Welcome to the GM meetings
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- November
- 9
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Let’s consider this the official start of the offseason.
The General Managers Meetings take place today through Wednesday in Chicago. As a general rule, this week is not nearly as exciting as the December Winter Meetings. Not the same number of hot stove rumors. Not nearly the same wheeling and dealing.
But, things can and do happen here. You can’t put this many GMs in one place and not see the potential for significant conversations, even if those conversations simply set the stage for big announcements in the future.
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on Monday, November 9th, 2009 at 8:00 am by Chad Jennings.
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Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Hopefully, Cashman will get us a really early Christmas present/ post celebration hangover gift for us.
mlbtraderumors predicting lackey to the yankees
John Lackey – Yankees. Last winter’s strategy of signing the best two starters and the best hitter available contributed to the Yankees’ World Series title. With rotation question marks after C.C. Sabathia and A.J. Burnett, it makes sense that the Yanks will pursue the best available starter in Lackey.
Lets trade for Lebron and put him in left.
Sheesh Lackey. Might as well trade for Halladay also and Feliz Hernandez. Then all of our starters can be #1 guys. Pettitte can come back to pitch in relief.
I like Cano, but man is it overstating it to say he’s the best hitter the Yankees have developed since Mattingly. Jeter is a far better hitter – and he’s got loads of natural ability. Exactly why does Cano have more? I’ve actually forgotten about Bernie Williams (shame on me), but he could hit for average and power…….he was another wonderful hitter. Until Cano can get over his issues with batting higher than 6th, he will never live up to his full potential.
LOL MLB traderumors…..they don’t know jack. Every publication automatically assumes that the Yankees will spend $$$$ on every big time FA….
M, wow – morally reprehensible? I don’t agree at all. I don’t want Lackey either, but if the Yankees decide they need him, they have every right to pursue him without being accused of wrongdoing.
Christina: Pictures from the Yankees Parade
November 9th, 2009 at 8:19 am
Sheesh Lackey. Might as well trade for Halladay also and Feliz Hernandez. Then all of our starters can be #1 guys. Pettitte can come back to pitch in relief.
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nice time to develope a conscious
Betsy,
They have no choice but to assume after what happened with Tex
I don’t want Lackey. I think he’s overrated and has a bad attitude. He’s always showing up his guys when they make errors behind him. We don’t need that kind of guy in the clubhouse.
The Yankees need to make wholesale changes this offseason. They aren’t anywhere close to being a championship caliber team…
I really hope the Yankees don’t get Lackey. I don’t know what it is about that guy, but I’ve never liked him.
It’s nice to finally work at a newspaper you can actually buy at the airport.
25 minutes ago from Tweetie
Pete Abe Twitter
Taking potshots at Lohud. Sure knows how to show appreciation for his career promotion.
I have nothing personal against Lackey, I just don’t want to spend the $$$ and years on him.
Arrgh, I’ve already got baseball withdrawl!!! Someone light the stove already.
With the constant uncertainty of Hughes and Joba’s status, I would think Cashman would be looking around for another starter. I’m not sure he’d aim as high as Hernandez, but I could see him making a run at Halliday or Lackey.
I hope the Yankees do land Lackey. I don’t want this team to do what the Red Sox did last year. Sign a bunch of over the hill ,,, useless,,, injury prone scrubs.
The– Lets throw something against the wall and see if it sticks trick. No !.
Besides we don’t know what Pettite will give us this season. Yes he pitched very very well this season. But who knows about next.
Lackey would prove to be big time insurance incase Pettite gets hurt or doesn’t preform.
And guys . we may hate Lackey . but we know he’s a fierce competitor and a pretty good pitcher ! .
Like Manny
Wow that is a low blow on his part. If not for Lohud and this blog, he wouldn’t be working at the Globe. That was dirty real dirty.
I don’t like Lackey either.
I am going through baseball withdrawal too! I opened the Bergen Record today and didn’t see one baseball article. AWFUL!
“I have nothing personal against Lackey, I just don’t want to spend the $$$ and years on him”
Agreed. Realisitcally he’ll have to be paid more than Burnett and I don’t see the Yankees going there when they’ll likely have Pettitte back and at least one of Joba/Hughes waiting in the wings. I can see them looking into an innings eating low end of the rotation guy to serve as backup though.
ditmars1929
Good news unlike last year when we had to wait 6 weeks for Yankee Hot Stove to start, it starts this Thursday!
so much has been made this season about team chemistry, and picking up team mates…and then you see lackey showing up his team mates when they make an error. The Yankees don’t need that kind of player.
That is good news indeed, Jennifer!
mean tweets by peat abe
It’s disappointing but
he paid the piper
how many comments on his latest blog posts?
He created this blog but it is doing just fine without him.
he traded an international readership for a parochial one.
“so much has been made this season about team chemistry, and picking up team mates…and then you see lackey showing up his team mates when they make an error. The Yankees don’t need that kind of player”
Talent > chemistry
Think a little too much is being made of Lackey glaring at a teammate for an error? How’s that different from what Mussina did for years or Mo’s infamous “catch the ball” directed at the CF (might have been Lofton). That stuff happens from time to time. It doesn’t bring a team down though.
I agree Witten…. .the same fuss was mad about Aj Burnett and look how he turned out!.
IF Lackey did join this team. He’ll know his role.
Who cares a tinker’s damned about Pete Abe? He’s the Boston Globe’s answer to The Daily Planet’s Jimmy Olsen, Cub Reporter and office gofer.
Carl, the difference is that the Yankees needed Tex – they don’t need Lackey. These publications are going to have to start assuming the Yankees are smarter than they have been in the past (before Cash took control) because they are no longer going to be throwing $$$ around indiscriminately.
Wasn’t that one of the complaints about Mussina? That he would glare at an infielder for making an error? Lackey seems like a great competitor – I liked the “fire” he showed when he was trying to get Sciocia to leave him in that playoff game – but I also did notice him glaring after an error.
Now, do his teammates in LA take that personally? Is he glaring at a particular fielder, or just glaring in general? Is it frustration over an error or frustration at a teammate? Are there articles in LA papers that talk about Lackey’s qualities as a teammate? Anything we know is not even second hand – it’s pretty much flying by the seat of our pants – a camera angle during a televised baseball game – otherwise.
What I figure is he’s going to be too expensive for the Yankees, anyway. He’s going to want #1 money, and the Yankees don’t need him as a #1 – more a #2 or #3 guy – and will want to pay him accordingly.
Unless they have an agreement with Pettitte that he will give them his decision earlier than usual, this is going to take some time.
Plus, as has been pointed out, because of the “inconvenience” of being in the World Series (kidding, of course), they haven’t gone in-depth in evaluating their needs for next season. Although I would like to think that some of the self-scouting they did will help them out on that end of it.
I do remember having to wait what seemed like forever for the GM Meetings, the hot stove and the winter meetings. This year, there’s hardly time to breathe. Much better tis way!
I couldn’t believe there was nothing in the Star Ledger baseball related – well, not “nothing” – there was a tiny blurb about the Phillies releasing Pedro Feliz.
Guess who wants Nady……the Cardinals.
I was reading http://www.stltoday.com it seems they aren’t willing to pay 20mm per year for Holiday,after giving up 3 prospects 1 of whom was their top player.They want Bay if Sox
can’t close the deal.
The MLB rumors is one guy’s uneducated guess. It’s like Jon Heyman and has about a 10% accuracy rating.
Erica-if you’re there, head over to Google. I was just a day late!!!
GB, I don’t think many of the people on this blog really give a tinker’s damn about PeteAbe. However, I think many do in fact enjoy a certain amount of satisfaction in seeing him getting less than 20 comments per post on a VERY crappy blog. Have you checked it out yet, just for curiosity. I mean, it is really bad.
LOL GB……
The Yankees need another solid pitcher because of Joba and Phil, but they do not need Lackey. Cash is going to have to be creative as no team ever wants to help the Yankees – see last trading deadline.
Nobody should be willing to pay Holliday or Bay $20M. I don’t blame the Cardinals.
Exactly, GB – it’s just some guy spouting gibberish; I doubt he’s put any real thought into it.
Newsday didn’t have any baseball stuff, either. Right now, I’m looking forward to the WS DVD….and hopefully YES will do a special on this team (if they don’t, then that’s a bad job by them). After that, unfortunately, it’s all going to be about next year – even though I still want to relish this year and this team.
There is one page, inclusive of two articles, of baseball stuff in the NY Post today.
I personally do think the Yankees need Lackey.
As nothing more than an insurance policy for Pettite. We don’t know how Pettite will pitch this season.
If the price is right . Take Lackey. because we know teams hate the Yankees and won’t trade with us.
I’d like the Yanks to start the process to explore what it might take to get either 1) Curtis Granderson, or 2) Grady Sizemore.
Granderson would be a huge star in New York, and a very good fit for the Yankees.
ditmars1929
November 9th, 2009 at 9:10 am
GB, I don’t think many of the people on this blog really give a tinker’s damn about PeteAbe. However, I think many do in fact enjoy a certain amount of satisfaction in seeing him getting less than 20 comments per post on a VERY crappy blog. Have you checked it out yet, just for curiosity. I mean, it is really bad.
————————————————————
I have no reason to read his BS. I didn’t bother reading 2/3rds of what he wrote on here, either. I only come on here to see what a few people post and converse with them. The biased “reporting” doesn’t interest me in the least.
Erin
November 9th, 2009 at 9:10 am
Erica-if you’re there, head over to Google. I was just a day late!!!
*********
I checked at like 12:01 this morning. LOL. It’s the Count von Count!!!!
“If the price is right . Take Lackey. because we know teams hate the Yankees and won’t trade with us.”
What’s the right price though? Is 5 years $17M-$18M the right price?
Chad…besides checking in with Cashman, keep your ear on Seattle and Toronto.
My guess is that for the price and production, NYY can’t do much better than resigning their own and then tweak the roster. Most of what they do won’t happen until after they set the roster in preperation of the Rule 5 Draft. NYY has a lot of names that need protection.
Erica – always OPPC
November 9th, 2009 at 9:19 am
Erin
November 9th, 2009 at 9:10 am
Erica-if you’re there, head over to Google. I was just a day late!!!
*********
I checked at like 12:01 this morning. LOL. It’s the Count von Count!!!!
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OK, guesses for tomorrow? I say Grover.
John in Ohio:
Both guys are signed to long term deals. Granderson thru 2013 (’13 is a club option year) and Sizemore thru 2012.
Sizemore’s deal is relatively short money. $5.6M for next year. $7.5 in 2011 and $9M for 2012.
Granderson’s is a little more. $5.5M for 2010 then it goes to $8.25M, $10M and $13M over the three years thereafter.
It’d take a ton to get either of them, IMO.
17. Aroldis Chapman – Red Sox. They’ve been heavily involved with Chapman from the start, and may consider him a long-term investment worth more than $20MM.
____
MLB Trade has Chapman going to boston. Someone needs to remind whoever writes that that chapman isnt japanese or white american.
chapman will be a yankee if they want him.
Written
Is 5 years $17M-$18M the right price? thats a little high. both in years and money….. But if all trade ideas have been explored. and with money coming off the books. You might have to ponder it.
Just because we don’t know how Pettite will pitch. and nobody will trade with us.
All things point to Boston going on the cheap this offseason.
http://www.boston.com/sports/b....._fla_firm/
Betsy, I’m sure that YES will put a few Yankee season specials together. This is their first WS title since the Network started, so, they have a lot of profiles, stories and footage to work through. I’m sure that a 2009 season in review sort of show is being developed, starting from the last winter meetings through the WS. About 90 minutes to two hours worth.
Got lots of flack for suggesting yesterday that the Yankees might deal Cano for a young pitcher (Matt Cain was the name I suggested).
I don’t think it’s likely but I still think it’s possible. As for who would replace him at 2nd; well there are lots of options:
FA – Orlando Hudson, Felipe Lopez, Jerry Hairston.
In house – Ramiro Pena or Kevin Russo
I also think there’s the possibility of the Yankees trading for Dan Uggla – but not as a 2nd baseman. He would make an intriguing candidate to play LF though.
“Is 5 years $17M-$18M the right price? thats a little high. both in years and money”
Steve:
It is high. But you need to consider the baseline. Why should Lackey settle for a dime less than Burnett’s 5 years at $16.5M per when he’s been the better of the two pitchers for the past several years?
tex’s friend
November 9th, 2009 at 9:25 am
17. Aroldis Chapman – Red Sox. They’ve been heavily involved with Chapman from the start, and may consider him a long-term investment worth more than $20MM.
____
MLB Trade has Chapman going to boston. Someone needs to remind whoever writes that that chapman isnt japanese or white american.
****************
LOL
I agree with you-I think Chapman becomes a Yankee
Oh my goodness, Betsy. I guess you don’t know me very well. That comment about Lackey was a play on my comment about the mets. Plus people think we’re morally reprehensible because we sign every big free agent in sight. See the connection?
Besides, many prognosticators here said no way in bleep that would be getting Tex after getting CC & AJ. I was one of the few that said until Tex signed with another team there was still a chance he’d be a Yankee, payroll be damned.
If you read something from me, and you don’t know if I’m serious or joking then I’m probably joking. But either way, I’m not to be taken seriosly.
Written . .would you do it . 5 years 16 million
Erin
November 9th, 2009 at 9:23 am
Erica – always OPPC
November 9th, 2009 at 9:19 am
Erin
November 9th, 2009 at 9:10 am
Erica-if you’re there, head over to Google. I was just a day late!!!
*********
I checked at like 12:01 this morning. LOL. It’s the Count von Count!!!!
*********************
OK, guesses for tomorrow? I say Grover.
*******
I think you are right. But I am going to say Super Grover!!!
• New York Yankees widen the gulf: The roadmap for the rich to get richer is easy to navigate. Re-sign Damon as a DH; sign Holliday or Bay to play left field; sign Lackey to bolster the starting rotation; re-sign Andy Pettitte(notes) for one more season after offering him arbitration to chase off other suitors. Then, one year from now, sign catcher Joe Mauer(notes) when he hits free agency. Seem implausible? All it takes is that green stuff oozing out of Yankee pores.
this from yahoo sports
are they nuts?
damon over matsui at dh,bay/holliday,lackey & pettitte ?
then mauer
Cano could be traded. But only for Hernandez or a player of this caliber. We’re talking upper stratosphere.
Cain? I don’t know much about him even though I used to listen to Giants baseball a lot. I know he’s no Felix. Or Lincecum. I know that he’s been injured. That he’s struggled. And that he pitches in the NL.
Steve:
I would not. I’d like to think Pettitte is back and Hughes and Joba are part of the rotation. What I’d look for is a 4/5 starter type who can serve as the “sixth starter” in case of injury and/or innings restrictions.
m
November 9th, 2009 at 9:30 am
Oh my goodness, Betsy. I guess you don’t know me very well. That comment about Lackey was a play on my comment about the mets. Plus people think we’re morally reprehensible because we sign every big free agent in sight. See the connection?
Besides, many prognosticators here said no way in bleep that would be getting Tex after getting CC & AJ. I was one of the few that said until Tex signed with another team there was still a chance he’d be a Yankee, payroll be damned.
If you read something from me, and you don’t know if I’m serious or joking then I’m probably joking. But either way, I’m not to be taken seriosly.
————————————————————
Now nobody knows whether to take you seriously about not taking you seriously or not. You Island girls are a confusing lot.
Glad to see there are still a lot of comments to keep me occupied at work today. I’m not going to lie, I really hate all these trade talks. I’m not ready to let go of the 2009 team. I teared up a little last night cause there was no baseball to watch and I got sad ( which is kinda pathetic lol).
My 2 cents: There is no way we trade Cano. And I really don’t like Lackey….
Cano could be traded. But only for Hernandez or a player of this caliber. We’re talking upper stratosphere.
- No way does Cano get traded to Seattle for Felix. How can the GM of Seattle explain that to the fans ? . i don’t care what prospects you throw in either .
Cano for Josh Johnson . may make a little more sense. Because nobody cares about baseball down there.
Cain has great stuff but hadn’t mastered commanding it yet. He’s very young and gets virtually no run support. imo he’s kinda similar to Hughes but throws a Little harder.
m
November 9th, 2009 at 9:34 am
Cano could be traded. But only for Hernandez or a player of this caliber. We’re talking upper stratosphere.
Cain? I don’t know much about him even though I used to listen to Giants baseball a lot. I know he’s no Felix. Or Lincecum. I know that he’s been injured. That he’s struggled. And that he pitches in the NL.
————————————————————
Matt Cain is a very good young pitcher (24 years old) and hasn’t ever been hurt. You may be confusing him with Noah Lowery. I can’t see them trading trading him when they can get their offense from Free Agency. They’re not likely to get power hitters because of that park, though. They’d have to do something about that. They’ll win with pitching, and Matt Cain is one of the best. His problem is getting run support.
Lackey’s going to get #1 type money and he’ll pitch as the #1.
Who needs an ace? The Rangers? Angels. Chicago. Twins. Boston could use pitching, too.
As for Boston going cheap? That means they’re going to do the opposite. But we knew that. They went cheap last season and have $$ burning a hole in their pocket. They’re due for another shopping spree and they’re going to need it to keep up with the Yankees. Their fanbase won’t be happy with another season of these one and done FA failures. Penny, Smoltz, and even Baldelli.
Do we know that Damon can succeed as mainly a DH? It’s not a given. Sheffield could not do it. Giambi could not do it. That’s two examples, there may be more. We KNOW that Matsui is capable of being a full-time DH. I’d like to give the man the benefit of the doubt that he can do some more rehab on his knees this off-season – enough that he can play maybe half the interleague games.
Also, what was the point of developing one’s own starting pitchers if you’re going to keep jumping into the FA pool? I say that does not happen until they get an answer from Pettitte. Lackey may be gone by then. Or, the Yankees tell Pettitte goodbye and take the decision out of his hands. And then they’ve gotten more expensive. And three spots in the rotation are taken up for several years by very expensive starting pitchers.
I’m more or less playing devil’s advocate here. I don’t know nor do I pretend to know for sure what the Yankees will or will not do. We do know they are trying to corrale payroll. We can assume they are at least interested in resigning Damon, and possibly Matsui, if the price is right (so, the ball is not in their court, but the players’ courts, at this time).
I don’t see them making a trade for Halladay, for the same reason they did not trade for Santana. It’s too costly – players plus money, and no guarantee he stays with them once he’s a free agent, and no guarantee they can extend him (last known on that was Toronto would not entertain extension, but I don’t know if this is the team’s decision or Halladay’s).
I honestly don’t know about Bay or Holliday, except that I don’t have a good feeling about either, and that they will be costly in terms of money and years and may block the Yankees out of something better next season. The Yankees have shown they have the patience to wait out a season in order to get who they really want. So Damon and/or Matsui become very important here. And Nady is a question mark as well, though I don’t see it.
I understand what you guys are saying about Seattle not wanting to trade Felix because of what that says to the fans. However how will it look when they let him leave to free agency and get nothing in return. They will trade him at some point but it may be next year. They can’t afford to pay this kid after that
Erica – always OPPC
November 9th, 2009 at 9:32 am
*********************
OK, guesses for tomorrow? I say Grover.
*******
I think you are right. But I am going to say Super Grover!!!
***************
GB7,
haha. Thanks. Yes, Lowry sounds familiar. Still can’t see trading for a young pitcher like that. We have Hughes and Joba. Don’t we need a good 2B with a good bat? We should trade for that Cano guy. I heard he’s smooth.
“As for Boston going cheap? That means they’re going to do the opposite. But we knew that. They went cheap last season and have $$ burning a hole in their pocket.”
I think Boston’s 2010 season could play out a little like the Yankees ‘08 season did. Biding their time while some contracts run out (Lowell, Ortiz, Beckett, etc) in anticipation of reallocating that money to better guys in 2011.
Who plays second base if they trade Cano? Who plays second base as well as Cano, if they trade him? Who hits as well as Cano at 2B if they trade him?
I just don’t see it. For anything. I don’t get how Robi Cano is taken so much for granted.
The three people I’d invite for dinner: (dead or alive)
GreenBeret7, Pete Abe, A referee.
I understand what you guys are saying about Seattle not wanting to trade Felix because of what that says to the fans. However how will it look when they let him leave to free agency and get nothing in return. They will trade him at some point but it may be next year. They can’t afford to pay this kid after that
-Blake you make a good point. But Felix still has 2 years left on his contract and Seattle like the Blue Jays will freeze becuase of fan pressure. And if they do trade Felix. i won’t be to the Yankees. probably some scrub national league team
NYY626
November 9th, 2009 at 9:38 am
Glad to see there are still a lot of comments to keep me occupied at work today. I’m not going to lie, I really hate all these trade talks. I’m not ready to let go of the 2009 team. I teared up a little last night cause there was no baseball to watch and I got sad ( which is kinda pathetic lol).
My 2 cents: There is no way we trade Cano. And I really don’t like Lackey….
*******
I am with you. Hypothetical trade speculation does nothing for me
Cano is not getting traded unless its in a deal for king Felix or maybe kershaw. I can’t even see them trading him in a deal for halladay
Doreen, there’s one other name that you can add to those that have trouble functioning as a DH….Jorge Posada. He’s a career .211 hitter in 194 at bats and a .237 hitter as a pinch hitter in 114 at bats. 9 homers and 45 RBI total. That’s not good.
Two guys the Yankees should take a long hard look at are on their team right now! Xavier Nady and Chin Ming Wang both can really help the Yankees in 2010 and more importantly way beyond. Nady can probably come close to matching Matsuis production this year and play one of the corner outfield spots. He will be a lot cheaper than Holliday in terms of years and money and can serve as a stop gap outfielder until AJAX or possibly Colin Curtis are ready to contribute. Nady, Swisher, Melky, and Gardner can all battle it out in spring training for the starters job. The second factor may very well be Wang. I truly believe the Yankees still envision both Joba and Hughes as top notch starters for a very long time. Joba should be ready to go all out with no Joba rules which should help his mindset.(3.50 era through his first 100IP in 2009 before the 5 days rest/3 inning starts disasters) As far as Hughes his innings will probably be limited in 2010 because of the conversion back to the rotation. In mid July a HEALTHY Wang can then step back into the rotation for the stretch run and Hughes into the pen to limit his innings. Both Wang and Nady should be pretty cheap and accept short deals. After all, Wang when healthy was one of the top pitchers in the AL and Nady would have been starting in 2009.
Doreen,
Full of good thoughts. My impression is that Halladay wants to test free agency. He probably wouldn’t mind winning either. I wonder if Ricciardi had entertained trading within the division and allowed the 72-hour window to negotiate an extension, if Halladay wouldn’t be in pinstripes right now and have a key to the city, too. CC-Doc-AJ, you could get away with a 3 man bullpen!
I entertained the notion (okay, fantasy) of Nady replacing Damon in left field. But Nady’s too close to TJ surgery to part of the Yankees plans except as a possible bench player.
In your guys opinion, with the Boras, length of years, etc, etc. which feels more likely to get done, Damon or Hideki? I think Hideki can be had for cheap and that could get done quickly.
One 2nd baseman that fits in SF for that park is Placido Polanco. He’s not going to cost a ton of money, early 30s and not a flyball hitter with a great glove. He also won’t cost them a strength.
The blue jays overplayed their hand. That’s why they fired their GM. The earlier they trade him the more value he has. Teams aren’t gonna offer as much for a 3 month rental as they would for two years of service. They’ll trade him to whoever gives them the best players
DT – OPPC member
November 9th, 2009 at 9:50 am
The three people I’d invite for dinner: (dead or alive)
GreenBeret7, Pete Abe, A referee.
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Who’s catering the affair? Krispy Kreme?
Why can’t Seattle keep Hernandez? They have the 10th highest payroll now, it is not like they are KC or the Rays.
As far as Cano is concerned, this is the list of players I would trade him straight-up for:
Pujols
Felix H
Lincecum
Mauer
I know none of those teams would trade those guys for Cano, but I would take no less than the proven talent of those players for Robi.
There may be a few others I am forgetting, but having a young, cheap, offensive force who is outstanding defensively cannot be overstated. Also, growing up with the team is a very important aspect as well. We are talking a future HOF if he just does what he has done for the balance of his career. #s like RISP and playoff avg will change from year to year. Just ask Arod.
“In your guys opinion, with the Boras, length of years, etc, etc. which feels more likely to get done, Damon or Hideki? I think Hideki can be had for cheap and that could get done quickly”
I think to some degree Abreu’s deal sets the market for guys like Damon and Matsui. Perhaps less so for Matsui since he can’t effectively play the field. With Abreu getting 2 years, I’m thinking Damon is going to at least that as well. Not as sure on Matsui.
You guys may be expecting way too much out of Colin Curtis. He’s not a power or speed guy. He’s not going to be much more than a #4 outfielder. I may be wrong, but, I don’t think that he can match Cabrera’s play, on offense or defense.
My $0.02 on the Pete Abe comments – this blog is huge because of his dedication and hard work. His comments could be annoying at times, but they were more often very insightful, and I miss that.
I do, however, get a bit of evil satisfaction seeing that his new blog gets few comments (but that is partly due to the fact that you have to register to comment), mainly because it shows that he gave up something decent over here for that job in Boston. But in the end, who can argue that he made the right decision for him?
Two reasons seattle won’t re-sign Felix if he hits free agency
1. He will likely be the first 200 million dollar pitcher. Without a huge hometown discount the mariners aren’t doing that.
2. Their history. They have had three of the greatest players of all time. Arod griffey and randy Johnson. Did they keep any of those? The answer is no. Ichiro badly wanted to stay there and that’s the only reason he did
to the folks that don’t think the yankees need another good starting pitcher – here is a scenario to consider..
game 5 of the 2010 ALDS against the angels (pettite and cc pitched games 3 and 4) who would you rather see pitching in that game, AJ Burnett or John Lackey? (also consider if you pick AJ then Lackey is pitching in that game AGAINST the yankees)
its the same scenario they had with Teixeira and the redsox last year – if you sign Lackey (which they desperately need a real #2 starter)then you take him away from the Angels leaving them to fill that hole with one of their many great minor league starters (sarcastic)..
Also, to be considered, any trade value for Cano would be reduced by the fact that Polanco and Orlando Hudson are on the market this year. Why would a team give up premium talent when they can get a decent 2B for money only? And the money for either of those two shouldn’t be that much more than what Cano is making now. Maybe less.
Mark in Tampa
November 9th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Why can’t Seattle keep Hernandez? They have the 10th highest payroll now, it is not like they are KC or the Rays.
As far as Cano is concerned, this is the list of players I would trade him straight-up for:
Pujols
Felix H
Lincecum
Mauer
———————————————————
cano does not come close to getting any one of those players straight up
try adding joba & another prospect & pray
I agree that Wang should be resigned since he was clearly a victim of injuries and could return to that 19 win pitcher that lead all of baseball in wins for a 2 year stretch. He wants to be a Yankee, especially after the class they showed in having him be with the team for the WS. He’ll be relatively cheap and can slot in as a #3 or 4 starter, rather than the #1 or 2 that they had him as a couple of years ago.
That stupid base-running injury probably cost the Yanks a playoff appearance a year ago, though had they made the playoffs in ‘08, maybe they don’t sign the big 3 freeagents that got them to the promised land…
“nd the money for either of those two shouldn’t be that much more than what Cano is making now. Maybe less.”
Cano’s salary jumps to $9M next season, so it should definitely be less.
Lincecum is a blown out shoulder waiting to happen
lol. Rich Hill has a cat named G-Love.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....id=4629546
bru,
If you read the rest of my post, you would understand that I know that. I am saying that those players are all I would accept for Cano. And I know that won’t happen. We hear all the time that teams sa they would have to be blown away to trade a certain player. Yet, when we have a great young player, we undervalue them. If I was the Cashman, one of those 4 players is what it would take to convince me to give up Cano.
Who plays second base if they trade Cano? Who plays second base as well as Cano, if they trade him? Who hits as well as Cano at 2B if they trade him?
I just don’t see it. For anything. I don’t get how Robi Cano is taken so much for granted.
—————————————–
Doreen –
A couple of thoughts:
1. Cano’s numbers are impressive but, as I’m sure you know, he padded a lot of his numbers in blowouts.
2. I would make the trade-off from his offense to a stronger rotation if I can get a player who can represent as strong, if not stronger, an option defensively.
3. Kevin Russo, a prospect 2b in AAA, put up very strong offensive numbers last year and could step in for Cano both with the glove and bat
I would love for the Yankees to signLackey. He is a quality starter who would make the team better. Will it happen? I strongly think not. Too much money, that is unless Pettitte decides to retire. Then, all bets are off.
The Halladay and Hernandez ideas are certainly exciting thoughts, but I doubt we could reach any deal with the Jays and the Mariners would be nuts to trade Hernandez.
The team does need, in my opinion, another starter who can pitch 180-200 innings of 3rd or 4th starter quality. There is no way to count on both Hughes and Joba to be the 4th and 5th starter. Count on one but not the other. Wang cannot be relied upon. He might be a mid-season help. Emphasis on “might”. This team needs more pitching depth(as does every other team).
austinmac –
i agree with your post. I’d love to see Lackey as well. .if not . who else would you like to see
GB, I’m looking forward to those shows. I’ll tape them and watch them all winter long; YES does a good job with that kind of programming…..
Kevin Russo is strictly a singles hitter with zero power and somewhat above average speed. He’s not as good defensively as Cano. How about trading Russo in a deal? He’s also closing in on 26 years old.
Getting Lackey would be ridiculous.
Sigh.
Hughes and Chamberlain need to fit in there somewhere.
M, lol…..oops, sorry! I was watching the tail end of the George Steinbrenner special on YES last night and he said at one point, in essence, that he doesn’t care what anyone thinks (meaning whiny fans, other clubs, etc….). That’s how I feel. Now, I don’t think the Yankees need Lackey, BUT if they decide they do, it will only have been after a great deal of thought. Like George, I also don’t give a hoot what anyone thinks; people are going to hate the Yankees, so let em hate on them some more.
Mark in Tampa
cano is a great 2nd baseman but he is replaceable
maybe not in raw numbers but if we are weaker at 2nd base but stronger elsewhere you have to consider it
betsy
November 9th, 2009 at 10:21 am
GB, I’m looking forward to those shows. I’ll tape them and watch them all winter long; YES does a good job with that kind of programming…..
————————————————————
Yeah, they do. Yankee Magazine with Nancy Newman is one of their better programs, and she does well with the presentations.
m -
Halladay to the Yankees is a pipe dream. Even now, I don’t believe the Blue Jays would deal with the Yankees. And I really think one year from now, when he’s a free agent, the time may have passed. (Maybe not, though.)
Chip -
I have seen Kevin Russo play. He’s okay, I guess. But I don’t think he’d be ready to jump from AAA to the majors. Maybe GB7 has a bit more insight to that. In any event, I do not subscribe to the “padded numbers” theory, so no, I don’t “know” that Cano padded his numbers in blowouts. What? As if blowing out another team is a bad thing. Usually, in those blowouts, EVERYONE has a heck of a day. So only the runs and hits in the first couple of innings count? So, all the Yankees runs and hits that came off of bad relief pitching don’t count?
And I don’t believe there is a stronger option defensively right now.
gb7 -
I think Colin Curtis may be a “sleeper” player. He definitely caught the attention of my husband and me earlier in the season in Trenton. He’s got something. Maybe it isn’t quite enough, but I don’t know…
The Yankees are not going to sign Lackey and they aren’t going to trade Cano.
I personally dont see King Felix getting traded this offseason. He is under team control for the next two seasons. He will most likely will eventually get traded just not now. As far as Lackey, I would love Lackey in the Yankees rotation but I dont see it happening.(Seattle will make a run at him to pair with Felix to overthrow Anaheim) He is going to want number number 1 starter money and years. (more than Burnetts contract which he has earned). The Yankees already have Burnett and CC making huge money.
gb7 -
Agree that Nancy Newman does a good job on Yankees Magazine. She is much better scripted than non-scripted in the studio post- and pre-game.
If you’re looking for a guy who can be a 4/5 type and eat up some innings, maybe a short term deal for a guy like Jon Garland, who is 30 years old, has considerable AL experience, and has averaged 200 IP and a slightly better than league average ERA over the past 8 seasons, makes some sense. 200 IP and a 4.50 or so ERA on this team is a 13-15 game winner.
Hmm, Sab, I seem to remember AJ coming up rather big in the biggest game of the entire season. Naturally, though, his game 5 stinker is what remains in fans’ memories – what a surprise. We need another pitcher, we don’t need Lackey. I’m too tired to debate AJ anymore, but as far as I’m concerned, I am good to go with him as our #2.
See, told ya GB7 would have more insight on Kevin Russo.
Cano’s offense at 2nd base is a reason that NYY can deal with a less than stellar bat at other positions. NYY may lose 55 homers and 180 RBI this year and people want to dump another 25 homers and 85-90 RBI. That makes sense.
I seriously can’t believe people are entertaining the idea of trading Cano. He’s probably the best 2B in the AL overall. The Yanks might of had the best infield of ALL TIME this past season. There is a reason why a SS-2B combo has never had 200 hits apiece until this season, 2B that good are rare. You’re not getting the Pujols/Mauer/Utley return for Cano, so why would he ever be traded for. The last thing the Yankees need, is a pitcher from the NL that is unproven in the AL.
As for Lackey, I wouldn’t underestimate the chemistry thing. Who knows how the players felt when Mussina would get annoyed after a fielder made a mistake. I liked Moose, but let’s not forget, they won the year before he got to NY and the year after he left.
Chris, assuming Pettitte comes back I would like to see them go for Harden, perhaps. Possibly Garland. Garland isn’t exciting, but he is capable and reliable.
Everyone seems so concerned over payroll and people’s criticism of payroll. I frankly don’t care. It does matter what the Yankees can afford to spend. If Matsui and Nady don’t come back that is almost $20M right there. Spend $5m to replace Matsui and the rest for Lackey.
As sexy as an allegedly 100mph throwing left hander is, I hope everyone realizes he may never win a major league game. He is certainly a suspect. Some say he throws 100 and some say 92. Most seem to say he needs a lot of work on secondary pitches. He is no more sure than Joba or Hughes and probably a lot less so. Giving him 10s of millions is money the Yankees won’t spend elsewhere. When was the last high priced from a foreign league was worth a ton of money?
Why do Yankee fans insist on signing or trading for every single hot player that becomes available? We HAVE to have Halladay, we HAVE to have Lackey……there’s always someone that we HAVE to have.
Me? The Yankees need another starter or two because Joba and Phil may have their struggles, but we just need solid veterans to give us decent innings. People were so excited about the idea of Joba and Phil anchoring a future rotation for years to come……but now, not so much. Were they only excited because they thought we would get fantastic results immediately? Apparently so…… The Yankees have faith that these kids are going to be top-notch starters, so maybe fans should have a little patience.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! D. It is written is the first to bring up Garland. Which is no surprise because it’s actually a pretty good idea and only bad ones are thrown around here.
I was sooooo against Garland last season because we needed great pitching and he didn’t fit the bill. But if you can get Garland to be a cheap innings eater then why not?
Although, I think Aceves would be better and cheaper. Give Aceves a chance, Cash!
My take on lackey..
He is a good but not great starter. He is past his prime and will decline over the life of the contract he will get. This is the kind of signing that the Yankees made during the years they didn’t win. They paid big bucks and years for players who were just past their prime and were hugely overpaid in the last couple years of their deal.. Lackey will want a ongterm #1 starter money.
Yanks are dealing from a position of strength with the best team in baseball and at least $ 40 Million coming off the books.
To me the first item of business is Pettite. If he’s returning there is less urgency about Lackey or any other starting pitcher acquisition. However if he retires they have to kick the tires on Lackey.
How anyone could not want him is beyond me. They guy is still young, a proven winner and a great competitor. Basides it’s not your money. I don’t think I’d offer $ 1 more than AJ got and if that’s not enough that’s just fine with me. If it is, Pettite and Wang combined to make about that.
It’s inconceivable that Detroit (Granderson) or Cleveland (Sizemore) would be interested in dealing their best all around player.
Should be an fascinating next ten weeks.
We need Figgins! he can play 2b,ss,3b as a backup and the outfield everyday! ARod has to play every third or fourth game as DH! So Figgins can backup! Be the way we won´t lose a draft pick because he´s a Type B free agent!
Also we need to re sign Wang, Pettite and X Nady then you sign a Number 4 or 5 Starter and we have a great roster!
By the way let Matzui go ! and maybe sign damon fpr one year!
Doreen, I just can’t picture Curtis as being more than a #4th outfield type. Maybe I missed something when he was in /Tampa and listening to games on the internet, but, he always seemed to be in a slump. Two half seasons a nd a full season at Trenton and still struggling to get over .260 and even worse at Scranton this year. Maybe he’s a late bloomer, though.
“He is a good but not great starter. He is past his prime and will decline over the life of the contract he will get. This is the kind of signing that the Yankees made during the years they didn’t win”
Same age as Burnett was last year when he got a 5 year deal and his resume is better than Burnett’s.
Beret –
Do you really think that if the Yankees lost Damon and Matsui that they would go into next year with an OF of Melky, Gardner and Swisher? Of course not. If they lose both of those players they will use the money they wouldn’t spend there on another stick.
Let me ask you another question though – if Andy retires – what does this rotation look like?
CC & AJ then what? Hughes will be on inning restrictions (as Joba was this year), I don’t think any of us know for certain what Joba is or where he will pitch in 2010. Wang will be non-tendered and even if he’s not he won’t be able to pitch until August. Sergio Mitre, Alfredo Aceves, Chad Gaudin as the back three in the rotation? That’s not even competative let alone a playoff rotation.
The free agent pitching options are horrible. Lackey, Harden and Bedard are the best pitchers out there and they all come with injury issues. Beyond that what excites you? Randy Wolf? Justin Duchscher? Brett Myers?
If I can get a 24-year old with a strong track record of performance for Cano, I have to do it. I can accept the loss of offense at 2nd and make up for it elsewhere.
Don’t see Lackey coming here. He sees himself as a #1 starter and the Yankees certainly do not need a #1 or #2 nor would they pay that kind of money.
But you can’t underestimate the value of that infield defense this past season. In the playoffs alone, for that mattter.
Runs saved equal fewer runs needed to win.
GB 7 —
Why do you assume people want to “dump” Cano. No one has suggested that. What the heck is wrong with considering the pros and cons of dealing him and what you might acquire in exchange?
m —
Garland eats innings like Livan Hernandez eats innings. He gives up a bunch too. Still, he could be a cheap alternative at the back of the rotation since demand is not likely to be real high.
Robinson Cano has his shortcomings, but he is also on track to become one of the greatest two or three second baseman in Yankee history. That’s no hyperbole.
Take this guy for granted if you wish.
Robinson Cano has his shortcomings, but he is also on track to become one of the greatest two or three second baseman in Yankee history. That’s no hyperbole.
Take this guy for granted if you wish.
I was thinking the same thing M.
Last offseason Garland was mentioned more as an alternative for A.J. or Pettitte. This offseason, however, he might make more sense because he’d fill a diferent need-5th starter who can eat some innings at around league average ERA (4.50-4.90).
It’s not an awful idea.
GB7 -
You’re probably right. A quick look at his stats confirms what you say. There was something about him, though. What I saw in the few games we saw him play, not knowing the stats, I thought he was more accomplished, shall we say.
You simply can’t lose Damon, Matsui and Cano. Those are your three best lefty hitters (not counting switch) in a ballpark that heavily favors left handed batters. I’d advocate not losing any of those 3.
It’s simple. If you resign Damon, Matsui and Andy (for 1-2 years), you are probably the favorites to win for the next two years. You have a team that, albeit is older, has proven they play very well together and have great chemistry. But they have enough depth and talent that if you lose someone to injury, they are still ok. Jeter/Pos and Mo aren’t getting any younger. IF you bring in guys (lackey, holliday, etc) who have played well elsewhere, but not in NY, you risk messing with a winning formula. Sure you could have said the same thing about CC/Tex last year, but they are better than what is available now.
Keep this CHAMPIONSHIP team together, then in two years, you’ll have plenty of FAs to replace these guys with starters, DH, OFs.
Global-could not agree more!
Yankees ability to offset stadium construction costs against revenue sharing dollars owed for this year is going to put dust in a few pockets used to being full of cash.
Doesn’t impact the bigger market teams as much as the smaller market ones but it could make for an interesting hot stove of trades with arbitration eligibles who teams might not be able to sign the paycheck.
Those with spare parts on the farm could have Nordstrom’s taste at The Rack pricing and I do love a bargain!
I am down with cc, aj, pettitte, wang, hughes, joba, aceves, garland/wolf/some other back end guy).
I think Joba comes back strong next year. We know what a healthy wang can do. I think Aceves can start too if they are willing to take him out of the pen.
Global -
Why can’t you lose all three of them? I hate to give any credit to Boston but look at what they did after the 2004 World Series – Damon, Millar, Bill Mueller, Pedro, Lowe, Orlando Cabrera, all key contributors, were let go. And we’ve seen that it was the right way to go.
I think if Cashman was smart in how he replaced them, then yes, all those players could be moved.
Consider the following lineup and rotation:
SS – Jeter
2b – Orlando Hudson
1b – Tex
3b – Alex
LF – Holliday
DH – Posada
RF – Swisher
C – Shoppach (likely to be non-tendered)
CF – Austin Jackson
CC, AJ, Cain, Andy, Hughes/Kennedy/Nova
cano had 85 rbi,103 runs scored & a 350 obp in 637 ab.
melky had 68 rbi,66 runs scored & a 336 obp in 485 ab for basically a 4th of
cano can be replaced
we dont need a 2nd baseman to match or better his numbers just come close while playing well enough defense at 2nd base.
i like cano & think he is the least of our problems but if we had a decent replacement at 2nd base & he can fetch me a good young starter who is cheaper than lackey for now combined with joba or hughes & another prospect if needed i trade him
but i dont think i do it if it is for cano,joba,montero
maybe cano,joba & a lesser prospect or melky/gardner
i dont know if pena can be that player or laird can play 2nd base but if pena can hit .270 wit 70 rbi & a 350 obp all we lose is 12-15 rbi
if i can do a cano,kennedy,ajax & a lesser prospect while keeping hughes,joba,montero i drive cano to the airport for king felix
but i think joba or hughes would have to be a part of it.
86w183
November 9th, 2009 at 10:41 am
GB 7 —
Why do you assume people want to “dump” Cano. No one has suggested that. What the heck is wrong with considering the pros and cons of dealing him and what you might acquire in exchange?
————————————————————
Have you been reading this stuff the last two days? There are more cons than pros in moving Cano. First, you have to assume that Jeter, Posada and Swisher will produce these numbers again. 2/3rds of this board wants him gone, mostly because of idiotic assumptions. There’s probably one better all around 2nd baseman in the AL and that’s Hill. The NL has one in Utley. There’s nothing better on the market and certainly nothing close in the system at this time. Ask the pitchers who they want playing 2nd base for NY. NYY isn’t going to sign a DH, a starting pitcher like Lackey or pay Cain and still need to sign a power hitting corner outfielder and then locate an offensive/defensive 2nd baseman.
I think the comparsion made between lackey and aj has merit and I agree that lackey has a better track record. However lackeys stuff has diminished and burnetts hasn’t. I also don’t think lackey is looking for a Burnett type deal.
how about re-signing pettitte, then plugging in both hughes and joba to spots 4 and 5, and then signing rafael soriano and making him the set-up man?
“I also don’t think lackey is looking for a Burnett type deal.”
Why not?
CC
AJ
Pettitte (if he retires maybe Lackey)
Joba (no innings limit let him rip)
Hughes (innings limit Wang starts in mid Jul/Aug Hughes to pen for stretch run)
Wang (wont be back until midseason, cheap, low risk very high reward)
Aceves (fall back option)
“how about re-signing pettitte, then plugging in both hughes and joba to spots 4 and 5, and then signing rafael soriano and making him the set-up man?”
Is it too soon to feel good about the idea of Robertson as a set-up guy? Soriano is a nice pitcher, but his health is always so iffy.
pat,
Your point about revenue sharing is interesting. How does it work? Is it like welfare? Or do all the teams get an equal share of revenue sharing? And is this the first year that we can take advantage of the building costs? If so, why couldn’t we do it earlier when they were building?
blake,
Lackey may not be looking for it, but he’ll probably get a Burnett type deal. It’s a piss-poor FA pitching class and he is literally the only one worth signing to any significant contract. Besides if he wasn’t looking for a big contract he could’ve just stayed with the Angels (of course he had injuries, but that’s a whole ‘nother story).
Blake,
Why in the world wouldn’t Lackey want at least what AJ got? He’s the best FA pitcher out there. I would be shocked if he’s not looking for even more than AJ got.
Something else to consider with the rotation – AJ was very healthy this year – that has not been his track record.
Doreen
November 9th, 2009 at 10:43 am
GB7 -
You’re probably right. A quick look at his stats confirms what you say. There was something about him, though. What I saw in the few games we saw him play, not knowing the stats, I thought he was more accomplished, shall we say.
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I’ll say one thing about the players like Russo and Curtis….they are always hustling and they trey hard to make of for whatever they lack. Both are good, young guys, but, utility types mostly. Russo might be a good fit for a young cash strapped team, though. I think that’s where their value is. They’re the types that fans love….Luis Sojo types.
Green Beret –
Not saying “dump Cano.” There is a difference between saying “Trade Cano for Jamie Moyer and Pedro Feliz” (dumping) and saying “consider trading Cano for Matt Cain, who is 24, and has been a very productive pitcher who has suffered from awful run support”
Enough with the Felix hernandez for Cano talk. Seattle has zero reason to trade him unless a team moves their farm system to Seattle. They have a year to work out a deal for him. Why trade a bat like Cano for 1 year of Hernandez when you have a chance to sign him for money. It’s the Santana deal all over again. Pena is not a 70+ RBI type and he doesn’t have the base stealing speed to make up for the power loss.
Hey All,
I live in Chicago. Any idea where the meetings are held? Would love to have a chance to shout “thank you” at Cashman!
Chip-
Boston didn’t exactly do very well immediately after they let those guys go. They won the Wild Card in 2005, but lost in the first round. In 2006, they came in 3rd in the division and missed the playoffs. Yes, they won in 2007, but that was because they picked up Beckett, Lowell, DiceK, Manny/Ortiz injecting each other and had homegrown guys to step-in. Yanks should focus on what is best for 2010 season.
As for the line-up:
Consider the following lineup and rotation:
SS – Jeter
2b – Orlando Hudson. Cano is 5 years younger, career batting avg. 25 points higher and is still relatively cheap. Can’t fathom why Yanks make that move.
1b – Tex
3b – Alex
LF – Holliday. Can’t go on St. louis numbers alone. Wasn’t spectacular in oakland, trading a lefty bat for a righty. Will be FA options just as good in 2 years.
DH – Posada. As a DH, Posada isn’t more valuable that other teams DH. He can still catch, that is what gives Yanks edge vs any team (except Twins), b/c of the offensive improvement.
RF – Swisher
C – Shoppach (likely to be non-tendered). See above. Posada is catcher. Cervelli backup.
CF – Austin Jackson. Never played a MLB game. Still behind Melky/Gardner until he proves himself at that level.
CC, AJ, Cain (never pitched in AL or playoffs. Also, not sure why SF trades their pitching, they can pick up offense via FA) Andy, Hughes/Kennedy/Nova
Bottom line is you are taking a WS team, moving around 6 positions/players, and hoping the same result plays out. None of these guys have played a single game for the NYY in the playoffs (look how long it took AROD to come around). Alternatively, for next year, you resign 3 guys, who just won a WS, play very well at Yankee Stadium and for the Yankees. In 2 years, there will be better available guys via FA or trade, to replace them with.
What are some of you smoking with these ridiculous trade scenarios and FA signings?
We just won the World Series, I doubt Cash has any motivation to blow up this team.
Trade Cano? That’s just stupid talk. Only the uninformed fan would suggest such a thing.
Hey let’s trade our 2nd baseman… the guy with 200 hits, 100 runs scored, almost 50 doubles… while batting 7th by the way and playing gold glove defense.
Even though we have no replacement for him at all. Let’s trade him because he struggles with RISP and that’s simply unacceptable to some of you morons. Forget the rest of his game which places him among the best 2nd baseman in all of baseball. That doesn’t matter, right?
If Pettitte comes back there will be no big signings on the pitching staff either. In case you forgot, the Yankees won 103 games this year with the likes of Chad Gaudin and Sergio Mitre starting on a regular basis in the 2nd half of the year. Both those guys are under control for 2010 and when you combine them with Hughes and Joba, as well as AJ, CC, and Pettitte that’s 7 capable starters right there. And that’s not counting Kennedy or Aceves if they decide to let Ace try and crack the rotation.
The re-emergence of Marte this postseason was huge for the team’s bullpen plans for 2010. When he was with the Pirates, Marte wasn’t simply a situational lefty, he was the main setup guy. When you combine Marte with Robertson, Aceves, Melancon, Coke, MO…. there’s 6 bullpen guys right there not counting the 7 starters I listed, all of which obviously cannot be in the rotation at the same time.
The whole point of building depth like this is so you don’t HAVE to overspend on some FA or overpay on a trade. They are positioned to deal from strength,and that cannot be overlooked.
So do you guys think that the yankees are gonna committ that much money and years to another pitchee in his 30s this year. I don’t.. Not unless pertite retires
Chip
November 9th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Green Beret –
Not saying “dump Cano.” There is a difference between saying “Trade Cano for Jamie Moyer and Pedro Feliz” (dumping) and saying “consider trading Cano for Matt Cain, who is 24, and has been a very productive pitcher who has suffered from awful run support”
————————————————————
He’s also a flyball pitcher that pitches in an airport in the NL West.
1 hr and 46 minutes before Diet Coke starts his show swaying Yanks need to get Arroyo somehow !!!
m
Every team team puts 30% of shared revenue into a pool and it is shared equally. 30% of the Yankees revenue could be $100+ million contributed. 30% of the Marlins revenue could be $6 million. Both might receive $30 million back but it would be a net loss for one and a net gain for the other.
Both the Yanks and Mets can offset debt service costs of the new stadiums this year and both are usually amongst the biggest contributors to the pool. That will result in less money in the pool to be shared by all.
“1 hr and 46 minutes before Diet Coke starts his show swaying Yanks need to get Arroyo somehow !!!”
Probably 2 hours and 46 minutes. I’m sure he’ll devote the first hour to skewering the Giants.
I don’t know that I’d compare Lackey to Burnett, but, I’d compare another name that gets bounced around to Burnett….Rich harden. Both have explosive fastballs and at times have trouble controlling it. History of injuries that Burnett seems to finally be over. Harden’s biggest problem is eating up bullpens. They’re lucky to get 5.2 innings a game from him.
Blake-
Aj was 32 going into last year. Lackey will be 31 going into next year. AJ prior to 2009 90-80 record. Lackey going into free agency 100-70 record. Lackey made his debut in 2002. AJ made his in 1999. Lackey has more wins in 2 1/2 to 3 less seasons. AJ never pitched in the post season. Lackey was already a Game 7 winner in the WS. Burnett a history of injuries. Lackeys first trip to DL ever came early this year. Lackey WILL GET Burnett money from someone if not more (hopefully not the Yanks unless Andy retires)!!
pat,
Thanks. That’s revenue or profit? What counts as revenue? Gate receipts, advertising? Is payroll factored in at all?
I know we’ve had this conversation before, but I forgot this lesson!
good points miggs. when you look at it, we really have a lot of pitching.
Don’t worry about Lackey, the Yanks are probably just looking at driving up the price. After the chemistry the team preached last year, I don’t think Joe & Cash are going to throw it away just to sign a guy.
Global -
The problem with saying “maintain status quo” is that you run into a situation like the ones you got with Tampa last year and with the Mets in 2001. Yes, the Yankees won the World Series and emotionally I would love to keep this team together, but realistically you’re talking about keeping 2 position players who have dealt with a number of injuries over the last couple of years and aren’t getting any younger.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that if Holliday hit in the middle of this lineup in this park he would have better offensive numbers than he did in Oakland where there was no reason for any pitcher to ever throw him a strike. Either way, there are other options out there besides Holliday – he’s just one example of how the team could let Damon go and still improve.
Moving Posada to DH (and letting him catch once or twice a week) keeps his bat in the lineup and minimizes the odds of him wearing down over the course of a long season – remember, he’s 38. As for Shoppach/Cervelli – I am fine with them splitting duties behind the dish until Jesus Montero is ready to play.
Jackson is going to compete with Melky and Gardner this spring, I just think Jackson will win that competition.
betsy
November 9th, 2009 at 10:28 am
Hmm, Sab, I seem to remember AJ coming up rather big in the biggest game of the entire season. Naturally, though, his game 5 stinker is what remains in fans’ memories – what a surprise. We need another pitcher, we don’t need Lackey. I’m too tired to debate AJ anymore, but as far as I’m concerned, I am good to go with him as our #2.
============================================================
Betsy although I understand and respect your opinion on AJ – and yes he did come up big in game #2 of the WS as well as game #2 of the ALCS – you can not ignore the fact that he absolutely stunk in the second game he pitched in both series….thats who he is, inconsistent –
in my opinion your #2 starter should not be inconsistent – he should be the same pitcher in about 85% of his starts – you can not tell me that you are 100% sure what you are getting in AJ in 8 out of 10 starts – he may have the best natural ability of all the yankee pitchers but that doesn’t translate into what he brings to the mound every 5 days…add to the fact that he needs his own special catcher (which doesn’t make much of a difference at least away from Yankee Stadium)..
lackey looked good in both starts against the yankees in the ALCS – that is being consistent – you can’t have a “wild card” as your #2 pitcher – also add to that the fact that AJ may not last a whole season (or pettite may not pitch as good next year or joba and hughes may still need to get “more experience”)so in my opinion getting lackey, or equivalent, is not a luxury but a necessity – i would prefer halladay but cashman isn’t going to trade joba or hughes (or montero) to get him so thats why i say go get lackey since he’ll only cost money…
As far as Lackey goes– his career ERA at Fenway is 5.75. His career ERA at the trop is .675
it doesn’t look like a good fit for our team
Did Lackey miss close to 2 years due to TJ surgery and complications thereof?
I get your point about AJ’s career record, but don’t make it sound like AJ’s had way more years.
And for Chip, this makes it 2 straight years that AJ’s been healthy. Could go either way next season.
The only question I have about obtaining another pitcher is where he would fit in. If Andy returns:
CC
AJ
Andy
Joba
Phil
No veteran pitcher is going to sign in order to be AAA backup. If Phil’s starts are going to be skipped to deal with the innings limitations, then Gaudin or Ace can do that. Now, if Phil is going to start the year in AAA, then that veteran starter will help us…but then, what to do with him when Phil gets recalled? Again, Gaudin or Ace could help us fill the spot. I agree we need a solid veteran starter in case Phil or Joba (or both) struggle, but I really don’t know who would sign with the Yankees for this role.
That said, again – we need to be patient. In a few years, Joba and Phil are going to be very good. The Sox were patient with Lester and now, more recently, with Bucholz. The Yankees will do the same with Joba and Phil.
Sab– Great post .. 1000 percent correct
lackey looked good in both starts against the yankees in the ALCS – that is being consistent – you can’t have a “wild card” as your #2 pitcher – also add to that the fact that AJ may not last a whole season (or pettite may not pitch as good next year or joba and hughes may still need to get “more experience”)so in my opinion getting lackey, or equivalent, is not a luxury but a necessity – i would prefer halladay but cashman isn’t going to trade joba or hughes (or montero) to get him so thats why i say go get lackey since he’ll only cost money…
Aceves can be that 6th pitcher.
The only way the yankees get the A level starter is if pettitte retires.
Plus, Wang WILL be back before the ASG.
I don’t think signing another Type A free agent is the right move here. Lackey is a bulldog, sure, but he’s an expensive bulldog both in $ cost and prospect cost.
I was thinking about this yesterday: the Yankees have really grown their farm and seen the dividends of doing so, particularly through the likes of Cano, Melky, Hughes, Joba, and to some extent Phil Coke. We have Jackson on the cusp of getting his shot at the ML level and we’ll likely see Kennedy get another shot this coming season. That’s a considerable number of home grown products.
If they’re bringing back Pettitte, I think they need to get a formidable starter. A 2 or a 3. With that, I think Cashman will scour the trade market for another starter and gauge the asking prices on guys like Felix, Halladay, Josh Johnson, etc. If the price is sky high and unrealistic, then I think Cashman goes to the Free Agent market and looks at Lackey.
I’ve come to terms with the probability of either Jackson or Montero getting dealt. A, AA, and AAA numbers are all fine and dandy but until they show their ability on the big stage, they mean nothing. Heck, look at Shelley Duncan. He’s a monster in AAA and a 10th OF in New York (exaggeration).
There is give and take and in order to get better you have to cut your prospects loose from time to time.
I just hope its for the “right” kind of pitcher.
tex’s friend,
I don’t think the Yankees will be going into 2010 counting on Wang to make any kind of significant impact.
If he is going to be an effective starter again, it will begin in 2011.
by the way – the yankees already have Jon Garland – a few of them actually..they go by the names of Sergio Mitre and Chad Gaudin (amoung others)
and why would they want kelly shoppach? when they have about 12 catchers in the minors just waiting for their chance after posada is gone?
I think retaining Damon and Matsui are nobrainers.
The Mad Prince in Pinstripes, How’d the test go?
betsy,
I think you have to let Joba and Hughes duke it out for that 5th starter slot.
One or the other is going to have to go to the pen in 2009. If we’re going to try and defend our title next year, both of those guys in the rotation is not going to cut it.
I know a lot of people don’t want to hear that, but Hughes’s success in the pen was a remarkable lift at the back end of games. No reason to believe that Girardi won’t keep one of those two in that role.
Which one? Your guess is as good as mine, but I am also looking forward to Robertson making some strides this year.
Yeah . .you can’t count on wang . and we don’t know how Pettite will pitch next season.
We need that Insurance Policy .
The worse thing to do is do what Boston did last season. Sign a bunch of over the hill . unhealthy scrubs ! .
Sign the best pitcher and lets go after 28
Jerkface
November 9th, 2009 at 11:33 am
I think retaining Damon and Matsui are nobrainers.
******
I love when I agree with jerkface. Its so rare
Sab, he does not need his own special catcher…..but let’s just agree to disagree on that. Up until August of this year, AJ was pitching to the tune of a 3.68 ERA. Obviously August counts, but the point is for the vast majority of the year, AJ was very good. He had two brilliant months…….and before that, he was the one who was stopping losing streaks, which people forget. Ok, he was awful in game 5…….but he’s hardly the only SP who was ever awful in a big game. The fact is, game 2 should weigh a great deal more heavily than game 5 – it’s not even in the same universe.
mad prince,
How would Lackey cost us prospects?
Here’s the red flag on Lackey – The Angels (whom it would stand to reason know him best) are not going to offer him a big contract. They are worried about his health and that should tell you all you need to know.
Lackey is just the best of what are a lot of bad options on the free agent market.
If you want the real wild card of the pitching market it’s the guy who took last year off – Ben Sheets. Like Harden and Bedard, a huge injury risk, but also the best pure pitcher on the market. I’ll be curious to see where he lands.
Halladay and King Felix aren’t getting traded. Toronto doesn’t want to end up with the motley crew that Minny got for Johan and will be happy to take the draft picks instead and Seattle is going to add, not sell, this winter thanks to Johjima retiring and Beltre’s contract being up. In fact, I look for Harden and Bay to both wind up in Seattle.
Betsy:
Hughes will be on “Joba Rules” going into next season because he only threw 90 innings this past year, and who the heck knows whether Joba is going to be in the rotation or pen.
Sab, as far as I’m concerned, AJ is healthy and I’m treating him like any other pitcher. He has changed the way he prepares between starts and the way he throws IN starts; I’m not worried about him.
M, First round draft pick?
I love when I agree with jerkface. Its so rare
–
This is probably one of the few situations where you DO reward greatness and get all sentimental and bring back the FAs who got you to the dance.
Damon and Matsui are professionals and consistent. Their decline would be physical, not skill related. Its not like the Rays of 2008 where they got a bunch of fluky pitching performances. Or young hitters who can be figured out. The book is out on both of them and the verdict is in: they good hitters!
Plus this affords the yankees the opportunity to compete for 2010(most likely winning 100+ games again) and then have flexibility next offseason.
Chip,
Neither the Rays nor the Mets were nearly as talented as the 09 Yanks. They were by far the best team in baseball. The Yanks can absorb a decline in the quality of their play (which is still an assumption) and be the best.
Posada is the catcher until he gives you a reason not to play him there. He played great this past season. Unless he is injured or truly shows a decline, he has to remain at catcher. Matsui hasn’t been healthy, but he doesn’t play the field. If need be, you can rotate him with Posada when Cervilli catches. Damon may have had injuries, but he plays through them. He’s played over 140+ games a year, each year as a Yankee. You aren’t committing more than 1-2 years for each of Matsui and Damon. The gamble isn’t that big. If need be, resign Nady for a year to have a good backup. I just don’t like the idea of trading proven players (esp lefties) in NY. I think, even with a slight dropoff, the same team can still win in 2010, and that’s what they should focus on.
Sab,
Re: Shoppach,
If the Yankees lose both Damon and Matsui they move Posada to DH, let Cervelli and Shoppach split duties at C until Montero or Romaine (more likely Montero) pushes his way into the lineup.
mike eff
November 9th, 2009 at 11:24 am
As far as Lackey goes– his career ERA at Fenway is 5.75. His career ERA at the trop is .675
it doesn’t look like a good fit for our team
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mike if i recall corretly AJ’s era against the redsox in prior years at fenway was like 2.30 or something like that, he was also 4-0 with an era of like 2 on 3 days rest in his career – how did that work out this year?… bottom line, past history is not a really good way of predicting what will happen in the future…except of course that Cano will hit .125 with RISP (kidding don’t beat me up)
Totally disagree, Mad Prince. Joba and Phil are starters, they are going to be starters and they will be excellent starters down the line.
2010 really is a transition year for the Yanks. They’re going to try to ride out Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Pettitte, and Damon for one more season while trying to incorporate Hughes, Joba, Jackson, and to a lesser extent Montero, while also finding roles for Aceves, Melky, Gardner, Cervelli, Pena, and Kennedy.
I get the impression that Jackson could be a Victorino type player in CF, good defense and solid bat. And I can see Cervelli taking over for Molina for about 40 games and Jorge catching the rest of the games in 2010 and eventually Montero/Romine will take over in 2011/12. If Montero has any athletic ability the Yanks should seriouisly consider shifting him to left, he fits a need and Romine seems like a much better catcher. In any event, this will be a very interesting offseason for the Yanks, because they could go in a lot of different directions.
Hughes will be on “Joba Rules” going into next season because he only threw 90 innings this past year, and who the heck knows whether Joba is going to be in the rotation or pen.
–
Hughes will have a bigger limit than Joba because his career high in innings pitched is 140. The key will be conditioning for Hughes so he doesn’t run out of gas in the playoffs like he did this year. He is an excellent hard worker in the offseason, so I see no reason to be worried.
I’m more worried about Joba, who won’t be on a limit, coming into camp in shape.
CC + AJ after 1 year in NY, no more jitters = dominance
AP = reliable ownage
Hughes and an unleashed Joba = uh oh!
900 run offense
solid IF and OF defense
lockdown bullpen headed by Saint Mo and his apostles?
=
120 win season
a lot depends on pettitte
if we lose him cashman will not get a garland or a 4th,5th starter
he will go hard after lackey,halladay or trade for another pitcher
it is one thing to give our 4th & 5th spots in the rotation to the kids when we have 3 solid starters
entirely different giving the 3rd,4th & 5th spots to them
you need 3 solid starters & the better they are the better the team
the formula is 3 solid starters,a decent 4th & wing it with the 5th
if pettitte comes back it will depend if cashman has enough faith in joba,hughes & the others for the last 2 spots
any smart baseball person knows that even if pettitte comes back if we can get a solid # 2 or 3 pitcher to slide between cc & burnett or burnett & pettitte & use pettitte as our 4th starter while letting
the kids battle for the 5th spot makes us a better,deeper team
2nd choice will be signing a 4th starter to put behind pettitte & use pettitte as a # 3
the problem with that is what do we do with joba,hughes,wang,mitre,gaudin,kennedy & others
keep in mind that pettitte does not have many years left if he does not retire now
maybe a healthy Ian Kennedy and a more mature one can bring something to the table next year. Yanks have a lot of young arms which is excellent.
Jerkface, Matsui and Damon are going to have to compromise if they want to return. I’m sure the Yanks will make representative offers, but it’s not going to be ideal for them in terms of $$ or years. They both need to understand what the Yankees are trying to do (develop a younger, more athletic, homegrown team) and that the team simply can not lock them into place for years at a time. If they understand and accept that, then they will probably be back. If they don’t, it’s on them and they won’t.
-sab
If the Yankees get Lackey.The Angels will get Halladay,which gets him out of the division and get prospects,bank on it!The Angels were the front runner at this yrs trade deadline to snag him.
Tom in NJ,
Its this Friday actually.
On Wed. I was sitting in class and we took a break and I was following the game on my iphone and was thinking “F this! If I leave right now I can get back in time for the 9th inning.”
So, I packed up my stuff, ran for about a 1/4 of a mile as hard as I could to my truck, drove home, and walked in the door in time to watch Jeter’s AB in the bottom of the 8th.
Needless to say, I hit the books hard this weekend and will be ready come Friday!
Thanks for asking though. I’ll let you know next Monday.
If theres any pitcher the Yanks could get in a trade.. Its Josh Johnson !.
m
The way I understand it, revenue sharing includes local baseball revenue including ticket sales, sales of concessions and Yankee gear and non-YES TV money.
Luxury boxes, YES money and money that can be made outside of baseball activities- Hard Rock, NYY Steak, renting stadium for concerts and conferences is not included.
CC
AJ
Pettitte (if he retires maybe Lackey)
Joba (no innings limit let him rip)
Hughes (innings limit, Wang starts in mid Jul/Aug Hughes to pen for stretch run)
Wang (wont be back until midseason, cheap, low risk very high reward, can possibly return to rotation if healthy and help limit Hughes innings)
Aceves (fall back option)
Kennedy (has been pitching extremely well after injury)
Also, don’t forget re: Damon, he has a shot at the HOF. Yankees offer him the best homepark for his skillset (improving his stats) and the best chance to win a WS (which helps HOF too). All of this may help convince him to accept a deal with slightly less money/years to stay.
betsy,
I agree that Hughes will be a starter and I haven’t given up on Joba by any stretch of the imagination. As you said, they’ll probably both be starters long term.
But not both next year for the whole season. Like it or not, it ain’t happening and I don’t think thats a bad thing.
Gotta lift the Joba rules and just let the kid go after it. I think you’ll have a pretty good indication of what he has to offer as a starter at this junction in his career by July.
Such a tough decision for Cashman…glad its him and not me making it
Phil Hughes reminds me a lot of John Lackey, actually. Low 90s fastball, big curve, and I think his cutter will be a big factor as a starter. The two have a very similar build, and a similar repitoire. Hughes will be a premier #2/borderline ace, but he’s still probably a year away from that.
Joba needs to find his fastball. Whether he needs to improve his workout regimine, mechanics, consistency, whatever it is…he needs to get it back. All the “analysts” say his loss of velo is contributed to being removed from the pen, but in the minors and in the start where he outdueled Beckett, he SAT 96-97 and could touch 99 if he needed to. If the OLD Joba is back, not the slider reliant, tentative, inconsistent Joba, the Yanks will really have a formidable, young 1-2 punch at the top of the rotation.
Hopefully Joba can take a lesson from Verlander. In 2008, Verlander was hyped as the cant-miss guy who was going to become a superstar. He lost 17 games, several MPH on his fastball, was heavily criticized, and pitched to a 5 ERA. 2009? He got the fastball back, the hard biting slider back, and was probably the 3rd best pitcher in MLB this season behind Lincecum and Greinke. If Joba can do the same thing in 2010…all you can say is WOW.
vey (#28 /2010)
November 9th, 2009 at 11:42 am
-sab
If the Yankees get Lackey.The Angels will get Halladay,which gets him out of the division and get prospects,bank on it!The Angels were the front runner at this yrs trade deadline to snag him.
===================================================
maybe but i wouldn’t bank on it…why? because the angels went down that road with teixiera – they gave up the prospects to get a rental for a few months (or in the case of halladay 1 year)only to lose him the next year when they were too cheap to pony up the big bucks….its seems thats how artie moreno works….he won’t open up the checkbook for any player that wants a 9 figure contract (he passed on arod, he passed on manny, he passed on tex, he passed on sabathia, he passed on Krod) he would rather go and sign the players who are a step below (abreu, hunter, gary matthews, fuentes) and replensih the roster with the minor leaguers….
Lackey is only 31, and is about as good as Burnett, only more consistent. A starting rotation of Sabathia, Lackey, Burnett, and Pettite in the playoffs next year would be unbelievable. I think Hughes should be our 5th starter, and we should keep Joba in the bullpen. Joba seems to have more of a closers mentality, and he throws harder.
I would like to see the Yankees hold onto Matsui, and let Damon walk. Matsui is just too clutch. Hopefully he can play some outfield next year. Besides that I don’t think the Yankees really need to make anymore moves. They should continue to develop their young talent, to eventually take over for their vets.
pat,
Thanks.
Stay positive everybody,look what Andy took to come back this year.How valuable was he for the Yankees,even though under pai?.
These guys (Damon,Matsui) are at the twilight yrs in their career,money isn’t the end all,they want legacy and the Bling bling!
mike eff
November 9th, 2009 at 11:24 am
As far as Lackey goes– his career ERA at Fenway is 5.75. His career ERA at the trop is .675
it doesn’t look like a good fit for our team
————————————————————
sabathias post season era was terrible & against the angels this year in regular season his era was over 6
you cant go by that.
you have to go by career regular season numbers
D. It is Written
November 9th, 2009 at 9:00 am
“so much has been made this season about team chemistry, and picking up team mates…and then you see lackey showing up his team mates when they make an error. The Yankees don’t need that kind of player”
Talent > chemistry
Think a little too much is being made of Lackey glaring at a teammate for an error? How’s that different from what Mussina did for years or Mo’s infamous “catch the ball” directed at the CF (might have been Lofton). That stuff happens from time to time. It doesn’t bring a team down though.
======
Not at the CF, at David Justice. Mo later apologized for it. I still enjoyed seeing the “quiet tiger” bear his fangs
.
Global -
Tampa believed, based on their run to the WS two seasons ago, that they had a good bullpen. What they really had were a bunch of journeymen who had really good seasons but reverted to form last year and crippled them.
The Mets after losing to the Yankees in the 2000 WS thought that they had a team that could get right back there – but the ages of most of their key players all hit at once the next year.
That’s what the Yankees risk by just bringing back the same team that won the WS this year. Old players like Matsui, Andy and Damon who were able to stay mostly healthy. A guy like AJ who made every start. And, quite frankly, the luck of some weather in the post season that enabled them to only need three starters throughout the playoffs.
That’s a lot to count on to happen again.
This was a championship team, and to be a championship team again next year and down the road it needs to get younger and healthier.
First of all, anyone who suggests Garland is not thinking straight. Anything that guy can give, Hughes or Joba could give. Heck, Aceves could give what Garland would give. No thanks.
I look at this similar to the offseason after 98 where the Yankees could bring in, via trade, a high impact starter like they did with Clemens, and have the first three slots of their rotation ironed out for at least the next 2 seasons.
There are at least 3 or 4 pitchers that would fit that bill and they don’t have to be Ace-caliber because we have CC. That is the flexibility CC has provided us. What does this mean? We won’t get raked over the coals in any trade if that’s the decision Cashman goes in.
sab
Halladay wouldn’t be a rental,he would require and extension on any contract to waive his no-trade clause,from what I understand.So they would have him for awhile.
As far as CC,and Tex,betcha they learned from those mistakes!!
Damon or Matsui, one or the other. Not both.
I LOVE both of those guys and know they’ve meant a lot to the team the past few years, but we can’t keep aging.
Now, if both were willing to accept a 1 year deal, then by all means, that’s a risk I might be willing to take, but no way is Damon looking for a 1 year contract. Matsui maybe.
sab
November 9th, 2009 at 11:24 am
betsy
November 9th, 2009 at 10:28 am
Hmm, Sab, I seem to remember AJ coming up rather big in the biggest game of the entire season. Naturally, though, his game 5 stinker is what remains in fans’ memories – what a surprise. We need another pitcher, we don’t need Lackey. I’m too tired to debate AJ anymore, but as far as I’m concerned, I am good to go with him as our #2.
============================================================
Betsy although I understand and respect your opinion on AJ – and yes he did come up big in game #2 of the WS as well as game #2 of the ALCS – you can not ignore the fact that he absolutely stunk in the second game he pitched in both series….thats who he is, inconsistent –
in my opinion your #2 starter should not be inconsistent – he should be the same pitcher in about 85% of his starts – you can not tell me that you are 100% sure what you are getting in AJ in 8 out of 10 starts – he may have the best natural ability of all the yankee pitchers but that doesn’t translate into what he brings to the mound every 5 days…add to the fact that he needs his own special catcher (which doesn’t make much of a difference at least away from Yankee Stadium)..
lackey looked good in both starts against the yankees in the ALCS – that is being consistent – you can’t have a “wild card” as your #2 pitcher – also add to that the fact that AJ may not last a whole season (or pettite may not pitch as good next year or joba and hughes may still need to get “more experience”)so in my opinion getting lackey, or equivalent, is not a luxury but a necessity – i would prefer halladay but cashman isn’t going to trade joba or hughes (or montero) to get him so thats why i say go get lackey since he’ll only cost money…
———————————————————–
well said
the idea is to have the best 1-4 starters you can
if we can ever get a number 2 pitcher with a better era & whip & slide burnett to # 3,pettitte 4 there would be no stopping us
Something I’m tired of, as well as many fellow Yankee fans are is the constant criticism of the payroll by Jealous Yankee Haters everywhere. Our defense in the past has been that the Steinbrenners invest in the team, and commit to putting a great product on the field, which is entirely true. Another is that the Yankees play by baseball’s rules, and are just using the system in place to their advantage. True also.
Another argument, that isn’t heard as much is the most important, and real factor in the Yankees success. Players want to come to New York. Now, there will be detractors who say that they simply come for the money, but I counter that was not the case in the 80’s & 90’s for the most part. Although the economics have changed this past decade, the Yankees were known in the past to outspend other teams in free agency, and keep a payroll at the top of the league year in and year out. If you remember, in the early 90’s, the top free agents willingly turned down the Yankees money to sign with other clubs. Some players would flat out refuse to play for the Yankees. There was a stigma around New York, the Yankees, and George Steinbrenner, where players just didn’t want to come here. With a great GM at the helm, in Gene Michael, we were able to make moves, and get back to the top, but from 1988-1995, it was a constant struggle.
The Yankees began winning again, not only as a team, but as an organization. They started bringing up players from the minors, and building from within. When George came back from his suspension, he had the foresight to see what was going on, and allowed Gene Michael bulid his team. After the loss in 1995, George stepped in and helped make some tough decisions. Despite some of George’s mistakes in the past, he is a very intelligent business man, and isn’t afraid to take risks. Hence the big turnover in the Yankees roster into 1996, and the emergence of Joe Torre. The rest is history.
Now it was the Yankees turn to snub the Big free agents who sat in awe at the Yankees winning atmosphere. Clemens snubbed us after we won in 1996, then when he saw the Steinbrenner’s commitment to winning in 1998, he then wanted to come over. He was one of the priveleged few outsiders that were allowed entrance into the Dynasty. The rest of the big time players would have to sit back in astonishment and watch as the Yankees made History.
As the Dynasty wound down, and new pieces were needed. The farm system was barren. We had to go the free agency route to help replenish an aging roster. The top Free agents were once again willling to come here again. They came for the chance to get a ring, the money was icing on the cake. Unfortunately for the better part of the decade, the wrong scouting moves were made, and players were brought in that just wanted the money, and didn’t care about winning. The Championship Aura faded. It was time to start bringing up young players again, to support our core. Brian Cashman began the shift away from free agents, and moved the organization in the direction of player development, which has paid dividends. But to get to the top, he would have to bring in some new pieces through free agency. This time, with the proper scouting, from Yankee players as well, moves were made. The Yankees spent more than any team in history to bring in players, but they would turn out to be the right ones. True, the Yankees paid a premium, but other teams competed for their services, and offered generous contracts as well. Ultimately it is the players decision on where to play. Like the early 90’s they could turn down the Yankees money, to play closer to home, or where they though their kids should grow up. Some can say that it’s hard for them to turn down the extra money, or the old excuse that the Agent made them do it. But the truth is that these players want to play for a winner. That’s what the Yankees offer, that no other team can, the chance to win every year, based on the Ownership’s commitment to investing in the team. And for all of the Yankees success, they are still beholden to the Fans to keep a winning team on the field, and are shamed and take it personally when they lose! How many fans can say that about their teams? The Yankees are a first class organization, With First Class Ownership, and the Greatest Fans in the World, and that is what attracts players to come here nowadays. The money is just icing on the cake.
Victor Zambrano’s mother is the latest kidnap victim in Venezuela.
Prayers and good wishes to his family.
Boogie Down,
I didn’t read your essay, but my advice is that you ignore the payroll commentary, scoff at the mention of the topic, and if nothing else, remind the whiners that the Yankees are playing by the rules and that if you could buy championships, the Yankees would have won it every year since 1998.
I’ve said all along I expect Damon OR Matsui back but not both. The other’s $$ plus Nady’s $$ gives them about $ 20 Million along with a number of decent arms to try and acquire an all around corner OF.
Proposals to make massive changes are just nuts in my view. IF Pettite doesn’t come back then I make a run at Lackey because he’s that good , young enough and a real competitor. Garland is just so-so, six innings, 3 ER or more.
My bet is either Joba or Hughes remains in the pen with Mariano, Robertson, Bruney, Coke and Marte. If they go with 11 pitchers Coke or Bruney gets cut.
Mitre, Gaudin, Melancon, Aceves are useful assets that can be part of trade talks or fill in if one of the above gets moved. I think Dunn might be the Scranton closer with Kennedy and Nova heading up the rotation.
Chip-
I agree re: Tampa and the Mets. They gambled and lost. But the career track records and overall talent of those guys, don’t compare to Damon, Matsui and Andy. Unlike tampa/mets, Yanks enough enough pieces to win with 2009 versions of those 3, and also a decline from the 2009 versions. I would object to giving long term deals to them, short term, short risk. It’s part also that the FA pool right now isn’t great (or that much better than what they could resign). It will be better in two years, and at that time, I’d be all for them getting someone.
I also agree, always a risk that Andy or AJ aren’t as good, but it’s not worth them gambling with a pitcher who hasn’t yet pitched in NY (after all the failures we’ve seen over the last 5 years here). Look what happened to Wang, and they still won.
Long playoffs helped them use a 3 man rotation, but they weren’t really in trouble in the playoffs and never an elimination game. Swept the Twins, only CC needed 3-days rest vs. Angels. Would there have been a different end-result with Gaudin in Game 5 of WS? Probably not. Keep this bunch together and they will be fine in the end. In two years, let them go crazy on the FA market to get younger, while developing from within (montero, jackson, russo, etc).
Chip,
Great points all around re: older, key players.
There is the difficult task of separating emotion from business.
If Cashman truly believes both of them can return and contribute similar to 2009, he’ll bring them back. I’d say the odds of that happening are very very low.
Dylan
November 9th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Lackey is only 31, and is about as good as Burnett, only more consistent. A starting rotation of Sabathia, Lackey, Burnett, and Pettite in the playoffs next year would be unbelievable. I think Hughes should be our 5th starter, and we should keep Joba in the bullpen. Joba seems to have more of a closers mentality, and he throws harder.
I would like to see the Yankees hold onto Matsui, and let Damon walk. Matsui is just too clutch. Hopefully he can play some outfield next year. Besides that I don’t think the Yankees really need to make anymore moves. They should continue to develop their young talent, to eventually take over for their vets.
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another spot on comment
just because it worked with cc,burnett & pettitte this year does not mean it will next year
all it takes is an injury to one of the 3 or 2 of them or pettitte alone not being as good.
combine that with our 4th & or 5th starter struggling & it is over.
i think cashman is smart enough to know that you dont want 2 spots in the rotation to be concerns
the 5th spot always works itself out & is a non factor in the playoffs
it was almost a problem in the ws
luckily the phillies had no pitching
you add a lackey,halladay & a better pen & they win the series
look for them to improve on that
we have to stay ahead of them especially with their offence & the status of damon & matsui
I can’t wait for all the inane trade ideas people on this blog will begin coming up with.
Here’s one I anticipate:
Shelly Duncan, Ian Kennedy, and Alfredo Aceves for Felix Hernandez.
bru/Dylan,
I agree whole-heartedly re: it not working again in the playoffs with CC, AJ, and Andy.
But I don’t think Lackey is the solution.
Oh, and you guys need to be realistic.
Add Lackey, Halladay, and a better pen??????
Do you really think that’s going to happen? Don’t say yes.
Why do the Yankees have to spend a lot of $$$ on free agent starters this year? Next year is a much better year for free agents…save the money for then.
In my opinion the rotation next year should be CC, AJ, Pettitte, Joba and Hughes. If either Hughes or Joba are struggling when Wang is able to pitch then you put that guy in the bullpen. If we must sign a free agent pitcher then I would sign Jose Valverde to be our 8th inning guy this season and move into the closer spot in 2011 if Mo retires.
D. It is Written
November 9th, 2009 at 10:27 am
If you’re looking for a guy who can be a 4/5 type and eat up some innings, maybe a short term deal for a guy like Jon Garland, who is 30 years old, has considerable AL experience, and has averaged 200 IP and a slightly better than league average ERA over the past 8 seasons, makes some sense. 200 IP and a 4.50 or so ERA on this team is a 13-15 game winner.
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Garland would get killed pitching in the AL East…he’s way to hittable a pitcher to consistently face the lineups in our division. to be successful in the AL east a pitcher must have swing and miss stuff or a killer sinker ball to keep these lineups in check.
we had better pitching than any team we faced & the best offense
we might have enough with pettitte,cc & burnett but if any team or teams can put together 3 starters like us it will be a battle
becket
lester
dice
or if they get lackey/halladay/etc & slide dice k to # 4 i would not want to face them
why stick with
cc
burnett
pettitte when you can probably make the rotation better?
cc
lackey/??
burnett
pettitte
or trade for a good more cost controlled younger pitcher
i think only the 5th spot should be up for grabs
we are in great shape to trade some of our young talent to bring in a solid # 2 or 3 pitcher
if money is no concern keep all of them & sign a fa like lackey
The Mad Prince in Pinstripes
November 9th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
bru/Dylan,
I agree whole-heartedly re: it not working again in the playoffs with CC, AJ, and Andy.
But I don’t think Lackey is the solution.
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there is no way of knowin
nobody can know
i just think that ivin 2 spots away can only work if our 3 starters outperform the other teams we play
so far it has worked but how lon before teams like the phillies & rs uprade
would you want to face
becket
lester
halladay
dice
teir 2 & 3 pitcers are better & cc & becket can o eiter way
tis is if tey ad doc
you add a bi bat & a lf to te rs & tey are rit back in te mix
The Mad Prince in Pinstripes
November 9th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
bru/Dylan,
I agree whole-heartedly re: it not working again in the playoffs with CC, AJ, and Andy.
But I don’t think Lackey is the solution.
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there is no way of knowing
nobody can know
i just think that giving 2 spots away can only work if our 3 starters outperform the other teams we play
so far it has worked but how long before teams like the phillies & rs upgrade
would you want to face
becket
lester
halladay
dice
their 2 & 3 pitchers are better & cc & becket can go either way
this is if they had doc
you add a big bat & a lf to the rs & they are right back in the mix
The Mad Prince in Pinstripes
November 9th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Oh, and you guys need to be realistic.
Add Lackey, Halladay, and a better pen??????
Do you really think that’s going to happen? Don’t say yes.
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i didnt mean both
i meant one & a better pen
my point is if we can upgrade our pitching we should try so we can have 3 very good 1-3 pitchers & a good 4th
why cant we do that with a 206 million dollar payroll
???
it is not impossible
we keep going ti t for tat in debating every single thing on this blog
every player is tradeable except a few that is why all names get thrown in.
Cash(thank God!) has a plan and a vision that he has laid out to make the Yanks younger,more athletic and cheaper and as is sucessfully acheiving that and winning while doing it he will continue on that path.
So, while he will kick the tires on everything and the media will inevitably insert the Yanks in the middle of everything that’s happening during the hot stove season(at the prodding of all the agents in the game), i am certain about a few things;
a- Cano ain’t going nowhere but up! He continues to develop into a perennial all star player at a premium position and is cost controlled for the forseeable future.Maybe in two years when/if Dave Adams or Corbin Joseph are ready and Robbies through his arb years would he be movable but for now he’s a foundation player. I actually think the Yanks should let Damon walk and move Cano intop the 2 hole behind Jeet and in front of Tex and ARod as i think he’s finally ready to make that quantum leap into one of the games elite hitters with those guys protecting him.
b- Joba and Hughes will assume their roles in the rotation next year. Joba will have no limits and with proper conditioning and commitment i think will be a dominant front of the rotation type starter next season. I’m looking for 34 starts 200 innings 200+Ks 16-18 wins and a sub 3.6 era. Phranchise i think will be asked to make 27-28 starts with an innings limit of 175-180 innings as he’s thrown far more innings in the minors than Joba i don’t think the Hughes Rules will be as severe as Joba’s. Also having experienced the failed 3inning/skip a week and a half approach of the Joba rules this season i think they will go more with the approach that the Tigers took with Porcello and either shut him down for a month around the break with IPK/McCallister/Nova coming up for a few starts or shut him down in July/Aug with Wang if healthy and ready moving in to the rotation for Hughes.
c-Forget about Holliday and or Bay in NY. Cash is tired of hearing how he can only win with a $200 mil payroll and buying championships. After last seasons investments he’s looking to lower payroll(so is Hal quiet as it’s kept) and knows that he’s got the in-house solutions to do so.
d-AJax and Montero ain’t going anywhere either but on the express train to the Bronx. Both players will make their debuts at some point this season with AJax having an outside shot to make the team out of spring training and Montero almost certainly getting a callup when rosters expand if not sooner.
e- a very intriguing cheaper alternative to Damon that i’d love to see the Yanks explore would be Ankiel. He’s six years younger and faster,top 5 defensive OF’er who could play CF and move to RF when AJax gets here and would be a gold glover at both positions,and unlike Damon he has LEGIT LH power who could hit 30+ hrs in the Yanks lineup.I know some will point to the low batting average but remember Paul O’Neill was a career .258 hitter averaging 16 homers when we made the trade for him. Ankiel has the kind of skillset that i think Long can work with and unleash a .280-.290/35+/100 rbi gold glove athletically gifted outfielder for the next 3-4 yrs. In this market 2yrs/10 mil would definitely get it done. Boras and Damon are looking for 3-4yrs 30-40mil which is laughable in my opinion.
Assuming you dont backfill Matsui, there would be room for a quality starter..not sure its Lackey, but we continue to have issue with a fourth starter. Joba seems much better in the pen. If the post season taught us anything it’s that. However. if the Yankee brass is still committed to Joba as a starter he should be the fifth. I’d bring Pettite back for guranteed money up to what his incentives paid off at. Get a decent starter, who can give you innings. Am alos tempted to get Matt Holliday..we need an answer in Left field if we are going to mess around with Swisher out there in right again. Would bring Johnny Damon back as the DH and reserve outfielder- maybe one year until Jackson is ready.