Physics prof: Fences are too close
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I’m not going to pretend I understand the science and physics of how and why a baseball carries, because I don’t. There’s a reason I was a journalism major.
But Alan M. Nathan from the University of Illinois Dept. of Physics certainly does understand and he did a study of the new Yankee Stadium.
To boil down his findings: The ball doesn’t carry any better at Yankee Stadium than anywhere else, in fact it doesn’t carry well at all compared to other parks. The fences are just too darn close.
One of our loyal readers, CB, tipped me off to this. He saw the report on Dave Pinto’s Baseball Musings site. So thanks to those guys.
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on Friday, August 14th, 2009 at 1:53 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Minga, Pete. THAT HURT!!!
Fortunately it ain’t Citi Field
Isn’t this what we’ve been saying all along? Push the fences back?
I hope they do. I can’t stand hearing about it all the time. And even when they do, it’ll take Pavlovian methods to stop “analysts” and “broadcasters” from calling it a launchpad.
Oh, and BTW. The Yankees can hit balls out of other parks, too. And the opponent on any given day are working with the same dimensions. So there’s no significant advantage for the Yankees.
Thanks Pete.
This is bar none the best study and analysis I’ve seen to date on home runs at the new yankee stadium.
By the way the ball is carrying and the way the initial speed and angle off the bat are translating into home runs the new yankee stadium has been one of the hardest ball parks to hit a home run in.
The ball isn’t carrying well at all – to any part of the park.
Here are the two main conclusions:
Here is Nathan’s two main conclusions:
On the way the ball carries:
“Finally, the new Yankee Stadium has a carry about 2% below average. If home runs there were significantly aided by the wind, one might expect an above average carry. The fact that the carry is below average suggests that there is no evidence in the data analyzed that the baseball carries any better than average in the new Yankee Stadium. Indeed, only five ball parks have a lower normalized carry than Yankee Stadium. ”
And on how the initial velocity of the ball off the bat turns into distance:
So, what does such a plot teach us? The clear winners (i.e., the easiest places to hit home runs) are Denver and Boston at just under 99 mph, and the clear losers are Atlanta and Arizona at about 103 mph. The spread between winners and losers is about 4 mph, corresponding to a distance of about 20 ft. Note that Yankee Stadium is in the “winner” category, with only five parks having a smaller mean v0. This result, when combined with the below-average carry in Yankee Stadium, seems to suggest that the large number of home runs there are due to close fences rather than abnormal atmospheric effects.”
The issue is the walls – their distance and height.
the problem is the wall in RF is simply straight and doesnt bow out like it did at the old place. I dont know how they can fix this really though because of the manual scoreboard..
What an interesting article. Thanks Pete and CB.
Wow I am not surprised at all.
Muy interesante
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/bl.....mlb,182976
Why do we need to fix the stadium?
The Sux have played in a launching pad for 100 years and no one says anything…
The best thing to do if this HR thing really bothers you (I seriosuly don’t care at all; what a lot of people don’t realize is that we’re actually about average in overall runs scored) is to raise the fences; you can’t move them back or you’d be eliminating seats amd, in the Steinbrenners’ minds, profit.
Solution, if you consider this a problem: Raise the walls. If you want to, raise them with plexiglass.
Good props for CB.
He is one of the best posters here.
Regulars: Happy Friday.
-dennis
I like the stadium and Cash’s emphasis on pitching means we can maintain a competitive advantage by playing the stadium.
Jerkface, I agree.
I wonder with what has become a pretty nice home field advantage, if the Yankees still intend on making any changes during the off season?
How about a boycott? We won’t change our right field, until Boston changes their left “field”.
How can the fences be too close if they are the same distance away from home plate as they were in the old park? The fences are too low. Raise them. End of story.
Mike – my favorite is when people say we can’t win a championship in such an extreme hitters’ park. Um hi, the past two WS’es called?
At first I was none too pleased about the way balls were a flyin in the new Stadium, but now I think it has become the ultimate home field advantage as our pitchers have learned to pitch to it, our hitters have learned to exploit it, and the only thing opposing pitchers have learned how to do is hang their head in shame as Damon or someone similar jacks yet another one!!
Baseball has never had required stadium design and has survived.
Some stadiums have really tall walls in left field, some have hills in CF and some have a RF that plays short.
I’m tired of reading about it.
It’s a home-field advantage for everybody but Nick Swisher.
Laura-Well down the line the distance is the same but instead of curving outward like in the old park they extend straight out.
It’s kind of hard to explain. Anybody who gets what I’m trying to say have a better way to say it?
We’re winning games and have the best homefield advantages in the league.
Why should we change that just to appease the whiny Yankee haters? Why let them win?
Fenway is usually never in the top 5 in HR’s. Please. Do your homework. It is a double machine, not an HR park.
-dennis
“How can the fences be too close if they are the same distance away from home plate as they were in the old park? The fences are too low. Raise them. End of story.”
That’s the whole thing – they aren’t the same distance.
In the current stadium the wall goes across straight more. In the old stadium the wall had a larger curve to it.
At the exact distance markers the walls may be technically the same distance, but along most points on the wall they aren’t.
So it’s more a question of whether the yankees want to actually stick to the old stadium’s dimensions than anything else.
“francesa doesnt even know pete exists…someone called and referred to something pete wrote and mike said: “pete who”
Pete should be saying, who the **** is Mike Francessa?
But dennis unless I’m very mistaken it’s usually near the top in runs scored per game, right?
Yankee Stadium is almost exactly average in runs scored per game.
“It’s kind of hard to explain. Anybody who gets what I’m trying to say have a better way to say it?”
The length of the arc between two points on a curve is greater than the length of the chord subtending said arc.
The stadium has developed an aura and identity. We’re winning games there at a crazy pace. Teams cannot win clean, easy games against us there. Even games when we trail by 5-6 runs, the tying/winning run always seems to find it way to the plate in the 9th.
There is no reason to change it. The HRs have calmed down and it has turned into a legit homefield for us.
Who cares how many homeruns are hit into the new Stadium. The Yankees have the best record in baseball. They are ahead of Boston by 6.5 games. Should our New Yankee stadium not be considered dis-advantage? As pete mentioned they Yankees are on pace to win 101 games.
“So it’s more a question of whether the yankees want to actually stick to the old stadium’s dimensions than anything else.”
For all we know, they designed them this way on purpose. We’ve all been assuming that it’s been a mistake and that they didn’t know that this was going to happen. It could have been the plan all along.
I still say that the fences should be made taller; not moved.
baseballs don’t like traveling in Cleveland? they can join the club.
I agree with all who say that there’s no reason to change the stadium anyway.
“Fenway is usually never in the top 5 in HR’s. Please. Do your homework. It is a double machine, not an HR park.”
dennis,
Hope you’re well. Are you in maine now?
Your point is a good one – fenway doesn’t produce a disproportionate number of home runs.
But it was surprising to see in this study that by the way the ball travels off the bat Fenway was the second easiest place to hit a home run in.
It’s not only the monster or the pesky pole – the ball travels very efficiently there.
Wait until….
Yes. The idea though, that Fenway is HR park is innacurate.
Is it the park? Pitching? Line up?
I get tired of hearing obout YS. Same for both teams. Play ball.
-dennis
i’ll need to read the full article later..
but i’d be really surprised if the wind currents going towards right field have nothing to do with it.
i’m pretty sure i’ve read something this year about the ball tailing differently on line drive and flies to left.
ask Damon, Pete.
Fenway has 2 of the easiest places to hit a HR.
Over the monster down the line and around the pesky pole down the line. Its not just about the amount of HRs hit. Its the quality.
As Castillo about how the ball travels. LOL!
I don’t think it matters at all; who cares how many HR’s any park gives up as long as a team wins?
It’s interesting though that it’s “easy” to hit a HR in Fenway and yet it’s not done too often there.
also, i’m pretty sure that scoreboard in the wall is the reason it’s flat and not curved like it used to be…
I read this in the morning after Rob Neyer posted a link.
Another thing to keep in mind is that this just covers the first 6 weeks of the season. Hasn’t the HR pace decreased from then?
As my high school physics teacher used to say: “It’s intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.”
I believe the HR pace actually has decreased.
It’s quite possible the first six weeks were just a weird aberration we’ll never see again anyway.
CB.
Yes. Amy and I are on the island until Dec 1st. Amy begged me to be in the island play Sat eve so I have been memorizing my 238 lines. It is much, much more work that I thought. I spoke at ease in front of 300 people in Houston a few weeks ago and I auditioned in front of 7 people for the play a few months ago and had sweat stains from the pits to my knees…I have never done it for so I am glad Amy had me step out of my element.
Hope you are well!
-dennis
I say leave the stadium alone. People have to get over the fact that this is not old Yankee stadium in any way shape or form.
Wait till we visit the Sardine Can
August 14th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
I agree with all who say that there’s no reason to change the stadium anyway.
***
I agree. Is anyone else starting to feel more and more that the stadium is beginning to feel like home?
“Another thing to keep in mind is that this just covers the first 6 weeks of the season. Hasn’t the HR pace decreased from then?”
Yes. Nathan said he was going to do a follow up study looking at more data – I’d guess after the season is complete?
CB-
The good professor seems to be saying that normalized carry at Fenway is very close to average, while the ease of hitting home runs as measured by the mean speed off the bat of home runs hit at Fenway is significantly lower than average.
Since normalized carry seems to be related to atmospheric effects and the mean speed of a home run off the bat is related to both atmospheric effects and fence dimension (again according to the professor), wouldn’t you conclude that the relative ease of hitting home runs at Fenway is due to the fence dimensions rather than atmospheric effects?
How far back do we need to move the fences (I don’t think simply raising them will solve the problem)? How many rows in that particular section would have to be removed? I would think even 3-4 rows would make a difference with out turning it into a cavernous park.
The park’s not even filling up anyway, so I don’t think losing seats is as big a factor as most people think.
Speaking of seating, did you guys hear about Jerry Jones’ newest plan? It sounds great for the Yankees if the joint venture does the vending. I’ve heard that Cowboy stadium will have 6 party decks that can fit about 35,000 people. The standing room only tickets will be $20 each and you can buy them on a per game basis, and there’s no licensing fee involved. Half the tickets were sold 2 days after they went on sale. Sounds like a winner.
To be fair, the analysis doesn’t really point to the walls. It merely eliminates the atmospheric conditions. It could easily be the pitching. There needs to be more analysis done after the season.
This type of analysis is interesting. I wonder if this will make it’s way into player analysis. Instead of saying “Holiday’s numbers are inflated by Coors” we’ll be able to quantify that.
The park’s not filling up won’t cut it as an excuse. A lot of the empty seats actually HAVE been sold, just to people who don’t use them and try to sell them on stubhub. And then they’re not bought.
Raising the fences, even if you do it with plexiglass, is absolutely the best solution if you consider this a problem (I don’t). I think that’s the only thing the Steinbrenners’ would consider.
They need to leave the new stadium alone. It rocks.
I say leave the stadium exactly as it is. As long as it plays the same for both teams, it’s fair and legitimate.
About 85 years ago, there was a stadium built that favored left handed hitters. There was left handed power on the team. Also, the team was built with that in mind from then on. Home run totals ballooned, especially since it was at the end of the dead ball era.
Sound familiar?
I say NO CHANGES to the stadium. Except … please make monument park nicer and take away the first couple rows of seats around the OF so fans can’t interfere with the game.
Thank you.
ANSKY
August 14th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
As my high school physics teacher used to say: “It’s intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.”
***
Did he sound like Ben Stein?
Bob (Salem)
This was just in Starks chat, but which pitcher do you think has the best “stuff”?
Keith Law
(2:21 PM)
Among current big-league starters, probably Burnett – more life on the fastball than Verlander and at least as good of a curveball. Of course, Verlander beats Burnett on all the non-stuff things that count.
“I don’t think it matters at all; who cares how many HR’s any park gives up as long as a team wins?”
Theoretically perhaps you are right, but it seems to me, practically speaking, that a park which is either a significant pitcher’s park or hitter’s park, over time, often misleads the organization that plays there into having a mistaken assessment of the true abilities of its ball club at any particular time, which in turn hurts its chances of being successful.
Just a drive by to tell you about a survey in today’s Projo. (I’m usually a day late and a dollar short so if someone already mentioned this, per usual, I apologize for the repeat.
Here is the survey question: Will the Red Sox win the American League’s wild-card playoff berth?
That alone was worth the price of admission!!! Hardee har har har har har. We’re talking about the wild card.
The three choices were:
1. Yes
2. No, they’ll win the division
3. No, they’ll miss the playoffs.
I, of course, felt it my civic duty to vote. Granted the turnout is relatively light at this point, but here are the results:
1. 35.42%
2. 8.33%
3. 54.17%
Tell Wait and Betsy that if the locals are seeing things this way, maybe they should be a little more skeptical of the Sux than they are at this moment.
“Raising the fences, even if you do it with plexiglass, is absolutely the best solution if you consider this a problem (I don’t). I think that’s the only thing the Steinbrenners’ would consider.”
I don’t know how I’d feel about spending $100+ to sit behind plexiglass (often hazy, dirty or scratched) 350+ feet away from home plate.
Wave Your Hat-The Phils’ played in a hitters’ park; they won a WS.
The Red Sox play in a hitters’ park (maybe not HR, but hitters) They won a WS.
26 Yankee teams played in a prk that favored lefthanded power hitters or hitters like Jeter who tried to hit the ball the other way; they won 26 WS titles.
I don’t think there’s any problem at all, I really don’t.
Hilarious ….
Theo Epstein picking out of the junkpile – again.
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....tra_bases/
“I agree. Is anyone else starting to feel more and more that the stadium is beginning to feel like home?”
Winning has a tendency to do that.
I think I should also mention that RSN is absolutely JONESING at the thought of getting Alex Gonzalez back. I don’t know how close they are but boy do they want him.
They recognize that it is absolutely not a bat (but you know people will immediately whine when he isn’t hitting); but two of the broadcasters on EEI actually said that he is the best defensive shortstop they have ever watched play for the Sux.
Erica – always OPPC
August 14th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
ANSKY
August 14th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
As my high school physics teacher used to say: “It’s intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.”
***
Did he sound like Ben Stein?
———————————
I’m kinda hoping you say he sounded and looked like Bill Nye the Science Guy, but that’s just me
Isn’t he missing the point? The real debate seemed to me to be new YS vs. old YS, not new YS vs the rest of baseball.
No one disputes that the new place is a HR park for left-handed hitters, nor that the old one was as well. The question was whether there was a reason more HRs were being hit at the new joint than at the old joint.
Later alligators.
Ramey!!!
How’d it go?
Laura – I like the new and improved Alex! He’s a keeper.
August 14th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
“I agree. Is anyone else starting to feel more and more that the stadium is beginning to feel like home?”
Winning has a tendency to do that.
***
I like it
trisha, you seem to think of me as pessimist.
I am not. Totally not. I am actualy VERY optimistic about the Yankees. I have been at vevery point of the season from ST onward. I just don’t think the Red Sox are that bad. I do think they’re a wild card team.
I’ll say this though: If they lose this series, it’s all over.
Oh, and price the premium seats more like the premium seats at all the other major league other stadiums. You could increase the cost along the lines of how NYC’s cost of living compares to the rest of the country. But a four digit price tag for a single ticket to one baseball game? Get real.
Erica – Nope … no Ben Stein sound alike. But it would have been funny if he was. Still, he did make the class interesting.
Wait till etc.-
I’m not saying you can’t win in a pitcher’s park or a hitter’s park, just wondering if it reduces your chances of being successful over time.
I note that the Red Sox prior to 2004 had a long history of not making the WS, same with the Cubs. The Phils haven’t been in their current park long enough to draw any conclusion.
Looks like it’s done. Sorry again if this is old news.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....p;c_id=mlb
I guess this would be a bigger deal to me if it gave the Yankees an unfair advantage. Both teams have the opportunity to hit the ball to RF. Noted Yankee hater Cito Gaston even said that his team should have been hitting balls that way. It’s not like the Yankees get the short porch and then a massive wall is raised in right once the other team starts batting. It’s a level playing field.
Wave Your Hat-I will disagree though. The Yankees were famous for their short Right Field Porrch, as were the Polo Grounds; those 2 ballparks held of the most sucessful teams in MLB history.
“wouldn’t you conclude that the relative ease of hitting home runs at Fenway is due to the fence dimensions rather than atmospheric effects?”
Wave,
That’s right. In my prior post I was taking it as a given that short dimensions would make it “easier.”
The normalized carry for Fenway was over 1 so the ball does travel relatively well there. So it is due to both factors. That’s what I was trying to get at (though unsuccessfully).
The big issue with normalized carry was Denver – just completely off the charts. Not even close to any other playing enironment.
It was interesting to see fenway clustered with Denver, in turn. Balls didn’t need to be hit very hard to turn into home runs and I guess it’s for different reasons. The carry at fenway is relatively high, but no where near Denver. So it must be the impact of the fences making up most of the difference.
This does beg the question however regarding why more home runs aren’t empirically hit in Fenway if it is relatively “easy” to hit a home run there?
It would have to be related to the pitching.
Paul (NYC)
New drinking game. Everytime KLaw makes a sarcastic comment, drink. I dare you to get through a chat.
Keith Law (2:35 PM)
Red Sox fans would have the hardest time. They start every game drunk.
How many SS is BOS planning on going through this year?
OMG. I’m glad that Vick signed with a team so the media can move on. Jeffrey Lurie was much too graphic in the presser, and shame on him smearing inner cities like he did. Anyway, I hope a lot of the fake outrage will disappear, although it may take time. Just last week Vick was doing an appearance for PETA, and today they slap him with a horrible statement press release.
Erica-
Let’s just say I dislike the New York Islanders more now than I did yesterday. They liked me, but didn’t offer me the position in their front office, they instead offered me a position (albeit a really really really terrible one and i hope somebody from the Isles is reading this and knows my bitterness) with their minor league affiliate in Bridgeport, which i’m gonna debate over the weekend to accept or not.
The Yankees have the best record in baseball…if the new stadium has played even the slightest role in that (which I’m not convinced it has) then why change anything? If it ain’t broke…
I can’t read the study at work and I won’t bother when I go home since I probably won’t understand it anyway. I say leave the park as is. The Yankees are hitting HRs there because they have very good power hitters – and the vast majority of the HRs they hit would have been out of the old stadium. The reason why mediots keep harping on th # of HRs at new YS is because they need to find something to kill the Yankees for. Now, it’s that they Yankees made a horrible stadium, Coors Field East. The mediots are sheep with tunnel vision – they’ve already determined that the stadium is an embarrassment and they aren’t going to back off. So, I say who cares what they say? Our pitchers are doing just fine………
The stadium felt like home to me a long time ago………
On that note m, the Eagles are now officially the most overrated team in baseball.
If they push the fence back from 314 to 318 right field and raise the fence by a foot or two, that will eliminate the cheap homeruns to rightfield. And push the leftfield fence back a couple of feet. Then it would play like the old stadium. Rightfield will play a little short and leftfield would be death valley.
Oh my God, did I write the Eagles are the most overrated team in baseball? FOOTBALL. Football. I know it’s football.
You know what I meant.
Wait,
Haha. Why does it bother you (I saw your post in the last thread). If they’re overrated that’s good for your team, no?
I don’t care about the Eagles anyway, not in my division.
If they’re overrated that is very good for my team m.
But the media just loooves the Eagles, and I don’t get it. They’re not that good.
River ave blues did a study on this early this year… the scoreboards in the fence cause a difference in dimentions…I have linked to it
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ons-12369/
Ramey-
Awwww, Bridgeport may not be glamorous. But its definitely something to consider. A job is a job. Especially in this economy. Plus, you will no doubt wow them so much that you will move quickly up the ladder and get to the front office job!
Wait,
Would you rather them talk about Eli and that conract? I don’t think you want to hear what they really think about that. Best to let sleeping dogs lay.
I dont believe in this thing called “science” so I can really trust this professor.
I am just going to base the homerun increase on the TRUE original theory that god simply shones his love on the Yankees and helps them by blowing the wind causing the balls to carry out of the stadium.
Simple as that.
“If they push the fence back from 314 to 318 right field and raise the fence by a foot or two, that will eliminate the cheap homeruns to rightfield. And push the leftfield fence back a couple of feet. Then it would play like the old stadium. Rightfield will play a little short and leftfield would be death valley.”
Explain to me why it needs to be changed or play like the old stadium? We’re leading the division and have the best record in baseball…some one please explain to me why it needs to change? Because some one decided this was an issue and the media ran with it? Say it out loud to yourselves “The Yankees have the BEST RECORD IN ALL OF BASEBALL.” Nothing needs to change…
I am very glad they signed Elit to that contract. He has done an excellent job with NY (they’ve made the playoffs the past four years, hes won a SB, and he made the Pro Bowl) and I wanthim as a Giant for his career.
But you have a point. The media may not see it my way.
Hokiehill does have a point.
Besides, if they talk on and on about the stadium, then we don’t have to hear about payroll.
Dr. Cox-
Where do you get this stuff from?? Geez, obviously it’s the GHOSTS from across the street taking their rightful places and haunting the balls out of the stadium
Erica-
You are certainly right and all I wanted was my foot in the door to a sports organization, which I now have. They just made the mistake of making me really want the amazing job, so now anything less than that makes me disappointed and want to just go there wearing new york rangers apparel.
I always thought the Steinbrenners hired fairies to catch the balls in midflight and carry them out.
So you mean it’s all lies!?!?!
Hokiehill-
You raise one other excellent point. If the Yanks wanted a ballpark exactly like the old one- they wouldn’t have moved. Or they would have built an exact replica with fancy steakhouses and more potties
thanks for that link, uppercase M
Ramey – Traded his Girlfriend to the Pirates for a PTBNL
August 14th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Erica-
You are certainly right and all I wanted was my foot in the door to a sports organization, which I now have. They just made the mistake of making me really want the amazing job, so now anything less than that makes me disappointed and want to just go there wearing new york rangers apparel.
****
There is no need for George Costanza style drastic measures. Take the job! At the very least, get a few months of experience to stick on your resume
..And naturally when the Steinbrenners hired fairies the dwarves were offended that they weren’t being asked to help with the Stadium. They thought it must have been discrimination since Pedroia is a Red Sock.
But of course the Steinbrenners denied the whole thing.
“Explain to me why it needs to be changed or play like the old stadium? We’re leading the division and have the best record in baseball…some one please explain to me why it needs to change?”
They don’t “need” to do anything.
But being in first place this year isn’t any reason to not do something.
The yankees have a disproportionate number of LH power hitters this year.
That might not always be the case. Quite honestly – it might not be the case at all next year.
So this huge advantage they have this year might dissappear.
Matsui is leaving. Say they sign Holliday or Bay – both are RH hitters.
Over the next 5-7 years the team might wind up getting achored by Montero and Jackson in addition to Alex, Jeter, and Tex and possibly Cano.
Montero and Jackson are both RH hitters. Austin Romine is a RH hitter.
So it’s a strategic question long term over how much of an advantage do you want to give left handed hitters long term.
The old stadium gave them a significant edge. The current stadium gives them a bigger edge.
How disproportionate do they want this to be?
You’re not always going to have a RH hitting SS with a perfect inside out swing to that short right field.
“There is no need for George Costanza style drastic measures. Take the job! At the very least, get a few months of experience to stick on your resume”
In my defense, as a teenager, I was a short, stocky, slow-witted, balding man and my mom always called me costanza. I feel i could really make it work for me. Granted I’d have to gain a little weight now, but i’ve certainly got the slow-witted down, I just spend enough time reading posts by trolls on lohud and I’m dumbed down
Eh, I don’t think it’s any issue at all. The Polo Grounds back in the early 1900’s had a REALLY short RF porch. The NY Giants were one of the more sucessful teams in MLB history.
I heard Van Delay industruties has merged with Play Now and they are hiring importer/exporters.
Ari Collins (Boston, MA)
So, apparently the BoSox just got Alex Gonzalez. Again. Does he play over Nick Green and Chris Woodward? Should he?
Keith Law (2:52 PM)
Yes, and I’m leaning towards no.
“I get tired of hearing obout YS. Same for both teams. Play ball.”
dennis -
you seem a little crabby.
lobster bite your toe ?
The Yanks will line up more lefty hitters for the stadium going forward.
“I heard Van Delay industruties has merged with Play Now and they are hiring importer/exporters.”
Do I want to focus solely on the importing?
Hey Pete,
Sorry for bringing this up from 2 threads ago…but you crank out new threads as often as Prince used to crank out new songs back in the day – which was like one every 3 minutes..
anyway regarding Ichiro….would you want him on the yankees next year if lets say both damon and matsui were no longer here? Lets go further and say to get him (and his $17 million contract for the next 3 or 4 years)the yankees would need to give up a decent starter in the minors and lets say damaso marte so they could get a bit of salary relief (albeit not much) ..
also, in your opinion, how much of a difference is he when compared to swisher in rightfield (if any)…
lastly if your only choices for next year are retain damon for 2 years (at 8 million dollars) and add ajax in the OF – or get ichiro and keep matsui for one more year (at 5 million dollars) which one would you do?
On ESPN’s “Park Factors” stats page, YS3 is ranked #1. No surprise there.
However, the 4th place Stadium really surprised me: Citi Field..
Oh, and Dennis was right about Fenway. It’s a double’s park.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/p.....t/HRFactor
wait-
You can’t really draw conclusions based on an individual team. Were the Giants or Yanks succesful because of, or in spite of, their stadium’s peculiarities? Maybe they were successful because of the relative advantage of their market and it had nothing to do with their stadiums.
Without more info, it’s impossible to say.
However, I do think a pronounced hitter’s park or pitcher’s park has had a tendency to mislead the organization that played there into thinking they had better hitting and worse pitching, or better pitching and worse hitting, than they actually did. And that can’t be good all else being equal.
“They don’t “need” to do anything.
But being in first place this year isn’t any reason to not do something.”
What’s any reason TO do something then?
Because you might have right handed hitters coming through the farm system? I doubt that will be the motivation for making changes if there are any. The RF has always been shorter at Yankee Stadium anyway.
If this is the case, theoretically, it should be easy to determine which HR would not have been HR if the walls were both a little higher and a little farther back.
The disparity in # of HR hit this season at NYS is much higher than you’d expect if it were simply the height and distance of the walls.
conclusion: the Yanks would still be hitting a boatload of HR
RandyI.
Not crabby at all. It is Friday! My point is that RF in YS is the same for both teams.. It gets too much chatter! I didn’t see the Sox hitting too many HR’s to right last weekend! It is was it is. Play ball.
Hope all is well in the Cape and that you have a busy weekend of folks spending money.
Cheers. -dennis
maybe they should just move home plate like a foot from the back stop. problem solved.
when does the line up contest start?
You give the organization too little credit I think.
First of all you can’t really argue with sucess,and the fact remains that two of the most sucessful teams in MLB history had similar configurations to our ballpark now.
also there’s a simple way to figure out if your offense is being affected by the park. Fans do iit. I gurantee the Yankees do it. Look at the home road splits. If the difference between the two gets too big, then you realize that the park is making your offense seem better than it is. It’s not as difficult to figure out as you seem to imply.
I have a dumb question? Suppose the fences are indeed too close…is there anything wrong with keeping them where they are?
There seems to be a backlash against the dimensions of the new stadium…why? The old Yankee Stadium (the original one) was over 440 feet to leftcenter and 460 feet to deadcenter, and the baseball world learned to live with it for decades. Why can’t they live with this new stadium?
As I see it both teams play in the same ballpark. If the dimensions are shallow or deep neither team is disadvantaged by it. There have been pitchers parks and hitters parks for years and years…why all of a sudden does everyone care about this park?
With all of the poverty in the world and the joblessness in America you’d think people would worry about that stuff…but the only thing that some people care about is the dimesions of the New Yankee Stadium. I guess they figure that’ll feed the masses.
“You’re not always going to have a RH hitting SS with a perfect inside out swing to that short right field.”
he probably perfected it because of the short right filed though.
i wouldn’t mind if they make the curve and fence distance exactly the same as it used to be, but i don’t mind it being like it is because it gets in other teams heads more than it does in yankee heads.
also right handed hitters have always been penalized by yankee stadium , so if being easier in one place( left field) is bad, why isn’t being harder in another place(right field) not bad too.
because the yankees are winning i think it’s no big deal, but i think it wouldn’t hurt to move in the direction of putting the fences where they used to be.
The one problem with this study is that they don’t have data from the old stadium as a comparison.
“The Yanks will line up more lefty hitters for the stadium going forward.”
As long as Girardi is the manager and has his way there will be a proportionate # of lefties to righties…dude loves playing the pitcher/hitter matchups that way.
Evan Roberts is really raking Michael Vick over the coals and I say good for him. Vick didn’t make a mistake or two – he made choices to murder those animals. Vick was in Chicago a couple of days ago and rumors were that he was there to sign with the Bears. Boy, am I glad those rumors were unfounded….I could never root for him.
jpb1973-I agree 100% with everything you said.
Wait etc.-
It’s not difficult statistically, but we live in a world of perceptions and not statistics. I suspect that has a lot more impact than you give it credit for.
Jeter ss
Damon LF
Teix 1b
Arod 3b
Matsui DH
PO C
Cano 2b
Swisher Rf
Melky CF
Why do we need to fix the stadium?
The Sux have played in a launching pad for 100 years and no one says anything…
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Good point!!! I hope that the Yankees keep the dimensions as is just to be contrarian. I’d have a good laugh if they decided make the dimesnions even shorter…just to be stubborn.
“With all of the poverty in the world and the joblessness in America you’d think people would worry about that stuff…but the only thing that some people care about is the dimesions of the New Yankee Stadium. I guess they figure that’ll feed the masses.”
Now that you mention it, I’m surprised we can even think about baseball at all. I mean, even baseball is pretty insignificant next to world poverty and stuff.
I wouldn’t have had a problem if the Giants had signed Vick as backup.
He’s not a great guy. So what? There are drunk drivers who killed people in the NFL. Nobody cares. Ty Cobb back in the day was one of the worst people short of mass murdering dictators ever to walk the planet. Nobody cares.
Why? Theis isn’t a goodwill house, it’s a football team. If Vick could help them win that’s why I watch him, not see him go to church and perform pennance for killing animals.
And I am the proud owner of a rescue dog so nobody accuse me of anything please.
i was just teasing you dennis.
business is good down on the cape, but i am without friends .
i really should not have swept back and forth with a push broom after the sweep in front of the liquor store where everyone ( mostly red sox fans)gathers at the end of the day to talk about the events of the day.
i never mentioned baseball. i just thought the sidewalk needed sweeping.
some people have no sense of humor
I will say this after seeing other comments.jpb you did go a little oberboard with the poverty and homlessness part.
However I agree 100% with this part:
“I have a dumb question? Suppose the fences are indeed too close…is there anything wrong with keeping them where they are?
There seems to be a backlash against the dimensions of the new stadium…why? The old Yankee Stadium (the original one) was over 440 feet to leftcenter and 460 feet to deadcenter, and the baseball world learned to live with it for decades. Why can’t they live with this new stadium?
As I see it both teams play in the same ballpark. If the dimensions are shallow or deep neither team is disadvantaged by it. There have been pitchers parks and hitters parks for years and years…why all of a sudden does everyone care about this park?”
New thread.
whether or not they adjust the right field wall next season, I think it’s imperative that they find a way to keep fans in the first row from being able to interfere w/play. eventually, it’s bound to bite them in the tush.
jpb1973, it wasn’t a stupid question and you’re right on. If we were losing and some one on the team was playing terrible you would hear about that instead of the stadium…this is just another thing to continue to obsess and complain over.
Some Yankee fans have really disliked the new stadium because of the “different dimensions” and IMO it’s mainly because they get tired of announcers/people in the media trashing the Yankees for their hitter friendly ball park. I think this is funny since the majority of us have already come to the conclusion that a lot of people in the media (announcers in particular) are a bunch of blow hard sheep, yet the affect our opinions anyway.
I had only been to the old park once and I’ve recently been to the new one for my first time. IMO the RF fence being 5 feet shorter is just about the only thing to complain about (for some) which is a good thing IMO, especially since it’s not worth complaining about.
I love that people just think the dimensions help the Yankees. They forget that the pitchers have to pitch there 81 games and they hate it. Have you not noticed how they had to turn the bullpen over completely? That park wore people out.
Dustin Pedroia hit the first opposite field home run of his life there. You’d be OK if that cost you a game? If the Yankees lose a playoff game because some .230 hitting shortstop dumps a pop up into the first row in right field, you all will lose your minds.
They need to make it reasonable, that’s all. The Yankees will still hit plenty of homers. They just need to take away the cheapies and make the dimensions truly what they were across the street. That’s all.
new yankee stadium and old yankee stadium.
the team has to always grow, find, import, draft, sign and collect a couple of left hand hitting sluggers and left handed pitchers. the more things change the more they remain the same.
“also right handed hitters have always been penalized by yankee stadium , so if being easier in one place( left field) is bad, why isn’t being harder in another place(right field) not bad too.”
I agree. This isn’t an either or question.
It literally gets down to this – how much?
How much of a disproportionate advantage do you want to give LH hitters.
That’s it.
LH hitters had an advantage in the old stadium. That was clear. They have a diproportionate advantage in the new stadium but it appears to be even larger.
So it’s a question of how big you want that disadvantage.
And I have a feeling that if the team were to happen to let Matsui go, Damon gets a 3 year deal somewhere else and the team signs Holliday and DH’s montero next year lots and lots of yankee fans aren’t going to be real happy with the way the stadium plays.
And on jeter – I’m sure that short porch influenced his swing.
But I’m also pretty certain that that inside out swing feels right to him – his entire hitting strategy is built on it.
And I’m also pretty sure most players – even very talented ones – don’t have Jeter’s bat control so they wouldn’t necessarily be able to leverage the stadium as well as Jeter has.
There’s a reason why Jeter has so many HR as a RH hitter in the new stadium but Mark Teixeira has so few as a RH hitter. They just have very different swings.
And on a side note – part of why people are now so happy with the way the stadium is playing that they are taking for granted is Alex Rodriguez’s historically great talent as a RH hitter.
The yankees offense happens to be anchored at the current time by a RH hitter for whom park dimensions are a secondary concern because when he’s at his best he’s hitting home runs to the deepest part of the playing field and that makes dimensions largely irrelevant.
That’s not a real reproducible skill set. Ask David Wright about that.
It’s an interesting debate. But to me it’s a question of how much advantage is the “right” amount.
This is such a special team… I don’t even want to think about next year and the roster turnover (Damon, Matsui, finding an 8th inning guy, 1-2 starters etc.) because it is too depressing
Let’s win this year first, then worry about this winter.
41-18 at Home. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
i say, move the fence back 5-10 ft, make them 2 feet higher, and we’ll still club a gazillion more hrs than the opponents.
I’m pretty sure that Fenway is 310 and 302 down the lines and no one is calling for the fences to be moved back or calling Fenway a “launchpad” and saying that it’s an “unfair advantage”.