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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Preparing for the Rule 5 draft (part two)

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 12, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

This morning we looked at the Yankees minor leaguers who are eligible for the Rule 5 draft for the first time. This afternoon, we’ll look at the guys were were eligible last season and will be eligible again. This list does not include players like Eric Duncan who would have to be added to the 40-man to avoid free agency. Unlike last year – when Eric Hacker and Wilkin de La Rosa were added for just that reason — I’m not sure the Yankees have any first-time minor league free agents who are especially strong candidates for 40-man spots this time around.

The Yankees do, however, have a lot of repeat Rule 5 eligible players who have significantly boosted their stock in the past 12 months. All of these players were eligible for the Rule 5 last year and remain in the organization.

Pitchers: J.B. Cox, Grant Duff, Alan Horne, Zack Kroenke, Ivan Nova, Jonathan Ortiz, Romulo Sanchez, Josh Schmidt, Brett Smith, Kevin Whelan, Eric Wordekemper
Catchers: Kyle Anson, P.J. Pilittere
Infielders: Reegie Corona, Chris Malec
Outfielders: James Cooper

There are a lot of things to like about the position players on this list, but the only one that stands out as a real Rule 5 candidate is Reegie Corona. He was one of four Yankees taken in last year’s Rule 5, but Seattle ultimately decided not to keep him as a utility infielder. He can play second, third and short — his best position is second base — and he has good speed, but Triple-A gave him some very real problems this season. To me, Corona ranks behind Kevin Russo and Eduardo Nunez in the race for infield 40-man spots, but there are plenty who disagree with me. Corona might be the most versatile and possibly the fastest of the bunch. He could be protected, and if not, he could be drafted.

The best returning candidates, though, are pitchers. Especially Ivan Nova, Romulo Sanchez, Grant Duff, Zach Kroenke and Kevin Whelan.

I believe Nova will be added. That’s strictly a guess, but he really came into his own out of the Triple-A rotation this year. Nova has long been touted for his raw stuff, but he wasn’t ready for the big leagues when the Padres took him in last year’s Rule 5. He works down in the zone with his fastball and can go to both his changeup and curveball to generate ground balls. He has continued to pitch well in winter ball. The Yankees got him back after last year’s Rule 5 draft, but I don’t think they would be as lucky this time around.

Sanchez is an interesting case. The Yankees got him mid-season from Pittsburgh, where he had some major league time out of the bullpen. The Yankees began using him out of the Triple-A rotation and he was able to throw 97 mph into the fifth inning. To go with that fastball, he also has a nice changeup and a slider. Sanchez would have been an easy choice to leave unprotected, but he was so good in the last month or so that I wonder if the Yankees figured out some things with him and now see him as potential help in New York.

Duff, Kroenke and Whelan are relievers. Kroenke is a lefty who wasn’t given much of a chance in big league camp after the Marlins took him in last year’s Rule 5, but he was outstanding with Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. None of his pitches is overwhelming, but he mixes a fastball, splitfinger and slider and put up great Triple-A numbers. He pitched well enough to earn a 40-man spot, but I wonder if the Yankees might take a chance on him getting through the Rule 5 because they already have Phil Coke, Damaso Marte and Mike Dunn as left-handed relievers on the 40-man. I believe Kroenke will be drafted if left exposed, I just wonder if it’s a risk the Yankees might be willing to take.

Duff and Whelan both throw hard from the right side (Duff probably maxes out a little higher). I knew next to nothing about Duff until he climbed from High-A to Triple-A this season, getting his fastball into the upper 90s. He burst onto the map and the Yankees responded by sending him to the Arizona Fall League, where he’s continued to pitch well. My guess is there was no consideration to putting him on the 40-man last year, but there will be strong consideration this year. Whelan is one of the players added from Detroit in the Gary Sheffield trade. He’s long had a reputation for not throwing strikes, but he did a good job of it after a promotion to Triple-A this season. One bad outing throws his total walk total out of proportion, but most nights he was able to throw strikes. He was Scranton/Wilkes-Barre’s closer in the playoffs.

Even if you only casually follow the minor league system, you might know the names J.B. Cox and Alan Horne as once highly touted prospects who have been slowed by injury. Cox has fallen far off the map — possibly to the verge of retirement — while Horne has taken some steps forward after a series of injuries. I’ve been a huge believer in Horne since I saw him in the spring of 2008, but I don’t believe he’ll be protected or taken in the Rule 5. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him get to New York, though.

———

The total number of players protected depends on how many roster spots the Yankees can open. Two came open with Freddy Guzman and Josh Towers being outrighted. There are other non-tender candidates who could open spots as well.

Personally, I would put Austin Jackson, Ivan Nova, Eduardo Nunez and Kevin Russo at the top of the list of players to protect. As for the other candidates, I might put Grant Duff and Romulo Sanchez next in line because of their fastballs, but those two, Zach Kroenke, Kevin Whelan and Kanekoa Texeira are pretty close in my mind. Depends on the Yankees internal preferences. There’s no way they’ll have room to protect them all. Something will have to give, one way or another.

 
 

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149 Responses to “Preparing for the Rule 5 draft (part two)”

  1. CR9 November 12th, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    CR9
    November 12th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
    G. Love

    I have no sentamentality toward DeJesus. I dont care if he’s from Rutgers or Shmutgers.

    He would be nice in the Number 2 hole if there is no Damon. He has a career 358 OBP. He might even be able to play CF, I think he has in the past. He has speed, and a bit of power.

    I am most concerned with our Number 2 hole next season. If Damon does not come back, it could go to a signing or trade of ours, or in house, Swish, Cano, or Melky. I’d rather have Cano if that situation arises, but Dejesus would make a nice fit.

  2. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    I think they’ll open up another spot by outrighting Chris Garcia, Edwar Ramirez and/or Jonathan Albaladejo off the 40 man roster.

    I would say that first, the Yankees will try to make a trade with some of those guys (like they did last year with Jeff Marquez) but assuming none of them are moved I would take the following:

    Nova
    Nunez
    Russo
    Jackson
    Sanchez
    Duff
    Kronke – you can never have too many LH relief options.

    With Ramiro Pena around I think they’ll be comfortable letting a team take Reegie Corona

  3. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 12th, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    Unless suddenly all players in the league that strike out a lot are the same players then the comparison of Soriano and Granderson are not at all alike.

    Soriano walks half as much as Granderson and sees much less pitches per plate attempt. Granderson is also a superior defender while Soriano is a below average defender. Yeah,so aside from the SO, they are not similar at all.

    Granderson had one bad OBP year. You do not judge players based on one season. The two seasons before he had OBP in the 360s. Soriano’s highest career OBP was .351.

    So, why is Granderson not a great fit for this lineup. Is it because he has power, is a very patient hitter, works pitchers, has speed, and plays great defense?

  4. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    CR9,

    I completely agree with you. People get seduced by Curtis Granderson’s 30 HR, but the Yankees don’t need a thumper, they need a number 2 hitter who can move Jeter along and set the table for Tex and Alex – that’s DeJesus.

  5. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 12th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    Chip to compare David DeJesus and Johnny Damon is absolutely ridiculous. DeJesus is a better fielder but you lose a TON on offense. That is an extremely stupid comparison. An OF with Damon and Melky is a HUGE upgrade over DeJesus and Melky

  6. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    LGY -

    Curtis Granderson’s career OBP is .344 (DeJesus nearly 20 points higher for the sake of comparison)only twice has he had an OBP higher than .350

    And last year wasn’t even his worst OBP year, in 5 seasons he’s had OBP of:

    .314
    .335
    .361
    .365
    .327

  7. tex's friend November 12th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    An OF with Damon and Melky is a HUGE upgrade over DeJesus and Melky

    __

    agreed, but how bout a melky/granderson LF/CF?

    i think that is an upgrade over all.

  8. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 12th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    Oh, so we want David DeJesus in the 2 hole so he can move Jeter along and set the table? Yeah that makes sense. How about we just put a pitcher in the 2 hole so everytime Jeter gets on base he can just bunt him over. Johnny Damon is a great hitter and that is why he was in the 2 hole. The Yankees won the world series with a great hitter in the 2 hole. Not a below average hitter.

  9. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    LGY -

    I don’t lose a ton of offense going from Damon to DeJesus.

    1. Damon benefits big time from the short porch vs. DeJesus playing in KC

    2. Damon benefits from being in a position where he’s going to see pitches to hit – the Royals were a horrible offensive team – why would you throw DeJesus pitches to hit? Between Jeter and Tex he’s going to be given a lot more fastballs because teams won’t want to put him on base ahead of the big bats.

  10. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    Tex,

    I don’t disagree – Granderson is a better player than DeJesus but I’m not willing to give up what it would take to get him. The extra offense (read HR) and defensive upgrade is gravy to a team that doesn’t really need it. I’m not parting with two of our top prospects and probably at least one other guy for gravy.

    LGY,

    Johnny Damon’s career OBP: .355
    David DeJesus .358

    Wouldn’t exactly say he’s a zero up there.

  11. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    The only offensive thing that the Yankees might lose between Damon and DeJesus is HR and as I said, that is debatable since we don’t know what DeJesus would do if he was in this lineup playing in this park.

  12. GreenBeret7 November 12th, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    For those that missed the totals from the AFL yesterday:

    Brandon Laird: 2-5 with a double (6) and a 2 run homer (6). He’s hitting .321 with a league tying 24 RBI and 2nd in homers.

    Kennedy got knocked around in 4.1 innings. 7 hits, 4 runs (earned), 1 walk, 4 strikeouts.

    Dunn was racked up in .2 innings for 2 hits, 2 runs (earned), 1 walk, 2 strikeouts, 1 homer allowed.

  13. viridiana November 12th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    Horne and Humberto Sanchez were once big-time prospects, now on the mend. Hard to understand how these guys could be exposed just to protect the likes of a Duff or K. Texeira, neither of whom have ever been higly ranked by independent talent appraisers. Yess, Duff throws hard but he seems to have little control or little in the way of secondary pitches. KT does not seem exceptional. Reliever records in AA can be very misleading, as Yanks have found over the years.

  14. tex's friend November 12th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    chip, i dont think it will take as much as you think it will to get granderson. looks to me that they are trying desperately to drop salary. yankees can even offer a salary dump and get ordonez or something like that. maggs power may be gone, but he still hits for average.

  15. Joltin Joe November 12th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    Chad – Great insight on the minor leaguers in the system and you’ve given me a good “101″ on the state of the farm system. Keep up the great work!!!

  16. GreenBeret7 November 12th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    I’d be more inclined to drop Dunn off of the roster and keep De La Rosa on it. Dunn’s walks are just out of control. He can strike out two an inning, but, he gives up a hit and a walk an inning.

  17. tex's friend November 12th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    so laird is a 1b/3b. Looks promising but where is he going to play? those bases are locked for the next 7 years.

    move to shortstop maybe for post-jeter?

  18. Pat M. November 12th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    GB, I would be overwhelmed if the Bronx Bombers could actually obtain both Granderson & Edwin Jackson..Jackson is on the cusp of being a major big league pitcher…..I think he tired down the stretch…….Curtis is the type of player & person who would just jump up a level playing in Pinstripes…..Think Paulie O……

  19. aado November 12th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    Chad – Great stuff. This is what we pay you the big bucks for. Thanks!

  20. vin November 12th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    GB7,

    Hope you had a good Veteran’s Day. There were a lot of folks on here yesterday sending you well wishes and thanks… consider me among them.

  21. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 12th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    According to fangraphs David DeJesus value with the bat this year: a whopping 2.9 (career high 12.9)

    Johnny Damon: 25.3 (career high since 2002)

    Curtis Granderson: 6.0 (career high 36.4!)

    There is most definitely a HUGE difference between David DeJesus and Johnny Damon. As well as Curtis Granderson

  22. CR9 November 12th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    I’m not saying I would rather have Dejesus over Damon.

    I said if Damon is too much or we do not get him.

    Also, is Granderson that good? 30 HR can be misleading. For that matter, how many people criticize Cano despite his 25 HR. I’ve heard and read about Granderson being unable to hit LHP. Why would we want a guy that costs 26 million over the next 3 years (including his 2 million buyout for 2013) that cannot hit LHP?

  23. GreenBeret7 November 12th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    vin
    November 12th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
    GB7,

    Hope you had a good Veteran’s Day. There were a lot of folks on here yesterday sending you well wishes and thanks… consider me among them.

    ————————————————————

    Thanks for the kind thoughts, Vin. Yeah, I read the other messages.

  24. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    Tex,

    I don’t think Detroit is nearly as desperate to move him as we might be led to believe by the press. I think it’s more a “sure, we’re trying to cut some payroll and we’ll consider moving him in the right package” deal. But if Detroit doesn’t like the deal on the table Dombrowski’s not a fool – he knows that Magglio, Guillen, Robertson, Bonderman are all coming off his books.

  25. champ809 November 12th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    Dejesus is Damon when Damon was in Kansas City…DeJesus isn’t a stud nor an allstar but would be a very good productive stopgap player for the next two years at cheap money…he’s a career .286 hitter who would certainly benefit hitting behind Jeet and in front of Tex and Arod and he’s a very good hitter w/risp…i would bet in NY next year he would do this

    .310/17hrs/110runs/90rbis/.380obp/.485slg/35 doubles/8 triples and a very good much improved defensive LF for $4mil

    and we still have Hughes,AJax,Romine,Montero,Melancon,DRob in the system

  26. tex's friend November 12th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    he knows that Magglio, Guillen, Robertson, Bonderman are all coming off his books.

    ___

    not this year. i know some of it is wishful thinking, but it’s worth a shot. cashman is a smooth negotiator when he wants to be.

    Also, granderson is not good vs. lefties. thats been true, but it doesnt mean with a new hitting coach, they cant work on it.

  27. GreenBeret7 November 12th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    tex’s friend
    November 12th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
    so laird is a 1b/3b. Looks promising but where is he going to play? those bases are locked for the next 7 years.

    move to shortstop maybe for post-jeter?

    ————————————————————

    He can play both spots and possibly learn a corner outfield, but, he’s an impressive hitter with bigtime power. Right now, he’s one of the best good average big power bats in the sysyem. He doesn’t strike out and has decent speed. He’s not a throwaway.

  28. Laura - "Sorry Jimmy, but we're not the Mets!!" November 12th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    “But if Detroit doesn’t like the deal on the table Dombrowski’s not a fool – ….”

    You sure about that? He let Leyland play Ordonez enough so that his option kicked in. 18mil next season for a washed up Ordonez. That’s gotta hurt.

  29. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 12th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    You do not get DeJesus if Damon walks because that is a huge downgrade. David DeJesus is an above average fielder with AT BEST an average bat. You can not have two average bats in your OF.

    How can 30 HR be misleading? Granderson is not at all like Cano. He works the count more than anyone on the Yankees aside from Nick Swisher and he walks more than twice as much as Cano. In YS Granderson may be able to reach 40 HRs. His home ballpark kills him. He has great numbers on the road and YS would be perfect for him. Not to mention he is a superior defender in CF (a much more important position than LF).

    Sure he struggles against LH. You face RHP the VAST majority of the time. When we are facing a real tough lefty like Lester he takes a day off. He needs a day off sometime, so you do it against really tough LHP. Not to mention KLong is a great hitting coach and I am sure could help him with that. Apparently he also tweaked his swing this year and hit way more fly balls than he normally does and the same time as running into tough luck with BAIP. KLong can work on that as well to get him back to his 07-08 form. 25 million over 3 years for Curtis Granderson would be a great contract for the Yankees.

  30. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    CR9

    I agree completely.

    Soriano routinely hit 30+ HR and I don’t think any of us doubted he was a flawed player. Cano hits 25 HR and drives us nutty with the number of wasted at bats that he has. Granderson, I believe, would be a similar situation.

    Comparing him to DeJesus is foolish – they’re different players. Granderson is a low average high HR guy and DeJesus is a line to line hitter with better discipline.

    The point I’ve been trying to make all day it seems is that

    A) the Yankees don’t need a player like Granderson
    B) the Yankees certainly don’t need him at the probable price
    C) Considering that – David DeJesus is a suitable alternative who gives the Yankees exactly what they need/want/desire from the number 2 spot in the lineup.

  31. ty November 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    LGY,

    Would those players have the same numbers in the KC lineup? Also how much better would DDJ fare with Tex and Arod behind him while staring at a 314ft short porch? BTW, Granderson has benefitted from having a potent lineup behind him as well.I like Granderson a lot and would welcome him on the Yankees, but that would be based on wants as opposed to needs. If the Yankees are to replace the bats of Damon/Matsui, they need to replace their respective skillsets as opposed to their numbers. Replacing numbers netted the Yankees six years of Giambi.

  32. tex's friend November 12th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    He can play both spots and possibly learn a corner outfield, but, he’s an impressive hitter with bigtime power. Right now, he’s one of the best good average big power bats in the sysyem. He doesn’t strike out and has decent speed. He’s not a throwaway.

    __

    Agreed, i was just thinking where he would play on our team. Maybe RF/LF. In a few years we will look like this:

    Montero
    Romine
    Tex
    Cano
    Jeter
    ARod
    Laird
    AJax
    Pena

    ???

    It looks real promising for our future.

  33. charlestonchew November 12th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    Someone mentioned this the other day, but Damon has never benefitted from the short porch in right. His shortest homerun, if I remember correctly, was 347 feet.

    He was hitting them far out. Not just over the wall

  34. charlestonchew November 12th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    And by never i mean this season

  35. champ809 November 12th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    Damon’s bat value this year was due to his HOME #’s…away from home this year his #’s are;

    .284/7hrs/.349obp/446slg% on the road HE IS DAVID DEJESUS

  36. Jerkface November 12th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    What makes Granderson a low average high power hitter? 1 season?

    Dejesus and Granderson’s career batting averages are .010 points apart

  37. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    LGY -

    If Curtis Granderson was on the Yankees last year his OBP would have been dead last – Melky had the lowest OBP of any regular at .336

    Damon last year – .282 .365 24 HR 82 RBI
    DeJesus last year – .281 .344 13 HR 71 RBI

  38. GreenBeret7 November 12th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Pat M.
    November 12th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
    GB, I would be overwhelmed if the Bronx Bombers could actually obtain both Granderson & Edwin Jackson..Jackson is on the cusp of being a major big league pitcher…..I think he tired down the stretch…….Curtis is the type of player & person who would just jump up a level playing in Pinstripes…..Think Paulie O……

    ————————————————————

    Like you, PAT, I love Jackson’s arm and youth. I can’t think of a better group of pitchers for him to learn from with Sabathia, Pettitte and Burnett. That’s really all he needs. He made vast improvements over his 2008 season, considering it was only his 3rd full season as a starter. Hard to believe that he’s only 1 year older than Kennedy and 2 years older than Chamberlain and Hughes.

  39. champ809 November 12th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    CharlestonChew

    there is athing called the eyetest maybe his avg homerun distance is 347ft. because he’s hit 2-3 in the upper deck but he hit at least 10 home homers that JUST got over the wall in right corner

  40. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 12th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    ty
    November 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
    LGY,
    Would those players have the same numbers in the KC lineup? Also how much better would DDJ fare with Tex and Arod behind him while staring at a 314ft short porch? BTW, Granderson has benefitted from having a potent lineup behind him as well.I like Granderson a lot and would welcome him on the Yankees, but that would be based on wants as opposed to needs. If the Yankees are to replace the bats of Damon/Matsui, they need to replace their respective skillsets as opposed to their numbers. Replacing numbers netted the Yankees six years of Giambi.

    —————————-

    So how does DeJesus replace their skillsets. He has minimal power and does not walk a lot. David DeJesus brings the exact opposite of what Matsui and Damon bring. He brings very good defense with average bat.

  41. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    Jerkface -

    I would say that having 3 out of 5 seasons with OBP under .340 (and 2 under .330) makes him a poor OBP guy.

    Also, as the person who ripped my idea of Brad Hawpe because he “can’t hit lefties” I suggest you take a look at Curtis Granderson’s career .200 BA against southpaws.

  42. Jim Mason November 12th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    Who cares about the rule 5 draft? Few if any minor leaguers will ever make an impact on the Yankees. They would rather get Granderson than wait to see what Jackson turns into. They’ll get Halladay or another pitcher instead of giving Hughes or Joba a real chance.

    It really is a waste of time to follow these guys. Any other minor leagyue pitchers will be bbrushed aside when they get this latest Cuban guy in a few weeks.

  43. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    LGY -

    You don’t NEED power to be a productive number 2 hitter. And, what about a half dozen of us have said over and over again, is that based on the stadium and lineup DeJesus’s power numbers would uptick – just like Damon’s did when he came here from Boston.

  44. GreenBeret7 November 12th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    Chip
    November 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
    CR9

    I agree completely.

    Soriano routinely hit 30+ HR and I don’t think any of us doubted he was a flawed player. Cano hits 25 HR and drives us nutty with the number of wasted at bats that he has. Granderson, I believe, would be a similar situation.

    Comparing him to DeJesus is foolish – they’re different players. Granderson is a low average high HR guy and DeJesus is a line to line hitter with better discipline.

    ————————————————————

    He had one low average year and is still a .275 career hitter. You would do better sticking to facts to try making your case.

  45. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 12th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    How about this proposition? Chip can live in his fantasy world where he thinks DeJesus is even close to the same level of as Damon or Granderson.

    He can continue to live in this fantasy world because there is maybe a .01% chance David DeJesus will be starting in LF for the Yankees on opening day.

  46. Jim Mason November 12th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    Everyone talks about Damon like he is the worst guy to ever play the outfield. He’s not that bad. Even in decline he is still better than Swisher, and except for throwing, is still better than Matsui ever was. Plus how many runs does he cost per year in the outfield? 5? He more than makes up for it with his bat. a two-year deal would be fine for Damon.

  47. CR9 November 12th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    Curtis has a .327 OBP. Is that what you really want? Do we really need the 1 HR every 5.5 games he provides in exchange for his OBP. What we need for a number 2 spot is a guy who can get on base, hit to all fields, with just a bit of power, at a reasonable price. Where would Curtis bat?

    LGY, you are saying that KLong can turn around Granderson. Why can he not help Dej. improve? IMO, Curtis made a decision to hit more fly balls, so his low average and BABIP is lowered by his choice to swing for the fences. If that is what he is going to do, and in the New YS, maybe pitchers will pitch him differently so he would have more trouble hitting HRs.

    Like Chip said, imagine a guy who already has a career 358 OBP and whose power has slowly increased over the years, albeit very slowly, working with KLong, hitting behind Jeter and in front of Tex.

    Also, I would rather have Alex bat 3rd and Tex 4th, depending on if Matsui is back. It worked all year long with Tex 3rd and Al 4th, so Joe would be unlikely to change something that worked…

  48. Phil November 12th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Granderson over the last three years including his down 2009 is third among all CF’s in wOBA, and the top three are a tight bunch, Beltran, Sizemore, Granderson.

    Yanks should grab Granderson, then see if they can build a deal for Halladay that doesn’t include Montero, Hughes, or Joba.

  49. lordbyron November 12th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Chad – Nice work with this piece along with your previous post -
    good stuff, please keep it up!

  50. champ809 November 12th, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    the improvement in Jackson was partly due to pitching against inferior lineups…you can make a case that the best lineup in the AL Central is not as good or deep as the worst in the AL East…pitching in this division is a different animal all together that cannot be discounted i like Jackson but i wouldn’t give up Hughes or Joba to get him

  51. CR9 November 12th, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    I better rephrase that. He has a career 344 OBP, 327 last year, the year in which he decided he was going to swing for fly balls.

  52. Jerkface November 12th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    I would say that having 3 out of 5 seasons with OBP under .340 (and 2 under .330) makes him a poor OBP guy.

    Also, as the person who ripped my idea of Brad Hawpe because he “can’t hit lefties” I suggest you take a look at Curtis Granderson’s career .200 BA against southpaws.

    You didn’t say OBP, you said ‘low average’ and compared him to Dejesus as a ‘high average line to line hitter’ when they are actually quite comparable in batting average for their career.

    And Brad Hawpe brings nothing to the table other than his bat.

    There is a huge difference between Granderson and Hawpe

    - Granderson will play a premium defensive position excellently
    - Granderson has speed
    - Hawpe can’t field
    - Hawpe would be a DH
    - Our current centerfielders cannot hit lefties, the loss against lefties is already factored in our lineup

    You were talking about replacing Matsui, who kills lefties, with Hawpe, who does not.

    Anyone on to Granderson wants to replace Melky and Gardner with Granderson, which is a huge upgrade. He is better defensively than Melky and better offensively than Gardner. Huge upgrade.

  53. CR9 November 12th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Basically, if we do not get Damon back, Dejesus would be better for the price and the number 2 hole than Curtis, IMO.

  54. Pat M. November 12th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    GB, As you know I watched Jackson come up when he was 19 with the Dodgers……He was an incredible talent…The great Vince Scully ( who’s been around a long time ) thought this kid had a shot of being a Cooperstown candidate once he learned how to pitch………Moving him to Detroit just killed Tampa Bay this season…….I think Jackson just tired down the stretch…….This kid is on the verge,at the doorstep of just exploding as a dominat frontline starter……

  55. Jerkface November 12th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    I better rephrase that. He has a career 344 OBP, 327 last year, the year in which he decided he was going to swing for fly balls.

    His drop in OBP was entirely predicated on his drop in batting average. This is a nick Swisher conundrum. He had a .078 ISOD, put that with a normal batting average and his OBP shoots up to a respectable level.

  56. ty November 12th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    LGY,

    DDJ allows Girardi to manage the Yankees aggressively. He will move runners along. He will use all fields when he hits negating any thought of a defensive shift. He doesn’t try to play above his abilities and does a nice job w/RISP. Furthermore, his low SO totals allows hit/run options which puts pressure on the opposing defense.

    Damon is not a prolific BB guy and never has been as that is not truly his game. What he does do is get the job done by putting the ball in play and hitting what the pitcher gives him. DeJesus has similar skills and could only benefit by being in the Yankee lineup.

  57. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 12th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    CR9
    November 12th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
    Curtis has a .327 OBP. Is that what you really want? Do we really need the 1 HR every 5.5 games he provides in exchange for his OBP. What we need for a number 2 spot is a guy who can get on base, hit to all fields, with just a bit of power, at a reasonable price. Where would Curtis bat?

    —————————–

    Because maybe you are judging a player based on one below average year for him? You do not judge players based on one year. If you did that than Robinson Cano and Nick Swisher are absolutely awful baseball players because they each have had one really bad year. Before last year Granderson had an OBP in the 360s for 2 straight years. If you can not see that David DeJesus has a below average bat you are not looking at all the stats.

    In his best year DeJesus posted a 12.9 for value with his bat. This year he posted a 2.9 value and has twice provided NEGATIVE value with his bat. Again, he is an average offensive player on his best day.

    Curtis Granderson posted a 36.4 and 23.7 in consecutive years on offense. Last year in a down year he still outperformed DeJesus by twice as much offensively with a 6.0.

    David DeJesus would be a HUGE downgrade offensively for the NYY.

  58. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    LGY

    How about this proposition? Chip can live in his fantasy world where he thinks DeJesus is even close to the same level of as Damon or Granderson.

    How about you learn to comprehend what you read – I never once said DeJesus is on the same level as Granderson. I said they are completely different players and that while Granderson has wonderful power that is not what the Yankees would need to add if Damon left.

    As for whether or not DeJesus is on the same level as Damon – they are VERY similar and just like Johnny’s power numbers increased when he came to NY from Boston (he hit 56 HR in four years in Boston vs. 67 HR in four years in NY) I believe DeJesus would see his HR production increase as well.

  59. champ809 November 12th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    Halladay will be a FREE AGENT NEXT YEAR….it only takes a check then guys wake up?
    everybody is worried that the Red Sox will trade for him and then sign him but if they sign Halladay then the will definitely let Beckett walk so one of those two pitchers will be a FA next year

  60. CR9 November 12th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    Respectable level.

    I guess a 344 OBP is okay. And it’s not much less than Dejesus’ 358 career OBP, but like someone else noted, maybe hitting in this lineup, in this stadium, will help him improve. I certainly do not want a strikeout machine like Curtis and his 140 SO and 70 BBs in the number 2 spot, especially with the lack of hitting LHP.

  61. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 12th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Phil
    November 12th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
    Granderson over the last three years including his down 2009 is third among all CF’s in wOBA, and the top three are a tight bunch, Beltran, Sizemore, Granderson.

    —————————-

    He look! Someone provided valuable statistics when talking about Curtis Granderson. What a novel idea.

    I will take that over any nonsense about him moving runners over and putting pressure on the defense. Thank you. I know feel sane again.

  62. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Jerkface -

    But you’re not replacing Melky/Gardner with Granderson. You’re replacing Damon with Granderson and moving Melky/Gardner to LF. Their bats will still be there. So now you’ve got three guys in the lineup (Swisher, Melky, Granderson) who are probably going to put up BA in the .250 range and only one of them (Swisher) is going to give you a high OBP.

    On top of that – to get Granderson you’re likely removing Austin Jackson from the system and either Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain as well.

  63. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 12th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    As for whether or not DeJesus is on the same level as Damon – they are VERY similar and just like Johnny’s power numbers increased when he came to NY from Boston (he hit 56 HR in four years in Boston vs. 67 HR in four years in NY) I believe DeJesus would see his HR production increase as well.

    —————————

    8,00000,00000000,00000,000000 time I have posted this.

    2009 value offensively

    David DeJesus: 2.9

    Johnny Damon: 25.3

    That is reallllly close

  64. champ809 November 12th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    Moving Edwin Jackson to Detroit is not what killed the Rays no bullpen/closer is what killed the Rays….the fact is that Wade Davis,Niemann,Price are all better pitcher than Jackson

  65. CR9 November 12th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    Ahh, you’re probably right about Curtis. But if he sticks with his decision to swing for fly balls, then this past year was not an aberration. He might get 30-40 HRs playing his home games in YS, but his strikeouts and LHP problem would still remain.

    For the price, 5 million for one year, as opposed to 3 years for 26 million, I’d take the stopgap 5 million, with better free agents to be available in years to come.

  66. Nick in SF November 12th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    I love arguments about fantasy trades. :)

    Granderson would be awesome!

    Granderson would be awful!

    Granderson would be adequate!

    Granderson will be absent!

    DeJesus would be delightful!

    DeJesus would be disasterous!

    DeJesus would be Damon-lite!

    DeJesus will be distant.

  67. Laura - "Sorry Jimmy, but we're not the Mets!!" November 12th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    “Everyone talks about Damon like he is the worst guy to ever play the outfield. He’s not that bad.”

    He may not be THAT bad, but he had some bad moments this year. Remember when he almost threw the ball into the stands? This was certainly not his best year defensively.

    If Heyman is right and Damon wants a 4 year deal, he will not be in pinstripes next year.

  68. champ809 November 12th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    and for the 8th millionth time that is an inflated reading on Damon based on his hime stats….away from Yankee Stadium Damon and DeJesus are comparable players and that is the problem with signing Damon to what Boras is looking for…if you put Dejesus inthe 2 hole for the Yanks next year i’d bet that you would get similar production

  69. Jerkface November 12th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    But you’re not replacing Melky/Gardner with Granderson. You’re replacing Damon with Granderson and moving Melky/Gardner to LF. Their bats will still be there. So now you’ve got three guys in the lineup (Swisher, Melky, Granderson) who are probably going to put up BA in the .250 range and only one of them (Swisher) is going to give you a high OBP.

    On top of that – to get Granderson you’re likely removing Austin Jackson from the system and either Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain as well.

    First of all, you’re making assumptions that are baseless. Granderson and Melky are not candidates to bat .250 next year. Melky batted .270 this year. You’re taking a completely pessimistic argument line to try and make your point. At the same time, what if Granderson posts his .360 OBP with a .280 average and hits 25 bombs, 15 triples, steals 25 bags, and plays elite defense in centeR? What then?

    In any scenario in which I am the yankees and I have just acquired Curtis Granderson, I then acquire a left fielder and a DH.

    Melky or Gardner is the 4th OF or traded.

  70. Doreen November 12th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    Pat M -

    Would you deal Joba in a package for Granderson and Jackson?

  71. CR9 November 12th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    Laura

    Every player loses track of the game situation at one point or another. I’ve seen Jeter start to run off the field with 2 outs. Jorge probably never knows what his batting count is!! That’s not poor defense, that’s being human.

  72. champ809 November 12th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    and agaim if Dombrowski told Cash that he’d have to send Ajax and Phil or Joba Cash would hang up the phone and move on.

  73. champ809 November 12th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    and agaim if Dombrowski told Cash that he’d have to send Ajax and Phil or Joba Cash would hang up the phone and move on.

  74. GreenBeret7 November 12th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    Pat M.
    November 12th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
    GB, As you know I watched Jackson come up when he was 19 with the Dodgers……He was an incredible talent…The great Vince Scully ( who’s been around a long time ) thought this kid had a shot of being a Cooperstown candidate once he learned how to pitch………Moving him to Detroit just killed Tampa Bay this season…….I think Jackson just tired down the stretch…….This kid is on the verge,at the doorstep of just exploding as a dominat frontline starter……

    ————————————————————

    He’s still learning the art of pitching and a guy like Sabathia or Pettitte/Rivera could really get him polished up nicely.

    I’m not buying the crap that Jackson is just an NL or AL Central pitcher. There are a few, but, he ain’t one of them. I couldn’t believe Tampa gave him away last year, either, since their starters were sort of risky with Shields and Sonnenstein.

  75. Jerkface November 12th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    Also none of you know what the trade value is for Granderson, so assuming we lose Ajax / Hughes / Joba for him is absurd. It could end up being a Nick Swisher filching. Or we could just not trade for him.

  76. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    LGY -

    Damon: Had Derek Jeter batting in front of him

    DeJesus: Had Coco Crisp batting in front of him

    Damon: Had Mark Teixeira batting behind him

    DeJesus: Had Alex Gordon/Mark Teahen batting behind him

    That is why Damon’s value was so much higher – he had someone in front of him to drive in and someone behind him to drive him in.

  77. vin November 12th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    “Moving Edwin Jackson to Detroit is not what killed the Rays no bullpen/closer is what killed the Rays….the fact is that Wade Davis,Niemann,Price are all better pitcher than Jackson”

    They didn’t trade Jackson for those pitchers, though. They traded him for a guy who didn’t give them much at all this year(Joyce).

    Its hard to argue that the Rays wouldn’t have been better this year with a rotation of Garza, Shields, Jackson, Niemann and Price.

  78. ADam November 12th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    If i’m not mistaken… rather than a few diamonds in the rough.. not much happens when you lose a a player to rule 5?

  79. ty November 12th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    LGY,

    In a perfect scenario the Yankees would resign Damon and Matsui in addition to replacing Melky/Gardner with Granderson. That would make sense in that the Yankees actually get better. However, Granderson is a poor number 2 hitter at present and would actually hurt the Yankees offense in that he would limit their offensive options against the top tier pitchers (via SO) and against LHP in that we would have to replace him with a potentially inferior player both at the plate and in the field. Did you not witness the effects of strong RHP/LHP pitching against so called elite hitters like Ryan Howard or table setters like Figgins?

  80. Phil November 12th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    Buying low on Granderson would be an absolute steal for the Yanks and might allow us to make a good trade for a starter.

  81. Nick in SF November 12th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    “If Heyman is right and Damon wants a 4 year deal, he will not be in pinstripes next year.”

    What does what he wants have to do with what he will eventually accept? You could say that if Damon will only take a 4 year deal he will not be in any major league uniform next year, no?

  82. CR9 November 12th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    Not comparing but Damon an Dejesus, but Chip,

    you forgot Damon played in YS for half his games. Dejesus played for the hapless Royals in which the season is over in March.

  83. Erin November 12th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Nick in SF
    November 12th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
    I love arguments about fantasy trades.

    Granderson would be awesome!

    Granderson would be awful!

    Granderson would be adequate!

    Granderson will be absent!

    DeJesus would be delightful!

    DeJesus would be disasterous!

    DeJesus would be Damon-lite!

    DeJesus will be distant.

    *******************
    Best post of the day. :D

  84. Erica - always OPPC November 12th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Jim Mason
    November 12th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
    Everyone talks about Damon like he is the worst guy to ever play the outfield. He’s not that bad. Even in decline he is still better than Swisher, and except for throwing, is still better than Matsui ever was. Plus how many runs does he cost per year in the outfield? 5? He more than makes up for it with his bat. a two-year deal would be fine for Damon.

    *************

    I like Jim Mason

  85. Pat M. November 12th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Nick in SF…..I’m just going on the record as to what has been the biggest headline rumor that effects the Yanks…..I think getting Granderson would be a solid pickup……And if Edwin Jackson was to be added, I think it only gets better……How many here remember that duel back in May in Detroit between Young Master Hughes & Edwin Jackson……I’m one in the minority here who has the stones to go on the record…….

  86. GreenBeret7 November 12th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    champ809
    November 12th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
    Moving Edwin Jackson to Detroit is not what killed the Rays no bullpen/closer is what killed the Rays….the fact is that Wade Davis,Niemann,Price are all better pitcher than Jackson

    ————————————————————

    Never mind that Davis didn’t show up until the last month and Sonnanstine ended up in the minors, Kazmir was either hurt or ate up a bullpen on every start or that shields was only less than average, huh? You still figure that Jackson wouldn’t have helped? Great thinking.

  87. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    In any scenario in which I am the yankees and I have just acquired Curtis Granderson, I then acquire a left fielder and a DH.

    I wouldn’t have a problem with that scenario unless getting Granderson is cost prohibitive. Cashman and Hal on the other hand might since it would represent a pretty large outlay of cash to upgrade at all three spots.

    My argument against Granderson is that he doesn’t fit in the #2 spot that Damon would be vacating. And also that I really don’t believe you can get him on the cheap.

    Keep in mind when the Yankees got Swisher the White Sox had Carlos Quentin, Jermaine Dye, Konerko, and Thome at LF, RF, 1b, DH – meaning the only place to play Swisher was CF – which was a defensive disaster – so Chicago was looking at either moving him on the cheap or having a 21 mil pinch hitter. That’s not the situation in Detroit where Granderson, if not traded, is going to play everyday for the Tigers.

  88. 86w183 November 12th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    This is great stuff!

    I love Granderson and would love to have him, again depending on the cost. IMO you hit him 2nd against RHP and down in the lineup against LHP. Possibly he and Swisher flip flop depending on the starter.

    A L-R OF of Swish, Granderson and Melky would be a huge improvement defensively and perhaps better offensively depending on Melky’s improvement.

    DeJesus is a nice player, but nothing special in any aspect of the game. A lot more like Melky than Damon or Granderson. Some of you pay way too much attention to OBP. It’s good to have a high OBP, but it is far from the most important stat out there.

  89. sdaf November 12th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Cano would make a good fit in the #2 spot if he was a little more patient at the plate, and drew more walks. As it stands, he has more consistent power than Damon (though they have an equivalent amount of home runs), a higher average, and a lower OBP. The OBP difference is small, but still significant in that Cano isnt a very patient hitter.

  90. Chip November 12th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    CR9 -

    Not forgetting that at all – that’s a huge part of it. I’m the guy who likes DeJesus as a replacement for Damon if he walks.

  91. blake November 12th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    What are the rumors of what prospects it would take to do a granderson/Jackson deal? I’m thinking it would take more than they’ll five up.

  92. CR9 November 12th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    GreenBeret7
    November 12th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
    champ809
    November 12th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
    Moving Edwin Jackson to Detroit is not what killed the Rays no bullpen/closer is what killed the Rays….the fact is that Wade Davis,Niemann,Price are all better pitcher than Jackson

    ————————————————————

    Never mind that Davis didn’t show up until the last month and Sonnanstine ended up in the minors, Kazmir was either hurt or ate up a bullpen on every start or that shields was only less than average, huh? You still figure that Jackson wouldn’t have helped? Great thinking.

    ——

    It’s no coincidence that Edwin’s improvement came with his move away from the AL East. Moving from the AL East to the Central is like moving to the National League. He certainly was not anything special in his previous 2 years with TB.

  93. champ809 November 12th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    vin
    November 12th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
    “Moving Edwin Jackson to Detroit is not what killed the Rays no bullpen/closer is what killed the Rays….the fact is that Wade Davis,Niemann,Price are all better pitcher than Jackson”

    They didn’t trade Jackson for those pitchers, though. They traded him for a guy who didn’t give them much at all this year(Joyce).

    Its hard to argue that the Rays wouldn’t have been better this year with a rotation of Garza, Shields, Jackson, Niemann and Price.
    *******************************************************

    the point was they traded Jackson to get a useful piece because they had better guys(Price,Niemann,Wade Davis) to take his 5th starter role and also because after 400 innings and 2 1/2 years in their rotation he had an era of 5.25…and GB7 you’re crazy if you think that Jackson is a better pitcher than Shields…he’s a harder thrower yes but not a better pitcher

  94. GreenBeret7 November 12th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    What I remember about Jackson was two starts against NYY this year and him losing 2-1 and pitching 7 shutout innings and getting a no decision. Last I looked, NYY could hit a little bit.

  95. Nick in SF November 12th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    Pat M, you should never read any post of mine as a slam against you… your insights go much deeper than the majority on this board.

    But how desperate would Detroit have to be to give up both Granderson and Jackson? And what would it cost to acquire both? The mechanics of such a trade would be very interesting indeed. The odds would seem to be against it happening, but speculation is fun.

  96. MR.OCTOBER November 12th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    adam-
    Do you know who was the biggest diamond ever found in the rule 5 draft (excluding Roberto Clemente)
    Johan Santana

  97. 86w183 November 12th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    To get Jackson I suspect possibly Kennedy and McCallister who I would hate to give up. For Granderson Austin Jackson and Bruney and/or Gaudin?

    Add it up the price will be pretty high.

    Don’t want any part of Ordonez at those $$$

  98. GreenBeret7 November 12th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Colin Curtis is 1-1 with a run scored and a double (7) with 2 RBI (13), hitting .403 in the AFL.

  99. Pat M. November 12th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Doreen…..No way do you trade Joba straight up for just Curtis…..Even with Jackson included in the deal, I want to keep Joba……I do think that if Joba comes to camp in very good shape and condition he’ll prosper…..I still think there’s gold in that arm, the head and heart could be the diffenece though…..Unless it’s about getting Doc Halladay, Joba stays in The Bronx

  100. CR9 November 12th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    GreenBeret7
    November 12th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
    What I remember about Jackson was two starts against NYY this year and him losing 2-1 and pitching 7 shutout innings and getting a no decision. Last I looked, NYY could hit a little bit.

    And 2 starts makes all the difference!

  101. Robbykid November 12th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    Im sure this was addressed, but saw this article on SI.com…Looks as tho the Red Sux are interested in Matusi….

    http://www.fannation.com/truth.....?eref=sihp

  102. Pat M. November 12th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Nick in SF….No intent to rock the sailboat in SF Bay at all…..I understood exactly where you were coming from……..You & Pink Floyd….

  103. champ809 November 12th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    the idea was for Price to take over the 5th starter spot vacated by the trade of Jackson the Rays went into the season with Shields,Kazmir,Garza,Niemann and Sonnanstine with the idea that Price would take over for Sonny in late May…if Edwin Jackson is cooperstown material why in the world would Dombrowski put him on the block when he was his second best starter and without jackson all he has is Verlander and Porcello and a bunch of garbage…and the idea that it’s $ is laughable as Jackson will make about 4mil this year?

  104. Doreen November 12th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    Thanks, Pat M.

    Just wanted a gauge, so to speak, on relative value.

    There are really so few players from other teams that I really covet. I know Granderson isn’t a perfect player, but who is, really?

    And, again, it’s nice to think there may be an alternative out there in case Matsui really does hold out for a team that will let him play the outfield or Damon really would prefer a long-term deal that brings him to retirement, instead of going year to year. It helps to feel less desperate. :)

  105. GreenBeret7 November 12th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    champ809
    November 12th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
    vin
    November 12th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
    “Moving Edwin Jackson to Detroit is not what killed the Rays no bullpen/closer is what killed the Rays….the fact is that Wade Davis,Niemann,Price are all better pitcher than Jackson”

    They didn’t trade Jackson for those pitchers, though. They traded him for a guy who didn’t give them much at all this year(Joyce).

    Its hard to argue that the Rays wouldn’t have been better this year with a rotation of Garza, Shields, Jackson, Niemann and Price.
    *******************************************************

    the point was they traded Jackson to get a useful piece because they had better guys(Price,Niemann,Wade Davis) to take his 5th starter role and also because after 400 innings and 2 1/2 years in their rotation he had an era of 5.25…and GB7 you’re crazy if you think that Jackson is a better pitcher than Shields…he’s a harder thrower yes but not a better pitcher

    ————————————————————

    What useful piece did they get? The legendary Matt Joyce? That useful piece? He couldn’t even beat out Gabe Kapler for a spot.

  106. CR9 November 12th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    GB7

    Actually, just looking at ERA, he performed pretty badly against the Central teams but for the Indians.

    And his ERA was quite good against the the 4 AL East teams not incl. the Rays. But that only came in a total of 7 starts, with 1 start against the Red Sox, him having a 9 ERA. That’s too small a sample size. If he played the AL East all year again, making 14 starts like he did vs. the Central, he could have had years like 2008 and 2007 again.

  107. champ809 November 12th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    GB7

    the Yankees as a team historically have trouble with guys that throw a plus fastball…Aj Burnett spun that fact into an $83 million dollar contract and rookies remember John Lannan lobbing a complete game shutout against us?

  108. ADam November 12th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    @ Mr. October
    adam-
    Do you know who was the biggest diamond ever found in the rule 5 draft (excluding Roberto Clemente)
    Johan Santana”

    Obviously Yes… But those guys would have been Johan and Roberto regardless… and as a former Minor League Employee of the Tampa Bay Rays in the late 90′s.. Evryone knew Josh Hamilton was going to be a star… (No one predicted the drugs of course, but still)

    The last Rule 5 guy we got was some back up first basemen… and I cant even remember his name????… Im just saying prob nothing to get to riled up about… maybe we lose one guy out or the lot and there is a small chance they make any difference whatsoever… Cash will make the right moves, no doubt about it..

  109. champ809 November 12th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    “What useful piece did they get? The legendary Matt Joyce? That useful piece? He couldn’t even beat out Gabe Kapler for a spot.”

    that’s so moronic to say for a person who knows a little something about the game you devalue yourself with comments like this. he’s a 25yr old player who showed good power and he was brought in to play RF he slumped out of the gate Zobrist played his way into an everyday role in RF initially and they sent him down to the minors to take the pressure off. Kapler had nothing to do with it whatsoever

  110. Phil November 12th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    They wouldn’t be getting Granderson to replace Damon, they’d be getting him to upgrade CF. They’d still probably bring back Damon on a 2 year deal. And they wouldn’t bat him at the top of the order, he’d bat in the bottom three or four.

  111. Laura - "Sorry Jimmy, but we're not the Mets!!" November 12th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    “Every player loses track of the game situation at one point or another. I’ve seen Jeter start to run off the field with 2 outs. Jorge probably never knows what his batting count is!! That’s not poor defense, that’s being human.”

    I didn’t mention all of the flubs that Damon has had out in LF this year. That one just sticks in my mind.

  112. MR.OCTOBER November 12th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    Nobody really knows for sure what the asking price is except Cashman (if he even called Detroit that is). If Detroit feels that they need to dump salary Granderson will not cost much. If Detroit is looking at Granderson as a way to retool their minors he will be a lot. The Tigers may be looking at it as a way to get two or three solid players for a guy that was already an All-Star and a potential perennial All-Star, Detroit may be thinking this guy cant hit lefties. They may say lets see exactly how much teams will give to get Curtis from us and if we see something we like a lot we will do it if not oh well. The point is we dont know. We are all going on a reporters article. It may have been the Tigers asking for someone and Granderson was the player wanted in return. We dont know what any of these GMS are thinking.

  113. Erin November 12th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Robbykid
    November 12th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
    Im sure this was addressed, but saw this article on SI.com…Looks as tho the Red Sux are interested in Matusi….

    http://www.fannation.com/truth…..?eref=sihp

    ******************
    Robby-that rumor has already been shot down. If you think about it, it really doesn’t make any sense

  114. Laura - "Sorry Jimmy, but we're not the Mets!!" November 12th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Nick, we don’t know what Damon will settle for. All we can go on is the early reports and if they are to be believed, he wants a 4 year deal. I do not see the Yankees signing him for that long. Just a feeling. Just like I feel that Miles is dead. :wink:

  115. Jim M November 12th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    The last Rule 5 guy we got was some back up first basemen… and I cant even remember his name????…
    ————–

    for the record, that back-up first baseman was Josh Phelps.

  116. Laura - "Sorry Jimmy, but we're not the Mets!!" November 12th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    So in this fantasy world that we all seem to be operating in, what happens to Melky if they get Granderson for CF? Does he move to LF or does he get traded?

  117. ADam November 12th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    Jim M November 12th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    The last Rule 5 guy we got was some back up first basemen… and I cant even remember his name????…
    ————–

    for the record, that back-up first baseman was Josh Phelps.

    Thank You, Jim M… Good thing we went with that Teixeria guy huh???

  118. champ809 November 12th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    great example actually DID YOU KNOW that Zobrist would be what he was this year….Joyce had a very good year in a part time role in Detroit the prior year and tampa flipped what for them in their evaluation an expendable player in Jackson for a cheap young player in Joyce who the felt could solidify Rf and hit 20+ homers and play good defense. Remains to be seen of they were right.

    the fact that Detroit after one year is looking to move a 26yr old Edwin”the next Bob Gibson” Jackson after 1yr with the holes that they have in their staff to me is suspicious

  119. Pat M. November 12th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Who was the player the Yanks passed on in favor of Phelps……………….Josh Hamilton

  120. Nick in SF November 12th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    Laura, we don’t know anything, but we can employ informed speculation. If 4 years is what Damon wants, he can get that from a number of teams — if he signs for $1 million per year.

    If the highest annual salary is more important, he can get that from a smaller number of teams and the highest number will be if he was to agree to a single year.

    So it will be some combination of years and salary that will get the job done. But it should be fairly obvious that he will not get 4 years from any team. So for Boras to float a 4-year goal doesn’t really tell us much about what will happen

    There aren’t too many teams that Damon would fit on, so… Boras’s bluster only disqualifies Damon as a Yankee if you take it literally.

  121. roger(live from Amsterdam) November 12th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    Granderson doesn’t have a big contract or does he??

    This lineup is sick:
    jeter,damon,tex,arod,matsui,posada,cano,swisher,granderson

  122. Laura - "Sorry Jimmy, but we're not the Mets!!" November 12th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    “Who was the player the Yanks passed on in favor of Phelps……………….Josh Hamilton”

    Yeah, but that was an honest mistake. :P

  123. raymagnetic November 12th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    “the fact is that Wade Davis,Niemann,Price are all better pitcher than Jackson”

    Which fact check sheet are YOU using :???:

    Have you looked at Edwin’s numbers for the past four years?

    All trending in the right direction.

  124. crawdaddy November 12th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    “They wouldn’t be getting Granderson to replace Damon, they’d be getting him to upgrade CF. They’d still probably bring back Damon on a 2 year deal. And they wouldn’t bat him at the top of the order, he’d bat in the bottom three or four.”

    I’m not so sure about that…..

  125. MR.OCTOBER November 12th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    roger-
    Went to Amsterdam this summer. What a great place! Vondel Park is like the Cross Bronx Expressway for bikes!!

  126. Dan November 12th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    “Who was the player the Yanks passed on in favor of Phelps……………….Josh Hamilton”

    Pretty sure he was taken before the Yanks’ spot came up.

  127. paul November 12th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    what about matsui and his bad knees? who would outbid the yankees -in terms of years on the contract – for a guy who is solely a DH with knee issues? would the yanks give him, lets say, 2 yrs $30mill and sox 3 yrs $35mill ? i don’t see it

  128. betsy November 12th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    I hate Keith Law, but here’s his opinion:

    Keith Law

    Granderson not really an everyday guy

    “The problem with Granderson is that he’s become a platoon player but is still perceived as an everyday player. Granderson hit just .183/.245/.239 against LHP this year, the second time in three years he failed to crack even a .500 OPS against southpaws. So while he’s strong against right-handed pitchers and plays above-average defense, a team acquiring him needs to consider a right-handed-hitting platoon mate, and be sure that they don’t overpay expecting him to be an everyday guy.”

  129. MR.OCTOBER November 12th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    paul-
    I personally wouldnt touch that contract for Matsui.
    1 year 8-10 million tops. MAYBE with a team option for 2011 b ut thats pushing it. Thats assuming a solid full-time left or centerfielder is acquired. 1 year 8 million is more likely.

  130. roger(live from Amsterdam) November 12th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    mr october

    haha yes we dutch idiots love to ride our bikes.Good to hear you had a great time over here

  131. betsy November 12th, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    If Granderson is so good, then why would you bat him in the bottom third of the lineup? For a hitter like that, we’d give up good prospects? Why?

    I don’t see how obtaining Granderson precludes the Yankees from signing Damon, but Damon had better decide what is and isn’t important to him soon enough. IMO, the Yankees will offer him 1 year, maybe 1 and an option……and it will be a take it or leave it situation. I don’t think there will be much, if any, room for negotiating. If Granderson is here, we’d have Johnny in LF, CG in CF and Swish in RF, with Melky/Gardner as backups. Hopefully, Matsui would be the DH –again, I also think it would be a take it or leave it deal.

    If Johnny is gone and we have Granderson, we would need a LF; there’s no way I want an OF of Melky, Granderson and Swisher.

  132. MR.OCTOBER November 12th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    Roger-
    Had a GREAT TIME!!! Everyone was so nice and friendly. The Dutch are awesome people!

  133. CR9 November 12th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    roger

    did you hear about Enke, the German goalie, and also the Tottenham backup, Cudicini.

    Sad.

  134. roger(live from Amsterdam) November 12th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Mr October

    Thanks!You did al that Amsterdam had to offer?haha

    CR 9

    Very very sad news…what a great goalie he was

    This Cudicini news isn’t final yet is it?

  135. jennifer November 12th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    I think there are way too many temptations in NY for Josh. Heck he fell off the wagon this past off season. The fact that the guy hired someone to watch his every move tell you how close he thinks he is to falling off the ledge again.

  136. Jerkface November 12th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    The yankees passed over Josh Hamilton in the rule 5 2006 draft if by passed over you mean ‘had no shot to draft him because he was taken 15 spots earlier’.

    Consider that the Royals took Joakim Soria over Hamilton or that Tampa chose not to protect Hamilton and took Ryan Goleski who is a RFer

  137. ty November 12th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    I’m petty sure there would be smiles and friendliness aplenty here if the US had those wonderful Dutch coffee shops.

  138. CR9 November 12th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    All I heard was injured pelvis, and fractured wrists. Let’s hope for the best.

  139. Bronx Jeers November 12th, 2009 at 4:05 pm

    Memories of Amsterdam.

    Lots of old bikes and Mercedes cabs.

    Leaving my passport and wallet on the floor of The Rokerij.

    Cash just needs to sign the top 3 free agents and go ring shopping. :wink:

    It worked last year.

  140. Pat M. November 12th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    My error on Josh Hamilton and the Rule 5 draft….I just recall that there was a time when they had a chance to get him of a dime…..However, as pointed out by many, the Rule 5 was not it …..

  141. Jim Mason November 12th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    “If Heyman is right and Damon wants a 4 year deal, he will not be in pinstripes next year.”

    when he left the red sox, wasn’t boras saying he would get a 6 or 7-year deal? settled for 4.

    Even at 3, sign him, If he is no good that third year, Yanks buy him out or trade him or sit on bench, no sweat. If the Pavano deal couldn’t faze them, an extra year for Damon won’t make a difference.

    With A-Rod, Jeter, Sabathia and Teixeira still here, it’s not the time to rebuid. Damon is a proven commodity.

  142. roger(live from Amsterdam) November 12th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    Mercedes caps?haha

  143. sab November 12th, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    regarding david dejesus:

    No offense to DD but the only 2 players the yankees should be interested in on the royals are Zach Grienke and Joakim Soria. Anyone else should be the throw in to a trade for either of the 2.

    The more I think about Granderson the more I like the trade. It backs up the younger and more athletic philosophy. It makes the outfield better. It keeps Holliday and Bay (and their crazy salaries) away from the Yankees.

    If I recall correctly I think AROD once mentioned a few years ago that Granderson was one of the best propects he saw that could become a great player eventually.

  144. Pat M. November 12th, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    Nick in SF…..Thank’s for the compliment, especially coming from you….

  145. Bronx Jeers November 12th, 2009 at 4:27 pm

    “Even at 3, sign him, If he is no good that third year, Yanks buy him out or trade him or sit on bench, no sweat. If the Pavano deal couldn’t faze them, an extra year for Damon won’t make a difference.”

    I think Cash’s new personal motto for Pavano like deals is “Never Again!”

  146. Simon B. November 12th, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    Great job, Chad. Your insight in this is terrific.

  147. jake November 12th, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    A few comments:

    1) JB Cox is already gone, retired.
    2) Zach Kroenke won’t be protected. He was sent to the AFL and performed rather poorly.
    The Yankees will try to trade him.
    3) Curtis Granderson is a platoon player. He isn’t merely mediocre against lefties–he’s terrible. They’d need a good RH bat as a 4th outfielder.
    4)Melky/Granderson/Swisher would be a fine OF, provided they’ve got that good RH 4th guy (Nady or Marlon Byrd would be great….I figure that A-Jax would have to go in the deal for Granderson)
    5) Johnny Damon never had a 20 homerun season until he was 31. He stole a lot of bases when he was younger, and that is what the difference was between a yhounger Johnny Damon and the current David DeJesus. De Jesus will never be a star, but if the Yanks were to get him and stick him in LF and in the #2 spot instead of Damon, the offensive differences, and the differences overall, wouldn’t amount to a hill of beans. DeJesus is a good hitter who would get better in a better lineup at a better hitter’s ballpark.

  148. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Montero Fanaticus Primus November 12th, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    Hey look, I’m famous! http://bit.ly/2H5r49

  149. Brad Rabern November 13th, 2009 at 2:19 am

    What is the status on Humberto Sanchez? Is he not subject to the rule 5 draft? Is he now a 6-year minor league free agent? Do you see him being placed back on the 40-man roster? He had a very good 2nd half this year and was the “prize” of the Sheffield trade a few years ago.


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