Bailey, Coghlan win Rookies of the Year
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A’s pitcher Andrew Bailey and Marlins outfielder Chris Coghlan are the AL and NL Rookies of the Year.
UPDATE, 2:03 p.m.: Here’s the breakdown of the AL balloting (1st-2nd-3rd place votes – total points):
Andrew Bailey, Oakland Athletics (13-6-5 — 88 points)
Elvis Andrus, Texas Rangers (8-6-7 — 65 points)
Rick Porcello, Detroit Tigers (7-8-5 — 64 points)
Jeff Niemann, Tampa Bay Rays (0-5-6 — 21 points)
Gordon Beckham, Chicago White Sox (0-2-4 — 10 points)
Brett Anderson, Oakland Athletics (0-1-1 — 4 points)
And here’s the breakdown of the NL ballotting:
Chris Coghlan, Florida Marlins (17-6-2 — 105 points)
J.A. Happ, Philadelphia Phillies (10-11-11 — 94 points)
Tommy Hanson, Atlanta Braves (2-6-9 — 37 points)
Andrew McCutchen, Pittsburgh Pirates (2-5-0 — 25 points)
Casey McGehee, Milwaukee Brewers (1-3-4 – 18 points)
Randy Wells, Chicago Cubs (0-1-0 — 3 points)
Garret Jones, Pittsburgh Pirates (0-0-2 — 2 points)
Everth Cabrera, San Diego Padres (0-0-1 — 1 point)
Dexter Fowler, Colorado Rockies (0-0-1 — 1 point)
Gerardo Parra, Arizona Diamondbacks (0-0-1 — 1 point)
Colby Rasmus, St. Louis Cardinals (0-0-1 — 1 point)
UPDATE, 2:12 p.m.: Well, 1-for-2 for me in predictions so far. I’m not surprised by Bailey’s win since he did have a great season, but if it was going to go to a pitcher, I think what Porcello did as a starter was more impressive. Still, you can’t knock 26 saves and a 1.89 ERA — Bailey had a great year.
As for the NL, it was interesting to see such a large gap from the top two (Coghlan and Happ) to the third-place finisher, as well as the sheer number of players who got votes. I thought Hanson deserved more votes, but that’s me. Coghlan certainly looks like a stud.
As a reminder, these awards are voted on by members of the BBWAA, with two writers from each city being assigned to each award. I did not vote this year; Pete voted for, I believe, the AL MVP, and he kept his vote since he left so close to the end of the season. Check back in a little while for anything interesting out of the conference calls with the winners.
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Chad Jennings
darn, i thought gardner had it in the bag.
Not a very exciting group this year. I think Andrew McCutchen, Tommy Hanson, and Rick Porcello all have better futures. I don’t see Bailey repeating as a lights out closer. Coghlan may have a few more good years but I don’t see a brilliant career for him either. I like the award to go to the guys with the brightest futures. Otherwise, we end up handing the award over to guys like Eric Hinske, Angel Berroa, and Bobby Crosby.
Bump Bailey?
Sign the petition for the MLB network to air Dock Ellis’s no-hitter (apparently while he was on LSD)…
http://tinyurl.com/dockellisnohitter
Sign the petition!
I really thought the NL was going to Happ and that the AL would go to either Porcello or Beckham.
repost:
“His reaction to vernon wells in 2006. As usual, he is totally off…”
It’s hard to criticize anyone Re: Wells’ contract at the time. He was coming off a great year, both at the plate and in the field. He is a big presence in that clubhouse and in their community (from what I’ve heard/read).
At that time, he clearly should have signed for more than Ichiro, Jones and Hunter. A durable 27 year old, coming off a very good year, who was a force in CF, and the face of the franchise.
Of course the reasonability behind the way the contract was structured is a different issue altogether.
was expecting Porcello as well
Davis –
That’s not what the award’s there for – it’s there for the rookie who had the best season in the estimation of the BBWAA.
and you left out Ben Grieve.
Well I was 1/2, Coghlan is a fine choice, I think Tommy Hanson being a starter and not being in the majors all year probably hurt his chances. Congrats to local product Andrew Bailey on the hardware.
As to the Vernon Wells issue, signing him long-term after 2006 is not the real issue of critique. It’s the fact that Ricciardi got cute and backloaded the deal so excessively that he literally took a hatchet to the Jays’ payroll flexibility starting in 2010 and lasting until 2014 or whenever it expires. And also, Wells’ salary in those years is totally out of whack with his actual performance that it becomes almost laughable.
They are paying over 20 million a year for a decent CFer who gets hurt a lot. Soriano and Zito are up there but Vernon is the MVP of terrible contracts.
“It’s hard to criticize anyone Re: Wells’ contract at the time. He was coming off a great year, both at the plate and in the field. He is a big presence in that clubhouse and in their community (from what I’ve heard/read).
At that time, he clearly should have signed for more than Ichiro, Jones and Hunter. A durable 27 year old, coming off a very good year, who was a force in CF, and the face of the franchise.
Of course the reasonability behind the way the contract was structured is a different issue altogether”
——————————————-
in fairness, am not able to criticize Gammons for that one either.
Vernon Wells looked like the perennial all-star CF. Did not expect him to drop like a rock
Vin,
Not really that hard to be critical of it. Toronto wasn’t a big budget team back then and they sank a small fortune into a player who had a bad history of being “the man.”
JP made the deal because he was terrified of losing Wells to either the Yankees or Rangers despite having a wealth of young outfielders coming up behind him headed by Alex Rios (who he also signed to a disasterous contract)
Hanson should have won hands down. That is just stupid.
The AL should have been Porcello.
Do they just disregard the value that a SP has for a team?
This is just kind of sad..
and the great marty cordova
Hey, I would have been thrilled with the Yankees getting Vernon Wells but mostly that was because I figured he, like Bernie Williams, would be a great complimentary player to a team loaded with other guys who could take the mantle of “the man”. I just think Wells wilted under that pressure in Toronto.
I still think if you get him on a team where he can just play and not worry about being a leader or living up to the contract that he can return to his form.
Chip –
I understand that. All the same, if I were a voter, I would strongly consider the player’s future career when I filled in my ballot. Naturally, you don’t give it to Stephen Strasburg, despite him potentially having a good future career ahead of him, or just vote based off of prospect guides. A nice blend of current major league statistical evidence and future projections, coupled with their impact this season – all should contribute. For me, it’s more fun to look back on the great rookie of the year players, like our own Derek Jeter, or a Ryan Howard.
Elliot -
I like looking back and seeing some of the “immortals” and laughing at the fact that they got any awards in their career at all.
Just FYI, I updated the post with full ballot totals if you are curious in how the voting went.
Hey, I would have been thrilled with the Yankees getting Vernon Wells but mostly that was because I figured he, like Bernie Williams, would be a great complimentary player to a team loaded with other guys who could take the mantle of “the man”. I just think Wells wilted under that pressure in Toronto.
I still think if you get him on a team where he can just play and not worry about being a leader or living up to the contract that he can return to his form.
____
I’m sure at some point cashman would go to the jays with an attempt to get halladay by taking wells’ contract on. Cash has made some great deals where the yankees benefit way more than the other team. Who knows… maybe he plays some mind control on the jays and we end up with halladay.
“He left in part because he didn’t get along with JP. Also because he wasn’t being considered one of the rising young studs along with guys like Dayton Moore, Logan White, et al…”
Eh, maybe. Still doesn’t impact his credibility, IMO.
“not necessarily. For all we know Toronto may have given him a choice of either resigning or being let go.”
Possibly… but we could play the speculation game all day long.
I’m not really defending him. I don’t care what anyone at ESPN has to say anymore. That network is dead to me, and has been for some time now.
I just don’t think he deserves so much venom for calling Colin Curtis a scrub. He’s a 24 year old former college player who struggled in his first taste of AAA. I’m sure guys like him are a dime a dozen.
From what I hear, Laird has a pretty good bat. I’m hardly an expert on the minor leaguers – there’s not enough hours in my day to follow them all.
Erica – always OPPC
November 16th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
I think Molina gained weight this year. I am not sure how much, but he definitely appeared bigger. I would think that would affect his playing skills adversely
****************
You’re right-it did seem like he had gained weight. I’m kind of curious to see where he’s going to end up next year.
The AL RoY rule seems to be:
When in doubt, vote for an Oakland player.
“I’m sure at some point cashman would go to the jays with an attempt to get halladay by taking wells’ contract on.”
Please, please no. Halladay is going to require a big contract himself. The Jays are also going to still require a bunch of talent unless the Yankees are just taking all of Wells’ remaining contract, which looks like:
10:$12.5M, 11:$23M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M
So you want to pencil Vernon Wells’ $21 million onto those upcoming payrolls along with Teixeira’s $22.5 and CC’s $23 million and A-Rod’s $28 million, who will also be well into their 30s at that point? Even if they take a portion of Wells’ deal, it is bad news for the Yankees who already have a bunch of money sewed up in the future.
And that’s not even taking into account signing someone like Halladay if he was traded to the Yankees, which they most likely would do, to a very large deal.
“I think Molina gained weight this year. I am not sure how much, but he definitely appeared bigger”
That’s just because he played mostly on the road, instead of in the slimming vertical pinstripes!
“When in doubt, vote for an Oakland player”
As in Jose Canseco, Mark McGwire, and Walt Weiss all winning it consecutively for the A’s. I had forgotten about that until I looked at the past winners earlier.
I’m sure at some point cashman would go to the jays with an attempt to get halladay by taking wells’ contract on.”
Please, please no. Halladay is going to require a big contract himself. The Jays are also going to still require a bunch of talent unless the Yankees are just taking all of Wells’ remaining contract, which looks like:
____
You are acting like it is your own money?
I never understand why yankees fans are so concerned with their payroll. If they can afford it, good.
Bailey – Wagner College Seahawks!
“Hey, I would have been thrilled with the Yankees getting Vernon Wells but mostly that was because I figured he, like Bernie Williams, would be a great complimentary player to a team loaded with other guys who could take the mantle of “the man”. I just think Wells wilted under that pressure in Toronto. ”
You might be right. However, at some point GMs need to gamble that the talented player can continue to perform at a high level even if they’re making big bucks. If Ricciardi let Wells walk then he would be eseentially giving up.
He had signed Halladay to an extension in March of ‘06. Signed Burnett in December of ‘05. Those moves make no sense if he’s not willing to retain (or trade) Wells.
At some point, the talented players need to perform up to their abilities. That’s not on the GM.
Not to mention that Wells has been bit by the injury bug the last few years:
07 – broken wrist, hurt shoulder
08 – injured groin
09 – injured left wrist
I never understand why yankees fans are so concerned with their payroll. If they can afford it, good.
____________________________
I’ve noticed that boston fans are obsessed about Yankees payroll too – seemingly worried that the Steinbrenners will run out of money – or wishing they did not put the money back into the Yankees team.
Good season by Bailey, but not ROY worthy. While his ERA was low, so was Joba’s when he came out of the pen his first year. Saves are a very misleading stat, and he did blow 4 saves in 30 opportunities as well.
Porcello pitched a tremendous amount of innings for the Tigers, and was basically the number two pitcher down the stretch on a team that missed the playoffs by one game. That’s huge.
“I never understand why yankees fans are so concerned with their payroll.”
Jason Giambi.
Those of us concerned about payroll do not want to see immovable contracts, especially for position players who will be on the field, keeping the team from going after players who could help. If Giambi had a reasonable contract, the Yankees could have moved him or ate part of his salary to do so. But, at 20+M, they were stuck throughout his deal.
As far as pitchers are concerned, they aren’t blocking anybody, so a bad deal for Pavano, Igawa, etc, isn’t keeping the team from getting another good pitcher. If the Yankees take the Wells contract off of Toronto’s hands, he will be in the NY outfield through the end of the deal, for better or for worse.
I’ve noticed that boston fans are obsessed about Yankees payroll too – seemingly worried that the Steinbrenners will run out of money – or wishing they did not put the money back into the Yankees team.
___
Sox fans are obsessed with everything new york. they feel inferior, and no matter how much they win, they still have a complex and a jealousy of our franchise.
i figured after 2004 they would just be happy, but i was way off on that.
“You are acting like it is your own money?
I never understand why yankees fans are so concerned with their payroll. If they can afford it, good.”
It’s about the fact that there are payroll limitations and that it is not a reality to expect the team’s payroll to be neverending. Continually lumping a bunch of huge long-term contracts onto one team’s payroll does not make for sustained success, so adding multiple guys with huge contracts who are past 30 years old is not a good idea when the Yankees already have a number of those guys already. It limits the ability of a team to fill holes that will certainly develop in the future, limits the amount of money they can invest other places (like internationally, the draft, and in the general free agent market, 3 places the Yankees have huge fiscal advantages) and just generally hamstrings the franchise from continuously improving, which I think most fans want.
But other than that, yeah, why not acquire Wells and Halladay and sign Halladay to an extension while trading away good prospects.
The Yanks won’t take back one of the sports most onerous contracts to get Halladay. They’ll only make a deal for him if it makes sense, and picking up Wells would not make sense.
“Porcello pitched a tremendous amount of innings for the Tigers, and was basically the number two pitcher down the stretch on a team that missed the playoffs by one game. That’s huge.”
Agreed.
Starting “life or death” games in September/October is far more difficult than retiring the bottom of Seattle’s lineup in a meaningless August game.
But other than that, yeah, why not acquire Wells and Halladay and sign Halladay to an extension while trading away good prospects.
___
no one said anything about trading prospects. they ‘hypothetical scenario’, was taking the contract to get halladay. in no scenario would we trade prospects AND take on a huge contract for halladay or anyone.
You are living in a dream world if you think the Yankees are going to inheritbad contracts again.
Why do you want them to go back in time after winning a WS?
If the Yankees wanted Vernon Wells, they could have had him in July.
They are not inheriting the worst contract in baseball to obtain a guy (Halladay) they can sign (if they choose to) after next season.
The days of inheriting bad contracts ended 4 years ago when Cashman took full control. They aren’t going back to a failed era just so some fans can have something to talk about in the off-season.
Halladay is considered one of the best pitchers in baseball.
I don’t see the Yankees or any other team getting him without giving up some prospects even if Well’s contract is taken over.
Toronto will want some young players to rebuild their team.
“they ‘hypothetical scenario’, was taking the contract to get halladay.”
It’s a hypothetical scenario in that it won’t happen. The Yankees will have to trade someone in order to get those 2 guys, regardless of how much of a salary dump the hypothetical would be and therefore not require trading the top top prospects, and then they would be committed to Wells’ awful deal and also obligated to sign Halladay to a long-term deal since they just went through trading for him (unless you think they will trade for him and then let him walk and sign with some other team). None of it makes sense.
you think if the yankees dont get halladay this year, that he will be available next year? i believe that halladay said he would only go to a team that offered an extension. so if he is traded, he is not going to be available next year.
man you people all take life WAY too seriously. How bout this then, Yankees just leave Halladay alone as they probably will, and continue doing what they are doing.
They are NOT trading good prospects to Toronto to get halladay so they arent getting him. the thought was only what they maybe COULD do to get him.
so relax…
As a fan, opportunity cost is my issue, not whether the Yankees overspent on a particular player by a few million. I define “opportunity cost” as the player(s) they could not sign/acquire because they took on a guy like Wells with that big ugly contract.
So, remember: it’s not the dollars, it’s the opportunity cost.
At the same time, IMO, CC and Teix were worth every dollar they paid for them. AJ? Given his inconsistencies, I’d say he was worth every other dollar they paid for him.
tex’s friend
November 16th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
you think if the yankees dont get halladay this year, that he will be available next year? i believe that halladay said he would only go to a team that offered an extension. so if he is traded, he is not going to be available next year.
******************
I thought I saw something (granted-it was this past summer when all of the trade rumors about him were swirling) that he did want to test free agency. But maybe something changed since then.
Does anyone know if you can find out which writer voted for which player?
I’d be interested to find out whom our dearly departed friend voted for in the MVP race. Hey lets play GWPAVFITMVPB game
(Guess Who PA Voted For In The MVP Balloting)
My Guesses:
1) Kevin Youkilis
2) Jason Bay
3) Declined to vote for #3 as no other Redsox deserved it
Write in: Peter Gammons
I for one could care less how high the Yankee payroll climbs. Between YES, the stadium, the concession deal that they struck, and ticket prices the Yankees gross more than some Central American countries – I would much rather that they throw that money back onto the field rather than into private jets and Christmas parties for executives.
As for those who complain about the Yankee payroll I would argue that the three worst contracts in baseball are not on the Yankees. Anyone can spend money, but spending it well is another matter entirely. What the Yankee money allows is for them to bury a mistake like Igawa in Scranton rather than play him to justify his contract.
I don’t understand Buster’s comments. If corner OF isn’t a priority for the Yankees, just what IS their priority? It sounds like they are banking on Damon to return, which is dumb.
“Not a very exciting group this year. I think Andrew McCutchen, Tommy Hanson, and Rick Porcello all have better futures. I don’t see Bailey repeating as a lights out closer. Coghlan may have a few more good years but I don’t see a brilliant career for him either. I like the award to go to the guys with the brightest futures. Otherwise, we end up handing the award over to guys like Eric Hinske, Angel Berroa, and Bobby Crosby.”
The award is for “Rookie of the YEAR” not “the player who will have the best major league career.”
When a player like Halladay, who is close to testing free agency for the first time in his career, is this close to it, he doesn’t sign an extension.
He is going to test free agency.
Toronto won’t get anything of value for him this off-season. They should have traded him in July.
JP’s mishandling of that cost him his job and put the franchise in a horrible position.
Johan Santana ended up going to the Mets for nothing. That’s the benchmark teams will use when making offers to Toronto.
The Yankees also aren’t inheriting bad contracts, give up prospects to obtain an over 30 pitcher AND pay that pitcher significant dollars.
In case some missed it, the Yankees won the World Series this year. They did it by REDUCING payroll from 2008, adding the RIGHT players, and protecting their farm system.
They aren’t going to stray from a successful philosophy this off-season. Especially when they don’t have to in order to win.
Molina could have put some more muscle on. I remember last season he was burnt out/injured a little from catching so many games with posada being out. I read he worked real hard for the 09 season in case he had to be a starting catcher again.
Betsy –
Ignore Buster. He was among the ones who said that there was no way CC was coming to the Yankees because he was going to take less to pitch on the West Coast and that Tex was going to Boston.
Any interest in making a Swisher-esque deal (as in low level players who are up for Rule V) to Atlanta for Ryan Church?
It doesn’t matter if you care about the payroll or not. The Yankees care. THAT’S what matters.
They aren’t raising payroll to any significant levels this year. Ain’t gonna happen.
In fact, if they can reduce it, they will reduce it.
They now have a philosophy in place that will help them win for a long time. A balance between youth, experience, minor league development and payroll/roster flexibility.
Once you start taking on bad contracts again, you reduce your flexibility.
Go back and follow Yankee history. When they took on bad contracts, they didn’t win for years.
This year is like 1996 again. They won AND they are well positioned for the future.
There isn’t a single player available this off-season that will change that plan.
Christmas shopping will be fun this year ! Championship memorabilia and Championship gear !
SJ is right – the Yankees are not taking on any more bad contracts. They finally just got out from under the albatross of Giambi, Pavano, etc….; why would they go there again? Just to get Halladay? Forget Doc – the Yankees are not paying the $$$ and the prospects it will take to acquire him.
As I said, I’m concerned about their plan for this year if they don’t even think OF is a priority.
SJ, this is still basically a very old team. The Yankees had better hope that Joba performs this year and that Phil shows some progress…….Are you assuming that Pena and Cervelli will replace Hairston and Molina? I hope not – I don’t think Pena makes this team better and I think if he struggles in his role (which he is likely to do), the Yankees will have to go get a Hairston-type all over again. I like Cash’s plan, but he’s still years away from seeing his plan (of having a mostly home-grown, younger team) come to fruition….if that.
I have no clue what the Yankees plan for this year is beyond trying to re-sign Damon and Matsui; they’d better get one in place, though. Even if they sign this year, we’re going to go through this same thing next year. I don’t want either one for 2 years…..
SJ44 -
I’m aware that Hal cares about payroll – he’s going to keep it right around where it is now – which is fine. If you can’t field a playoff team for 200 mil then that’s a problem with your talent evaluators.
There are lots of way to bring in even better talent this year for a lower payroll than the team had last year:
Molina, Hinske, and Hairston are going to be replaced by guys making the ML minimum. Damon and/or Matsui won’t be back, and if one or both of them are back it will be for less than the 13 mil they each made last year; so there’s that money as well.
Andy ended up making 11 mil last year in his contract + bonuses so I would imagine he is about at the same number. Wang is cut and his money should augment anything Melky makes in arbitration.
So basically you’re looking at close to 30 mil off the payroll that they can do any number of things with.
SJ44 – Do you intentionally make your posts more in depth so that you sound smarter? Just a few lines covers it all. Ca$hman values his prospects, will not spend money foolishly any longer and the free agent class this year is not great.
I do agree though – the Yankees aren’t going to take on some team’s bad contract just to get a better player for less.
Now, if Anthopolus turns to Cashman and says, “tell your owners that I’m prepared to send Halladay to the Red Sox, but if you take Vernon Wells we’ll send you Wells and Halladay for Nick Swisher, Kei Igawa, and Juan Miranda” Cashman and Hal would have to think about it, simply because on the books this year that would be a wash as far as Wells is concerned and Cashman wouldn’t have to part with any prospects. At the same time, I don’t see anyway Anthopolus does that – though if he wants to move VW that’s what he’s going to have to settle for.
Though here’s a deal that would make some sense:
Wells to San Fran for Barry Zito – doesn’t get either team out from under the bad contract but it does give both teams a bad contract attached to a player they could use.
I’m getting the idea that the “non-interest” that the Yankees have in Holliday might be similar to the way Cashman said that there was no way the Yankees had the budget to sign both Tex and Sabathia.
Would it shock anyone if we get around Christmas and Cashman swooped on a still un-signed Matt Holliday?
Just because there arent attractive free agent outfielders on the market this year or next, doesnt mean the yanks won’t make a trade for somebody (please, no granderson).
The Yanks are thin in high level position players in the minors, but they have a ton of high level pitching prospects between high A and the big club. Guys like Nova, McAllister, Kennedy, Banuellos, Melancon, etc… And that doesnt even include Hughes, Joba or Robertson.
If cash wants to get something done, he has the chips to do it. But he’s made it clear that he won’t have tunnel vision when it comes to winning a championship. He wont sacrifice the health of the team for the next 5 years just so the Yanks have a better chance to win in 2010.
It’s hard for some fans to accept, but you have to look at the big picture now. Because that’s how the team is looking at things.
What is Wang’s contract status?
I believe the Yankees can offer him an option this next year or release him to free agency.
Do you guys wait and see how he pitches in a simulation game in a few months, or do you cut your loss right now and release him?
Seems like he could stay healthy he would be an integral part of the starting rotation.
Chip
November 16th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
I do agree though – the Yankees aren’t going to take on some team’s bad contract just to get a better player for less.
Now, if Anthopolus turns to Cashman and says, “tell your owners that I’m prepared to send Halladay to the Red Sox, but if you take Vernon Wells we’ll send you Wells and Halladay for Nick Swisher, Kei Igawa, and Juan Miranda” Cashman and Hal would have to think about it, simply because on the books this year that would be a wash as far as Wells is concerned and Cashman wouldn’t have to part with any prospects. At the same time, I don’t see anyway Anthopolus does that – though if he wants to move VW that’s what he’s going to have to settle for.
Though here’s a deal that would make some sense:
Wells to San Fran for Barry Zito – doesn’t get either team out from under the bad contract but it does give both teams a bad contract attached to a player they could use.
===========================================================
I think the yankees make that trade (wells/halladay for Swish/igawa/miranda) even if the redsox weren’t involved – and then poor alex anthopolos goes to the unemployment line with his old buddy jp ricciardi..
i think as bad as zito has been its still a steal for the blue jays if they were to get him for wells…
having said that – wells has been absolutely horrific the last 3 years – do you think injuries have played a part in that? He has had some serious injuries the last 3 years – and like jeter this year maybe he just needs to be 100% healthy to be the player he once was…just a thought..
There is some amount of Money the Yankees would be willing to pay to get Halladay. Picking up all of Well’s contract is probably more than that amount. Pickig up half of Well’s contract may still be too much but its is probably worth discussing. It is possible NY and Toronto could come to an agreement on an amount of money or some combination of money and players that would be acceptable to both parties to allow the Yankee to essentailly buy Halladay by taking on a portion of Well’s contract.
The primary reason I don’t expect this to happen is the luxury tax. If the Yankees have to pay an additional 40% on the amount of Well’s salary it is probably a deal breaker. Toronto may also balk at the idea of trading Haladay and Wells within their own division. It could be very embarrassing if both of them continue to play well against them and they don’t get any significant players in return.
It’s always so amusing and yet annoying that some here absolutely KNOW the Yanks won’t do this or that. Psst, no, you don’t KNOW, you think.
No one KNOWS if Halladay will accept any trade or if he’ll only accept trades to one, two or three teams or anything else. No one KNOWS if he’ll demand an extension, though last summer he did once say “not necessarily”.
I think it would be pure lunacy for anyone to consider taking on Vernon Wells’ contract. I don’t KNOW that the Yankees wouldn’t do it, but I sure hope not.
I love sharing opinions and views and debating suggestions. I just like it better when the folks involve acknowledge they are voicing their opinion and analysis instead of pontificating about what the Yankees will to and won’t do.
As the game says, you don’t KNOW Jack.
Sab -
and then poor alex anthopolos goes to the unemployment line with his old buddy jp ricciardi..
Maybe not.
There are a couple of things to consider one being whether or not ownership would be angry about not getting value for Halladay or happy about dumping Wells
Also, you can argue that it’s to the greater advantage to the Jays to free up the money they have committed to Wells to sign other free agents or retain current players than it is to get a laundry list of top prospects back for Halladay.
Ray -
I think the Yankees will non-tender him and offer him a minor league deal.
The Yankees have seen this day coming for a while based on Wang’s injury history in the minors. You knew they saw it coming because they never made any effort to lock him up long term like they did with Cano.
SJ44–If he is traded, the acquiring team certainly will go all out to sign him just as the Yankees would if they traded for him. So, I must disagree he is a sure bet to hit the fre agent market. Certainly, if he is not traded that is the case. He doesn’t strike me–in my close relationship with him by watching him on TV–to be dying to be a free agent.
Don’t the Cards have an interest in signing Holliday? Aren’t they in danger of losing Pujols if they don’t make an good effort to have a contending team?
Four OF/DH options I would go after in trades:
Josh Willingham
Brad Hawpe
Ryan Church
David DeJesus
Obviously if you were going to pick up two of them the combos would be Hawpe/Willingham with Church/DeJesus. But if Damon and Matsui want multiple years or big money picking up some combo of those four would easily fill the needs of the team.
Thank you Chip for your opinion about Wang. I think what you said makes sense.
Kate -
Absolutely.
Pujols isn’t signing there long term until he sees what ownership is going to do. Plan A would be to keep Holliday, but if they lost him and replaced him by signing (for argument’s sake) Damon and Lackey – I think they could sell that to Albert – plus it would up Albert’s numbers since it would mark the first time he’s had a legitimate leadoff hitter in front of him.
I expect not to see Hinske and Molina not returning but Hairston’s versatility could keep him around.
Even if Cashman only makes a couple of deals, Bruney will go as part of a deal.
I think Halladay hits the free agent market too. Which team is going to pay him 20+M per season starting in 2011?
Ray –
Some team that decides to take a shot on him could get a nice second half addition if he comes back strong.
Stan -
I just think that now that he’s won his title Jerry is going to want to go somewhere that he can play a little more often than he will with the Yankees.
If the Jays were smart they would look at 2009 as a wash. Trade Halladay and Wells to a team that would be willing to take on Wells contract for just 1 good young player. Tell Halladay not sign extension and then resign him with the 90 million they saved on Wells contract.
EXAMPLE Halladay and Wells for Joba or Bucholtz
After 2009 season resign Halladay with the saved Wells money which is about 90 million. From what I read Roy really likes Toronto and would prefer to stay but obviously wants to win.
I can’t believe that anybody would give up something of value for Wells if they were eating the entire contract.
Hell if I was eating the Wells deal I’d want Halladay as a reward. I think Toronto is stuck with that deal unless they want to do Wells for Zito
My guess is the Yanks kick the tires on Halladay but that he opens the season with the Jays unless he publicly demands a trade before then.
If I’m one of the Steinbrothers I want to know Andy Pettite’s plans before doing anything else.
The reason fans care about payroll is because adding a player like Vernon Wells to the roster would stop the Yankees from being able to add players like CC, AJ, and Teixeira. In the next few years, when guys like Felix Hernandez and Joe Mauer are free agents, you will be happy the Yankees didn’t trade for Vernon Wells.
We hashed this Wells thing over and over a few days ago on this blog.
It is an interesting idea, thinking outside the box, and allowing the Jays flexibility in payroll to rebuild.
Then we went to Cot’s to look at the contract, and almost threw up. What an abomination. $20 million plus committed to one player x 4 years out of a payroll of $85 million. How did Riccardi convince the ownership to accept it? The Jays are screwed, big time–there is no way around it. The Players Union and the CBA certainly won’t allow it to be substantially modified.
Can Vernon retire for a year, then come back on a new contract? Would the CBA allow it? That appears to be the only way out of that mess.
The Marlins are my 2nd favorite team (next the Yankees of course, and the Yankees always take precedent when they play each other). I’m so happy Cogs won, I was thinking there was no chance he’d win since the national media doesn’t pay any attention to the Marlins. And Cogs deserved the win, he hit like a machine once Nick Johnson came over.