No news is good news …
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Oct 01, 2009 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
… for the Yankees, at least.
The Tigers could have clinched the AL Central if they’d managed a win today against the Twins, but Minnesota pounded Detroit, 8-3 in a matinee that just finished. That means the Twins’ elimination number stays at two and delays the Yankees decision on which series schedule to take for at least another day. (They have to inform MLB one hour after their opponent is determined.)
From the Yankee perspective, the longer it takes to crown a Central champ, the better. Detroit is now two games up with three to play, so if the Tigers lose two of three to the White Sox this weekend while the Twins sweep the Royals (including one game against Zack Greinke), the teams would go to a one-game playoff. That game would be in Minnesota but wouldn’t be played until Tuesday because the Vikings are on Monday Night Football.
Tiger ace Justin Verlander is currently scheduled to pitch Sunday. If the Tigers have clinched, it’s likely he wouldn’t pitch (or only throw an inning or two) so that he can be ready to start Game 1 on (likely) Wednesday. If Sunday is a must game for the Tigers, then obviously Verlander will start and wouldn’t be ready until Game 2 on Friday, meaning he’d pitch Games 2 & 5 instead of Games 1 & 4.
I sure hope CWS comes to play this weekend.
Does anybody know if game 1 is supposed to be an afternoon or a night game?
Go Twins!
Actually the magic number is 2, it is technically 1 when they are playing the twins; so we probably won’t have a definite until Sunday when Grienke pitches! Twins could sweep though putting the force on the Tigers.
The Magic Number is actually 2 (I believe)
Game Five is 5 days after Game Two. Verlander would be on full rest.
Wouldn’t the game 5 starter be on normal rest?
Senor A. Boy, the times won’t be set until later, when the networks decide what matchups they want in prime time.
Yeah, magic number is definitely 2. And with three games left to play, that bodes well for an exciting weekend (and for the Yankees, since they’ll get to play the exhausted team that survives it all). Sweet.
I don’t see the Twinkies sweeping KC. While it would be an interesting scenario, they blew their real chance by not winning yesterday (a tough game, and the loss is more on the American Idle). Beating Greinke is possible, unless he goes deep enough in the game. This is his last start of the season so I would bet he is more than likely going deep.
The Twinks gave it a valiant effort, but KC can play tough. We’ll see if Mauer can MVP them to the improbable.
AMS223, do you have an idea if it will be a day game or a night game? In a related note, please sign on to gchat.
Hey the Twins have been very good against the Royals at the Dome. Don’t count them out just yet. You never know what will happen in baseball, example: 2004 Red Sox.
That was the whole point of the longer series, having to use only 3 starters. Thus, Game 5 would be normal rest from Game 2.
Anyway, I’d rather have Verlander in Game 1 against CC. Their best against our best. Him against any other Yank is lopsided and would bode well for them. Let Detroit wrap it up Friday.
Both MIN & DET are home this weekend.
DET has to face Peavy, Garcia & Danks
MIN will see Greinke
You never know…
Rooting hard for the one game playoff
great update! keep up the fine work.
Jeremy what’s all this talk about the 2004 Red Sox?
I don’t remember that at all.
You really have to give a ton of credit to Minny and its organization. They manage to be in the mix every year. At this point they’re doing in without Morneau. Other than Mauer and Morneau, you really don’t hear about a lot of standouts and that includes their starting pitching. (Obviously having Joe Nathan is a huge plus. But you have got to get to him.) And they do it without a real big budget.
Kudos to them. Pretty darned good.
poor choice of words..not lopsided, but a slight advantage for the Tigers
I agree trisha, the Twins always seem to do it with smoke and mirrors.
Except, of course, when they play the Yanks. :>
Alex from Bedmister owning Diet Coke.
Yeah I don’t like talking about 2004 but the point is that you never know what will happen in baseball. Ozzie said the White Sox are going to play the Tigers hard. The Tigers have to finish it because the White Sox aren’t going to lay down for them.
You’re right trisha, MIN seems to be always in the mix for many years, moreso than many small or mid-market teams.
A lot of it is a product of good scouting & player development, since even though they lose more players than they retain they still manage to come up with viable replacements.
Verlander getting bumped back to a Game 2 start essentially makes Game 1 a must win. If Sabathia doesn’t beat Jackson, you’re staring down Verlander and a potential 0-2 deficit. At least if It’s Verlander/Sabathia in Game 1 and you lose, you have a match-up of twos in the next game and don’t have to overcome the team’s ace.
Jeremy, I went there yesterday…..it didn’t go well. Still a lot of sore fans over that one. I say you live and learn and never let it happen again. The moral being, don’t under estimate your opponent.
Good catches, guys. To be clearer, the Twins elim. number is 2, so I changed it to that. Thanks for the sharp eyes.
repost
Doreen
October 1st, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Pat M -
That’s true. I wasn’t thinking internationally. I was thinking there are so many more teams than there used to be, and 5 starters instead of 4, that the chance of being able to fill that many openings with good quality pitchers is smaller than it used to be.
————————————————————
Although the teams have almost doubled since the late 60s, the US population had more than doubled, too. Add Latin America and Asia, and the pool may have tripled.
Just since 1982 the population in the USA has risen by 80 million, of which 48% are males. One point brought up by PAT M was the decrease in black players. However, there has been an increase in black pitchers.
Are we supposed to care what Billy Ripken thinks? He wasn’t a patch of a patch of a patch on his brother……now he’s basically saying that he doesn’t trust the Yankees to do anything right? That’s the impression I got from the comments in the previous thread. Oh well – I hardly watch MLB network anymore anyway……..
I’m not going to blame the Yankees for Joba’s poor performances. Maybe had he not had such an “interesting” off season and come into camp in bad shape he would be better off. I will admit that the Yankees probably did something of a disservice – Joba should have started out in the minors and then be recalled at the appropriate time. I will admit that the Yankees handling of Joba gives me definite pause for thought with regards to Phil. If this is how they handle Phil next year…….
Ozzie has too much pride – he’d get a glove & go out there himself if it means bating Ordonez.
*beating
What did Mike blather about and how is Alex owning him?
If Verlander pitches on Sunday, the Yanks may opt for the Plan B schedule. Verlander could then be pitching Game 1 on 3 days rest and a potential Game 5 on full rest.
GB7 -
Why does it seem to me that there aren’t as many dominating pitchers as there used to be? or maybe I’m misremembering. Or maybe my expectations are out of whack. Or maybe hitting is just better? Or is it the DH?
Edwin Jackson has not been that great for a while now. The guy almost has a 5.00 ERA in the second half of the season. He has given up about 5 or 6 runs for a number of starts now. I’m sorry but I think that this race going down to the wire helps the Yankees. The Tigers starters will be worn out if they make it.
I like Girardi’s managing style. He goes for the jugular and doesn’t let up. Quite different than his predecessor. He’s aggressive, but hasn’t gotten carried away with it like a Bobby Valentine would do. He’s really warming up to me. If he takes us to the promise land this year, He’ll be the new St. Joe in my eyes.
And attention, attention. The next time you have to hear the whiney voices of RSN try to put Yankee fans down because that little crapbox known as fenway is sold out until the next millenium (and Yankee Stadium is not), here’s some pretty cute news. The Suxer organization announced fan appreciation weekend for this upcoming weekend and “there are still some really good seats to be had.” Guys on EEI are questioning whether the organization did that because the games are NOT sold out!
Later y’all. This was just a quick drive by.
For those that haven’t noticed, the Yankee team ERA is now in a tie for the 3rd lowest in the AL. Only Seattle and Chicago are lower and tied with Detroit. Chicago has an 8 point lead.
NYY is also tied for third in fielding and in 2nd place in hitting, 1 point lower than the Angels. Huge leads in slugging and OBP.
Agree Jeremy, Jackson has probably hit the wall.
No one else really scares you there – no Kenny Rogers and his “little helper”.
And what the hell happened to Bonderman? He’s a mopup guy now?
There’s no way to know that Verlander will be worn out and thus less effective in the division series against the Yankees. You would assume that throwing 130 pitches on Tuesday and then potentially having to throw over 100 more on Sunday would mean his stuff might not be completely polished on Friday in the Bronx–but it’s not even certain he will have to get to that point on Sunday, and even if he does, you can’t know how it will effect him.
this season is so much more enjoyable than the last
we are thinking playoff instead of football
a tired team that just overcame
vs
a rested team that might have let up a bit
nah… the bombers of summer are the real deal
Betsy,
It’s not just the way they handled Joba this year. It was the rushing him to help in 2007. It was the poor way they worked him into the rotation in 2008. And the bizarre way of limiting his innings in 2009. While Joba’s problems are not all on the Yankees, they certainly haven’t helped.
Mike never knows what he’s talking about half the time. Earlier he claimed when a fan asked him why Joba doesn’t throw hard anymore, said the Yankees forced him to be a starter and now Joba has to “pace” himself.
Of course Mike failed to mention in 12 starts last year Joba’s average FB was about 94-95 mph. And every start he got it up to at least 99 mph a number of times including late in games.
People on the radio seem to be on the “Yankees have ruined Joba” bandwagon. As if he will never be good again.
Doreen
October 1st, 2009 at 5:06 pm
GB7 -
Why does it seem to me that there aren’t as many dominating pitchers as there used to be? or maybe I’m misremembering. Or maybe my expectations are out of whack. Or maybe hitting is just better? Or is it the DH?
————————————————————
You’re not mis-remembering. There are fewer of the super pitchers, but, offense is up and all rules changes over the last 40 years are tilted to offense. Some of what we’ve been talking about is the reason, as is training, styles and specialization. Bigger gloves allow for fewer hits. Last, but not least, is the quality of plate umpires and their moving strike zones.
GB7=
So maybe not so much on the quality of the athlete, but the odds being stacked against pitchers?
im rooting for a one game playoff lol!!
Yeah but you know that if Verlander is pitching Leyland is going to keep him in the game for about 7-8 innings because the Tiger bullpen can’t be trusted. The guy is a horse no doubt but you can’t keep pitching like that with that workload and not hit a wall. Example: CC Sabathia
If he pitches on 3 day’s rest with that workload. I take my chances.
As much as Ozzie hates Ordonez and would love to upset his postseason apple cart, I don’t see CWS sweeping DET this weekend. The White Sox aren’t good enough a team to do that.
Doreen
October 1st, 2009 at 5:15 pm
GB7=
So maybe not so much on the quality of the athlete, but the odds being stacked against pitchers?
————————————————————
Definately. Little guys like Zobrist, Bartlett, Pedroia, Brian Roberts are using longer but lighter bats to generate bat speed and hitting 400 footers to the opposite field. 20 years ago, they’re popping up or hitting singles. Parks are smaller. One thing that is helping is getting rid of turf fields.
“Ozzie said the White Sox are going to play the Tigers hard.”
The problem is, the White Sox players tuned Ozzie out weeks ago. They are tired of his act and can’t wait till next Monday when they begin hoping he’s fired.
GB, All that info you pointed out just informs me that the NY Yankees are by far the most balanced team in the game…….Also, they have been the best so far this season, with a healthy margin …..
“You really have to give a ton of credit to Minny and its organization. They manage to be in the mix every year.”
they’ve had better pitching than the yankees for six years in a row until this year.
their 2009 payroll is 65 million.
the yankees is 201 million.
i don’t think there’s any question that they are better at teaching young pitchers and developing young players.
i think cashman was 100% right in spending the money on sabathia, burnett, and teixeira, but only because he couldn’t compete with a team like the twins if he only spent 65 million.
the above is the reason i don’t go crazy on singing cashman’s praises for this year.
that said, i think he did a good job because he did what he was supposed to do and that was spend to win.
Laura
KC swept the Tigers at Comerica in 2006 that caused them to lose the division. I would holg off predictions since they have Peavy, Garcia, and Danks pitching.
And the 2006 Tigers were a better team than this Tiger team.
GB7
I recall someone talking about the strike zone and how it is smaller now than in the past.
Also if Gibson was pitching today he would lead the league in hit batters the way they are allowed to crowd the plate.
sorry- hold off.
“ready to start Game 1 on (likely) Wednesday.”
Aren’t the Yankees going to choose the long series? So they would start Thursday, instead?
GB, You mentioned turf fields…..Pete Rose it is believed that playing in the NL ( 70′s & 80′s ) with all the turf fields aided his seasonal hits by at least 20 %…..So that equates to 40 hits a season times what 15 years…..Even though Derek is ahead of Pete’s pace, the Astro Turf groundball hits can never be overcomed even if he stays healthy
Pat M.
October 1st, 2009 at 5:22 pm
GB, All that info you pointed out just informs me that the NY Yankees are by far the most balanced team in the game…….Also, they have been the best so far this season, with a healthy margin …..
————————————————————
Add in the nearly 110 stolen bases and only caught 27 times. NYY is not only well balanced but can score on more than homers, although that’s all they talk about. Imagine just how good those pitching and fielding numbers would look without the first week of the season and the bombing the Yankee pitchers took against Cleveland. In the first 17 games Yankee pitching had 5 games of more than 10 runs allowed including a 22, 16, 15, 10 and 10 run efforts.
randy
We don’t know how well Cashman would do with a 65 million dollar pay roll. He hasn’t had the need to at this point.
“KC swept the Tigers at Comerica in 2006 that caused them to lose the division. I would holg off predictions since they have Peavy, Garcia, and Danks pitching.”
That was 2006. This is the 2009 White Sox, who are next to last in fielding and have a manager who they despise. Asking them to win 3 straight games is a tall order. I don’t think they can do it. We’ll see.
Man ! I swear Francessa has a thing for Arroyo. He is an average starter and he talks about him like he is Bob Gibson.
MaineYankee….I’ll bet Cashman also has the highest AAA salary as well……
Over! WV/CO 56.
All, Hope all is well.
-dennis
Matt:
Long series starts Wednesday, has an off day on Thursday – that’s the unusual part – and then continues with Game 2 on Friday. Series “B” starts with Game 1 on Thursday and Game 2 on Friday.
Laura
And the Royals are worse than the White Sox. I’m just saying that you can’t make predictions in baseball.
Pat M.
October 1st, 2009 at 5:33 pm
MaineYankee….I’ll bet Cashman also has the highest AAA salary as well……
——————————————-
All I’m saying is it is hard to judge him based on what he has done in NY.
I’m not saying he would do well with less.
I’m also not saying he would do well in a smaller market.
MaineYankee….I’ll bet Cashman also has the highest AAA salary as well……
Well, Igawa can’t help
MaineYankee
October 1st, 2009 at 5:24 pm
GB7
I recall someone talking about the strike zone and how it is smaller now than in the past.
Also if Gibson was pitching today he would lead the league in hit batters the way they are allowed to crowd the plate.
————————————————————
at one time the top of the strike zone was the arm pits, then the letters. Now if it’s above the belt, it’s a ball. A lot of the problem is the umpires’ eye level. Ever since the went to the inside chest protector, the umpires have gotten down lower and lower. The balloon proctor kept the more upright.
Gibson, Drysdale and Early Wynn would have drilled their mothers for crowding the plate.
A great story about Early Wynn. Young player was digging a foothold at the plate and Wynn’s just standing there, glaring. He yells to the kid, “Young fella, just let me know when you’re finished digging.” The kid gets ready and nods OK. Wynn drilled him in the ribs. He told him the next time, he’d bury him in that hole.
Nice… I’d like the twinkies to put up a fight… and if nothing else maybe knock Greinke around… Wont happen, but if they do it will probably give Carsten Charles a better shot at the Cy Young
GB7
I guess I was wrong.
That steel trap isn’t so rusty.
Laura -
The alternative would then be DET losing 2 of 3 to CHI & MIN sweeping KC @ home (including vs. Greinke).
Possible, yes.
Likely?
Pat M.
October 1st, 2009 at 5:29 pm
GB, You mentioned turf fields…..Pete Rose it is believed that playing in the NL ( 70’s & 80’s ) with all the turf fields aided his seasonal hits by at least 20 %…..So that equates to 40 hits a season times what 15 years…..Even though Derek is ahead of Pete’s pace, the Astro Turf groundball hits can never be overcomed even if he stays healthy
————————————————————
Yeah, I think that Rose is unreachable,. Even if Jeter stays around for another 6-8 years, he’s not getting to 4300 hits. Too much money in the game now. I’m guessing 36-3700 hits is his limit.
“Nice… I’d like the twinkies to put up a fight… and if nothing else maybe knock Greinke around… Wont happen, but if they do it will probably give Carsten Charles a better shot at the Cy Young”
Nobody puts Greinke in the corner!
MaineYankee
October 1st, 2009 at 5:41 pm
GB7
I guess I was wrong.
That steel trap isn’t so rusty.
————————————————————
I use a lot of bear grease to keep it working.
I fully appreciate the Minnesota Twins. But it has to be noted that the Twins compete in a Division where only 94 wins can win by 13 1/2 they did in 2002. They were the only team above .500. In 2003 they won only 90 games and again won comfortably. Same for 2005 when they won 91 games. The only year the Central Division was really tough was 2006 when they won 96 and the Tigers won 95.
My point is the Yankees play in a Division where it usually takes 96 to 100 wins to be named champion. Yes, the Yankees can spend a lot more money to be competitive, but so cant the Twins on a smaller scale.
The difference betwen the Steinbrenners and Carl Pohlad is that the Steinbrenners invested money to make money. Pohlad , far richer than George Steinbrenner ever was, has never committed to the team the way George did. Yes, they have a $65mil payroll. But let’s not forget the $30mil they receive in shared merchandise and braodcasting fees. There’s no excuse for them to not resign Joe Mauer. We’ll see just how committed the Twins ownership is.
“And the Royals are worse than the White Sox. I’m just saying that you can’t make predictions in baseball.”
You can make predictions in baseball as long as you are prepared for them to be wrong.
“We don’t know how well Cashman would do with a 65 million dollar pay roll. He hasn’t had the need to at this point.”
maine yankee-
well, cashman signed sabathia , teixeira, and burnett and the yankees are paying them about 55 million this year . take that off 202 million and that’d be about 147 million.
i thnk it’s safe to say the yankees don’t make the playoffs without these three additions.
so it’s safe to say at 147 million cashman doesn’t make the playoffs.
if he doesn’t make it at 147 million, he certainly isn’t making it at 65 million.
all this said, i’m annoyed with the twins because they haven’t resigned my good buddy stan cliburn who has been their triple a manager for the past 4-5 years. most of the present team went through him on their way to the majors.
of course, baseball manager are hired to be fired (except pat m’s old manager bobby cox.
For those who think Jeter has a shot at Rose consider this.
He’s at 2745 right now – say he finishes at 2750 (nice round number) at age 35.
If he plays 7 more years, and averages 200 hits/year, he’s still short (!) – 4150 – at age 42 by approx. 100 hits.
GB7 I agree.
I think Jeter winds up between 3500 & 4000.
How many hits did Rose have by Jeter’s age?
I thought I heard someone say Jeter is 80-90 hits ahead of Rose’s pace.
Didn’t Rose play until he was something like 45 years old?
randy l.
October 1st, 2009 at 5:45 pm
“We don’t know how well Cashman would do with a 65 million dollar pay roll. He hasn’t had the need to at this point.”
maine yankee-
well, cashman signed sabathia , teixeira, and burnett and the yankees are paying them about 55 million this year . take that off 202 million and that’d be about 147 million.
i thnk it’s safe to say the yankees don’t make the playoffs without these three additions.
so it’s safe to say at 147 million cashman doesn’t make the playoffs.
if he doesn’t make it at 147 million, he certainly isn’t making it at 65 million.
all this said, i’m annoyed with the twins because they haven’t resigned my good buddy stan cliburn who has been their triple a manager for the past 4-5 years. most of the present team went through him on their way to the majors.
of course, baseball manager are hired to be fired (except pat m’s old manager bobby cox.
————————————————————
Do you think that Cliburn would ever come over to “The Dark Side”?
Rose had 2762 hits at end of 1976
GB, I recall a similar event in an early Spring Training game in Fort Lauderdale….Yanks had a big strong hitter by the name of Charlie Spikes…..He just starts digging in, and digging in…..Gibo just glares and then shaves his chin whiskers……Then proceeds to just throw curves as Big Charlie is bailing out to the dugout…..Houk is screaming at him to stay in the box, and the dugout is laughing their behinds off……Spikes was traded for Nettles I think not long after…..I learned a stern lesson that day…
Trisha
To continue your point. For all the complaints that are directed to the Yankees for the money they spend, they don’t seem to mind the revenue the Yankees generate for MLB.
When the Yankees are on the road they play games at the best time to fill the park even on the getaway day.
Also in their defense George did alot to build that team to be the money machine that they are.
Unless Jeter is the playing manager, no other managers is going to run out a 1st baseman/DH will hitting .255 for 4 or 5 years and no power. That’s how Rose broke the record.
Didn’t Rose play for 10 more seasons after 1976?
I don’t see Jeter doing that.
Pat M.
October 1st, 2009 at 5:51 pm
GB, I recall a similar event in an early Spring Training game in Fort Lauderdale….Yanks had a big strong hitter by the name of Charlie Spikes…..He just starts digging in, and digging in…..Gibo just glares and then shaves his chin whiskers……Then proceeds to just throw curves as Big Charlie is bailing out to the dugout…..Houk is screaming at him to stay in the box, and the dugout is laughing their behinds off……Spikes was traded for Nettles I think not long after…..I learned a stern lesson that day…
————————————————————
The lesson being, never annoy an angry pitcher.
Spikes was supposed to have all world talent, but, man, did he flop badly.
randy
What I’m saying is if Cashman had to run the team on a smaller payroll he may do as well as the twins.
We don’t know because he doesn’t have to.
If he went to a small market team then it would be easier to compare.
drive 4-5-
good points, especially about pohlad having way more personal money than the steinbrenners.
and undermining my own argument there is also the celebrity factor.
if the yankee fielded a no name team that had the same numbers as the present yankees with all the big names, they wouldn’t draw as well.
so some of the money isn’t spent for on field production , but for attracting viewers and ticket buyers.
All those “prospects” from the late ’60s & ’70s with the exception of very few (Munson, Murcer) never amounted to anything.
Talk about a barren era.
Sorry that should have been drive 4-5 not Trisha.
wait why do the twins need to sweep? Don’t the tigers just need to lose two and the twins need to win two to force a playoff?
“If he went to a small market team then it would be easier to compare.”
maine yankee -
i think that’s precisely why he won’t be going to a small market team
Tigers have a two game lead. If the Tigers win on gane, Twins need to win all three. A Tiger win and a Twins loss on Friday gives Detroit a 3 game lead with 2 left to play.
randy l.
October 1st, 2009 at 6:08 pm
“If he went to a small market team then it would be easier to compare.”
maine yankee -
i think that’s precisely why he won’t be going to a small market team
———————————————-
And this is all perception either way.
You don’t think it’s a piece of cake to spend 200 mil. do you.
“Matt:
Long series starts Wednesday, has an off day on Thursday – that’s the unusual part – and then continues with Game 2 on Friday. Series “B” starts with Game 1 on Thursday and Game 2 on Friday.”
Thanks. I got a little mixed up with A/B.
It’s the time of year when teams like the Twins and Tigers reflect back to a certain few games that they had in hand in the 9th inning and let them slip away due to a bad fielding play or a wild pitch.