Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 05, 2009 
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Joba Chamberlain had another rocky start as the Yankees were bounced by the Blue Jays and Roy Halladay.
Alfredo Aceves is winning a lot of games in relief. This notebook also has updates on Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera and Brett Gardner.
I was watching the ending of the Tigers game when I saw Rodney throw the ball into the crowd, but didn’t realized he threw it into the press box. Did anybody get hurt?
I think it’s getting to the point where the Yanks need to demote Joba to the Scranton Yankees (AAA) team just so he can get his head on straight and take his ego down several notches.
Joba needs a kick in the pants that he’s not the hype. And at this point, I believe this is where it’s at.
Joba has a long learning curve ahead of him. It starts with his approach, willingness to learn, and how to pitch economically.
Jobamania is now just a faint whisper. He got caught up with his own hype.
Phil Hughes is far ahead with major league maturity.
Let’s stop with the Hughes versus Joba crap as it is non-productive. When I see Hughes pitching consistently as a ML starter next year then I would give him the nod as being more advanced than Joba. IMO, both of these young pitchers still have a lot to prove before being accepted as a reliable ML starting pitcher.
It is amazing how badly the Yankees have screwed up Joba. The guy can’t pitch anymore…
The Yankees didn’t screw up anything… Joba’s attitude and ego are what is causing his problems. If he doesn’t accept that he stinks and won’t accept advise from veterans, coaches and trainers, what else can the yankees do?
It is amazing how badly the Yankees have screwed up Joba. The guy can’t pitch anymore…
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He never could pitch…all he could do is throw. Throwing the ball got him by, one inning at a time, out of the bullpen two years ago…but it isn’t good enough for him to be starting in MLB.
Next year is the year of decision for Joba…he won’t have to worry about innings limits If he doesn’t become steadier then the Yanks will probbably have to bid him adieu.
Pitchers are creatures of habit, regular rest, side sessions, regular outings. Pitchers are so much creatures of habit that they fall into bad habits too. Young pitchers don’t always know enough how to get themselves out of bad habits and certainly don’t need to be led into bad habits. The new Joba rules are really bad habits to let this kid fall into, especially at this point in the season.
As Yogi is alleged to have said, “90% of this game is half mental” or words to that effect. While they are protecting Joba’s arm, they are hurting his confidence, trotting him out for these aborted starts and watching him get shelled. Maybe they get his arm back to where it needs to be – I have my serious doubts about that happening. But it’s his head I’m more worried about.
I really don’t know if he’ll be reliable again this season or post season. I don’t know if he can pull together the physical and mental games in time.
You look at this situation now, and it’s easy to use hindsight, but it would have been better to limit Joba earlier in the year. But for the Wang fiasco, maybe they would have. Maybe that’s where the Wang injury really comes back to bite the Yankees this year.
I doubt the Yanks would trade him away… I would think a trip to AAA first to get his stuff together would be option 1. If he struggles in AAA or struggles upon his return from AAA, then I would think he loses his untouchable status.
Joba comes from a chaotic, insecure and unpredictable family situation. The Yankees have replicated his family in the chaotic, unpredictable way they have handled them. Emotionally, he’s still a kid who can’t trust the people who are supposed to be “raising” him. He’s therefore no longer teachable and is hunkered down, not admitting to weaknesses. The Yanks, with all good intentions, have really screwed up. Everybody is going to have to catch their breath after the season and try to do better next year.
“I think it’s getting to the point where the Yanks need to demote Joba to the Scranton Yankees (AAA) team…”
A. Their season is about over.
B. At this point in the year. why bother.
In Joba’s defense this season has been a bit of a yo-yo with the pen, no pen and the innings cap.
However, he needs to spend a little more time working on his craft this off season. He was clearly out of shape this spring and played catch up all year.
He also needs to wake up and listen to the people around the team, especially Girardi, Eiland, and his catchers.
He may be special in the future or if this continues he could be Jeremy Bonderman. Time will tell.
I doubt the Yanks would trade him away… I would think a trip to AAA first to get his stuff together would be option 1. If he struggles in AAA or struggles upon his return from AAA, then I would think he loses his untouchable status.
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Next year will be Joba Chamberlain’s 4th year in the majors. Players can not be sent down to the minors in their 4th year in the majors. Joba either survives next season or is gone. Some other will want to try reconstructing him…so the Yanks will move him if he struggles and try to get something for him.
Another problem with sending him to the minors is he would just dominate.
He, Hughes, and IPK are too good for AAA. When they’re there it shows.
You can’t learn too much in a league where Kei Igawa is an All Star.
Some other will want to try reconstructing him…
Should read:
Some other team will want to try reconstructing him…
“Some other team will want to try reconstructing him…”
Unfortunately, that could be what will need to happen.
sunny615-
well it’ll be a good place for him to think because the season is over there in a few days.
he could sit around and drink beers and think about life.
the new joba plan. just kidding of course.
but i agree with your main point that the boy needs some serious intervention.
i’m kind of wondering if joba will ever get into good physical shape. if you’re that bad at his age, that’s bad. he looks like a fifty year old and not even one who’s in good shape.
and don’t let coming to the ball park early to run fool you. it’s sometimes an old trick with players who are hung over to sweat it out and get ready to play baseball.
one time i introduced a player who is now a triple a manager to another player who was my roommate during pre season workouts and after practice we went to a florida seaside restaurant and bar for a late lunch and 105 drafts later- yes that was the bar tab- we managed to make it back to the hotel.
the next day the present day triple manager knocked on my room and said we have to go get the alcohol out of our system. we got the other guy , our left fielder, and went to the fleld three hours before anyone else.
we ran foul pole to foul pole in 90 degree humidity for two hours with some ice cold showers thrown in a few times for shock value to the system.
clete boyer our manager had come as he always did early to the clubhouse before anyone else and watched us from time to time from the clubhouse doorway smoking a cigarette in his yankee shorts and tshirt( not a yankee winterball team team but clete had yankee stuff underneath his uniform always) .
me being a rookie type thought that clete was going to be real impressed with our early workouts.
after our final pole runs left us dripping in sweat we went into the clubhouse where clete greeted us with ” rough night boys ? ”
clete had seen it all and he knew exactly what we were doing. the other two players started and had a good game and i managed to catch decent bullpen. but does a player really want to burn the candle on all ends like that?
the answer is of course no. i don’t know what joba does in his spare time, but he looks puffy and out of shape . maybe he’s taking care of himself and this fifty year old body we’re seeing is just his body type, but i think that’s giving him too much of the benefit of the doubt.
i think the yankees need to take charge with joba and lay down some very strict guidelines with some veteran players stepping in and enforcing them.
I don’t know what’s going on with Jobber. Heck, does anyone? Is it all him? The wacky schedule the yankees had for him? Did he eat something bad?
I’m not gonna be giving up on Jobber, I still think he can and will be an effective starter, but my gosh his past few starts have been really hard to watch. Sometimes I just wanna shake him.
Great story, Randy. Thank you. Clete Boyer was one of my favorite Yanks from the ’60s. I understand that he went through alcoholism and recovery himself.
Not sure if the alcohol abuse/too much partying is what’s going on with Joba. He did have the DWI over the winter. I hope the kid’s OK.
I’m far from giving up on Joba the starter. So too, I bet, are the Yankees. But the way they have tried to manage the Verducci Rule problem has contributed greatly to Joba’s present level of ineffectiveness.
I’m assigning irregularity of work just as great a share of the blame as any personality “defect” some of the amateur psychiatrists want to blame. Yes he was stubborn and yes, he was scared of challenging hitters at the New Stadium. But the only way a young pitcher gets better at that is more work, not less. Now that he’s been reduced to spring training outings he’s expected to solve problems and be effective? Not a fair critique, IMO.
Great story as always randy. Thanks
Everything in the Yankee universe is under a microscope.
Joba is 24 with 38 career starts.
Look at the first 38 career starts from almost any other great pitcher. I think you will find Joba is right there.
Lately he’s been terrible. Is it a trend, or an expected bump in the road. My money is on the bump.
ed h.
there is as much time spent away from the ballpark as at the ball park. for young players that’s a lot of free time on their hands and as you can imagine being young and single in new york city and in road cities around the country can give a lot of choices to young players.
that’s why i said the yankees really should make sure, if they haven’t already, that some veteran players take joba under their wing and show him the right way to go about his business.
i think we all know from watching joba shake off catchers and stubbornly keep going with his breaking pitches that he doesn’t really listen that well. he appears to have to learn things the hard way.
as long as he learns them he should be ok, but there’s enough danger signals to make people wonder.
I waiting for the next Jeter like prospect,that only wanted to play for the NY Yankee.The pitching door is wide open,will anyone step through!!
murphydog-
i agree the joba rules have been a problem. the yankees have not exactly been consistent in their handling of him, but this is new for them and they are i’m sure doing the best they can.
anytime a conditioning and developmental plan is based on a sportswriter who thinks selena roberts is great you have to know you’re winging it.
i do think it’s fair to get into joba’s head a bit though because he may mentally be more cut out for coming to the ball park and maybe pitching rather than having 4 days off .
it has nothing to do with 4 plus pitches. it has to do with what it takes to keep him sharp and on his game.
starting may be too much down time for him . maybe not. it’s all speculation at this point, but the joba that came out of the bullpen with an edge to him is rarely seen with him as a starter.
i don’t pretend to have a clue what’s going on with joba, but i don’t see a well prepared athlete when i look at him . now maybe that’s a totally wrong appraisal, but i just don’t think he’s in shape to start.
when he was relieving he had much more of a daily urgency and a regimen that seemed to keep him sharp. of course if he was getting better results we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
bottom line is he’s a young pup and he will get older.
sometimes older is good
randy 1:
Old age and treachery will beat youth and skill any day
For all I know, Joba may be all the things he looks to you to be. He might be stubborn, lazy, unfocused and unable to lay off the high calorie foods… and adult beverages. Still, any or all of those problems are only compounded by this unreal role he is playing right now, non-starter, non-reliever, whatever the heck he is.
IMO, a guy like Joba needs regularity, regular 6 (or 7) innings outings, so he can learn to pace himself, learn the tricks of reading a hitter and get over his fear of contact at Yankee Stadium. To break a guy like Joba of his “idiosyncracies” you need to work him, IMO. That theory collides with the innings limit crap, er… cap. Joba’s not going to stop being Joba until they can knock the horns off him with WORK.
Coney said it last night, you can tell him all you want but at some point he’s just got to do it. As long as they believe in him, they have to keep running him out there until he gets tired of doing it his way and failing.
-Joba’s best friend on the Yankees is out for the year.You know the guy who named his son after Justin (Joba.)
-Hope andy will be the work horse he’s always been today,win the series,that’s what the 2009 Yankees do best.
-Yankees are still the only team with less than 50 losses.
randy
Your points on Joba are valid. It seems to be a combination of things with him.
The thing I think we may be seeing between the BP and starting is the learning curve.
When he was a RP he used the slider very effectively. It appears as if the hitters have started to recognize that pitch and are laying off it. He needs to adjust to the hitters adjustment.
“when he was relieving he had much more of a daily urgency and a regimen that seemed to keep him sharp.”
Randy
Good point. I also feel (not sure why) that not having Hughes nipping at his heels as a starter is contributing to is mental lapses as well. I think he mentally does better when the heat is on. He’s not directly competing for a spot, the game is not on the line (1st-5th inning) etc. I am no psychwhateverologist but thats what my instinct is shouting to me, re Joba.
It’s also why I am not so concerned come post season. I think he will turn back on.
With Mike young out because of injury for TEX that great new for Yankees.