What’s the starting lineup right now?
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- November
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On the last day of the GM Meetings, I asked Brian Cashman if he’s going into this offseason thinking about Hideki Matsui as a potentially departing designated hitter or as a potentially departing No. 5 hitter. Matsui is both, of course, but there seems to be a slight difference between the two ways to think of him. As a DH, his spot is one that could be filled by any type of player. As a No. 5 hitter, his role is pretty specific as a run producer and as protection for Alex Rodriguez.
“I have not looked at what our lineup looks like yet,” Cashman said.
Without Matsui and without Johnny Damon, what does the Yankees lineup look like right now? How would you line it up, using only players under contract for next season?
1. Derek Jeter, SS
2. Nick Swisher, LF
3. Mark Teixeira, 1B
4. Alex Rodriguez, 3B
5. Jorge Posada, C
6. Robinson Cano, 2B
7. Melky Cabrera, RF
8. Juan Miranda, DH
9. Brett Gardner, CF
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on Friday, November 13th, 2009 at 9:00 am by Chad Jennings.
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Sam Borden
This looks like one of those lineups when Girardi is resting a few regulars. I would like to get a look at Miranda though, he reminds me of that guy on the Angels who kept being sent to the minors until finally breaking out this year at 1B, Kendry Morales.
Yikes.
Two big pieces missing.
Better get Lackey and resign Pettitte with that lineup.
I think I would put Cano in the 2nd spot.
Nice post, Chad, but we already have a GTLU thing going on here in the comments section!
Seriously, however, I agree with JeffNJ. It does look like a “resting” lineup. Not too intimidating. I do hope Cashman finds a way to bring back both Damon and Matsui. Damon, because he’s got a good bat, some speed, and can still play the field even if he throws like a girl. Matsui, obviously because of his bat, but also just because I’ve always admired him as a player, even if he’s been reduced to a DH.
It’s a a lot better than most teams trot out there. You know its only going to get better too with who ever they choose to solve the OF problem.
That lineup’s not bad, but I think you’d start to miss both Damon and Matsui pretty quick.
not bad. if our pitching holds up.. 85 to 90 win team
Swisher is not an ideal #2 – he gets on base, but he is not a contact hitter. Cano definitely should get a long look as the #2 hitter.
Nice analysis, and excellent question to Brian. I am sure you must have triggered an alarm in his head to start working and to just hold contemplating on everything the Yankees achieved in 2009 since the new goal is to defend the title and repeat it in 2010. Get a great time to defend the WS championship title is the goal, so Brian, it is time to step up and work.
we can win with that lineup. just need another starting pitcher.
Well, I wouldn’t have Gardner, I’d have Cabrera in the #9 spot.
OOPS!
I didn’t see Cabrera listed on first glance. Sorry. 
Obviously, if you let Damon and Matsui go, you need to add a bat.
Doreen-well at least Nine does have one real singer in Fergie. I have to admit, I’m curious to see if Nicole Kidman can sing. LOL I’ll have to keep an eye out for that magazine.
Swisher is a much better #2 hitter than cano. We’re looking for OBP and pitch taking ability in front of tex and arod, neither of which cano possesses. Cano would also GIDP more than swisher (based on their respective skill sets, I haven’t looked at the gidp numbers)
I agree Chris. The Yankees would not benefit from using Swisher in the two spot. The lineup is not terrible, considering the team would save lots of money, but they need a solid corner outfielder. Bay and Holliday are way to expensive, and likely not worth the money too.
Erin -
Nicole Kidman sang in “Moulin Rouge.” She’s got an interesting voice. Like Meryl Streep, they can sing, but it’s not the best thing they do, you know?
They may pull it off in “Nine,” because it is an interesting story with interesting characters, so the ability to act may trump the ability to sing in this particular one. Plus the sound editors really can do wonders these days!
Erin -
Wait – Fergie is in this? I wonder which role? Hmmm…
Jeter – SS
Swish – DH
Tex – 1b
Alex – 3b
Posada – C
Cano – 2b
Melky – RF
Jackson – CF
Gardner – LF
(If I’m fielding a team that can’t hit then I darn sure want an OF that can catch)
Doreen-I’m not sure who Fergie plays, but I know she’s in it. I’m not sure how big a part she has.
I forgot all about Moulin Rouge. I’ve only seen bits and pieces of that movie.
Gardner
Jeter
Tex
A-Rod
Cano
Posada
Swisher
Cabrera
Duncan/Miranda
What kind of #s did the melky Gardner platoon have?
Granderson better, but giving up on melky at that point?
Keep Damon in left?
granderson center
dh by committe?
“Nice analysis, and excellent question to Brian. I am sure you must have triggered an alarm in his head to start working and to just hold contemplating on everything the Yankees achieved in 2009 since the new goal is to defend the title and repeat it in 2010. Get a great time to defend the WS championship title is the goal, so Brian, it is time to step up and work.”
If you think Cashman has not already thought about that despite the BS answer he gave to Chad then you’re fooling yourself. Anything that Cashman says publicly right now has to be taken with a grain of salt for what effect he’s trying to convey here.
That is not going to be the yankees line up next year but if it were it would be a significant problem and would make it unlikely that they would win the division.
The problem with that line up is that there is no fault tolerance built in. That line up would be entirely dependent on Jeter and Posada staying healthy and producing like they did this year, Alex’s hip staying stable, Melky not regressing, Gardner improving, and Miranda not only being a major league talent but one who can hit left handers, and none of the regulars getting hurt.
That’s just not a very likely situation. As such, that line up would be a terrible idea to get you through a 162 game schedule, especially in the AL East.
I’ve posted before that the yankees changed the paradigm of their team last year to one that was more oriented around pitching and defense. And it was that pitching that got them through the post season.
But it wasn’ the pitching per se that got them through the regular season. The pitching in the regular season wasn’t as good as it looked to be going into the season due to Wang’s injury, Joba’s inconsistency, and AJ’s inconsistency.
It was the offense that allowed the yankees to thrive and win the division easily.
Winning the division easily is what allowed the yanks to rest CC and Pettite in September. And that rest was what helped them win the World Series.
The yankees would do well to upgrade the offense going into next year because of the age and injury risk of a number of their key players. There’s no way they should take a step back.
fortunately Cashman gets paid by the Steinbrenners to improve the team in 2010 and defend the title !
When will Jesus arrive as DH?
Would not he be right for the 5 spot?
swisher & the bottom 3 in that lineup would kill us
swisher,melky,ajax,gardner
if ajax,gardner struggle we are done
we have no 2 hitter or leadoff hitter
we need at least a solid # 2 hitter or leadoff hitter
With this lineup, anytime Alex’s bat threatens to get in the kind of otherworldly groove that’s capable of carrying the team for a month, opposing teams will simply start walking him twice a game at minimum (including any time he’s up with RISP).
CB -
Obviously that won’t be the Yankee lineup – even if they lost both Matsui and Damon they would bring in some replacement for them rather than go with an outfield of Melky, Gardner, Jackson and Swisher at DH
This was just an experiment in fun is all…a worst case scenario if you will.
Wouldn’t you put Melky in left and keep Swish in right?
Zach,
You want the better arm in RF rather than LF – that’s Melky.
Frankly in that scenario I want Swish at DH and an OF I know is going to catch the ball since the team won’t score as many runs, run prevention becomes a primary concern.
Derek Jeter, SS
Robinson Cano, 2B
Mark Teixeira, 1B
A-Rod, 3B
Jorge Posada, C
Jason Bay, LF
Swisher, DH
Melky, RF
Brett, CF
I think Cashman will surprise us by getting Jason Bay. That leaves Cashman to get a “bigger bat” for a more regular DH. I heard Giambi is looking for a job….
I assume Melky would be in right because of his arm.
But, nevermind, that’s not the OF or DH.
Swisher’s a better defender than Bay, who I’m pretty sure we are not getting.
Does Shelly “Slam” Duncan have any shot to make this team?
Scary lineup….in a bad way. Add to that the possibility of Joba and Hughes in the starting rotation and Phil Coke Brian Bruney and Melancon anchoring the bullpen’s 6th and 7th (jury’s out on robertson and marte for the 8th inning as well) and you pretty much have a team struggling to get to the playoffs.
That OF looks anemic offensively.
yeah i can’t see us getting bay. I don’t see us trading for any outfielder before the situation with Roy Halladay is resolved.
Yanks can’t afford to empty the farm and give the Sox the upper hand with prospects.
I think the Melk Man earned a full time spot. True we will lose some power w/o Damon, but is it worth spending 17mil a year to lock up the streaky Bay or Holliday. Bay is overrated and fits in perfectly with Boston, JD Drew Part II. I’d definitely resign Damon, give him 2 years with an option to keep Borris quiet. Let him DH 1/3+ of the time and give AJax and Gard a chance. If it works out we can have a nasty and finally athletic outfield in the future.
Duncan cannot hit anything but a FB down the middle. He will be released off the 40 man roster.
if NYY did nothing this off season except aquire Curtis Granderson, i would be ecstatic with the front office.
Curtis Granderson is the player to target.
Why Not…
Jeter – SS
Swish – LF
Tex – 1b
Alex – 3b
Jesus Montera (sp?)DH
Posada – C
Cano – 2b
Melky – RF
Jackson/Gardner – CF
So if thats the lineup then the starting rotation would be
CC
Halladay
Lackey
AJ
Pettite
with Joba and Hughes in the Bullpen..beacuse with a lineup like that you’d have to win alot of those 2-1 and 1-0 games.
moan:
due to the injury Jesus ‘Montera’ incurred last year, he is not ready for the MLB.
my lineup would look slightly different
Jeter
Cano
Tex
ARod
Posada
Miranda
Swish
Leche
Gritty
i disagree w/Will about the #2 hitter needing to take pitches in front of Tex. Jeter was a notorious early in the count hitter…the reason why i think Cano would thrive in that spot is he should see a steady diet of fastballs hitting behind Jeet and ahead of Tex and ARod and Robbie is the best fastball hitter on the team…keep in mind also that Cano led the majors this year batting like .470 or something on the first pitch
Cash is not getting Bay and doesn’t want Bay
That lineup would be just fine for practically any team… except the Yankees. They simply cannot trot out that group and expect to repeat as champs. They’d be lucky to get the wild card slot. I’m all for utilizing in-house parts — say Melky and Gardner (or A-Jax if he’s ready) — but they either need to bring in a power bat (Granderson) or keep Damon or Matsui. And as much as I love Damon and Matsui and appreciate what they’ve brought to the team — no one is better with the fans than Damon, chatting, signing autographs, acknowledging the crowd, and he’s there for the media,too, win or lose; and Matsui is just a class act — I don’t know that there’s room or need to have both of them back next season. Funny thing is, I think Damon might be the more valuable guy, just because he can actually play the field, but if Boras is really thinking a four-year deal, we might see Matsui DH-ing.
Chad, that was a very good question.
I understand with the players available Swisher might bat no. 2, but, in my opinion, he strikes out way too much. That makes it hard to run with two strikes and does not get the lead off man over.
Gardner batting reminds me of some of the little league swings I used to see. With that swing he better hit hit the ball on the ground because it isn’t going over anyone’s head.
I will view this post as one to remind us all that this is not the team we will see in the spring–I keep telling myself that.
Craw, I mean that because of the WS, the Yankees are behind…..other teams have probably already met and layed out a plan of action. The Yankees haven’t done that yet – that’s why I say they are behind.
I don’t see any way the Yankees get Granderson without giving up Jackson. I hate to give up on him – and I hesitate about making the deal simply because a platoon player isn’t worth giving up good prospects for (and basically it appears that CG is a platoon player waiting to happen). I also hesitate because we have almost no position prospects close to the majors in the minors except for Montero and Jackson – not one of these players will be able to help us in the next few years. Granted, Jackson appears to be at least a year away, but it’s not like Granderson that young anymore. The idea of acquiring him is appealing, but there are definitely some negatives.
I wonder what the Yankees plans are for McAllister…He’s maybe a year away from the majors and he seems to be a pretty good prospect.
Jeter SS
Holliday LF (can bat 5th and Cano 2nd debatable)
Teixeira 1b
Rodriguez 3b
Posada C
Swisher Dh
Cano 2b
Cabrera RF
Gardner Cf
Although I have never been a fan of signing Holliday (even though he is a beast) if the price is right it should be done. I am not sold on Granderson and would hate to give up a bunch of prospects to get him when Holliday can be signed. I feel that this lineup would improve the defense, add speed, and most importantly allow the Yanks to hold on to the prospects. I understand that Melky/Gardner in the outfield is risky but if one fails over the first few months AJAX is still in the organization or Swisher can go out to RF and perhaps Montero will be ready to DH. Why trade away the prospects on Granderson when a superior outfielder can be signed. The way it looks now CC AJ Pettitte (assuming he returns) Joba and Hughes are the starters. I personally am all for giving Joba and Hughes a shot to earn rotation spots. This makes it all more important to keep all of the prospects just in case they fail.
It wouldn’t be smart to DH Montero in the bigs. He needs to catch in Scranton and find out of he can be the long term answer there.
This is inderesting because it shows what the team would look like with no additions. Of course if no one else made any additions the Yanks would be as good as anyone.
The only natural # 2 hitter is Jeter so you would have to consider Gardner/Jeter at the top. A 5,6,7 of Posada, Cano and Swisher is very good if everyone is healthy.
In this scenario the likely DH would be a Miranda/Duncan platoon unless you decided to play Austin Jackson and DH Swisher.
Fortunately the Yanks will make at least two additions to this version of the club.
Of course if you think the lineup is a concern, what about the rotation without Pettite (under this same scenario). Joba, Gaudin and Hughes as the No. 3-5 starters?
Trade Cano and sign Figgins to play 2nd base. He’s a perfect #2 hitter.
I don’t like Swisher batting 2nd – he’s got power and it’s wasted with him at the top.
Shelly Duncan is a much better player than he gets credit for. He can certainly hit more than just fastballs and if given a chance to play i think could surprise some people. I remember us winning world series games with Chad Curtis and Shane Spencer being contributors to the teams and Shelly is a better player than both those guys
Rebecca,
Not sure if you are reading the blog this morning but I just read your interview with the NY Daily News and it was really fantastic. Your knowledge of baseball and skill at writing is better than 99% of sportswriters today. Great job!
Chad,
Good post, this really puts it in perspective that the Yankees need to pursue offense in this offseason.
I agree with Pat M from the previous thread, trade for Granderson, move Melky to RF and sign Matsui. That seems like a very good plan although I’m not sure if Cashman can get Granderson he will likely be very expensive.
Let’s say that plan comes together, this would be the lineup (in my opinion):
Jeter SS
Granderson CF
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui DH
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swisher LF
Cabrera RF
Then maybe when a lefty is starting just flip Swisher and Granderson in the lineup. If that trade were to go down I also think the Yanks would need a right-handed CF to spell Granderson once in awhile.
Replace Gardner with Granderson and Miranda with a real major leaguer and our pitching can carry that lineup provided Pettitte returns and Joba is dealt in a package for Halladay or Edwin Jackson.
betsy,
Damon had a lot of power in 2009 but I don’t think it was wasted with him hitting 2nd.
The benefit of Swisher hitting second is his massive OBP and the number of pitches he sees. He doesn’t translate as well down in the lineup because his AVG is usually very low and thus he doesn’t drive in as many runs. If he’s near the top he can do what he does best, get on base and get driven in.
Has Andy filed for free agency yet? Just curious…
Two words: Curtis Granderson.
Actually, signing Holliday wouldn’t be that bad of an idea. At first glance, I say no to him, but taking a second look, it isn’t so bad. He is the best outfielder available, and with no player cost to obtain. It would allow the Yanks to let Matsui AND Damon walk if they choose, that is 26M off the payroll. Holliday would add 14M? He wants more than that now, but I don’t think there is a single team that would give him a penny over 14M in this economic climate. Also, he is just 30 now.
On the down side, you would lose 2 big lefty bats, and even if the per year isn’t bad, Hollday would probably require a 6 year committment. If he could be had for 14M or less, though, it is possible to still bring back Matsui for @6M.
Come on chad.You did the Austria thing.Now you have to do a the Dutch report as well haha:
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1001/AD.....ries.dhtml
“Trade Cano and sign Figgins to play 2nd base. He’s a perfect #2 hitter.”
Brilliant
CB, of course that lineup wouldn’t work, but I think we still have a terrific foundation. Jeter may not hit .334 again (but who knows? He’s always capable), but there’s no reason to think he will not have another terrific year. We can count on Tex, Cano and Alex. Swisher will never hit for average, but he’ll put up his usual #s. I don’t see why Posada can’t have another good year. So, that’s 6. We’ll have some sort of #2 (or leadoff hitter – if Damon is gone, we don’t necessarily need a #2 as Jeter can fill that spot) and a #5/DH. I’ve no doubt the Yankees have a plan – and it does not include a lineup with Melky, Gardner, Miranda. Melky is fine in CF for now….if he can just even have the same type of year batting 9th, we’re ok.
I’m kind of torn because while I would like Damon and Matsui back, I recognize that the Yankees absolutely need to get younger and not doing so this year is just going to delay the inevitable. It’s why I think the Yankees are going to take a “take it or leave it” stance with Damon and Matsui…..One good thing is that Cash is pretty good at making trades, so even though there aren’t a lot of FA possibilities, you can always do something with another team.
The age of the lineup is why I am very hesitant about trading Jackson (Montero is obviously not going anywhere)…….If we trade him, we’ve got Montero and that’s it as far as position prospects go (that are close to the majors).
Good point about the pitching……CC will be a stud, again. I’m fine with AJ….I thought he was the key last year, but this year I think it’s Joba. Joba has got to be good (not necessarily great)……I’m still not sure what kind of year Andy will have next year – I don’t think he will be as good as he was this year, but then I can never count him out.
I don’t see any way the Yankees get Granderson without giving up Jackson. I hate to give up on him
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betsy:
to date, have refused to part with Austin Jackson via any trades mentioned on this site. However, in a trade for Granderson i have no objection. Why? The player coming back to us, is a young athletic position player (CF). More importantly, Austin Jackson doesn’t have a ceiling of Curtis Granderson. Far as the LH splits, that is a fair debate/criticism. However, i believe once Granderson is working with Kevin Long his production will closer mirror his stats of 2 years ago, rather than last season.
Granderson is no more than a platoon outfielder due to his horrible splits against left handers. He’s not worth trading for. We should go after Figgins, he’s ideal for the top of the order, and can spare A-rod a few games at 3rd.
Shelley Duncan is a AAAA player and nothing more.
OFF TOPIC
Doreen
Fergie plays a prostitute in Nine. Her song and Kate’s are supposedly the best in the movie and I believe I heard they both were written new for the movie.
Here’s a preview if you want to hear Kate sing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-H7mTeqnlM
Patrick, good point…….but how did Swisher do at the #2 spot this year? Why would his lack of average benefit him at the top of the lineup and detract in the middle/bottom?
Vinny-b, the only thing is that I don’t consider 29 young. It’s not old, but who it’s not young….it’s sort of on the precipice. At most he’d have a few years before he’d start going downhill and then we would still need a CF.
“Trade Cano and sign Figgins to play 2nd base. He’s a perfect #2 hitter.”
Brilliant
———————
maybe. However, in fairness am willing to bet NYY would win more championships with Figgins and Roy Halladay on the 24-man roster, and Cano in Toronto.
I don’t see Bay being a good fit with the team, his defense isn’t great, and while he can hit, it seems he is a product of Fenway as much as anything else. I think he is way over-rated due to his hitting hot when he first came over, and during some Yankee/Sox games.
If Cashman is looking at any FA bat not named Damon or Matsui, I think Holliday is the better talent.
I’m not sold on Holliday either, though I do like the way he plays the game. Even despite the dropped ball during the playoffs, it just seems he is the more solid player all around.
Granderson (via trade) would probably be the better option of these three players being talked of, as he would be an upgrade defensively up the middle. (That was a big key to the early dynasty years of the Yankee teams.)
How soon everyone forgets how poorly Holliday hit in the American League if he’s smart he’ll stay in the NL. He wants the Tex contract. It’ll be a long 8 years and wasted $180mil if he performs anywhere close to the what he did with A’s. .270-.280 hitting corner outfielders who hit 85-100 RBIs are a dime a dozen and do not warrant such a contract. (See Abreu, Drew, Sheffield, etc–when was the last time they made a big impact over a long period of time?)
And Figgins? Yea…no.
Figgins sucks. Granderson has been one of the 3 best CF’s in baseball over the past three years. If the Yanks can get him, they should.
“Patrick, good point…….but how did Swisher do at the #2 spot this year? Why would his lack of average benefit him at the top of the lineup and detract in the middle/bottom? ”
I’m not sure what Swisher’s numbers were when he hit #2 this season. He didn’t really play there all that much.
In my opinion, having a low average hurts when he’s hitting 6 or 7 because generally there would be people on base when he gets to bat. A walk in that situation is fine but not really conducive to driving in runs. Then, if he gets his walk it’s up to the 8 and 9 hitters to drive him in which isn’t a very high probability thing.
However, if he hits 2nd he doesn’t necessarily have to get hits to drive in runs, he just has to get on base and let the guys behind him hit him in. And in this case the guys behind him are proven hitters and much better at driving in runners.
If we don’t sign Matsui, maybe Hinske would do as a DH, mostly platooning against LH pitchers.
“maybe. However, in fairness am willing to bet NYY would win more championships with Figgins and Roy Halladay on the 24-man roster, and Cano in Toronto.”
Why is Toronto going to trade Halladay to the Yankees for Cano+, when they have Aaron Hill playing second?
One thing I can promise you-if Figgins is on this team, prepare for a lot of disappointment. He has played less than 100 games total at 2nd in 8 years, and is not as good defensively at any position as everybody seems to think. He has hit reasonably good against NY, but that is about it. And, despite hitting atop a strong Angels lineup, with all his speed, he has scored 100 runs exactly twice in 8 seasons. He is also a career 76% basestealer which is good, but not elite, and he is 32 years old.
Wade, what Matt Holliday wants and what he gets in a contract are two different things. He isn’t Teixeira, despite the talk from his agent.
I think he is the better talent as far as Bay and he are concerned. His hitting in the AL is far too small a sample size to judge how he will do.
Most are projecting he gets up to $100M total.
Agree about Figgins. A couple of years ago I think I would have been more for acquiring him, but no longer.
Betsy,
Granderson turns 29 next year, if the Yankees trade for him then they’ll have him under contract during four of his prime years. Which are 29-32 years of age. During those four years, personnel turnover in the Yankee organization will be a lot.
“How soon everyone forgets how poorly Holliday hit in the American League if he’s smart he’ll stay in the NL. ”
Most of that is because he had no one around him in Oakland, so there was no reason to ever pitch to him.
I say no to both Figgins and Holliday. Both are hugely overated. Holliday was awful when he was in Oakland. And I really don’t get everyone’s obsession with Figgins. He is okay.
I agree with mark from Tampa. If you think about it holliday fills both rolls that Damon and matsui do with one player. He plays lf and he could hit behind arod. One player would be cheaper than two in the short term they could use the other money for pitching. I’m not nearly as down on holliday as some. He’s a really good all around player
I really think the Yankees get Johnny and/or Sui back. Damon is not going to get a 4 year contract anywhere else, and Sui is not able to play the outfield, despite how they are packaging him.
I hope Andy decides soon.
If your going to trade prospects . ask yourself this question.
Who’s going to give you a better chance of winning,
Roy Halladay or Curtis Granderson.
Both will help . .But Halladay puts you over the top.
Wow. Angels are talking of trading for Granderson. Doesn’t it seem like the Angels are always looking at adding outfielders?
I can see him in that organization, but it just struck me as odd being that they really don’t have the need for him.
Patrick: Thank you!
Halladay will also cost a lot more than Granderson.
Additionally, the need right now is offense, not pitching.
Looking at the lineup Chad just posted, if Granderson is acquired who does he replace in the lineup? Brett Gardner, a guy that if he’s lucky will hit at replacement level in 2009. Who does Halladay replace? Phil Hughes?
I think the difference between Granderson and Gardner is greater than the difference between Halladay and Hughes. Add in the extra cost for Halladay (prospects and money) means that I’d much rather target Granderson.
Thanks, pat.
That looks like a great production number.
Makes sense that they would write some new songs.
Great article on Joe Girardi and Chicago:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
Holliday is a very good player in either league. In June and July for the A’s he hit over .300. The guy can hit and is pretty athletic. He would make the team better than with Damon. But, more expensive to be sure.
The Yankees, I believe, are waiting on a potential Halladay trade before they spend their money or trade their chips.
I can see Halladay being the one to go after in the trade market. I also think he would help the pitching of Burnett some, as he would have his mentor back.
It also helps out the bullpen tremendously. CC and Halladay can go deep in almost every start. AJ can give some depth in a number of his games. Pettitte is good for 6 innings most games. That gives a lot less exposure to the weaker relief pitchers.
Still, while pitching is a critical part, you need bats to provide the balance. You don’t win games if all you have is pitching, just look at the Giants.
Imagine the confusion of the announcers if the Yankees had both Halladay and Holliday… Sterling would be a mess. lol.
Jeter-SS
Melky-LF
Tex-1B
AROD-3B
Jorge-C
Swish-RF
Cano-2B
Shelly Duncan/Juan Miranda-DH
Gardner-CF
Patrick.
Halladay wouldn’t be replacing anyone. He’d be our #2 behind CC. everyone else would be pushed back a slot. The pitching staff does have some ? marks. Pettite is another year older , and we dont’ know about Joba or Hughes.
The allure and attraction of Granderson is understandable. He’s a good CF’er. But its Pitching that wins.
good post Rebecca, esp the part about Cano. I don’t understand why people are so willing to trade away the players who took us (Yankee fans) to the WS.
B O R A S busted at his own game,read for yourself.Posted by Mike Silva’s New York baseball digest.
http://www.nybaseballdigest.com
Frank Russo reports: SF not a fit for Damon.
Pay attention to the GM’s quote,scroll down to thread,right now it’s #2
The more I look at the Matsui situation, t mor tink he will be back, and at a really good price, as long as the Yanks want him back. He is AL only, and limited at that:
Boston-Ortiz
Tampa-Won’t spend
Toronto-Lind
Balt-Luke Scott, won’t spend
Minn.-Kubel
Detroit-unloading payroll, Ordonez
Cle-won’t spend, Hafner
KC-won’t spend
Seattle-Griffey
Oakland-won’t spend, Jack Cust
That leaves LA, Texas, and Chicago as possibilities. FA DHs include Delgado, Thome, Huff, Vlad, Dye, Sweeney, Sheffield, Giambi, Blalock, as well as Damon and Matsui. That is lot of DHs for 3 spots. Those 3, plus the Yankees, should have their pick for the price they want. Some of them will probably be forced to retire, as well.
Mike RI,
Pitching wins in the playoffs, offense gets you to the playoffs. The Yanks had the best offense in the league and the most wins, I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
And of course Halladay is replacing someone. With Pettitte re-signing (which he is likely to do) someone has to leave the rotation – Joba or Hughes. Is the difference between Joba/Hughes and Halladay really worth 3 top prospects and a boatload of money?
Compare the benefit and loss of a Halladay trade to a Granderson trade and I think going after Granderson has more benefit and less loss.
Mark in Tampa-I agree about Matsui, I think he’s back. At this point, I’ll be surprised if they don’t bring him back. I think Damon’s coming back too, but I have a feeling those negotiations are going to drag on for a while.
Have any of you actually looked up Holliday’s numbers in the AL?
.286/.378/.454/.831
How is that terrible? And it was only 93 games. So according to some of you I should judge Holliday over his 93 games in Oakland over his 854 game career? Smart.
Blake and Mark in Tampa-
As I said earlier Holliday might end up making the most sense.(of course if the price comes down which it will) He wont cost us the prospects that Granderson will even if it is a salary dump by Detroit. Some other team will surely be aiming for Granderson and to be honest I think he is a very good player but his Ks and lefty pitching stats are a little scary to me. I believe Holliday is a better all around player. Hang on to the prospects just in case Hughes and Joba fail as starters or trade the prospects for a good starter even before spring training. I usually shy away from the big signing and prefer to develop from within but if it means trading for Granderson or signing Holliday the choice for me is easy.
PS to anyone that thinks Cano in a Roy Halladay deal works please see Aaron Hill. You need a third team in that deal.
bmarv-
I agree. Its a small sample size (1/2 a year) in a new league. Plus it was in Oakland Colliseum with a really weak lineup around him.
The market for Matt Holliday is still not yet defined. And that’s going to have a lot of influence over what the yankees do this off season.
Holliday is not a guy to sign to a $120M+ deal. But it’s very unclear where the demand for him at that money is going to come from.
Boston is definitely the obvious choice. Holliday’s skill set fits very well with what Boston values. But if they sign Bay then Holliday’s market collapses. Where is the demand coming from? Can’t see the angels, dodgers, giants, white sox, tigers, or cubs making a play for him. Perhaps the mets but they’ll only do it for very reduced dollars and at those prices the yankees will get interested.
The yankees aren’t going to be very elastic on price for Holliday. But if his market deflates he could become very attractive.
He’s not a $20M/yr guy especially at 6-7 yrs. But he is a $15-17M guy for 4-5 years.
What a great question, Chad. And Miranda is a very interesting DH choice against righties. Supposing this were really the opening day line-up and at home, I like Melky in LF and Swish in RF just b/c of the ground in left to cover at the Stadium. I think I also like the idea of Melky batting 9th – eventually. I know the Jeter double play argument, but I think that given Gardner’s potential for a better OBP, you want him up more often than Melk during the course of the entire season. Finally, this line-up isn’t imposing without Godzilla and Damon, so that point is well-taken.
You are right bmarv, there really isn’t anything conclusive that says Holliday will stink the the AL. He wasn’t that bad, outside of a month or two and it’s not a significant sample size to make any conclusions. In all likelihood he would be a very good hitting (and fielding) LF in the AL.
However, I simply don’t think he’s worth the money he will want. If the Yanks can get him at 5 years and under $100 mil I’d consider it, otherwise he can go play for the Mets or something.
Braden
you beat me to that post literally.I figured Boras was floating competition for Damon.A team would be a fool to offer him 4 yrs,with his arm and bad leg issues.
Unless Cashman does a complete 180 or the Jays give Halliday away, I don’t see Cashman trading for Doc. This is exactly the kind of deal he avoided in 2007 with Santana. Cashman has said numerous times he doesn’t like to make deals where he gives up talent and money. The NYY would have to give up a lot of young talent and then sign Doc to big $ and multi-years. Cashman didn’t do it for Santana, I don’t see him doing it for Doc who is older than Santana was in 2007. The NYY would like to have Doc, but they don’t NEED him, unlike last year when they really needed CC to get back in the WS chase.
Cashman was on M.Kay show last week. He said when you have guys with SP stuff (he mentioned Joba, Hughes and Ace) you should try to develop them into SP because it costs so much to acquire somebody else’s SP.
I had posted earlier this year about how Holliday was costing himself huge dollars by his play in Oakland. However, he may have made up a bunch of that is St. Loo.
The concern with Holliday was never whether he could hit AL pitching, it was whether he could hit outside of Coors. When he moved from a very unfriendly hitter’s park to a fair park, he did very well. Also, the hitters around him in ST L are more similar to the kind of support he would have in NY.
If he demands Teixeira money, pass. But, if he could be had for @6 years at 80-95M, I think that would be hard to pass up. Also, nobody but the Yankees or Boston, or maybe the Mets would offer more than that.
braden
Loved the quote,but loved what the Yankees org in Tampa says about Damon if he really loves NY and wants to return,they will stand firm,I love it!!
Pat -
Compare the benefit and loss of a Halladay trade to a Granderson trade and I think going after Granderson has more benefit and less loss.
i disagree !.
bay or holliday would be perfect
if we can get 1 for 3 yrs/45 million or 4 yrs 60 it makes sense
damon & matsui cost 26 million combined so if we can get bay or holliday for 15 or 16 million we save 10 or 11 million a year & can dh miranda/nady/posada
our lf production increases to compensate for the loss of dh production if any,we are younger & better defensively & we lose no prospects
payroll around 191 million with pettitte
trade for halladay or sign lackey & payroll is the same
braden
thanks for the link,always knew Boras was blowing smoke on Damon.Sounds like the Yankees org and Cashman have him read too.
“thanks for the link,always knew Boras was blowing smoke on Damon.Sounds like the Yankees org and Cashman have him read too.”
Sounds like it is time for Damon to dump Boras, and seek advice from Warren Buffet.
No matter where they go Gardner, Miranda, and Shelly Duncan have no future as Yankees.
Package at least one of them in a Detroit deal for Granderson, and Edwin Jackson.
Kevin Long can work with Granderson with opposite field hitting and Dave Eiland can refine Jackson’s pitches.
Keep Matsui another year and let Scott Boras continue his greed pitch for Damon’s services.
Let Hinske go and sign Hairston and Marlon Byrd.
Damn, did I miss GTLU already?!
“i disagree !. ”
Ok.
Juan Miranda is organizational depth, no more. Swisher will never bat second.
Sorry Chad but the Yanks would not play Swisher in left and Melky in right, makes no sense with the way Yankee Stadium is built with all the extra ground that needs to be covered in left.
Mike RI,
You can not compare trading for Halladay and Granderson. This is not a one or the other at all. They are completely different scenarios.
To get Halladay you have to give up 2 of your best prospects to even start the conversation (that means Hughes/Joba + Montero and add to that). Halladay also only has 1 more year left until free agency. That means to make the trade worthwhile you have to extend a 32 yr old pitcher for 4-5 years at 20 million a year.
Granderson could probably be had without including Joba, Hughes, or Montero. He is also only 29 years old and under a very affordable contract for 3 more years. One year of Halladay would cost about the same as 3 years of Granderson.
New task – assume the following: Bay, Holliday and Lackey are off the market. Damon, Andy and Matsui leave. Adding FA’s only fill out the holes.
For example:
Jeter – SS
Winn – LF
Tex – 1b
Alex – 3b
Posada – C
Ankiel – CF
Swisher – DH
Cano – 2b
Melky – RF
Rotation:
CC, AJ, Sheets, Joba, Hughes
ESPNs Bill Simmons is one of the biggest Boston homers and his column today expresses succinctly what many Boston sports fans might be feeling right now:
“Welcome to my sports world in 2009: a place where Manning is feared, Kobe is a champ, A-Rod is clutch, the Yankees have good chemistry, and I have no idea whether the Patriots are tough enough to beat the Colts.”
Chip
November 13th, 2009 at 11:36 am
New task – assume the following: Damon, Andy and Matsui leave.
************
Don’t want to face that possibility
I agree with some here. Bring Montero to Spring training and see if he can DH. By having him there, you also have a third catcher behind posada/cervelli…
Teach AJax to hit off-speed pitches too. I get the feeling in AAA, they just dont seem to focus on hitting off-speed stuff.
Duncan has been there forever and cannot hit a curveball.
But my understanding is that montero can hit like a beast, but isnt a great catcher. So free it up for Romine and Co. and have Montero DH.
Lets Go Yanks -
My point is . Why trade Ajax and a few pitching prospects to Detroit ( if thats what there asking for ). When in fact you can use those trade chips for Halladay.
If your Boston or the Angels or even Mets. Your sitting there waiting and PRAYING for the Yanks to empty the farm for Granderson. The less chips the Yanks have the less chance and impact they’ll have in blocking the Sox or Angels , in getting someone like a Halladay.
And yes I would give up Joba or Hughes in order to get Halladay. And i’m not worried about locking him up a for 4 years. He’s only 32 not 52
Granderson is an appealing player . But lets face it , he can’t hit lefties. and we’ll have to get someone to platoon with him.
I can live with someone out in left like Winn or Cameron with Doc on the mound.
betsy
November 13th, 2009 at 10:18 am
Shelley Duncan is a AAAA player and nothing more.
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the same thing was said about Casey Blake and Ryan Ludwick…how’d that turn out!
Mike -
I’m with you – I would rather have Halladay than Granderson. Pitching wins championships – If the Yankees wanted a player like Granderson they would have tried to sign Soriano when he was a FA.
Patrick, thanks for the explanation – that makes sense.
Craw, good point. I guess even during the off-season of a WS season, I worry,lol. I admit I’m intrigued by CG and he’s also apparently a terrific guy….maybe Kevin Long can work wonders with him as far as hitting lefties. He changed Alex’s swing and he’s in the process of revamping Swishers’s…..
To be fair to Holliday, Oakland is an awful place to play, with all the foul territory. I never really thought about it much, but this year it hit me how annoying that stadium is…..I just wanted the Yankees to get in and get out as quickly as possible.
Patrick, thanks for the explanation – that makes sense.
Craw, good point. I guess even during the off-season of a WS season, I worry,lol. I admit I’m intrigued by CG and he’s also apparently a terrific guy….maybe Kevin Long can work wonders with him as far as hitting lefties. He changed Alex’s swing and he’s in the process of revamping Swishers’s…..
___
And Cano’s.
Does anyone have a spreadsheet that lists the Yankees 2009 salary obligations?
Something I’ve wondered…..
Is Tino being groomed to be the new “Reggie” in the Yankees organization (more sizzle than substance) or is he being groomed for a more meaningful position?
If your Boston or the Angels or even Mets. Your sitting there waiting and PRAYING for the Yanks to empty the farm for Granderson. The less chips the Yanks have the less chance and impact they’ll have in blocking the Sox or Angels , in getting someone like a Halladay.
————————–
You are not emptying the farm for Granderson. You would use a completely different set of players to go after them. A trade for Granderson would be centered around AJAX. A trade for Halladay would be centered around Montero + Hughes/Joba. You are not using the same chips in the trades. Again, they are two completely different scenarios.
Trading for Granderson would have little to no impact on trading for Halladay. Regardless, trading for Halladay goes against Brian Cashman’s entire philosophy. He is not going to empty the farm and give out another huge contract at the same time. Halladay creates HUGE holes on your team and in the minor leagues and at the same time straps you for cash to fill those holes.
If Boston wants to empty their farm system and then give a huge contract to Halladay, I have no problem with it. They are an aging team with a lot of holes and a ton of upcoming free agents. They will then have a lot less money to fill those holes and no prospects to step up either.
Again Chip comparing Soriano to Granderson. They are not at all similar players except for the strike outs. However, you are the only person who keeps comparing them
betsy
but but…..
Wasn’t it great how CC( who historically pitched poor in Qakland,)conquered the beast,and won there last season?
I agree – the Yankees are not going to trade Joba or Hughes for Halladay. I wouldn’t do it either. I don’t believe the price is going to come down so far that the Yankees can get the guy without giving up major pieces of their future so, IMO, Doc is a pipe dream.
I would not install Montero as DH even if I thought he were MLB-ready. The Yankees want him to remain at catcher- he has to catch in AAA. Speaking of Montero, I think he’s struggling big-time in winter ball, so he’s not close to being ready in 2010.
I thought Gardner looked overmatched in the post season and I don’t hink he is a part of our team next season. If he is I think he is a 4th or 5th OF at best playing spottingly and pinch running.
If we don’t sign Matsui I wouldn’t mind taking a hard look at Delgado who if I remember correctly always wanted to be a Yankee. He could Dh and play 1B when we give Tex a day off or when he DH’s.
Gardner CF
Jeter SS
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Cano 2B
Posada C
Swisher DH
Cabrera RF
Jackson LF
Younger, more athletic, better outfield defense & cheaper. There you go.
Boogie Down- Hot Stove
November 13th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Juan Miranda is organizational depth, no more. Swisher will never bat second.
****************************************************
it amazes me how little most of you seem to know about Juan Miranda and how wrong most of you are about how he’s viewed internally by the Yanks.
Granderson will make roughly $ 25 M the next three years (counting his 2013 buyout). Holliday will probably cost twice that.
So which prospect(s) are worth $ 25 Million that cannot be included in a Granderson trade offer? Just askin’
Is there any way to get him without giving up Austin Jackson? I don’t think there’s any way Montero, Joba or Hughes would be included… but Jackson is likely a deal breaker for Detroit.
They are not going to rush Montero to the majors just so he can DH. He will start the season at AAA.
LGY -
Soriano and Granderson – both can hit around 30 HR a season, both can steal around 30 bases a season, both strike out a ton. Seems pretty similar to me.
Betsy –
Not only is Oakland a terrible offensive park because of all the foul territory but with that group of misfits and hasbeens around him there was no reason for any pitcher to throw Holliday a strike.
lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) -
-
You are not emptying the farm for Granderson. You would use a completely different set of players to go after them. A trade for Granderson would be centered around AJAX. A trade for Halladay would be centered around Montero + Hughes/Joba. You are not using the same chips in the trades. Again, they are two completely different scenarios.
-i disagree. Any trade for Halladay will not include Montero. Joba or Hughes plus Ajax and another prospect or two would be enough. thats why its not a smart move to dump Ajax or any other prospects for Granderson.
-Trading for Granderson would have little to no impact on trading for Halladay
It would have an impact. we’d have no power in blocking the Sox or Angels
If Boston wants to empty their farm system and then give a huge contract to Halladay, I have no problem with it. They are an aging team with a lot of holes and a ton of upcoming free agents. They will then have a lot less money to fill those holes and no prospects to step up either.
- Boston still has a good team ! A staff of Beckett , Lester and Halladay would be lethal. not to mention a decent core of Pedroia, Ellsbury, Youk ,and Martinez. Although they don’t make as much money as the Yankees. The Sox make good money and could easily fill some holes.
As a Cardinals fan lurking, the Yankees can sign Holliday for all I care. Of course, I am a bit jaded from his performance in the playoffs.
I kind of expect the market for Holliday to shrink over time. I see anywhere from a low range of $96 MIL/6 to a high end of Soriano type money, $136 MIL/8. Realistically, I would expect the team of Holliday/Boras to be very happy with any offer north of $100 MIL.
I tired of Holliday towards the end of the regular season, and his playoff performance pretty much clinched it for me. As the lights got brighter, Holliday’s performance faded. Game 1 was bad enough, taking three consecutive called strikes when he had a chance to break the game wide open. Of course, we all know what happened in Game 2. Torre continually walked Pujols to face Boras’ proclaimed “franchise player”. With the Yankees more than likely playing in the bright lights of September, all I say is buyer beware before awarding a superstar contract. This guy would make a classic Mets player.
can we stop fantasizing about halladay? we would give up a ton of prospects for ONE YEAR, then he hits the market. and you know he wants to test the market, so what’s the point in giving up a bunch of prospects for one year? granderson on the other hand, is signed for 4 years!
“Soriano and Granderson – both can hit around 30 HR a season, both can steal around 30 bases a season, both strike out a ton. Seems pretty similar to me.”
Granderson walks about 30 more times in a season and is a good CF.
Mat-
Sample size, people were saying the same thing about A-Rod in the playoffs, how’d that turn out?
If we didn’t trade chips for Santana why would we do it for Halladay? Santana was younger. If we are looking for pitching resign Pettitte and sign Lackey.
If I was Dombrowski I wouldn’t settle for anything less than two of the Jackson/Hughes/Joba/Montero group.
I don’t have to move Granderson – there are other ways for me save money, other players who I could move who aren’t as important to my team as Granderson.
The problem for Detroit is that while they know Granderson is a fatally flawed player and likely in need of platooning – he’s also playing a prime position with no real alternative available.
It would be easier to unload Brandon Inge/Edwin Jackson and take back lesser prospects since those guys are easier to replace. I can move Inge and sign Pedro Feliz or Joe Crede for a third what I was paying Inge.
How many more times does Cash have to say our goal is to get YOUNGER for people to realize that he’s not going to resign two guys in their mid to late 30’s and then trade all of their young 20-25 year old talent(AJax,Cano,Montero,Hughes,Joba,DRob,Melancon) for more guys in their mid thirties(Halladay,Granderson(29-32) or sign the mid thirty yr old FA’s(Figgins,Bay,Holliday,Lackey) to add to a core of players in their mid thirties(ARod,Jeter,Pett,Posada,Mo,CC,AJ,Tex) and in 2 yrs end up with a team of 35-40 yr old ex-all stars comprising a $250million dollar payroll that are all untradeable….
I Like Pizza
can we stop fantasizing about halladay? we would give up a ton of prospects for ONE YEAR,
-Not if we sign him to a long term contract. Im not all in as far as trading for him…. i just don’t want to see him going to boston.
Granderson is better served as a platoon player at this point.
He is completely neutralized by left-handed pitching. That’s not an overstatement. He can’t hit lefthanders at all.
His defense is fine, but not at an elite level.
Folks need to look at the numbers more before they declare a player as a “must have.”
Trade for Granderson, he takes over in CF. Resign Matsui for 1 year, to be DH. Swisher stays in RF….Melky moves to LF.
Damon is sent packing. Granderson for Damon essentially. Younger, cheaper, better D, better pop. Overall, an upgrade.
Then in ‘11, you either look to aquire Carl Crawford for LF….or trade Austin Jackson and chips for a stud LF. I see Swisher staying in RF for 2 more years.
The days of emptying the farm are ovah!
Cashman waits for free agency.HE WORKED TOO HARD TO BUILD THE FARM BACK UP.
If he trades for Granderson(28 until march by the way,)he won’t go overboard.
I hope Damon’s position gets younger.Granderson plays CF,is better right now than Melky.
It would be a two fold upgrade.
1. position gets younger by 8 yrs
2.a seasoned more experienced leader in the outfield.
When does 32 become a person’s mid-30s.
“This guy would make a classic Mets player.”
You sure you’re not a Yankee fan? I like the way you think.
bmarv-
Not sure if this will make a lot of sense, but after watching Holliday every day for albeit a short period of time (2+ months) the same thought always came to mind…that he makes an excellent fantasy baseball player. On the actual field of play I could take him or leave him (situational type hitting and defense). Yes, he will put up numbers, but you leave the ballpark thinking they could and should be a lot better.
I also think there is a lot to the whole “Coors Field Hitter” line of thinking.
I’d definitely send Jackson in a trade for Granderson. Think about it, what is Jackson’s ceiling? Will he ever be as good as Granderson?
I’d actually say that Granderson is a good comp for Jackson (except the severe splits Granderson has). If Jackson plays to his potential he will eventually be as good as Granderson. This is not a guarantee and probably will never happen. I say, trade up and get that guy today, not in 3 years.
The question is, what will Detroit demand beyond Jackson?
And also on Granderson – because he’s under contract for another three years more teams will be willing to offer up a deal for him so the idea of getting him for Jackson and a couple of throw ins is idiocy.
Again, this is not the Johan deal where teams backed off because on top of prospects they had to give Santana a new contract; it’s also not like the Swisher trade where Chicago had no place to play a guy making 21 mil.
“Speaking of Montero, I think he’s struggling-big time in winter ball, so he’s not close to being in 2010″
Winter ball performances doesn’t tell you whether you are close to ML ready or not.
He missed 3 months of baseball cause of the injury. I’m sure his timing is off. And I believe winter ball is the equivalent to High A??? and we saw what he did at that level.
As for Roy Halladay…
NO ONE knows whether he will demand an extension in order to approve a trade, you’re just guessing. some guys do, other insist they will enter the FA market.
NO ONE knows what if any team(s) he will accept a trade to, you’re just guessing. He may not agree to any trade.
So please stop stating your opinion on those issues as fact.
Acquiring Granderson to replace Damon or Matsui IS getting younger, cheaper and more athletic.
Everyone around the country who covers baseball is reporting that Detroit MUST cut payroll and Granderson has $ 25 Million coming to him. They would save more moving other pieces but who is taking on the contracts of Ordonez or Cabrera?
Granderson a platoon player? Absurd. Granderson the same as Soriano? Arguable offensively, but Granderson is an excellent OF and Soriano is a hack.
86 –
Granderson, in his career, hits .200 against left handed pitching. If that’s not platoon level I don’t know what is.
32 today becomes 35 in year 3 of a 4 or 5yr deal…Figgins will be Juan Pierre in 3yrs a guy with no power making 10mil that can’t really play anywhere on the field
“32 today becomes 35 in year 3 of a 4 or 5yr deal…Figgins will be Juan Pierre in 3yrs a guy with no power making 10mil that can’t really play anywhere on the field”
I don’t care about Figgins, but you threw Granderson’s name in there and he’s going to be 32 at the end of his current contract.
86w183
The Blue Jays are not resigned to trading ace pitcher Roy Halladay, according to Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News. However, Feinsand believes Halladay “wants out of Toronto,” and would require an extension as part of waiving his no-trade clause.
That being said!
Granderson a platoon player? not absurd at all!. the kid can’t hit lefties. .He’s strikes out way too much . and his on base percentage stinks.
Younger Yes ! , More Athletic Yes , Upgrade over Johnny – Hardly
There might be certain lefties that Granderson might take a seat against, but for the most part he’ll still have 600 at bats.
Granderson’ best year wasn’t as good as Sori ‘02-’04 for us and damn sure wasn’t as good as what he did for the Nationals so calm down about Soriano being a bum
“Cashman waits for free agency.HE WORKED TOO HARD TO BUILD THE FARM BACK UP.”
You build a farm up to
1. Develop MLB players
2. Have pieces for trades when deals present themselves
Since the Yanks have the $$$ for free agents, #2 is as important as #1.
“Granderson a platoon player? not absurd at all!. the kid can’t hit lefties. .He’s strikes out way too much . and his on base percentage stinks.”
Kevin Long gets his BA against lefties up to .240-.250 then OBA is solved because he walks 65-75 times a season.
I meant OBP.
Crawdaddy –
That’s what I want – a big game against Boston in late September and my starting CF is on the bench because Jon Lester’s on the mound.
Of even better – World Series, Yanks vs. Phils and I’m either going with a back-up option in CF or a .200 hitter against Cliff Lee, Cole Hamels and JA Happ.
Chip —
For his speed and defense I definitely keep him in the lineup as does Jim Leyland. You don’t platoon an excellent defensive player unless he’s hopeless and Granderson isn’t. In 2008 he hit .259/.310/.429 against lefties.
I would, however hit him 8th or 9th against lefty starters. Plus the Yanks hammer LH pitching, so teams won’t go out of their way to start a lefty because of him.
Again, I would shy away from the deal if it had to include AJax, Joba, Hughes or Montero. But if he can be had for Gardner, McAllister and Hashioka or something along that line count me in.
“That’s what I want – a big game against Boston in late September and my starting CF is on the bench because Jon Lester’s on the mound.
Of even better – World Series, Yanks vs. Phils and I’m either going with a back-up option in CF or a .200 hitter against Cliff Lee, Cole Hamels and JA Happ.”
If the Yankee organization feels they can help him improve against lefty pitching then they should make the trade if the terms are reasonable. That’s it!
Crawdaddy
November 13th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
“32 today becomes 35 in year 3 of a 4 or 5yr deal…Figgins will be Juan Pierre in 3yrs a guy with no power making 10mil that can’t really play anywhere on the field”
I don’t care about Figgins, but you threw Granderson’s name in there and he’s going to be 32 at the end of his current contract.
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yeah and his game is already in decline….his ops has dropped from over .900 to .740 this past season…meaning he’s turned from Beltran to Melky in the last 2 years
We can get both Granderson and Halladay if we want. And we can probably do it without using the big 3.
We can get both Granderson and Halladay if we want. And we can probably do it without using the big 3.
I don’t think the league will approve a trade if one of the GM’s is drunk or being held at gunpoint.
“yeah and his game is already in decline….his ops has dropped from over .900 to .740 this past season…meaning he’s turned from Beltran to Melky in the last 2 years”
His decline from 2008 to 2009 in OPS is due to his horrible year against lefty pitching and has nothing to do with his age. Again, if the Yankee organization feels it can help him improve against lefty pitching so that he hits around the .250 mark then they should make the trade if what the Tigers are asking for is reasonable.
Leyland used to bench him against lhp and protected him and as he started playing all the time his #’s against lefties got progressively worse. He is basically an automatic out when a lefty is on the mound
“I would, however hit him 8th or 9th against lefty starters. Plus the Yanks hammer LH pitching, so teams won’t go out of their way to start a lefty because of him.”
Actually, I’d still consider hitting him 2nd. Having the first baseman holding Jeter at first can only help Curtis’ chances of finding a hole. One of the many reasons why I was in favor of the Damon-Jeter lineup flip this year.
I would put melky in LF and keep swisher in right
Jeter SS
Granderson CF
Cano 2B
A-Rod 3b
Tex 1B
Posada C
Swisher DH
Jackson LF
Melky RF
Why does everyone here think that the Yankees are simply a bottomless pit of $$$$$?
Oh yeah–take on Curtis Granderson, for $32 million–and have to platoon him.
Oh yeah–sign Holliday for 6 x $100 million—unsure of his ability to play in the AL.
Sure, sign Lackey at $68 million x 4 now. Then go ahead an get Carl Crawford in 2011 for 6 x $80 million and Roy Halliday for 4 x $75 million!
Why not? Let’s make the payroll $300 million!
Thankfully for the Yankees, those days are long gone. When the GM says he has no more than $25-30 million to spend this offseason, I really think he means it this time.
Aaron -
1 flaw in your logic – if you have Granderson in CF, Jackson is going to be in Detroit.
Yankees should trade Gardner for Granderson, straight up.
Deal Zach McAllister and Eduardo Nunez to Toronto for Roy Halladay
since the Twins can’t sign him, send Cervelli and Ian Kennedy to Minny for Joe Mauer and give him a 7 year 115 mil deal
Sign Lackey for 5 @ 82
Sign Holliday for 6 @ 120
lineup:
Jeter
Granderson
Tex
Alex
Mauer – C
Holliday – LF
Posada – DH
Cano – 2b
Swisher – RF
Rotation:
CC, Halladay, AJ, Lackey, Joba
I think that’ll do it, but the year after we have to sign Crawford so we can move Swisher out of RF.
Wow,hopes this comes true.
According to baseball reference.com.Cano’s most similiar batter by age( or otherwise) is….Joe Mauer
hrrp://www.baseball-reference.com
PittsburghYankeeFan
While I agree with you that the Yankees are not a bottomless pit of cash, the money is the only advantage the Yankees have. No player takes a discount to play for us, not even Jeter.
I know this is not likely, but hopefully some time in the future, the Abu Dhabi group, which bought Manchester City FC this past year and spent loads of money, could buy the Yankees. They are friends with many US celebrities, so I am sure they have heard of the Yankees.
If we could get a limitless amount of cash like 600 million a year, why not spend it. Other teams complain that we buy WS regardless of how much we spend. Why not get bottomless pockets to help distance the payrolls even further.
Yanks should not trade for Halladay. At the deadline this past season, the Jays were looking for Joba/Hughes + Montero + another player. The Yankees passed and won the World Series. Why would they make essentially the same trade (maybe lesser 3rd player) for even less service time by Halladay?
As we’ve seen, the Yankees don’t need Halladay to win the World Series. Sure pitching wins, but if you sign Andy and potentially another decent starter, you’re fine. If he’s not extended, he will be available after the season to sign as a FA and you don’t give up Joba/Hughes (who may be good enough to get another WS w/out Halladay), Montero and more.
Now if Halladay winds up in Boston, sure that would be bad. But that is the only scenario where not trading hurts the Yankees and you can’t mortgage the farm system like that on a preventative move.
Baseball is the only sport where New York is not at a disadvantage in regards to a salary cap.
And I was thinking, if they wanted to institute a fair salary cap (I would rather have none at all), they should do it relative to the city in which the teams play. The salary cap hurts the NY teams in each sport because the cost of living, state taxes, and everything that goes with living in NY make players want exorbitant amounts of money.
“Deal Zach McAllister and Eduardo Nunez to Toronto for Roy Halladay” Wow?
Is there a chance we could get Joe Mauer for a Ron Blomberg Rookie Card. I’d gladly give mine up!
CR9 -
I don’t mind the Yankees spending money – I would rather have them spend it than pocket it – I have a problem with people thinking that other teams are lining up to trade the Yankees good (even great) players for 50 cents on the dollar.
I forget who posted it, but the idea of getting Halladay and Granderson while still hanging onto three of the Jackson/Montero/Hughes/Joba group is foolish. In fact, those four alone still wouldn’t be enough to get both those players.
Bill Porter –
Hold onto that card – I’m pretty sure if you include it we can get the Twins to throw in Joe Nathan as well. He would be a useful set up guy for Mo.
Chip, not a bad lineup. If that happens, we’ll also see headlines re: the firing of the GMs for Detroit, Minnesota and Toronto.
Global . just because the Yanks won the world series shouldn’t deter them from grabbing one of ( if not the best ) pitcher in baseball.
As far as service time goes. He’s only 32. still got a lot left in the tank !
Now if Halladay winds up in Boston, sure that would be bad.
Thats a big understatement. Beckett , Halladay ,Lester .
You can’t keep all your prospects!
Very funny Chip
Chip
While I agree we are not getting handed Roy or Curtis for nothing, I am upset by that.
If the Red Sox had our Major League and Minor League system, they would not have to give up any of those 4 mentioned to get either. If the Red Sox were in our position, they would have to give up McAlister, Romine, Nova, Dunn and other lessers.
Kind of like Brandon Lyon, Casey Fossum, Jorge de la Rosa, and Michael Goss for Curt Schilling.
The equivalent of that trade for us would be Ian Kennedy, Mark Melancon, Colin Curtis, McAlister for Halladay.
Granderson is owed 23.75M over the next three years. Club option for the fourth. The lefty split is a concern but for the rest of the package (power, defense, baserunning) it’s in the ballpark, so to speak.
Preposterous proposals add nothing to the conversation. Keep it on the playground if you don’t mind.
The Yanks have more than $ 40 Million coming off the books but raises will eat up some of that, so the $ 30 M of new spending for 2010 makes sense. Those numbers assume Pettite returns.
The $ 40 M is based on Damon ($ 13), Matsui ($ 13), Nady ($ 6.5), Wang ($ 5), Molina ($ 2), Hairston ($ 2) and Hinske ($ 1.5).
Patrick,
The only issue I have with it is the back of the rotation – I mean Joba has some issues…
I’ve got the solution. Seattle loves Japanese players, we’ll send them Igawa for King Felix. They’ll do it if we eat all of Igawa’s contract I’m sure.
Chip, good idea, maybe if I donate this bag of scuffed balls to the effort we can get them to throw Morneau in as well.
A drop dead spot on argument,as to why Damon doesn’t compare to Jeter and a host (24) of other players.He breaks it down,comparing offensive production,Shortstops/Outfielders,
Jeter and Damon defensively.
http://www.bleacherreport.com
“When will Jesus arrive as DH?
Would not he be right for the 5 spot?”
I’ve heard from a couple of advanced scouts – Eric Clapton and Blind Willie Johnson. We’ve been told that Jesus is coming soon.
“Preposterous proposals add nothing to the conversation. Keep it on the playground if you don’t mind.”
You are right. I’ll keep my De La Rosa, Fossum, Lyon, and Goss for Schilling proposal to myself. We know that could never happen in real life!
CR9
From us the D’Backs wanted Nick Johnson and Juan Rivera for Schilling – the Yankees decided to send those guys to the Expos for Javy Vazquez. It is what it is. Different teams have different ratings on the same players.
Porter –
Yeah but where are we going to play Justin? Though I suppose we will need guys on the bench….
Wow I just looked at the NL gold gloves, didn’t see much discussion on here about them. What a joke, there are several snubs in there.
Despite my initial reaction of the AL awards, they are for the most part reasonable (except the exclusion of Gutierrez). The NL ones on the other hand are awful, IMO.
I’d say none of the OF’s deserved it, really should have been Mike Cameron, Nyjer Morgan and Colby Rasmus or maybe Randy Winn in there.
First base was debateable but I think Pujols was the more valuable fielder there.
Utley got ROBBED by Hudson at second and there were 4 SS’s better than Rollins.
At least Zimmerman was a reasonable choice, that dude is a vacuum at third.
I love how we’re expending so much time and energy discussing Granderson, yet he’ll most likely never end up on the Yanks. We go through this every single year.
It doesn’t take much to get us fans riled up… especially during the offseason.
Also, I love when Cash plays two of Boras’ clients against each other. Damon and Holliday. If Damon goes back to NY, then Holliday’s market is badly hurt. If Holliday goes to NY, then Damon is worse off than Abreu was last year.
Agreed that the WS win isn’t the deterrent. Yanks didn’t win in 07 but still made the right decision to hold off on Santana. The reason you don’t get him is for long term, you are better off waiting, either sign him as FA or someone else (ie King Felix, Lee, etc). WS is just support that you can win with current staff, and will be improved in 1 year based on FAs. Re: service time, I meant time Yankees get benefit of solely via trade (1 year vs. 1.5 years) and not extensions.
That would be a very bad thing to face that Boston rotation. It would guarantee Yanks sign Lackey too.
“Preposterous proposals add nothing to the conversation. Keep it on the playground if you don’t mind.”
Lighten up, I thought Chip’s post was funny
I think we all agree that the Yankees should upgrade their outfield. Damon is a 1/3 to 2/3s DH for the Yankees at this point.
You can not have Gardy and Melky in the same OF. Swish we can live with in RF; he did great last year.
So even if the Yankees bring back Damon, they need another outfielder.
I’m liking this talk about Granderson, but I would not be giving up Joba or Phil in a trade for him.
I think we’re also forgetting to package Melky, Pena + Duncan to St. Louis for Pujols. I’d make that trade.
“Speaking of Montero, I think he’s struggling big-time in winter ball, so he’s not close to being ready in 2010.”
Cite, please…
I think the difference between Schilling and Halladay is that Schilling was a blowhard that Arizona was desperate to get rid of and Jerry Colangelo who was part owner of the D’bags, I mean D’backs at the time despised the Yanks so much he went out of his way to gift Schilling to the Red Sox.
That being said, considering the way Toronto has “performed” against the Red Sox in the past, I would not be at all surprised to see Halladay be a Red Sox for a package consisting of Bowden, Lars Anderson, Anthony Rizzo and Tim Federowicz.
Global
The Red Sox already have the inside track to acquiring Pujols with their oustanding offer of Josh Redick, Manny Delcarmen and Junichi Tazawa.
Mike Scioscia is saying BOLDLY in, http://www.ocregister.com
that the Angels will beat the Yankees next year.
Excellent, and to think, they don’t even have to give up future first-ballot HOF closer Bard to get Pujols!! They’ll be stacked.
“As we’ve seen, the Yankees don’t need Halladay to win the World Series…”
In fact, no team with Roy Halladay on its roster has EVER won a World Series or even a single playoff game.
I’ll be surprised if he’s employed a year from now.
IMO, Granderson makes sense if he is replacing Gardner in CF and Melky replaces Damon in LF. I’m not a big Melky fan, but he could conceivably bat in the #2 spot as he hits LHP/RHP pretty much equally and doesn’t really SO much.The question is can he improve his overall game and make Yankee fans not miss Damon’s skillset too much? In this scenario, Granderson gets to gain his sea legs at the bottom of the order where his poor lhp splits won’t hurt the Yankees and hopefully gain some confidence or ability against LHP.
I always sort of believed that if your team wins a championship, the players deserve a chance to come back and defend it.
I would bring back Damon and Matsui since they are productive players who Girardi knows how to spell when they need a breather.
I don’t believe in this theory that Jorge, Arod and Jeter should start sharing the DH duties. You lose major positional advantages by removing them from their respective positions and replacing them with backups.
Your lineup is much better served by having an offensive powerhouse who can DH.
That said, Damon should only be brought back for 2 years. If that’s a dealbreaker, at least the Yankees tried to keep continuity. I don’t know what team though will sign Damon to a 3 year deal. I don’t see it at all.
Matsui should be given a 1 year offer with an option and a buyout on the 2nd year option. If he has a monster season you pick up the option. If not, you give him a nice going away parting gift.
Otherwise, we are seriously in the market for at least 1 OF and a mostly full time DH.
For DH I would also consider Vlad since I think he’d be a good one, but I think that it’ll take less money and years to secure Matsui than it will to secure Vlad.
If Damon is out of the picture, I definitely find out what it’s going to take to get Granderson who I think would thrive in NY.
If the cost is too prohibitive, I would actually try to sign Figgins for Damon’s spot provided we have a big bopper (Matsui or Vlad) at DH.
I would steer clear of Holliday and Bay unless their prices really start to fall and you can get them in a 4 year deal scenario.
As for the rotation, if Andy comes back I’m not as adverse going into next season with Hughes, Joba, Aceves, Gaudin, Kennedy, Mitre battling it out for the last 2 spots.
Lackey’s injury history scares me and giving him big dollars and years doesn’t sit well with me.
Trading for Hallyday will cost the farm. I’m not against it but I’d have to see what the proposal would be to land him. I don’t love the idea of trading everyone for 1 year of Hallyday not to mention the extension he’s going to warrant is going to be huge. He would have to make more than AJ and somewhere close to CC in an extension. That’d be somewhere around 60 million for 3 starting pitchers.
Still, whoever said the length that CC and Hallyday would give you would save the pen was right. On 2 of 5 days the pen would be well rested and would be sharper for the 3-5 starters.
A rotation with CC, Doc, AJ and Andy probably wins 110 games next season.
The Diamondbacks wanted Johnson and Soriano……because Colangelo hated George. He accepted a garbage package from the Sox….Eventually, Colangelo got fired (as he should have) for putting personal vendettas ahead of the best interests of the team.
If I’m Toronto, no way do I accept that package from Boston for Halladay. I insist on either Bucholz or Lester in the deal. Bowden is at best a #3 starter, Lars Anderson struggled this year at Double A. I’m sure they can get just as good a package outside the division for Halladay as that one.
Does anyone else think Matt Holliday would be a nice choice for the Mets???
(Hi everyone
)
-The Cardinals WHOLE team is built around Pujols,no way Cardinals let him go.If so say goodbye to their division iron hold.
-Damonenjoy27…think28
Who knew Mike Scioscia suffers from the Jimmy Rollins syndrome….predicting he’ll beat the Yankees too!
Is that Pujols report from Peter Gammons, Ken Rosenthal, or Buster Olney?
GLove, I’m not sure Vlad can hold up anymore – if he could, why wouldn’t the Angels re-sign him? I wouldn’t give him a multi-year deal. If at all possible, I would give Matsui 1 year and a team option for a 2nd. I’ve no idea, however, if he would accept this. If not, sayonara. Damon? AT most I would also do 1 and a team option. At some point, we need to get younger (and I don’t mean younger and worse – the two aren’t incompatible). I’m in agreement about the pitching……
Damon
loved the answer Scioscia gave when asked if he thought the Yankees would buy another championship?
Bowden is at best a mopup reliever, but somehow, I can see the Blue Jays accepting that deal.
Buchholz should not be enough to get Roy either. Buchholz is at best a 2 or 3 starter, most likely a 3.
Lester should be demanded by the Blue Jays, and then negotiations should come to a stop, as the Red Sox would never do that deal.
Good point about the pitching……CC will be a stud, again. I’m fine with AJ….I thought he was the key last year,
Betsy ——————————————————–
How was he the key?
Your overrated view of AJ borders on ridiculous.
He was inconsistent.
His great WS game 2 and poor game 5 illustrates his season.
I thank Matt Holliday makes sense for the SF Giants, but I doubt they’ll pay the freight.
Erica -
I actually don’t think Holliday would be a good fit for the Mets. That park isn’t built for power hitters. They need guys who are going to hit, run, and play some serious defense.
I think they would be smarter to spend whatever money they have on upgrading the rotation (Lackey & Garland) and deal Luis Castillo to the Dodgers for Juan Pierre to play LF and then ink Orlando Hudson to play 2b.
“The Angels and Tigers have discussed a trade for center fielder Curtis Granderson, according to Ken Davidoff of Newsday. Davidoff says the Halos would use Granderson in left field and either shift Juan Rivera to DH or trade him. In my opinion, the Angels could fill several needs cheaply for the Tigers with players such as Mike Napoli and Brandon Wood. Davidoff adds that the Yankees “think very highly” of Granderson and the Cubs are “expected to inquire.”
MLBTR
Nick in SF
November 13th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
I thank Matt Holliday makes sense for the SF Giants, but I doubt they’ll pay the freight.
*****************
SF can have Holliday if they really, really want. But they better leave MPB alone
I would put Montero at DH and give Austin Jackson the keys to CF.
Mick, I would be inclined to explain what I meant if you weren’t so rude. Now, I’m not so much. Go try and figure it out instead of insulting me.
If we were to land Lackey or Halliday, AJ would be at best your 3rd starter more likely your 4th with CC-1, Halliday/Lackey-2, Andy-3, Burnett-4 and Hughes/Joba-5 using the lefty-righty theory.
I think Damon winds up with the Giants.
They have a habit of overpaying (see Aaron Rowand) have an absolute need on offense and with their pitching Damon can convince himself that he’s going to a team with a legit shot to win the division.
And one more thing, if you think AJ was crap last year, then you are as biased as you think I am.
Did everyone realize that the Angels players play for free! I am shocked I thought Torri signed a big money deal to go to the Angels. I guess I was wrong.
Jacob Ruppert
Where did you get info on Pujols trade?
betsy November 13th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Mick, I would be inclined to explain what I meant if you weren’t so rude. Now, I’m not so much. Go try and figure it out instead of insulting me.
———————————————————–
Please. You are always gushing about Burnett. How was I rude, don’t be so sensitive.
He wasn’t inconsistent? I really don’t think you can explain your fascination with him anyway.
And btw I have come to your aid many times in here when you were being attacked for some of your opinions.
Pujols to the Sox when Pigs Fly!
Chip
read post 10:53 am and click link Giants don’t want Damon it’s a Boras lie!!
betsy November 13th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
And one more thing, if you think AJ was crap last year, then you are as biased as you think I am.
—————————————————–
No need to be defensive.
I never used the word “crap.” Inconsistent is not crap.
Betsy -
That trade would make a ton of sense for both teams. I would actually go another step if I were the Angels and make a second move sending Gary Matthews to Chicago for Milton Bradley.
It’s a headache for a headache deal and both guys have about the same money left on their contract. The Cubs get a switch hitter that can play CF (so they can move Fukudome back to RF) and the Angels get a bat at DH to replace Vlad.
and then move Rivera to Boston for Mike Lowell and a pitching prospect.
Angels would have a lineup of:
Granderson – LF
Abreu – RF
Hunter – CF
Morales – 1b
Bradley – DH
Lowell – 3b
Kendrick – 2b
Mathis – C
Aybar – SS
iiicollies
I hope you aren’t being serious. That trade proposal was just part of my resume and interview in order to get a job at ESPN. I think it went very well, although the brass at ESPN seem to think the Red Sox were getting the short end of the stick having to give up future HOF’er Tazawa.
Johnny Damon should lower his price tag and take the year(s) the Yanks want to give him. He was paid to be a centerfielder and couldn’t even do that through the duration of his contract.
In baseball lore, what is more notable: helping the Redsocks end a legendary World Series drought or helping the Yankees win their 27th title? Sadly, it’s not all that close.
If Johnny Damon wants his baseball legacy to wear pinstripes, he needs more Yankee rings. Do it for the history books, Johnny.
First of all, Mick, I said at the beginning of the season that I thought AJ was the key…..when I said that now, that is what I meant. I said, I thought AJ was the key last year – meaning, before the season, I thought he was the key to the staff. In much the same way, I think Joba is.
I don’t need to explain why AJ is one of my favorite players…and frankly, we have debated this guy ad nauseum.
This trade stuff is almost as funny as that David DeJesus crap was yesterday.
Here’s a trade outta left field (centerfield actually)…
A.J. Burnett for Carlos Beltran straight up (give them Garnder if they want something to run around like crazy in that huge outfield).
It’s amazing how we talk about Granderson like the Yankees are the only team involved…..He could easily be an Angel before the Yankees even hold their meetings.
The Angels are in on Granderson? Great. Just great.
Haiku –
Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. This time last year Cashman said there was no way the Yankees could afford to add CC and Tex.
everyone keep saying Halladay but i just don’t see us getting him. I say we get someone decent through trade, just not Halladay. Wait until next year when he’s a FA
Dee, Doc is not going to be a FA – he will sign an extension this year with whomever trades for him. If he doesn’t, I don’t see why any team would give up anything for him.
Chip
Although Juan Rivera is a fat loafing lump of feces, excuse my french, there is no way I would unload him and his reasonable contract for the 90 year old Lowell and his contract who only rejuvenated his career with the Monster and the Monstrous Injections.
“Your lineup is much better served by having an offensive powerhouse who can DH.
That said, Damon should only be brought back for 2 years. If that’s a dealbreaker, at least the Yankees tried to keep continuity. I don’t know what team though will sign Damon to a 3 year deal. I don’t see it at all.
”
STOP MAKING SO MUCH SENSE!
The rotating DH idea is awful… fortunately, Cashman would never go that way.
The only way Damon doesn’t return is if he gets a 3+ year deal from some other team. That team WILL NOT be an NL team. There are no good fits for him on any other AL club. He will return. Boras and Cashman are just posturing.
Lots of Yankees World Series Champions merchandise at Sports authority and NY Yankees World Series Champions magazines at Borders or Barnes & Noble. OHHH it will be fun Christmas shopping this year !
It’s amazing how we talk about Granderson like the Yankees are the only team involved…..He could easily be an Angel before the Yankees even hold their meetings.
Hang in there Betsy. I’m sure Cashman is involved.
Nick in SF
November 13th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Johnny Damon should lower his price tag and take the year(s) the Yanks want to give him. He was paid to be a centerfielder and couldn’t even do that through the duration of his contract.
In baseball lore, what is more notable: helping the Redsocks end a legendary World Series drought or helping the Yankees win their 27th title? Sadly, it’s not all that close.
If Johnny Damon wants his baseball legacy to wear pinstripes, he needs more Yankee rings. Do it for the history books, Johnny.
*************
I guess “Do it for Erica” wasn’t doing the trick
Hey all,
DId anyone read the rest of that Mike Silva Baseball Digest link? John Wetteland was hospitalized foe what they are calling “mental health” issues. He may have been suicidal that post suggests. WOW! I saw JW a few times this yr when he came to oakland with Seattle, i sit right in front of the visiting bullpen, so i saw him interact with his pitchers and he seemed pretty normal to me. If he is suicidal i hope he gets some help.
2) I cannot see cash trading cano, unless we got a boat load in return. Besides, why are we giving up on a .320 hitter, who can play the field like no other and thats when he’s being lazy.
3) I’m kinda interested in seeing what you guys think of the Yankees re-signing Xavier Nady. He can play left and right field, he hits better than what we have out there now with occasional power and he has some speed.
jennifer
November 13th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Did everyone realize that the Angels players play for free! I am shocked I thought Torri signed a big money deal to go to the Angels. I guess I was wrong
————————————————————
teams are mad because we can outspend them
how about telling owners to give all their money to poor people & live in a simple house so the whole world can be even
how would they like the goverment taking money from them & distributing to the poor?
AJ is not the key. CC is.
But I’m sure you have a different definition of what the word “key” means.
And how was Joba the key if AJ was, Betsy?
I just don’t understand your fascination with Burnett and as you have never explained it, how is one to know?
I’m sure you know by now, someone as opinionated as yourself, should not be so sensitive to followups to your statements.
Mike, I’m not upset or frustrated, but the way we’ve been talking, it almost sounds like Granderson is a done deal. We have to remember other teams are involved. The Yankees finished their season later than all but the Phillies, so of course they haven’t had their meetings yet…. That said, I’m sure the Tigers (if they really intend to trade CG) aren’t necessarily in a rush to do something right now. There’s no reason they shouldn’t wait it out a bit and see what the Yankees have to offer.
betsy,
Talking about Granderson is an easy topic because it’s been made public that he’s available, that the Yanks are looking into it and obviously NY needs more outfielders.
It is very very likely that Granderson never wears a Yankee uniform but at this point in the offseason it’s easy to speculate about him.
Would you rather I bring up Milton Bradley again? (I still think he’d be good on the Yanks)
Sometimes we have to leave pretend behind.
shouldn’t we ask ourselves this question:
We won the world series with this team.So why should the yankees make a big trade and give up top prospects like a-jax,kennedy..?
Betsy
But aren’t teams lining up to give their players to the Yankees?
As I said – this is why the idea of getting Granderson on the cheap is so silly. If that report is true, the Angels would be giving up a young, major league proven, slugging catcher to get Granderson – but yea, the Yankees can get him for a couple of 2nd or 3rd level prospects
“The Angels are in on Granderson? Great. Just great.”
Just what they need another hitter who struggles against LHP.
The Yankees lefties completely neutralized the three most important bats in their lineup in the ALCS – Figgins, Abreu, and Morales. That’s why their offense never seemed to get going. Those 3 guys were critical to their success all year, and they all slumped against CC, Andy, Marte, and Mo.
If the Mariners offer Matsui 3-4 years and he takes it, I’m all for signing Xavier Nady to be the DH. He can still hit and he’ll make such a reduced salary (especially compared to Matsui’s) it will help lower payroll enough for the Yankees to either sign a big name pitcher like Lackey in addition to Pettitte or add a bullpen arm like Rafael Soriano.
Mick, you aren’t understanding my point at all……I will explain that, but as to why AJ is one of my favorite players, I don’t owe anyone an explanation. I don’t ask for your reasoning behind who your favorite player is.
Last year, after AJ signed, I thought he was the key to the rotation. I figured if he was good, then the Yankees would be good. If he was excellent/great/whatever, then the Yankees would be extremely good.
As to Joba, IMO yes- he is a key this year because if he sucks, then he’ll have to go to AAA and the Yankees will need another pitcher. If he’s good, then we have CC, AJ,Joba, Andy ….and we could more easily live with Phil’s growing pains.
I still believe that more likely (and more logical) fits for the Yankees if Damon and Matsui left would be David DeJesus and Brad Hawpe.
They would be easier to obtain and, while they are NOT Curtis Granderson, they would both be very good fits in the lineup and augmenting a team that doesn’t need more stars.
roger
Because a team cannot and does not rest on its laurels because it won the World Series. They try to make their team better any way they can. If you have to give up something to get something, then so be it.
The best example I can use, the Yankees traded away David Wells prior to 1999 after winning in 1998. Why? They got one of the greatest pitchers in the history of baseball, and nearly won 3 more WS in a row.
Patric, I’m enjoying the CG talk, lol…….but that blurb from MLB is a reminder to me that he could easily go in a deal before the Yankees get a shot…..that’s all.
In fact, if Damon and Matsui leave for long term contracts, I think replacing them with Granderson and Nady is a decent switcheroo.
Chip, I never said the Yankees would get Granderson for peanuts.
vin
“The Angels are in on Granderson? Great. Just great.”
Just what they need another hitter who struggles against LHP.
The Yankees lefties completely neutralized the three most important bats in their lineup in the ALCS – Figgins, Abreu, and Morales. That’s why their offense never seemed to get going. Those 3 guys were critical to their success all year, and they all slumped against CC, Andy, Marte, and Mo.
- Great Point !.
DeJesus and Hawpe are acceptable replacements.
chip
the GM for rhe Giants would have to be a fool to give a 36 yr old outfielder with an average arm,and bad legs 4 yrs,CRAZY!
Bret-
i tend to agree with you, but i am not sold on granderson. I like his speed and i like his glove, but his bat needs works. A lot!
Damon is not a west coast guy and has played his entire career in the AL. Any thoughts with the SF Giants are out of the question.
Scott Boras can make a case to very few teams for the services of Damon
Betsy -
I was mocking the people who do – not you
Cardinals want Nady as a back up plan for losing Holliday.
roger(live from Amsterdam)
November 13th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
shouldn’t we ask ourselves this question:
We won the world series with this team.So why should the yankees make a big trade and give up top prospects like a-jax,kennedy..?
————————————————————
not true
pettitte,damon,matsui are no loner our property
about 55 hr & 185 rbi just left
Betsy
You are always getting into arguments in here. More than anyone else, if it were polled. There is no need to take retorts as personal, “insulting,”as you like to say.
betsy November 13th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Mick, you aren’t understanding my point at all……I will explain that, but as to why AJ is one of my favorite players, I don’t owe anyone an explanation. I don’t ask for your reasoning behind who your favorite player is.
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No one in here espouses their “favorite” player as much as you do. In that sense, maybe you do need to explain your fascination with him.
Oh jeez not Brad Hawpe again. His platoon splits are just as bad as Granderson’s and he’s the worst defender in either league. At least Granderson is a plus CF
I’ll take Granderson over Hawpe any day of the week
Bru
I’m not talking about losing matsui,damon en pettite and not getting someone back.I’m just saying that I don’t think the yankees should give up top prospects for big trades because they already are world champions with this team.
I would always try to keep a championship team together
Granderson fits the profile that Cashman is looking for, he’s youger, athelete, he’s cost controled and oh by the way he’s an All-Star CF….Basically you’re trading Damon for him……They Yanks outfield needs help guys, it’s below average…..Re-sign Matsui to DH until Montero is resdy for that position……Find another starter….
Pat M. lets see if we can resign Damon first. if that falls threw. Then we can look at Granderson.
Nick in SF
November 13th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Sometimes we have to leave pretend behind.
******
Thats very deep Nick. Very deep
Our internet Gestapo just arrived. I told him to please visit me when he had a chance so we could figure out a bribery plan so I can resume my posting activities…..
Jeter SS
Damon LF
Granderson CF
Rodriguez 3B
Teixeira 1B
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swisher DH
Cabrera RF
That lineup would be wonderful.
I still like the idea of trading for both Brad Hawpe and Conor Jackson. I would resign Pettitte and Hairston. I would sign free agents JJ Putz and Erik Bedard. I would trade Melky.
This would give give me one or two position player roster spots and one bullpen spot to play around with.
The three corner outfielders would be Hawpe, C Jackson and Swisher.
CF would be Gardner backed up by Hairston for the first couple of months while A Jackson is in AAA playing LF. Ramiro Pena would also be in AAA playing CF so he can back up there if needed. Hairston would backup every position player spot but first base.
DH would mostly be Miranda against right handed pitching and almost anyone else against left handed pitching until Montero makes his appearance mid year.
Rotation would be CC, AJ, Andy, Joba, and Phil. Bedard would be my backup guy as he won’t be ready to start the season. In case of injury or implosion Bedard would be available. Bedard would have to sign some kind of incentive deal to make it work though.
Putz is better then Bruney when healthy and shouldn’t cost all that much more. If Putz regains his control he’ll me a nice setup guy while he regains his value on a one year deal.
I have 23 players to start and a lot of flexibility with Miranda having another option.
CC
AJ
Andy
Joba
Phil
Mo
Marte
Coke
Putz
Robertson
Aceves
Posada
Cervelli
Teixeira
Cano
Jeter
Arod
C Jackson
Hawpe
Swisher
Gardner
Miranda
Hairston
I’ve seen a bunch of folks that are rather down on Gardner. For the love of Bobby Murcer, he’s a ROOKIE. All right, Rickey Henderson he ain’t. But IMO he just needs time to get used to the big time. That’s not true of everyone but it is of a lot of people, including outfielders — former James P. Dawson Award winner and eventual NL batting champ Bill Robinson being perhaps an extreme example.
cashman will look over everything & make decisions
he will talk to his managers & scouts & go from there
i see a few trades coming or us signing bay or holliday if damon does not come back
damon at 10-13 million a year or bay/holliday 14-16 million with a better defense & younger while trading no prospects
cash will have to decide if he wants to just spend or trade for a player or players
he also has to decide if he wants to stick with joba,hughes,kennedy,gaudin,mitre
that is a lot of pitchers
we can sign bay/holliday,pettitte,matsui & lower payroll slightly
then trade for a pitcher
i think we trade joba/hughes only if the right younger player comes to ny
i can see some of the lesser prospects being traded for our needs also
i just cant see trading any top prospects unless it is for king felix or kemp type player
it is so much easier to just sign bay,matsui & pettitte & call it a winter
i would however trade joba,cano,ajax for king felix,sign bay,matsui & pettite
payroll is lower,we fix the o.f. & dh spots & get an ace
the only problem would be 2nd base
with bay,matsui plus arods increased production our rbi increase from damon & matsui & can almost cover the loss of cano
bay,matsui,arod,pena could have 400 rbi easily
damon,matsui,arod & cano had about 370 rbi
so our rbi will be at the minimum the same but almost guarnteed higher even with pena at 2nd base
Good job staltus.Baseball is in dutch ‘honkbal’
Swish is not a number 2 and neither is Robbie really. You’re going to see Damon in pinstripes next year. Maybe not if he didn’t hit 24 HR and hit very well in the postseason, but he did, and he will be a Yankee next year.
Problem is he’ll need some DH time, as will Posada, so there really is no room for Hideki Matsui.
But if they keep Damon, and Swish and Nady, there will be no room for Austin Jackson, so someone is going to be traded, and it will either be Gardner, Swisher, or even Melky.
Hate to break it to yall, but Nick Swisher sucks. Sure, he can get on base, but in the end, you need someone who can hit. Swisher can’t hit.
The Yankees will look to cut payroll by at least $30 mil. this off-season. Between the luxury tax and the nut for the Stadium they probably owe $100 mil.
Hal S., unlike his father, is a business man. His ego is in finance not baseball. No executive in baseball wants to be told he bought a title. This free-agent spending is a one-time thing. Check all the in and out of town columns during the playoffs. None failed to mention money. They have to go to meetings with these people and field calls from Selig. The next few years will be about the system, not buying players.
That said:
Jeter,Cano,Tex,ARod,Matsui,Posada,Swicher,Melky,Jackson.
Matsui will come back cheaply. They will make Montero a left fielder this spring. If Elston Howard and Yogi could play the outfield he can.
that lineup is still better than most al lineups.
I love the Yankees, but they need to get a bit younger this off season. Obviously, you’re still going to keep some of the key older guys, but I also think you need to bring up a few of New York’s prospects (even if they’re young and even if they might struggle a bit). It’s also time to shed a bit of dead weight (Melky Cabrera, Brian Bruney, Chin Ming Wang, Sergio Mitre, Jose Molina, and either Damon or Matsui). The Yankees just won the World Series, but other than Swisher (who did little in the WS), their outfield was the pits this year!
Their priorities this off season, should be to sign Aroldis Chapman and Matt Holliday, to resign Andy Pettitte and maybe either Damon or Matsui (for the bench), and to bring up Austin Jackson to play centerfield and Jesus Montero to play DH and catcher (so that Posada and Girardi can work with him). Playing centerfield for the New York Yankees is like playing quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys – there’s tradition there. I can’t stomach Melky and Gardner where DiMaggio, Mantle and Bernie Williams once roamed. It’s time to give Ajax a shot – he can’t be worse than the two clowns the Yanks had there last year, and he’s got tremendous upside potential.
I also definitely wouldn’t trade Ajax, Jesus Montero, Phil Hughes and/or Joba Chamerlain for anything – they’re the future of the franchise. You don’t need to trade for Doc Halladay this year. He’s a free agent after next year – same goes for Cliff Lee. Mind you, I wouldn’t refuse to take Halladay if the Jays didn’t ask for any of the aforementioned 4 players, but Halladay really isn’t a must.
It would also be nice to pick up a player like Carlos Beltran or Curtis Granderson to play some outfield and to DH a bit. This would allow you to let Damon (dead arm) and Matsui (dead legs) go, or have one of them come off the bench. I would be nice to have a strong bench again like the Yanks did in ’98. Again, I wouldn’t give up any one of the 4 players I mentioned concerning Halladay.
Here’s how I would love to see the Yankees in 2010
SS Derek Jeter
RF Nick Swisher
1B Mark Texiera
3B Alex Rodriguez
LF Matt Holliday
C/DH Jesus Montero
2B Robinson Cano
C/DH Jorge Posada
CF Austin Jackson
On the bench:
DH/PH/OF Matsui or Damon (maybe)
OF Gardner (for speed) or Eric Hinske (for power)
OF Granderson or Beltran
IF Ramiro Pena or Hairston Jr.
C Francisco Cerevelli
Pitchers
CC Sabathia
AJ Burnett
Andy Pettite
Phil Hughes
Aroldis Chapman
Mariano Rivera
Joba Chamberlain
David Robertson
Damaso Marte
Phil Coke
Alfredo Aceves
Chad Gaudin
Mark Melancon
Note: If you get another starter, Hughes could stay in a very dominant bullpen.
1. Derek Jeter, SS
2. Nick Swisher, LF
3. Mark Teixeira, 1B
4. Alex Rodriguez, 3B
5. Jorge Posada, C
6. Robinson Cano, 2B
7. Melky Cabrera, RF
8. CC Sabathia, DH
9. Brett Gardner, CF
Jeter SS
Trade for Granderson OR Sign Cameron (1 yr) CF
Teixeira 1B
Arod 3B
Matsui (2yr) DH
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Cabrera CF
CC
Trade for Halladay (Pena, Hughes + 2 prospects)
Burnett
Pettite (if he does not retire) OR Sign Rich Harden (1 yr + club option)
Joba
*IF WE DO NOT TRADE FOR HALLADAY:
CC
Burnett
Pettite (if he does not retire) OR Sign Rich Harden (1 yr + club option)
Jon Garland (1 yr)
Joba AND Hughes (have them alternate starts)
Cervelli C
HInske IN/OF (1yr)
Hairston IN/OF (1yr)
Gardner CF
Bruney/Rafael Soriano
Coke
Aceves
Robertson
Marte
Gaudin
Melancon
RIvera
If Brett Garbage is the starting center fielder come April 2010, I will plotz.
Even with the short porch in right, the man does not have warning-track power (see http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/indiv.....tatType=1).
He is at best a two-tool player, the two tools being fielding and speed (though his performance in the playoffs makes one wonder how long the latter’s gonna last). (His average is an illusion, considering that he never managed to hit .300 in the minors even. And while a .345 OBP might be acceptable in someone with a .450 or better slugging percentage, Gardner’s SLG is only a few points higher than his on-base.) The upshot being that he should be at most a late-inning defensive substitution/pinch runner (i.e., a pine rider).
Please note that I’m not saying Melky Cabrera is great shakes. But without question his starting over Gardner is better for my cardiovascular health.
They have to give Brett Gardner a chance. His postseason performance was hurt by the fact that he was sitting for most of it and during September.
We’ve seen flashes of Gardner during regular season that was very good and I think he will be even better than that as he gets more play time and experience.
Don’t give up on him. There is a huge upside.
Let Damon go, he’s a little league outfielder. I see Jason Bey in left, then you can rest Alex, Jorge & Jeter at DH.