Now the real work begins
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- November
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Standing in the Hilton lobby surrounded by the media one last time Wednesday morning, Brian Cashman said many of the same things he had been saying the previous two days. Has anything changed since the GM Meetings began on Monday?
“Nothing at all, actually,” Cashman said.
Up next is what Cashman called a “necessary evil.” The winter isn’t the exciting part of his job. Fans might love the hot stove, but it’s a tedious and I imagine a stressful process for the folks in the front office. Here’s what comes next for the Yankees.
“No different from what we do in the amateur draft,” Cashman said. “Do a prep list up and go from there. Obviously in many positions it’s not relevant, but there are some positions that are relevant. I have a free agent left fielder. I have a free agent DH. I have a free agent starting pitcher. I have a free agent backup catcher. Some free agent bench stuff that are important. Our internal candidates, what the trade market provides and what the free agent market provides, prep them all out and try to put a strategy together to attack those areas of need.”
I’m sure every team is a little different, but in one way or another, teams quite literally make lists of their preferences and then go about trying to make those preferences a reality. Now that Cashman is out of Chicago, that process can begin for the Yankees.
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on Wednesday, November 11th, 2009 at 10:12 pm by Chad Jennings.
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Sam Borden
here we go!
I would love to see Cervelli be the backup catcher, Damon come back but 2 years at most. I hate to say it but I would let Matsui go, resign Wang to a 1 yr incentive laden contract. I would let Hughes and Joba be the 4th and 5th starters but also resign Mitre and Gaudin to go with Aceves, Ian Kennedy for depth. I think Melancon, Robertson and Marte can be setup guys along with Phil Coke.
two comments?
welcome to extra bases
oh, the post has been up for only ten min
sorry
I for some reason like the idea of Rick Ankiel in the outfield.
I don’t, he’s declining quickly
Garym,
You are putting a lot of burden on unproven and untested players. Sure, most all of our young guys have the potential to do great, but I don’t think you can assume that we will be fine with Joba and Hughes as a starter.
They have both had a long stretch of success in the starting role as well as a long stretch of failure. I’m not sure putting them both in the starting rotation is smart, or not yet at least.
Does anyone know were I can find a list that has all the Yankees players that are Rule 5 draft eligible?
hmmmmmm, Two young arms being starters…. seems like we’ve seen that movie before. The ending wasn’t exactly what was wanted.
Anyone know anything about Mo’s father being sick? Someone told me Mo was at an event at Yogi’s Museum but was escorted out quickly.
Nah, I don’t like having both of them in he 4th and 5th spots. I’d love to see them add another proven starter and let Joba and Hughes compete for the 5th spot.
“They have both had a long stretch of success in the starting role as well as a long stretch of failure. I’m not sure putting them both in the starting rotation is smart, or not yet at least.”
They can’t stay in AAA forever, and despite the outcry to turn them into relievers, they have too much potential to waste them in the bullpen.
As far as the whole unproven and untested part, both Joba and Hughes were vital cogs of a World Series championship team. Did they struggle? Yes. But everyone on the team struggled at some point during the season and the playoffs.
There will be growing pains, and maybe they don’t pan out, but they should be given the opportunity to succeed.
I still feel Matsui will be back and think Cash gently bad-mouthing him(”he’s not an outfielder”) is all about isolating him from other potential bidders and driving down his price. Why knock him if you plan to cut ties?
Damon I’m starting to wonder about. Boras loves moving high profile guys to new teams (think Damon from Boston, his attempt to pull Arod from us). Partly it’s to keep teams in future deals from banking on a hometown discount, partly it stokes his massive ego.
It wouldn’t surprise me if he found a sucker willing to go 3 years on Damon. The Metamucils need a LF and the Wilpons love feigning interest in the big ticket guys (Holliday) before settling for the cheaper alternative.
If I’m Cash I make him a very public Abreu-like offer (2 for 20M) and give him a hard deadline. The further this gets from the Parade, the better Boras’ chance of working his mind control on Johnny D (who let’s be honest, isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer).
Garym – I don’t disagree re Damon or Matsui, but I do with respect to your starting pitching options. With Posada, Damon, and Arod all requiring time off or at DH, letting Matsui go and using his money and the savings from signing Damon to a smaller annual deal and not bringing back Molina (cervelli backup), the Yankees should target Lackey. they would be able to reduce payroll and fortify the starting rotation. We had good fortune healthwise this year, especially with andy, aj, and cc…….the rotation needs one more proven starter.
I understand why they want to give Joba a chance to start and see where it goes but in the end I still think he ends up in the pen. just my opinion.
Good call on the Damon issue Randyhater…..Always cool when you come paying a visit to the LoHud
JasonR,
I’m looking at what happened with Ian and Phil last season in the beginning of the season. I don’t want that to happen again. I also don’t necessarily want them in the bullpen to start the season, but I also don’t want them in AAA. But it’s tough to put them two at the bottom of the rotation when you don’t know how Phil will do, and you don’t know if Joba will be able to go more than 5 innings, without giving up more than 3 runs.
I think maybe we’ll know in spring training a little more about Joba. If he shows up in shape and has regained some of his velocity then maybe he’ll show us something as a starter. But if he shows up like he did this year throwing 89-91 then question marks will follow. I think Joba needs to condition a lot better if he’s going to start.
If I was in charge, and I’m not, and actually glad… I think we all must say that Joe Girardi and Brian Cashman and the whole organization proved all the second guessers wrong – and gave us a World Championship team… anyway…
The one big move I’d make is signing John Lackey.
The Yankees get ripped for buying the pennant. They’ll get ripped no matter what. So, if it’s me, I’d buy the best pitcher, again, and the re-sign Pettitte.
That would be one heck of a top four.
That being said, if it doesn’t happen – I’ll assume that Mr. Cashman knows best.
Phil has to start, period……Enough with the pen; this was to be his year to get his innings in and, like it unfortunately always does with Phil, things just went awry. I’m thrilled he found (though he subsequently lost it) his FB command and confidence; I’m thrilled he stayed healthy (which was huge, and it’s why his stuff returned……..and I’m sure being in the pen was a good overall experience. However, it’s set him back as a starter. Phil needs to stay out of the pen and in a rotation (whether it’s AAA to begin the season or in the majors) so he can get accustomed again to facing lineups more than once. If the Yankees don’t want to send him to AAA, then skip his starts…….but it’s time to let this kid be a starter (and yes, he will have major growing pains this year).
Betsy, I agree. Hughes is a starter. He has all the pitches and he just looks like a starting pitcher. They need to just stick him in the #5 slot and let him pitch every 5th day. Skip starts as need be to limit innings. He will struggle some but so does every team’s 5th starter. He needs the experience and its time to take the training wheels off.
Cone made a great point early in the season that sending Hughes to AAA is pointless. He’s learning nothing by just mowing down that level of competition. Joba on the other hand could use a return to the minors.
Rotation should be:
CC
AJ
Andy
FA Starter
Hughes, with the IPK/Gaudin/Mitre/Joba platter in AAA if he falters
I forgot to put Ace in that platter.
Joba will, and should, end up in the bullpen. One thing we should have all learned from this past post season, having big arms in the back of your pen is not “a waste.” Getting multi-inning saves from Mo isn’t going to last forever, and without a shut down guy to end games, we become the Angels or the Frillies.
Stretching Joba out, trying to get him to pitch economically, and having him throw too many types of pitches, robbed him of his agressiveness and made him pedestrian. All the time he spent last year working on his curve and change should have been spent sharpening his fastball command.
Put him back where he belongs, make Hughes the 4, and let Kennedy, Aceves, Gaudin and Mitre compete for the 5.
Pokey, totally agree. Every time Hughes has gone to AAA he has dominated there. He gets nothing from it. Its time for him to take his lumps and learn to get big league hitters out as a starter.
I’d rather have Matsui for 1 year than Damon for 2. Matsui will be one of the top 5 DH’s during the next season. I don’t think Damon will be one of the top 5 left fielders during the next two seasons.
Thanks Pat M.
Sweet Yankee ad by Nike:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.t.....LDxgP2Y%3D
I don’t think Pat M. agrees with Joba in the pen.
Well if these Granderson reports have any merit than Damon becomes a quick after thought. I would think long and hard about it (apparently a deal centered around Austin Jackson) but in the end I think Cashman will come to the conclusion that you can come across a Granderson type talent for the OF without giving up a farm system gem; it sure is intriguing though. Granderson would slide in very nicely in CF and the two hole for the foreseeable future.
The Yankees have spent 2 years trying to make Joba a starter so they are going to give him a chance to do that. But its pretty obvious to me that he’s much better suited for the bullpen both mentally and physically. I don’t see how anyone can deny how much more confident he looks when coming out of the pen.
“But it’s tough to put them two at the bottom of the rotation when you don’t know how Phil will do, and you don’t know if Joba will be able to go more than 5 innings, without giving up more than 3 runs.”
Newsflash: That’s what the bottom of the rotation is. A #4 and #5 starter isn’t a place for lights out aces. After running out Sidney Ponson or Darrell Rasner in 2008, or Sergio Mitre in 2009, I’d gladly hand the keys to Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain (who will see 180-200 innings and should be free from the Joba Rules) and see what they can do with it.
Buddy, I think this is Joba’s make it or break it shot at being a starter…..He was foefully out of shape in 09, so I think the Club is just about ready to pull the plug on Joba as a starter….In fact I really wouldn’t be shocked if he were to be moved this winter…..I hope not, but I have always believed that Young Master Hughes was the guy who will be an outstanding starting pitcher….The problem is the past 3 seasons have been an oddessy of sorts…..All depends on how Cashman goes about replacing the gapping hole that Wang’s injury left…..Keep an eye for a reboorn Ian Kennedy next March……
Chamberlain was a starter all his life until ‘07 when innings limits forced a move. I think he can be a great starter again, but it’s going to take him getting into better shape and getting his head out of his rear end. I want a guy like that pitching 200 innings a year for my club, not 80.
Joba rules or no Joba rules, the reason he struggles as a starter is because he nibbles, gets behind, then grooves a 92 mph fastball in a 3-1 count or walks the guy. So unless he shows up in better shape and comes after people like he does out of the pen, then its gonna be the same thing as last year.
I still have a bad taste in my mouth from Kennedy’s last stint in the bigs (not this year, the one inning outing), but he’s a kid and he certainly deserves a shot. I hope he goes to AAA and is lights out…
Pat M, I agree…there are no excuses for Joba this year. He doesn’t have to be great, but he has to be solid. If he comes into camp out of shape, then there is something seriously wrong with him as far as his dedication and committment to his career and team go.
Joba looked fairly pedestrian serving up an awful belt high fastball to Pedro Feliz – an terrible hitter who rocketed that pitch out of the park.
Joba looked less than pedestrian coming out of the pen against the Angels in the ALCS giving up 5 hits in 1 2/3 of an inning.
Coming out of the pen this year he didn’t even look remotely comparable to how he looked coming out of the pen in 2007.
Joba was wildly inconsistent this year and all too often pedestrian the second half of the year regardless of role.
His stuff was flucuated and was down all year. He was inconsistent not simply on a game to game basis but on a pitch to pitch basis.
One of the more striking things about his performance was the way in which he was not better out of the pen in the playoffs than he was. Even in a situation where he could just rear back and empty the tank he couldn’t get his slider over or a fastball by Pedro Feliz. And Pedro Feliz is a terrible hitter, a hitter who is routinely over powered by strong pitching.
I didn’t get the praise for Joba in game 4. I mean, he gave up the game tying HR to a mediocre hitter….I don’t want to kill Joba – Phil had his own problems in the post-season, to the point where Girardi completely lost faith in him – but I agree that the pen is no panacea for him (for anyone, really).
“I don’t see how anyone can deny how much more confident he looks when coming out of the pen.”
That’s all fine and good if you conveniently ignore the 5.40 ERA and 3.000 WHIP he posted in the ALCS and the potentially disastrous game-tying home run he gave up in Game 4 or that he couldn’t get through the bottom of the 7th in Game 6 of the World Series.
I’m not saying he can’t be great in the bullpen. But Joba looked good and bad in both situation. He’s still a young kid learning how to pitch in the major leagues and maybe he received a little too much hype when he came up. Hopefully, he gets his head on straight in the offseason and comes back as the Joba we all know he can be, regardless of what job he has.
CB, in that AB against Feliz he threw the first 2 fastballs right by him then screwed around throwing the slider until the count was full and Feliz knew the fastball was coming again. The difference I saw out of the pen was 95-96 instead of 90-92 as a starter. You’re right though he wasn’t particularly good in any role last year and was wildly inconsistent.
Pokey,
All his life? He’s 24 years old. Are we really going to let how he was used in college and high school dictate what we do with him now?
Most top relievers (including the greatest one ever) were starters in college and/or the minors. So what?
To me, a properly balanced championship squad has 3 of its best arms at the top of the rotation and two of it’s best at the back of the pen.
Most post season games get decided in the late innings when your starters are in the shower. If you’re the Royals and have no chance at meaningful October games, stretch everybody out in the rotation. If you’re the Yankees and plan on competing for titles, do you want the Brian Bruneys of the world in with the season on the line? Not me.
JasonR, I’m just going on what I see when watching him pitch in relief vs starting. He looks better in relief. Girardi must have thought the same thing. He went from having zero confidence in him as the 4th starter to going to him in key spots in relief in the postseason.
This debate over Joba is kinda silly in reality because he has done nothing to deserve so much attention.
“in that AB against Feliz he threw the first 2 fastballs right by him then screwed around throwing the slider until the count was full and Feliz knew the fastball was coming again.”
I know that. I posted that immediately after the ball left the yard.
But the entire at bat was still eye opening.
I’m sorry but joba pen or starter this year was not even close to performing at the consistent level we’ve seen him throw at prior to this season.
That’s why that at bat to Feliz was a microcosm of his entire season. Looked great for 2 pitches. Looked awful for 4 others.
There’s this idea that Joba’s stuff “returned” in the playoffs. It didn’t. It was still not very good. Of course the threw harder but he was nowhere close to what he was out of the pen in 2007.
In 2007 out of the pen, Joba could have walked up to the batters box, told Pedro Feliz a fastball was coming, and Feliz still would never have been able to square the ball up and drive it.
The difference is enormous. And it’s not related to what role he’s pitching in. Joba’s problems this season went way past his role.
He was out of shape. In turn he had poor stamina. And spanning those two issues were his poor mechanics.
One of the most befuddling part of Joba’s performance this year was how inconsistent he was repeating his delivery. His release point would change significantly from pitch to pitch.
Repeating your delivery requires a certain level of athleticism and endurance.
Joba simply didn’t have that this year and that’s why he pitched the way he did.
He was trying to rely on his arm while his body was just not up to the condition required to perform.
In the past Joba would have been able to locate his pitches better and not fallen behind Feliz in the first place.
That was an eye opening bat all the way around. Just awful both in terms of stuff and command.
Joba to the Pen People,
Starters are more valuable than bullpen arms. If you have decided that at 24, after 1 season of starting that Joba doesn’t belong in the Yankee rotation, he is much more valuable as a trade chip than as a bullpen arm.
CB, I can agree with that. Joba needs p90x
CB
Starting him all year and filling his head with foolishness like “pitch to contact” and “keep your emotions in check” and then expecting him come post season to just forget all that and go back to being the old Joba was a recipe for disaster.
He was lights out in the 8th inning before (and after) the Feliz homer and it was bad fastball command that killed him on that pitch. The velocity was plenty good.
Perhaps if he’d spent more time during the season focusing on placing his 4 seamer, and less time on learning every single pitch known to man, he’d have been sharper and more confident.
The guy’s at his best, and most consistent, when he’s striking people out and pitching with swagger. The bullpen is where he belongs.
You don’t take a guy who is 24 with 4 pitches and the ability to light up a radar gun and stick him in the pen. The reason those guys end up in the bullpen is because they either don’t throw more than 1 or 2 pitches well (Mo), can’t figure out how to go through a lineup more than once or can’t handle pitching 150+ innings a year (Kerry Wood).
Once again, you want your best arms pitching the most innings. That’s what starters are for.
The talent is there. We have every right to question his conditioning and where his head is at, and I think us fans aren’t the only ones who do. But with that kind of arm, you have to see if he can put it together. Once you make the bullpen decision, it’s virtually impossible to make him a starter again later on.
And as I’ve said before, the kid is learning on the job. In a sane world, he wouldn’t have even seen the majors until this season at the earliest. Same with Hughes and IPK. All 3 were rushed for various reasons, and it screwed up their development.
Great post, Chad.
Cash is being totally honest.
Reading between the lines:
Damon gets Abreu (2+1) from the Yankees. IF he wants more, good luck and vaya con dios. Who will give him more–nobody.
Matsui gets 1+1 at a reasonable price from the Yankees. If he wants to go to the Angels for more and a chance to play LF, sayonara and kempai.
Pettitte will resign with little drama for one more year.
Payroll at about $190-195 million.
Minor stuff–they think about Molina, et al.
“This debate over Joba is kinda silly in reality because he has done nothing to deserve so much attention.”
He has a lot of talent, and he’s shown flashes of brilliance in both roles. It’s easy to forget now, but he was probably the best Yankee starter not named Mussina in the summer of 2008 before he got injured. I defy anyone to say he didn’t look ultra-confident when he was outdueling Josh Beckett at Fenway Park.
He had the gas coming out of the bullpen this past postseason, but he couldn’t locate and still had the same problems with nibbling with his slider that he had as a starter. He definitely didn’t . Girardi used him in key spots, but it’s a stretch to say he had the same swagger he had in 2007. Robertson and Marte both performed much better last month.
Although it hasnt been made official yet……..
Pittsburgh Pirates versus Yankees Tampa 1:15pm March 3rd,2010.
There will be 19 Home ST Games in Tampa for 2010.My statement arrived yesterday in the mail.
“Starting him all year and filling his head with foolishness like “pitch to contact” and “keep your emotions in check” and then expecting him come post season to just forget all that and go back to being the old Joba was a recipe for disaster.”
I don’t think they did anything of the sort and I’ve never seen any evidence for them having done so.
Where do people get these ideas that the yankees intentionally instruct their pitchers to do things that would obviously make them awful pitchers? If it’s obvious to fans it obvious to people in the organization.
The reason why Joba “nibbled” this year was because he simply didn’t have good stuff because he wasn’t in shape.
He pitched tentatively because he couldn’t physically do what he did over the past two years. In turn he tried to be too fine and “nibbled.” He almost pitched like Mike Mussina did when he was going through that transition in his career when he lost his fastball.
And it’s an artificial distinction to say that Joba’s stuff was good out of the pen because his velocity was good but his command was bad. That’s doesn’t make him a dominant reliever. That would make him Kyle Farnsworth.
His fastball was flat even out of the pen in the playoffs. He had better velocity but not nearly the life he had before.
When Joba was utterly dominant out of the pen it wasn’t simply because he was sitting 98-100. It was because he was sitting 98-100 an consistently hitting the outside corners of the plate. That was what was so amazing about Joba before.
He lost the ability to do that consistently this year because his mechanics were a mess. If he could he would have put that 3-2 fastbal to Feliz over the low outside corner of the plate.
Joba’s problems went much deeper than his role. Focusing on his role is only a cosmetic issue.
If he doesn’t fix the deeper root causes of him pitching so inconsistently he’s not going to be an effective starter or reliever.
CB, When I saw Joba for the first time live this season was during that July Sweep in Anahiem…I was 3 rows behind the plate and I was stunned to see him simply unravel in the 2nd inning after being posted to a 4-0 lead…..In that inning ( the 2nd ) he was falling behind, and once he hit the 18th pitch of that frame, he was sucking for air, his leg lifts were decreasing, and he was rocking in what appeared to be behind the rubber…I was stunned to see a 24 year old pitcher just becoming gassed in each and every pitch…..Yes CB, his mechanics or lack there of, combined with being sorely out of shape was the cause for a rather forgetable 09……He & the club are lucky he didn’t come up lame this season…
“Perhaps if he’d spent more time during the season focusing on placing his 4 seamer, and less time on learning every single pitch known to man, he’d have been sharper and more confident. ”
Even if he had pinpoint control with his 4 seamer, he’s facing major league hitters. If all he concentrates on is a 4 seam fastball, he might as well walk up to the mound with a sign that says “Free Home Runs here”.
There’s only one person in baseball who can rely on only one pitch. And he throws a cutter.
Pat M., CB & randyhater-
Good info. So if Joba were to be traded, would you move Joba for Granderson even up? If not, who else then?
Joba is 24 with almost no minor league innings (like 57?).
He’s 21 in baseball years.
All the stuff he’s gone through would have happened in AA and AAA for most players–learning to pace, keeping up the mechanics over a long season, getting out of jams, understanding his stuff.
He’s had to do it in the show. Like sausage, you don’t want to see how a ML pitcher is made.
The raw materials are there. I think he will be just fine.
Saying 180>80 is all well and good. But some one needs to get those last 3-9 outs. Teams that have tried to do that with retreads and leftovers (every other playoff team this season; the 90’s Braves; etc.) have reaped a harvest of tears.
Also, do people really think that if Mo had been a starter he would have been anything less than exemplary? He throws one pitch because it’s all he needs. If he needed more, he’d have developed them. Don’t forget, he didn’t even throw a cutter in ‘96 and picked it up on the fly in the pen watching Wells and Pettitte.
Pat M.,
I remember you posting about that on that terrible game he threw against the rally monkeys.
For a while I thought Joba was saving bullets because he was worried about his shoulder and wanting to make sure he could throw 150 innings. I couldn’t think of too many other reasons for him to just lose his stuff like that other than it being a choice.
But as the season went on it became rapidly clear that he just couldn’t physically perform up to prior levels and it wasn’t his shoulder that was the problem.
It was his conditioning. He literally was out of shape. He was in lousy shape and everything fell apart from there. And it was bizarre to see a young pitcher fall apart for that reason.
His mechanics were awful this year. He just did not have the athleticism to repeat his delivery – something he did well before.
That’s also why his pace was so bad. He was trying to slow down because he was in poor condition.
I really want to see him to go to something like the Athletes Sports Insitute and do a very structured training program this off season.
If he just sits at home in Nebraska like he did last off season and let himself stay out of shape and unfocused he should be sent to AAA not the bull pen.
He has the talent. At one point in time he had an 80 fastball, a 70-75 slider and a 60-65 curve ball and a developing change.
His future is completely up to him.
Sorry, I was mistaken. Joba pitched 88.1 innings. That’s 2/3 of one minor league season.
Before we trade him away, shoudn’t he get a chance at the ML level?
Buddy,
I wouldn’t trade Joba for Granderson. I would send Joba to AAA before I did that.
All young pitchers struggle. I’m fine with that. But they tend to struggle like Hughes has.
Joba’s struggles are partly experience but partly conditioning and that’s what’s disappointing.
When he went into the starting rotation in 2008 he was literally one of the best starting pitchers in the AL before he got that tendinitis.
I would only trade him for some kind of young front line starter.
Mo started out as a starter and by all accounts failed b/c he couldn’t develop any secondary pitches.
Also his fastball always had a natural cut to it, and he refined it in ‘97 playing catch with Ramiro Mendoza.
Thanks again to Buster Olney’s book.
Buddy, Man I think that’s one of the bigger decision the Club has to decide on this winter…Give Joba another shot next March to be a in shape and focused MLB starting pitcher…..If Cashman is going to go big game hunting, Joba could very well be the bait……I cannot see Cashman giving up Hughes, but Joba is a different story I believe…….I’m for kicking him in the behind, and being put on a very tough conditioning program…..Fish or cut bait Joba….
Johan Santana–6 years in the minors before exploding at age 24.
Roy Halliday–7 years in the minors before exploding at age 25.
Josh Beckett–3 years in the minors before call up in 2003.
Joba’s due. As is Phil.
So does Cashman float rumors of Joba being moved as a way to jumpstart his conditioning program this off season?
“The NL doesn’t make sense for Damon. But then again, SF thought signing Barry Bonds was a great idea”
Signing Barry Bonds WAS a great idea.
PYF-
Big difference is that they were allowed to develop away from the spotlight and not have their roles jerked around. I think they can both be very good, but the last 3 years have not done them any favors, except Hughes’ pen stint this season.
Pokey’s spot on. Mo didn’t originally pick up the cutter from Pettite or Wells.
It happenned as an accident. Mo and Mel Stottlemeyer actually tried to elminate the cutting action on his ball when it first happened because they were afraid the ball was moving so much he would lose command.
Using Mo as an example to replicate for anything is dubious at best because he is a complete outlier. There has never been a player remotely like him in the history of the game.
Buddy, Cashman simply tells Joba, be in excellent condition when Pitchers & Catchers report on Feb 10th, or find an apartment in Scranton…Bottom line…..
CB,
I don’t buy the argument that Joba’s conditioning was the problem. He wasn’t exactly Charles Atlas in ‘07 and it’s not like he dominated the early innings in ‘09.
The “Joba Rules” have been well documented and there’s no denying that the team, and every one associated with it, has been trying to get this guy to throw fewer pitches per inning and get deeper into games. They’ve also made no secret of their love for his change and curve. Why are people surprised then when he nibbles rather than challenging with his fastball?
In trying to get him to throw four good pitches they took away the 2 great ones that he had. It’s not a coincidence that he was throwing 91-92 during the season while working on his junk and then jumped back up to 95-96 when he went strictly fastball/slider.
Yes, his mechanics were screwed up. Trying to throw 9 different pitches will do that to a young pitcher.
If Damon comes back for 2 yrs,Boras has mission accomplished!!
This whole hype campaign of Damon was to get him 2yrs with bank. Cashman should go Holliday shopping instead!!
I agree with Garym and I will make some predictions as well
Damon–> DH
Cervelli–> backup catcher
Pettitte–> 3rd starter
Joba–> 4th starter
Hughes–> 5th starter
David dehesus–> LF
Wang–> minor league incentives laden contract
I don’t think the Yanks want Damon involved in any play where he needs to hold a runner. While his bat this post season was awesome his arm was borderline embarrassing. His contract will most likely be 2yr/10m per yr
Cervelli to me seems like a simple upgrade offensively he also younger and cheaper than Molina and I don’t think you lose to much defensively
I have a gut feeling Pettitte will be back my prediction 1yr/10m
Joba was very effective the first 100 innings of 09 with a 3.5 ERA, he would never say it but he had never gone much past that and I think he got fatigued by August. My prediction for next yr. around 200 innings with and ERA in the neighborhood of 4 with about 190 K’s
Hughes to me is the only wild card. But I do think he starts the year in the rotation and maybe finishes the year in the bullpen when he reaches his innings limits.
Wang. I think given enough time to recover from surgery he will prove to be effective again. My prediction is he starts the year in AAA and in august when Phil is moved to the bullpenn Wang will be recalled and be added to the starting rotation.
My left field prediction for Dejesus is based on the fact that the royals recently said he was available. and hes a 30 yr old solid defender with a good arm who can hit .290 with 10-15 hr in Yankee stadium and an obp around .350. What do you guys think it would take to land him?
Aceves?, Kennedy?, Pena?, Coke?, Gaudin? I could see this being the type of move Cash would use to clear space on the 40 man roster similar to what he did last year when he got swisher.
If not Dejesus Someone similar, I dont see Cash goign after a Bay or a Holliday, maybe one of the following?
Matt Diaz, Ryan Church, Cody Ross, Shin-Soo Choo, Delmon Young? My point being is that these guys are all in the neighborhood of 30 or younger all hit between .270 and .300 and take a walk, and could all hit 10-20 homers and there all reasonable contracts. It also wouldn’t surprise me to see Xavier Nady back as a free agent as he would put up similar numbers (assuming he is recovered from surgery)
This is all of course based on the assumption that Cashman is being serious about wanting to get younger, which I think he should be. Any way there my 2 cents, what do you all think?
randyhater,
Go back and watch that start Joba made against Beckett in Fenway in 2008.
That was one of the best starts any yankee pitcher had thrown in years. He was beastly that night.
There was nothing tentative about him that night. And he was able to mix pitches and dominate.
And the yankees were being very cautious with his innings even back then.
It’s not the role. It’s the player.
Joba was throwing 4 pitches in the minors. Scouts rated him as throwing 3 plus pitches and a change up that was developing into a plus pitch.
Focusing on the role is purely a surface issue with Joba.
“Stretching Joba out, trying to get him to pitch economically, and having him throw too many types of pitches, robbed him of his agressiveness and made him pedestrian. All the time he spent last year working on his curve and change should have been spent sharpening his fastball command.
Put him back where he belongs, make Hughes the 4, and let Kennedy, Aceves, Gaudin and Mitre compete for the 5.”
No way. Joba’s season, up until they started messing with him, was very good. Sure, even early on he was inconsistent, but he has shown he’s able to dominate as a starter. His curveball has turned into a really good pitch, and it’s deifnitely something he’s going to use in the future.
So to those who want both Lackey and Pettitte. You now have six front line starters for five positions. You take one of the two potential 1/2 starters and make one into a reliever where he immediately, is worth less than a #4 starter. What am I missing here? Does not compute. And you are also knee deeper in Relievers.
would look at back-up plans for Damon.
would contact Detroit, and check if they have interest in Joba.
joba, austin jackson, and an aditional prospect in exchange for Curtis Granderson
would not wish to give up David Robertson. Am biased – he is my fave
All this Joba talk, is it November 2007???
As a neutral Yankee fan, I have read the arguments of CB and randyhater with some interest.
Sorry, randyhater, you lose. But I appreciate your passion for the topic.
Hatred is dangerous; it can get in the way of clear thinking.
“joba, austin jackson, and an aditional prospect in exchange for Curtis Granderson”
I would think that Seattle signing Griffey for next season possibly diminishes their need of signing Matsui. He could be a luxury player for many clubs. I still think he’s coming back to the Yanks.
Mo was not a “failed starter.” He started 10 games in ‘95, one of which, if I remember right, was a 2-hit, 10-SO smackdown of the Chisox on July 4th.
Again I ask, is there anyone here who believes he would have been anything less than a top starter?
If so, then moving him to the bullpen must be one of the greatest wastes of talent in the history of baseball.
Randy you’re talking as if he was just trying to learn those pitches in the last season or two. HE”S ALWAYS THROWN THEM.
Bottom line is that his ego needs to be put in check and his cardio is terrible. He may not have been built like an adonis in ‘07, but you can tell he has put on some weight and you can see how quickly he can gas. He needs to spend the offseason in Houston with Andy.
The day after the WS Damon turned 36,he’s long in the tooth for ans Outfielder.
I’m concerned about his legs.This is a contract year,they all perform better.
Cashman should leave sentiment aside,as usual,and do as he always does,what’s best for the Yankees.
Curtis Granderson is suspect. He’s had one great year. He might have hit 30 HR this year but he also hit .249 struck out 141 times and hit a pathetic .181 against lefty pitching. He is a career .210 hitter against left handers. so I don’t think you want to give up Joba and Jackson and a prospect for that kind of production.
Once again, Mo only had one pitch. I don’t care who you are, you cannot go through a lineup 2-3 times for an entire season with just one pitch.
Stick, Torre, etc. knew that, which is why after the spot-starts in ‘96 they put him in middle relief full-time in ‘97.
Had he developed another 2 pitches, they would have left him as a starter.
What is a neutral Yankee fan?
i dont understand all the people comparing the yankees possibly having 2 young starters in the rotation next year (joba and hughes) and 2008. besides the 2 young starters nothing else is similar.
even if joba and hughes dont pitch well the rest of our rotation and our offense will be strong enough to pick them up, both of which we didnt have in 2008. wang started out strong but then got hurt, pettitte was ok then got hurt, and moose didnt really pick it up till later in the year and posada and masui had to go on the dl and jeter was playing hurt. now theres nothing saying that wont happen again but im not going to bet on it. plus we have cc and aj now.
also 2008 hughes does not equal 2010 hughes and ian kennedy does not equal joba chamberlan.
joba and hughes should start the 2010 season in the rotation
We’re not gonna have to give up Joba or Jackson for Granderson. It’s gonna be this year’s version of the Swisher deal. They are selling low on him.
I’m with CB on Joba.
Yankee fan, neutral about Joba’s role before the better arguments continue to suggest he should be given every opportunity to start.
Perhaps ‘open-minded’ would have been better usage than ‘neutral’.
My apologies.
You can’t have Hughes and Joba as the 4 and 5 guys. That’s asking too much of the bullpen, especially early in the season. If they don’t get Lackey, they are going to need to get a 4 who can give them 160+ innings.
I hope Mo can effectively go 5 more yrs.There’s 1 closer that has more saves than Mo’s (529),and that’s Trevor Hoffman who is 42 and has 591.
I think Mo wants the all time record.Hoffman will retire soon then Mo can go for it.
Joba can throw close to 200 innings next year. He’s fine at #4 and if his velo’s back, he’s a #1 or 2 pitching 4th.
Cone has said that it takes over a year to recover full velocity from the shoulder injury Joba had. When you think about it, the expectations for him this season were never that reasonable.
Coming back,and having to defend their WS title,should embolden them all.
Should be a great season.All the newbies as well as the baby bombers have postseason experience now.
Wang should sign a minor league contract!!
The only thing Wang will get is a minor league deal with incentives if he can get on the 25 and 40 man rosters.
Nick in SF…I nailed my 1st College B-Ball game tonight…….Cal-Berkley Bears laying 19 was a lock…….
A interesting comparison to Joba this year is Verlander circa 2008. He really struggled that year losing velocity on his fastball and in turn struggling with his offspeed stuff.
I’m not sure what caused this sudden decline in performance, but I remember something about Verlander and the Tigers trying a different approach in order for him to not max out early in games.
So Verlander was able to get his old stuff back in 2009 after getting absolutely bombed the first 4 games of this year, and I mean if Joba goes out and puts up Verlander’s numbers in the first four games he starts next year people will want him cut from the team.
Post allstar break I remember Joba came back and had 3 good starts shutting down the Rays for 8 innings looking like he had his stuff together.
He’s still a young pitcher playing in NY dealing with extra pressure learning on the job while getting shifted back and forth while everyone over analyzes everything that has to do with Joba. I think the constant uncertainty of his role doesn’t help his perfromance.
That 2007 callup when he didn’t give up a run out of the pen for about 16 innings might have been the worst thing that happened to him. He shot up through the minors and was an absolute beast throwing harder at the end of games as a starter. I just don’t see how you can lose that kind of stuff in a year. I saw him pitch live a few games this year. When I saw him pitch live a few times it looked to me like he was holding something back.
I would still like to see him get a full year as a starter before making any decisions regarding his future.
Good job, Pat M. I just watched that game but I did not bet it. Syracuse will be a better guage than Detroit was…
Verlander’s problems were with mechanics though. There’s no comparison between his struggles and Joba’s.
Joemama? thats a name I heard before did you work at camp workcoeman??
Nick in SF….This is Cal’s year to make a serious run come March….Really them & The Washington Huskies should be 1 & 2 in the Pac 10……..My UCLA Bruins are a very young but have the best mix of Frosh & Soph’s in the Nation….However they didn’t make any of the top 25 polls…It’s been a long time since that’s happened…Kevin Love would have been only a Junior……I like Cal to go to the Final Four
Final Four…that would be astounding. I’ll get back to you in late February on that… California Golden Bears, big pre-season ranking…where have I seen that before?
~~~vin November 11th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Where else would Damon go?
…..
Seattle – they don’t have enough pitching to contend~~~~
hmmmmm….
I believe it was the lack of offense that was the problem – here’s hoping Jack Z has some plans to rectify that.
As for the pitching, couldn’t have asked for much better last season (with the lowest ERA in the league and all). The “rejuvenated” Wash is gone (although seems he un-rejuvenated himself in Detroit) but they still have Felix, Morrow and RRS, Snell and some up-and-comers that seem promising. The bullpen’s key pieces are all returning (Aardsma, Lowe, White, Kelley) – not to mention the coaches – Wetteland and Adair who all the arms seem to worship. But, like they say, you can never have too much pitching – so I look for Jack Z to go find some more.
Nick in SF….This is round ball of which I speak of…..The loaf ball season has been a drag for the both of us…I thought either USC or Cal-Berkley had a legit shot…USC never recovered from the Huskie loss
Mariano had a 5 ERA in the majors, not enough good pitches, didn’t strike anyone out, gave up too many hits. His 1 useful tool was control and command of a fastball. But just having a fastball wasn’t enough, his HR rate skyrocketed.
What do you do with a guy that has a great fastball only, and command of it and not much else? Make him a reliever.
Demon is old and have weak arms.
Demon’s hitting skill is not better than Matsui.
If Demon want a “big deal”,Yankees’d better let him go.
Althought Yankees is rich,I still wish Yankees is smart to pay money.
The Mariners aspire to be our next ALDS victim? Perhaps so. We have an old score to settle with them too. Bring it on.
Pat M, I hope you’re right. The Syracuse game will be a nice test.
The Orangemen are overated…..However it will be an eye opener for chumps like Vital Company
~~~~Nick in SF November 12th, 2009 at 2:09 am
The Mariners aspire to be our next ALDS victim? Perhaps so. We have an old score to settle with them too. Bring it on.~~~~
You know, Nick. I think that score was settled already, multiple times. Come on – Junior deserves a ring – let us have our story book ending.
Screw Junior
frustrating times for fans. any news we actually read about yankees’ plans for 2010 season, any hot tips or insiders’ inside stories are planted to affect the market one way or another.
the granderson news is all hype to show boras and damom there are other cheap outfield options. no one is serious here.
It’s too early to say what is hype and what isn’t. With that said, Cashman has to fully explore the Granderson situation if the Yankee organization feels it can improve his batting approach. Having Jeter hitting before him and Tex after would be something to watch.
The “Joba rules” no longer apply. He pitched with fire in his eyes during the postseason coming out of the bullpen.
Because of a lack in conditioning, he showed that pitching mutiple innings caused him to break down after 5 innings of work.
The front office thought of him as a starter but his most consistent work has been coming out of the bullpen.
Add Lackey and there’s other arms coming soon like Zach McAllister and Ivan Nova. A fired up Joba as the 8th inning man makes a good bullpen become an outstanding one.
It must be hot stove season because the Mike Cameron discussions have begun !.. UGHHH
If the Yankees are to use any of there trading chips .. it will be for pitching not Curtis Granderson
I don’t think Cameron will be a factor. It would have made more sense last year and they didn’t do it then. He’s a strikeout machine and not a significant upgrade over what they have
I like Granderson. but i think the Yanks need a high OBP guy.
So,me of the funniest comments about Boras comparing Damon to Jeter and wanting the Yankees to give Damon the same contract they would give Jeteter.
-Boras has completely lost his mind.
-Jeter is Mr Yankee,no comparison,no nothing…
-Boras should be put in front of a firing squad.
-He hits like a man and throws like a girl.They never take Jeter out for a defensive replacement.
-With his beard he looks like Jesus,but throws like Mary,a very good player but not Jeter money.
-Bye Johnny,Welcome back Hideki.Too bad Boras didn’t mention how “great” a defensive outfielder (wink wink) he is.
So as you can read even beantown,says he’s not worth 4 more yrs.
Putting Phil in the pen, for any time this season, esp. at the end of the season, would be a huge mistake. I understand about the confidence he gained (but that disappeared suddenly, didn’t it?), but he needs to start and start consistently at this point. Forget the pen – that will set him back again. I know that Phil has it in him to be a darn good SP – I don’t think it will be this year because he’s got too many things to overcome (no change, inconsistent curve – though I think just by using it again, it will be fine – learning to go through lineups multiple times)……He will have his ups and downs, but the Yankees will be patient wtih him (I hope – I don’t think the fans will, though).
Joba should be treated exactly the way Phil was. If he’s bad, he gets sent to AAA. If he comes to camp out of shape, he gets sent to AAA.
Mean some of the funniest comments.
Over a year to recover from tendonitis? That doesn’t sound right…..
I’m very hesitant to give up anything of value for Granderson if he’s so bad against lefties he’s practically got to be platooned.
Funny, isn’t it? I liked Granderson a lot – LIKE – him a lot. Always thought that if he became available I’d love to have him on the Yankees. Now that it’s a possibility, you look at his numbers and you try to place him in that lineup, and all his weaknesses (well, the fact that he doesn’t hit lefties much) become glaring, and I no longer feel the same way.
Then, a guy like Holliday, who I didn’t want the Yankees to entertain the idea of at all, I look again at his numbers, and I say to myself, well, maybe he’s the better fit.
Of course, what I’d rather have happen is the Yankees have Damon for one more year (though I know it will be 2 if at all) and Matsui for one more year and wait until next year to make any huge moves.
Nothing like actually having to face possible realities to realign your wish list.
Doreen, I can’t give big $$$ and big years to Matt Holliday……and I don’t think the Yankees have any interest in him at all.
If Joba is smart, he will participate in a conditioning program in the off-season. He will get his legs in shape and improve his over-all stamina. He will do this without much prompting. He will show that he wants to be a starter (regardless where the Yankees decide to put him) and is willing to do the work.
If Joba does not do the smart thing, then I don’t particularly care anymore where he ends up.
I always keep in mind that these players are human beings with lives outside of baseball and we have no idea what went on during Joba’s off-season last year. Perhaps it was just a young guy too impressed with himself and his situation (wow – basketball games with CC Sabathia!) or someone whose personal life was taking some kind of toll (his mom or anything else). But regardless of that, or maybe BECAUSE of that, he needs to focus on his career or possible lose it – instead of being a star pitcher for the best team in baseball, he ends up a journeyman who teams are positive they can “fix” because he’s got the tools in there somewhere.
I hope he chooses to examine what failed him this season (because he’s got to be somewhat disappointed in the results) and work on it.
After the ‘05 season, nobody would give Damon more than a 3 year deal, except the Yankees. There is no way that anybody would be willing to give him more than 3 years now, 4 years later. He will be lucky to get any offer for more than 2 years, and I definitely think the Yankees should offer 2, take it or leave it. Maybe not in those harsh words, but that effect.
I would prefer they offer 1 year, with some kind of team option for the 2nd year, but there is no way Boras would allow a client of his to sign that.
Betsy -
I still don’t think the Yankees should pursue Holliday. Just saying that to me, he suddenly looked a lot better in comparison to Granderson.
I like the speed and pop Granderson brings to the table. But he K’s and low on base % turns me off to the idea of him playing for us.
The more you look at the outfield FAs and guys on the possible trade market, the more you realize there just isn’t much out there right now. Holliday is the most complete player available, but I am not sure another huge contract is in the cards. I am also not sure how much of a fit he would be.
Everybody else has major flaws, including Damon. I suggested Soriano as a possibility the other day, but his contract makes that very difficult, even if he didn’t have serious shortcomings. Granderson is young enough that you shouldn’t write him off as nver going to hit LH pitching, but it will probably take more than we want to give up for him.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t like Granderson, I just wouldn’t give the sun and the moon.
I also think Joba will be on a short leash this year……and he had better show up to camp in shape. If what SJ said throughout the year is to be believed, the Yankees clearly lost their patience with this kid. I’m hoping that this year humbled him. If not, the Yankees will have to make a decision on him………
Erica – always OPPC
November 11th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Erin-
I just gave in and bought the DVD
********************
Erica, you won’t regret it!!
I would like to see Johnny and Matsui back next year…and would love to see Carl Crawford the following year…a girl can dream, right?
Anyone listen to dumb and dumber this morning? They took Cashman’s comments totally out of context. They went on for over an hour that Cash said he wasn’t giving Joe a contract extension. Leaving out the part where Cash said he isn’t worrying about someone under contract when he has coaches and players who need to be signed. If I had time this morning I would have called them out on it.
Btw which coaches are not under contract for this year? It would really be a shame to lose any of them, they seemed to work really well together.
The devil is always in the details. If you want Granderson, you’re going to have to be willing to part with, probably, IPK and Jackson, at least. And given the uncertainty surrounding Joba, I’m not willing to give up IPK just yet. I know a lot of people don’t like him because of one unfortunate post-game interview (and also how he performed during the pre-mature stint in the majors), but I still think he’s going to be a very, very good ML starter. I always thought that. I think the 2008 experiment was unfortunate and pre-mature.
And Jackson is one of the few bona fide position-player prospects the Yankees have who is just about ready (not quite, though). They already gave up on one (Tabata), and I’d hate to see them move the other just yet.
I know it’s dangerous to get too “in love” with prospects, but those two, I don’t know, I just feel like they will be worth the wait for the Yankees.
I would be very surprised to see Crawford hit FA, but if he does, I think he will be a Yankee. He has also expressed interest in the Astros. But it is likely that the Rays will open their meager pursestrings for Crawford, especially since Upton will certainly be leaving when he is eligible. If they let Crawford get away, they will never have any credibility here that they are interested in being a MLB team.
Is Erica around?????
I was wondering what this meant: ” One of the big topics Wednesday was the federal tax code that could impact fringe benefits for players and executives, including meal per diems and championship rings.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11.....ref=sports
Doreen,
I am looking forward to seeing Jackson in the Yankee outfield, but I don’t know how good he is really going to be. From what I have heard about him, and the little I have seen, I am thinking, maybe, Roberto Kelly? If that is what he becomes, that wouldn’t be all bad. I really liked Kelly, if Ajax can be for 10 years what Kelly was for 2 or 3, I think we would be happy with that.
jennifer
November 11th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Anyone know anything about Mo’s father being sick? Someone told me Mo was at an event at Yogi’s Museum but was escorted out quickly.
***************
jennifer-I have no idea, but it would explain a lot. Wasn’t he excused from a couple of workouts during the postseason for personal reasons?
Erin- Yeah I think you are right. I haven’t had a chance to check on it again this morning.
Mark in Tampa -
I’m with you. Someone steady and consistent offensively, but not necessarily a superstar, who can play really good defense. I think that would be a success. The superstars are few and far between, and if that’s the only thing the fanbase will be happy with, then they’ll never be completely happy.
Rishi,
I think they mean that those type of benefits will no longer be able to be deducted as a business expense.
Mark
I agree w/ you, the Rays really do need to find a way to keep Crawford…but I would still like to see him as a Yankee
Doreen
I agree w/ not giving up on IPK. Sometimes we forget how very young these players are, and to fault IPK for one bad interview that has been overanalyzed is unfair. Joba, Phil and IPK had unrealistic expectations placed on them in ‘08. I think they will all be valuable players in ‘10.
The Yankees will only go after Lacky if Andy retires. They won’t over pay though; he gets AJ money or it will be someone else. The yankees do need one more Vet, the rest of the rotation is set with CC, AJ, Joba, and Phil.
As for Matt Holliday, I could see them going after him if neither Damon or Sui are resigned. Damon gets a contract similar to Bobby A or he goes. Sui is a DH only, 1 year 8-9 mil. No way both Damon and Sui both come back.
This team is good with most of the pieces in tact…
Despite 1995 and the sour taste that left in Yankees’ fans mouths, Junior is and has always been a classy athlete.
”One of the big topics Wednesday was the federal tax code that could impact fringe benefits for players and executives, including meal per diems and championship rings.”
If the tax code has subsidized per diems for multi-millionaire athletes, something is seriously wrong.
Rishi
November 12th, 2009 at 8:50 am
Is Erica around?????
I was wondering what this meant: ” One of the big topics Wednesday was the federal tax code that could impact fringe benefits for players and executives, including meal per diems and championship rings.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11…..ref=sports
*************
They are saying that these items will now be considered as taxable income.
Do players incorporate themselves?
Doreen
November 12th, 2009 at 9:18 am
Do players incorporate themselves?
********
They might have corporations set up, but ultimately I am pretty sure they all file as individuals. I know entertainers do
Can either Melky or Cano bat #2 if Damon does not come back?
Who bats 5th if Sui is not back?
The Yankees will have a new #2 or #5 hitter next year, maybe both.
Interesting – my per diems are not taxed – is there a reason this would be different for them? Should I be expecting that at some point, too?
Any “gifts” we receive are taxed as bonuses so I understand that part…
“Most top relievers (including the greatest one ever) were starters in college and/or the minors. So what?”
That’s a pretty obvious comment. Up until recently every pitcher was a starter. It’s only been recently that pitchers have been tabbed as relievers coming out of high school. So, yeah, every top reliever was a starter. However, in the few years since Joba started to climb to the majors it has been quite common to identify someone suitable for relief at an early age. Obviously, those who scouted Joba saw starter stuff or he would have been pitching relief in the minors. Don’t you think any good power pitcher starter would dominate in relief? I don’t see anyone turning Josh Beckett into an 8th in reliever — for obvious reasons. I’m not saying that Joba is the next Josh Beckett but he has the potential and the Yankees aren’t going to throw Chamberlain in the pen until they’ve given him a chance to see if he can reach that potential.
Patrick -
Can either Melky or Cano bat #2 if Damon does not come back?
Who bats 5th if Sui is not back?
The Yankees will have a new #2 or #5 hitter next year, maybe both.
-Neither one can bat #2. Cano and Melky have no dicipline to bat in the 2 slot.
As far as who bats 2 or 5th. Thats all up in the air right now.
Erica -
Thanks – just wondering. I’m just thinking of the fact that they all have payroll of their own – chefs, accountants, housekeepers, groundskeepers, etc.
Tampa’s more likely to keep Crawford and unload Upton. Crawford is their best player and most solid citizen. Upton tends to dog it too much and seems to pick his spots to decide when to hustle. Lack of talent isn’t Upton’s problem…lack of motivation is.
Doreen
November 12th, 2009 at 9:27 am
Erica -
Thanks – just wondering. I’m just thinking of the fact that they all have payroll of their own – chefs, accountants, housekeepers, groundskeepers, etc.
******
People with household help file Schedule H on their 1040s. That gives the IRS their employees compensation and payroll taxes.
A person can deduct their tax prep fees on their Schedule A under misc. deductions (subject to the 2% floor), but actual accounting expenses can be deduced when you file a Schedule C for selfemployed income. Which is probably where an endorsement would be picked up.
In the playoffs, we saw better fastball velocity from Joba, but still not as good as what he was as a reliever in ‘07. It was about equal to his velocity as a starter in ‘08. His slider was still not great. My conclusion is that he is either not at full strength because of the shoulder injury, or because he did not prepare properly last offseason. I would prefer it to be the latter, of course.
I remember a story about Roger Clemens getting in Schilling’s face early in his career because he was not working and preparing hard enough, and wasting his talent. Obviously, Schilling turned it around. Joba needs that same time of intervention, I think. But who to do it?
As far as who bats 2 or 5th. Thats all up in the air right now.
**********************
Derek could always go back to hitting 2nd if the Yankees get a player who can bat leadoff.
Is Montero in the Venezuelan league?
Hope the bandits don’t know how much upside he has…
Erica -
Thanks!
Upton tends to dog it too much and seems to pick his spots to decide when to hustle. Lack of talent isn’t Upton’s problem…lack of motivation is.
——————————————————–
Sound familiar? Paging Mr Cano, Mr Cano please pick up the white courtesy phone.
Rishi
November 12th, 2009 at 9:23 am
Interesting – my per diems are not taxed – is there a reason this would be different for them? Should I be expecting that at some point, too?
Any “gifts” we receive are taxed as bonuses so I understand that part…
————————————————————
Not sure how they can tax per diem. The only way that can be taxed is if it’s declared income and players are writing off road meals as as an job expense on their taxes. Same thing with the miltary. You can’t claim meals, laundry and hotel expenses on your taxes if you get a per diem. Not sure why rings would be taxed unless it reaches a certain amount and it’s a gift tax.
Whether Joba Chamberlain should be in the rotation or the pen?
Really people?
Even if you still somehow feel passionately about this subject, what is there left to say?
doncha know
November 12th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Upton tends to dog it too much and seems to pick his spots to decide when to hustle. Lack of talent isn’t Upton’s problem…lack of motivation is.
——————————————————–
Sound familiar? Paging Mr Cano, Mr Cano please pick up the white courtesy phone.
————————————————————
You’ve been sniffing glue again, haven’t you?
New thread
Teixeira & Jeter should be getting their Silver Sluggers to go with their Gold Gloves today.
ARod´s got a shot but the month off probably puts Longoria in front.
Cano´s in the mix but Aaron Hill should get it.
It’s not about whether or not there is anything left to say about Joba’s role. It’s about having the discussion based on facts rather than feelings. Francesa, for example, has a fact-free opinion.
Ok I thought long and hard about Granderson. I like him a lot but I pass on him unless it is a Swisher 09 deal. If Detroit is looking at this as a salary dump then OK offer some b level prospects perhaps guys that can not be protected in the Rule V draft. I just cant get over the fact that his batting avg. against lefties is that low and he strikes 140+ times a year. Again if its a Swisher type deal I would do it in a heartbeat but if it means something like Joba and Ajax I would prefer to stay put. As far as Edwin Jackson, he is someone to look at. Someone on the Yankees needs to really do there homework and figure out what was up with his second half.
I agree on Granderson. He is a talented player but strikes out way too much and is terrible against lefties. Would much rather resign Damon for a year and leave Melky in CF and give Austin Jackson a shot some time next season. And if Jackson is going to be dealt, should include him in a package for a Halladay or another pitcher.