Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 12, 2009 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
After three days of GM Meetings in Chicago, Brian Cashman was in no different position on Wednesday than when he arrived on Monday. As I wrote in today’s paper, the Yankees’ general manager had some discussions about the trade market but did not meet with a single agent. The Yankees most significant move was to outright Freddy Guzman and Josh Towers into free agency.
Cashman will now meet with his scouts and various other decision makers to set a strategy for the winter. He’ll decide who to protect from the Rule 5 draft, who to non-tender, who to re-sign, who to go after in free agency and who to target on the trade market. The offseason is just getting started.
Is Montero in the Venezuelan league?
Hope the bandits don’t know how much upside he has…
But doesn’t Cashman just buy the championship? The offseason should be easy…
“Yankees Hot Stove” starts tonight on YES at 6:30.
Here’s a question for everyone:
CC can opt out of his contract after next season – which he would be stupid not to do – so do you sign Lackey as protection against losing CC or do you stand pat and leave some room in the rotation to not only bring back CC but also try to bring in a Cliff Lee, Josh Beckett, or Roy Halladay?
I do hope we sign Lackey!.
Why would CC opt out of his contract??? he got a monster contract and no one will give him that money since he will be 3 years older. Plus he seems to really like it in NY.
i thought cc was after 3 yrs ???
next year is only 2??
Chip-I really doubt CC will opt out. Anything’s possible, but I don’t see it happening. He seems to love playing for the Yankees.
bru
November 12th, 2009 at 9:49 am
i thought cc was after 3 yrs ???
next year is only 2??
*************
I think you’re right-I’m pretty sure it’s after 3 years.
Chip,
We have 2 more guaranteed seasons of CC being here, I think it’s too early to come up with a replacement plan. The very earliest Cashman should consider this is after the 2010 seasons. Even then, I see no reason why CC wouldn’t re-up with the Yanks after opting out (if that’s what he decides to do). What will have changed after 2011 that would cause CC to go elsewhere? The Yanks will still pay him the most and so far he’s had amazing success with the team and he seems to like it here.
I’m really not too worried about a possible CC opt-out especially this early in his contract.
One of the positives for the yankees decision making process with regards to Granderson is that they likely have a significant amount of information into why he tailed off so much last year.
For much of the second half of the season it looked as if the Yankees were going to be opening up the playoffs against Detroit. Even when Detroit started to fade it was completely uncertain whether the yankees would have to play the tigers or the twins.
As such, I’d guess that the yankees scouted the Tigers in a relatively extensive fashion last year in preparation for the playoffs.
They will have seen Graderson play and would have formulated reports on his active strengths and weaknesses and how his game changed from prior years.
That information will help them make a decision now with respect to whether or not to trade for Granderson and how to properly value the talent needed to do so.
It’s not as if he’s a player on the Diamondbacks or some other club they’ve hardly seen. He hurt them in the playoffs back in 2006 and given how mediocre the tigers offense was this year and how bad guys like Ordonez were Granderson was likely a focus of the yankees scouting.
He’s a difficult player to make an evaluation on but the yankees will likely be able to do so through a relatively informed decision making process.
As it is it’s best to just let the Tigers stew. They are only going to get more desperate as the off season goes by.
To even put guys like Granderson or Jackon on the market speaks volumes for how they are projecting their 2010 revenue streams. They are probably very worried about what their attendance will be and whether major sponsors will re-up. Very tough economic situation in Detroit.
Letting Ordonez’s option vest is killing that team now. What an awful contract.
That would be fun, another star opts out of his already gigantic contract to resign to another, more gigantic contract.
If Boras were CC’s agent, there’d be no question as to whether he’d opt out or not, unless he was injured in his opt out year.
Chip. . I think you have to go after Lackey for several differnet reasons
1- First the guy can flat out Pitch, We’ve seen that first hand now for the last 5 years or so
2- Its an isurance policy, We don’t know how Pettite is going to pitch. Yes he had a very good season. but he’s also a year older
3- Theres NO guarntee that Halladay, Lee , or Beckett will be available next season
Halladay wants to sign a long term deal or he’s not being traded. He’ll be traded this offseason or by the trading deadline.. You can scratch him off the list ( unless we land him )
Lee- I’m sure the Phillies will do everything they can to sign him long term.
Beckett- This one is a little tricky. I just can’t see him pitching for us
Erin –
It’s not a matter of not loving playing for the Yankees, but CC can opt out and easily get an additional 3 years at the same (or more) money than he’s making now.
Bru -
You’re right – I mistyped – he can opt out following the 2011 season. Question is still valid though – do you sign Lackey now as protection against losing CC if he decides to go elsewhere.
So I was listening to MLB home plate on xm this morning and it was really infuriating. The host and a caller were talking about how the Yankees can outbid anyone and that’s the only reason they made the world series. They both agreed that the Yanks outbid the Sox for Mark Teixeira (uhhh not exacltly) and the host went on to say that teams like the Cincinatti Reds are sitting at home during the playoffs knowing that they have zero chance of ever making the world series because they can’t spend enough.
Was it all just a dream or did the Tampa Bay Rays make it to the World Series in 2008?
Letting Ordonez’s option vest is killing that team now. What an awful contract.
====================
I was surprised by that. I think he’s getting 18 million.
Yikes
Chip
November 12th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Erin –
It’s not a matter of not loving playing for the Yankees, but CC can opt out and easily get an additional 3 years at the same (or more) money than he’s making now.
******************
Chip, true, but I really don’t see him opting out. I’m not even going to worry about it ’til the time comes, since he’ll definetly be here the next 2 seasons.
Montero for the King.
“Its an isurance policy, We don’t know how Pettite is going to pitch. Yes he had a very good season. but he’s also a year older”
Bad sign on Lackey that the Angels aren’t even putting up a serious bid to keep him. They know him better than anyone and he’s had arm problems the past two years, including signs of elbow problems this year.
I’m not sure how much of an insurance policy he’d be.
Another question:
While I don’t think it’s likely that the Yankees pull off a deal for Curtis Granderson – would you rather trade a strong group of players for him (think Hughes and Jackson) or would you see if Detroit will take less for him (Kennedy, Gardner and McAllister) for Granderson if the Yankees would also take back the contract of Dontrelle Willis?
Teixeira & Jeter should be getting their Silver Sluggers to go with their Gold Gloves today.
ARod´s got a shot but the month off probably puts Longoria in front.
Cano´s in the mix but Aaron Hill should get it.
wow – there is a ton of work to be done by the front office. I’m still in a celebratory daze from last week. Looking forward to picking up the new championship SI magazine plus merchandise at sports authority.
Chad you know the triple A guys real well and probably have the more important double A guys so if it were up to you who would you protect?
CB-
Bad sign on Lackey that the Angels aren’t even putting up a serious bid to keep him. They know him better than anyone and he’s had arm problems the past two years, including signs of elbow problems this year.
- That does concern me. However unless we trade for Halladay , Theres not much on the market. I’d be more concerned with Joba (? ) and Hughes (?) as the final two starters.
I do not see CC going anywhere. He likes it here and makes a lot of money. I will still sign lackey tho but my I can only salibate at the thought this rotation.
1)CC/Halladay
2)CC/Halladay
3)Burnett
4)Petitte
5)Joba/Hughes
Mannn
I don’t see the need to get Lackey. I think they should try to sign Harden, Duchscherer, or Sheets. Hopefully they will have Wang back too, mid-season.
With Joba or Hughes in the rotation as well, I think the Yanks would have a pretty good rotation.
And the Yanks might also go after Chapman who could potentially contribute at some point in 2010.
It’s not a matter of not loving playing for the Yankees, but CC can opt out and easily get an additional 3 years at the same (or more) money than he’s making now.
___
You think CC will get MORE than 23M / Year somewhere ?
Don’t think so…
Lackey is a consistently good pitcher… when he’s healthy.
Keep in mind folks, he hasn’t pitched a full season in 2 years. Also you should all realize, he’s not an ace. A very good #2 starter but not an ace. He will demand more than A.J. Burnett and I don’t think I want the Yankees to invest that much in another pitcher.
At some point the young guys have to step up. The Yanks concentrate so much on developing young pitching for a reason, now is the time to use them.
Joba had ups and downs last year but now he is mostly free of innings limits. He can pitch a full year (not 220 innings, but enough to get through 30 starts).
Hughes is ready to step in and can probably get through a full year if he’s at the back of the rotation
I’m simply not convinced that Lackey will be so much better than Hughes and Joba that it will be worth $80+ million.
NYY would be better off making seperate deals on Granderson, Edwin Jackson and Inge (who they are considering trying to move) and add players and cash to each of the deals and either trade Inge off or put him in left field. He’s a good outfielder, and he gives a team a very solid insurance policy at at four positions.
Patrick -
When I hear nonsense like that I say that what MLB needs is a salary cap like the NFL where every team has a chance to win the title: except Oakland, Detroit, KC, Cleveland, Buffalo and the other perennial losers.
The fact is that there’s no parity in any sport, it’s a myth. Just as many teams in the NBA and NFL are completely out of the playoff picture early on as in baseball – and baseball has had more different champions in the last 5 years than the NFL has.
I would trade Melky and Kennedy and McAllister for Granderson! And after that I would send Melkys Buddy Cano and some AA Prospects to the Giants for Cain!
That would be great!
“if the Yankees would also take back the contract of Dontrelle Willis?”
From looking at the last few years, it looks to me like the Yankees are done with taking bad contracts off the hands of other clubs. It also looks like they are done with paying players to play with other teams. Otherwise, Giambi probably would have been traded in ’07 or ’08 with the Yanks picking up much of the tab, and Wells probably would have been a Yankee this past year. But the prospect of picking up that bad of a deal was too much, even if they got Halladay in it.
Patrick-
I think most of us had the same questions about AJ last season. Injuries , attitude problem, and look how he pitched. He carried us when CC was struggling and he was lights out in game 2 of the World Series .
Lackey would realy insure our staff. It also take the pressure off Joba and Hughes
tex’s friend November 12th, 2009 at 10:02 am
It’s not a matter of not loving playing for the Yankees, but CC can opt out and easily get an additional 3 years at the same (or more) money than he’s making now.
___
You think CC will get MORE than 23M / Year somewhere ?
Don’t think so…
===========================
Yeah, well I didn’t think anybody would pay A-Rod more than 25 mil per year either, yet he opted out and came back at a “discount” of 27 per with a chance to reach 300 mil, and a ten year contract.
So…
“I would trade Melky and Kennedy and McAllister for Granderson! And after that I would send Melkys Buddy Cano and some AA Prospects to the Giants for Cain!
That would be great!”
Is that you, Steve Phillips?
Ok I thought long and hard about Granderson. I like him a lot but I pass on him unless it is a Swisher 09 deal. If Detroit is looking at this as a salary dump then OK offer some b level prospects perhaps guys that can not be protected in the Rule V draft. I just cant get over the fact that his batting avg. against lefties is that low and he strikes 140+ times a year. Again if its a Swisher type deal I would do it in a heartbeat but if it means something like Joba and Ajax I would prefer to stay put. As far as Edwin Jackson, he is someone to look at. Someone on the Yankees needs to really do there homework and figure out what was up with his second half.
Ok I thought long and hard about Granderson. I like him a lot but I pass on him unless it is a Swisher 09 deal. If Detroit is looking at this as a salary dump then OK offer some b level prospects perhaps guys that can not be protected in the Rule V draft. I just cant get over the fact that his batting avg. against lefties is that low and he strikes 140+ times a year. Again if its a Swisher type deal I would do it in a heartbeat but if it means something like Joba and Ajax I would prefer to stay put. As far as Edwin Jackson, he is someone to look at. Someone on the Yankees needs to really do there homework and figure out what was up with his second half.
“trade Inge off or put him in left field. He’s a good outfielder, and he gives a team a very solid insurance policy at at four positions.”
GB –
Inge would be awesome to have. Inge defense in CF is decent. don’t forget, he was the starting CFer to begin the 2008 season when Granderson went down.
El duque
November 12th, 2009 at 10:06 am
I would trade Melky and Kennedy and McAllister for Granderson! And after that I would send Melkys Buddy Cano and some AA Prospects to the Giants for Cain!
That would be great!
————————————————————
Another glue sniffer, huh? Or do you just eat paste?
Mark,
I tend to agree but then again the Yankees are paying Igawa a lot of money to play in Scranton and they haven’t been against taking back some contracts (the Nady/Marte deal) if it means they get to give up less in terms of prospects.
“I think most of us had the same questions about AJ last season.”
Here’s the difference. AJ had TJ surgery, had complications from TJ surgery and then showed he was recovered from that in 2008. He did all of that on the Blue Jays dime.
Lackey this year had very concerning symptoms that would be in line with him needing TJ surgery in the future. That is on the dime of the team that signs him next.
No way the angels would just let a pitcher like that go unless they were very worried about him holding up. The Angels have the cash to sign him.
There’s a real argument to be made that Lackey is a higher injury risk going forward than AJ was last year at this time.
The Angels have seen and had multiple medical opinions on all of Lackey’s medicals.
Next year’s free agent class is filled with front line starting. Sign Lackey now and you’ll have to pass on halladay or cliff lee.
I would trade Melky and Kennedy and McAllister for Granderson!
=============
Geez, Granderson isn’t that good.
Jen, the backpage of the Newsday was ludicrous – I forget the actual headline, but the gist of it was that the Yankees have no faith in Girardi. Huh? They have bigger fish to fry right now – the coaches and obviously the FA/possible trades. Girardi has a contract – he isn’t, and shouldn’t be, the priority.
I don’t get people who think we should wait until so/so becomes a free agent ….let’s take Carl Crawford for example (but he’s just an example – this goes for anyone). First of all, if he is traded, he’s not coming to the Yankees as the Rays will never trade with the Yankees. Secondly, the Rays will probably re-sign him. Finally, even if the Rays don’t re-sign him, we have absolutely no idea whether he would have any interest in the Yankees. By the time he becomes a free agent, there will be several teams interested in him. A team can not plan it’s future around one player they aren’t even guaranteed to land. Yes, I know the Yankees passed on Santana because they knew CC was going to be a FA, but that was a risk worth taking and they were going to go all in on him. For 99.9% of the other players, it’s just a foolhardy gamble.
Mike RI -
The difference is, the Yankees desperately needed another quality starter at the front of the rotation last year at this time. Right now, I don’t think they do.
I don’t want to take pressure off of Hughes and Chamberlain. I want them to feel the pressure and step it up. They have gone through the system, pitched a lot in the majors (for their age) – now is the time for them both to become full-time major league starters.
Again, think of it this way. Lackey will cost $80 million or more. How much better will he be over the next five years than Chamberlain or Hughes? Is the difference in performance really worth $80 million? I don’t think it is.
Has any player NOT opted out of a contract when given the chance?
October -
Pass on Edwin Jackson.
Last year he was outstanding, no question – but was that one year the start of something or just a big year in an otherwise mediocre career?
Granderson to me is a left handed Soriano – which isn’t a bad thing – but you know going in that there will be stretches where he drives you nuts.
Given what the Yankees will need if Damon and Matsui leave I would rather sign Winn for 1 year or trade for David DeJesus to play LF and bat in the 2 spot and (yes I’m going to say it again) make a deal for Brad Hawpe (and Clint Barmes) and then sign a good pitcher (maybe not Lackey but a decent middle of the rotation arm)
Ed – slacking in class now
November 12th, 2009 at 10:13 am
“trade Inge off or put him in left field. He’s a good outfielder, and he gives a team a very solid insurance policy at at four positions.”
GB –
Inge would be awesome to have. Inge defense in CF is decent. don’t forget, he was the starting CFer to begin the 2008 season when Granderson went down.
————————————————————
Inge’s only real drawback is his strikeouts. He’s a very good defensive player at 4 positions…3rd, all outfield spots, 1st base and catcher. Unless I miss my bet, he’d probably do a fair job filling in at short and 2nd, too. He has power, decent speed and produces runs. Just not great on hitting for average.
The Yankees will not trade Phil/Joba or anyone of that ilk for Granderson. I don’t think they’d trade Phil or Joba for anyone (short of Felix Hernandez, but forget that for now).
CC is not going to opt out….he loves it here; he loves his teammates. He’s building a house out in NJ…..
GB –
you think Long could fix him? after all, Long turned Swisher into a 300 hitter during the first month of the season.
And here we….Go!
http://www.fannation.com/truth.....?eref=sihp
Chip,
They are paying Igawa to pitch in Scranton, but he is there because they won’t pay him to pitch for somebody else. If they were willing to eat all but the ML minimum on his deal, they could trade him today.
As far as Nady/Marte, they wanted both of them. What I am saying is that they won’t take on a bad deal, just because it also brings them a player they want, like Boston taking Lowell’s deal to get Beckett, even though it worked out for them. I don’t think they will, anyway.
CB-
Next year’s free agent class is filled with front line starting. Sign Lackey now and you’ll have to pass on halladay or cliff lee.
-I have to disagree respectfully. We don’t know the exact reason why the Angels haven’t engaged Lackey yet. Maybe the have Roy Hallday on there minds. or maybe there just being Cheap or Maybe they haven’t came up with there off-season game plan yet. Much like the Yankees.
As far as next years pitchers. Theres no guarantee that those pitchers will still be there . I know Hallday won’t because whoever trades for him will have to sign him long term
The Red Sox don’t want Matsui, that’s silly. That’s either a flat out lie, speculation that turned into a rumor or the Sox are trying to drive up his price for when he eventually goes back to NY.
Boogie Down-I’ve heard that story has already been shot down.
“Has any player NOT opted out of a contract when given the chance?”
Jason Varitek
Ed
Inge’s knees had to have injections throughout last year, and he barely held up, only through his desire to play.
Aside from his heart, I would not want a long term injury waiting to happen such as Inge.
Chip
November 12th, 2009 at 10:18 am
October -
Pass on Edwin Jackson.
Last year he was outstanding, no question – but was that one year the start of something or just a big year in an otherwise mediocre career?
Granderson to me is a left handed Soriano – which isn’t a bad thing –
****but you know going in that there will be stretches where he drives you nuts.****
Given what the Yankees will need if Damon and Matsui leave I would rather sign Winn for 1 year or trade for David DeJesus to play LF and bat in the 2 spot and (yes I’m going to say it again) make a deal for Brad Hawpe (and Clint Barmes) and then sign a good pitcher (maybe not Lackey but a decent middle of the rotation arm)
————————————————————
You mean long stretches like Swisher, Teixeira, Cabrera and others?
I don’t understand all the negativity towards Robbie- he makes some amazing plays. If he was diving in the dirt would people like him better?
Betsy- I know it is unrealistic to hope for Crawford. I just don’t see going after Holliday/Bay when the Yankees could still have Damon/Sui for another year.
Erin November 12th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Boogie Down-I’ve heard that story has already been shot down.
===============
That’s correct.
And guess who shot it down??
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....tra_bases/
Patrick, you’re expecting a lot from Hughes – too much so, I think. He’s way behind Joba in terms of development. Joba? He needs to be solid this year. Phil? He pitched out of the pen last year, so he’s got to relearn (as it were) to pitch to lineups multiple times. His curve became inconsistent (not sure why – lack of use in pen?) and he’s got no change up. He also lost his confidence at the end of the year. This year was supposed to be a year in which he could get his innings in and develop. Well, we won the WS and would not have done so without Phil in the pen, but here is where we pay the piper. I love this kid and think he’s got the stuff (and makeup – although now I have to wonder a little, given what happened in the playoffs) to be a terrific starter…..It’s not happening this year, though.
As to the clowns who hate on the Yankees, ignore them.
upstate kate
November 12th, 2009 at 10:24 am
I don’t understand all the negativity towards Robbie-
*****************
you and me both.
Matsui makes no sense for Boston. He can’t play the field and Big Pop-up is already clogging the DH spot
Upstate Kate, my comment had nothing to do with our LF situation, just overall fans assuming we can get whatever player we want to. We don’t know, by the way, that we can get Damon/Matsui for another year. Maybe Matsui for 1 and 1 option, but Damon? I don’t think so.
What other players do with their options has no bearing on CC. CC is already on a team that will be consistent contender, he’s very happy in NY and he loves his teammates. Opt out just to opt out? I don’t see it.
CB -
Good observation about the Yankees having scouted Detroit fairly heavily in preparation for the Division Series.
Ed – slacking in class now
November 12th, 2009 at 10:20 am
GB –
you think Long could fix him? after all, Long turned Swisher into a 300 hitter during the first month of the season.
————————————————————
I couldn’t answer that, to be honest. One thing is, neither he nor Granderson wouldn’t be trying to jerk every pitch out of an airport? There wouldn’t be a need to in this lineup.
betsy,
We’ll see.
Traditionally, starters break in to the majors as relievers. Phil has done that in a spectacular way, there is nothing more he can learn from being in the pen. It’s time he takes over as a full-time starter.
If the Yankees sign Lackey and get Pettitte back where does Phil go? AAA? Back to the pen? I don’t see that happening.
Everyone is putting Granderson in a league far ahead of Melkey. Sure- Granderson hit more home runs, but their ’09 stats are not too far apart:
Melk: OPS+ 99
Granderson: OPS+ 100
Melk: OPS 752
Granderson: 780
Melk: 58 k’s
Granderson: 141(!!!) k’s
Not as big an upgrade as you’d think….
I’ve been advocating the Yankees’ exploring Granderson possibilities for a long, long time.
The price will be high, but if it’s too high, just pass on it.
He would be a huge star in New York, and a fixture in center, for a many seasons.
This is the update on the realitively minor surgery on Inge. It’s hardly reconstructive surgery.
“Inge underwent surgery on both of his knees on November 3, 2009. He will be attending a strengthening and rehabilitation program during the winter. He is expected to make a full recovery by the time 2010 spring training begins.”
The talk to get Granderson seems to be making the rounds. Tigers are shedding payroll all over. We can get granderson and maybe jackson or ordonez/guillen etc maybe for not too much.
betsy
I have all the faith in the world that Joe will be signed to an extension before the season starts. He is the least of their concerns right now. Those talking heads have nothing better to talk about. Giants/Jets, Knicks/Nets all stink and no one cares about hockey, so why not pick on the Yankees?
granderson not much of an upgrade at the plate, but moving melky to right and granderson into cf, or melky to left should improve things more.
Mark my words, Melky is poised for a breakout season in 2010. Take a look at Granderson’s numbers when he was 25 years old and compare them to him at 26 years old. His breakout season was 2007, his numbers in 2006 (25y old) were almost identical to Melky’s this year.
eric,
Granderson is a better fielder, also look at his 2007 and 2008 stats. In 2009 his BABIP was dreadfully low meaning he had bad luck and also hit more fly-balls (change in his swing?). Seriously though, check out his 2007 and 2008 stats, they are better than 2009.
Mike RI
November 12th, 2009 at 9:52 am
Chip. . I think you have to go after Lackey for several differnet reasons
1- First the guy can flat out Pitch, We’ve seen that first hand now for the last 5 years or so
2- Its an isurance policy, We don’t know how Pettite is going to pitch. Yes he had a very good season. but he’s also a year older
3- Theres NO guarntee that Halladay, Lee , or Beckett will be available next season
Halladay wants to sign a long term deal or he’s not being traded. He’ll be traded this offseason or by the trading deadline.. You can scratch him off the list ( unless we land him )
Lee- I’m sure the Phillies will do everything they can to sign him long term.
Beckett- This one is a little tricky. I just can’t see him pitching for us
==========================================================
Most intelligent post of the day so far
add in the fact that having Joba AND Hughes in the starting lineup may be a recipe for disaster….and that if the Yankees are counting on Ian Kennedy (IAN KENNEDY REALLY!?!?), Ivan Nova, Mccalister and the rest of the Motley Crew in the minors as their backup plan in case something goes wrong with the big club then you are looking at 2008 all over again..
GreenBeret7
November 12th, 2009 at 9:43 am
Rishi
November 12th, 2009 at 9:23 am
Interesting – my per diems are not taxed – is there a reason this would be different for them? Should I be expecting that at some point, too?
Any “gifts” we receive are taxed as bonuses so I understand that part…
————————————————————
Not sure how they can tax per diem. The only way that can be taxed is if it’s declared income and players are writing off road meals as as an job expense on their taxes. Same thing with the miltary. You can’t claim meals, laundry and hotel expenses on your taxes if you get a per diem. Not sure why rings would be taxed unless it reaches a certain amount and it’s a gift tax.
====================================
Just saw this, GB – we get taxed on any gifts at all (regardless of cost), which is why the company does all these weird things when giving gifts…we get a reminder on the policy every holiday season.
I have no idea, just thought it was an interesting aside to the meetings and goes to the full range of topics discussed
Granderson road mumbers last year:
.267BA .345OBP .516SLG .861OPS
The Yankees will not trade Phil/Joba or anyone of that ilk for Granderson. I don’t think they’d trade Phil or Joba for anyone (short of Felix Hernandez, but forget that for now).
__
the way the tigers are going, this may just take ian kennedy, a developing pitcher and jackson (or a good cf).
“Granderson is a better fielder, also look at his 2007 and 2008 stats. In 2009 his BABIP was dreadfully low meaning he had bad luck and also hit more fly-balls (change in his swing?). Seriously though, check out his 2007 and 2008 stats, they are better than 2009.”
Right, people need to look beyond just the past season and look at a larger sample size regarding a player’s production like Cashman did last year with Swisher.
I have know idea what it would take or if he is even available but Denard Span would be a perfect fit if Damon leaves. He can play all three outfield positions extremely well with a good arm and speed. Plus he is a good character guy.
GB -
Yes, exactly like that. In fact the big problem I have with Granderson is that if you have him and Swisher in the lineup that’s two guys who are going to hit in the .240s for you and that’s almost never a good thing.
Mark -
As I said, I don’t disagree with you. But I do think that if the Yankees could convince themselves that a Nate Robertson or Dontrelle Willis would fill a need in the back of the rotation (or on a larger scale that Vernon Wells would fill a need in the OF) then I think they would eat at least a good chunk of the deal if it meant that they could give up fewer prospects to get their target.
“We don’t know the exact reason why the Angels haven’t engaged Lackey yet. ”
No we don’t. But one distinct possibility is that they are concerned by his health, his medical and his missed time over the past two years. That is entirely in the realm of probability.
And that’s particularly relevant because you are arguing that Lackey is a given, an “insurance blanket.”
I just disagree with that valuation. Because of health concerns I feel that position is overstating his value and how much of an insurance blanket he is likely to be. Lackey carries considerable risk, especially on a long term deal.
I base that on the fact that he has had significant arm problems two years in a row, including symptoms that are often tell tale signs of needing TJ in the future. Not a guarantee in any way, but clearly a serious risk factor.
And to me while we definitively don’t know why the Angels are so cool on him there are only a relatively small number of reasons why a team like the Angels – a team whose window of opportunity is now and closing – would pass on a bona fide front line starter, one who came up in their farm system and who they know inside and out.
And at the top of the list for why a team would pass on their own starter when that starter is a guy of Lackey’s caliber are concerns about his health. And that’s not unfoundec because he hasn’t pitched a full season in two years. And his injury this year was especially concerning.
So while we don’t know definitively, that’s not how risk works. Risk places a bound on uncertainty.
And the angels not pursuing Lackey vigorously is absolutely a risk factor in the way he has to be valuated. It’s not the be all and end all, but it’s a major factor.
People tend attribute all sorts of risk to young players like Hughes and Chamberlain while ignoring much stronger aspects of risk related to veterans.
There’s always risk. It’s simply a matter of how you want to stratify that risk. There’s no way to eliminate risk.
The 2009 yankees had major risks going into the season. They decided to go into the season with a comparatively old roster many of who were coming off serious injuries. That risk paid off. But that doesn’t mean there wasn’t huge risk with those older players. There was.
Lackey is a risk. He’s not an insurance blanket, IMO.
Span is not available since they traded Gomez away which means that Span has been given the Twins CF job.
Denard can Span the Globe and track down a fly ball.
Why would Minnesota give up Span? Isn’t their entire strategy about trying to win with cheap young players before their payday arrives?
October –
With the trade of Gomez to the Brewers I don’t think the Twins have any intention of moving Span.
**** no idea sorry 10:37
“I have all the faith in the world that Joe will be signed to an extension before the season starts. He is the least of their concerns right now.”
That’s typically not how the Yankees do business. They let the contract run out before re-negotiating. They did it with Torre and Cashman, with Rivera, A-Rod, Pettitte, and Posada, and they’re going to do it with Jeter and Girardi.
Either way, it’s not really a big news story. He did the job he was hired to do. Unless the Yankees have the worst record in baseball next year, Girardi is going to be back beyond the 2010 season.
I didn’t think that the Sox would go after Matsui, but the off-field games have begun between the teams.
why would anyone suggest we go for Josh Beckett?
He cannot stay healthy, and at the second half of seasons, he begins throwing batting practice. No thank you. Stick with Joba (aceves, mitre, gaudin, hughes, wang, etc)…
“The fact is that there’s no parity in any sport, it’s a myth. Just as many teams in the NBA and NFL are completely out of the playoff picture early on as in baseball – and baseball has had more different champions in the last 5 years than the NFL has.”
But for different reasons.
Yes, there are perennially NFL and NBA teams that fail every year. But they fail on merit. They fail on a relatively even playing field.
This would also be the case in babeball, were there an even playing field. But there is NOT.
This is not advocating a salary cap in baseball, I’m just observing a fact.
In fact, what it probably means more than anything is there should be no more than 24 teams in the league, perhaps even less.
ACTUAL parity is a different animal than potential parity. The latter exists in the NBA and NFL. It exists, but at a much different level in MLB.
The Yankees and Red Sox etc DO have a significant advantage over other teams.
Even Yankees fans should be able to acknowledge this.
I know Span would be tough to get a hold of. Nearly impossible right now because of the Gomez trade. I really like what he brings to the table.
I know they don’t extend players mid contract, but are you sure that is the same for managers? I am not so sure.
CB
November 12th, 2009 at 9:57 am
“Its an isurance policy, We don’t know how Pettite is going to pitch. Yes he had a very good season. but he’s also a year older”
Bad sign on Lackey that the Angels aren’t even putting up a serious bid to keep him. They know him better than anyone and he’s had arm problems the past two years, including signs of elbow problems this year.
I’m not sure how much of an insurance policy he’d be.
———————————————————-
Not True – as much as Arte Moreno likes to chirp on how much he spends – he is rather cheap..he let Teixeira go, he let KRod go he didn’t even bother looking at Manny, Sabathia and soiled his pants when AROd became available
even though he promised his fans that he was going to make a “blockbuster” signing that offseason – the blockbuster signing was torii hunter. He does however like to spend his money on lower level scrubs like gary matthews and brian fuentes…or get bargain basement deals like abreu…
Why would Girardi be signed to an extention when he is still under contract? That isn’t how it worked with Cashman or players, why would Girardi be an exception?
““We don’t know the exact reason why the Angels haven’t engaged Lackey yet. ”
No we don’t. But one distinct possibility is that they are concerned by his health, his medical and his missed time over the past two years. That is entirely in the realm of probability.”
It’s still really early in the offseason. The World Series just ended 8 days ago. Maybe the Angels want to see how the market shakes out on Lackey before making a move. I don’t see how it’s different from how Cashman is approaching the Matsui, Damon, and even Pettitte contract situations this year.
I do agree with you that with Lackey’s arm troubles, he’s not much of an insurance policy. Coupled in with Burnett’s past history of injuries, it’s possible that Hughes and Chamberlain see significant time in the rotation regardless of if they get another starter via trade or free agency.
@ Patrick, understand his 09 was a down year, but his OPS has declined every year since 07 and his k’s are off the charts. Why would the Yankees give up anything of value for essentially the same hitter (using OPS/OPS+) ? His left/right splits were brutal last yr. (.183 v. .275)
good point Sab
Not True – as much as Arte Moreno likes to chirp on how much he spends – he is rather cheap..he let Teixeira go, he let KRod go he didn’t even bother looking at Manny, Sabathia and soiled his pants when AROd became available
even though he promised his fans that he was going to make a “blockbuster” signing that offseason – the blockbuster signing was torii hunter. He does however like to spend his money on lower level scrubs like gary matthews and brian fuentes…or get bargain basement deals like abreu…
HUGE NEWS Wilson Betemit signing a minor league deal with the Royals.
Granderson not an upgrade in the Yanks’lineup? Jeeeesh.
I see a lot of Tigers games here, 60 miles south of Detroit.
He was asked to supply some power in the Tigers’ lineup this year, and hit 30 in cavernous Comerica Park.
Two years ago he hit 38 doubles, 23 triples, 23 homers, and scored 122 runs.
Also has great leadership qualites and would be a great fit in any clubhouse.
As far as defense, he’s behind Gardner, but better than Melky.
Chip — Granderson had a tough year and his .249. His career average (.272) is a better indicator and he’s been hitting in one of the best “pitcher’s” parks in the game.
If the Yanks decide to take on a big contract it will be for Halladay or Lackey or anoterh A-list starter not an overpaid shlub like Willis or Robertson.
The only way I’d even consider Vernon Wells is if the deal was Wells and Halladay for Igawa.
Chip
November 12th, 2009 at 10:38 am
GB -
Yes, exactly like that. In fact the big problem I have with Granderson is that if you have him and Swisher in the lineup that’s two guys who are going to hit in the .240s for you and that’s almost never a good thing.
————————————————————
Sorry, but, you’ll need a better reason than that to turn down a Granderson trade (depending on the talent required). NYY has had players before that struck out. Granderson is above average defensively (and certainly better than Gardner), he steals bases at a highly successful rate and can hit the ball out of the park. Last year was a down year for average. Is that what you’ve decided that a trade should be based on?
Just call me Mr. Clutch November 12th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Why would Girardi be signed to an extention when he is still under contract? That isn’t how it worked with Cashman or players, why would Girardi be an exception?
================
They wouldn’t. The Yanks will wait until the 2010 off-season.
October –
Agree with you about Span.
I kinda wonder what it would take to get Sizemore from Cleveland.
“Not True – as much as Arte Moreno likes to chirp on how much he spends – he is rather cheap..he let Teixeira go, he let KRod ”
They offered Tex over 150M – that’s cheap?
Last year they offered CC 140M. Cheap?
And part of what the concern with their approach to Lackey this year is how they treated KRod last year.
The Angels never made a serious play for KRod because they thought his stuff was down and that he was a long term injury risk. They thought he was a guy who wouldn’t hold up over the span of his contract.
They’re acting in a similar fashion now with Lackey. There is almost no talk of Lackey reupping with the Angels and there wasn’t much over the second half of the season.
The Angels threw millions at Hunter and Gary Matthews. They have one of the highest pay rolls in baseball. I agree that Moreno is more talk than action but in no way does that make that franchise “cheap.”
Chip
November 12th, 2009 at 10:45 am
HUGE NEWS Wilson Betemit signing a minor league deal with the Royals.
********************
Now I can relax. I was worried where Betemit was going to end up.
As far as Willis….he’s probably done. His social anxiety problems are a darn shame. He’s a really good guy, but he’s got big problems. He cannot throw strikes. Period.
GB -
As I said, Granderson is a left handed Alfonso Soriano at the plate. He has his positives and his negatives. With a lineup like the Yankees have I would prefer a table setter in the 2 spot (ie: Winn or DeJesus).
Granderson is a very good defensive outfielder, no doubt about that. But I just think he’s a touch overrated overall and the price (as you suggest) would be staggering to get him from Detroit – as in Hughes and Jackson as a starting point.
GreenBeret7 -
For me its the fact he has a hard time hitting Lefties. and his on base percentage isn’t very good. ( not to mention he k’s way to much ).
Some poster brought up the fact Granderson is similar to Soriano. its kind of true.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.c.....dgers.html
They extended Joe’s contract twice. So it has been done before. Not to bring up old news. But if you look at his contracts they had incentives based on # of wins. Funny how he took offense in 2007 when it suited him.
Erin,
It is a weight off my mind as well.
“I have all the faith in the world that Joe will be signed to an extension before the season starts.”
Everyone has played out their deals in the the past including Cashman. Why would they change that pattern now?
Pat not entirely true. I just posted Joe’s contracts, he was extended twice before the contract was up.
I think it would help granderson’s average too to hit behind jeter, to hit and run and of course the short porch. Long would have to make sure he isnt swinging for the right field porch, but he is basically damon but better in the field and younger.
Chip-
Sizemore when healhy is a beast!!!
For what it’s worth, Gammons thinks Lackey signs with Seattle.
Chip,
Over his career, Granderson is more than a .240 hitter. Expect him to hit anywhere from .275 to .300 with 20-30 HR. Good defense in CF too. Not to mention the doubles and triples. He’s a very good player.
eric,
I realize his splits are very poor but even with that he is an upgrade in CF over Melky/Gardner. The bottom line is, Granderson fits the bill of young(ish), athletic and established talent. He isn’t all that expensive either.
If the Yanks could get Granderson, I think the ideal situation would be to sign Matsui, put Melky in LF and trade Gardner or just make him a bench player.
Honestly though, I think this is all just a pipe dream. Dombrowski is going to want a lot for a guy like Granderson, he is one of their best players.
Chip
we dont know what it will take for him
the tigers are a mess & are going to dump payroll fast
if it takes more than ajax,kennedy,gardner or a lesser 3rd player you dont do it
you dont give up hughes or joba for him
i only give up hughes,joba,cano for a king felix
Granderson is a 9-10 million dollar platoon player as he is absolutely unplayable against lefties. Detroit is smart in the sense that they are trying to dump payroll and move him off of his best year power wise which is a mask for the fact that he’s a very flawed player. They want to turn his spot over to Casper Wells who projects to be a better player than Granderson offensively equal defensively and is a better basestealer.
There is absolutely no way i’d entertain trading AJax,Phil,Joba,Montero for Granderson or Edwin Jackson…
if the Tigers want to talk Romine,McCallister,Dunn,Duff,Laird from my tier 2 prospects okay…They need bullpen help more than anything
the guy from Detroit that would most interest me actually would be Guillen who if he could stay healthy would be an improvement over Damon as far as hit switch bat and defense..
we’ve already seen what Edwin Jackson would be in the AL East and he is a notorious fader in the second half. I honestly think that both Joba and Hughes will be just as good if not slightly better than Jackson next year and i like him but in the Al East facing the deepest lineups in the game he would be league average 4.50era at best. I mean you could make a case that the best lineup in the AL Central would be the worst lineup in the Al East.
The #1 FA pitcher the Yankees should be after is Andy. We’ve got 2 high $$ pitchers and 2 young studs all lined up.
Andy for 8-10mil plus insentives for 1 year is the perfect fit. If Andy retires, all bets are off. Let’s hope the decision comes quickly. Andy has not filed so let’s hope it’s already in the works…
Silly question but I’ll ask it anyway – there’s a pitcher on the block who had a terrific season last year, was among the NL leaders in strikeouts – pitched a bunch of complete games – could probably be had for not too much (maybe even straight up for Nick Swisher). Any interest?
By the way – his name is Javy Vazquez.
A lefty hitting Soriano with outstanding CF defense sounds pretty good to me.
No way on earth Hughes is part of that deal. Probably something more like Kennedy and Austin Jackson plus a catcher (not Montero or Romine) or a good (not great) young arm. If it was Granderson and Jackson ho wabout this:
Austin Jackson
Brett Gardner
Ian Kennedy
Mark Melancon
Chad Gaudin
Kyle Hagashioka
Does that get it done?
Patrick for CT
2 young studs all lined up-
I woulnd’t call them studs just yet . talented yes . but not studs
Patrick from CT
November 12th, 2009 at 11:01 am
The #1 FA pitcher the Yankees should be after is Andy. We’ve got 2 high $$ pitchers and 2 young studs all lined up.
Andy for 8-10mil plus insentives for 1 year is the perfect fit. If Andy retires, all bets are off. Let’s hope the decision comes quickly. Andy has not filed so let’s hope it’s already in the works…
*********************
Patrick, agree 100%. Somebody’s twitter (I think it was Sherman, but it might have been Heyman) said that he supposedly told his teammates he intends to come back, so we shall see…
Patrick and Bru –
As I said, he’s a left handed Alfonso Soriano at the plate (and will be just as frustrating) and very good defensively. I just don’t know if that’s what the team needs or if he’s going to be worth what Detroit will want for him.
I think there are better fits out there for what the team needs if Damon and/or Matsui leave.
Jennifer
Torre used to make a big deal about being a lame duck which should have been telling. If you have the support of ownership, the front office and the clubhouse, they are is no such thing as a lame duck.
The stability in the organization used to come from the manager. Ownership and the front office has taken some of that power back in recent years.
The Yanks aren’t afraid to write checks but committing to spend cash before you have to is not smart business unless you have something to gain.
The only way it makes sense is if they think Girardi is irreplacable.
I’m not saying Granderson is bad (he’s good) –what im saying about Granderson, is unless its a salary dump where we pick him up for space AA pats, why would the Yankees give up significant talent for him?
Mike RI
November 12th, 2009 at 10:51 am
GreenBeret7 -
For me its the fact he has a hard time hitting Lefties. and his on base percentage isn’t very good. ( not to mention he k’s way to much ).
Some poster brought up the fact Granderson is similar to Soriano. its kind of true.
————————————————————
Granderson is nothing like soriano. As far as not hitting lefties….how did Paul O’Neill work out? If it’s an especially tough lefty on the mound, give him a day off. He has had good and bad years against left handers….just like O’Neill had after joining the Yanks. O’Neill had 3 years of hitting under .200 and NYY managed to win WS titles.
“I think there are better fits out there for what the team needs if Damon and/or Matsui leave.”
Like who?
“I’m not saying Granderson is bad (he’s good) –what im saying about Granderson, is unless its a salary dump where we pick him up for space AA pats, why would the Yankees give up significant talent for him?”
Because he would be a big upgrade in CF. Or he could fill in the void at LF if the Yanks don’t want Damon back.
CB it all depends on your definition of cheap..
yes he offered 150M and 140M to Tex and CC but thats knowing FULL WELL that it was going to take alot more to sign them..so his good faith “let me appease the fans that I at least tried” offers were nice but he had no intention of paying what it really took to sign them…to me thats cheap…
also they do have a high payroll – but you can’t really count that for a number of reasons –
1) about 18 of the 30 mlb teams are crying poverty so that they can keep the payroll down and pocket the money they are getting subsidized from
2) of the 12 teams left (teams that have over 90 million dollar payrolls) tha angels are #6 at 113 million( or just about average) – and play in the state that has the highest number of population – so the high payroll is really a farce when you take out the “poor teams” and actually look at the fact that they play in california which is the biggest state population wise – so they can’t claim they don’t have any fan support -like the marlins do..
Rishi-
I read somewhere once the value of a world series ring is over 20 grand. Which would exceed the amount the gift allowance per person per year. The IRS may be cracking down on this.
I have to admit, I am not tax specialized so I don’t always know full tax details. I have a huge seminar I need to attend on new tax matters for 2009 in a few weeks, so I will let you know if I learn anything that could shed light on fringe benefits
new thread
Erica – always OPPC
November 12th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Rishi-
I read somewhere once the value of a world series ring is over 20 grand. Which would exceed the amount the gift allowance per person per year. The IRS may be cracking down on this.
I have to admit, I am not tax specialized so I don’t always know full tax details. I have a huge seminar I need to attend on new tax matters for 2009 in a few weeks, so I will let you know if I learn anything that could shed light on fringe benefits
———————————————————
zzzzzzzz…..
John in Ohio -
When you say Granderson was asked to supply power in the lineup, what do you mean? Does that mean he was asked to forego his normal way of hitting? And why would an organization do that?
There are so many positives to Granderson, just being a quality individual, so I’d really like to think he’d be a real possibility for joining the Yankees.
here is the problem withsigning Lackey…
because the FA market for SP is very thin Lackey is gonna get paid like he’s a #1a starter and he’s not that!
He’s only won more than 14 games once in his career. On an elite team he really is a #3 starter so the value is not there to sign him for Burnett or better $… in reality AJ is overpaid because he’s more of a 3 as well…so you can’t keep signing guys to bloated contracts and overpaying what their real value is just to appease fans….
I also think that it’s innaccurate reporting that Halladay won’t approve a trade unless the team agrees to a long term deal.He’s one year away from FA and would do better to have more than 1 team to negotiate with. He will be the crown Jewel of pitchers on the 2010 FA market. I think what’s accurate is that he will grant a team a 72hr window to try and get a deal or the parameters of a deal done thereby maybe increasing the value of a package that Toronto would receive back.
as far as the likelyhood that Lee,Halladay and Beckett are all signed before next year i find that highly unlikely. Each guys agent knows that everyone of those guys off of a good year have Sabathis/Johan $ out there and unless the Phils are going to extend Lee 5yrs/$100-110mil he won’t sign before becoming a FA.Philly hasn’t shown a willingness th write that kind of check to m. We haven’t seen Theo write that kind of check yet either for a SP and Beckett is 7yrs/$150mil
Greenberet7-
Granderson is nothing like soriano. As far as not hitting lefties….how did Paul O’Neill work out? If it’s an especially tough lefty on the mound, give him a day off. He has had good and bad years against left handers….just like O’Neill had after joining the Yanks. O’Neill had 3 years of hitting under .200 and NYY managed to win WS titles.
—-
Come on GreenBeret its not fair to compare Granderson to O’neil. And Yes .. Granderson is alot like Soriano. Impatient, Tons of K’s , low on base percentage, Thats the last thing we need espically at the top of our lineup.
the more that i think about it the more i like the idea of maybe doing DeJesus straight up for a McCallister or maybe IPK
DeJesus is an excellent Lf’er good speed 300avg./390.obp/ some pop some speed and he led MLB in hitting w/RISP so he would be perfect for the 2 hole and upgrade to Damon in total aspects of the game he’s younger, Brooklyn born and he’s realtively cheap for the next two years
Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Isn’t that the Yankee game plan. After all Yankee fans will pay anything to win. Ka Ching $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Please bring in a salary cap. Ka Chung !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!