Game 125: Rangers at Yankees, Part II
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Aug 25, 2009 
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It’s the seventh inning and the Yankees are down. Another comeback seems unlikely but we’ve seen it before.
UPDATE, 10:09 p.m.: Neftali Feliz is pretty ridiculous. 15.2 innings, 4 hits, 21 strikeouts.
UPDATE, 10:12 p.m.: Jeter is 38 of 97 (.392) this month.
UPDATE, 10:17 p.m.: Red Sox finished off the White Sox 6-3. A Yankee loss would leave them with a six-game lead. That would be the closest Boston has been since Aug. 12.
UPDATE, 10:50 p.m: All of a sudden this is getting interesting. Bases loaded and nobody out for Matsui. Yankees down 10-5.
UPDATE, 10:55 p.m.: Matsui single, Posada single. Now it’s 10-7 and a dinger wins it. Can Cano actually get a hit with men on base?
UPDATE, 10:56 p.m.: Why yes he can. Two-run single to left. 10-9 with two on and nobody out. Unreal.
Listening to John Sterling,who wondered if Swisher would bunt. Swisher can’t bunt. You gotta be kidding me. Swing the bat.
UPDATE, 10:58 p.m.: Swisher bunted and popped out. Unreal. Swing the bat. That is a momentum-killer.
I bet that costs them. Swisher is not a bunter. And you’re bunting to get to a slumping Melky? Why?
UPDATE, 11:01 p.m.: Yep, that bunt killed the momentum deader than Francisco Franco. Outs are too valuable to give away. Melky lines into a double play and the game is over.
I’ve heard Swisher is a decent power hitter and is pretty adept at getting on base. Too bad he didn’t have a chance to show that.
Girardi’s love of the bunt could hurt this team in the postseason. The Yankees are really, really good at getting on base. Let your guys do what they do best.
UPDATE, 11:06 p.m.: Some are suggesting that Swisher bunted on his own, perhaps. No matter as far as I’m concerned. The manager should tell the player not to bunt before he goes to the plate.
Knowing Swisher, I doubt he walks to the plate looking to bunt on his own. Guy has seven bunts in his life.
REPOST
Could it be said that Victor Martinez quit on his Indians team?
Considering he batted like .225 and that’s pushing it in his last 2 and a half months with them.
I mean, Manny did quit on the Red Sox batting .330 in his final month with them
Nick in SF in Larkspur
August 25th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
Erica, I was thinking Mexican before, so why not. Not sure about the chicken burrito part. Chicken enchiladas, maybe… carne asada burrito, maybe… maybe carnitas would be a good compromise.
****
I wouldn’t be opposed to vicariously eating chicken quesidillas
until further notice, they are still the Comeback Kids!
Feliz, Wilson, Francisco… no problem
I know they are major league hitters and all, but…how is it possible to be early on a 97+ mph fastball?
Unless Matsui was guessing big time there, I don’t get it.
Seems like Girardi waved the white flag when he brought in GoDan to help the Rangers to a win.
Chamberlain used to be a superstar type, now he is looking like a flop. Very disappointing seeing him like this again. He is more streaky than Swisher.
I am getting tired of seeing so many runs scored when they have two outs also. Very depressing to see the pitching wilt when the bats are good enough to get wins.
I have faith as long as Yankee pitching doesn’t give up any more runs.
We still have 6 outs to come back.
“I know they are major league hitters and all, but…how is it possible to be early on a 97+ mph fastball?”
well you see when someone is mixing 101 to 97 to 82 it ain’t that easy.
I wonder if Joba’s dad is coming to these games. Feliz looks like the Joba of Texas.
Brad lidge blows another one
Pitchers seem to find a few extra MPH for Alex. His reputation helps even when his bat sometimes doesn’t.
i think its the 2 out runs, but this game has been v annoying
Victor did know he was going to be traded, so he only pushed the issue by failing.
DOnt be fooled by his crocodile tears when he left
What has happened the last few games. Tons of two out hits and runs. That is so frustrating.
GF,
Joba isn’t going to get a start in the ALDS.
The way the schedule is set up, they only need 3 starters.
If they are fortunate enough to get to the ALCS, he probably gets a start.
It will be easier to get him out of the game early, like they should have done tonight, in the post-season.
You can’t trust this kid in the post-season. Too stubborn, too much BS.
Its important that CC, AJ and Andy stay healthy for 6 weeks.
If they need a lot out of Joba in the post-season, that’s not going to end well for the Yankees.
Too much hype, not enough substance. Perhaps the substance comes at some point next year. Its not there now.
:/
ARod looks so terrible on D
wow is this a throw away game or what.
I don’t believe that is the real SJ, or if it is someone inhabited his body. I seem to remember him telling people to get off Joba earlier in the season because Joba was young and would learn.
Anyway, I have an aversion to real long posts so I try not to write them too often.
So you just have to believe me. It’s not about stubbornness.
And don’t ever be tricked into mistaking quantity for quality! (i.e., length of post.)
How many excuses do we need from Joba? Is he going to say tonight that he “had good stuff,” because whether he did or not, he had no guts and didn’t challenge guys.
He could have had good stuff, but it didn’t matter because he’s a moron who refuses to compete or adjust within a game. A major league hitter can hit a flat slider after the 5th time in a row of seeing it, very easily in fact.
Joba needs to step up with guys injured, and he makes excuses and beats himself on a consistent basis. What excuse will it be tonight?
So what changed since the all-star break?
Oh, that’s right. The trade deadline passed.
After tonights game, a 6 game lead over the Red Sox, best record in the majors, I’ll take that.
However, the pitching problems for the Yankees are a concern no matter how you spin it.
“Victor did know he was going to be traded, so he only pushed the issue by failing.”
Your kind of mental illness get you the good parking spaces?
Feliz throwin 97-100, Papelbon throwin 97 as he closes out game to pull within 6 and Wagner from the left side throwin 96.
Not comfortable at all
I just realized I need to apologize to everybody. You see, it’s my fault the Yankees are losing.
Let me explain. On Friday, while watching the game, I was wearing my Dr. Pepper shirt. Yankees won. Saturday, I put on one of my Yankee t-shirts. We know what happened. On Sunday, I was on the point of putting on a Yankee t-shirt again, when I remembered Saturday. I put on the Dr. Pepper shirt again. Noticing a pattern here? Today, I was again wearing a Yankee t-shirt. When I put it on, I mentioned to my wife that I might be cursing the Yankees. But when I turned on the game and they were up 4-0, I forgot about it. During Kinsler’s AB, I remembered. I went and changed.
But is it too late?
Great job by elite closer Brad Lidge. Blown save and loss and now sporting a robust 7.33 ERA.
Well I don’t get My9 postgames so I think I will switch to Sterling and Waldman not so that I can at least hear what
Girardi has to say.
SJ,
Joba can turn things around. Sometimes he needs to get knocked down a few times first.
But you know that I’ve felt all season that you go a little overboard on these kids.
No, he hasn’t been good lately. But that doesn’t mean he can’t turn it around.
If they do get past the ALDS, you can bet that Joba is going to start Game 4.
“But is it too late?”
Give it a try! Can’t hurt. But if it is too late, take heart in the thought that the Sux didn’t gain anything on the Rangers.
Silver lining in every cloud.
Oh Matt shut up and come back in another 5 days like you always do.
Sissy.
A new standard of quitting on one’s team has been set by Manny Ramirez.
Batting .330+ and murdering the opposing pitchers
“Too much hype, not enough substance. Perhaps the substance comes at some point next year. Its not there now.”
Unfortunately, the Yankees organization and YES have way too much marketing capital invested in this guy. They are stuck betting on a horse that started out fast and is proving to be disappointing.
As someone involved in an AL East scouting operation mentioned during ST, he was happy the Yankees seem to be all in on Chamberlain. He is inconsistent and can be counted on to tax the BP on a regular basis.
Zack Grienke 15ks
“But you know that I’ve felt all season that you go a little overboard on these kids.”
Yeah SJ. Stop being a Simon Legree!
Sure its stubborness.
How else do you explain him continuing to make the same mistakes over and over.
Its not the layoff.
When you have a 4 run lead, you throw fastballs and challenge hitters. He didn’t. He kept shaking off Posada to throw sliders and the walks and bad counts piled up.
Do that against a good team, you get beat. Do that in the playoffs, you get booed off the mound.
He did the same thing in his last start in Seattle when he was on regular rest.
Too many excuses for this kid and his stubborness.
At some point, you have to start seeing improvement. We aren’t seeing that.
So, the train leaves the yard for the post-season with him in the caboose.
I just hope AJ, CC and Andy stay healthy.
I LOVE this teams chances in the post-season with those 3 guys heading the rotation.
A stubborn first year starter, prone to meltdowns? No thank you. Not in the post-season.
The act becomes less “cute” when the game really matter in October.
Yankee pitching retired 3 straight batters after I put on the Dr. Pepper shirt. No 2 out drama this time.
So far so good.
Tonight’s board sounds a lot like it did after Burnett’s performance on Saturday.
People were nuts then, too.
The Yanks and Joba will survive this just fine.
BD, I really think Phil’s total lack of command early last year had to do with the rib injury – I have always believed that he was feeling the effects of the injury before he was actually diagnosed.
It’s the same misinformation purported by the media about Manny quitting with the Red Sox as the rest of you were discussing earlier today, how Dustin PEDroia’s stats are mainly a product of Fenway Park
Perhaps, ESPN meant that Manny quit on the Red Sox because he stopped taking the juice!
Let me get this straight… Joba’s problems are because he’s not listening? So there isn’t someone telling him to miss by more than a foot with his fastball?
It seems to me that his missing spots and struggling with his control. If it were as easy as listening to your pitching coach to fix that, then no young starter would ever struggle.
3 runs this inning, 2 more next inning.
By this point in the season I would expect to see a few struggles from a young pitcher, but Joba, just when it looks like he is turning a corner, he falls flat.
He goes from being dominating to being a joke on the mound. With his talent it shouldn’t be that we he goes into stinker mode for multiple games in a row.
I don’t see him going into the pen pitching like this. That would be like sending someone like GoDan out there to do mop up duty.
Joba is un-coachable right now. He lives in denial, thinking that every mistake he makes is someone else’s fault other than his own and continuing to make the same mistakes on a consistent basis. Until he grows up in his own head, he won’t make the leap.
He’s regressing, not progressing. That’s what’s more troubling.
Going through Joba’s game logs….this 4 game stretch is about the worst he has been. For both years.
He’s at 130 innings now. I think he’s just gassed. Unfortunately he’s had 8 days and is still looking pretty bad.
He’s getting the ball again on Sunday most likely against Freddy Garcia. Let’s hope it’s a nice cool day because I can see Joba melting in the midday sun.
Marte is our Wagner.
Rob B, Dr. Pepper is big in Texas, I don’t think the shirt matters tonight.
Here are the current standings for “Guess the Line Up”. After 23 rounds, there have been 65 different winners. Here are the participants with 2 wins or more:
Miggs – 7 wins – 7/23, 8/6, 8/11, 8/13, 8/18, 8/21, 8/25
Ramey – 6 Wins – 7/22, 7/21, 8/6, 8/7, 8/11, 8/21
Andrew – 5 wins – 7/27, 8/6, 8/11, 8/21, 8/25
NYY626 – 4 wins – 8/4, 8/6, 8/7, 8/25
RayVT – 4 wins – 8/5, 8/7, 8/21, 8/25
Upstate Kate – 4 wins – 8/6, 8/7, 8/21, 8/25
WTTALDS- 4 Wins – 7/24, 8/6, 8/11, 8/25
Yanksfan – 4 Wins – 7/28, 7/29, 8/6, 8/21
CM – 3 wins – 8/5, 8/6, 8/7
Henner – 3 wins – 7/27, 8/7, 8/25
Hokiehill – 3 wins – 7/22, 8/21, 8/25
Patrick (the Prospect Hugger) – 3 Wins – 7/27,7/17, 8/7
SA – 3 wins – 8/6, 8/7, 8/25
YankeeRay – 3 Wins – 8/5, 8/6, 8/7
Andrew33 – 2 wins – 8/11, 8/21
Benfica356 – 2 wins – 8/7, 8/25
BlackAccord – 2 wins – 8/21, 8/25
Bronx Jeers – 2 wins – 8/6, 8/25
Dan the Man – 2 wins – 8/6, 8/7
Ed H – 2 wins – 8/11, 8/21
Eights – 2 wins – 7/27, 8/6
Evan D – 2 wins – 8/6, 8/11
Fran – 2 wins – 8/7, 8/17
IDCWYT – 2 wins – 7/28, 8/6
Jon Locke – 2 wins – 8/5, 8/6
Kenny – 2 wins – 8/21, 8/25
NYYROC – 2 wins – 8/21, 8/25
Nick – 2 wins – 8/6, 8/21
NoHype – 2 wins – 7/28, 8/21
RalphieD – 2 wins – 8/7, 8/25
Rob in VT. – 2 wins – 8/13, 8/21
The Fair Pole -2 wins – 8/6, 8/17
UnKnown – 2 wins – 8/17, 8/21
William Buckner – 2 wins – 8/6, 8/11
Just got home, looks like I shouldnt be bummed for missing the first 7 innings of this game.
I am also curious as to where Michael Kay is? He has had more time off than I can remember him ever having. Maybe the Yankees were sick of hearing his voice?
SJ,
You were saying similar stuff about Pettitte at the ALB. You weren’t giving him much of a chance to turn things around.
No, Joba is not Pettitte. He has a ton of experience that Joba doesn’t have.
But you are often premature to throw dirt on someone’s grave.
Greinke with 15K’s tonight
clear cut Cy Young if he can get some wins under his belt
Cano is awful.
GF,
The last 10 starts, he’s had 4 good starts. None in his last 3 and the bad habits are back.
Its too late to baby him at this point. If they want to monitor his innings, fine by me.
Just make sure CC, AJ and Andy get rest, yes even over Joba, because they are the three guys you need in the post-season.
Joba is what he is at this point. Its not going to change. It would have changed already if change was in the air with him.
He’s not starting Game 4 of the ALDS. Look at the schedule.
CC can start Game 4 on full rest.
No way Joba starts Game 4 when a fully rested CC will be available.
come on Robbie
Nick in SF in Larkspur August 25th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
Rob B, Dr. Pepper is big in Texas, I don’t think the shirt matters tonight.
______________
That’s not what I wanted to hear.
way to not hustle, Robinson.
I am concerned now about the pen – Gaudin just did not do the job tonight. A lot of the arms in our pen are extremely inconsistent, whether it’s Coke, Robertson, Aceves.
AJ will be fine, he’s just going through a bit of a rough patch (and even that, he still threw good games against Oakland and Boston). Andy has been very good and CC lately has been great. That’s 3 starters………every 5th day we have to throw out Joba and Mitre. It’s nice to have a 6 game lead, but it’s not insurmountable. The Yankees offense can only do so much. They didn’t do much after the first tonight, but this game is all on Joba and Gaudin…….Still, assuming the Yankees maintain their lead, we’ve got some issues to deal with – no question.
Pettitte gets bombed on Friday, but our bats come throug.
Burnett gets bombed on Saturday.
Sabathia comes through on Sunday.
Chamberlain gets bombed tonight.
If, and I do mean IF, the Yankees can’t get these guys straightened out in a reasonable amount of time, forget the ALDS, they won’t even make the postseason. And you can clip and save this for future a future post.
You can’t expect Sabathia, Hughes, and Mariano to pull the whole load for the rest of September. They’re good, but not that good.
Ranger pop ups have been clearing fences tonight.
The only Yankee pop up that did that was Cano’s.
looks like it’s going to be a 6 game lead
“He lives in denial, thinking that every mistake he makes is someone else’s fault other than his own…”
What? Are you posting from the Harlan Psychiatric Institute in Vienna?
Here’s MY diagnosis, Matt: you’re nuts.
Robbie is averse to sprinting it seems
I will be happy to say I was wrong if he turns it around.
Problem is, his issues are the same issues he’s had all year.
If he hasn’t changed by now, its doubtful the light is going to go off.
Just have to work around the problem that is Joba and go forward.
Nothing else they can do.
The White Sox did their best to lay down and die versus the Sox tonight.
It looked as if they didnt care about the Central with these last 2 day’s performance.
Oh well, I guess I cant fault them. They did prevent the Sox from roiding to 2 straight World Series.
Konerko got hit last night, and then thrown near again last night. What happened to drilling people even if there was no intent.
I guess Schnozzie is saving his drilljobs for the Yanks.
Here are the current standings for “Guess the Line Up”. After 23 rounds, there have been 65 different winners. Here are the participants with 2 wins or more:
————————————————————-
Wow, I went 3 weeks between wins.
Am I the Joba of GTLU?
SJ,
If they get to the ALCS, Joba will pitch a Game 4 unless they are down in the series.
We’ll see.
I’ve been one of the few people who frequent this place who doesn’t lose his mind after an ugly loss.
I had faith in Hughes back in May and I have faith in Joba at the ASB and now.
This is an excellent read….very accurate.
===============================
Matt
August 25th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Did you ever see Hughes go out there and just completely give it away like Joba does? Hughes battled, he at least tried. Joba goes out there and when things don’t go his way, he just throws 20 sliders in a row and lets himself fall apart and doesn’t even try to compete.
Nobody with a clue suggested that Hughes was terrible and not a real prospect after what happened last year. In fact, Hughes was always considered the better prospect than Joba. Short term memory much?
Hughes was off to a decent start last year until he had a rib injury that derailed his season. In his 2nd career start, he no hit a solid Texas lineup for 6 2/3 innings, it’s been the injuries and not the ability. Last year he threw an incredible game at the end against Toronto as he got healthy again.
Joba has a serious attitude problem. It’s not growing pains, it’s a serious issue with a kid who doesn’t respect his catcher and doesn’t respect his coaching staff to the level that will be necessary for future development. Notice that guys aren’t going out there and defending these performances, they are as frustrated as we are. That tells you everything you need to know about what the team thinks of him.
Joba is in the rotation because they had no other options. If they had Chien-Ming Wang healthy right now and Hughes to start, Joba most likely would have been demoted to AAA to teach him a lesson, but they can’t. He is an important piece of this team, and he has to go out there and step up and compete, rather than sulk on the mound and whine.
=========================================
There’s my Melky !!!!
Clean single with 2 outs in the 9th inning when losing by 5.
Gosh – we need more Melk.
Cano fell behind 0-2, but worked a full count before grounding out.
Melky fell behind 0-2, but made Feliz work from there before getting a hit (was it also a 3-2 count when he got the hit?).
Joba’s not the only one that can’t put hitters away on an 0-2 count, I guess. But Feliz certainly pitched with a lot less drama than Joba tonight.
I see Jim Pir-one is still talking conspiracies and the Red Sox after they’ve become irrelevant in the AL East race.
Get that man a psychiatrist.
Feliz reminds me of Joba pre-injury.
this division race is far from over, esp if only CC pitches well for the yankees.
Pep, Andy has been great……and he was doing fine in Boston until the long inning. Of course, he needs to deal with that better, but still – he’s been great.
AJ will be fine…….
Hughes doesn’t pitch that much anymore, lol……so he definitely can’t carry the team. We can’t skate by with 3 starters for the rest of the season…….I’m just not sure what there is to do.
Bronx Jeers
August 25th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Here are the current standings for “Guess the Line Up”. After 23 rounds, there have been 65 different winners. Here are the participants with 2 wins or more:
————————————————————-
Wow, I went 3 weeks between wins.
Am I the Joba of GTLU?
***
Nah. You I don’t think you play every single day
Do they still make Mr. Pibb?
I hope not. That was a such a load of crap. Mr. Pibb…
They won’t blow this lead in the division Pepitone. No way.
The pitching is an issue when a starter can’t go deep into games consistently.
Tonight, Joba gave us a Joba performance. However, Gaudin ate enough innings to not negatively impact the bullpen the rest of this series. In that regard, he did his job.
They won’t have to face Feliz the rest of the series because the Rangers give him a day off for inning he pitches.
That’s a plus.
You need 7-8 pitchers for the most part in the post-season. Three starters, and 4 guys out of the pen, and a swing starter/relief pitcher usually see most of the work in the post-season.
CC, AJ, Andy, Hughes, Coke, Marte, Rivera and one other guy and they are good to go.
Joba? He is what he is and its best to not count on him in the post-season. Anything he gives you at this point is a bonus.
Matt August 25th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
Joba is un-coachable right now. He lives in denial, thinking that every mistake he makes is someone else’s fault other than his own and continuing to make the same mistakes on a consistent basis. Until he grows up in his own head, he won’t make the leap.
He’s regressing, not progressing. That’s what’s more troubling.
Matt you hit the nail right on the head.
SJ, do you think maybe Joba needs a public calling out from one of his teammates? I don’t like it – and I still don’t like that Damon did it to Phil (wouldn’t like it if he did it to anyone) because that just makes me uncomfortable. Still, being part of a team, you never want to let your teammates down; maybe Joba needs that cold water splashed over him?
Well there’s no comeback tonight.
lead cut down to 6 vs Boston. One more and we’re eliminated from the playoffs.
“It seems to me that his missing spots and struggling with his control. If it were as easy as listening to your pitching coach to fix that, then no young starter would ever struggle.”
Correct.
SJ, sometimes you ARE overly dramatic and as well as draconian in your pronouncements.
How about give it a rest, the way you counsel others, and let this play itself out without all of your dire predictions.
Joba was just fine after the All Star Break. So let’s not pretend that he “changed his ways” in this short period of time and decided to regress by being stubborn.
You are a real bright guy, but that is just plain silly.
The kid will be okay.
I DON’T KNOW IF THAT IS THE REAL SJ. SJ is a lot more patient and understanding and nonjudgmental. I think we’re being taken for an imposter ride. Not sure, but I think so.
GF, that may not be SJ. He says he typically doesn’t stay past 4 innings.
Posters beware.
3 of the 5 starters will be just fine. The #5 guy (Gaudin/Mitre) will be serviceable. #4, Joba, is the biggest question mark. The bullpen will also be fine. I think if the pitching staff has to have a little blip, this is probably the time to do it, while there’s plenty of time to regroup or unblip.
Jon From NJ -
People on this board have apparently never heard of some things.
1. Injuries to starting pitchers
2. You can’t give away games, or 4-0 leads easily. Most on the board wanted the Yanks to take 1 of 3 this weekend. If that was the case, the Yanks would only be up 4 right now, which would be certainly manageable.
3. The ability of some teams to lay down and bend over for the RS. The complete lack of effort from Dye and AJ and Rios tonight with 1st and 3rd and 0 out in a tie game was just another reminder.
I’m glad I did pay 900 dollars to see this game. Looks like the folks who did felt the same way too as they are long gone.
Anyone think that SJ writes crazy stuff out of frustration, and then denies he was even here when it was written? Deny, Deny, Deny.
Rob B
Andy requests you wear the Dr. Pepper shirt tomorrow night.
Wash it tonight because now it has losing vibes in it though.
Matt is winning over the first-time commenters with his brilliant psychoanalysis. Shocker!
Hmmm. Marte?
One positive is Marte has looked very good since coming back from the DL. Hopefully he can stay healthy.
Zack Greinke is a beast, 8 innings 15 k’s
The good news tonight is Marte. He can be a valuable guy in the post-season if he continues to pitch like he has in his last two outings.
I agree, Betsy.
But, these last four games the Yankee pitchers who lost, didn’t just lose, they were bombed!
I don’t know what the reason for it is, maybe it’s just one of those stretches, I don’t know. But, that is a concern.
SJ, that makes sense…..I’d like to see Marte regain consistent velocity and stay healthy. I think if he does, he can help.
I think it’s vital that Aceves get back on track – he’s a guy that I am concerned about above and beyond my usual negativity. He could be a key cog in the post-season – if a starter doesn’t have it, he could come in and shut the other team down, giving the Yanks a chance. He could pitch in the 7th inning, bridging the gap to Phil. If he’s really having a hard time adjusting to the pen, perhaps he should just be put in the rotation now……..I wonder what they will do with him next year.
2 out rally
Not more TOTS please
(Two Out Terror Syndrome)
Good grief.
The White Sox didn’t lay down for anybody. They just plain old stink.
That’s why they’ve been a .500 team all season. They have more talent than the Tigers but they haven’t played up to their talent level at all.
Nats beating the Cubs 12-5. Strasberg signs with them. And Billy Wagner said he would have liked to go there to be their closer.
The Nats are getting some respect finally!
Bronx Jeers August 25th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
Do they still make Mr. Pibb?
I hope not. That was a such a load of crap. Mr. Pibb…
____________
Yes, they do. But you can’t find it everywhere. Only in places where Pepsi has the distributing rights for Dr. Pepper. (Pibb is a Coca-Cola product).
any chance the Yankees get *these* white sox this weekend?
“Anyone think that SJ writes crazy stuff out of frustration, and then denies he was even here when it was written? Deny, Deny, Deny. ”
That’s pretty funny!
Marte looks good
Jim,
You are a strange guy. But you are right.
A 100 win Cardinals team showed no effort in 2004 and a Rockies team that won 22 of 23 showed no effort in 2007.
That is why a comeback is very possible.
Do not forget though how the Padres and Braves showed no effort in back to back World Series in 1998 and 1999.
what makes this game so sickening was that it was winnable… a decent starter and this game would be in the bag… just pathetic…
Ooh, I just read that Gardner’s splint came off and he hit a little today…….that’s good news
Black Sox were playing on the road tonight. Do your really expect them to win? The only teams that play well on the road are the Yankees and Angels. And the Rangers in Yankee Stadium (I’m starting to think that the Rangers line up might be better geared to the Stadium than the Yankees line up).
Marte pitching well. He could be a big boost to the bullpen.
Nick in SF in Larkspur
August 25th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
Matt is winning over the first-time commenters with his brilliant psychoanalysis. Shocker!
================
….Shocker or not – he is dead-on correct……you may not always like some ‘brutal reality’ when we all had such high hopes of the “OLD JOBA” – but he’s right.
Re-read and think.
Trisha,
I’m not a pom pom waver. Never have been, never will be.
He has been awful his last 3 starts. Frankly, he hasn’t been good for most of the season.
He has a bunch of people willing to blame anybody and everybody for his own bad performances. I don’t fall into that catagory.
Its not Girardi’s fault or Posada’s fault or “bad luck”.
He had a 4 run lead and couldn’t even get out of the 4th inning. Its a recurring theme with him.
If you believe he’s been good, we will agree to disagree.
Pitch like that in a post-season game and nobody will be waving pom poms at Joba.
At some point, some improvement, even if its incremental, would be nice. Unfortuanately, we don’t see that with Joba and he only has one person to blame for it. Himself.
Marte looks better than he did when we got him.
Oh, and if you think about it, tonight’s game was pretty much a must win for the Boston S*x. They have to win nearly every game that Buckett and Lester start to have a good chance at the playoffs.
The Yankees, on the other hand, are losing tonight behind their 4th starter, not their 2nd. It’s really not a tragic loss, not like the S*x losing behind Lester would have been.
Time to score 6 runs.
Unfortunately tonight they ran out of time.
MPB Johnny Damon – Awesome
Joba seems like someone you need to be tougher with. I don’t know about calling him out but they need to do something. I’m sure Girardi and Posada have talked to him about the shake offs. but he’s obviously not listening.
Hey it worked for Hughes with Damon. So…
Rally Yanks Rally!!!
Look, I respect SJ a great deal because he is a very smart fan.
But I do think he gets a little too flustered at times in the middle of a game and does some minor bridge jumping of his own.
He tends to simmer down by the next day.
Washburn sucks man
and the crowd has comeback aspirations, too bad we don’t have enough time to mount it.
Come on Yanks!!!
Do I really think the Yankees can blow this divisional lead? No. But, all things are possible in this crazy game.
Do I really think the Yankees can go far in the playoffs with this pitching staff? Now that is a tougher question.
Other than Hughes and Mo, I don’t trust that bullpen. Other than C.C. I don’t trust our starters.
Too bad Gaudin gave up that last home run.
Did Ron drop the F BOMB??!!!???
Grilli certainly didn’t last long. Wow. That’s a pretty quick pull
Girardi, you watching?
Rob B -
We’ll see how the Black Sox perform on the road this weekend!
ray -
the 1998 and 1999 World Series are completely different.
The Rockies are the only team to hold a lead against the Sox in either of those 2 WS, and their only lead was a 1 run lead for the first 3 innings of only one game.
Upstate: thanks, but long-distance pyschoanalysis and mind-readering doesn’t merit multiple readings.
I’m not sugar-coating Joba’s stinker tonight, but I’m not pretending I know what’s in his head either.
Pepitone <—- Positive Yankee fan
I have Washburn on my fantasy team.
I didn’t start him tonight because he’s been awful lately.
Pepitone, Carl <—- Crazy? Yankees fan
GF,
I’m not mad. I’m disappointed Joba continues to pull the same crap over and over because he makes it tough on the team.
I love the team’s chances in Non-Joba starts.
I just think this kid has had too much hype with little substance and it contributes to him being unable to improve and gain any consistency as a starting pitcher.
You can only play the “young” card for so long.
Tonight was vintage Joba in the way he went about torching this lead and its frustrating to watch.
Its an older team and you would love to see this kid gain some traction in order to make it easier on them down the stretch.
Instead, he’s more of a problem than solution and that’s too bad because he should be much better than he is, regardless of his age.
Maybe Francisco has another meltdown in him
Hopefully Francisco pitches like Francisco lol…Let’s go Yanks!!!
Well, I’m out all evening only to come home to this nonsense. I take it Joba stunk up the joint. Great.
“the 1998 and 1999 World Series are completely different.
The Rockies are the only team to hold a lead against the Sox in either of those 2 WS, and their only lead was a 1 run lead for the first 3 innings of only one game.”
Huh? Did somebody go back in time and change history or something here?
Laura – I like this new Alex! He’s a keeper.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
Well, I’m out all evening only to come home to this nonsense. I take it Joba stunk up the joint. Great.
***
What gives you that idea? LOL
# Laura – I like this new Alex! He’s a keeper. August 25th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
Well, I’m out all evening only to come home to this nonsense. I take it Joba stunk up the joint. Great.
Yea but Girardi will tell ya he battled and had bloop hits and he made good progress.
“Time to score 6 runs”
We only need 5 right now. You gotta be somewhere???
Hopefully he doesn’t hit anything on the ground..
I just think we ran out of time, this was needed in the 7th.
Did Joba have his meltdown after MIllwoods 4 pitch inning?
SJ,
I hear you. Of course, I’m not happy with the way Joba has pitched recently either.
I’m just not a big fire and brimstone guy because I don’t think that helps anything.
They’ve got about 5 weeks to get him right again and I have faith that he can do it.
Probably more faith than most everyone else has in him.
Come on Yankees!!!!
Matt has a fan?
God save us.
what is happening…lol
Yes!!!!
Let’s keep it going!
“You can only play the “young” card for so long.”
‘Til he gets old?
Let’s go Matsui!!! Keep the line moving…
we needed this in the 7th
Atta boy, A-Rod, a walk is just as good as a single, more baserunners!
Francisco is capable of giving up leads, he did so against the Red Sox in Texas.
Matsui is swinging for Japan
At least the Yankees can somewhat hide Joba in the postseason. Anyone watch the Phillies lately? Brad Lidge has been the WORST closer in baseball this season. Imagine having to hide the backend of your pen.
Anyway, the Yankees still have work to do before they get to October. They not only need to win the division, but they need to end with the best record in the AL so that they can choose the ALDS schedule that allows just 3 starters. And clinch homefield advantage. Those two factors are extremely important.
“If you believe he’s been good, we will agree to disagree.”
He’s had both good and bad games.
“Pitch like that in a post-season game and nobody will be waving pom poms at Joba.”
Agree.
“At some point, some improvement, even if its incremental, would be nice. Unfortuanately, we don’t see that with Joba and he only has one person to blame for it. Himself.”
I think that’s off the wall. Yeah we saw improvement. We saw it after the ASB. You feel free to “blame” Joba. I’ll stay with those who say there are other things going on and Joba is not getting the job done for other reasons. I’ll leave the rest to the experts. That would be the Yankees.
“I’m not sugar-coating Joba’s stinker tonight, but I’m not pretending I know what’s in his head either.”
I’m totally with you.
Matsui calm down…
Sui
MAtsui-san opposite AB of Al here. More like Robi.
KEEP IT GOING SOME MORE !!!
yes sui!!!!
This game isn’t over.
Godzilla!
Please no dp Jorge.
posada dont dp
Ok, keep it going. Good thing Posada is up before Cano. Please no DP.
This was needed in the 7th inning..we ran out of time.
It looks like I came home just in time.
Who’s glad they’re still watching???
Win, lose, we’re getting exciting baseball. Finally!
Re post
Hughes will be a better starter than Joba, I made good pitches,they got lucky with bloop hits.” He is a hard head.
Girardi gets this L
Stuck with Gaudin too long and treated this as a Spring Training game rather than going to his rested bullpen. We ain’t scoring 5 runs. We would have only had to score 3 if Girardi managed with some urgency.
Posada
Damn, he can’t hit that
scratch that Georgy is swinging like Robi.
YES!!!!!
Unbelieveable!!!!
HIP HIP JORGE !!!!
Posada with an infield single. Now I’ve seen it all.
Wow. Just wow.
Posada
We will score 11.
Ron Washington looks so sad….
Cano up.
Down 3 runs no outs.
Jorge with an infield single. Who called that one?
that was so lucky, but Robi here w/ RISP IDK see any good here at all.
That’s it boys.. keep fighting.
Come on, Robbie!!!
pat
August 25th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Posada with an infield single. Now I’ve seen it all.
***
LOL. Definitely not a phrase used everyday
If you had the over 0.5 on Posada infield singles tonight… you win!
the ol squibber from Posada, lets go boys
The great thing about this team is there is no quit in them.
So what are the odds of Cano having a good at bat here? Keep the ball off the ground.
Rachel August 25th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Damn, he can’t hit that
___________
I saw that post and thought Posada had struck out (my MLB.tv feed is a little behind).
Then Posada gets the slow roller.
Don’t scare me like that!
This is a game that could have been won easily if Aceves was still pitching like his old self and was able to give us 3 scoreless innings instead of the 2 homeruns Gaudin gave up.
That was a strike?
I cant watch cano >.<
The Texas announcers are pooping their pants!
YESSSSSSSSSSSS
Cano RISP?
Really?
WOOOOOOOOOOO
Robbie! Nicely done!!
omg Robbie!!!!!!!!!!
I CANNOT EFFING BELIEVE WHAT I AM SEEING!!!!!!!
We ran out of time, I still say it’s a heartbreaker.
Cano baby!!
Okay, I’m starting to think that I’m the Yankees good luck charm. I turn on the game and they start scoring runs.
And now Robbie with RISP?
Woohoo!!! I will be very pissed if they lose this game now.
Brandon, keep calling for failure during every AB, it’s working!
1st and 2nd now…1 run game. Do you bunt?
OK now I’m freaking out here.
10-9, do you believe this?
I do …
CANO!!!!!!!!
Can- do!!!!!
Can- do!!!!!
Bloops and squibs and seeing eye hits can work both ways!
bunt here??
That’s what makes games like this so frustrating…this team never, ever quits. It actually makes me feel better about the game, even if they lose…….
like I said!
———-
“BD 2.0 August 25th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
until further notice, they are still the Comeback Kids!
Feliz, Wilson, Francisco… no problem
“
All ye of little faith come foward so you can be whacked with the mustard seed stick!
My dad just called me!! He didn’t leave early!!!!!!!
Don’t bunt!!!!
And Rob B, I will buy a Dr. Pepper 12-pack if we win this game.
Swish please take a small swing…Not the grand slam swing.
this is ridiculous..we r so close
Never, ever, ever give up.
I’m hating this bunt.
Swish
do you bunt with Swisher?
Nick in SF in Larkspur :::
…not sure if you get the after game interviews out there…but Matt’s take is clearly in line with Joba’s post-game interviews…and as others have highlighted the consistant ‘shake-offs’
Deepest, deepest apologies for the re-copy.
C’mon Swisheroo…don’t try to do too much…
Betsy
August 25th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
That’s what makes games like this so frustrating…this team never, ever quits. It actually makes me feel better about the game, even if they lose…….
***
Betsy..
Feeling good about the team is a good thing!
OMG Swisher ugh!!!
Swish is off the team
F*CK
That couldn’t have possibly went any worse.
Why the F are you bunting there Girardi?
Come on!
and that kills the rally. We ran out of time.
I think Swish should take a strike, this guy is wild
WHEN IS GIRARDI GOING TO LEARN SWISHER CANNOT BUNT!!!!
I would rather Swish swing.
“Girardi gets this L
Stuck with Gaudin too long and treated this as a Spring Training game rather than going to his rested bullpen. We ain’t scoring 5 runs. We would have only had to score 3 if Girardi managed with some urgency.”
———-
please make Tom a goat. please!
Why can’t these guys get a bunt down?
They practice that is ST constantly.
After watching Francisco throw that first pitch, I decided the bunt was a bad idea. Francisco probably would have walked him.
And the next pitch proved me right.
sh it, that was huge, now its melk the dp man
The only thing Joba has improved was getting lit up in the 1st inning.HE has been great with his new pre game routine that helped him in this area correct.Now he gives up the runs in the other innings.
Mr. Walkoff Cabrera!
I was just going to say he doesn’t know how to bunt don’t make him do it. Just terrible.
momentum killer
Have we seen melky up in a spot like this before this year ?
Let’s go Melky.
IT’S THE DR. PEPPER SHIRT I TELL YOU!
Bets, no matter how this end, be happy and don’t think of anything negative at all. Or try. As you just said, no matter how it ends you like what you’re seeing. That’s what counts!
girardi has gota get the runners in motion..comeonn somethin
Just give them an out.
Damn it.
What 6-7 guys reach base in a row?
Francisco is on the ropes bigtime and you give away an out? Stupid.
Swish strikes out too much. I would have bunted him too.
I don’t disagree with the bunt – but awful execution.
And Swish is good at taking pitches.
Why in God’s name do you have him bunt? HE IS NOT A BUNTER. That’s been a problem all year. You let your guys do what they do, not play ABC baseball for the sake of doing it. Jason Giambi never bunted. It wasn’t because it was a sure thing he’d hit it over the fence. It was because him hitting it over the fence was FAR more like than him actually getting the bunt down.
That is what happens when players do things they don’t know how or are used to doing. Swish had to swing away there.
Melky has been cold as of late.
man if we win this game, the AL should just pack itup
THAT WAS NOT A DP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
Sob
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
meanwhile,
the Dodgers are 3 outs away from seeing their once HUGE division lead fall to just 2 games
mets???
Wow.
Wow
UpState, we’ll have to agree to disagree about Matt’s pyschoanalytical abilities.
Enjoy the game.
Well, no, not anymore.
are you freaking kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!!
was he safe?
Wow!
Hairston was safe.
Well Girardi you blew the game.
Thanks a lot.
that bunt, I don’t get why it was attempted.
He was out
At least they didn’t roll over and die
Can’t do much worse in the last two AB’s.
Bad bunt and a horrible baserunning move by Hairston. Can’t get doubled off on a play in front of you.
Great comeback and fell a bit short.
Ugh…………ugh ugh ugh. I’m dying, lol.
thanks swish changed the whole inning
That ending sucked a little. Why bunt with 0 outs though?
Well, I’m just glad they showed some fight.
I HATE these Rangers announcers.
Ah, well, at least they made the Rangers sweat, instead of just laying over dead.
These Yankees don’t quit, and that’s one reason, pitching problems aside, I believe they are going far come playoff time.
Can we PLEEEEESE stay out of the double play !!! …not with this idiot !!!
MELKY = Loser.
Gardner can’t get back soon enuf !!!
PATHETIC !!!
Sorry little Melky – it’s not April anymore !
Laura – I like this new Alex! He’s a keeper.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
Swish strikes out too much. I would have bunted him too.
————————-
He also walks a lot also.
Too much Gaudin.
Changed the shirt too late.
Bad decision to bunt on a wild Francisco with a guy at the plate who’s very good drawing the walk.
Joba left in too long.
4 pitch 3rd inning.
Did I miss any?
girardi looked mad when swisher…not sure thats what he wanted..
Worst ending to a game all season. Swisher bunting? His M.O. is drawing walks and hitting for power…not bunting to get the 9th hitter in the lineup an AB. Painful.
“that bunt, I don’t get why it was attempted”
Bunt made sense. Problem was Swisher can’t bunt.
OK, now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
Thanks Joba!
SJ
However, Gaudin ate enough innings to not negatively impact the bullpen the rest of this series. In that
regard, he did his job
__
Ate innings? He stunk and made a comeback that much harder.
Joe needs to be hung for having Swisher bunt. Bunt?! Really?! Swisher probably hasnt bunted since high school. I realize the idea is to move the runners over but bunting isnt like riding a bike. Its not just something you are suddenly able to do.
Another one in Joes loss column.
Way to go JOE>…guy always over manages….he has single handedly cost us 5 games this season
I would not have bunted Swisher – he can hit and I don’t even think he bunts much, does he?
Hairston getting picked off- sob again. This is a deflating loss……..or that’s what I feel now. Oy vey.
Texas should send a thank you note to Joe “by the book” Girardi. Forget Joba, Girardi can do more damage to the Yankees in the playoffs. When in doubt, he goes by the book. He never manages by feel.
What a rally killer by Girardi. Having Swish bunt was a big time mistake. Terrible, terrible, call.
Hairston actually looked safe, but of course the Texas feed wasn’t going to show a replay.
“Sorry little Melky – it’s not April anymore !”
he lined a ball up the middle, what’s your beef?
GREAT Yankee comeback. Now we go back to business and beat the Rangers.
Yanks are 6 up in the AL East and have the best record in the majors. Angels are losing 3-1.
I will sleep well tonight.
What a terrible way to lose. Of course Melky swings at ball 3. It seems like 99% of the time when a player tries to bunt and then doesn’t get it down it is always a double plays that kills you.
hey UpState – getting doubled off is on the runner not the hitter…
not swish’s fault — that is totally on Girardi. He needs to put down the stats sheets and actually follow the flow of the game. Having Swisher bunt in that situation is absolutely moronic…
The bunt really ruined the flow. You haven’t made an. Out yet why just give them one?
Not a big fan of Swisher bunting in that situation because Francisco was in a Joba-like meltdown mode.
That and a bad baserunning play takes you out of the inning. A shame.
Swisher’ bunt is always terrible.So stupid policy.
Joe G didn’t have the bunt on. Swish’s fault.
I apologize. Looks like Swish chose to bunt on his own. What a moron.
Swisher’s inability to lay down a bunt once again loses the Yankees a game they had in the bag.
The simple things, the ones that every team in baseball except the Yankees can easily do. He gets that bunt down, the game is OVER. Infield in with Melky at the plate, the game is OVER.
Melky hits a ground ball that he typically hits and it’s a base hit. That line drive? That’s a 2 run game ending walk off single.
Inability to bunt. The simplest thing in the world, the one that you learn at 5 years old in little league, and once again, the Yankees can’t do it, and it costs them a game.
Francisco was practically handing them this game on a silver platter, and they bailed him out big time. Of course it ends with Melky swinging at ball 3 despite hitting a ball hard, taking away any hope of the pitcher giving it away on his own.
Just embarrassing.
No way should swish have bunted. We sent 6 guys to the plate and they all got on base…why give them a free out?
Harold Reynolds says it looks like Swisher bunted on his own based on Girardi’s reaction
That inning was a good example of this team trusting the guy behind them enough to take walks and not swing for the fences.
This team has changed and for the better.
if your going to bunt dont bunt on a high pitch swisher you stupid moron
The sun will come out
Tomorrow
Poor poor managing. The guy has yet to record an out in the 9th, so why give him one? Sooooo stupid
Swish is a good bunter, it’s just that situation w/ his bat and a wild pitcher, why bunt?
Nick in SF in Larkspur
August 25th, 2009 at 11:01 pm
UpState, we’ll have to agree to disagree about Matt’s pyschoanalytical abilities.
Enjoy the game.
Well, no, not anymore.
===================
Always enjoy them !!!
Have a great evening !!!
Damn, why couldn’t we have just gone down 1-2-3 in the 9th?
Despite the almost comeback, the fact of the matter is that the Yankees shouldn’t have to come up with 6 runs in the bottom of the 9th to win a game. This is on the pitchers.
Man Swish probably would have walked with how wild Francisco was, oh well there is always tomorrow.
So with a little league-esque right field and a guy with 21 dingers at the plate … let’s just spot them an out and bunt! Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Girardi! And that’s after he gives up on the game in the 5th with Gaudin. BRUTAL.
The bunt is the only head-scratcher for me there… pitcher is reeling, team on a roll at the plate. Forget that Swisher failed, kind of dulls the momentum anyway… unless it works and then you get the run in, I guess. Oh well, get ‘em tomorrow.
Shouldn’t give up an out to a guy who hasn’t recorded one and is clearly in meltdown mode.
That’s a tough one to swallow.
Just hope Andy can come back strong.
The last time I checked, Swisher has more than 20 home runs. I don’t care if he’s hit 17 on the road, you don’t bunt a guy like Swisher who can end the game on a single swing into the Pop Warner right field stands. He’s Nick Swisher, not Ramiro Pena or Jerry Hairston.
As much as the Yankees have been rolling as of late, that was an AWFUL, AWFUL decision by Girardi. How can you bunt when Francisco was throwing meatballs over the plate?
WHAT A FREAKING BUMMER OF AN ENDING!! THIS NOW HURTS WORSE THAN A 10-5 DEFEAT. THIS TEAM SHOULD BE BANNED FROM USING BUNTS TO MOVE RUNNERS! I LOVE SMALL BALL BUT I THINK THE YANKS HAVE LOST TWO WINNABLE GAMES BECAUSE OFF ILL-ADVISED BUNT ATTEMPTS!!! GOSH!!!!!
Pete, you are incorrect. Gripe all you want about momentum and Swisher not being a bunter but you have to bunt there. Have to play the percentages. You are a major league hitter. You have to and should get that down. You make Melky a .370 hitter when they bring the infield in with runners on second and third. On top of the fact that a decent fly ball ties the game.
At least Feliz and Francisco are probably unavailable tomorrow. If the Rangers had to win a game, I’m glad it was a close one.
Angel, Hairston was out. YES did a very detailed replay that clearly showed the Ranger SS got his foot on the bag before Hairston got his hand on it. It was the right call, much as I hate to admit it.
Note to self. Wear the Dr. Pepper shirt at the beginning of the game tomorrow. Do not wait until the 8th inning.
Sometimes, I wish this blog wasn’t family friendly. The string of curse words I’d like to use to express my extreme distaste of Girardi’s EPIC MANAGEMENT FAIL would just not be allowed here.
Terrible loss. If they were going to do that, I’d have rather they lose 10-5, and not even bother in the 9th.
Ouch.
The Yankees will take the next two games and win the series, as usual.
JRod August 25th, 2009 at 11:04 pm
Harold Reynolds says it looks like Swisher bunted on his own based on Girardi’s reaction
====================
Giradi need to let Swisher and Melky take some days off.
I know Melky has been clutch this year but I’ll never be a Melky fan. I just never have confidenc ein him.
And Girardi had no business using Gaudin in this game. When down 2-3 runs at home in the middle of the game the Yanks are far from out of it. This was the type of game where earlier in the year Aceves would give us 3 scoreless innings and Yanks would win in. Good effort. Now we have to take the next 2. I’m not comfortable with a 6 game lead because we have 2 terrible pitchers at the back of the rotation and a mediocre #3 in Andy.
And we still have a very tough September schedule with the Rays, Red Sox, and a West Coast trip. I’m sick of Joba.
Look for Joe to give us the analytic excuse for the Swisher Bunt in PG. I’m not even going to listen.
Trisha:
Halos LEAD 3-1
I dread seeing this guy manage in the postseason.
Here’s hoping someone asks Girardi in the post game if he put the bunt on or not…
this loss is on joba… stupid stupid stupid.
Yeah, did Girardi call off the bunt after the first pitch? Because if he didn’t he was rong. I think Swisher didn’t get the sign. Swisher has the best eye on the team and the pitcher was totally wild. I think the odds were in his favor that he would work out a walk. Girardi gave this one away. I guess we all keep forgetting that Girardi is essentially a rookie manager and we have to deal with his growing pains just as we deal with Joba’s. Oh well at least they made the Rangers sweat. I guarantee you that no one is strutting around that clubhouse tonight like they would have if the 9th went 123.
I have a feeling that Girardi will say that Swish bunted on his own. It was still the wrong move no matter what. Francisco is a choke artist no reason to give him an out. Gaudin giving up the 2 out, 2 run homer was obviously the killer. Girardi should of pulled him after the 2 out walk.
Great show of heart yet again by this team. P.S JOBA SUCKS!
Nobody is saying Gaudin is anything special.
You have a 4 run lead, it would be nice to see your starter get out of the 4th inning.
He gave up 3 runs in 5 innings. Joba gave up 7 in 4.
Simple math tells me that Joba and not Gaudin is what cost them tonight.
Exactly. He was meltdown and they gave up an out for nothing. A walk would have been way more useful. Rather annoying.
I pretty much said to myself game over when I saw Swish square.
lost in the madness was a nice RISP hit by Cano.
6 straight guys reach base and Texas is dying for an out somewhere – anywhere! – and the Yanks bunt off a guy who throws 96 high heat – and with a guy who isn’t a good bunter.
Go with the gut, Girardi – throw your stupid book away.
And that was all set up for Jeter to have pie!
Hate losing like this.
Ugh. Would have rather lost 10-5
Question:
Any doubts that Jeter gets it done if Hairston isn’t doubled off?
For me? None.
“he lined a ball up the middle, what’s your beef?”
That poster’s utter stupidity has long since been established, Brandon, just treat it as the work of an absolute moron that it is.
Elvis Andrus day at YS.
Swishy bad move there.
pete ur absolutely wrong about the bunt situation… u have to execute the bunt in that spot.. u wouldn’t have any gripes.. about it because the yankees woulda won.. love ya anyways pete
“Yanks are 6 up in the AL East and have the best record in the majors. Angels are losing 3-1″
Angels are winning 3-1!
You know what Girardi needs more than anything – a zimmer sitting on the bench next to him telling him the gut move. Girardi is pretty gutless but there are very few gutty managers in their 2nd year.
Pretty lousy game all around for the Yanks
Wow. Just a horrendous ending.
I thought for sure they’d get one more run, even with one out.
Oh, well. This game was lost a long time ago.
Etch-a-sketch.
Oh, yeah, let Joba pitch and send him to the bullpen when he reaches his limits.
Maybe we should all ask ourselves where was Hairston going on a line drive with 1 out?…That is the real question
The bunt isin’t the story of the game
Jova is. Yet another subpar outing by him.
I’m with Sunny. This one is on Joba when it comes down to it
Seems like more than a few of us agree that the bunt sign was off there. That being the case, I love Swish but you see stuff like that and you start to realize why he wears out his welcomes. Girardi had to run the other way in the dugout just to keep from strangling Nick when he came back to the dugout. Unreal– went from sure-fire incredible comeback to gut-wrenching loss in a matter of seconds…
“Ugh. Would have rather lost 10-5″
me too.
DT, Swishy bunted on his own.
I like that when the Yankees lose, they are almost always right in the game. The good news is the strong part of the pen is rested and ready to go for tomorrow. Lose the battle, win the war.
That bunt attempt killed that rally. One thing is to do that attempt with RISP against a top closer and another one is to do it against a pitcher that had “blown save” written all over him. You have to let Swisher put the ball in play with no freaking outs. That was over-managing and many times we’ve lost games because of that. Right now its not a big deal, but let this happen in the postseason and Troy will burn again!
I will not be watching the post-game show – I want to forget about this game ASAP. Boy,. this is a painful loss…….
Swish……thanks a LOT.
Girardi asked for that bunt, he’s a moron. Swisher? I’d rather have him pitch again than bunt. Reminded me of Giambi trying to bunt… ugh
I don’t understand why with a man on 1st and 2nd and no outs, the hitter work with the fact that the pressure is ALL on the pitcher. Why help him out with a bunt attempt that can so easily go wrong. Wait for the pitcher to make a mistake or see if he cracks under pressure. Not like there isn’t a precedent for that with Francisco.
These guys just don’t know how to bunt. With the way he was struggling why would you give a big chance for an out by bunting Swisher? That just didn’t seem like a wise move.
That was a crap way to end the game.
Very disappointed in the pitching tonight. Having a hard time understanding the logic behind bringing in Gaudin in and leaving him in to give up so many runs, and then trying to bunt Swisher.
Why does this team do this to us?
Stop teasing us!!!! If you are going to lose then just lay down! Only rally if you intend on completing the job.
The problem was Swisher was only going to get high pitches to bunt, it was pretty predictable he was going to pop it up
SJ
Simple math tells me that Joba and not Gaudin is what cost them tonight.
__
Joba’s outing is what is known in business as a sunk cost. Once that is recognized, the goal is to put yourself in a position to limit the damage so that you may be in a position to win later in the game. Gaudin failed at that, which is not surprising because he isn’t very good and shouldn’t be on the roster.
It seems like Girardi had the mind set that no matter what the score was he wasn’t using the decent bullpen today. Gaudin was in the game way too long. I kept waiting to see Robertson and it never happened. I wonder why he was ok with giving up the tack on runs and 2 out walks.
if swisher gets the bunt down you have 2nd and 3rd 1 out
if swisher doesnt bunt and is swinging..if he hits into a dp himself…people are gonna be saying he should of bunted….in that situation, if you are going to bunt you have to make sure you get it down…
i dont like the bunt there but if he got it down it wouldnt of been a terrible situation..
Swisher bunting was entirely the correct move. It moves the tying run to 3rd base if he gets it down, where he can score on an out. The infield is pulled in, which means that Melky’s typical double play grounder is a walk off hit. It also means that he can’t ground into a double play, and with a smoking Jeter on deck, it means that he most likely gets a chance to win it if Melky can’t.
Bunting was absolutely the right move. Sometimes it’s up to the guy to get it down, and Swisher failed miserably. He not only bunted at a high fastball, but he had a horrible technique in which he was pulling off the bunt and not making sure he got on top of the ball and got it down.
He gets that down, the game is most likely OVER. That’s a huge and correct play, and SWISHER, not Girardi, blew it.
“Maybe we should all ask ourselves where was Hairston going on a line drive with 1 out?…That is the real question”
That was horrific baserunning, your taught to freeze on a LD.
You know what? I think Girardi has to understand that Swisher is a space case and if he’s going to take the bunt off he needs to call time and have Thompson go down and tell him. Lesson learned, put it in your pocket Joe.
Right now, the show of heart is nice, but totally secondary. I can’t even care about that right now because of how it ended. Eventually (tomorrow, after a good night’s sleep), I will realize what a darned tough team this is.
I love how people are going nuts over this L. The fact the Yanks even made this a game is a job well done. They went up 4-0 just to see Joba give up 7 runs in 4 innings. The Yanks did lose this game because Swisher bunted. They lost because Joba is a joke of a starting pitcher at this point.
I agree…throw the book away…more importantly…we need to throw Joe away
Now, I understand that this is just one loss and not a huge deal, but the bunt was ridiculous. Whoever called for it was not thinking. JHJ was already on second, so he would score on a base hit. Moving him to third makes no sense. And at that point in the game, trying to move Cano to second so he could score the winning run is an absurd strategy. You need to tie the game first, especially with Coke, Robertson, Mo, and Hughes still in the pen.
Yeah, the Yanks have the best record in baseball and Girardi needs help making tactical decisions during the game.
Puh-leez.
Some people are just determined to complain about something.
This team doesn’t know how to bunt.
Girardi has to realize this team is not a fundamentally sound one. Stop trying to bunt and manufacture runs when they have no idea how to. Just let them swing and hope it goes out of the park.
This game is about Joba and not the 9th inning.
How many more miracle comebacks can you expect?
They had a 4-0 lead and he spit it up, gave up 7 runs in 4 innings of horrific pitching, and forced them to play uphill the entire game.
At least they got Feliz out for the series and the Rangers had to use Francisco a lot.
The pitching though is a problem right now. These guys have to pick up the pace outside of CC.
Can’t expect to score 11 every night to win.
Stuck with Gaudin too long and treated this as a Spring Training game rather than going to his rested bullpen. We ain’t scoring 5 runs. We would have only had to score 3 if Girardi managed with some urgency.
====================
I agree. I don’t get the move to Gaudin anyway. He had a rested bullpen, the game was still winnable, and they would have won if they could have held them to 7 or 8 runs. Why not use Robertson, Aceves, or maybe Bruney, even he’s better than Gaudin.
It looked like Joe gave up on the game.
I’d rather lose a blowout, but on the other hand………….again, you can’t kill this team. They are the vampires of MLB – they keep rising from the dead.
That was over-managing and many times we’ve lost games because of that.
Don’t expect to hear anything like that from Joe
“Girardi asked for that bunt, he’s a moron. Swisher? I’d rather have him pitch again than bunt. Reminded me of Giambi trying to bunt… ugh”
he didn’t ask for that bunt, that was all Swishy.
I think this one is 50/50 yea Yanks showed heart. But Francisco Franco just sucks.
Whether a successful bunt wouldn’t dulled the momentum or not, the failed bunt sure did.
The pinch-runner getting doubled up didn’t help either.
Sure got fun there for a few minutes, though. Sigh.
Swisher was trying to bunt a high pitch. You never try and bunt a pitch that high. It’s almost impossible to keep it down, much less direct it where you want. A pitcher is always going to try and go high if a bunt is on.
At least, that’s the way I understand it. Swisher should have pulled back on that. If it’s a strike, fine, but don’t try and bunt the high pitch.
another way of thinking of it – Tex stays close to the RS in the wild card
Tough loss.
I disagreed with the bunt call. Swisher cannot bunt so why was he up there bunting. Got to know your people, Joe.
They had Francisco on the ropes and gave him a much needed out. Basically all the momentum ended there.
Joe is a by the book predictable mgr. It has worked most of the times this year, but not tonight.
That LD DP by Melky was just bad luck. He hit the ball hard after a patient AB and Hairston just did not have a chance to get back. Can’t really fault Hairston there. It was bang bang.
The bottom line. Poor pitching by Joba and Gaudin. Gaudin’s job was not only to give them innings but also keep things reasonably close. He did one but not the other.
TEX had alot of seeing eye hits in the 4th and it seems as though everything went there way.
Even though the NY offense gave it a valiant effort in the end it came to a bitter end.
Need to come out tomorrow and win.
“DT, Swishy bunted on his own.”
Brandon – he squared on the first pitch as well.
If Joe didn’t want the bunt there – he would have sent the 3rd base coach over to chat with Swish the clown.
We had a 4-0 lead tonight
4-0
Joba coughed it up. That is what should be the story of the game.
Rishi
August 25th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
hey UpState – getting doubled off is on the runner not the hitter…
—————————-
1 out 2nd & third….if you’re not going to get a hit…at least make your out to the other side of the infield to get the lead runner to 3rd with 2 out.
Maybe a WP / PB / balk ? hit (?) tt tie the game in your home park.
Would.ve been tied if ‘little cutesy’ hadn’t made another sad out prior to Jeter’s double…
Get back soon, Mr. Gardner !
Matt, I don’t think anyone is questioning if the bunt is the right move, it was. What we are questioning is if Joe called it off due to the wildness of the pitcher and Swisher’s excellent eye. The way Joe walked down the dugout seemed to signal that a sign was missed. I can’t imagine a manager getting that upset when a player doesn’t execute. That’s just part of the game. What get’s a manager upset is a mental mistake.
Our pitching staff must lead the league in relinquishing leads of atleast 3 runs or more.
Joba is the king of it.
If a starting pitcher can’t throw a strike with a 4 run lead, he shouldn’t be on the roster either.
Gaudin is the long man on the staff right now. Aceves is beat up and Gaudin is the guy they use when the starters can’t go deep into the game.
If the starter could hold a lead long enough to get into the 6th inning, no Gaudin.
That starter being ineffective is the story of the game and not the longman.
I broke my thumb and was back playing in 4 weeks…whats Gardners deal???
Joba was terrible, but the managing of this game was just as bad.
Swisher tried to bunt a ball… that was high. Where is the fundamentals of this team? They don’t seem to know how to bunt except by accident, and those times are meant to be real swings.
Can’t play small ball if they don’t know the basics of HOW to do it.
SJ44
August 25th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
This game is about Joba and not the 9th inning.
SJ44
August 25th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
This game is about Joba and not the 9th inning.
Come on Comet, you act like they’ve regularly let the fans down. They have more come from behind wins this year than any team, and they have more win than any other team…period.
Just wasn’t their night tonight.
Yankee hitters never give up.
Lousy pitching cost Yanks the game. Hard to win when you give up 10 runs.
We certainly didn’t help Boston there.
Why does this team try and play small-ball?
They have no idea how to. They haven’t for years and nothing is different now.
Swing the freaking bats
The funny thing is talk like this an everyday occurence on Mets blogs
if anyone watching the post game can post highlights it would be appreciated…
Whoa, how did that happen?
What I meant to say is that if Gaudin or someone else pitched well, you wouldn’t need a miracle comeback.
This team will come out the next two nights and win both games.
That’s what they’ve done all season and it’s the reason why the Red Sox don’t have a chance to win the AL East.
This team isn’t going to give up their lead.
I for one am over NL pitchers.They’re average at best when they come to the AL.No wonder they can’t win the ASG.
I for one am over NL pitchers.They’re average at best when they come to the AL.No wonder they can’t win the ASG.
Ghost
I saw that two and thought it was unusual, but in this case I think he was reacting to the popup not a missed sign
Yankee hitters never give up
==========
wish I could say the same thing about the manager…
I hope Girardi tells Mr. Swish to never do that again. The pitcher just gave up 6 hits and you are giving him an out??!! We have seen Melky do that before. It is just soo stupid and dumb. Francisco is terrible and was in the middle of a melt down and he helped him out big time.
I love this team though – they never give up. Down 5 in the 9th? No big deal………I am really trying to find the positives here so I don’t let this loss eat me up inside. The comebackablity is a fantastic trait and that never goes away. The problem is, having to come back all the time is a problem. They won’t be able to do this in the post-season…..LOL a 6 game lead seems so small all of a sudden.
We lost a game to Boston tonight… down to 6 games.
I thought the deal was if we lose to Texas, the White Sox have to beat Boston in the same night?
Fine that GoDan is the long man, but if he isn’t being effective and is instead giving up runs, is it smart to leave him in there so long?
What is the point of signs if the guy is going to bunt on his own?
He squared around the previous pitch too. If they didn’t want him bunting that should have been communicated to him.
Either way its a disgusting display. Francisco hadn’t even recorded an out and was having trouble throwing strikes. Swish probably walks there, or at least works the count full.
Just a bad, bad job.
Like i have said ALL SEASON LONG if you guys have READ MY POSTS…GIRARDI SUCKS…makes the WRONG calls at the WRONG time..if you bunt, bunt with someone that knows how to.. i.e. JOSE MOLINA. But swisher ALWAYs walks/gets on somehow, and with melky up (who almost got a basehit) he might have won it, because the infield would have been in…but no matter, that was GIRARDIS loss on that one..
AND HE WAS SAFE at 2nd!!!!! I got the DVR/TIVO to prove it! What a come back though and a SUCKY manager to screw it up
“If Joe didn’t want the bunt there – he would have sent the 3rd base coach over to chat with Swish the clown.”
knowing Swishy he prbly missed it.
Look on the bright side people— Texas didn’t lose another game to Boston. They didn’t gain a game on them, but they didn’t lose one either.
For this game Yankees can win but loss make me angry not upset.
So stupid Joba Rule.
So foolish policy on Swisher’ bunt.
Yeah but Matt, the guy can’t bunt.
The Yanks have a lot of guys that can’t bunt.
They haven’t got a bunt down all year. I mean not literally but almost.
jake
mlbnetwork slowed it down. He was out.
Joba’s going to get lost in this, but I agree – he’s the story and in the end, the real concern. Hairston is not going to keep making bad baserunning plays and Swish will do the job more often than not.
Brewers showing the Yanks how to complete a rally
We knew this team had fight even before this game. They didn’t need to do it tonight to validate their comeback ability.
Even if they had gone down 1-2-3 tonight, it wouldn’t change that.
swisher has layed down some good bunts this year…i cant recall if he flubbed any but still…if he gets the bunt down which he should…your in a great position to tie or win the game….swisher is most at fault for not getting it down
I’m not a big fan of the bunt either but in that case it was justified. Swish gets the bunt down, a fly ball from Melky ties the game.
The ending made that loss hurt even more but ah well, just one game. The Yanks will come back tomorrow and I bet Swish gets a big hit.
Betsy
Joba’s going to get lost in this, but I agree – he’s the story and in the end, the real concern.
__
Joba is the story because of the expectations, and yes, he is a concern, but if the pen held Texas at 7, the Yankees win.
The Ghost,
Girardi was most likely just as mad that Swisher popped up the bunt in that spot. Saying that he took the sign off doesn’t have much support either. He squared on the first pitch and pulled it back. If he squared on the first pitch, of course he’s still bunting on 1-0 in that spot.
Why would you take the bunt off? The tying run is at 2nd base with no outs. You are at home, you play for the tie. You don’t risk hitting into a double play and completely destroying the rally. Even the failed bunt attempt was a better outcome than grounding into a double play.
Francisco is wild, but he also has overpowering stuff. You are more likely to get a sacrifice fly or a grounder through a drawn in infield than a bunch of solid base hits. He throws one good 96 mph fastball to Swisher and the rally is dead on a double play grounder just as easily. Bunting in the 1-0 count was the right move.
You guys give everyone such a ridiculous pass. Joba was terrible, but it’s just “growing pains” so you can’t blame him, even though he nibbled like a guy who throws 85 mph with a 4-run lead. Swisher was tasked with bunting and pretty much sealing the deal, and he had a horrible technique and pitch selection and popped it up. He gets that down, this game is pretty much over unless there is an incredibly lucky line drive or ground ball. Swisher popping the bunt up is not Girardi’s fault, it’s Swisher’s fault.
If Girardi did in fact take the bunt off, then he’s an idiot for that reason, not for the reason you guys cite. Remember the 15 inning Red Sox game? 1-0 on Melky, took off a bunt, hit into a DP. In a bunt situation, you BUNT, period. You don’t mess around and give the guy a chance to straighten himself out. You go for the KILL, which is the bunt.
I have no problem with playing small ball IF you know how. Bunting is a lost art with the Yankees. Gardner and Jeter seem to be about the only ones who have a clue on how to bunt, and Gardner only because he has good speed.
If Joba pitches like he did tonight, there won’t be any rally in October.
SJ44 – “The pitching though is a problem right now. These guys have to pick up the pace outside of CC.
Can’t expect to score 11 every night to win.”
=======================
Exactly, and that, more than anything else has me concerned going into September.
Is this series of pitching meltdowns just a harmless blimp in the season, or is it a preview of things to come?
We’ll find out soon enough.
Suzyn: Girardi told Swish to bunt…
Oops. Angels are leading 3-1. I read it backwards.
Oh well. I think it was a great comeback try and I’m not bummed at all that we lost tonight. Losses happen.
By the way, according to Waldman Girardi put on the bunt sign.
That was a ball that Swisher bunted out on. With his eye he should have seen that and let it go.
I have no problem with bunting if the player knows how, but Swisher obviously doesn’t know how.
I hope the press doesn’t think they will get alot from Joe regarding the bunt and Joba. The answers will be a non event. Reminds me of the other Joe well there is always tomm.
Ask about the bunt?…of course not…what is this B.S.
Typical Girardi B.S. we learn from it we move on…come on
Don’t have a problem necessarily with the idea of the bunt. If it is a decent bunt it sets up the runners nicely.
But Swish could move the runners up by walking, at the very least. So, maybe he’s not the guy you bunt with.
Girardi ain’t a happy camper. Specifically about the 2 out runs.
Terrible job by Joe G.
Nice try Yanks.
Some perspective on Joba is again needed.
Joba has had 35 career starts, 23 this year.
He has pitched more innings this year then he ever has before.
His ERA (3.98) is below league average (4.35).It seems even bad Joba is better then an average Joe.
He is 23 years old. Not an excuse, it’s actually how old he is.
No he has not been very good this year. Way to inconsistent.
Going way overboard on critism of a 23 yr old pitcher with 35 career starts is not smart.
Remember, Grilli put the first 2 runners on.
If the game is close, he is never in there. It works both ways.
And who is to say Robertson or Bruney would have held them scoreless?
Crap My 9 postgame switches to the news.
I’m not waiting around to hear more reaction but I really wanted to hear what Joba had to say.
The difference between 6 games and 7 games up seems like night and day
7 you are at ease… 6 just feels like it is too close for comfort and another loss and Sox win makes it 5 and they inch closer and it becomes a mess.
Ugh, Joe……..he’s GOT to be kidding. He can’t trust Swisher to get the job done? Wow, I’m pissed.
Definitely not fond of the (to me) meaningless post moretems that follow losses so I will happily power down and look foward to winning tomorrow.
GO YANKS!
Tarheelyank
Joba has a 4.34 era
And, question, what happens to the hitters’ “eye” when they’re given the bunt sign? I’m going to assume that even with the bunt sign on, it’s okay to take a ball, right?
post mortems
Manny ties the game up.
Leaving Gaudin in there was worse than the bunt.
Richie, that’s all true. He wanted to move the runners over? What, Joe had no confidence that Swish could get the job done? Grr…………..
“His ERA (3.98) is below league average (4.35).”
I agree with the rest of your post, tarheelyank, but I think the ERA has unfortunately gone north of 4.00.
4.34 to be precise.
11th Hour August 25th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
Leaving Gaudin in there was worse than the bunt.
Joba giving up 7 was worse than all.
Heroic effort by the offense, strategic bunting issues notwithstanding. This Yankees team has a lot of fight in them, which is one of the reasons why they’re so good. They’re as tenacious as they are talented, they expect to win and they never give up. Gotta love ‘em because they are pretty awesome …
The loss is on Joba, period. No idea what if anything can be done about him, but it’s a pity he has to make it so hard on himself and his team. Shoutout to AJ: Please work out whatever it was that reared its ugly head last Saturday … please. One imploding mess per starting rotation is about as much as any postseason-bound team can be expected to handle.
Joba gives up 7 runs and people complaining about a bunt lol
Why not kill Joba for giving up a 4-0 lead?
Well, I will say this, SJ44, if Gaudin is the long man, then we’re in bigger trouble than I thought.
Girardi is in his own world. He said Swish has been asked to bunt earlier in the season and has gotten the job done. He said he wanted to get the runner to 3rd base. Girardi makes it seem like the middle of the order was up after Swish. It was Melky and he isn’t good. Who is to say he would get the run home? I guess Girardi thinks that since a player bunted 2 times this season he now knows how.
CC, AJ, and Andy better win all their postseason starts. Asking Joba to help us will leave us greatly disappointed.
To make the night even worse, I didn’t win megamillions.
Francisco was on the ropes. Barely throwing strikes, those pitches in the zone were getting ripped.
He was wobbling. All we had to do was tap him and he would have fallen over.
Instead you just give it away.
You can’t always play it by the book Girardi. Game situation dictates some thinking outside the box.
Francisco hadn’t retired a SINGLE BATTER and was wild his first 2 pitches to Swisher. Part of the reason he popped it up was the pitch was a ball up out of the zone. Swish easily works a walk there. At worst.
I’m generally a realist with a slant towards the positive and even I knew the game was over after the “popout bunt”.
A disgusting display really.
I lost the Mega Millions.
How many runs did Gaudin give up tonight?
Joba’s problem is plain and simple. He hasn’t learned how to pitch….yet. I am sure Eiland has told him one billion times that you need to work off of your fastball. But as soon as things go bad it is slider after slider. He shakes Posada off every time to throw the slider instead of the fastball. He is very predictable and batters know the slider is coming. It is also never a strike so it isn’t hard to lay off of it. Until he listens to advice he won’t change.
SJ,
You have been so back and forth on Joba all year. This is the best pitcher to come up with the Yankees in the last 20 years. Your opinion on whether or not he will end up being a frontend starter pretty much changes with each start he makes.
Yes, it was a terrible game from Joba. The fact that he hasn’t learned how to pitch aggressively at 23 doesn’t he’s not going to figure it out as he gets older.
Your so worried about the ALDS, well, the Yankees have lost ONE series since the All star break. That’s ONE out of ELEVEN. They have lost TWO of the last SEVENTEEN series they’ve been in.
Remember when people wanted Girardi to implement small ball and teach the team how to manufacture runs?
lol
Everytime he tries, it ends up in disappointment like this. Just let this team try and hit HRs— it’s what they do best. They can’t bunt or play small ball. The sooner Girardi realizes this, the better. Let the hitters hit. Maybe they get lucky and hit it out of the ball park.
Is Girardi lacking a feel for the game? He is so by the book it’s annoying. Sometimes you have to throw the book away and go with the flow of the game.
You don’t bunt 1. a guy who does not bunt and 2. give an out away which Francisco did not record yet.
I like Girardi but some of his managerial moves………..never mind.
Matt
August 25th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Swisher bunting was entirely the correct move. It moves the tying run to 3rd base if he gets it down, where he can score on an out. The infield is pulled in, which means that Melky’s typical double play grounder is a walk off hit. It also means that he can’t ground into a double play, and with a smoking Jeter on deck, it means that he most likely gets a chance to win it if Melky can’t.
———————————————-
Thank you for the comment. Totally correct.
Swisher screws up the bunt and Girardi is getting the blame for it. I didn’t see Girardi at the plate.
Love those comments “Swisher can’t bunt so it’s not his fault”. Huh?
I dread seeing this guy manage in the postseason.
At least Torre never overmanaged. He let his star players win him games. He didn’t interfere with that.
Melky in these situations has been good all season.
I can’t believe that some of you still think Girardi doesn’t know what he’s doing. Even if they go on to win the WS, I’m sure you’ll find something to blame him for along the way. You can’t win every game, and every play is not going to work out.
This game was lost because of the pitching today. Except for Marte, no one could put anyone away with 2 outs. That’s what the focus should be on.
no.27: you have made a bunch of spot-on comments tonight. Kudos to you.
The Yankees don’t only hit HRs….I don’t think they are that one-dimensional.They had strung together numerous hits…………they’ve done this a lot in games where they’ve made late comebacks. Still, the point is well-taken that Joe did not allow his team to do what they do best – and that is hit their way into another win.
“He said Swish has been asked to bunt earlier in the season and has gotten the job done”
Swisher does have 3 sac bunts on the year, the most recent being against Boston when they were at NYS. The bunt made sense there, but three successes aside, it’s not really Swisher’s game.
Swisher can’t bunt? Boo hoo, I feel so bad for him with his $6-7 million yearly salary and 5 hour workdays.
Maybe he should go out there and practice bunting, because as a .245 hitter #8 hitter, you aren’t going to ever have him swing the bat in that situation.
5 year old kids can bunt, so the excuse that they “don’t know how” is more like “doesn’t care to learn.” That is an obvious bunting spot, and not bunting is risking a rally killing double play. Even a popped up bunt is better than grounding into a double play.
If Swisher can’t get the bunt down, that is entirely on SWISHER. If a major league player can’t bunt, then that’s more a reflection on the skill set of the player, don’t you think? Even Giambi and Ortiz could lay down the occasional bunt base hit down the 3rd base line when the shift was on.
Swisher is a player who lacks fundamentals. That’s not Girardi’s fault, that’s Swisher’s. Maybe if he spent more time practicing catching the ball and less time perfecting his mohawk he’d be a better player.
Nick
I guess Yahoo hasn’t updated yet. The point is still the same.
As for the 9th inning, everybody needs to quit second guessing. All you can hope for is to bring the tieing run up to the plate. The Yankees did that and more. I will say it again, NICE TRY YANKEES.
I don’t have a problem leaving Go Dan in there. Why run through the bullpen in a game we were losing?
Damaso with a couple of good outings recently.
Which leads me to the beef with Erica’s PBF. He said Hughes in there, and the bullpen’s back on track after Wang killed the bullpen.
I knew something was bothering me, besides the fact that he threw a popular Yankee under the bus for something that wasn’t even his fault.
What killed the bullpen is that we had to depend on scrubs in important situations because Damaso and Bruney were injured/crappy. And we had to dip into our starting pitching depth to cover with Hughes & Aceves. We’re lucky that Wang’s injury and subsequent misuse of Hughes/Aceves did not cost us many games.
The only manager that Girardi can outmanage in the postseason is Ozzie. Or rather, Ozzie will manage himself and team out of the game.
Leyland, Socscia, and Francona will school this guy so badly. And when we go to the NL… La Russa, Torre, even Jim Tracey will have their way with him.
Bonehead manager + No #4 starter + 2 reliable bullpen arms = early exit in October.
Swisher bunting a pitch out of the strike zone is Swisher’s fault. What happened to his “eye?” If it’s a ball, you take it, no? I imagine the bunt sign is in effect as long as it’s a buntable pitch.
“I guess Girardi thinks that since a player bunted 2 times this season he now knows how”
Swish has hit into 9 DPs this year so it’s been established he knows how to do that.
The bunt was a good idea if it worked but it didn’t.
Even if Swisher gets the bunt down I think its a bad play. I’ve already listed my reasons.
How’s that for you?
Are we really now complaining about the manager with a 6 game lead in the AL East? You don’t have to agree with the decisions he makes, but if that’s sucking I cannot imagine what you thinking about the people who manage the 28-29 teams with a worse record.
This is what is wrong with the game.
The guy is a major league ball player making millions. And he can’t lay down a simple bunt?
Swisher has plenty of time to style his hair and play loud music, but he can’t practice bunting?
Why does the blame go to the manager? Why not blame the player who didn’t execute a simple task?
Doreen,
LOL. Good question. If Swish has such a good eye, couldn’t he see the sign?
Anyway, Swisher got too excited, me thinks.
The only people on the team who know how to bunt and are good at it are Jeter, Damon, Gardner and maybe Melky. We have seen Cano try and it was a disaster.
Only person that should be bunting is Brett Gardner. Sucks that hes on the DL.
There may be a spot in the postseason where a bunt is the RIGHT call.
Will Swisher know how to bunt any better than?
Some of the blame here is misguided. What if we had runner on 2nd, no outs, down by 1 in the 9th? Swisher HAS to learn how to come through. That’s the difference between winning and losing games.
They had that game.
It was right there. These are the types of losses that annoy me.
Not the ones where the players don’t perform, because that happens.
1st and 2nd no outs. One run down.
4 runs already in.
Why not go for the win? Even if he gets the bunt down, its 1st and 3rd one out. Maybe they can tie the game but the odds of WINNING it that inning go down dramatically.
A dp kills that rally anyway.
Let him hit. Or more likely, let him walk.
In spite of the fact that Damon laid down one of the most beautiful bunts a couple of weeks ago, he’s told Joe G. in the past he doesn’t like to do it.
There was a big flap about it.
Really, truly, the only one we’ve seen that can do it is mr. awesome himself.
GG tonight.
“I’ve heard Swisher is a decent power hitter and is pretty adept at getting on base.”
___________________
not at home he isn’t!
This is apparently what Joba said in the post-game:
With 2 outs the game sped up on me, I couldnt make the pitches I wanted to”.
**I got this from NYYFans.com – I couldn’t stand to deal with the post-game.
Not one of Girardi’s finest moments.
Just hope the bats stay hot and Andy/AJ can pitch a couple good games. Would have been a great win though….
“Are we really now complaining about the manager with a 6 game lead in the AL East? You don’t have to agree with the decisions he makes, but if that’s sucking I cannot imagine what you thinking about the people who manage the 28-29 teams with a worse record.”
The record of the team isn’t the point. Girardi didn’t need to make that bunt decision as his team was doing fine by themselves in making the game tight. Sometimes, the best decision a manager can make is to not make a decision at all and let his players determine the game.
“Why not go for the win? Even if he gets the bunt down, its 1st and 3rd one out. Maybe they can tie the game but the odds of WINNING it that inning go down dramatically.
A dp kills that rally anyway.”
how could it be 1st and 3rd…2nd a third it would be…unless you assume the runner would be out at second which is unlikely
“The pitching though is a problem right now. These guys have to pick up the pace outside of CC.
Can’t expect to score 11 every night to win.”
Team ERA: 4.37
Team ERA w/o Wang and Claggett (who won’t pitch in the ALDS): 4.08
Anyone have a link to Joba’s postgame comments?
It looks like every regular beat writer is off today and a My9 postgame.
Young Justin Chamberlain was the goat tonight.
His ERA has climbed nearly a full run this month. He’s only averaged about 5.1 innings per start for the season but this month he’s been a bit under that.
The team has won 2 of the games he’s started but one of those games was against Smoltz. The other was the comeback against the Jays when Matsui and Posada went back to back in the 8th.
Simply put, he’s been hurting the team at this point.
Lets hope he figures it out but considering he seems to have a serious case of Nuke LaRouche syndrome, the odds are against it.
Giuseppe Franco
August 25th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Yeah, the Yanks have the best record in baseball and Girardi needs help making tactical decisions during the game.
Puh-leez.
Some people are just determined to complain about something.
Yay, a rational comment in the deluge of “Girardi is an idiot, it’s not Swishy’s fault”.
Yep, often it’s Never, Never land here.
Most sac bunts:
Gardner: 5
Cervelli: 4
Swisher: 3
Melky: 3
Pretty impressive for the Cisco Kid considering the short time he was here. Maybe he should be on the post-season roster as the pinch bunter.
I am off to bed!! I did not win the lottery
For those who care the numbers were 3-12-19-22-40 MB #2
Good nught Yankee people!
It should never have come to asking Nick Swisher to bunt the runners over … like Pete said it was a total momentum killer.
Why be so hyper-focused on playing “small ball” at that point when all of the hitters were teeing off on Francisco? It makes no sense.
Also, if Girardi wants to manage by rote then he completely contradicted the basic premise that he thought he was looking to do … you play for the tie at home and the win on the road … the Yankees had pulled within 1 run and had the tying run in scoring position with nobody out. You worry, first, about tying the game … then if you are lucky enough to tie it, work on winning it.
One other thing, if Girardi is going to be hard-headed about his decision to let Swisher bunt in that spot, could he have least had Francisco throw a strike before commiting to it. The first pitch nearly went to the backstop and the pitch that Swisher popped out on was up and outside. He was so clearly rattled. I dont think it is a stretch that as long as Swisher showed bunt, then pulled the bat back, Francisco would have continued to throw balls.
I really hope I am wrong, but Girardi scares me once the playoffs start … I really hope he doesnt get tight … he blinked tonight when all he needed to do was just trust his team to finish the job.
It should never have come to asking Nick Swisher to bunt the runners over … like Pete said it was a total momentum killer.
Why be so hyper-focused on playing “small ball” at that point when all of the hitters were teeing off on Francisco? It makes no sense.
Also, if Girardi wants to manage by rote then he completely contradicted the basic premise that he thought he was looking to do … you play for the tie at home and the win on the road … the Yankees had pulled within 1 run and had the tying run in scoring position with nobody out. You worry, first, about tying the game … then if you are lucky enough to tie it, work on winning it.
One other thing, if Girardi is going to be hard-headed about his decision to let Swisher bunt in that spot, could he have least had Francisco throw a strike before commiting to it. The first pitch nearly went to the backstop and the pitch that Swisher popped out on was up and outside. He was so clearly rattled. I dont think it is a stretch that as long as Swisher showed bunt, then pulled the bat back, Francisco would have continued to throw balls.
I really hope I am wrong, but Girardi scares me once the playoffs start … I really hope he doesnt get tight … he blinked tonight when all he needed to do was just trust his team to finish the job.
m-
I didn’t mean that Swish didn’t see the bunt sign on or off; I meant, if he’s got such a good eye, why bunt at a pitch outside the strike zone that was not a good pitch to bunt.
Seriously, I am at a loss as to what goes on with guys who are not used to bunting. Is this something that has to be practiced more? Should BP mean bunting practice at least once a week?
But Swish did have success bunting in the past, so I would assume that is why Girardi trusted him to bunt in this case. It didn’t work out.
Still, there’s just one out and Melky – Mr. Clutch – up at bat. He hits the ball hard, but right at someone, and the runner screws it up. Makes you realize how many things can go wrong, but also how many things have to go right. My heart was pounding during that rally, and it stinks that it fell short, but man, it’s really great that they never, ever say die. they play hard to the last out. Gotta love that. Gotta believe that most of the time, they’re going to have success with that attitude.
Two fewer runs given up with 2 outs by the pitching staff, and the Yankees would have won this game.
Swisher is 0-5 with 3 strikeouts career against Francisco, FWIW.
Meanwhile, all this caterwauliing about Girardi and Swisher and bunts don’t mean anything.
Do the Yankees have more than 1 reliable starter? Has Andy Pettitte now become the #2 starter on this team?
The Yankees have to get AJ and Joba straightened out before the post season. Winning this game 11-10 would not have solved that problem.
disco stu great post.
That about sums it up.
Bronx Jeers,
One more Joba start before the trade deadline, someone (Theo?) needs to leak a rumor about Joba getting claimed.
After that, we’ll have to go with whispers that the Yankees would be open to trading Joba over the winter.
It’s the only solution I can come up with at this time.
“Swisher is 0-5 with 3 strikeouts career against Francisco, FWIW.”
So what? 5 AB’s is hardly a big enough sample to tell you anything meaningful. And this was hardly vintage Frank Francisco on the mound tonight.
Darrin,
Which makes all the complaining about the bunt even more amusing. The guy gives up 7 runs and blows a 4-0 lead and all everyone is complaining about is a debatable bunt.
my 9 showed joba and swisher video
joba said he didnt do what he needed to do to help the team win
swisher says they never give up..he says half the stadium (exaggeration) left but they didnt give up…he would of loved to see what happened if he got the bunt down…he says he needs to get better at it
I can’t watch Joba’s post game interviews. His comments drive me crazy. Suzyn said, Joba said that he thought the pitch to Young was a good pitch but obviously it wasn’t. Also that he really doesn’t know what was wrong. It’s a problem when the pitcher doesn’t know what he did bad. At this point he seems very lost.
Disco Stu, couldn’t agree more…………
you are so far up swisher’s ass it’s not even funny. you have been all season. regardless of who what or why he should be able to get the bunt down and it cost them the game.
Excusing Swisher by saying “he can’t bunt” is like excusing Hairston by saying “he can’t make his first step back to the bag on a line drive.” It’s fundamental baseball and anyone who can’t play it shouldn’t be on the field.
He’s much more likely to K, pop-up or hit into a double play in that spot than he is to flub a bunt. If he gets it down it guarantees a Jeter or Damon atbat with a chance to win. Absolutely the right call.
My only gripe with Girardi is the childish way he stomps down the bench. It’s unprofessional and it makes him look weak.
thanks
“Swisher is 0-5 with 3 strikeouts career against Francisco, FWIW.”
Is that the same Francisco who was begging to be put out of his misery a little less than an hour ago?
Girardi should have just let his team ride the momentum toward whatever finish. If Swisher had struck out and then Melky lined into that double play I could have lived with more than the way it actually played out … because at least Girardi put his trust in his team.
The guy is a major league ballplayer. No excuse for not knowing how to bunt.
Even A-Rod and Pujols should know how to bunt. It’s a fundamentals part of the game.
What do these guys work on all day?
“Which makes all the complaining about the bunt even more amusing. The guy gives up 7 runs and blows a 4-0 lead and all everyone is complaining about is a debatable bunt.”
Maybe because Joba’s ineffectiveness has already been discussed all night long while the shorted out 9th inning comeback attempt just happened.
Joba is not the Yankees best young starting pitcher in the last 20 years. That would be Andy Pettitte.
It’s that kind of ridiculus hype that creates more problems than solutions.
He was awful tonight because he continues to refuse to pitch off his fastball.
He was given a 4 run lead and couldn’t even hold it for 2 innings.
That’s not good. He’s been terrible his last 3 starts and it’s too late in the year to wait on him.
He has 5 more starts this year.
Just have somebody shadow his starts and get him out when he begins to implode.
Tonight, pulling him after 2 could have been a teaching lesson for him.
Unfortunately, they waited too long and he put them in a hole everyone could see coming.
He is what he is at this point. Just an arm to get through the season and nothing more.
The less he pitches in the post-season the better.
Can’t afford these performances in the post-season.
Again… as the guy above said. Why is Swisher being excused?
There may be a no-brainer situation in October where it is the right move for him to bunt. People say the rest of the season is all about preparing for the postseason right? Between Joba/Gaudin’s performances and that pathetic bunt, tonight was not a good start…
Posada was 0-9 with 5 K’s vs Frank Francisco before tonight. Yet he managed to single. Do you know why he was able to do that? The manager let him swing the bat.
“My only gripe with Girardi is the childish way he stomps down the bench. It’s unprofessional and it makes him look weak.”
That wasn’t one of his best moments and gets me to question his game demeanor. IMO, he screwed up.
Rachel, are you kidding me?
Alex
August 25th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
This is what is wrong with the game.
The guy is a major league ball player making millions. And he can’t lay down a simple bunt?
Swisher has plenty of time to style his hair and play loud music, but he can’t practice bunting?
Why does the blame go to the manager? Why not blame the player who didn’t execute a simple task?
———————————–
What’s really funny is that after this game people don’t trust Girardi to make the right decisions. People he’s been making the right decisions all season. That’s Girardi and Pena making the decisions, two of the brightest catchers that ever played the game.
Some Keyboard Warrior is worried about the Yankees’ decision process. Give your head a shake.
You’re all full of beans. If Swisher strikes out – you find out his stats against Francisco and you scream because Girardi should have know his history and had him bunt.
At this point, Brett Tomko is a better pitcher than Joba.
What an embarrassing performance. Didn’t this guy also have a 4-0 lead in Anaheim that he blew?
Bases loaded, 1 out in the 10th for Colorado.
Ding!
SJ scores with the Andy Pettitte point.
Doreen,
These threads after losses are so sad. No wonder everyone says Yankee fans are spoiled and ignorant. Second guessers and flip-floppers galore.
Rockies win…The lead is getting smaller in the NL West.
Eh, Lou Piniella throws hissy fits out on the field – that’s embarrassing and I never liked it. I don’t like it when any manager does that……it’s childish. The team will survive Joe’s anger, but of course most of it should be directed to himself. He did NOT give his team the best chance to win because he took the bat out of a hot hitter’s hand. Ugh……..that’s just aggravating. If Swish had K’d or hit into a DP, well so be it, that’s baseball.
So thinking this over.
Swishy gets the bunt over, it’s 2nd and 3rd and being 10-9 the Yankees would have 2 outs to get that run in. Taking in account Swish is 0 for 5 vs Francisco and you can’t expect him to implode and having it set up for Melky than Jetes, can’t really fault him there.
Got to be able to lay down a bunt.
Second and third, 1 out, Melky and Jeter coming up.
Unfortunately, it didn’t happen.
In yhe last 8 games, they have given up 51 runs after 2 outs. That ain’t good.
Hard to keep hoping for miracle comebacks.
The starting pitching has to pick up the pace the rest of the week.
Swisher hits into a DP there, this board is singing a completely different tune.
Does anyone doubt that if Swisher had been given the hit sign, and then hit into a 4-6-3 (like Posada did a few weeks ago against the A’s in the 9th) that there would be a whole different cast of characters here screaming that he should have bunted?
Fine. People can debate managerial decisions.
But for my money, Joe Girardi’s bunt sign ranks about 51st on my list of concerns for this team come October. The top 50 all have to do with pitching.
thanks nick…. there must be some jerk using the “no.27″ name, but i might as well take the credit
“You’re all full of beans. If Swisher strikes out – you find out his stats against Francisco and you scream because Girardi should have know his history and had him bunt.”
That’s not true. Bunting is always the wrong move. Don’t give away outs. Especially when a pitcher is on the ropes and can’t retire a single batter.
“You’re all full of beans. If Swisher strikes out – you find out his stats against Francisco and you scream because Girardi should have know his history and had him bunt.”
Actually you’re the one full of beans because you don’t have any idea what I would’ve thought or said. Speak for yourself when it comes to your reaction and you’ll be fine. With a seven game lead and your team making a great comeback without any input from you, I rather a manager let his players decide the game instead of thrushing himself into the flow of the game. I might have thought so differently if the Yankees had a good bunter up there, but that’s not Swisher’s game and I think Girardi overmanaged when he didn’t have to do so.
No, Swisher did not give his team the best chance to win.
He was asked to put runners at 2nd and 3rd with 1 out for Melky, Jeter and maybe Damon.
He failed.
Girardi asked his hitter to perform a simple task that a little leaguer should be able to perform and he can’t do it.
Swisher gets the blame, not Girardi.
“That’s not true. Bunting is always the wrong move. Don’t give away outs. Especially when a pitcher is on the ropes and can’t retire a single batter.”
Correct, they had him on the ropes and he was ready to cave when Swisher bunted that ball in the air.
“Posada was 0-9 with 5 K’s vs Frank Francisco before tonight. Yet he managed to single. Do you know why he was able to do that? The manager let him swing the bat.”
Georgy’s hit was a lucky swinging bunt. So EPIC FAIL there.
SJ – so true.
But it’s much more fashionable to blame the manager rather than hold the players accountable.
lol @ sciatica. sending lackey out to start the 7th @ 113 pitches.
Granderson with a leadoff triple.
Is Nick Swisher now suddenly Barry Bonds?
He’s above being able to know how to bunt?
“Rachel, are you kidding me?”
Nope. Same dumb comments from him as usual. I am surprised we didn’t hear the “they are good hitters and they just hit good pitches line.”
Posada was 0-9 with 5 K’s vs Frank Francisco before tonight. Yet he managed to single. Do you know why he was able to do that? The manager let him swing the bat.
And ironically (is that a word?), Posada’s hit was a swinging bunt
Rockies are now 2 games behind LAD after being 15 out in May.
Ouch.
once again ill say i had no problem with the bunt…swisher needed to get down the bunt…he didnt…6 games up…yanks are a good team, keep winning series’
“The manager let him swing the bat”
What else was Posada going to do?? The bases were loaded when he was up.
Well of course He should be able to bunt but if he can’t then you’re sort of rolling the dice.
I’m not blaming Girardi. A manager is really exposed in these situations and he’s not always going to pull the right strings.
Bunting makes perfect sense but every tool has it’s job. And well… Swish is sort of a tool so there you go.
As far as Girardi not being able to out manage Tito, well he sure schooled him on BP usage in that 15 inning game.
Scosia? well any manager’s gotta bring his A game with that guy. And Leyland? well that guy’s been doing this forever. Still no way this game is on Girardi’s shoulders. 4-0 lead turns into a 4-7 deficit. That was the game.
I’m over the bunt. Didn’t like it, but whatever.
What I am not over is the main problem with this game tonight: mainly Jobber’s performance.
What is going on with him.
“And ironically (is that a word?), Posada’s hit was a swinging bunt”
you notice how he or she has stopped posting after that.
“Rachel, are you kidding me?”
“Nope. Same dumb comments from him as usual. I am surprised we didn’t hear the “they are good hitters and they just hit good pitches line.”
did you hear the part where he said that he didnt do his job and needs to be better for this team?
How about Jobber holds a 4-zip lead?
“You” may not have reacted differently. However, the undefined “you,” related to the general “they” and “them,” would have. It happens all the time.
The thing is, what goes on a lot is not simply a difference of opinion on what Girardi does or does not do; it almost always ends up being about how terrible a manager he is and how it dips into hyperbole. Ain’t sayin’ he does everything right. But there is validity to the decision to bunt, and there’s validity to the opinion that he didn’t necessarily have to put the bunt play on there. I don’t argue with those opinions. Just the Girardi-bashing that I don’t really understand.
This game was not lost on a bunt play in the 9th inning. It wasn’t even lost because Hairston made a baserunning blunder (hello???) It was lost by the pitching staff that can’t get the 3rd out.
I’ve never watched Swisher specifically but I’ve even seen Alex and Matsui both lay down a few bunts during BP before games.
Isn’t that something that everyone practices regularly?
Very valid point on the pitching. The Yankees have forty (40) comeback wins. That means that the offense is not consistent. As in today, scored 4 runs in the first, and other then a cheap HR disappeared until the ninth inning. In many games they will score a few runs in the first few innings then it’s all pop ups and fly balls until the late innings.
“did you hear the part where he said that he didnt do his job and needs to be better for this team?”
Ralphie… stop ruining the story with the truth! Twisting and bashing Joba’s postgame comments are a ritual here whenever he pitches poorly.
Joba can try, but he will never overtake Ian Kennedy in the postgame comments department.
lol some more because he let Lackey stay in with 116 pitches and proceed to give up a triple to the next batter.
Now we’re dissecting Girardi’s leg movement in the dugout?
Boy, are some people bored or what.
Ian Kennedy postgame comments are historic.
LAD has a cancer on their team called Manny.It’s as plain as the nose on your face.He’s disrupted the Chemistry.
Torre has to be pulling his scarce hairs out.
Imagine if Girardi did what Soscia just did?
“the blame goes to both of them, Girardi for overmanaging and Swisher for not executing a simple bunt. And Joba, for being a doofus. That said, we’re still the best team in baseball.”
Best post of the night.
I’ve moved on from thinking about the Swishergate scandal.
I’m more concerned with pitchers not being able to close out innings, and Joba’s inability to get ahead/locate with his fastball.
Tom,
I mean it’s not like Lackey started the season on the DL because of forearm issues or anything.
Any chance Sergio Mitre replaces Joba in the postseason?
“I rather a manager let his players decide the game instead of thrushing himself into the flow of the game.”
Uh, Girardi didn’t insert himself as a pinch hitter, he asked Swisher to “decide the game” by executing fundamental baseball. That’s kinda his job.
Did you have a problem when Joe stuck his nose in and pinch ran Hairston for Posada, too?
“did you hear the part where he said that he didnt do his job and needs to be better for this team?”
Saying he didn’t do his job is obvious and not the important part of his comments. To then hear him say he didn’t know what he did wrong is very troubling. He is basically saying he is lost. That is a terrible thing for the team at this point in the season.
i want to punch a lot of people in the face.
No yankees or posters here though. I’ll start with the idiots responsble for those stupid Smirnoff commercials.
Joba’s the 4th starter in the postseason. So it has been decreed, so it shall be.
He really doesn’t “deserve” it, but they don’t have any other viable options.
Now before you jump all over me, does Joba look ready to start in the postseason.
Be honest now.
“Did you have a problem when Joe stuck his nose in and pinch ran Hairston for Posada, too?”
I did. Because in the bottom of the 10th, he might have been due up with runners on base and we lost a big bat in our lineup. Too soon to start pinch running there.
“Any chance Sergio Mitre replaces Joba in the postseason?”
slim chance
fat chance
no chance
“Now before you jump all over me, does Joba look ready to start in the postseason.”
He doesn’t look ready to start for the Trenton Thunder.
LOL. Carlos Pena = 37 homers, 35 singles
Girardi may have to consider CC on short rest in game 4 (assuming the ALDS schedule doesn’t automatically give him the game 4 start).
I haven’t heard the whole postgame, but if Joba admitted the game sped up for him then that’s terrific.
That’s like an alcoholic admitting they have a drinking problem (no pun intended here).
That’s why these young pitchers have a rough go when guys get on base. Joba’s hardly the only one. Wang had problems, and Hughes, too.
For him to identify that and admit it is a step forward in my eyes.
And no Ian Kennedy jokes until he’s back in action.
I’ve often bunted in the batting cage.
But that’s only because I get so tired of swings and misses and crave even the slightest contact.
Swish should have laid off on that pitch. Too high.
Remember when we could have just started Wang in game 3 and Andy in game 4? Sigh… the dream rotation from Spring is shattered.
Now we have to start a bum in game 4, which is a huge game. Either down 2-1 with a win to continue playing or up 2-1 with a chance to finish them off.
“Joba is not the Yankees best young starting pitcher in the last 20 years. That would be Andy Pettitte.
It’s that kind of ridiculus hype that creates more problems than solutions.”
Let’s compare their numbers just as starters through age 23.
168IP in 26 games, 4.12 ERA, 1.405 WHIP, 5.8 K/9
192IP in 35 games, 3.51 ERA, 1.406 WHIP, 8.6 K/9
Pettitte averaged about an inning more per start, but didn’t have to deal w/ being stretched out and had 3 full seasons in the minors.
Posada/Hairston was the tying run. Posada is slower than molasses. If you don’t tie the game, you don’t get a 10th inning. I think the pinch runner was the right move. Maybe a better move if Swish gets a hit (or lays down a bunt).
With all this controversy, we seem to be somewhat assuming that Swish would have either walked or gotten a hit if he wasn’t forced to sacrifice. That’s not fair, really. the chances were just as good he’d have struck out or hit into a DP.
Swisher bunting is just Girardi overthinking again.
Ball players today are a joke
They only think about their fancy cars, jewelry, and HD TVs… they don’t know how to play fundamental baseball and don’t put in the time to learn how to bunt and perfect their game
There are exceptions like A-Rod who is a star who constantly perfects his game, but that is not the norm… kids these days only care about getting rich and getting famous.
oh Hell who am I kidding. Right now I’d punch Coney and my new BFF Kenny in the face if they were here.
Not about this game. Craptastic traffic on my way out of Fun City. Contructiion crew laughing. UNDER THE O’NEILL BANNER! I say!
Joba 44 pitches his last inning,my head was spinning.
Hope he gets it figured out by Sunday’s start.
“Now before you jump all over me, does Joba look ready to start in the postseason.”
Start a game?
Right now I have him arriving at the park early and starting the coffee machines.
I’ve seen enough of Joba. How can you send this guy out there in a playoff game?
Let Aceves get stretched out and become the 4th starter.
Age is irrelevant here, compare their #s through the first X number of starts.
Or just go with what what would universally be accepted. That Andy turned out to be a very good pitcher over his still ongoing career.
Loner August 26th, 2009 at 12:33 am
Ball players today are a joke
They only think about their fancy cars, jewelry, and HD TVs… they don’t know how to play fundamental baseball and don’t put in the time to learn how to bunt and perfect their game
————————————————————-
I hear you brother!
Comet
August 26th, 2009 at 12:27 am
“Did you have a problem when Joe stuck his nose in and pinch ran Hairston for Posada, too?”
I did. Because in the bottom of the 10th, he might have been due up with runners on base and we lost a big bat in our lineup. Too soon to start pinch running there.
————————————————————
You’d be better off being one of the 8 tiny reindeer, pulling Santa’s sleigh on Christmas Eve than posting idiocy like that. Since when is the 9th inning too early to use a pinch runner for a bad base running, slow footed catcher when you need runs?
Doreen
August 26th, 2009 at 12:02 am
You’re all full of beans. If Swisher strikes out – you find out his stats against Francisco and you scream because Girardi should have know his history and had him bunt.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just saw this, Doreen. With 7 bunts to his name historically, I doubt anyone on this board would have said to bunt if he’d struck out. Makes no sense. Either you bunt or you don’t — and some of our guys just don’t. Swisher’s obviously one of them. You take your chances with the bat in that regard.
Why does it have to be “Girardi-bashing” to criticize that call? It’s a simple observation and opinion.
Don’t forget… Texas owns Joba. 4 starts he hasn’t gotten out of the 4th in any of them.
Maybe just a bad matchup for him. See how he does against Chicago or Baltimore.
“did you hear the part where he said that he didnt do his job and needs to be better for this team?”
Saying he didn’t do his job is obvious and not the important part of his comments.
**********************************************
Not important? So you’re just going to dismiss it because you prefer to focus on the things you consider troubling?
How is it “troubling”? If he knew how to fix his problems, he’d be doing it! As annoyed as I am at him, I don’t think he’s doing this on purpose.
Also, this team has the best record in the majors despite him getting regular starts this year. If Joba keeps pitching the way he is, he’s not going to be a pivotal part of the postseason rotation. It’d be nice to have him to contribute, but its hardly terrible that it might not happen either.
This division race is not over.
Brian Wilson threw 41 pitches yesterday in 2.2 innings and he is out there again tonight
Agree, Bedard.
If we stumble and have a 2-4 week or something while Boston goes 5-1 (entirely possible), it’s back down to a 4 game lead and they are right there again.
We haven’t clinched anything yet. We already lost 1.5 games in the last 2 days. Take the foot off the pedal against a great team like Boston, and you will pay. Maybe not relinquish the lead entirely, but make it close enough where we have to start sweating again.
Wang IS Taiwan -
It’s NOT Girardi bashing to criticize the call. But as I posted after that, discussion often turns to that. Some here are great at giving opinions with good reasoning behind it. I can see the side of the argument that says no bunt, even though I don’t necessarily think it’s the wrong move. What I objected to, and the point of my original “full of beans” post is that often, too often, that some people kind of have a knee-jerk negative reaction to anything Girardi does. He’s not a jerk or brainless or a poor manager because he called for a bunt in that situation. Was it the right decision? Well, it wasn’t tonight, I guess, because Swisher couldn’t do it.
And again, I say the game wasn’t lost on a bunt call or a poor running play. It was lost by a pitching corps that couldn’t get the 3rd out. That was the real issue tonight and the bunt call is a red herring.
Jesus, Boston trolls are pathetic. Boston finally wins a game on the night the Yankees lose and they are “on a roll” and ready to take the lead.
“If Joba keeps pitching the way he is, he’s not going to be a pivotal part of the postseason rotation.”
He will once he gets back to 5 days rest, I don’t care who you are pitching on 9 days rest it’s impossible to stay in a rythmn, unfortunately he has to deal w/ that now.
m August 26th, 2009 at 12:27 am
Joba’s the 4th starter in the postseason. So it has been decreed, so it shall be.
He really doesn’t “deserve” it, but they don’t have any other viable options.
Now before you jump all over me, does Joba look ready to start in the postseason.
Be honest now.
————–
You have to understand your target audience here.
Do you really think most people on this blog now are going to be thinking logically after an ugly game like this?
There are going to be the same people who ripped Sabathia early in the season and told us how much he “wasn’t an ace” like the superhuman Josh Beckett.
There are the same people who buried Phil Hughes back in May, buried Pettitte before the All Star Break, and ripped into Burnett after Saturday’s performance.
I know you’re smarter than that, mel.
The postseason is 5 weeks away. They have time to get him right.
“If we stumble and have a 2-4 week or something while Boston goes 5-1 (entirely possible), it’s back down to a 4 game lead and they are right there again.”
meaning there would be ummm 2-3 wks. left..yeah I’ll take a 4 game lead over that span.
The division race is over.
Boston is finished. They can’t even win consistently on the road and now they are suddenly going to overtake the Yanks for the division.
Give me a break.
“He will once he gets back to 5 days rest, I don’t care who you are pitching on 9 days rest it’s impossible to stay in a rythmn, unfortunately he has to deal w/ that now.”
Bingo.
You would think that we went up to Fenway and got swept by some of these comments.
I want to pucnh Cap Lock in the face now too.
Swisher grew up in baseball and he can’t bunt (true?) Says to me no his dad didn;t think it a big deal. Only thing I could do in Little League was bunt.
Todd Cook: punch in the face
GF,
So we’re so supposed to turn our heads to what’s happening? It’s a wreck, but one you don’t want to look at.
Joba had a great stretch after the ASB. Then once the deadline passed that edge he was pitching with went away.
I’m telling you, Joba gets a bigger pass than any young pitcher I’ve ever seen.
He’s a special kid, no doubt, but it’s frustrating. Very frustrating. Even Doreen spoke up tonight. I was shocked.
There’s no meritocracy where Joba’s involved, and that’s what I don’t like. And I suspect that SJ doesn’t either. What happened to pitching for your supper? All the other young pitchers had to do it. I don’t know if pandering to Joba is what’s best for him in the long run.
If we had another viable veteran starter like Wang, I would’ve sent Joba down to AAA. That’s right. Because obviously, there are things that young pitchers can learn down there.
“How is it “troubling”? If he knew how to fix his problems, he’d be doing it!”
It is bad because when you get smacked around 3 starts in a row and you don’t know what the problem is than how are you supposed to fix it?? He always says he threw good pitches but obviously that isn’t the case. He is the only person that thinks throwing 3-2, and 2-1 sliders in the dirt and not using your fastball isn’t a problem. How is it not bad if a pitcher doesn’t know what he is doing wrong?
joba will be lights out next start. just to mess with us
joba will be lights out next start. just to mess with us
“Joba is not the Yankees best young starting pitcher in the last 20 years. That would be Andy Pettitte.
It’s that kind of ridiculus hype that creates more problems than solutions.”
Let’s compare their numbers just as starters through age 23.
168IP in 26 games, 4.12 ERA, 1.405 WHIP, 5.8 K/9
192IP in 35 games, 3.51 ERA, 1.406 WHIP, 8.6 K/9
Pettitte averaged about an inning more per start, but didn’t have to deal w/ being stretched out and had 3 full seasons in the minors.
If you consider Joba’s first 2 starts when he was being stretched out, his last start when he was injured, and the start this year against the Orioles when he got hit in the knee in the first inning, he has averaged nearly 6 innings per start. Pettitte averaged about 6 and a half.
Joba struggled on 5 days rest, too. Joba’s struggled in the first inning.
You guys can’t say in one breath that Joba’s struggles are related to him having too few innings in the minor leagues. And in the next breath say that he should be in the majors because he’s got nothing to learn down there. Serious disconnect there.
double posts: punch
pudge, cruz, hamilton, cook: punch
Saudia Arabia’s first baseman in the Little League WS is only the 15th girl to ever play in the tournament. She bunted for a base hit RBI today in their 5-3 victory over Venezuela.
You go girl!
Just because we have a big lead, doesn’t mean all is right in the world.
Joba is a big concern, one that needs to be straightened out.
People who are bashing AJ, the bullpen, Girardi etc. are just grasping at straws. However, Joba is a real concern.
Wang is second best fwiw
Why is nobody mentioning that Giambi was hitting .190 with Oakland and got released?
Dane Cook And Todd Cook: punch
anyone who likes Dane cook too
Uncle,
You’re right.
Out of sight, out of mind. I feel terrible about that one.
3 way light bulbs that are not… you know the rest
If it makes anyone feel better -
Boston fans were rooting for us to beat Texas. That means we did not help them out. Wins over Texas help Boston. We did not help them.
Mel,
No, what I’m saying is that this isn’t really the audience to ask for a sane and logical argument, especially after an ugly game.
It doesn’t take much for these people to turn on you.
But the truth of the matter is this; there is nobody else. Joba is it. So they have 5 weeks to get him right.
Joba can do it. He’s done it before. At this point, there is no other choice because nobody else in the system has the ability to do it.
I just don’t think Joba has the endurance at this point in his career.
He’s never pitched this much before. Has he? I don’t think so.
He’s a big dude and it takes a lot of energy to keep that motor running.
I hope he has enough to put it together before October but it has been a terrible month for him.
It’s too bad that Roger has more or less made himself persona non grata to the game because I really believe that he is one guy who could help Joba.
Roger had as much talent as anybody but still worked his butt off. Well then he injected his butt off but still I would think he could have been a guy that had Joba’s ear in learning to do what it takes to get ML hitters out.
Some people take postgame comments way too seriously.
If you are looking for an emotional catharsis and honest performance breakdown, you are going to be disappointed.
Cliches and saying something while telling you nothing has become the norm.
Nationals sign Livan
m Love CMW and is Bernie like quiet.
hope to see him again.
if someome post “Wang is gone”…PITF
Can’t believe people killing Joba.
Under the radar – ARod isn’t moving well to his left and not only couldn’t knock down, but even GET NEAR a couple of grounders on Joba’s watch. I was sitting right above him, and he is really having a hard time. I’m guessing he can’t properly accelerate off the surgeried hip just yet. Probably why they’ve tinkered with his plate stance as well, which is fine. But a healthy ARod makes those plays. I wonder if rest helps this or not. If so, he really needs a blow. As it stands, he is pretty immobile at 3B.
Joba didn’t pitch well, but I suspect Joba’s body is pretty confused right now. Even though the funky schedule is in place to protect him, he’s not really being allowed to get into any kind of rhythm. He worked s-o-o s-l-o-w-l-y tonight. I would like to see him given the ball again on Sunday, just to give him a more normal follow-up start. THEN maybe pull him back a bit. He needs to get back out there. It’d be one thing if he were a veteran pitcher, but he isn’t. He’s a kid who hasn’t pitched much. He may understand intellectually, but body-intuitively he is all crossed up.
The bunt?
It was ridiculous. Indefensible. It’s not like they were dealing with a stingy pitcher who could actually throw strikes or get people out. We gave the game away in that AB by Swisher. Gave it away. Swisher isn’t Molina or Gardner. And even they might have gotten something off Francisco, who was abominable.
Just a complete give away of a winnable game. Yes, it’s only one game, and in the long view, it’s not particularly relevant. But strictly speaking, the decision cost the Yankees a win. It was bad managing. Joe gets kudos for many decisions he’s made – not this one.
I can’t even believe it’s being debated, but I guess that’s what forums are for.
At least Feliz can’t pitch tomorrow. The sad news is, neither can Francisco.
is is his i’m a little riled up
oh btw Ben afflack and the duck: pitf
Joba is stubborn, out of shape, and does not have a high pitching IQ.
The sooner they trade him for Doc, the better.
I can buy not being sharp because his rhythms off. But we’ve seen this before. Right before the famous ASB/sabbatical.
So let’s say that’s the reason. Pitch him on regular rest until his innings limit is reached. Then roll the dice in the regular season.
Or just skip his starts. But the leads to irregular rest.
Circular argument. Grr.
Scor
August 26th, 2009 at 1:01 am
If it makes anyone feel better -
Boston fans were rooting for us to beat Texas. That means we did not help them out. Wins over Texas help Boston. We did not help them.
======
With all due respect, the Boston paranoia is wearing thin.
We’re the Yankees – remember them? Your Boston-centric take is the last consideration for me.
I don’t care about the psychology of Boston or their fans.
Scott August 26th, 2009 at 1:10 am
Joba is stubborn, out of shape, and does not have a high pitching IQ.
The sooner they trade him for Doc, the better.
————–
Yeah, let’s trade Hughes for Santana, too.
Glad someone who knows what they’re talking about is the GM and not you.
*roll the dice in the postseason.
Scott
August 26th, 2009 at 1:10 am
Joba is stubborn, out of shape, and does not have a high pitching IQ.
The sooner they trade him for Doc, the better.
====
Gosh Scott, pretty selfish of you to have kept these revelations to yourself until now.
You could have saved the Yankees all that effort and investment in Joba’s tutelage as a ML starter.
I’m sure they have no idea how debauched and character flawed he is. What I’d really like to know is, how’d you manage to get him on a scale?
Remember, if you ever get in trouble, throw a slider.
“Can’t believe people killing Joba.”
Why? I’ve defended Joba as much as anyone but he was bad tonight. If you take the ball, no excuses.
You don’t get a 4 run lead, walk guys and give up 7 two out runs in 4 innings and blame it on the third baseman and a bunt in the 9th inning.
His body is confused? What does that even mean. Girardi said he’s getting the ball on Sunday. Hopefully his body will be less confused by then.
You have to take the bad with the good when you develop young pitchers.
That’s just the way it is.
Phil Hughes made huge strides in 2007 and couldn’t have pitched worse than he did in 2008.
He came back this season and turned things around. Joba has the ability to do the same thing.
Well I’d rather them not have to roll the dice in the postseason.
Then again I saw Sean Chacon duel it out vs John Lackey so you never know.
I do feel Joba does pitch better when he has some extra motivation. It shouldn’t be that way but it is what it is with him at this point.
He’s still capable of pulling a diamond from his butt.
Can’t do anything but hope he feels he’s bottomed out (yet again) and puts a little run together. I just hope his body doesn’t fail him because that’s what it looks like to me.
The slider was troublesome.
Earlier, the Rangers were biting, which isn’t surprising, since they’re a swing happy team.
But they lightened up and started laying off, and he continued to throw it, and in 3-2 counts.
What I find amusing on this board is the school teacherish moral tone some are taking with this kid. What would you have him do? Maybe he should go to Cashman and tell him “I’m not really worthy – please send me to the minors.”
The Yankees have made a decision that Joba will be a starter-in-training. Maybe that’s because he has the stuff to make it worth their while. But if you think because he has great stuff and has had some success with it, that he is not going to struggle, then you should probably think again. Or perhaps the faint hearted, who can’t stand the arrogance of a 23 year old who dares to not get it in some of his starts, should switch to a team that has all veteran starters.
The lexicon of blame and the high moral tones just ring false. I am not sure what they have to do with baseball, Joba, or pitching.
August 26th, 2009 at 1:19 am
“Can’t believe people killing Joba.”
Why? I’ve defended Joba as much as anyone but he was bad tonight. If you take the ball, no excuses.
You don’t get a 4 run lead, walk guys and give up 7 two out runs in 4 innings and blame it on the third baseman and a bunt in the 9th inning.
His body is confused? What does that even mean. Girardi said he’s getting the ball on Sunday. Hopefully his body will be less confused by then.
====
Well, I guess I kind of can’t cotton to the melodrama of being either Joba’s Defender or Joba’s Assassin.
It’s all a little too Greek for me.
Apparently, sometimes you DO blow a 4-0 lead. We saw it happen tonight. Joba was bad tonight…umm…I would agree with that, I was there and he sure wasn’t good….your point?
For some reason, this forum is preoccupied with sort of sentimentalized cliches like “owning up” and “no excuses” and “accountability” and “mental toughness.”
This makes me laugh. We’re talking about a kid who’s learning how to pitch. He didn’t suck to ruin your night. Nor should you expect him to drag himself before you, his tail between his knees, and wail that he’s not worthy.
His body’s confused means he’s not on a regular schedule, which may be throwing him off and indeed, it could be not helping him build stamina, despite saving some bullets in his arm. That’s really all there is to it. No morality play here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
Joba needs to watch vision Quest
top ten sports movie
That’s right. When Phil Hughes was inneffective, he was pulled from the rotation. Funny how that doesn’t happen with Joba.
Again, many have postulated that Joba’s struggles have stemmed from the fact that Joba didn’t get to develop in the minors.
Well? Why shouldn’t he?
Halladay, Greinke, Cliff Lee, and many, many others have been demoted and looked how that worked out.
The frustrating part, is Joba has the tools and he’s not making the best use of them.
Walking guys when nobody’s on? Challenge them at least. If the ball’s put into play you at least have a chance for an out.
Hate to bring Phil into this discussion, but what’s he doing now? “Here’s what I got, if you beat me then you beat me. But I don’t think you can beat me.”
Where’s Joba’s killer instinct? It seems like he used to have it.
Joba is overrated.
Well, yes, he’s over rated, judging by the unrealistic standard he’s held to by naive baseball fans.
He blew 98 mph FBs by batters as a reliever for one inning at a time, and now he’s a bust because he’s on an awkward quest to find the parameters for a major league starter.
The problem with him being sent to the minors is that he sometimes looks like a polished veteran, even when his stuff isn’t there. We’ve seen him get himself into trouble and wriggle out of it. We’ve also seen him overwhelm and subdue good lineups in much more uneventful starts.
So there is some precedent for the Yankees making the assumption that he in starter material right now. If he continues on a course similar to what we saw tonight, however, I’m sure the Yankees will re-evaluate.
So Jobagate is running ahead of Buntgate as the scandal de la soirée?
I get your point Bodhi with all the mental masturbation that goes into critiquing Joba.
But it does seem at times that we’re dealing with a kid who isn’t learning how to pitch. Or maybe he’s just a real slow learner because he does fall into the same traps over and over again.
It’s just frustrating because he’s a talented pitcher and people have trouble understanding what it is that he’s doing wrong to get get so little results.
Personally, I just think it’s too hot and he’s too chunky and his body isn’t strong enough to keep it together.
Yes definitely a bizarre ending to a very winnable game.
Even if Swisher grounded into a double play ,of course assuming he hit it to the right side of the infield ,there would still have been a runner on 3rd 2 outs.
At that point who knows what Melky would have done?
I always cringe when I watch hitters who have no business bunting trying to lay one down.Yikes!
If Girardi called for a bunt then he should be held accountable.
We’ll see, in the wake of a game NY allowed to slip thru their fingers ,how Girardi responds or defends his or Swishers decision to bunt.UGH!
m August 26th, 2009 at 1:32 am
That’s right. When Phil Hughes was inneffective, he was pulled from the rotation. Funny how that doesn’t happen with Joba.
—————-
You can’t replace Joba when there’s nobody in the organization to replace him.
That’s why it’s not happening with Joba.
That’s also why all the “tough love” crap and the fire and brimstone stuff isn’t going to work when they don’t have anyone better to push him.
m, Joba is a starter on this team because he is and was the best choice for the job. Not because he found a golden ticket or unfairly won out in a sibling rivaly over Master Philip.
For better (I think) or for worse, Joba was brought up very early and the braintrust decided he had more to offer pitching in the big leagues than someone else would with Joba striking out hapless AAA hitters with his slider.
Despite all the trouble, Joba has contributed quite a bit this season. And they can afford to go through the growing pains because they went out and got CC and AJ and brought back Andy. The horses carry the team and Joba comes along.
I think the plan is working pretty well, myself.
And the fourth horse was supposed to be Wang. That’s the rotation slot that Phil should or should not be filling right now. Not Joba’s.
Hey Latham, if u r gonna rant, and all power to you, get the facts right. They traded Contreras (who should be on your list) 4 Loaiza.
Joba at this point is clueless.He’s got 5 more starts.
NY needs another servicable SP with 37 more games to go and the “big 3″ getting 21 starts divided up among them .11 games for other starters to fill.Who pitches Mitre and Gaudin ? Just be more swearing at the TV screen.
Where is Darrell Rasner when you need him ?
Joba’s always been a starter, so you can’t tell me that he doesn’t know how to get through a lineup.
Now getting through a major league lineup? That he may have a little trouble with. Perhaps, the catcher & pitching coach might know a thing or two?
Anyway, I’ll just say kudos to Joba for doing a good job while being thrust into a larger than expected role after Wang went down.
Despite what people think of Joba right now, there is nobody else.
I already know Mitre, Gaudin, Igawa, and anyone else they want to dig up from Scranton is not going to be a better option than Joba at this point.
At least Joba has shown the ability to get hitters out. He at least has a chance to perform well.
The rest of that ragtag crew do not.
Bod
No sentimentalizing. I don’t get real emotional about baseball. It’s how I survived being a Yankee fan in the 80s. I happen to like baseball, win or lose. Never bought into the anything less than a WS win is a failure either. To much enjoyment over the 162 + to believe that.
I don’t think Joba needs to be killed but he was bad tonight. Doesn’t mean I give up on him, doesn’t mean I expect him to be great every start. He just wasn’t good in this one.
Joba has been good and bad on regular rest and good and bad on extended rest. He’s good and bad because he’s still learning how to pitch. The “confused” body comment came off as a cop out. He said he didn’t make his pitches tonight. No cop outs necessary, turn the page.
When you are playing with 24 other guys, accountability isn’t about moralizing, it’s about being part of a team.
GF,
Haha. Nice try. We had 6th and 7th starters, but they had to fill in for Damaso & Bruney.
Granted the 6th starter would’ve struggled more than Joba. But that doesn’t help my argument any.
Who said he doesn’t know how to get through a major league lineup? We’ve all seen him do it on multiple occasions.
(apologies if there is a comment above that says he can’t get through a major league lineup)
Just got back and saw how the game ended…brutal. Just brutal. But, I think Pete is overreacting about the bunt. Yeah, in hindsight it was a bad decision, but if Swish had gotten that bunt down, which as a professional major league player he absolutely should have, then the Melky liner probably would have been a hit since the infield would be in and the Yanks would have won. Or Melky would have been just trying to get a flyball to tie it. I don’t think the bunt decision was bad at all, because having 1 out and the winning run at second is huge. I blame Swisher for not being able to get the bunt down, not Girardi for calling it.
Joba with a 4.34 ERA ain’t exactly what I’d call doing a “good job”.
Rasner had better stretches last yr with Triple A stuff.
Joba is way to full of the myth of Joba .
Don’t sleep on Igawa!
You know what his MLB ERA is?
6.66
It’s like having Lucifer himself in your bull pen.
Scary!
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....FCkKcL.jpg
m, none of the backups should have been starting ahead of Joba. Come on now.
If he can’t get it together between now and October, they could have a real problem. But in no way has he been so bad that he should have been sent down to Scranton or replaced by Aceves.
If you want to being up Halladay, Greinke, Cliff Lee, Liriano, Santana, etc, having been sent down in their early careers, fine, but please tell me what their numbers were when they were sent down. I think worse than Joba’s had been before this start and also after.
Matt, you should know that there is another commenter who also uses “Matt”. He’s a little unbalanced. I wouldn’t want you to get confused with him.
Bronx Jeers: 6.66. Nice. Now we know what Mitre is really shooting for?
just watched the end of the game. I did not like it.
Nick,
I made that comment in response to bodhi’s post about Joba learning the parameters of being a major league starter. I responded by saying that 1. he’s been a starter and 2. he might have trouble getting through a major league lineup (because of the whole he’s still learning to pitch excuse we keep seeing here).
If that’s not what bodhi meant, then the apologies are mine to give.
Bottom line is that we’ve heard every kind of excuse for Joba. And that’s disappointing. But I’ll try to be a little more patient.
It’s just frustrating because he’s a talented pitcher and people have trouble understanding what it is that he’s doing wrong to get get so little results.
Personally, I just think it’s too hot and he’s too chunky and his body isn’t strong enough to keep it together.
=========
Well, Bronx, as a fan body, we haven’t really been exposed to the seamy starter-in-training experience. Guess this is it! Pitchers are a strange species. If Mussina, a wizened veteran, was Mr. PMS if his routine was disrupted in the least. Everything had to be just so.
I think the fact that he’s talented is making matters worse for the fans. We have seen the abyss – tonight, for instance – and we have seen nirvana. And we want our nirvana!
Right now! (stamps foot). Every start! (stamps foot).
How many times has Joba been given a schedule jolt? He’s contending with that, and with trying to figure out how he turns having great stuff into actual consistent ML starting pitcher success. Could this possibly be contributing to the mis-steps we’re witnessing?
Maybe he was a little slack in his offseason training, or perhaps he doesn’t yet know how rigorous he needs to be to get ready for a full ML season. Remember: HE’S NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE.
Is he too chunky, as you say? I have no idea about that, or his workout habits, & it’s not my nature to speculate that he is or isn’t this or that in no uncertain terms. I do not have that information.
I do know he reportedly had a hitch in his delivery, and he seemed to have corrected it it over the break. Is it creeping back in? I would really like to sit down and brave my way back through each pitch I saw live tonight. If so, it wouldn’t be the first time an athlete discovered something, made a successful adjustment, and then had the faulty thing rear it’s ugly head again; it’s like the elusive golf swing.
For some reason, Joba is secure with his slider, and has a waning faith in his FB. Could it be physical? Could he feel unsupported throwing his heater from time to time, and then reluctant because of that? Does the support beneath him come and go, and with it, his trust in the pitch?
What I object to is the sort of finger wagging ASSUMPTION that he is just a brat who refuses to listen to anyone. Umm…people are complicated, and when I hear the junior psychologists on here, or WORSE, the fire and brimstone moralists, well I just can’t take these people seriously. Nothing they cry about can be verified by anyone, so what good are all these assumptions?
Probably why I was better off not posting here…oh, well. My point is: outside of drawing conclusions on what he’s throwing and what I think he should be throwing in a given game, I have no IDEA about the undocumentable aspects of Joba’s psyche.
I find it arrogant that others think they “get” him and what he does or doesn’t “deserve.” It’s all a bit too parental for me.
Nick,
You’re right, none of the back ups should HAVE to pitch in front of Joba.
He’s pitched well at times, and not so well at others. There’s just some disturbing trends (of regression) and there appears to be physical and conditioning issues.
I think Joba being a knucklehead and also having never thrown this many innings in a season are a couple likely reasons for the wide variance in his performances.
Like I said before, I think he should be savagely beaten with a sack full of AJ and we’ll be making progress on two fronts.
At this point we’re a 3 starter team and Cashman and Girardi have to be giving serious thought to starting CC game 1 & 4 for the first round.
Joba is not pitching well. Again. He seemed to pitch well when he got to go home for the all star break and when his name was in trade rumors for Doc, but once the deadline passed he went back to all the old bad habits that plagued him this entire season.
It’s time to stop making excuses for him. He is not doing his job. When you don’t do your job and you can’t be depended on and you appear not to be learning from your mistakes you get demoted, like Melky once did.
The silver lining is when the Yankees acted tough last season with Melky, Cano and Hughes to some extent, it has paid off this year.
I don’t think Joba needs to be brought into the principals offense for a lashing.
I think he needs to have it all taken away from him since that’s what he fears the most.
You cannot count on him in the post season right now.
You’d be sending him out there blindly hoping the crowd and occasion would inspire him.
Sometimes that works, but I’m not sure I’m willing to bet game 4 in any series on it. Would you?
I would not be shocked to see another starter find his way here before the waiver deadline.
And here’s the crazy part. In spite of all the troubles Joba’s having now, I would trust him to start a game in the postseason. And I think he’d do well.
what’s with the dissertations at 2:25 in the am. killin me.
m, we also heard lots of excuses for Phil Hughes. We’ll undoubtably hear more for him next season if/when he’s the rotation rookie. Sometimes the excuses are good ones, no?
With Joba, I think it’s a combo of being a knucklehead and never having paced himself through a full season, all in the cauldron of the AL East. I must be high on verde sauce, but I’m really not all that worried, or not yet anyway.
CC, AJ, Andy. I think our post-season rises or falls on their arms.
Uncle, people get fired up when two Yankee scandals come out of one game. Jobagate + Buntgate = restless LoHudders.
Thank goodness Jorge did well tonight or this blog might have exploded.
m August 26th, 2009 at 2:08 am
GF,
Haha. Nice try. We had 6th and 7th starters, but they had to fill in for Damaso & Bruney.
————-
That’s true. And the Yanks made the decision to keep two starters in the bullpen.
So they are going to have to live with that decision and do whatever it takes to get Joba right over the last 5 weeks of the regular season.
pat
August 26th, 2009 at 2:06 am
Bod
No sentimentalizing. I don’t get real emotional about baseball. It’s how I survived being a Yankee fan in the 80s. I happen to like baseball, win or lose. Never bought into the anything less than a WS win is a failure either. To much enjoyment over the 162 + to believe that.
I don’t think Joba needs to be killed but he was bad tonight. Doesn’t mean I give up on him, doesn’t mean I expect him to be great every start. He just wasn’t good in this one.
Joba has been good and bad on regular rest and good and bad on extended rest. He’s good and bad because he’s still learning how to pitch. The “confused” body comment came off as a cop out. He said he didn’t make his pitches tonight. No cop outs necessary, turn the page.
When you are playing with 24 other guys, accountability isn’t about moralizing, it’s about being part of a team.
====
It’s moralizing when a poster who doesn’t even play professional baseball, has no in to the clubhouse or the team, makes suppositions based on character. You and I are not among the 24 guys this kid is playing with.
As I’ve said, I have no idea why Joba has these stutter steps, I only know that young pitchers struggle. I actually find the struggling part as interesting as the mastery part, because like you, I enjoy baseball. I find it’s far more interesting to watch for in-game details than it is to pretend I’m Dr. Joyce Brothers when it comes to these guys.
BTW, are you the same pat on River Ave Blues? You have a sort of different personality or tone on that forum, if it’s you. I have enjoyed your posts there.
i need some wheat grass
Nick,
Come on. Nobody made excuses for Phil when he struggled this year. His own teammate chided him publicly.
The excuses in ’07 & ’08 were valid reasons. He’s had 3 freak injuries and for a power pitcher he needs his legs.
I’m not worried about Joba either. But I will admit I’m surprised that Joba hasn’t met the hype that preceded him. But that’s shame on me.
At least Joba has shown the ability to get hitters out. He at least has a chance to perform well.
===
Umm…yeah….removing all the sturm & drang, that’s why Joba is still in the rotation.
This is exactly why he’s being given the privilege of holding down a starter’s job. Not because he’s being indulged, or fussed over. He has shown the ability to get hitters out.
And, he’s being given a longer leash than a seasoned veteran to do that because, well, he’s not one. He’s a guy the Yankees think will be very important in their rotation, and Cash said the plan was to develop him, and Hughes, at the ML level, while we try to win.
Seems to be working, for the most part.
Meanwhile, the Jeter hits keep coming. I might have been too conservative. Slow down, Captain, September 7th is still a ways away.
Tonight was the first time I ever found out about the death of a Senator on Sportscenter. Ted Kennedy. RIP.
Don’t tell Jim Pir-One, he’ll tie it into the great Red Sox conspiracy somehow.
Nobody made excuses for Phil? Are we not counting comments made on this board?
He’s only 22! 22! 22!
I hope you don’t play favorites with your kids.
Bod
I don’t think I said anything about his character, just his ability to command a baseball.
Not the same pat on RAB but glad you enjoy their posts.
You’re right Bodhi.
We should be taking a more “agnostic” approach when trying to solve the riddle of Joba. It’s getting old and a bit boring.
Or at the very least we could end each grandiose comment with the blanket disclaimer “But I could be wrong, one never knows until the truth reveals itself”
But I still say he’s chunky.
This I base on the fact that he looks kind of fat when I see him on my television.
Although the do say the camera adds 10 pounds.
Uncle Ellsworth (#2 needs 18 to tie #4)
August 26th, 2009 at 2:35 am
i need some wheat grass
====
I just had some very fine sencha green tea for my shot of chlorophyl. But I think I’m going to sleep now.
Or better yet, I might try some remote viewing of Joba, to see if he’s out partying, or kneeling at his prie-dieu and reciting his act of contrition for last night’s sins.
Nick,
I don’t recall using age as an excuse. Please shoot me if I did.
And actually, I do play favorites. It’s only human nature.
Ask Pat m, there was very little support for Phil. Everyone else had decided he was a bust. Simply ignoring the fact that he had two injury filled seasons.
Bronx,
Whenever I look at his face, I swear I’m looking at Babe Ruth. Which could explain the chunkiness, if you think about it.
Of course, I can’t swear to it – even though I just did
Sweet dreams, all.
Joba will be good to go. He’s not challenging hitters because he’s focusing on location. Remember they are trying for October. Same thing with Burnett and CC. They are working on Pitching. When Burnett is frustrated it is because he sees his curveball failing, but Burnett is trying to battle through it because he’s experimenting on the mound. The Yankees are bringing art back to baseball. CC’s strikeouts are down because he doesn’t try to overpower people with his inside game. When it comes to baseball consistency is what wins. Ask Derek Jeter.
reason I thought it was you is they also spell it lower case p.
g’nite
I think there was a lot more support for Phil than you realize. Everyone else? No.
And “he’s only 22″ was one of the biggest running jokes on here since… ever.
IDK, Phil & Joba have been in the majors so long, that age is irrelevant at this point. If age and ability were deterrants they’d both be in Scranton.
Yikes, it’s late.
If age and/or struggles were deterrants they’d both be in Scranton.
I think we’re at an impasse, because I don’t know what your point is.
I think Joba and Phil were both where they should have been when the season started. Joba, at least, still is.
Goodnight.
“Age is irrelevant here, compare their #s through the first X number of starts.”
Go for it. Let me know what you find, but the numbers won’t be in Andy’s favor.
“Or just go with what what would universally be accepted. That Andy turned out to be a very good pitcher over his still ongoing career.”
Compare Andy’s entire career to Joba’s? Yea, I’d say Pettitte probably comes out on top in that 1.
my point is that I didn’t take that “he’s only 22 (23)” excuse serious for either pitcher. If you’re in the majors, then you should be a major league pitcher. Both are here, and doing relatively well, so age is not an excuse.
Joba’s struggles are not related to his age. Now, the big question is are his struggles related to his lack of experience in professional baseball? maybe. But Joba as a starter this season looks quite different from Joba as a starter last season. And THAT is the frustrating part.
But, I have to put it into some perspective. David Price, Rick Porcello, and Phil Hughes all struggled early as starters. Joba’s probably not any different in that regard.
no. 27,
Were you really trolled in the game thread?
Anyway. I forgot if you said starter or pitcher. If you said Joba was the best starter to come out of the Yankees system in the last 20 years, then I think it can be said that Pettitte and Wang were very, very good pitchers whom could possibly rate higher. If you said pitchers, then River, Pettitte, Wang would all rate higher.
Joba may have better stuff than Pettitte and Wang had. But Andy’s career has been defined by his championship years. And Wang was a bedrock for us in the lean times. Yes, a de facto ace.
Joba’s got his whole career ahead of him. Hope he even approaches what Andy’s Yankees career has been. Let the good times roll…
Joba was only in the rotation last season for about two months.
He never threw more than 100 pitches until the middle of June and his last start, coincidentally, was the first week of August against the Rangers.
Joba never had to go through the ups and downs of a full season last year.
About Papelbon: “He’s not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with,” Epstein said,
No, definitely not. He’s just another Mississippi State clown.
GF,
Why didn’t he throw more than 100 pitches until then? I don’t recall him being on a strict pitch count. But I do recall him not being very efficient. And they may have opted to cut him off at 5 innings or so.
Oh well, I’ve already admitted being too harsh on Joba, so I’ll stop now…
I said best young pitcher to come up with the Yankees. Pettitte was young when he came up. I’m pretty sure Wang and Rivera were at least 25.
Pettitte is really the only guy you can compare to Joba in terms of a young pitcher coming up and having good results. Joba’s results are better in almost everything other than he averages a little more than half inning less than Pettitte per start.
no. 27,
Okay, but was Pettitte a hard head?
Just kidding. Just kidding.
Mel,
He wasn’t allowed to throw 100+ pitches until his third start because of the way they were stretching him out since he had started the season in the pen.
His first outing was only a 50-60 pitch effort. They upped his total a bit more his second start.
He never threw more than 90 pitches until his third start against the Astros (on June 13th), ironically, the same weekend that Wang got hurt.
Joba’s last start of the season was August 4th – the night his shoulder went lame.
yeah pete, second guess the manager every day. you should be the manager. you know everything about baseball. biased hack.
take some more stabs at a-rod while you’re at it. are you angry becaase he gave you a stupid answer one time? or does that look of disgust on his face every time he sees your sad case of obesity waddle toward him in the locker room really get to you?
can the journal news please hire some one that knows what they’re doing? jesus pete, you are the worst sports writer out there, next to bill plaschke. bill. plaschke.
GF,
Ack! I thought you were talking about this season.
Yes, last season, he was on a very strict count.
This season, it was more self-inflicted. I meant that he hasn’t been terribly efficient this season.
mitre – check. gaudin – check. towers – you’re next!
Maybe Hirsh or Nova
Still have to the 31st to swing a deal.
Garland can’t be any worse than what we’ve been getting from the 4th and 5th starters
Stake Joba a 4-run lead and he’ll find a way to give it back and more by nibbling at the plate.
He has to be taught how to challenge hitters and only needs to look at what C.C. and Andy do with their starts.
Not impressed with Gaudin,either.
All NY needs right now from Joba is no more than 6innings 3 runs or in other words a QS.Is that to much to ask?
Still seething about last night and I think people who are accusing those of us who “second guessed” having Girardi ask Swisher to bunt are completely off base.
Forget for a moment what had already transpired during that inning … that the innings had taken a 10-5 laugher and put themselves in a position to win an incredible comeback … that they were rallying against a pitcher who was clearly shaken … that by simply looking at the YES cut aways you could see in their respective dugouts that the Rangers looked like they had already lost the game and the Yankees were poised to celebrate another comeback, walk-off victory … forget all of that …
It is 10-9 Rangers, runners on 1st and 2nd, no outs, bottom of the ninth. There are 3 reasons I can think of why you would bunt in that spot:
1) moving the tying run to 3rd base with 1 out
2) moving the winning run to 2nd base with 1 out
3) bunting the runners over to stay out the double play
None of those reasons make sense because …
1) the tying run is already in scoring position
2) you play to tie at home … thinking about winning the game before you have tied it is classic “over managing”
3) if you have so little faith in your hitter (Swisher) that he might kill the rally by hitting into a double play, then have someone else up hitting (i.e. Hinske)
This is not 2nd guessing because Girardi’s thinking with buning in that spot (especially stunting all the momemtum that had been building up to that point) was flawed.
Yes, Swisher’s execution was terrible, but I still maintain he never should have been asked to do it in the first place.
So Nick Swisher, he of the .240 average, is too good to be bunting in that situation? Are you insane?
He’s a major league player. He needs to be able to bunt when necessary. And yes, it was necessary. First and second, no outs, down a run at home.. you BUNT to set up an easy second and third, one out situation. Its a no brainer.
This is not on Girardi. It on Swisher. No excuse whatsoever for not laying one down there. Bunting is easy.
Listen, small ball is not dead just because the Yankees like 3 run homers. 3 run homers down win pennants in playoff games against top shelf pitchers. Haven’t you learned that yet? Have you watched the Angels trash us series after series? Guess why. They play the game correctly.
“So Nick Swisher, he of the .240 average, is too good to be bunting in that situation? Are you insane?”
So if another hitter like Jeter or A-Rod is up, you swing away? If so, then what is your point? Are you playing to manufacture the win or are you riding the momentum that had been built already during that inning and let it play out without giving the Rangers an out?
Joba says he “made good pitches” last night. Is he blind or just really dumb?? I’m sick of his post-game comments and attitude.
Bunting in that situation is the right thing to do, Swisher is a good bunter and had bunted before, and done it well this year. please you stay out of the double play if he gets it down. Stupid to blame Girardi for this one, it was teh right decision that wasn’t executed. Can’t always hit home runs have to figure out way to score runs in other ways, thats what killed these Yankees in the recent past in the post season, swinging for the fences.
Bunting in that situation is the right thing to do, Swisher is a good bunter and had bunted before, and done it well this year. please you stay out of the double play if he gets it down. Stupid to blame Girardi for this one, it was teh right decision that wasn’t executed. Can’t always hit home runs have to figure out way to score runs in other ways, thats what killed these Yankees in the recent past in the post season, swinging for the fences.
Disco Stu
I completely agree with your apt summation.
Overmanaging by Girardi ? Yes
For the record, I was a huge Joba fan when he came up — enough to buy the “Joba Rules” t-shirt that was available. But I gave that shirt away two months ago when I sensed a real problem with his attitude. It has not improved — good games or not after the All-Star break. He doesn’t listen; he doesn’t get it. I’m extremely disappointed in his immaturity as a person and now am getting angry at the waste of his talent. (I get a little bit worked up over my Yankees…I’ll admit it!)
Wish there were someone on the team that could help turn the kid around.
Terrible decision by Girardi. A reeling Francisco versus a guy who gets on base 37% of the time. Stats show you score more runs with 1st and 2nd no out than you do 2nd and 3rd 1 out.
Girardi simply got in the way of that rally. To give an out away when you have only 3 remaining is bad baseball. All they needed to do was tie the game. Not win it. Rangers burned through their pen. NYY still had Coke, Hughes, Rivera. Advantage Yanks. Girardi simply blew it.
“Can’t always hit home runs have to figure out way to score runs in other ways, thats what killed these Yankees in the recent past in the post season, swinging for the fences.”
Tony … with all due respect, I dont know what game you were watching last night. The one I was witness to saw the Yankees go from 10-5 to 10-9 in the span on 6 hitters who scored those 4 runs with 2 walks and 4 singles.
The momenturm of that inning occured because the Yankees DID play small ball … when A-Rod walks on a 3-2 pitch and kept the bat on his shoulder for the entire at bat, how can you possibly think that the Yankees were sitting back and waiting for the 3-run home run?
Bad decision followed by horrible execution. Swisher should have been given the chance to work a walk. Francisco was all over the place.
Joba is really struggling with his control. He was also the victim of several bloops and bleeders last night. It happens.
It was the right decision to bunt. 1st and 2nd – 0 outs your bunting unless its Tex/Arod or a hot Matz at the plate. If he hits into a double play they would be killing him for it today.
Fans: Didn’t anyone read the article that said Swisher bunted on his own. Girardi did not tell him to bunt.
The love for Joba on this board is overwhelming. I can hardly wait to send this entire blog to his Dad, Harlan. It should make a single father in a wheel chair so g.d. happy that Yankee fans think so highly of his only son. What you say, a little heavy with the sarcasm, you say? It can’t be worse than the mean, personal comments that have appeared on this board all day, night and this morning. Even AJ didn’t get this kind of love. Many you so called fans are tough.
Why can’t you just say he didn’t pitch well and the Yankees are still in FIRST place and move on. Let me summarize:
1. He is arrogant – Most successful people are. Example: SJ44.
2. He is not bright. Don’t know him personally to determine this complaint. Does anybody? Anybody? Do you know his SAT scores or his GPA at Nebraska?
3. He shakes off the catcher — all the time. Most pitchers do.
4. He nibbles — all the time. Hmm someone counts this?
5. He “is in love” (I hate that phrase) with his slider
6. He is a moron. I’ll give you an equally idiotic response: It takes one to know one.
7. He has a fat ass – most Americans do also. Except Tex. I saw him in his jeans on the Letterman show.
8. He whines and sulks on the mound. I have Never seen this. He doesn’t throw his arms up or make mean faces at his offense or even *gasp* at the catcher.
9. He needs to get slapped to get sense into his head. Any lawyer posting on this board will tell you that is not a viable option.
10. He should be traded. That’s a good one. Be sure to tell that to management when you are invited to their next personnel meeting.
That is just a small sample of what was said. I am too much of a lady to post the really bad comments. Now here is an easy question for you? How many of the 10 above items sound like SJ44?
SJ44, you maybe a savvy baseball person but you are mean and crass when someone disputes you. There I have said it. I know that some other brave posters have voiced that same complaint. Because of your knowledge and the respect given you for that you take it upon yourself to make pronouncements like Moses. And people fall for that. The next time you post negatives about Joba please mention that he wears the bill on his hat wrong and it affects his vision. I would bet the next day there will be 100 posts about his hat bill. Any takers? Any?
I really honestly believe you need to re-think your modus operendi. Stop being a cyber bully. Reality check.
Betsy: You did deserve the kick in the butt you received on the posts yesterday. You as SJ can be so full of yourself and I believe it was accelerated by your being on that radio show. All of sudden you knew it all. lol. Your bias againt Joba is going to eat you up. I can recognize it because I was the same about Phil last year. But I have come to respect Phil. I wish you could do that for Joba. When a pitcher is very good that same pitcher will be a good reliever also because of talent. Can you imagine AJ or CC in the pen. Lights out! Heaven help you if Phil doesn’t do well next year in the rotation and these lovable fans tear him a new one on this board. You will leap to his defense and find a way to blame Joba for it. Reality check.
I may get banned by Pete but I will stand by my statements and my right to speak it.
There are many good people on this board and you know who you are. Franco, you are one of those. CB, your posts are so educational and to the point.