the all-star team anytime soon, but he’ll get you 5 innings most nights, will generally keep the ball in the yard and make hitters earn it. And he is likely to continue to improve his command and stuff as he gets healthier and stronger.
Gaudin will get innings eventually. And even if he doesn’t get many he’s still a good pick up for the stretch run. They probably picked him up now because they won’t have many more chances to get experienced arms again because Boston (and every other team) will have waiver wire priority from here on out (hopefully). Cash and co. are stocking up while they can.
Aceves, Aceves, Aceves..it’s time…he’s stretched out now.Mitre is pretty good against righties so valuable for the pen.