Joba and Phil: ‘Starters that can relieve’
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 10, 2009 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Amid speculation about the pursuit John Lackey, the viability Chien-Ming Wang and the desire to bring back Andy Pettitte, there remains one ever-present question about the Yankees starting rotation. What will be done with the starters-turned-relievers? For the most part, general manager Brian Cashman has left all of next year’s questions unanswered until the organizaton’s internal meetings take place, but this afternoon he gave his opinion on Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain.
“I look at them as starters that can relieve,” he said. “But I look at them as starters.”
Again, Cashman stressed that nothing is set in stone until he meets with his pro scouts, but it seems a good bet that the two young right handers will at least enter spring training as rotation candidates. Any innings limits, Cashman said, would not be significant.
“I would anticipate going into spring training with as much starting depth as possible,” Cashman said. “Plan on having a whole list of guys.”
That list of rotation candidates would include Alfredo Aceves and could include both Chad Gaudin and Sergio Mitre, each of whom is still under the Yankees control if they decide to bring them back.
Other notes from this afternoon…
• Another name to keep in mind is Ian Kennedy, who’s pitching pretty well in the Arizona Fall League while making his way back from aneurysm surgery. “(Other teams) are asking about him,” Cashman said. “He’s a good, young, under-control starter that’s cheap, that we need. Not surprisingly, a lot of people would like to have the same opportunity. I’m not volunteering him, teams are asking about him, which is a good thing. They see the same thing that we see.”
• The Yankees have fourth options on both Juan Miranda and Edwar Ramirez, meaning both can be optioned to the minor leagues next season. Mark Newman had previously said he didn’t think Miranda had a fourth, but Cashman confirmed today that both can be optioned a fourth time next year. That’s not great news for those two.
• Cashman on speculation that the Yankees are going after John Lackey: “Anybody who says we’re on any player right now would be false because we have not met. We have not met about anybody.”
• Because I can’t help myself, I asked about the long line of minor league middle infielders who need to be protected from the Rule 5. Ramiro Pena is already on the roster, plus Kevin Russo, Eduardo Nunez and Reegie Corona are Rule 5 eligible. That’s a lot of 40-man spots to commit to middle infielders. “Something will give,” Cashman said. “Last year I had too many guys to protect and we did that three-for-one for Nick Swisher. We made the right calls. We had decisions to make about who we should protect and who we felt like, alright, we’re not going to protect but we think we’ll get them back.”
I hope Wang comes back
That Nick Swisher trade was getting a free lunch…
“I look at them as starters that can relieve,” he said. “But I look at them as starters.”
Music to my ears.
When do the meetings end?
Paging Nick or Michelle B
Anthonay Bourdain was in SF Oak area last night it looks really good. What a job.
http://www.travelchannel.com/T.....xtfmt=show
Isn’t it more accurate to say that Hughes is a starter who can relieve and Joba is a reliever who can start?
Just kidding! Nice to know that innings won’t be too big an obstacle.
“That Nick Swisher trade was getting a free lunch…”
It was largely a salary dump, but it’s a model that they should continue to pursue.
Great information, Chad. Thanks!
m
November 10th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Isn’t it more accurate to say that Hughes is a starter who can relieve and Joba is a reliever who can start
*******************
Love it.
Am I the only one who is constantly amazed that no one seems to know how many options each player has available?
Why is this a mystery? I’m still waiting for someone who can clearly explain the whole process to me. Any takers?
oh, m, we didn’t have enough controversy in the last thread? Now you want to start on Joba?
Erica – always OPPC
November 10th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
mick
November 10th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Erica
Did you hear Johnny will not give a hometown discount ?
******
I heard that. Don’t believe it. Free Agency 101 says that you aren’t supposed to say “I really want to be a Yankee and I will take whatever crummy contract they offer”
MaineYankee
November 10th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Erica
At least I didn’t get the dreaded hiss.
******
There’s always time
Hey Erin….
You know what today is right?
What in the world does starters who can relieve mean? Like Gaudin type people?
Erica -
Back a couple of months ago, Johnny Damon was on this Golf Network special and some golf guy was interviewing him near his home and walking the links and all, and anyway, basically Johnny Damon said on that show that he really only wanted to play for the Yankees going forward and that he was flexible in what they could work out. (I’m paraphrasing, of course, but I don’t think if this was the MLB Network he would have said the same things.)
Hey, Doreen. I’m willing to deflect the arrows to myself to save you.
I second vin’s request. Looking at my favorite spreadsheet via Cot’s, they show Arb1, Arb2, etc.
It shows that our two favorite young pitchers are up for FA in 2014 (!), when do their options expire?
http://spreadsheets.google.com.....utput=html
Thanks for all the info Chad
I love the minor league information you bring, keep it coming!
LoHud is better than ever.
“Why is this a mystery? I’m still waiting for someone who can clearly explain the whole process to me. Any takers?”
Sure, here’s how it works. You get some random number of times you can send a player back down to the minors after they are called up. It varies between 3 and 5 and depends on a number of factors, but the key is that no one knows for sure if a player has an option left until they get a call back from the commissioner’s office with the outcome from the random number draw. This is designed to keep beat reporters from speculating on moves a team will make…
Doreen
November 10th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
Erica -
Back a couple of months ago, Johnny Damon was on this Golf Network special and some golf guy was interviewing him near his home and walking the links and all, and anyway, basically Johnny Damon said on that show that he really only wanted to play for the Yankees going forward and that he was flexible in what they could work out. (I’m paraphrasing, of course, but I don’t think if this was the MLB Network he would have said the same things.)
******
That is what I believe. But from a negotiation standpoint, it would be rather dumb of Johnny to say “I only want to be a Yankee and will accept anything they offer”
I believe they will ultimately agree to a 2 year deal, maybe the Yankees will give in and have an option for a 3rd year
The Yankees swooped in, bought low on Swisher and it worked out to the team’s advantage. He was a key part of the 09 team not just on the field but also in the clubhouse where the atmosphere had been too confining and stressful for the players. Swisher plays baseball like it’s a game, which it is.
It wouldn’t surprise me if Cashman found a similar type of bargain in this offseason.
This years Nick Swisher is Brad Hawpe
“Am I the only one who is constantly amazed that no one seems to know how many options each player has available?”
The main thing that people don’t understand that it’s option years rather than a given number of options. It’s usually three, but under some circumstances, a fourth year can be granted.
Starting Rotation 2010
CC
AJ
Andy
Joba
Phil
Brad Hawpe?
Interesting…
Erica – always OPPC
November 10th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Hey Erin….
You know what today is right?
****************
No….
Vin-players on the 40 man roster get, I believe, 3 options. When an option is used it counts for the whole year. In some cases, be it injury or whatever, Teams players are granted another option-the Yankees were granted a 4th option on Hughes because of his injury filled ’08 season.
Once a player is on the active 25 man roster for 5 seasons they lose all of their options-which is why Wang could not have been sent down to the minors.
Erica-I do believe Damon wants to return and the Yankees want him. With those mindsets, an agreement can readily be reached. He will get something similar to Abreau or slightly more to appease Boras.
via wiki answers (grain of salt source)
Players actually get three option years. That is, three years in which they are on the 40 man roster, but not on the 25 man roster for some or all of the season.
If a player has fewer than five years of professional experience, he can be sent to the minors in a fourth season without being subject to waivers.
Once the player is out option years, if he gets “optioned” to the minors, he must clear irrevocable waivers. When a player is put on irrevocable waivers, any team can claim him. If no team claims him, the player is assigned to the minor leagues. However, if the player has five years or more of major league service, he can refuse the option to the minors and become a free agent.
Quickly… By the way… any one notice how ESPN’s headline earlier was “Teixeria and Jeter GIVEN gold gloves”…
Excellent post Chad.
I’m sure it’s tough when there’s a lot of nothing going on but this post was top notch.
Here is a description of how options work. hope that it helps.
Options
If a player is on the 40-man roster but not on the active major league roster, he is said to be on optional assignment—his organization may freely move him between the major league club and the minor league club.
If a player is on the 40-man roster and not the active 25 man roster for any part of more than three seasons (in which he spent 20 or more total days of service in the minors), he is out of options and may not be assigned to the minors without first clearing waivers.
However, if a player has less than 5 years of professional experience, he may be optioned to the minors in a fourth season without being subject to waivers. If a major league player is ineligible for free agency and “has options” remaining, his team may option him to a minor league team without consequence.
This is usually what is meant when players are “sent down” to the minors. Likewise, when a player on the 40-man roster is added to the active major league roster, he is “called up” to the majors.
Upon further review, Brad Hawpe had his best year OPS wise -so he’s not exactly a buy-low type player right now.
There must be somebody on radar though.
Wang was going to see Dr. Andrews on monday. Has there been anything said about his rehab. He could be an ace in the hole for the World Champions!!!!!!
I read this and it seems like a fairly understandable explanation of options and the Rule 5 draft and afew other things:
http://www.sonsofsamhorn.net/w.....er_Options
Adam, go take an anger management class, lol……
ADam
November 10th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Quickly… By the way… any one notice how ESPN’s headline earlier was “Teixeria and Jeter GIVEN gold gloves”…
———————————————————–
you forgot to add that Youkilis was awarded the 14th spot as the AL first baseman.
I think we have the options question nailed now.
Erica -
Oh, sure. You have to start high. No one plays for the fun of it.
(That’s why I said if the show was on MLB Network – different audience – he never would have said what he did, I think.)
Well, that’s good news about Phil’s inning limits……..
I really like Gaudin -he’s going to be a pretty valuable piece to our puzzle as he’s versatile.
If teams are asking about IPK, that means he’s showing them something. Good – the more pitching, the better; I’m glad he seems completely recovered from the surgery.
Different Adams?
I was reading comments on a RS site and they were upset that Ellsbery didn’t get a GG.
jack -lv nv
November 10th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Wang was going to see Dr. Andrews on monday. Has there been anything said about his rehab. He could be an ace in the hole for the World Champions!!!!!!
*******************
jack-from what I’ve read, Dr. Andrews was very pleased with Wang’s progress. Thinks he could start rehab games in April or May.
m
November 10th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
via wiki answers (grain of salt source)
————————————————————
How were you able to read what I had on my screen, Mel? You work for the CIA, don’t you?
Those are exactly what the MLB CBA rules read.
ADam
November 10th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Quickly… By the way… any one notice how ESPN’s headline earlier was “Teixeria and Jeter GIVEN gold gloves”…
——————————————————
You think that’s bad? Try clicking on the MLB section of espn.com
Headline is “Devalued Gold” with Tex’s picture in the center (flanked by Jeter and Mauer).
IF they go for Lackey, and if not Lackey, why bother with any lesser starter, and Andy comes back, which I think he will, then Phil or Joba will prob. not start.
With the faith he showed in Joba over Phil in the postseason it seems unlikely Joba would be the 5th starter again.
Joba as a 5th starter or Joba in the pen, that is the question. A no-brainer as I see it.
MaineYankee
November 10th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
I was reading comments on a RS site and they were upset that Ellsbery didn’t get a GG.
********************
Thanks for that. I’m always up for a good laugh.
Ellsbury, a gold glove? For what, making routine plays look difficult. And for making semi-difficult plays look nearly impossible.
Boras will only be holding out for 4 for Damon for as long as Holliday is on the market.
*****Bret the Hitman
November 10th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Upon further review, Brad Hawpe had his best year OPS wise -so he’s not exactly a buy-low type player right now.
There must be somebody on radar though.**********
Check out his 2nd half numbers, he was so bad they benched him for the post season.
I can definitely see Hughes as the 5th starter and Joba back in the pen.
Erin
Red kool aid is served with every meal in RS nation.
Erin
November 10th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Erica – always OPPC
November 10th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Hey Erin….
You know what today is right?
****************
No….
*****************
The 40th Anniversary of Sesame Street!!!!
You think that’s bad? Try clicking on the MLB section of espn.com
Headline is “Devalued Gold” with Tex’s picture in the center (flanked by Jeter and Mauer).”
Ahh… Mystery solved… Its Neyer’s Piece… He Hates Derek Jeter and Hates the Yankees.. with a Passion…
If it was Youkliss and one of the 47 red sox shortstops this season.. Neyer would need a klenex to clean up before he wrote the story…
Baseball America is indicating that it expects the Commissioner to release the 2009 list of minor league free agents this week. Unofficially, I can think of eighteen Yankee minor leaguers who should qualify for minor league free agency. The basic criteria are: (1) started play in the affiliated minor leagues (whether domestically or in the Dominican Republic or in Venezuela)in the 2003 season or earlier (2) still in a major league organization after the 2009 season, and (3) not on a major league 40-man roster by the time free agency is granted.
On my unofficial list, there are nine pitchers: Jose Valdez, Humberto Sanchez, Romulo Sanchez, Jason Hirsh, Mike Gardner, Justin Pope, Paul Bush, Jason Stephens, and Josue Calzado.
There are two catchers: Chris Stewart and Brian Peterson.
There are five infielders: Doug Bernier, Eric Duncan, Marcos Vechionacci, Carlos Mendoza, and Cody Ransom.
There are two outfielders: John Rodriguez and Edwar Gonzalez.
Yes, I know that Carlos Mendoza and Justin Pope were reported as ready to become coaches in the organization, but if you will check the minor league transaction reports for the postseason in Baseball America, you will find that both were reinstated to the active reserve list from the disabled list at the end of the season.
Personally, I would think that the Yankees would want to try to sign Romulo Sanchez to a new minor league contract, unless he wants to move on to a new organization. Chris Stewart might be a useful catcher to keep in the organization, depending upon how fast they think they can develop Montero and Romine. All of the rest on the list, in my opinion, could easily move on to other organizations and be replaced in the Yankees organization by equal or greater talents.
One disadvantage of signing minor league free agents to new contracts before the December Rule 5 draft is that, unless you put them on the 40-man roster by the November deadline date, you risk losing the player you just signed in the Rule 5 draft. On the other hand, if the minor league free agent remains officially unsigned, he can’t be taken in the Rule 5 draft. The Rule 5 draft is an involuntary assignment of an existing contract, and a free agent, by definition, has no contract to be assigned by a club. For this reason, some deals that are made early in the fall just aren’t made official until late December or in January.
From time to time, I see comments on blogs similar to this to the effect that the Uniform Minor League Contract that most players sign at the start of their careers can have its expiration date extended, and thus minor league free agency delayed, if the player is injured. This is not true. The Uniform Minor League Contract generally expires in the fall following the seventh full or partial season of play. Injuries do not have any impact on the expiration date and the resulting free agency.
I have always thought that the term “six-year minor league free agent” was somewhat a misnomer since most minor leaguers’ contracts do not expire until they have been on the minor league rosters for at least parts of seven different championship seasons. I suppose the term comes from the fact that the period of time from the fall following the start of the contract to the fall of the expiration of the contract is a period of six calendar years. (e.g., from the fall of 2003 to the fall of 2009 is a period of six years, but a player who started play in 2003 has played in seven different seasons).
mick
November 10th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
I can definitely see Hughes as the 5th starter and Joba back in the pen.
————————————————————
Joba can go more innings next year. They spent all of 2009 preparing him to be a starter with no limits in 2010.
If it comes down to Joba or Hughes for spot #5, It will be Joba’s to lose in spring training.
austinmac
November 10th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
Erica-I do believe Damon wants to return and the Yankees want him. With those mindsets, an agreement can readily be reached. He will get something similar to Abreau or slightly more to appease Boras.
**********
Scott Boras works for him. Not the other way around
Congrats to Tex and Jeter on the gold gloves.
I am hearing via the Las Vegas grapevine that the Tex GG award was a make-up call for the many times the previous Yankee first baseman got shafted out of winning the GT award.
If it comes down to Joba or Hughes for spot #5, It will be Joba’s to lose in spring training.
——————————————————
Not a bad idea. Let the 2 of them battle it out in ST.
Just go get Lackey for insurance.
Then we can have 4 starters in the postseason.
Erica – always OPPC
November 10th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
The 40th Anniversary of Sesame Street!!!!
**********************
Oh, cool-today is the actual day? Awesome.
Happy Birthday to Sesame Street…
Too bad that if we do get Lackey it will probably cost us Matsui/Damon.
I still believe Damon is coming back.
Of course if Erica writes him a Dear John letter, all bets are off.
Ellsbury never makes an easy play look easy if he can make it look like he is going all out.
I’ve seen too many of his plays that he could have caught easier if he stayed on his feet instead of making a diving catch or bouncing himself off a wall. Either he is just putting on a show or he has terrible instincts for outfield plays.
Damon won’t get more than two years (an Abreu-like contract) from the Yankees, and I think he knows that.
This link has important offseason dates:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....off-season
I can’t see Damon being offered more than 2 years.
If they’re asking 4 and hope to get 3, that could come at the team’s option but I doubt Boras will settle.
Then it’s up to Johnny, as Erica says Boras works for him.
Who else would give him 3 years? Nobody.
He’s coming back.
Thanks to all who responded RE: Options.
I guess it all makes some sense, but I don’t know why someone (or some website) hasn’t come up with a running list of players and available options.
Doreen,
That may be a good explanation, but there’s no way I’m going to that website. I got sucked into their vortex before game 1 of Angels/Sox this year – someone posted a horrific/callous drawing of Nick Adenhart. I have a pretty dark sense of humor, but that made even me upset.
“ADam
November 10th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Quickly… By the way… any one notice how ESPN’s headline earlier was “Teixeria and Jeter GIVEN gold gloves”…”
I thought the EXACT same thing. Figures.
Also, does Ellsbury deserve a GG? No. But I personally think JD Drew is the best RFer in the game. As unlikable as he is, I still have to marvel at his ability out there.
Chien-ming Wang is not an Ace (in the hole).
These are the comments made by Tom Singer of MLB.com, who is hardly a Yankee fan. Not a word about anybody being “given” anything.
“Jeter’s eye-popping defensive work wasn’t accidental. He committed eight errors in 554 chances — the league’s eight other shortstops with 500-plus chances averaged 17 errors — the season after his reputation was stung by various sabermetrics indexes that had him as the lowest-ranked shortstop in the Major Leagues.”
“Anyone whose eyes were popped by Teixeira’s exceptional glovework throughout the postseason certainly has no issues with him receiving his third Gold Glove. Teixeira’s athleticism belies the notion that first base is often a hiding place for defensively challenged hitters.”
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb
Brad Hawpe is a terrible defender. I’d rather them go for some semblance of a glove out there.
I don’t see any team offering Johnny 3 years.
In this market? for a 36 year old?
Say what you want about Abreu and his fears but the guy is on the field all the time. He’s a very healthy player and he jumped at 2 years.
vin
The problem with Drew is his inability to play consistantly because of seemingly minor ailments.
GB, sanity has been restored – just when I thought the Earth had tilted off it’s axis. Thanks for posting!
Players like Chris Stewart and Romulo Sanchez are not likely to be taken by major league teams and have to be kept on the ML roster for a year.
My pleasure, Betsy. If any players were as deserving of winning the GG at shortstop, it would be Scutaro or Aybar. The fans of thiose two may be the only ones with complaints.
“He’s a very healthy player and he jumped at 2 years.”
Great point. My perfect world solution:
Damon for 2 years
Matsui for 1 year
Andy for 1 year
save the Lackey/Holliday money for Aroldis Chapman and the big 2010 FA class.
In fact, re-signing the big 3 FA should save the Yanks about 4.5 million from ’09. I think those three guys can be had for a total of 27 mill next year… this year they made 31.5 mill.
I was wondering earlier today how the upcoming contracts of Jeter and River will play out. Hopefully re-signing those guys doesn’t handcuff Cashman. There will (may) be some mighty big names ripe for the picking next year:
Berkman, Pujols, VMart, Mauer, Crawford, Kubel, Werth, Beckett, Cain, Halladay, Lee, Downs, Street, Wood… just to name a few.
GB7
One thing in that article was a topic of conversation at the beginning of the season. How no team had won a WS with a SS 35 or older. I guess we know that can’t be said now.
this joba/hughes starter/bullpen thing is getting old..pick a spot…and move on….Drama Queens.
i have changed my mind..i think they need to bring matsui back for 1 more year..he deserves it.
MaineYankee
November 10th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
GB7
One thing in that article was a topic of conversation at the beginning of the season. How no team had won a WS with a SS 35 or older. I guess we know that can’t be said now.
————————————————————
True, but, did you know that no team has ever won a WS with a 16 year old fulltime shortstop?
“The problem with Drew is his inability to play consistantly because of seemingly minor ailments.”
Agreed,
I’m not saying I would necessarily want him on my team (not for that money at least). But he plays the hell out of rightfield.
Strong, accurate arm; plays caroms very well (especially useful in Fenway); still has good speed; gets to seemingly everything. He’s really good in RF.
OK…. time for me to go to bed… and put on my skin cream that has a little bit of bleach in it… Good Night
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....ry=4642952
vin -
It’s actually wikipedia via that other website.
Dearest Johnny Damon,
You are a terrific baseball player with a few more years left in you. You are a great fit for the Yankees, Yankee Stadium and New York. Please ignore your evil agent and take the most fair contract being offered to you by the Yankees. Please come back to the team. Its only fitting that you should close out your classic career in the most classic uniform in baseball and take that uniform to the hall of fame. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
Sincerely Yours,
Erica
DT-
Lets see if my letter works…. the Steinbrenners have heard my plea to make Johnny a Yankee before.
Perhaps you’d be better off using some extra strength Clearasil, instead.
GB7
“True, but, did you know that no team has ever won a WS with a 16 year old fulltime shortstop?”
The RS are planning on changing that next year.
MaineYankee
November 10th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
GB7
“True, but, did you know that no team has ever won a WS with a 16 year old fulltime shortstop?”
The RS are planning on changing that next year.
————————————————————
I figure that by the time I’m 65 years old, the line that will be repeated is, “Do you know that no team has won a WS that has no players on it that haven’t been born, yet, and the Yankees are the worst transgressors of that age discrimination.”
Hearing you guys flip out about stats is hirious. How much are you all going to lose it when PlayerFX debuts in the next couple of years where they use cameras to track every players positioning / route / speed to balls and also track the speed of the ball off the bat and the angle its launched at? Its going to be a pretty definitive look at defense from a statistical point of view.
jerkface-
my first thought is guys like dewan would have a competing system that’s more accurate than their subjective system.
won’t that hurt their little cottage industry in made up subjective stats?
I hope Damon comes back as well but Boras always brainwashes his clients into doing what he wants them to do. I think whether he comes back mainly depends on if another team is willing to offer him a 3 year deal. If not he’ll re-sign with the Yankees but if someone will do a 3+ year deal then he’ll be gone because the Yanks won’t match it.
Boras negotiating position was screwed by Abreu and the Angels deal. He knows it, Johnny knows it, the Yankees know it. He gets max $8-9 million per year x 2 with a club option.
Sure, Boras will go “he’s got 30 year old legs” and Cashman will go “yes, but he was down for a few games, and look at game 6 this year–young legs, my tuchas” and it will go back and forth. Johnny can hit another 40-50 HR before he retires, and maybe get another ring.
Matsui is 35-36 with bad knees. Going rates for pure DHs are about $8-10 million. He can’t play ever day, even as a DH–the Yankees saw that. Give him $9 million with a vested option for year two.
Pettitte is coming back (we hope). This gives the Yankees one year to check out Joba and Hughes, as well as Wang, putting them in optimum position in 2011 to determine if they need Halliday or Beckett.
If I had to bet:
2010 rotation: CC, AJ, Andy, Joba, Hughes
2011 rotation: CC, Halliday, AJ, Wang, Hughes, with Joba in the pen being groomed by Mo (who will get a 2-3 yaer extension).
Cashman’s contract is up at the end of 2011, correct?
Commitments for 2010 are $166 million.
Yankees add $25-30 in payroll.
2010 is about $190 million, with $20 million in lux tax, so they give MLB $8 million.
Doesn;t their deal with the new stadium help with revenue sharing?
also from looking at pitch fx data last spring and summer with wang’s release point, pitch fx has lots of problems. it’s not always accurate.
why wouldn’t defensive fx have problems for a while also?
but anything that takes the subjectiveness out of defensive ratings sounds good to me.
Halladay won’t make it to free agency. The Blue Jays already fired their GM in part because he failed to get a deal done to trade Halladay last summer. The Jays aren’t in a position to compete now and they apparently have hired a ton of scouts to plan for the future. He will get traded either this offseason or sometime next year so they don’t lose him and get nothing in return.
Also why would they put Joba in the rotation in 2010 only to move him back to the pen in 2011? They need to pick one or the other and stay with it.
why wouldn’t defensive fx have problems for a while also?
–
Because the problem with Wang was camera positioning affecting release point or whatever. There is nothing that moving a camera can change about player A starting at point 1 and moving to point 2. The distance will always be the same.
It will also track players running the bases as well.
PlayerFX is going to own.
Yup, revenue sharing is way down while they pay off the stadium.
It’s upsetting that people who played the game have to be exposed to the ramblings of people who haven’t.
“DT-
Lets see if my letter works…. the Steinbrenners have heard my plea to make Johnny a Yankee before.”
Erica – I was talking about a different type of “Dear John” letter.
I would like a lefty however for 2011, and maybe the choice of SP will be Lee, Halliday, or Beckett.
Will PlayerFX be able to factor in all the nuances of the game that don’t appear on a camera?
Tailspin on the ball, wind direction and velocity, wet, soft fields, air pressure and altitude, doubleheaders etc. etc. etc.
All of these things can effect ball flight and the defensive ability of a player.
And what ever happened to those glowing hockey pucks on FOX anyway?
Since pee wee reese won it at 37
rizzuto at 36 ?
PittsburghYankeeFan
November 10th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
If I had to bet:
2010 rotation: CC, AJ, Andy, Joba, Hughes
2011 rotation: CC, Halliday, AJ, Wang, Hughes, with Joba in the pen being groomed by Mo (who will get a 2-3 yaer extension).
———————————————————-
By betting that Joba will be in the pen in 2011, you are betting that Joba will be a failure in the rotation in 2010.
Personally, I hope that doesn’t happen, because I don’t think anyone needs 2-3 years of grooming.
Will PlayerFX be able to factor in all the nuances of the game that don’t appear on a camera?
Tailspin on the ball, wind direction and velocity, wet, soft fields, air pressure and altitude, doubleheaders etc. etc. etc.
–
Yes. It will also know if you are a team player or not. And if you ate your breakfast that morning.
PlayerFX is going to own.
___________
And will destroy the game. Why bother watching any game if everything is reduced to stats? Why even play the game when all they need to do is plug everything into a computer and save the wear and tear on the body?
This is the result of the video game era.
Anthonay Bourdain was in SF Oak area last night it looks really good. What a job.
http://www.travelchannel.com/T…..xtfmt=show
Nick have you been to any of these places???
blake
Look at CC. He could have signed an extension with the Brewers–he didn’t. He got paid a lot.
Roy Halliday is in the same boat. Why wouldn’t he test free agency for likely the only time in his career? Put yourself in his shoes, not a club’s shoes. Sure, he’ll go to a limited list of contending clubs. But think human nature–he’ll want the most $$$ he can get from a winning team. Don’t think he hasn’t spoken to AJ.
In terms of Joba, I’m just thinking out loud for 2011. I hope he’s an ace for years to come–it would solve a lot of the Yankees problems. Assume Phil and Joba have breakout years. Assume Wang recovers. Then what do you do when three studs come on the market in 2011?
“It’s upsetting that people who played the game have to be exposed to the ramblings of people who haven’t.”
you don’t have to play the game to have contact with the game’s greatest stars.
Did I ever tell ya about the time me and Clete Boyer hit every big spot in town? We were inseparable. People could hear us coming from far and wide….
Yup – I had old Clete pinned to my bicycle spokes.
Jerkface
November 10th, 2009 at 9:07 pm
–
Yes. It will also know if you are a team player or not. And if you ate your breakfast that morning.
——————————————————-
Will it gauge potential tp be a true Yankee? That would be helpful for Cashman in trade talks and free agent negotiation.
ADam
November 10th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Starting Rotation 2010
CC
AJ
Andy
Joba
Phil
========================================================
2010 final standings – 3rd place
“PlayerFX is going to own.”
jerkface-
i don’t follow why you say that pitch fx’s probems will have no bearing on a defensive fx.
aren’t they similar systems?
… and does the stat community really like player fx?
if it is really accurate, doesn’t it eliminate some their ideas about defensive metrics.?
PittsburghYankeeFan
November 10th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
In terms of Joba, I’m just thinking out loud for 2011. I hope he’s an ace for years to come–it would solve a lot of the Yankees problems. Assume Phil and Joba have breakout years. Assume Wang recovers. Then what do you do when three studs come on the market in 2011?
———————————————————–
If Joba and Phil have breakout years and Wang recovers, I assume we have our rotation set for the foreseeable future and we can spend the millions elsewhere, like catcher, OF and eventually SS.
Either that, or we have some pretty good trade bait by the names of Wang and Burnett.
Reading conversations about the use of statistics in baseball is very similar to rereading antiquated books from the 19th century.
Both sides of the debate – both the “pro-stats” and
“anti-stats”lines of reasoning are reminiscent to arguments that are over 100 years old.
It’s really remarkable.
The 40th Anniversary of Sesame Street!!!!
**********************************
There is a cool Sesame Street 40th Anniversary book in Barnes and Noble. I had to be actually pulled away from it by my other half, I got so engrossed in it, lol. Full of interesting trivia and little known facts.
please…no
November 10th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
ADam
November 10th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Starting Rotation 2010
CC
AJ
Andy
Joba
Phil
========================================================
2010 final standings – 3rd place
————————————————————
Like this year, right?
Halladay could get traded and still test free agency. Just like CC did. Cleveland traded him to the Brewers for prospects and CC still became a free agent. I meant I didn’t think he’d stay with the Jays through 2010. I just think Toronto will trade him and there are only a few teams he will go to (hopefully not Boston)
ADam
Third place? Really? Care to add a bit of detail to that speculation?
you guys are nuts if you think Joba AND Phil will be in the starting rotation. no way.. it will be one or the other . Also you can’t count on Wang .. he won’t be ready till after the ALL-Star Break.
Yanks will explore the trade market first , if that fails they’ll head to free agency for a starting pitcher.
And will destroy the game. Why bother watching any game if everything is reduced to stats? Why even play the game when all they need to do is plug everything into a computer and save the wear and tear on the body?
This is the result of the video game era.
–
These systems and stats do not change the result on the field. You also cannot substitute the stats for the game because the stats come from the results of playing the game.
Baseball will always be enjoyable to view. Stats are just another way to reflect on what was viewed. The human mind is great, but it has its limitations. You can’t remember everything you see and you don’t see everything to begin with.
That is why stats are fun and vital. Baseball managers being polled on gold gloves is ridiculous, because you get a guy like Torii Hunter who gets one on name alone. It was obvious to anyone who watched that he was in the downside of his defensive career. Playing shallow because he is used to it but without the makeup speed he used to possess.
Mike
Tell that to the Yankee GM, who is quoted by Chad above. Listening to Cashman, it sounds like he is that nuts.
Yes, Joba and Phil will be in the starting rotation come ST 2010. We should start getting used to it.
Will PlayerFX know which players are on the same page? If not, will SamePageFX appear to fill the void?
Will ConvictionFX tell us what pitches were thrown with heart and what pitches were thrown to appease a fiery, selfish catcher?
“Quickly… By the way… any one notice how ESPN’s headline earlier was “Teixeria and Jeter GIVEN gold gloves”…”
Yeah, I saw that, but they’ve since substituted the word “earn” for “given”.
Uncle E, I’ll click on that later, having internet problems at home, using blackberry.
“Reading conversations about the use of statistics in baseball is very similar to rereading antiquated books from the 19th century”
It does kind of sound like read like some sort 19th c. argument about Darwinism or something like that, CB.
Chad,
I see you reference Mark Newman in your blog entry, and I’m sure you have decent access to him.
Could you please ask him how Christian Garcia is progressing?
Is it remotely possible he’s healthy enough to compete in Spring Training?
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
dt-
did i ever tell you about the story about the know it all fan that came up to clete in the bar of the team hotel one night and clete said not only would he give him an autograph but he’d buy him a beer if he’d just sit there and shut the f up ?
it was pretty funny. the guy drank his beer got up and left without saying a word.
i guess you had to be there.
PittsburghYankeeFan
Cashman also said he was 100 percent confident Nick Swisher would be our first-baseman
If they can ever make GrittyFX compatible with GuttyFX, we’ll finally know what we have in Brett Gardner.
PassionFX will look like an infrared camera. Cano, of course, will not register.
“general manager Brian Cashman has left all of next year’s questions unanswered until the organizaton’s internal meetings take place, but this afternoon he gave his opinion on Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain.
“I look at them as starters that can relieve,” he said. “But I look at them as starters.”
Again, Cashman stressed that nothing is set in stone until he meets with his pro scouts, but it seems a good bet that the two young right handers will at least enter spring training as rotation candidates. Any innings limits, Cashman said, would not be significant.
“I would anticipate going into spring training with as much starting depth as possible,” Cashman said. “Plan on having a whole list of guys.”
One thing about Cashman’s comments in regard to Joba and Hughes starting is that they’ll have to earn those spots as he intends to have a significant amount of starting pitching depth to step in if either or both of them are not getting the job done. Lesson learned from 2008.
PittsburghYankeeFan
November 10th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Mike
Tell that to the Yankee GM, who is quoted by Chad above. Listening to Cashman, it sounds like he is that nuts.
Yes, Joba and Phil will be in the starting rotation come ST 2010. We should start getting used to it.
——————————————————–
I wouldn’t go that far. At one point, Bubba Crosby was good to go as our starting CF. And Nick Swisher was going to be our 1B.
Cashman talks a lot. I wouldn’t be surprised if Hughes started the season in the bullpen and stretched out later depending on need. Or Joba in AAA if he has an awful spring.
Did anybody read on MLBTR re: Edwin Jackson? He seems to be a realistic option to acquire via trade considering the Tigers’ bad contracts + future big FAs.
Thoughts?
Listening to Cashman is kinda like listening to Belichick, any quote you hear from him is totally useless. He’s not going to show his hand to the media.
“Did anybody read on MLBTR re: Edwin Jackson? He seems to be a realistic option to acquire via trade considering the Tigers’ bad contracts + future big FAs.”
I can’t see any downside to that, but what would they be looking for?
Joey is something to monitor. Edwin has the talent and i don’t think it would take very much.
The PitchFX isn’t entirely accurate as well.
Well obviously the plate doesn’t move so the horizontal limits of the strike zone seem fine nut the vertical limits?
I’ve read that they use a players stance in batting practice to set the vertical limits but I think you can argue that a player may be less “coiled” in BP giving him a larger strike zone than he has in game conditions.
I recall an ump stating that “They’d kill me if called that a strike” when discussing the discrepency at the top of the strike zone.
We regret to inform you that the EyesFX gun has malfunctioned again due to the start by Francisco Cervelli. No EyesFX statistics will be available for the duration of the game.
“It does kind of sound like read like some sort 19th c. argument about Darwinism or something like that, CB.”
bill james as darwin?
good one.
i think l ron hubbard might be a better comparison.
“One thing in that article was a topic of conversation at the beginning of the season. How no team had won a WS with a SS 35 or older. I guess we know that can’t be said now.”
Next year we’ll hear about how no team has ever won with a 40 year old closer.
so if the sports writers are at the meetings to catch some trade gossip, then what is scott boras doing there? the same thing? was he personally invited? are other agents there too?
Edwin Jackson seemed to sag a bit the second half of the season. Before entertaining any deals,you’d have to figure out why. I don’t know enough, clearly, but you wouldn’t want to acquire someone who’s arm is dangling by the proverbial thread, regardless of the price.
“Stats are like bikinis- they show a lot- but not everything.”
well i guess htat’s a dumb question because he’s probably just talking about his players… but it’s weird because i thought they’re not really supposed to be discussing FAs.
Don’t forget, Cash isn’t the only GM who can be disingenuous. It’s possible all this talk of dealing Jackson because of financial issues is a smokescreen for some medical problem.
We regret to inform you that the EyesFX gun has malfunctioned again due to the start by Francisco Cervelli. No EyesFX statistics will be available for the duration of the game.
———-
LOL
DT – OPPC member
November 10th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
“It’s upsetting that people who played the game have to be exposed to the ramblings of people who haven’t.”
you don’t have to play the game to have contact with the game’s greatest stars.
Did I ever tell ya about the time me and Clete Boyer hit every big spot in town? We were inseparable. People could hear us coming from far and wide….
Yup – I had old Clete pinned to my bicycle spokes.
————————————————————
I’m sure that you wouldn’t have been the only one that ever wheeled Boyer, Mantle and Ford in and out of the city hotspots.
Erica-
Your letter needs some revision if you really want Damon back!!
Dearest Johnny Damon,
You are a terrific baseball player with more than a few years left in you. You are a great fit for the Yankees,as long as you stay fit, in Yankee Stadium and New York. Please ignore your evil, bombastic, and egomoniacal agent and take the fair contract that will be offered to you by the Yankees. Please come back to the team. Its only fitting that the clean cut you should close out your classic career in the most classic uniform in baseball and take that uniform to the hall of fame. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
Very truly and adoringly yours forever,
Erica, your PGF
Counting on both Joba and Hughes for 2/5 of the rotation is risky. Kind of reminds me of 2008, and that’s not a good memory.
“dt-
did i ever tell you about the story about the know it all fan that came up to clete in the bar of the team hotel one night and clete said not only would he give him an autograph but he’d buy him a beer if he’d just sit there and shut the f up ?
it was pretty funny. the guy drank his beer got up and left without saying a word.
i guess you had to be there.”
LOL – that’s funny.
I last saw Clete Boyer about 8-10 years ago. He was signing autographs in a tent at the NY State Fair for like 15-20 bucks a clip. It was a hot day, the small tent made it worse and it looked like he would rather be anywhere but there.
It was sad in a way. Reminded me of a great lion tied up at a petting zoo. On one side there was the dude selling the Shammy Cloth, on the other was the carny trying to guess your weight.
I didn’t get an autograph, but I did take a picture from a distance. I didn’t get a free beer either.
“Counting on both Joba and Hughes for 2/5 of the rotation is risky. Kind of reminds me of 2008, and that’s not a good memory.”
Did you miss the part in which Cashman specifically stated that there will be a long list of starting pitching depth next spring training? That’s different than what happened in 2008.
McCarver never said no team had never won a WS with a 35 yr old SS – He said no team had SINCE PEE WEE REESE in the 50s
facts
That depends on what pitchers are making up that depth.
The more I hear of Clete Boyer on this board, the more I like him. Funny dude.
crawdaddy
November 10th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
“Counting on both Joba and Hughes for 2/5 of the rotation is risky. Kind of reminds me of 2008, and that’s not a good memory.”
Did you miss the part in which Cashman specifically stated that there will be a long list of starting pitching depth next spring training? That’s different than what happened in 2008.
————————————————————-
Not to mention they’re both two years older and more experienced. If both start the season in the rotation, it will be because they earned it in spring training.
“That depends on what pitchers are making up that depth.”
Who do you want making up that depth without spending 225M?
Andy wants to re-up:
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/.....94622.html
DT and GB7-
Met Clete Boyer in Atlanta before he passed away a little over two years ago. Gave me a signed picture of him sitting next to Mantle and Maris after their seventh game victory in the 1962 WS against the Giants.
Nice guy and one of the finest fielding third basemen of all time!
Clete Boyer – my father’s absolute favorite player.
BTW- A young Clete Boyer is the spitting image of a young George Clooney!!!
Andy wants to re-up:
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/…..94622.html
**********************************
About 8 years ago I was in Cooperstown with my son at a kids tournament. There was an older guy watching the game. We started chatting and to my surprise it was Clete Boyer. We talked an inning or two. He was very friendly. He had a burger joint in town. What a third baseman!
I’m just saying that if the depth is made up of Mitre, Gaudin, Kennedy, etc, etc, then thats not much different than in the past. If they don’t sign or trade for a starter this off-season then what other choice do they have besides putting Hughes and Joba in the rotation. The fact is that they only had 3 starters at the end of the year that they had any confidence in and one of those may not even be back
Angel – in an Empire State of mind. #27 has arrived!
November 10th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
The more I hear of Clete Boyer on this board, the more I like him. Funny dude.
————————————————————
Boyer was just a big old country boy that could play a Hell of a third base and drink. He was another ballplayer that idolized Mickey Mantle while playing with him on the yankees. Even players on other teams idolized and protected Mantle. A great story teller and told some of the great Mantle stories.
“Did anybody read on MLBTR re: Edwin Jackson? He seems to be a realistic option to acquire via trade considering the Tigers’ bad contracts + future big FAs.”
I can’t see any downside to that, but what would they be looking for?
———————————————
Would probably be looking for us to take on Magglio Ordonez’ hefty contract!
——————
By for now. off to watch Nip/Tuck
OK, let’s agree to disagree on Joba and Phil. I, for one, do not believe that Cash is evasive on this one. This was (and is) his plan from the beginning, for one, to get younger and cheaper in the rotation.
Last year, it did not look like Tex was coming here. I think that was a last minute thing. So the comment about Swish was honest.
Please, no mention of Bubba Crosby, Cody Ransom, or Angel Berroa–it hurts my eyes to read those names.
…”By betting that Joba will be in the pen in 2011, you are betting that Joba will be a failure in the rotation in 2010.
Personally, I hope that doesn’t happen, because I don’t think anyone needs 2-3 years of grooming.”
————————————————————
Fans must remember that Phil has been in the Yankee system longer than Joba has. Joba breezed through all the minor league teams and ended up in the majors at the end of his first season, 2007. He should be given the same amount of time for grooming as Phil. Joba filled in as needed when the Yankees were having a problem with their rotation.
Aceves, Kennedy, Gaudin, Mitre are the depth. Along with McAllister and Ivan Nova as rookies possibly ready to emerge and help at some point. That would be 11 starters assuming that they don’t sign anyone else besides Pettitte.
Yankee Trader
November 10th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
DT and GB7-
Met Clete Boyer in Atlanta before he passed away a little over two years ago. Gave me a signed picture of him sitting next to Mantle and Maris after their seventh game victory in the 1962 WS against the Giants.
Nice guy and one of the finest fielding third basemen of all time!
————————————————————
For those that never got a chance to see Clete Boyer play, watch clips of the 1962 WS against SF. He made Nettles’ third base play in the ’78 WS look like little league play. He was also the best defensive shortstop on the team.
The Yankees went through ’09 with CC, AJ, Pettitte, Joba, and a little bit of Hughes, Gaudin, Mitre, Aceves(1 start), and a very bad Wang. They won, of course, 103.
As constituted now, assuming Pettitte is back, the rotation is the same except Hughes replaces the gaggle that was the no 5 starter last year. That should equate to being better. Of course, there is no guarantee that the other 4 will be as good or better than ’09, but I would hope we see marked improvement from Joba.
http://espn.go.com/blog/SweetS.....scratching
Talk about a homer. Hey, Rob, why don’t you move in with Gammons while you’re at it?
Andrew, all of the pitchers you named are either not good enough to pitch in a quality big league rotation or aren’t ready yet. They provide depth yes but they aren’t guys you want out there unless injuries occur.
Agt Alan Nero says Wang (post shoulder surgery) cleared by Dr. Andrews to throw Dec. 15, be ready for MLB gms mid-Apr, early May
27 minutes ago from web
Ummm guys, I just met and took a picture with Tino Martinez. I am on cloud 24 right now
Jennifer – if you’re around, thank you so much for the info this morning!
“He said no team had SINCE PEE WEE REESE in the 50s”
one thing i miss about about the good old days were the nicknames.
Pee Wee Pedroia would have been such a natural
Angel – in an Empire State of mind. #27 has arrived!
November 10th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
The 40th Anniversary of Sesame Street!!!!
**********************************
There is a cool Sesame Street 40th Anniversary book in Barnes and Noble. I had to be actually pulled away from it by my other half, I got so engrossed in it, lol. Full of interesting trivia and little known facts.
*******
Was it the giant colorful hardcover one???? Yeah… bought it
have been told by several execs that no sign #mariners are considering moving felix hernandez
19 minutes ago from mobile web
Pat
That makes me think they’ll take the risk on their Wang. Viva Viagra!
Yankee Trader-
You are right. I was being silly. Your revisions are much better.
“Agt Alan Nero says Wang (post shoulder surgery) cleared by Dr. Andrews to throw Dec. 15, be ready for MLB gms mid-Apr, early May”
That is good news, but if the agent is saying it, add another month. Then because it’s the Yankees add another month for caution. That puts it about June 1? Still very good news.
I really hope Wang regains his form, even if the Yanks give up on him and he has to do it somewhere else. As long as it isn’t for Boston or LA! If anyone deserves success, it is Wang.
Btw- I bought mega millions tickets for tonight. I am fully prepared to buy Johnny Damon if I win
JeterJobaCanoFanForever, enough said
November 10th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Fans must remember that Phil has been in the Yankee system longer than Joba has. Joba breezed through all the minor league teams and ended up in the majors at the end of his first season, 2007. He should be given the same amount of time for grooming as Phil. Joba filled in as needed when the Yankees were having a problem with their rotation.
—————————————————————
Just to clarify, I meant that I don’t think Joba would require 2-3 years of grooming to be Mo’s heir to the closer throne.
I’m not saying he belongs in the pen. I’m saying if the Yankees were to decide someday that Joba is a future closer, I would hope he would not require 2-3 years of “grooming”.
Erica – always OPPC November 10th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Btw- I bought mega millions tickets for tonight. I am fully prepared to buy Johnny Damon if I win
________________________________________________________________
Can you spring for Andy too?
good job by pat
“have been told by several execs that no sign #mariners are considering moving felix hernandez”
here comes the rumors and idiotic trade proposals.
So if Hughes and Joba both go in the rotation, who will set-up, Robertson? If both of those guys are to be starters then they better add a quality arm or two to the pen.
Melky, Molina, Gaudin, and John Sterling for Felix.. make it happen Cashman.
NYY626
November 10th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Erica – always OPPC November 10th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Btw- I bought mega millions tickets for tonight. I am fully prepared to buy Johnny Damon if I win
________________________________________________________________
Can you spring for Andy too?
**********
I’ll try. But I have to take care of my dad first and set up a trust fund for my sister. I’ll see how much is left for Andy
“About 8 years ago I was in Cooperstown with my son at a kids tournament. There was an older guy watching the game. We started chatting and to my surprise it was Clete Boyer.”
austinmac-
that’s a nice story. clete had a soft spot for kids. it’s kind of cool picturing him watching a kid’s tournament at that point in his life. there’s no doubt he loved the game.
there was an african american clubhouse kid who picked up towels and stuff in clete’s bradenton explorer clubhouse back in 1990. the team paid the kid, but if i got in there early enough, i’d see clete slip the kid money every day to go get breakfast at a place next to the ball field.
Both Tweets from Joel Sherman. Not sure what happened to his name.
This one too:
Keep in mind with Wang, #Yankees Drs. have not seen yet, and club more likely to non-tender than pay min $4M for ’10
42 minutes ago from web
GreenBeret7
November 10th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Yankee Trader
November 10th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
DT and GB7-
Met Clete Boyer in Atlanta before he passed away a little over two years ago. Gave me a signed picture of him sitting next to Mantle and Maris after their seventh game victory in the 1962 WS against the Giants.
Nice guy and one of the finest fielding third basemen of all time!
————————————————————
For those that never got a chance to see Clete Boyer play, watch clips of the 1962 WS against SF. He made Nettles’ third base play in the ‘78 WS look like little league play. He was also the best defensive shortstop on the team.
======
Lol. My dad never tired of telling us Nettles was no Boyer.
Angel – in an Empire State of mind. #27 has arrived!
November 10th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
Andy wants to re-up:
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/…..94622.html
**********************************
======
I now have the full collection of Joey Salvia’s “Oh Andy”.
I look forward to 2010 versions.
Erica – always OPPC
November 10th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
NYY626
November 10th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Erica – always OPPC November 10th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Btw- I bought mega millions tickets for tonight. I am fully prepared to buy Johnny Damon if I win
________________________________________________________________
Can you spring for Andy too?
**********
I’ll try. But I have to take care of my dad first and set up a trust fund for my sister. I’ll see how much is left for Andy
====
When we were kids, we said if we ever won, we’d buy the Yanks. Of course, no single ticket lottery winnings today would fetch them.
Joba really ought to be much better this time around….IF he actually works hard and stays in shape. Perhaps this was a humbling year for him. It’s vital that he’s solid, if not good (doesn’t have to be great)……Phil is behind Joba because of his stint in the pen; he was supposed to stay in AAA this past year. I think he’s going to be up and down this year. Clearly his stuff is back (all he needed to do was stay healthy), but his curve is inconsistent and he still doesn’t have a change; now he’s going to have to work on this in the big leagues (when he should have been doing this in the minors).
Aceves and Gaudin are good short-term backups for the kids………..Hopefully IPK and co. will stay healthy as the minors were just battered by injuries last year.
So what happens if the Yankees non-tender Wang? That would mean he’s definitely not coming back?
Erica – always OPPC November 10th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
**********
I’ll try. But I have to take care of my dad first and set up a trust fund for my sister. I’ll see how much is left for Andy
______________________________________________________________
I’m not sure I love this answer. Must I remind you that Andy had a world series RBI and won all of the clinching games this post season?
NYY626
November 10th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Erica – always OPPC November 10th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
**********
I’ll try. But I have to take care of my dad first and set up a trust fund for my sister. I’ll see how much is left for Andy
______________________________________________________________
I’m not sure I love this answer. Must I remind you that Andy had a world series RBI and won all of the clinching games this post season?
********
Okay, what if I go half with the Steinbrenners for Andy
“So what happens if the Yankees non-tender Wang? That would mean he’s definitely not coming back?”
No. It could mean they might want to sign him for something other than the arbitration $$.
randy l.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
“He said no team had SINCE PEE WEE REESE in the 50s”
one thing i miss about about the good old days were the nicknames.
Pee Wee Pedroia would have been such a natural
————————————————————
Can you imagine in the old days when someone would hang a nickname on someone based on appearance. You’d have Bob “F-a-t-t-y” Fothergill”, C-h-u-b-b-y Dean, F-a-t-t-y Sabathia. How about George “Pickles” Gerken or Bill “Pickles” Dillhoefer? Hugh “One Arm” Dailey” or Charlie “Piano Legs” Hickman? The worst would be Bubbles Hargrave or Pinky Higgins.
Okay, what if I go half with the Steinbrenners for Andy
_________________________________________________________________
I can live with this. LOL
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
November 10th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
GreenBeret7
November 10th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Yankee Trader
November 10th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
DT and GB7-
Met Clete Boyer in Atlanta before he passed away a little over two years ago. Gave me a signed picture of him sitting next to Mantle and Maris after their seventh game victory in the 1962 WS against the Giants.
Nice guy and one of the finest fielding third basemen of all time!
————————————————————
For those that never got a chance to see Clete Boyer play, watch clips of the 1962 WS against SF. He made Nettles’ third base play in the ‘78 WS look like little league play. He was also the best defensive shortstop on the team.
======
Lol. My dad never tired of telling us Nettles was no Boyer.
————————————————————
As outstanding as Nettles was, and he was borderline great, there’s zero comparison between Boyer and Brooks Robinson, except Boyer had the superior arm. What Robinson had was the bat.
NYY626
November 10th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Erica – always OPPC November 10th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
**********
I’ll try. But I have to take care of my dad first and set up a trust fund for my sister. I’ll see how much is left for Andy
______________________________________________________________
I’m not sure I love this answer. Must I remind you that Andy had a world series RBI and won all of the clinching games this post season?
=========
http://soundcloud.com/joeysalvia
Don’t know if this was posted yet, so here goes:
“Agt Alan Nero says Wang (post shoulder surgery) cleared by Dr. Andrews to throw Dec. 15, be ready for MLB gms mid-Apr, early May”
http://twitter.com/nyp_joelshe.....5607751311
Shamwow is ON YES!
LOL
Betsy
November 10th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
So what happens if the Yankees non-tender Wang? That would mean he’s definitely not coming back?
————————————————————
For some reason, I think that perhaps I’d better not respond to this one.
Tom in NJ,
Tx – keep the good news coming.
http://shop.mlb.com/product/in.....39.3896898
I wish they have every Yankee playoff game in BluRay….
Pat, thanks! I don’t know how I feel about the situation – Wang is clearly injury prone and it’s not likely he’s ever going to get back to his old form. This is what, 2 shoulder surgeries he’s had now?
GB, why not?
As a Yankee fan . I’m happy with the Wang news , but not excited.
Wang right now is no better than Mitre or Gaudin, He’s coming off a big injury and who knows what your getting. I know he pitched a couple of 19 game winning seasons. However he also pitched some of the worse baseball i have ever seen.
He’ll be signed to an incentive laden contract, If he works out . Great .if not no big deal.
I believe the Yanks will still be on the trade front and free agency front for a starter. We could use an inusrance policy !
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes November 10th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
http://soundcloud.com/joeysalvia
_____________________________________________________________
This is amazing. Thanks Bod!
I was old enough to appreciate how good Nettles was. I’ve seen some clips of Boyer.
It’s never the same as seeing a guy under your nose, of course.
BTW, the SS in the system who has me really excited is Jose Mojica.
I’m hoping he comes to Staten Island for short season so I can see him – but they may just ship him out to you. If so, I will look forward to your impressions. He’s coming off an injury, but he’ll still probably be at Charleston.
They do play some games in Lakewood, N.J., which I can get to, so I’ll have to get out there.
What I love best is what a complete defensive SS he reportedly is – in-game smarts, great arm, soft hands, good range. Also supposed to have line drive and HR power, and knows how to work the count. All of this is hearsay, of course – but I like what I hear.
I’m not interested in giving up what we’d have to give up to get Halladay, but this would make me sick:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....-1.1579223
Anyone see Selig with Costas on MLB? Selig is such a sourpuss, Costas should be commissioner.
Betsy
November 10th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
Pat, thanks! I don’t know how I feel about the situation – Wang is clearly injury prone and it’s not likely he’s ever going to get back to his old form. This is what, 2 shoulder surgeries he’s had now?
GB, why not?
————————————————————
In response to the last questio….because I’m of a sick mind, and there were other ways to answer that question not suitable for a “family publication”.
As far as CMW being injury prone, the first shoulder injury can happen to any pitcher at any time. After he was healthy in 2005, he pitched better than 95% of the starters in baseball. The foot injury was a freak thing, and was more seriously damaged than the foot injury that Bruney suffered that year. Much more was involved. The 2009 shoulder injury was because of the lower body weakness affecting his throwing motion. However, there is nothing to say that he can’t or won’t return from that injury to be as good as he was. Baseball has a ton of them that returned after more than one arm/shoulder injury. Jim Palmer was supposed to be washed up in 1969, again in 1969 and again in the mid-70s. He’s in the HOF.
GB7,
I should have addressed post on Mojica to you, as was intended.
Looks like the kids will be in Lakewood in early May. Too bad Manny’s in Tampa. But Vizcaino, among other studs, will likely be on the roster.
Betsy — Funny reading how Hollidays first choice is the Yankees.
I can’t see the Phillies letting the Mets getting Halliday.
Meh. I’d rather win going forward by blending in our young system arms with the FAs & vets we’ve got.
I don’t want Cashman driving defensively.
Oh, GB, lol…….
That’s true about the foot injury being a fluke; do you think the Yankees are likely to try and work something out with Wang? I hope they do – for a little over a million, they need to give the guy a chance to come back for them.
I didn’t realize Jim Palmer suffered serious injuries……Maybe Wang will come back and do underwear commercials.
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
November 10th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
I was old enough to appreciate how good Nettles was. I’ve seen some clips of Boyer.
It’s never the same as seeing a guy under your nose, of course.
BTW, the SS in the system who has me really excited is Jose Mojica.
I’m hoping he comes to Staten Island for short season so I can see him – but they may just ship him out to you. If so, I will look forward to your impressions. He’s coming off an injury, but he’ll still probably be at Charleston.
They do play some games in Lakewood, N.J., which I can get to, so I’ll have to get out there.
What I love best is what a complete defensive SS he reportedly is – in-game smarts, great arm, soft hands, good range. Also supposed to have line drive and HR power, and knows how to work the count. All of this is hearsay, of course – but I like what I hear.
————————————————————
If he comes here this year, I’ll keep you updated on him. Sounds like a kid that will be fun to “scout and track”. You guys will get Brandon Laird and Austin Romine to team with Montero this coming season. I hope Trento as a large supply of baseballs. Also watch for pitchers DJ Mitchell and later David Phelps. And the best is yet to come…Manny Banuelos.
Mike, I don’t believe that about Holliday (not that it matters – I don’t think the Yankees will get involved in bidding for him). Unfortunately, the only reason players want to play for the Yankees is big $$$$. I’m normally not a cynical person – in fact, I’m on the naive side – but I don’t trust any player that says they’ve always wanted to play for the Yankees. Holliday and Boras are not going to get the Yankees in a bidding war – the Yanks have learned their lesson from years past.
I don’t what Clete Boyer’s Zone rating would be, however he was The Best 3rd Baseman I’ve ever seen….He covered the line with a blanket ( and he played 6-8 feet off the line easily ), and just throw a seed to first base from his knees….He made Tony Kubek a good SS…..Man he was something to behold….Tough SOB as well……Batted 8th and posted some nice numbers….Brother Ken had the stick…..
Betsy
November 10th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
Oh, GB, lol…….
That’s true about the foot injury being a fluke; do you think the Yankees are likely to try and work something out with Wang? I hope they do – for a little over a million, they need to give the guy a chance to come back for them.
I didn’t realize Jim Palmer suffered serious injuries……Maybe Wang will come back and do underwear commercials.
————————————————————
Yeah, Betsy, I can’t see the Yanks letting him walk and end up in Boston. I’d re-up him for 2 mil plus incentives for next season and get him in shape. He got paid this year and will receive a full share of maybe 300,000 or 400,000 dollars for winning the WS, so, he’s not broke. Nobody else would pay that much on a hope. It’s not as if he got hurt by refusing to follow team orders.
Palmer got hurt after his rookie season in 1966 and was always hurt. He said he’d get it fixed and in 1969, he was 16-4 and pitched a no hitter. He won 20 games in 8 of the next 10 years.
I wish commenter miggs would show up and take my bet before any more news on CM Wang is released. :mad $$
GB, you think he’d end up in Boston? Wang has a bad record there………..eh, now that I think about it, yeah – the Sox would do it to screw the Yankees. The Yanks have the $$ – they need to give his a chance, like they did with Lieber.
Wow, 20 games in 8 out of 10 years? That’s impressive. I only remember Palmer when he was nearing retirement, so I never really saw him pitch. He must have been something.
Betsy
Why would Halladay to the Mets make you sick? Get him out of the AL and not allow him to get gifted to the Red Sox.
You are right. Players, most importantly, Jeter, demand top dollar from the Yankees. Therefore, the Yankees should not be blamed for their high payroll. In essence, the Yankees have to pay the “Yankee tax” that many speak of in order to get players. So our payroll is 80 million more than the Red Sox. Who cares. It’s only because we do not get players willing to take 80 million less to play for us.
IMO, the Red Sox have nearly as much talent as the Yankees (aside from the fact that their team is aging and injury prone), they just pay 80 million less to get it.
Pat M.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
I don’t what Clete Boyer’s Zone rating would be, however he was The Best 3rd Baseman I’ve ever seen….He covered the line with a blanket ( and he played 6-8 feet off the line easily ), and just throw a seed to first base from his knees….He made Tony Kubek a good SS…..Man he was something to behold….Tough SOB as well……Batted 8th and posted some nice numbers….Brother Ken had the stick…..
————————————————————
Kenny Boyer, Ron Santo, Jim Kaat, Tommy John and Bert Blyleven are the same of the HOF. There were 4 third basemen that dominated baseball in the 50s and 60s. Santo, Matthews, Robinson and Kenny Boyer. Richie Allen could have if he had the desire to.
Kenny Boyer, Ron Santo, Jim Kaat, Tommy John and Bert Blyleven are the ***shame*** of the HOF.
CR, I detest the Mets………and to have to live with Doc and Santana in the same town would be brutal.
If he comes here this year, I’ll keep you updated on him. Sounds like a kid that will be fun to “scout and track”. You guys will get Brandon Laird and Austin Romine to team with Montero this coming season. I hope Trento as a large supply of baseballs. Also watch for pitchers DJ Mitchell and later David Phelps. And the best is yet to come…Manny Banuelos.
===
Can’t wait for those kids to be in Trenton & I’m beyond pumped about DJ and ManBan.
Betsy
November 10th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
GB, you think he’d end up in Boston? Wang has a bad record there………..eh, now that I think about it, yeah – the Sox would do it to screw the Yankees. The Yanks have the $$ – they need to give his a chance, like they did with Lieber.
Wow, 20 games in 8 out of 10 years? That’s impressive. I only remember Palmer when he was nearing retirement, so I never really saw him pitch. He must have been something.
————————————————————
Without the injuries Palmer would have won 300 games instead of 268. He was a bit of a jerk and in love with himself, but, a great, great pitcher. Picture Josh Beckett of 2007 for 14 years, only better .
Both Santana and Doc are injury prone. The Mets have terrible luck. They are “choke artists.”
I do not want to ever see Boy Halladay pitching against us ever again, and especially not with the Red Sox.
Here’s hoping the Mets find a way to trade garbage for little Boy.
Lol. Listening to Andy interview, I can hear a bit of Gomer Pyle.
If some of the rumors are true, do you know what would make me sick? – Roy Halladay in a Phillies uniform!
If that happens, I’d place money on them in Vegas to get to the World Series next year.
A friend of mine from Philly says that their Front Office just might “mortgage the future” to win next year. They’d consider including Drabek, Brown or Happ – provided they could have a window to negotiate an extension beyond 2010.
GB, Is Richie Ashburn in The Hall ???? I just read the posts from the last thread…I just had to retreat, I could only take so much……CB’s stuff is always a revelation as he also explains and breaks it down to it’s application in relations to the game….Some of the nonsense was coming from guys who were just reading from the text without it’s relevance to the game………Your inhaler comment was just another classic GB7 line….You’ve been on a role brother…..
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
November 10th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
If he comes here this year, I’ll keep you updated on him. Sounds like a kid that will be fun to “scout and track”. You guys will get Brandon Laird and Austin Romine to team with Montero this coming season. I hope Trento as a large supply of baseballs. Also watch for pitchers DJ Mitchell and later David Phelps. And the best is yet to come…Manny Banuelos.
===
Can’t wait for those kids to be in Trenton & I’m beyond pumped about DJ and ManBan.
————————————————————
Phelps may be the best of the bunch. 13-4 this year, sub 3 ERA, doesn’t walk batters. He just turned 23.
http://www.baseball-reference......elps001dav
Good night Yankee people!!!
Boyer was just a big old country boy that could play a Hell of a third base and drink. He was another ballplayer that idolized Mickey Mantle while playing with him on the yankees. Even players on other teams idolized and protected Mantle. A great story teller and told some of the great Mantle stories.
************************************************
He really does sound like one of the good guys, just from stories I’ve read about him on here and in books.
For me, that’s honestly one of the best things about the comments section of this blog. The fact that there are a lot of older Yankee fans on here, who lived the Yankee history I only read about in books, and are willing to share their stories that you wouldn’t hear about but for on here.
It’s pretty darn awesome.
Night Erica – yes, thats the book, I meant. It was really interesting.
The Mets don’t have anything to trade though. I don’t see them getting Halladay, and on top of that they are saying so many players are out of their range salary-wise.
I don’t think the Jays are going to give away Halladay, and the Mets used up their fleecing moment with getting Santana for pretty much nothing.
I read that Wang could have a down turn if he goes to another team in his home endorsements. Not sure how true that is, but for over seas markets the Yankees are the top known team.
I still wonder about the Jays current owners keeping the team. They might be trimming payroll and looking to stock up talent of lower cost in an effort to make it easier to sell the team. It may make them more motivated to trades.
Cry or Cy Jim Palmer…..He was on the last 4 man rotation ( 1971 ) which featured 4 20 game winners….The were upset by the Pirates in the 1971 Series……Never faced him during Spring Training games even though he liked pitching on the back ( B ) Fields….NYC boy with Hollywood looks & charm……He was the essence of sneaky fast, as he had a real slow arm
Phelps may be the best of the bunch. 13-4 this year, sub 3 ERA, doesn’t walk batters. He just turned 23.
http://www.baseball-reference……elps001dav
====
I know he was a sleeper, it’ll be interesting to see what he does as he moves up in the system. I like the 3.55 SO/BB there.
“Your inhaler comment was just another classic GB7 line….You’ve been on a role brother…..”
+++++++
Always classy to poke fun at kids with asthma. A classic GB7 line, indeed.
Costas should be commissioner?
I consider he’s a moron.
Erica – always OPPC
November 10th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
Good night Yankee people!!!
===
G’nite, Erica. Sweet dreams.
Pat M.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
GB, Is Richie Ashburn in The Hall ???? I just read the posts from the last thread…I just had to retreat, I could only take so much……CB’s stuff is always a revelation as he also explains and breaks it down to it’s application in relations to the game….Some of the nonsense was coming from guys who were just reading from the text without it’s relevance to the game………Your inhaler comment was just another classic GB7 line….You’ve been on a role brother…..
————————————————————
ashburn’s been in the HOF for about 20 years, I think. Hell of a ballhawk and great leadoff hitter.
The inhaler remark just slipped out. I hate numbers watchers that won’t combine the visual and common sense with the numbers. That kid was beyond ridiculous. All he cares about is what that idiot James tells him.
Neyer’s remarks today was even worse, when talking about GG winners. Polanco won at 2nd base, had the same Assists, putouts, DPs as Pedroia, plus his beloved range factor and made 2 errors in 150+ igames and more innings played. Personally, I would have chosen Hill, but, perhaps his playing on turf actually hurt him, but when all numbers are equal, how do you chose a guy with 7 errors over a guy with 2?
“I don’t what Clete Boyer’s Zone rating would be, however he was The Best 3rd Baseman I’ve ever seen….”
Better than Brooks Robinson? Always thought that Robinson was a cut better than Boyer.
Ashburn is in the HOF. Didn’t get in from the reporters. Voted in by the veterans committee.
I remember reading about him as a kid. He sounded, well… very fast!
Wang will win cy young in 2011
Pat M.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
Cry or Cy Jim Palmer…..He was on the last 4 man rotation ( 1971 ) which featured 4 20 game winners….The were upset by the Pirates in the 1971 Series……Never faced him during Spring Training games even though he liked pitching on the back ( B ) Fields….NYC boy with Hollywood looks & charm……He was the essence of sneaky fast, as he had a real slow arm
————————————————————
Always thought that he was the right handed version of the 1960′s Jim Kaat. Almost perfect mechanics. Kaat was the perfect gentleman, though. he’s another great Mantle fan.
Chad Jennings replied and will have a progress report for the blog at some point on Christian Garcia.
Good night, all.
I remember watching Ashburn through the late 50s-early 60s when they played the Cubs on TV and Lord, he was lightening fast. Almost Gardner fast with a good arm, great bat and covered center field better than Garry Maddux ever did. Almost zero power, though.
I like the way you think, JMK, but… in what uniform???
Costas should be commissioner?
I consider he’s a moron.
—————————–
Right, Costas is the moron. Cuckoo!
I thought Brooksie had a better arm than Nettles, but that Nettles was as good at everything else.
CB, I wish you were here earlier today, as your insight would have gone a very long way……Brooks won the Gold Gloves, Clete got the rings….Many always believed that Boyer was lost amongst the Yankee galaxy of stars, plus Brooks hit and was very easy going…..
Did you miss the part in which Cashman specifically stated that there will be a long list of starting pitching depth next spring training? That’s different than what happened in 2008.
—
Nope. I also didn’t miss the part where he started mentioning names that are even more of a risk.
Clete Boyer’s biggest problem with the bat was that he was a right handed hitter that didn’t pull the ball. His best shots were into Death Valley and the only one that could conquer that area was Mantle, though Howard and Skowren could reach the bullpen on occassion.
Pat M.,
The club needs more offense next year. They really do. I think it’s a top priority. Can’t count on everyone having the same season they did this year around.
This was one of those magical years where everything comes together. Tex, Alex, and Cano are solid for next year. I don’t see the rest of the cast being able to reproduce what they did last year in aggregate.
Very tough nut to crack. Holliday isn’t worth more than 4 yrs/60M. He’ll get more. Bay I don’t want at all. The rest of the free agent class is mediocre at best.
Both Damon and Matsui are best served as being DH’s at this point. I have more confidence in matsui’s bat swing than I do in Damon’s. Obviously, Damon’s knees are better than Matsui’s.
Seems like a trade would help but I don’t see a good target.
CB, I’m on board with you about the lineup…..I see Holliday as a right handed Paul O’Niel type hitter…..Yanks cannot lose both Matsui & Damon’s lefty stick….With Montero just a year or 2 away from being the DH, I hope Matsui can stick around around at least for 2010…….That being said CB, there is a glaring gap in the rotation behind Sabathia…Here’s the deal, will AJ Burnett rebound or is 2009 pretty much what we’re going to get….I was very mucg for signing him last season as I just love the electricity in that arm….But man, he’s a gray hair pitcher
chad…u gotta give me a post past 7 pm…i love u and have been following you for a while…but you could have taken half of your final post and used for a later post for us to go to sleep with
If I had a preference of a corner outfielder that could be had at a reasonable cost of money and player return, it would be between Corey Hart or Michael Cuddyer. That’s assuming that Suzuki, Markakis, Crawford and Lind are untouchable. Of course, Nelson Cruz would be more than acceptable, but, Texas won’t move him anytime soon. Eithier is still a little uneven as an outfielder.
I’d love to get Carl Crawford. The Rays just picked up his option for $10mil, but can they really afford to pay that to one guy who is not middle of the order or top of the rotation? I think they may have picked up that option to possibly use him as a trading chip, knowing that he worth much more than $10mil/year.
GB, True be told, I wish Cashman can home from Indy next month with a Centerfielder…..
“there is a glaring gap in the rotation behind Sabathia…Here’s the deal, will AJ Burnett rebound or is 2009 pretty much what we’re going to get”
I do think the offense is the more pressing issue but I very much agree with your take on the rotation. As usual you’ve hit the nail on the head.
Big question with AJ is whether he’ll rebound next year and show better control. 2009 was one of the worst control years in AJ’s career and that really says something.
If he can just get back to average command/control next year he’s a legit 2. This year he was no better than a 3 and even then he was a 3 that would drive you crazy.
If we have to see more of those fastball running back arm side out over the heart of the plate… I can’t remeber that last time I watched a pitcher get a chance to throw so many innings while missing his spots so often.
That said, I do think AJ will be better next year. Maybe that’s a misplaced assumption but I think (hope??) he will settle down.
Losing Wang is such a problem. He was the perfect #2 behind CC.
They have depth in pitching however and I think they could work it out for next year.
They have little depth in terms of hitting. Damon or Matsui, etc. come back and get hurt they are stuck with very subpar production replacing them.
Meant to say if AJ could get back to the average command/control he’s shown over his career (walking around 3.5/9 rather than 4.2/9) he’s a legit 2….
Pat M.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:33 am
GB, True be told, I wish Cashman can home from Indy next month with a Centerfielder…..
————————————————————
I’d like that too, but, not much out there that can be had. Young, cheap and talented isn’t coming to NYY very soon. I wish that Cashman had some compromising photos of Seattle’s Jack Zduriencik and a couple of sheep. Franklin Gutierrez would do just fine. Until Alex Rios had completely unglued, he would have been a logical solution in center field.
CB, You’re explanation on AJ is very precise…..I also think he’ll settle down in 2010…The Wang disaster is a much bigger issue than many here realize…They were able to overcome his lost this October, but it’s not going to happen again……I don’t think both Hughes & Joba are rotation mates until 2011….That’s if one of them isn’t moved this winter
~~~~I wish that Cashman had some compromising photos of Seattle’s Jack Zduriencik and a couple of sheep. Franklin Gutierrez would do just fine.~~~~
If nothing else, the M’s sure know how to raise/pick CF’ers
(Jr, Cammy, Jones, Guti to name a few)
Uncle E,
sorry i wasnt around much today, i have 4 teams in the playoffs and had 3 home games tonight. I wish i could have split myself in 3rds…Instead i ran around like a chicken without a head. If you email me point6seconds@gmail.com i can tell you about incanto, reds and a few other places.
Congratulations to Jeter and Tex for the gold gloves, apparently there is some sort of flood in the boston area tonight from the mobs of people crying foul over Pukelis not getting one.
CompassRosy
November 11th, 2009 at 1:20 am
~~~~I wish that Cashman had some compromising photos of Seattle’s Jack Zduriencik and a couple of sheep. Franklin Gutierrez would do just fine.~~~~
If nothing else, the M’s sure know how to raise/pick CF’ers
(Jr, Cammy, Jones, Guti to name a few)
————————————————————
Yes they do. They have so many that they have to stick them in right field so they don’t get confused.
I’m hoping that one day Cashman can steal one from Seatlle before they reach they age of 30.
***Seattle***
GB, Maybe that’s where Cashman finds a CF next month….Seattle
PAT M, that would be great, but, we’ll have to kidnap CompassRosy and keep her quiet. She talks a lot. I wonder if they’d take Cabrera or Brett Gardner, Eduardo Nunez, Ivan Nova and Colin Curtis for Gutierrez along with a bad contract like Bill Hall (anybody with Silva).
Bill Hall (anybody ***but*** Silva).
~~~~PAT M, that would be great, but, we’ll have to kidnap CompassRosy and keep her quiet. She talks a lot.~~~~
Well, I don’t know about that….
But I DO belong to the Real Women Love Leather Society (as opposed to that lame Chicks dig the long ball club)
CompassRosy
November 11th, 2009 at 2:23 am
~~~~PAT M, that would be great, but, we’ll have to kidnap CompassRosy and keep her quiet. She talks a lot.~~~~
Well, I don’t know about that….
But I DO belong to the Real Women Love Leather Society (as opposed to that lame Chicks dig the long ball club)
————————————————————
Too funny, Rosy. Are you sure that you’re not a closet Yankee fan?
~~~~Too funny, Rosy. Are you sure that you’re not a closet Yankee fan?~~~~
Bite your tongue, sir!
Mariner navy and teal I bleed.
Defense has always been my favorite part of the game – could watch great play highlights all day long…
I just read that the M’s have had a Gold Glove winner for 23 consecutive seasons (longest streak in the majors). So, despite a no WS so far and a too few playoff appearances, at least I’ve had the consolation of watching some pretty great “D” over the years.
Rosy, for whatever the reason, the Mariners have always had two of the three (pitching, defense and offense) but, never all three at the same time. For a team with no titles, you boast an alumni of some of the best talent, from Alvin Davis to Mark Langston to Junior, to the Martinez’, Buhner, Rodriguez, Johnson to Suzuki and on, but, could never get them together. It seems right now they have a possible first baseman with a big bat in Lopez and they’re trying to unload him. Any reason?
Edwin Jackson is on the market ???? He faded down the stretch, but then again he was overused I think ….
PAT M, I can’t figure out why they’d want to unload Jackson. He’s young, cheap, talented and controlled for three more years. I wonder what the asking price is?
I know that you share the same opinion as I do about Edwin….This would be the perfect time to snag him….Catch you tomorrow…I’ve been watching the Rocky Marathon, Rocky III just started
“I’m just saying that if the depth is made up of Mitre, Gaudin, Kennedy, etc, etc, then thats not much different than in the past. If they don’t sign or trade for a starter this off-season then what other choice do they have besides putting Hughes and Joba in the rotation. The fact is that they only had 3 starters at the end of the year that they had any confidence in and one of those may not even be back”
Again, which starter do you want Cashman to trade for or sign then?
A great read by the RAB guys about Cashman’s plan of attack in regard to this 2010 roster.
http://riveraveblues.com/
Happy Veteran’s Day to Green Beret 7 and all my fellow veterans. And thank you to all those who currently serve.
Craw
Thank you for the RAB post. That should be required reading for anyone on this blog suggesting a trade.
Crawdaddy. Its hard to say specifically because we don’t know exactly what the market is for certain players and who is available. I would certainly keep an eye on lackey and possibly go there if he would accept a Burnett type deal. He’s not a #1 but he’s as reliable as they come. I’d check in on trades for felix Josh Johnson Cain kershaw halladay etc and see what it would take. Fall back options would be taking a flyer on a guy like sheets or looking at someone like randy wolf. I think they need another guy on the staff who has proven they can succeed as a big league starter. As to who I think that should be it just all depends on how things unfold
Thank you, Tala.
I am glad to have served.
Good times [and some not so good times]
good stories, and good people.
Occasionally even good food!
This is for GB:
Go Navy! hahaha
Happy Veterans’ Day.
Fellow vets, I thank you for your service.
Thank you to all of you who have served and to those currently serving.
Oh no way Smacketh Downeth. Its Army! lol
And the only good food I had was when I was in Bosnia during Thanksgiving.
Brett Gardner made no real progress with the bat this year. His speed kept him on the roster.
What’s seen of Brett Gardner may be as good as he’ll ever get. Kevin Long spent considerable time with him this year.
Good spring showings by A-Jax or Colin Curtis could push Gardner back to AAA.
Happy Veteran’s Day to all you vets. You have my thanks and respect.
Happy Veteran’s Day and a sincere thanks to all who have served and are serving.
I think you kind of have to ignore the rate at which A.J. Burnett walks batters. It sounds crazy but when his walk rates are up his ERA is usually down.
If you look at his numbers from 2007-2009 when he walks 2 or less in a game his ERA is 4.55. When he walks 3 or more in a game his ERA is 2.17.
I’m not saying that I root for A.J. to walk batters, I’m simply saying that I don’t think basing his value (is he a #2 or #3 starter?) on his BB/9 is valid.
I do agree that this team needs more offense. Look at all the guys on the roster and all of them either met expectations or over-performed. There is no way that happens again, especially considering how many Yankees are on the downside of their careers.
Thanks for the info Chad!
If Damon walks, we can sign Cameron for a year until we can make a run at Carl Crawford. If we can get Matsui for a year, that would be good, not much more. I would pass on all of the FA pitchers out there. Next year’s pitching crop has Cliff Lee, Brandon Webb, and potentially Roy Halladay. So that is where the money is going to go. Cashman has proven, like with Santana, that he will look ahead to moves down the road, instead of what’s available at the moment.
And I dont want to hear any of this Randy Wolf nonsense. He’s a career NL pitcher with a 4 era. Plus he’s a bum in the post season. The AL East & NY has a way of humbling those types of pitchers. Carl Pavano ring a bell?
Happy Veteran’s Day to all of our Heroes!
Someone earlier in the thread mentioned Brad Hawpe as a possible target. I’m cool with that as long as he is never given a glove. He’s atrocious in the field; basically the worst fielder in the majors in 2009. He’d make a pretty good DH though.
I see absolutely no reason why Jeter can not have another great year, even if he doesn’t hit .334 again. Swish will be solid – he’s never going to hit for a high average, so forget looking for that, but why shouldn’t he continue doing what he’s done?
Why do all the players have to duplicate their years? Even if Damon falls off a little, or Posada – do we eally think that they are going to be bad? That’s Damon, Cano, Tex, Jeter, Swish, Posada, Alex – we’re only talking real question marks with CF. I guess I just don’t see how this team is going to fall off the cliff offensively and why it’s a real concern. They don’t have to be AS good as they were last year to be very good……..
Now, if Damon/Matsui (or one of them) aren’t coming back, then Cash will need to make a trade as there’s simply nothing in the FA market (Holliday is not happening – too many years and too much $$$). Cash is going to have to trade some of his prospects – there’s no way around it. Of course, teams only ever want Montero and Jackson. Maybe they can trade a McAllister or a Dunn? One of their many catching prospects? I don’t see Matsui coming back – he’s got a lot of pride and he wants to play OF. Some team will be foolish enough to hand LF over to him…..and for multiple years.
So no one is willing to trust the Yankees with Austin Jackson? They clearly like him – why would they trade valuable prospects for a CF when they have one in their system that might very well be ready in another year?
“A great read by the RAB guys about Cashman’s plan of attack in regard to this 2010 roster.
http://riveraveblues.com/”
crawdaddy-
did i miss something or is this the summation of that article?
“By the time they’re done evaluating their situation, they’ll come up with a few plans, actually. There’s the primary plan and then a number of backup plans in case one aspect or another of the primary plan falls through. Last year the Yankees got lucky. Their Plan A worked out. That won’t always be the case, and it likely won’t be the case this year. In any case, the Yankees will act according to their plans. If something unexpected comes up they might alter the plan, but otherwise they’re going to act consistently with it.”
maybe a dumb question, but does anyone really think the yankees won’t have a plan?
i didn’t really see any specific plan of attack by cashman written about.
maybe i missed something.
From the talk, it sounds like this team sucks, lol……..
Pat M, I disagree. Phil might not be in the rotation all year, but unless he’s to be kept at AAA all year, I definitely see him in the rotation (and Joba will obviously be there). Phil was supposed to spend 2009 in AAA so he could be ready to start in the majors in 2010 – well, that didn’t work out. Either they send him to AAA to get innings in and then he comes up or they skip his starts on the major league level – but Phil is going to be in the rotation in 2010.
Betsy,
True, there is no reason Jeter can’t have another great year. It’s also possible that Damon, Matsui, Posada and Cabrera all have similar years in 2010 as they did in 2009. However, it’s not probable that they ALL duplicate their performance next year.
It’s pretty likely that A-rod, Teixeira, Cano and Swisher put up similar numbers (and in A-rod’s case, better numbers) next year. But it’s far less likely that Jeter, Damon, Matsui and Posada do so.
I’m sure some of those guys will have great years and some won’t. In 2009, they all had great years. The chance of that happening again is very low, simply because they are in the declining phase of their careers.
That’s why a lot of people on here think the Yanks will need more offense – to counteract the possibly declining performance of the older players on the roster. You don’t want to be in a situation mid-year where the offense is not very good and Cashman is forced to make a deadline deal for another bat. That’s what happened in 2008 and it didn’t work out well at all.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....0HAmSEpkcN
That “great read” was more like a term paper on the theory of roster development in the off season without a single specific piece of information except that teams have different priorities/issues than fans.
Well, duh! That was enlightening.
I don’t think the Yanks do anything significant until they settle Pettite’s status. If he returns then they are dealing from strength in developing the 2010 pitching staff.
I disagree with the idea that several players are sure to have a drop off next year. Alex will probably have a more productive season. Melky and Cano are developing players whose best years should be ahead of them. Jorge has had better years, too. I’d settle for repeat numbers from everyone else.
Lsst year the Yanks were the hunter… this year they are the hunted. The approach is bound to change. I’d rather see a Jon Leiber type deal for Sheets than $ 80 Million or whatever for Lackey though I like Lackey a lot.
86w,
I never said that anyone is “sure to drop off” next year. I’m saying the chances of one or more of Damon, Matsui, Jeter and Posada dropping off are fairly high. All four of those guys out-performed any and all projections they had in 2009. I don’t think they can ALL do that again.
Again, after the all-star break Jackson had no home runs and a .624 OPS in AAA. No, I do not want to hand him center field.
Patrick, if we assume that those players you mentioned will experience something of a decline, what do you suggest we do? They can not sign Damon and Matsui and go full bore into FA – but Holliday is going to be on the wrong side of 30 soon. I don’t want to give him 5/6 years and 18/19 million dollars a year……I don’t think the Yankees do. Therefore, trades are the only viable option. Despite what we think of our farm system, other GMs don’t think it’s that good – the only players they are ever interested in are Jackson (to be given a shot at CF next yaer) and Montero…….or, Hughes/Joba. Maybe we can trade a McAllister or a Dunn or one of our catching prospects…..but that would get us a prospect, not an established player.
I meant, that they have the option of not signing Damon/Matsui so they can get younger……..
“Crawdaddy. Its hard to say specifically because we don’t know exactly what the market is for certain players and who is available. I would certainly keep an eye on lackey and possibly go there if he would accept a Burnett type deal. He’s not a #1 but he’s as reliable as they come. I’d check in on trades for felix Josh Johnson Cain kershaw halladay etc and see what it would take. Fall back options would be taking a flyer on a guy like sheets or looking at someone like randy wolf. I think they need another guy on the staff who has proven they can succeed as a big league starter. As to who I think that should be it just all depends on how things unfold”
So in other words, you want to increase the payroll and perhaps trade valuable prospects. First off, I don’t think ownership will want to increase their payroll. Secondly, even if they make a trade for a top of the line pitcher, it’s going to be expensive in not only salary, but prospects going the other way.
Betsy,
I agree, Holliday is not the optimal solution but he might be the only one.
I think Cashman will have to make a decision on Matsui and Damon and whether he thinks one, both or neither will have another great season in 2010. My guess is that he probably will pick one of them and then sign Holliday or try to make a trade.
You seem pessimistic about making a trade but it’s not that bad. With the bad economy there will be a lot of teams trying to cut payroll which means a lot of available players. Other GM’s don’t think the Yankees system is bad, most think it is in the middle of the pack – which it is.
How much would it really take to get someone like Milton Bradley, Brad Hawpe, etc. I know you all don’t like Bradley but that’s not the only name out there. There will be trade options available and if nothing is to Cashman’s liking, Holliday is out there.
Happy Veterans Day to all Veterans out there. Thank you for all you do.
Especially you- GB7
michelle b. – Let’s Hear it for New York, New York!
November 11th, 2009 at 1:25 am
Congratulations to Jeter and Tex for the gold gloves, apparently there is some sort of flood in the boston area tonight from the mobs of people crying foul over Pukelis not getting one.
***************
I am guessing they don’t think Youk should be honored for his outstanding contributions at Left Field this year
You do understand that by signing Damon or Matsui and then signing Holliday, the payroll basically remains the same even if they let Molina, Hairston and Hinske go. Pettitte will probably get an increase and a few players like Cano and Swisher make more money next season due to their contracts. Also, how much money do they spend on the pitching next season. Wang, Gaudin and Mitre???
The key question that has to be answered is what is next year’s payroll budget.
Crawdaddy. Obviously you aren’t listening to what I’m saying. I didn’t propose anything specific and said they would need to wait and see how the market plays out. I don’t think they will go on a spending spree like last season but I do think they will sign somebody. A lot of people think it will be lackey. And of course I wouldn’t trade a ton of prospects but you never know what deals are out there until you see. if nothing else I would like to see them take a risk on sheets or sign wolf to five the back end some experience. I think you are foo.ing yourself if you think the Yankees are going to do nothing this offseason
Crawdaddy. Obviously you aren’t listening to what I’m saying. I didn’t propose anything specific and said they would need to wait and see how the market plays out. I don’t think they will go on a spending spree like last season but I do think they will sign somebody. A lot of people think it will be lackey. And of course I wouldn’t trade a ton of prospects but you never know what deals are out there until you see. if nothing else I would like to see them take a risk on sheets or sign wolf to five the back end some experience. I think you are foo.ing yourself if you think the Yankees are going to do nothing this offseason
cashman will talk to his scouts to see wat ajax & others can be
if a trade can be worked out that cashman likes he will trade almost anybody
but i dont see him trading for an older player
if it is the right fit he does it
if we can trade a kennedy,ajax,??? for crawford or a lf/rf why not?
i think it gets tricky when hughes,joba,montero are wanted by other teams
we have a ton of prospects & we cant keep them all
we cant have a 20 man rotation
if the mariners take hughes,joba & ajax for king felix do you do it
what happens if cashman has that chance & talks to his managers,coaches,scouts & they all want to??
king felix more than replaces 1 pitcher so it comes down to losing ajax & a pitcher
can you imagine running
cc
king felix
burnett
pettitte
kennedy/??? out there?
we can use robertson as our 8th inning man or trade for one
Next year’s payroll budget is likely the same as this year’s budget but that’s impossible for us to know.
Let’s break it down..
Right now there is $166 mil on the books for 2010. Wang gets non-tendered and re-signs for a lower dollar amount. Damon or Matsui re-sign for less money than they made in 2009. I agree, Pettitte gets a raise maybe $11 mil base salary. They can keep Gaudin, Mitre, Hinske and Hairston for not much money at all. I’d non-tender Bruney. That leaves a lot of room for Holliday, if that’s the route Cashman decides to go.
Yankees are STOCKED with young talent ! Didn’t their AA and AAA teams win championships over the past 3 years? AA won 2 years in a row, and AAA won it last year. I think their minor league teams had to defeat the red sox minor league teams along the way a few times, too.
Why in the world would NYY go after a jerk and a clubhouse distraction like bradley, who can’t even stay on the field. He misses 25% of the games. He’s a headache for every teram and manager he;s played for. He couldn’t even get along with Derrick Lee, one of the most even tempered players around.
Hawpe may have a decent enough bat, but, he has no speed to speak of and his defense is shakey, and you want him patrolling the biggest left field in the league? I don’t think so. Then, of course there’s the matter of talent to move, because they have no reason to give him away. he gets 7.5 mil in 2010. His 2011 option is 10 mil. If he’s traded, he can and would void the option yeay. NYY gets him for 1 year.
Patrick
November 11th, 2009 at 9:11 am
Next year’s payroll budget is likely the same as this year’s budget but that’s impossible for us to know.
Let’s break it down..
Right now there is $166 mil on the books for 2010. Wang gets non-tendered and re-signs for a lower dollar amount. Damon or Matsui re-sign for less money than they made in 2009. I agree, Pettitte gets a raise maybe $11 mil base salary. They can keep Gaudin, Mitre, Hinske and Hairston for not much money at all. I’d non-tender Bruney. That leaves a lot of room for Holliday, if that’s the route Cashman decides to go.
*******
I thought Pettitte wound up meeting most of his incentives to earn around 12 million
GreenBeret7
November 11th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Why in the world would NYY go after a jerk and a clubhouse distraction like bradley, who can’t even stay on the field. He misses 25% of the games. He’s a headache for every teram and manager he;s played for. He couldn’t even get along with Derrick Lee, one of the most even tempered players around.
*******
You mean nice sane guys don’t attack broadcasters for saying negative things about them?
Erica – always OPPC
November 11th, 2009 at 9:00 am
Happy Veterans Day to all Veterans out there. Thank you for all you do.
Especially you- GB7
————————————————————
We all thank you for the kind thoughts Erica. That sentiment means everything to the guys and gals in service. It’s deeply appreciated.
Patrick, word is that the Yankees would like both Matsui and Damon back…..but only on the Yankees’ terms. I don’t think they are going to wait forever on either one of them as decisions have to be made. I think Cash will have better luck making trades now than before the trade deadline…so the quicker the Yankees know their situation with Damon/Matui, the better.
2011 kind of looks interesting as far as getting younger. By then, AJax should be ready to be given a huge shot at CF and, depending on how quickly he progresses maybe Montero will push for some playing time.
“Crawdaddy. Obviously you aren’t listening to what I’m saying. I didn’t propose anything specific and said they would need to wait and see how the market plays out. I don’t think they will go on a spending spree like last season but I do think they will sign somebody. A lot of people think it will be lackey. And of course I wouldn’t trade a ton of prospects but you never know what deals are out there until you see. if nothing else I would like to see them take a risk on sheets or sign wolf to five the back end some experience. I think you are foo.ing yourself if you think the Yankees are going to do nothing this offseason”
If you’re saying that I think the Yankees won’t do anything then you’re the one not listening to me. Cashman’s goal is to improve his team from one year to the next.
Happy Veterans’s Day to all the vets out there – GB, to you personally especially. There is no greater sacrifice a person can make than to give one’s life for one’s country and you are all heroes. Frankly, that word doesn’t even do justice to the veterans, but I can’t think of another one right now.
GreenBeret7
November 11th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Why in the world would NYY go after a jerk and a clubhouse distraction like bradley, who can’t even stay on the field. He misses 25% of the games. He’s a headache for every teram and manager he;s played for. He couldn’t even get along with Derrick Lee, one of the most even tempered players around.
***********************
If Bradley can’t handle playing in Chicago, there is no way he would be able to handle New York. The guy is a total head case.
GB-I almost forgot-happy Veterans Day
GB7,
Let’s avoid the Bradley thing for today, I was just naming him as a potential trade option.
Hawpe, as I said previously, I would only want as a DH. He was the worst fielder in all of baseball in 2009.
Other names will come up, if Cash needs more offense the easiest spots to fill are LF and DH which is exactly where we have holes.
Betsy,
I don’t think the Yanks will get both Matsui and Damon back but it’s possible. I think that’d be a risky move but it could work out alright.
A few years ago, I went to the National WWII museum in New Orleans and it was an amazing experience. I’ll never forget the images of those injured and dying soldiers on Omaha Beach……they were all so young, just babies. When I went to Washington, D.C., of course I went to all the war memorials – extremely touching and moving.
why are we TOYING around with the Milton Bradley stuff again?! ugh
“Right now there is $166 mil on the books for 2010. Wang gets non-tendered and re-signs for a lower dollar amount. Damon or Matsui re-sign for less money than they made in 2009. I agree, Pettitte gets a raise maybe $11 mil base salary. They can keep Gaudin, Mitre, Hinske and Hairston for not much money at all. I’d non-tender Bruney. That leaves a lot of room for Holliday, if that’s the route Cashman decides to go.”
Even if you sign Wang, Damon or Matsui at a lower rate along with the increase that Pettitte gets, you’re talking about 22M at least which brings the total to 188M. Adding in those other players will add on another 6-7M which brings the total to 194-195M.
How much is Holliday going to sign for and what about the rest of the roster like Melky, who’s arbitration eligible.
Also, ncreases for the other young pitchers like Robertson, Coke, Hughes, Joba and Aceves which add about 2.5-3M.
I total close to 200M even without signing Holliday.
paul
November 11th, 2009 at 9:23 am
why are we TOYING around with the Milton Bradley stuff again?! ugh
*********************
lol SORRY.
Erica – always OPPC
November 11th, 2009 at 9:15 am
GreenBeret7
November 11th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Why in the world would NYY go after a jerk and a clubhouse distraction like bradley, who can’t even stay on the field. He misses 25% of the games. He’s a headache for every teram and manager he;s played for. He couldn’t even get along with Derrick Lee, one of the most even tempered players around.
*******
You mean nice sane guys don’t attack broadcasters for saying negative things about them?
————————————————————
Well, I’m sure Bradley was provoked. After all, how much brutality should a player take? He was yalked mean to.
Seriously, here are some of his issues over the last 3 years, only.
“On September 23, 2007, Bradley tore his right ACL while being restrained by Padres manager Bud Black during an altercation with first base umpire Mike Winters. Home plate umpire Brian Runge reportedly told Bradley that Winters said that Bradley had tossed his bat in Runge’s direction in a previous at-bat. After Bradley reached first base, he questioned Winters about the alleged bat throwing and subsequent communication with Runge. According to Bradley and Padres first base coach Bobby Meacham, Winters used a profanity towards Bradley. Bradley then moved towards Winters. While restrained by Black, Bradley fell to the ground resulting in the injury. He missed the last week of the regular season in 2007, during which the Padres relinquished their division lead, ultimately losing to the eventual N.L. Champion Colorado Rockies in a one game playoff.
Winters was suspended for the remainder of the season and disqualified from the postseason for the incident, after MLB determined that he indeed directed obscene language toward Bradley. Bradley was not suspended, the MLB reasoning that there was no need since he did not make physical contact with Winters.”
2008 season
According to the The Dallas Morning News Bradley attempted to confront Kansas City Royals television announcer Ryan Lefebvre in the press box following a game due to what he believed were unfair comments made on the air. As the Rangers’ designated hitter, Bradley was able to watch the broadcast when he was not on the field and took offense to a comparison Lefebrve made between him and Josh Hamilton. Manager Ron Washington and general manager Jon Daniels chased after him and stopped Bradley before he got to Lefebvre, at which point Bradley returned to the clubhouse in tears and said
“All I want to do is play baseball and make a better life for my kid than I had, that’s it,” Bradley said to a quiet clubhouse. “I love all you guys. … I’m strong, but I’m not that strong.”
Daniels said that Bradley was upset that someone that did not know him was passing judgments about him.
2009 season
Milton Bradley was suspended by the Chicago Cubs for conduct in which the Chicago Cubs manager Hendry viewed as detrimental to the organization after he was quoted as saying there is “negativity” with the organization and the city environment and “you understand why they [Cubs] haven’t won in 100 years here.” He also said he was uncomfortable with his presence with the Chicago Cubs.”
This doesn’t include two other suspensions for bumping umpires.
Crawdaddy. Then were in agreement. I’m all for planning for the future and the last thing I want to see is another period of old players that make too much money and can’t play defense. At the same time I don’t want to plan so much for the future and not the present that 2012 comes along and opportunities were missed in 2010 and 2011.
“I total close to 200M even without signing Holliday.”
Wasn’t the Yankee payroll close to $220 mil in 2009?
At this time, it’s all about what the payroll budget is going to be for Cashman. If he can go over 200M then I can see a major free agent signing, but if he’s restricted to 190M or so then he’s going to have to be very creative which probably means that Holliday or Lackey won’t be playing for the Yankees in 2010.
“Wasn’t the Yankee payroll close to $220 mil in 2009?”
Cot had it at 201M and there have been whispers in the media that ownership has told Cashman to reduce the payroll for 2010. I hope those whispers are wrong.
Some other names:
David DeJesus-solid LF’er. Was a topic of many posts last year.
Ryan Doumit-can play catcher, LF/RF, 1b; sitch hitter with some pop. He was injured most of last year.
betsy
November 11th, 2009 at 9:19 am
Happy Veterans’s Day to all the vets out there – GB, to you personally especially. There is no greater sacrifice a person can make than to give one’s life for one’s country and you are all heroes. Frankly, that word doesn’t even do justice to the veterans, but I can’t think of another one right now.
————————————————————
Your kind thoughts are very much appreciated, Betsy. It means a lot….especiallty to the guys and gals in service overseas and those in reserve and guard units….many who get called up and take heavy financial hits. I wish more people would take the time and effort to let these folks know how people feel. Just a himt. during the holidays, people need to go to churches, VFWs, Legion posts and USOs and get a name/address of someone in your town and right a letter and send a care package to someone overseas.
No more public announcements from me. Thanks, Betsy.
Patrick
November 11th, 2009 at 9:21 am
GB7,
Let’s avoid the Bradley thing for today, I was just naming him as a potential trade option.
————————————————————
I didn’t bring him up. It’s best to avoid even mentioning him.
It will cost more for Hawpe than it would to keep Matsui.
Craw,
Cots has it wrong. They don’t include any of Pettitte’s bonus and it doesn’t include Sabathia’s signing bonus. I think Pettitte ended up making ~5 mil in performance bonuses and Sabathia had a $9 mil signing bonus. Also cots doesn’t include several guys that made the minimum. So that’s at least $14-$20 mil they aren’t adding to that $201 number.
“It will cost more for Hawpe than it would to keep Matsui.”
Hawpe is also 30 yrs old and has 2 knees.
Erin
November 11th, 2009 at 9:21 am
GB-I almost forgot-happy Veterans Day
————————————————————
Thank you for the kind thoughts, Erin.
THANK YOU to all of the veterans ! We can never adequately express our sincere appreciation.
ESPN had the ’09 payroll at just under 209 mil.
Is it just the 25 man (plus DL roster). If it is, it wouldn’t count Igawa or Brackman…
Patrick
November 11th, 2009 at 9:40 am
“It will cost more for Hawpe than it would to keep Matsui.”
Hawpe is also 30 yrs old and has 2 knees
————————————————————
thank goodness he has 2 knees
i can deal with him being 30 yrs old but a player with no knees?
Remember last year when some “in the know” posters were insisting that $ 180 M was the cap for 2009? The Yanks are simply trying to keep payroll relatively flat around $ 200 M and there’s no indication that’s changed.
they can afford to bring everyone back and things won’t change much, but there’s no way they are spending as much on Damon/Matsui. If they can get by with 11 pitchers as they should they can add a defensive OF specialist which would make keeping Damon/Matsui more sensible.
I see no reason to mess with Holliday and Bay. Any extra $$$ should be spent on Lackey or another starter worth bringing in…. especially if Pettite retires.
Patrick — true, you didn’t say a drop off was “sure to happen”. You wrote regarding repeating ’09 performances that “there’s no way that will happen again”.
I fail to see the difference.
BJK,
Got it – ——————————Thanks. Would hate to see Joba go back to the pen. Also would hate the posts supporting that move.
———————————————————
. . “Just to clarify, I meant that I don’t think Joba would require 2-3 years of grooming to be Mo’s heir to the closer throne.
I’m not saying he belongs in the pen. I’m saying if the Yankees were to decide someday that Joba is a future closer, I would hope he would not require 2-3 years of “grooming”. “
Patrick
November 11th, 2009 at 9:40 am
“It will cost more for Hawpe than it would to keep Matsui.”
Hawpe is also 30 yrs old and has 2 knees.
————————————————————
Who do you plan on giving up for a one year rental? One that you don’t even know if he can deal with NYY, since he’s only played for the Rockies? He’s a career .225 hitter in NY and about a .250 hitter against AL pitching.
There’s a multitude of ways to win games but in reality nobody should expect the Yankees to have as many come-from-behind or walkoff wins as they experienced in 2009.
Building up comfortable leads by the 6th and 7th inning is a preferable way.
86w,
It is very unlikely that Damon, Matsui, Posada and Jeter all out-perform their projections in 2010. Very, very unlikely
GB7,
I’m not going to pull some trade out of my ass. I have no idea what Hawpe is worth. He’d be a very good DH though. He has power, is a lefty which would translate well to yankee stadium and he has good OBP skills.
Pettitte collected on all but about $750,000 of his incentives., making just under 10 mil.
Patrick
November 11th, 2009 at 9:53 am
GB7,
I’m not going to pull some trade out of my ass. I have no idea what Hawpe is worth. He’d be a very good DH though. He has power, is a lefty which would translate well to yankee stadium and he has good OBP skills.
————————————————————
I don’t know….you pulled two names out of there.
~~~~GreenBeret7 November 11th, 2009 at 2:58 am
Rosy, for whatever the reason, the Mariners have always had two of the three (pitching, defense and offense) but, never all three at the same time. For a team with no titles, you boast an alumni of some of the best talent, from Alvin Davis to Mark Langston to Junior, to the Martinez’, Buhner, Rodriguez, Johnson to Suzuki and on, but, could never get them together. It seems right now they have a possible first baseman with a big bat in Lopez and they’re trying to unload him. Any reason?~~~~
Sorry for the delayed response, GB7 (’twas getting late even for me). Yep – here’s hoping the M’s can get it all together one of these days. Seems like they are headed in the right direction now, at least.
As for Jose…
I don’t know that the are trying to “unload” him – I would hope not – especially since Russell’s still negotiating (we need them both!). I do know that Jose’s defense has tried their patience at times. But, heaven knows, despite the personal tragedy he has suffered, he’s been working hard and continuing to improve …
http://compassrosy.blogspot.co.....rning.html
I’d like to add my Happy Veteran’s Day to you (and to all the Vets out there). Thank you for your service.
Erica – I’m advising you to not look at the backcover of the Post today. ( althought its a good picture….)
Happy Veterans’ Day to the vets on this board.
One heart-warming story recently was about a group of senior citizens who would meet airplanes with returning military men and women. They would applaud and welcome each one back home with encouraging words. The theory was that everyone returning did not have friends and family waiting for them. I do not remember where or when of this event but it was on a video and well worth watching
I thought it was a wonderful way to express our thanks to those who protect us.
I have also been a passenger on an airplane where all the passengers applauded several military persons joining flight.
Sherman (via Twitter) reported that Alan Nero, Wang’s agent, said that Wang was given the green light by Dr. James Andrews to start throwing by December 15 and that Wang may be able to pitch again by as early as the middle of April. In a follow-up tweet, Sherman noted that Yankee doctors have yet to examine Wang themselves
I just wanted to express my gratitude to GreenBeret and all of the other Veterans out there. You all are heroes as you have made so many sacrifices to keep our nation safe. You should all be proud!
Thank you to all the veterans on the blog, your service has kept all of us safe.
bru
November 11th, 2009 at 10:17 am
Sherman (via Twitter) reported that Alan Nero, Wang’s agent, said that Wang was given the green light by Dr. James Andrews to start throwing by December 15 and that Wang may be able to pitch again by as early as the middle of April. In a follow-up tweet, Sherman noted that Yankee doctors have yet to examine Wang themselves
*********************
That’s great news for Wang. He’s had a rough couple of years. I’m still holding out hope they can work out some kind of deal with him.
This off season could be quiet. We have enough pitching to, at the very least, get us to the trading deadline. Cashman just has to sort out LF (which he could end any debate by offering JD arbitration) and DH. Then we sit back and see how the team is playing around the all star break and perhaps pick up what we need then. The real prizes are in next year’s free agent pool, so we could go into next year looking just like this year (which considering how it ended isn’t too bad).
NYY626
November 11th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Erica – I’m advising you to not look at the backcover of the Post today. ( althought its a good picture….)
*************
Sigh… well, now I have to look
With latest reports here on Wang, it appears he will be ready to go by spring training. This just adds to the dilemna of who will be on the rotation and who will be in the BP. How long will it take Wang to re-hab is “iffy”.
If Wang will be back and Andy returns there is only the #5 slot open. What happens with Joba and Phil who used to be the prospects for head of the rotation?
And I am still savoring the WS win. Maybe we are all premature on our predictions.
CompassRosy
November 11th, 2009 at 10:10 am
As for Jose…
I don’t know that the are trying to “unload” him – I would hope not – especially since Russell’s still negotiating (we need them both!). I do know that Jose’s defense has tried their patience at times. But, heaven knows, despite the personal tragedy he has suffered, he’s been working hard and continuing to improve …
————————————————————
I was just curious about Lopez. I know that they were disappointed in his defense at 2nd base, but, keep reading about him going someplace else. I saw 8-9 games of his playing first base and he looked pretty good. Certainly better than Branyon. Lopez has a really good bat. Other than his average, he reminds me somewhat of Cano’s at bats, especially the developing power.
Erica-my Sesame Street 40 Years of Sunny Days DVD came yesterday. It’s amazing-I highly recommend it. They’ve got highlights from every season-I must have watched Rubber Duckie at least 3 times! I haven’t gotten to the special features yet, but there’s a lot of behind the scenes footage. I had to force myself to turn it off last night and go to bed. I’ve had “These are the People in Your Neighboorhood” in my head all morning.
Hughes to the rotation.
Joba to the Pen. Enuff already.
Thats the make up of these 2 guys. Though if Hughes fails, he goes back to the pen too. Go with the guys strengths.
Erica – always OPPC
November 11th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Scott Boras
____________________________________________________________
Boras is REALLY pissing me off this week. Also, the article was terrible.
But, on the bright side, it was a good picture right?
Christina: Pictures from the Yankees Parade
November 11th, 2009 at 10:17 am
I just wanted to express my gratitude to GreenBeret and all of the other Veterans out there. You all are heroes as you have made so many sacrifices to keep our nation safe. You should all be proud!
————————————————————
Thank you for the kind thoughts Christina. I’m sure that all that read these appreciate the thoughts as much as I do. The folks in Iraq/Afghanistan theatre have occassion to read their favorite sports sites and they do appreciate it. They also get a giggle and snicker at some of the silliness that’s spouted. Good for morale.
Erin
November 11th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Erica-my Sesame Street 40 Years of Sunny Days DVD came yesterday. It’s amazing-I highly recommend it. They’ve got highlights from every season-I must have watched Rubber Duckie at least 3 times! I haven’t gotten to the special features yet, but there’s a lot of behind the scenes footage. I had to force myself to turn it off last night and go to bed. I’ve had “These are the People in Your Neighboorhood” in my head all morning.
******
Sounds like I need to get the DVD…..
I have Rubber Duckie on my iPod. LOL. I haven’t heard the “people in Your neighborhood” in years. When I was little I had a book that played the song when you opened it. I loved that thing
I personally don’t care what the Yankees payroll is. It doesn’t affect my enjoyment of them winning one little but that their payroll is the highest. the reason I feel this way is because I know that other owners could do the same thing but choose not to. The yankees play within the rules and just choose to reinvest their money into the team rather than putting it in their pockets. The Yankees success is from years of doing that they have the most money becausethey have always reinvested in themselves. its a perfect example of capitalism. other teams and owners need to stop whining and spend money on their team instead of that fifth vacation home..
NYY626
November 11th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Erica – always OPPC
November 11th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Scott Boras
____________________________________________________________
Boras is REALLY pissing me off this week. Also, the article was terrible.
But, on the bright side, it was a good picture right?
**********
Yes, good pitcure. I am starting to get a bad feeling about Johnny coming back.
“If Wang will be back and Andy returns there is only the #5 slot open. What happens with Joba and Phil who used to be the prospects for head of the rotation?”
If they bring Wang back, he has to earn his way back into the rotation.
Noreaster
November 11th, 2009 at 10:18 am
Thank you to all the veterans on the blog, your service has kept all of us safe.
————————————————————
Thanks Nor. It’s much appreciated by everyone. I can’t speak for why people chose to do this job, but, for me, I was just too lazy to get a real job.
You ppl are so foolish!!! We just won our 27th title & you alread cry for next season, cashmen is the GM & not 1 of us so why don’t you have faith in him he knows exactly what he’s doing just follow his moves & if it doesn’t work next year he’ll do better job the year after( kind og last year) you have to relize that cano melky houghs jaba bruney robertson coke aceves cerveli are all 25 or younger they have a big future ahead they already have more experiense in the big leagues, also cc aj tex swish marte gaudin already have a taste (and a ring)of yankee baseball so the pressure is off so they can perform much better, also u have to to consider that we still have in the minors great tallent including a healthy kenedy
And if someone thinks that jeter can’t repeat he’s just stupid cuz jeter is not a HR hitter he’s a solid contact hitter & it doesn’t matter if he gets older, the only concern would be if alex can stay healthy but he proved us that he can come back so stop worrying & enjoy our team now cuz if you won’t enjoy it now when will you?? You will cry every single year for more super stars?? Most super stars have egos (remember the old alex,musina) now we have a team with no egos but great talent
I take the Wang news as good news .. NOT exciting news.
Yes. Wang was a back to back 19 game winner but he also threw some of the worse baseball i have ever seen.
We cant go into next season with 3 question marks, Joba , Hughes and Wang. Plus we don’t know how Pettite will pitch next season.
I hope Cashman explores all trades. if nothing pans out. Go Sign Lackey.
Ken,
You have the placing of Joba and Phil backwards.
———————————————————–
Noreaster,
November 11th, 2009 at 10:23 am
. . ” This off season could be quiet. We have enough pitching to, at the very least, get us to the trading deadline. Cashman just has to sort out LF (which he could end any debate by offering JD arbitration) and DH. Then we sit back and see how the team is playing around the all star break and perhaps pick up what we need then. The real prizes are in next year’s free agent pool, so we could go into next year looking just like this year (which considering how it ended isn’t too bad).”
————————————————————
Very to the point post. We must remember that The Yankees won the WS with this team. I hope I am wrong but I have a feeling that Johnny (due to boras) will not return. We may need a LF.
I wonder if the Yankees will work out a deal with Wang. Seems like it would be a good ‘bet’ to place. If (and when) Andy comes back it could make our pitching, both starting and bullpen, killer. With all the issues the Sox are facing (Ortiz, Lowell, Bay), plus with minus fielding catchers again, it could be another fun year!
For some reason or another, the only thing I remember about Sesame Street is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDJe4gmxlbI
JJCFF, You are correct in that you never know what Boras will do. He has turned down arbitration before when it was totally nuts to do so. We’ll have to see, but I think with the Bobby signing with LAA, that contract has boxed JD into a corner. He is not going to get much more than 2 years at 10, so maybe arbitration is his best bet.
nice clip, Tom- Can’t say I recall that one myself. I don’t have much of a memory of Sesame Street. Though I have used the movie “Big Bird Goes to China” for a Unit I taught to my 3rd graders about China. They actually really enjoyed the movie and learned how to say a few words in Mandarin.
Tom-
Please summarize the clip… no youtube at work
Tom in N.J.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:43 am
For some reason or another, the only thing I remember about Sesame Street is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDJe4gmxlbI
*******************
LOL…totally remember that.
Interesting read on some random post season thoughts:
http://www.wfan.com/pages/5650.....ntRating=1
GB7 and All the Veterans thanks for “being on that wall”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hGvQtumNAY
Erica:
I’m an aardvark, and I’m proud!
I’m an aardvark, and I’m happy!
I’m an aardvark
If I try to be specific
And a little scientific
I am feeling quite terrific!
My sister and I would sing this song when we were kids.
Tom in N.J.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Erica:
I’m an aardvark, and I’m proud!
I’m an aardvark, and I’m happy!
I’m an aardvark
If I try to be specific
And a little scientific
I am feeling quite terrific!
My sister and I would sing this song when we were kids.
*******
Very cute.
One of my favorites was Ernie & Bert’s “La La La” Song, which was a tribute to the Letter L. With Bert singing the classic line “La La La Linoleum”
As Erica likes to remind us, Boras works for Damon. Maddux, among others, has told Boras where he wanted to play and saw to it he got it done. Damon has that power too if he chooses to exercise it.
Clearly, they cannot let Matsui and Damon go without significantly adding offense. The question is what is more risky 2-3 years of Damon or six years of Holliday. Not an easy call considering the age difference.
I join in the others who hope payroll doesn’t have to be lowered. Sjhouldn’t the payrolls of all series winners necessarily go up since the players performed well and that means raises?
Remember the Mad Painter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
The old adage of you can’t ever have enough pitching applies. The possibility exists that a surprise could come out of AAA but don’t count on it. One of either Hughes or Chamberlain could solidify the starting rotation but will it be both ? There’s always the unknowns but Brian Cashman is smart enough not to use the Boston approach of low risk / high reward pitchers.
He’ll explore the best option be it Lackey or whoever it takes.
Uncle Ellsworth (much ado about nothing)
November 11th, 2009 at 10:52 am
GB7 and All the Veterans thanks for “being on that wall”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hGvQtumNAY
————————————————————
Thanks for the words and thoughts, Ellie. It’s much appreciated.
I cannot face another year with Swisher in right field. He is a strike-out artist who is really living off of one month — last April. That a man who was batting .118 was shocked at being benched shows what a poor team player he really is. He was run out of Chicago for being a poor team mate. And don’t get me started on his signal to the heavens for hitting a slow roller to left field!!
this was adorable
Its a nice theme and I have used it for my website