The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


The MVP ballot starts to take shape

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 21, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Minnesota Twins have played 149 games and are three games out of first place. Joe Mauer leads the American League in batting average (.374), on-base percentage (.442) and slugging percentage (.611).

He also has 88 RBI in 124 games and has scored 88 runs. Did I mentioned that he is a catcher?

It seems safe to say at this point that the first decision to make when filling out an MVP ballot is who comes in second.

I’m planning to submit my ballot after the final game of the regular season. The biggest questions in my mind are:

• Which Yankee — Teixeira or Jeter — should be first on the list? Should Mariano Rivera get a vote?

• Where do you figure in Zack Greinke and Felix Hernandez?

• The Red Sox have the second-best record in the game at the moment and should be represented. Kevin Youkilis belongs on the list, and fairly high.

It’s an interesting process.

Meanwhile, for those who have asked, I informed BBWAA national secretary Jack O’Connell that I am switching jobs and offered to give up my vote. But he said that since I will have covered the entire regular season for a newspaper in New York, I can continue to be one the two New York voters.

Keep in mind that the MVP covers only those accomplishments of the regular season.

UPDATE, 5:22 p.m.: MVP talk always stirs debate and it has again. Jeter has had a terrific season and is worthy of recognition. But Mauer is having an historically significant season and is doing so while playing a premium defensive position.

Jeter is eighth on his own team in OPS and seventh in OPS+. And spare me the “he’s great leader” stuff. Do you think Joe Mauer walks around kicking old ladies and discouraging his teammates from playing well? I’ll check to make sure, but I’m guessing he does not.

Nobody outside of the team — and that includes reporters — can quantify leadership. That is impossible. I personally believe Jeter is a very fine leader. But I can’t say he’s any better at that than Mauer is. How would I know?

I’ve tried to look at every statistic — even those I find fishy — and I’ve talked to a bunch of people to solicit opinions. It keeps coming back to Mauer every time.

It’s not a lifetime achievement award. There’s a nice building in Cooperstown for that. It’s the MVP for 2009.

 
 

Advertisement

245 Responses to “The MVP ballot starts to take shape”

  1. Laura September 21st, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    “The Red Sox have the second-best record in the game at the moment and should be represented. Kevin Youkilis belongs on the list, and fairly high.”

    Well, that didn’t take long. :P

  2. Curtis from Canada September 21st, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    Pete: Switching jobs? Where to?

    I hope you are staying with the blog!!

  3. Mo September 21st, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    Mauer
    Jeter
    Greinke
    Youkilis
    Abreu
    Cabrera
    Zobrist
    Felix

  4. tony September 21st, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Mauer is the hands down MVP this year, shouldn’t even be a close vote

  5. Erica - always OPPC September 21st, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Other than the fact that he plays on a lousy team-
    Why isn’t Ichiro in the conversation.

    (Disclaimer- I am not saying he should win the award. I am saying he should be in the discussion)

  6. m September 21st, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    -Mauer
    -Tex
    -Jeter
    -Youk (under protest)
    -Morales
    -Cabrera

    Greinke, Hernandez, Sabathia, and Rivera get no top 10 votes. Sorry, they can duke it out for the Cy Young. Edge to Greinke (ERA) and Sabathia (Wins).

  7. Rex September 21st, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    1) Mauer
    2) Jeter
    3) Cabrera
    4) Morales
    5) Teixeira
    6) Bay
    7) Abreu
    8) Youkilis
    9) Rodriguez
    10)Longoria

  8. Pat M. September 21st, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    If your talking about Boston, think Jason Bay….When he went down ( slump & injury ) The BoSox tanked……He & Youk will be splitting votes just as the Yanks Jeter & Texeria…….Miguel Cabberea of the Tigers is the most valuable player to any team outside Sir Albert of St. Louis

  9. Eights September 21st, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    In my opinion, Teixeira is the MVP of the Yankees.

    I would also put Tex as #1 in MVP of the AL, but I might be biased in that.

  10. Andrew GTLU Bronze Medalist September 21st, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    Re-post from last thread, re: playoff tickets. Drive 4-5, I emailed my ticket representative: the way it works is 1,500 people with partial plans are getting randomly selected for the pre-pre onsale that season ticket holders with more than 20 games get to participate in on the 23rd. Then, after that, those with partial season ticket plans (less than 20 games) can buy tickets starting on 9/25.

  11. Kevin S. September 21st, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    1. Mauer
    2. Jeter
    3. Zobrist
    4. Greinke
    5. Longoria

  12. an0n September 21st, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    red coat

  13. MaineYankee September 21st, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Pat M.
    September 21st, 2009 at 3:08 pm
    If your talking about Boston, think Jason Bay….When he went down ( slump & injury ) The BoSox tanked……He & Youk will be splitting votes just as the Yanks Jeter & Texeria…….Miguel Cabberea of the Tigers is the most valuable player to any team outside Sir Albert of St. Louis

    —————————————————-

    You don’t think Tex defense trumps Cabrera?

  14. sab September 21st, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    The Red Sox have the second-best record in the game at the moment and should be represented. Kevin Youkilis belongs on the list, and fairly high.
    =========================================================

    of course…why not also vote for the umpires that gifted the redsox a few wins this year..
    ortiz and lowell have been just as important to that lineup as youkilis has…

  15. Trevor (Super Mario) September 21st, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Listening to Don LeCreca :shock:

  16. m September 21st, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Pete,

    I will be sorely disappointed if you put Youkilis above your top Yankee choice.

  17. an0n September 21st, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    I wonder if he will be as critical of Ortiz?

  18. m September 21st, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    Kevin S,

    How do to Rays make your top 5? When you have no Morales, Abreu, or Cabrera in there.

  19. Nick von Clausewitz in SF September 21st, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    Most Vile Puke: Youk.

  20. m September 21st, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    bodhi,

    Can we compromise? If the fans want the media to leave Joba alone, then he should pitch better. Fair enough? :)

  21. Paco Dooley September 21st, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    OK, I didn’t want to believe (I’ve been pulling for a major push by Jeter), but you just can’t change the facts, and the facts are that Mauer is the MVP. Where would the Twins be without him? Without Jeter the Yankees would probably be a winning team, maybe even a playoff team. I’m actually thinking that Tex has Jeter beat for the vote on his own team, as much as I hate to admit it. His offensive numbers are right at the top of the league, and he is clearly the best defensive 1st baseman in the league, if not the game. Who knew his defence was so amazing?

  22. randy l. September 21st, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    mauer
    teixeira
    jeter
    youkillis

    teixeira has been a difference make for the a yankees this year.

    let’s see what youkillis’ record would be if he ever played a full season.

    he doesn’t play hurt. never goes over 147 games.

    jeter sacrifices his personal stats to play 15 games a year more at a much more difficult position.

  23. dan September 21st, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    ha ha ha La Greca lost it

  24. Rex September 21st, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    “You don’t think Tex defense trumps Cabrera?”

    No more so than Cabrera playing with a fringe lineup as opposed to the great lineup Teixeira bats in.

    One hits in front of Arod
    One hits in front Marcus Thames or Ryan Raburn

  25. randy l. September 21st, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    “Pete: Switching jobs? Where to?
    I hope you are staying with the blog!!”

    curtis from cananda-

    you getting your news by dogsled? :)

  26. Kevin S. September 21st, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    “Kevin S,

    How do to Rays make your top 5? When you have no Morales, Abreu, or Cabrera in there.”

    Because I considered the defensive and positional values of Zobrist and Longoria. Morales and Cabrera are first basemen, while Abreu is a DH pretending to be an outfielder. I don’t hold it against them that other members of the team failed to live up to expectations, and for those who think an MVP needs to come from a contender, the Rays were playing meaningful baseball into September. If I had to pick an Angel, it’s probably Chone Figgins.

  27. Pat M. September 21st, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    MaineYankee…..I certainly think Texeria is the MVP for the Yanks and he’ll make a strong run in the voting…..I brought up Miguel because he is the Tigers most important and most valuable player……Now that Tex is closing in on a .300 BA, he may pull off some more votes…..However he and Derek are going to split many ballots…..88 rbi’s in an MVP season is weak……

  28. Nick von Clausewitz in SF September 21st, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    Most Volatile Posada: Jorge

  29. Backbench September 21st, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    Another reminder of how much fun the LAA series will be.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....om-perfect

    “The Angels have a speed game that the Yankees have been unable to slow down. The always-on-the-go Angels of the Mike Scioscia decade have stolen 113 bases and been caught 44 times (that’s a 72 percent success rate) in the 88 games they have played against the Yankees in the 2000s.”

    Wow. 72%

  30. fscott19 September 21st, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    stinks. almost forgot pete was leaving for minute.

  31. Guest September 21st, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Let’s take a second away from the MVP/role of team’s success debate to just appreciate Mauer’s season.

    The numbers Pete quoted are astounding for ANY hitter. For a player who is also a great defensive catcher (I know he has also DH’ed quite a bit, but the lion’s share of his games have been at catcher and he has played the position at an elite level) is nothing short of unreal.

    I am only 26. But I think it is the most awe-inspiring season I have experienced in my short life time (next to Bonds’…um…”questionable” 73 HR season).

  32. Wait till the ALDS September 21st, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Mauer
    Jeter
    Tex
    Youk
    Morales

  33. Kevin S. September 21st, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    “Wow. 72%”

    That’s bad, actually. Break-even is generally considered to be 75%. In the long run, the Angels cost themselves runs stealing at that rate.

  34. Nick von Clausewitz in SF September 21st, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Most Vapid Personality: Papelbon

  35. Wait till the ALDS September 21st, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Guest-Cough A-Rod 07′ cough.

  36. MaineYankee September 21st, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    Pat M.
    September 21st, 2009 at 3:24 pm
    MaineYankee…..I certainly think Texeria is the MVP for the Yanks and he’ll make a strong run in the voting…..I brought up Miguel because he is the Tigers most important and most valuable player……Now that Tex is closing in on a .300 BA, he may pull off some more votes…..However he and Derek are going to split many ballots…..88 rbi’s in an MVP season is weak……

    —————————————————-

    I was just questioning you putting Cabrera’s value ahead of Tex. Not in regard to MVP but in general.

    Tex overall game to me would put him ahead of Cabrea, as far as how I would value them.

  37. m September 21st, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    Kevin S,

    Fair enough. But there are a bunch of good defensive players on losing teams.

    If we’re placing emphasis on defense, then Tex is it for me. Even though he’s “only” a first baseman, he’s really upgraded our infield. Saving throwing errors for all 3 of the other members of the infield.

    o/t, no one brought up the Rangers. Do they not have an mvp candidate?

  38. Pat M. September 21st, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    The Yanks are facing the Wang debacle right about now…..The rotation for 2010, CC, AJ, Young Master Hughes ( just of of bullpen duty ) , a regressing Joba, another stint with a Andy Pettite and his 1 year older cranky shoulder ?….One thing is likely, Cashman’s willingness togo with Phil, Joba & Ian is unlikely……Lackey and his 200 innings per season ? maybe revisit Doc ? Cashman has his work cut out for him…….Yanks will saty with Joba in October, but Gaudin will be warming up in the 1st inning just in case…….The Wang Factor looms large

  39. Former Box 607 September 21st, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    Pete:

    You are an honorable man and I appreciate the fact that the BBWAA acknowledged that by allowing you to keep the vote even though you are abandoning us.

    As for the suggestion that there should be a Boston player on the MVP voting, that is entirely appropriate given they will be a playoff team. Youkilis is 2nd, in OBP and OPS, and 3rd in SLG, but his RBI and HR totals are much less than Bay. So that’s a tough choice.

    I’d think the discussion for MVP is Mauer and then in no particular order, Teixeira, Miguel Cabrera, Jeter, Bay, Longoria, K. Morales, Grienke, Youkilis.

  40. Chambliss September 21st, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    This is just my opinion, but when you consider Tex’s impact on the offense through direct production as well as his presence in the lineup, and his impact on defense including allowing the other infielders to play with more confidence, he is clearly the MVP of the Yankees.

    If someone other than Tex not named Albert were playing first for the Yankees this year, the Yankees would be fighting with Texas for a playoff spot.

  41. tex's friend September 21st, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Mauer is the hands down MVP this year, shouldn’t even be a close vote

    ___

    I know people think it is that much more impressive that mauer has these numbers while missing 35 games or so, but tex and jeter were out there playing while mauer was out. yes, mauer leads in average and slugging, but tex leads in rbi, and most likely homeruns by the end of the year.

  42. Robbykid September 21st, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Who determines the schedule? I do not understand why the Yanks have to go to the West Coast at the end of Sept, while the Red Sucks get to play cake games at home….Maybe I am disgruntled that the Red Sox are winning and Yanks are losing, but to me, the schedules seems bias….

  43. Rex September 21st, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    “Tex overall game to me would put him ahead of Cabrea, as far as how I would value them.”

    I’d look at this way. If both the Yankees were to replace their 1B with an average player, say Lyle Overbay, how would you see the fates of both teams?

    To me, the Yankees are in playoffs with Overbay. Rest of the team is that good. The Tigers? They’d be tooth and nail to get to 75 wins.

    Cabrera means more to his team.

  44. tex's friend September 21st, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    4) Morales

    If tex loses because of the others in the lineup, so does kendry morales. everyone in that lineup hits .300. yankees have 2 hitting over .300.

  45. Kevin S. September 21st, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    “Fair enough. But there are a bunch of good defensive players on losing teams.”

    Longoria and Zobrist are no slouches with the stick, either. ;-)

    I’m not discounting Teix’s defense, but given the above-average SS and the above-average first baseman, I’ll take the SS every time. Or the third baseman. Or the catcher. Or the dude with the flexibility to fill in up the middle or in the outfield and perform well in either role. Because offense is at more of a premium for those positions than first base.

  46. Pat M. September 21st, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Maine Yankee…I may have mistakingly represented my ipinion…Take awy Miguel from Detroit, they’re a second division club……I’ve been a Texeria fan since his days in Texas…..I think he’s the AL MVP

  47. m September 21st, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Pat M,

    I can’t see taking on another AJ size contract that Lackey will command.

    But you’re right, the Yankees need to decide if they’re going to hedge their bets against “Joba the ?” & “Phil the Incomplete Season” by bringing in another FA pitcher.

    One thing I know, is he won’t be trading for a pitcher. Teams are asking for too much, and you can’t trust NL pitchers so the pool is really small. Basically the AL West and AL Central.

    How about Aceves?

    -CC
    -AJ
    -Pettitte
    -Joba
    -Hughes
    -Aceves
    -IPK
    -Mitre :?

  48. GreenBeret7 September 21st, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    randy l.
    September 21st, 2009 at 3:23 pm
    “Pete: Switching jobs? Where to?
    I hope you are staying with the blog!!”

    curtis from cananda-

    you getting your news by dogsled?

    ————————————————————

    A sled pulled by a team of chihuahuas could have gotten the news to him faster than his online service did. OH, those crazy Canadians. .

  49. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes September 21st, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    m
    September 21st, 2009 at 3:18 pm
    bodhi,
    Can we compromise? If the fans want the media to leave Joba alone, then he should pitch better. Fair enough?
    =======

    No one is asking the media to leave poor little Joba “alone.”

    I have no problem with reporters asking their questions after each outing. That’s their job, to a degree.

    What’s objectionable is the heavy-handed presumption and self-regard that if Joba’s not
    ‘fessin’ up his frustrations to THEM, he is in some sort of overall denial.

  50. NYYROC September 21st, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    72% success rate for LAA stealing vs NYY means they are thrown out 28% of the time. Rule of thumb is that on average catchers throw out 25% of would be basestealers. So actually the LAA are only about average or slightly below.

  51. Cory September 21st, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    If the season ends tomorrow, who do you give the MVP to between these two players?

    A: .329/.399/.462 17HR, 104 Runs, 64 RBI

    B: .322/.352/.518 23 HR, 97 Runs, 77 RBI

    They are both middle infielders.

  52. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes September 21st, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    Robbykid
    September 21st, 2009 at 3:34 pm
    Who determines the schedule? I do not understand why the Yanks have to go to the West Coast at the end of Sept, while the Red Sucks get to play cake games at home….Maybe I am disgruntled that the Red Sox are winning and Yanks are losing, but to me, the schedules seems bias….
    =======

    We had three trips to the West Coast this season, two of them within a month of the other.

    They had two trips to the Coast, both before the All-Star break.

    But relax. No one is catching the Yankees.

  53. Guido September 21st, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    Youkilis (or YouKillUs, as the case may be) is 2nd in the AL in OBA and 2nd in OPS – pretty amazing considering the guys around him – Ortiz and Bay – had some pretty significant slumps this year. If this guy were a Yankee we would’ve canonized him as the second coming of Paulie O by now.

  54. Mike September 21st, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    1. Mauer
    2. Greinke

    Gap
    Gap
    Gap

    3. Zobrist
    4. Jeter
    5. Longoria
    6. Figgins
    7. Teixeira
    8. Cabrera
    9. Crawford
    10. Guitierez

    Wassup, wassup people. Look at dem Rays!

  55. Cory September 21st, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    If the season ended tomorrow which middle infielder would you consider more valuable?

    A: .329/.399/.462 17 hr, 104 run, 64 RBI

    b: .322/.352/.518 23 hr, 97 runs, 77 RBI

  56. Jerkface September 21st, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    The angels steal a lot of bases at a very good clip against almost everyone. A pointless stat.

    They are 15/17 against the red sox. NICE MATCH UP.

  57. Bill September 21st, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    Thank goodness the right guy is winning out, but it’s sad that the team had to win a bunch of games to lead you to the correct decision, when it’s so entirely obvious that team record wasn’t intended to and shouldn’t be a consideration.

    Jeter way, way over Teixeira. Tex probably doesn’t belong on the ballot, certainly not in the top 5. Zobrist and Longoria absolutely should be in the top 5, but there’s no real point in wasting votes on them. A vote for Rivera anywhere in the top 10 is a vote by someone who should not get a vote.

  58. m September 21st, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    bodhi,

    You have a good point. But Joba’s stunk for a while, that can’t be denied even by Joba. But I see your point, he can’t say, “I don’t know what the hell is going on.”

    Can someone help me out with the hitch thing? Where is the hitch in his delivery? How is it affecting his pitching? And was it back yesterday?

  59. Patrick September 21st, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    Pete, sounds like you have a pretty good grasp on the MVP vote. However, I don’t think a player deserves votes because his team is “2nd best in the league”. I also think that once you get past Mauer you can’t really go wrong with 2-10. There is a large grouping of players that have had great years but not as great as Mauer.

    That being said, I’d go with this for the top 10 if the season ended today:

    1. Mauer
    2. Jeter
    3. Teixeira
    4. Zobrist
    5. Greinke
    6. Cabrera
    7. Youkilis
    8. Longoria
    9. Bartlett
    10. Ichiro

    It’s really tough to pick 9 players after Mauer and put them in order. There are a lot of deserving players.

  60. Dave September 21st, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    The “means more to his team” argument penalizes good players on good teams. So, because Cabrera is surrounded by players who are not on the same level as he is, he gets more recognition because without him, his team would be fighting for a .500 record? I don’t buy that. I’m not even sold on Mauer as MVP – what if the Twins don’t make first place and miss the playoffs. Mauer had a great year but is he really the MOST VALUABLE player? Probably not.

    Teixeira means everything to this Yankees lineup. Look at Damon’s numbers this year. He raked this season – much due to the protection of Tex in the lineup. Then you add in Tex’s numbers – it’s ridiculous. Mauer is great and yes, he’s having a great season. But defining ‘value’ is imperative when you give out this award.

  61. MaineYankee September 21st, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    Pat M.

    I went back and reread that post and I guess I misunderstood your point. After rereading it I get what you were saying.

  62. Pat M. September 21st, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    m, Much depends on how things shape up next month & Once they count how many millions they pulled in for the 2009 season will determine the Hot Stove season’s stratergy…..The loss of Wang , the regression of Joba , and Young Master Phillip Hughes year in the pen isn’t what was planned for 09…..

  63. m September 21st, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    I would expect no one, expect a Tampa fan/writer, to vote for Zobrist/Longoria over Tex/Jeter.

  64. Kevin S. September 21st, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    Cory, you’ve got to say what they do on the basepaths, a general indication of how good their defense is (even if you don’t like UZR or +/-, you can roughly guess how much value they add based on whatever you use to evaluate defense), and which MI position they play. SS > 2B.

  65. Blackaccord September 21st, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    what’s the over/under on the inning in which an Angel steals home today??

  66. Peter Rabbit September 21st, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    I want to know if I’m alone: Does anyone else find it hard visiting this blog since finding out of Pete’s departure?

    It’s painful to come here. It’s kind of like, I want to distance myself because I can’t handle the loss. It’s just too hard. :(

  67. Cory September 21st, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    Kevin S,

    very true but it would hurt my argumet hahaha. Player a is jeter player b is cano. Obviously jeter is more valuable just trying to illustrate cano is having a VERY underrated year.

  68. Rex September 21st, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    “Look at Damon’s numbers this year. He raked this season – much due to the protection of Tex in the lineup.”

    Same numbers he had with Jeter batting behind him in ’06. Hell, he hit .300+ and drove in 95 runs with Mark Bellhorn hitting behind him in ’04.

  69. NYY626 -Go Andy September 21st, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    Blackaccord
    September 21st, 2009 at 3:52 pm
    what’s the over/under on the inning in which an Angel steals home today??
    ____________________________________________________________
    Inning “Not Gunna Happen”

  70. christina25 September 21st, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    Why not Youk? He is a very good player his average is higher than Tex’s. He plays for both positions and he is a tough out. But I dont expect Yankee fans to admit that because there you are not being objective. But if I was to vote I would choose Mauer.

  71. RICH September 21st, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    Youk MVP no way, his numbers no better than Cano’s

    Youk av 309 hr25 rbi 86

    Cano av 322 hr 23 rbi 77

  72. m September 21st, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    It’ll be sad to see Peter go, but I think we’ll get over it as soon as we see him ingratiating himself with the Sox fans.

    I hope he doesn’t point out how “fanatical” we are. He better portray us as the mild-mannered, respectful, and intellegent fans that we are. :)

  73. Wait till the ALDS September 21st, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    I like it…NY fans are radical, fanatic nutcases…spread the word all the way to Boston Pete…

  74. Rex September 21st, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    “Obviously jeter is more valuable just trying to illustrate cano is having a VERY underrated year.”

    I think people are on to Cano having a great year. Could result in a Silver Slugger for him, though whoever votes for that stuff may be more dazzled by Hill’s 30/100 season. Cano’s had a terrific season.

  75. BJK September 21st, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    RICH
    September 21st, 2009 at 3:58 pm
    Youk MVP no way, his numbers no better than Cano’s
    Youk av 309 hr25 rbi 86
    Cano av 322 hr 23 rbi 77

    ———————————————————–

    Youk RISP: av 357 hr 7 rbi 62 ops 1.074
    Cano RISP: av 209 hr 3 rbi 52 ops 575

    I love Cano, but until he improves with RISP, comparisons with Youkilis are silly.

  76. CompassRosy September 21st, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    Erica – always OPPC September 21st, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Other than the fact that he plays on a lousy team-
    Why isn’t Ichiro in the conversation.

    (Disclaimer- I am not saying he should win the award. I am saying he should be in the discussion)
    ==============================================

    Lousy?
    That’s a bit strong for a team with a winning record and the best ERA in the AL isn’t it?
    Mediocre maybe, but lousy?

    Sorry – just gotta defend my guys :)

  77. m September 21st, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    No one is saying that Youk’s not a good player. Tex is the best player on the best team. And if it weren’t for Mauer, Tex would probably be the concensus MVP.

    Don’t just look at average, Christina25, look at their production, too.

    I know you weren’t trying to insult our intelligence by saying we can’t be objective.

  78. art September 21st, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    “• The Red Sox have the second-best record in the game at the moment and should be represented. Kevin Youkilis belongs on the list, and fairly high.”

    Just because the Red Sox have the second best record _ means someone from that team should be represented? This is an MVP ballot, not an All-star ballot. It’s about the most valuable player, and to me, that doesn’t mean the best player on the best team.

    I might (just MIGHT) buy the argument that an exceptional player on an atrocious team might not be contributing enough to be considered an MVP, but the idea that a team with a good record HAS to have an MVP on its roster is beyond ridiculous. Youkilis might have the numbers to be in the MVP discussion, but leave that faulty logic behind.

  79. Wait till the ALDS September 21st, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    Question: What exactly is the silver slugger award?

  80. Give Joba another All-Star break September 21st, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    Does anyone else thing Pete should not be allowed in Yankee Stadium at this point? He’ll be like a Red Sox scout by the end of the year, only having had more access to our organization. Plus his baseball acumen and his need to get chummy with the Red Sox personel make him a candidate to at least answer questions on Yankee players…

  81. Wait till the ALDS September 21st, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    Wow, Cano’s struggles w/RISP are only a difference of four RBI’s from someone who’s great with RISP.

  82. Dave September 21st, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    With Tex hitting behind him, Damon’s power numbers are back up up this year. 24 HR ties a career high – he’ll likely finish with more.

  83. randy l. September 21st, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    ” and Young Master Phillip Hughes year in the pen isn’t what was planned for 09…..”

    pat m-

    i think i noticed that sneaky nick in sf trying to take credit for your coining of ” the young master phillip hughes” phrase.

    if you need research help to back up your claim against the ever opportunistic nick in sf, just let me know.

    i still can’t believe he made money on betting on livan on info he got from me and never even sent a mussina bar as a thank you.

  84. David September 21st, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    I expect the MVP voters outside New YOrk City to prefer Teix to Jeter by a wide margin. Teix’s value is obvious from the stats. Jeter’s is not.

  85. Erica - always OPPC September 21st, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    Compass Rosy-

    That is fair enough. I tend to forget Seattle isn’t actually as terrible this year as they have been the last few seasons.

    I just don’t understand why no one is putting Ichiro in the MVP conversation. I think he deserves some credit

  86. Rex September 21st, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    “Question: What exactly is the silver slugger award?”

    Sort of the Gold Glove of offense. Guy perceived to be the best offensive player at his position. Cano won at 2B in ’06. Posada had himself a mini-dynasty earlier in the decade, but Mauer has won 2 of the last 3. Jeter will win a 4th straight. Arod won the last two at 3B, but not so much this year. Teixeria should win at 1B and wouldn’t rule out Matsui getting it for DH even though the correct answer is probably Adam Lind.

  87. Kevin S. September 21st, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    “Teix’s value is obvious from the stats. Jeter’s is not.”

    Which stats are you looking at? Because for as much as people think SABR guys hate Jeter, most would tell you he’s been the second-most valuable position player behind Mauer in the AL.

  88. matthew frags September 21st, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    Since when did OBP and SLG matter more than HR & RBI? Please name for me (without looking) the SLG pct of ANY MVP winner this decade?

    Mark Teixeira will finish the season leading the AL in HR, RBI, extra base hits; to go with his gold glove; he’ll be the #3 hitter on MLB’s #1 offense!

    I get it. Mauer can hit. He’s also played in TWENTY-ONE less games than Tex this year. Sure, he’s a great hitter and WOW, he’s a catcher. BUT, his accolade is BATTING CHAMP. He wins the batting title, not the MVP.

    Please name for me the last hitter to lead his league in HR, RBI and play for MLB’s best team (best record) and NOT win the MVP? Now, find the player who did that AND won a gold glove AND led league in xbh?

    If Mauer gets Minn to play for a chance to tie or take lead over DET sometime in the nest 2 weeks- fine. Give him the MVP.

    BUT, right now…. Mauer has 1/3 of triple crown, he’s played in 21 less games than TEX… Tex has 2/3 of triple crown.

    I repeat, Mark Teixeira is playing gold glove defense, is leading AL in RBI and XBH, and is 2 HR away from leading AL in HR. What more can we say.

    Don’t tell me he has talent around him. Morenau won MVP in 2006 and he played with the Cy Young and the Batting Champ.

    Mark Teixeira is your MVP.

  89. DT - OPPC member September 21st, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    christina25
    September 21st, 2009 at 3:58 pm
    Why not Youk? But I dont expect Yankee fans to admit that because there you are not being objective.

    maybe you should teach a class in objectivity. We’ll all rush over and sign up.

  90. Erica - always OPPC September 21st, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Give Joba another All-Star break
    September 21st, 2009 at 4:06 pm
    Does anyone else thing Pete should not be allowed in Yankee Stadium at this point? He’ll be like a Red Sox scout by the end of the year, only having had more access to our organization. Plus his baseball acumen and his need to get chummy with the Red Sox personel make him a candidate to at least answer questions on Yankee players…

    ****

    What makes you think that Pete isn’t going to Boston to infiltrate the Red Sox organization and report back to the Yankees…….

    Maybe this whole “new job” is one big fact finding mission…….

  91. m September 21st, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Okay, I don’t even know why I was being polite on that one.

    Give me a freaking break. 37 HR/118 RBI >> 25 HR/86 RBI. No contest. Can’t be objective, my butt.

  92. Wait till the ALDS September 21st, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Thanks Rex. That’s always confused me.

  93. randy l. September 21st, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    “Why not Youk?”

    because he can’t stay in the line up for a whole year ever even playing an easy position.

    he’s not nick johnson bad , but his typical year is about 140 games.

    he won’t last long because he already has an old man body at 30 years old.

    already back problems.

  94. Kevin S. September 21st, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    “Since when did OBP and SLG matter more than HR & RBI?”

    Since SLG encapsulates the effect of HR and neither are dependent on what one’s teammates do, as RsBI are.

  95. BJK September 21st, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    Wait till the ALDS
    September 21st, 2009 at 4:06 pm
    Wow, Cano’s struggles w/RISP are only a difference of four RBI’s from someone who’s great with RISP.

    ————————————————————

    It’s actually a difference of 10 rbis.

    And Cano has had 172 opportunities. Youkilis has had 129.

  96. Ed H. September 21st, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes September 21st, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Ed H.
    September 21st, 2009 at 3:10 pm
    “I think we can assume with a degree of certainty that there is an on-going dialogue. We can also assume with some confidence that the information will stay in-house for the present time.”
    Bod, yes, both are obviously true. My point is that we should not be parsing every word of Joba’s comments to the press because we are not privy to his communications that really count.
    ====

    Oh, I know that Ed H. I was agreeing with your comment. My irony there was companion to yours ;) .

    ————————–

    Oops. Sorry, bod, I missed your irony.

    Ironic, isn’t it?

  97. GreenBeret7 September 21st, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    • The Red Sox have the second-best record in the game at the moment and should be represented. Kevin Youkilis belongs on the list, and fairly high.

    ————————————————————

    Since when has that made any difference to the highly intelligent and unbiased writers? The Yanks have led the division 13 of the last 14 years and had the best record in the league nearly as often, but only twice have they had the MVP, once, they had the Cy Young and once they had the ROY. They’ve proven over the past 76 years that they shouldn’t be trusted to vote on anything more important than local dog catcher.

  98. CC Bigs September 21st, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    An MVP with under 100 RBI and under 100 runs??? No way!

  99. Nick von Clausewitz in SF September 21st, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    randy: your research on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

    I started referring to Hughes as Young Master Philip (not Young Master Hughes) after SJ44 ignited a minor blog controversy by making a point that has continually been misunderstood/misinterpreted/misrespresented by a number of regular commenters.

    It is very possible that I was subliminally influenced by a similar nickname that predated my own usage. I would be happy to find out if that is the case.

  100. Wait till the ALDS September 21st, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    BJK-Not according to you it isn’t.

    You said that Youk has had 7 RBI’s w/RISP and Cano has had 3.

    7-3=4, right?

  101. randy l. September 21st, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    “maybe you should teach a class in objectivity. We’ll all rush over and sign up.”

    what do you do if you’re in line and the guy behind you says” hi, ‘m jim pir-one” ?

  102. Rex September 21st, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    “Please name for me the last hitter to lead his league in HR, RBI and play for MLB’s best team (best record) and NOT win the MVP?”

    Albert Belle says hey.

  103. GreenBeret7 September 21st, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    Erica – always OPPC
    September 21st, 2009 at 4:08 pm
    Compass Rosy-

    That is fair enough. I tend to forget Seattle isn’t actually as terrible this year as they have been the last few seasons.

    I just don’t understand why no one is putting Ichiro in the MVP conversation. I think he deserves some credit

    ————————————————————

    I’d put Suzuki about third on the Mariner’s team MVP list behind Lopez and Hernandez.

  104. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes September 21st, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    Oops. Sorry, bod, I missed your irony.
    Ironic, isn’t it?
    ====

    Irony is easy to miss….see?

  105. randy l. September 21st, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    ok nick i’m on it. i’ll see what i can find over the next few days.

    your willingness to search for the truth makes me take back what i said about you being stingy with mussina bars.

  106. MaineYankee September 21st, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    randy l.
    September 21st, 2009 at 4:17 pm
    “maybe you should teach a class in objectivity. We’ll all rush over and sign up.”

    what do you do if you’re in line and the guy behind you says” hi, ‘m jim pir-one” ?

    ————————————————-

    You tell him to turn around and introduce him to GB7. :lol:

  107. m September 21st, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    randy l,

    I’d like to throw my hat into the ring, please. Over the winter (or before), “Master Phil” or some other derivative.

    Thanks.

  108. GreenBeret7 September 21st, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    MaineYankee
    September 21st, 2009 at 4:21 pm
    randy l.
    September 21st, 2009 at 4:17 pm
    “maybe you should teach a class in objectivity. We’ll all rush over and sign up.”

    what do you do if you’re in line and the guy behind you says” hi, ‘m jim pir-one” ?

    ————————————————-

    You tell him to turn around and introduce him to GB7.

    ————————————————————

    I don’t narmally beat children, but, I am very open minded to suggestions.

  109. Nick von Clausewitz in SF September 21st, 2009 at 4:25 pm

    randy, I would be happy to send you a Moose Bar today if I had any to send. My entire supply is sitting in a box in Charlotte, North Carolina because my brother-in-law told me he’d ship them to me after Christmas and then never did.

    Once the warm weather hit, they had to remain in place. I’m hoping I will get some of them… someday.

    I’m also going to be getting some from LoHud commenter “Laura” once I win a wager we have, but that won’t be until the end of January at the earliest.

  110. GreenBeret7 September 21st, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    don’t narmally

    ————————————————————

    Normally, I would type this correctly.

    Naahhhhh. Who would expect that of me?

  111. matthew frags September 21st, 2009 at 4:27 pm

    “Since SLG encapsulates the effect of HR and neither are dependent on what one’s teammates do, as RsBI are.”

    I don’t buy it. MVP is a popularity contest. It’s never really about who is most deserving. It’s always about those sexy numbers.

    Again, I defy ANYONE to show me ONE player in MLB history to lead the league in HR, RBI and XBH, while playing gold glove defense, on his league’s #1 team and not win the MVP?

    MIN was 11-11 w/out Mauer. They are 2-3 games over .500 with him. He’s also played in only 124 games (he was the catcher in only 97 games, DH the rest). PLEASE, TEX played in 21 more games!

    Let’s look at Jeter’s 2006 stats and compare them to Pedroia’s 2008 stats. Jeter was better in 2006, yet he lost to Morneau for the MVP?

    Morneau was actually better in 2008, yet he lost to Pedroia? That’s odd. NOW, in 2006, Morneau played with the batting champ and the Cy Young. In 2008, MIN lost Garza, Santana, Hunter & Bartlett (4 all-stars) and Morneau STILL carried that team to a 1 game playoff against CHI.

    Without Morneau last year, Min doesn’t make playoffs!

    So, where was all this talk about justice last year when Pedroia won the award?

    Bottom line: If you lead your league in two-thirds of the triple crown, play gold glove defense and lead your league in xbh AND you pay for the league’s team with the best record…. Then you have earned the MVP award.

    Valuable isn;t about VORP or SLH or OBP or any of that, it takes into account EVERYTHING. AND, I am sorry…. It does mean something to me that TEX has played in 21 more games.

  112. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes September 21st, 2009 at 4:27 pm

    Can someone help me out with the hitch thing? Where is the hitch in his delivery? How is it affecting his pitching? And was it back yesterday?
    ====

    Somebody suggested the hitch in Joba’s delivery was smoke by the Yankees, but it actually is there.

    There’s a hesitation when he takes his ball from the glove. They’ve tried to keep him moving as he grips the baseball instead of sort of interrupting his delivery.

    Haven’t watched his outing yet so I have no idea what the deal was yesterday. I plan on cueing it up on MLB.TV archives later on and see what’s going on.

  113. matthew frags September 21st, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    “Albert Belle says hey.”

    Did Belle win the gold glove and lead the league in XBH?

  114. Jerkface September 21st, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    I don’t narmally beat children, but, I am very open minded to suggestions.

    Child abuse is a serious issue and I’m sure Pete would appreciate you keeping that filth off this board. He also appreciates if you would bring it to his new red sox blog, as it is the second most popular sport behind Baseball in Boston.

  115. Drive 4-5 September 21st, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    Youkalis’ numbers are very close to Tori Hunter’s. The Angels have had a lot more to overcome than the Red Sox and Kendry Morales helped keep them together. There is little more than Miguel Cabrera in the Tigers lineup.

    My selections would be

    Mauer
    Cabrera
    Tex
    Kendry Morales
    Jason Bay
    Jeter
    Tori Hunter
    Youkalis
    Michael Young

  116. Tom in N.J. September 21st, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    Are you studying military theory, Nick?

  117. Kevin S. September 21st, 2009 at 4:30 pm

    matthew frags, are you arguing for who deserves the MVP, or who will win? Those are two different questions.

  118. matthew frags September 21st, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    “Albert Belle says hey.”

    And he got robbed in 1995 b/c of the pro-BOS lovefest with the national writers. NO WAY Mo Vaughn should’ve won it.

  119. Joba Joba September 21st, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    Jeter #1, tell Mauer to bring his team to the playoffs next year.

  120. BJK September 21st, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    Wait till the ALDS
    September 21st, 2009 at 4:17 pm
    BJK-Not according to you it isn’t.
    You said that Youk has had 7 RBI’s w/RISP and Cano has had 3.
    7-3=4, right?

    ——————————————————–

    Re-read that post. 7 vs 3 is Homeruns, not rbis.

    I was posting in the same format that RICH used.

  121. m September 21st, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    bodhi,

    Thanks for that.

  122. Pat M. September 21st, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    Randy I ( The Original Tin Cup )….Hmmm, I think that I’ve been calling him that since the offseason, not really certain….I do remember clearly boasting that title after his callup in late April and just dominated the Tigers in Detroit…..I think Nick in SF was on board after SJ44 thought his pirlivged upbringing may have influenced his fiber…..He’s not from a wealthy family, just the ordinary middle class Orange County family….Now the fact that most middle class folks in The OC live in million dollar homes and have family incomes in the 200 k bracket may lead some to think of wealth…..Then again Lemon Heights is quite nice and that’s where Young Master Hughes is from…..Actually Ian is a Beach kid, so his parents have dough also…..Actually, it’s cool that he gets some love here now, much different than last offseason

  123. matthew frags September 21st, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    I agree Kevin S. Mauer will win it but I think Tex deserves it.

    1- His defense has transformed the NY infield defense.
    2- He’s played in 21 more games than Mauer
    3- Two-thirds the Triple Crown and AL’s best record

    Heck, I think Morales has been more “valuable” for LAA (given all the injuries, the deaths and losing TEX).

    To me, my list is:

    Teixeira
    Morales
    Mauer
    Cabrera
    Longoria

  124. Wait till the ALDS September 21st, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    BJK-You are right. I apologize.

  125. Nick in NJ September 21st, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    If anyone if the MVP, it’s A-Rod. Ignore the numbers for s asecond, and Alex has darn good ones for a man with a bad hip.

    How were the Yankees doing before A-Rod came along? Not too good, right? Since Alex came back, the Yankees have been far and away the best team in baseball. No coincidence.

    How was Tex before Rodriguez? Tex was one of the worst 1B in baseball. Now, when Alex comes back, Tex turns into Lou Gehrig and is Top 3 in MVP discussion. No coincidence.

    Alex’s first pitch 3-run Hr off of (IIRC) Guthrie was the turning point of the Yankees entire season. He has had a gigantic effect on this team and turned them into World Series contenders, if not favorites. He is your MVP.

  126. Rex September 21st, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    “Did Belle win the gold glove and lead the league in XBH?”

    Teixeira hasn’t won the gold glove yet and won’t before the vot.Yes, Belle led the AL in ExBH’s with 103, the 5th highest total in the history of the game.

  127. Alan September 21st, 2009 at 4:39 pm

    There only one award that really counts. The World Championship trophy as seen when the team is waving at fans for the Canyon of Heroes celebration. Rings are issued shortly after the next season begins.

  128. Nick von Clausewitz in SF September 21st, 2009 at 4:39 pm

    Tom: no… there is a commenter with the handle ‘mcgeorge bundy’ and there was some discussion about how few people would be expected to know who he was because he was most prominent during that great Sea Change Decade of the 1960′s.

    For some reason (not enough coffee?) I thought it would be a good idea to honor a military thinker from an even earlier time — GB7 would be his only contemporary among LoHud regulars.

  129. matthew frags September 21st, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    “Teixeira hasn’t won the gold glove yet and won’t before the vot.Yes, Belle led the AL in ExBH’s with 103, the 5th highest total in the history of the game.”

    And he also led league in SLG! BUT, you can never win when a BOS is considered for the award (unless he’s a DH).

    Just like how Pedroia stole it from Morneau last year.

    Still, we all know (wink-wink) that Tex will win the gold glove.

  130. Sean Serritella September 21st, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    Please vote for Jeter because he never won an mvp before and it will look good with his rings when he retires.

  131. Frank from Chatham September 21st, 2009 at 4:41 pm

    The MVP should come from a team that’s in the post season competition.

    If the TWINS make it, my vote would go to Mauer without question.

    Otherwise, my vote goes to Teixeira not only because he has been an offensive force, but because he has been the difference in making the Yankee infield excellent. Not good but excellent – especially Jeter.

    These two are the outstanding cream. Yes, Ichiro & Cabrera & Youkilis & Jeter are in my conversation but only to fill out the top 5 runners up.

    I would not vote for a pitcher – that’s what the Cy Young award is all about.

    No one from the Rays can be considered since they folded their tent a long time ago.

  132. m September 21st, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    matthew frags,

    You make the best arguments yet. So basically, Mauer’s going to get votes because he has great numbers as a catcher. I still would rather give it to someone who’s having a great season on a team that’s at or near the top of the league.

    But c’est la vie! It’s already been written in stone.

  133. Tom in N.J. September 21st, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    Yeah, I was going to mention that it was realy impressive that you know who he is. Because, as you know, not many youngs people know that. :wink:

  134. ellen September 21st, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    What was LaGreca upset about? I didn’t get to hear it.

  135. Nick von Clausewitz in SF September 21st, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    Sean: I noticed a post of yours yesterday. Your conspiracy theory may very well be correct, but not the exact one you’re thinking of. The “Matt” that annoys so many people with his whines is the not the same commenter as the “matt” who brightened our lives during the game Friday evening.

    Capiche?

  136. RalphieD (OPPC) September 21st, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    “1. Mauer
    2. Greinke

    Gap
    Gap
    Gap

    3. Zobrist
    4. Jeter
    5. Longoria
    6. Figgins
    7. Teixeira
    8. Cabrera
    9. Crawford
    10. Guitierez”

    is there someone else in the AL by the same name as #10….because i sure hope you are not talking about the cf for the mariners..

  137. ... September 21st, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    I know nothing about his defense, but Ted Williams had a Triple Crown year in 1947 and still finished 2nd to DiMaggio in MVP voting. 1942 as well, to… Joe Gordon, it looks like.

  138. Wait till the ALDS September 21st, 2009 at 4:47 pm

    Ted Williams being robbed in 47′ is one of the great injustices of baseball history.

  139. GGBG (Magic Number: 9) September 21st, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    Here is (what I think, at least) an interesting twist on the Mauer for MVP “definition of valuable” argument.

    One of the arguments against Mauer being the MVP is that the team was 11-11 without him and is only 3 games over with him. This is intended to impugn his candidacy as it appears he did not make that much of an impact.

    By the same token
    The Yankees were 13-15 without ARod.
    The Yankees are 82-40 with ARod.

    With that logic you can easily make the case that ARod is the MVP.

    Since no one in their right minds actually believes ARod should be the MVP, it stands to logic that the first assumption is a false one and should be discounted.

  140. Nick von Clausewitz in SF September 21st, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    Tom: it’s sad, but I generally get blank stares when I try to strike up conversations about Prussian military history at Yo La Tengo concerts. :(

  141. Bill September 21st, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    matthew frags,
    Hmm. Your point is basically that the voters have done a lot of weird things lately (Morneau over Jeter–though it should be noted that Mauer deserved that one at least as much–Pedroia over whoever, etc.), so therefore, Teixeira deserves the MVP despite clearly not being the most valuable player (even on his own team)?

    It’s funny you should say “Valuable isn’t about VORP or SLH or OBP or any of that, it takes into account EVERYTHING,” and then argue for picking an MVP based almost entirely on HR and RBI. When things like VORP and WAR *do* attempt to account for everything, while HR and RBI miss just about everything.

    But okay: Mauer has been, by far, the best hitter in the league. Mauer is primarily a catcher, where your average hitter would make a really, really terrible first baseman. Mauer plays great defense at a position that is much more important than first base. Your point about Tex “transforming the whole infield” is something that Yankee fans (and/or broadcasters) completely made up. Considering “EVERYTHING,” even the fact that Mauer missed 21 games, every system in the world that makes any reasonable attempt to try to measure overall value has Mauer way, way ahead of Teixeira (and everyone else). Mauer is the MVP, and it’s absolutely ludicrous to argue for anyone else.

    What I don’t get is how there are still people arguing for Teixeira when Jeter just has an infinitely better case. Still not a good case vis-a-vis Mauer, but a good case to finish second, while Tex probably doesn’t belong in the top ten.

  142. jake [THANKS FOR bringing back shelley] September 21st, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    Who wants to bet Girardi doesnt play everyone in a MUST win series tonight?

    I say damon or Arod have the night off..when the Lineup SHOULD BE:

    1. Jeter
    2. Damon
    3. Tex
    4. Arod
    5. Matsui
    6. Posada
    7. Cano
    8. Swisher
    9. Melky.

  143. GreenBeret7 September 21st, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    You can blame the ridiculous MVP voting on Ted Williams in ’41, 42, and ’47 to two Boston writers, in particular, Dave Egan who made his duty to run Ted williams out of town. Egan was the major reason for Williams’ battles with the media. He was one of those that Williams referred to as the “Knights Of The Keyboards”.

  144. GGBG (Magic Number: 9) September 21st, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    Wait till the ALDS
    September 21st, 2009 at 4:47 pm
    Ted Williams being robbed in 47? is one of the great injustices of baseball history

    ============================================================

    As much as I hate him I’d argue that Pedro Martinez losing in 1999 was a bigger injustice.

    He threw one of the great pitching seasons of all time, including an ERA of 2.07 and a WHIP under 1, almost as many wins (23) as walks (37) while dealing 313 K’s….all the while in the AL East in the height of the steroid era. And he lost it to an obvious steroid guy in Pudge Rodriguez too.

    That is a much bigger injustice to me.

  145. Jonathan September 21st, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    I’m surprised you don’t have Youk as #1

  146. tex's friend September 21st, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    tex is higher on the list than jeter.

  147. Wait till the ALDS September 21st, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    Jeter deserved to win in 99′, not Pudge or Pedro. I am of against the idea of pitchers for MVP.

  148. randy l. September 21st, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    “You tell him to turn around and introduce him to GB7.”

    if i’m in the same line as gb7, i’ve got other problems like escaping before he introduces me to his blunderbuss.

  149. m September 21st, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    Numbers are numbers. Important, to be sure, but I think there’s another facet to be looked at. Who makes a positive impact in the course of a season? Who’s valuable in the context of the league?

    So Mauer’s contributing to a barely .500 team that may or may not make the playoffs depending on if Detroit’s collapse is completed.

    Tex is contributing to, and helping fuel a team that’s currently 40 games over .500.

    So, yes, Mauer’s playing a difficult position and leads the league in 3 major offensive categories.

    But, Tex leads the league in rbi’s, a production category, and will probably pass Pena for the most HR in the AL. Oh, and his team is the best team in baseball at 40 games over .500.

    So, in the context of things, Tex’s contributions are more meaningful. Unfair to be sure, but Tex is more “valuable”.

  150. matthew frags September 21st, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    No doubt Ted Williams should have won in ’47. Just proves voters mostly pick the best player on one of the best teams.

    Just seems odd a Twin wins it in 2006 & 2008, not in 2007 (when a Twin should have won it).

    To lose Santana, Hunter, Garza & Bartlett and still finish tied for DIV title…. WOW. I mean, Garza-Bartlett alone helped TB reach the WS. That was a hefty loss those 4 all-stars. If any year a MIN player should have won the MVP, it was that year!

    To have Peddy win it (despite his stats being worse than Jeter’s 2006 campaign and despite the fact that BOS didn’t even win their DIV) is an injustice.

    I don;t want to sound like Mauer isn’t the MVP, or he doesn’t deserve it…. BUT, he’s only played catcher in 97 games.

    BUT, as another pointed out:

    1- Yanks have cruised since Arod returned and his stats are impressive considering…. Take into acocunt like half his HRs have tied game or put NY ahead….

    2- Then remember the attention Jeter is getting….

    I understand why TEX is losing this battle. Still, playing in 21 more games matters to me. It does. Not sure why.

    Then again, Mauer might still pull away if MIN catches DET.

  151. Bill September 21st, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    I’m not a Yankee fan at all, and I actually think you could make a good case for DiMag in both ’41 and ’47. JoeD was close enough offensively that his being one of the greatest defensive CFs ever to play (while Ted was merely an average LF, if that) probably came really close to making up the difference in hitting. You probably can’t say the same about Joe Gordon in ’42, but he was a Gold Glove-calibre 2B, so it’s closer than it looks. In the same way, even if Tex had somehow been a slightly better hitter than Mauer (and of course he hasn’t been, not close), Mauer would be more deserving because of his defense and position.

    I agree with GGBG that Pedro ’99, and for that matter ’00, was robbed more than any of the three Williams misses.

  152. Sean Serritella September 21st, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    Hey Mr. Capiche,

    It looks as though whoever matt was, forgot to sign a different name because he’s thanking himself.

  153. bdog375 September 21st, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    MVP:
    1. Mauer
    2. Teixeira
    3. Youkilis
    4. Morales
    5. Jeter

    CY YOUNG:
    1. Hernandez
    2. Grienke
    3. Halliday
    4. CC
    5. Verlander

  154. Ed H. September 21st, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    Let’s say that Cashman had not succeeded in convincing ownership to sign Tex last winter and we went with our original plan. Swisher is at first base and Nady is in right. Who then is our number three hitter? Swisher, batting .256? Cano, hitting .212 with RISP? Without Mark, we’re not close to being the best offense in baseball. He’s transformed not only our defense, but our offense too. Mark Teixira is mt MVP, hands down.

    To me, “most valuable” player means the player who has had the greatest impact upon a team. I think Mark has been the biggest difference maker in the league. Without him, I think we’d be pushing for the wild card right now.

  155. Ralow September 21st, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    so long pete…I understand but I still hate you. The flippin Red Sox?? This is ALMOST as bad as 2004.

  156. SJ44 September 21st, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    Tex is not more valuable than Mauer.

    No Mauer on the Twins, they aren’t even close to the being in post-season contention.

    As good as Tex is, without him, the Yankees still have a very good team.

    Folks need to take off the pinstripe glasses on this one.

    As good as Tex has been, Joe Mauer is having a historic season for a man at his position.

    He doesn’t have anywhere near the supporting cast as Tex and still has his team right in the race.

    He’s going to win MVP and its going to be by a wide margin.

  157. Pat M. September 21st, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    Ed H….. That sums it up perfectly…And just think if he did sign with Boston….Can’t even imagine..It was a franchise saving signing

  158. Bill September 21st, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    m- RBIs are basically worthless, “production category” or no. In the context of the league, Mauer has been the more valuable player. The only way Tex has been more valuable is by virtue of playing with a group of 24 guys who are better than the group of 24 guys that Mauer has been stuck with. Is that really something we want to reward (over, say, actually providing more value to his team)?

    Also, the Yankees are 13 games up on a playoff spot and will almost certainly clinch one today or tomorrow. Without Tex, the Yankees are still in the playoffs (no player is worth 13 games, and certainly not Tex). Meanwhile, the Twins are 3 games out and barely hanging in the hunt. Without Mauer, the Twins are 11 games out and have given up on the season long ago. So, again, I don’t know why you’d bother doing this in an award meant to reward individual performance, but even in your “context,” Mauer has clearly been the more valuable player. It’s not close.

    And, again–why are Yanks fans still backing Tex when Jeter has been so incredibly much more valuable (just not as valuable as Mauer)?

  159. matthew frags September 21st, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    “It’s funny you should say “Valuable isn’t about VORP or SLH or OBP or any of that, it takes into account EVERYTHING,” and then argue for picking an MVP based almost entirely on HR and RBI. When things like VORP and WAR *do* attempt to account for everything, while HR and RBI miss just about everything.” (From Bill)

    You’re not hearing me.

    One of the main reasons Jeter is even being talked about is b/c his defense has improved dramatically this year. Why do you think that is? A lot of Jeter’s errors came on wild throws. TEX has saved him numerous times.

    SO, I’m not saying TEX should win MVP just b/c he’ll end up winning two-thirds the triple crown.

    HIs defense has turned the Yanks into a force defensively; turning them around from what they were the year before (below average).

    Also, it means something to me that TEX played in 21 more games. That’s significant.

    Also, I’m not taking anything away from Mauer. BUT, the main reason people are hyping him is b/c he’s finally hit for power (HRs). If he was always a HR hitter, what would the perception be? Who knows….

    Fact is both players are valuable and deserving. FACT also is if MIN ever deserved an MVP it was last year. NOBODY thought MIN would be in contention last year. They finished tied for the DIV. That was incredible!

    So, Tex gets punished b/c his offense is so good and he plays with better players. Fine, I can live with that. BUT, what does that say about how GREAT he is on defense, that he came in and turned this team 180 degrees around on defense?

  160. SJ44 September 21st, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    With Tex, the Yankees “only” have guys like Arod, Jeter, Cano, Damon, CC, AJ, Rivera, Hughes and Jorge Posada. Nine pretty darn good players. Some, first ballot HOF’ers.

    Not exactly lacking in talent.

    Take Mauer off the Twins and who do they have who can be put in the catagory of any of the above Yankees? One guy, Justin Morneau.

    Its not even close. I think Tex will be the runner up but, its Joe Mauer’s award this year.

  161. Chambliss September 21st, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    I am with Ed H. on the MVP discussion.

    The addition of Mark T. totally changed the Yankees. Without Tex, Cashman and Girardi are sprucing up their resumes about now.

  162. Sean Serritella September 21st, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    You can look at it this way… Switch Tex and Mauer and would they have the same impact on their team? If Tex was on the Twins, do you think the Twins would still be in contention?

  163. GreenBeret7 September 21st, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    randy l.
    September 21st, 2009 at 4:59 pm
    “You tell him to turn around and introduce him to GB7.”

    if i’m in the same line as gb7, i’ve got other problems like escaping before he introduces me to his blunderbuss.

    ————————————————————

    LMAO. You’re safe, Randy. Even at fairly close range, it’s hard to hit the target 5 out of 10 times. You’ve got at least a 50% chance.

  164. m September 21st, 2009 at 5:12 pm

    Bill,

    Good points.

    But Jeter isn’t incredibly much more valuable than Tex.

    Tex has helped Jeter as a defender, saving more than a few errors.

    I do give Jeter points for his intangibles. I think his leadership (which is considered in football) also helps drive this team.

    So will Mauer get it because he’s a catcher? Or just the best player on a bad team?

  165. matthew frags September 21st, 2009 at 5:12 pm

    “Also, the Yankees are 13 games up on a playoff spot and will almost certainly clinch one today or tomorrow. Without Tex, the Yankees are still in the playoffs (no player is worth 13 games, and certainly not Tex). Meanwhile, the Twins are 3 games out and barely hanging in the hunt. Without Mauer, the Twins are 11 games out and have given up on the season long ago. So, again, I don’t know why you’d bother doing this in an award meant to reward individual performance, but even in your “context,” Mauer has clearly been the more valuable player. It’s not close.

    And, again–why are Yanks fans still backing Tex when Jeter has been so incredibly much more valuable (just not as valuable as Mauer)?”

    1- That’s the point. EXPLAIN how Pedroia wins it over Morneau? Or how Morneau wins it over Jeter? I mean, if you apply this logic every year…. be fair.

    2- TEX has been more valuable. Way more than Jeter. His defense and power has been the difference maker. Jeter has been great as well, but not more than TEX.

  166. SJ44 September 21st, 2009 at 5:12 pm

    meant to say, “without Tex”. Sorry for the typo.

  167. really? September 21st, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    Bill,

    Tex not in the top 10? Really? Have you seen a Yankees game this season?

  168. Ryan September 21st, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    This is absolutely ridiculous. First of all Joe Mauer has not played in about 1/5 of the season. How can your mvp be a man who missed so many games. Secondly even though he is batting quite high he most likely will struggle to drive in 100. The reason why his rbis are impressive is the same reason why his BA becomes less impressive. Players like Jeter had to grind through injury and soreness while Maurer received so many regular off days.

    Those days that he did grind he played because he knew that even at 50 or 75 percent his team needed him. The less games you play the easier it is to maintain a higher BA.
    I implore you Pete and anyone else thinking Mauer to please make the right choice and go with Jeter. A gold glover and a leader he is the right choice and needs to win.

  169. SJ44 September 21st, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    The Twins aren’t a bad team. Two hot weeks, and they may be a playoff team.

    Mauer will win the MVP because he’s the best player in the league.

    He’s having a historic season for a catcher. He’s also abotu to win his third batting title in 4 years. An incredible accomplishment for a catcher.

    He’s also a great defender. He’s one of the five best all around players in the game.

    He will win it because he deserves it and for no other reason.

  170. matthew frags September 21st, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    Kendry Morales has 30 HRs and 98 RBI.He stepped in when TEX left, carried the club when Hunter, Rivera and Vlad were out. Pitchers were hurt left and right.

    SO, if you base it on surrounding talent; how is Mauer more valuable to his team than Morales?

    People are acting like MIN has zero talent? You do realize Mauer had Morneau hitting behind him this season- for the most part WHO HIT BEHIND MORALES?

  171. Pat M. September 21st, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    Texeria is going to lead the AL in HR’S, RBI’s and may end up hitting .300 …..Gold Glove looks right as well……Mauer & Texeria, may even be a push….However he’l be not getting Ryan’s ( Boston Globe ) or Shaunnesy ( Boston Blobe ) or whoever gets to vote from Beantown

  172. m September 21st, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    And RBI is absolutely a relevant stat. Driving in a run > not driving in a run. Too bad, so sad that you play for a team that puts on fewer base runners. :P Okay that was kind of mean.

    But you can’t ignore RBI.

  173. Nick von Clausewitz in SF September 21st, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    Sean S: agreed about that part, but that “matt” who was thanking “matt” is not the same “Matt” who waits to pounce whenever the team isn’t up by 5 runs by the 6th inning.

  174. Kevin S. September 21st, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    “Why do you think that is? A lot of Jeter’s errors came on wild throws. TEX has saved him numerous times.”

    Actually, Jeter only has four fewer errors this year, not a huge difference. What Jeter has greatly improved is his range, something Teix has no control over.

  175. art September 21st, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    Another thing that bothers me: The reasoning that someone deserves the MVP because his numbers are amazing for a catcher or because if he’s playing the whole season with a bad hip. Joe Mauer should be the MVP because he has amazing numbers period. A-Rod should not be in the conversation because he missed a good month of the season. Yes, his numbers are decent for the amount of time he’s played, but that doesn’t make him the MVP.

    You can’t look at the historical offensive production from that position, or look at the physical obstacles that player has been going through during the season. The question simply is: Who is the most valuable player to their team?

  176. Mark in Tampa September 21st, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    Morneau and Mauer will play almost exactly the same number of games, because Mauer missed just about the first month of the season, and Morneau the last month. However, Morneau has no possible shot at MVP because he is out now, even though his numbers(runs, HR, RBIs) will be almost identical.

  177. Ace September 21st, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    Mauer is the MVP.

  178. Kevin S. September 21st, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    “And RBI is absolutely a relevant stat. Driving in a run > not driving in a run. Too bad, so sad that you play for a team that puts on fewer base runners. :P Okay that was kind of mean.

    But you can’t ignore RBI.”

    Joe Mauer is one of the best in baseball at driving others in. He’s third in OBI% (min. 400 PA). Teixeira’s 36th. Yes, Teix drives himself in by hitting more HR, but that’s already considered in their home run differences. Mauer’s better at driving runners in than Teix is, especially RISP.

    http://www.baseballprospectus......cid=537413

  179. betsy September 21st, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    I can’t get too into this argument, but I really don’t think without Tex the Yankees would be in first place. He’s made such a huge difference, not just offensively but defensively. Either SJ or CB said it many times, if the Sox had Tex, they would have run away with the division. To me, that makes it sound as if the Sox didn’t really need him to compete, but the Yankees did. The Yankees wouldn’t be nearly as good without him and if we say that they would be, then how can we say that he was a difference maker in the division?

    Joe D winning the MVP over Ted Williams’ Triple Crown year (the year Joe D hit in 56 games) is ridiculous. It’s a great record, but IMO, it’s somewhat overrated in comparison to others.

  180. Bill September 21st, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    matthew frags:

    So Teixeira deserves the MVP because he’s not Jason Giambi? The Yankees had the worst defensive 1B in baseball last year–Tex doesn’t deserve any extra credit for simply not being terrible. Also,it’s just incorrect that Tex is the reason Jeter has improved. His fielding percentage has improved, and that’s worth a run or two (and who knows if those four extra errors were missed throws or muffed grounders?). But the overall improvement is about seven runs, and the rest of the difference is that Jeter is somehow getting to more grounders–turning more hits into outs. Tex has nothing to do with that.

    “Also, I’m not taking anything away from Mauer. BUT, the main reason people are hyping him is b/c he’s finally hit for power (HRs). If he was always a HR hitter, what would the perception be? Who knows….”
    This is a mistaken assumption. I imagine people have all sorts of reasons for backing Mauer, but I and annoying people like me back him because he actually measures out as the most valuable player in the league (maybe second to Greinke, but that’s a whole ‘nother can of worms). It doesn’t matter (to me) what the perception of him is or would be. But for the record, I think he should have been the MVP in ’08 (certainly more deserving than Morneau) and ’06, even without the HR power.

    “1- That’s the point. EXPLAIN how Pedroia wins it over Morneau? Or how Morneau wins it over Jeter? I mean, if you apply this logic every year…. be fair.

    2- TEX has been more valuable. Way more than Jeter. His defense and power has been the difference maker. Jeter has been great as well, but not more than TEX.”
    1. Are you asking me to justify the voters? I’d love for the voters to be fair (and be right). But they almost never are. Jeter or Mauer should’ve won it in ’06. Pedroia or Mauer should’ve won it in ’08. But you can’t change the past, you can only change the voters’ minds (or the voters themselves) and hope they get better in the future.
    2. I understand that’s your opinion, but Jeter has been more valuable than Tex by any reasonable measure.

  181. art September 21st, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    “Morneau and Mauer will play almost exactly the same number of games, because Mauer missed just about the first month of the season, and Morneau the last month. However, Morneau has no possible shot at MVP because he is out now, even though his numbers(runs, HR, RBIs) will be almost identical.”

    Morneau’s BA: .274
    Mauer’s BA: .374

  182. Kevin S. September 21st, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    “You can’t look at the historical offensive production from that position, or look at the physical obstacles that player has been going through during the season. The question simply is: Who is the most valuable player to their team?”

    No, but you can look at the available talent to replace him. If the Yanks didn’t have Teix, the options available to replace him at first base hit a heck of a lot better than the Twins’ options to replace Mauer behind the plate (and that’s not even considering each team’s resources).

  183. m September 21st, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    Too bad Morneau wasn’t a catcher, too. They could be co-MVPs.

    Mauer didn’t miss much time in the scheme of things. But he hasn’t played every game he’s been active at the catcher position.

  184. Sean Serritella September 21st, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    Nick,

    I can care less about who’s being a phony on the internet. That was a couple of days ago. I thought it was funny that some one was trying to stick up for themselves by pretending to be some one else.

  185. randy l. September 21st, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    bad news for nick in sf and pat m. in the search for earliest use of “young master hughes” i found this:

    http://darthbossgeorge.blogspo.....write.html

    Friday, February 23, 2007

    And they are all drooling over young Master Hughes…
    HUGHES DA MAN By GEORGE KING – New York Post:

  186. Backbench September 21st, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    Still believe the WSJ piece on Jeter getting the MVP for the bigger picture is something we all should consider. He has been the MVP of baseball this season, not just the AL.

  187. Nick von Clausewitz in SF September 21st, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    Considering the fact that Johnny Damon is responsible not just for his own production but also that of Philip Hughes, Damon is probably the easy MVP, but of course ignorance will prevent that from being recognized and awarded. :mad:

  188. Bill September 21st, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    To “really?”-

    Sure, I’ve seen some Yankees games. Have you watched as many Twins, Rays, Angels, Red Sox, Royals and Mariners games as you have Yankees games, so that you can compare your eye-witness perception of Tex’s value to your perception of all the other guys’ values? Or maybe an objective approach makes just a little more sense?

    Teixeira certainly hasn’t been one of the five most valuable players in the league. I think you’d have a tough case arguing that he belongs in the top ten, but I guess he’s fairly close.

  189. art September 21st, 2009 at 5:27 pm

    “You can’t look at the historical offensive production from that position, or look at the physical obstacles that player has been going through during the season. The question simply is: Who is the most valuable player to their team?”

    No, but you can look at the available talent to replace him. If the Yanks didn’t have Teix, the options available to replace him at first base hit a heck of a lot better than the Twins’ options to replace Mauer behind the plate (and that’s not even considering each team’s resources).”

    Teams have a much harder time finding quality catchers than quality first basemen. Under that logic, a catcher will always have a leg up on being the most valuable players to its team, right? I understand that reasoning, but it just doesn’t sit well with me.

    This year, it doesn’t make much of a difference because I think that Mauer is definitively a MVP, regardless of the fact that he is a catcher. But if his numbers were worse than Tex’s all across the board in every possible category…does that mean we handicap him because he’s a catcher and he would have a leg up on Tex because of his position?

  190. Tracy September 21st, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    WRT the Mauer/Teixeira debate:

    1 – Mauer has driven in 20% of baserunners, compared to 18% for Teixeira. However, Teixeira has had 170 more runners on base (partly because Mauer has hit second about 25% of the time). Given the same number of baserunners, they would have the same number of RBI.

    2 – Mauer is hitting 381/481/619 with RISP. Teixeira is hitting 270/398/491 with RISP. With 2 out and RISP, mauer is hitting 419/583/698.

    Mauer’s the MVP, and it’s not close.

  191. Nick von Clausewitz in SF September 21st, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    Sean S: we are not in disagreement, but I noticed you mentioning the incident in regards to a different “Matt” a couple times, so I was just pointing out to you that the “Matt” who makes long, agonized posts about how the team is letting him down is not the same person as the “matt” from the other night. That’s all!

  192. m September 21st, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    randy l,

    lol. Not even a LoHud original.

  193. Rishi September 21st, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    RiverAveBlues: Since the ASB, Jason Varitek is hitting 158/.250/.242.
    ———————————

    can’t find anything, but desperately trying to change the topic :)

  194. Kevin S. September 21st, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    “Under that logic, a catcher will always have a leg up on being the most valuable players to its team, right? I understand that reasoning, but it just doesn’t sit well with me.”

    Yes. Typically, the other positions make it up by producing more offensively.

    “But if his numbers were worse than Tex’s all across the board in every possible category…does that mean we handicap him because he’s a catcher and he would have a leg up on Tex because of his position?”

    You could either subjectively eyeball it to whatever you felt comfortable with, or you could use a WAR calculation to find out if the positional adjustment was worth the difference in offense, but yes, Mauer gets bonus points for being a catcher, regardless. Handing the MVP to the best hitter ignores the other aspects of the game. If you have any background in economics, think of value as opportunity cost.

  195. Tom in N.J. September 21st, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    Hmm. Anybody else being have a survey pop out and ask if you were planning on buying a shower rod?

  196. Bill September 21st, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    “Mauer didn’t miss much time in the scheme of things. But he hasn’t played every game he’s been active at the catcher position.”

    How many catchers play every game? Mauer deserves *extra* credit for being in the lineup as DH when other catchers would be on the bench (this is where I disagree with a lot of my fellow statheads).

    Incidentally, Mauer will end up playing 137 games (barring injury–Gardy has already said he won’t get a day off, though I suppose if they fall out of it in the last few that might change). Juan Gonzalez won it playing 134, Barry Larkin 131 (in a shortened season, but still), Barry Bonds 130, Bonds again 140, Willie Stargell 126. And George Brett won it playing 117! 137 games for a guy who is primarily a catcher seems awfully reasonable to me. And then of course you’ve got starting pitchers and closers who have won it too…

  197. art September 21st, 2009 at 5:34 pm

    Thanks Kevin S. that’s a good way to think about it.

  198. Sean Serritella September 21st, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    Ok Nick. I like “Matt” with the capital “M” because he seems to have the doom and gloom take on life as I do.

  199. Nick von Clausewitz in SF September 21st, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    randy: it’s quite possible that none of us here used any variation of the phrase because of George King’s usage. It’s not such a groundbreaking phrase that multiple people couldn’t have come up with it seperately.

    But if you can find someone who wrote “Young Master Philip” on LoHud before I did, kudos to them and you.

    I would key in on the morning of May 15, 2009 for the original comment that SJ44 made, btw.

  200. m September 21st, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    Bill,

    If we didn’t have a real DH, you better believe Posada would be there to take his hacks on his “off” days.

  201. randy l. September 21st, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    “Even at fairly close range, it’s hard to hit the target 5 out of 10 times. You’ve got at least a 50% chance.”

    gb7-

    yeah , but somehow i think you’d bring your bunderbuss A game if you had me in your sights.

    i really don’t like getting shot. the only time i have been shot was when i shot myself with a bb gun trying to talk some of my friends into having a bb gun game of tag. i told them as long as we shot each other in our jeans it wouldn’t hurt.

    they said prove it so i took my bb gun and shot myself in the leg.

    the next few minutes were composed of me rolling around like one of the three stooges screaming in pain as the bb went right threw my jeans and about an 1/8 inch into my leg much to the delight of my friends who were laughing like hyenas .

    no , i think i’ll keep healthy distance from you and your blunderbuss.

  202. Kevin S. September 21st, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    “If we didn’t have a real DH, you better believe Posada would be there to take his hacks on his “off” days.”

    One of the many reasons I’m hoping Matsui isn’t resigned is because the DH next year should primarily be Posada and Damon getting time away from the field. Generally, I don’t like using the DH in that fashion, but with all the Yanks’ old fogeys, it makes sense.

  203. matthew frags September 21st, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    Bill- Again, I don’t want to take anything away from Mauer. He deserves everything and anything he gets. A great guy and a great hitter. His defense is excellent, and he’s managing a very young pitching staff. He’s also having an historic season. Sure. BUT, he’ll end up only catching about 110 games. DH in about 30. Missing about 22.

    He is by far the best hitter and toughest out in baseball. He should be the MVP if you just break down the numbers.

    BUT, according to what the voters have looked at in the past, they seek more…. This is exactly why Dustin Pedroia won the award last year. It made a joke of the entire system giving him the MVP.

    I think Tex is deserving for what I’ve stated. He fits the bill of what voters look for.

    He’s on a winning team and he has those sexy numbers.

    That’s all.

    You’re probably right though. IN a normal year that would be enough. BUT, as good as Mauer is he’s even better this year. So this isn’t a normal year. On top of that, Jeter or Arod might even be more valuable (depends on who you talk to).

    Where do you stand on Morales?

  204. Ed H. September 21st, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    No question. I think that Mauer is a great player, probably even a historic player. That doesn’t make him the 2009 AL MVP.

    It’s hard to make the argument that Mauer has been a huge difference maker for the Twins this year. They played .500 ball when he was hurt and are three games over that with him playing. The Twins are a mediocre team with him and they were a mediocre team without him. They may be wind up division champs in the worst division in MLB, but that’s more of an embarrassment than an accomplishment. (The Twins play in a division that is cumulatively 44 games below .500 while the Yanks play in a division that is 42 games above .500. But I digress.)

    Look, I’m a former catcher and am as partial to catchers and as respectful of the difficulty of playing that position as most anyone. In terms of making an impact, adding value to a team, Mauer has not done what Tex did this year.

  205. m September 21st, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    Ed H,

    The argument is that without Mauer, they’d be an even worse team. Like way worse.

  206. Lambchop Louie September 21st, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    “Nails” Dykstra is holding a yard sale on all his baseball hardware / dust collectors. Bankruptcy ahead.

  207. Jerkface September 21st, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    One of the many reasons I’m hoping Matsui isn’t resigned is because the DH next year should primarily be Posada and Damon getting time away from the field. Generally, I don’t like using the DH in that fashion, but with all the Yanks’ old fogeys, it makes sense.

    I think that there absolutely should be a true DH at the position. Matsui has been absolutely fine in a more limited role this season. There will be lots of opportunity to rest Damon and Posada. Keep in mind that they still need to actually be benched some of the time to physically recouperate. Especially leg ailments if they have to be running around the bases as a DH.

    Matsui is the perfect guy because he needs regular rest as well.

    Going into next season with a revolving DH would end up a mistake, especially if one of your ‘DH candidates’ goes down with an injury and then you’re out both a regular player and a DH, you’re effectively crippling 2 spots in the order.

    A deep bench and a solid DH can go hand in hand.

  208. Jerkface September 21st, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    if I were the yankees I’d look at trading for Milton Bradley to platoon with Matsui and backup all our OFers next season. Cubs will eat payroll and we can foist someone on them maybe (Igawa? :) )

    Milton was a great defender when he actually got in the field for texas last year and was a very good batter. His patient and power minded approach will fit in well as a kind of ‘black nick swisher’.

    I would definitely take him over Xavier Nady

  209. Bill September 21st, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    matthew frags,
    Fair enough…although I think Pedroia had a solid case last year based on the numbers (Mauer’s case was a little better, but they would’ve been #1 and #2 for me). Morneau’s selection would’ve been much more of a joke, as he wasn’t even the most valuable player on his own team (much like when he won it in 2006…this should be Mauer’s 3rd MVP), and the voters were ONLY looking at RBI in voting him second (not even “HR and RBI,” since he only hit 23). Morneau even totally collapsed down the stretch and basically lost the Twins the division while Mauer was hitting about .400 in September. So if that’s the “more” the voters are looking for, I don’t want any part of it.

    Morales has had a nice season, but he’s not terribly close to being MVP.

    Ed H.- yeah, I suppose it’s “hard to make the argument that Mauer has been a huge difference maker for the Twins” if you put waaaaaay too much stock in 22 games and don’t understand statistics in any way. The Twins managed to play .500 ball without him because they had a rookie catcher playing over his head and got incredibly lucky (they were significantly outscored in April and should have been well below .500). The Royals and Pirates played .500 ball in April, too, so obviously that told you a lot. If you’re going to make decisions based on data slices like that, you’re going to make a whole lot of awful decisions.

  210. Bueller September 21st, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    For those of you that don’t pay attention this year should be Mauer’s third (yes as in 1, 2 & 3) MVP. He also should have beaten Morneau in 2006 and Pedroia last year. You could even make a case for a “life-time achievement award” for him this year. He’s just better, not that Jeter is bad in any way.

    He’s extremely deserving of the award.

  211. Backbench September 21st, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    Is there a question of context here? Mauer has played in 22 games against ALE teams. In those 22 games, the Twins won 6. (22%).

    He has 79 ABs and 26 hits. 33% Very good, but not great and certainly in the same range as Jeter, for example. There is something to be said for ABs against the likes of ALE pitching vs ALC pitching (beyond Verlander and Greinke).

  212. Chambliss September 21st, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    If Mauer is the MVP because he cannot be replaced, Mo wins MVP hands down because without Mo the Yankees would have 6 fewer wins at a minimum.

  213. m September 21st, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    Jerkface,

    Yup. What happens if (heaven forbid) Damon (likely), Jorge (possibly), or Alex (probably) need extended time off?

  214. Sean Serritella September 21st, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    I’ll tell ya. Some of you guys are good with your analysis. Some of you should think about starting your own blog. It would do well considering how passionate and how much knowledge some of you have.(Not all but some)

  215. Jerkface September 21st, 2009 at 5:52 pm

    Infact, I might consider Milton Bradley over Matsui if Matsui retires.

    I am now making this my offseason mission. Cashman, get Milton cheap!

  216. pete September 21st, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    this year, mauer has been practically pujols-like, statistically. If anybody in the league were within sixteen galaxies of his production, maybe i’d think about voting for them based on irrelevant things (in terms of a single player’s production) like whether or not his team had good enough pitching and/or a deep enough offense to make the playoffs. And to answer somebody’s question about “when did MVP become about SLG and OBP?,” well, hopefully around now, when people are starting to recognize that those are MUCH more important statistics than HRs, and i’m not even going to discuss the ridiculous, “win”-like notion of RBIs. Now if Mauer had 6 hrs this year, it’d be a different story. (although if he were still OPSing 1.100 with 6 hrs, I’d probably still be in so much awe that i would vote for him anyway). But he has over 20. And is a way better hitter than anybody else in the league. And plays catcher. Well. He is having about as good of an all-around season as anybody not named A-Rod, Bonds, Ruth, Gherig, Mays, Aaron, or Pujols has ever had. Tex, meanwhile, is producing as a first baseman should be expected to produce, perhaps a little better.

  217. Betsy September 21st, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    GB, have you heard of the Kehoe House? That’s where my parents and I will be staying in Savannah – we’re only there for 2 nights. We tried the President’s Quarters ( I would have loved to have stayed in the Lincoln room, lol), but that was booked up……

  218. GreenBeret7 September 21st, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    Mauer has caught in 95 games this year. He’s pinch hit 5 times and DHed 26 times. He’s played in 124 games, total. He’s gone into the catching or DH position 2 times after pinching hitting, so although he’s had an outstanding season, to say that he’s caught 124 games so far is wrong. Look back at the catchers who have won MVPs and they’ll average more than 140 games behind the plate. He’s been a catcher for 75% of his games.

    The two most notable exceptions are Munson and Mickey Cochran, though Munson did play 11 games in the ouutfield in 1976.

  219. Tom from Worcester, MA September 21st, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    While I think that Mauer is great and deserves to win, why is there no real talk about Tex? He leads the league in RBIs, is second in homeruns and plays a gold glove first base that has saved his teammates countless errors. He has practically carried the Yankees for several months.

    Oh, and if the award is truly measuring value of a player to his team and not just statistics, then A-Rod is the MVP. His team was floundering when he wasn’t in the lineup and since he came back his team has the best record in baseball. That’s pretty valuable no?

  220. YankeesLuv September 21st, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    I think the MVP is Mauer, no shame in saying so. He’s had a special season, special player and as a Yankee fan I have to give credit where credit is due. I’ve said this before but I’m not sure who the mvp of the Yankees has been this year, could be 3 or 4 different guys.

  221. GreenBeret7 September 21st, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    Betsy
    September 21st, 2009 at 5:53 pm
    GB, have you heard of the Kehoe House? That’s where my parents and I will be staying in Savannah – we’re only there for 2 nights. We tried the President’s Quarters ( I would have loved to have stayed in the Lincoln room, lol), but that was booked up……

    ————————————————————

    You’ll love the rooms, Betsy. They’re beautiful. Located a couple of blocks from Bay and River streets. Lots of shops. It’s on Habersham. Cooked to order breakfasts and afternoon teas. Very much southern gentility. Your mother will love being a southern belle.

  222. Ed H. September 21st, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    m September 21st, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    Ed H,

    The argument is that without Mauer, they’d be an even worse team. Like way worse.

    ——————

    m,

    That might be true, but if the point of the “championship season” is to win a championship, his contribution might not be that valuable.

    A lot of it depends on how you define the term “most valuable player.” If you base it exclusively upon offensive statistical output, you can legitimately give the award to someone on a last place team, as has happened before and will probably happen again. To me, that’s a different award from Most Valuable Player, an award that does not currently exist.

  223. GreenBeret7 September 21st, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    Betsy, you would have been better off asking for The Jefferson Davis Bedroom. You would sound less like a tourist. LMAO.

  224. disco stu September 21st, 2009 at 6:06 pm

    I think anyone Yankee fan with an iota of objectivity knows that Derek Jeter is not going to win the 2009 AL MVP as of this moment.

    Could that change between now and the end of the season … perhaps. If the Yankees continue to swoon just enough where Boston closes the gap even further and then, Jeter goes on a hit barrage starting in the Red Sox series and helps secure the AL East for the Yankees, while at the same time, the Twins fade down the stretch to the Tigers and Mauer doesnt do much, then maybe I can see the support come back to Jeter like it was prior to September 1st.

    But Jeter has not done anything off the charts so far this month, the Yankees are stumbling now, and other players (like Mauer and Tex) have stepped up their game even further. So his support is dwindling.

  225. someone September 21st, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    Jeter isn’t the MVP of the team. Texiera is.

  226. Eric September 21st, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    “Did I mentioned that he is a catcher?”

    He’s a catcher that missed the entire first month of the season, and has well over ONE HUNDRED plate appearances as a DH. Jeter and Teixeira are out there every single game, playing outstanding defense. Mauer is an average defensive catcher, throwing out the lowest % of runners in his career, and he’s only started 97 games at catcher.

    His “close and late” stat is among the worst of any of his splits, where he’s batting way way below his season average a .317. Jeter is batting .351 close and late.

    As great of a season as he’s having, a a guy who splits time at DH/C, who missed the entire first month of the season hasn’t done enough to deserve an MVP. But don’t let facts hit you in the butt on the way out, Pete.

  227. Betsy September 21st, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    GB, thanks! I guess I’ll pack the ball gown and fan that I bought a few years ago……

    I would have thought asking for the John Wilkes Booth room would have been more approrpriate………

  228. Betsy September 21st, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    appropriate……

  229. GreenBeret7 September 21st, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    Betsy
    September 21st, 2009 at 6:24 pm
    appropriate……

    ————————————————————

    For God’s sake, don’t ask where William T. Sherman stayed, either.

    I left this message on the next subject board, too, with a link and photos of the Inn.

  230. JE September 21st, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    “September 21st, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Who determines the schedule? I do not understand why the Yanks have to go to the West Coast at the end of Sept, while the Red Sucks get to play cake games at home….Maybe I am disgruntled that the Red Sox are winning and Yanks are losing, but to me, the schedules seems bias….”

    Quit kvetching about bias, Robbykidd: did you know that the Yankees are not playing games on the last FOUR Thursdays (10 Sep, 17, 24, 1 Oct) of the regular season??? Meanwhile, the only vacation days for the Sox were the 10th and 14th.

  231. woj September 21st, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    I honestly don’t think the MVP award is that. I think that writers tend to lean on stats because there is physical proof that that player put up big numbers. Honestly we shouldn’t worry about this, we should look at this next series at what I think is a probably alcs matchup.

  232. jeff September 21st, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    did anyone mention yet that mauer missed the first month of the season? probably, but i’m not scrolling back. still the play he made on gardiner in that extra inning win vs. the twins was the best play i’ve seen since derek’s flip throw.

  233. jeff September 21st, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    DL apr 2 – return may 2.. estimated he’ll play 135 games this year … 2 position players have played that few since the 162 schedule in a non-strike year and won the MVP (juan gon in 96, rickey hen in 90)… that surprised me. If you are an MVP would expect you didn’t miss a month of the season.

  234. JE September 21st, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    “If you are an MVP would expect you didn’t miss a month of the season.”

    If that is what is being said about Mauer this season, how does one explain Manny coming in fourth in the NL MVP voting last year?

  235. E-gawa September 21st, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    To put some perspective on how much catching Mauer has done this year.. He’s caught 4 more games than Posada has.

  236. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing September 21st, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    erkface
    September 21st, 2009 at 5:52 pm
    Infact, I might consider Milton Bradley over Matsui if Matsui retires.
    I am now making this my offseason mission. Cashman, get Milton cheap!

    *******************************************

    The same Milton Bradley who got suspended for attitude problems?

    Ack. Some fans seem unable to handle Joba’s answers. I hate to think how they’d handle Milton Bradley, lol.

  237. Jeter2007 September 21st, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    it’s not really about “leadership”. and it isn’t solely on #’s… but mauer’s #s ARE amazing. and he is a catcher. catchers have to do and know so much more than even a shortstop. unless mauer took a huge dive, he’s probably going to win it – and deserve it. i’d rather jeter win another ring !!!

  238. pft September 21st, 2009 at 8:02 pm

    Mauer and Youk (I am a Red Sox fan) missed too many games. Plus Mauer started 26 games as DH, and DH do not win MVP’s (remeber Big Papi). As catcher he has started 97 games leaving the backup to catch 50, plus he plays in a very week division and only has 38 AB against the top ten starters in the AL.

    Not a Yankee fan, but see many games as they are Taiwans team and every game is broadcast. Teixeira is definitely the MVP, of the Yankees anyways. Jeter had a nice year, the new stadium helps his power numbers and his BA is high plus he has improved defensively. Teixeira however made the entire IF defense of the Yankees improve, and offensively he is the big thunder. It’s one thing to get on base, but someone has to drive them in. Of course, the Yankees have gotten offensive contributions from everyone so that hurts his case for overall MVP. Jeter at one point went 100 PA without a walk, but fortunately Damon behind him works the count.

    The MVP really should be Cabrera if the Tigers win their division. Without Cabrera the Tigers have nothing offensively and finish under 500. If Mauer started 150 games I would vote from him, but he didn’t (won’t).

  239. 86w183 September 21st, 2009 at 9:36 pm

    Youkilis is having the same year as Alex Rodriguez with a bit higher average at a much easier defensive position. He’s missed 24 games. Jason Bay is the only Boston player who belongs in the conversation.

    With all due love anf fawning to the Captain, Teixiera should finish second with Morales third. Jeter top five for sure, Mariano top ten.

    No disrespect, but anyone considering putting Grienke on an MVP ballot should go ahead and schedule the lobotomy.

    OK, that was disrespect, but seriously? You don’t think the Royals could finish last without him? He’s the Royals’ Most Valuable Player…. he’s not one of the top 50 in the AL let alone ten.

  240. TJ September 21st, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    Someone is channeling their inner RedSox fan already.
    ……and he did such a good job of keeping it in check for so very long!
    How ’bout them Pats?
    It’s amazing how Mr. Wonderful comes back to earth whenever he’s pressured and he doesn’t get prior notice of what the defense is going to do.

  241. Bill September 21st, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    “DL apr 2 – return may 2.. estimated he’ll play 135 games this year … 2 position players have played that few since the 162 schedule in a non-strike year and won the MVP (juan gon in 96, rickey hen in 90)… that surprised me. If you are an MVP would expect you didn’t miss a month of the season.”

    One of the reasons that that may have surprised you is that it’s complete BS. George Brett played 117 (!!!!) in 1980. Elston Howard played 135 in 1963, and Mickey Mantle played 123 in 1962. I assume that bad info you got was AL-only, but Stargell played 126 games in 1979, and Bonds played 130 in 2003. And then of course you’ve got Eckersley’s whopping 80 innings in 1992.

    None of this matters. Brett missed a third of the season and was still the deserving MVP, just as Mauer is the obviously correct choice in 2009. If you provide more value to your team than anybody else provides to his team, you should win the MVP. Mauer has done that, missed month and all, and by far.

    86w183: Youkilis has been quite a bit better than A-Rod, but as wrong ar you are about that, Jeter wins out over Teixeira by a much larger margin. And Morales has no business in the conversation.

    And the stuff about Greinke…ugh. A player is exactly as valuable as he is no matter what team he plays on. Greinke has provided about 8 wins worth of value to the Royals. If he played for the Yankees or Angels, his value would be about 8 wins. He is, simply, a more valuable player than Teixeira or Morales or Youkilis or probably Jeter. There’s no logical reason to consider team performance in the MVP discussion, you have to really twist the definition of “value” to do so, and it clearly was never intended to be part of the consideration. People need to stop mangling Branch Rickey quotes and do some thinking for themselves about this. It really is pretty simple.

  242. Paul V September 22nd, 2009 at 12:03 am

    If you want to make the playoffs, you don’t pitch a loser like Bruney, plain and simple. Why Girardi trots him out there and why Cashman keeps him is beyond me. Do not even try to defend him: his massive screw-ups FAR outweigh the occasional decent innings he has had. Stats don’t lie. They have such a good team, yet they persist in keeping this retread mutant.

  243. Turtle September 22nd, 2009 at 11:04 am

    Where are the Twins with Mauer? – Missing the playoffs! Where are the Twins without Mauer? – Missing the playoffs!

    He’s having a great season, but Most Valuable?

    The Yankees were missing the playoffs before Tex got hot. Now they have the best record in the game. That seems pretty valuable to me.

  244. Kevin September 22nd, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    This is why the “Most Valuable” part of the award is stupid. Yes, Joe Mauer’s team would not make the playoffs if the season ended right now.

    Because Joe Mauer’s team is made up of Joe Mauer (who is ridiculously awesome at baseball) and 24 players who did not discover the game of baseball until they opened Wikipedia earlier this season. I exaggerate, but seriously. The Twins would have a negative winning percentage if it were not for Joe Mauer.

    Derek Jeter is having a great year. I am a Derek Jeter fan. He’s probably the best-hitting shortstop since Honus Wagner. And he is the second-most valuable player in the American League this year.

  245. Chase September 30th, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    Mauer hands down. He missed a month or so and look at his numbers. Best catcher in baseball when it comes to defense. The bad thing is that being catcher could lead to him breaking down early :(

    Steinbrenner’s checkbook should be the only thing from NYY that can be in the discussion. When you spend $500 billion dollars on a line up, of course they’re going to score a lot.


Sponsored by:
 

Search

    Advertisement

    Follow

    Mobile

    Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.

Advertisement

Place an ad

Call (914) 694-3581