Time to reward Girardi?
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 25, 2009 
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Both Tyler Kepner and Mark Feinsand wrote excellent stories today on Joe Girardi and the adjustments he made this season in how he handled the team.
It’s easy to say that having Mark Teixeira, CC Sabathia, Nick Swisher and a healthy Andy Pettitte helped make him a better manager. But I do believe Girardi took the right steps to change his approach, both with the team and with the media.
It started in spring training and if you were reading the blog then, it was a topic here several times. Girardi trusted his veteran players to lead the team, he gave his coaches more input and he was far more candid with the media. The many needlessly uncomfortable moments that arose in and out of the clubhouse 2008 were rare in 2009.
Not coincidentally, the Yankees are speeding toward 100 wins and have the best team in baseball.
Girardi has one more season on his contract. If the Yankees get back to the World Series, it’ll be interesting to see whether the Yankees extend his deal or treat the manager like Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada and Andy Pettitte and make him wait.
If the Yankees get to the World Series, Girardi deserves an extension. In my mind, he doesn’t have to even win it, he just needs to get there. Of course I’d love for us to win it all and I would expect that if we could get past whoever we would play in the ALCS we possibly could but St. Louis with Carpenter and Wainwright and Philly could be very tough in the WS>
The more interesting question will be what happens if the Yankees don’t make it to the WS or, worse, don’t get out of the first round? IMO, unless Joe makes egregious errors, in that case – he should return. Much as with the Mets, though, questions would need to be asked about the Yankees because that would be too many years where they failed to live up to their ability/got outplayed by an inferior team. Unlike with the Mets, there’s really nothing the Yankees can do about it because the Yankees core will remain until they all retire.
late to the party.
from the previous thread.
Whats up fellas.
I think the Yankees should celebrate the division by throwing the tarp on the field. Spraying the tarp with bubblies and doing the slip n slide all on it while getting drunk. Whos with me?
To add from this post. Have the extension ready to sign on the tarp once we win #27.
My prediction: Girardi will be re-signed at some point. It takes a certain kind of person to manage in NY. If they let Girardi go, it’ll almost be like being back to square one. I’d be really surprised if Jeter, Mo, or Posada are managed by anyone else. The last thing this veteran team needs is managerial tumult. This isn’t Colorado or Milwaukee.
Long term success for a team usually invloves at least a degree of continuity. I would extend Joe’s deal. 2008 was a horror show of injuries to key people for long periods of time (Posada, Wang, Matsui). The team did the best it could. 2009 he kept the team going in the right direction while waiting for ARod to return. He didn’t panic when the NYY were 0-8 vs the Sox. He has always done a great job with handling the pitching staff, bullpen in particular. And he has improved dramatically in his dealings with the media. I remember last year there were so many awkward postgames with Joe trying to “explain” injuries. The players seem to love playing for him and he handles himself in a professional manner.
When they clinch the division in the next few days, the team needs to get Joe with a pie. He deserves it.
It’s been pretty noticeable how much he has changed. He’s a smart guy, he learns, and I think he’s only going to get better as time goes on.
I think Joe G has already shown that he’s the right man for the job, right now. Consider this: if not him, who else? Joe G has the team in line for 100 wins and in the playoffs. Who else is both available and can do that? [I know, rhetorical question.... my point is, even if the Yanks flame out in the ALDS, Joe Girardi is the right manager and should be brought back.]
What about AL Manager of the Year? You have to figure the two top candidates are Girardi and Texas’s manager, and with Texas fading, you lean towards Girardi?
I am starting to hyperventilate thinking about the playoffs. I’m beginning to think I’m not going to be able to actually watch them. I don’t know how these guys do it.
It has nothing to do with whether or not I think they can win – I do believe they can. There’s just so much that can happen. I wish I didn’t care.
Doreen – I know exactly how you feel…even when I can watch on TV I watch other things when the game gets tense and follow along on gameday
To the subject at hand, Joe has done a great job this year. He has recognized and worked toward improving his deficiencies as a Yankees manager; he has successfully navigated the season with regard to “rotating” his players – there are very few on this team who seem over-worked or dragging, both position players and bullpen guys.
I don’t know if the Yankees will extend him if they win the WS, but I don’t think they’ll fire him if they don’t win it.
Does Girardi still restrict the ice cream and candy in the clubhouse? I know last year that was a bone of contention with team.
Bring back Stump Merrill!
sorry.
I am extremely happy to see Girardi’s success so far this year. I was all for the change (Torre out, Girardi in), and I would love to see Girardi as the manager for the next ten years.
The manager is a very overrated aspect of a baseball team (IMO). Generally they can do a lot more harm than good. But I do think that Girardi has more baseball intelligence than most managers and his strategy is able to influence the game more than most managers.
Why would Cashman treat Girardi differently than Cashman was treated, or how Cashman has treated the ballplayers?
I don’t see the Yankees extending Girardi till his time on this contract is up. They rarely do with any of their players, they didn’t with Cashman.
Rishi -
I am so relieved you do the same thing I do! I feel guilty, but I can’t help it. As I’ve said here before, there are an awful lot of Mariano’s saves I haven’t seen.
“What about AL Manager of the Year? You have to figure the two top candidates are Girardi and Texas’s manager, and with Texas fading, you lean towards Girardi?”
I would vote:
1. Ron Gardenhire (Twins)
2. Ron Washington (Texas)
3. Mike Soscia (LA)
4. Girardi (Yankees)
This topic is being covered all over the blogosphere. As I and others have remarked elsewhere, way too early to talk extension for a manager who still has a lot to learn and a long way to go.
As has has been pointed out, he’s better — partly because he was forced by Front Office to move his insular little coterie out of his house and go with an experienced bench coach, partly because during the off-season they gave him those beautiful additions to the team (that’s two-thirds of the credit to FO), and finally but still very importantly because Girardi faced the facts of his flunk-out first year and made some adjustments.
Now we get to see how he manages during the post-season. If that goes well, give him next year to see if he can improve his in-game management in the regular season. Then go to the table.
This is the Yankees. Extensions have to be well-earned.
No extensions unless they’re monthly with renewable team options.
Strap in, Doreen, we’re hurtling towards a cataclysmic confrontation with… Boston? Anaheim of Orange Grove? With Mr. Torre or perhaps Albert or the pesky Phillies waiting beyond?
This is no time for the meek and mild. Though it is just baseball, after all.
Derwood Morris
September 25th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Bring back Stump Merrill!
sorry.
————————————
I have a Stump Merrill bobblebelly and it is nodding in approval of that posting.
—or at least his belly is…
it wasn’t joe who restricted junk food. He got blamed I think it was Cash.
Doreen – that’s why some time I’ll ask in here if there a pitcher warming or something (even when I’m home).
I’m all about the post-game recap if I can get it
“Kinda hoped that Joba would have had a season comprable to his….He is younger, but still he’s been a disappointment for much of the season….”
pat m-
joba is a year younger if i read their bios correctly. i think the red sox did best thing in keeping buchholz down at triple as i understand it to learn how to throw the change up better.
he was throwing the change very well last night and it was effective. maybe it was a good night for him, and maybe it was a bad team in kansas city, but buchholz was pitching and not just throwing. he was hitting 97 (on the nesn gun) and thowing breaking balls and change ups on the black.
i haven’t seen that from joba on a consistent basis. what’s worse is that buchholz looks like as a starter like he throws harder than joba. i’m not sure if joba can perfect all his oitches at the mlb level. maybe he can , but maybe he’d be better off at triple a for at least a few months next spring to work on al his pitches and his command.
Ron Gardenhire?
Joey’s really? did Joe earn it in 2004 when he blew a 3-0 lead to the soxs?
Girardi has made some poor moves as manager as well. Last year he cost the Yankees games with some of them. This year he has a lot less costly errors. Its too early to be calling for him to manage the next 10 years. Lets see how well he keeps the machine running in the post season first. That is win or lose, its how its done that can make the difference.
“What about AL Manager of the Year? You have to figure the two top candidates are Girardi and Texas’s manager, and with Texas fading, you lean towards Girardi?”
Mike Scioscia will get a lot of consideration. His pitching staff (starters and relievers) has been decimated this season and he still has the 2nd or 3rd best team in the game.
Ron Washington (texas) may very well win the award. Not sure if he deserves the credit, or if its a matter of being in the right place at the right time. Their pitching really turned the corner this year.
Girardi will probably finish 3rd (my guess). He’ll get penalized because he’s “supposed” to win with this payroll. Want to know why the Yanks are going to win 100+ games? Because 4 out of their 5 opening day starters will have made 30 or more starts this year. Lets not forget how many starts Rasner and Ponson made last year.
I think Girardi should hire Boras as his agent before the World Series and just in case the Yanks get beat in the Championship. He should immediately resign publically after the last game and say he is looking for more years with someone else(money as well). Once the week is over and he has taken the attention away from the World Series winners. He comes back to the team and fires Boras saying it was a miss understanding.
I feel like iv seen this movie before.
SteveB –
wasn’t it Stump who always had that huge stop watch around his neck? Lord, I do not miss those days.
OT: Keith Law on Cowherd (Law was in Toronto FO when AJ first went there)paraphrasing; “AJ kind of guy who didn’t want to pitch in big games, wanted to be in trainer’s room, on DL”.
Randy: They had him in the minor leagues to learn to throw his fastball better. His offspeed stuff was never an issue. They have mucked around with his fastball each season now, they tried to make him go more over the top, they tried to get him to add movement, blah blah blah
That was the pitch that was getting crushed all the time. Now they may have had him work on his changeup as well, but everything I read about him the issue was always his fastball
If Girardi gets bounced in the first round… he will be a lame duck next year and have to get to the ALCS to keep his job.
If we get bounced in the ALDS, that would be 5 years in a row without winning a playoff series (we didn’t make it last year, but the time frame stays the same).
We have too much talent to keep getting bounced in the 1st round. If we do this year, Girardi gets an extension. If not, he better next year.
I’m in favor of limiting the innings for young pitchers the way the Yankees and other major league teams do but I’m not in favor of making adjustments during the season.
For example, if Phil Hughes can throw 160 innings next year (if that’s the number, it might be higher) they should just figure him for 25 starts and keep him at extended spring training until the end of April, stretch him at Scranton, and have him be able to make the last 22 starts with the Yankees with absolutely no restrictions. I’m pretty sure it would be much easier for everyone concerned, most importantly the team and Phil, and not add one more level of complexity to managing the team and pitching staff.
“I would vote:
1. Ron Gardenhire (Twins)
2. Ron Washington (Texas)
3. Mike Soscia (LA)
4. Girardi (Yankees)”
Not sure about Gardenhire this year. When you face the Royals and Indians 36 times a year, you better win at least 90 games.
“jennifer September 25th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
it wasn’t joe who restricted junk food. He got blamed I think it was Cash.”
In every article it stated that Girardi requested that the ice cream machines were removed from the visiting clubhouses. Mussina talked all the time about getting a certain number of wins would bring back snack items from Girardi. Girardi talked all the time about eating healthy, avoiding junk foods.
It wasn’t Cashman.
“OT: Keith Law on Cowherd (Law was in Toronto FO when AJ first went there)paraphrasing; “AJ kind of guy who didn’t want to pitch in big games, wanted to be in trainer’s room, on DL”.”
There’s nothing more low-down than a former front office guy running down an ex-player. If AJ didn’t want to pitch in big games, he could’ve easily signed in Atlanta for very similar money (and closer to home, I believe).
I like what Joe G did with the team this year!
Now, the question is: when AJ is going to pie him, will it be a REAL pie or some no-fat low-sugar impersonation? I wish for the real thing!
It’s all about wins.
The great chemistry, pies, etc. make for nice stories, but they are side shows to the ultimate goal. Girardi deserves credit for changing his ways and paving the way for the culture to be changed, but he has to win or else it is meaningless.
He needs to get past the 1st round for an extension, IMO.
What Big Games was AJ required to pitch in while with Toronto, exactly? Keith Law is referring to some made-up big games in that offhand comment. Ricciardi and his fellow cronies up north liked ripping AJ for not pitching hurt, etc., but that doesn’t translate to “not pitching in big games”, since Toronto has been mostly irrelevant for the years that JP has been running the show.
Derwood Morris–
That sounds right to me.
Close inspection of his bobblebelly reveals no stop watch. He seems to be my only bobble with sunglasses, however.
He is also not smiling.
My Joe Torre is smiling, which makes sense since I got him sometime before 2007.
Gardenhire will not win, unless maybe the Twins win the division. At this point, the Twins aren’t even guaranteed to finish over .500. As for Scioscia, the Angels were a top team last year and were expected to be a top team again.
Prior to the season, while the Yankees did get Tex,CC, AJ etc, many did not pick them to make the playoffs b/c the Red Sox and Rays were coming off great seasons and suppossed to be good. Not only did the Yankees make the playoffs, but they exceeded all expectations with the number of games they’ll win. They also lost AROD in spring training, and their #2 pitcher, Wang, has done nothing all year.
Only one who can beat Girardi is Washington, given the relative expectations for Texas entering the season.
vin, I agree, and when did Toronto play in any big games anyway, so how would Law know that?
All depends if they hold him to the same standard as Torre. A first round exit again this year would be just brutal. This special team, with all the walkoffs, pies, 100 wins, can go up in smoke if we lose 3 games in a couple of weeks.
As long as the best of 5 exists, the regular season is virtually meaningless. Even if it isn’t Girardi’s fault, I can’t imagine the FO taking too kindly to another one and done…
MG, I agree with your idea regarding PH in 2010. “Delay” the start of his season (you don’t usually need 5 starters in April)so that once he comes up he can go “full speed ahead” all year without all the skipping starts, innings limits that Joba has had to endure this year.
No extension. Sing for your supper. He got paid a premium ($2.5milx3 for a 1 yr mgr who got fired) by playing the Dodgers against the Yankees.
The Twins aren’t that great to warrant Gardenhire getting MOTY. Soscia might get it through his managing the team after the death of Adenhart. That was tough, and he deserves some accolades for that. Ron Washington seems to have blown the chance for MOTY with the end of season fade, but will get some votes.
Girardi may get some votes, but I don’t see him getting it. Too many on air pundits keep talking about the payroll of the Yankees. (Funny how that didn’t ever once come up with the RS, ever).
“vin, I agree, and when did Toronto play in any big games anyway, so how would Law know that?”
Exactly. Although he’s usually pretty good, there’s a reason Law hasn’t caught on with another team.
“No pitcher has hit Youkilis 3 times in his career. But three have hit him twice (as far as I can tell). Among those three… Mo. Go figure.”
mo throws that two seamer that runs in on a righty and with youkillis diving in the way he does to cover the outside part of the plate i can see him leaning right into it.
randy
From what I heard and read they kept Buchholz in the minors for some maturity issues more than pitching issues.
No, no need for an extension.
Let him get to a World Series first.
If not, we’ll get rid of him and find a manager who can get us to the world Series.
What about an extension for Mike Harkey?
And does he get some sort of “Hazard Pay” for September? There’s a lot of guys in that pen and Joe’s making a lot of phone calls.
I can’t see where another manager would have done a better job than Girardi this year. The team is going to win 100 games with lots of injuries and unexpected events.
Girardi is a little stubborn sometimes about how he uses his players but that can also be considered a strength since each of them knows what is exactly what is expected and how they will be used. After that it is up to each player to perform to their skill level and earn their pay check.
You can’t build a dynasty with a manager who irritates his players to the point where they eventually tune him out. Billy Martin was one such manager, great for 1 or 2 years but his act wore thin after that. Many of you don’t like Joe Torre but he is the perfect kind of manager for a team with ability like the Yankees. The players get treated like professionals with a high degree of expectation of results.
They held back Bucholz until the Pawsocks coaches each got their own laptop.
Youkilis’ at-bats make me so uncomfortable, even on TV. He is so jiggly…. like jello. If I were on the mound, I would probably plunk him myself… no offence intended
They held back Bucholz until the Pawsocks coaches each got their own laptop.
—
I knew there was a reason his pitches looked sharper, I guess Boston’s famed ‘shoulder program’ includes laptop lifts and runs.
” Now they may have had him work on his changeup as well, but everything I read about him the issue was always his fastball”
jerkface-
whatever it was they had him work on was working last night against the royals. i know the nesn gun is probably off, but 97. that surprised me.
it’s now up tp the yankees to bring along joba and get similar results.
of course , hughes should be in the rotation too next year.
I predict, Buttholez is going to steal the laptops inside the yankee stadium clubhouse, So you better let the word out.
• Don’t underestimate the different look Brett Gardner’s wheels give the Yankees into the playoffs. The guy can flat-out fly. Comparing Gardner with some of the American League’s fastest players, like Boston’s Jacoby Ellsbury and his own Chone Figgins, Angels manager Mike Scioscia said gave the nod to Gardner. “He’s one of the fastest guys we’ve seen,” Scioscia said. “Put them all in a race and he might win by an eyelash.”
• Damon, of course, can run — though not like he once could — and Robinson Cano and even Mark Teixeira make this Yankees team more athletic than some clubs in the past, especially when Jason Giambi was manning first. “We don’t want to be one-dimensional, whether it’s home runs or all small ball,” Teixeira said. “Gardner gives us another option.”
• Not surprising that the only form of celebration from the Yankees after clinching a playoff spot against the Angels the other night was a few handshakes and smiles. As Damon said, “Winning the division would make us a little happier. Unfortunately, this doesn’t seal the deal for us like winning a World Series.” Ah, how Johnny has grown from his Kansas City days.
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/b.....5/17341254
I am leaving work shortly and will not be back online until Sunday.
I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend!!
Good bye Yankee people
Maine Yankee – Bucholz was in AAA this year to regain his confidence, as well as work on The Holy Grail of “Fastball Command.” He was hammered last year, and had to be demoted for his own good.
Randy – Saw your posts on Bucholz. I guess this is the guy the hype was about. The funny thing is that he pitches like what I expected from Dice-K. His fastball (2 and 4 seamer), changeup, curve and slider are all very distinct pitches, and he now seems comfortable with all of them.
Dice-K never had (or used) that variety …. more of a fastball & slurve/cutter/slider guy. Ditched his change and splitter when he got here (bigger ball?).
Finally, we can tell the truth about Johnny Damon.
I’ve seen Bucholtz pitch several times this season and he’s good now and will only get better…I do believe that Young Master Hughes will be better because of his outstanding control….Joba just needs to get back on track, get in MLB shape and refocus, or he’s out of the Bronx
Rishi
After Gardner make that sliding catch Swisher said he was the fastest white man on the planet.
The biggest thing Girardi did this year was hold a pool tournament in spring training.
Hmmmm…
Pete wrote:
But I do believe Girardi took the right steps to change his approach, both with the team and with the media.
It started in spring training and if you were reading the blog then, it was a topic here several times. Girardi trusted his veteran players to lead the team, he gave his coaches more input and he was far more candid with the media. The many needlessly uncomfortable moments that arose in and out of the clubhouse 2008 were rare in 2009.
———
So let’s see.
1. Trust Veterans to lead.
2. Rely on your coaches.
3. Be upfront with the media.
Sounds a lot like that old guy in those State Farm commercials. Ya Know, the guy who coaches for that team out in LA…What’s his name?
Brian(Red Sox Fan)
I think they were also trying to make him earn the spot instead of like Joba just having it given to him.
“I predict, Buttholez is going to steal the laptops inside the yankee stadium clubhouse, So you better let the word out.”
buccholz should steal joba’s carkeys before he puts anyone else’s life in danger by drunk driving.
“Now, the question is: when AJ is going to pie him, will it be a REAL pie or some no-fat low-sugar impersonation? I wish for the real thing!”
girardi told kepner in the times today that if hes pied, he want banana cream…not exactly health food…
god dammit pete- ima miss yoooooooouuuu
Maine Yankee – you’re right about Bucholz being forced to earn a spot in the rotation. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Yankees do a Dice-K/Bucholz program with Joba (i.e. forget the Majors until you get in shape and prove you can get some minor leaguers out).
For now, the “tough love” seems to have helped with Bucholz and Dice-K.
The guy still can’t get a lineup right
Repost from other thread
Listen fellows, it is posible that both the yanks & bosox will pop it on sunday that will happen if the yanks sweep & texas get swept….
MaineYankee
September 25th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Rishi
After Gardner make that sliding catch Swisher said he was the fastest white man on the planet.
——————————-
too funny
kudos once again to girardi, who did a masterfull job of pulling out a win the other day in anaheim (not) of los angeles, with a short bullpen and a depleted lineup.
people on here were ready to tar and feather him, several suggested that the game was unwinnable and unwatchable from the yankees standpoing because he didnt use arod, or bring hughes back after a 38 pitch performance or use mo in the 8th inning. now the yanks go into the boston series well rested and ready to put the division away and get ready for the post season.
thank god we have a manager who sees the big picture and knows his team bebber than anyone.
i say extend him now.
sorry i have a splint on one finger
Jay as I also pointed out, our game will be over before the Rangers. SO the soxs wouldn’t know they clinched till later. I would assume they’d be on a plane.
jay do u really think the socks will pop champaign after being swept and watching the yankees celebrate a division win on the field in front of them?
“What about AL Manager of the Year?”
I think Mike Scioscia is going to win that one again. He went long stretches of the season without Torii Hunter, Vlad Guerrero and 2/5 of his starting rotation and the Angels still challenged the Yankees for the best record in the AL. Girardi did a nice job but he didn’t have close to the amount of adversity that Scioscia had to face.
ham yes. Someone posted a quote for Ortiz. they don’t want to dirty their own clubhouse..
“I think Joe G has already shown that he’s the right man for the job, right now. Consider this: if not him, who else?”
That’s available? Probably nobody. Among current managers, I don’t doubt that a half dozen to eight who could win 100 games with this team. Maybe more.
I’d see where they’re at the middle of next season and it looks more like ’09 than ’08, extend him by another couple seasons.
By the way, the Yankees aren’t clinching the division this weekend. If they can beat Lester with Joba/Aceves/Mitre, etc tonight it will be a miracle. If they do that, then the possibility goes up a bit. But they may not even get the game in on Sunday. They are talking about 90% chance of showers. That will be a long rain delay on Sunday and one that won’t make many Jewish fans (Yom Kippur) very happy. That game was supposed to be played at 8PM and perhaps it should be anyway.
i personally didn’t like a great deal of his moves, but hey! hard to argue with the results. Besides managing is 90% what your gut says.
“What about AL Manager of the Year”
Ron Washington would be my top choice. He had an young, and at this point, inferior team competing into September. Girardi, Francona, Scoscia, and the guy in Seattle all had very good years. Leyland led a nice turnaround as well. Still, Washington’s the man for me this year.
i think washington’s chances have wilted in the heat while his team has basically fallen apart in the race for the playoffs.
id go with scoscia, overcoming the adversity they’ve had has been remarkable.
Joint celebration by re-enacting the reprise of “Tonight” from West Side Story. Minka can be Maria and Kate can be Anita.
its only hypothetical but no matter what papi says, there is no way they would celebrate backing into the playoffs after a sweep.
“For now, the “tough love” seems to have helped with Bucholz and Dice-K.”
dice -k still has to prove he’s back with another good start tomorrow.
hopefully that won’t happen
Blueshirt,
No it WASN’T originally supposed to be played at 8pm. It was a 1pm game that ESPN decided to carry and therefore move to the Sunday night game. It was an afternoon game until 2 weeks ago and then after they got flak for it they moved it back to 1pm
“i think washington’s chances have wilted in the heat while his team has basically fallen apart in the race for the playoffs”
Maybe. To me, his situation is pretty much identical to when Girardi won in 2006. Joe G’s Marlins were a young, and not quite ready team that was in the wild card hunt into September before collapsing like a cheap pup tent.
I think Scoscia wins Manager of the year.
Sorry but he has to win the whole thing before he gets a reward.
Prior to this season, there were a couple of us that compared this team to the 2003 team. I put Girardi down as the wild card and I still have him as that.
I think Girardi’s biggest test starts now with keeping players rested/fresh and having these games mean something to keep that competitive feeling going into the short series.
Then with the short series, we’ve got a few issues and it may come down to his decision that makes or brakes us this season.
Although I would like to say that Joe has done a much much much better job this season than last year. AND that’s not because we’ve played better, it’s because he’s not doing these dumb moves like starting relivers before the starter (Example: Ian Kennedy in Pittsburgh last year) or the obssesion with starting B squads against the lefty pitchers because they’re lefties. I will give Joe credit for that.
I thought Girardi did a very good job last year. I mean for a lot of the season he had guys like Ponson and Rasner as his starters.
brian (red sox fan)
i find it interesting that the red sox are building a team with vmart a their catcher when the angels can really run and the yankees with gardner can run some too.
i’m wondering if scoscia is going to go after martinez in angels/ red sox series.
as much as some yankee fans get on posada as being mostly an offensive catcher, he can throw.
the red sox might get away with having a catcher who doesn’t throw well in the right circumstances, but i think unless the pitchers keep the right guys off the bases, the angels are going to run wild on martinez.
SF IN sf, I find your casting interesting
I don’t know?
CC over-worked, Andy’s tired shoulder and AJ and Joba having very bad second halfs.
Not looking to good for a title as far as I can see.
“joba is a year younger if i read their bios correctly. i think the red sox did best thing in keeping buchholz down at triple as i understand it to learn how to throw the change up better.”
The Sox sent Buchholz down to do two related things: 1. Work on his fastball in terms of command and movement; 2. Change his arm slot and release point.
The red sox actively changed Bucchholz natural arm angle. This is the fundamental biggest difference between him this year and last.
Buchholz had a radical, over the top delivery. If you go back and look at the way he used to throw, Buchholz was so over the top that he would have to clear his head out towards his left shoulder in order to make room for his arm.
That arm angle was both the key to buchholz prior success and his greatest weakness as well.
That radically over the top delivery is what gave him such a fantastic 12-6 curve ball and also was a key to him having so much fade on his change up. His change and curve ball were both considered to be 60+ pitches.
At the same time that over the top delivery caused his fastball to flatten out a great deal. Can’t generate much movement at all that way.
When the Sox sent him down they had him throw from a lower arm slot. He’s still highish but nearly as much as he was before.
The big question on him was in turn this – would his fastball pick up movement and would his secondary stuff stay as sharp?
A kind of equilibrium seemed to be present between how much movement he could generate on his secondary pitches vs. his fastball. Where would that equilibrium be recalibrated to with his new arm angle?
And he has picked up movement on his fastball. That’s been a key to his recent success. At the same time, his change up continued to be a terrific pitch. That’s the main balance he’s found right now. In addition, his slider is also a bit better from the lower arm slot.
However, the trade off buchholz made was in his curve ball. His curve isn’t nearly as good as it used to be. He threw his curve ball 22% of the time last year. This year only 11%. Ironically, worsening his curveball probably made him a better overall pitcher.
We’ll see what happens with him. He still pitches a bit in reverse and hitters will likely adjust.
But that change up is just a great pitch and now he has enough fastball to keep hitters off the change.
Yes, Girardi’s improved relationship with the media is definitely one of the main reasons why we’re in first place.
If only Trey Hillman would be nicer to the KC beat writers his team wouldn’t be nearly as crappy as it is.
Nice insight on Bucholz. I follow the Red Sox from a distance so I had no idea the changes they made with him.
Buchholz is legit.
Don’t expect him to fall on his face this October. Who cares what teams he faced to accumulate his record? Last I checked, Baltimore and Toronto have pretty good lineups that have handled our pitchers pretty good this year.
Joba is perfectly capable of shutting down a team in October.
The guy still throws 100 MPH with a 90 MPH slider, a good curveball, and a decent changeup. He can command all of his pitches as well. The results haven’t been what we hoped for, but he is still more than capable of throwing a big game. This isin’t Jeff Karstens… this is a guy with a 100 MPH fastball.
Joba does not throw 100 mph…
This year his average fastball velocity has been 92.5 mph. On a good day he can touch 97, 98 but as a starter he will never hit 100.
Papelbon and Swisher will do the Irish Jig together to usher in a new era of togetherness in the world.
100 MPH?
Driving speed in Lincoln does not equal pitch speed in the Bronx.
Buccholz has turned out to be a good pitcher. Who he’s pitched against isn’t all that important. He’s adjusted, found a style of pitching that works, pitched deep into games, and limited damage even though he put his share of baserunners on.
Not going to obssess about him either way. He’s not trash, but he’s not unbeatable either.
Just another pitcher. We only need to worry about him when he’s facing us.
//Joey’s really? did Joe earn it in 2004 when he blew a 3-0 lead to the soxs?//
It’s just “sox” even if it’s plural. It’s never “soxs”
I know you’d never know that so we thought we’d help ya out!
Sox win 2009 WS because they have 4 good pitchers on a roll. 2 Number Ones and 2 pitchers that would be number Ones on any other team
that’s all you need to you.
Sorry CC. Looks like they couldn’t get you any help in that rotation this year? Well there’s always next year for the $205mil team!
cb-
thanks for the in depth analysis on buchholz. i’ve been watching the good starts pile up and finally watched him pitch last night. i was not happy to be impressed by him throwing all his pitches well.
what really surprised me was seeing 96-97 mph up there. fast gun or not. it seems like he’s picked up some velocity.
it’s also interesting what you said how his curve was sacrificed somewhat for fastball movement and command which is farrel’s main teaching point.
The use of // to offset quotes is unique, yet familiar.
That person was here yesterday under another name.
How about this:
If we sweep Boston we clinch the AL East.
If Texas gets swept Boston clinches the Wild Card.
It’s possible that on Sunday the Yankees beat Boston and both teams celebrate.
That’d seem a little weird, no?
CB, The times that I’ve watched him pitch ( Bucholtz ) his fastball speed & movement was most impressive…..Curveball is good enough to keep hitters honset and his change is very good……Let’s see how he makes the adjustments after the league makes there’s…….I do like his stuff as a top 1-2 rotatiom guy…..
So the only way we clinch in this series is to sweep, no?
You know Jeter knows those numbers.
“i find it interesting that the red sox are building a team with vmart a their catcher when the angels can really run and the yankees with gardner can run some too”
For my money, steals hinge far more on pitchers than they do on catchers. If guys hold runners properly, they’re tough to run on. Teams actually tried to steal against the Yankees this year slightly more than they did the Red Sox. It ain’t because Posada/Molina gives them a better chance of success than Varitek/Martinez, it’s because they see something in the pitcher they feel gives them a shot. In the Yankees case, that something is usually either AJ Burnett or Joba Chamberlain. For the Red Sox it was largely Wakefield, Penny and their bullpen. Numbers suggest that Beckett and Lester have done a good job holding runners in much the same way CC and Pettitte have. Jury’s out on Bucholtz and Matsuzaka so far as this season goes, but Matsuzaka seems pretty slow to the plate.
Further, using Martinez instead of Varitek doesn’t exactly hurt them in terms of throwing. Varitek has made a fairly strong case for most ineffective player on an AL 25 man roster.
m
The only way we clinch this weekend is with a sweep, correct.
This AL postseason will be one of getting monkeys off of backs:
The Los Angeles Angels of Hollyweird will finally get over the hump (& umps) and defeat BOS in 5;
The NYY will exorcise their first round blues of recent years by beating DET (or MIN, doesn’t matter) in 4;
NYY will then – finally – top LAA atoning for ’02 & ’05 – in 6 (maybe 7)
That’s my story & I’m stickin’ to it
rex-
teams do go after lousy catcher’s arms.
unless my impression is wrong, martinez doesn’t have a good arm. posada and molina do.
i’ll have to look closer to see exactly what the deal is with how well martinez throws.
if he has a lousy arm, teams are going to steal on him no matter how good the red sox pitchers are at holding runners.
i’m really making the bigger point is that the red sox are feeling good about themselves right now but one flaw is their catcher’s arms . i think scoscia may really go after martinez’s arm and really change the dynamic there.
we’ll see.
If they win the WS, extend him. Nothing short of that.
randy
I believe throwing out runners has been na problem for Martinez right along. He did improve some but he was playing 1st more than catcher for Cleveland.
Randy I, The Angels will exploit the Boston defensive weakness with their speed…Boston pitchers’ do not hold runner’s well at all, and then go from there…..
pat m-
you know the angels better than anyone on the blog.
i thinking scoscia is going to go even further than he normally would in the regular season in going after martinez just because with beckett and lester going the majority of games will likely be low scoring .
the yankees have so many good hitters they don’t like to take the bats out of their hands by running gardner, jeter, damon, arod, etc, but maybe it’d be good to take it to the red sox even in this series with the running game.
it’s a bit of a chess game going on. the red sox are trying to slip martinez in there for the offense, but if other teams make the red sox pay by stealing lot or stealing at crucial times, it undermines the red sox stategy of putting martinez in for offense.
if no one attempts stealing in martinez the red sox get him in there on offense with no penalty. i say rne wild on him till he chokes like a dog
He needs an extension regardless.