Joba responds to “stern” approach
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Sep 26, 2009 
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Hi all, Sam here. Looking forward to a more formal “re-introduction” next week (though thanks to all who have emailed already), but since I wrote about Joba last night (as you can see in the post below), I thought I’d give you a little detail to pass the time until the game post goes up.
Neither Joe Girardi nor Joba were interested in offering many details about the conversations that took place between pitcher and manager/coaches after Joba’s last start out out west, and that wasn’t surprising. Girardi danced around the subject several times in his post-game press conference and Joba wasn’t exactly forthcoming in his own meeting with the media. But he did admit that Girardi/Dave Eiland hammered home the point that it was getting to be do-or-die time.
“It’s kind of the same concept” as in the past, Joba said, “but it was a little more stern.”
Apparently “stern” worked, as Joba had the kind of outing he needed. As he said afterward, “there are a lot of people in this game that want your job” and his consistent inconsistency had him on the verge of slipping off the Yankees’ October radar. Instead, he gave them six solid innings, showed good command of his breaking pitches and seemed to be on the same page with Jorge Posada the entire night. To me, that cohesiveness was as important as anything else since the pitcher-catcher relationship is so important in the playoffs – there’s no time for in-fighting in October.
As he was getting ready to leave, someone pointed to the championship belt the Yankees pass around and asked Joba what he thought about seeing it in his locker.
“Man,” he said. “Now that looks really good right there.”
Obviously everyone wants to know what this start means for the future and, at this point, all we know for sure is that Joba will pitch again on Wednesday against the Royals. After that, it’s very possible he’ll see the Red Sox again … in Game 4 of the ALCS.
“This is an important time of year and we told him we needed him to step up,” Girardi said. “And he did that.”
Welcome aboard sam
The media created this Joba monster before he was ready to be consistent ML starting pitcher. Too much media hype too soon for this young man with only 88 innings in the minor leagues. Let’s give him a chance to grow and mature as a ML pitcher.
Welcome.
Joba needed that game, no question about it. The fact that he was given the belt over Alex tells me his teammates also felt that way.
Hi there Sam.
Good insight into a complex situation. Welcome aboard.
Glad to have you aboard Sam.
Zell
Welcome Sam. I enjoyed when you filled in for Pete a bit back. I am looking forward to all your detailed snark-free information-packed posts.
Welcome Sam! Thanks for the info. I look forward to reading your blog!
Not trying to get into psycho babble – but doesn’t it seem Joba pitches better when there is “something on the line”?
Thinking back to his relief appearances, the adrenaline rush of a tight game seemed to pump him up.
Girardi’s now or never talk seemed to serve the same purpose.
If Joba needs to get pumped up for starts, maybe he should take the bull by the horns and use the Rocket approach.
Steve Donahue and some red hot liniment would do the trick.
On MLB, they are showing “Yankee Stadium: Baseball’s Cathedral”. If you haven’t seen it…..it’s must see TV.
Welcome Sam.
Hiya Sam!
welcomeeeeee
Good morning, Sam. Thanks for the post and welcome to the blog.
It’s like Crash Davis said to the minor league team manager in Durham Bull. “They’re kids. You’ve got to scare ‘em.”
If Joba needs to get pumped up for starts, maybe he should take the bull by the horns and use the Rocket approach.
Steve Donahue and some red hot liniment would do the trick.
========================
I just formed a mental image of this. I want my mommy.
Welcome Sam, I’ve always enjoyed your reporting.
Thanks for that DT.
So much for lunch today. Or sleep…
I said it on the game thread last night, Joba’s last effective starts this year came when talk about him being replaced in the rotation started just before the ASB. Cashman this week said Joba had no guarantees and that was echoed by Girardi.
Hearing footsteps behind him appears to get Joba’s attention.
Glad it’s you taking over the blog, Sam. Welcome.
Re: Phil and Winter Ball, I don’t see why he wouldn’t go. 100 innings this year is an extremely low figure for one and, for another, he needs to work that curve back into his repertoire (for some reason he’s not using it anymore) and develop his change. The Yankees said earlier this year that WB was a very good possibility – they recognize the importance of a good change.
Thanks all. I’ll have a more formal “intro” next week after Pete heads north, but wanted to check in with some Joba talk.
DT, I agree with you — some people need to feel like they’re being pushed to tap into their greatest skills, and it seems like Joba may be that kind of personality. If that’s true, October will be good for him. We’ll see.
Craw, while I agree with you that the media contributed to the “Jobamania,” I think you have to lay a good portion of that hype at the Yankees’ feet as well. They, like every team in the majors, pumped up his attributes as a top prospect and they created this unique set of rules to manage his growth. Did the media go nuts covering those rules? Sure. But don’t forget the Yankees were the ones who created that story in the first place by instituting them. There are lots of young, talented pitchers who succeeded without such public “rules.”
In truth, I think the Jobamania may end up helping Joba as he grows. It’s certainly a mental challenge that most players his age haven’t had to deal with during their development, and that could end up being an advantage as he gets older.
Welcome, Sam. I’m sure that you know very well that it won’t be easy to fill Pete’s place, but I’m confident you’ll do a great job.
Pete created a wonderful community. Let’s keep it living.
LET’S GO, SAM!!!!
It also helps that he no longer has any Joba Rule restrictions any longer and now he can just take the ball and pitch his game.
It couldn’t be easy for anyone, much less a 23 yr old kid, knowing he’s only going out there for 3-4 innings at a time.
It was the right thing to do for his career and to keep him healthy. But it certainly didn’t help getting him turned around.
A very good first step, Sam. Interacting with us will make this place a very good one to visit
Oh no!
Adieu to all! Time to get some work done. Ah, it’s Saturday!
I didn’t know Joba was a fan of Howard Stern. Bababooey!
Sam,
All the Yanks were trying to do was protect the kid because they saw him as a high ceiling talent, which he most definitely is based on his stuff and where he was drafted.
Most other teams have followed suit and done the very same thing with their youngsters and it’s not as big of a story in other media markets.
The NY media market and talk radio is most responsible for the Joba hype – not the Yanks.
Welcome aboard sam!!
Hey Sam Wasup!
“Tom in N.J.
September 26th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Thanks for that DT.
So much for lunch today. Or sleep…”
Tom – you know what they say. Sleep and lunch are over-rated.
Sleep when you’re dead, eat when you’re fed.
Roger didn’t need PED’s he had this –
http://www.hotsauceworld.com/rocfirbalhot.html
I’ll be wearing black today.
GF, it may be true that other teams have done the same with their young pitchers, but did they do it in as public a fashion? It’s an honest question – I don’t pay close enough attention to other teams.
I tend to agree with Sam that it was partly attributable to the Yankees. The team really could have handled this year better with Joba. He would have been better off having his innings maintained in the beginning of the season in the minors or at the very least taking advantage of off days and skipping starts.
Oh and Welcome Sam!
Welcome Sam. Looking forward to reading the blog from your point of view.
“DT, I agree with you — some people need to feel like they’re being pushed to tap into their greatest skills, and it seems like Joba may be that kind of personality. If that’s true, October will be good for him. We’ll see.”
Sam – if October is what it takes, the Yanks will accommodate.
The new Joba rules –
World Series bunting for every start.
Pumpkins outside the clubhouse.
No green leaves near the stadium. Only orange and red.
Clubhouse TV shows college football reruns year round.
Instead of calling balls and strikes the umpire says trick or treat.
“The NY media market and talk radio is most responsible for the Joba hype – not the Yanks.”
Disagree. It was Cashman who went into the ’08 season leaning on “Generation Trey” (moronic nickname) to make significant contributions for the Yankees. He didn’t do it because of media hype.
weclome sam
To me, Joba pitches better when he and Jorge are on the same page. The more he’s out there shaking off pitches … the worse off he is it seems.
Welcome Sam. Look forward to your work on the blog thru the playoffs and perhaps beyond.
rb September 26th, 2009 at 11:52 am
GF, it may be true that other teams have done the same with their young pitchers, but did they do it in as public a fashion? It’s an honest question – I don’t pay close enough attention to other teams.
I tend to agree with Sam that it was partly attributable to the Yankees. The team really could have handled this year better with Joba. He would have been better off having his innings maintained in the beginning of the season in the minors or at the very least taking advantage of off days and skipping starts.
—————-
The Yanks really couldn’t do that because they needed Joba in the rotation and his past success clearly indicated he can get MLB hitters out.
Don’t forget Wang and Kennedy both went down early in the season. They needed starting pitchers at the big league level.
So Joba wouldn’t have been in Scranton very long regardless.
Also, if you remember correctly, Cashman and Girardi never liked making the Joba Rules public and didn’t offer many details about them when asked.
It was Joe Torre who gave details about the original Joba Rules in 2007 and Cashman was none too pleased about it.
I’ll echo everyone’s sentiment with an “Aloha, Sam!”.
Hey, Giradi has had these meeting before, dodn’t work….NY Yankee fans have expressed their displeasure with his performanxces, didn’t work……However when the words are heard from the Mount ( Brian Cashman’s Office ) everybody listens….Remember Atlanta !!!!!! Joba listened and followed Jorgie’s lead, set the tempo for the game, and just threw, no thinking……He needs to prove again Wednesday thathe not only heard the message, he Got the message……Or you could be gone…..You don’t want to make the GM look bad
Hola Sam
Welcome Sam! I am glad to hear you will be involved with the blob!
Rex September 26th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Disagree. It was Cashman who went into the ‘08 season leaning on “Generation Trey” (moronic nickname) to make significant contributions for the Yankees. He didn’t do it because of media hype.
—————–
We’re specifically talking about Joba. And he was in the bullpen to start the 2008 season.
He didn’t make his first start until June and was outstanding until he came down with the shoulder issue in August and was shut down for a month.
There was no reason to think he couldn’t handle pitching in the rotation to start the 2009 season, although it’s the media and fans who consistently debated his role.
Cashman has said since 2007 that Joba’s long term role was going to be in the rotation and has never wavered. Girardi continues to remind the media just about every week that people have to understand that he’s such a young kid and so inexperienced in the rotation and struggles were inevitable.
A very large contingent of the media and fan base don’t seem to realize that pitching in the 8th inning is nothing like pitching the first 7 innings. They wanted dominance from him all the time.
Well, it doesn’t quite work that way.
I’ve said before – to anyone around who would listen… who, truth be told, isn’t many – that Joba is a similar pitcher in nature to that of Papelbon. He’s seemingly a adrenaline pitcher, who thrives on the emotion of the moment and doesn’t have a lot of fear in what he throws.
I think this is evident in a couple of ways:
(1) – He gets rocked in his first innings of work more often than not, and then settles in. This sets up #2, in that:
(2) – He’s had an innings limit.
I’m not saying he shouldn’t have one. I acknowledge that, in order to sustain a career, one should be in place to ensure his longevity. Fine. But taking someone who works on going on full tilt, and telling him he’s limited in what he can do before he even gets to work… there’s a preconceived barometer on how much emotion he can put in.
It’s hard to get riled up when you know at some point you’re going to get pulled no matter what you do in the game, I would think. At least… that’s what I think about Joba. Once he gets to a point where he’s allowed to sling without restrictions, I think he will settle in.
… or, maybe this just fortifies the argument that he should be a reliever. Heh.
Wasn’t Joba the one responsible for the Joba hype? With his thrilling run and emotion on the mound?
That was then, this is now. If Joba wants to be a starting pitcher, then he’s got to do what they ask of him. Qualities starts like last night only help his case.
Re: Phil’s innings next season. Doesn’t he have more of a “baseline” (minor league innings) to build upon? I think part of the reason they were so cautious this season with Joba is because he had shoulder issues.
Phil’s issues were not arm-related, and as long as he stays healthy he’ll be able to stretch out a little more than Joba was able to.
Welcome, Sam, glad to have you here.
PeteAbeRT @IanMBrowne: In a cab with @amaliebenjamin and our driver asked us how to get to Yankee Stadium, saying he has never been there.
2 minutes ago from TweetDeck
———————————–
uh…
Sam – will you be tweeting?
To review:
They were so cautious with Joba because:
1. He had shoulder issues (tendinitis?)
2. Was basically a reliever the last two seasons
3. Not much innings to build upon.
also – welcome, Sam. You got big shoes to fill in PeteAbe’s absence, but the “blob” (jessiedog’s words, not mine) looks forward to what you have to say.
GreenBeret7
September 26th, 2009 at 11:17 am
On MLB, they are showing “Yankee Stadium: Baseball’s Cathedral”. If you haven’t seen it…..it’s must see TV.
—————————————————
I watched an HBO documentary, “9 Innings from Ground Zero” this morning. I had never seen it before but, for those of you who have access to HBO On Demand, please watch it but be warned that you will be both smiling and crying a great deal of the hour. It is a remarkable treatment of how the events of 9/11 and the 2001 World Series interacted. It also shows how a team that is defeated still walks away in victory.
Benvenuto, Sam.
Welcome Sam.
Hopefully you will stay above the petty habit of criticising some players and the manager for no reason.
Hi Sam.
Now where’s the lineup for this game? It’s almost 12:30.
jessiedog,
Did you mean to type “blob”? I like it. We should coin it here.
(bl)ogging (o)n (b)aseball=blob
If this is what the blog is gonna be like without pete, im gone.
pete, pleaaaaaaaaaaaaase dont leave
bob lorenz’ blog is called the blob…
m, actually “The Blob” is Bob Lorenz YES network blog.
September 26th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Nick.
My noon pick is the MI/IN Over 53.
-dennis
re-post
Ha! I’ve seen that. Never read it, but it’s right up there by Kimmy’s link. Duh. Never mind.
I’ll give some motherly advice to Sam.
Just be yourself…but don’t forget to update frequently…
GF, all true. I’m not sure what else the Yankees could have done, but all of this in-season manipulation certainly was not helpful in minimizing the attention Joba has received.
Rishi September 26th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
bob lorenz’ blog is called the blob…
=============================================
Ironically, Kim Jones’ blog is called the b(o)(o)bs.
welcome sam!
I think Joba could’ve deflected more attention away from himself by pitching better at times.
Girardi said it yesterday in response the question about whether or not the restrictions were a factor. Then he responded with, “That would sound like an excuse. His job is to take the ball and pitch when we ask him to, whether it’s 2 innings, 4 innings, 8 innings” (paraphrasing there).
And he’s right. Maybe Joba had a hard time adjusting, worrying about other stuff.
Question for Sam…..
Is it at all impossible that Yanks could go with Series “B”, especially if Joba is the good Joba vs KC on Wednesday.
This could force Detroit’s hand, if they make it, to limit Verlander and use Joba game 4.
After all, who has a better #4 than Joba anyway.
Welcome aboard Sam. Just remember one thing: No fancy writing, just give us the meat please. That’s all we ask for. Is there a wonder why Twitter has spread like wildfire? Limiting people to 125 character keeps people on point. Remember what I say!
Ironcally Peter Rabbit, you comment contained 248 characters(inc spaces).
m, the attention would still be there. If he pitched 2-3 innings and he faced the minimum # of batters and only threw 25-30 pitches, there would be plenty of conversation about how ridiculous it is that he isn’t allowed to pitch deeper into the game.
Sam — Glad the blog is going to be in such capable hands.
Could you stop by and find Michael Kay and ask him if after 20+ years in the booth he might ought to learn the #$%@ing BALK rule. It was annoying, insulting and embarrassing all at once to hear him trying to talk through the scoring ruling that awarded Alex the SB on the balk — the correct ruling by the way.
For everyone’s edification, a balk call is not a dead ball situation. It’s more like a delayed penalty in the NHL. The play is allowed to continue and the offensive team can choose the balk or the end result, whichever it prefers.
For example if the guy balks on a throw to first and throws it down the RF line the runner can go for third or even home risk free. It’s why pitchers (and others) are taught to hold on the to the ball when a balk is called because it can only get worse for the team in the field. If a balk is called for a pitcher not coming to a stop and he surrenders a HR on the pitch the HR would count.
For an experienced PXP man to not know that basic of a rule is inexcusable… and I’d love to hear him explain himself. Of course, Leiter didn’t know it either… nor apparently did anyone on the MY9 crew….incompetence all around.
rb,
But the intelligent writer and reader would know why.
You’re absolutely right!
I’ll give you something to count Stevie! LOL
Welcome Sam!
Welcome Sam! All the best to you! And have fun!!
Please make sure the content level stays high!!
Welcome, Sam….looking forward to your informative work.
Welcome Sam..looking forward to your informative work
I’m already trying to think of nicknames for you, Sam. So far I got S-Bord, Bordo, Gordon Borden, Sam…Haha.
Welcome Sam. Look forward to your perspective and information of the Yankees. Your timing is great.