Wrapping it up from the Bronx
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- October
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So, the first regular-season schedule at the new Yankee Stadium is complete and – despite tonight’s performance – the home team won 57 of the 81 games. Not a bad percentage, especially if you paid big bucks for a ticket and were hoping to see a win.
The Yankees also set a Major League Baseball record tonight by becoming the first team in history to have home runs hit in all but one of their regular-season home games, according to STATS LLC. With Derek Jeter and Nick Swisher going deep, the Yankees have a team total of 241 home runs this season, one shy of the franchise record which was set in 2004.
None of that, of course, is particularly meaningful as the Yankees head towards October. Joba Chamberlain’s inconsistency was the story of the night, and while the Yankees vision of their ALDS opponent became clearer tonight (the Tigers are three up with four to go), their vision of Chamberlain’s immediate future only got cloudier. Check out the audio (which I just added) in the last post to hear what Joba had to say. I’m sure we’ll talk plenty about all the options the Yankees have in the coming days.
For now, I’m headed home. Thanks again to everyone for all the e-mails and comments and opinions. We had nearly 1,000 comments on a game that, literally, meant nothing in the standings, and I did my best to answer the nearly 100 e-mails I got over the course of the day. Back at it tomorrow with a few posts as the Yanks get set for their final series of the regular season.
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on Thursday, October 1st, 2009 at 12:27 am by Sam Borden.
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Chad Jennings
Nice day of work Sam.
Too bad the Yanks couldn’t provide you with some walk-off drama but it was pretty close.
Thanks, Sam.
Boffo first day, Sam. Thanks.
Thanks, Sam. You get an A+ for your first day on the “job”. Well done.
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GF,
Hughes was pitching well in ST, then not so well his last few starts. And then disastrous to start the season.
I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I’ve read that Hughes had a cracked rib. If so, it’s possible it happened in ST or early in the season.
Until someone refutes that story, that’s the one I’m going with.
He came back, and pitched pretty well in the postseason for Scranton and in his callup. Highlighted of course, by his dual with future teammate AJ Burnett. Seems like so long ago!
m, extract the Baltimore outing and Young Master Hughes had the 2nd lowest era of any starter this season…..
“However, the media and fans don’t run this team. That’s Cashman’s job. And he’s made it clear that developing these young arms are a top priority.”
GF,
True enough. But Cashman’s overriding priority is to prepare this team to defend its Championship, and if that means packaging and moving parts to get even better, his recent moves with Swish, Tex and Gaudin indicate he will do what must be done.
That said, Chamberlain is the poster boy for potential, and it is highly likely that other teams will see themselves as being better able to develop that potential than the NYYs did. His trade value is not 0.
OOPS. ^^ That’s ‘08 spring training.
pat m,
Really? Only his starts, not his relief appearances right? I gotta take a look later. I find that hard to believe!
And get this, the one game this year at home that they hit zero homers in was against…any guesses?
Sam, nice to have you aboard. Are you going to have a twitter link to the blog? Keep up the good work!
June 16 vs. the Washington Nationals. Five and a half hour rain delay that I waited out. Craig Stammen shut us out and WIllie Harris made one of the better defensive plays of the year
Bingo!…except it was June 18th
Sam, you’re a terrific writer. Thanks for the good work. And thanks to you and Pete for making the transition so seamless. I’m sure you and Chad will work to continue that.Thanks for keeping some of Pete’s standard update segments (’State of the Yankees,”On the iPod,’ ‘Wrapping it up from the Bronx’). As your editors no doubt realize, you have put LoHud on the map, which, no offense intended, is fairly ridiculous and fairly incredible in a town where nine papers follow the Yankees.
Keep up the good work.
heh…I hope you made it to more than just that one game this year!
m
I think you’re right about Phil. He started 7, if I have the numbers right, and pitched a total of 34.2 innings giving up 21 ER. Take out the 1.2 innings and 8 ER against Bal and you still do not get to that low an ERA.
He has a total of 84.1 innings and 28 ERs as a starter and reliever. Take out Bal again and now you are on to something.
This is for any of the idiots that have decided that because Chamberlain has been a flop in his first two years and by the age of 24, I can provide you with a list of about 40+ names of relatively successful players….including starters, relievers and hitters. Do the names Koufax, Gibson, Guidry, Spahn, Gossage, Lyle, Clemente and Bernie Williams ring any bells? Everyone of them had issues in their developement that caused many teams or other visionaries to give up or want to give up on them. Some of those issues were weight, stubbornness, lack of control or denial. Some were accused of having little or no talent. Sound familiar?
I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I’ve read that Hughes had a cracked rib. If so, it’s possible it happened in ST or early in the season.
__
It was a stress fracture, so there was likely a degree of chronicity to the onset of the injury. Either way, it clearly impacted his velo and command.
GreenBeret7
Why would you think that an idiot would be enlightened by those facts? After all, that’s why they’re idiots.
It’s almost a certainty that Joba has an arm strength issue.
I’m sure that sometime shortly after the post season is over, Giardi and the front office will drop the hammer on Chamberlain about his condtioning. It will be tough on him living in Nebraska, but, somebody will hook him up with people at the U of Nebraska. after that, he’s got to buy into a lifetime of conditioning or risk blowing a very promising career.
Backbench October 1st, 2009 at 12:56 am
GF,
True enough. But Cashman’s overriding priority is to prepare this team to defend its Championship, and if that means packaging and moving parts to get even better, his recent moves with Swish, Tex and Gaudin indicate he will do what must be done.
———–
Cashman didn’t trade one of his top young arms to acquire any of those guys. Teixeira was a FA. Swisher they got for Betemit and Marquez. Gaudin they got for nothing.
Young pitchers with high ceilings like Joba are the most coveted players in baseball.
He’s not going to give him up if he has demonstrated that same willingness to stick with Hughes after his struggles.
There is no way they can let Joba start in the postseason. I would go with a three man rotation in Round 1. Gaudin gets the #4 slot in later rounds. Have Joba come out of the pen, hopefully he discovers his old magic there.
GB, Just send Joba along with Hughes & Kennedy to the Performance for Atheletes conditioning foundation…..He’ll be transforned into a core strength monster……And then you’ll get your 98 mph gas back
“Some of those issues were weight, stubbornness, lack of control or denial. Some were accused of having little or no talent.”
GB
I’m sure I missed it, but I haven’t seen anyone accuse Chamberlain of having no talent. Quite the contrary. He has talent. But talent alone does not imply consistent success, which is what the NYYs require of their SPs going forward.
In the nearly 55 years since Koufax started his career, it is probably fair to say that hundreds of young players with ‘talent’ arrived on the scene to much fanfare. Would it be great if Chamberlain rose to the level of the players you listed? Absolutely. Is it a given?
Pat M. October 1st, 2009 at 1:35 am
GB, Just send Joba along with Hughes & Kennedy to the Performance for Atheletes conditioning foundation…..He’ll be transforned into a core strength monster……And then you’ll get your 98 mph gas back
———–
I think there’s a lot of truth to that. I’m sure Hughes will swear by it given the results we’ve seen this season.
Fr. Franco, Cashamn was never going to trade his pride pupil Young Master Hughes and although he took many inquiring calls about Phil, it was a no go…..The GM word is that Hughes is the real deal, Joba is proving to be a project……Wait until they start swapping names for considerations, Joba will be out there to test the waters……Roy Hallady,,,,he allows Pettite to stay another year and he replaces Wang…..CC, AJ, Doc, Phil & ???????
“Cashman didn’t trade one of his top young arms to acquire any of those guys. Teixeira was a FA. Swisher they got for Betemit and Marquez. Gaudin they got for nothing.”
GF,
Agreed. My point there was that Cashman is proving to be a very capable GM with a good understanding of value and a plan to capture that value whether through FA, trade or otherwise.
If you rank the 2010 season starting pitching options of CC, AJ, Andy (for another year), a recovered and healthy CMW, and Hughes, Chamberlain is an asset that can be used to upgrade other parts of the line up that are not as strong. Not saying this will happen, but it would be wrong to rule it out peremptorily.
The Wang-Man is not going to pitch in a MLB game until maybe sometime next August, if then,,,,He’s a 2010 stratch….move on
“The Wang-Man is not going to pitch in a MLB game until maybe sometime next August, if then,,,,He’s a 2010 stratch….move on”
Probably true about the time it will take to get CMW back to where he was in 2008 when he was on a trajectory for a 20 win season, but no way do you “move on” with him. CMW is the perfect type for pitcher for the NYS and he will do very well in the mix with CC, AJ, Phil and….
Hey guys, is $40,000 a year a good first year salary coming out of college?
Perfect case scenario?
Phil starts the season, and then midseason he goes to the pen to top off his innings. Hopefully to coincide with Wang’s return as the “Replacements”.
Wang needs to go slow and steady with the rehab and get back to his former form that nearly won him 20 games in back to back years.
If you rank the 2010 season starting pitching options of CC, AJ, Andy (for another year), a recovered and healthy CMW, and Hughes, Chamberlain is an asset that can be used to upgrade other parts of the line up that are not as strong. Not saying this will happen, but it would be wrong to rule it out peremptorily.
————
Cashman has already had opportunities to trade his top young arms and hasn’t budged.
The fan base and media couldn’t scream loud enough for the Yanks to make a splash at the deadline for another starter and he refused to do it given the high asking price for guys like Washburn, Lee, and Halladay.
Based on recent history, you shouldn’t expect Joba to go anywhere.
I’ll bet Boston gets Halladay!!
If Colorado can beat the Brewers tomorrow, they’ll have trimmed the Dodgers lead in the division to 2 games. The Rockies and Dodgers start a 3 game set on Friday.
“I’ll bet Boston gets Halladay!!”
That is not a positive thought.
Joba will continue to be given every chance to succeed as a starter for the Yankees. He was drafted as a starter, came up through the system as a starter, projected to be a #1.
The Yankees have not handled him so delicately (perhaps too delicately) to give up on him.
Joba has struggled mightily this year. And somehow, with him being mediocre at best in the rotation all year and having a weird innings limit, they STILL have managed to win 100+ games and finish with the best record in baseball. For all his problems, he is not hurting the team.
So next year, he will continue to be developed as a starter. He will be given every chance to succeed, until he proves undeniably he cannot start in New York. If that requires a stint in AAA, so be it. Luckily, we can afford to be patient, because it will take another full, disastrous year to prove that.
“Based on recent history, you shouldn’t expect Joba to go anywhere.”
Except back to the minors, like when they sent Hughes and Kennedy.
Okay, Jack Curry with the curious Bats entry about Verlander talking to Joba about how the Yankees are handling him.
“We had the postseason and they just kind of let me go, even though I was really fatigued and tired,” Verlander said. “They said: ‘Here’s the ball. This is what you’re going to have to do for the rest of your career.’ ”
Verlander was shown a list of all the guys who made big jumps and saw that Blevlan and Clemens were on it, so he thought, “why not me?”
Curry ends his entry asking if Joba’s thinking the same.
2 things. First, Joba had shoulder issues. Second, didn’t Verlander hit a wall last season? Like thud?
Anyway, I’ve got zero issues with limiting Joba’s innings.
—.—.—.
October 1st, 2009 at 2:19 am
I’ll bet Boston gets Halladay!!
——————————————————-
Let Boston acquire Halladay. That won’t solve any of their real problems, such as SS, C, and rapidly aging offense. And their already weakening farm system will be gutted.
Boston isn’t getting Halladay, either. Not a chance.
The first guy the Jays would ask for in return is Buchholz and Theo has refused to part with him for two years.
Now that Buchholz looks like a major league pitcher, there’s no way Theo is going to give him up now, especially since Michael Bowden looks really shaky and he might be their #2 or #3 pitching prospect right now.
Seems like people refuse to look at the GM’s recent history and their propensity to stick with the young arms they’ve already got in the system.
“Wang needs to go slow and steady with the rehab and get back to his former form that nearly won him 20 games in back to back years.”
m,
Absolutely.
To go back to earlier thread, GREAT transition, Sam! I’m out of sync with time zones, so this blog has been my lifeline to the Yanks. Keep on keeping on. Exciting times ahead.
—.—.—.
October 1st, 2009 at 2:19 am
I’ll bet Boston gets Halladay!!
————————————————————
Really? Is Boston prepared to deal Lester, Buchholz and Ellsbury and take back Wells’ contract, too? That’s about what it will take.
Backbench
October 1st, 2009 at 1:36 am
“Some of those issues were weight, stubbornness, lack of control or denial. Some were accused of having little or no talent.”
GB
I’m sure I missed it, but I haven’t seen anyone accuse Chamberlain of having no talent. Quite the contrary. He has talent. But talent alone does not imply consistent success, which is what the NYYs require of their SPs going forward.
In the nearly 55 years since Koufax started his career, it is probably fair to say that hundreds of young players with ‘talent’ arrived on the scene to much fanfare. Would it be great if Chamberlain rose to the level of the players you listed? Absolutely. Is it a given?
————————————————————
Obviously the entire thing went completely over your head.
Pat M.
October 1st, 2009 at 1:35 am
GB, Just send Joba along with Hughes & Kennedy to the Performance for Atheletes conditioning foundation…..He’ll be transforned into a core strength monster……And then you’ll get your 98 mph gas back
————————————————————
I’ll agree with you on that, but, I’d send Cabrera, Gardner, Coke and Austin Jackson along.
Where is everybody!?
I have been one acquainted with the night.
I have walked out in rain — and back in rain.
I have outwalked the furthest city light.
I have looked down the saddest city lane.
I have passed by the watchman on his beat
And dropped my eyes, unwilling to explain.
I have stood still and stopped the sound of feet
When far away an interrupted cry
Came over houses from another street,
But not to call me back or say good-bye;
And further still at an unearthly height,
O luminary clock against the sky
Proclaimed the time was neither wrong nor right.
I have been one acquainted with the night.
Robert Frost
As bad a night as it was for Joba, it was that much and more of a great night for our new man Sam. Congrats on a job well done. You met Pete’s gold standard. Looking forward to the playoff coverage.
All things point to Chamberlain no longer in Girardi’s circle of trust, at least as a starting pitcher for this season.
A winter’s worth of screwing his head on straight and better conditioning of himself can change things for 2010.
“Okay, Jack Curry with the curious Bats entry about Verlander talking to Joba about how the Yankees are handling him.
“We had the postseason and they just kind of let me go, even though I was really fatigued and tired,” Verlander said. “They said: ‘Here’s the ball. This is what you’re going to have to do for the rest of your career.’ ”
Verlander was shown a list of all the guys who made big jumps and saw that Blevlan and Clemens were on it, so he thought, “why not me?”
Curry ends his entry asking if Joba’s thinking the same.
2 things. First, Joba had shoulder issues. Second, didn’t Verlander hit a wall last season? Like thud?
Anyway, I’ve got zero issues with limiting Joba’s innings.”
You’re right about Verlander having major problems last season, but it was two years after his innings jump of 2006. However, I think the Yankees needed to restict Joba’s innings especially with his shoulder problems from last season.
The Carl Crawford question ……
Crawford open to long-term deal
Posted By Marc Lancaster at Sep 30, 2009 at 04:29 PM
Updated Sep 30, 2009 at 04:36 PM
The Rays almost certainly will pick up Carl Crawford’s 2010 option following the season, but the outfielder would be open to extending his relationship with the team beyond next year.
Crawford said today that he would be open to a long-term deal with the Rays this winter and said he “would like to be a part of” the Rays’ future.
He noted that that wasn’t the case before last season, but he has confidence that the organization remains headed in the right direction and won’t regress to its old ways.
“I hope we can get something done,” he said.
The fear I have with Crawford is that we end up getting him at just the wrong time. I really like him as a player, from the first game I saw him in, I felt like he was the Rays first chance at a true superstar. However, he hasn’t developed his full game over the past few years as much as you would like to see. Once his speed starts to go, he is an average player. A player like Johnny Damon developed the rest of his offensive game, so that now he is even more effective than he was as a speedy player. I don’t know that is going to happen with Crawford. Plus, he needs to hit lead-off to be most effective, but he has stated many times how he hates to lead off.
He would be a great addition right now, but from maybe two years from now, on, he may be a player in decline.
A couple of thoughts – or more – while I sip coffee before the AM commute –
1. At least Joba is acknowledging he’s inconsistent. Acceptance is the first step. Now he needs to do something about it in the off season. (If he could change something now, he would.) The training insititute where Phil went last winter is a great idea. A lot of pro athletes from various sports go there and rave about it. They seem to tailor a program for the individual. If conditioning is part of the problem, you can’t get much better.
2. Joba isn’t getting traded. Young pitching is gold, and Cash isn’t wasteful. They are going to give Joba every single chance to succeed or prove them wrong.
3. Anything can happen, but I don’t see Doc going to Boston. What does Boston have that Toronto would be interested in? Bucholz for starters, but, he also is a young, cost-controlled pitcher. Why would Theo trade him for someone infinitely more expensive? Bad business move. And whom else in Boston’s pipeline would Toronto be interested in? Unless the Sox also take on Wells’ contract (another bad business move), it ain’t happening.
To see where Doc is going, look at teams with deep and good farm systems.
Off to work. Great job last night, Sam.
IMO, the Red Sox would rather want King Felix than Halladay because of the age difference. However, I hope Seattle keeps King Felix just like I hope the Twins keep Mauer because it’s best for baseball.
Great first day, Sam. A seamless transition.
Learning under the glare of a white hot spotlight is quite an ordeal. Joba has had such an uneven season. The positives? He did show he is capable of being a dominant starter. Negatives? Mostly inconsistency and question marks about his conditioning.
I expect that the Yankees will have him take care of business over the winter with regard to getting into shape and learning how to stay that way.
I expect that he will not pitch in the ALDS.
I expect he will be on the roster in the ALCS if the Yankees get there.
I expect that Brian Cashman will remain invested in Joba for a couple of reasons. He is still developing and patience can yield a cost-controlled, front line starting pitcher for year. And, right now his trade value would have to be at its lowest. He wouldn’t necessarily be the keystone in a deal, meaning other good prospects would also be going. Plus, wouldn’t we all be pulling our hair out if he’s traded only to reach the promised land for another team?
Patience will pay off here, I believe
And to piggyback on last night’s conversation, feeling that Joba shouldn’t pitch in the ALDS is not giving up on his long-term development. It is saying that the most important thing is post-season wins and putting the team in the best position to get them. The playoffs are a “crapshoot” as it is, so the fewer questions marks you have, the better.
no team is going to part with a king felix type pitcher who is as good as it gets,young,cost controlled
its like trading 10 million dollars for 5 million
you also never know.toronto might trade halladay to the rs for less than you think to shed money because halladay is going to get big bucks
im sure they wont give him away but no way will it take lester,buchhol,ellsbury when lester alone is almost in his class
bru, I like Lester quite a bit, but I wouldn’t say he’s in Halladay’s class. Not yet, at least, as he’s still pretty young. However, I agree it wouldn’t take that huge haul you mentioned for the Sux to get him.
At this point it would probably be best if the Yankees left Joba off the postseason roster. Let him spend the offseason getting his head together and begin next season fresh. At least he won’t have to work with an unreasonable innings limit next year.
Pitchers for the postseason:
CC Sabathia
Andy Pettite
AJ Burnett
Chad Gaudin
Mariano Rivera
Phil Hughes
Dave Roberston
Phil Coke
Brian Bruney
Alfredo Aceves
i think joba is winded easily because he is in territory that he has never been in
he has always had weight issues
i think if he gets in great shape mentally & physically he will dominate
this is why it comes & goes with him
he gets winded,his mechanics change then his velo drops.
he is not driving off his legs.he is just throwing the ball.all arms
“However, I hope Seattle keeps King Felix just like I hope the Twins keep Mauer because it’s best for baseball.”
By extension, would it have been better for baseball if Sabathia were still hurling for the Brewers or Indians and Teixeira were playing Rangers, Braves or Angels??
“However, I hope Seattle keeps King Felix just like I hope the Twins keep Mauer because it’s best for baseball.”
By extension, would it have been better for baseball if Sabathia were still hurling for the Brewers or Indians and Teixeira were playing Rangers, Braves or Angels??
—————————————————
Proabably not!!! The Brewers, and Angels are still drawing well without CC & Tex. I’m not sure that Seattle and Minnesota will be able to survive the loss of Mauer and Hernandez.
“Proabably not!!! The Brewers, and Angels are still drawing well without CC & Tex. I’m not sure that Seattle and Minnesota will be able to survive the loss of Mauer and Hernandez.”
My point is, nobody here has concerns about what’s “best for baseball” when it’s the Yankees getting the big ticket items, but otherwise folks are suddenly worried about the Twins, Mariners and what’s best for baseball.
“Proabably not!!! The Brewers, and Angels are still drawing well without CC & Tex. I’m not sure that Seattle and Minnesota will be able to survive the loss of Mauer and Hernandez.”
My point is, nobody here has concerns about what’s “best for baseball” when it’s the Yankees getting the big ticket items, but otherwise folks are suddenly worried about the Twins, Mariners and what’s best for baseball.
—————————————————-
What’s best for baseball is that Mauer and Hernandez stay in Minnesota and Seattle respectively, instead of going to the Yankees or anywhere else.
There, does that make you feel better.
Joba’s running on fumes – and seemingly has been for a while. He needs serious conditioning work and arm strength work on top of that.
If he commits to it he could realize his great potential. If he doesn’t, he will go by the wayside like so many have before him.
It’s all on him.