Ump regrets his error
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- October
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Tim McClelland is generally recognized as one of the best umpires in baseball – even Reggie Jackson admitted as much after yesterday’s game – but there’s no debating that he had a bad night in Game 4. If you’re interested in reading more about how McClelland handled his screw-ups, check out this story from his hometown paper.
My general feeling is that the Swisher call is the more debatable of the two. Did he leave too early? Probably not. But those side-by-side camera shots you see of his foot and Torii Hunter catching the ball aren’t necessarily as reliable as you might believe. TV people have told me that in those situations you’re trying to match up the times on two different cameras to give you the side-by-side look; there’s no guarantee that the times are synced perfectly, so the “proof” may not be as conclusive as you would think.
That said, there’s absolutely no debating the Posada/Cano call. That one was just bad. The best thing you can say about both calls is that, in the end, they didn’t end up impacting the result of the game.
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on Wednesday, October 21st, 2009 at 8:30 pm by Sam Borden.
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Chad Jennings
Josh Thomson
I’m gonna take so much pleasure seeing The Yankees smash The Phillies in around a week. Bullies of The National League who get fat off playing The Mets and Nationals several times a year and have faced mediocre pitching most of this postseason.
I can’t wait until Sabathia, Burnett and our bullpen gets their hands on them. Time to watch your bats shatter boys!
He didn’t even look in the direction of Swisher’s feet.
All You Need Is Love
mick,
So why are you getting on people who’re showing Wang a little love? No one said anything contrary to what your point is.
I don’t have time to play word games. See you later.
Now I would prefer the Phillies rather than LA. After all, there’s a certain extra zing because they ARE the reigning champs
Do the Yankees turn around their switch hitters on Hamels?
Hamels sucks ! He is so overrated. Lefty’s are killing him. That won’t bode well for him against the Yanks at Yankee Stadium.
My word, is Citizens Park that small?
Hamels is not an Ace. The pitcher to worry about on their staff is Lee. If Pedro pitches he won’t last 5 innings.
Not to say the Phillies don’t have a good lineup but the Dodgers really have no starting pitching.
Wolf is average
Paddila is average
Billingsley is good but hurt
Kuroda is average
Kershaw is their best pitcher but still raw. He is a guy I will be targeting in all my fantasy leagues next year
m
I never got on anyone.
It was only a matter of time before Padilla came down to earth… that Dodgers rotation is not very good, I’m still surprised that they were able to beat the Cardinals.
Meanwhile, Hamels looks very beatable. I wonder if the newborn baby is a distraction. Not exactly good planning for a baby to be due during the playoffs (if there was planning at all…)
But one more thing, he didn’t make a call on the play. Torii appealed and he agreed. That was way too close to call, even in the best of circumstances. And I said earlier, these guys need to confer more on close/controversial calls. There’s a chance that another ump had a better view.
Torii had no chance to watch Swisher leave the bag, he was catching the ball. Talk about the blind leading the blind.
All you need to do is love the Black Eyed Peas commercial for DirecTV.
Is anyone else salivating at the idea of “Who’s Your Daddy?” chants in the Bronx again?????
Hamels is not overrated. He had a hip issue during spring training that I don’t know if he ever recovered from. Couple that with the fact that he threw like 250 innings or so last year and there you have it
I think it’s time to seriously consider more technology in helping umpires do their job. I am amazed at how many bad calls there have been in these MLB playoffs- and I have only watched about 2/3rds of the total time of the Yankees games.
I believe last night’s game had at least 4 obvious errors:
1. Swisher pick off attempt at 2nd base
2. Swisher “leaving early” on sacrifice fly
3. Posada-Cano “non-double play” at 3rd base
4. I remember seeing another, but can’t remember it at this moment.
I think it would be useful to compile and maintain a complete list of all of the errors at all of the playoff games… decisions are best made when accurate information is available.
So, all I am firmly recommending at this point is compiling and maintaining this complete list.
Who wants to do it?
23 hours and 18 minutes until Game 5!!!!!!!!!
He wasn’t even looking at Swisher’s feet.
He was in the wrong position to make that call.
He needed to be further down the line to be able to make the proper call.
Instead, he guessed, ie: decided to pull a makeup call for the missed call at second and failed miserably.
He should be pulled from the crew.
Instead, he will work tomorrow night and screw up another call or three.
As long as there is no accountability for their failures, they will continue to fail.
Didn’t Hamels also become a daddy last week?
Black taco
Has anyone actually tried a black taco? They look kind of gross to me
Hey guys any chance McClellan was “making up” for the botched call with swisher second by saying he left early at third?
bandbox!!!!
LOL
Not afraid of either these teams. Phillies are the defending champs but their pitching looks quite beatable.
Obviously they have a tremendous lineup but I like the Yankee pitching match-up on paper against them. And any good pitching could shut any offense down Yankees or Phillies.
The Dodgers have a good pen but that’s all.
Balls fly out of Citizens Bank like YS.
Black Taco
Ever since I discovered Besito and rosa mexicana i can no longer eat the bell
SJ
It seems like McClelland went for Hunter’s deke.
How would Hunter know if Swisher left too soon?
Hunter pulled the same thing at first base when he called himself safe in game 3.
He also deked Posada into not scoring from 2nd on Cano’s double.
Got to watch that guy.
No commentary from the TV folks on the “bandbox” in Philly or is that only reserved for Yankee Stadium?
Wow, I just figured out I can get Vin Scully on the radio call.
This could shape up to be a question of who gets rocked less, Cole Hamels or Vicente Pinata. Ouch!
Hey, I just heard a Bigelow Tea commercial!!
I am jumping in the shower now. For those who were concerned, I do shower even without Yankee games being on
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
October 21st, 2009 at 8:21 pm
GreenBeret7
October 21st, 2009 at 8:06 pm
I think back to that Met’s game at Shea when he allowed one run and 1 walk while striking out 10 batters, while throwing about 3 sinkers. Everything else was 95-96 MPH fastballs up and in and sliders down and away. Nobody ever did explain why he changed styles of pitching in that game. Not sure if the sinker wasn’t sinking in warm-ups or not.
=======
http://www.40chienmingwang.com…..d=20070617
One thing Yankee scouts loved about Wang was not only him being a horse, but that his velo would often rise in the later innings.
Guy is a helluva pitcher, and if he can get back on schedule, our rotation goes from the sublime to the ridiculous .
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I’m hoping that Wang can return by mid-season and put up the type of numbers he did in the last half of 2005 or frst part of 2008. You’re talking about getting a top of the line starter given to you for nothing. He wasn’t a flashy numbers pitcher, but, I doubt than many hitters enjoyed facing him. He was just the type of pitcher that you enjoyed watching pick apart lineups. I think that it was because the numbers (strikeouts) weren’t flashy, it seems like he was the same as you and me…that we could do that too. We already know that we can’t throw in the upper 90s. For old time fans, he was a lot like the ‘63-’64 version of Jim Bouton or Mel Stottlemyre.
I’m sorry but Hamels is overrated. He had that one great year last year but other than that I don’t see him as one of the best pitchers in the game today like Philly fans say. Cliff Lee is one of the best in the game today.
Why is Troncoso warming up?? He is a 7th inning guy
And they say Yankee Stadium is a bandbox.
4 homers in less than 2 full innings in Philly.
The possibility of ARod in that ballpark, the way he is hitting right now, is scary.
oh A-Rod and Teixiera will love playing there, if and when the Yanks makes it.
Erica
There could be a “Who’s Your Daddy,” chant game 7 at the Stadium.
Pedro’s turn might come up vs Andy or CC, if they pitch him 3 times.
Where’s Richie Phillips or Sandy Alderman when you need them…..Umps have been on the decline since they both left ….
GB7,
Here’s Wang’s “flashy” number: one pitch, two outs
.
He was living 92-95 and topping out at 97 in 2004, and considered by the Yanks a “pure, power arm.”
This guy can throw, and he can pitch. If the Yanks let him walk away, Cashman ought to have his head examined. I don’t think BC is stupid, however.
You showering with Manny
So could this odd day off affect the Yankees momentum? Let Nick Swisher handle that one: “We haven’t really thought about it,” he said. “We got something to eat, went to bed and got up early. This is early for me, man.”
It was 11:10 a.m.
http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde....._posa.html
********
Um Swish by 11 am I am at work for 2 1/2 hours!
From the NYT
‘When Werth homered, Torre sat motionless in the Dodgers dugout with a very sour expression. I’ve definitely seen that look on his face recently. Oh yes, it was during batting practice, when he was talking to the former Yankees reliever Jeff Nelson. Nelson always had that effect on Torre.’
The Manny shower interview was a classic.
I know Wang was great but for some reason I never had confidence in the playoffs when he pitched. To me he is a poor man’s Webb. He is a number 2 at best
wow..the dodgers dont want to win this game.
The umpiring has been terrible all around this season, but I think how the media keep going on about each call is playing to their agendas.
Remember when the home run calls were singled out and harped about till MLB brought in replay. Every blown call gets played at least a dozen times during the game, then the talking heads harp on it all week long and show the slow motion views from every angle they can.
Last night they apparently showed the blown calls on the stadium screens.
Its not that I don’t think there are bad calls made, they are. It just seems that the media has decided that they want replays in more than just HR calls now that the door was opened.
Guess what, that was the major argument against even having HR calls replayed, that it would lead to more and more.
I foresee that it will end up having replays in the game, and rules will be added, and then more rules will be needed because they will focus on that. It will get to a point where it will change the game quite a bit.
I am all for getting the call right, but at what cost? Most times no one ever looks at what the consequences of these changes can lead to.
The real crime is the Phillis getting Cliff Lee for basically a bag of balls. Kinda of like what the Mets gave up for Santana. At least the Brewers gave up Laporta
What’s the longest stretch of homers over half innings?
McClelland is still the best in the league, despite that mess up. Luckily none of the bad calls really affected the outcome.
(Repost, I didn’t see the new thread. Sorry.
)
Joe from Long Island -
I had heard about what the Phillies fans were doing, which is exactly what prompted me to write that they are crazy!
Plus, my husband and I were fortunate enough to go the Super Bowl a few years ago between the “Iggles” and the Patriots. We are fans of neither team, but ended up going for the Patriots because the Eagles fan base was, well — let’s just say the were green and the Patriots fanbase was more subdued!
If the Yankees are fortunate enough to get to the WS and Philly is the opponent, I surely hope they’ve got armored cars or something.
Um Swish by 11 am I am at work for 2 1/2 hours!
_____________________
By 11 I have worked more than 4 hours. Wow, someone who still has “bankers hours”!
Philly fans are the biggest lowlifes out there. They make Boston fans seem cultured
“Has anyone actually tried a black taco?”
no. But the commercial kills me. Black sheep…baaaaaaahhhh
8:30 is bankers hours? I am one of the first ones in my office. All the other idiots don’t show up till 10.
Hey Sam, Shut the hell up.
abdab—-One thing I noticed. McCarver went crazy on that play at 1st when Hunter called himself safe and supposedly Tex came off the bag. The replay showed he didn’t yet Tim ranted into the next inning about it being a bad call.
The next day the same play happened again when Jeter hit a DP and the replay showed him safe.
Not a word from Timmy. It was as if he left the booth. Dead silence.
And he gets away with it because of his bias and the yank-haters eat it up. Go figure. I guess he is just doing what he is told to do.
Black taco…
The black taco commercial cracks me up because it is so bad you remember it.
Let’s hope the umpires don’t cost a team a win in the World Series with their horrendous calls.
If you don’t like what Sam is writing why read it?
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
October 21st, 2009 at 8:49 pm
GB7,
Here’s Wang’s “flashy” number: one pitch, two outs .
He was living 92-95 and topping out at 97 in 2004, and considered by the Yanks a “pure, power arm.”
This guy can throw, and he can pitch. If the Yanks let him walk away, Cashman ought to have his head examined. I don’t think BC is stupid, however.
————————————————————
I can’t see him being allowed to walk, either. Basically, if he’s healthy and back to being Wang, he’d be replacing Pettitte in the rotation. I really like having two left handers, but, at this time, nobody’s ready. That would be quite a rotation. Of all of the pitchers, only Burnett and Chamberlain are similar. That’s where NYY has it on other staffs….none of the rotation pitchers are similar.
Erica – always OPPC
October 21st, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Has anyone actually tried a black taco? They look kind of gross to me
As good or better than your normal TB taco.
Radio annoucers (Campbell) talked about Cit Bank Ball park but of course compared it to Yankee Stadium
Abdababdaserser
October 21st, 2009 at 9:00 pm
The black taco commercial cracks me up because it is so bad you remember it.
*****
Do you folks don’t have the Black Eyed peas song from the DirectTV commercial perpetually stuck in your heads????
Posada’s baserunning mistake was obviously inexcusable. But I don’t understand why Cano stopped short? Even if both end up touching, only one would be out, right? Sorry if this was already answered.
Philly fans are the worst fans ever. Why are they so angry ?
Uncle Ellsworth (much ado about nothing)
October 21st, 2009 at 9:01 pm
Erica – always OPPC
October 21st, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Has anyone actually tried a black taco? They look kind of gross to me
As good or better than your normal TB taco.
*****
Taco bell beef actually frightens me. If I go TB, I either get chicken or the always a good time, bean burrito
“Black taco…”
with pepper-jack sauce
The way I see it, the Yankees have nothing to lose and more to gain (even if it’s just good will because the players seem them “doing right by” CMW) by trying to work out a deal with Chien Ming Wang. I certainly hope they do, anyway.
E
Cano showed an inexplicable lack of baseball knowledge.
mick, I do remember that. I sent in a complaint to Fox regarding the way that was handled and how, at the very least, the bias should not be allowed by a professional announcer who has been doing it as long as McCarver has.
I really do feel that the media has decided they want replay no matter what. Just think of how many times they talk about it and show it. I think they believe it will give something extra to help fill in the game banter.
“He is a number 2 at best”
Who said Wong was a #1? He is not.
Plenty of teams would take him as a #2.
Took two innings, but the pitchers have settled down
Cano showed an inexplicable lack of baseball knowledge.
******
No!!!!!! He was doing his best statue imitation
Yes Padilla looking better. Hope this goes 7.
jennifer
October 21st, 2009 at 9:00 pm
If you don’t like what Sam is writing why read it?
————————————————————
Somebody has snuck into daddy’s office at home when the babysitter wasn’t looking. That’s his nornal act.
I think it’s silly to not make use of the technology, but it has to be incorporated the right way.
What’s the right way? Well, I would suggest having an extra umpire in the press box (he/she could be the official scorer, also). At the discretion of the umpires – the crew on the field or the one upstairs if something is obvious – the replay would be used to support/overturn a call. And there would be no arguing allowed, just as their isn’t for ball-strike calls. And the check would have to be fast, say within 30-60 seconds, because Joe Girardi is right, you can’t disrupt the flow of the game. That’s why arguing the call wouldn’t be allowed.
Wouldn’t use it on ball-strikes, because 1)you can’t tell 3-dimensions and 2)the games would last forever. And I wouldn’t limit the number of reviews; if the goal is to get it right, then get it right regardless of whatever mistakes occurred before it.
Just my two cents. But use it as a tool to help the umpires, not a end in itself.
Erica, I get that commercial a lot, but it really doesn’t register much with me.
The ones I can’t stand are the BlackBerry and Macys commercials that use the Beatles songs. It just irks me that the Jackson estate sold the rights to use those songs for commercials. I guess its the era I come from.
abdab
Not to mention the sponsors. Could you imagine, “This replay of the disputed call is brought to you by Levitra.”
Oh, and the replay has to be clear cut; otherwise the call on the field stands.
World Series Ticket Question
Is there any way to get a hard ticket reprinted? I can’t seem to track down a seller that is selling hard tickets, only those damn e-tickets. Hope I actually get to use whatever ticket I can get.
Abdababdaserser
October 21st, 2009 at 9:07 pm
Erica, I get that commercial a lot, but it really doesn’t register much with me.
The ones I can’t stand are the BlackBerry and Macys commercials that use the Beatles songs. It just irks me that the Jackson estate sold the rights to use those songs for commercials. I guess its the era I come from.
*****
It irks me too and I am not from that era
“Philly fans are the worst fans ever. Why are they so angry ?”
You would be too if you lived anywhere near Philadelphia.
I don’t think there’s any chance they bring Wang back and I think Pettitte resigns for one year.
Wang could never get on track this year recovering from the foot…what makes you think he’ll be any better after major shoulder surgery?
He’s pitched his last game in a Yankee uniform.
Of course McClellan wasn’t even watching to see if Swisher left early. It was a corrupt call.
They figure out something to bring back Wang. Good pitching is at a premium, and, even though it’s a risk, if he’s right he’s tremendous. Also, it will help the Yanks continue to market in Taiwan, China, and the Far East.
Black eye.
Yep, Wang offers a completely different look. He also has a great deal of variety in his arm.
Doreen, remember when Wang returned and Alex rushed to embrace him in the clubhouse?
The Yankees know how valuable he is.
miggs -
It may be so that Wang won’t recover. I just think that because of how things unfolded this season, the Yankees should offer Wang the chance to rehab “on their dime.” If he makes it back, the Yankees are winners. If he doesn’t, it doesn’t cost them a lot, and I think the gain respect.
OK, I must had missed it. What’s this about Manny and a shower?
“If you don’t like what Sam is writing why read it?”
Your stupidity is charming.
They’re going to pay him $5 million or more to rehab his shoulder and “hope” he comes back and regains his 2007 form?
They weren’t going to sign him to a FA contract anyway.
There’s no such thing as “doing right” for an injured player due $5 million, especially one pitching like crap before his latest injury.
Cash will cut the cord and I fully support that decision.
Nobody thought that Posada would be ready by Opening Day this year, much less throwing out runners as well as he ever did. Nobody expected Rivera to be what he was this year, either after shoulder surgery. He was as good as ever.
Bodhi -
I do.
I’m hopeful something will be worked out.
If they can take a chance on some unknown kid from Cuba, or either of those two players whose names escape me right now who had surgery and (a reliever and a starter, I believe) in the hopes that they would help them out (Octavio Dotel was one of them), then they can certainly take a chance on a true contributor like Wang is. Add in that he is one of the more popular among the players, I don’t see why they wouldn’t. Some situations transcend business.
Derek Jeter: ““Mentally? I’m not a psychologist, man. You need to ask him. He just seems comfortable. I don’t know what he’s thinking, I don’t want to know. Just leave him alone, that’s the biggest thing. He seems like he’s comfortable, pretty much the whole end of the year and just carried it into the playoffs. I ain’t trying to figure it out, man.”
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blo.....z0UcgzcypM
This says it all JUST LEAVE HIM ALONE!
Isn’t it wierd that Swisher has been called out twice this season for leaving too soon?
Maybe he has a reputation now.
One thing I noticed. He has his foot on the bag rather than against it where he could push off and run.
He rises up when he gets ready to run and gives the appearance of leaving the base, when he is actually still on it.
The ump might be seeing this peripherally , giving him the impression he left too soon.
Either that or Hunter made it easy for him to make the “makeup” call. Like Hunter knew if he left too soon. Bogus.
Joe, the problem is that no one seems to take into consideration the more difficult calls.
On some, the “dead ball” calls, such as a pick off move, caught stealing, making it to a base before a tag are easy to correct without them changing the pace and rhythm of the game.
I posted this earlier today about the foul/fair call. Yes, the Mauer fair ball that was ruled foul is an easy one. However, what happens when the ball doesn’t bounce out of play? What if it bounced off the wall and into a corner? Different runners could feasibly end up on a different base, it also is dependent on who is in the outfield. It also doesn’t take into account the player trying to stretch the play.
I am sure that there will be replay if for no other reason than MLB will want to stop the continuous barrage of complaints from the media about the calls. Just like they did with the HR calls. Notice how this year there have been very few HR calls reviewed? In the season they were pushing it as their agenda they made an issue about a lot of them.
The other thing that will come up once they get their way with the replay for other calls will be the time it takes for each pitch. Then there will be a time clock issue. They will talk about it will speed up the game.
Manny was reading this blog and saw how much good luck the Yankees had when Erica took an ingame shower. He figured that if it worked for a little Jersey girl, it would work for a multi-millionaire like him.
Wow, I’m drawing a blank.
GB7, who was the right-handed soft tosser we signed who was coming back from rehab who gave up that once-in-his-lifetime-never-to-occur-again opposite field homer to Belhorn in 2004 ALCS? He went to Philadelphia.
What’s his name?
Black dress
Is it Lieber, Bodhi?
OK, I must had missed it. What’s this about Manny and a shower?
DON’T WORRY
I found out on my own
Come on GB, give me a break.
Posada is a catcher and Mo had minor surgery.
Wang was a mess BEFORE his injury. He’s supposed to come back and be vintage Wang? If I’m a betting man I fold that hand.
Cash is cold and calculating and its time to move on. I love Wang but its over, at least in a Yankee uniform.
$5 million on the chance he MAY return at some point next year? And even if he returns is it going to be batting practice again?
The clincher is the fact he’s a FA after 2010. They have no interest in signing him to a long term deal.
Can’t live in the past and by the time Wang rehabs the earliest he’ll be able to return will be a full 24 months since he was last an effective pitcher (pre-foot injury).
Cut the dead weight and move on. Resign Andy for a year and keep grooming Joba and Hughes.
Hamels is at 76 pitches after 4, CC was barely over 30.
TY Doreen, that’s the guy.
We had him in his comeback year.
I think if we took a chance with his arm, we do roll the dice for Wang. The payoff obviously would be much greater.
Doreen
October 21st, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Bodhi -
I do.
I’m hopeful something will be worked out.
If they can take a chance on some unknown kid from Cuba, or either of those two players whose names escape me right now who had surgery and (a reliever and a starter, I believe) in the hopes that they would help them out (Octavio Dotel was one of them), then they can certainly take a chance on a true contributor like Wang is. Add in that he is one of the more popular among the players, I don’t see why they wouldn’t. Some situations transcend business.
————————————————————
They paid Jon Leiber and Octavio Dotel as free agents for two years to rehab and play for one year.
There’s a reason why Veterans Stadium(when it was around) had a jail
Abda – yes, you’re right. There’s going to have to be some umpire discretion here, even making it their decision whether to use it or not.
miggs
just curious why would it be 5 mil?
Lieber was a completely different case.
They gave him a 2 year deal knowing he wouldn’t pitch much if at all the first year.
He was also highly effective before he got hurt, unlike Wang.
Wang is a FA after next year. They have no interest in bringing him back. Its painfully obvious.
mick, Swisher is using the side of the bag almost like a starters block. He is moving forward as he anticipates the catch, but you can see he is watching it the whole time. As it nears being caught he moves forward and starts straightening his push off leg.
I believe that is what the umpires are seeing and using against him, even though I don’t think he is leaving early.
Hunter deked the umpire on that call. I don’t see how McClellan was giving a make up call because he would not have been able to see if the call made on Swisher being safe was a good call or bad call. Even if they showed it on the stadium screen, he wouldn’t be watching that, he is looking at the field.
Padilla was a baaaaad choice.
You don’t think that there’s no stress and wear and tear on a catcher’s arm in every game, between throwing and swinging a bat about 30 times a day? And shoulder surgery on a 39 year old pitcher isn’t that minor.
gb7-
So, do you think they give Wang the same opportunity, considering what he has done for the team? (The two consecutive 19-win years and what looked like going into a third until he got the foot injury.)
Wang made $5 million this year.
Arbitration eligible players don’t get pay cuts.
Its going to cost them $5 million minimum to keep him for one year.
He’s coming off major shoulder surgery and has no guarantee of playing in 2010. Combine that with his horrendous 2009 campaign and its an easy decision. Its over.
Stop getting sentimental over a guy with chronic shoulder issues who hasn’t been good in a long time.
Padilla came back down to earth.
You don’t just let go a former two-time 19 game winner. Just outright releasing him at the end of the year for nothing would be a stupid FO move. Especially since he’ll probably sign with a NL team and thrive in an quadruple-A climate.
Bring him back and see what he has. If he shows any value, then trade him and fill up a need or add some depth. Or if Joba and/or Hughes get injured or struggle enough to be sent to AAA, you have a solid starter to take their place.
Cashman may be cold and calculating, but he’s not an idiot.
Trusting Padilla to save your season is real bad. It reminds me of Kevin Brown game 7.
How stupid can the ump be to think that Hunter could see Swisher leaving early when he should be concerned with watching the ball land in the glove and concerned with throwing it in.
I know everyone is watching the NLCS, but I thought it was my public duty to tell everyone Ghostbusters is on AMC
“I know everyone is watching the NLCS, but I thought it was my public duty to tell everyone Ghostbusters is on AMC”
Ghostbusters, FTW!!!
GreenBeret7
October 21st, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Manny was reading this blog and saw how much good luck the Yankees had when Erica took an ingame shower. He figured that if it worked for a little Jersey girl, it would work for a multi-millionaire like him.
****
Correct. Except I am no Jersey girl
GB you’re losing all credibility comparing Mo’s shoulder with Wang.
Wang has had chronic shoulder issues and had major rotator cuff surgery this year. Mo had a minor arthroscopic procedure done.
The main point you’re missing is that Mo was awesome before his surgery. Wang stunk.
Just let it go.
Like I said, Vicente Padilla is an average pitcher – at best. Even that is being kind.
Two above the norm performances in one postseason doesn’t change that.
Hard to beat the best offensive team of the last decade in the National League with Randy Wolf and Vicente Padilla.
Looks like we’re not gonna get a chance to face Torree. It would have been the ultimate in drama and a great WS matchup. The Phillies scare me. They go to right field so well. I could see them launching a few at the Stadium. Playing in two bandboxes is going to make for a very high scoring World Series in my mind. This is going to be an all out war the way I see it playing out.
He may agree to a short-term deal. Who else is going to take the risk and give him a multi-year money? If they did so, I’m sure we’d determine what he’s worth to us and then top it, if we were so inclined.
He says he wants to be a Yankee. He has a level of comfort here.
And how is that so different from offering a kid slot money who has a history of arm troubles?
At least if this guy bounces back, we know he can get out ML hitters.
Padilla,sigh so willing to hand the PHILLIES the series.
miggs, the thing is Wang wouldn’t get a multi-year deal no matter what the Yankees do.
Wang was having problems, mainly from him not being strong enough in his lower half because of what the Yankees told him to do. They also brought him back up early because of need, before he should have been.
I really don’t know what will happen with him, but the Yankees might be careful because of Wang’s status in Taiwan. They have a big fanbase there because of him, and that would probably cover the cost of giving him a contract.
Its not only what Wang might do for the team but the larger business they are looking to generate. Taiwan is a market that the Yankees own, that is all thanks to Wang. They also talked about setting up baseball camps there.
I like Wang but what we need in the rotation is more power pitchers. Power pitching wins in October, which explains why the Yankees pitching has been lights out. Wang was horrible in the 2007 postseason, he looked so scared.
miggs,
they could easily dfa him and sign him to a lieber like deal. i don’t think it’s been decided yet. cashman is in stealth mode again, he’ll have som surprises.
miggs -
You seem to be very cold-hearted and possibly a little forgetful. Wang was very effective until the foot injury.
He was not effective when he began this season. However, he was getting it together when the Yankees curtailed his rehab prematurely, which may or may not have contributed to the shoulder injury. And yes, I do know that he had prior shoulder injury.
I don’t understand how you can say Wang was not an effective pitcher or, rather, that he hadn’t been one for a “long time.”
Now, it is possible that the Yankees look at the situation and figure that, no, it’s not a good idea to bring Wang back. And from a business point of view you could not really blame them. But there is sometimes something to be said for a touch of sentimentality.
I don’t want Wang back merely for sentimental reasons. I think he’s worth given a chance to rehab and come back for this team because he was a good pitcher AND a quality person.
I would have chose Kershaw to start this game over Padilla. Can’t put your season in the hands of a journey-man.
Ken
Good pitching stops good hitting. And the Yankees have the best ERA of the postseason rotations. The Phillies won’t be scoring much against our pitchers. Second, the Phillies are facing weak pitching of late which is why they have been scoring a lot of runs.
miggs, there was reason for Wang to be struggling before the surgery on his shoulder. It also was talked about how the Yankees treatment on him on rehab helped to cause the shoulder injury. Wang never really came back from the foot injury.
abdab
check the replay on swisher. he clearly has his foot on top of the bag. no way he is pushing off it. he should be told to push off. maybe you can write another letter.
jennifer
hunter decoyed posada into thinking he was about to catch cano’s double and jorge only got to 3rd from 2nd.
he also screamed he was safe at 1st when tex supposedly came off 1st and there was no way he was even looking at the play. gotta watch him, he’s tricky.
“You don’t just let go a former two-time 19 game winner. Just outright releasing him at the end of the year for nothing would be a stupid FO move. Especially since he’ll probably sign with a NL team and thrive in an quadruple-A climate.
Bring him back and see what he has. If he shows any value, then trade him and fill up a need or add some depth. Or if Joba and/or Hughes get injured or struggle enough to be sent to AAA, you have a solid starter to take their place.
Cashman may be cold and calculating, but he’s not an idiot.”
You people crack me up. John Smoltz is a former 19 game winner and he’s not recovering from major shoulder surgery, why not sign him too?
They aren’t “releasing” him. They’re non-tendering him because they’re not paying 5 million to a pitcher with the worst ERA in the league in 2008 coming off major shoulder surgery.
This isn’t rocket science.
You don’t pay 5 million to “see what he has” especially if you may not “see what he has” until August or September.
I’ll bet anyone on here a meal at NYY Steak depending upon whether or not they resign Wang. I’m that sure it ain’t gonna happen. Not for 5 million.
You don’t want to “lose him for nothing”. What team in their right mind would give up any players for a pitcher who stunk making 5 million coming off major shoulder surgery?
Some of you really have no clue.
Doreen
October 21st, 2009 at 9:26 pm
gb7-
So, do you think they give Wang the same opportunity, considering what he has done for the team? (The two consecutive 19-win years and what looked like going into a third until he got the foot injury.)
————————————————————
Yeah, I really do, Doreen. It’s a $5 mil or so gamble, but, certainly no worse than $46 mil wasted on Igawa. I’m sure that NYY’s also carrying an insurance policy on him and their other pitchers. Pitching, especially good, young pitching is hard to get for $5 mil. If he comes back at mid season and wins about 8 games, he’s worth it. I’m sure that Boston would have no problems taking a shot at him. Nothing would hurt worse than having him become CM Wang again, in a Boston uniform.
He’s walking the pitcher?? to load the bases??
Hey, can anyone read me?
He wasn’t effective because of the foot.
He never really threw the ball well in Spring Training. They pushed to hard to get him up to speed, and he got hurt.
You make it sound like Wang was on the decline before the injury.
Any way, the Yankees are not going to just shut the door. The guy won 38 games for them and can friggin’ pitch. Not like he’s some middling pitcher. I know Lieber won 14 games, but he’s not in the same class as Wang.
It’s worth the risk, which is just money, after all.
I am getting the feeling that because Wang lost 2 playoff games, there are people – ahem – who will always say he stunk.
well, he escaped that ignominy
Padilla out after 3.1 innings. Dodgers humg their season on $100.00 pick up.
Plus, I think Wang and his type of pitching are a nice conterbalance to the power pitchers they otherwise employ.
Boston just signed a couple of reclaimation projects this year for $5 mil a piece. People on this board, including those against signing Wang, are drooling and falling all over themselves for the last year to sign Ben Sheets. They will be again, as soon as the WS is over.
Ken, with the way that the Yankee pitchers have been stingy with giving up HR’s compared to what we are seeing with the Phillies pitching, I feel pretty comfortable with the match up.
So many of those long balls the Phillies have are pitches in the meat of the plate. If the Yankee pitching continues as it has all post season so far, it will be tough for the Phillies.
Just look at how they have been holding down the Angels, who are a really good hitting team.
If the Phils take this game I will win that prediction. I had the Yankees sweeping so I didn’t win that one.
More than the prediction for me will be the joy of seeing the Dodgers not go as far as the Yankees (yes I already have the Yankees in the world series) and the joy of seeing Joe Girardi given the respect I feel he has earned and not being unfavorably compared to the other Joe because he’s never done anything in a postseason – of course let’s not take into account the fact that he is a new manager, relatively speaking!
Isn’t there some come of karmic “closure’ for Alex to do what he’s doing…right in Boras’ face? I mean you can see him watching on every replay of Alex’ swings!
Congratulations to the City of Philadelphia for winning their second straight National League Championship.
Doreen
October 21st, 2009 at 9:37 pm
I am getting the feeling that because Wang lost 2 playoff games, there are people – ahem – who will always say he stunk
__________________________________________________________
If A-Rod’s recent performance has taught us anything, it’s that we shouldn’t judge players solely by their past postseason struggles.
Especially with Wang, who has such a small sample size and only struggled in 1 playoff series. Regardless of how Wang pitched, we probably weren’t winning that series anyway because of our inability to hit, but that’s another story…
I contend the Phillies are a better team than the Angels. They scare me. They go to right field very well. Their strength doesnt play well with our short porch. I really am worried the Phillies. The Phillies have a line-up that is much more imposing than the Angels.
Doreen-
You’re not seeing my point. I LOVE Wang. I was one of the ones defending him when the “Wang is not an ace” argument was raging on here 2 years ago.
But its almost like there’s just been too much going on with him between the injuries and the ineffectiveness.
2009 opened up my eyes to the fact that Wang is mentally frail. His confidence is shot. His stuff is diminished. And he’s damaged goods. Its just time to move on.
The odds of him returning to 2007 form are slim when you factor in his injury history and his amazing ineffectiveness this year. You think another year off plus rehabbing a major shoulder injury will make him return as a more effective pitcher? That’s not a bet I want to have money on.
I’m sure the Yankees won’t want to risk 5 million on it either.
Scared of the Wall -
Oh, I agree with you.
Did anyone feel Victorino was leaning into the plate when the ball hit him? He’s going to be pesky when we face this team. Im nervous. They have long ball potential and small ball potential.
The Phillies are an American League team playing in the National League.
The Dodgers have no starting pitching, of course they win against them.
Wait till they play an American League team WITH PITCHING (us).
Stop making excuses Sam. The replay clearly showed that McClelland wasn’t even looking at Swisher’s foot as it left the bag. He was looking at centerfield and saw Swisher’s upper body begin to move as his foot remained on the bag.
Bad job, the replay does NOT lie. That is complete b.s.
“Did anyone feel Victorino was leaning into the plate when the ball hit him? He’s going to be pesky when we face this team. Im nervous. They have long ball potential and small ball potential.”
Let’s get past the Los Angeles California Angels of Anaheim California Los Angeles first.
Ken, I’m not nervous at all about the Phils. I don’t think there’s a team that beats the Yankees when the Yankees are playing their game – and that happens to be more often than not.
JasonR, I hate to congratulate the city of Philadelphia. They are known to hate New Yorkers and Im sure they will be talking a lot of trash against NY. The Eagles and their fans have ticked me off for decades. I havent had to deal with the Phillies because they are in the other league. But now its looking like we are on a head on colliision with them. Philadelphia is an obnoxious city.
Trisha-
I’m on the other side of the Wang argument now than I was 2 years ago, and I’m getting killed…..LOL
Did anyone feel Victorino was leaning into the plate when the ball hit him? He’s going to be pesky when we face this team. Im nervous.Ken October 21st, 2009 at 9:43 pm
I contend the Phillies are a better team than the Angels. They scare me. They go to right field very well. Their strength doesnt play well with our short porch. I really am worried the Phillies.
————————————————————
Betsy?
Its not only what Wang might do for the team but the larger business they are looking to generate. Taiwan is a market that the Yankees own, that is all thanks to Wang. They also talked about setting up baseball camps there.
====
That’s a good point, too. It might give the Yanks pause to cut Matsui loose next year. Lot of Japanese dollars at stake.
“Isn’t there some come of karmic “closure’ for Alex to do what he’s doing…right in Boras’ face?”
Closure? He’s his agent so he’s happy he’s doing well.
JasonR
You left out of Orange County
If Philly fans can get a ticket , there should be major fights at the Stadium.
“I’m on the other side of the Wang argument now than I was 2 years ago, and I’m getting killed…..LOL”
Karma’s a blitch, Miggs!
Wang’s “amazing ineffectiveness” was because of injuries and mishandling of the recovery treatment…not because he stunk.
Ken, I’m just trying to reverse jinx them.
Now that I’ve admitted my plan, I have to figure out how to reverse jinx the reverse jinx. Maybe I’ll watch a Campbell’s Chunky Chicken Soup commercial.
miggs -
We can agree to disagree. And I have no real idea what they will do ultimately. I’d hate to see it end this way, though.
The Phillies are the best offensive team in the National League this decade, and quite possibly beyond.
It will take a titanic effort to beat them. The Yankees can certainly do it, but I think it will take seven games for them to do so.
Another year — Another Torre playoff exit (6 in an row)
The dodgers stink! This game is over!
Bases loaded,Sherill comes in,throws 3 straight balls,then 2 strikes,hits the batter,walks in a run.I’m speechless!
Wang’s “amazing ineffectiveness” was because of injuries and mishandling of the recovery treatment…not because he stunk.
–
But, what if you’re wrong?
7th game matchup could be Pedro vs CC or Andy.
Can you chant with me, “Who’s Your Daddy.”
Manny might as well start showering
I’ll probably take the Yankees in 6, though I’m not sure if I’ll go that high. Maybe 5. I’m pretty sure I won’t go with a sweep because the Phils are playing well and I don’t think it is very realistic (I know that’s never stopped me before, ha ha)
I’d love to see the Phillies fail. If I had to rank fans in terms of obnoxiousness/crassness/jerks I would say.
1) Boston 2) Philadelphia 3) Mets 4) Cubs 5) Baltimore
Come on people….
Whoooooooooooo’s Your Dadddddddddy.
Erica?
Pfffffffft. Band Box.
philly-bandbox
There were ton of Philly fans at YS during that 3 game series. That better not be the case come next Wednesday.
I’m noticing Manny tamed his “do” for the playoffs.
I missed the Manny shower details. Was he removed from the game early and showered before the game was over?
Not sure there’s that much of a vested interest in Rodriguez from Boras anymore. He’ll never get another contract to play ball, and I don’t think that he’s involved with any endorsements. He’s made his 5%.
Tonny Lasorda looks like he chugged a bottle of Nyquil.
why is orlando hudson in torre’s doghouse?
Hammels looks like he is tiring in the 5th.
“Tonny Lasorda looks like he chugged a bottle of Nyquil.”
Also, Tommy.
Tommy LaSorda or Tony LaRussa make up your mind, JasonR
miggs, I haven’t been following the Wang debate (I have no difficulty scrolling by posts, no matter how many, if I am not interested in the topic; I think it beats complaining that I’m tired of the topic, cough cough)
I’m not sure of your position on Wang vs. anybody else’s position. I love the guy and would love to see him be able to stay healthy and remain effective. I think he has the mettle to be a solid pitcher as long as he can stay healthy.
Doreen
October 21st, 2009 at 9:55 pm
I’m noticing Manny tamed his “do” for the playoffs.
I missed the Manny shower details. Was he removed from the game early and showered before the game was over?
————————————————————
He was just copying Erica’s good luck charm….7th inning shower.
The Phillies team last year was a better all around team. This year they should have had the best record. Their bats have had times of struggles against good pitching. The Dodgers pitching in this series doesn’t look very imposing, and they aren’t pitching like they had in the first round.
CC and Pettitte can be quite effective against the Phillies. The thing is the Yankee pitching probably got a lot better at keeping the ball in the park because of how Yankee Stadium was playing. The Phillies have power threats, no doubt, but the Yankees pitchers have been doing pretty well against good line ups.
Of course the Yankees need to close the door on the Angels first, which I hope they do very soon.
cant have it both ways jason
It’s a good thing the Phillies bullpen has been so great. Philly fans have nothing to worry about.
GB, that is my take on Boras/Alex as well.
“why is orlando hudson in torre’s doghouse?”
Hasn’t said or done anything controversial and therefore hasn’t provided fodder for Torre’s book on the Dodgers?
abdab..
Last year the phillies had Meyers, a stud at the top of rotation with a healthy Hamels.
Ken, given how the Baltimore fans were on Teixeira when their team wasn’t even really in on the talks with him, I would move that city’s fans up further on your list.
Hudson’s been hurt a lot over the last month and a half, he stopped hitting and Bellard was picked up and started hitting.
Maybe if Wang was 3-4 years away from free agency then I could see them bringing him back.
Its just that Cash was leery of the shoulder BEFORE this latest injury which is why a long-term contract was never discussed and the front office toyed with the idea of trading him.
He suffered a season ending injury running the bases for crying out loud!
He has a bad shoulder, has already had TJ surgery, and busted his foot running the bases.
And he’s no spring chicken either, he’s already 30.
The writing is on the wall IMO.
Dorreen-
Manny turns soap on a rope to dope on a soap
http://m.si.com/news/tr/tr/det.....nsilive10i
Doreen
He was pulled for defense and went in to shower instead of staying on the bench. They were winning when he went in and had lost by the time he came out.
Media got on him that he should have been on the bench cheering his teammates.
JA Happ looks impressive right now. Nothing to worry about Phils fans. Enjoy the time off before the World Series.
As Manny was replaced by Juan Pierre after Dodgers’ 9th for defense.
He took a shower during Broxton’s bottom 9th meltdown.
Torre started Ronnie Belliard, a guy who had a terrible .670 OPS with the Nationals, over Orlando Hudson based on 24 games where Belliard found lightning in a bottle.
Hudson was and is the better all-around player.
Of course, this is the same guy who’s batted A-Rod and Matt Kemp in the 8th spot, and has used Chad Billingsley – arguably their best pitcher – for a grand total of 3.1 innings this postseason.
(Sorry for the repost. Did not see the new thread.)
Erin
October 21st, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Bronx Bombers Girl
October 21st, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Going to cook my Mom’s birthday dinner. Be back later for more insight and camaraderie.
***************
What are you making for your mom?
***************
Erin,
I made white rice with green peas, pork chops with my own Portuguese flair LOL and a mixed green salad on the side
Ken
Why would you be worried about a team ?
Honestly the Angels have better pitching than the Phillies and the Angels have been no match so far. Pitching wins in October and we have it. You act like hitting dictates the tempo of the game when it doesn’t. We have better pitching than the Phils, and our lineup is similar to theirs.
Can’t wait for Torre’s tell-all book on Manny after Manny’s contract runs out in 2010. the never before told stories manny-being-manny should be priceless, except Torre will charge a price for telling them.
JasonR actually I didn’t think Happ had looked so good in the NLCS.
Miggs is most likely right in saying that Wang will not be re-signed. That doesn’t mean that us fans can’t say we want him back next season.
Thanks, pat. I kind of put two and two together and figured that was what happened, but didn’t know for sure.
Manny would be a lot more imposing in this situation if he was still on his pregnancy medication.
Man, I sure could use a corona after watching THAT commercial
Manny back from shower duty.
Gotta root for the Dodgers here.
The longer this series goes the better.
“Manny would be a lot more imposing in this situation if he was still on his pregnancy medication.”
I keep thinking that Manny karma catches up with him at moments like this. If there is justice, it will…
Torre has been a bad manager since the 2003 World Series. The Dodgers aren’t going to win anything with him at the helm.
Thanks to you, too, Bodhi.
Hmm, what’s Manny gonna do here?
Someone said Lidge made some adjustment after Stairs saw something.
Not sure what it was, but he wasn’t hiding the ball well.
Anybody know any more?
Not that it probably means much but Pettitte and CC pitched well against the Phillies this year.
Burnett did not have a good game. Gave up 5 runs in 6 innings.
miggs – GTLU Reigning Champion
October 21st, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Gotta root for the Dodgers here.
The longer this series goes the better.
miggs -
On that point we certainly agree.
Im worried about the Phillies because they scare me. Im glad you are able to reconcile in your mind that the Phillies arent as good as the Yankees but from what Ive seen with my eyes the Phillies will be a formidable opponent. Charlie Manuel seems to be pushing all the right buttons as well.
There is no doubt that the Phillies have a good team. They can give any team facing them a run for their money. I just think that the Yankees overall are better. The Yankee HR threat is higher than their lineup (even though the Phillies aren’t slouches with the bats). Given their pitching against the Yankee lineups I like the match ups.
That doesn’t mean the Phillies can’t win the series. Any team can if they are playing well or the other team isn’t.
I think the Dodgers are a better team, but they have not played well in this series. It seems they peaked too soon and then started falling off. Neither team looks as strong as either the Angels or the Yankees in my opinion. Then again, I am biased.
Trevor, at what point in the season were the games played. Just curious.
YES!!!!!!!!!!! Manny karma kicks in. Torre karma should conspire to have the series end tonight.
LOL at Manny’s “Hey look a baseball! Oh crap, that means I have to run!” facial expression.
Ken,
I respect the Phillies’ lineup and they do have 3 LHP to throw at us.
That said, we can take as much advantage of their park as they can take of ours.
We’ll beat them, but we won’t be easy street.
new thread
Ken, it is certainly your right to worry about the Phillies, just as it is our right not to. It’s all good if you’re a Yankee fan. You worry, we won’t, and we’ll all cheer on the Yankees together.
Okey dokey?
Manny looks like a shell of his former self now that he can’t take female fertility drugs…
Manny looks terrible this year.
When the Phillies are facing a team playing like the Dodgers are in this series, they are going to look good.
I actually would prefer to see the Phillies win it tonight if they are the ones who are going on to the WS. If the Yankees close it out tomorrow it means the same amount of off time. If the Yankees lose (I hope not) it still is OK because it means less off time for the Yankees so their bat timing should be better.
miggs – GTLU Reigning Champion
October 21st, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Gotta root for the Dodgers here.
The longer this series goes the better.
====
Absolutely. But the Dodgers seem a bit over matched.
“Trevor, at what point in the season were the games played. Just curious”
Late May. I had thought it was June.
Pettitte went 7 and gave up 2runs. CC went 8 and gave up 3runs.
Ken
They will be a tough opponent but the Yankees are better than them plain and simple. Why are you scared ? Man Up !
Why ? Because they are beating a Dodgers team with no pitching in the rotation ?
The Yankees have better pitching and pitching wins in October. Our starters are on a roll with the best ERA of the playoff teams.
Trevor, I think you’ll see a better version of AJ than the one you saw in May.
Ken, it is certainly your right to worry about the Phillies, just as it is our right not to. It’s all good if you’re a Yankee fan. You worry, we won’t, and we’ll all cheer on the Yankees together.
Okey dokey?
——————————————————
Really, is that you, Betsy?
Methinks Ken is a troll. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
I don’t see any major benefit to have this series go any longer. It is a double-edged sword because it gives the Phillies (should they win) more time to stay in the groove.
I say get it over with tonight.
Scared of the Wall October 21st, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Manny looks like a shell of his former self now that he can’t take female fertility drugs…
—————————————————–
Funny!
“Methinks Ken is a troll. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.”
Probably a Phils fan getting ready?
your post to him/her was funny
Im not a troll – Im legitimately worried about the Phillies. Doesnt make me any less of a fan. This Phillies team is a better team than the Angels. I have a healthy respect for them.
“I keep thinking that Manny karma catches up with him at moments like this. If there is justice, it will…”
karma would be certain people getting laryngitis .
Well I figured that we get by now that he is nervous. I didn’t want him to feel he had to say it five more times for us to get it!
thats why i asked if he was betsy
“karma would be certain people getting laryngitis .”
Wah!
No Posada catching, no Mr. Torre in the world series. I understand your lashing out, since your “managerial moves” never materialized, while mine did. I know it’s gotta kill ya.
Go ahead. Have a lash.
The umps need to swallow their pride and ask for help from another crew member who might of had a better view, Tim McClelland like other other crew chiefs (ie Joe West) will rarely ask for help.
Testing….
I know I am late on this thread… BUT..
Joe from Long Island on October 21st, 2009 at 9:06 pm said
“… Wouldn’t use it on ball-strikes, because 1)you can’t tell 3-dimensions and 2)the games would last forever…. ”
First of all, the multiple cameras watching balls-strikes from numerous angles actually DO TELL 3-dimensions. The “trick” is not in determining the position and path of the ball, but instead it is in determining the exact top and bottom of the strike zone for each batter, which requires a person to plug in those figures.
As far as extending the length of games, I think using a process somewhat like the one used in tennis would avoid that problem. Basically, this means the umpire calls every pitch as they do today. Then, each team gets __ number of challenges per game (or maybe __ number of pitcher challenges and __ number of batter challenges per game). The system would already know “ball or strike” and the home plate umpire would press a button in his pocket, and immediately get a message in his ear, and correct the call if needed. I don’t believe seeing a technology-enhanced video replay of the pitch would be necessary. My suggestion would add only a few seconds (3-5) for each challenge, and perhaps just a minute per game.
And the reputation of umpires would grow immensely!