Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Aug 26, 2009 
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The Yankees nearly came back on the Rangers after Joba Chamberlain left them in a hole. Ernie Palladino has the story.
Nick Swisher could not get a bunt down when it counted. This notebook also has an update on Hideki Matsui.
games like this happen.
my concern is joba.
he is cocky,arrogant & needs to be humbled.
lets try this again
joba needs to be humbled
Pete: is there any way to “single page” those story articles? For some reason they take a unbelieveable amount of time to load on my work browser and it would make life much simpler if I didn’t have to wait 15 minutes between paragraphs.
ps – CTRL clicking (opening the second page in a new tab/browser window) doesn’t help because the link is still the same and the framed content window only changes so I can’t just read page 1 while page 2 loads…
joba needs more than humbling… he needs to shut up and start listening. He cockiness and self-confidence are good, but without humility to temper it, you’re just an arse. He would do well to stop being one and start giving the coaches a chance to do their jobs and teach his sorry arse how to pitch.
Was thinking about this this morning but is there any other “Yesterdays” episodes besides the one about Joba or did they just create the show so that they could give him a sort of mini Yankeeography?
joba needs to shut up and start listening to coaches and players who know a thing or two about pitching and get over his bullpen stint and his love of his slider. His arrogance is dampening his talent.
Joba to the pen!! Ha!
Sunny what did Joba say? I was just talking to a friend about the fact that Joba should be told he isn’t allowed to shake. What ever Jorge puts down you have to throw. He’s been in the big leagues 2 years, Jorge 15. Jorge knows way more than Joba.
Also wfan played one quick clip of Swish saying half the fans left. What was the rest of that quote? They made it sound bad, I tend to believe there was a lot more said before and after. But that is what suited them.
his mechanics look off.especilly with men on
the thing that bothers me is he can pitch.you can see it.
hitters are laying off his 3-2 slider.
get ahead in the count,finish off with a fastball until you have to make an adjustment
“The plan is for him to pitch Sunday,” Girardi said, “and then we’ll plod along on his schedule.”
“plod”?
what uncharacteristic kind of negative thinking is that from girardi ?
maybe they should have signed a livan type pitcher and simply shut down joba and got a consistent 6.00 era they could count on from a veteran journeyman pitcher without the babying and high maintenance of joba at this point in his career.
sometimes it’s better to make the tough call and move on aggressively.
“plod”?
that’s a really bad mental image for a manager or a team to put in it’s head.
The 2 out runs killed the Yankee.Joba ‘s runs came then,and Gaudin’s too.Could this be a lack of focus?
I once heard a broadcaster say,3-2,2 outs was his favorite play.Last night proved it can hurt you really bad~
The loss still bothers me…….I hate to say that I would have preferred losing 10-5 because I love the never-say-die attitude of this team. Wow, this was painful……and to lose a game in the standings. Ouch.
Joe has done a terrific job overall this year, but its moves like last night that make me question him. Over the course of several short series, Joe is going to have to make similar calls – and this time he won’t have the cushion of the 162 game season to soften the blow if he makes a mistake. Who’s to say that Swish would have gotten the job done last night if allowed to swing away? Still, you can’t take the bat out of his hands, especially since he’s been hot. Overall, it’s still just one game and Joba and the pen are bigger issues…..but this was a tough, tough loss to take.
Okay. Joba said he didn’t do a good job. Joba said the bottom line was he didn’t throw strikes when he needed to. How does Joba need “humbling?”
I am as frustrated as anyone by his performance last night. And it is difficult to remain patient, since the expectations for him are so high (and maybe unrealistically so). But what exactly is he expected to do, besides acknowledging he did not do what he needed to do? I’m sure of everyone he is the most embarrassed and disheartened by his outing last night – I doubt he wants to lose; I doubt he wanted to give up 7 2-out runs.
Anyway, last night I expressed I had my doubts that he would ever be able to turn it around. That’s harsh and definitely a cry of frustration by me.
Jeter’s Edge…..lol. They did one on Alex, I think……but that’s it. Good point!
I agree with you bru. I really am tired of Joba at this point. Hes far from having accomplished anything in his career and needs to listen to those who actually have some experience. This egotistical behavior is partly the fans fault for building him up as being this amazing player. I am sure Posada gives it to him and I would hope Girardi is also. He needs to stop shaking him off because its clearly not working.
wow, plod? LOL I don’t think Joe meant anything by that, but that sounds pretty silly
I don’t think we can expect any productive outings from Joba in September.
Last night was worse than his last three starts, which sucked.
Joba is becoming the Yankees pitching version of Greg Jefferies … remember him? Remember how the Mets brass catered to that spoiled little brat and in the process ticked off just about every veteran on the team that had helped them win the ’86 World Series? They ended up winning nothing with him and in less than 5 years he was traded away to Kansas City.
I am not necessarily saying that Joba is acting like the baby that Jefferies was, but it is very alarming how the Yankees are going so bent-over-backwards for him. Yes, he is talented, but enough with kid-gloves treatment already … the mintue they pulled him from pitching every 5th day is when he began pitching like garbage.
Compared to when no one is one base to when there are men on base(usually coming with 2 outs), Jobber is like two completely different pitchers.
Dr. Jekyll and Mr Jobber scenario
I still believe he can be a very good starting pitcher, but I am concerned. Let’s see how this goes.
The sun did come out today.
How many pitchers who throw the ball 94-97 mph pitch backwards? Joba’s is not Jamie Moyer, or Mike Mussina, or some pitcher who relies on locaton to get outs. He needs to go back to the basics-Fastball, Fastball, Fastball, and use his slider less.
I’m glad we have a bunch of people who personally know Joba Chamberlain. Could you tell me what he have for breakfast this morning, while you’re at it?
I wish when it’s apparent a pitcher is,throwing more balls than strikes,loading the bases,using a lot of pitches to get out of an inning,and is easily being hit,Joe would move faster to relieve him.Some of the blame has to go to Joe’s bad game management.
Like Ortiz, Manny is lost without Steroids.
Dodgers lost again, and Manny has only produced 17 rbi since the Break. Doesn’t look like Manny opts-out this year.
im worried about joba too. but definitely not ahbout his attitude. the guy is young and talented and im sure he has an ego because of it, but i dont see that holding him back at all. usually, the great ones use that confidence to their advantage. i think what we’re seeing now is a kid who is having his rhythm thrown off and isnt dealing with it well. I woulda almost rather the yanks shut him down for a couple weeks and bring him back on a regular schedule. i just dont know how helpful an irratic joba will be in october…
in the words of kanye west: why cant they just let joba be great?!!
There clearly is a differnce between CC/Musina and other notables shaking off the catcher. Joba clearly is not at the point he should ever consider doing so.
There certainly is some thruth about the saying “the wrong pitch with conviction is generally better than the right pitch without conviction” I don’t believe thats arguable over the long haul. But in the case of a young kid learning he needs to decide he will throw every pitch with conviction. Give me a 17-9 season and under 4.00 era and throw what you want. Till then learn from those who know.
“Could you tell me what he have for breakfast this morning, while you’re at it?”
Sliders.
For all of his talent and potential, I’m just flat out tired of Joba. He’s an immature jackass that lacks the smarts to listen to veterans and coaches. He’s an arrogant showoff with a very thin, if even existent, resume. And Pete keeps defending him by pointing out that he’s only 23. I think that’s old enough to act like a professional.
I’m not saying they should trade him because he is talented, but the Yankees should stop catering to his immaturities and tell him to just shut up and pitch. Perhaps a stint in the minors would teach him something.
joba has to learn to throw all of his pitches for strikes & use the inside part of the plate a little.
i watched the game & his sliders would tail just off the plate.
i dont see anything inside at all wich will allow him to throw the slider or any other pitch over the plate & get away with it.
he seems like he is all arms,no legs
he has to set the hitters up better.
throwing inside once in a while will prevent batters from leaning over the plate giving joba more of the plate & keeping hitters honest
remember when he would throw inside to youk?
youk was affrid to lean over the plate one inch allowing joba to throw anyting right over the middle
Some of you guys are definitely being pretty harsh on Joba. He’s really frustrating, but there’s a lot of talent there. He may not be quite as confident as he acts; thus the nibbling. At least he took responsibility.
How is Joba being cocky and arrogant? Because he shakes off his catchers? To me, that’s just signs of Joba being uncomfortable at times on the mound, especially when there’s runners on base. Is it because he says in interviews he threw well even when he doesn’t? Because you can’t base what’s in a person’s head and heart based on what they say to the media. Mariano Rivera gets lauded by everyone for never letting tough blown saves or bad performances affect him. Sure, he has the reputation to get away with that now, but Mo has always been like that.
Joba has been frustrating to watch, but he’s still a 23 year old kid in his first full season starting who’s adjusting to the role. He has an innings limit and I’m sure it’s frustrating for him to skip starts. And don’t bring up the week long All-Star break. He got to go home to Nebraska, be with his family during that week. That’s a lot different from traveling with the team and just sitting on the bench every day for 10 days, meanwhile getting questions every day about how he’s being handled.
No one won megamillions last night. $325 million dollars, the dream is still alive.
Doreen
all of this jobamania stuff has gone to his head.
if it was earlier in the year i would send him down to aaa so he understands that it is privelage to play in the majors not a right.
Please don’t get me going on Manny.LAD are experiencing Manny being Manny.
He will zap the energy out of any team.They had chemistry while he was gone.Leading the division at times,by 7-9 games.
Now that he’s back he has been nothing without his juice.A friend of my coined a phrase for Manny.
“He’s no longer hanging loose,without his juice.”
Someone Else- What some of us are saying isn’t far-fetched. It’s not like we are just making the generalization because he’s young or what-not. I dont see anyone making the same analogy about Phil Hughes. Plenty of guys can be arrogant off the field and still be successful, but when it start affecting his play, thats when theres a difference.
To me it looks like he thinks he knows more than Posada, by thinking he should be throwing what he wants to throw. People may say what they want about Jorge, but he certainly has more knowledge about the game of baseball and the players in each league than the great Joba does.
No, Joba said “he made good pitches” — that is not taking responsiblity. That’s denial.
Tired of it.
I think we should have gave Tomko a chance.
Just a shot to see if he could start.
It could’ve hurt any more than meat-tray.
bru – like most people posting now, i think most of what youre saying is baseless. the real issue is joba is now on an erratic schedule and is pitching erratically as a result.
i didnt hear any of this ‘immature’ ‘overhyped’ ‘full of himself’ nonsense a couple weeks ago when he was our best starter.
Don’t get me wrong–I’m tired of it too. Just sayin’…
It’s like he’s hard-headed or something. I’m sure Eiland is telling him ‘you have to pitch off your FB’. Doesn’t look to be listening though.
Another thing, he needs to fix his mechanics with runners on. If I’m going by his minor league track record which isn’t much. All of 89 innings. He’s not a pitcher that walks a lot of batters. He was suppose to be a young flame thrower that knew where the ball was going, how to paint the black while throwing 96….
He’s been nothing like that this year. It’s walk after walk after walk. The velocity is there at times but the command is way off.
Oh please, dont blame the schedule. He has pitched fine before when hes been off of it (i.e the game after the ALl Star Break). He knows the days he is pitching well in advance, so he is able to prepare himself mentally for his start. It’s not as if it is out of the blue. Joba is pitching poorly plain and simple. Enough making excuses for him.
If your going to make these excuses, then make the one about him missing home and ship him back to Nebraska for a visit. Maybe he will wake up again and remember how to pitch.
Shame, with due respect to your opinion, I have to agree with bru. And if you’ve been paying attention, you’d know that the immature, overhyped, full of himself complaints have been long standing regardless of how he’s pitching. It’s just a little louder now since, as you pointed out, he’s been so erratic lately. But even when he was pitching well, he was still acting like a jerk and doing stupid things like shaking off Jorge.
Shame Spencer,
Joba showed his immaturity MONTHS ago. Perhaps you haven’t been paying attentiona very closely.
Ditmars,
Beat me to it.
“i didnt hear any of this ‘immature’ ‘overhyped’ ‘full of himself’ nonsense a couple weeks ago when he was our best starter.”
Shame … that was because a couple weeks ago the Yankees had him pitching every 5th day and allowing him to build momentum start-to-start.
There is tons to like about Joba, but there is also a lot that is concerning … not the least of which is how the Yankees treat him with a set of “rules” that no one else is given. I think it sets a bad precedent and creates the possibility of an environment where Joba is set aside from the rest of his teammates.
What is so bewildering is that they are limiting his innings for the regular season and bending over backwards to ensure it happens, yet once the post-season starts, all bets are off and he is supposedly going to pitch when Girardi tells him too … since when is a pitcher impervious to injury once the post season starts?
I don’t think shaking off a catcher is terrible. It can sometimes be done on purpose. The trouble with Joba is when he shakes off the catcher he becomes predictable.
Recently we have seen the Yankees being killed once they get two outs. Boston did this and now Texas is doing it. Something is going on with the pitching that others are catching on to. One game you can dismiss as just the way it falls sometimes. When it is done multiple times then you have to look for reasons for it.
Smoltz, it was being said, was tipping his pitches. While that may or may not be true, good organizations should be picking up on things such as that as soon or sooner than other, opposing clubs.
Shame Spencer
August 26th, 2009 at 9:47 am
bru – like most people posting now, i think most of what youre saying is baseless. the real issue is joba is now on an erratic schedule and is pitching erratically as a result.
i didnt hear any of this ‘immature’ ‘overhyped’ ‘full of himself’ nonsense a couple weeks ago when he was our best starter.
———————————————————
i dont know if i am right.
it just seems like he is stubborn & immature.
how do you explin his gem after the asb on extra rest.
listen i am no expert on anything but he is not as humble as hughes.
Joba is young and learning. Joba has a boatload of potential. He has talent. I think he is tough enough. He is also very human.
(Noting the diff between starting and releiving. Not the same planet.)
I believe he is being coached wrong. He could come out of the pen and throw heat. He now comes into a game so hung up mentally on 6+innings its killing him. He can throw mid and up ninties. That is the fastball you need to establish. Not the 91-92 he is trying to establish now.
I would rather get 5 innings of dominance than 6-7 of something lesser.I actually feel he would throw less pitches doing that. The endurance would come naturally over time. Hitters expecting 95 up fastballs are very vulnerable to a 91 fastball located well on the third and more at bat. Joba using his heat for 1-2 trips through the order will be far more effective I think. There is something to be said for burning off adrenaline and reducing fouled pitches. Jmho.
At this point, its just about getting through his last 5 starts of the year without him blowing up the A guys in the pen during his starts.
Its not about results because he’s never going to produce results insisting on doing it his way. That’s his problem.
Last night was classic Joba. First hitter in the game you could see it was going to be a disaster. Get ahead, throw 3 straight sliders in the dirt, shaking off Posada twice to do so, leadoff walk.
Give him a 4 run lead, he continues to be a slider first pitcher.
That’s why I said last night they should have pulled him after 2 innings. He doesn’t want to learn so, you just take him out of games before he kills you. As in his last start in Seattle, they waited to long and he imploded. Completely predictable, given the way he has pitched for most of the season.
Every guy who was on this team a year ago is a better player this season with one exception…..Joba.
He’s far and away the biggest disappointment on the team this season. The kid is getting nothing out of his talent because of his stubborness.
That’s why this isn’t a coaching problem, a catcher problem, a manager problem or a management problem. Its a Joba problem.
Its why he’s unreliable in the post-season and the Yankees have to do whatever they need to do to limit his post-season exposure.
Too much hype with little substance. You don’t win championships with guys like that.
Get through the next 5 starts and limit his exposure in the post-season.
The team is more important than his drama and his BS at this point.
I heard Joba’s wardrobe consists entirely of ‘Joba Rules’ t-shirts.
i suppose im just from a different generation of fans. i really dont care how my players behave, im sorry. if joba shook posada off for every pitch and still won the game i wouldnt care at all. i get the idea that he needs to be straightened out by someone in the organization, but if that hasnt happened yet (which according to most of the comments it has not) then it probably wont. the talk of benching him is just absurd, as is the idea that a change in routine doesnt or shouldnt effect a pitchers pyche. do i feel posada should smack him around a little and tell him to pitch what he’s told? sure.. but again, if it has happened it hasnt been forceful enough and if it hasnt then that falls on girardi.
Shame Spencer
joba has not looked good in most of his starts this year
joba shakes off is catcher & the results are bad.
he said it himself he has to trust his catcher more yet he shakes him off
Mgumpher, shaking off a catcher with 15 seasons when you’ve only got two as a pitcher is just dumb. You should know that just by watching Bull Durham. Although, I greatly admire your cynical attitude about doing it on purpose. Made me laugh, so thanks for that. And I do agree with you that it makes Joba even more predictable.
There are plenty of immature players. Nobody cares if they do their job.
again, i get what you guys are saying but why is this a joba problem and not an organization problem? if they cant discipline him and get him into shape then thats an issue of leadership in my view.
I have a question; does anyone think Joba is not pitching well,because he may be worrying about his innings limit? I know it may not be the reason he’s not pitching to our standards,but it must be a little bit troublesome to go into a game and be on an innings limit. It could be one of those problems why he is not pitching well… just thinking out loud.
“Every guy who was on this team a year ago is a better player this season with one exception…..Joba.
He’s far and away the biggest disappointment on the team this season. The kid is getting nothing out of his talent because of his stubborness.”
Chien-Ming Wang says hello.
I thought “plod” was an apt description of his start by Girardi. That’s what it is at this point. You just “plod” through them and move on.
Its a shame the kid doesn’t want to listen to anybody.
Hopefully, he spends this off-season getting in better shape and learning to listen to others.
If not, his time as a Yankee will be short.
This organization is not going to turn itself over to Joba Chamberlain.
If this BS keeps up, he will be somebody else’s problem sooner rather than later.
I hope that doesn’t happen. However, at some point, if he refuses to listen to anybody, its time to move on.
“Get ahead, throw 3 straight sliders in the dirt, shaking off Posada twice to do so, leadoff walk.”
That was one of the most frustrating AB for me even if it didn’t lead to a run. Borbon has the reputation of stealing. Make him hit a double rather than giving him one.
Yankees will just have to do what they do best this year,win the series!
Go Yankees.
I agree with SJ. Joe should have pulled him and given him something to really marinade over.
Similar to Melky last year. Sending him down was the very best tonic for him.
new thread
Shame Spencer
the problem is joba is constantly shaking posada off to bad results.
he is doing it his way & it is not working
Maybe he just does not have the amount of “intell” required.
Wang was hurt, he doesn’t count.
Its pretty sad to need a guy who is injured to keep you have from the title of “Least Improved Player” on the team.
Joba has been terrible for most of the season. He’s fortunate enough to have a team that scores a ton of runs and a bullpen to cover his innings.
Second in the league in walks. Fewest decisions of any pitcher in baseball history after 33 career starts. Fewest innings of almost every starter in the league who started the season in a teams rotation.
He has been more awful than good and anybody who has watched his starts objectively see that.
In terms of shaking off the catchers…..
When you have failed as much as he has he does it, why continue to do it? He doesn’t know how to pitch. If he did, you put up with it.
Since he doesn’t, why continue to do it?
Its not a coincidence that the 3 best starts he’s had all year has been when he shook off the catcher the fewest times.
Its wonderful to have hype, which he has in abundance.
I’m a substance guy. I could care less about substance.
I don’t want this guy anywhere near a post-season start because he can’t handle it and the team can’t put up with his BS in the post-season.
Fortunately, the ALDS schedule works out to where you only need 3 starters in the post-season. That’s a positive for the Yankees as long as Pettitte, CC and AJ stay healthy.
That’s the important thing right now. The health of those 3 guys.
Joba’s wants and needs go to the back burner.
in an exhausted thirsty whisper “Joba all we need is 6 innings of 3 run ball from you” Joba…Joba…Joba…are you listening ?
Um…..in case anybody missed it: Sox won and are now only 6 games out. I’m a little worried. They have such a cush sched the next few weeks and we have to go to the west coast.
Don’t order those World Series tickets just yet. Here come the 2 time World Champs of the last decade.
Joba reminds me of Dave Righetti to some extent.Righetti was the 1981 Rookie of the Year .He was awesome then in 1982 he started nibbling and walking batters so he was shipped out to Triple A to get his act together ,he came back a little wiser for it and then of course he became a very good SP only to be turned into a closer in 1984 by Yogi .
If Girardi put the bunt sign down which resulted in Swishers pop up the Lucy….we got a problem.
How confident are we about sending Joba to the mound during the post season? This fan is not as high on the idea as he once was.
SJ44 are you still there. This statement proves my point about yo ur posting. As usual my post is usually the last one so many people don’t see it. But I will post again if you are still here.
“I don’t want this guy anywhere near a post-season start because he can’t handle it and the team can’t put up with his BS in the post-season.” How arrogant is this post and why should you get away with it.