Day 3 underway
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 11, 2009 
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As expected, it’s been a slow few days here at the General Managers Meetings. Brian Cashman hasn’t said much about his plans for next year, but did reveal yesterday that he expects both Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain to go into spring training as starters.
Most everyone is flying out of Chicago this afternoon or this evening — including myself — so there are only a few more hours to try to track down some news and notes. I’m on my way back to the lobby and will continue to check in throughout the day.
This sounds like a rather unproductive baseball week
I wonder if ESPN’s Bill Simmons will have the decency to stop calling Jabbar “the big ninny” for Simmons’ perception that Jabbar cried for foul calls all the time. (as if Simmons has not seen Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett, the biggest whiners in the history of the NBA).
Tom in N.J.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Erica:
I’m an aardvark, and I’m proud!
I’m an aardvark, and I’m happy!
I’m an aardvark
If I try to be specific
And a little scientific
I am feeling quite terrific!
My sister and I would sing this song when we were kids.
*******
Very cute.
One of my favorites was Ernie & Bert’s “La La La” Song, which was a tribute to the Letter L. With Bert singing the classic line “La La La Linoleum”
not for nothing CR9 but Lebron James is by far the biggest whiner I’ve ever seen in the NBA.
Simmons is a worse homer than just about any fan on the planet. He once claimed that Len Bias was the only player who could have guarded Michael Jordan and the Celtics missed out on another dynasty by losing him.
Simmons also said that Yankee fans cry unnecessarily over losing Thurman Munson b/c he wasn’t that great a player while Red Sox fans had more reason to be upset when Tony Conigliaro had his career ended by getting hit in the eye with a baseball.
Simmons is classless person whom ESPN should have canned a long time ago.
Uncle Ellsworth (much ado about nothing)
November 11th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Remember the Mad Painter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related
Erica – always OPPC
November 11th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Very cute.
One of my favorites was Ernie & Bert’s “La La La” Song, which was a tribute to the Letter L. With Bert singing the classic line “La La La Linoleum”
*******************
Love the “La La La” song! I can’t wait to get into more Bert and Ernie moments-last night I watched Rubber Duckie, Bert’s “Doin’ the Pigeon” song and dance, and the classic “I can’t hear you, I’ve got a banana in my ear”. Good stuff.
I wonder how much money the dying newspaper industry wasted on three days of non coverage of non news at the non event in Chicago?
Karl Malone never fouled anyone by the way
11/11 11:11
Man, those meetings were a bust for us.
WoW, really is a quiet baseball week, more OT than On.
‘Acting’ in basketball always seemed more productive with the refs than in any other sport. Flopping being the most obvious but whining always worked if you had star power and that puts Jordan, Jabbar, James, etc right at the top. Bird didn’t whine, he yelled at the refs.
And a very happy La La La Linoleum [ Linoleum is actually making a comeback as high end flooring, maybe my ties will come back in style too ] to you and Bert and Big Bird too. 40th Birthday this week.
Jacob Ruppert
Simmons was right about Bias. He would have extended Bird’s career and kept him healthier. Watch the 30 for 30 doc on Len Bias. It’s true about how great he was.
If Wang is healthy, they need to bring him back. I wonder if he’d be open to a minor league deal (worth millions of course) with a major league option @ a raise for next year. He’d rehab under the yankees and if he shows promise he’d basically get his role back as our #2.
SI_JonHeyman great news: victor zambrano’s mother elizabeth recovered unharmed after kidnapping, agent says. 15 minutes ago from mobile web
Good news for a former Scranton-Wilkes Barre great.
Erin
November 11th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Erica – always OPPC
November 11th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Very cute.
One of my favorites was Ernie & Bert’s “La La La” Song, which was a tribute to the Letter L. With Bert singing the classic line “La La La Linoleum”
*******************
Love the “La La La” song! I can’t wait to get into more Bert and Ernie moments-last night I watched Rubber Duckie, Bert’s “Doin’ the Pigeon” song and dance, and the classic “I can’t hear you, I’ve got a banana in my ear”. Good stuff.
**********
I used to LOVE “I Dance Myself to Sleep” when the Boogie Woogie sheep carried Bert’s bed out the door
Simmons was at least right about the Len Bias Dynasty. The Celts traded all their picks for him to be the cornerstone of the next dynasty and had nuthin left to rebuild with. Celts went into the toilet for a long time.
Not only did the Celtics lose Bias but also Reggie Lewis. Which would have been two strong building blocks that took years to recover from.
Erica – always OPPC
November 11th, 2009 at 11:15 am
I used to LOVE “I Dance Myself to Sleep” when the Boogie Woogie sheep carried Bert’s bed out the door
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Erica, that’s one of my favorites! I can’t wait until I find “Put down the Duckie if you want to play the saxophone”
To the Vets here, thank you for your your sacrifice for our saftey. Listening to my father in law and others that served it is often a lifetime of sacrifice. So again I say Thank You.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
Ladybug picnic
Well, I just ordered the Sesame Street DVD.
Uncle Ellsworth (much ado about nothing)
November 11th, 2009 at 11:29 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related
Ladybug picnic
**************
I love the Ladybug picnic!!
Doreen
November 11th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Well, I just ordered the Sesame Street DVD.
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Doreen-you won’t be sorry!!
“If Wang is healthy, they need to bring him back.”
jerkface-
there are issues with the yankees and wang that go way past the latest injury.
things weren’t great even when he was healthy.
there was a lot of anger at the yankees from arbitration battles.
cashman’s behind the scenes stat heads were convinced he couldn’t keep winning with such a low strike out rate so cashman had his coaches try to change wang by having him use more pitches.
wang was found money. the yankees as an overall staff really didn’t develop him. cashman finally burn wang last year with his bunging of his rehab from the foot injury.
how could wang have not developed a throwing injury when he was so off on his release point all spring and summer from lower body weakness?
but wang doesn’t appear ticked off judging by his world series celebration so maybe he’s forgotten how ticked off he used to be.
of course if cashman plays hardball with him again, he may remember.
personally, i think the yankees have no clue what to do with the kind of pitcher wang is and should cut the ties and let each side move forward.
Hey all. I haven’t been keeping up and have already admitted that hot stove is not my thing, especially with a team that has just won it all. I was absolutely content to see the same team fielded.
HOWEVER – as circumstances change, so do my thoughts change. I am now ready to not care where Johnny Damon ends up. While I understand that he has more leverage just coming off a world series win, in my mind that should have perhaps bought him two years rather than one. If Beelzebub Boras is going to do his usual, then Johnny is one with him. If Johnny wanted to stay with the Yanks for another two years he could tell Boras to back off. Do I blame Johnny for trying to get whatever he can? I guess not. Do I now hope it’s far away from the Yankees. Yes I do.
Dats all folks! Check in with ya from time to time.
XOX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....&NR=1
10 chocolate layer cakes!
Thanks MaineYankee for reminding me what day it is [ we get up a little later here in CA and I'm still waking up ]. I’m not a Vet but have always had a huge appreciation for them and what they gave. Thanks to all.
I have said this before, but Damon is Boras’ boss, it doesn’t go the other way around. If Damon allows Scott to lead him around by the nose, that’s his issue. All I know is that the Yankees can not (and, I think, will not) be playing games with Damon or Matsui. They won’t be waiting forever to try and make something happen with these guys as life goes on and the organization has to think about their future.
Jacob Ruppert
November 11th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Simmons is a worse homer than just about any fan on the planet. He once claimed that Len Bias was the only player who could have guarded Michael Jordan and the Celtics missed out on another dynasty by losing him.
Simmons also said that Yankee fans cry unnecessarily over losing Thurman Munson b/c he wasn’t that great a player while Red Sox fans had more reason to be upset when Tony Conigliaro had his career ended by getting hit in the eye with a baseball.
————————————————————
Did Simmons happen to mention that the Red Sox thought so much of Tony Conigliaro that they traded him to the angels 2 and a half years later because they though he was washed up because he was losing his sight in one eye and wanted to get something for him before anybody found out?
Vincent, MaineYankee and BillyJoeBob
I can understand Simmons’ devastation at losing a great talent like Bias but there was no way to know how good he was going to be. Can’t miss draft picks turn into busts all the time especially when there are drugs involved. Look at what happen to the Knicks and Michael Ray Richardson. Either way, to assume that Bias was going to be the equal of the greatest basketball player of all time, Michael Jordan, is the height of Bostonian arrogance.
Hey, Trish
Could you send me your email address again? My address is the same as before, provider is mchsi.com
Bob
Great news about Zambrano’s mother – what is the problem in Venezuela? This happens way too often…..
Excerpts from interview with Johnny and Andy last night
http://bombersbeat.mlblogs.com.....ettit.html
GreenBeret7
Simmons said that Conigliaro had a brighter future and was a better player than Munson and Red Sox fans didn’t whine about that as much as Yankees fans did over the loss of Munson. I guess he didn’t understand that Munson lost his life, not his career. This coming from a guy who bemoans the loss of Bias not because Bias’s life ended but because it ended the Celtics dynasty. What a joke.
Jacob Ruppert
November 11th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Vincent, MaineYankee and BillyJoeBob
I can understand Simmons’ devastation at losing a great talent like Bias but there was no way to know how good he was going to be. Can’t miss draft picks turn into busts all the time especially when there are drugs involved. Look at what happen to the Knicks and Michael Ray Richardson. Either way, to assume that Bias was going to be the equal of the greatest basketball player of all time, Michael Jordan, is the height of Bostonian arrogance.
———————————————-
Typical bitter Knicks fan.
“cashman’s behind the scenes stat heads were convinced he couldn’t keep winning with such a low strike out rate so cashman had his coaches try to change wang by having him use more pitches.”
Randy, So Cashman gave speific instructions to his coaches to do this? He told Guidry and Eiland this? Wow…
Knicks still play basketball?
This is just MLB Traderumors retweeting, so take it for what it’s worth. The sources in the post don’t make anything seem certain:
mlbtraderumors RT @npbtracker Hideki Matsui Interest From Angels, Red Sox: http://bit.ly/1hIa3b
3 minutes ago from web
Knicks who are they?
I saw an interesting post I believe it was yesterday.
The Yankees have more wins in November than the Knicks Nets Jets and Giants combined!
Here’s a doozy quote from Boras in the NY Times although it sounds like something from the mouth of Jimmy the Greek.
Speaking about Damon’s age:
“Chronological age does not have anything to do with a player of his genetics”
???
MaineYankee
LOL. If I were a bitter Knicks fan, I would complain about how Jordan wouldn’t be the greatest player of all time if the refs didn’t favor him in every playoff series he faced off against the Knicks.
Who knows, maybe the refs would have given the same Bias towards Len (see what I did there) when he played the Knicks. That is probably what Simmons was counting on.
If Damon really wants a 3 or 4 year deal he’s gone. I personally think that if he demands a 2 year deal he’s gone…but that’s debatable.
I asked the question last night about bringing in Brad Hawpe (and Clint Barmes), moving Swisher to LF and putting Hawpe in RF.
Yes he might have inflated numbers thanks to Coors – but as a left handed hitter in Yankee Stadium I think he’ll do just fine.
How about moving one of those infielders that are up for Rule 5, (Corona for example) CM Wang – who the Yankees are likely not going to tender a contract to, Melky, and a reliever (Melancon? Coke?) for Hawpe and Barmes.
The Rox are said to want to move Hawpe for contract reasons.
Bronx Jeers
November 11th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Here’s a doozy quote from Boras in the NY Times although it sounds like something from the mouth of Jimmy the Greek.
Speaking about Damon’s age:
“Chronological age does not have anything to do with a player of his genetics”
???
**********************
LOL. I’m not even going to pretend I know what that means.
How good would Brien Taylor have been?
He’d be about Andy Pettitte’s age now. If he didn’t get hurt…
@ Pittsburgh Yankee Fan From previous post
ADam
Third place? Really? Care to add a bit of detail to that speculation?
=============================
Care to read my actual post… and not someones reply to my post…
Listen: Johnny Damon has come unstuck in time
Damon and Matsui = 1 yr deals ONLY…bring Jackson up a few times to get his feet wet and then full time in 2011!!
Chad…Mizzou took it on the chin again!!!!!
L8R
Simmons has always been a dispicable POS. Don’t forget….Boston has always spawned his type of sports writers.
Dave Egan was a drunken jerk that couldn’t hold a job doing anything else. He had a law degree and was a professor at an Ivy League school but stayed drunk. He made it his personal goal to run Ted Williams out of town.
He once voted for and devoted columns to a taxi cab driver to be selected Boston’s Man Of The Year for running down and almost killing Casey Stengel when he managed the Boston Braves. That accident left Stengel with a badly broken leg that was almost amputated because it was so bad. That was the reason it looked like Stengel walked bow-legged. It was that badly deformed.
Pat’s daily list of Things To Do:
- Get up, check
- Eat Breakfast, check
- Do some work, check
…
- Read randy’s daily rant about Chien-ming Wang and Brian Cashman …. check
The GM meetings are nothing special but many thanks to Chad for hanging in with attempts at gathering information.
Less than a month before the winter meetings in Indianapolis so we can digest what the GM’s may have discussed in closed quarters that they didn’t care to reveal to the media.
A player of his genetics? Um.. ok?
Mariners just signed Ken Griffey to a one year deal. Matsui not going there. He will be back for one year
GreenBeret7
November 11th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Simmons has always been a dispicable POS. Don’t forget….Boston has always spawned his type of sports writers.
Dave Egan was a drunken jerk that couldn’t hold a job doing anything else. He had a law degree and was a professor at an Ivy League school but stayed drunk. He made it his personal goal to run Ted Williams out of town.
He once voted for and devoted columns to a taxi cab driver to be selected Boston’s Man Of The Year for running down and almost killing Casey Stengel when he managed the Boston Braves. That accident left Stengel with a badly broken leg that was almost amputated because it was so bad. That was the reason it looked like Stengel walked bow-legged. It was that badly deformed.
—————————————————
This explains why you don’t like “Jimmy Olsen”
Anyone catch this photo?
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/.....ms_meeting
I was sad when Pete left, but like the blog SO much better now.
tom in nj-
Brien Taylor Ha!
For some reason I read about him about two months ago. Get this he has something like 5 or 6 kids. He works for his families mason company. Here comes the best part he was making less than $1000 a month and still lives at his parents house. Its ashame even if he didnt make it in the bigs he still got probably over a million in a signing bonus. You think he would have done something wise with that money!
NY-
Good call with Griffey. Eliminate the Mariners for Hideki !
CM Wang is more of an important piece to the puzzle than any outfielder. The Yankees can afford to keep and rehab the guy. His potential outweighs the risk because we’ve already seen 2 solid seasons of it. Dealing the guy would be insanity.
Simmons is a tool. Conigliaro and Bias happened more than 20 years ago… enough already.
“How good would Brien Taylor have been?”
tom in nj-
i was right behind home plate watching him pitch one night in port charlotte against a ranger farm team.
he struck out 13 in 6 innings and was basically a man among boys. the catcher even had trouble catching him and kept getting knocked off balance with strikes that weren’t mixups. he threw easily and hard and had great command.
i think there was maybe 1-2 hits and no walks.
my father and i thought we were seeing the next great yankee.
Happy Veterans Day and thanks to both veterans and currently serving members of the armed forces.
I don’t see much happening until the free agents are settled. Hopefully Andy, Johnny and Matsui are back next year.
signing Griffey just shows that the Mariners are not serious about winning next season.
Scott Boras can ask for the moon and reporters would report it.
What GM in their right mind would give Damon a 4 year deal?
Unlike some (most?) NY fans, I like Simmons a lot.As a Boston guy, he’s obviously going to have a Celtics/Red Sox/Patriots bias. I don’t take anything he says/writes too seriously, although he has lost his edge since the Boston/New England has had so much success over the last 10 years. The reason he was interesting was because writing weekly columns from the POV of a tortured sports fan was unique. His piece on the Game 6 of the 1986 World Series was excellent.
But one of the things he’s way off on is that Len Bias would have been Jordan’s equal. Athletically and skill-wise he may have been comparable, but anyone who follows basketball knows that what separated Jordan was his ruthless competitiveness. There have been tons of ultra-athletic stars. There’s only been one Michael Jordan.
As a lifelong Laker hater, I agree Kareem was a ninny. That said, I hope The Big Fella gets well soon.
86w183
November 11th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Simmons is a tool. Conigliaro and Bias happened more than 20 years ago… enough already.
I do not agree. If you or Bill wants to remember the past and remember the life of Len Bias or a Yankee fan wants to remember or honor Munson, that is positive.
For a slimeball like Simmons to pass off the death of Munson as if all he was, was an athlete and not a human being, and for him to be upset about Bias only because he “cost them a dynasty” is horrific, despicable, and inhumane. And I’ve read those articles about how he whines that the Celts could have a handful more championships. Nothing about the struggles of Bias maybe helping children in the future learn from his mistakes or how his death affected his family.
The problem in Venezuela is the same problem everywhere.
People are poor and sometimes resort to crime to get money. I read in Zambrano’s case it was a robbery that evolved into a kidnapping when nothing of value was found.
I can’t recall ever hearing about a MLB players family being kidnapped although I’m sure the Latin American players are extremely vigilant when protecting their families.
This was a big problem for the NHL players of Eastern Europe a while back. Especially the Russian players who were being extorted by the Russian mafia.
Does anyone else think the Yankees should try and trade for Edwin Jackson? I heard the tigers are trying to move him.
Now that the Mariners are out for Matsui, I’m not sure where he goes next. No chance he goes to Boston — they already have one DH-only player. And if the Angels decide to have a player who can’t play the field, they will jus keep Vlad. I really think Hideki plays in Japan next year.
I know Boras tries to get as much as he can for his clients, but does he think the world is blind? The only reason Damon was able to have as good a year as he had was because Girardi was able to get him rest when appropriate and when needed.
On television, Johnny Damon announced that his calves give him trouble in cold weather.
Sure, he looks good, but he’s been battling all kinds of fatigue issues and minor aches and pains for the better part of at least 2 seasons now.
And after typing all that, I have to wonder why many of us still want him back! We must be nuts!
But, seriously, how anyone can thing he’s got another 4 years of maximum production, I don’t know. It seems to me 2 years would be more than fair, but year to year for a player like him makes more sense for an organization.
“he struck out 13 in 6 innings and was basically a man among boys. the catcher even had trouble catching him and kept getting knocked off balance with strikes that weren’t mixups. he threw easily and hard and had great command.”
Sounds like Posada was catching him that night….
In all seriousness I’ve read that there are still scouts who claim that he was the best amature pitcher that they’ve ever seen.
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This explains why you don’t like “Jimmy Olsen”
————————————————————
LMAO. You bums don’t forget anything, do you?
“So Cashman gave speific instructions to his coaches to do this? He told Guidry and Eiland this? Wow…”
tom in nj-
it’s pretty common knowledge that the yankees wanted wang to throw a higher percentage of other pitches.
i don’t think this blog is ready to actually know behind the scenes stuff about wang because it goes against the image most here have of a very clever yankee management.
one thing that peter a. knew about was the behind the scenes stuff with wang and yankee management. he didn’t write everything he knew, but he knew wang wasn’t happy with the yankees.
my position is really simple.
just move on.
no hard feelings.
time for a fresh start for everyone.
Matsui back on 1 yr deal. Can’t lose 2 power lefty bats
“In all seriousness I’ve read that there are still scouts who claim that he was the best amature pitcher that they’ve ever seen.”
he looked like a tall left handed bob gibson.
he was the best i’d seen in the minors.
Randy I. :
“We Can’t Handle The Truth”
GreenBeret7
November 11th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
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This explains why you don’t like “Jimmy Olsen”
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LMAO. You bums don’t forget anything, do you?
———————————————-
You aren’t the only one with steel trap for a memory.
MR.OCTOBER
November 11th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
tom in nj-
Brien Taylor Ha!
For some reason I read about him about two months ago. Get this he has something like 5 or 6 kids. He works for his families mason company. Here comes the best part he was making less than $1000 a month and still lives at his parents house. Its ashame even if he didnt make it in the bigs he still got probably over a million in a signing bonus. You think he would have done something wise with that money!
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Get this. It’s his house and his family moved in. Yes, he has 6 kids and he raised and supports them. He’s a brick mason, works hard and causes no problems. His family bled him dry. He still drives the car he bought with his bonus. By the way, the $1 mil bonus was spread out and after agent fees and lawyers he had less than half of that.
randy
“time for a fresh start for everyone.”
So does this indicate you are going to give Cashman a break now?
“Here’s a doozy quote from Boras in the NY Times although it sounds like something from the mouth of Jimmy the Greek.”
The most enjoyable part of Boras’s nonesense with Damon right now is how he is completely recycling all of the nonsense he was spewing about Damon 4 years ago when Boras was trying to get a 7 year deal for Damon.
The rhetoric is exactly the same. Same stuff about Damon as the bionic man who defies the fabric of time, etc., etc.
Last time Boras fell three years short of his goal with Damon’s contract.
He wants a 4 year deal for Johnny now? He might fall 3 years short again, unless Johnny is going to be happy finishing out his career with the Giants or the Nats.
The yankees are done doing business out of desperation or short sighted impatience.
And one of the biggest areas that’s had an impact on is their dealings with Boras.
Since Cashman took control in 2005 they’ve signed Boras clients but done so on their terms – not on Boras’s. They’ve paid the fair market price for those players but haven’t fallen into Boras’s game of making teams bid against themselves.
The yankees have realized that they are the dominant force in baseball and they are the ones that define the market.
Wang is a huge risk for next year. He is an injury risk and I now consider him a performance risk. An incentivized contract is really the only way to go.
How can the Sox sign Matsui when they have Ortiz? The Angels, if they don’t sign Vlad, is a possibility, but I very much doubt they would give him more than a year when we are talking about a guy who had to have his knee repeatedly drained.
Patrick
November 11th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Pat’s daily list of Things To Do:
- Get up, check
- Eat Breakfast, check
- Do some work, check
…
- Read randy’s daily rant about Chien-ming Wang and Brian Cashman …. check
**************************************************
that is some seriously funny(and absolutely true) sh*#!
next is CashmansGottaGo usual rant about how Cash should be fired for not trading Montero/Hughes/AJax to Seattle for Washburn at the deadline
Randy,
That’s always been somthing that has been implied by the (sabermetric-centric) media-Wang not being able to sustain his level of play because he wasn’t a swing and miss guy. Hence the ‘Wang is not an Ace’ talk. So it doesn’t necessarily surprise me that Cashman would have his coaches try to ‘change’ Wang. Was it the ‘right’ thing to do? No. But, what’s done is done and it may be best for Wang to move on.
Just playing devils advocate here, but pitchers who throw the ‘hard’ sinker like Wang does do seem to develop shoulder injuries-Brandon Webb, Kevin Brown, heck even Mel Stottlemyre all have had shoulder injuries.
Tom in N.J.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
“he struck out 13 in 6 innings and was basically a man among boys. the catcher even had trouble catching him and kept getting knocked off balance with strikes that weren’t mixups. he threw easily and hard and had great command.”
Sounds like Posada was catching him that night….
In all seriousness I’ve read that there are still scouts who claim that he was the best amature pitcher that they’ve ever seen.
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He was the best athlete to come out of this area (Savannah/Beaufort) since Ken Harrelson and Sterling and Shannon Sharpe. They still write articles about him every year or so. Sadly, it was his brother that caused the fight and Brien Taylor was trying to keep his brother from shooting a guy.
Matsui
Vlad
Griff
Ortiz
who would you want?
and no Mike F he’ can’t be replaced by Hinske
GB-
Regardless he still got a 1.5 million dollar signing bonus in 1991 and today makes less than $1000 a month. Its just a sad story.
MaineYankee
November 11th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
GreenBeret7
November 11th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
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This explains why you don’t like “Jimmy Olsen”
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LMAO. You bums don’t forget anything, do you?
———————————————-
You aren’t the only one with steel trap for a memory.
————————————————————
Your mind may be a steel trap, but it’s rusty and closed up tight.
randy l -
Perhaps Wang has moved on from that anger. He was on the bench during the entire playoff run and was a part of the parade/celebration.
I just think if he was that unhappy, he could have made himself scarce.
Do you entertain any thoughts that on the days Wang’s sinker wasn’t working, his other pitches were not all that effective and so he was very hittable, and perhaps the Yankees wanted him to develop his secondary pitches to enable him to have something to go to when his sinker wasn’t working?
He’s a phenomenal ground ball pitcher – one of the best. I thought it was fantastic the way fans would count his DPs instead of or in addition to his Ks. But he had trouble on turf and he had trouble with the Red Sox.
Now, they may indeed have “messed him up” by trying to get him to round out his arsenal. But I cant believe that was their intent. And perhaps they didn’t understand how fragile his delivery was. And I know you talked about it not being his natural arm slot, or am I misremembering that from earlier this year?
I know you have a relationship with the guy who taught Wang the sinker, and you know some things that aren’t common knowledge. But why would an organization intentionally destroy one of their best pitchers? They were counting on Wang as the #2 last season. What does that tell you?
Perhaps both parties can start over, rather than part ways. Perhaps the Yankees at this point have a better understanding of what made Wang Wang. I believe they do realize his value, if he is healthy and if he can return to form, and there’s no way they want him pitching effectively for a competitor.
Wang’s not a risk, he’s a known zero for next season – he’s not pitching until August at the earliest. I’m not buying these new reports that he’s going to be back by mid-april. If he comes back that soon he’s going to be at 20% at best.
Keep in mind that the Yankees saw this coming, which explains why they never attempted to sign him to a long term deal.
I fully expect Wang, Bruney, and Edwar to be off the 40 man roster.
I still remember watching some video clips of Brien Taylor after he was drafted.
He had remarkable arm speed. And for a left hander it was just off the charts. And it was arm speed that seemed to come out of nowhere because his delivery was fairly relaxed and easy.
When I saw Aroldis Chapman throw in the WBC I thought of Taylor. Taylor had better mechanics and was more refined but you just don’t see that kind of arm speed out of a lefty much… David Price doesn’t have it. Randy Johnson – as utterly dominant as he was didn’t really need dominant arm speed to generate tremendous velocity as whe was able to leverage his height and throw on that downwards plane.
Taylor was special.
I’ll never forgive Cashman for ruining his career… It’s not widely known but it was really Cashman who told Taylor to get into a fight defending his brother and ruin his shoulder in the process…
So will they be doing any work in the off season to be hopefully building their innings up so we don’t have to do this bull pen BS again. It was really ridiculous what they did with Joba at the end of the season and I’m starting to get sick of the kiddie gloves they’re putting on them.
MR.OCTOBER
November 11th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
GB-
Regardless he still got a 1.5 million dollar signing bonus in 1991 and today makes less than $1000 a month. Its just a sad story.
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He received $1 mil, and he bought into that business to make sure his brother had a job. A half a mil 20 years ago doesn’t last that long supporting parents, brothers and sisters.
Boras is just doing his job. He’s asking for 4 years for Damon, but what that really means is that he wants the 2nd year guaranteed. By most accounts the Yankees want to bring him back for 1 year only with maybe an option for a 2nd year. Negotiations always start with this way.
Boras plays the game well. Cashman plays the game well. It’s going to be interesting to watch.
GB7
“Your mind may be a steel trap, but it’s rusty and closed up tight.”
I guess you forgot I used that line on you already. You are more rusty than you know.
cb…. hilarious
how much minor league time do you think chapman would need?
CB
A sense of humor. Who knew.
CB -
??????
I also saw Brien pitch in the Florida State league. Saw him with about 100 fans in the stands and sat with scouts the whole team. He was 94-98 with his fastball and his curve ranged from 78-85. He was unhittable when ahead in the count.
Definitely the best I ever saw at that stage. What a waste of talent to destroy that arm in a bar fight.
Don’t worry about Boras folks…. he always oversells his clients and always (except with Alex in 2000) ends up getting less than he targeted
“That’s always been somthing that has been implied by the (sabermetric-centric) media-Wang not being able to sustain his level of play because he wasn’t a swing and miss guy. Hence the ‘Wang is not an Ace’ talk. So it doesn’t necessarily surprise me that Cashman would have his coaches try to ‘change’ Wang. Was it the ‘right’ thing to do? No. But, what’s done is done and it may be best for Wang to move on.”
Here’s what Cashman said about Wang and whether or not the yankees considered him deficient in any part of his game – from the start of 2008:
“He’s become the ace of our staff, there’s no doubt about it, and tonight he pitched as well as anybody could pitch,” Yankees General Manager Brian Cashman said. “He seems to be refining his repertoire on how to attack hitters, and that’s a great thing. Right now, he’s at the top of his game.”
So before Wang suffered that awful Lisfranc Injury the yankees GM and organization considered Wang an Ace.
Many sabermetricians may not have bought into the idea that Wang wasn’t an ace.
But conflating sabermatricians writing on the internet with the yankees front office is not accurate.
Actually he did get 1.55 mill:
Not only did Taylor, a then 19-year old fireballer drafted number one overall by the Yankees, receive the largest bonus by a draft pick in history at $1.55 million, he also became only the second amateur player to be drafted first overall and never reach the major leagues (the first was Steve Chilcott in 1966).
All im saying is with that kind of money a smart person can invest and make a fortune off it. Its a shame that he went from being close to a millionaire to making under $1000 a week.
Referring to how Wang pitched makes you wonder how Mel Stottlemyre pitched for 10 years and won 20 games three times for some of the worst Yankee teams on record while throwing the same pitch. Wang could strike batters out, except for the fact that it took to many pitches. He proved that before he was hurt when he struck out 10 Mets in 8 innings with a 95 MPH fastball and a slider.
I’m not sure where the Simmons/Bias stuff came in but as a Maryland grad Lenny was pretty freakin’ amazing. He utterly dominated college and could do the same exact things at 6’9 that Michael Jordan was doing at UNC. Don’t forget that both of those guys played in college at the same time and matched up numerous times. Bias wasn’t just athletic, he was an athletic freak and he had one of the most pure jump shots you could see out of a guy that big. Also, he had a work ethic and the similar competitive streak that Jordan had/has… Not sure where he would have wound up if the cocaine was an on-going thing but he definitely had the talent level to be compared with a guy like Jordan
Brien Taylor was the best minor league pitcher I’ve ever seen. He was amazing.
Its hard to say someone is a “can’t miss”. However, I will always believe he would have been to pitching what Arod is to position player. He was that good.
As far as Scott’s pitches, some of you take it WAY too literal and WAY too serious.
He’s an agent trying to position a client. That’s his job. It doesn’t mean that GM’s will fall at his feet.
Its pretty common knowledge throughout baseball that if Johnny wants a 2 year deal from the Yankees to stay, he will get it and stay. If he wants more, the Yankees will say goodbye.
They aren’t going to remake the entire team in the off-season. So, looking for massive turnover and one sided trades are a waste of time.
I’ve been in Nebraska, NY and Chicago in the last week and while Cashman is not holding daily briefings on his activities, its pretty clear what he wants to do.
If the terms can be worked out, he will bring back both Damon and Matsui. If he can’t, he’s prepared to move on.
I saw Joba in Nebraska over the weekend and he was told by Girardi and Eiland (as was Hughes) to prepare as a starter in the off-season.
Doesn’t mean that’s where he will end up but, that’s how he will approach his off-season program.
They will monitor the Lackey talks. They have interest in him but not for an AJ Burnett-sized contract. If the numbers are reasonable, they will make a play for him.
Unless Andy retires, he’s coming back on a one year deal.
They have no interest in Jason Bay and little, if any interest in Matt Holliday.
Cano isn’t getting traded unless King Felix is the target. Other than that, he’s back in 2010.
Austin Jackson isn’t even close to being ready so, scrap the, “he will start in CF in 2010″ talk.
He needs more time in AAA, even if it means a full season in AAA.
The Yankees are eyeing the 2010 FA class. That’s where you have some real interesting pieces.
Its why they won’t go nuts this off-season.
If deals make sense, they will do them. If not, they will pass.
Its an entirely different off-season than last year.
“how much minor league time do you think chapman would need?”
It’s hard to say given how little we’ve seen of him.
That said – he looked very raw to me. He didn’t seem to repeat his delivery very well.
If he was able to pitch in the major leagues after 2 seasons in the minors I would be very impressed.
MaineYankee
November 11th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
GB7
“Your mind may be a steel trap, but it’s rusty and closed up tight.”
I guess you forgot I used that line on you already. You are more rusty than you know.
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I guess I should run down to the store and get some 3-1 oil and lossen it up. Just so it isn’t a total waste of a trip, I’ll get some beer while I’m there.
sj,
how about chapman?
thanks cb
MR.OCTOBER
November 11th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Actually he did get 1.55 mill:
Not only did Taylor, a then 19-year old fireballer drafted number one overall by the Yankees, receive the largest bonus by a draft pick in history at $1.55 million, he also became only the second amateur player to be drafted first overall and never reach the major leagues (the first was Steve Chilcott in 1966).
All im saying is with that kind of money a smart person can invest and make a fortune off it. Its a shame that he went from being close to a millionaire to making under $1000 a week.
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Maybe you should go on for the next hour yammering about Josh Hamilton snorting a $4 mil bonus in less than two years.
SJ,
Good stuff, Thanks
What about Chapman? Any news?
“So does this indicate you are going to give Cashman a break now? ”
maine yankee-
in a way , i am.
sometimes people just don’t work well together.
cashman seems to understand pitching coaches who are pretty mainstream who understand pretty typical pitchers.
wang was atypical when at his best. he was the creation of someone who’s no longer there.
the present staff seems to do fine with coaching traditional pitchers with a fastball, slider, curve, cutter, change up mix .
wang was a unique pitcher who didn’t fall under normal coaching.
at this point why not have the yankees focus their energy on pitchers they understand instead of one they don’t?
and at this point why shouldn’t chien ming wang go somewhere that he’s understood and get back his sinker that made him into one of the best pitchers in baseball ?
there is one option the yankees could do though it’d be kind of dumb .
they could have him abandon the sinker and be a 95 mph fastball, slider, change up guy.
that’s what he was before he was taught the sinker.
he’d probably max out as a 5th starter, but that’s something right?
at least they’d have someone they understood.
wang would be crazy to do that though.
what he should do is leave the yankees by his own choice, sign with the rays, get reunited with the coach that taught him the sinker and go back to winning 15 or more games a year.
I remember this from “The Book of Damon” that Boras distributed 4 years ago.
“The most prolific leadoff hitter since Rickey Henderson”
Now I think Damon has been great and he has certainly fulfilled his contract. Much more than many free agents the Yanks have signed.
But Rickey is probably near the top of the list of all-time best leadoff hitters.
I’m not even sure you could say Johnny was the best leadoff guy in any one year. Maybe but it’s still arguable.
If Veritek leaves Boston, not picking up his player option, I wonder how long it will take for the Boston writers to start up the trash talking? Any guesses?
Regarding Wang and adding additional pitches, it had been talked about at that time that Wang would get in trouble when his sinker wasn’t sinking and would get hammered. During the year of the infamous foot injury, Wang had added a pitch, I think it was a slider, and he was getting more strike outs because of it.
A pitcher needs to work on making changes to his game. Look at Mussina during the last season he pitched. Diminished raw “stuff”, but was able to have one of his better seasons.
Tom in N.J.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:53 am
How good would Brien Taylor have been?
He’d be about Andy Pettitte’s age now. If he didn’t get hurt…
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Hes still the same age he’s not dead just not pitching for us. I watched him pitch in Ft Lauderdale in A ball. He was pretty good but I don’t think he was what he was hyped up to be.
“it’s pretty common knowledge that the yankees wanted wang to throw a higher percentage of other pitches.”
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All the Yankees wanted was for Wang to become a more compltete pitcher with another plus pitch to go to to support his 2seamer/4seamer..He went back to his slider which he had scrapped off the sucess of his two seamer.
Mo is the only pitcher in the history of the game to consistantly dominate with 1 pitch,and he’s a short reliever not a starter so that was crucial to his next step
http://www.hittrackeronline.co.....ype=hitter
Johnny Damon’s hrs
least far 347 ft.
Avg 379
where are all the cheapy YS HRS??
champ809
November 11th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Patrick
November 11th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Pat’s daily list of Things To Do:
- Get up, check
- Eat Breakfast, check
- Do some work, check
…
- Read randy’s daily rant about Chien-ming Wang and Brian Cashman …. check
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that is some seriously funny(and absolutely true) sh*#!
next is CashmansGottaGo usual rant about how Cash should be fired for not trading Montero/Hughes/AJax to Seattle for Washburn at the deadline
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haha Champ keep your day job – comedy isn’t one of your strong points..
by the way I would absolutey trade montero/hughes/ajax for Halladay – that would be a steal for the yankees – bt of course cashman is more of a prospect hugger than anyone on this blog – that’ll be his downfall..
by the way aren’t you the guy that wants randy winn or worse yet rick ankiel on the yankees next year? and thinks melancon is the answer in the bullpen? if so maybe you should go into comedy…
oh finally – its “Cashman needs to go”…CashmansGottaGo is another very bright blogger whom I haven’t had the honor of meeting yet – but I’m sure knows what he’s talking about (insert smily face here)
peace out…
The Yankees may have reservations about Wang but there’s no way that Wang is voluntarily going to leave the Yanks. He’s close to a God in Tawain, mostly because he plays for arguably the greatest/most recognizable sports franchise in the world. He’s a reserved person from what I read but it’s doubtful that he doesn’t feel some sort of responsibility to his image as one of Taiwan’s biggest celebrity to continue his relationship with with the Yankees. There’s no way he’s going to go to Tampa Bay if he has a chance to play for the Yankees.
I’m also unsure of where all the talk about Matsui signing with the Mariners came from. Was that just based on speculation that because the team is owned by Nintendo and has Ichiro on the roster that it was a likely fit for a wayward Japanese player? Unless they patched things up recently, Matsui and Ichiro don’t get along. Seattle was probably one of the last teams that would have offered Matsui a contract and the last team that Matsui would have gone to.
“Most everyone is flying out of Chicago this afternoon or this evening”*
you write like Pete
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