Ignoring the book
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Oct 20, 2009 
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It got lost in the shuffle a bit last night because of how the game ended (and because of several other more costly managerial decisions), but watching Mike Scioscia intentionally walk Alex Rodriguez with two outs and the bases empty in the ninth inning was remarkable for two reasons:
1. It’s almost unheard of for a manager to willingly put the go-ahead run on base.
2. Despite that, it absolutely seemed like the correct decision.
Can you imagine other closers doing that? Could imagine Mariano being asked to do it? But Scioscia saw that the Yankees had a weak hitter behind Rodriguez (it ended up being Jerry Hairston as a pinch-hitter) and knew just how much damage A-Rod had done, so he had Brian Fuentes put him on. Fuentes then struck out Hairston to end the inning.
“I can just think of Barry Bonds,” Scioscia said when asked for any precedent on making such a decision. “That’s the only time I think I can remember doing anything like that, or we can remember doing anything like that. … The ball was carrying pretty well, and Alex can backspin some pitches like nobody’s business, and we just wanted to take our chances.”
Obviously it worked out. Near the end of his interview, Rodriguez was asked if he’d often been walked with two out and nobody on. “Often?” he said. “Never.”
I think Pujols was walked a few times with nobody on..
This clearly was not happening in those 2004-2007 playoff series. Thank God we have New-Rod this postseason. Guy is totally locked in. Even when he makes an out, he is getting good swings (that rocket he hit off Jepsen to 3rd that would have been a double had Figgins been off the line). Scary good right now, hopefully he keeps it up.
and if Tex doesn’t break out of his slump, Arod will keep getting walked…
I wonder if this will be the strategy for an entire game? I would think only in circumstances where Matsui or Posada are no longer in the lineup behind ARod. If Tex would get on, it would help. (But I am loathe to criticize the man who has personally saved at least a dozen runs with his glove so far this post-season.)
“There were so many changes,” Angels center fielder Torii Hunter soon crowed, “I thought it was a spring training game.”
Just another reason to jam it down their throats tonight. Stay classy as ever Torii. (I can’t imagine any Yankee player making the same comment if Scoscia had made the same number of changes.)
I’d like to know how successful/unsuccessful pinch running is. It seems to me like it works less than we (and some managers) think it does. I’m not killing Girardi for running for Matsui in the 8th but it did take the bat out of Arod’s hands and even if they go ahead and walk Arod anyone Matsui is far more dangerous than anyone else on the Yankee bench. I guess I’m just curious whether pinch running really works enough for it to be used as often as the Yankees do it. I know us fans continually replay the Dave Roberts steal in our heads but does that really happen with regularity? Something tells me it doesn’t. Or maybe I’m just having a selective memory about how pinch running has worked for the Yankees in the past and particularly this year.
We are going to need the other guys to step up because Arod is not going to get anything meaty to hit at this point.
With 2 outs, it’s not a big deal. But when you start putting guys on when it moves a guy into scoring position or the IBB loads the bases, it doesn’t usually end well. This was not an earth-shattering move.
What is Sam’s email?
I cannot believe the posts by someone called “Imback” referencing Betsy.
I will be astonished if that poster is ever allowed to come on here, again.
Betsy criticized Girardi for in-game choices he made.
In referencing Betsy’s post, “Imback” attacked her based on her gender.
If those attacks had been based on race or ethnicity, that poster would never see the light of day here, and deservedly so.
He/she should never be allowed to post here again, because it was heinous, and not even the first time.
I never want to see that username here again.
Doreen-I feel the same way about criticizing Tex. He’s been awesome defensiviely, but I really wish his bat would get going!
This is going to happen time and again now…..the Yankees can not win with a two man lineup…..and now they are sick? Fantastic……
I’m sorry, but I have lost some faith in Joe. He got the team to 103 wins mostly because it’s a very talented club. The reason why I have lost some faith in him is because I actually have to worry now what he’s going to do in any particular game. How sad is that? I don’t trust him to make the right moves with the lineup or the pen…..
I think pinch running for matsui with no power threat from the bench is pretty dangerous…Hinske (though not great) could atleast put some second thoughts in the manager’s minds.. Gardner, molina, guzman, Cisco, Hairston jr are not going to really bother any manager.. I think if Matsui is hitting behind A-rod, he has to stay in the game..
trisha,
People love to talk about Torii being a good guy, but I can’t stand his green-eyed butt. And no, his eyes aren’t green. But every time the Yankees played his Twins, we knew we would hear some ah-shucks comments about the Yankees payroll. And I thought it would end after he signed his own big contract? Nope, he made some kind of silly comment last week, too.
Bodh, I didn’t even bother reading his posts once I saw that he was personally attacking me……if he did say anything based on gender, I agree with you. I have already emailed Sam about one other obsessive poster…
Doreen-
bring on the chili, it worked its magic last time
I thought the move to walk Alex was brilliant and the right move to make in that situation. Two out and a weak hitter coming up? Absolutely, which is where pinch running for Matsui gave Scoscia the option to walk him.
I remember Puljols being walked during the season with bases loaded. I think the other team had the lead so and even the walk in run didn’t tie up the game, but that ended up being the only run in from that move.
If Alex still had Matsui and Posada behind him he wouldn’t have been walked.
I recall a game when Showalter (managing the D Backs) walked Bonds intentionally with the bases loaded & gave up a run to not have to face him. I believe the D Backs won the game.
Man, I cant wait for the Yankees to win tonight so we can all stop this crazy talk.
There were many mistakes yesterday and second guessing is what makes basebll so much fun to watch. Her eare my thoughts on yesterdays good and bad:
1- Cano is killing us as he needs to move the runners over or get 1 big hit when given 2 chances with runners on 1st and 2nd and nobody out.
2- Swisher is killing us as he needs to get at least 1 run in when hitting twice with man on 3rd and less than 2 outs. Stop swinging at all those breaking balls in the dirt would ya.
3- I thought Girardi should have taken Pettite out instead of letting him pitch to Vlade. At the very least throw him high fastballs, change ups low and away or cutters down and in the dirt. A walk wouldn’t have killed him there. You could see Vlade had more confidence in his next at bat as he hadn’t hit a HR in a Month. Did we now wake a sleeping giant? Joba would have been the move there and let him start the 7th and then Hughes and Mo for 8 and 9 with a 3 run lead. But if he took out Andy he would have made a big stink and I’m sure Girardi was considering it.
4- Why take out D rob? He was lights out and he keeps the ball down. I thought Kendrick had as good a chance of hitting a HR off of Aceves as he did D Rob.
5- Someone needs to tell Tex that the Apriol portion of the post season is over now. Great defense though.
6- Our bullpen was not taxed and should be good for today with a day off tomorrow.
7- CC needs to earn his 23 mm again today
Betsy,
What is Sam’s email? Is it just Sborden@lohud.com?
No way you – or any of the women who post here – needs to put up with that blatant, sexist abuse.
Ronan Tynan isn’t allowed to sing at Yankee Stadium – and Imback should not be allowed to post here.
For those who dislike Torre, you willl LOVE this Yahoo coumn. For those who do, cover your eyes
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns
8 hours and 39 minutes until Game 4!!!!!!
Look for CC to right the ship tonight and the Angels lose in 5. Lackey will get smacked whackey on Thursday.
Betsy,
You asked what got me all riled up? I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but I hope I don’t offend Erica (how crazy is that?)
Here’s the quote Chad put up last night. It’s fine, until the highlighted part.
“You have to put yourself in a situation where if the ball is hit directly at the left fielder, you maybe give yourself a better chance,” Damon said. “Jerry does have a better arm than I do, so I can’t disagree with that. Unfortunately it didn’t come to him and he did not make a play, and unfortunately we lose my bat the next inning.”
What he says is true. SJ will come on and say that Damon’s a winner and a leader and has the cachet to say such things. True. But it’s uncool to second guess the manager like that. Especially when the manager stood by him when he struggled, needed personal time, and had difficulties fielding.
I know that Damon was frustrated, everyone was. But everyone managed to hold their tongue, but I guess Damon gets a pass because he has trouble speaking in public.
Blackaccord, I agree to a point. I think for series Guzman was the right choice, but its when to use him.
I think the caught stealing last night was meant to be a hit and run that the pitchout ruined. Trouble is Girardi should have expected it given the 0-1 count. Everyone knows that Gardner is put in to attempt a steal.
mel, he is a green-eyed horse’s backside.
Betsy, this is Joe’s first postseason. He’s doing the best he can and hopefully he will learn from any mistakes he might make.
I’m hoping that if there is any complacency on the team that came from going 5-0, last night’s loss will cause a little more focus. The Yankees seem to know how to respond when their backs are against the wall. I don’t think they want to lose another game.
“If Alex still had Matsui and Posada behind him he wouldn’t have been walked.”
Fuentes was asked and he said they would have. Alex’s fly to the warning track after the HR took the bat out of his hand more than who was behind him in the line-up.
Surprised to see the blog didn’t self destruct last night.
Abda…., regarding spitter: Perry used to use Vaseline. He’d hide it on the back of his neck, behind his ears, forehead and on his wrist. His pre-pitch ritual would include tugging and touching to keep hitters (and umps) guessing as to whether or not he was doctoring the ball and where he was getting the stuff from. He used a throat lozenge called “Slippery Elm” to make his spit slippery. He’d lick his fingers off the mound and pretend to wipe them off on his shirt. He claimed he didn’t throw it as much as people thought, but just putting the idea in the hitters’ heads gave him an advantage and drove some of them, Murcer in particular, nuts.
I call Hunter Schilling-lite. Never met a red light on a camera he didn’t like and plays too much the audience when he finds one.
m, what Damon said is absolutely correct though. He gave both the good of making that move and the bad. I don’t see anything wrong with him saying it, and its a heck of a lot milder than Girardi is getting from just about everyone for the moves he made last night.
YankeeRay,
You might say letting Pettitte try to finish off Guerrero isn’t so out of line – I know he is an older pitcher who is a lefty and was maybe a little winded, so why not bring in a fresh, young power right-hander. But you could argue that Andy just made a mistake – aided, perhaps, by the fact that he had begun to tire. Still, that’s not an open-and-shut case.
The Robertson thing…..I woke up shaking my head.
I believe Mike Axisa at River Ave Blues had it pegged. He said something like: “Girardi makes baseball way more complicated than it needs to be,” or something like that.
I expect us to bounce back today and win, but there’s no sugar-coating a baldly, bad move like that.
Does anybody want to guess what stats book Girardi was reading before he took Robertson out?????? I know…… How to blow a game in 5 seconds. It’s a NYT best sellers.
“For those who dislike Torre, you willl LOVE this Yahoo coumn. For those who do, cover your eyes
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne…..;type=lgns”
Thanks. That was begging to be written for a long time.
“For those who dislike Torre, you willl LOVE this Yahoo coumn. For those who do, cover your eyes
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne…..;type=lgns”
Thanks. That was begging to be written for a long time.
Mariano was asked to do it early this year to Longoria
m-
Its cool. I am not offended. Johnny was however, voicing my thoughts. I do not have access to national media
Abda,
I acknowledged what he said was correct. But Johnny needs to worry about himself, not the manager or the other players (no, I haven’t forgotten).
Uncle E-
It was not too far off. Really ugliness going
Damon just says what he thinks – he’s not calculating enough to try and stick it to Joe.
He’s never been especially political – just says what pops into his head.
Players have their opinions – they’re not robots. I have no problem with the comment, and if Girardi means what he says about wanting his guys to WANT to be out there, well, I see nothing wrong with Damon publicly mourning the loss of his own bat.
Since Hairston got the winning hit the game before, maybe Johnny shouldn’t have been worried about his bat missing from the lineup. After all he hadn’t been doing much at all with the bat.
THAT said, I found it curious that he was taken out purely because he had been making some of the best plays in the field!
Reposting
Mo sure looks like a kid about to put his hand in the cookie jar right before he hocks that loogie.
Still, how many pitches do you think a “spitball” lasts for.
Don’t you have to keep spitting on it?
What’s the average life of a MLB baseball? How many pitches?
If all it took was a little spit to make Mariano’s ball move like it does I would think there’s a whole generation of secret spitballers coming soon.
Scosia walking Arod reminds me of that scene in ” The Bad News Bears” with Walter Matthau yelling at Vic Morrow “You don’t put the winning run on 1st! “
Not sure the link would work here because of where it’s from….n.o.m.a.a.s.org
Not defending just reporting…..but this seems to be the most logical explanation for Aceves over Robinson.
“Aceves throws everything but the kitchen sink (only 43% of his pitches are fastballs), whereas Robertson primarily throws a fastball (76% of total pitches) and Howie Kendrick sits dead red, being 9.4 runs above average against fastballs in 2009.”
The best comment ever came last night lol…
Can we have a video at Yankee stadium of a truck running over the rally monkey? I would loooooooooove to see that wouldn’t you guys????
I just hope Joe Giradi calms down..Lose Aceves number and rely on Robertson and Mo and phil hughes..taking out robertson was one of the most confusing moves I have ever seen.
I used to like Torii Hunter. I’m not sure why – he just seemed to be an okay guy who played a really good CF.
However, I never had the opportunity to hear from him SO DARN MUCH!
He is aggravating to say the least. Snide comments not appreciated. Definitely not appreciated.
m -
Damon could have definitely left the last phrase out of his response, but perhaps it was just a statement and not a condemnation, necessarily? Still, knowing how every word is parsed, you’d think they’d measure their words more carefully.
Which, is what I think Torii Hunter DOES do. I think he knows exactly what he’s saying and exactly what message he sends. Look, he wants the Angels to be seen as undefeatable, unshaken and the team of “destiny.” I suppose that’s his “right.” But the spring training reference? That’s just very low. And didn’t he say something the other day, too?
Plus he also called out his own team with his little schpiel about how he “knew” as soon as the ball left Fuentes hand that Fuentes had made a mistake. but it’s okay, because Torii’s “one of the nicest guys in baseball.” Hmmm…
I better stop. My blood’s beginning to boil.
Scosia walking Arod reminds me of that scene in ” The Bad News Bears” with Walter Matthau yelling at Vic Morrow “You don’t put the winning run on 1st!
I was thinking the same thing..Vic Morrow responds, “My firstbasemen is lonely.”
poor vic morrow, didn’t he get killed during the filming of the Twighlight Zone Movie?
IMBACK
I went back to read what IMBACK said in his post about Betsy in a prior thread:
… bipolar, menopausal, ms. Lonely hearts blogger…
There should be a Blog rule in place to rid the Blog of this type.
I know the world is made up of both sides but must we deal with someone who is that far to the edge of the Bell curve?
I vote that Sam should develop a “2 strikes” warning system or perhaps, an immediate Ban system.
IMBACK would be included in either.
trisha,
He was taken out because of his arm, not his glove.
But anyway, this game was lost many times before the ill-fated double to mathis.
So, I’m not going to worry about it.
I’ve been biting my tongue, but I said last night that I was surprised that Joba is in the circle of trust when he really hadn’t proved that he’s got his stuff back.
I also linked a horrible column by Vescey saying that the Yankees ruined Joba.
They also said that Kendrick had batted .500 against Robertson so Joe didn’t want to take any chances because of that also. I thought that sounded pretty logical.
the amount of pitching changes was silly though..whatever Torri Hunter says..it was just strange….Also did people have a problem with Damon being taken out. I know he has the worst arm in baseball…but did anyone think that really made that much of a difference. Does Jerry H have that great of an arm that we not only lose Damon’s bat, but have the pitcher hitting in the line-up
NYYROC, I know Perry used that. There was another pitcher who used spit though. He used a particular type of chewing gum as it was sticky enough to stay on the ball, yet could be wiped off easily enough. He had even been questioned by a second base umpire during a game (either the last deciding game of the season, or in the WS, I forget which) and he threw the ball to the second baseman, who in turn threw it around the diamond so they could wipe the ball off. I think it might have been Preacher Roe. The article was something titled How I made money off the outlawed pitch, or something close to that.
I think I recall Whitey Ford using what he called a gunk ball as well.
“They also said that Kendrick had batted .500 against Robertson so Joe didn’t want to take any chances because of that also.”
He is 1-2 lifetime against robertson..not really a big body of work…
“He was taken out because of his arm, not his glove.”
Ah.
“But anyway, this game was lost many times before the ill-fated double to mathis.”
Very true.
I think Girardi made a rookie mgr mistake with his micro-managing last night. I know he believes in himself but I think he’s smart enough to learn from it. I hope we see a better Girardi tonight.
“vinny-b (thankful to have Girardi in charge)
October 20th, 2009 at 11:09 am
and if Tex doesn’t break out of his slump, Arod will keep getting walked…”
That is very true. I was looking at the offensive numbers from this series–and although they have gotten a lot of heat, it’s amazing just how bad Tex, Swisher, and Melky have been. Consider this:
6-36, .167 BA
0 Extra Base Hits
0 RBI
14 K’s
Their counterparts on the pitching side–Aceves and Joba–have combined to give up 6 hits, 2 BB’s, and 3 ER while pitching 2 innings. In the other 30 innings, the staff has only allowed 6 ER. Pretty brutal stuff given the importance of every AB and IP at this level.
Kendrick never faced Aceves, but that’s not enough for me.
Kendrick is a contact hitter. And hits it hard. Aceves is a contact pitcher. I was in the car with my daughter and she can attest to me waving my hands (yes I was driving) and asking “why, why, why?” lift Robertson?
“Since Hairston got the winning hit the game before, maybe Johnny shouldn’t have been worried about his bat missing from the lineup. After all he hadn’t been doing much at all with the bat.”
Johnny hit a home run in the game and is 5 for his last 16 in the ALCS. He’s also had a career of success in the postseason. Jerry Hairston getting one hit does not change the fact that Damon is by far a better offensive player. His comments were not out of bounds, as he is not ripping Girardi, just lamenting how the game broke down, causing the team to lose the DH and 1-2 valuable bats in extra innings.
What matters tonight is if there is any change in the Batting order or the approach by the hitters. I think Joe would have to brain dead to not have had a sit down with Cano, Melky and Swisher and even Tex to some extent about waiting for a good pitch and not playing the A’s game with two strikes.
I couldn’t find any comments from any of those three or even a comment from Andy on what happened with the 2 strike pitch to Vaid. Anybody see anything?
Trisha
Too small a smaple size to go there- 1 for 2 .500 BAA
Bronx Jeers, Mo didn’t look any different than he always does on the mound. I don’t buy it that he used a spitball, plus, the movement is all wrong for it to be a spitball. The angle of the picture is what gives lie to what happened.
Its bogus.
“He was taken out because of his arm, not his glove.”
*****
I think that argument is irrelevant. At that point in the game any ball hit to left field would have been game over anyway.
Also, Damon was playing shallow left field- he could have made a good through from there
I am also not unconvinced Johnny’s speed could have caught that ball that ultimately cost them the game
All –
We’re up 2-1 with our ace on the hill against arguably, a lefty who has a tendency to lose the strike zone.
CC will be turning around some of their better LH bats.
Most of our lineup is due.
Our bullpen is not overly taxed.
I think everyone here would have taken this scenario when the ALCS started.
Keep the faith.
Look I’m sorry too that we didn’t win the game but if Andy doesn’t serve up the bad pitch we’re up by two runs and if the offense doesn’t leave 10 players in scoring position we get more runs.
I hate extra inning games as a rule, but I especially hate them when the Yanks are on the road. As mel said, the game was lost many times over before Mathis got the winning hit.
It’s easy to blame Girardi for taking out Robinson but it isn’t like the Yankees had the game in the bag until then.
If I know the Yankees, tonight will be redemption time. I’m just grateful that the game is going to make it back to the Stadium if we don’t take the next two.
Yanks were up 2 game to 0….Giradi seemed like he was managing down 2 games to 0..It was just strange..
Let’s say robertson gives up a walk-off homer to Kendrick..would anyone in their right mind say, Joe should have brought in Aceves…Or who in thier right mind was thinking after robertson got two quick outs..It is time for aceves? Just really bizarre move
I say todays game is a slugfest. CC will give up a lot of runs Yanks win 14 to 8
“poor vic morrow, didn’t he get killed during the filming of the Twighlight Zone Movie?”
I believe he was decapitated during a helicopter crash.
And I really hate it when they do a remake of a perfectly excellent movie like Bad News Bears. I like Billy Bob but he’s got half the acting chops of Walter Matthau.
Johnny or no Johnny, there is no saying the Yankees were winning the game no matter what happened with Mathis. Last bats in extra innings generally favors the home team.
“I think that argument is irrelevant. At that point in the game any ball hit to left field would have been game over anyway.”
Agree Erica…well said..that move made no sense….
All –
We’re up 2-1 with our ace on the hill against arguably, a lefty who has a tendency to lose the strike zone.
CC will be turning around some of their better LH bats.
Most of our lineup is due.
Our bullpen is not overly taxed.
I think everyone here would have taken this scenario when the ALCS started.
Keep the faith.
———————————————————-
I will agree with you… BUT…. The point here is the way it happened, I can guarantee you if Robertson had lost the game himself, everyone will be underplaying as just one loss and we will all be positive… Again it’s the wat it happened.
Erica,
Nobody would’ve caught that ball, they would had to have climbed the wall before the ball got there.
I wondered out loud if the Yankees were playing “no doubles” defense on that play?
yes…a remake of the bad news bears was a bad idea/..
Hunter may or may not be a nice guy, I wouldn’t know, but he is arrogant. Funny how he doesn’t get slammed like Alex gets pummeled for the things he says.
# trisha – OPPC lifetime member and a true believer in baseball karma October 20th, 2009 at 11:40 am
“He was taken out because of his arm, not his glove.”
Ah.
“But anyway, this game was lost many times before the ill-fated double to mathis.”
Very true.
Trisha I Agree, I’m trying to move on, Just hope Joe keeps a balance between the knee jerk and being too aware of making a decision that may be second guessed. I think he knows he screwed up. I just hope we aren’t going to have to add this game to the chamber of horror of Yanks failures in the 90′s.
“Too small a smaple size to go there- 1 for 2 .500 BAA”
If you couple that with the information you have about Kendrick and fast ball hitting, maybe it was enough to tip the balance.
“–Yes, Mark Teixeira was awesome defensively, particularly in the 10th, but can we please correct one flawed impression out there? We keep comparing Teixeira to Jason Giambi, as if Giambi regularly played first base for the past seven years. But that wasn’t the case.
From 2002 through 2007, the Yankees played 45 postseason games. Do you know how many of those games Giambi started at first base? Ten. The others were started by Nick Johnson (16), John Olerud (seven), Tony Clark (four), Gary Sheffield (three), Doug Mientkiewicz (three) and Tino Martinez (two).
So for all of the talk about how much better a postseason team the Yankees are with Teixeira at first, keep in mind that, most of the time during Giambi’s reign, the Yankees realized what a defensive liability Giambi was (in 2004, Giambi wasn’t on the team’s postseason roster). And given how Teixeira has hit so far in the postseason, it’s not like he’s giving them All-Star production on both sides of the ball.
Just sayin’.”
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....red+Weaver
I think Tori Hunter is talented but extemely over rated. He criticized Fuentes the other day and Hunter has done nothing out of the 3 hole. Thankfully Yanks didnt sign him.
Girardi made a lot of mistakes the last 8 games, but since the Yanks won you cannot second guess. Remember, Girardi is playing with much more talent, and therefore he can at times get away with mistakes. His replacing of Matsui killed any protection Arod had. Replacing Damon was a mistake as well. While Hairston may have a better arm its probably not much of a difference to lose Damons bat in a game when runs are at a premium. Aceves was the odd man out for most of the series, and Sooner or later Girardi will get himself in a position where its the 12 or 13th inning and the only one he has left is Guadin and Guadin is not even an average national league pitcher, let alone an average AL pitcher. Girardi also handcuffed himself for tonight, if CC isnt as strong on short rest by probably not having full availability of the bullpen. I thought after 6 quality innings from Petittie he should have brought in Aceves or Joba for the 7th, then use his comfort of Hughes and Mo. He ended up removing two key bats Damon and Matsui, both who are clutch and both who can hit it out at any time. Gardener?? why run with an 0-1 count? I realize Posada is a double play at times but he should have ran him in a count that was not favorable to a pitch out. Angels know Gardener is pinch running in order to steal a base. Giradri made similar blunders in other games, but since the Yankees won, nobody will bring it up. Hopefully he will realize he does have the better team, and more talent and when managing the “better talent” less is more. He is not managing the Florida Marlins anymore.
Erica,
I agree with you. I’m also not convinced that Damon doesn’t make that catch.
I made a comment during the game last night that whoever has been positioning Damon in the OF (whether it’s coaches or Johnny reading scouting reports) is spot on.
He’s been in the right spot to make almost every play and frankly I don’t remember a moment in this series where he’s hurt us defensively.
I think Girardi got a little bit in love with the fact that he won 5 straight in the post season.
It’s like a gambler on a hot streak who thinks it’s him affecting the game and anything he does will work.
He overmanaged the whole night. From the constant mound visits to the pitching changes.
That said, if Swisher, Cano and Melky (and Tex) don’t show up, we’re back to last season’s offense again and as we know that offense didn’t win a lot of games.
They should try hypnosis or something with Cano. I just can’t understand for the life of me why he can’t hit with RISP.
What is he afraid of, winning? I know everyone will say they are trying too hard and don’t want to fail, but enough is enough. The guy is good enough with runners not on base to be one of the best hitting 2b in the game. Fix your approach already.
And the 3rd catcher really did hurt us last night. It would have been nice to have Hinkse in there for an at bat or to replace Swisher who was atrocious.
it would have been difficult to win that game in extra innings..and a lot went wrong…
Swisher’s bat killed the yanks
Joba killed the yanks…
the pitch to Vlad killed the yanks…
but the ROBERTSON move was just bizarre..let him finish and then maybe go to aceves in the next inning if you do not want to overtax robertson…no one would have second guessed that if say in the next inning aceves or gaudin comes in and gives up a run..you would say darn we lost..we blew too many chances….however because of the robertson move..Giradi looks lost.
I am also not unconvinced Johnny’s speed could have caught that ball that ultimately cost them the game
I think it was in a place where no one could get it, further to Left and it was out, further to center and perhaps Melky gets it. Wrong place wrong time I guess.
Trisha, I agree to a point, but if the Yankees had not made those changes and they could have gotten a run in, then the Angels would have to score two to win.
anyway robertson should have joba’s role in the 7th..hughes in the 8th. and mo in the 9th…those three would be tough to beat….
no sure anyone could have caught that ball. It was a missle..it almost knocked the leftfield wall down…I would have to see it again…but from memory no one catches that one…you think???
“Face it folks, Pete is not who we thought he was. Everyone should have known this the moment he announced his job change. You don’t just go from the Yankees to the Red Sox, right before the play-offs no less, without being a real low life. The worst was when he said he was never a Yankees fan, just a sports reporter. I’m guessing he really is a Red Sox fan. And now he takes pot shots at the Yankees on Twitter. Can anyone remember him posting embarrassing pics of Red Sox players? Ever?”
This comment from the last thread makes me laugh…how many regulars here honestly had no idea Pete was a closet Sox fan? He openly mentioned the fact that he was from the Boston area and money + a chance to be close to home were the motivation he needed to make the move…it had nothing to do with the Yankees or Red Sox. I’m still glad for having Pete while we did and feel bad for him as far as blog traffic is concerned, but I would imagine that more money and closer to home are outweighing the lack of comments.
It’s easy to blame Girardi for taking out Robinson but it isn’t like the Yankees had the game in the bag until then.
===
Sure, it’s easy – it was a terrible move.
There was no guarantee of anything; once you’re in extras on the road, you’re living dangerously. But that’s different than the manager giving the game away.
anyway tonight is a massive game..You would hate to lost 2 straight and then have to put tons of pressure on AJ Burnett…YIKES
and one more thing from me, first of all I really enjoy reading everyones posts, some of the things I read here I never thought of and its great stuff. Giradi did the same thing by burning Hughes, Joba Coke, Marte on one or two batters ealrier in this series and in Minnesota. We are only pointing it out because of last nights loss, had they won again last night Girardi might not be criticized
The key is locating the fastball when you throw it to Angels’ hitters. They kill mistake fastballs. However, when our pitchers get ahead of them with well-spotted heat, they are extremely susceptible to offspeed stuff late in the count. Kendrick is a fastball hitter all the way, and it kills me that nobody put a fastball so far in on him that he had to jump out of the way. The guy dives out over the plate looking to get a jump on the fastball.
Bronx Jeers, Mo didn’t look any different than he always does on the mound. I don’t buy it that he used a spitball, plus, the movement is all wrong for it to be a spitball. The angle of the picture is what gives lie to what happened.
Its bogus.
————————————————————–
Mo’s my favorite ballplayer and I have absolutely no doubt in his talent.
I won’t pretend to be an expert on foreign substances and the like and their effects on a pitched baseball.
Maybe somebody else can offer something substantial.
Enough Pitching Changes October 20th, 2009 at 11:53 am
no sure anyone could have caught that ball. It was a missle..it almost knocked the leftfield wall down…I would have to see it again…but from memory no one catches that one…you think???
I agree it would have to be a miracle catch when you consider the speed they were running, closeness to the wall and it was right up the gap.
All season long they have depended on the HR to score.
They seldom put 3 or 4 hits together & get a rally going. Our hitting with RISP has been poor all season.
Since the team has so much talent & the pitching has been so good, we have been winning in spite of our deficiencies with RISP.
However, it could all come crashing down if Tex & the bottom of our lineup do not step up.
Swisher left a runner at 3rd base with less than 2 outs in the 2nd & 4th innings, thats inexcusable. Cano continues his season long slump with RISP, & Melky is regressing again at the plate. With Tex not hitting there are too many holes in the lineup to get rallies going.
Hope the pitching can carry us.
This game was not lost by Aceves.
Learn to accept that and you’ll understand what this team needs to do to win 2 of the next 3 or 4…hit when it counts.
Everyone else (defense, pitching) has done their job. (exception: Joba)
Yesterday’s game should’ve been won 5-3.
We all need to CALM DOWN. we lost the battle not the war!. Like they say in soccer . .WE PLAY ON !
Abdababdaserser, geeze it’s tough to know. Those moves were made in extras. The Yankees unfortunately lived by the long ball last night, and all unfortunately without runners on base. Lots of things “conspired” last night to give the Angels the win. No way to know what would have happened if Gardner hadn’t been caught stealing but a home run came right after that. We were down by a run in the 7th and a lone homer is all that got us back in it.
I truly think that maybe the Yankees got a little confident going 5-0 and their play may have been a little lacklustre because of it. I think it’s easy to lose a little focus and as easy to get it back when you sober up losing a game in the enemy’s territory – and know that your next two are being played there.
I fully expect the Yankees to come out and win tonight.
I’ve been silent mostly during these playoffs.
Trying to enjoy the games and staying away from posting comments….. BUT…..
I will say this once and I’m sure its been said many time before. Girardi is managing tight, over-managing to the extreme. This was my biggest fear. Basically this team is so good they were able to overcome Girardi’s moronic moves so far in these playoffs.
My biggest fear and virtually the only way I think the Yankees get eliminated is Girardi making retarded moves. He’s just really making me nervous.
Forget his quick hooks, burning through relievers, etc. He feels he needs to have his hands on every at bat and every move in the game. He’s managing tight and its scaring the crap out of me.
Let Marte face one lefty then bring in Coke for the next batter to face another lefty? Why, was Abreu 0-2 vs. Coke and 1-2 vs. Marte?
Forget your stupid limited sample sizes regarding matchups. Forget your dumb scouting reports.
When Robertson is throwing lights out you don’t remove him after 10 pitches. Especially when you only have ONE guy left in the pen.
Chill out Girardi. Please. Or you’re going to cost this team a chance at a ring.
Sure, it’s easy – it was a terrible move.
There was no guarantee of anything; once you’re in extras on the road, you’re living dangerously. But that’s different than the manager giving the game away.
AGree..it would have been hard to win that game for the yanks..HOWEVER..why make it easier for the angels…if I was a hitter I would be happy that robertson was out..he seemed tough to me..Forget the numbers rely on what your eyes tell you. Robertson’s got really good stuff..really good…
“This game was not lost by Aceves.
Learn to accept that and you’ll understand what this team needs to do to win 2 of the next 3 or 4…hit when it counts.
Everyone else (defense, pitching) has done their job. (exception: Joba)
Yesterday’s game should’ve been won 5-3.”
I absolutely agree.
M,
Didn’t seem like Damon was second-guessing Girardi. To me it sounded like he supported the move, do to his weak arm, and just thought it was unfortunate that it didn’t work out.
That said, I do think Joe is going a bit overboard with the chess-like maneuvers. Obviously, the team not hitting with RISP is what lost them the game, but the over-thinking by Joe didn’t help.
It crossed my mind (and my husband’s) that perhaps Damon makes that catch. But perhaps he doesn’t. Can’t ever know that.
The problem with putting Hairston out there because his arm is better than Damon’s is that they weren’t playing at home. It’s not enough on the road to stop the scoring – you’ve got to score yourself and then still stop the other team one more time.
But you know, so many things, so many little and big things didn’t break the Yankees way yesterday.
I’m just laughing a little inside because I remember Girardi saying once the playoffs began it would “all hands on deck,” but I don’t think anyone realized to what extent he meant that! He will use every player every game if he has to in order to win. Ya gotta shake your head. Because this is, in theory, not a bad way to be. No single player is above the team in the battle for the title. But, man, it’s dizzying. And you find yourself, like on Saturday, seeing a situation where ARod is “protected” in the lineup by Guzman and Gardner, and yesterday losing your DH. Sigh.
Absolutely no way Damon tracks that ball down. Knowing Damon, he’s more likely to run face first into the wall with complete reckless abandon…likely injuring himself. Hairston gave it a good try, but its not worth racking ones brain over.
There’s a long list of guilty parties responsible for the loss.
I love Andy, but I put him at the top of the list.
Oh, and all the guys who came up short with their situational hitting.
Look how badly we played, and still lost by one in the 11th.
Today’s a different day. Let’s hope CC makes the hitters want to crawl back into the dugout.
“Sure, it’s easy – it was a terrible move.”
And to that I will say what I always say about managing. What separates a brilliant move from a dumb move is execution of the play.
Enjoy the day all. Let’s look forward to a sparkling win tonight!
Enough Pitching Changes
October 20th, 2009 at 11:50 am
it would have been difficult to win that game in extra innings..and a lot went wrong…
Swisher’s bat killed the yanks
Joba killed the yanks…
The Win Probability Added for Joba (-.22) and Aceves (-.46)show just how wrong it went for them. For comparison, Mo’s WPA was +.32. Thought that was kind of interesting.
http://www.baseball-reference......0190.shtml
According to the stats Kazmir fastballs account for about 70% of his pitches. The rest are sliders and changeups. The book on him has been to get his pitch count up and you can usually get him out by the 6th inning. Looks like a tough proposition for the slumping hitters needing to be patient but also trying to more aggressive to avoid the 2 strike situation.
Don’t know if I can stand another cliff hanger. I know we beat him the last go around in LA last month so if we can play near the same game we come out ahead.
7 hours and 55 minutes until Game 4!!!!
Technically, Aceves is responsible for the loss because he did not execute his pitches.
However, just as they’ve had team wins, this was a team loss. No hitting with RISP, Andy tiring fairly early and not able to put away Vlad (said he missed his spot, regardless of whether Girardi visited or not), Joba not being effective, did I mention no hitting with RISP? And finally, taking out Robertson prematurely (which may or may not have changed the outcome of the game) to put in a pitcher who has not been sharp of late and who was brought into a situation that he really hasn’t been used in much, and then not being able to get one lousy out.
A team loss.
doesnt matter who was in LF, how does a .211 hitter keep hurting this team?
Kendrick was 1-2 against Robertson. You don’t make decisions based on 2 AB’s. It was a dumb decision because Aceves, like Chamberlain hasn’t pitched well since July.
David Robertson meanwhile has been lights out.
It was overmanaging and it cost Girardi bigtime. Hopefully, he learned his lesson.
He’s a first year manager in the post-season and he does have the tendency to think its football with all of the mass changes in given situations. It works at times and also cost them…as it did yesterday.
Damon wasn’t calling out Girardi, he was stating a fact.
Damon has called Girardi the best manager he has ever played for. Players don’t call out managers they respect and Damon respects Girardi. There was nothing in his comments that denoted calling out. He’s going to answer questions honestly. If folks can’t take it, that’s on them.
He’s right. It was a smart move to lift him in that situation AND it also took his bat out of the lineup.
Bottom line is this….
The offense has to hit or they will lose this series.
The only way you will keep Girardi from overmanaging is to score enough runs where he can just go to the “formula”, Starter to Hughes to Mo.
If its more than that, advantage Angels.
That was a VERY winnable game they gave away yesterday. Hopefully, we don’t look back on it after the series is over and wonder what might have been.
Doreen
October 20th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
It crossed my mind (and my husband’s) that perhaps Damon makes that catch. But perhaps he doesn’t. Can’t ever know that.
The problem with putting Hairston out there because his arm is better than Damon’s is that they weren’t playing at home. It’s not enough on the road to stop the scoring – you’ve got to score yourself and then still stop the other team one more time.
****
Thats exactly it.
I am not 100% certain Damon would have caught the ball. No one will ever be. But it is definitely within the realm of possibility.
I will be so happy with a win tonight and putting last night behind us
Sorry Trisha I have to disagree.
The Yankees have won in the postseason DESPITE Girardi and his moves, not because of them.
Just like if they win a championship it will be bacause they overcame all the micro-managing and playing every game like its game 7 of the WS.
Its like Girardi thinks the game will end in a tie if it goes more than 12 innings. That’s the way he manages.
A hitter is 1-3 vs. one pitcher but 0-3 vs.the other one…gotta make the change.
Who cares if the guy is throwing lights out? Who cares if anyone is left in the pen or on the bench?
Guzman stole 2 out of 2 bases vs. Mathis but Gardner only stole 2 out of 3. Gotta use Guzman.
I’d like to sneak into the dugout and burn that stupid binder Girardi scampers over to every at bat.
The Yankees are by far the most talented team left in these playoffs. The only way they lose is if Girardi blows up.
He’s overmanaging EVERY game, every move of every game. Its making me sick.
Tired of hearing about last nights game, lets talk about today.
ed_price: IBB with no one on in tied playoff game: Luzisnki ’78, Bonds 3 times, Pujols ’06, A-Rod ’09. Luzinski and Pujols both after count had reached 3-0
Sabathia said he usually doesn’t have his FB when he’s on 3 days rest.
It’s amazing that in a year where it looks like/d the Yankees year they might find some way to eff this up.
Whether it’s the offense or the manager. Not looking good thus far despite the 5-1 record.
The offense has to set the tone tonight, as a lot of people have pointed out. The excuses should be out the window at this point. They have all seen Kazmir a bunch of times and certainly know what to expect from him. The weather is optimal because it’s SoCal. The shadows should be less of a factor because the game is starting later, although it might be tough in the first few innings.
I wanted to come here and say this last night but didn’t get a chance so i’ll say it now.
I don’t really blame Joe Girardi for the loss last night, for a number of reasons, even though so many people are quick to blame him because his moves didn’t pay off.
1. Pinch running for Matsui: Why not? they were down by a run, they needed a guy who they knew could get to 2nd and who could score from 2nd on a base hit. That’s the whole reason he’s on the team. To pinch run in the late innings of a close game for Matsui and Posada. Unfortunately, while Gardner’s speed is blinding, he doesn’t quite have the base-stealer smarts yet, and he ran in a textbook pitch-out situation and paid for it. Lo and behold, if he had waited at first, or ran at a better time and made it to 2nd, he would’ve scored on Jorge’s homer and we likely would’ve won the game. Now obviously Matsui would’ve scored on the homer if he stayed on, but clearly Joe Girardi lacks the ability to predict the future and wasn’t counting on Jorge homering.
2. Talking to Andy and Jorge before the Guerrero at bat: I don’t really know what that was all about but I think it’s silly to blame that mound conference for the homerun….I mean really? I’m pretty surprised that people actually said that. Do you think Joe went out there and said “Hey guys. Give up the lead here. K thx bye.”?
3. Hairston pinch hitting for Gardner: This was the only move I had a problem with. I think it’s pretty much a crap shoot there between which of those guys you want batting, but in that situation he should’ve stuck with gardner, who could bunt for a hit perhaps, rather than waste both of our backup outfielders by taking gardner out of the game and making hairston the DH.
4. Hairston going to left to replace Johnny, losing the DH: Obviously since I don’t think Hairston should’ve even been the DH in the first place, I can’t say I agreed with this move. But i don’t blame them…in game 2 Damon was only like 50 feet from 3rd base and still couldn’t get Matthews Jr. scoring from 2nd….sheesh. Gotta figure Hairston could at least throw better than that. And it wound up not mattering because the only ball hit in the vicinity of hairston, i doubt johnny would’ve caught either. Then there was Cervelli having to be the pinch hitter for Mo. That was a bit rough because we could’ve had Damon there. But I don’t think it’s a huge deal in the sense that it took Mo out of the game because I doubt Mo would’ve come out to pitch the next inning anyway.
5. Aceves coming in for Roberston with 2 outs and no one on: This is where most people (understandably) had an issue with Joe, obviously, because Aceves lost the game. But I can’t blame Joe for the move…maybe it was somewhat unnecessary, but i certainly didn’t expect it to go badly. did you? I figured Aceves would’ve had no problem getting 1 out. I’m sure most of you did too. And Joe. Robertson had pitched a lot in game 2, and since they’re playing again today you don’t want all of your short relievers throwing a lot of high stress pitches. plus Robertson was on the DL with an elbow problem not too long ago…so i fully understand taking Robertson out. Who’s to say Robertson would’ve gotten the 3rd out anyway?
Anyway, it sucks. Sometimes a manager pushes all the wrong buttons. But for the most part, I think a lot of people are extremely hasty in saying they’ve lost faith in Girardi because of 1 game. Did you also lose faith in Derek Jeter because he grounded weekly back to the mound in the 8th inning in an RBI situation?
2.
Monday morning quarterbacking. Doncha love it? Everyone has an opinion, and everyone is convinced her or his opinion is the right one!
SJ it appears that more went into it than 2 AB. Girardi and Eiland conferred and made the decision. It didn’t work out.
And so we move on.
Since I’m convinced the Yankees will win the world series this year, I guess I’m not as
trisha – OPPC lifetime member and a true believer in baseball karma
October 20th, 2009 at 11:48 am
“Too small a smaple size to go there- 1 for 2 .500 BAA”
If you couple that with the information you have about Kendrick and fast ball hitting, maybe it was enough to tip the balance.
—————————–
Robertson has a far better curveball than Aceves. And if Joe was so worried about Howie Kendrick, he should have had DRob thrown a bunch of junk at Kendrick trying to get him to chase (the old unintentional intentional walk). Then KRob could have overpowered Mathis who is certainly not a fastball hitter.
Not to mention, I think Ace only threw one offspeed pitch the entire at bat so instead of Howie Kendrick trying to hit Drobs fastball he was facing Aceves.
I understand also you are not defending the decision. I am just offering the counter point to that
“Face it folks, Pete is not who we thought he was. Everyone should have known this the moment he announced his job change. You don’t just go from the Yankees to the Red Sox, right before the play-offs no less, without being a real low life. The worst was when he said he was never a Yankees fan, just a sports reporter. I’m guessing he really is a Red Sox fan”
how old are you? 10? 12, tops?
“Sabathia said he usually doesn’t have his FB when he’s on 3 days rest.”
He said his BEST fastball not just his fastball.
The question becomes is 90% of CC’s best better than 100% of Gaudin’s best?
Bodh, yes, that’s his email……and I agree with you.
M, Johnny needs to stop talking; his comment about not having to hit with RISP because it’s the post-season is ridiculous.
I’m sorry, this is a very good team and I think it may be managed out of the playoffs by the manager. Let me make it clear that I put most of the blame on the offense last night……However, Joe is not putting his team in the best position to win. Alex will never see another good pitch for the rest of the series – partly because the other guys are not hitting, partly because Joe is running a little league lineup out there for half the game. Forget the pinch runners….I’m sorry, I want Matsui and Damon (even Swish -I mean, who else are we going to replace him with) in the lineup. The roster construction stinks, too – I NEVER understood putting Guzman on instead of Hinske.
Trevor October 20th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Sabathia said he usually doesn’t have his FB when he’s on 3 days rest.
It’s amazing that in a year where it looks like/d the Yankees year they might find some way to eff this up.
Whether it’s the offense or the manager. Not looking good thus far despite the 5-1 record.
Trevor it’s a calculated risk, maybe more tailored for a game 7 where he can pitch at home on normal or extended rest. If you were a poker player I think you would have to play it this way. He’s a good pitcher, if he has anything in the tank I’d expect him to use his experience to put on a good performance out there, that is all we can expect.
Gaudin is sitting on a shelf.He has thrown zero in any of the postseason games.
To expect him to be great is wishful thinking.Joe hasn’t used him.Hopefully he’s so motivated by all the postseason action that he’ll be effective when called upon.
If the Yankees lose this series,Melky,should be traded.Yankees need hitter combined with defense.
Every year I wish the Yankees get younger.Damon,Matsui are too old to extend contracts to anymore.
Tonight’s formula is simple.
Layoff the slow stuff in the dirt. They should lay off every pitch below the belt in the first 3 innings.
The offense is dead because too many guys are chasing too many pitches in the dirt.
51 swings on balls in the dirt last night. Sorry but, that’s ridiculous.
Kazmir is going to show his fastball and use his slider in the dirt to get K’s. If you layoff the sliders in the dirt, he will be forced to pitch up in the zone and he is hittable up in the zone.
What Girardi has to do tonight is not overmanage.
You can’t expect Nick Punto, Carlos Gomez, Torii Hunter and Bobby Abreu to run themselves out of innings to bail out your overmanaging moves.
Personally, I’d sit Swisher for Hairston tonight because Nick is lost at the plate and they need somebody at the bottom of the order capable of making contact. Right now, they don’t have anybody who can do it.
I’d also stop with Joba in the 7th inning. David Robertson must be that choice from hereon out of they want to win this series.
The Yankees are the better team. They do however have to start playing better baseball AND the manager needs to chill out with overmanaging.
If not, they will lose this series and that puts Girardi front and center on the firing line.
Since I’m convinced the Yankees will win the world series this year, I guess I’m not as turned inside out as others are about last night’s loss. Teams lose. Perhaps it’s easy to say that you hope EVERY loss isn’t one that a team looks back on as THE loss that ended everything.
The Yankees move on. So should we.
GO YANKEES!
“He said his BEST fastball not just his fastball.
The question becomes is 90% of CC’s best better than 100% of Gaudin’s best?”
CC on two days rest is better than Gaudin. That’s no offense to Chad, who’s been a valuable player this year. Regardless of what happens, this is the right move.
7 hours and 55 minutes until Game 4!!!!
Just a bit longer than the average duration of the last two games!
You guys also need to stop harping on the RISP numbers.
This is the freaking playoffs. You’re facing the opponent’s best starters and relievers every game. The hitting numbers aren’t going to be great. That’s a given.
Just look at the way Scoscia has been managing. He uses his starter then Oliver, Fuentes, Jepsen, and Bulger. That’s it. Then he’s gone to a starter (Santana) and had another warming (Lackey).
He’s only using his top 4 bullpen arms then going to a starter.
You’re only facing the best, guys aren’t all going to hit .300. The bottom of the order is going to struggle.
THe RISP numbers aren’t going to be good. What I can’t handle is the manager blowing it once and almost blowing it 2 other times.
The mound visits, the pitching changes, the crazy moves, they all make me sick. I’d like to super glue Girardi’s ass to the bench.
xoxo October 20th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Gaudin is sitting on a shelf.He has thrown zero in any of the postseason games.
To expect him to be great is wishful thinking.Joe hasn’t used him.Hopefully he’s so motivated by all the postseason action that he’ll be effective when called upon.
If the Yankees lose this series,Melky,should be traded.Yankees need hitter combined with defense.
Every year I wish the Yankees get younger.Damon,Matsui are too old to extend contracts to anymore.
It’s pretty obvious to me that Gaudin is the long guy and or the emergency starter. He really hasn’t been needed in that role.
I’m not a Melky fan, in my mind the experiment is over, he didn’t respond in the same way that Posada did after he had that awful year when he first came up and the wolves were after him. He hasn’t gotten any better, perhaps worst.
I thought Damon’s entire quote (which someone posted earlier in a different thread) was to the effect that in the playoffs you’re not going to hit with RISP the same way you are able to during the regular season because of the focus of the pitching in the playoffs. Can anyone really disagree with the full extent of the quote.
I seriously wish that when people quote other people (wherever that is, newspapers, radio, television) they would use the entire quote, not just enough of it to either hang the guy who said it, or to support an argument of their own.
“I’d also stop with Joba in the 7th inning. David Robertson must be that choice from hereon out of they want to win this series”
yup. Joba designated as the new 7th/8th inning man, is the ONLY criticism i have of Girardi, to this point
Joba Chambermaid needs to be told his off-season starts today. He did nothing to help the Yankees win the division
Another big concern was all the soft stuff that was fooling them all night. They worked themselves into favourable counts, but didn’t get the fastballs they were expecting. LAA had no reason to throw them anything hard, because Swish, Melk, and Tex looked lay off the breaking stuff in the dirt. Thankfully, Kazmir mostly throws hard stuff. Hopefully they jump on him early.
Most of the fans have to relax. Up 2 Games to 1 with CC on the mound. That is a good thing! I did not expect them to sweep this series. The Angels can play. They are just as good as the Yankees.
Win tonight, up 3-1 with two games in NYC. The team is in a good spot right now. How about some positive energy and not bringing out all these ridiculous stats. Players have to execute that’s all. Aceves had no one on and two outs in the 11th. He should have gotten the job done and did not. No need to panic!!
Gary,
We play today, we win today!
I don’t know who here starting saying that maybe Damon gets that fly ball that Matthis hit, but there’s no way he catches that. Every time somebody hits it to left field I hold my breath.
Damon looks so bad in the field getting to fly balls.
I am upset at Girardi for taking out Robertson, but I’m more upset that he’s giving as much playing time to Melky who could use a rest on the bench.
The offense is stinking it up too. Swish, Cano, and Melky need to start contributing. Bottom of the line-up is a black hole these days.
Trevor, 99% of the people here said that going to CC was the only move to make. I was hesitant and I got shot down…..People that loved it before (I’m not saying this to you in particular) can not be criticizing the move now.
SJ, you’ve defended Joe most of the year. Don’t you find it sad that the future of this series depends, in part, on how badly or not Joe manages? Great – he got the guys to like each other; I think that happened before he took them to play pool. If you have to worry this much about the manager maybe he shouldn’t be the manager.
As to the offense, don’t you think something is wrong with it at it’s core, sort of like what people always talk about with the Mets? This isn’t one year of futility – it’s constant now, and even the new guys are stinking it up. What happened to Tex? That is why I said yesterday that if the Yankees lose because of the offense, then changes need to be made next year.
What did Torri Hunter say?
Miggs, I certainly respect your thinking and your perspective. But since Girardi managed the team to 103 wins, I have faith in his ability to manage and also to continue to learn how to manage. If I think the Yankees are winning in spite of Girardi, then I have to think they won all season in spite of Girardi. I don’t and I don’t.
As someone pointed out, if Aceves got out of the inning unscathed and the Yankees won the game, everyone would be giddy this morning.
Look, you may be right and Girardi may be wrong. Or you may be wrong and Girardi may be right. I have made it a habit not to analyze after games are lost (monday morning quarterbacking) because it is far too easy to think you have it right just because something went wrong. That and my knowing that I don’t know enough to REALLY know, causes me to let things sit and just look forward.
“I’m not a Melky fan, in my mind the experiment is over, he didn’t respond in the same way that Posada did after he had that awful year when he first came up and the wolves were after him. He hasn’t gotten any better, perhaps worst”
i’ve been a Melky critic, however i believe your statement is a bit strong. Melky had a very solid regular season.
for whatever reason, he now looks like dog sh*t at the plate. That said, so does Tex. Not ready to dump either player.
I asked you, Sam, in the live chat about Girardi’s propensity to over manage and you agreed!!!! Sometimes that will bite you in the arse. DOG BITE CITING!!!!!!!
Trisha,
Girardi couldn’t explain his move last night because even he realized he overdid it. That’s why his post-game “press conference” was only 3 minutes in length.
When a manager comes up with the gobbly gook that “Aceves’ plane on his slider makes it a better matchup to Kendrick than Robertson” sorry but, that’s just nuts.
Aceves’ slider has been HAMMERED since August 1.
Some of us can actually read a scouting report, look at the numbers, and see Girardi was full of it last night in his PC.
Look at Aceves’ numbers since August 1. Chamberlain’s too for that matter. Then, look at Robertson’s numbers.
“Plane of the slider” aside, one guy has been dominant (Robertson). In fact, without Robertson, they are down 2-1 in this series.
The other two have been two of the five worst pitchers in the AL since August 1. Look it up.
Girardi would have been much better off last night saying, “I overdid it and it cost us”. Even if he didn’t believe it, say it and be done with it.
Instead, he reverted back to the 2008 Girardi and tried to defend the indefensible.
Its all fine and dandy if they win 6 more games and win the World Series.
If they blow this series, and Game 3 turns out to be the tipping point, he is on the hot seat.
Not a great place to be in Yankeeland.
If this postseason were a craps game then Girardi has been rolling a long time and he finally rolled a 7 with the Aceves move. Inevitable.
And we can point fingers and toss around cliches like “This game has a heartbeat” but if it weren’t for some mind numbingly bad defense on the part of the Angels?
Our team would be facing elimination tonight.
“I thought Damon’s entire quote (which someone posted earlier in a different thread) was to the effect that in the playoffs you’re not going to hit with RISP the same way you are able to during the regular season because of the focus of the pitching in the playoffs”
True, pitchers concentrate more in October. But the Yankees where not a great hitting team with RISP during the year. And that’s against bad pitching. Good pitching? Forget about.
So in a way it’s really no surprise that they’re struggling now.
Who do you trust? Cano? Swisher? Melky? Matsui? Posada?
As much as we love some of these players during the regular season, there are many guys in this lineup year after year continue to come up short in October.
Girardi made some mistakes last night, although the front office was complicit in some of them.
And yes timely hitting would have won the game for us last night, but you can’t really blame someone for not getting a hit. You can blame a player or a manager (and the front office) for a mental mistake and IMO Girardi and Cashman have made some which were in evidence last night.
First, the Yanks knew going into the series that they were going to DH Matsui, and pinch run for him aggressively. Given that, why is there no back-up DH on the roster? Hairston is the utility guy – using him as the back-up DH negates his utility role. That was in evidence last night when the Yanks lost the DH in order to put Hairston’s stronger arm in LF when it was necessary.
Hinske isn’t on the roster because of Guzman and the three catchers. IMO, it has been absurd to believe Molina has to catch AJ – that’s a mental mistake by both Girardi and Cashman, IMO, and it’s the perceived need to start Molina when AJ pitches which creates the need for three catchers.
But if you do carry three catchers, and you aren’t going to start Gardner, you can’t afford to carry two pinch runners rather than the replacement DH. And the problem with carrying Guzman was shown last night, when Girardi chose to lose the DH (!) rather than replace Damon with Guzman.
With three catchers, Guzman is a luxury there’s no room for. Another mental mistake, IMO.
And Robertson. He earned the spot as the third reliever – he seems to have lost it to Joba’s reputation. Finishing with Robertson-Hughes-Rivera probably wins the game yesterday. Instead, Joba’s reputation ends up fueling the need for Coke/Marte etc. Another mental mistake, IMO.
The Yanks have been playing well, so we fans should keep this in perspective. But as well as the Yanks have played in the post-season so far, we are now one loss away from serious nail-biting time. It didn’t have to be that way.
Miggs,
You are correct, the RISP numbers aren’t going to be like the regular season.
However, you have to be able to hit a SF off a flyball pitcher, as Swisher was unable to do twice last night.
Izturis came off the bench and had no problem doing that against Joba.
If Nick could make two productive outs, the Yankees are up 5-0 and go on to win the game.
The problem is, they aren’t even having good AB’s with RISP. That’s a big problem.
It will be worse if Girardi continues on the stupid tack of playing Molina and sitting Posada tomorrow night.
THREE guys in the lineup are having good AB’s….Arod, Jeter and Posada. They will probably walk Arod the rest of the series. That leaves 2 guys.
If you sit one, you are asking AJ Burnett to pitch a shutout to win a pivotal Game 5.
Sorry but, that’s unfair to AJ and the team.
This is Girardi’s series to lose. He has the better team BY FAR.
No excuses if he can’t win 2 more games in this series.
Stultus,
Guess who said Damon might’ve been able to get to it? (hint behind every good man is a good woman).
Carl Crawford, BJ Upton, Grady Sizemore, maybe those guys get to that ball. But in my opinion they were playing too shallow. Not only was it a gapper, it was a line drive rocket that hit the top of the wall.
No chance.
The move to lift Robertson bothers me, but I don’t think Girardi’s incompetent or should be on a hot-seat. Even the greats like Torre and LaRussa made mistakes in their first post-season, and still are!
I don’t know, Girardi’s not perfect but as always the question is “who else ya got?”
“Our team would be facing elimination tonight.”
I think CC’s performance in Game 1 begs to differ with that scenario. The Angels’ D helped the Yankees win that first game, but CC drove the ship. A similar performance tonight is asking a lot, but I definitely expect him to be good.
Sam I’m glad you finally commented on the racism,profanity and degrading gender slurs.Yankees fans are passionate,but not hateful.On the GAME 2 #3 thread at 12.07 and 12.10 a rude hate filled TYLER used taboo blatant racist comments that sickened me.I have friends too that are black and felt ashamed of bigotry on this forum.
I hope the Yankees dig deep tonight and come out and play their game.Joe needs to settle down the team plays off his vibe.Scoscia out managed him Game 3.
Joe going to the mound so much,instead of sending the pitching coach reeked of desperation and Scoscia picked up on it,and managed accordingly to get the win.
JOE IS TOO ANAL RETENTIVE for my taste,he’s his own biggest stumbling block!
Pitches in the dirt? great point. The Angels are killing the Yanks with breaking stuff- all the strike outs seem to be on breaking balls. They need to take those breaking balls the other way and stop swinging for the fences
ITs amazing how many have struck out on breaking balls and many in the dirt or too low
And one more mistake. If you know you are going to pinch run for Matsui, and don’t have a replacement DH for Matsui, why bat him behind ARod when, once Matsui is out of the lineup, it allows the Angels to pitch around ARod? Posada should bat fifth to prevent that, even if it means messing up the L-R symmetry in the batting order.
“SJ44
October 20th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Tonight’s formula is simple.
Layoff the slow stuff in the dirt. They should lay off every pitch below the belt in the first 3 innings.
The offense is dead because too many guys are chasing too many pitches in the dirt.
51 swings on balls in the dirt last night. Sorry but, that’s ridiculous.
Kazmir is going to show his fastball and use his slider in the dirt to get K’s. If you layoff the sliders in the dirt, he will be forced to pitch up in the zone and he is hittable up in the zone.
What Girardi has to do tonight is not overmanage.
You can’t expect Nick Punto, Carlos Gomez, Torii Hunter and Bobby Abreu to run themselves out of innings to bail out your overmanaging moves.
Personally, I’d sit Swisher for Hairston tonight because Nick is lost at the plate and they need somebody at the bottom of the order capable of making contact. Right now, they don’t have anybody who can do it.
I’d also stop with Joba in the 7th inning. David Robertson must be that choice from hereon out of they want to win this series.
The Yankees are the better team. They do however have to start playing better baseball AND the manager needs to chill out with overmanaging.
If not, they will lose this series and that puts Girardi front and center on the firing line.”
SJ,
I completely agree about Roberson and Joba. Joba has stunk it up lately and had no business being in the tie game. I would have went Robertson, Hughes and Moe. With Posada’s homer we win that game. I also would have kept Robertson in the 11th last night. He was dealing and probably could have went another inning. Of course our offense was doomed all night so who knows if they ever would have pushed across another run. I also agree that it is time to sit Nick. I also wish we had Hinski on this roster instead of Marte.
Bronx Jeers -
But that’s kind of the thing and it cuts both ways. If the Yankees get a couple of hits or SFs early, the Angels would be facing elimination today.
The Angels had a bad first night and the Yankees capitalized and a bad play in the second game. You can’t negate those wins because they were helped along. A win is a win; a loss is a loss. Yesterday, the Yankees did not capitalize on a less-than-stellar Weaver.
When two very well-matched and very talented teams play, it comes down to the who plays best on any given day.
I know it sounds lame, but I chalk it up to it being the first day on the west coast.
And we can point fingers and toss around cliches like “This game has a heartbeat” but if it weren’t for some mind numbingly bad defense on the part of the Angels?
Our team would be facing elimination tonight.
====
Bronx,
The Angels are not a great defensive team, so I take issue with your premise that those miscues were aberrant.
Their over rated defense is part of their team – thus, those mistakes are part of their inferiority.
We also have the better pitching and bullpen, which will bear out as the series moves along.
“Some of us can actually read a scouting report, look at the numbers, and see Girardi was full of it last night in his PC.”
Guess you didn’t read the same scouting report pat referred to a short while ago.
SJ44, I totally respect your knowledge and much of the time your analysis, but I also think you tend to get too worked up on a per game basis and then YOU start to overthink! The postseason is a work in progress. Torre the great left Joba to fight off midges! He also wore out his bullpen before they had a chance to succeed it to the postseason -year after year. Girardi is getting nothing but acolades with how he kept both his starters and bullpen fresh in September – especially CC – with an eye toward the postseason.
When people look at things in retrospect, they might remember Aceves in extra innings but they will certainly also remember all the RISP and Andy giving up the two-run
homer that started the whole problem.
Just as I told you Gaudin would be on the postseason roster when you said there was no chance, so will I tell you that Girardi’s job is entirely safe no matter what happens the rest of this postseason. No manager in his second year getting his team to the ALCS gets the boot.
I still say we win the world series, so again, I look forward and not backward. Let the manager and his coaches manager, let the players play, and let the fans cheer them on!
Trevor -
I was really just speaking the quote attributed to Damon (and how it was take somewhat out of context in that the complete quote is not being used), not the actual performance of the actual Yankees with RISP to date. They’ve been awful, and as SJ44 pointed out, not only are they not getting hits, they’re not even having good at-bats.
OK, everyone is STILL crying about last night?
Get over it!!!
We have a game at 7:57pm with CC on the bump and a series lead at 2-1.
Girardi will likely shakeup the lineup a bit, hopefully the hitters will take some extra BP this morning, and we’ll be good to go by game time.
SERIOUSLY, did any of you REALLY think that this series would be easy? None of you, and I repeat, NONE OF YOU, would do a better a job than Girardi and his staff so stop being delusional.
Trevor, I said that before the playoffs began, and I got killed. You may even have criticized me for saying the same thing. If that’s all the case, then maybe the Yankees aren’t that good?
“This is Girardi’s series to lose. He has the better team BY FAR.
No excuses if he can’t win 2 more games in this series.”
Now that I agree with!
“We also have the better pitching and bullpen, which will bear out as the series moves along.”
There ya go!
thought Damon’s entire quote (which someone posted earlier in a different thread) was to the effect that in the playoffs you’re not going to hit with RISP the same way you are able to during the regular season because of the focus of the pitching in the playoffs. Can anyone really disagree with the full extent of the quote.
____________________________________________________________
I posted part of the quote because thats what I heard on wfan this morning. Makes much more sense when you read the whole thing. Same deal as what Jorge had said during Molina-gate lol.
lol, trisha. Can’t see the Yankees firing Girardi after winning at least 108 games.
I mean, they might want to, but they’re not that manic. How embarrassing for the organization would that be? 108 not good enough for the Yankees?
Wave, I completely agree re: Molina/AJ. AJ does not need a crutch. They spent a lot of $$$ on this guy and they should have some faith in him. I’m surprised that he’s not annoyed at this personally…..
Doreen…you got it…as Sam wrote (and Rob Neyer on ESPN), the Yanks failed to execute with RISP, but you’re doubly correct when you say that the at bats of some hitters were AWFUL!
Hopefully we turn that around today.
Not sure how we’re going from a incomprehensibly bad move to the manager’s firing.
The fact that he won’t be fired does not soften a decision that wasn’t just awful, but which was strenuous, considering the prosperity on the mound at the time.
The fact that the move was awful doesn’t mean the manager’s firing is imminent.
See how that works?
.
SJ44 you’re right about productive outs.
I wasn’t really refering to your posts as much as other people ripping the entire lineup except Jeter, A Rod, and Posada. This is the playoffs. Good pitching will beat good hitting most times.
That’s why I get so upset with the aspects of the game that can be controlled, specifically Girardi’s imprint on every at bat and pitch.
Its kind of like the overbearing, controlling spouse. Why are you eating your steak before you finish your salad? I think a red tie goes better with that suit than a blue one.
Sometimes you just have to let ther players play. If this series becomes a chess match of Girardi vs. Scioscia I do NOT like out chances.
Think about it. Last year the Yankees win 89 games and miss the playoffs. So Cashman goes out and signs the top 2 free agent starting pitchers available. He then signs the top position player on the market. He trades for Swisher and gives up nothing in return.
Basically Cash is like… Here Joe, here’s the best team I can possibly assemble. If you can just guide it and nurture it you will succeed. Try and make it about you and you’ll fail.
Just sit there and let the best team in baseball win you a title.
“SERIOUSLY, did any of you REALLY think that this series would be easy? None of you, and I repeat, NONE OF YOU, would do a better a job than Girardi and his staff so stop being delusional.”
A-FLIPPIN-MEN!!!
You are not such a Mad Prince after all! In fact, I think you are the most sane poster here. I stay away from the game threads because I know they are going to be “beserk per pitch”, especially during the postseason. I typically stay away from the threads the morning after any loss because I know there is going to be murder and mayhem!
I didn’t like one of Torii’s comments so came to post on that. I didn’t stop to think about any other discussion, silly me.
Anyway it’s all good. We’re all fans hoping for the same outcome.
I wish it was anyone but Kazmir pitching. Yankees offensive numbers against him are pretty terrible. .225/.314/.326
If Pettitte gets out of the six inning. You know he would have went to Joba (he was warming) for that 7th.
I agree with others, Joba doesn’t deserve to be the 7th inning guy. Not when Robertson has been pitching that inning for most of the season. Someone who’s actually earned it.
At least Robertson has movement on his FB. That helps him get Ks and he hides it better. Joba throws a straight FB with bad location usually. Why is he being trusted so much?
The obvious pecking order is Joba 6th Robertson 7th
but Girardi doesn’t see it that way.
C’mon, people.
The Yanks will be fine. All the panicking is just crazy. They got a big wakeup call yesterday and they’ve overcome obstacles all season long.
Tonight will be no different because CC will go out there and do his thing.
CHILL OUT and enjoy this team. They will bounce back. The big story tomorrow will be the Yanks on the verge of going back to the WS.
trisha,
Ya, I was stuck at work for most the game yesterday and ended up reading more of this blog at game time than I should have.
So much negativity…really kills any enjoyment of this blog during those times.
I can say this much: I definitely will not be visiting this blog anytime between 7:57EST and tomorrow morning
“If they blow this series, and Game 3 turns out to be the tipping point, he is on the hot seat”
SJ44: if this does turn out to be true, it will be completely retarded nontheless. Girardi is the man for this job and has proven it from the time he’s taken over.
if Tex and/or the bottom of this lineup was able to hit the broad side of a barn, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. As it stands, Girardi is the de facto scapegoat. Be thankful we have a manager who is trying to win every post-season game and is aggressive, instead of the one who was asleep at the wheel and sipping green tea from 2002-2007.
Giuseppe,
That’s the flavor I’m talking about!!!
Optimism! We’re still in a great spot. We’ve won in Anaheim before and our best pitcher is on the bump tonight.
As Ben Stiller says in “Starsky and Hutch”: “DO IT! DO IT!”
“Our team would be facing elimination tonight.”
I think CC’s performance in Game 1 begs to differ with that scenario. The Angels’ D helped the Yankees win that first game, but CC drove the ship. A similar performance tonight is asking a lot, but I definitely expect him to be good.
————————————————————–
You’re right and the starters certainly deserve their due.
Only 2 of the runs they scored last Fri were because of bad defense.
Still, these games keep reminding me of the 2001 World Series. They’re stealing wins from the grip of defeat.
Now that I’ve gotten over my first post season loss blues, a few thoughts: Tonight is must-win. You can’t put a ton of pressure on AJ, and a win tonight and the day off would ease his mind.
We need to score first, and no more funny business with the pen. If Cano continues to not produce with RISP, bench him. We don’t need automatic outs in our line-up. I know it’s easy to blame the manager, but taking Robertson out was a mistake – plain and simple. The odds weren’t on our side (extras away), but that move gave the game away.
Hopefully our first post season loss will serve as a wake up call, both to the quiet bats and Joey G. Tonight is big.
vinny-b,
I give management and the team enough credit to assume that they all know that last night’s loss was a team effort, not Girardi’s sole responsibility.
You think the Angels are crying for firing Sciosca after losing Saturday?
Someone posted this on RAB and I think it is a great idea. What do you guys think
——————–
On the basis that pinch running for Matsui late in the game is the right move, and on the basis that ARod is absolutely murdering the ball and there is a need now more than ever for him to see as many strikes as humanly possible, is there a downside I’m not seeing to flip flopping Tex and Arod in the batting order?
More protection for Arod, maybe an extra at bat for ARod, and it’s much less likely that Tex will be pulled for a pinch runner.
The only person that can check Joe is Cashman his boss,and last night,I hope he got an earful.
As a Yankees fan,Joe is hard to get behind.He’s his biggest head case.
When Mo threw to third,he fell.The camera zeroed in on the grimace on his facewhile on the ground.I hope he didn’t tweek his shoulder.We’ll know next outing.
When Posada hit the home run,AJ was leaning on the railing close to the steps,he never moved to congratulate him like the team did,mind you this run tied the game.There’s something negative between them for sure,it’s being kept under wraps.
reminds me when BOb Lemon took over for Billy Martin and just let his stars play the game, and basically didnt over manage like Billy did
mel and bod – when SJ suggested that Joe would be on the hot seat and it’s not a pretty place to be in Yankeeland (if things fall apart) I thought he was suggesting that Joe’s job was on the line. That of course is ludicrous.
bod, I don’t agree or disagree about Joe’s move because I know he knows more than I do about managing. So no matter how vociferously someone comes out and says Joe got it wrong I’m in the Mad Prince’s arena.
I remember a night on this forum when Girardi made a move and all of the managers here were flipping out, calling him the worst names in the world, calling for his head, etc. The forum was inconsolable. Until the next day when he explained why he did it and then people came out and said they understood and hadn’t thought of (whatever it was).
Of course they didn’t! That’s why he’s the manager and they’re not.
The only thing of which I am sure is that Girardi knows more than I about managing the Yankees.
Onward and upward!
Scoscia got a little testy with the press last night when they asked him if he went into last night considering the game a “must win”. He said that since they weren’t down 3 games to 0, there was no must win involved!
I think of this the same way. Tonight is not a must win. It will be great to win though!
I still like the thought that the Yankees could lose the next two (not that they will!) and still get to go home to the Stadium.
2 things…
1) yes, i agree with the critisism that Girardi has taken in light of his decisions last night, however his decisions have also taken us through 5 games in the playoffs without a loss so its hard to critize too much (althought one could make the case that it was the many errors of the Twins and Angels as the reason for our winning). Rather than critizing each move, i prefer the term over-managed…he just needs to let the talent take care of business!!
2) Was the defense in a no-doubles alignment??? Its hard to believe that kendrick would have scored from first if they were and hairston might have had a better chance at making the catch. i actually have no idea whether they were or not,…does anyone know??
Joe needs to go to Robertson more often and stop using Aceves. I am sick of him putting in pitchers that shouldn’t be in there for a certain situation.
And will Swish, Cano, and Melky grow a brain and learn how to adjust to a breaking ball. They need to read a book on Situational hitting.
Our Carston Charles, Who art our Ace
Hallowed be Thy Slider;
Thy strike outs come,
Thy will be done,
in Anaheim as it was in the Bronx.
Give us this day our birth right,
and forgive us our Swisher’s hitlessness,
as we forgive Tex who can’t buy a hit;
and lead us not into a 2-2 series,
but deliver us to the World Series. Amen.
whopisthedogg
October 20th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Our Carston Charles, Who art our Ace
Hallowed be Thy Slider;
Thy strike outs come,
Thy will be done,
in Anaheim as it was in the Bronx.
Give us this day our birth right,
and forgive us our Swisher’s hitlessness,
as we forgive Tex who can’t buy a hit;
and lead us not into a 2-2 series,
but deliver us to the World Series. Amen.
=====
From your pen to CC’s arm
.
Jeremy October 20th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
And will Swish, Cano, and Melky grow a brain and learn how to adjust to a breaking ball. They need to read a book on Situational hitting.
What’s surprising is Swish chasing bad pitches, he normally has a good eye. The last three years he has had 100/82/97 BB’s with 500 AB’s.
The other two it’s more of the same. Cano 39/26/30 BB’s in about 600 AB’s, Melky just slightly better 43/29/43 in 500 AB’s