Short stuff
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- November
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It is certainly easy enough to kill Joe Girardi for going with A.J. Burnett on short rest last night, and there are plenty of people already criticizing him for (likely) going to Andy Pettitte on short rest in Game 6. I just don’t happen to be one of them.
Truth is, Girardi had little choice. Could he have pitched Chad Gaudin in Game 5? He could have. As Chad and I talked about in the live chat last week, there was certainly the option to start Gaudin with the bullpen ready behind him since today is an off day and everyone would have rest. I think that option would have been a reasonable choice.
But I can’t go crazy on Girardi for going with Burnett (and Pettitte). Considering the quality of the Yankees bullpen, opting to use his best pitchers as much as he can in the games that matter most is more than defensible.
Does Burnett’s failure mean Pettitte will follow suit? Hardly. Pettitte is 3-1 with a 2.80 ERA in five career postseason starts on short rest. You know what game is included in that? The one everyone knows as the greatest of his career: Game 5 of the 1996 World Series (8 1/3 shutout innings against Atlanta). Game 2 of the ‘03 World Series is in there, too (8 2/3, one unearned run vs. Florida).
If Chien-Ming Wang was healthy, Girardi probably wouldn’t be using three starters. If Joba Chamberlain had been lights out in that role all season, he might not either. But he is. And it is a reasonable a decision as any. Now he just needs the players to deliver.
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on Tuesday, November 3rd, 2009 at 1:09 pm by Sam Borden.
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Chad Jennings
Josh Thomson
I agree with you Sam. Pettitte is a few years older now but I have faith in him on 3 days rest. And the advantage the Yankees have had with going with AJ and Andy on 3 days rest was that Sabathia was always in the back pocket for Game 7.
A voice of reason. Thank you!
“MLBONFOX Bob Klapisch: ‘Title hopes not so bright for #Yanks after Game 5’ http://j.mp/1cSSW8 #Yankees #Phillies”
How do they have jobs???? That line right there is their job description. They are supposed to question the Yankees. The media, and I noticed this all the time with Pete’s questions, are meant to try and get in the Yankees heads. Why would you think that previous year is in the current Yankees, even those who were not here then? Because the entire media, being anti-NY, has the goal of trying to put the pressure on them in hopes they fail.
From what I have seen though, these 3 guys, Sam Chad and Josh, even if one or all of them are Yanks fans, are absolutely unbiased and provide great information. They also do not seem to be trying to stir up memories of a previous year.
does anyone think the boss will be at game 6 or 7?
The pitchers have more than done their share so far. It’s time for the hitters take control of a game.
walter,
That’s interesting. Players telling the media that the pitchers should hold the line.
You don’t hear the pitchers telling the players to stop leaving small villages on the bases.
Anyway, good thoughts, Chad.
Home is where the heart is, and I think they get it done. As long as Andy doesn’t get spooked by an early homerun, I think he’ll be fine.
andy does not have to be great, he needs to be good. 5 or 6 innings 3 runs or less. the yankees will light up pedro…
acting as if chad gaudin is a good option for the world series is hard to take seriously……how about jarret wright or maybe they can start ed yarnell……….
Mike,
Francessa just said and I quote, “I am a fat slob who drinks Diet Coke so I can appear as if I want to lose weight. However, I am a shameful disgrace, being on a television/radio program where children will get the idea that obesity is alright. I am not a Yankees fan, I have lead all these Yankees fans over the years into believing that I am. How, I dont know. I have never had anything good to say about the Yankees, the team that happens to lead the sports world in championships won.”
Home is where the heart is, and I think they get it done. As long as Andy doesn’t get spooked by an early homerun, I think he’ll be fine.
================
Don’t see that happening after he pulled it together in Game 3.
the media in general are all dopes. listen to mitch williams on mlb network what a homer fool.
cliff lee was very avg. last night. they act like he is tom seaver in his prime.
pn the cc front look at his #’s in the playoffs they are very good, and he has thrown way more innings then cliff lee. cc is the stopper so all you nervous nellies relax this is not 2004 all over again.
matsui, damon, jeter, arod, are all hitting well. and swisher and a few others are showings some signs of life.
tell tex, look for the offspeed pitch, is this an epiphany to him????
I pretty much agree with this post, but I have a question about last night. If Girardi didn’t use Gaudin last night after AJ, then when is he going to use him? He’s supposed to be the long reliever, and that was the perfect opportunity for him to be used, yet he wasn’t used. I don’t get it.
Is anyone with me on this one?
1977 World Series – Yanks split first two games at home; same in 2009 World Series
1977 – Yanks go on the road, take Games 3 and 4; same in 2009
1977 – with chance to clinch on the road, Yanks’ starting pitcher is awful in Game 5 and they go on to lose; same in 2009
1977 – Yanks come back to the Bronx for Game 6 and their big-name superstar, who has been a lightnining rod for controversy and had a love-hate relationship with the fans, steps up with a night for the history books, and the Yanks win the championship
A-Rod, the stage is yours tomorrow night
Another thing before I sign off here. Not to get all “Matt”, but if the Yankees swing for the fences it’ll be a long night tomorrow.
They need to think hard (line drives), not long.
Thank you, SAM, for those reasonable thoughts.
pettitte will not matter. the yankees are going to crush pedro all over yankee stadium.
Good post Sam
I agree with Chad.
Thank you, Sam!
CR9
I saw the title of the article and won’t even bother reading it. The Yankees won 2 of 3 in Philly. That is pretty darn good if you ask me. People seem to forget the Yankees still have the upper hand! They are up 3-2! They have Andy going, he’s done well on short rest in the post season, and they still have CC in their back pocket if it came to that. Both of this guys would grind through the game even if they didn’t have their best stuff. Klap is just playing to the jump off a bridge portion of the Yankees fan base.
from last thread:
“Dr. Cox,
I thought we were talking in the context of the first inning yesterday?
But yeah, they’re going to have to tread very carefully. Nothing over the plate”
M,
No in that context I agree with you. You never walk someone to put the bases loaded with no outs.
However, the way Utley has been killing us, even lefties, I wouldnt be THAT upset if it happened.
Its so awful that this one man is the reason we dont have a ring yet. Think about it. HE is the soul reason.
“If Girardi didn’t use Gaudin last night after AJ, then when is he going to use him?”
They were waiting to see how Pettitte felt today. (He’s still not officially starting tomorrow) If Pettitte says he can’t go, then they give the ball to Gaudin. That’s why he wasn’t the first guy out of the pen last night.
cliff lee on 2 days rest in game 7, yea that is a good bet.
The funniest aspect of Francesa’s career is watching him on Mike’d Up on Sunday night.
He sits there with his slicked back hair and you can just see the makeup caked on his face. His face is a bronze color then he starts swinging his hands around while he’s talking and they’re the most pasty white color you can possibly imagine. Hysterical.
gaudin is there for emergency long relief. only if they have to. they got through with ace and robertson and co.
im less mad with the burnett start as I am with the molina start…..wasted 2 at bats in the game and then posada comes in and has a big hit…..
stuart a
Did you see the headline on cbssports.com? It was like cliff clutch? Um did they see the same pitching performance I did? If AJ was just decent we would have won the game.
Completely agree.
Most people, fans AND media who opine about pitchers throwing on short rest have zero idea how it affects them.
It affects LENGTH (at times) not QUALITYP.
If a guy stinks in the first 2-3 innings of a start, short rest has nothing to do with it.
It affects guys more in going the distance.
Tomorrow night, Andy is going to have a ton of adreneline and rested bullpen.
If the offense can get it going early, they have enough arms to get the ball to Mo.
YanksinCA, thanks for the clarification.
Hopefully, the Yankees can just tee off on Pedro tomorrow night and end this series in fashion.
jen
I agree. We have the upper hand. But I disagree on him playing to the bridge jumping Yankee fans. I feel as though he is trying to spark pressure and nerves and get the same feelings going in the Yankee clubhouse as it was in a previous year. I also believe that the so-called “bridge jumping Yankee fans” are a result of the anti-Yankees media attempting to get in the heads of the Yankees players and maybe succeeding in a previous year.
the good we saw last night was aceves got it back together.
First of all, MIGGS, I am not at your beck and call. I’m not interested in responding to you – and if you don’t know why that is the case, then I’m not interested in explaining it to you. I can have civil discourse with anyone on this board ,but you are not interested in same. If you want to insult me and make cruel comments, I suppose you can feel free to do so – and if it makes you feel better, then go ahead. There’s nothing I can do about it at this point.
Francessa : ” time for the stadium to get loud and rock–it hasn’t been loud all year”
I was at ASDS Game Two and i can tell you how LOUD that place rocked–Alex tying the game in the 9th-Tex winning Homer. what a jerk he is. maybe he should go to some games…
“Tomorrow night, Andy is going to have a ton of adreneline and rested bullpen.”
Not to mention that his could perhaps be Andy’s last start… ever.
Wow, that just hit me.
I hope you’re right, Sam.
But note that those are the stats of a younger man with, most notably, a younger back.
burnett was bad LAST NIGHT, but if Coke didnt give up the 2 solo homers, the end may have been different. its on all of them. burnett is burnett. very good but can be very bad.
“They were waiting to see how Pettitte felt today. (He’s still not officially starting tomorrow) If Pettitte says he can’t go, then they give the ball to Gaudin. That’s why he wasn’t the first guy out of the pen last night.”
If Gaudin pitches tomorrow Girardi should be shot on the spot. No matter what Pettitte says HE IS pitching tomorrow.
“im less mad with the burnett start as I am with the molina start…..wasted 2 at bats in the game and then posada comes in and has a big hit…..”
Just looking for something to be mad at eh? Sam takes away the Burnette angle, so lets go after Molina! (who is in there to catch and play defense, not hit)…no, I’ve got it, let’s go after Kate Hudson! How bout Kurt Russell! he was in the stands last night, must be his fault!
Fing
November 3rd, 2009 at 1:23 pm
1977 World Series – Yanks split first two games at home; same in 2009 World Series
1977 – Yanks go on the road, take Games 3 and 4; same in 2009
1977 – with chance to clinch on the road, Yanks’ starting pitcher is awful in Game 5 and they go on to lose; same in 2009
1977 – Yanks come back to the Bronx for Game 6 and their big-name superstar, who has been a lightnining rod for controversy and had a love-hate relationship with the fans, steps up with a night for the history books, and the Yanks win the championship
A-Rod, the stage is yours tomorrow night
*************
If Alex goes out and has a huge game tomorrow, that will just be too cool!
I have faith in Pettitte giving a good game. However, I am worried about the bats. No use in Pettitte pitching a 1, 2 or even a 3 run game if the Yankees are not hitting. Cano, Tex and Gardner need to be more productive!
I just don’t know why Charlie Manuel is blowing it by not having Cliff Lee pitch Game 6 on 1 day’s rest. After all, Joe Buck told me he is cool, calm, collected and has the right nonchalant attitude to just dominate a lineup over and over again. And he never mentioned the fact that he got ripped for 5 runs, I assume that was just a mistake or pitching to the scoreboard or some such nonsense.
miggs
I would not call Francesa’s “making a living” a career. I would call it a charade.
SJ, couldn’t agree with you more. I think the mediots and fans are forgetting just who is leading this series. I have no interest in listening to Francesca or Kay today – they are just pure doom and gloom. I do expect Pedro to pitch a good game tomorrow, but then I have a boatload of confidence in my team.
As the catcher situation, I think it is all on Joe. He thinks his pitcher needs a personal catcher even if AJ doesn’t……..Given AJ’s June/July performances, I really don’t think Jorge and AJ had THAT much to work out. They just had a bad few games together – which Joe completely blew out of proportion.
Re post
Doesn’t matter whether AJ has 3,4,5 or however many days between stars. When he is not “on” he will give up runs, walks and cannot stop the bleeding. 6 runs given up.
With Andy and CC they can tough it out when they do not have their good stuff. They can limit the damage, AJ cannot. But the Yankees knew what they were getting when they signed AJ. Now they have to live with it.
Yankees will win the Series. Yankees pitching staff is better than the Phillie staff.
cliff lee in these playoffs 5 games 40 1/3 innings in 5 starts great #’s/
CC in the playoffs so far 5 starts 36 1/3 innings anda 1.98 era. CC in line for game 7 if needed.
really is there much difference????
Well said, Sam.
I don’t think Gaudin was ever a serious option to start yesterday. Girardi was probably leaning towards the 3-man rotation all along due to the shakiness of the 4th and 5th starters down the stretch.
Gaudin is a serviceable 5th starter. But 5th starters rarely start in the playoffs. In the playoffs, you go with your best, and that’s what Girardi did.
vin,
Didn’t think of that either. It could be Andy’s last start as a major league pitcher and Yankee if he decides to retire.
He’ll get the job done.
i too look for alex to carry this game, however how much can we really expect from one person? he has done his job all postseason, beyond what anyone expected.
even when he looked bad in games 1 and 2, he adjusted (unlike tex to a changeup, cano to everything, gardner to actually swinging a bat).
This cannot be all on alex.
Betsy-
Come on. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously on this board?
First of all, you’re the one who insulted me first. You resort to name calling like a 12 year old.
Secondly, I responded to your baseless comment with facts and valid points. I’m just asking you to intelligently defend your point. But you CAN’T. So you dismiss my point and try and discredit me more.
I’m sure most posters on here can see that exact point I just made.
“I was at ASDS Game Two and i can tell you how LOUD that place rocked–Alex tying the game in the 9th-Tex winning Homer. what a jerk he is. maybe he should go to some games…”
I was at that game as well and I can completely agree with you. Game 6 of the ALCS, the place rocked as well once the Yankees got to Saunders and got the lead. And, I would say that during the Boston series in August (the 4-game sweep, seems like an eternity ego) the stadium was plenty loud.
The Joe Bucks and Francesa’s of the world want to make it seem like the “crowd is out of it” because it gives them something to talk about when they have no other material. I’m sure someone will reference empty seats in the Legends section tomorrow while glossing over the fact that those people have unlimited access to a freaking bar/restaurant and don’t necessarily have to be sitting down by the field to be at the game and/or make noise.
Neither Andy nor CC were very sharp in their last starts. I’m not nearly as confident about winning the series as I was yesterday.
I’d have thrown Gaudin yesterday and hoped for the best then had AJ go Game 6 at home (where he’s been better) on full rest and have Pettitte available in the pen if needed. Seems like a better gamble.
One point about AJ pitching on short rest that could have argued for using Gaudin in game 4 or 5 was the linkage between the AJ/Molina pairing and the very weak lineup the pairing resulted in when pitching Molina in the NL park.
Had AJ pitched on full rest, the lineup trotted out in the NL for Gaudin would have been stronger, and the lineup behind AJ in the AL park would also have been stronger. So win/win.
If the Yanks truly saw this coming from before the post-season began, they could have pitched Gaudin in the Twins series (I know, some risk there, but IMO not much) to keep him stretched out.
That said, the Yanks probably only needed 5 innings from Gaudin, and just a not terrible start, especially had he pitched against Blanton.
IMO the true culprit in this is Joba, who was probably always ticketed to be the 4th starter in the playoffs until the very end of the season.
A three man rotation and short rest in games 4, 5, 6 and 7 was always a gamble, and we don’t know the outcome yet. It worked in game 4, it didn’t work in game 5. It’s a gamble in game 6, but again we probably only need 5 good innings from Andy. If he can give us that, I think we win in 6.
Does the insultee owe the insultor anything?
I agree with Sam & SJ44.
I grew up at a time when pitchers threw every four days and lasted 8-9 innings throughout the season. The Dodgers initiated the five man rotation because – wait for it – they had five good starters. Other teams immitated them and the five man rotation became standard. Problem is, most teams don’t have five good starters. Anyhow, three days rest ain’t a big deal. Four days between starts is just what everyone is used to nowadays.
cliff lee in these playoffs 5 games 40 1/3 innings in 5 starts great #’s/
CC in the playoffs so far 5 starts 36 1/3 innings anda 1.98 era. CC in line for game 7 if needed.
really is there much difference????
__
Yes. for one, CC has been quality in ALL his starts, and some of them on short rest.
I dont know where you were yesterday, but Lee was not quality. he won because his team scored 8.
7+ 5 ER is NOT a good start.
PLus CC in game 7 on 3 days vs. Lee on 2 days after throwing 110 pitches?
yeah i think that is our advantage but it wont even make it that far.
You can’t lay that on Coke because hitters get pitched differently by pitchers when they have a big lead.
You don’t work hitters as much when you have a 6 run lead.
That’s an easy leap a lot of lazy media members make when analyzing games.
Bottom line is, when your starter puts you in a 6-1 hole on the road in a WS game, its on him and NOBODY else.
Fing
I’m with you on ARod. Time for the big time. If he had got to the plate last night in the 9th, I think the WS would be over.
SJ44
Agree with the length versus quality issue. AJ would have been the same on 4 days as on 3 days. The guy’s got to throw it right over the plate, and trust that his plus plus movement takes it off. That takes a very big set, even on the best of days. He just didn’t have it mentally (oh when will he ever will?). That’s also why Manuel didn’t want Lee on 3 days, since the BP would have to come out in the 6th?
Not sure I agree with you on Wang. The Yankees can afford a $5 million gamble, can’t they? This isn’t the Pirates, after all (sigh).
HOW DARE YOU BE REASONABLE!
One more for Miggs and that is it. Are you kidding me? You don’t like me or my posts? Fine – you wouldn’t be the first and you won’t be the last. I really don’t think I need to explain why I am “insulting” you. I’ve had it up to HERE and I’m not going to just lie back and take it. EVERY time I post, you make arrogant, snide, rude remarks and everyone knows it. You’re just obnoxious and now you’re trying to play the sympathy card? Cut the you know what – you have earned every bit of my “insults”. That said, I’m done with you.
“However, when you are pitching to a 7 ERA and twice have fallen apart in pennant clinching games, its pretty to tough to argue he would be worse with Posada.”
SJ, just want to say that I could perhaps try to make that leap a little easier if both of those games weren’t away games. It isn’t like we didn’t know that he is worse on the road than at home.
I still think that he would have been worse with Posada. At least in the game in LA he managed to come around after the second inning and only had problems from sitting out a long inning in the 6th (and Posada was his catcher in the 7th by the way.)
Francesca is saying look for a 9 out save from Mo tomorrow night if it Yanks have lead in 7th… hmmm… can’t see it happening – 3 innings of Mo…
I really hope the Yanks can finish this tomorrow. I think expecting CC to throw another great game might be too much to ask. Especially since he will be on 3 days rest for the 2nd time in a row. Everyone thought Lee would be lights out and we saw how he performed. Hopefully it doesn’t get to a game 7 and the Yanks smack Pedro around early and often.
Again, it’s all good in my world because these guys wear the pinstripes and are out there busting tail, whether or not it ends up showing.
Burnett’s bad start had nothing to do with rest or which stadium. This is what he does. He is good, but sometimes he isnt. His first srarts in each round were good, but his vs LA and now 2nd here were not.
stop comparing Lee to Sabathia.
CC is used to 3 days rest. Lee struggled on regular rest and any game 7 would be cc vs. hamels (not a fully rested lee).
Franseca just said verbatim “I frankly do not think Andy will pitch well on short rest”
Thats means Andy will throw a complete game 1 hitter.
Franscea is ALWAYS wrong.
Betsy…
So you’re still saying Tex has gotten a free pass? I just want to be clear on that. For my own peace of mind.
Cheers!
Yankees will hit Pedro tomorrow.
Andy will pitch a good game.
Yankees win.
——————————————-
Anyone who has been at the Series games at the Stadium. Is it as loud there as it was at the old Stadium?
Andrew
They do not do it because they have no other material. They do it so they can further get people to dislike the Yankees and their fans, and get them to insult the Yankees and their fans. That’s why we have fans from other teams coming on here saying that we are not true fans.
Ya know who was a good, classy poster. There was a Seattle female fan who had a blog. She was a classy fan. Because of here, I dont even have any negative feelings about Seattle in 1995. Hey, without 1995, maybe the next 5 years do not happen.
when would they have pitched gaudin against minny? the yanks won it in 3!!!!!
gaudin is a nice pitcher and will be given a chance to contribute next year, but again he is not mike mussina……
One of the consoling aspects of Andy tomorrow is the fact that his repertoire is much deeper than is AJ’s.
If AJ’s locating his fastball and able to throw that power curve with accuracy (some, at the very least), he is about as dominant as they come, but the consistency of this ability is relatively spurty at best. He’s done great by and large this postseason and I am happy with what he has done.
On short rest tomorrow, hopefully Andy has at least three of his pitches locating as he desires. If he can give us 5 strong innings, possibly 6, I’d be more than satisfied, although that will require that our bats be effective and get Pedro out of the game asap.
Would any of you elect to pitch around Chase Utley? I’m not sure how I feel about that possibility out of respect for Ryan Howard.
Whether up 6-1 or down 6-1, when you’re a lefty specialist, you don’t pitch to 3 lefties and give up 2 HR. Both at 2 strikes, by the way.
That’s just inexperience. Let a guy get on base.
The fact that Alex has broken out of his Postseason freeze,is huge for the Yankees.
Matsui will most likely hit after Alex,another plus too.
Yankees need to score early to give Andy a cushion.
I’m felling really good about tomorrow,Yankees have the edge.
my wfan media player online keeps on cutting off Mike.
30 hours and 17 minutes until Game 6!!!!!!!!
#9 November 3rd, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Francesca is saying look for a 9 out save from Mo tomorrow night if it Yanks have lead in 7th… hmmm… can’t see it happening – 3 innings of Mo…
==========================================
i heard Hughes is legally changing his name to Mo.
You can’t lay it all on the catcher for AJ’s starts. That’s the problem.
Look at his entire career. This is who he is as a pitcher.
Fortunately, they no longer have to weaken the lineup to cater to an average pitcher.
That was Girardi’s problem with this from the get go.
The guy is getting paid 82.5 million dollars. If he’s that much of a headcase(which he’s not….Girardi overthought on this issue), they have much bigger problems in the future with him.
The whole, “he can’t pitch on the road” is a bunch of nonsense.
He fell apart in 2 first innings in clinching games.
That ain’t good and that’s all on AJ. Not on Molina and not on Posada.
miggs,
If it weren’t for Tex’s HR against Minny to win the game, his game tying bomb against Pedro, and his unbelieveably oustanding DEFENSE, I’d have a serious problem with him…but at present, his defense alone has given him a partial pass in my eyes because he has saved our backsides numerous times with solid play at 1B.
FING, If Alex can deliver tomorrow night in a big way, I would absolutely love it.
I am hoping that in the first inning Pedro gives up a multi-run homer to Alex. Just to set the stage for a big beat down Bronx Bombers style.
i have some level of trust in; robertson, joba, mo, marte, hughes, and phillies pen has madsen…
As Myers walked past Hamels near Hamels’ locker he said, mocking, “What are you doing here? I thought you quit.”
___
Classic hahaha
my wfan media player online keeps on cutting off Mike.
===============================
Same here, but that might be a good thing
“my wfan media player online keeps on cutting off Mike.”
The technology keeps getting better and better.
“miggs,
If it weren’t for Tex’s HR against Minny to win the game, his game tying bomb against Pedro, and his unbelieveably oustanding DEFENSE, I’d have a serious problem with him…but at present, his defense alone has given him a partial pass in my eyes because he has saved our backsides numerous times with solid play at 1B.”
Look at that! A rational post. Serenity now. LOL.
S.A.–Relax, Relate, Release November 3rd, 2009 at 1:46 pm
my wfan media player online keeps on cutting off Mike.
===============================
Same here, but that might be a good thing
haha
PittsburghYankeeFan November 3rd, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Whether up 6-1 or down 6-1, when you’re a lefty specialist, you don’t pitch to 3 lefties and give up 2 HR. Both at 2 strikes, by the way.
That’s just inexperience. Let a guy get on base.
___________________________________________________________
Agreed.
Just as Burnett didn’t get the job done, Coke didn’t get the job done either. The bullpen’s job is ensure the opposing team doesn’t score any more runs, and a lefty relievers job is to get lefties out. Coke couldn’t do it.
AJ pitched horrendously and left the team in a 6-1 hole. But it’s not unreasonable to think that the Yankees could muster up 5 more runs, especially because they had 6 more innings to score. And in fact, they did end up scoring 5 more runs. But the Yankees could not overcome those 2 runs surrendered by Coke.
The blame or praise for AJ’s performances should not be on the catcher.
It all begins and ends with AJ.
At least Girardi did seem to learn from his mother hen game vs. the Angels. After being ripped apart for that he has backed off a good deal. That is a good thing.
He still didn’t learn that the Molina experiment was folly. Sometimes I think he gets too caught up in the stats and in his own decisions. At least he has conviction, though, and that can help carry the ideas through.
I am not a fan of Girardi. Never liked him getting the job, still am not a fan of it, but I have been impressed with his learning curve.
stuart a
November 3rd, 2009 at 1:15 pm
hughes appeared to right his ship last night, robertson has pitched well all playoffs all you got to do is look at his #’s, joba is fair ,and mo is off the wall.
the phillies pen is a disaster area compared to the yanks.
phil coke, bruney, gaudin those are mop up guys………..
the yanks will win tommorrow but would have won last night if aj was a man a pitched with the heart that pettitte does……
————————————————————
Robertson may have been better than some of the relief pitchers, but, hasn’t necessarily “done well”. In the WS, in 2 games, 2.1 innings, he’s allowed 2 hits and a walk, which is ok. The bad part is that he hasn’t done what he’s supposed to do…strand runners. 4 inherited runners and 3 have scored.
“You can’t lay it all on the catcher for AJ’s starts. That’s the problem.
Look at his entire career. This is who he is as a pitcher.”
SJ44-
Generally in agreement with your comments but disagree on this. AJ, throughout his career, has been very good when healthy. The question always was, could he stay in the rotation, not what kind of game you’d get if he was in the rotation.
2009 was a real break in that history. Healthy all year, but erratic.
Sam, the only difference between now and game 5 of the 96 WS is that Andy Pettitte was 13 years younger than he is now. If pitchers were physically able to go on 3 days rest, you would see it more often than you typically do. As for the 03 Marlins, their offense is nothing compared to the offense of the Phillies.
I am really curious as to how a pitcher changes their approach when going on 3 days rest. Is their arm weaker? Maybe there isnt much of a difference with 2 less days of rest… I really am not sure..
“Ya know who was a good, classy poster. There was a Seattle female fan who had a blog. She was a classy fan. Because of here, I dont even have any negative feelings about Seattle in 1995. Hey, without 1995, maybe the next 5 years do not happen.”
Compass Rosy. Yes, I like her too.
“You can’t lay it all on the catcher for AJ’s starts. That’s the problem.
Look at his entire career. This is who he is as a pitcher.”
True.
Hey, a rainout could eliminate all this “3 days rest nonsense” for both Andy and CC.
Rainout! Rainout! Who’s with me!
Carl is that a bad thing? I am staying away from Mike for my own sanity.
vin
November 3rd, 2009 at 1:30 pm
“Tomorrow night, Andy is going to have a ton of adreneline and rested bullpen.”
Not to mention that his could perhaps be Andy’s last start… ever.
Wow, that just hit me.
____________________________________________________________
Listen, I’m stressed enough with this World Series. Can we not mention things like this. Thanks!
# Christina: Pictures from Game 6 and game 1 of the world series on the blog! November 3rd, 2009 at 1:50 pm
Sam, the only difference between now and game 5 of the 96 WS is that Andy Pettitte was 13 years younger than he is now. If pitchers were physically able to go on 3 days rest, you would see it more often than you typically do. As for the 03 Marlins, their offense is nothing compared to the offense of the Phillies.
I am really curious as to how a pitcher changes their approach when going on 3 days rest. Is their arm weaker? Maybe there isnt much of a difference with 2 less days of rest… I really am not sure..
I think it has more to do with the Money the pitchers are getting paid and injuries. Andy will be great.
jennifer November 3rd, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Carl is that a bad thing? I am staying away from Mike for my own sanity.
Naw, just tryna kill some time.
All year Coke has been susceptible to the home run. And while he has been tough overall against lefties, left handed hitters actually hit HR’s off him at a higher rate than right handed hitters did.
Bringing Coke in to face to the heart of the Philly lineup risked giving up the HR, which is what happened. Sometimes the platoon match-up is not the best guarantee of success.
I know stats are important and short or normal rest is important. But sometimes, people say you can throw stats out the window, like in a Game 7 of any sport. I just have this feeling that’s the way it is tomorrow night.
This is Big Game Andy Pettitte. Or as I have stolen the name from Wayne Rooney’s new child, Kai. He is Kai “Great King” Andy Pettitte.
Against the most arrogant man on the planet.
We have to win. We will win.
green beret 7 partially agree. robertson was called into a first and 3rd no outs last night. the runner from 3rd did score on a weak ground out that could not be turned into a DP.
Overall robertson in my opinion has been pretty good…
Had Rodriguez gotten to the plate in the 9th inning last night, there’s no way that Manual is pitching to him as long as Swisher and Cano are hitting like they are. Rodriguez hasn’t been great in the Series, but, his 4 hits have all produced important runs.
Everyone needs to take a deep breath!.
3 days rest is overrated. Pitchers back in the day use to go on 3 days rest all the time. Andy will be fine.
This is the only time he has done it this year, and he has had plenty of rest throughout the season and postseason.
the 3 day rest thing is way overblown.. people have no sense of context.. 3 days often and in the regular season would aboslutely burn out almost any modern day pitcher but for pettitte once!!!1
be real.. even if cc does it again it will be 2 times in a row after a bunch of rest after the alds, etc….
the point is over weeks of doing it even CC would hit the wall but that is not the case…….
Wow, what happened? People were so much more upbeat this AM. The Yankees just took 2 out of 3 from the ‘08 world champions, at their home. Now its back to Yankee Stadium w/ only one win to go. With the winningest post season pitcher on the mound, and plenty of bull pen support for him, including secret weapon Gaudin.
This will be Andy’s last start of the season, maybe as a yankee. HE”LL be lights out!
Wave Your Hat November 3rd, 2009 at 1:55 pm
All year Coke has been susceptible to the home run. And while he has been tough overall against lefties, left handed hitters actually hit HR’s off him at a higher rate than right handed hitters did.
Bringing Coke in to face to the heart of the Philly lineup risked giving up the HR, which is what happened. Sometimes the platoon match-up is not the best guarantee of success.
—–
Agreed. I would have like to see DRob used later in the game, rather than in the spot JoeG brought him in.
If Betsy were to run into Miggs on the street she would:
a) Slap him in the face and storm off
b) Unleash an expletive laced tirade and threaten bodily harm
c) Engage in rational Yankees discussion with him
d) Ask him for his autograph
GreenBeret7
November 3rd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Had Rodriguez gotten to the plate in the 9th inning last night, there’s no way that Manual is pitching to him as long as Swisher and Cano are hitting like they are. Rodriguez hasn’t been great in the Series, but, his 4 hits have all produced important runs.
—————————
Whaddya know? He hasn’t been padding his stats but he has been clutch. Amazing.
upstate kate
As we heard Joe and Tim repeatedly, they were 11-1 at home in the last 2 postseasons. We just walked into their house with their harassing, loud, obnoxious fans, and ripped their hearts out in the first 2 games. There is only one type of team that could do that, a world championship team.
I just love this picture of Kate (and Kurt) last night at the game.
http://www.popsugar.com/5991302?page=0,0,1
You have to admit, Kate is no fair weather fan. Rain or shine, she’s cheering the Yankees on. It certainly seems to be working for Alex. Now if Tex could employ some of the Buddhist relaxation techniques that Kate has taught Al, we’d be able to rest a little easier.
CC is used to 3 days rest
————-
Just because he has done it before doesn’t mean he still has 7 great innings left in him after a long season. CC wasn’t even that sharp in his last start. Yeah he only gave up 3 runs but he didn’t have good command and fell behind every hitter. CC has been great but that doesn’t mean be will have it again on 3 days rest.
I wonder if Gaudin would of out pitched AJ yesterday. All he needed was anything better than 2 innings 6 runs. He probably could of pitched a clincher lol
CR9
November 3rd, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Hey, a rainout could eliminate all this “3 days rest nonsense” for both Andy and CC.
Rainout! Rainout! Who’s with me!
*******
Tomorrow may be the first day of 2009 there seems to be no chance of rain in New York. Go figure.
I think Pettitte comes through tomorrow. He’s a warrior. Go Andy!!!!!!!!
Francesa wants to start Hinske in right tomorrow!!! HAHAHHAHAHA
pettite is not going to blow up.. might not be sharp.. will not blow up.. bigger question is can the yanks get to pedro?
The 3-days rest is irrelevant… AJ is just an inconsistent player (particularly on the road). I suspect that fatigue wasn’t an issue last night, just his nerves.
Pettitte has no such problems. And he will be pitching at home.
Couple of quick points (that may or may not have already been mentioned):
1) The Yanks walked off the field after Game 2, tied 1-1. At that moment, we all would have gladly taken a scenario of win 2 of 3 in Philly and come back home ahead 3-2. Well, here we are.
2) Joe could easily have pitched Gaudin last night and easily could have lost. Then AJ would have pitched Game 6. What if the stinker he put up last night, had actually occurred in Game 6 at the stadium? This board would have exploded in panic. Then there would be a winner take-all, totally relying that CC brings his best, or else.
3) The Yanks might blow it, even though I personally don’t think so. But at least they are going with their best. IF Joe has started Gaudin (and lost), then went with AJ in Game 6 (and lost), and then lost an “anything can happen” Game 7, I wouldn’t sleep for months knowing they didn’t pitch their 3 best in the last 3 games.
marie November 3rd, 2009 at 2:04 pm
I just love this picture of Kate (and Kurt) last night at the game.
http://www.popsugar.com/5991302?page=0,0,1
=====================================================
which one is kate?
e) Worry about the Yankees
For those that will still need a baseball fix after the last game of the WS, on 7 November on MLB-TV, they will have the AFL Rising Stars Game televised and on 21 November will be the AFL playoff. Not sure if that one will be broadcast ot not. The Rising stars game should be fun and a chance to see the kids coming up. i’m guessing that Brandon Laird, Colin Curtis and Ian Kennedy will play. No chance for Mike Dunn, Grant Duff or Zach Kroenke. Austin Romine is home with an injury.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....p;c_id=mlb
“SJ, just want to say that I could perhaps try to make that leap a little easier if both of those games weren’t away games. It isn’t like we didn’t know that he is worse on the road than at home.”
So not only does AJ need a personal catcher, but he can only pitch at home now too?
The excuses for this guy just do not stop.
Stop making excuses for the guy. He is a mediocre pitcher at best. Always has been and likely always will be.
Doesn’t matter how good his stuff is. Kyle Farnsworth has one of the best arms of all time and can’t pitch to save his life.
AJ has a 100 dollar arm and a 2 cent head. Doesn’t matter who’s catching him or where he’s pitching at.
Michael Kay doesn’t think Andy will pitch well either. wow just wow.
The Yankees will get to Pedro. Pedro threw over 100 pitches last time out, and this time he can’t get extra rest. This will be the second time the yankees have seen him and I expect him to be out of the game by the 5th inning.
New Poster here.
I just have to say what Douglas Adams put on his Hitchhikers’s guide to the galaxy. DON’T PANIC.
In fact, I would say, relax guys. Yesterday’s loss hurt but somehow it also made me lot more optimistic. There were so many signs of things looking good.
1. Pitchers who gave up runs – AJ and Coke, are not going to be pitching again in the series
2. Robertson, Hughes, Ace – they all did fantastic job. Has to give Joe G confidence that we can shorten the game 6.
3. Mo did not have to pitch. Extra rest for the Sandman.
4. Jeter, Damon, Arod, Jorge, Matsui are getting hotter and hotter. Even Swisher, Cano seem to be improving. I have full faith that Tex will rise to the ocassion tomorrow.
5. We are back at home in AL format. No more Molina or pither batting. We have Matsui back as DH full time. Look up his BA in world series. Its .556 or something equally obscene.
6. Lidge out of equation. Manuel was so scared that he did not use Lidge with 3 run lead going into 9th. And his next best option – Madsen gave up a run as well. He made one good pitch to Jeter which turned the game in their favour but even after that he could not put Damon away with 2 strikes. If the game goes on line tomorrow, what do you think happen’s to Manuel’s blood pressure?
7. Pedro pitching 2nd time. 1st time out, he was very good. But yanks typically get better in 2nd round, 3rd round etc. Yanks start hitting batter once they have gone through a pitcher once or twice. So if Pettite can hold it together for 5 innings and I have full confidence he can, we are going to break through against Pedro et. all
8. Mariano Rivera – This can not be emphasised enough. In Game 4, he was instrumental in forcing the game dynamics evven before he threw a single pitch. Think about the thought process behind the 9th inning. Damon wanted to steal 3rd so that Lidge couldn’t risk slider in the dirt to Tex and Arod. And Lidge couldn’t risk it because a wild pitch would give us 1 run lead which would bring out Mariano instead of Phil Coke. So for Phillies it was critical to prevent even a chance of wild pitch leading to a run in order to avoid facing Mo. And if this happenned in game 4, does anyone think that game 6 will be any different? If they were afraid of faciing Mo before game 4, they will be even more so now given how he just whiffed them in that game.
So after this rambling note, the conclusion is I feel extremely, extremely good about game 6 and so should others. We lost the game but we are on an upswing and the road is getting much tougher for Phillies.
Go Yanks
I think — I deeply hope — the Yanks pull it out tomorrow. If so, Mo is probably in line for the MVP. But I have to say that Utley may deserve it (especially if he hits another homer). There’s precedence for a player from the losing side to win (1960, I believe). Utley, even more than Lee, won two games — Philly’s only two wins.
raymagnetic .
A bit harsh to compare AJ to Farnsworth . IF it wasn’t for AJ we wouldn’t be up 3-2 . HE had a bad outing. but don’t make him out to be the worse pitcher of all time
Take what the sports media says with a grain of salt.
Those who can’t join the media.Some of those guys never played,or if they played weren’t good enough,coupled with the Yankee haters.Most just need a story,stilted as it may be,to stroke their audiences.They flow like the wind.
kruk,gammons,grace,karros,buck,mccarver,francesca,pete,et al,aren’t Yankees fans,stop listening to their ANIMOSITY toward the Yankees!
YANKEES WILL WIN,BELIEVE!! repeat…..
I have no idea who selected these rosters, but, I was completely wrong about the Rising stars players. Mike Dunn is the only one selected. These people are more clueless than Bud Selig and his band of mauraders. It almost looks like a bunch of writers making awards selections or Gold Glove selections.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/....._stars.jsp
Did anyone see this?
Major tension in the Phillies locker room due to Hamel’s comments
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns
Andy said that the rain delay effected his command. So everyone needs to calm down. Who cares what Kay and Francesca have to say because they are fair weather fans.
ray,
Unfortunately your observations don’t bear you out. AJ pitches better at home than on the road. That’s fact, not speculation.
“AJ has a 100 dollar arm and a 2 cent head. Doesn’t matter who’s catching him or where he’s pitching at.”
First he’s a mediocre pitcher. Then he has a 100 dollar arm. Then it doesn’t matter who’s catching him or where he’s pitching at.
Wow. A mediocre pitcher with a 100 dollar arm. That’s quite a feat!
1. It matter where he pitches because he pitches better at home.
2. It matter who catches him BECAUSE he has “a 2 cent head”.
And I’m not making any excuses for him. Unfortunately disgruntled posters often confuse “excuses” with “reasons” -probably because they don’t want to hear about anything less than perfection.
What are you talking about, Sam? Gaudin should have started game 4, NOT game 5…. What are you talking about when you say the possible mistake was not starting Gaudin in game 5? It should have been blanton v. gaudin in game 4 and CC v. lee in game 5… Why would you have your best pitcher throw against their worst pitcher in game 4- only to make sure he can throw AGAIN on short rest in game 7??? Who knows what the outcomes would have been, but the yanks certainly had the offense the past 2 games to win with those guys starting the respective games.
the way the yankess battled back in the 8th and 9th innings last night tells me that this series will be over tomorrow.
I saw the same thing in game #5 in anaheim – when the yankees lost but scored 6 runs in the 7th to take the lead, brief as it was…they had the look that they were going to end it the next game in NY – same as now….
now having said that..i read on a few threads people saying that hughes has righted the ship? are you guys on drugs?!?!
there should be no way no how that either hughes, joba or coke pitch tomorrow unless the score is 15 – 3 for the yankees (which it may be actually)…i think for all intents and purposes all 3 of these pitcher’s season are over..heck i’d pitch AJ, bruney or even CC for the 7th and 8th innings (with the yankees up by 2 or 3 runs of course) to bridge the game to mariano…or just pitch mariano for 3 innings…
btw – if the home plate ump makes the right call and calls a strike on victorino instead of a HBP – that inning may turn out to be totally different…vicky attempted to bunt the ball, pushing his bat toward the ball, and missed (techincally it hit his hand but he missed it) – thats a strike…even if utley homers thats a 2 run hr and a 2 run lead is way different than a 3 run lead…
This is all just early conjecture but I’ve found that for the most part, it gets early quite early on this blog.
So…
There’s a decent chance that if Andy wins this game, he might just sail off into the sunset.
Take that and add in the fact that AJ has more or less rendered himself a postseason question mark and you know what we may see?
Another interesting winter with the Yankees again being players the pitching market.
And I realize this post might be a couple of days early but I think I became a John Lackey fan watching him in the ALCS.
Not that I am bashing Hinske or saying Hinske would not help this team…
but of course Mike Francesa wants Hinske in RF tomorrow. He suspects that Hinske’s defense will cost us some way or another, and therefore, the reason why he wants him in.
I completely agree with Francesa that Game 5 was a free game and the perfect spot to throw Gaudin. If he loses, no big deal we have a fully rested AJ going in Game 6. Instead we’re screwed.
I watched the game on an international feed where Rick Sutcliffe was the color commentator.
He bashed Girardi literally the whole time for going to AJ on short rest. This is just ridiculous. You ask your top-players to go on one day short rest for the final game of the season, that simply does not make a big difference. AJ had a stinker in Anaheim too. It just happens that AJ Burnett stinks from time to time. This short rest discussion makes me sick.
Girardi certainly made some mistakes in the playoffs, but it’s not his choice of starting pitchers.
The roaches(Sports Writers)) come out after every Yankees loss,with doom and gloom.
They write articles of Yankees woe.How many times have 2004 come up,in this WS race?
Don’t buy what they’re selling!!
They’ll convince Andy to pitch one more year, then go after Halliday.
Hughes will be the #5, Joba the #4, Pettitte #3, AJ #2, CC #1.
If Wang comes back at all, then Hughes/Joba to BP.
Imagine a rotation of healthy Wang, AJ, CC, Hughes, Halliday with Joba as the 8th inning eventual closer guy (whenever Mo retires, which may not be until 45) in 2011.
Adam November 3rd, 2009 at 2:27 pm
I completely agree with Francesa that Game 5 was a free game and the perfect spot to throw Gaudin. If he loses, no big deal we have a fully rested AJ going in Game 6. Instead we’re screwed.
Yeah because AJ is guaranteed to pitch a great game on full rest.
By the way: What do you do if you pitch Gaudin in Game #5? Throw AJ out there in Game #6 – he stinks, everybody questions Girardi. Then Pettitte or Sabathia? Either way, people second guess, that it would have been better to see Pettitte and AJ twice and Sabathia three times.
This discussion really stinks. It is a no-brainer to go to your best personnel in the last games of the season if they feel good.
So AJ didn’t win.I much MORE prefer Andy for this game,to AJ.
The only thing I still do not get is why Girardi did not sub Pena for Matsui, and set him going to stay out of the DP in the top of the ninth.
Matsui was out of the game at that point, yes?
Bronx Jeers you are absolutely right, it is a possibility that Andy could leave for good. However if he comes out of this postseason feeling healthy and still has a desire to pitch, the Yankees will definitely want him back again for 2010.
That said, I would not be interested in Lackey. He has had more, or at least close to the same amount of arm issues that plagued Burnett, although I don’t think Lackey has had the full-on TJ surgery. He is a great pitcher when healthy but you are essentially going to give out 2 AJ Burnett contracts because that’s the stalking horse for Lackey’s potential free agent deal. Although I do think the money would be better spent on Lackey than on Burnett, I don’t see Cashman tying up another long-term deal.
Win or lose this series the winter will have more Roy Halladay trade rumors ahead during hot stove season.
“Yeah because AJ is guaranteed to pitch a great game on full rest.”
He’s better than Andy on short rest.
AJ pitching on the road is the reason he couldn’t get out of the 3rd inning?
Can that be proven? Does it always happen?
If that is the case, why was he given the start?
Sam,
I hope you’re right about Pettitte. He hasn’t pitched on short rest in 6 years. In addition, the games you referenced(1996 & 2003)followed two very short outings in his previous starts.
Marie, I love the look on the PHI fans’ faces as they look at Kate and Hurt cheer. Freaking priceless.
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/11/03/short-stuff/
“I completely agree with Francesa that Game 5 was a free game and the perfect spot to throw Gaudin. If he loses, no big deal we have a fully rested AJ going in Game 6. Instead we’re screwed.”
And then what happens if AJ coughs up 6 runs in the first two innings in game 6? His ineffectiveness last night had nothing to do with short rest, and everything to do with him being AJ Burnett.
You’d be better off following the team all season and using your own brain, than listening to sports talk radio.
Hell, you would be better off doing heroine and then rock climbing, than you would be listening to sports talk radio.
Here’s an idea, Francesa. Why not pitch Gaudin in game 6? That way Andy will be fresh for game 7. Let CC sit on the bench–he must be tired after all of these starts in October…
What a lame excuse for a sports commentator.
Adam November 3rd, 2009 at 2:32 pm
“Yeah because AJ is guaranteed to pitch a great game on full rest.”
He’s better than Andy on short rest.
Can I borrow your crystal ball please.
AJ did not have a poor outing because of short rest – he’s just an inconsistent pitcher. If you think Gaudin would have been better you are crazy. Most people don’t think that. Every time the Yanks win Girardi is praised, every time they lose he is questioned. It’s a consequence of being in NY. We want another winner more than ever.
Even on short rest you give your team the best chance to win, and that meant AJ, and it means Pettite tomorrow. God, I hope we win it against Pedro.
Great post. Well said and backed by some facts/stats.
Stop criticizing Girardi for doing what he did. Did he really have another choice? I’m sure the vultures around here would have been ready to bash Girardi if he went with Gaudin and saw him give up 6 runs in 2 innings.
This team has 3 great starters. Based on the playoff schedule, it was smart to go with the big 3.
Adam
If you believe in Francesca then you need to get your head checked.
Gaudin would have lost big time last night, and even if A.J. was rested he would have lost game 6 because he is a up and down pitcher. Then we would be facing a game 7 and then the Yankees would really be in trouble.
Some of you have no clue. We are up 3-2 and the Phillies have a bad bullpen and there worst starters pitching the next 2 games. The advantage is still with the Yankees.
The media can’t tolerate any level of Yankee success.
When A-Rod had what was hopefully the first of many World Series defining moments (his double off of Lidge), the ridiculous centaur story gets headlines.
Just look at the current headlines in the baseball section of ESPN news:
-Utley’s record HRs help Phils cut Yanks’ lead (Go Phillies!)
-Hamels: ‘I’ll never ever quit’ on Phillies, fans (Go Phillies!)
-Victorino says hand is fine, will play Game 6 (Go Phillies!)
-Joba’s mother pleads no contest to drug charge (Go… huh?)
-Yankees’ frequent meetings on mound at issue
The Larry Bowa blurb about Philly possibly stealing signs got about 4 seconds of attention in the bottom of the article about how the problematic Yankees are slowing down the game. If the Yankees were accused of stealing signs, it would be front page news and countless columns would be dedicated to that story.
Nothing about the resilient Yankees almost coming back from being down 6-1 and Manuel being scared to use his closer with the tying run at the plate.
The Yankees are up 3-2 coming home, and we get to read about the paintings in A-Rod’s bedroom and Joba’s mother who he hasn’t had a relationship with in years.
bronx jeers –
i hope cashman realizes from this WS that he doesn’t have enough pitching and does go out and either trades or signs another #1 & #2 starter – i’d go as far as calling the braves GM and asking if he wants to take AJ and his salary off of our hands – i wouldn’t even ask for anything in return – just take his salary so that cashman has that money to sign lackey and then puts some package together for halladay or hernandez- a package centering on 4 of joba, hughes, ajax, romine, melancon, montero should do it…stop with the prospect hugging and learn from your mistakes..
also as good as the bullpen was for 2 months this year he’s got to look into getting some established relievers in there – coke is a joke, DRob is OK but i don’t know if i can trust him 100%, bruney is done in my book, the rest i can take them or leave them it doesn’t matter…
I’m not going to blame/credit anything on Burnett as far as the World Series goes, but does anyone actually think he was a good signing?
He pitched a great game 2 and probably kept the Yankees alive, but he’s got four more years left on that deal.
I’m reading that Lackey is going to want the same kind of deal. If you ask me, I’d take Lackey over Burnett every time.
Carl -
I was good with either Gaudin or Burnett. You know though that Girardi was going to be criticized if the Yankees lost no matter who pitched. If it was Burnett, he’s bad on the road and now everyone ends up on short rest. If it was Gaudin, he was throwing in the towel and pitching someone who hadn’t pitched more than one inning in a month where he could have used one of his starters. (Another thing someone said yesterday when I said I was okay with Gaudin was that everyone knew he had a bad record against lefties so they wouldn’t pitch him in that game.)
So you see my point. Girardi was in a no win situation. Just reading this forum you could see that you had posters on both sides – and adamant for their particular view!
God bless managers. You talk about not being able to please everyone, unless of course they end up with a 162-0 season!
I don’t think that the short rest had anything to do with AJ’s bad outing in game 5. I simply think that its just the nature of AJ Burnett. I call him Forrest Gump because when he is pitching, “life is like a box of chocolates…you never know what you’re going to get”.
He will probably be unpredictably inconsistent for the rest of his Yankee career.
I am assuming that Girardi’s black book doesn’t say to groove pitches over the plate to Utley. Eiland better talk to his pitches about hitting your spots with him. Knock him off the plate and then go up in the strike zone and down and away. Pitch him on the outside corner and make him hit the ball to LF. They better not give greasy another pitch that he could hit for a homerun.
I strongly suspect that a lot of video will be watched today. Dave Eiland will go over strategy with Andy and the relief staff on how to contain Utley without waking up Howard and others.
Before taking swings in the batting cage, Kevin Long will do a quick study with Cano and what can be offered with Teixeira to have him comfortable. It’s too late for drastic hitting changes but sometimes a slight adjustment can make a difference.
BJK
November 3rd, 2009 at 2:36 pm
The media can’t tolerate any level of Yankee success.
*****************
Good post. I had to laugh at some of the headlines. I fully expect Joe Buck to start weeping when the Yankees win. He could barely contain his excitement last night when he said “back to the Bronx”.
Adam
November 3rd, 2009 at 2:27 pm
I completely agree with Francesa that Game 5 was a free game and the perfect spot to throw Gaudin. If he loses, no big deal we have a fully rested AJ going in Game 6. Instead we’re screwed.
————————————————————
Your first mistake was admitting that you listen to Francessa. Your second mistake was admitting that you agree with him. Zero credibility.
There’s a decent chance that if Andy wins this game, he might just sail off into the sunset.
____________________________________________________________
Seriously guys, stop with the “this might be Andy’s last game” speculations. My heart can’t take this right now!
Side note, anyone else looking forward to catching some ZZZZZ’s tonight? I think I’ll be lucky if I make it past 9!
the best line of last night was when Ozzie was asked if he wanted to revise his “Phillies in 6″ and he said no.
Burnett is not better in the post-season than Andy on short rest.
Burnett is not a better pitcher than Andy Pettitte.
Put it another way…..
Your life is on the line, who do you want to pitch to save your life, Andy Pettitte or AJ Burnett?
Please, enough with the AJ nonsense. He pitched well in ONE post-season game. He pitched like garbage in 2 and was average in 2 others.
He gave up a TON of baserunners in Game 2 vs. the Twins and Angels and survived those starts. He was FAR from lights out.
Andy Pettitte is the winningest post-season pitcher of all-time.
2 games (possibly) left to the season and the Yankees are at home and have to win ONE game. Their pitchers are Andy Pettitte and CC Sabathia AND they have a rested bullpen.
I like their chances.
“but does anyone actually think he was a good signing?”
I do. Burnett’s upside is big and he has given the Yankees some valuable starts and wins this year.
First, I want to say, you can’t deal in “what-ifs.” What happened happened. You can as easily say if ARod had gotten to the plate he would have struck out as you can say he’d have gotten a big hit – or more likely, he would have gotten hit by a pitch and Swisher would have struck out behind him. Or not. You see? It’s a fool’s game.
Second,
Thank you SJ44, for your response in the prior thread regarding the fact that the Yankees do have things to think about this off-season. One question: can they non-tender CMW and then negotiate a different contract, or do they lose him altogether?
And regarding the rotation – I was a Joba in the rotation person, unequivocably. But as the season evolved, I would say that I find myself to be more of a “let’s see how this goes” person. In other words, the Yankees are going to do what best suits their needs and their goals going forward. If wahtever they choose to do results in a winning team, isn’t that really what it’s all about? So I think this off-season is going to be quite interesting. I’m sure Mr. Cashman’s already got a few irons in the fire. Not an obvious off-season, like last year was.
NYY626-
Do you need a hug?
I need sleep so badly. I have been in meetings and conference calls on and off all day today. I have a massive headache. Can’t wait to go home and curl into a ball on my couch
sab
“there should be no way no how that either hughes, joba or coke pitch tomorrow unless the score is 15 – 3 for the yankees (which it may be actually)…i think for all intents and purposes all 3 of these pitcher’s season are over..heck i’d pitch AJ, bruney or even CC for the 7th and 8th innings (with the yankees up by 2 or 3 runs of course) to bridge the game to mariano…or just pitch mariano for 3 innings…”
i gott a be froank and say that i find your comments/opinions to be on the deep end of moronic….
Joba the other night was brilliant!!! be blew away Werth,Ibanez,and Ruiz to the point where they looked totally overmatched. Feliz got the barrel out on a 95 mph fastball and he beat him that happens. you know the other team plays to win too right. Joba was aggressive,his stuff was electric and he challenged them with it.
Sabathia has given up 3 homers to Utley so using your logic then we should put him on the shelf too because he stinks right? UNBELIEVABLE!!!!
better that we hope that we can get that Joba for 2 innings tommorrow and maybe the recipe is 5 strong Andy/2 electric Joba and 2 Mo and we pop bottles!
If you are looking to trade AJ Burnett for nothing than you aren’t a GM, you are a child.
Stop being emotional and think for a change.
No GM operates that way.
If they did, they would be umemployed.
I don’t believe for a minute that this is Andy’s last season. He loves pitching too much and loves being a Yankee.
Mariano:
Saturday – 5 pitches
Sunday – 9 pitches
Monday – off
Tuesday – off
I say bring him in the sixth inning tomorrow!
NYY626
November 3rd, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Side note, anyone else looking forward to catching some ZZZZZ’s tonight? I think I’ll be lucky if I make it past 9!
**************
I know I am. I’m so behind on sleep it’s not even funny.
I just keep finding it funny that some of AJ’s loudest critics are also some of Cano’s biggest apologists.
AJ won a WS game for this team in game 2. He was excellent. He’s not garbage.
He’s done a heck of a lot more to win this series that Cano has who has yet again wilted under the pressure.
Whether it’s the weather with him or the spot in the batting order he’s asked to hit it or the fact that the team needs him to drive in a run with a guy on base he’s not getting the job done offensively. At all.
No more excuses for AJ who was brilliant in game 2?
Fine.
No more excuses for Cano. He stinks right now. On ice.
“I do. Burnett’s upside is big and he has given the Yankees some valuable starts and wins this year.”
Absoutely agree.
Doreen,
Yes, they can non-tender CMW and sign him to a lesser contract if he so chooses.
Not sure if CMW would take a lesser deal or decide its time to go to a new venue. However, signing him to a smaller deal is an option if he is non-tendered.
If you had asked me before this series started who I’d want pitching a Game 7, CC on 3 days rest or Andy on full rest, the answer is simple.
CC on 3 days rest. No brainer.
If you had asked me who I’d want pitching a Game 6, whether to clinch or force a game 7, Andy on 3 days rest or AJ on full rest?
Andy on 3 days rest.
Andy has been the more dependable starter all season. Our pitchers are lined up just the way we want them. Time to close the deal.
BellaSakura November 3rd, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Marie, I love the look on the PHI fans’ faces as they look at Kate and Hurt cheer. Freaking priceless.
********
I read on some Philly blog that two of the people in Kate’s row had to be removed by security. Kate and Kurt must have really got some Philly fans teed off with all their Yankee cheering.
“If you had asked me before this series started who I’d want pitching a Game 7, CC on 3 days rest or Andy on full rest, the answer is simple.
CC on 3 days rest. No brainer.
If you had asked me who I’d want pitching a Game 6, whether to clinch or force a game 7, Andy on 3 days rest or AJ on full rest?
Andy on 3 days rest.
Andy has been the more dependable starter all season. Our pitchers are lined up just the way we want them. Time to close the deal.”
—————-
More importantly, time to shut up the media who continue to act like a pitcher on 3 days rest is the biggest sin imaginable.
Perhaps Andy should be rolled out to the mound in a wheelchair tomorrow night?
Michael Kay is stupid. Randy Johnson was 37 in 2001 haha
On the iPod playing
Cry baby
Janis Joplin
Pearl
Ach. There is no such thing as a free game in the World Series. Sigh.
Cano and Tex have been brutal this post-season. At least Tex has helped with the glove.
Cano’s post-season looks like his season of last year. Every AB is worse than the previous AB.
Its a problem. But, right now, it doesn’t matter.
Find a way to win a game. Doesn’t matter who contributes and how its done. Just find a way to win a game.
That’s what the season has come down to.
That said, Cano has shown in this post-season that once again, he is far from an elite player. He has the talent but not the consistency.
A shame because he is a gifted kid. Just can’t hit with guys on base.
please someone ban CashmansGottaGo from this forum
clearly he’s a trolling redsox fan or a person who should be committed…it’s the same redundant tired nonsensical three comments about trading our entire minor league organization plus Joba,Cano,Hughes and Hal Steinbrenners checkbooks for Halladay,Kinsler and Orel Herschiser
please just suck the little brains that are left in his head out as he is clearly not using them anyway…..anyone?
Sj44,
You are being a bit hard on A.J.
He had 2 bad starts, and 3 good ones. It doesn’t matter how many baserunners he gave up, that’s part of his game. When he allows more walks it means his stuff is good and he tends to have a lower ERA.
The team won 3 of his starts and lost 2. That’s not amazing but it’s not garbage. Considering this is his first real postseason experience I’m not surprised.
Why are we still complaining about A.J. anyways? His season is over unless Girardi uses him out of the pen. Who cares? What’s done is done.
Now it’s Andy Pettitte’s turn to try and shut the door. If he can’t do it we have our ace on the mound at home against the Phillies 3 starter.
I like our chances.
“I read on some Philly blog that two of the people in Kate’s row had to be removed by security. Kate and Kurt must have really got some Philly fans teed off with all their Yankee cheering.”
Or more likely, Philly fans are just a bunch of belligerent snots.
Doreen,
EXACTLY!
I love these talk show hosts who believe the Yankees had a “throwaway” game yesterday.
That’s just nonsense.
Look, Andy Pettitte is a much better pitcher than AJ Burnett. I’d rather have Andy pitch on 3 days rest than AJ on ANY amount of rest.
They have a rested bullpen and if Andy is gassed in the 5th, you go to the pen.
There is no guarantee of ANYTHING with AJ Burnett.
I’d rather have my A lineup and Andy Pettitte on 3 days rest, than my B lineup and AJ Burnett pitching to win the World Series.
I personaly would of kept Joba stretched out to be able to start. Joba pitched well against the red sox when he needed to in his 2nd to last start. The way he pitched against the royals and mariners is kind of irrelevant to me. Joba would of pitched much better than Burnett who always struggles on the road last night.
But since they put him in the bullpen they have no other choice but to have there 3 starters go on 3 days rest. Gaudin was never a realistic option.
“Your life is on the line, who do you want to pitch to save your life, Andy Pettitte or AJ Burnett?”
Too simplistic of a question.
One has the better history but the other has greater talent.
Not unlike the Jeter/A-Rod debates that have gone on for years and mean nothing.
Erica – always OPPC
November 3rd, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Did anyone see this?
Major tension in the Phillies locker room due to Hamel’s comments
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne…..;type=lgns
===================================================
Hamel has nothing to worry about…Myers is known to only hit women….
“First he’s a mediocre pitcher. Then he has a 100 dollar arm. Then it doesn’t matter who’s catching him or where he’s pitching at.
Wow. A mediocre pitcher with a 100 dollar arm. That’s quite a feat!
1. It matter where he pitches because he pitches better at home.
2. It matter who catches him BECAUSE he has “a 2 cent head”.
And I’m not making any excuses for him. Unfortunately disgruntled posters often confuse “excuses” with “reasons” -probably because they don’t want to hear about anything less than perfection.”
Yes he’s a mediocre PITCHER. Pitching is more than about having a good arm.
Wouldn’t expect you to understand that however.
For years Edwin Jackson had a great arm and couldn’t pitch to save his life.
Now he knows how to pitch and he’s a very good pitcher.
Understand?
And yes you are making excuses for him. You’ve said all year he NEEDS Molina to pitch well.
Now, that argument hold no merit considering how terribly he pitched the last two times he had an opportunity to close out a series with Molina behind the dish.
Now the excuse for him is that he needed to pitch at home. Stop making excuses for the guy.
If Gaudin had pitched last night you are essentially taking a start away from one of your best 3 starters. Lets say Gaudin pitched game 5 since it’s a throwaway game after all. Either Girardi skips Burnett and goes with Pettitte short rest, goes with Burnett then Pettitte on regular rest or skips Pettitte and goes Burnett, Sabathia.
It’s just a silly proposition and frankly, it shows how little Francesa understands the game of baseball.
champ809 – its funny how yankee fans have short memories… joba gave up a homerun to a guy who had 12 homeruns in 600 plate appearances this year and was batting .180 with a .212 obp and a .380 slg% in the playoffs this year – and had i believe a 1-2 count on him at one point..the fact that he struck out the other 3 batters (who were equally horrible) is irrelevant…add to that the fact that he has been absolutely ATROCIOUS in the postseason and the last 3 months of the regular season this year (btw the reason the yankees have gone to a 3 man rotation in the playoffs – compromising both Aj and Andy is because joba couldn’t hack it as a starter)..if you ask me i think its moronic to think the Joba or Hughes or Coke can be trusted with a one or 2 run lead in the 7th or 8th inning…put your money where your mouth is big guy..
yankees have a 1 run lead tomorrow in the 8th inning – and they have all of their pitchers available in the bullpen (assuming mo only pitches the 9th) – who is girardi going to call – joba, hughes, marte or coke….100 bucks says marte gets the call…
SJ44 -
Thanks.
Trisha -
Even with a 162-0 record, there would be complaining.
Yes Burnett was awful last night. But he is the one who pitched the yankees back into the series when they were down 0-1 in the series. If the yanks lost game 2 they would of never had a shot to win this series. For whatever reason he cant pitch well on the road.
I have no problem with Brett Myers getting in Hammel’s face. The guy quit on his team and worse, put it out to the media. There’s no worse sin than quitting on your team.
CR9,
A rainout of Game 6 might allow Andy another day’s rest, but so too would it allow another day’s rest for Cliff Lee, thus allowing the potential of him starting Game 7 if the Phils win Game 6.
We don’t want rainouts.
We want to finish this in Game 6 and we can finish it in Game 6.
The decision was essentially made at the trade deadline when no experienced, capable starter was acquired. I agree three starters gives them the best chance. Will it work? We’ll find out, but I do like our chances.
this is just too much…..
Tom
curious who do you think knows more about the effect of pitching on short rest especially in a World Series clinching game and what it’s really asking of a pitcher
RICK SUTTCLIFFE or you??????!!!!!!!
seriously dudes just stop!!!!!
GIRARDI OVERPLAYED HIS HAND! HE WENT ALL IN AND HE DIDN”T HAVE TO! WE HAD A 3-1 Lead.
our position now is not as strong as if we had AJ lined up FULLY RESTED and Pett lined up FULLY RESTED with CC in the pen with another days rest!
we’re fortunate that our team is so strong that we’ll find a way to win in spite of that.
“Look, Andy Pettitte is a much better pitcher than AJ Burnett. I’d rather have Andy pitch on 3 days rest than AJ on ANY amount of rest.”
That’s laughable. You have zero understanding of even basic statistics and it’s all over your posts. You’re a joke.
Erica – always OPPC
November 3rd, 2009 at 2:46 pm
NYY626-
Do you need a hug?
I need sleep so badly. I have been in meetings and conference calls on and off all day today. I have a massive headache. Can’t wait to go home and curl into a ball on my couch
____________________________________________________________
I might need a hug with all “Andy last game” talk. Now I know how you feel when people say they dont want to resign Damon.
Andrew November 3rd, 2009 at 2:32 pm
……
That said, I would not be interested in Lackey. He has had more, or at least close to the same amount of arm issues that plagued Burnett, although I don’t think Lackey has had the full-on TJ surgery. …
……………………………………………………..
Lackey has definitely been healthier than AJ over his career but has started the last 2 seasons on the DL. Other than that he’s been fine.
You’re right though about Cash now wanting another 5 year contract on the staff.
I don’t even think they need another ace-type pitcher. They need a solid # 3. Someone who won’t ….you know melt down.
I wasn’t worried about Burnett on short rest as much as I was about his performances on the road.
I just think, based on history, Girardi may have been safer saving a rested Burnett to pitch where he seems to be more comfortable and effective, at home.
I don’t know how Pettitte will perform on short rest now that he is pushing 40, he may prove to the world that he is STILL one of the greatest competitors in sports, and I hope he does.
I just really believe that it would have been a much safer move to pitch Gaudin, see what happens in Game 5, and if that doesn’t work, you’ve still got the advantage coming home, up 3-2, with Burnett and CC.
GB
Only problem with what Myers did is he did it with media within earshot.
Time and place issue rather than a content issue.
NYY626
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:05 pm
I might need a hug with all “Andy last game” talk. Now I know how you feel when people say they dont want to resign Damon.
*******
Violently angry???
But all is good. Everyone on the blog really loves Johnny this week. LOL
“Our” position today is no different than what the media people were thinking it would be if Chad Gaudin started. That is what is so ridiculous about all of this. They (the media, with some exceptions) were willing (of course, it’s not their game) to sacrifice one game. They expected Gaudin to lose. They didn’t care if he lost. The loss was supposedly worth getting AJ on regular rest and having Pettitte available in the bullpen if needed.
I like Girardi’s game better. It didn’t work out, but he wasn’t conceding anything.
trisha – OPPC forever – (new lucky picture from last day at the old Stadium) BRING ON THE GHOSTS!
November 3rd, 2009 at 2:47 pm
“I don’t believe for a minute that this is Andy’s last season. He loves pitching too much and loves being a Yankee.”
Very interesting comment from someone who argued long and hard against the Yankees resigning Pettite, that because of his steroid use and possible court cases he would be a negative distraction to the Yankees.
Adam
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:03 pm
“Look, Andy Pettitte is a much better pitcher than AJ Burnett. I’d rather have Andy pitch on 3 days rest than AJ on ANY amount of rest.”
That’s laughable. You have zero understanding of even basic statistics and it’s all over your posts. You’re a joke.
————————————————————
Get lost, Francessa.
Also, if AJ is on, he can give length – 6 and into the 7th. So it should have been less wear and tear on the bullpen versus Chad Gaudin who is 5 and maybe into the 6th.
Girardi on the wfan
I have an idea. How about next year the Yankees make sure they have 4 quality starting pitchers.
Love Girardi’s comeback to Francesa on saying you have to consider Mo for 3 innings tomorrow because he could do that within his 35-40 pitch limit.
“If I knew Mo would only need 1 pitch per batter, I could start him too.”
Moving forward, I’m going to operate under the a-ssumption that no one can prove that AJ pitched badly last night because it was a road game.
If I’m wrong about that, I hope the proof will be forthcoming.
And I believe starting AJ last night was the right call given the options. I don’t blame Girardi for AJ’s performance.
Nice post Sam.
I still think using all 3 starters on short rest is the right decision (and I’m no Girardi fan).
There are alot of different ways to look at it but AJ easily could’ve went out and gotten bombed at home in Game 6 on regular rest. That’s the type of pitcher he’s been his whole career. Then the Yankees would’ve been much worse off being put into a game 7.
I just don’t agree with the logic of giving away Game 5 by starting Gaudin. If AJ could’ve given a respectable start for 5 or 6 innings, then the Yankees would’ve won.
For Game 6, if Pettitte can go even 4 innings and the Yankees have the lead then you can go with:
Robertson/Marte for the 5th
Hughes for the 6th
Joba for the 7th
Mo for the 8th and 9th
SJ44
November 3rd, 2009 at 2:46 pm
If you are looking to trade AJ Burnett for nothing than you aren’t a GM, you are a child.
Stop being emotional and think for a change.
No GM operates that way.
If they did, they would be umemployed.
===========================================================
so i guess the GM’s that traded Abreu to the yankees, schilling to the redsox, kazmir to the angels, just about any trade the yankees made prior to 2003, any trade the marlins have made in the last 5 years means all of those GM’s were dumb?
sometimes trades are made for monetary reasons – in my propsed AJ trade you just want to get rid of the 80 million dollars so that you can sign a more consistent, and better, pitcher in Lackey…. its called trading their salary… it happens all the time… and oh Mr High and Mighty I know everything….JP Ricciardi was given that task this year (trading salary) and he was fired because he couldn’t do it…
Champ – i didn’t know you are blogging from communist china – why should i be banned just because i voice my opinion on what trades i would make..if you don’t like what i write don’t read it…. i’m not calling anyone names, i haven’t threatened anyone or called them trolls and i haven’t used profanity…. sensitive much?
Adam November 3rd, 2009 at 3:03 pm
“Look, Andy Pettitte is a much better pitcher than AJ Burnett. I’d rather have Andy pitch on 3 days rest than AJ on ANY amount of rest.”
That’s laughable. You have zero understanding of even basic statistics and it’s all over your posts. You’re a joke.
————————————————————–
Why don’t you back up your claim with some of your “basic statistics”
“I don’t even think they need another ace-type pitcher. They need a solid # 3. Someone who won’t ….you know melt down.”
I think the problem is that AJ is their #3 pitcher and they will still be looking for a #2, or if not, fooling themselves into believing that AJ is a #2 caliber guy. And before I get attacked for being too negative towards the precocious pie-man, yes he contributed wonderfully this year at times and won important games so far in October.
But, he is so brutally inconsistent. Maybe Pettitte comes back but either way, age is not on his side. Hughes could develop rapidly as a starter next year, or Chamberlain could progress, but that’s a lot of question marks. I think they need another veteran presence in the rotation come this offseason, which will hopefully begin tomorrow night.
pat -
Love that response by Girardi!
pat
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Love Girardi’s comeback to Francesa on saying you have to consider Mo for 3 innings tomorrow because he could do that within his 35-40 pitch limit.
“If I knew Mo would only need 1 pitch per batter, I could start him too.”
***************
Hilarious.
If the Yankees have ANY lead tomorrow, Mo pitches 8th and 9th. If it’s 10-0, Mo pitches 8th and 9th.
In an even more realistic scenario, say Yanks up 5-2 or something like that, Mo pitches the last 3 innings.
Adam,
Andy Pettitte has 16 post-season wins.
AJ Burnett has 1.
You don’t need to be a stathead to know which guy is more comfortable when the pressure is on.
You are the joke if you can’t take your head out of a statsheet to see which guy is the better pitcher.
In fact, Andy Pettitte has been the better pitcher in his entire career than AJ Burnett.
Only a guy who has no understanding of statistical analysis, or the game of baseball, would believe otherwise.
Tex said one thing after the game I really didn’t like. The media asked him what is going on with him at the plate and his answer was basically he just isn’t getting hits and then he said the off days haven’t helped him. I am sorry but this is the WS don’t blame the schedule.
in 9 appearances out of the pen in the 2009 playoffs Joba has given up 2 RUNS TOTAL!!!! that’s atrocious!?!?!??
he has given up a few hits but again he was adjusting to going back to the Pen but other than last night and game 3 of the ALCS he’s gotten out of it. it hasn’t been pretty or ‘07 vintage Joba (until last nite) but he’s been effective which is why Joe’s moved him up in the pecking order!
Moronic!
pat November 3rd, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Love Girardi’s comeback to Francesa on saying you have to consider Mo for 3 innings tomorrow because he could do that within his 35-40 pitch limit.
“If I knew Mo would only need 1 pitch per batter, I could start him too.”
=========================
Is there any way to safely self-induce a coma of 36 hours so I wake up when it is hopefully all over?
100 Pitches of Fun -
They asked him to give them some kind of reason why his hitting is off. I have heard other people say that all of the off days can mess with some hitters’ rhythms. I don’t think Teixeira is making excuses.
So, if he answered, “I don’t know, I’m just not seeing the ball well right now,” you’d be happier with that answer?
Sometimes I wish they didn’t do interviews at all.
Could you imagine if Andy had AJ’s stuff. He would probably be one of the best pitchers ever lol
Anyone that argues A.J. Burnett is a better pitcher (postseason or otherwise) than Andy Pettitte just doesn’t get it.
am increasingly pleased that the Yankees are not managed by blog commentators…we would be the Cleveland Browns of basbeall is that were the case.
Girardi’s right… the Yanks give themselves a better chance to win if they go with the 3-man rotation. The only way Gaudin would have started is if they were up 3-0.
CR9
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Is there any way to safely self-induce a coma of 36 hours so I wake up when it is hopefully all over?
******
No.. but that reminds me…..
28 hours and 42 minutes until Game 6!!!!!!!!!
100 pitches
–
If that is the case with Tex, why is he not taking live ABs today against Sergio Mitre or Brian Bruney. A simulated game or something.
Doreen, what is Joe saying? I refuse to listen to Francesca OR Kay today……
Also, I want to know what the mediots are smoking. The YANKEES are the ones up 3-2, NOT the Phillies. Bob Klapisch actually tweeted that the Yankees’ title hopes are dimmer? If they’re dimmer, then the Phillies’ must be complete doused.
The good news is, AJ helped all season, AJ has helped in the postseason, and AJ is one team win away from being a World Series Champion!
AJ? YAY-J!
The losses don’t look as bad from the parade, nor do they look as bad when tempered by better performances in the future. As I wrote in an earlier thread, AJ should get more postseason opportunies and he should be better equipped to take advantage of them.
Andy is obviously a better pitcher, but AJ is not garbage like people are making him out to be. Glove, I couldn’t agree more with your posts.
Nick in SF in Vallejo
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:20 pm
The good news is, AJ helped all season, AJ has helped in the postseason, and AJ is one team win away from being a World Series Champion!
AJ? YAY-J!
The losses don’t look as bad from the parade, nor do they look as bad when tempered by better performances in the future. As I wrote in an earlier thread, AJ should get more postseason opportunies and he should be better equipped to take advantage of them.
—————————————————————
Stop being so rational, Nick. It’s the day after a loss, this is not the time and certainly not the place.
How about the anti-ESPN.
Yahoo says its not time to worry. So no worrying!!!
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/bl.....mlb,199868
Why is Girardi being so secretive about who is pitching tomorrow? Everyone knows it’s Andy.
with all the moaning and groaning about the fact that we’re going with (most likely) Andy on short rest followed by CC on short rest, have any of you stopped to consider the Phillies’ position? They’re sending out Pedro in a must win game 6, which will be followed by Hamels in a must win game 7. I’m MUCH more confident in the Yankee starters on short rest in both situation. How Girardi is getting killed for this and Manual is getting no heat for not even having the option to pitch Cliff Lee for a third time is beyond me. From where I sit, if anyone has mis-managed their rotation to this point, it would be Manual.
Like any business, the media needs to make it sales – whether selling papers, airtime or ad revenues on the internet. They always go with the same narratives. The real story — Yankees playing well in Series, likely to wrap up at home — is not a good “sell” for the audience outside of Yankees fans. It’s not even a good “sell” for the bandwagon Yankees fans who showed up in October. Anything can happen, but the Yankees look like a team ready to make it happen and the Phils look like a team holding on and waiting for the “other shoe to drop.”
Nick the losses won’t look so bad from the parade as long as the parade is taking place on Broadway and not in whatever dirt road they have parads on in Philly.
Burnett pitched well enough to have 3 wins. Yes, he also pitched well enough to have 3 losses.
But let’s not kill Burnett for only having 1 win in his first postseason when the truth is he pitched well enough to have 3 wins.
Not saying AJ is a better postseason pitcher, but just trying to give a little perspective here.
Andy has a lot more wins because he’s had many more opportunities.
“Could you imagine if Andy had AJ’s stuff. He would probably be one of the best pitchers ever lol”
That’s exactly what made Pedro Martinez great (in his prime). He had electric stuff, but he was also smart.
103 wins.
1 away from WS.
I think Cashman and Girardi know what they are doing.
Andy will get it done tomorrow. 6 innings. 3 runs. 1 innings from pen, 2 from Mo.
Sound familiar, doesn’t it.
champ809
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:15 pm
in 9 appearances out of the pen in the 2009 playoffs Joba has given up 2 RUNS TOTAL!!!! that’s atrocious!?!?!??
he has given up a few hits but again he was adjusting to going back to the Pen but other than last night and game 3 of the ALCS he’s gotten out of it. it hasn’t been pretty or ‘07 vintage Joba (until last nite) but he’s been effective which is why Joe’s moved him up in the pecking order!
Moronic!
==========================================================
champ – i’m not going to debate this with you back and forth – if you are just going to look at the stats, and haven’t bothered actually watching the games, then there is nothing i can do to convince you – not that i’m trying to you are entitled to your opinion – yes joba looked good striking out those 3 batters – but have you seen him pitching in any other games this postseason…wasn’t he the pitcher that gave up all those hits and then rivera had to come in with bases loaded and got everyone out (i know there were a few scenarios like that and i’m sure joba had a hand in at least one of them)? so you see he only gave up 2 runs but if it wasn’t for rivera it would have been higher..stats are nice but you actually have to watch the games to understand whats going on…
by the way you want to ban some dude on this blog but you are breaking the rules yourself by calling people names… should you be banned as well then?
Because Your trade ideas don’t make any sense!
ex. The Braves have 11 starting pitchers and Burnett would be a #5 starter in ATL as Hudson,Jair,Vazquez and Hanson are all better than AJ and make far less $. The Braves also want to trade a starter and dump some $ to strengthen their lineup and would not want to take on AJ’s contract as they didn’t want him @ that price last year. So and the idea of trading Joba,Hughes,Montero,AJax and Romine for Halladay should and would get Cashman fired. It’s moronic.
the RedSox got schilling for nothing because the Diamondbacks were bankrupt and the Phils trading Abreau to us to dump his contract,because they thought he was a loafer and because CJ Henry the main prospect we traded was athletically compared to ARod coming out of high school…
I’m not overly enthusiastic about spending $$$ and years on Lackey. If the Yankees are unhappy about signing AJ, that’s their problem – they made the mistake. SJ, are you prepared to say now that it was a mistake? If I recall, you thought this was a good risk to take. Was AJ a # 4 last year? If not, then I don’t see how one year he goes from whatever to a #4. Oddly, he’s handled NY very well – it’s not like he’s blown up at the media or he’s been a bad teammate.
I’m not a huge Joba fan, but I think it’s a mistake to give up on him as a starter. I’m also not sure I agree that this team will be better next year. The lineup is older, we don’t know what we’re going to do with Damon and Matsui and we won’t have Wang for at least half the year. I expect the Yankees to be good, but this good? I don’t think so…….and the rotation has question marks.
AJ is 37 yrs old right now, last time pitched on short rest was 3 years ago. In 2003, he was 31 yrs old, 6 yrs younger.
Of course I wish I worry too much.
You know, I find it interesting about newspapers sales and overblown headlines, at least regarding my favorite sports teams.
If my team has won – I’m all over that paper. Every paper I can lay my eyes on.
If my team has lost – I don’t even glance its way. I don’t want to rehash a loss (well, not in a passive environment where I don’t get the opportunity to have a give-and-take, like here or on the phone with friends).
If the parade happens in Philly — and I think the technical term for that kind of thing in Philly is a ‘riot’ — then it will have been a collective failure and AJ will deserve as much credit for game 2 as blame for game 5. Which is already true, in fact.
Or did you mean that the Yankees will have a parade in Philly too?
“We pwn your town, suckas!”
I am not a fan of Lackey either. Do not know his stats, but he resembles a fat lug. I guess if there is nobody better, then fine. But if we could Roy for just one of Joba or Phil, which would be a drop in price from both Joba and Phil, I might do that. I just cannot see spending another 80+ million on a guy who looks like he is an injury waiting to happen.
Yes, I know, AJ Burnett is or was actually very injury prone. That is why you guys should appreciate his effort this year. This might be the first year he did not get injured. I could be wrong though.
Oops. Is that wrong? AJ’s pitched bad enough to have 2 losses.
The postseason’s been so long. But I’m not complaining!
“Andy Pettitte has 16 post-season wins.
AJ Burnett has 1.”
Wins? Really? You’re comparing pitchers’ abilities based on wins! What is it 1985?
Agree Hokiehill.
You have to think that if Manuel had any faith in the rest of his pitchers he would not have had Lee throw so many pitches that he could only use him for 2 games.
exactly your sure Joba had a had in one of them…you haven’t been watching the games!!! that happened once! game 5 in Anaheim he gave up the double to Rivera and the sinle to Kendrick and Joe pulled him.
Earlier he struck out Vlad in the 7th with a man on third he struck out Cuddyer in game 2 i think in the 7th to preserve the lead and inhis other appearences he come on an got some ground ball outs to hold the games. go watch the games…like i said hasn’t always been pretty but for the most part he’s been effective.
LOL.
Doom and gloom posts for 2010.
Talk about beating a dead horse.
What a joke.
Adam November 3rd, 2009 at 3:30 pm
“Andy Pettitte has 16 post-season wins.
AJ Burnett has 1.”
Wins? Really? You’re comparing pitchers’ abilities based on wins! What is it 1985?
Go look at the eras then
SJ
Not following your point on this.
AJ doesn’t have 16 postseason wins in his 5 starts so he is a bad pitcher? To borrow Pedroia’s quote, he “is not magic”.
If you want to make the point that Burnett hasn’t handled pressure and adversity well all the time, I agree.
If you are making the point that he is a bad pitcher, I’ll agree to disagree.
“I’m also not sure I agree that this team will be better next year. The lineup is older, we don’t know what we’re going to do with Damon and Matsui and we won’t have Wang for at least half the year. I expect the Yankees to be good, but this good? I don’t think so…….and the rotation has question marks.”
Zero credibility. ZERO.
Francesa: “I think it’s clear that next season Joba will be the set up guy, Hughes will be back in the rotation, and the Yankees sign another starter.”
Nothing is “clear” and I think things are very much up in the air concerning Hughes/Joba. And I’d like to think that the Yanks would be hesitant to spend money on another starter.
So, if he answered, “I don’t know, I’m just not seeing the ball well right now,” you’d be happier with that answer?
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Well that would be the right answer. Obviously when they do interviews things don’t always come out right. You could see in his face he was very uptight because he isn’t hitting and he knew the questions were coming. Hopefully he can have a big game tomorrow. His swings have been better from the left side.
If the parade happens in Philly — and I think the technical term for that kind of thing in Philly is a ‘riot’ — then it will have been a collective failure and AJ will deserve as much credit for game 2 as blame for game 5.
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We can blame AJ for the riot too.
Or maybe Posada.
Or the ump..
Not quite sure who to blame.
It’s the manager’s job to put players in a position to succeed and avoid purposely putting them in position where they are likely to fail. AJ was far more effective any way you want to cut it at Yankee Stadium this year than he was on the road. When you add in pitching Burnett on 3 days rest for the first time all year, it was less than surprising that he failed. Still, AJ has to do better than give up 6 runs and 4 walks regardless.
Pettitte’s past performance on 3 days rest is irrelevant here in 2009. It’s bogus to draw a line from 1996 to 2009. Our biggest concern should Andy’s multiple references about his legs being “gassed” during his last start. There’s no questioning his mental stamina. Let’s hope hope he’s mentally tough enough to give us 6 ininngs with the lead.We’ll be celebrating in the streets soon after.
new thread
champ809
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Because Your trade ideas don’t make any sense!
ex. The Braves have 11 starting pitchers and Burnett would be a #5 starter in ATL as Hudson,Jair,Vazquez and Hanson are all better than AJ and make far less $. The Braves also want to trade a starter and dump some $ to strengthen their lineup and would not want to take on AJ’s contract as they didn’t want him @ that price last year. So and the idea of trading Joba,Hughes,Montero,AJax and Romine for Halladay should and would get Cashman fired. It’s moronic.
the RedSox got schilling for nothing because the Diamondbacks were bankrupt and the Phils trading Abreau to us to dump his contract,because they thought he was a loafer and because CJ Henry the main prospect we traded was athletically compared to ARod coming out of high school…
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OK so in your opinion my trades are dumb – thats Ok if you feel that way, why should that warrant me getting banned? I may not agree with what you say but i will defend your right to say it. Plus you don’t have to be bankrupt to try and shed salary – and hudson has pitched the equivalent of a season the last 2 years and you also forgot to mention they have derek lowe…having said that have you learned that you can never have enough pitching…what the yankees are going through this postseason should tell you that. Would it hurt if cashman calls whomever the braves gm is and asks do you want this guy? if it means you can get lackey for the money AJ costs why not – the worst that can happen is he hangs up on cashman. Calm down brother, this is just a dumb old blog – it doesn’t count in real life…
Nick it works, all the way around. Definitely will go down as a collective failure if there is celebratory rioting in PA, not really looking to pin it on the pie man. A Yankees parade through Philly would be fair, it would serve all the displaced New Yorkers there who can’t make it to the one down the Canyon of Heroes (god willing, fingers crossed, no jinxes, etc.)
Michael Kay is a moron. ALmost as bad as Fatcessa.
He’s criticizing all his callers who have the “nerve” to defend starting AJ last night.
He’s only looking at one side of the issue.
To be fair if you want to be mad at anyone; be mad at Cashman for loving the prospects too much that he refused to even look at getting Lee or Halladay. Hell, Cashman was too afraid of upsetting the fans that he wouldn’t even do the low risk/high reward move of picking up Pavano.
“The Braves have 11 starting pitchers and Burnett would be a #5 starter in ATL as Hudson,Jair,Vazquez and Hanson are all better than AJ and make far less $.”
Hanson and Jurrjens are exactly why we need to develop Hughes and Joba into starters. Young pitching can be just as good as the big time free agents at a fraction of the cost.
Burnett needs some help with his ‘head.’ He was physically able to pitch on short rest but he never got his head into the game and was lacking confidence. So, the stats didn’t matter for AJ (3-0) on short rest, which we all know was for regular season. But, Pettite has more post-season experience so he should be OK, esp back home in Yankee Stadium.
# Andrew November 3rd, 2009 at 3:12 pm
“I don’t even think they need another ace-type pitcher. They need a solid # 3. Someone who won’t ….you know melt down.”
I think the problem is that AJ is their #3 pitcher and they will still be looking for a #2, or if not, fooling themselves into believing that AJ is a #2 caliber guy. And before I get attacked for being too negative towards the precocious pie-man, yes he contributed wonderfully this year at times and won important games so far in October.
But, he is so brutally inconsistent. Maybe Pettitte comes back but either way, age is not on his side. Hughes could develop rapidly as a starter next year, or Chamberlain could progress, but that’s a lot of question marks. I think they need another veteran presence in the rotation come this offseason, which will hopefully begin tomorrow night.
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Andrew,
I’m sorry but your comments are far too lucid and congenial for this blog. And frankly, I’m having trouble computing them because of it.
Please come back when you’re either helplessly inebriated or have suffered a serious head injury and we’ll pick it up from there.
Or in other words, I couldn’t agree with you more.
i’m sorry it was a figure of speech not that you should literally be banned.
i’m exasperated with the notion that we should just continually trade away our future for someone else’s aging fading star….
the Dynastic Yanks of the ’90’s were not built using that approach and in fact it was the “prospect hugging of Bernie,Mo,Jeter,Andy and Jorge that laid the foundation for 15 years of excellence and perenial winners.
It’ll be Cash’s refusal to give away the Jobas’,Hughes’,AJax,Cano,Montero,Melancon,Wilkins DeLaRosa and such that will be the foundation of the next great group of Yanks.
The route that you are espousing we win this year,which we’re going to do anyway,and in 2 years we have a team full of declining 37-30 year old players with obscene contracts and $250 million dollar 65 win team. Who wants to see that happen?
Last time I checked baseball was a team game. A team wins or loses. I am sure the players do not sit around the locker room bashing or blaming each other. They are a team. I sure wish fans would think the same way and be part of the team and not bash each other or the players and put their shoulders to the collective fan wheel and root for their team. I just don’t get the bashing and it is unsportsmanlike. Just my viewpoint.
JeterHughesJoba
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:49 pm
Michael Kay is a moron. ALmost as bad as Fatcessa.
He’s criticizing all his callers who have the “nerve” to defend starting AJ last night.
He’s only looking at one side of the issue.
To be fair if you want to be mad at anyone; be mad at Cashman for loving the prospects too much that he refused to even look at getting Lee or Halladay. Hell, Cashman was too afraid of upsetting the fans that he wouldn’t even do the low risk/high reward move of picking up Pavano.
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JHJ be careful thinking like that may get you banned on this website…
Well said.
Frankly I’m not a big fan of people pointing their fingers at everyone and throwing blame around. Baseball is a game where you can throw your ace out one day and he’ll be lights out and the next they are knocking him around the park. Numbers and stats only go so far. Truth is we are in the position to win #27… I can almost feel it, and as a lifelong Yankee fan, I have faith in Andy and am looking forward to watching him close this out and restore the Pinstripe Dynasty. So everyone needs to stop pointing fingers and just root for your team and enjoy this!
*27* here we come!
GO YANKS!!!
JeterHughesJoba
he wasn’t afraid to do anything but he wasn’t going to robbed by opposing GMs to appease fans like you who are clueless.
The Yanks will be World series winners tommorow night and will have gone 11-3 in the postseason and you’re mad that Halladay won’t be poppin’ bottles with us?
Adam
that is exactly the point and that is why Cash and the Braintrust are not going to give up on these guys when they understand the process.
My only question which has not been discussed is why not a pinch runner of Matsui in the 9. Could have gone to hit and run with Jeter and stayed out of double play.
Cashman needs to go: “To be fair if you want to be mad at anyone; be mad at Cashman for loving the prospects too much that he refused to even look at getting Lee or Halladay. Hell, Cashman was too afraid of upsetting the fans that he wouldn’t even do the low risk/high reward move of picking up Pavano.”
you don’t know baseball!!!!!
I would have pitched Gaudin. They were playing with house money. Burnett is mediocre at best away from Yankee Stadium.
pettit is old – he is done — the phillies have seen him enough that they will stay the out of zone pitches and he can’t get them out in the zone — not andy’s fault but he would have a better chamce on full rest — no one at 38 is what he she is at 28 — facxt of life – giradi is an idiot — he can only be lucky at tis point but he is channelling the 2004 st joe
– with a 3-1 lead gaudi and the pen would have likey held the phils to less than 8 runs — but even if losing burnett would be on full rest for game 6 and pettit for game 7 — i’d like andy better there than sabbathia on short rest but take your pick ther’ed be a choice
maybe the yankees bats wake up – 1-9 and they score 20 runs and it doesn’t matter
wells says knock utlet down — heck just stay out of his natural swing plane — and stop grooving pitches t0 .20 hitters – everyone who got to the majors can hit a fastball in the middle of the plate — and most will catch the third centered curve in succession — we need a liitle brain power at the right time