Should MLB use instant replay more often?
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It wasn’t surprising that the-double-that-wasn’t was still a topic during today’s workouts, with both managers giving their opinion on whether MLB should allow umpires to utilize instant replay in more situations than it is currently.
Here’s Girardi’s take: “The thing about baseball is it’s a real rhythm game … (so) if you were to start to instant replay all these plays, I think it would break the rhythm of the game, and our games all get to be four games long. I like the way they are doing it, just home run calls, those are important plays.
Here’s Gardenhire’s take: The great thing about baseball is the human elements involved, and we always want to keep it that way, not easy when you are in New York. The lines are short and it’s not easy, so there you have it. You are going to have a few. We made enough mistakes ourselves and we missed opportunities to win the game ourselves, too. It just goes that way sometimes. I think if you saw the last game against Detroit, (there was a pitch that) looked like it might have (Inge’s) jersey. That was a run, that game could have went that way, so breaks are part of it and it went against us this time.”
Here’s my take: I’m weird in that I love technology for so many things (including my iPhone) but am generally against it in sports, especially when it comes to officials. Basically, errors are part of the game for everyone … except officials? I don’t like that. And I wrote about it once before, so check that column out here if you’re interested.
UPDATE, 7:20 p.m. CST: I know my take on this is unusual and just looking at some of the comments already reminds me of the e-mails I got when that column came out. I think part of my hesitance on replay is that I don’t ever want there to be a day where there are no umpires at all because they’ve been replaced by robots or cameras or something. That would be wrong.
I also think it’d be wrong to have human umpires but have every call they make subject to some review, and I fear that when you open it up and start using replay for one thing, it’s only a matter of time before you want it for everything. And that would just be sad for baseball, I think. Whatever you may think about the “men in blue,” they’re a part of the game and should stay that way.
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on Saturday, October 10th, 2009 at 7:55 pm by Sam Borden.
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Chad Jennings
Josh Thomson
Comon Sammy…
that makes zero sense. If you have the opportunity to get every single call right and let the players, and only the players, decide the outcome of a game, why wouldn’t you do that? What you’re saying is that errors are nice, it’s good to have them. That’s just crazy. If we have the chance of eliminating errors that might influence the game, we should definately do it.
If we have the technology to get calls correct, why not use it? There isn’t a logical reason to do so otherwise.
Umpires don’t want to screw up. People don’t want to see officials screw up. People don’t want to see games compromised by bad calls.
MLB has effective enough technology to do this properly. Do it.
And seriously, what is the rush? What would people be doing with the extra 15 minutes if umpires screwed up 3 calls? Playoff games last 4 hours without replay as is. Is 5 minutes per blown call really going to make that big of a difference to ANYONE if the calls are properly corrected?
In Tennis, an egregious call against Serena Williams led to them implementing IR challenges for the players. Why doesn’t baseball follow suit?
In tennis, each player gets 3 challenges a set. If they are right, they don’t lose a challenge, but if they are wrong, 1 challenge is deducted from their total. This can work in baseball as well. Since baseball games take too long as it is, I would limit each team to 2 challenges. They can use them as they see fit (i.e. close play at home, ball called foul in the outfield or a HR call). The only change I would make to how they do it in tennis is that if the team is right on a challenge, they still use up that challenge and their overall challenge total is reduced. As I mentioned before, games take too long already and if a team is allowed to keep their challenges and they get on a hot streak and are always right, this could add countless minutes to the game.
I think that MLB should give it some thought. It can be implemented w/o it adding too many minutes to the game.
Absolutely not…
This was SO predictable, though… MLB opened Pandora’s box when they went to replay on HR calls, and now there will always be demand for more and more use of it, every time there is a questionable or bad call.
My view is, if you’re going to “fix” SOME of the calls, then fix them all!
This idea that well, THIS call is more important than THAT call is ridiculous. How many times does replay prove a bang/bang call at first was wrong???
What happens the first time that’s the third out of an inning when it shouldn’t have been and there was a runner coming home from third??? Now we have to replay that.
What happens when an umpire behind the plate has a bad night, like our man last night did, and he calls strike 3 on what replays CLEARLY show should have been ball 4 with the bases were loaded??? Now we have to replay that.
Fix ‘em all or leave ‘em all alone… I’m for the latter.
Why have “human” umpires at all. Just set up a bunch of cameras and sensors throughout the playing field. The game would be a lot better that way, right?
Leave the game alone.
the dodgers are doing a lot better than most people thought they would this series
Come on, Sam. Really? How could you not want every call to be the right one?
Sam – that was a nice column you wrote.
1. I agree, the games are long as is, but that is because, at least in the Yankees case, because they take so many pitches. That, in itself, is not a reason to not use replay.
2. I would leave it to the umpire’s discretion. If they feel that a call is reasonably in doubt, then let them use whatever means, whether it’s conferring or looking at a replay, to get it right.
3. I would not limit the number of reviews. What if there are an extraordinary number of missed calls? Does a team get penalized because of that? What’s right is right.
4. Do you think anyone is going to question LaRussa’s decision to start the famous Joel Pineiro tonight, and not that journeyman pitcher named John Smoltz?
Eventually I don’t see why they just track the balls and use technology to call every call correctly every time without the need for umpires.
A part of me agrees with Joe, that the games are long enough and IR could potentially make it longer.
Also, where does it end…HR calls are already here and i can see fair/foul calls, but what about out/safe…I mean if you slow down most plays at first, I’m left saying I thought tie went to the runner.
The sad thing about this is that no matter how the call went no one could say what would have happened had it been a ground rule double…
What are the odds that you get the bases loaded with none out and can’t push across a run?
If you start instant replay for one facet (i.e fair or foul), you are going to have to start doing it for every thing.
Why shouldn’t balls and strikes be reviewed, especially if they are as conspicuous as that Angels/Sox game a few weeks ago in Fenway?
Why shouldn’t bang-bang plays at the plate or 1st base be reviewed? Why shouldn’t a close steal be reviewed?
Before we know it, the games are 4 hours long and the rhythm is disrupted.
Congrats to Torre’s Dodgers for their 2nd straight NLCS appearance.
St. Louis had one of the best 1-2 front line pitchers in the post season and are 9 outs away from going home.
As long as the replays are available for mistakes by HP umps, yes. If not, no.
Vader
St. Louis had one of the best 1-2 front line pitchers in the post season and are 9 outs away from going home.
__
They appled.
The real trouble with instant replay being used for called plays in the field, is that it misses some of the true game changing calls from the Home Plate Umpire. I bet, if you were to keep count in how many games are changed by balls being called strikes or vice versa, than a play like last night of a ball being foul or fair, or even in some throws being an out or safe.
I understand what Joe is saying about the rhythm of the game possibly being disrupted, but isn’t that what sometimes the manager who goes out to argue a call is doing?
The challenge is a possibility, but managers can use that on calls that they know are good just to disrupt the playing, giving their players a time to regroup.
If it isn’t being used for balls and strikes, which I think in many cases causes more game results to be different, then how is it fair to use them for other calls?
Cards about to be swept. Very surprising.
Vicente Padilla? Really?
Padilla?
NL is a joke…
how do guys like Penny, Pedro, Smoltz, Padilla, Garland, Randy Johnson etc. go there and dominate???
Why in the world would Molina go to third on that play?
Damon said that Sam,Josh and Chad must be paid per thread,I think it’s true!!
Cardinals put too much weight on Pujols,they act as if he’s the whole team,and their pen was bad this year.Coming into post season they lost the last 13-20 or 8-10,.The Rockies ate them up this year,Cards lost 6-1 against them too.
Holliday,Lugo,De Rosa,late acquisitions helped them get to postseason.
I listen to local radio over the computer for different states,on radiotime.com.Mike Shannon is calling this game.He said the Cardinals to ger a playoff berth.Wrong.They were the first to clinch their sorry division,but the Yankees were the 1st to get a play off berth.Then the Cards clinched.
Incredibly dumb play by Molina.
Dodgers don’t need any more help.
If the Yanks make it thru the AL the WS is going to be a cakewalk.
Only team that matches up somewhat is the Phillies, and their BP is a disaster.
If every play can get a review, no one will bother watching baseball as it will just be a plodding, boring mess.
Wouldn’t it be better to evaluate how well or poorly each umpire does and if they have a certain number of bad calls they get sent down to the minors again. If you hold the umpires accountable on a grading system they may actually be making more of an effort to get it right.
The grading could reflect difficult calls vs. out right poor calls. It should also be measured for strike zone calls. When you know your job depends on you getting it right it makes for better performance.
Now the umpires are about as reliable as weathermen, and nothing ever seems to happen to them.
Take C B Buckner as a case. He has been voted the worse umpire by the players multiple times. How is he still doing the job, and in the post season?
Not every play. You give a manager x number of challenges like the NFL has, but those challenges can be on balls and strikes as well.
i can’t really feel for the twins here, they had the bags juiced with no one out in the same inning…
Allow 1 replay per series.
That’s all.
The umps have been terrible this year.
stevR
Smoltz(Braves),Penny(Marlins),and Johnson (Diamond backs) are all from the NL.
I have said it before and will say it again…I can not stand hearing about or seeing Donnie Baseball in Dodger Blue…it makes me sick!
Don’t think it would be hard to have automatic review by the league office or an official in the stadium for foul balls. Hockey uses such a system for goals only and the referees on the ice play no part in the decision, which I think is a good system. A challenge system like football is unnecessary
And I don’t think simply by allowing an official to look at the available replays for hrs and foul balls that eventually there will be replays for strikes or plays at the plate.
Johnson made his bones with the Mariners.
Actually, Johnson is from the Mariners (after a short stay with the Expos, when he was young & very wild)
Yeah, I hate seeing Donnie in that uni too. Torre, I don’t care about.
“Not every play. You give a manager x number of challenges like the NFL has, but those challenges can be on balls and strikes as well.”
That’s what I said in like the 4th post of this thread, yet everyone wants to ignore the idea and just so No, No, No. Fine. This happened against the Twins. We’ll see how they feel when it happens against us and we lose the game because of it.
Can’t believe took Donnie Dodger with him to LA.
RAB just posted the same thing. My thoughts:
I’m for instant replay for fair/foul, home runs and close calls on the bases, but only with a football-style challenge system.
I’d say three challenges, with a failed challenge costing an out (a team on offense would lose an out, ie, 2 outs in the inning, and a team on defense would have to get an extra out).
Yes, I know it’s radical.
That said, what business does MLB have letting dudes like CB Bucknor umpire postseason games, anyway?
Rich in NJ
October 10th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
Yeah, I hate seeing Donnie in that uni too. Torre, I don’t care about.
====================================================
Just had this conversation in my house as well…
Who cares what Joe Torre does with his traitor self.
But seeing Donnie Baseball in that Dodger dugout is painful.
Laura – I want Matsui in pinstripes in 2010!
Sorry, I missed it. Good post.
Vader
I’ll go you one better.St Louis has the # 1 Wainwright and #2 Carpenter, CY CONTENDERS 2009!!
See what happens when you watch baseball,and look at stats only? You miss the whole picture.
Sam, I agree with you. Personally, I don’t even like replay on homeruns. Umpires do an awesome job, and people just focus on the calls they blow. I can’t say I’d ever quit watching baseball, but I can’t imagine enjoying watching a game that uses more instant replays or “challenge” flags.
Umpires should be graded and held accountable. Unfortunately, they are not. That’s why you have CB Buckner and Joe West working post season games.
I don’t like it either, but once they gave Girardi the Manager’s job Donnie had to go somewhere to keep paying his dues until his name gets called.
No way it would happen here – way too much of a distraction.
IMO, Torre was good for the Yankees, but like most managers, there is a time to move on.
In regards to Donnie…I grew up rooting for him as a kid and will always remember 1995 him hitting the turf in Toronto on the last game of the year, as well as being at The Stadium when he hit his first post season HR…the place shook so much, it felt like it was going to come down.
After a player is done playing I could care less who he coaches for. I think Mattingly will inherit Torres job in LA which is a good thing. It does look like we are on a collision corse for Yanks-Dodgers in the WS. I dont see any threat coming from the Angels… and I think the Dodgers have shown they are the class of the NL. Get it on !! Id love to see Torree knocked out of it in NY.
haiku-man
October 10th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Vader
I’ll go you one better.St Louis has the # 1 Wainwright and #2 Carpenter, CY CONTENDERS 2009!!
See what happens when you watch baseball,and look at stats only? You miss the whole picture.
I agree 100%
I mentioned this earlier this morning, but, I’ll repeat it. Until umpires are held to the same standards of ability/common sense and hustle that ball players are, they have no incentive to improve. A ball player that shows no hustle, no attempt to improve or constantly making mistakes is either benched, traded, released or sent to the minors.
MLB already has that technology in place, but, has no intentions of using it. Release the stats on blown calls at each base and home plate, arguements that they incite or esculate. If they reach a certain number, get rid if them. Make them go to refresher courses every other year and do not rotate the umpires through the all-Star games and post seasons. If they fail to reach a standard mark, they are unacceptable for the honors and monitary benefits.
I wouldn’t take the Angels so lightly.
That won’t be easy – 6 or 7 games.
If NYY face LAD, no more than 5
Yes…….I’d rather get plays right.
The Cards totally collapsed – I’m not going to sing the praises of the Dodgers. They are a good team, but they spent much of the second half in something of a free fall.
Rose
October 10th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Umpires should be graded and held accountable. Unfortunately, they are not. That’s why you have CB Buckner and Joe West working post season games.
————————————————————
They are graded, but, the grades are ignored.
Fan, youve got to be kidding.. Umpires do an awesome job?? Have you been watching? The umpiring has gotten progressively worse the last few years. Im glad they now use the instant replay for homeruns. Ive seen more than a few calls already reversed because the umpires have initially made the wrong call. I contend it should be instituted more — we have the technology now ( i.e. pitch track etc).. There really is no need for umpires anymore. Let the players play the game and have it scored electronically. You could have the pitch track on the scorebored showing whether it was in the box or not. Maybe employee an ump in the press box to debate the merits of check swings etc that could not be objectively scored by a computer.
Yankees would be crazy to let the Sayonara kid(Matsui) go!
We’ll get to a full review system eventually, but why rush it?
I’d like to keep the game “pure” as long as possible.
Fine with the homerun calls, if you notice, there’s hardly been any challenges this year.
Next will be foul line reviews (thanks to Cuzzi).
Another idea is to have play reviews only in the playoffs.
Another idea is to get rid of the old, fat umps that are too lazy to get into position to make the right call, or make a call based on anticipation.
Balls & strikes should stay human, but they need to dock umps if they blow calls outside an acceptable standard deviation.
How about a challenge flag system for calls on the basepath? Those are the hardest to call, and the ones that are often blatantly wrong.
“Who cares what Joe Torre does with his traitor self.”
Why is Torre a traitor? Yankees didn’t want him and he didn’t want to stay. Must be something good about him because Donnie and Bowa both went with him to LA.
The umpires can’t possibly be on the “merit” system with some of the bozos out there now.
For starters, how about a consistent strike zone, boys?
GreenBeret7
Can you explain the point of grading umpires if the grades are ignored.
m
“I’d like to keep the game “pure” as long as possible.”
__
What does that even mean in era of wild cards, HR replays, virtually no WS day games, dome stadiums, highly skewed payrolls, etc?
The game stopped being pure with the Black Sox scandal. In other words, it never really was.
Last night you had two teams with a total payroll of $270m (not counting coaches, managers, etc) fighting for a chance to go to the ALCS. There were 50,000 paying customers there to see which team could win that battle. Millions more watched at home. At stake are millions of dollars in revenue for the winning team and its home town.
And it may have been decided by a mistake made by a guy pulling down $100k. A guy no one in the world knew at the time the game started, a guy no one was tuning in to watch, a guy who is not paid to decide the game. And the tragedy is that the mistake could have easily been avoided with the push of a button. We not only have the technology to fix these problems, but we have it installed and operating. The only reason it is not used is because some people are stubborn luddites.
Yes, the human element is part of the game. That’s the players. The umpires are there because when the game was invented 150 years ago, there was no better choice. But they were there only as a tool to facilitate the game between the players. Since then we’ve improved the bats, the gloves, the uniforms, the shoes, the helmets, the stadiums, the training, the medicine… everything there that is meant to assist the players do what they do has been improved, but we stubbornly refuse to use any technology that might help an umpire do their damn job.
Forget about the teams – why the hell can’t a manager simply admit “I couldn’t see what happened – can we get the replay?” The umpires don’t want to be in this position. They don’t want to cost a team a game, let alone a series, because they goofed.
We have replay. It works. Why is it only for balls that fly into the stands, and not balls that bounce on the line, or tags at the plate, or to see if a ball was trapped or caught?
I understand not wanting to completely remove the human element (though honestly, if the umpires were replaced by cameras and sensors tomorrow, how many would really notice or care?), and not wanting to slow the game down. So give each team one replay that they can request per game. They’d be saved for key moments, so they wouldn’t slow down the game, and they’d sure stop a lot of on the field arguing.
Approximately 22 hours and counting….
Rich,
How about we keep it pure until they can get the androids to get it right?
PLEASE don’t get him started.
The one place where technology could be applied fairly easily without changing the flow of the game is inside and outside pitch calls. It shouldn’t be hard to put some sort of sensor over the plate to detect whether the ball really crossed the corner. High and low would be more difficult because of variation in stances.
Mel, I have no idea what Cuzzi so or what happened, but, he is one of the better umpires around and very level headed. As long as players/coaches/managers don’t get personal, he usually lets them have their say. I would imagine that he feels at least as bad about that call as the Twins do.
Rose
Why is Torre a traitor? Yankees didn’t want him and he didn’t want to stay. Must be something good about him because Donnie and Bowa both went with him to LA.
__
I don’t know if Torre is a traitor, but he is an ingrate.
The Yankees turned his career around by giving him tons of talent to win with, yet even though they didn’t fire when they should have after his horrible mistakes in the 2003 WS and 2004 ALCS, he was insulted by a $5 million one year offer, with incentives like he always had in his contracts. Then he wrote a tell all book, dissing the organization that made him.
Either way, his character stinks.
I could see guys like Kershaw and Billingsly giving us a lot of trouble… hard throwing guys we haven’t seen before.
Wolf, Padilla, Garland will get killed by our lineup (if they are on).
Their offense will hit our pitching. Both have great bullpens.
Dodgers/Yanks is a very evenly matched series.
Mel, I have no idea what Cuzzi ***saw*** or what happened
“Why is Torre a traitor? ”
Because he wrote a book for money and broke the confidences of the players that played for him.
mistred…didn’t the Twins have the bases loaded with no outs?…so I find it hard to say that the blown call cost them anything…he could have been stranded on second.
m
Rich,
How about we keep it pure until they can get the androids to get it right?
__
Sounds like a plan.
Just saying they don’t need to “revolutionize” the game by taking the game totally out of the umps hands. Otherwise, just have pitch trax or the new military system they use call it.
I will be a little worried if Manny is starting to heat up. I know its one game but Manny’s bat speed looked quicker tonight and he turned on the fastball— the Dodgers will be a completely different animal if Manny is “Manny”.
I will be a little worried if Manny is starting to heat up. I know its one game but Manny’s bat speed looked quicker tonight and he turned on the fastball— the Dodgers will be a completely different animal if Manny is “Manny”.
The pressure on us to win the WS against the Dodgers if they make it, would be inordinate.
If we lose, we have all winter to hear about how great Torre is and how firing him was a mistake and how he is the greatest ever, and how dumb the Yankees FO is, and how he was responsible for the 4 rings, etc.
Instead of replays, how about we hand out baby bibs and bah-bahs to all of the crybabies out there?
The human element is what makes this game great. leave it alone.
Rose
October 10th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
GreenBeret7
Can you explain the point of grading umpires if the grades are ignored.
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Make the findings public. If idiots like Bill James can invent silly formulas to evaluate players, they can do the same with umpires. They rate player range, so they can evaluate umpire positioning and hustle.
Never bet against a team with Torre (best postseason manager currently) and Manny (best postseason hitter currently).
Ill be honest I never heard of Phil Cuzzi until last night. Thats the way the umpires like it. They say a good umpire is one who you never talk about. Cuzzi has gotten so much bad press youve got to think MLB has to consider demoting him or at least sending him for an eye exam. He was 10 feet away from the call and still lost sight of the ball. Some conspiracy theorists are saying he was “paid off” by the Yankees but I dont see it. I think he just is a horrible umpire
Torre minus Zimmer…not so good.
m
Just saying they don’t need to “revolutionize” the game by taking the game totally out of the umps hands.
___
That’s why I like the NFL challenge system. It doesn’t revolutionize the game. It merely provides a framework for incremental improvement.
Plus it puts the onus on a manager to use his challenges wisely. If, for example, there are two challenges per game, and a manager gets his first one wrong, he could lose his second.
If baseball implements instant replay for everything, then baseball will sink below the WBNA in popularity.
Nobody wants to watch a computerized, 4 hour sport.
I’ve got no problem with selective instant replay. I would rather have umpires that got calls right consistently. I know it’s a tough job, but damn, that strike zone last night was ridiculous.
It’ll fun (not really) to face the next opponent. They all have their strengths, but so do we. Each game is a chess match that can’t be check-mate until the final out. Beckett was supposed to win. Funny, how that didn’t happen (Tino take your starter out if he starts struggling in the 7th). David Robertson wiggles out of a jam where the odds favored at least one run being plated. One game at a time for me.
But Pat m. got the Dodgers right. Just need to not give Ethier anything to hit, and we’ll be okay. If it’s them. If it’s the Phillies, just need to find a way to get to Cliff Lee. If it’s the Rox, just start polishing those little flags on the trophy.
That’s if it’s us.
I object,2003 loss was on WEAVER,he forgot how to pitch.
The only reason the Twins would be upset over Mauer not being on 2nd,is because he couldn’t tip pitches to the batter,like he always does. On Youtube,search: Mauer tipping pitches 2009.
E-gawa
Yeah, if we don’t agree with you, we’re cry babies, yet we aren’t complaining, you are. Oh, the irony.
Boy…you would think that if the Yankees were going to payoff an ump, it wouldn’t be the left field line ump…
Even with instant replay in the NFL, you still have incidents like Ed Houchili and that ref from the Steelers/Colts game a few years ago.
And in the NBA, you have Bennett Salavator calling phantom fouls to protect Dwayne Wade in the finals.
Instant replay will not solve anything.
We don’t need instant replay.
We need better umpires.
The umpiring across the board in the playoffs has been terrible. Chuck Merriweather has his usual headscratcher behind home plate last night. There’s Cuzzi’s call. There’s the Inge call. Don’t get me started on CB Bucknor.
Mauer’s hit was foul because the ump said it was foul. That’s the way it should be. But it should also be called right. So the answer is better umpiring, not less umpiring.
err Tito
—.—.—.
I object,2003 loss was on WEAVER,he forgot how to pitch.
__
Who left Weaver in for two IP instead realizing that he was lucky to get one good inning out of him and then counting his blessings and changing pitchers?
Yup, JFR.
Eric the game has to change with technology. The sport is still the same, just take the arbitrary calling system out of the equation that we have to endure now because of inconsistent umpiring. Id love a UNIFORM computerized strike zone that will be consistent for all pitchers and teams and wont change from day to day or even pitch to pitch. The technology is already in place in Questec so it wont be ridiculously expensive to change to tho this system. It wont slow the game down at all. In fact, it should speed it up because the “grey area” will be taken away.
Vader
October 10th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
Torre minus Zimmer…not so good.
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Really? What did Zimmer ever win? He presided over the largest in season collapse in baseball hisory in 1978.
“We don’t need instant replay.
We need better umpires.”
It doesn’t look like we are going to get better umpires so we might as well implement some sort of expanded version of IR to try and bridge the gap.
In the Boston/Angels regular series game at Fenway Green was out twice yet he walked. It changed the whole result of the game as if he had been called out it would have been game over and the Angels would have won. Tell me how that isn’t worse than last night’s call. Yet all anyone is advocating is field plays to be reviewed.
Far more games are decided by pitching and the called balls and strikes because wide strike zones can have batters shut down because they have to swing at balls. Same with the small strike zone taking a pitcher out of his game.
If you are going to look to have reviews, even with a limited number of them, it doesn’t address the larger problem of a home plate umpire changing the tenor of a game with how they call the strike zone.
Some are so bad they alter the zone depending on the pitcher or hitter.
How about check swings? How many times are players called out when it is obvious that they checked a swing, or given another swing because they didn’t check their swing, yet the umpire says they did?
If you give it to one facet of the game then it would have to follow to all other aspects of the game.
What would be next? Putting a clock up where the pitcher had to throw the pitch within a set time period?
It would be far more effective to revamp the umpiring staffs and hold them accountable. Just look at how much better the umpires are with home run calls now. How much you want to bet that the umpires who have been ripped apart for their terrible calls this week will be paying closer attention to the plays and make better calls?
“Really? What did Zimmer ever win? He presided over the largest in season collapse in baseball hisory in 1978.”
GB, there are a lot of fans who believe that the reason we had the dynasty years was because Zimmer had Torre’s ear and was guiding him. After Zimmer left, we didn’t have the same kind of success. Is it coincidence? Not sure. Just telling you what I’ve read from other posters.
At least Torre’s book was better than Selena Robert’s book which was filled with innuendos about Alex.
Torre’s book had some great insights about baseball.
Well folks it looks like its shaping up Yankees-Dodgers. Oh boy what a drama with Torree coming back to NY.
Manny best postseason hitter,better find a wink wink protein shake.That record was ahem,MANUFACTURED,as we all know now!
pOSTSEASON IS A BEAS
Ok, my post keeps being eaten. I will try to do this in parts.
GB, I love your ideas.
it might be strange seeing mattingly in a dodger uni
Well the Dodgers win. Cards look like they were really a house of cards.
What happened to the best hitters in the game? Pujols and Holliday were pretty much non-factors.
GB7…and what has Torre done with out him??? oh yeah blow a 3-0 lead in 2004 and get bounced in the first round every year after.
No running on Wakefield…no bunting on Schilling.
We will have to agree to diagree as like with last nigt and your…rookie pitcher facing two lefties comment.
Meant beast,Cardinals owned the Dodgers in regulation play.
CARDINALS had no fight IN THEM. WOW, sad. HOLLIDAY TRADE for nothing. He costed them a game in the playoffs rather than helped them win one.
The thing that worries me about the Dodgers is that Torree is so familiar with the NY media circus. I think he has a stablizing influence that will help the Dodgers. Im mildly scared of the Dodgers. They also have a much better bullpen than the Phillies.
My father is a l a w ye r
We need Marte and Cokey to get Ethier out.
Joba in the pen
At least Torre’s book was better than Selena Robert’s book which was filled with innuendos about Alex.
___
Blank pages are better than Roberts’s book.
“You talking about practice.”
That’s Manny being Manny.
and every year he has to take Continuing Legal Education). All attorneys have to do this for credit – I imagine to keep their minds sharp and to keep them apprised of new ideas and changes in laws. I’m sure there that doctors have something similar as well………
Marte can’t get anyone OUT. He was on THE VERGE OF costing us GAME 2. Troll.
I think that umps would be well-advised to institute something like this. The rules of baseball haven’t really changed, but it’s always good to be reminded of them anyway (RIGHT, Marty Foster?). It might also do them some good to realize that they aren’t the game, the PLAYERS are.
Am I a sick person for being sligtly upset that it snowed, and that there will be no baseball in Colorado?
“E-gawa
Yeah, if we don’t agree with you, we’re cry babies, yet we aren’t complaining, you are. Oh, the irony.”
Who’s complaining? I only offered an alternative suggestion to the instant replay. Sorry you took offense to it but it’s true.
Folks, good teams can go cold in a short series. I still contend the Cardinals were the better of the two teams but they went cold and these things happen. We saw it happen to the Yanks when the Tigers stunned them.
Folks, good teams can go cold in a short series. I still contend the Cardinals were the better of the two teams but they went cold and these things happen. We saw it happen to the Yanks when the Tigers stunned them.
Dodgers are a very scary team to face. Torre knows us inside out. He has a great bullpen, which covers up for their mediocre starters. Their offense can slug with anyone too.
I think the Dodgers give us more mnatchup problems than the Sox or Angels do.
Sorry for the different posts, but that was the only way I could say what I wanted to say.
Cards choked………and I HATE that Padilla, that punk, is moving on. That’s his reward for plunking Tex and being an overall jerk as a teammate?
Betsy
and every year he has to take Continuing Legal Education).
__
Not in NJ.
I am very happy for Saint Joe tonight. I cant stand that LaRussa who I think is vastly overated. Torree is pure class.
E-gawa
Who’s complaining? I only offered an alternative suggestion to the instant replay. Sorry you took offense to it but it’s true.
__
So we’e not cry babies for proposing ways to improve MLB?
It is my opinion that instant replay should be used in post season play only. Teams play through 162 games to get to the post season with the WS as the ultimate goal. Why penalize a team on such a poor call as was made on Mauer’s hit?
A system should be developed that would allow a certain number of plays to be reviewed per game. To avoid the time hassle only two plays would be permitted per team per game.
Wow – the umpiring has been poor this year. MLB needs to follow it’s policy on grading umpires and enforce it strictly.
Heres one for you: Post the grades of all the umpires at the end of the week. lol.
Ken, it doesn’t account for the size of the batter with that strike zone, while the true strike zone is supposed to. It is to be measured against the player’s stature.
Its a reason why Pedroia becomes a little tougher to strike out, his strike zone is smaller than Ortiz. Its also one reason some players crouch down before they get ready to swing, then straighten up.
“Torre minus Zimmer…not so good.”
Didn’t know Zimmer went with Torre to LA. Guess Torre can’t manage without Zimmer.
You know as soon as Manny sees the “NY” on the jersey… he is going to turn into a .500 hitter and hit like 10 HRs in the series against us.
That Dodgers team has underachieved in the 2nd half but they are now heating up. They have all the pieces to win.
The next argument after this one is to eliminate the umpires from the game and have everything second guessed through a machine. For what reason?
Wow, I wanna see Fenway park tommorow if and when the sox lose. Maybe there’ll be a riot of some sort. ROFL.
LA has something special going on. 2 years in a row they knocked out the heavy favorite in a first round sweep (Cubs, Cards)… very impressive.
Padilla wins the clinching game for the Dodgers. His teammates love him now LOL!
E-gawa
The next argument after this one is to eliminate the umpires from the game and have everything second guessed through a machine. For what reason
_)
Two challenges per game per manager. Stay focused.
What has Torre won since Zimmer left his side?
The Yankees don’t need to fear anyone…….forget the Dodgers as we are a long way off from facing them. I don’t care about Torre anymore – he’s a bitter old man. He doesn’t know this team because it’s not the same team as he managed….
Boy oh boy Torre slapped La Russa in game 1,when he beat Carpenter and shut down Pujo;s and Holliday.He never recovered the rest of the series.
Has there ever been the no 1 and no 2 CY contenders on the same team,that lost like this in postseason? Weinwright pitched great,nut got no help from his team.
I dont want to get too far ahead of myself. The Yankees still have to deal with a tough Angels team and the Dodgers are most likely going to have to beat a dangerous Phillies team. We are talking like Dodgers-Yanks is destined.
You’re not purposing ways to improve the MLB. You’re purposing ways to make the game perfect. The game wasn’t meant to be perfect.
Uh, guys. Why is the filter so cranky today?
Totally wrong on this one, Sam. Umpires are not part of the game. No more than a judge should be part of a court case. Their job is to administer the orderly play of the game. No reason not to use replay. Some of the calls have been inexcusable.
Geez that Press conference with LaRussa was ridiculously short- they asked him 2 questions and he left. In NY, they ask 10-15 questions.
Why not just admit the Yankees made a mistake by firing Torre?
He wasn’t the problem…. Cashman’s assembling of pitchers was.
Torre’s dominance in LA proves that he wasn’t the problem here.
I’m not sold on the Dodgers yet.
The Phillies – and even the Rockies – can knock them off.
That said, I would still love to see NYY – LAD in the WS.
The Cards really went out like lambs tonight – pretty sad.
Vicente f’n Padilla? Really?
Computerized umpires and electronic strike zones will never work. What happens when the electronic devices crap out in the middle of the game? Cancel the games? You can’t turn decisions over to a computer. If the Wizards Of Baseball know how the computers are programmed, how long will that secret be kepy/ If they can get into a computer any 9th grade hacker can. They get into Pentagon computers all the time. The only real thing that works is a grading system that actually penalizes the umpires with demotions or firings.
“Two challenges per game per manager. Stay focused.”
Just like it was supposed to end at the HR replay.
The Cards choked…..I’m not overly impressed with the Dodgers.
Rich, attys don’t have to take CLE in NJ? I guess I just assumed all attys had to do it…In any case, I think it’s a great idea
Meant got no help from his players.
If sj was here. He would be preaching on how Holliday did not deliver this postseason. Holliday did NOTHING this postseason. You can argue if the Cardinals didn’t give up THEIR TOP PROSPECT, in Wallace,for Holliday than the series Would be at 2-1 Dodgers. But, the Holliday error costed them this series and that is why they’re off packing their bags for next season.
Raise your hand if you think that Joe Torre should still be the manager of this team.
Losing to Torre in the WS would be as bad as losing to Boston.
Yeah, Torre’s dominance of a pathetic division………and his team nearly blew its huge lead. I’m not too interested in rehashing Torre-gate, but after what he did with the book, good riddance.
JeterJobaCanoFanForever, enough said … If they only used replays for calls in the post season then it changes the game between what is done during the regular season and post season.
If you had better umpiring, this wouldn’t be an topic of discussion. If the umpires rarely made bad calls no one would carp about missing a play here and there.
This is on the commissioners office. They do grade the umpires, but nothing happens to them. The post season is supposed to be denied to umpires who make bad calls continually, yet CB Buckner is calling post season games and blowing two calls in one game.
It wouldn’t be acceptable for people in business to perform that poorly, they would be either demoted or fired. Why doesn’t this apply to the umpires?
I’ve seen better called games in the little leagues than we see regularly in the majors. Its up to MLB to set a standard and require that the umpires meet it.
“What has Torre won since Zimmer left his side?”
Nothing. Since Zimmer left, Torre’s teams have finished in last place.
Ryan Franklin blew that game more than Holliday – the guy stinks. He had multiple chances to close the door and he couldn’t do it. Carpenter also did not pitch well in game 1…….the Cards choked, period.
Vader
October 10th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
GB7…and what has Torre done with out him??? oh yeah blow a 3-0 lead in 2004 and get bounced in the first round every year after.
No running on Wakefield…no bunting on Schilling.
We will have to agree to diagree as like with last nigt and your…rookie pitcher facing two lefties comment.
————————————————————
Really? What left handed batters did Robertson face?
Just got an email from a CARDS fan:
Tony had to be on the sauce,from the way he managed this series! ST Louis hopes he’s gone.I’ve never liked the Drunk!
wow…
The ALDS isn’t over guys.
Pavano has pitched very well against us this yr and Andy can always have a clunker at his age.
Baker in game 4 who has been great down the stretch for them.
Blackburn back in game 5, who pitched a great game against us yesterday.
This thing is far from over. And if this series goes too long, then we can’t set up our rotation for the ALCS.
Plenty of work before we can talk about Torre in the WS.
Will this post season start the constant questions to Pujols about why he can’t hit in the post season like Alex has been constantly questioned?
What worries me is losing to the Dodgers and Torree would be a “PR disaster” for the Yankees. The media will hammer it over and over all winter long and we wont hear the end of it. It will erase any goodwill that Girardi has built up. The negativity of losing is enamormous. I think the “safer” team would be the Phillies who are hated by New Yorkers anyway. Even Mets fans would jump on the Yankee bandwagon because they hate the Phillies so much. Im worried about the “PR ramifications” of facing Torree.
haiku-man,
Have you seen what Red Sox say about Francona? I guess there’s an unsatisfied faction of every fanbase.
“Torre is pure class.”
Yeah, it was real classy of him to discuss Damon’s personal problems in his book.
I was finished with Torre and he was finished the day that he repeated to Giambi and the media about a private conversation he had with Rodriguez in Seattle.
Betsy
A Manager’s job is to get his team to the post season, no matter what “weak” division the team is in. Don’t give Torre any credit. His rings were won in a tough division.
Who cares if Torre won a “pathetic” division. The AL East wasn’t exactly a powerhouse when we won those 4 rings. Didn’t we get in with 87 wins in 2000?
He can’t control which division he is in. He made the playoffs every year in the “mighty AL East” too the last 6 years.
“Plenty of work before we can talk about Torre in the WS.”
Yeah, like LAD getting past either PHI or COL.
TBS is trying desperately to have the Sox get back into this series.
Bay sounds like a beaten man.
So if Torre beats us in the WS this year, it doesn’t count because he didn’t play in a tough division?
lol
Does anyone know why in the world MLB would schedule 3 playoff games on an NFL Sunday? Very questionable decision from a ratings standpoint. NFL regular season games will take MLB to the cleaners tomorrow. They should have scheduled more games on weekdays in my opinion. I know I will only watch the Yankee game because I have football to contend with. And if the Yankees werent playing, baseball would be an afterthought because football is more interesting.
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Montero Fanaticus Primus
October 10th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
RAB just posted the same thing. My thoughts:
I’m for instant replay for fair/foul, home runs and close calls on the bases, but only with a football-style challenge system.
I’d say three challenges, with a failed challenge costing an out (a team on offense would lose an out, ie, 2 outs in the inning, and a team on defense would have to get an extra out).
Yes, I know it’s radical.
That said, what business does MLB have letting dudes like CB Bucknor umpire postseason games, anyway?
————————————————————
that idea would simply destroy the game
terrible idea to charge outs
let the umps call it as they see it & have someone at the park in an office with computers review it like we do on tv & either let it stand or over rule it & send it down to a head set
but only if it is contested
the decision will already be made because it will be being reviewed already
very little time wasted
but to change rules & charge outs or strikes would ruin the game
Torre hated Alex – he loved his core guys, but everyone else was just an interloper……..Batting Alex 8th was so supremely stupid that he should have been fired on the spot. The SI article was a disgrace and what Joe revealed in his book was equally a disgrace.
Pavano has pitched well against the Yankees,and got no decision,he didn’t get the win.Hope the Yankees keep it that way!
Another factor in the replay discussion is that if you think the umps are lazy now, just wait for replay. In the NFL, everybody thought that the refs would get better to keep from being second guessed. However, it has had the opposite effect. The refs seem to make calls with the replay in mind. For example, on a questionable fumble, they are more likely to call it a fumble, because replay can overturn it. If they made the right call, and called it down, it can’t be replayed. And so on.
So, replay is likely to cause the on-field, human officiating to get even worse and deteriorate over time.
Laura,
LOL. He meant plenty of work for New York before they get to the world series.
I think enough time has passed that this is Girardi’s team, and the umbilical cord has been cut. (unless it comes out that Jorge texted Torre this week).
We’ve got starting pitching, a long lineup, and a great bullpen. Oh yeah, homefield advantage.
Anyone else here that can’t wait for tomorrow night when we paste that FOOL Carla outta the playoffs? It can’t come any sooner.
“Batting Alex 8th was so supremely stupid that he should have been fired on the spot.”
Not only was it stupid, it was blatantly vindictive. IMO, Torre never took enough of a beating for that one. I never liked Gary Sheffield as a person, but he was the only one I saw call Torre out for that one.
The last straw with Torre was the midges in CLE in ‘07. He should’ve pulled the team off of the field until the situation was fixed – even he admitted it later.
Losing to Torre in the WS would be bad, but not nearly as much as losing to the Mets – or the Red Sox in the ALCS.
Hi Folks
I just wanted to let you know that I will be the LoHud correspondant who will provide information on the Big G or Springsteen. If you have any questions on either of these two, let me know and I will answer it. I will give daily updates on the status of the Big G or Springsteen as well, sometimes multiple updates a day.
Big G struck out with the bases loaded yesterday, unfortunately. But his team still won, which is all that matters. Expect him to get another pinch hit appearance tomorrow against the righties from the PHI pen. Springsteen will also be at Giants Stadium on Nov 8th. Tickets can be had at Ticketmaster.
So long for now.
“LOL. He meant plenty of work for New York before they get to the world series.”
I know. I was just adding what else needs to happen before we get there.
Ken,
Only 2 were scheduled. One’s a postponed game. Can’t push it back any further.
No steroids, no instant reply.
If you are going to make MLB a technically advanced game beyond minor improvements to the basic equipment of play(bat, ball, glove) in one area then you might as well do it all areas.
Why are steroids illegal? Its not health reasons. Its the “sanctity of the numbers.”
This is because its a human game. Its played by men for all their best and worst. The umpires are part of that game. They are men and they error. We dont care about their great accomplishments because they are not the performers. But they have them. And they have errors.
If you take away this long standing human aspect you invalidate any comparison to the past. And in so doing you might as well invalidate every aspect. Including the players.
Super soldiers playing terminators governed by Hal.
m
I laugh my butt off reading what the only mgr in 86 yrs did for those heathens,and they want him gone.It’s my daily treat to go to nesn and laugh.
What manager hasnt made a few mistakes? Torree was the perfect man for the job. The time was right for him to leave but lets not dismiss what he did here. His handling of the media circus was the best Ive seen in this town in all my years of watching baseball.
is that you pete?
I didn’t have a huge problem with batting A-Rod 8th in 2006… the guy was struggling big time and killing us from the clean-up position.
I think it showed guts to move his best player down in the lineup to give his team a better chance to win. Yeah it was embarrassing, but Torre did what was best for the team.
Joba, fine – give him credit, I don’t care. I don’t care for the guy after what he pulled here. It’s too bad because I loved him for a long time…..oh well. He’s out on the left coast now and I spend almost no time thinking about him. I just want the Yankees to get to the WS – if he gets there with the Dodgers, so be it.
The postgame coverage on TBS is awful. Instead of getting locker room interviews, they are taking questions about the difference between a curve ball and a slider and showing footage of David Wells and Dennis Eckersley. What a disgrace. Raismann better expose this.
They should computerize the strikezone. It’s crap to have umps who can’t see where the pitch finishes, and brings their own ideas to the task calling pitches. What’s the point of a hitter learning the strikezone, or a pither mastering it, for that matter, if the ump is just guessing or worse? It’s easy enough to do, and the ump could still stand back there to run the crew etc. In fact, the he could get a signal then call the pitch. Whatever. But the way it is done now allows for too much human error and manipulation.
Betsy
I get that you hate Torre. But do you give him any credit for the rings he won?
I agree he made bad decisions, but the Yankees could have fired him any time they wanted, after these bad decisions, but didn’t.
“I think it showed guts to move his best player down in the lineup to give his team a better chance to win. Yeah it was embarrassing, but Torre did what was best for the team.”
Really? And how did that work out?
how can anyone in here say they knew torres intentions?
who here is a mind reader.
can you prove he is a vindictive man or was looking to shake alex up?
thank god you are not judges.
Ken,
I think everyone appreciates what he did, be he’s not saint. Was a good manager here, but no god. He did his job which was to win games, and divisions, and championships. How he handled the media circus had little to do with that.
Yes, yes, I know he could handle a clubhouse full of superstars.
I’d say that Girardi’s done a pretty bang-up job of doing that himself.
Remember that their two clubs shared common DNA. Jorge, Jeter, Rivera, and Andy. Sometimes managers are as good as their players.
Who thought giving TBS any coverage was a good idea?
How do the Red Sox get their announcer (Orsillo) to call games, and we get that bonehead Chip Caray?
At least put Singleton or Kay in there.
“I get that you hate Torre. But do you give him any credit for the rings he won?”
Last time I checked, the players play the game. Torre’s impact on the 4 rings is minimal at best.
The home plate umpire can dictate the results of the game and after the NBA officiating scandal a few years ago I always worry about an umpire who is betting on the game for personal reasons or taking bribes. It would be very easy for borderline calls to go “against” the team he has money on. That alone should mandate a computerized strike zone that is sanctioned by MLB.
Just an update on the Big G for those who do not follow him.
With the Rockies, he is hitting .292 with 2 HRs and 11 RBIs. He has a .452 OBP too.. all in 24 ABs.
He has had 2 game winning hits… Sept. 2nd against the Mets and Sept. 5th against the Diamondbacks.
He is a great team player and it isn’t a coincidence that they started playing well when he joined them in September.
Now instead of post game live interviews they have old footage of Cal Ripken at the plate. This is just awful. No comments from Torree yet and only 2 from LaRussa.
Laura, so true.
Forget Torre, though. I have my beefs with Girardi….plenty of them. However, he is a very good guy and he lets the players be themselves. Torre would never be able to deal with free spirits like AJ or Swish. I don’t think that makes him a bad guy and I don’t blame him for his issues with Wells (who I disliked very much), but he was uptight and he didn’t cotton to new Yankees. Joe lets the guys play music, throw pies, bring family into the clubhouse (in fact, Joe has instituted “girl days” or something like that – I think on Wednesdays – where daughters can come in. I think that’s fantastic). A manager is supposed to protect his players – all batting Alex did was embarrass him.
TBS has the worst post season overage I have ever seen.
They make Fox look good.
ken
tbs is the barkley channel.
cutesy humor and nonsequitors plus kenny’s pictures and funny heads on chucky.
are they doing the entire post-season or will be graced with the fox-holes.
Is anyone else getting just a little nervous about these umps constantly apologizing? Anyone think they might ‘give’ a call to the Twins to make up for it?
Torre was a disaster after his “guys” got old, like Paulie, Tino and Bro. He had no interest in managing the new guys and often hung them out to dry. He was also running a little fiefdom with his celeb pals, and he was more interested in that than the team. He didn’t deal with the players much off the field, and stayed on a different floor at the hotels. I think he’s a good hearted phony who let success get to him for awhile.
Robots and lasers.
That Larry King interview with Torre was such a joke… softball question after softball question then at the end of the interview his kids come out in Dodger Jerseys….
Ken,
For a Torre fan, you sure butcher his name, lol.
Did you guys see Kepner’s post on the postseason ratings? Way up from last season. Close to 25% in a couple of cases. That’s what happens when the Yankees are baaaccckkk and you’ve got your major markets (minus Chicago and miami, awww) represented.
Off topic – for those of you who hate Kay, here’s another reason to hate him. During his show earlier this week, he referred to Mike Lupica as “the best columnist in the world”. I guess Kay doesn’t know that Lupica is a Yankee hater.
L,
Kay would be a risky chouce on a national feed. He is too much of a “homer”. I think Singleton would be good because he isnt as biased as Kay is and Flattery really has shown some insight. Despite what Kay says, you know he is a Yankee fan at heart. He grew up a Yankee fan and you cant take the fan out of you. He tries to come across as down the middle, but on a national broadcast I dont think he would be very good.
changes in the way ballparks look these days call for instant replay for home runs…take houstons park for example, its insane. theres no reason to use it for a call like last night. youll slow down an already slow game, then like was said, whats next if we start bringing in more replays? in ten years you will see a world series game where the home plate unpire is having a poor game behind the plate, and people will start to say “we need a machine calling balls and strikes, after all we have replay for home runs, foul balls, plays at the plate, etc already, whats the difference.”
its the same argument many people had for bringing in the wild card 15 years ago…whoever argued that type of change is opening pandoras box is right, because all the talk I heard on the radio the other day was about adding wild card teams
“Last time I checked, the players play the game. Torre’s impact on the 4 rings is minimal at best.”
If Girardi gets 4 rings as a manager will you say the same about him?
What kind of answer was that?
the pressure on torre from himself,ny,the yankees made him incapable of managing that team any longer
he simply was miserable going to the park
the ride was over
Does anyone get the MLB channel ?? Are they showing complete interviews. TBS is only showing snipets of Torree’s press conference. This is ridiculous. I dont want to hear from David Wells on how to throw a curve ball. I want live reaction from the players not these talking heads.
AJ knows that Girardi had his best interests in heart when he made the Molina move and he didn’t do it to cause a stir. That’s why AJ will appreciate it. Joe stuck his neck out on the line if it meant making AJ more comfortable, even if AJ didn’t have a preference. He recognized that AJ and Jose were in a good rhythm and didn’t want to break it up.
You can’t compare that to the A-Rod batting 8th. That was solely to embarrass the guy.
Pukica? I haven’t read him in years…………
Just got another email from a Cards fan:
So in addition to the Yankees,Bawston,Rockies,and Now the Dodgers,these are the list of hated teams.
My reply,What has the Yankees EVER done to the Cardinals?
Keep it up you’re down to 25 teams,soon you can play yourselves!
Padilla has been in the league 10yrs,pitched a gem tonight,Rangers had to let him go.He’s hit 99 players.
I thought Joba was getting a reputation as a a head- hunter,but whoo Padilla has everyone beat.
Lupica fancies himself an expert on politics now.
Back in your hole, lil’ Mikey.
haiku man- ive lived outside of NY. You have to realize the Yankees are despised by most of the country because of a) their immense success and b) a massive payroll. It comes with the territory.
how bad would torre want to beat us?
Ken,
Head over to mlb.com, they archive the post-game podiums there.
Also, espnews will run them throughout the day.
“The SI article was a disgrace and what Joe revealed in his book was equally a disgrace.”
I can not imagine how even ardent supporters of Torre can support these two stupid and vidictive actions of Torre.
Sure he won 4 rings and he deserves lot of credit for it. But it does not give him the right to do the above.
with padilla as Torre’s hit man, watch out!
Kay is a homer… he needs to be objective like Francessa.
To be honest, that is why I listen to Kay’s show, because he is a homer about the Yankees and it’s nice to here. But it’s not going to get him many brownie points nationally.
That was a horrible call by Cuzzi
But even Mauer admits that Kubels grounder might not get through if he was on second
Also even though Marte sucks who knows about the next pitch sequence
Just saying.
What the heck is this nonsense on TBS this is baseball coverage?
FOLKS – TBS is showing haircuts and mustaches on TBS’ postgame. You cant make this stuff up. Somebody ( either Raismann or Mushnick) better take them to task. Selig should be ashamed of the postgame coverage on TBS. By far the worst Ive ever seen.
You pitch differently and have your defense set up differently with a man on second.
Someone tell the press and media they left 17 on base!
Francesa was SHOCKED that the Sox were not in primetime on Sunday and they were scheduled for 12 PM.
TBS=The Basketball Show
Torre did a nice job during the dynasty years but he deserved to be fired. The team was underachieving the last few years under his managing. And he is a fraud he wouldn’t have even made it to the playoffs in 2007 if it wasn’t for A-Rod’s great year. To rip him and talk about private conversations with Damon and put that all in his book shows what kind of person he is.
I take it many of you don’t watch “Inside the NBA” on TNT after Thursday NBA games in the winter… the TBS postgames are all about gimmicks and clowning around. It isn’t a traditional postgame with interviews and analysis. Go to MLB Network for that.
Does it really matter who broadcasts the games? Turn the sound down. I wonder how some people can watch a game at the ballpark without the talking heads.
GreenBeret7
October 10th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
Vader
October 10th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
GB7…and what has Torre done with out him??? oh yeah blow a 3-0 lead in 2004 and get bounced in the first round every year after.
No running on Wakefield…no bunting on Schilling.
We will have to agree to diagree as like with last nigt and your…rookie pitcher facing two lefties comment.
————————————————————
Really? What left handed batters did Robertson face?
He didn’t…that was the point, I would have rather of had Robertosn face them and you didn’t.
GreenBeret7
October 9th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Vader
October 9th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
What has happened to Robertson?
————————————————————
A rookie right hander facing left handed batters? Why?
Torre did an interview trashing A-Rod with Verducci DURING THE SEASON. He revealed private conversations with Giambi and everything.
I don’t remember… did the media even take him to task for that? Or because he was St. Joe, he could get away with it.
No need for nerves.The Yankees keep finding ways to win,when it looks bleak,they come from behind.
Cardinals scored a total of 6 runs the whole series,with Pujols and Holliday on the team.
managers play more of a role in the playoffs & ws where the teams are very even,tons of calls & changes are needed
look at the last game against the twins
Girardi treats all his players the same,
A-Rod is treated the same as Phil Coke
Jeter is treated the same way as Eric Hinske
Posada is treated the same way as Sergio Mitre
etc.
He also left them on the field during the mig attack, which was about the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen a manager do. I’ve often wondered if he already knew he had the Dodger job. It’s clear that they tampered at some point before he walked away.
Twins are absolutely going to get a makeup call tomorrow.
Just hope it doesn’t cost us the game.
Whether its a bang-bang play at the plate or a borderline strike call that ends a threat for us or extends one for them etc. They WILL get a makeup call.
Ken
How well I know,I just get tired of hearing the same vitriol.
Im worried about the PR ramifications of losing to LA in the World Series. Facing the Phillies would be a much safer task. If we lose to Torree the media will hammer it over and over and Girardi will lose his credibility. I think the best thing that could happen is for the Phillies to beat the Dodgers in the NLCS.
Phil,
Yes, the midge attack. We should go back to that game thread and see if any of us were yelling to pull the players off the field.
abda – Your point about changing the IR for the post season only is well taken. However, when post season begins – all statistics start over. Wins, losses, batting averages, ERA’s etc. Everyone is back at ground zero.
So having a new IR in place would allow a team(s)to utilize the challenge process and be prudent with its use.
In addition, the umpires would know that any disputed call can be reviewed. It might make them more accountable.
They already got the strikezone last night. Ask Melky, Swish and Po.
Ramiro Pena reminds me a lot of George Brett
Can easily see some similarities in their game.
“If Girardi gets 4 rings as a manager will you say the same about him?”
Girardi has a lineup that features Jeter, Damon, Tex, Alex, Matsui, Posada and Cano. His pitching staff includes the world’s greatest closer along with CC, AJ and Tex.
So to answer your question – yeah, I will.
torre rose to a position of papalhood in NY where he was Guilianis buddy and surrogate Mayor.
Lost his hunger that’s why he left them on the field for the midges to eat.
Then he complains he’s showed “no respect”, nice try Rodney.
EA October 10th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Twins are absolutely going to get a makeup call tomorrow.
Just hope it doesn’t cost us the game.
Whether its a bang-bang play at the plate or a borderline strike call that ends a threat for us or extends one for them etc. They WILL get a makeup call.
**********
That is what I am so afraid of. And if it happens Joe should be out like a bullet and get tossed.
A make up call won’t matter if we score 7 runs off Pavano.
Pound him, Yankees.
Phil- Joe T lost interest years ago. He started sleeping on the bench and sipping green tea. It angers me to see him constantly standing for Dodger games.
Sea Net- I hope the third time is a charm for the Yankees. I really expect them to knock him all over the yard.
Laura – I want Matsui in pinstripes in 2010! October 10th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Off topic – for those of you who hate Kay, here’s another reason to hate him. During his show earlier this week, he referred to Mike Lupica as “the best columnist in the world”. I guess Kay doesn’t know that Lupica is a Yankee hater.
==========================
OMG yes. It was Friday afternoon. I was driving when I heard that from Kay and I almost crashed my car.
Lupica =
Since I can’t stand that troll Loopey, I switch over to WFAN and it’s Francesa talking w/Kim talking about Jobber to the pen.
It was a NY Sports Radio nightmare.
I do believe that the umps will try and “give one back” to the Twins. The question is will it be on one play or will it manifest itself throughout the entire game in the form of a very liberal strike zone for the 40mil dollar man.
It’s not Girardi who will get bashed as much as the entire Yankees organization all winter.
Girardi has like 30 less managing years than Torre, not fair to compare him to Torre.
Boy though, that will be brutal if we lose to the Dodgers. Would probably be worse than losing to the Sox in the LCS.
Did Jeter get a make up call,when he successfully stole 3rd,and the ump made up a rule,and usurped the MLB rules book?
How many points do the Giants beat the Raiders by?
5? 10? 14? 50?
“It was a NY Sports Radio nightmare.”
Sounds like it. Makes me glad that I was in Chicago.
torre became to old,senile,hollywood for ny
great run but hung on a little to long
Laura- As someone already pointed out they had that strike zone last night. I think you’ll see it come on a play on the bases. Someone in the media should toss it out to Joe just to stick it in his head that it could happen.
“Im worried about the PR ramifications of losing to LA in the World Series. Facing the Phillies would be a much safer task. If we lose to Torree the media will hammer it over and over and Girardi will lose his credibility. I think the best thing that could happen is for the Phillies to beat the Dodgers in the NLCS.”
Every risk has reward too…
If Yanks win it will be hailed.
And Yanks are a better team and they will win a seven game series.
Some will find it difficult to accept, but Girardi will do better than Torre in a head-on series.
Vader
October 10th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
GreenBeret7
October 10th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
Vader
October 10th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
GB7…and what has Torre done with out him??? oh yeah blow a 3-0 lead in 2004 and get bounced in the first round every year after.
No running on Wakefield…no bunting on Schilling.
We will have to agree to diagree as like with last nigt and your…rookie pitcher facing two lefties comment.
————————————————————
Really? What left handed batters did Robertson face?
He didn’t…that was the point, I would have rather of had Robertosn face them and you didn’t.
GreenBeret7
October 9th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Vader
October 9th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
What has happened to Robertson?
————————————————————
A rookie right hander facing left handed batters? Why?
————————————————————
I know exactly what I wrote. I’ll take the lefty/lefty over a rookie right hander against a Mauer and Kubel match-up any time, unless that right hander is the 2007 version of Chamberlain.
Pavano’s last 3 starts -
5.2 IP, 4 ER (short rest)
4.2 IP, 7 ER
6 IP, 4 ER
Not to mention… he can’t really dominate us 3 times in a row can he?
Phil
October 10th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
They already got the strikezone last night. Ask Melky, Swish and Po.
—————————————–
Yeah that strikezone was a joke last night. I mean Joba threw his first pitch to Span and Cabrera almost right down the middle of the plate and both pitches were called balls. Then pitches high and way off the plate were being called strikes. I thought these umpires had a grading system.
mick
October 10th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
torre rose to a position of papalhood in NY where he was Guilianis buddy and surrogate Mayor.
Lost his hunger that’s why he left them on the field for the midges to eat.
Then he complains he’s showed “no respect”, nice try Rodney.
———————————————————
spot on
lost his hunger
too busy looking over his shoulder
What’s wrong with Torre revealing a private conversation he had with Giambi about A-Rod?
Nothing inflammatory was said… Giambi just told A-Rod that he needs to pick it up (the real quote has expletives so I’m paraphrasing).
Verducci wanted to do a story on A-Rod and Torre decided to be a nice guy and help him out and give him some quotes. He would need Verducci in he future to write this book anyway.
Things like that are why Torre is revered in the media and no one says anything bad about him. He always throws them bones.
“Girardi has a lineup that features Jeter, Damon, Tex, Alex, Matsui, Posada and Cano. His pitching staff includes the world’s greatest closer along with CC, AJ and Tex.
So to answer your question – yeah, I will.”
Props to you Laura for being fair and honest.
I WAS a huge fan of instant replay… until I saw what it did to the NFL.
No thanks. The amount of nit picking technicalities that they review make the game unwatchable.
The NHL does it the right way. On Goals only. That’s what MLB has, on home runs only, keep it that way.
I think they could’ve dealt with Torre better. And obviously Torre deserved a better deal than what was offered, so it’s good that he go what he deserved with the Dodgers.
But I wish he hadn’t said some thing like he felt disrespected. I wish that Bowa and Frank Torre hadn’t said some things.
Torre got paid a lot of money, more than some star players, more than most coaching staffs put together. So for him to cry about it when he’s not collecting Yankee dollars anymore was just a petty imo.
He was mad because he was disrespected, but his employers were less than pleased that the desired results had not been achieved. At the very least, we should’ve been able to advance out of the ALDS. Based on the track record in recent years, it’s easy to see why the Yankees were frustrated and were unwilling to sign Torre to a multi-year contract at his old base pay.
I will be rooting for Philly so hard in the NLCS (assuming they make it). I want the Dodgers out of there ASAP. End the Torre-love fest.
I could live losing to Philly in the WS, I couldn’t live losing to Torre.
one thing I could do without is Sager and his cutesy stories and jackets. what shtick, who eats this up? really who are they appealing to? that shtick went out in the 70s.
will they be doing the entire postseason?
Lancde
I assume you are joking, about there being nothing wrong with revealing a private conversation!
he revealed that he twirled his ring when being dressed down, (a nervous habit). among other things.
“Props to you Laura for being fair and honest.”
I was fair and honest, but I for some reason decided to make Tex a pitcher. LOL! I meant to type Pettite. I must have had Tex on my mind.
So does Girardi get a contract extension? (assuming we get to the ALCS)
I figured all he needed to do to get one was get past the 1st round and we are about to do that.
Yankees will beat the Dodgers if they meet in the World Series.
First game of the Series, Yankee fans will cheer Torre and boo Manny during the introductions.
m
why did torre desrve another contract?
that was a pr ploy…of course Levine et al didnt want him back.
They made him an offer they knew he’d refuse.
If he really wanted the job he should have taken whatever they offered to spite them, lol.
“I know exactly what I wrote. I’ll take the lefty/lefty over a rookie right hander against a Mauer and Kubel match-up any time, unless that right hander is the 2007 version of Chamberlain.”
Well that is why I said we will have to agree to disagree, because I would have rather had Robertson instead of Marte.
Have a good night…tomorrow night can’t come soon enough.
left handers batted .189 against robertson.
he was better against lefties
his whip was 1.19 against lefties also
I would rather have Hawk Harrelson call our game than Chip Carrey.
This guy is awful, where did he come from?
“I was fair and honest, but I for some reason decided to make Tex a pitcher. LOL! I meant to type Pettite. I must have had Tex on my mind.”
That’s okay, no one is perfect.
Torre wouldn’t have made the playoffs with last year’s team anyway, so he would have been fired if he accepted the 1 yr deal.
Hell, he might have been managing the Mets in the 2nd half of the season this year.
Girardi was also offered the Dodgers job in 07 before they hired Torre. I’d imagine Girardi would have been in LA and we would have gone with Donnie after 08.
righties batted 2.37 against him
mick,
Nobody deserves their pay cut in half. lol. They should be fired instead. haha.
And I do agree, if he weally, weally wanted to manage the Yankees he should’ve tried to negotiate a better deal rather than turn it down two minutes into the meeting.
But he didn’t really, really want to manage the Yankees imo. The expectations, the infighting with the front office had gotten too much, and it wasn’t worth $5m + incentives in his eyes.
dodgers -yanks will be a made for tv series.
manny, donnie and torre invade NY.
Alex-Manny. Jeter and Torre. Donnie Baseball.
Bring it on.
Not your father’s Yankee -Dodger World Series.
Basically, he didn’t need to fly down to Tampa to give them the decision he had already made. I don’t know if it was for dramatic effect, or to see if the love was still there or what.
But, who else thought Torre was re-signing when we heard he was on his way to Tampa? I did. And he tells us 3 days later when he finally speaks up that he just wanted to look them in the eyes?
Yankees didn’t want Torre and Torre didn’t want to manage the Yankees. It was time to part ways and move on.
lefties only batted .120 against marte
hello
He only went down to Tampa to get more money out of the Dodgers.
why cant i post …4 times and only “hello” gets through?
joe already had a better offer waiting for him from the dodgers
Marte sucks… he almost cost us the game yesterday…..
Put Melancon on the ALCS roster instead…
“Alex is a force; he can put a team on his shoulders by himself,” Pavano said. “I’ve seen that in the time I was there. It was just due time that he was going to put his struggles behind him. He definitely changes the whole dynamic of that lineup. Those guys get on base and he’s a run producer. You can’t get him hurt you, but there’s other guys in the lineup that can hurt you, too. Sometimes, it’s pick your poison with those 3-4-5-6 guys.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/blo.....z0TajKVzvb
i tried posting and i guess certain words are automatic rejects and unpostable. and it wasn’t a swear word or close to one. in fact it was a slang word for LA. a clean one.
“Put Melancon on the ALCS roster instead…”
Why? So we have someone to hit Sox batters when we are up ro down 10 runs?
“I don’t know if Torre is a traitor, but he is an ingrate.
The Yankees turned his career around by giving him tons of talent to win with, ”
You and any fan ripping Torre are the ingrates. Compare the ‘96 team to what Girardi has. Torre never had a 100 million payroll advantage over a playoff opponent from 96-2000. You give him Tex and CC instead of Pavano and Giambalco and he’d do just fine the last few years. Take away CC and Tex, and Girardi probably is not in the playoffs.
Ingrate.
Sucks for Angels fans, they have to wake up at 9 AM on a Sunday to watch their team.
can marte be injured, by a teammate or someone and be replaced by bruney?
So does Girardi get a contract extension? (assuming we get to the ALCS)
I figured all he needed to do to get one was get past the 1st round and we are about to do that.
he should make it to the Series with the team they gave him. and he will, easily.
you can shuffle rosters from series to series right?
Lackey-Weaver-Saunders-Kazmir it won’t be easy. It never is.
With all the talent why is it never easy.
can’t see the roid sox winning till next year(after the opening series with us)…we really did a number on them, almost, not quite a just revenge.
m
did you say your posts were getting eaten by the filter?
Why do we always have to be contentious? Joe Torre was a great Yankee manager. Now he works somewhere else. If the book is a problem, it involves his former players only. But I do know one thing – in ten or fifteen years when they all gather for an Old Timers’ Day or whatever no one will ever even guess that they at one time were at odds. Players have a wonderful way of getting over things quickly – perhaps it’s the nature of the game.
Passionate Yankee fans now seem to dislike Torre very much for writing his book. That said, how can anyone carry an animosity this long?
One could just say, “well, thank you Joe for the exciting games, the WS and the 4 rings. We might see you in a WS sometime. May the best team win.” (And handling a very volitile, fading owner.)
His book is very good with baseball knowledge. And he did say that NOT pulling the team off the field in the midge game was one of his worst decisions he made as a manager.
you can shuffle rosters from series to series.
you can even replace injured players during a series as the twins have just done.
Are the people bashing Torre the same ones that bash Posada?
Contentious?
I only commented on his post-Yankee actions.
“can’t see the roid sox winning till next year”
I guess you weren’t cheering for A-Rod last night, huh? Pot, meet kettle.
LA fans are used to waking up early to watch sports on the East coast. I moved out here 22 years ago, and it’s fun getting up early and getting the games out of the way and still having some day left. Don’t worry about then Angels fans, unless you end up having to listen to them, like I do.
“Are the people bashing Torre the same ones that bash Posada?”
Probably the same ones who all winter trashed Cano, Melky, Hughes, Jeter etc.
steve kline
i meant a ballgame not a series of any kind.
read the rest of my post.
Sometimes, it’s pick your poison with those 3-4-5-6 guys
———————————
I have a feeling that Arod will not get anything to hit tomorrow. It will be off speed pitches off the plate with them hoping that he chases them. They will probably make Matsui and Posada beat them.
“His book is very good with baseball knowledge. And he did say that NOT pulling the team off the field in the midge game was one of his worst decisions he made as a manager.”
Most of those ripping Torre probably never read his book.
“Alex is a force; he can put a team on his shoulders by himself,” Pavano said. “I’ve seen that in the time I was there.”
If he saw it, he must have seen it on TV like the rest of us.
kline
oh okay you got me….very sensitive about the “s” word, i’ll check myself next time…got to be pc
why is la la land an offensive term?
“Probably the same ones who all winter trashed Cano, Melky, Hughes, Jeter etc.”
Nope. I never trashed those guys and I don’t care for Torre. I’m big on loyalty. Throwing your former players under the bus to make a quick buck is not cool IMO. I don’t care what he did or didn’t do on the field. And the fact that he admitted that he should have pulled the team off of the field during the bug game is pretty useless since he didn’t do it when it counted. Who cares that he NOW knows that it was the wrong decision? He’s a day late and a dollar short with that one.
oh i got it thru…just separate the la las
“If he saw it, he must have seen it on TV like the rest of us.”
Good one!
Haven’t read the book myself, but I’m sure Torre and Verducci could’ve written a book on the Torre years without some of the stuff that came out.
There is, after all, more than one way to skin a cat.
“I have a feeling that Arod will not get anything to hit tomorrow.”
That’s okay. There are 8 other guys in the order that can beat the Twins.
But the cleanest way is usually the best way.
Torre, like Casey Stengel before him, stuck around past his expiration date. Truth be told he managed some real special teams and for that he will be regarded as one of the best managers in Yankee history-he’s right up there with Joe McCarthy, Casey Stengel and Billy Martin.
Marte frayed my nerves last night.I hope it was just his nerves,and he’s over it.
Pujols will win the NL MVP,even though being shut down in the division series.
Fans, there is one of the best photos of the Yankees looking up at the home run shot. It is on MLB.com, Bryan’s Hoch’s column. Sorry I can’t transfer it.
They all look like 12 year olds. It is fantastic!
Tom
No Bob Lemon?
Torro October 10th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Good thing Pete is gone… he would have lectured us on how Torre is the greatest and Girardi lies to the media…
************
I was thinking the same thing. I appreciate what Joe did his first few years here. But he became stale and disinterest. His poor managing caused us to lose that series in 2004. After that he gave up mentally.
http://bombersbeat.mlblogs.com.....613631.jpg
I think this is the one he is talking about.
There are 8 other guys in the order that can beat the Twins
————————–
I know… Jeter and Arod are the hottest guys in the lineup right now. Tex stepped up yesterday obviously. Hopefully more guys get hot now.
Bob Lemon did a heck of a job in ‘78 and he made the series in ‘81. I don’t know if he’s on the ‘Mt. Rushmore’ of Yankee Managers though. He did win as many titles as Billy, however.
-Mark
“If he saw it,must have seen it on tv like the .
rest of us.”
Man I’m still laughing,that was some funny stuff!
As for the extension, if the Yankees feel like Girardi’s the best person to nurture the young pitchers and teach the young players, then the answer is….
Oh, who am I kidding. 103 wins, won the division by a LOT. Could go deep in the playoffs. I think so.
Jennifer,
It looks like that picture is where they are actually following the flight of Tex’s helmet toss.
Pete’s Torre post would of been something along the lines of “the great ones always find a way”. Also something along the lines of how stupid the Steins will feel for letting him go if he gets another ring.
100 pitches
don’t you get that pete was a yankee hating new englander. everything he said was as the true redsox fan he was and was designed to piss off his captive audience.
Torre leaving wasn’t so much different from the Bulls and Phil Jackson in ‘98. Neither was fired, but neither was welcomed to stay, either. At least the Steins didn’t also force out Jordan(Jeter) and Pippen(Arod).
Jennifer, thanks for the link to the photo. That is the one and it is now my favorite. P.S. I am female.
mick,
It was obvious. But I have to say the post after Arod hit that walk off home run asking if you can root for a steroid user was the stupidest thing I have EVER seen someone write. It was actually funny…
Why do people keep talking about Torre and his departure? Give it up already. He’s been gone two seasons and he made less money from the Dodgers in 2008 than the Yankees were willing to pay him. This B.S. about disrespect and all that is just soooooooo tired.
I appreciate what he did from 1996 thru the eighth inning of the 2004 ALCS. His last three-plus years were nothing special at all.
I really like a Pettite/Pavano match up.
I was just looking at the matchups for tomorrow, and I was surprised to see that Pavano has 26 decisions this year in 33 starts, which is very high. Especially for a guy who had 18 decisions total in the previous 4 years.
“Why do people keep talking about Torre and his departure?”
Because Girardi hasn’t told us yet when Molina is starting again to set off days of the thrilling “tastes great/less filling” debate.
If the Yanks get past the Twins, whomever they face in the ALCS will not be an easy foe…………but it’s not supposed to be easy. Every potential opponent has strengths…..if the Yankees are good enough, great. If not, then they aren’t deserving champions.
Pavano had two no decisions against us; if that stat is right he had 26 decisions in 31 starts against the rest of the league. Which is a lot. One reason: Indians bullpen was pretty bad so would make sense that Wedge would leave him in.
Just got home after enjoying what another commenter called many “adult beverages”.
I am going to kill all my birds wit this one post-
18 hours and 27 minutes until Game 3!!!!
Good night Yankee people
Tom in N.J.
October 10th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
Bob Lemon did a heck of a job in ‘78 and he made the series in ‘81. I don’t know if he’s on the ‘Mt. Rushmore’ of Yankee Managers though. He did win as many titles as Billy, however.
————————————————————
Bob Lemon pretty much lost interest in everything after the 1978 season when his son was killed in an accident. George Steinbrenner removed him as manager but kept him on the payroll for years. He brought him back as manager in ‘81. He stayed on as GS’s advisor for years.
Why have “human” umpires at all. Just set up a bunch of cameras and sensors throughout the playing field. The game would be a lot better that way, right?
Leave the game alone.
********************************************************************************
I agree, I found myself being more critical of Chuck Meriwhether’s strike calling because of the strike zone graphic on the lower right of the TBS HD telecast. His calls seemed off, but I’d hate to someday have umpires replaced with radar or strike zone lasers.
Some of you who don’t believe in instant replays for plays like that against the Twins would be screaming for some one’s head if that happened to the Yankees and the Yankees lost.
keep things the way they are now regarding replays.
add automated strike zone calling. it’s absurd that there’s a diagram on the screen showing us when the plate umpire is right or wrong. the technology is there, use it!
how do you review that botched foul call anyway? he called it foul and everyone stopped running/fielding…