Runaway train, never coming back
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 05, 2009 
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With the Red Sox losing at Chicago, the Yankees now have a lead of 8.5 games in the East.
Meanwhile, the Angels will be facing Zack Greinke this evening. At the moment, they trail the Yankees by 6.5 games.
As for today’s game, it was a tedious affair as the Yankees walked seven and left 14 on base but lived to tell the tale. The force remained strong in young master Phil Hughes as he fanned three of the four batters he faced. His ERA of 1.11 is the lowest of any American League reliever with at least 40 innings.
“This might be as good as I’ve ever seen him,” Joba Chamberlain said of Hughes. “This is the pitcher everybody was talking about a few years ago. It’s great to see.”
I think that might be it for this evening. Time to finish the newspaper work and enjoy a night in Toronto. Check back for more tomorrow.
Huuuuuuuuuuuughes!
anybody know the Yankees bullpen ERA since the All-star break?
or the Sox bullpen ERA?
where can I find those types of stats?
just curious. thanks.
Hopefully young master Joba can learn a lesson or two from Phil.
WOW, didn’t really notice this, but, the Angels and Rangers are close in the AL West. I think I’d root for the Angels to miss the playoffs before I’d root the same fate for the Sox.
Nothing says October baseball like beating the Sux in the ALCS.
Go Yanks and Go Rangers!!
Somehow I find the notion that Chamberlain has the credentials to comment on Phil’s pitching just slightly self serving.
It will be a relief to see Joba go to Toronto during the off season as part of a package for Doc.
“It will be a relief to see Joba go to Toronto during the off season as part of a package for Doc.”
Yeah, that’s not in any way a shortsighted statement. If you hold your breath waiting for that trade this winter, you will probably suffocate.
Hughess might be better then Mariano
Joba is anything but a “young master” right now.
Backbench — totally agree. Why go to Joba to comment on the clearly superior pitcher right now?? Unless of course, they’re trying to point up the difference to Joba.
“Everybody knows that they are laying down for the Red Sox and Selig is paying the umpires extra to help the Red Sox win. It sure has helped them over the last two months.” – jim pir-one
gb7-
remember the good old days on the blog when you and i thought the each other defined crazy.
jim pir-one takes crazy to new heights.
he’s almost funny.
almost is the operative word.
What is the magic number? Is it down to 20?
I wouldn’t underestimate the impact those trade rumors to Toronto had on Joba — more so than going home for a break.
WHOOPS
“Everybody knows that they are laying down for the Red Sox and Selig is paying the umpires extra to help the Red Sox win. It sure has helped them over the last two months.”
gb7-
remember the good old days on the blog when you and i thought the each other defined crazy.
jim pir-one takes crazy to new heights.
he’s almost funny.
almost is the operative word.
Joba could learn a thing or two.
Magic number is 19
Jim:
Last warning. Post responsibly or you are out. I just had to delete a bunch of posts with crude language, crude sexual terms and your usual psychotic Red Sox nonsense.
Enough. If you have that much of a screw loose, go someplace else. I’m sick of babysitting the comments and especially sick of dealing with the same people over and over again.
Last chance. Either act like one of the normal people or your comments will have to be approved.
Thank you so much Pete
ESPN Insider:
“Yankees considering new stadium dimensions”
any truth to this?
(ie anyone have the story)
thank you.
2 wins away from matching last years total
ESPN Insider:
“Yankees considering new stadium dimensions”
any truth to this?
–
States they will look at it in the offseason but even if they change it, they might not do so for a couple of years as the team the yankees have now is built really well for the stadium on both sides of the ball.
The upcoming 10-game homestand should be a blast.
Listened the game today while painting the kitchen, with the windows open so the cicadas and occasional barking dog could join Sterling and Kay on the broadcast. What an enjoyable afternoon. What an enjoyable season.
Pete go enjoy the night, all is good in Yankeeland, Toronto is a great “Hang-out” city.
jerkface: thank you for the word
Joba has been a much better starter than Hughes. Joba has a couple of rough starts and people are quick to jump off the bandwagon. If I recall after Joba game against the tigers there were quotes from Hughes talking about Joba performance.
They kind of came up together along with Ian Kennedy which is why people get quotes from them about each others performances. It is not really a big deal.
If you wanna see the SAWX fans in panic mode,here you go.
http://www.nesn.com/2009/09/pa.....x-122.html
What a fan-gorgeous day! We had a bbq w/family at my house, game on in the house – so able to keep tabs along the way. Watching the encore now. Sweet that the Red Sox lost.
The force is strong WITH young Master Hughes. WITH, Peter, not IN : )
Talk is cheap on Joba’s part. He should be going to school on how to pitch by watching Hughes, Andy, and C.C.
NESN,COM is reporting Arod and Posada will be off Sunday?
In the article,Pettitte Yankees win again.
http://www.nesn.com
If the Yankees were to face the Rangers how confident would you be ?
magic # in the teens? the only thing that could be sweeter is the sox missing the playoffs.
wishful thinking but, the reasons are two-fold.
1. the sox can be scary (and who in the last thread had andy facing timmy in the alds?) in the postseason
2. the sox fanbase (sans dennis & ray) have become obnoxious and insufferable (even bill simmons says that)
i’m really impressed with arod and his up the middle contact hitting. it’ll be interesting to hear the actual mechanical changes he’s made as reporters start picking up on what he’s actually doing.
i guess he’s bought into a shorter more balanced hitting stroke that long has been pushing. he’s no longer what seemed like an automatic out with two strikes on him. very nice to see.
NESN,COM is reporting Arod and Posada will be off Sunday?
*********************************************
Kim Jones reported that on the pre-game show on YES.
Jeremy,
Pretty good. As good as you can feel about any postseason opponent as anythin could happen.
Better than facing the Sox, Angels, Tigers, or Rays.
Joba recognizes what he should be doing,give him props for that much.
He knows he’s letting himself,family,fellow teamates,Yankees org,and fans down. HE’S GOT IT!!
Runaway train… Wow, that’s a pretty huge dropoff from the usual Springsteen lyric, and that’s including the Winona Ryder factor.
Go California Golden Bears!
Turtle? No fear!
hey, randy l.
I wanted to thank you for your comment yesterday about not pitching with bad mechanics. There’s a saying in gymnastics, “Perfect practice makes perfect”. While pitching isn’t the same as doing a back tuck on the beam, good pitching mechanics is important, no?
And thank you for the running to flush the system story. It was very funny. I don’t think Joba has continued his partying ways. I tend to think he tries his best to behave like a choir boy during the season. Especially considering he was (most likely) read the riot act after his DUI.
Ok I know joba has been bad but now you people are ripping him for complimenting Hughes? That’s pretty absurd if you ask me.
Yeah, I don’t think it’s self-serving at all. The funny part about the quote is that Joba’s been the pitcher everyone’s talked about the last 2 years. I-R-O-N-Y.
Oski and I are among Joba’s last friends on LoHud.
Those people on the NESN site insulting Theo and Tito. Now, they’ve got problems
Patrick said in reply to bmor…
Don’t forget the “best farm system in baseball” to back it all up. Of course, that comes from ESPN, the people who told us the Yankees would NOT make the playoffs this year.
The above comment is funny. He’s angry at ESPN for propping up their prospects and insulting the Yankees.
i’m really impressed with arod and his up the middle contact hitting. it’ll be interesting to hear the actual mechanical changes he’s made as reporters start picking up on what he’s actually doing.
i guess he’s bought into a shorter more balanced hitting stroke that long has been pushing. he’s no longer what seemed like an automatic out with two strikes on him. very nice to see.
–
K. Long gave him a more pujols like stance. I guess it also includes Pujols clutch-i-tude. Looking forward to a great september and postseason from A-rod.
red sox are not a very good team when they are not playing in fenway. They need those cheap pop up doubles and homeruns off the monster to win games.
Yankees offense scores runs in any ballpark.
m, sox are not so scary this year. But yes, their fans are obnoxious and insufferable. I was very ‘light’ on them from 96 – 2001…I’m really going to rub it in when we get number 27…
Pete, thanks for the great coverage today.
http://dondep.home.comcast.net/~dondep/Gammons.jpg
and…Hinske is killing us in left. That’s 4 runs in two days because of him. I like having him off the bench, but he reminds me of Reggie (on a bad day) in right field…
m
September 5th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
Yeah, I don’t think it’s self-serving at all. The funny part about the quote is that Joba’s been the pitcher everyone’s talked about the last 2 years. I-R-O-N-Y.
————————————————————
I always saw that when they talked about one, they talked about the other. It was like they were Siamese Twins. They only thing that they really differentiated between them was health. Kennedy was always like the tag-along little brother. The talk was more like Chamberlain was more power arm and Hughes was more style and stuff. I still think that Kennedy ends up making a name for himself. It’s very possible that this aneurysm gave him problems in 2007 when they shut him down and continued in 2008. Whitey Ford dealt with that same thing for 2 years in ’64 and ’65, until he had a vein graft done.
Wow, some people here have nothing to complain about since the Yankees are playing so well that they resort to complaining about absurd things like Joba complimenting Hughes.
Grow up. It’s like some people put zero thought into grilling Joba before they say it. HELLO, he doesn’t go up to a reporter and say “hey, I want to comment on Phil Hughes’s pitching today”. I think it goes more like a reporter walking up to HIM and asking him what he thinks of the way Hughes has been pitching. What do you want him to say?? “no comment”??
Such fair-weather fans here. Joba has a few rough “starts” and he’s on the “must trade” list. Just stop, it’s so childish.
and GreenBeret7 brings a Whitey Ford story to the table…fokes, the bar has been set…
randy l.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
i’m really impressed with arod and his up the middle contact hitting. it’ll be interesting to hear the actual mechanical changes he’s made as reporters start picking up on what he’s actually doing.
i guess he’s bought into a shorter more balanced hitting stroke that long has been pushing. he’s no longer what seemed like an automatic out with two strikes on him. very nice to see.
————————————————————
It really seems to have started on that half swing bomb to center field in Anaheim, and he realized that he could reach any fence in any park. It’s not like he was always swinging for the fences as it was swinging to hit the ball hard. He’s so strong that normal contact is going to launch the ball a long way. No overswings, not as much guessing, and when he does guess wrong, he can still rip the ball into center and right center.
GB7,
lol. So the 3 Amigos still have a chance to ride off into the sunset, huh?
m
September 5th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
GB7,
lol. So the 3 Amigos still have a chance to ride off into the sunset, huh?
————————————————————
I don’t think that Kennedy is of the same talent level as the other two, but, I do think that he knows how to pitch. It’s not all “STUFF”. Nobody would have ever predicted Andy Pettitte of winning 230 plus games and more that 2100 strikeouts. a lot of teams missed on that one. Will Kennedy be another Pettitte or Mussina? I doubt it, but, I wouldn’t place money on it, either. The game that he pitched against Toronto in late 2007 against what was a very good hitting team, shows the talent that he has. Health is his biggest obstacle, now, along with maturity.
GB7,
Kennedy pitched against my team in his last season, so his reputation had preceded himself for me.
I’m sure that Ian won’t take things for granted the second time around.
He’s seen firsthand, too, how hard the other injured pitchers, esp. Phil have had to work hard to get back.
“K. Long gave him a more pujols like stance. I guess it also includes Pujols clutch-i-tude.”
it has to give arod lot more confidence in a clutch situation knowing with the new approach that he will likely make contact.
with his old swing it snowballed on him because he knew he had a low contact swing. it takes nerves of steel to let loose a swing that’s going to miss a lot. and arod doesn’t have nerves of steel. few do. maybe reggie back in the day.
he’ll hit even more homers i’ll bet too. great adjustment.
i’m expecting good things from him in the playoffs too.
m-
glad you liked the sweating the beers out story. there really was nothing clete hadn’t seen.
and you’re right perfect practice makes perfect. that’s why over-practicing is so bad. you learn to many bad habits.
whatever hughes is practicing, more yankees should do that. what a turn around.
haha, randy. I just think it’s a matter of Phil emulating Rivera. And he’s always had good mechanics (leading to good control). Seems like Robertson also has a good pitching motion. Both have picked up a few ticks since last season so they must be doing something right.
Greinke Kc-1 vs Laa-0 thru 5 innings
Contreas starts for Rockies at home Rockies 1-Ari-0
And there must be something to the mechanics/velocity/control thingy.
YES was talking about how Halladay, as an established starter, went all the way down to single A and they made over his mechanics. And now he’s the king of control.
I think what we’re seeing from Hughes is that success breeds confidence and he’s got a swagger about him that allows him to let it fly.
Not to mention this is a much easier role than being a starter and he was pitching very well in that role before he was sent to the pen.
This experience is only going to make him better when he goes back to the rotation next season.
But we’ll see how LoHudders feel about him when he inevitably struggles at some point next season.
“No overswings, not as much guessing, and when he does guess wrong, he can still rip the ball into center and right center.”
good point about less guessing. with his new swing he doesn’t have to get his pitch to put the ball in play . he is more likely to put whatever comes up there, as long as it’s in the zone, in play.
Joey A
Agreed on Sox over Angels. Yanks would pound the snot out of the Red Sox in a best-of-seven but the Angels have been notoriously tough for them.
GF,
Like Coney said, Phil is proud of his fastball.
Of course he won’t have a sub-1 ERA or whatever he’s pitching out of the bullpen as a starter.
Phil’s results as a starter were a mixed bag. But, in general, his better starts came when he was 1) healthy and 2) aggressive. I think we’ll see less “nibbling” from Phil 4.0.
You can see a big difference in Phil. Can you imagine any non-dynasty Yankee calling Mo “Old Man” on television?
I don’t care what our record is, I will always fear the Angels until we prove we can handle them.
You can see a big difference in Phil. Can you imagine any non-dynasty Yankee calling Mo “Old Man” on television?
How many of those non-dynasty Yankees get a chance to close though lol
Funny has anybody seen Vladimir Guerrero lately,he’s sporting a Manny hairdo,I almost didn’t recognize him.
After 6th KC-1 LAA-0
Greinke has a shut out going,La has out hit KC5-2 and didn’t score.
Greinke has shut out the Angels 7 straight innings,Yankees may gain another game in the home field race.
“But we’ll see how LoHudders feel about him when he inevitably struggles at some point next season.”
=============
the only question is how long it takes for the “Phil belongs in the bullpen” because he doesn’t have what it takes to be a starter nonsense.
7789 Thank you for your remarks. Everyone is too ready to let Joba walk the plank. Good to see someone with some insight into baseball and what the Yanks are trying to do. Also I would like to remind people that Phil has been in the Yankee system longer and his first season in the majors in 2 0 0 7 was not stellar.
***********************************************************
7789
September 5th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Joba has been a much better starter than Hughes. Joba has a couple of rough starts and people are quick to jump off the bandwagon. If I recall after Joba game against the tigers there were quotes from Hughes talking about Joba performance.
They kind of came up together along with Ian Kennedy which is why people get quotes from them about each others performances. It is not really a big deal.
*********************************************************
I’ll chime in with Hosannas on Alex hitting as well, That laundry line HR the other day was a thing of beauty. And the post season is coming up shortly. One point is that Jeter is going up the middle quite a bit also. I hope it’s catching, Teix has put up some awful flails in the last little while. He is another that is strong enough to put it out of any park, it’s like he’s caught the YS disease.
Is it a bad sign that the ‘year’s supply’ of beer on the St. Pauli Girl challenge from Catch It/Keep It would only last me about a month (if that)?
The Yankees are on a roll right now, I hope they can sustain their level of play in the ALDS and be able to take down Detroit. And do you guys agree that this experience will catapult Hughes’s career and allow him to become dominant in the rotation?
Jim Pir-one’s latest psychotic rant is currently ‘awaiting moderation’.
Keep an eye out, it’s probably a classic.
Just can’t resist re-posting the positive Joba stuff as lately there are so little it bears repeating. I love Joba!
************************************************************
DFOx
September 5th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
Wow, some people here have nothing to complain about since the Yankees are playing so well that they resort to complaining about absurd things like Joba complimenting Hughes.
Grow up. It’s like some people put zero thought into grilling Joba before they say it. HELLO, he doesn’t go up to a reporter and say “hey, I want to comment on Phil Hughes’s pitching today”. I think it goes more like a reporter walking up to HIM and asking him what he thinks of the way Hughes has been pitching. What do you want him to say?? “no comment”??
Such fair-weather fans here. Joba has a few rough “starts” and he’s on the “must trade” list. Just stop, it’s so childish.
*********************************************************
Whoa. 1st & 3rd, zero outs for Greinke.
Abreu-swinging K
Vlad-pop out to catcher
Can he get Hunter out?
Nope, a two out single.
Greinke at a 150 pitches.
after 121 pitches Greinke finally gave up 1 run to T Hunter,in the 8th inning.Greinke came out to the 8th inning with 106 pitches starting the 8th,wow,only 1 run.
All tied up 1-1
I was so happy to read positive stuff — correction: is not are.
Greinke is at 125 pitches,he gave up the run at 121.
Roddick.
And the Tigers tie it up in Tampa.
LACKEY thru 8 has only 89 total pitches.
That John Isner is clearly a Red Sox fan. His antics throughout the match were absolutely RedSockian.
Pumping his fists after every single point, like he’s good. I cant wait to see his next match to see him get demolished.
Roddick with the great effort again. Too bad
Sal G,
At one point after Phil was sent to the bull pen and began to “star” Yankee management said that they hoped Phil’s success would take the sting off the “Joba to the pen” remarks and just let him pitch.
Jerk – to end the discussion, there is much more to defense than UZR. The fifth best RF in the AL? So what? That does not make him great nor good nor part of a great OF. Look at all of his defensive stats, not just one you chose to take out of context to support your argument. Look at all of the defensive metrics to get an all-around picture of his defense. Not just one you take out of context and don’t fully understand.
Nice try, jerk.
Hughes touched 98 on the gun today, with his movement that’s downright scary!
KC can’t score runs for Grienke to save their lives.
That would be the primary reason why he could come up short in the Cy Young race.
Jim Pir-one’s latest psychotic rant is currently ‘awaiting moderation’.
Keep an eye out, it’s probably a classic.
—————-
I really do not care what is said in regards to myself by people I’ll never actually see…
but I should take offense to being called crazy, psychotic, etc. when there are people in this world like Phillip Garrido, Scott Petersen, and Brett Pedroia. Those are the real sick people.
All I do is rant about the Red Sox
What makes Soria so good? He doesn’t throw as hard as Bard.
That would be the primary reason why he could come up short in the Cy Young race.
——–
I’ve read and heard many in the media recently coming up with their reason why CC and Tex shouldnt get the awards.
Unlike previous years, it’s now said that Mauer “is clearly the best player, and the best player should get it.” As opposed to “you have to be on a winning team” when NYY are not involved.
Greinke is a “sure-fire bet to get the Cy” because he’s got the best ERA in the league. Again, winning team?
Honestly, personal awards dont matter to me, and surely dont matter to Tex and CC. I’m sure CC would rather redeem his postseason failures of the past.
My goodness – that is tough to read. Please take your paranoia pill and go to bed.
GF, when Phil has his ups and downs next year, people are going to say (people like Coney, who I love, but still) – well, we told you so – he should remain in the pen. I have no doubt that will go for folks on here, the majority of whom called Phil a bust and at best a #3 starter.
Going to the 10th
um. A generous called strike 3 ends the KC threat. Overtime.
Jim Pir-one September 5th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
I really do not care what is said in regards to myself by people I’ll never actually see…
but I should take offense to being called crazy, psychotic, etc. when there are people in this world like Phillip Garrido, Scott Petersen, and Brett Pedroia. Those are the real sick people.
All I do is rant about the Red Sox
———–
Your insane rants about the Red Sox are nutty enough that you provoked the author of his blog to give you one more chance to get a hold of yourself before he bans you.
It may not be a big deal to you, but nobody here wants to read that nonsense.
Betsy September 5th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
GF, when Phil has his ups and downs next year, people are going to say (people like Coney, who I love, but still) – well, we told you so – he should remain in the pen. I have no doubt that will go for folks on here, the majority of whom called Phil a bust and at best a #3 starter.
———-
They absolutely will. And look no further at the role reversals we’ve seen from Joba and Hughes over the past year.
Last September, hell, this past May, it was Joba who was still the Golden Boy and it was Hughes who couldn’t pitch at the big league level.
It doesn’t take much for some Yankee “fans” to turn on someone, which is why I’ve never had a high opinion of the fan base.
Giuseppe -
That’s fine. But that’s not my point. The people on here calling me psychotic and wishing strokes on me are obviously misguided, when criminals like the ones listed above exist.
I dont insult people on the blog, my posts are not really that farfetched. History says so. With things like the Black Sox to Tim Donaghy to past players betting on teams.
If one says that Pedro Martinez showed up with a chip on his shoulder with more effort against the Mets than against the Marlins, that would equate with saying Pedro tried harder against the Mets than the Marlins.
And that would be acceptable, because Pedro would want to get some measure of revenge on his former team.
In regards to players against the Red Sox and Yankees, I never said teams lay down against the Red Sox (which by the way is certainly possible given the corruptness of the Black Sox and many other corrupt events in sports history), my only point/concern is that far too many players give more effort against the Yankees than against the Red Sox.
And that is certainly reasonable, as many on the board have acknowledged that playing against the Yankees is many teams’ World Series.
I may the only person on here who think that Hughes should stay in the pen, i know…but do you think Cashman is going to saying he will be looking for a starter in the off season…please Cashman is way too smart for that…but lets wait until the off season….i will say it once again who is in the set up role next year that you trust….i say that statement over and over and everyone avoids it….i want names….We can sign a pitcher (Lackey) or trade for pitcher (Halladay) before we can find someone we can trust like we trust Hughes….We all love him striking out people now…remember how crazy some of you where on here when he was sent to the bullpen and not sent down to the minors….where would we be without him…who would be the set up man and closer when Mo is down?…We would had to trade for someone….I bet if you ask the team, Hughes is the MVP because he became that bridge and straighten the bullpen out…Leave him there he as the Force
Toronto didn’t hit a fair ball against the Franchise today. Not sure how our offense will do against the top pitchers our how our starting pitching will hold up in October, but the 8th and 9th in close games are locked down!
Giuseppe -
When SJ44 mentions that ESPN is biased in favor of the Red Sox and anti-Yankees, do you enjoy reading it?
When I mention something like that, it’s paranoia, etc.
ESPN said that the Rockies would be a greater comeback on the Dodgers when they were out 15 games on June 3 than the Yankees on Boston when they were down 14 on July 19.
The Yankees in 1978 had a month and half less to come back than the Rockies do this year. Yet, somehow ESPN manages to take away the credit from the NYY.
That’s not paranoia. that’s fact.
Re: Hughes
He is a starter, bottom line. I’m sure he’ll struggle next year at some point. But every young guy does. Greinke struggled this year for a stretch. It’s a matter of being put in positions to succeed for Hughes.
This year, Hughes has got the confidence and I hope that he gives up at least 1 run before the season is over to see him respond positively to it.
Hughes’ confidence is the key. He has got the stuff.
Same with Joba. If he had more confidence, he wouldnt be afraid to throw his fastball, and would be able to locate it better, and maybe even throw it on 3-2 counts.
To the 11th still KC-1 Angels-1
Um, the Black Sox scandal was about 90 years ago and has no relevance whatsoever to the situation at hand.
People hate the Yankees because they’re the Yankees. The Red Sox simply don’t have that kind of stature.
Never mind that the Red Sox are a pretty good ballclub and they can still beat anyone on a given day.
Failing against the Red Sox doesn’t mean the player(s) is/are lying down.
Lidge blows another
Black Sox scandal was about 90 years ago
———–
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
What about Tim Donaghy. Obviously, not all referees can be trusted.
The Red Sox are definitely a good ballclub. That’s why I am afraid of them. I did not say teams lay down against them.
Like you just said, people hate the Yankees. My only point is that some players seem to try harder against us than the them. And the worst is in key situations. The Playoff Angels are the best example of this. The Angels did not beat us because they were the better team each time and they did not lose to the Red Sox because the Red Sox were the better team each time.
Giuseppe -
When SJ44 mentions that ESPN is biased in favor of the Red Sox and anti-Yankees, do you enjoy reading it?
When I mention something like that, it’s paranoia, etc.
————-
Unlike you, SJ’s contributions to the blog aren’t limited to Red Sox paranoia.
And as I’ve told you a thousand times, who cares what anyone says about the Red Sox?
Right now, they are irrelevant in the AL East race and could miss the postseason altogether if they aren’t careful.
I rarely think about the Red Sox at all unless the Yanks are playing them. That tends to slow down the aging process and keeps my hair from turning gray.
Jim,
It would be in your best interest to stop with the Red Sox talk now.
We interupt this baseball blog to announce the score BYU 14 OU 13.
LA-2 KC-1 TOP OF THE 11TH
Giuseppe -
I think you’re right. I’ll stop with the Red Sox stuff. I hope this is not the case and I truly believe the Angels will win this year, but when the Angels lose AGAIN in the playoffs to them, maybe then you’ll see.
I’ll try providing to the blog, but I’m sure all I’ll get is “paranoia, psychotic, etc.”
I wonder if my Hughes post above is paranoid
I could criticize a part of Robbie’s game or Jorge’s game, but I’d get insulted for that too.
It’s called “Yankees lohud” for a reason Jim, Your contribution here is little to none.
Jim,
You’ve earned your reputation on this board – good or bad.
It’s up to you and you only to change people’s perception.
Since Jorge is getting the day off tomorrow and one would logically assume that he will have one of the games off on Monday. Does that mean Cisco will start a game either Sunday or Monday.
Rmel,
I don’t think Phil’s the mvp. Well, he may be this week’s mvp because he’s covering for mo, but not on the season.
Damon was (lol) quick to point out that the season turned when Phil went to the pen. True that he covered for an ineffective Bruney, but you could argue that Robertson could be the 8th inning guy.
But I do love Phil’s confidence right now. He’s such a badass.
And how great is it that Joe can go to Phil for 4 outs without all the questions? Remember how freaked out people would get when Joe T or Joe G would go to mo for 4? Jeezus, that’s what he’s there for.
I just hope Cashman finds another strong late-inning reliever over the offseason because I may go postal if the set-up guy struggles and we have to listen to another season of stupid “Joba or Hughes to the pen” arguments.
Giuseppe -
You’re right about the reputation, but you’re also wrong about it.
I have read this board for a long time, I came on to “rant” because I get angry at how the Red Sox get handed things and how they act like scumbags and the reputation that everyone has deemed of me is paranoid, etc.
I am not a spoiled NYY fan, and will never or rarely blame the team for its failures, but I have been angrier and angrier regarding the NYY, starting with 2001 Game 7. It was “supposed” to happen for the city because of 9/11.
I mean, the one single only time Mo actually commits an error, it costs us a World Series. What kind of luck is that?
Can anyone even remember when Mo last committed an error. Wouldnt be surprised if 2001 Game 7 was it.
unless that late-inning reliever was on the roster before Aug 31, it won’t matter because the Yanks won’t be able to put him on the post season teams. Whatever team the Yanks had before 31 Aug, is what they’ll bring to the post season. Good or bad. But I think they’ll have enough to go all the way.
I always thought an Ian Kennedy to the bullpen isn’t out of the Question, as a TEMPORARY thing.
But the bullpen is our strength and i’m sure Cashman will make it better next season.
sunny615 September 5th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
unless that late-inning reliever was on the roster before Aug 31, it won’t matter because the Yanks won’t be able to put him on the post season teams. Whatever team the Yanks had before 31 Aug, is what they’ll bring to the post season. Good or bad. But I think they’ll have enough to go all the way.
————
I’m talking about next year, when Hughes goes to the rotation.
That is Cashman’s #1 priority this winter— finding a legit solution to the 8th inning.
Can’t do it by committee again. Can’t bank on Bruney finding his control, Melancon being lights out, Coke being consistent etc.
jennifer,
We know for sure no Jorge tomorrow?
If so, then:
Sunday: Cervelli
Monday Game 1: Molina
Tuesday Game 2: Posada
GF, I’ve been guilty of reversing course somewhat on Joba – I still think he’s too stubborn for his own good. I just hope he he’s healthy – I can’t account for the diminished velocity. If he’s healthy and he applies himself, I can’t see why he would not be a top starter down the line. Both of these kids were victims of ridiculous expectations…..pitching is HARD.
I wish Pete would just ban this lunatic and get it over with.
You know it’s just a game jim, don’t you?
Contreras 6 2/3 IP, 1R, 8H, 8 Ks
Welcome to the NL!
What a joke.
If Robertson pitches like this he could handle the eighth.
Love how Phil called Mo “the old man” on his post-game interview.
He has the perfect demeanor for a closer (yes, I know)
TRENTON TAKES LEAD IN 12TH OF MUST GAME, 4-3.
Sac fly by Chris Malec scores Austin Krum.
Postseason hopes still alive. As they’re on the road, they’ll have to hold it. Too bad for them that Sanchez got promoted.
I still don’t like using our pitching depth to cover the major league bullpen.
Aceves would be my #6 and Mitre/Kennedy the #7/8 and would start out in Scranton.
I think Andy comes back. So CC/AJ/Andy/Joba/Hughes. We’ll need a solid starter to co-pilot with Hughes as he’ll be the one on IP limits next season.
But that EIG should be priority #1.
Let’s go Trenton (clap-clap, clap-clap-clap)!
Everybody now!
I wish Pete would just ban this lunatic and get it over with.
You know it’s just a game jim, don’t you?
———
What is wrong with you? Lunatic? I havent even said one inappropriate thing. Get a grip!
Love “the old man” comment by Hughes. Priceless!
Loved the Robertson vs. Bahhrd comparison by Pete the other day.
If we keep developing great young arms & they fly under the radar, it’s fine with me.
If he cuts down the walks, you’re looking at Yuuse 2.0
I just hope Cashman finds another strong late-inning reliever over the offseason because I may go postal if the set-up guy struggles and we have to listen to another season of stupid “Joba or Hughes to the pen” arguments.
—-
Giuseppe, who is out there that you would rather have then Hughes…Name some names…We have gone 9 years without a reliable set up man…We had guys with the names of Karsay, Farsworh,Quantrill, Hawkins…the best one might have been Tom Gordon and he last only 2 season….Please give me the name or names you feel comfortable with setting up for Mo next year….i will say it again April 15, 2010 Fenway Park, Yanks wining 2-1 its the 8th inning who are you bringing in….Names!!!!!
Why doesnt Robertson get more attention from other teams?
His strikeout numbers are absurd. I’m not saying I want this, but I wonder what he could be spun for in the offseason.
You’ve said an incredible amount of inappropriate things already.
I was reacting to your presence.
However as it stands you haven’t said anything too anti-Boston insane so I’ll hold my tongue.
But you need to realize, nobody cares THAT much. It’s a game.
Brad Lidge blew his 10th save tonight.
10.
Imagine how far ahead they’d be if he was at least close to last year.
Not to mention how lucky we are.
Rmel,
Don’t look at Phil’s fastball. It’s too mesmerizing.
Don’t you want to see how Phil will do as a starter after enjoying such success out of the bullpen?
I’d rather see 8 shutout innings against Texas than 3-4 one inning appearances.
RMEL -
Maybe Putz will be bought out by the Mets. 9.5 million for next year seems a bit much for a set up guy.
But what would you rather have? Hughes the Ace starter starting that game or Hughes the eighth inning guy pitching…the eighth inning.
Hughes the starter please.
If Robertson keeps this up, he’ll be the eighth inning guy.
Wait til the ALDS -
It’s a game to some, but not to others. If you knew my background, you’d understand. I do care THAT much.
…But you shouldn’t.
It’s a game.
“We do not have to visit a madhouse (or jails) to find disordered minds; our planet is the mental institution of the universe.”
Von Goethe
I just saw a replay of Wakefield trying to run to cover 1st. He should not be playing
Robertson could e pitching in some very key spots this postseason.
Joe is going to force Bruney back into the “circle of trust”, but with a shorter leash.
Today – 2 outs, walk, gone.
Texeira trying to lock it down for Trenton bottom 12th. 2 outs, nobody on.
Nice piece by Tim Kurjian on Derek Jeter….ESPN…….Young Master Hughes has grown up this season…..Shame he lost the better parts of his forst 2 seasons…..However he’ll be much better for those setbacks…..Don’t count out Ian Kennedy in 2010….He’s going to come back and surprise all the doubters….
A lot of you are just simply out of it….Ian Kennedy as the set up man….I hope that was a joke….and i love D-Rob, I really do…until he establish his control he is a 6th or 7th inning pitcher…i think Joe realizes that….Mo is going to be 40 year old next year and the last year of a contract…Who should be get, Huston Street…Come on people wake up…If that win the World Series and Hughes is a major player in it…the players on the team would be in revolt if they moved Hughes from that spot…Wait until the off season and see what Cash up his sleeves…
Agreed, Wakefield can’t cover the field.
He shouldn’t be pitching, but BOS is desperate.
The vaunted “deep” pitching, was a trumped up fallacy.
The emperor has no starters…
Rmel,
Seriously, Hughes’ talent would be wasted as the EIG. A closer, I could see, but not a setup man.
In the books, Trenton wins. Have to win Sunday and Monday as well to make postseason.
m
I am just going by what someone posted here. Someone said on the pregame that Kim said that both Jorge and Alex are off tomorrow.
Magic number ?
http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/im.....78584x.jpg
Kennedy for setup man next year
Bronx.
Nice.
I too am looking forward to seeing a rejuvenated IPK. Will be checking his AFL outings.
“Hughes touched 98 on the gun today, with his movement that’s downright scary!”
not that it matters but Hughes did not touch 98 today…the YES gun is totally wrong
today he averaged 95.07 and his max mph was 96.00
It would be wasted as a closer as well.
He has the talent to be a starter and he’s young. Use him.
Watched some of Rays – Tigers tonight.
Rays are done.
Bullpen is terrible.
The Kazmir deal looks like it really was the white flag.
Trenton to the playoffs.
They’re going. It is ON.
Thanks, jennifer.
Relief Pitchers
Danys Baez BAL
Joaquin Benoit TEX
Rafael Betancourt * CLE
Chad Bradford BAL
Doug Brocail * HOU
Kiko Calero FLA
Octavio Dotel CWS
Ryan Franklin * STL
Gary Glover WAS
Mike Gonzalez ATL
Tom Gordon ARZ
John Grabow CHC
Kevin Gregg CHC
LaTroy Hawkins HOU
Matt Herges COL
Trevor Hoffman MIL
Jason Isringhausen TB
Masahide Kobayashi * CLE
Brandon Lyon DET
Ron Mahay MIN
Gary Majewski WAS
Trever Miller STL
Darren Oliver LAA
Troy Percival TB
J.J. Putz * NYM
Fernando Rodney DET
Duaner Sanchez NYM
Scott Schoeneweis ARZ
Rafael Soriano ATL
Matt Thornton * CWS
Jose Valverde HOU
Luis Vizcaino * COL
Billy Wagner BOS
Jamie Walker BAL
====================================
Ugh. Someone mentioned Gonzalez/Soriano. I don’t think I could handle that rocking motion of Gonzalez.
Hey, think Hoffman will want to setup mo?
Kennedy will be given every opportunity to lock up that 5th starter role.
L,
No Andy?
Some of you just look at stats and say late relief is not that important….I live in Princeton and watch a lot of Phillies games and see how a guy like Lidge can stink the place up….you think, hey when Mo lives no big deal we will find someone….you will find someone but can they handle the NYC pressure…Hughes has already establish that…We can find starting pitchers…Pitchers we don’t have to baby with inning limit like Hughes would have next year….Sign Lackey…pitched a nice game tonight…4 year 60 million keep Hughes in the pen…don’t have to worry about innings limit…Remember we have money coming off the books
If Andy doesn’t come back, yes.
Otherwise, he’s the #6/waiting in the wings (Mitre role)
The yanks need to trade for someone like a Huston Street or a Heath Bell for example. A pitcher that can be a 8th inning guy and can also has experience as a closer. Because Rivera is getting old next year you might not want to push him and pitch him 3 days in a row.
Aceves belongs in the bullpen he is the 2009 version of Ramiro Mendoza. He is very valuable because he can pitch multiple innings out of the pen in close games.
Next year rotation is probably going to be
Sabathia
Burnett
Pettitte
Chamberlain
Hughes
With Kennedy as the 6th starter in scranton.
The thing is, late relief is NOT killing the Phillies…they’re in first place and they are a very good team.
I’m not saying that it’s not important, just that starting pitching is MORE important.
Rmel,
Why not Joba as the setup guy? He’s proven he can handle the job.
Look at the MLB network comparison – ’96 Mo vs. ’09 Yuuuse.
Holy crap – Phil has better #s
1.11 vs. 1.71 ERA
12 Ks per 9 vs. 10 K’s per 9
3 saves vs. 2
Mlbnetwork thinks Phil is throwing 91-93 lol
Far less IP, no?
Aceves>IPK and Aceves doesn’t belong in the pen. He’s too efficient, lol.
Pat M, Kennedy could have really helped us this year. Of course, not the Kennedy that was so poor last year…..I think he’s basically a good kid who got overwhelmed, so I’m rooting for him to do well. Yep, it sucks that Phil lost those two years, but I agree about adversity toughening him up.
RMEL, no one is saying IPK will be an 8th inning guy…..and who cares if the players would be in revolt when Phil gets moved back to the rotation? They won’t, but even if they did, that’s their problem. Players may only see THEIR particular futures and how Phil’s role affects them (in other words that maybe he’d be more dominant immediately in the pen), but the Yankees organization will march on when these players are gone and it’s their future that they have to think about. I really don’t know why there is any debate about the value of an ace starter over a closer…..I just assume folks have no faith in Phil developing into an ace – they are afraid he will turn into a #3 or #4 without even giving him a chance.
I don’t think they mentioned it, but you’re probably right.
Didn’t Mo have 100?
What is Hughes’ total?
Does anyone else feel like that Joba has no sense of urgency? Its like the Yankees have annointed him as this untouchable phenom and he’s just too comfortable. Hughes has struggled and been sent to Trenton because of it in the past. They wouldn’t even think about sending Joba anywhere.
I think they have babied him way too much and he’s starting to lose his edge along with his fastball. Personally I’m sick of seeing him go out there and stink and then listen to him and everyone else act like its all part of some master plan.
The guy is 23 and this is his third season in the big leagues, its time to either start showing us why he’s so special or for them to stop treating him like he is.
Relief Pitchers
Danys Baez BAL
Joaquin Benoit TEX
Rafael Betancourt * CLE
Chad Bradford BAL
Doug Brocail * HOU
Kiko Calero FLA
Octavio Dotel CWS
Ryan Franklin * STL
Gary Glover WAS
Mike Gonzalez ATL
Tom Gordon ARZ
John Grabow CHC
Kevin Gregg CHC
LaTroy Hawkins HOU
Matt Herges COL
Trevor Hoffman MIL
Jason Isringhausen TB
Masahide Kobayashi * CLE
Brandon Lyon DET
Ron Mahay MIN
Gary Majewski WAS
Trever Miller STL
Darren Oliver LAA
Troy Percival TB
J.J. Putz * NYM
Fernando Rodney DET
Duaner Sanchez NYM
Scott Schoeneweis ARZ
Rafael Soriano ATL
Matt Thornton * CWS
Jose Valverde HOU
Luis Vizcaino * COL
Billy Wagner BOS
Jamie Walker BAL
—-
Im so excitied with these names…it makes me want to move Hughes into the rotation next year…im so confident with this list..Rafael Soriano or Fernando Rodney would be perfect or maybe we can rekindle old memories of Gordon and Hawkins….DEAR GOD ….Ill say it again if this blog was around in 1996 you all would want to move Mo into the rotation in 1997…i could hear it now…he pitched 107 innings in ’96 the yankees could have him pitch 160 in ’97…we have a closer his name is John Wettland….oh the joy it might have been
Young Joba would be good to take some advice or two from Master Hughes.
I wonder if Joba and Hughes can flourish only in the pen o_O
RalphieD (OPPC)
September 5th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
not that it matters but Hughes did not touch 98 today…the YES gun is totally wrong
today he averaged 95.07 and his max mph was 96.00
———————————–
Yeah YES really needs to fix its radar gun. It gets annoying especially when Kay starts reading off the gun to see if Joba or some other pitcher is throwing hard.
What’s wrong with Rodney as setup man?
Mariano Rivera was a man who never had the minor league sucess as a strter that Joba had. He also has one pitch.
Joba, when he’s on, has several and has had far more minor league sucess as a starter. The two situations are totally different.
blake,
lol. Watch out, them’s fighting words ’round these parts.
I do think, though, that the Yankees have adjusted the plan so capriciously. Like they should’ve picked a plan and stuck to it. Let Joba adjust to the plan, instead of adjusting to Joba on the fly. Give him some reps to see if he could be consistent and improve.
Jim Pir-one
September 5th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
“There is no great genius without some touch of madness.”
-Seneca
======
“Genius is not a gift, but a way out one invents in desperate cases.”
-Sartre
EY
September 5th, 2009 at 11:01 pm
Young Joba would be good to take some advice or two from Master Hughes.
I wonder if Joba and Hughes can flourish only in the pen o_O
——————————————
What advice would Hughes give Joba? Joba already mastered pitching 1 inning and has been the better starter of the two.
When Phil was a Senior at Foothills HS, he was hitting 94-95 ….This was pretty much the across the board readings by all the scouts that were watching him…I recall during a Connie Mack game the summer before his senior year, he was clocked at 97 ….He’s going to be a very special pitcher, and that time is growing close…..
L to the 2nd
September 5th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
I don’t think they mentioned it, but you’re probably right.
Didn’t Mo have 100?
What is Hughes’ total?
————————————————————
Rivera also pitched in 107.2 innings in 1996 (130 strikeouts). Rivera is a freak of nature. Hughes is not going to get near 100 innings in relief this year.
a few things 1st Huston Street or a Heath Bell …well Street has a bum arm and Bell as never pitched in a pressure gane in his life…just what we need other Padres pitcher (see jay witasick, he was going to answer our problems in 2001) 2nd lets see how far the Phillies make it in the playoffs with Lidge….3rd Betsy, chemistry is a big reason we where we are now…why would you want to upset players and remove a piece of a winning formula…the Yankees are 38 games over 500 with Hughes in the pen…not in the rotation…if its not broken don’t try to fix it….
m,
I think its more Joba’s attitude that irritates me more than anything else. He just seems too comfortable, like he’s got a job no matter what happens. I just don’t like Joba as a starter anymore. I don’t think he has he mentality or stamina to ever be a great starter and if thats the case then why not let him try what he was great at again (relieving). I don’t know if he’s hurt or what but if he’s goin to continue to throw 91 MPH fastballs with no movement then he’s a career 4th or 5th big league starter, because he’s certainly not going to get by nibbling the corners..
GB
It would’ve been interesting to see the comparison had Hughes set up all year.
It also plays into Joe Torre’s vs. Joe Girardi’s treatment of pitchers.
There will never be another Mo – but Hughes’ performance this year in a role he was suddenly thrust into is a real eye opener.
Rmel,
We’re not talking about taking Phil out of the pen this season. We’re talking next season, so this season’s chemistry and record aren’t germaine to the conversation.
But I agree with you. There are very few players I would trust more than Phil in the role he’s currently in.
Bruney, Marte and Coke will most likely move around in the 7th and 8th innings, depending on the batters, next year. He came into camp in great shape this year (dropped close to 30-35 pounds over the winter. Look at his first 12 games (before the injury). That work showed in the numbers. First game was bad, and then 11 straight (10 innings) of 2 hits, 1 runs, 0 walks and 13 strikeouts. It took him a long time to get back and he has only shown flashes of the same 1st month. He deserves and has earned a crack at the 8th inning next year.
As I said, it’s likely that he, Coke and Marte split the last two innings and Robertson and possibly Melancon getting work in the 7th and perhaps a few 8th innings. NYY isn’t going to go out and sign a closer to set up.
GB7,
Will Bruney still be under our control? I don’t know what his contract/status is.
But at some point, can’t you see the Yankees parting ways with him? Feels like he’s been here forever…
The experience that Phil’s getting from the setup role should give him huge confidence going into 2010 as a starter – attack, trust your stuff.
I’m not about to give up on Joba until he gets into a regular pitching routine and the “Joba rules” are finally tossed.
Rafael Soriano, Mike Gonzalez-Other than Mike Stanton, any pitcher the Braves have not resigned, that we did, has not panned out in the last 13-14 years. Chris Hammond, Jared Wright, Kyle Farnsworth.
Joba should be put in the pen ASAP. See if he can regain his confidence and velocity. If so, maybe he can help if we get past the 1st 5 game series. To be quite frank, unless AJ gets a 3rd pitch, he’s no lock as a #2.
Bruney, Marte and Coke….do you really trust them…there is a good chance that Bruney might not be tender a contract next year….Melancon has not showed me anything yet in the short time he has been he….D-Rob i think is going to be way better then him…
this is my staff next year
CC
AJ
Andy
Joba
?????? (Lackey, Halladay…maybe trade for Josh Johnson who is due for a big raise)
Pen
Mo
Hughes
D-Rob
Ace
Marte
Coke
Melancon/Dunn/Bruney/Gaudin
September 5th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
GB7,
Will Bruney still be under our control? I don’t know what his contract/status is.
But at some point, can’t you see the Yankees parting ways with him? Feels like he’s been here forever…
————————————————————
Yeah, his contract is up, but, he’ll only have 4 years of service time. I would think that NYY will talk contract or go to arbitration with him. He’s at 1.25 mil, now.
Hughes will start next season. You don’t keep a guy with Cy Young potential as a setup man no matter how good he is at it.
Cash is not going after Lackey.
Still don’t think TOR will trade Halladay within the division, which means 2011
Josh Johnson – interesting. How much longer is he tied to the Marlins?
NYY isn’t likely to keep Gaudin. He’s arbitration eligible and, unless he accepts the same contract he has now, he’ll be job hunting. They’ll have Mitre in the system and I’d take him over Gaudin.
“Hughes touched 98 on the gun today, with his movement that’s downright scary!”
‘not that it matters but Hughes did not touch 98 today…the YES gun is totally wrong
today he averaged 95.07 and his max mph was 96.00′
Not that it matters but how do you pretend to know this for a fact?
When do the IL playoffs end?
Wouldn’t hurt to bring up a few more position players.
I wish the Yanks wouldn’t try to turn Hughes into a starter. I would love tokeep him as a setup man (the ’96 Mariano role) and then transition him into a closer in a few years. I felt so confident with him closing the game today.
Hughes IS a starter.
Always has been – just as Joba.
Josh Johnson – interesting. How much longer is he tied to the Marlins?
—-
he has 2 years left and is due to make 5 million next season…i would offer Montero and Z-Mac and see if they would bite
Mariano was always a starter up until ’96. However his skills were better used elsewhere.
The difference with Mo is that in ’95 he was, at best, a so-so starter. Then someone had this crazy idea as a short reliever, which then evolved into the EIG for Wetteland.
Highes has been a top prospect as a starting pitcher since he was 19. He has shown flashes of brilliance (Texas) before getting hurt.
He’s starting in 2010.
It is so difficult to find someone with a closer’s confidence and poise. Hughes seems to have that. Not that I’m in any hury to retire Rivera. However everyone gets old eventually, even the Great Mariano.
If Montero is as special as everyone seems to think – no way they deal him. Especially not for Josh Johnson.
You still need to factor in the NL pitcher to AL East conversion. He looks like a great talent, but how would he pitch here? Doesn’t he have injury issues as well?
Not Montero.
Resubmitting a question that someone asked earlier but no one answered:
Does anyone think we can ship Joba off to Toronto in a package for Roy?
for those interested in the Arizona Fall League players, here’s all of the info on who and what determines eligibility, and the Yankee players. Scroll down to the Sunrise Rafters. So far, it’s Austin Romine, Colin Curtis, Brandon Laird, Ian Kennedy and three more undetermined (probably pitchers).
http://mlb.mlb.com/documents/2.....ers_09.pdf
During the off season
I agree that Hughes has the perfect demeanor (cool, laid back CA confidence) to be a closer.
But you have to give him every opportunity to succeed as a starter. That’s his pedigree. If he fails, then you look at Plan B.
Mariano was always a starter up until ‘96. However his skills were better used elsewhere.
—-
i believe that there are a lot of young people on here and they don’t remember 1996….Mo was not a So-So starter he was good in the minors…does anybody remember his 10 strike out game against the white sox…they put him pen because their 1996 rotation was full…Cone, Rodgers, Key, Doc,Pettitte….So they put him in the pen…torre used him as the long man for the first 2 months before they moved him to set up man…Jeff Nelson was the big off season pick up and started off as the set up man…
RMEL
September 5th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
Josh Johnson – interesting. How much longer is he tied to the Marlins?
—-
he has 2 years left and is due to make 5 million next season…i would offer Montero and Z-Mac and see if they would bite
————————————————————
You might offer them, but, NYY won’t.
Jeff Nelson was a throw in with Jim Mecir in 1996. The Yankees were after Martinez.
GB, It should be interesting to see how Austin performs in the Fall league…..A big test for him……I wish he’d start shagging flyballs though…Hell even take grounders at 3rd just to add to his skill list….The boy can stick it though
If Montero is as special as everyone seems to think – no way they deal him. Especially not for Josh Johnson.
You still need to factor in the NL pitcher to AL East conversion. He looks like a great talent, but how would he pitch here? Doesn’t he have injury issues as well?
Not Montero.
—
Do me a favor check out his stats against AL teams…pretty darn good…Also what position is Mortero playing…because there is no way he is a Major league catcher…i have seen him play 10 times…he has a nice bat but he is a 1B or a DH…If you can get a pitcher like Joshson yo have to give up something….Joshson is 25 and throws 98mph…plus no innings limit with him
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....yerId=6435
I’m not that young (though sometimes I wish I was)
Mo in ’95 as a starter:
5-3, 5.51, 30 BB, 51 Ks, .266 against, 1.51 WHIP.
I’d call that “so-so”.
He also wasn’t nearly as highly touted as a starting pitching prospect as Hughes.
But he found his role – and the rest is history.
98 revisted,
I think there was a better chance of a Halladay/Joba deal a couple months ago (which if there was the opportunity for that deal then Cashman should have done it, plain and simple).
However that wouldn’t stop me from offering it in the offseason. Joba will never be the pitcher Halladay is and certainly won’t be in the next 3 years when the Yankees are going to have their best chance to win titles.
Pat M.
September 5th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
GB, It should be interesting to see how Austin performs in the Fall league…..A big test for him……I wish he’d start shagging flyballs though…Hell even take grounders at 3rd just to add to his skill list….The boy can stick it though
————————————————————
I really hope they move him around to other positions, PAT. Both corner infields, but, inparticular, the two corner outfield spots. I think that he has the footspeed to cover left field at Yankee Stadium and right field in places like Boston, Seattle and Detroit. That arm would be a real weapon in either spot.
RMEL September 5th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Giuseppe, who is out there that you would rather have then Hughes…Name some names…We have gone 9 years without a reliable set up man…We had guys with the names of Karsay, Farsworh,Quantrill, Hawkins…the best one might have been Tom Gordon and he last only 2 season….Please give me the name or names you feel comfortable with setting up for Mo next year….i will say it again April 15, 2010 Fenway Park, Yanks wining 2-1 its the 8th inning who are you bringing in….Names!!!!!
———
Perhaps you missed the part where the Yanks have been saying all year that Hughes is going to the rotation next season.
It doesn’t matter if the fans think it’s the right move or not. That’s what they are going to do.
So it would be wise if Cashman finds a strong late inning guy this offseason so we don’t have to debate this issue for another year. It’s a fruitless exercise because they’ve already made their decision on Hughes and are not going to change their minds.
I don’t understand why people aren’t paying more attention to the drop in Joba’s velocity. There must be a reason why he was throwing 100 mph a less than 2 years ago and now he can’t crack 94. Isn’t it just common sense to do some tests to find out if there is a physical cause for this or if it is just mental? A pitcher’s arm shouldn’t start to deteriorate at 23.
I like Johnson, but didn’t he miss significant time in ’07-’08? Was it TJ surgery?
Montero is 20. I think we should give it a couple more years before we declare he’s not a major league catcher.
Just saying – I wouldn’t (and neither would Cashman I think) offer Montero in a deal for Johnson.
Unless you’re thinking of taking a run at Mauer.
PAT M, do you know if Tony Pena is managing in the Carribean Winter Leagues, this year? I’d love to see him work the winter with Higashioka and especially Montero. That’s the one thing that I don’t like about the Yankees and their reluctance to beef up their minor league coaching staffs.
RMEL-
The were a number of reasons why Mariano was not cut out to be a starter. First, he was rail thin in 1995 so it is questionable how well he could have withstood 200 innings a year. Secondly, after a couple of innings hitters begin to adjust to a constant diet of cut fastballs.
I think part of Joba’s loss of velocity is due to 1)he’s trying to pace himself as a starter 2) he can’t throw strikes so he’s aiming the ball instead of throwing it 3) his shoulder still isn’t right. 4) he thinks he can channel greg maddax. Could be a combo of these…
’98
The velocity issue is at least partly a function of relieving vs. starting.
Joba (& now Hughes) know that if they’re pitching 1, 2 innings max, they can air it out.
Joba, though, has changed his approach as a starter. His velocity may have dropped, but he’s nibbling, not attacking, and his pitch selection has been too predictable, especially with 2 strikes. His inability to put away batters as a starter I believe is more “between the ears” that needs constant attention, at least for now.
RMEL September 5th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
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Do me a favor check out his stats against AL teams…pretty darn good…Also what position is Mortero playing…because there is no way he is a Major league catcher…i have seen him play 10 times…he has a nice bat but he is a 1B or a DH…If you can get a pitcher like Joshson yo have to give up something….Joshson is 25 and throws 98mph…plus no innings limit with him
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Johnson is an elite arm. Wanna know who the Marlins would ask for in return?
Start with Hughes and Montero and add a couple more of the better prospects.
Whether you believe it or not, Johnson has more trade value right now than Halladay because of his youth.
The Marlins aren’t giving him up without a top arm in return – among other top guns.
If Joba is going to try to channel Greg Maddux he is going to have a very short and frustrating career. He should stick to what made him successful to begin with-aggressiveness. Let the Tommy Glavines of the world try to nip corners.
the “between the ears” is what worries me with Joba.
Asked this earlier and no one seemed interested in answereing but what is the magic number? Is is down to 20?
Perhaps you missed the part where the Yanks have been saying all year that Hughes is going to the rotation next season.
It doesn’t matter if the fans think it’s the right move or not. That’s what they are going to do.
So it would be wise if Cashman finds a strong late inning guy this offseason so we don’t have to debate this issue for another year. It’s a fruitless exercise because they’ve already made their decision on Hughes and are not going to change their minds.
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Giuseppe, come on your a smart guy…you believe what Cash says…He has to say that….its a game of poker…Did you think we where going to get Tex on Dec 15th last year…you can’t believe a word any GM is saying because it could hinder a future move…So please believe Hughes is the rotation next year…I will when i see it, until then he is the pen….By way who is that late innings guy you want Cash to find…give me the name….
GB, I don’t know about Pena and the offseason…..I’m with you about the thiness in the Yankee Organization when it comes to development…..Randy I has been harping about this as well…..I’m hoping that Cashman will address this during the offseason….It seems every winter he keeps adding to the foundation as if it’s part of a long range program……But really, so many quality baseball guys would just jump at the opportunity to be a specialized coach in the Yankee organization…..I may fly over to Arizona for a few weekends and weatch some winter ball….It’s an hour flight…..98 Revisted….The Dodgers said the same thing about Pedro, he’s to thin and frail to be a starter…..Granted moving Rivera to the pen was a defining decision in the Dynasty run and still to this day…..
19
L to the 2nd-
I hope you are right and it is just between his ears. But I do think eventually he will have to get his velocity back up. Joba is not Mike Mussina, his pitch location will never be good enough to get by on a 90 mph fastball.
Johnson is an elite arm. Wanna know who the Marlins would ask for in return?
Start with Hughes and Montero and add a couple more of the better prospects.
Whether you believe it or not, Johnson has more trade value right now than Halladay because of his youth.
The Marlins aren’t giving him up without a top arm in return – among other top guns.
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that i do believe….I would trade Montero, Z-Mac, and Jackson…and maybe Melancon too…but did you think the Marlins where going to trade Beckett a few years ago…He is due for a raise and the Marlins might want to trade high…which is smart…we have the chips without Hughes or Joba
The reason Joba is struggling right now is because his stuff is gone and he doesn’t have the command to pitch without it. He can’t nibble the corners because he misses them, falls behind and walks people, then gives up hits by throwing it down the middle to keep from walking the next guy. Viscous cycle of awfulness..
I’m not that young (though sometimes I wish I was)
Mo in ‘95 as a starter:
5-3, 5.51, 30 BB, 51 Ks, .266 against, 1.51 WHIP.
I’d call that “so-so”.
He also wasn’t nearly as highly touted as a starting pitching prospect as Hughes.
But he found his role – and the rest is history.
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So if your Highly touted you have to be a starter…there was no room for him, so he end up in the pen….the rest is history
Next Spring we’re going to hear how Joba worked hard all winter to get into great shape…He’s not even in decent shape how and he’s paying for it this season…..
Supposedly, The Japanese ballball leagues are lookin to raid the major leagues of Japanese pitchers. They’re also looking to steal Kei Igawa.
Courtesy of MLB Rumors-R-Us.
•Patrick at NPB Tracker passes along a report saying that the Yokohama BayStars are looking to import Japanese pitchers currently playing in the States. The article mentions that players like Tomo Ohka, Yasuhiko Yabuta, and Masahide Kobayashi could interest the BayStars, while Patrick throws the names of Kei Igawa and Takashi Saito into the ring.
I don’t think not being in shape is Joba’s problem. CC is not exactly built like Schwarzenegger in his prime and he is still one of the best pitchers in baseball. Joba’s problems are either mental or injury related.
Pat M.
September 6th, 2009 at 12:19 am
GB, I don’t know about Pena and the offseason…..I’m with you about the thiness in the Yankee Organization when it comes to development…..Randy I has been harping about this as well…..I’m hoping that Cashman will address this during the offseason….It seems every winter he keeps adding to the foundation as if it’s part of a long range program……But really, so many quality baseball guys would just jump at the opportunity to be a specialized coach in the Yankee organization…..I may fly over to Arizona for a few weekends and weatch some winter ball….It’s an hour flight…..98 Revisted….The Dodgers said the same thing about Pedro, he’s to thin and frail to be a starter…..Granted moving Rivera to the pen was a defining decision in the Dynasty run and still to this day…..
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PAT, that trip to the ‘Zona leagues sounds great. If you go, take a lot of digital pix and some video that can be loaded on Youtube or here. Like you, I’ve never understood the reason for pouring millions into player development and skimping on the ideal instructors to develop it. Catching, infield, outfield and pitching instruction is needed. Guys like Butch Wynegar, Brad Gulden, Graig Nettles, Jose Cardinal, Lee Mazzilli, Tino Martinez and so many other guys that could teach everything from catching to base running to hitting to infield play. Run it like Stengel’s instructional camps. Run it for about 3 weeks after the season and a refresher course around the 1st of February.
98 Revisited……CC Sabathia is a huge man….But his legs and core strength is what makes him a horse….Pitcher;s legs and core ( stomach & lower back ) are essential to the demands of being a pitcher at any level…..Sabathia plays basketball in the offseason……Joba looks fat / pudgy whatever…He has mo staminia, Iwatched this when he threw in Anahiem…I was in the second row behind the plate…Trust me, he was sucking for air in the second inning and was gassed by the forth…..Watch his leg lift next time he pitches into an extended inning….He’s in terrible shape for a 24 year old ballplayer…….
Pat M.
September 6th, 2009 at 12:53 am
98 Revisited……CC Sabathia is a huge man….But his legs and core strength is what makes him a horse….Pitcher;s legs and core ( stomach & lower back ) are essential to the demands of being a pitcher at any level…..Sabathia plays basketball in the offseason……Joba looks fat / pudgy whatever…He has mo staminia, Iwatched this when he threw in Anahiem…I was in the second row behind the plate…Trust me, he was sucking for air in the second inning and was gassed by the forth…..Watch his leg lift next time he pitches into an extended inning….He’s in terrible shape for a 24 year old ballplayer…….
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Chamberlain needs to undergo whatever physical makeover that Brian Bruney did last winter. I still think by the end of the year and especially, next year, Bruney is a major end of the game player for NYY. He looks healthy now, but, he needs to tweak his delivery to get more pitches over the plate. I haven’t paid a lot of attention to where he stands on the rubber, but, whatever Phil Hughes found, he needs to share it with the others.
GB, As always your points are excellent…..The Yankee Organization has access to so many former players that are lifers in the game……When Torre left the Yanks lost 2 real greast baseball coaches in Mattingly & Bowa….But the lower levels are just void of coaches…..As for Brain Bruney, he will come up big for the club come October….And I like the fact that Giradi is getting him into games as much as possible…….Come the 2nd & 3rd rounds, the bullpen gets spent quickly…..04 should be a reminder…….
Pat M.
September 6th, 2009 at 1:08 am
GB, As always your points are excellent…..The Yankee Organization has access to so many former players that are lifers in the game……When Torre left the Yanks lost 2 real greast baseball coaches in Mattingly & Bowa….But the lower levels are just void of coaches…..As for Brain Bruney, he will come up big for the club come October….And I like the fact that Giradi is getting him into games as much as possible…….Come the 2nd & 3rd rounds, the bullpen gets spent quickly…..04 should be a reminder…….
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As much as people seem to dislike Bruney, he’s a big key in the pen. Jusy like today, he came in and struck out the first batter on 3pitches, got the next guy on a pop fly and suddenly completely lost the plate. Girardi did what did the last game when that happened. He pulled Bruney and never allowed the situation to get to the point of the run scoring. I’m hoping the next game is with a couple more runs and let him try to clean up his own mistake. He gave Bruney something that he could use as a positive. He’s a reiever and they seem to be a different breed. Bruney lets things fester inside, though. Eventually, he should get back to the April Bruney.
“1998-Yankees September 5th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
Hughess might be better then Mariano
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BLASPHEMY!
Mo will go down as the best ever. There’s not even anyone remotely close to Mo, and I’ve yet to see a reliever in the last 10 years who has been relatively injury free and sustained the amount of saves Mo has year in/out. (except TH of course).
Hughes has been a started for what? 3/4 a season?