Bailey: ‘My goal was just to make an impression’
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Oakland general manager Billy Beane has been willing to swap closers year in and year out, more or less operating under the assumption that his team can eventually find someone capable of handling the ninth inning. Beane let Jason Isringhausen walk away via free agency. He traded Billy Koch and Huston Street. Not every team has the luxury of Mariano Rivera — if Rivera were in Oakland, I’m betting Beane would change his closer strategy — so they have to go searching for ninth-inning relievers.
The A’s found a gem in Rookie of the Year Andrew Bailey, who just last year had a 6.18 Double-A ERA at the all-star break. After the break, the A’s told Bailey they were going to do one of two things: Convert him to the bullpen or move him down to High-A. They went with the bullpen idea and he finished the season with a 0.92 ERA as a reliever, still in Double-A.
“It was my first big league spring training camp (this spring) so my goal was just to make an impression on the organization and the major league coaching staff,” Bailey said during this afternoon’s conference call. “… Hopefully when September call-ups came around or they needed help in the bullpen, my name was one of the first to come out of their mouth.”
Bailey said he was nervous facing Double-A hitters. He went away from his aggressive nature and started trying to sink the ball and hit corners. Moving to the bullpen got him out of that mode.
It’s a story worth remembering this spring. The Yankees aren’t going to be looking for a closer, but they might be looking for someone to jump into that eighth inning role. We can try to dissect the candidates all winter — and we probably will — but the fact is that very few people would have guessed that Phil Hughes would fill that role this season. Every one brought into camp can become a legitimate candidate. Things can suddenly click for a pitcher. I have no idea why or how, but we’ve all seen it happen, and it could happen again.
UPDATE, 3:41 p.m.: Speaking of surprises. Florida’s Chris Coghlan had also never played above Double-A before this season, he had never played the outfield until the day before he was called up from Triple-A and he had never been a lead-off hitter until Florida put him at the top of the order.
Out of spring training, Coghlan was sent to Triple-A where he opened in the infield. During today’s conference call, Coghlan said he was told that the Marlins were going to move him to the outfield with hopes of a possible call-up in a week or so. He played one game in left field, caught no fly balls, and joined the Marlins in Colorado the next day.
“I felt like I had an opportunity to make this team (out of spring training),” Coghlan said. “Obviously that didn’t work, I went to Triple-A. I didn’t want to go to Triple-A, but it was a blessing for me.”
When he got to the big leagues, Coghlan hit .212 for the first month. After the all-star break he hit .372, batting better than .380 in each of the last two months.
“There wasn’t any doubt,” Coghlan said. “This game, I feel like always confidence is such a huge thing. Even though I had never done anything in the major leagues, I was confident in what I had done in years past.”
Understandably, I’ve always gotten a lot of questions about who from Triple-A can help the big league team. There are always one or two names tha jump to mind immediately, but I like to say — and I honestly believe — anyone who gets to Triple-A has enough talent to help at the big league level. It’s a matter of opportunity, and it’s usually a matter of one or two things coming together.
Be excited about Austin Jackson and Jesus Montero, but don’t discount the rest. Remember that Francisco Cervelli was pretty awful in Trenton before his call-up this season. Baseball is a long season and player development is a long process. Help can come from just about anywhere.
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on Monday, November 16th, 2009 at 3:35 pm by Chad Jennings.
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By the way, it looks like Jeter is hosting SNL on December 19th with JayZ and Alicia Keys as his musical guests. I wonder what song they’re going to sing on that show?
This is why I’m less convinced that Mark Melancon is the “closer of the future” and think that role is likely to fall to one of the starters in the system (not Joba – but maybe Andrew Brackman)
If you look around, several good closers started out as starters, and very few were relievers all through the minors.
crawdaddy
November 16th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
By the way, it looks like Jeter is hosting SNL on December 19th with JayZ and Alicia Keys as his musical guests. I wonder what song they’re going to sing on that show?
****************
that’s awesome. I had a feeling somebody from the Yankees would be hosting soon. Did he specifically request the musical guests? LOL
Robertson looks like a good 8th inning candidate out of what we have there now.
Yep, definitely Robertson. His K ratio is tremendous.
I just checked out Vernon Wells. According to a recent Toronto newspaper story, which is presumably accurate, Wells UZR was the worst in the league in center field and his WAR is the fourth worst in baseball. All that for only about $20M/year. They concluded he is completely untradeable. I agree.
I just hope Hughes will forget about his horrible postseason and move on.
It takes a while for young pitchers to get it and excel. I am pleased overall with Phil and Joba this year despite their yips.
did i hear rivera say he wants to play 5 more years. cash, give the man a 4 year extension. And i know he says he needs to worry about current free agents first, but dont let jeter go into this season without an extension. it will be a distraction and all media and all announcers will talk about it every time he comes to bat.
Not sold on Robertson for the 8th inning. Allows inherited runners to score, too many walks.
If Damon goes elsewhere, who hits in two hole? Swisher???
If Pettitte retires is there another FA lefty you’d be interested in? Davis, Wolf, Bedard?
Any interest in Betancourt for bullpen?
crawdaddy
November 16th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
By the way, it looks like Jeter is hosting SNL on December 19th with JayZ and Alicia Keys as his musical guests. I wonder what song they’re going to sing on that show?
**************
That’s my birthday!!!!!! Awesome b-day present. (Signing Johnny Damon will complete the package)
Why are we still talking about Vernon Wells? Hasn’t Cashman’s recent history taught you guys anything? He’s not taking on that horrible contract especially after winning the WS title.
Not sold on Robertson for the 8th inning. Allows inherited runners to score, too many walks.
___
As the 8th inning guy, he would START the 8th inning. no inherited runners.
Beane couldn’t afford Rivera.
I just checked out Vernon Wells. According to a recent Toronto newspaper story, which is presumably accurate, Wells UZR was the worst in the league in center field and his WAR is the fourth worst in baseball. All that for only about $20M/year. They concluded he is completely untradeable. I agree.
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I agree also.There is no chance the Yankees will absorb any part of that backloaded contract. If you are looking at stats and want a possible one year option, albeit 36 yo option, then Mike Cameron would be reasonable. His defense is superior to most other cf’ers and he has a decent OBA, although he strikes out often.
From MLBTR
This is right after Wells signed his extension back in the day
Peter Gammons, ESPN: “If you’re going to give $18 million to somebody, you want them to be as diligent and as reliable as Vernon. If he went out in the market next year, with Andruw Jones, and Ichiro, and Torii Hunter, I really believe that at his age he might be #1.”
If Damon leaves I think the Yankees need to bring in another player to hit 2nd. With the way Jeter hit leading off, I think the Yankees need to keep him at the top of the order. Swisher has a high OBP, but he isn’t the situational hitter you want hitting 2nd.
As far as replacing Matsui at the 5 spot, I think Cano could do a decent job. Posada is obviously an option, but he is going to be out of the lineup a lot as he’s going to be a 38 year old catcher next year. I like the idea of having the top 5 hitters pretty much set and then go with Posada, Swisher, the DH, and Melky to round out the bottom of the order.
All that is assuming that Damon and Matsui aren’t coming back. I’m still hoping they both come back on 1 year deals, maybe 2 for Damon.
I can see the Yankees taking a chance on Bedard. He did pitch pretty well with Baltimore and he’s a lefty. Even if Andy resigns, it’d be nice to have THREE lefties in Yankee Stadium. Sabathia/Burnett/Bedard/Petitte/Wang-Hughes-Joba-Gaudin. I have the feeling, though, that the Yanks are going to pull off a big trade for Doc Halladay. I think we may have seen the last of Joba and Cano in a Yankees uniform.
As for the eight inning, I also like Robertson. He seemed really comfortable coming out of the bullpen, and if the Yankees intend to have Joba start (the guy who SHOULD be in the 8th inning), then Robertson should be the guy.
crawdaddy
November 16th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
By the way, it looks like Jeter is hosting SNL on December 19th with JayZ and Alicia Keys as his musical guests. I wonder what song they’re going to sing on that show?
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Umm best news I heard all day. My friends and I quote the yankee-wives scene all the time ( I’m pretty sure we are all still mentally 16 years old).
That’s my birthday!!!!!! Awesome b-day present. (Signing Johnny Damon will complete the package)
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I just hope you’re not home watching it in your pajamas!
the number 2 spot is tough. swisher doesnt have a high enough average, cano makes sense except his really lousy hitting with runners on this year.
Cameron strikes out too much to add to a lineup with nick swisher.
i still think once damon realizes that no one will give him more than 2/18, he will be back next year. I know age becomes an issue with him and matsui, but really there is nothing better out there without paying 18m/year.
Erica – always OPPC
November 16th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
crawdaddy
November 16th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
By the way, it looks like Jeter is hosting SNL on December 19th with JayZ and Alicia Keys as his musical guests. I wonder what song they’re going to sing on that show?
**************
That’s my birthday!!!!!! Awesome b-day present. (Signing Johnny Damon will complete the package)
*****************
Maybe Johnny will make a surprise appearance on SNL.
I think we may have seen the last of Joba and Cano in a Yankees uniform.
___
It makes no sense. We are talking about pitching depth here. Doc is nice, but giving up Joba doesnt add depth.
I would love to have halladay on our team, but not at the expense of Joba, Hughes, Cano, Jackson, Romine, Montero, etc…
So unless the Jays are smoking something, the yanks and sox will not be getting doc this year.
the phillies are still the leaders to pull that one off.
i LOVE johnny damon, but he’s done
i LOVE matsui, but they need the dh spot for jorge and the other 35+ers.
the 2 hole is tough, swisher doesnt make enough contact and jeter/cano together dont see enough pitches…matt holiday anyone?
posada with 100 games behind the plate and 50 at dh fits the 5 hole great.a power bat for dh/ph
Bronx Jeers
November 16th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
That’s my birthday!!!!!! Awesome b-day present. (Signing Johnny Damon will complete the package)
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I just hope you’re not home watching it in your pajamas!
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No, I will enlist my trusty DVR. I have no clue what I am doing that night yet. But its going to be fun.
Since its a Saturday night, I was debating an AC trip, but I am going to Vegas a week and a half later. So that seemed like a bit much…. (even for me).
sorry they need a power bat for dh/ph.
“anyone who gets to Triple-A has enough talent to help at the big league level. It’s a matter of opportunity, and it’s usually a matter of one or two things coming together.”
You would definitely know better than us, Chad.
They always say that, more often than not, a team’s best/blue-chip prospects are in Double A.
I don’t see the Yankees signing Boras client, Holliday, for the 100M+ contract he’ll probably get.
Damon might just get a 3 year contract to stay in NY—-with the Mets.
Any interest in Marlon Byrd for LF[20 homers] or DeJesus[13 assists, no errors]?
There are so many DH types out there that Matsui’s options are limited.
“I have the feeling, though, that the Yanks are going to pull off a big trade for Doc Halladay. I think we may have seen the last of Joba and Cano in a Yankees uniform”
Cash is not going to create huge holes in a championship roster just to get Halladay.If they felt that they needed him that bad he’d have been here in August.
I love DRob but i don’t think he will be the 8th inning guy as i think that internally the Yanks see Melancon as the better pitcher with higher quality stuff so i can eventually see him moving into that role and being “shut down” once he gets his feet under him. I can also see any one of Duff,Dunn and Romulo Sanchez coming up and playing a big role in the ‘pen next season maybe.
They always say that, more often than not, a team’s best/blue-chip prospects are in Double A.
__
No, they say that there is more talent at AA because AAA is often filled with replacement level veterans looking to hang on, but a team’s best prospects usually spend time at AAA as well as AA.
Toronto has Aaron Hill. They don’t need Cano.
“From MLBTR
This is right after Wells signed his extension back in the day
Peter Gammons, ESPN: “If you’re going to give $18 million to somebody, you want them to be as diligent and as reliable as Vernon. If he went out in the market next year, with Andruw Jones, and Ichiro, and Torii Hunter, I really believe that at his age he might be #1.”
”
Why is this quote being brought up again? It wasn’t an outlandish statement to make at the time. No one knew Wells would fall off the way he has. Could one have made the argument that he deserved 15 instead of 18 million? Sure, but that’s irrelevant.
The real story is the way the contract was structured:
- signed extension December, 2006 -
‘07 – 5.6 mil
- extension kicks in -
‘08 – 9 mil
‘09 – 10 mil
- now -
‘10 – 21 mil
‘11 – 23 mil
‘12 – 21 mil
‘13 – 21 mil
‘14 – 21 mil
Did Ricciardi just hope that the other GM wouldn’t bother to check Wells’ contract when trading for him?
If I had to lower the payroll 10M, just below 200M, I’d like Damon on a one year, club option for a 2nd, with him mostly as DH.
I’d look to FA Marlon Byrd for LF or trade for Granderson for CF,putting Melky in LF, or trade for DeJesus for LF.
Resign Pettitte, look to sign another reliever like Betancourt or Calero, and prepare for WS 28!
Robertson is as good as Bard. He can close if he had to.
Pass on Marlon Byrd.
i like dejesus alot in LF. they could sign him for LF and keep melky/gardner in center, and still drop the payroll below $200M
DeJesus doesn’t have as much value in LF as he does in CF and he isn’t that good in CF anymore.
“No, they say that there is more talent at AA because AAA is often filled with replacement level veterans looking to hang on, but a team’s best prospects usually spend time at AAA as well as AA.”
to-may-to, to-mah-to
You’re also right. My post was a bit too general. You usually hear the axiom expressed as: if you want to see a team’s best prospects, you should look at AA.
Do those guys sometimes get to AAA? Of course. But as you correctly said, there’s so much filler/AAAA in AAA. However, collectively, there’s definitely more talent in AAA, but so many of those guys have plateu’d. In terms of high-talent, high-upside players, AA is often the place.
Both Damon and Matsui have professed that they want to stay in New York.
Damon has to bypass the wishes of Scott Boras and accept a 1-year deal with an team option of a 2nd year. Much the same with Matsui.
If one elects to leave, move fast on Marlon Byrd.
DeJesus doesn’t have as much value in LF.
———————————————
Why? Bad arm. He did have 13 assists in LF. Bad routes to ball? Little speed? What’s your reasoning on not wanting him or Marlon Byrd as cheaper outfield options?
“If I had to lower the payroll 10M, just below 200M, I’d like Damon on a one year, club option for a 2nd, with him mostly as DH.”
That’s what the Yankees would like too, but it isn’t going to happen. With Boras as his agent, they are asking for 4 years or more, probably expecting to settle for 3. No way Damon/Boras is taking 1 yr w/ club option. If he comes down to 2 years, guaranteed, it will be after exhausting the market, IMO. By that time, the Yankees will have found a replacement for Damon. I think Damon is the most unlikely of their 3 big FAs to be back next year, mostly because of his contract demands and his agent not matching up with what I ecpect that the Yanks are willing to do.
I’d like to argue that guys like Shelley Duncan, at the AAA level, are simply unable to help at the major league level/aren’t talented enough to play at that level on a consistent basis.
Duncan is the quintessential AAAA player.
He’s a good guy and I love his enthusiasm, but he’ll be stuck in AAA for as long as he’s in the Yankee farm system unless they’re desperate for an OF or the rosters expand.
Mark in Tampa,
Ya, unfortunately, Boras is going to drive Damon elsewhere.
Its a nice concept to think that a guy would give a discount to play in NY, but who are we kidding? Damon did what he set out to do with NY…my guess is that from now on he’ll be playing for the almighty dollar for the last few decent remaining years he has ahead of him.
Bummer.
Stan, don’t you think that if Damon ends up elsewhere, the Yankees might as well give a guy like Jackson the opportunity to get the job in LF or CF?
Seems like a waste of money to bring in a guy like Byrd. Is he going to be THAT much better than Jerry Hairson would be in LF?
Personally, I hope the Yankees avoid Holliday and Bay like the plague.
One concern with Byrd is his home/away splits. In 2009:
home – .873 ops, 14 hrs
away – .740 ops, 6 hrs
The split was even more dramatic in 2008. .911 ops vs. .772
The new Yankee Stadium may play similarly to the Ballpark @ Arlington, but its too soon to tell. Seemed like the ball carried better early in the year, but the Yanks’ HR total was greater in the 2nd half (could mean a lot of things).
Mark-
Totally agree on Damon. By the time Boras gets him his 3 years the Yankees will have found a replacement.
Matsui on the other hand is competing with the likes of Guerrero, Thome, Hinske, Giambi, Andruw Jones,Garret Anderson, Sheffield, Tatis, Stairs, Glaus, Giles, Kearns, etc.
Yankee Trader,
I’d argue that Matsui is the best of that bunch of DHs.
“DeJesus doesn’t have as much value in LF as he does in CF and he isn’t that good in CF anymore.”
Fangraphs disagrees:
“over the last three seasons, DeJesus has been practically equal in value to Hunter (whose overrated-ness is seriously underrated) and Damon (just plain overrated); DeJesus has been more valuable than Ethier and Jason “Do People Seriously Think I’m Anywhere Close to as Good as Matt Holliday?” Bay. All five are good, but would DeJesus ever be offered a 5/$90M deal?”
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ns-destiny
I’d argue that Matsui is the best of that bunch of DHs
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He is, but how many teams in the AL need a DH, and would pay 9-10M for one. He’s not playing the field, especially after going another clean-up knee operation.
the number 2 spot is tough. swisher doesnt have a high enough average, cano makes sense except his really lousy hitting with runners on this year.
Cameron strikes out too much to add to a lineup with nick swisher
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maybe if NYY were able to land Granderson, he could hit #2
an offer of: Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy (or McCallister), and Brian Bruney
whoever said no to Holliday/Bay, i agree. They signed Tex last year instead
“I’d like to argue that guys like Shelley Duncan, at the AAA level, are simply unable to help at the major league level/aren’t talented enough to play at that level on a consistent basis.”
He’s definitely not talented enough to play for the Yankees on a consistent basis.
Could he play everday for a team that desperately needs cheap power from a stop-gap? Possibly.
is DeJesus a FA ??
vinny b,
That’s too much to give up for Granderson IMO.
Yankee Trader,
I agree…don’t you love how the media is starting to say that Boston is interested in Matsui to play LF? ha
That guy can’t play LF if his life depended on it.
I love him, but his days as an OFer are long since passed.
vinny-b, no he’s not. He’s just one of those names that folks have brought up here…
I’d pass on Marlon Byrd as i doubt that he’d repeat his career year #’s and his power wouldn’t translate in our ballpark. He’s been a platoon player in his career and i’d be very leery of paying him like a starter after a great 4mos…
the last thing the Yanks will/should do is sign a reliever when they are fairly set in the pen and have 5-6 pen options in SWB making no $. This is where Cash has the inventory to save $ on payroll.
If they were to get an arm i’d prefer the get either Rafael Soriano or Mike Gonzalez who could set up for Mo and step in and close having previously been sucessful at it in the event that Mo goes down with an injury. Neither Calero nor Betancourt could close for this team.
The move here withthis roster is save $ where you can and spend on a talent like Chapman and coach him up for 2011 season debut
vin,
Ya, Duncan probably could play somewhere.
I feel bad for the guy…I think he deserves a shot somewhere else.
Repost (didn’t know the old thread was closed)
We hashed this Wells thing over and over a few days ago on this blog.
It is an interesting idea, thinking outside the box, and allowing the Jays flexibility in payroll to rebuild.
Then we went to Cot’s to look at the contract, and almost threw up. What an abomination. $20 million plus committed to one player x 4 years out of a payroll of $85 million. How did Riccardi convince the ownership to accept it? The Jays are screwed, big time–there is no way around it. The Players Union and the CBA certainly won’t allow it to be substantially modified.
Can Vernon retire for a year, then come back on a new contract? Would the CBA allow it? That appears to be the only way out of that mess.
David DeJesus of
5 years/$13.8M (2006-2010), plus 2011 club option
5 years/$13.8M (2006-10), plus 2011 club option
signed extension with Kansas City 3/06
06:$0.5M, 07:$2M, 08:$2.5M, 09:$3.6M, 10:$4.7M, 11:$6M club option ($0.5M buyout)
if DeJesus does not qualify for arbitration as a Super 2 after 2006, the contract value is reduced to $11.95M (06:$0.5M, 07:$0.6M, 08:$2.3M, 09:$3.45M, 10:$4.6M, 11:$6M / $0.5M buyout)
1 year/$0.32M (2005)
renewed by Kansas City 3/05
drafted by Kansas City 2000 (4-104)
$0.245M signing bonus
agent: Dan Horwits
ML service: 4.146
Boston interested in Matsui?
What a laugher.
So they will then have Ortiz, JD Drew, Mike Lowell, Jason Varitek, Tim Wakefield, and Matsui on the 25 man?
They are only 8 blocks from some of the best medical and rehab care in the world at Fenway, so I guess at least that part makes sense….
My guess is that if the Yankees are going to make any big splashes on the trade market, it will be for an impact CF or SP.
Beyond that, I just don’t see them doing too much.
I think you’ll hear a lot about them looking at Lackey, but in the end I hope they don’t sign him.
2010 could be an interesting year for the Yankees…their success will really hinge on what kind of moves they make this offseason which is why I genuinely believe they’re going to trade for a BIG ARM.
The most watched Yankees in spring training will be Austin Jackson and Mark Melancon. If both make good impressions, Hinske and Bruney are only memories.
PittsburghYankeeFan,
Just another ploy to drive up the price.
Only way Matsui is going to Boston is if they plan to play him in LF or trade Ortiz.
“The most watched Yankees in spring training will be Austin Jackson and Mark Melancon. If both make good impressions, Hinske and Bruney are only memories.”
It’s pretty much assumed that AJax goes back to SWB, but how great would it be if he just tore up ST and forced his way onto the roster by May? It’s fun to dream.
“Damon might just get a 3 year contract to stay in NY—-with the Mets.”
Why would the Mets sign Damon? He can hardly play left in the Stadium. Left field at Citi field would swallow him up. More ground to cover.
Yankees should offer Damon 2 years at 18 million, same contract Abreau got from the Angels. If Damon turns it down, say goodbye.
______________________________________________
I would give Robertson the 8th inning. Think he can handle it.
I think Jackson needs to be given the opportunity, but I am also going out of my way to temper my expectations because I am vastly opposed to the over-hyping of prospects who haven’t done jack for the Yankees yet.
Rose,
I agree on Robertson…not quite sure I’d assign the 8th to him out of the gates, but if Marte is throwing well out of ST, then why not let he and Robertson share the 8th…maybe even throw Joba or Hughes in there again to start the season, see how it shakes out early on.
Just sign:
-matsui a 1year deal
-damon a 2year deal
-pettite a 1year deal
-byrd a deal(4th outfielder)
-hairston a 1year deal
-hinske a 1year deal(he bring good luck)
-wang a minor league deal
-one of harden/bedard/sheets
SR
sabathia
burnett
pettite
harden/bedard/sheets
chamberlain
BP:
rivera,hughes,marte,robertson,aceves,bruney/melancon,coke/dunn
Lineup:SS jeter,LF damon,1B texiera,3B rodriguez,DH matsui,C posada,2B cano,RF swisher,CF cabrera
Bench:byrd,cervelli,hairston,hinske
roger,
I think 2010 is the year they should try and get Hughes pegged for the rotation.
i stay away from harden/bedard/sheets unless you can get them on incentive laden deals, especially harden and sheets
The Mad Prince in Pinstripes
Why?he feels good pitching in the BP.He likes it and can replace Mo when he’s retired.
Besides…you can’t count on Roterson being the 8th inn guy for a whole season.I like Robertson but let him settle as a 7th inn guy for now
The Mad Prince in Pinstripes
I think the Yankees will have Joba and Hughes in the starting rotation.
If Marte can pitch like he did in the post season, he and Roberson will be good as 7/8 inning guys.
I would give Robertson the 8th inning. Think he can handle it
——————————————
thank you. I love David Robertson
Brett Gardner will have to earn his way onto the 25-man roster that heads north out of spring training.
His bat is weak and his speed was significant in just a few games none of which were seen in the postseason.
Rich Harden’s career has to be in the ‘pen, right? He actually stayed healthy enough to make 26 starts, but only averaged about 5.4 innings/start, and 96 pitches/start.
An interesting thing about Harden:
Of all the strikes he got last year, 26% were swung at and missed. MLB average is 15%. By comparison, AJ’s average last year was 14%. CC’s average last year was 18%. All of these numbers are similar to the pitcher’s career average.
Harden is significantly more of a swing and miss pitcher than either CC or AJ. In his career, he strikes out 25% of all batters faced. CC – 20.3%, and AJ – 22%.
Compare that strikeout ratio to Mo’s last 3 years – 27.5%.
Of course Harden walks more guys than MLB average – 10.5% vs. 8.9%. But he gives up fewer hits, extra base hits, and hr’s.
Just food for thought.
The great thing about Robertson is that he pitched in the playoffs and the World Series, in big spots.
Now that he has that out of his system, tough spots in the regular season should be easier.
Can’t really say that about Krazy Kyle, can we? Remember the GS in the playoffs he gave up when he was the 8th inning guy for Atlanta?
Marte is going to have to prove himself before the Yankees consider him for the set up role. Cashman said that his opinion of the guys on the roster isn’t going to drastically change based on 1 month of playoff baseball.
I think Robertson, Aceves, Marte, Bruney, and Melancon are all going to be in the mix for the set up role and hopefully one of them can step up and win the job. A lot of people are down on Bruney, but he was very good early on. I think he had a stretch where he was perfect over 9 innings and it was when he got hurt that the bullpen really started to struggle.
Hmm not a big fan of these ROTY results.
McCutchen should have won it running away, he was by far the most valuable rookie in the NL this year. Not to mention, he has the brightest future of all the rookies (along with Hanson). In 5 years we will look back at this and say “Chris Coghlan? The mediocre utility player for the ?” while McCutchen is going to all-star games.
For the AL, again Bailey wasn’t the right choice (IMO). It probably should have been Jeff Niemann or Brett Anderson. Both had great rookie seasons. Porcello wasn’t really as good as those guys.
Bailey had a good year though, no knocking that. However, again, his future isn’t as bright as some of the other guys we are talking about. Bailey is going to be a set-up man going forward, according to many scouts/analysts.
I know Joba always said that he wants to be a starter…But Hughes seems to be happy to be in the pen.Why not let him stay there?Mo won’t be there forever and Hughes seems to be the perfect guy to replace him
Derek’s hosting on Dec. 19th? I have to watch that.
Phil should not sniff the pen next season, neither should Joba.
Who are all these arms we supposedly have in the minors that are going to be key contributors to our pen? Melancon? He has to prove himself…….but ok, he’s a good arm. Dunn? Has no control….pass.
“But Hughes seems to be happy to be in the pen.Why not let him stay there?Mo won’t be there forever and Hughes seems to be the perfect guy to replace him”
I think Hughes was just happy not to be in AAA.
It’s a pretty well-established fact that a starting pitcher is more valuable than a relief pitcher. The thought is that the most talented arms should be pitching the greatest number of innings.
Hughes pitching 220 innings (in a few years) will help the team than if he were pitching 70 innings out of the bullpen.
The 8th or even 9th innings may seem critical, but the starters have more control over the outcome of a game than anyone else on the team. That’s why, on average starters make much more money than relievers.
Roger, Phil was happy in the pen, but he was very happy as a starter…..The kid is not the complaining type and, in any case, being in the pen in the majors beats the pants out of starting in AAA. He wants to be a starter, he’s always been a starter…….and the Yankees think he and Joba can be a formidable duo for years to come. Neither of them are going to be in the pen for the forseeable future.
AJax is nowhere near ready, but nonetheless, I would still love to see him have a bang up spring, the way he did this year. I’m just looking for progress in AAA…he’s still very young, remember.
I’m about done with Bruney. He’s not healthy (his ligament is said to be hanging by a thread) and I can’t stand his attitude……not to mention he was awful for for most of the year. If he’s healthy, maybe he can be good…..but I still hate his attitude.
Marte’s in the 8th inning mix too…
“Who are all these arms we supposedly have in the minors that are going to be key contributors to our pen? Melancon? He has to prove himself…….but ok, he’s a good arm. Dunn? Has no control….pass.”
Betsy,
Going into last season I was convinced the Yanks had the best BP in the AL. Then Marte got injured, Bruney got injured, Veras and Edwar couldn’t get anybody out. Jonathan Albaladejo, Brett Tomko, Anthony Clagget all flopped.
Aceves proved that last year wasn’t a fluke. DRob showed that he could get ML hitters out. Phil Coke settled in over the summer.
Moral of the story – Bullpens are the most fragile, unpredictable part of any team. I will NEVER make assumptions about the ‘pen until the season gets rolling.
Cashman’s approach of using young, low-cost arms plus Mariano has worked the last two years. It’s the best approach, but one that needs volume to work. My guess is one of the young starters finds himself in the ‘pen (IPK, Nova, Z-Mac, etc.) at some point.
Where did you read that Bruney’s “ligament is said to be hanging by a thread”?
I think Hughes should go to the rotation, joba to the pen, he is a differentt pitcher out of the pen, he’s not physically built to throw 7+ innings. Let matsui go since posadas aging, sign Damon for a 2 yr deal with a trade claus. “let Jackson mature another yr and resign Wang. He has alot to offer injuries plagued him the past couple yrs. And being pettitte back for a one yr deal. That’s basically the same team from this yr and they will defend their title well. That said in 2011 sign Carl Crawford for left Jackson in center, melky in right that would be a much improved outfield
Why do people see Marte as a 8th inn guy.He did a great job in the WS striking out LEFTY’S..
I like Robertson as well but with Joba,Hughes and Pettite going 5 or 6inn he will have to pitch a lot of games a whole season long.Don’t know if he’s up to that already
Another reason why I like Robertson, he is young but never seems to get rattled. And Gerardi bought him into games with runners on. He didn’t baby him by letting him start innings.
“joba to the pen, he is a differentt pitcher out of the pen, he’s not physically built to throw 7+ innings.”
But Tim Lincecum is? Joba absolutely has the body to start. Can his shoulder handle it? Only Joba knows that.
The Yankees obviously have all his medical information, they know both him and baseball players better than any of us, and they are insistant that he will be starting. That has to be evidence enough.
Valerie G.
November 16th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Derek’s hosting on Dec. 19th? I have to watch that.
*********************
Valerie-I haven’t watched SNL at all this season, but if Derek’s on it’s a must watch!
I’m not so sure Austin Jackson will be in Spring Training with thge Yankees.
Anyone who wants to keep Phil in the pen w/o at least giving him the opportunity to start ballgames is a fool similar to those who were insisting that Joba remain in the 8th inning role.
You have to at least give guys the opportunity to see if they can be effective in the rotation.
Now, with that, I am not ready to give up on Joba by any means, but I think that the first half of 2010 is going to be important for him in terms of what he shows the Yankees brass.
If I’m going to groom Hughes or Joba to be Mo’s successor, its going to be Joba, but I’d like to see both of them succeed as starters.
Vin, good post……and I agree. I would imagine IPK would be the 6th starter (should we need him); McAllister is suppoed to be a #3 type starter in the majors, but isn’t he considered a couple of years away? Robertson took a leap forward this year and I think we need to hope that Coke does the same. Melancon? We’ll see……..he was unimpressive in his first big league stint, but he’s obviously got talent. He’ll be very interesting to watch.
No. 27, I don’t recall, but I remember reading it at the time that Bruney got his MRI……
Phil, why not? It’s ok by me if he’s not…..but he was in camp this spring, so I just assumed…..
“I’m not so sure Austin Jackson will be in Spring Training with thge Yankees.”
He was in camp last year. And once he gets added to the 40 man roster later this month, he’ll definitely be in camp.
yeah vin, unless he gets traded in the next few weeks, which I sort of think he will.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....-1.1592578
SI will be choosing their Sportsman of the Year soon and Ben Reiter nominated CC:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
Don’t be surprised if Wilkin DeLaRosa isn’t moved back to the bullpen and into the 8th inning or closer spot for Scranton, next year.
Betsy,
McAllister was in AA nearly all of the year, but he got a start in the AAA playoffs because they were shorthanded. Pitched pretty well, especially for a young guy in that spot.
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ins-16997/
I think he projects to be a middle of the rotation pitcher based on his stuff, but apparently he is pretty advanced for his age – kind of like Ian Kennedy.
As far as Melancon goes…
what keeps me optimistic about him is the fact that the reason he struggled in the big leagues was because of something that he’s never had problems with before – his control.
Last year in the minors, he averaged 1.9 walks per 9 innings. In the big leagues he was walking 5.5 guys per 9. He still allowed fewer hits than innings pitched (probably because he was too busy walking guys).
I chalk the wildness up to nerves, and giving the hitters too much credit. Once he realizes that he doesn’t have to be perfect on every pitch, he’ll be very good.
I’d be much more concerned if he didn’t walk guys but got hit hard.
“yeah vin, unless he gets traded in the next few weeks, which I sort of think he will.”
Oh, I got you now.
Vin, thanks for the info on McAllister. Hmm, I’m not sure how I feel about Melancon……..For me, I need to see it to believe it. I don’t mean he should be lights out, but he was extremely wild (enough with the hit batsmen) and he seemed rather fragile out there…..
Yeah, time will tell re: Melancon.
For now, I’m banking my hope on his 155 minor league innings, instead of his 16 major league innings.
Today in the AFL, Brandon Laird was 3-3 with a double, a run scored and 2 walks (hitting .337).
Colin Curtis was 0-2 with 2 runs scored, 2 walks and 2 strikeouts.
Mike Dunn pitched 1 inning, 2 hits, 2 runs (unearned), 1 walk, 4 strikeouts.
Zach Kroenke pitched 1 inning, 2 hits, 1 run (earned), 0 walks, 2 strikeouts, 1 wild pitch, 1 save.
Mike Dunn – 1 IP, 4 Ks. Sounds about right.
GB7 -
I gather one of those strikeouts was one of the reasons for one of the unearned runs.
Even on a hitless day, my friend Colin Curtis is productive…
Strkeout, batter got to first one the passed ball.
Doreen, Curtis has been a big surprised. It’s his extra base production that’s really come along. 7 doubles, 2 triples, 3 homers, 16 runs scored, 14 RBI in 68 at bats. They have played him about every other day. That’s the trouble with having Mets and Texas coaches only on the staff.
“I’m not so sure Austin Jackson will be in Spring Training with thge Yankees.”
he’ll be there for sure
I’m not so sure Austin Jackson will be in Spring Training with the yankees.
—————————————
in Detroit ?
Some posters said earlier how they would like to see Phil Hughes in the Starting Rotation in 2010.
Personally, I agree with them.
However, if there is one thing we should all be mindful of, you have to remember that Phil Hughes only threw ~87 Innings last year in the Regular Season (and ~7 Innings in the Playoffs, if I’m correct).
SO – if we learned anything from “The Joba Rules” / Experience – we can only expect to get ~135 – 150 Innings – at the most – out of Phil Hughes next year.
THEN – the question becomes from who / how do we get those extra Innings out of a Slot in our Starting Rotation that will be held by Phil Hughes at the start of the Season?
That is why I have posted earlier that – by signing one big, solid Starting Pitcher this off season – our Pitching Staff in 2010 could look like this:
SP # 1 = CC
SP # 2 = Roy Halladay
SP # 3 = AJ
SP # 4 = Pettite
SP # 5 = Hughes (until end of July / 110 Innings) – then – Wang (from August thru September)
Closer = Mariano
8th Inning = Joba (if used in Halladay Deal, then Robertson)
Lefty Specialist = Marte
Long Man / Spot Starter = Aceves/Gaudin/Mitre/Kennedy
RH Relievers = Melancon/Bruney/Garcia
LH Relievers = Coke/DeLaRosa/Dunn
**PLUS: Phil Hughes can join the Pen in August & September to reach his ~135 – 150 Innings Limit
By making Roy Halladay our major acquisition this Off Season, it solidifies our entire Pitching Staff – making it both dominant and deep.
If there is only one move to be made this off season – this would be it (and – I’d like to add – one that would make me feel awfully good about our chances for having another Parade in the Canyon of Heroes next year!!)
Any comments / thoughts on this idea?
A trade for Granderson wouldn’t make as much sense as a trade for David DeJesus.
Melky can handle CF. Getting a solid RH bat as a 4th OF–(Byrd or Nady, if money is no object. Matt Diaz–he MURDERS lefties–is a cheaper option)–would be a great idea.
(No, not Shelly Duncan…let him move on). DeJesus would replace Damon in LF and batting second. Damon is a +bat, but is terrible in the field, and he has no real track record as a DH or as a PH. MATSUI is the one to retain. Excellent DH, excellent PH. Will undoubtedly sign for less money than Damon!!
Sign Ben Sheets to an incentive laden deal (Hell, they signed a rehabbing Octavio Dotel, didn’t they?).
Jeter/DeJesus/Tex/A-Rod/Matsui/Posada/Cano/Swisher/Melky
Bench: Pena/Hairston/Diaz/Cervelli
Rotation: CC/Burnett/Sheets/Pettitte/Hughes
Bullpen: Coke/Aceves/Robertson/Bruney/Marte/Joba/Mo
Depth: A-Jax (gets another season in AAA to show some power)/Garcia (will be healthy and turn into a bullpen stud)/McAllister (serviceable starter)/Melancon (continues to groom as a closer)/Wang (re-signed+rehabbing)
Gone: Kennedy+Miranda in the deal for DeJesus.
Guys and gals,
Those who subscribe to Pinstripes Plus should poke their heads in: Nardi Q & A has arrived. It’s Part One of a series.
I haven’t read it through, since my hockey team, the Pittsburgh Penguins, is currently in action and sorely needing a win – three finesse defensemen on the shelf.
Needless to say, Contreras will be giving a state of the pitching in the system. Enjoy.
Dunn has a long way to go to make the 2010 roster. In the AFL this fall, he certainly has the strikeouts with 19. That’s the good news. The bad news is 10 hits and 8 walks in 9.1 innings. 2 base runners per innings is not going to cut it.
TheCro,
3rd paragraph:
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....n-relieve/
The belief is that innings limits are based on the pitcher’s career high, which would be Phil’s 146 innings in 2006.
He should, in theory, have a innings limit of about 170-180 next year. Perfectly reasonable for a 5th starter.
GB, thanks for the updates! Laird seems like he can hit – no matter what Keith Law thinks (if he even thinks at all).
I’m not pinning my hopes on Dunn….he doesn’t appear to be much at this point.
“8th Inning = Joba (if used in Halladay Deal, then Robertson)”
—————————————-
Both of them plus others will be needed for Halladay
“Gone: Kennedy+Miranda in the deal for DeJesus.”
———————————————–
Who are you trading for Matt Diaz who is not a FA?
I think the biggest concern about Dunn is that the thing he does best – strike batters out, may be a byproduct of the thing he does worst – pitches without control.
Often times, guys with control problems will rack up strikeouts against lesser competition. However, when they get to the big leagues they struggle because ML batters are less likely to swing at pitches out of the zone.
Hopefully, his Ks come on well-executed pitches. Then maybe you can chalk his wildness up to poor mechanics. I haven’t seen enough of him to know.
vin,
Good observation. I couldn’t imagine more.
Although, the more I think about it. With a guy averaging more than 2 strikeouts per inning, he must have some good “stuff.” Beyond his fastball, and erratic pitches. Just like a million pitchers out there, if he can throw strikes, he’ll be something special.
I couldn’t agree more.*
GB7
Is every other day bad? I mean, is it not enough? Is it normal for AFL?
In any event, that seems like really good production for someone not playing every day. Maybe he’s the PERFECT platoon player.
Betsy
November 16th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
GB, thanks for the updates! Laird seems like he can hit – no matter what Keith Law thinks (if he even thinks at all).
I’m not pinning my hopes on Dunn….he doesn’t appear to be much at this point
————————————————————
NYY has a lot of hope for Dunn. Big fastball, but, not much control. Understandable since he was drafted as an outfielder. Great arm, though.
Laird is a big time power bat. He can hit as well as anybody. His problem will be locating a position. He’s playing 1st and 3rd bases, but, those positions have minor roadblocks. He’ll be in Trenton this year and should be Scranton by mid summer. I’d think that they may give him and Romine some outfield time. Colin Curtis is harder to figure. He hasn’t done much so far, but, his AFL time this year may be the kick start he needs.
This offseason is getting boring already
There is absolutely no news or interesting posts…ahhh
Doreen
November 16th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
GB7
Is every other day bad? I mean, is it not enough? Is it normal for AFL?
In any event, that seems like really good production for someone not playing every day. Maybe he’s the PERFECT platoon player.
————————————————————
Curtis has done well, even though they have him stuck in the 7th or 8th spot in the order. If he can carry this into Scranton, he could have a future. Even if he only becomes a Melky Cabrera type, he’ll be useful. Good defense, a little power, a little speed.
So happy for Matsui.
Since the WS and his MVP award,he has 8 offers so far,that is,from companies wanting him for endorsements.
Read the Japanese BASEBALL site article: Matsui in Demand. http://npbtracker.com
GB7 -
It would be nice for the Yankees to have a good replacement outfielder in their system, that’s not Shelley Duncan.
Or, he can also be a good piece in a trade.
Now is not the time to go wobbly on Joba or Phil.
Joba and Phil are still in the plans for the rotation.
“Although, the more I think about it. With a guy averaging more than 2 strikeouts per inning, he must have some good “stuff.” Beyond his fastball, and erratic pitches. Just like a million pitchers out there, if he can throw strikes, he’ll be something special.”
Oh yeah, I’m sure he has good stuff. Seems to me that the best way to survive in a big league pen is to know where you are throwing the ball.
Look at Jose Veras. Very good arm. Tough breaking ball. But on any given pitch he could either miss by two feet, or blow the hitter away. That act wears thin pretty quickly.
You can’t ask a guy like that to pitch in high leverage situations. So you bring him into low leverage situations, and he starts walking guys… not good.
My hope with Dunn is tempered by the fact that his K totals might be skewed by his wildness. Hopefully he puts it all together in ST/AAA, though.
Doreen, I agree with you. It’s time to wave Duncan a fond adeau. I’m not sure who would be more useful in time….Curtis or Gardner. It’s the kids coming after Curtis that are the ones to watch. Besides shifting a Romine and Laird to the outfield, they have another power bat coming in Neill Medchill. They’re expecting huge things from Heathcoat, too. I’d love to see somebody get working with Melky Mesa. Enormous power and very good speed, along with being a very good outfielder in all three spots. Think of a young Alfonso Soriano with a glove and a bit less speed.
Erin-
If you are out there, I have good news and bad news.
The good news, I have purchased my new DVD-R/VCR and its up and running. (Who am I kidding when I said I would wait to set it up).
The bad news, my VHS of “Don’t Eat the Pictures” is not where I thought it was. Which makes me wonder if it ever made the move with me 5 years ago. Don’t worry yet, a year after I moved out my sister packed up all of the stuff I left behind and removed any trace that I ever lived there. So all of that stuff is sitting in boxes in my basement. I will take on that project later this week……
GB7 -
I believe it was Chad who wrote a nice article on Shelley Duncan during this past season. It’s really unfortunate that he is stuck in AAAA limbo. Good work ethic, great teammate, very productive at the AAA level, but falls short. He seems to like being in the Yankees system. Perhaps there is another avenue for him to pursue?
I think Cano in the 2 hole is exactly what is needed if Damon leaves. He is going to get much better pitches with Tex and A-Rod behind You’ll also see his power numbers improve alot along with RISP. I think a player like him really would benefit alot from it.
Swisher is a bigger chance in the 2 hole. He would either blossom or just be what he is: lots of walks but very streaky. I think the higher upside is the vast potential of Cano.
I like having someone lower in the order you know will at least make the pitcher “work”, so it doesn’t provide them with a rest. Cano doesn’t work it, and won’t need to with the amount of fastballs he is going to see.
Adieu is goodbye in french!!
GB 7 – Once again, many thanks for the updates on the youngsters. I know that most of them won’t make the majors, but, it sure is fun to read and think about them. I think Pinstripes Plus might be a worthwhile investment. Something to keep me occupied till ST.
Yankee Trader
November 16th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Mark-
Totally agree on Damon. By the time Boras gets him his 3 years the Yankees will have found a replacement.
Matsui on the other hand is competing with the likes of Guerrero, Thome, Hinske, Giambi, Andruw Jones,Garret Anderson, Sheffield, Tatis, Stairs, Glaus, Giles, Kearns, etc.
Damon will not get three years for decent money. Who will pay him say $30mm over three years? This is not 2007 and remember Damon did not get what he and Boras wanted last time around. Boras is doing his dance as he should, trying to maximize Damon’s value. The Yanks are doing what they should by being very quiet about their plans and very cool.
I think the Yankees want to improve their defence in the outfield and would be open to Damon mostly DHing but able to play the field say 30% of the time so that others can DH. Matsui’s inability to play the field most likely precludes a return to the Yankees.
Yankee Trader I don’t think most of the names you listed are going to be considered by the Yankees as DH candidates. Do we really want Sheffield or Giambi back? Can either even hit in the AL east? Maybe Thome but then why not resign Matsui?
GB,
Are you still around?
A couple days ago I was just looking at some of the postings on here from the night before.
I was very surprised to see a posting with my name on it.
It said something about not trying to be a troll and then said you were insecure and a bully or something like that.
I wrote a message the next day letting folks know that it wasn’t me, but I not sure if you saw that message.
I like harass you sometimes
, but that message definitely was not from me.
Boy I miss Baseball as does my wife. How many days to pitchers ans catchers, Erica?
Thanks,
Comet
Joe from Long Island
November 16th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
GB 7 – Once again, many thanks for the updates on the youngsters. I know that most of them won’t make the majors, but, it sure is fun to read and think about them. I think Pinstripes Plus might be a worthwhile investment. Something to keep me occupied till ST.
===
Joe,
It is totally worth the investment, and there is a great forum within as well. I’m busy watching hockey, so don’t know what preceded your comment, but wanted to weigh in.
The Nardi Q&A is Part One of Five.
Erica – always OPPC
November 16th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Erin-
If you are out there, I have good news and bad news.
The good news, I have purchased my new DVD-R/VCR and its up and running. (Who am I kidding when I said I would wait to set it up).
The bad news, my VHS of “Don’t Eat the Pictures” is not where I thought it was. Which makes me wonder if it ever made the move with me 5 years ago. Don’t worry yet, a year after I moved out my sister packed up all of the stuff I left behind and removed any trace that I ever lived there. So all of that stuff is sitting in boxes in my basement. I will take on that project later this week……
*************************
Erica, no worries. I’m not in any hurry.
Glad to hear your DVD/VCR is working though!!
ray (sox fan)
November 16th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
GB,
Are you still around?
A couple days ago I was just looking at some of the postings on here from the night before.
I was very surprised to see a posting with my name on it.
====
Hey ray,
I don’t even know you and even I knew it wasn’t you.
I think people’s voices come through pretty clearly. Probably was the tool arguing with him who came in under another name, lol.
Doreen
November 16th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
GB7 -
I believe it was Chad who wrote a nice article on Shelley Duncan during this past season. It’s really unfortunate that he is stuck in AAAA limbo. Good work ethic, great teammate, very productive at the AAA level, but falls short. He seems to like being in the Yankees system. Perhaps there is another avenue for him to pursue?
————————————————————
Yeah, unless somebody picks him up on the minor league FA market or rule Five draft, he’ll stick around the system. He’s the type that will become a coach. His only problem is hitting curve balls.
Hey thanks bodhisattva.
gfd
November 16th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Adieu is goodbye in french!!
————————————————————
I don’t care if it’s German for STFU. When I want a French lesson, I’ll go to Paris. Everyone knew what I meant.
ray (sox fan)
November 16th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Hey thanks bodhisattva.
===
my pleasure, ray.
What helps me decide on Damon and Matsui is remembering how easy it is to score off Damon when on 3rd.Also,when playing in an NL park no Matsui in the line up,because he can’t play the field.Both will be missed,but next!!
Whats goin on here?
I am not sure when pitchers and catchers report. The day of the parade Joe Girardi teased it was 96 days until pitchers and catchers report. That was 11/6. So if I do my math right, then they report on February 10, 2010.
Assuming a 1pm report time…..
85 Days, 15 hours and 17 minutes until pitchers and catchers report!!!!
Aloha is hello and goodbye to Shane Victorino.
Don’t get angry with me,because you can’t spell,take yourself too serious and always need to be right on everything.
Joe from Long Island
November 16th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
GB 7 – Once again, many thanks for the updates on the youngsters. I know that most of them won’t make the majors, but, it sure is fun to read and think about them. I think Pinstripes Plus might be a worthwhile investment. Something to keep me occupied till ST.
————————————————————
My pleasure, Joe. Keeping up with the winter kids is really all there is to do, and I enjoy it. Keep an eye on that Trenton team. They should be loaded this year. Scranton will be in trouble, though. They do have some great young pitching…just no offense.
I keep thinking about signing up for Pinstripes Plus. Maybe Santa Claus will find a subscription with my name on it at the bottom of his bag. I know one thing, he won’t bring it to me for being a good kid, though.
For those who enjoy gossip:
http://perezhilton.com/2009-11.....on#respond
ray (sox fan)
November 16th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
GB,
Are you still around?
A couple days ago I was just looking at some of the postings on here from the night before.
I was very surprised to see a posting with my name on it.
It said something about not trying to be a troll and then said you were insecure and a bully or something like that.
I wrote a message the next day letting folks know that it wasn’t me, but I not sure if you saw that message.
I like harass you sometimes , but that message definitely was not from me.
————————————————————
Evening, Ray Hope Mrs. (sox fan) and all of the little (sox fan) kids are doing well. I read that and wasn’t sure that was you or not. Didn’t really stop to think about it, but, it was late, so I didn’t think the trolls would be up that late. Word has it that Yaz was picked up be the animal control people, but, they let him loose. They figured that he has enough things going against him.
Erica – always OPPC
November 16th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
I am not sure when pitchers and catchers report. The day of the parade Joe Girardi teased it was 96 days until pitchers and catchers report. That was 11/6. So if I do my math right, then they report on February 10, 2010.
Assuming a 1pm report time…..
85 Days, 15 hours and 17 minutes until pitchers and catchers report!!!!
————————————————————
Pitchers and catchers report around 13-15 February, Erica.
NYY626
November 16th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
For those who enjoy gossip:
http://perezhilton.com/2009-11…..on#respond
***************************
Thanks…I love this stuff!!
GB, I didn’t know Dunn was an OF – guess he couldn’t hit, lol. I really don’t know why he’s just going to develop control all of a sudden, but I hope he does. If we can get Romine (unless Montero really can’t be a catcher) and Laird to be OFs, we’ll be in good shape. Is there any way to tell if a bat projects to the big leagues?
I knew that wasn’t Ray……..but GB is old, and he fell for it.
Bodh, thanks for the tip – I do subscribe on-line to PP, so I’m going to check out that interview now.
Good stuff from Nardi – he sounds pretty confident that Melancon will succeed eventually in the majors. He also seems to live Ivan Nova (I’m not familiar with him) and Romulo Sanchez( from the Pirates? I don’t know when they obtained this guy). It sounds like he thinks Dunn has to go back to being the pitcher he was at low 90’s instead of the thrower he is now throwing high 90’s…..
GreenBeret7
November 16th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
gfd
November 16th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Adieu is goodbye in french!!
————————————————————
I don’t care if it’s German for STFU. When I want a French lesson, I’ll go to Paris. Everyone knew what I meant.
——————-
At least you semi-admitted you were wrong for once as opposed to your constant Bill James UZR rants
You got it, Bets.
Enjoy.
Guins win!!!!!!
Betsy, Dunn wasn’t much of a hitter. NYY has converted a few outfielders to pitchers. We’ll just have to see what happens with Dunn and Wilkin DeLaRosa (another converted outfielder). Back in the 50s, NYY converted a young outfielder to the mound and he helped them win 2 AL titles and a WS (Tom Sturdivant).
I can’t believe it. GB was speaking French again, and I missed it. Sacrebleu!
GB, the conversion process fascinates me……I mean, a guy might have a great throwing arm as an OF, but it must take an awful lot of work to teach him how to pitch. It can’t hurt, right?
Bodh, I needed that reminder about Pinstripes as I don’t visit there as often as I used to. I guess the farm systems will be evaluated soon and I’m curious as to where the Yanks will rank. Knowing Manuel and his ilk, we’ll be mid-pack and the Sox will be in the top 5.
lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins)
November 16th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
GreenBeret7
November 16th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
gfd
November 16th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Adieu is goodbye in french!!
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I don’t care if it’s German for STFU. When I want a French lesson, I’ll go to Paris. Everyone knew what I meant.
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At least you semi-admitted you were wrong for once as opposed to your constant Bill James UZR rants
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You have faith in bogus numbers that says that Nick Swisher was a better right fielder than Michael Cuddyer or Alex Rios this year?
DT – OPPC member
November 16th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
I can’t believe it. GB was speaking French again, and I missed it. Sacrebleu!
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Does speaking drive you crazy, too, Tish?
Betsy,
I wouldn’t take any of that stuff to heart.
For instance, one of the dudes at fangraphs did an analysis of Andrew Brackman – based on ONE live outing he saw.
Also, these players are always under construction, they’re not a finished product. That’s why I tend to focus on perceptible talent rather than get bent out of shape regarding any particular stage of development.
A lot of these evaluators feel pressure to make some ultimate statement about these guys – tricky territory, since they’re in a chronic state of becoming.
PSP helps me follow updates on players I can’t get to see in person.
Does 2007 not count because Alex was technically a free agent even though he won it as a Yankee or is the writer just wrong?
“If any Yankee wins a major award, he will become the first since Alex Rodriguez took home the MVP in 2005. The last Yankees player to win the Cy Young was Roger Clemens in 2001.”
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....p;c_id=nyy
A report from Fox Sports is saying that the front runners for pursuing Matt Holliday are the Yankees, Red Sox, and the Angels.
I’m sure if the Sox sign Bay will influence whether they aggressively pursue Holliday.
How many years do you all think Holliday is looking for and how much per year will it take to sign him?
I don’t think the Yankees are serious about Holliday.
You have faith in bogus numbers that says that Nick Swisher was a better right fielder than Michael Cuddyer or Alex Rios this year?
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I do not understand how you could call them bogus numbers. Defense statistics have not reached the level of offensive statistics yet, but UZR is clearly the most reliable defensive statistic.
On to your point. You constantly bring up terrible comparisons to try to invalidate UZR and you always fail. Michael Cuddyer was notoriously bad in the OF this year and has never been a good OF. As to Alex Rios, UZR is better taken as a 2-3 year sample, but if the numbers say he did not get the balls he was supposed to get to this year then he was a poor OF THIS year. Johnny Damon was a very good LF in 2007 and 2008. Not so much this year though. It happens. Skills diminish and there is no reason to think that it is far fetched for Rios to be poor defensively this season.
Finally, with Nick Swisher. Let me guess: Your eyes tell you his is not a good RF. A few bad plays stand out in your mind and you automatically say the guy is bad in the OF. That is the only way to explain it, because throughout his entire career Nick Swisher has been a solid OF in left, right, or center. The perception that Nick Swisher is not a good OF is ridiculous.
You stick with the “eye test” and I will accept advances in technology. I am pretty sure every intelligent person in a baseball front office no longer relies on such a biased and unsupported test as the “eye test.” You probably think Jason Bay is a good LF because he did not make any errors this year.
Watching what players do doesn’t mean just looking at the numbers. Unfortunately, the same can’t be said for the URZ freaks.
I like the Robertson and Melky based rumors for Granderson. Not necessarily because its the best trade for the Yankees but rather because it is a great opportunity for all of the players involved. Robertson would probably get a chance to prove he can be a closer. Granderson will get to show that he can perform on the big stage and Melky might get a better chance to stick around as a starting ML outfielder, We sometimes forget these are real people being traded not jusr baseball cards. It is very nice when a trade can be arranged that is an real opportunity for all of the players involved.
I remember Cash saying that one of the main reasons he made the Sheff to Detroit trade was that it ws a good destinitation for him. This could be a similar arrangement between NY and Detroit. If they can agree on equal value to exchange.
Correction:
DT – OPPC member
November 16th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
I can’t believe it. GB was speaking French again, and I missed it. Sacrebleu!
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Does speaking ***French*** drive you crazy, too, Tish?
Observation is often skewed by small sample size and subjectivity. UZR can be flawed, but to dismiss it is anti-intellectualism.
I wouldn’t trade Robertson for Granderson.
Watching what players do doesn’t mean just looking at the numbers. Unfortunately, the same can’t be said for the URZ freaks.
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So you think that you can watch a baseball game and can better tell who is a good OF than an advanced statistical analysis?
Rich in NJ
November 16th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Observation is often skewed by small sample size and subjectivity. UZR can be flawed, but to dismiss it is anti-intellectualism.
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Exactly. I clearly said it is not perfect but it is the best we got. It is a hell of a lot better determination than you sitting in your living room
Congratulations Joe!!
“Joe Girardi will be honored as the March of Dimes Sportsman of the Year in two weeks, joining Sportswoman of the Year Venus Williams at the March of Dimes New York Division’s 26th Annual Sports Luncheon on Wednesday, December 2 at the Waldorf Astoria in Manhattan.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/blo.....march.html
Rich in NJ
November 16th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Observation is often skewed by small sample size and subjectivity. UZR can be flawed, but to dismiss it is anti-intellectualism.
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Would that make you an “intellectual” snob because that’s all you believe in?
You believe what you read in numbers, I’ll believe in what I see.
Rich in NJ
November 16th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
I wouldn’t trade Robertson for Granderson
I hope none of the managers you work for feel they should deny you an opportunity for advancement because of the same selfesh reasons you show when you say you want to keep Robertson. He can probably be a closer right now for Detroit. He will probably never get that opportunity as a Yankee.
lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins)
November 16th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
Rich in NJ
November 16th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Observation is often skewed by small sample size and subjectivity. UZR can be flawed, but to dismiss it is anti-intellectualism.
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Exactly. I clearly said it is not perfect but it is the best we got. It is a hell of a lot better determination than you sitting in your living room
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Theories and formulas can say that elephants can rap their tails around a dandelion and hang upside down over a cliff, but, I wouldn’t put any money on it.
GreenBeret7
Would that make you an “intellectual” snob because that’s all you believe in?
You believe what you read in numbers, I’ll believe in what I see.
__
No, I believe in observation, but not in a vacuum. I think observation used in conjunction with advanced metrics yields the most information.
Why would you ignore objective data?
rm
I hope none of the managers you work for feel they should deny you an opportunity for advancement because of the same selfesh reasons you show when you say you want to keep Robertson. He can probably be a closer right now for Detroit. He will probably never get that opportunity as a Yankee.
___
Extending your logic, then every player in any organization that isn’t being used in the role in which he would make the most money should be released or traded. That’s ridiculous.
Would that make you an “intellectual” snob because that’s all you believe in?
You believe what you read in numbers, I’ll believe in what I see.
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It would make him an intellectual snob if he came on here and said UZR is perfect. He and I have clearly admitted that UZR is not perfect. If anything it makes you a snob to say I am so much smarter than everybody else because I can judge players based on what I see.
If you are just going to believe in what you see then what is the point of statistics at all? Instead of AVG, OBP, OPS, SLG we will have the GreenBeret eye test where you tell us how players around the league stack up next season.
You have not once come on here and provided any intelligent counter-argument to the validity and usefulness of UZR. While, I doubt you have any real argument against it except for that is just not what I see (Nick Swisher can not possibly be a good OF because one time I saw him misplay a ball really poorly. Or Michael Cuddyer is a great OF because this one time I saw him make a diving catch) if you did have a valid argument or alternative test you would probably be working in the Yankees front office instead of posting on a Yankees blog.
Cashman: Yanks won’t dive right into free agent pool.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....-1.1592578
Theories and formulas can say that elephants can rap their tails around a dandelion and hang upside down over a cliff, but, I wouldn’t put any money on it.
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Funny stuff GB7, I’m with you.
Theories and formulas can say that elephants can rap their tails around a dandelion and hang upside down over a cliff, but, I wouldn’t put any money on it.
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Yes. You are right. We should invalidate statistics all together based on some outlandish claim that has no correlation to what we are talking about. Your logic is flawless. I sincerely you do not work in any logic related field like law.
GreenBeret7
Theories and formulas can say that elephants can rap their tails around a dandelion and hang upside down over a cliff, but, I wouldn’t put any money on it.
__
This rebuts what exactly?
Rich in NJ
November 16th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
GreenBeret7
Would that make you an “intellectual” snob because that’s all you believe in?
You believe what you read in numbers, I’ll believe in what I see.
__
No, I believe in observation, but not in a vacuum. I think observation used in conjunction with advanced metrics yields the most information.
Why would you ignore objective data?
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Objective to whom? Only the people that believe in numbers that any bookkeeper can juggle like a double set of books.
GB
Do you find some of these sayings in fortune cookies? If not, you should look into putting them into some.
Using any form of the word intellectual and GreenBeret7 in the same sentence is an insult to intellectuals everywhere.
GreenBeret7
Objective to whom? Only the people that believe in numbers that any bookkeeper can juggle like a double set of books.
__
Objective by definition. That is, the numbers are testable.
What you are missing is that if you compared defensive metrics on a game by game basis to observation, you would almost certainly discover that they dovetailed with observation over the course of a season.
Your analogies are colorful, but they are not fact-based.
GreenBeret7
December 21st, 2008 at 11:55 am
Montero has Manny Ramirez power. High, hard line drive in the gaps.
Hmmmmmmm… How did Beret quantify that???????? With his failing eyesight?????????
How hard does bailey throw?
pat
November 16th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
GB
Do you find some of these sayings in fortune cookies? If not, you should look into putting them into some.
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Nah…we used those back in WWI.
Bailey throws in the upper 90s and can hit 100 MPH.
bob
November 17th, 2009 at 12:05 am
How hard does bailey throw?
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Well I watched him this one time on TV and his arm was moving really fast. Oh and the ball. Man that was moving soooo fast. It was like out of his hand and at the plate in a split second. And the batter, I forgot who his name is just completely swung threw it. He just took a really bad swing because he was just so late on that fastball. Based on that he definitely throws 99 MPH all the time.
Courtesy of the “eye test”
“Bailey throws in the upper 90s and can hit 100 MPH.”
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His best pitch is his fastball, which has been clocked as high as 96. It generally sits at 92-94.
Andrew Bailey
RHP
Age: 25
43 GP, 4-3, 2.02 ERA, 0.98 WHIP, 66 K, 22 BB, 11 SV in 58.0 IP
Scouting report: 93-95 MPH 4-seam fastball, curveball, cutter, changeup
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The eyes of Beret are once again better than statistics. There is an accurate answer for you, bob.
He throws his changeup in the upper 90s and can hit 100 MPH.
So, I was wrong. Just going by what was being flashed on the Fox network from the bay area during games.
What are you going to do if you forget one of your 10 SNs? Make up another new one? Typical hit and run troll crap.
GreenBeret7
November 17th, 2009 at 12:22 am
He throws his changeup in the upper 90s and can hit 100 MPH.
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I figured a jerk like you would resort to this crap…IDIOT.
GB7 – the real one.
I just don’t understand the either/or mentality of those who are averse to statistics. They make watching the game more fun, not less. And I say that as someone who is not particularly good at math anymore.
You’re eyes can be very deceptive. I remember in the WS Raul Ibanez made a sliding catch and Buck and McCarver went nuts over how great a play it was. However, it you look at that play from an advanced metric standpoint almost every LF in baseball makes that play standing up. To millions of viewers at home Ibanez looks like a great LF making a spectacular play. Yet, intelligent people who analyze the game by more than just what they see what really happened
The worst offenders of over relying on what they see are Sterling and Waldman. To them, Miguel Cairo is a great player.
Your first mistake was listening to Buck and McCarver in the first place.
The whole point is that it is just the height of arrogance to purport to know more and have a better test than the hundreds of people employed in MLB front offices who heavily rely on these advanced metrics. Again, if you had a better test I am pretty sure you would not be posting on a Yankees blog.
It only makes matters worse when instead of actually saying something intelligent to back up your claims so maybe we can actually have an actual discussion as to the merits of your argument you just call people stupid and mindless sheep.
Sure. Blame it on the Fox network from the bay area during games. Excuses, excuses. Typical of a know-it-all.
lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) — Why have an actual discussion when you can just be lazy and call people stupid and mindless sheep?
I wonder what Tampa Bay will want in exchange for Carl Crawford this winter ????? I mean there;s zero chance they’ll sign him for a 5 year 75 million contract there about……Now he’d look good hitting 2nd behind Derek…..Nobody is relly talking about this, but come the Winter Meetings in Indy in 3 weeks, he’ll be big news
PAT M, if NYY ever got Crawford in a trade, I’d preferr seeing him hitting in the #1 slot. Jeter’s more likely to let him have a chance at running, but, either way, that would be a #1-4 start to a game. Toss in Matsui, Posada, Cano, Swisher and Cabrera and that’s a deadly lineup.
One other player I’d like for NYY to acquire is Ryan Doumit. Let him catch and play a corner outfield spot/DH. Another switch hitting catcher in the line-up would be a killer.
GB, I’m certain Pitt. is taking offers for him….Getting him and letting Molina go would upset a certain segment of LoHuders as you very well know…..He’d be a real nice pickup…..
Pat M.
November 17th, 2009 at 1:16 am
GB, I’m certain Pitt. is taking offers for him….Getting him and letting Molina go would upset a certain segment of LoHuders as you very well know…..He’d be a real nice pickup…..
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Defensively, as a catcher, Doumit’s at least what Posada was 5 years ago….solid power bat and a pretty good defensive right fielder. The fact that he can do both is what I like and the defense doesn’t suffer from what it is now…at either position. That’s what I’m hoping NYY does with Romine. What a bonus it would be to carry three catchers that could hit. I can never pitchure Posada DHing. in 400 at bats as a DH and catcher, he’s hitting under .230 with little power or run production.
Have you been tracking Brandon Laird’s games in the AFL? I know that it’s a hitter’s league, but, he’s outhitting a lot of the top players from other organizations. Curtis is out of his mind, too, but, still can’t picture him as more than a #4 outfielder….Melky Cabrera type at best.
I can never ***picture*** Posada DHing
I like the Robertson and Melky based rumors for Granderson
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um, where did you hear this ‘rumor’ ?
i would rather keep David Robertson
“vinny-b (lock up Girardi”
Micro-managing is not a crime.
Can UCLA get this done???????
Pathetic imposters!
Good riddance to them.
Ok is it just me or is Chad really pumped about the rookie of the year business after his own September call up?
rm
I hope none of the managers you work for feel they should deny you an opportunity for advancement because of the same selfesh reasons you show when you say you want to keep Robertson. He can probably be a closer right now for Detroit. He will probably never get that opportunity as a Yankee.
___
Extending your logic, then every player in any organization that isn’t being used in the role in which he would make the most money should be released or traded. That’s ridiculous
No. Players who can fill a larger role in a different organization should be more value there than they are in your organization. This could be the basis of a good trade for both sides. Also you should always treat your employees with respect and look after their best interests when you can.
The Rays are not trading Crawford to the Yankees, even if they do put him on the block – no way, no how.
All this talk about the fielding metrics makes me wonder why the Yankees or any other team send out scouts to actually watch their own team and the opposition. Seems to me, by the arguments going on here by the proponents of these statistics, you eyes are wrong and you can’t possibly understand how good or bad a fielder the players are without the stats (which are compiled by people watching games and coming up with their stats based on observation).
Stupid of the Yankees to waste resources on scouts. They can just go to the various web sites and get all they need from the stats.
I’m not saying we need Lackey.
But to me the biggest need is filling out our starting rotation. Andy is another year older. and Joba plus Hughes are question marks. Landing a Ben Sheets ,or Bedard, backed up by Ian Kennedy isn’t the worse idea
This morning Mike and Mike were talking about an article in which Scott Boras spoke about what many of us have been screaming about. Owners taking revenue sharing money and rather than putting it back into their team, pocketing the money (or as Boras is accusing them, paying down their debts). I really wish others would pick up on this. How long have we been talking about it here? Finally someone is talking about it!
Thats why Jen.. there should be a salary Ceiling . not a Salary cap. in my honest opinion . and it may sound harsh. But if a team can’t spend. they shouldn’t exist.
Mike Point is they have the money to spend. According to Boras, say they get 80 million in revenue sharing. And say they have 70 million in salaries. They are already ‘making’ money before they even sell one ticket!
I agree, teams that can’t spend shouldn’t exist. This is a capitalistic society. We aren’t supposed to prop up corporations that aren’t making money.
Mike- There should also be a floor.
The Marlins $36,814,000. I’m quite sure they received well more than 37 M in revenue sharing. Where did the rest go. And to top it off they getting a publicly funded stadium. While the Yankees for the most part paid for their stadium. Yes they got tax free bonds, but they are paying for it.
Betsy
Mike Dunn is a lefty reliever that sits 95-97 and has topped out at 99. can you think of any other LHRP that throws that hard? there is most definitely a lot there! all that is left is to improve the control.
We currently have Coke and Marte but Dunn will be protected on the 40 man and may even start the season as the closer at SWB sharing duties with Whelan but the Yanks are definitely high on that kind of impact arm from the leftside coming out of the pen