A new national Holliday
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Nov 17, 2009 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Speculation about Matt Holliday will percolate right up until he actually signs with a team and so far – as is often the case with Scott Boras clients – the big-spending clubs like the Yankees and Red Sox have been linked to the outfielder. The Angels are in that category too, though GM Tony Reagins told the Los Angeles Times that the team’s “focus is not on” Holliday.
As for the Yankees, I know the the buzz will persist for as long as Holliday is available – and rightfully so, especially after the lay-in-the-weeds approach that Brian Cashman took with Mark Teixeira last winter. I just don’t see it going anywhere.
The team’s internal planning is still going on, but at this point it’s hard for me to imagine the Yankees doing yet another massive contract only one year after committing so much to CC/AJ/Tex. More importantly (because who are we kidding, they certainly could spend more money) I’m not nearly as sold on Holliday as I was on Teixeira. With Teixeira, I was convinced he was that kind of “special” player – with Holliday, I’ve yet to see enough to make me think that. If I were betting, I think the Yankees make more of an impact on the trade market than the free agent market this winter.
One thing I know for sure is this: The Yankees-are-talking-Holliday chatter isn’t going away anytime soon.
Sam. I wish it was more Halladay talk than Holliday talk.
My dream scenario would be Bay going to the West Coast, Holliday signing with a NL team (Mets?), and the Red Sox trading their top prospects for Adrian Gonzalez (forcing VMart to be a full time catcher).
That would leave them with the same offense as last year, and the inability to trade for an ace pitcher like Halladay or Felix.
randy l.
November 17th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
nick in sf and jerkface-
you can try to rewrite history and not mention how wang was created, but the way it happened is the way it happened.
if wang is going to get the nasty sinker back , he’s going to have to go back to what he did in the first place.
————————————————————
I wonder if a one week class with Allen or Mel Stottlemyre would do the trick? They had two of the best that I ever saw. I know that they’re coaching in other places, but, coaches love to coach and teach.
My dream scenario would be Bay going to the West Coast, Holliday signing with a NL team (Mets?), and the Red Sox trading their top prospects for Adrian Gonzalez (forcing VMart to be a full time catcher)
———————————-
would rather the Red Sox sign Bay. As he may be the next Nancy Drew
At any reasonable rate (relatively speaking, of course), Yankees should make a Holliday push.
I think Wang just needs to be completely healthy and get back in a groove. I think this can be accomplished with the Yankees. They’re not chumps, even if it does seem like the Yankees are a ‘cutter’ organization and not a sinker one like STL
Matt Holliday is an All-Star quality ballplayer….Mark Texeria is playing in the Bronx and then it’s up to Cooperstown……
Yea I’m not as sold on him as Tex and he’s probably not quite as good a player as Teixera but heres the thing, he’s not going to cost as much either.
This guy is a very good player, is relatively young, and plays a position the Yankees need. I really don’t understand why so many people are against signing him.
Average per 162 games : 109 runs, 295 hits, 43 doubles, 29 HR’s, 112 RBI, 15 SB, .318 average.
.322 average in 86 games of interleague play when he was with Colorado (for those who think his time in Oakland means he couldn’t hit in the AL)
Mike RI
November 17th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
Sam. I wish it was more Halladay talk than Holliday talk.
———————
I agree.
gb7-
allen’s sinker was an occasional pitch for him. in his prime he had a 95 mph fastball and one of the best 12/6 curves in the game.
as a closer, he primarily used just those two pitches. i caught him through two years of rehab and i didn’t know he had a sinker. i asked him two springs ago how he knew the sinker to teach it to wang and he told me he used it when he started for a third pitch.
as a starter for billy martin and pinella, allen was part of a very savvy pitching group- guidry, rhigetti, tommy john, phil neikro, etc. eiland even came into that group as a rookie . don cooper , the white sox pitching coach was a bit pitcher too. neil and he are also good friends.
one of the things that people outside baseball don’t get is the fraternity and connection that players and coaches have that are separate from team loyalties. these friendships often override team loyalties which are really there only as long as a team is paying a player or coach. a lot of info is passed on through these connections.
i once watched richard dotson try to teach neil the circle change that dotson threw. he couldn’t do it. a big part of being a pitching coach is being able to see ahead of time what can be passed on. some things can and some things can’t.
what allen saw was that wang had the perfect natural arm slot for the sinker. he was right. it was an instant success.
i have no doubt that if wang was physically strong and in pitching shape that a month with allen would get him back on track.
but wang is a really strange case. you’d think he could remember what allen told him and wouldn’t need constant tune ups, but for some reason he does.
PAT M, what’s your thought of bringing Wang back and breaking him in as a reliever until Hughes/Chamberlain reaches his innings limit? Increasing his innings as they go through the season would have both he and Hughes/Chamberlain fresh for the final push. Having Wang as an effective setup guy would be perfect. He hardly walks anyone and the balls stay in the yard.
Halladay will cost prospects then lots of money. Holliday will just cost money.
$15 million is not cheap.
The Boston media has Adrian Gonzalez practically being fitted for a Red Sox uniform. Clay Bucholz has some potential, no doubt. But they are crazy if they think he’s good enough to be the centerpiece of a deal for Adrian Gonzalez.
Bucholz has a career 12-14 record, a career ERA of 4.91, pitches to a WHIP just under 1.5 and he’s pitched more than 7 innings only 3 times in his career. Can you imagine Hoyer selling that to Padre ticketholders?
If Hoyer’s first big move as a GM was to trade one of the most desirable players in baseball he wouldnt be looking for less than a front line position player PLUS a Clay Bucholz and a Daniel Bard.
“They’re not chumps, even if it does seem like the Yankees are a ‘cutter’ organization and not a sinker one like STL”
jerkface-
how is it that the yankees are a cutter organization and the cardinals are a sinker one ? that’s an interesting distinction if it’s true. i really don’t pay much attention to the cardinals.
GreenBeret7
I don’t Wang will be Yankee next season. I know it sounds awful. I just think he missed the boat. The Yanks won the world series without him and i’m sure they’ll add some new blood by the start of next season.
I know he pitched some great 19 win seasons. But you can’t overlook how awful he pitched last season. He had like a 20 something ERA. plus the injury doesn’t help either.
I just don’t see how he comes back. It hurts me to say that
Troy
November 17th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
“At any reasonable rate (relatively speaking, of course), Yankees should make a Holliday push.”
______________________________________________________
With Scott Boras as Holliday’s agent I think one can assume that the phrase “reasonable rate” will not apply no matter what team ends up signing Holliday.
GB, I cannot see the Yanks breaking camp next Spring with both Hughes & Chamberlain in the starting rotation……As for Wang, I cannot imagine the Yanks not resigning him…..The issue will be his arm speed after he regains strength in the shoulder….The other issue is his core strength, which is what lead us to this situation……I think he’ll come around and should be an effective MLB pitcher sometime in July…..Besides I think the club owes him that much…..The ramifications are huge, just as they are for re-signing the sweet swinging Matsui….
Thanks for the info on the Wang/Allen pairing, Randy. Allen’s flown under the public eye for years. I’ll ask you the same thing that I asked PAT about putting Wang in the bullpen when he returns and lengthening his innings there as time goes by to strengthen his arm/legs.
NY Chapter BBWAA Awards for 2009
Here is the rundown of the awards, which will be presented during the 87th annual dinner — which is open to the ticket-buying public — on Jan. 23 at the New York Hilton:
Babe Ruth Postseason MVP — Alex Rodriguez.
Sid Mercer/Dick Young Player of the Year — Joe Mauer.
Joan Payson (charitable work) — Carlos Beltran.
Ben Epstein/Dan Castellano Good Guy — Jeff Francoeur.
William J. Slocum/Jack Lang Long and Meritorious Service — Don Zimmer.
Casey Stengel You Could Look It Up — Rocky Colavito.
Willie, Mickey and The Duke — Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera, Andy Pettitte.
Joe DiMaggio Toast of the Town — Derek Jeter.
Milton Richman You Gotta Have Heart — Aaron Boone.
^ forgot citation…..from NY Post
Randy, Isn’t part of the problem with Wang being his stride being longer? Wang’s arm slot is natural for the sinker, but his stride had to be shortened up from his natural stride. It could be that this is where the conflicts come in and requires regular re-adjustments to his pitching.
This past season was particularly difficult for him. His leg lift prior to pitching wasn’t as high, his arm slot was off. I think his leg kick was a result of trying to compensate for his injury and lack of trust in pushing off his foot. Also the conditioning wasn’t there and while there had been improvement toward his later pitching outing, he was not throwing the same way.
We saw similar things with Hughes after his hamstring/ankle injuries. It took a year before he was back to where he had been.
Going to a different sport, its one of the things I think that is wrong with Eli Manning and to a lesser degree Tom Brady. Even Payton had lingering problems throwing after his injury. The fear of being injured again can be some of the cause, some being fully recovered, some conditioning problems.
Angel, thanks for the updates. That’s great news about GF. And very sad news about murphydog. Maybe something changed with the prognosis. I can hope.
Thanks, PAT. I still like Wang as a rotation pitcher, but, he hasn’t pitched in almost two years for the most part. He’d be an entirely different look, for sure. Whether he returns to his previous 2.5 years is unknown. There’s just too much arm to give away for nothing. At worst, he’s the 2005 version of himself, but, still better than Mitre and Gaudin.
is crawford a free agent? I remembering people takling about him earlier. I would take him over Holliday anyday.
LF: Crawford
CF: Melky/Gardner until AJAX
RF: Swisher
got speed in the outfield and power in the infield.
Crawford
Jeter
Tex
Arod
Cano
Posada
Matsui (BRING HIM BACK PLZZZZ)
Swisher
Melky/Gardner/Ajax
just a wrecking crew right there
how is it that the yankees are a cutter organization and the cardinals are a sinker one ? that’s an interesting distinction if it’s true. i really don’t pay much attention to the cardinals.
–
STL pitching coaches from the majors to the minors preach pitching to contact and getting easy groundballs. Dave Duncan ‘fixes’ pitchers, usually by forcing them to throw more sinkers/2seamers.
Joel Pineiro is one of those cases where he ended up throwing like 70% sinkers after arriving in STL.
It works for some people but not for others. Anthony Reyes was a flame thrower that Duncan tried to force a sinker on and it broke him.
Same thing with a guy like Wainwright, but luckily they let him pitch up in the zone with his heat to make his curve more effective.
Its also how they had Braden Looper go from being a middling reliever to a decent starter.
Yankees are a curveball/cutter organization. Nardi has most young pitchers scrap sliders to learn curves unless their slider is beastly.
Wang was also pitching at 94-95 in his last outings. He had the velocity back to normal, unfortunately I think his shoulder was damaged by the earlier outings when he was a mess mechanically.
MATC, Crawford had his option picked up by the Rays. Its the last year on his current deal and the talk has been about him signing an extension this off season, or if the Rays might look to trade him if they fall out of contention early enough to deal him before the trade deadline. There is also some speculation that Crawford might be traded this off season due to the Rays not being able to sign him to an extension, but it seems more unlikely due to both Crawford and the Rays seeming to want to stay together.
gb7-
once wang is healthy and throwing 95, i don’t know why he wouldn’t be of some value in the bullpen, but it doesn’t seem to me to be the optimal use for him. but no one planned on hughes being so valuable in the bullpen so you never know.
Randy, wouldn’t Wang be best served by building up again to pitch a lot of innings? That might mean working out of the pen to limit his workload, even though he is probably more effective as a starter.
With close two years where he didn’t pitch many innings, it would seem that he wouldn’t be ready to throw 200 or so innings.
MATC,
Crawford isn’t a free agent until the end of next season.
Of course if Tampa feels like they will be unable to extend his contract they may trade him before the end of the season to get something in return for him.
Yankees beat writer Bryan Hoch is participating in Yankee fantasy camp. Fun read.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy
Re: Wang as set up guy
This is just my opinion… it’s free and worth what you paid for it ; )
A strikeout, swing-and-miss stuff is what you want in a set-up guy. Few HRs and BBs, true, but even a healthy Wang will put guys on base giving up grounders through the infield. A starter can work around a bad inning, but a set-up guy can’t afford that luxury.
That’s not to mention the fact that he’s coming off surgery and there’s no guarantee whether he’s got anything left. Shoulder surgery isn’t “Tommy John,” the results are erratic and unpredictable. Unfortunately, the shoulder isn’t the only “if” here. Wang’s last two seasons are like a long Lost Weekend. Still, I’d take a flyer on Wang and try to keep him in the organization somehow, to see if he could get back to being a starter after the surgery.
IMO, there are minor league innings in Wang’s future if he wants a shot at coming back to the rotation – I wouldn’t route him through the bullpen. If he’s non-tendered, maybe that’s the start of his road back. Not sure another team would be as willing/able as the Yanks to take a chance on re-building Wang. Not sure he’d be rotation ready before September 2010 if he ever gets there.
randy l.
November 17th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
gb7-
once wang is healthy and throwing 95, i don’t know why he wouldn’t be of some value in the bullpen, but it doesn’t seem to me to be the optimal use for him. but no one planned on hughes being so valuable in the bullpen so you never know.
————————————————————
Of course, all would depend on when he returns and how effective, but, putting him in games for an inning, then ywo innings, etc., to coincide with the reduction of innings of Hughes/Chamberlain. If these 3 plus Kennedy can return to their expectations, that leaves a lot of options incase of a disasterous injury to a position player happens. I feel that NYY needs to invest a couple of million in Wang just to have that one year safety net. All one needs to do is look back at 2008 and 2004 to see what can happen to a supposedly strong and deep rotation.
would rather the Red Sox sign Bay. As he may be the next Nancy Drew
====
Lol. In his dreams, however. Drew is a much better fielder – like night and day better.
Murph…..How you doing ????
murphydog
November 17th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Re: Wang as set up guy
This is just my opinion… it’s free and worth what you paid for it ; )
A strikeout, swing-and-miss stuff is what you want in a set-up guy. Few HRs and BBs, true, but even a healthy Wang will put guys on base giving up grounders through the infield. A starter can work around a bad inning, but a set-up guy can’t afford that luxury.
————————————————————
I was looking more at the 6th and 7th innings more than the 8th. Even the Aceves role of long man, to build innings. One thing about the hits, and those are more often than not, ground singles. This isn’t the same infield defense he had the last time he was healthy.
You make a solid point, though. I just wanted to defend myself against the slings and arrows of outrageous postings.
Wang will be pitching for the Mets and JOBA wil be gone in a massive upgrade for an establihed outfielder. I think his market value is high and they do not care for his off- season conditioning. The Yankees will utilize their trade options rather then entertain a relatively weak free agent class.
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
November 17th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
would rather the Red Sox sign Bay. As he may be the next Nancy Drew
====
Lol. In his dreams, however. Drew is a much better fielder – like night and day better.
————————————————————
Like Nancy Drew and Drew Barrymore different?
GreenBeret7
November 17th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
November 17th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
would rather the Red Sox sign Bay. As he may be the next Nancy Drew
====
Lol. In his dreams, however. Drew is a much better fielder – like night and day better.
————————————————————
Like Nancy Drew and Drew Barrymore different?
==========
Lol. More like Drew Barrymore and Lionel Barrymore attacking-a-piece-of-Shakespearean-text different…
Pat M, thank for those sober and non-agenda-driven thoughts on Chien-ming Wang.
While I CAN imagine him not returning, I think that would be a dark chapter in modern Yankee history. I am more inclined to believe that they’re work something out with him, as you know.
I wish commenter miggs would show up soon, I want $25 from him too.
” Isn’t part of the problem with Wang being his stride being longer?”
Abdababdaserser-
allen told me that shortening wang’s stride was the key mechanical thing he did with him wheh taught him the sinker and that wang can’t feel it when his stride gets long again which is why he needs the frequent tune ups.
wang can probably throw a few mphs faster with the longer stride so it’s easy to see why he’d go back to it when he’s not feeling well physically. the problem is more mph but less sink.
one possible rehab technique that the yankees could try is to have wang go back to the long stride and throwing the four seam fastball 95-96. this was where he was at when he was converted in a week or so to a sinker ball pitcher. why not use this as a training technique before even having him try to throw the sinker ?
maybe wang needs to go back to the long stride to build strength and velocity and then shorten the stride for the sinker. this may be a perpetual back and forth process that wang needs to go through to keep the nasty sinker tuned up.
No Matt Holliday ever.
Please check out his career home/away splits.
Outside of (primarily) Coors Field he’s hard to tell apart from Xavier Nady.
Direct Link
I think Chamberlain and Hughes as your 4th and 5th starters are fine. Joba through 110 ip had a 3.58 era. He really struggled in august and september when they started skipping and shortening his starts. People dont have much patience with young pitchers I guess. Look at the struggles Halladay and Cliff Lee had in the beginning of there careers.
As a starter Joba has a 4.18 era in 221 ip. Those are really good numbers for a 24 year old inexperienced pitcher pitching in the al east.
GB7:
No slings and arrows from this direction my friend. Carry on.
Pat M.
Thanks for asking. Getting on with life of course but I miss the old dog a lot, her food and water bowls are still out. (I can’t get myself to put them away just yet). A neighbor was firm about telling me that Murphy wouldn’t want me to be alone. My wife thought that an odd comment, but I know what the neighbor meant. We’ll see how it feels after pitchers and catchers report – maybe a new pup for the Spring? We’ll see.
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
November 17th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
GreenBeret7
November 17th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
November 17th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
would rather the Red Sox sign Bay. As he may be the next Nancy Drew
====
Lol. In his dreams, however. Drew is a much better fielder – like night and day better.
————————————————————
Like Nancy Drew and Drew Barrymore different?
==========
Lol. More like Drew Barrymore and Lionel Barrymore attacking-a-piece-of-Shakespearean-text different…
————————————————————
The thought of a 70 year old Drew Barrymore playing the female version of crusty old Dr. Gillespe is not appealing. Thanks for making me lose my dinner. My diet doesn’t start until tomorrow.
A friend of mine has a philosophy on long term contracts. His thing is to ask “Is this guy going to the Hall of Fame”? If the answer is no, he is against signing anyone to anything longer than 3 years. We did this test with Matt Holliday and decided to pass on him. I hope the Yankees do the same.
“STL pitching coaches from the majors to the minors preach pitching to contact and getting easy groundballs. Dave Duncan ‘fixes’ pitchers, usually by forcing them to throw more sinkers/2seamers.”
jerkface-
interesting. it makes sense to me.
it’s possible that wang is just simply in the wrong organization for what he throws which is what i’ve come to believe. i really mean it when i say i think it would be better for both him and the yankees to part ways. they just don’t seem to be made for each other anymore.
you would think that the cardinals would be very interested in wang if the yankees cut him loose.
murphydog
November 17th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
GB7:
No slings and arrows from this direction my friend. Carry on.
Pat M.
Thanks for asking. Getting on with life of course but I miss the old dog a lot, her food and water bowls are still out. (I can’t get myself to put them away just yet). A neighbor was firm about telling me that Murphy wouldn’t want me to be alone. My wife thought that an odd comment, but I know what the neighbor meant. We’ll see how it feels after pitchers and catchers report – maybe a new pup for the Spring? We’ll see.
————————————————————
Women just don’t understand the attachment that men form with their dogs, or old cars, jeans, underwear socks or old girlfriends.
Uhhhh….scratch that last one. I think that’s the reason I have so many ex-wives.
“Women just don’t understand the attachment that men form with their dogs, or old cars, jeans, underwear socks or old girlfriends.
Uhhhh….scratch that last one. I think that’s the reason I have so many ex-wives.”
GB7:
In my experience, it’s not the old girlfriends that do you in, it’s the NEW girlfriends.
From RAB:
The Yankees already have $92.912 million committed to their 2013 roster. That does not include Derek Jeter, whose contract is up after next season and who will presumably sign a new, lucrative deal that will cover 2013. Adding Holliday (and Jeter) would put the 2013 figure close to $130 million.
Last year the Yankees took advantage of a robust free agent market. They had the money, and the players were right. Neither is true this year. The Yankees have some money coming off the books, but they also have holes to fill. While it’s nice to think of Holliday roaming left field in 2010, it means he’d also play there in 2013 and beyond. That doesn’t appear to interest the Yankees this off-season.
————————
You can not just think about one year at a time. Just because you have money coming off the books does not mean you have to immediately fill that void. You eliminate all flexibility you have in the future
Hang tough Murph, although it’s hard….I went through this in 06 & again in 07….Take your time and you’ll know when……Randy I, Your dead on I think with getting Wang back….That is a very sound program…..
“No Matt Holliday ever”????
Holliday has a career OPS+ of 133. That number is ADJUSTED for park factors and it places him in a tie for #20 among active players. By comparison, Teixeira’s career OPS+ is 136; ARod’s is 147. He’s a really, really good hitter, and he’s an excellent glove as well. If the Yankees get him, I won’t be shedding any tears.
Your friend’s theory is good “in theory” but the fact is that it would be hard to even fill out a quality major league roster with players on less than 3 year deals. HOF players are very rare. Teixera has a long ways to go before he’s considered a hall of famer, would he have passed on him? Damon, Matsui, Burnett were all working on deals longer than 3 years last year. They aren’t HOF’ers. You’re whole team can’t be HOF type players and you can’t build a team if you have a revolving door of players every year.
Matt Holliday is a good/very good player, but he’s not worth the $$ or years the Yanks would have to commit to him. They’ve already got a number of long-term, big ticket contracts to deal with – why add another. Whether or not they sign Damon for this year, they need to have a plan for LF in the near future (and for DH). I trust that this is the case. Given the incredible infield, the OF just has to be good – we don’t need any superstars in the OF. Maybe a trade or two (something Cash is good at)……and crossing of the fingers that AJax is ready to contribute in another year or so.
murphydog, my condolences. I think your instict to wait a couple months whichever way you go is the correct one.
it’s really tough at the end, but the memories of a good dog never leave you.
murphydog
November 17th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
“Women just don’t understand the attachment that men form with their dogs, or old cars, jeans, underwear socks or old girlfriends.
Uhhhh….scratch that last one. I think that’s the reason I have so many ex-wives.”
GB7:
In my experience, it’s not the old girlfriends that do you in, it’s the NEW girlfriends.
————————————————————
I didn’t even bother with new ones. I had enough trouble remembering the names that I knew. Biggest mistake was calling my wife by my ex-s name. I turned into a regular Gene Astaire or Fred Kelly really fast.
As an alternative to Wang, who I would like the Yanks to re sign. What about an incentive laden contract to Kelvim Escobar?
I’d rather see a national Halladay than a national Holliday.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy
I’m not sure why people keep saying that Holliday isn’t worth the years or dollars when we don’t even know what the market is for him yet. I agree that you don’t give him a deal anywhere near Teixera’s but if we’re talking 5 years, 100 million or so then I certainly think he’s worth that.
I’d rather see Felix Navidad than either one.
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....on-course/
“I’m not nearly as sold on Holliday as I was on Teixeira. With Teixeira, I was convinced he was that kind of “special” player – with Holliday, I’ve yet to see enough to make me think that.”
- Boy Sam, you are a true genius. What an amazing post full of so much valuable information. Remind me to check the blog when Chad gets back from vacation.
BTW, when my neighbor said I should get a new dog because Murphy wouldn’t want me to be alone, my wife wasn’t confused about the neighbor suggesting I get a new dog. It was the suggestion from the female neighbor that without a dog I was “alone” that seemed to be the problem.
I’m pretty sure the neighbor didn’t mean it as a dig at my Mrs. but my wife’s inner latina leapt into action and for the next 15 minutes in the car on the way to the supermarket she was steamed. I was treated to a monologue ranging from “What the @#$% was that supposed to mean?” to “Maybe if she wasn’t so old she could have her own man” and “She could have just said she was sorry about the dog.”
My reply? “Yes, dear.”
Blake, Aside from some unforseen career injury, Mark Texeria will be a switch hitting Multi-Gold Glove 1st baseman with over 500 home runs……Now Blake, how many of them currently reside in the HOF ????
Thanks, Nick in SF.
As you can see from the anecdote above regarding my lovely wife and the neighbor lady, even in sorrow there is gonna be some funny stuff.
The thought of a 70 year old Drew Barrymore playing the female version of crusty old Dr. Gillespe is not appealing. Thanks for making me lose my dinner. My diet doesn’t start until tomorrow.
====
How about running naked in the storm scene in Lear, making her appeal to the Gods:
“I am a man more sinned against than sinning…”
murphydog
November 17th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
BTW, when my neighbor said I should get a new dog because Murphy wouldn’t want me to be alone, my wife wasn’t confused about the neighbor suggesting I get a new dog. It was the suggestion from the female neighbor that without a dog I was “alone” that seemed to be the problem.
I’m pretty sure the neighbor didn’t mean it as a dig at my Mrs. but my wife’s inner latina leapt into action and for the next 15 minutes in the car on the way to the supermarket she was steamed. I was treated to a monologue ranging from “What the @#$% was that supposed to mean?” to “Maybe if she wasn’t so old she could have her own man” and “She could have just said she was sorry about the dog.”
My reply? “Yes, dear.”
————————————————————
You must have graduated at the top of your class, Murph. It takes an intelligent man to respond with such a fast and probably, life saving answer. Well done.
November 17th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
Blake, Aside from some unforseen career injury, Mark Texeria will be a switch hitting Multi-Gold Glove 1st baseman with over 500 home runs……Now Blake, how many of them currently reside in the HOF ????
———————————————
Eddie Murray
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
November 17th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
The thought of a 70 year old Drew Barrymore playing the female version of crusty old Dr. Gillespe is not appealing. Thanks for making me lose my dinner. My diet doesn’t start until tomorrow.
====
How about running naked in the storm scene in Lear, making her appeal to the Gods:
“I am a man more sinned against than sinning…”
————————————————————
Just like before….as long as she isn’t 70 years old, I won’t condemn her.
god listening to steve summers with radu on the phone is like going to the dentist. complaining about yankees’ payroll EVERY DAY
Buddy, Thank You as you made my point……Murph, The Yes Dear response is simply the best way to achieve a long lasting sense of domestic tranquility…….After my first whiff at marriage, I learned real fast….It’s better to give in marriage than to have it taken away in divorce….
“Women just don’t understand the attachment that men form with their dogs, or old cars, jeans, underwear socks or old girlfriends.”
What are “underwear socks”?
“My reply? “Yes, dear.””
Your puppy had one smart owner.
Lack of rants and the amount of gratitude a piece of cheese can generate are 2 of the things I’m thankful for from (wo)man’s best friend.
Take your time getting a new puppy. You’ll know when you’re ready.
Nick, it seems we are in agreement about Wang. Pat M. speaks of ramifications and leaves it at that. Maybe I will too.
“Blake, Aside from some unforseen career injury, Mark Texeria will be a switch hitting Multi-Gold Glove 1st baseman with over 500 home runs……Now Blake, how many of them currently reside in the HOF ????”
The better question is, how many aren’t in the hall of fame. People don’t really think of Teixeira as a hall of famer, but he’s definitely on his way. Great defense, top talent offensive player, consistently healthy, and finishing his career with 10 years on the Yankees can’t hurt either.
*8 years on the Yankees
Mark Teixeira is sitting at 242 Home Runs (After 7 seasons). If he keeps up his production he will reach 500 Home Runs. He needs that number because of the amount of superior first basemen currently in the Majors: Pujols, Morneau, Gonzalez, Youkilis, Howard, Fielder, and Cabrera to name a few. Pujols is a lock for Cooperstown, and Fielder and Howard look pretty good as well (Although it is early).
Youkilis< Teixera
TW, I would still appreciate your insights and any Taiwan gossip you can pass on — at your leisure, of course.
From Tainan to Keelung, from Haulien to Alishan, from Kentin to little Lishan, people are talking — but what are they saying???
I’d rather have Bay over Holliday but I’d ideally wait till next year and sign Carl Crawford.
Teix definitely better than youkilis and to say Howard is a HOFer is an interesting Q. He isn’t nearly as young as people think plus the atrocious batting average. He is 30 this year so give him 7 years maybe? We will just need to see….
I NEVER said Yuk is superior to Tex (I just mentioned outstanding first basemen CURRENTLY playing, and pointed out the 3 others (Pujols, Howard, and Fielder), that may be Cooperstown-bound. Yuk is NOT on that list). One major factor in Tex’s favor is the team he plays for: If he gets a couple of more rings in the next seven years, it certainly helps his chances to being eventually elected.
When you judge someone for the Hall Of Fame, one standard is how do you measure up to your contemporaries? Winning multiple rings is something that would set him apart from Howard, and (In particular), Fielder (Because he has not one yet.
If people look at the last 4 years of Ryan Howard’s career, those are Hall Of Fame numbers: (Particularly the RBI Totals with 136 being the LOWEST). Another factor is the fact, he has gotten into shape, which should certainly help him play a couple of more years at a high level.
Does this mean he is a lock? Of course not (See Albert Belle), But if he keeps it up, he will end up in Cooperstown.
Mark Texeria will be a switch hitting Multi Gold Glove Award recipient with 500 hr’s, with several World Series Rings……Not only will the NY Yankees retire his # 25, the Hall Of Fame will be sending a Town Car to deliver him to Cooperstown…And he’ll join Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Alex Rodrigiez, Joe Torre, and maybe even Jorge Posada as HOF members wearing Yankee Pinstripes from this era……..
Why do people even bring up Carl Crawford like he will definitely be available? You cant assume that. Cashman’s job is to put the best team on the field NOW. It amazes me the amount of Yankee dreamers saying Crawford and Mauer will be Yankees in a year….You just can’t sit around and let your opponents get better and hope next years FA’s dont sign contract extensions.
Not Hall of Fame bound: any of the scrubs who were masquerading as UCLA basketball players last night vs. Cal State Fullerton.
And on that note, goodnight.
LOL, Nick. Gossip here? I think not.
Thanks for reminding me Nick in SF…..It’s going to be a rough season for my UCLA Bruins B-Ball team…..They make the NCAA 64 come March
BTW, when my neighbor said I should get a new dog because Murphy wouldn’t want me to be alone, my wife wasn’t confused about the neighbor suggesting I get a new dog. It was the suggestion from the female neighbor that without a dog I was “alone” that seemed to be the problem.
I’m pretty sure the neighbor didn’t mean it as a dig at my Mrs. but my wife’s inner latina leapt into action and for the next 15 minutes in the car on the way to the supermarket she was steamed. I was treated to a monologue ranging from “What the @#$% was that supposed to mean?” to “Maybe if she wasn’t so old she could have her own man” and “She could have just said she was sorry about the dog.”
My reply? “Yes, dear.
———————————————————
good to see you Murphy
i think if the yanks spend money on a big ticket free agent this winter it better be for a starting pitcher(john Lackey) and not matt holliday. Holliday is a very good hitter but we already have a great line up and an excess of outfielders, albeit that none of them are on the same level as Holliday, but they just helped us win the world series and we have austin jackson hopefully waiting in the wings. it would be a shame to not give him a chance given his high prospect status.
also, there are rumors around that boston, philly and the mets are interested in lackey and halladay. add either of those pitchers to those staffs and you get one of the top rotaions in the league. we all know pitching wins championships and adding lackey to our staff this year would go great lenghts to ensure another world series.
I never said teixera would never become a HOFer. I just said he wasn’t right now and he’s not. He probably is on pace to reach that level if he continues on for 6-8 years at his current production. Now there are a ton of variables they come in to play in that amount of time.
I was trying to make a point about something else, not start a debate on teixeras HOF status. Its too early in his Career for that
I totally agree with what Corey said. You can’t assume who will be available next year and I’d rather have holliday than Crawford anyway. Holliday is available now and he fills a need the Yankees have in LF. Unless the bidding gets outrageous (I can’t see that happeneing in this economy) holliday makes perfect sense for the Yankees.
As far as lackey goes. I think you get sheets much cheaper and for fewer years and IMO if sheets is healthy he’s better than lackey.
I think we should wait before we put Tex in Cooperstown, lol…..and I definitely do not think the Yankees will be retiring his #. He’s a very good player, he’s not great……As far as him earning several WS rings, well he’s got one. I’ll hold off on assuming he’s going to get several others
I’d love to see the Yanks add Sheets and hope he gets healthy. I also hope they can find a way to keep Wang in the fold with an incentive laden deal. If neither happens then some other starter needs to be added.
The Yanks don’t “need” Holliday or any other LF. He would be a plus, but at the likely cost I think those resources are better spent on starting pitching.
I still like the idea of pursuing Granderson as long as Joba, Hughes and Montero are not involved. That’s a lot less expensive than Holliday or Bay.
Anyone wanting the Red Sawx to get Gonzales is not thinking clearly. That guy can mash and he’s young.
The Yankees have already retired WAY too many numbers. If it was up to me they only retired numbers would be 3, 4, 5, 7, 8 and 16. Certain Hall of Famers/career Yankees.
Keep the plaques in monument parks as a solute to others, but retiring numbers should be much more special and rare.
I’m sure that will be blasphemy with some, but that’s show biz. FWIW I would never retire a manager’s number. The whole idea of managers having numbers is strange to me.
Hey !
Get your tickets here !
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....ce_20.html
I don’t care about the # of retired numbers (Jeter and Mo absolutely deserve theirs at the end of their careers), I just think Tex isn’t even close to that category. I love him, but he’s just not a great player…and certainly not even the legendary type player that would get his # retired. He may not even be a HOFer……….
FRONT PAGE OF ESPN!!!!
Salary Cap & Yankee Payroll
LOL
Joba and I agree: Andy needs to return next year
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....z0XCnhcAJg
I just think Tex isn’t even close to that category. I love him, but he’s just not a great player…and certainly not even the legendary type player that would get his # retired. He may not even be a HOFer
—————————————————
have to disagree. Tex is the best position player, from the time i’ve been a NYY fan (1998)
Yes aquiring granderson would probably be cheaper in dollars but it would cost you prospects and granderson is a less productive player and horrible against lefties.
Cashman has always chosen to sign the free agent instead of trading prospects away for players. Now if u can get granderson for spare parts then that’s a different story but why would the tigers make that deal?
“I still like the idea of pursuing Granderson as long as Joba, Hughes and Montero are not involved. That’s a lot less expensive than Holliday or Bay.”
I’d rather see the Yankees spend MONEY on players than spend PROSPECTS on players.
No long term high $$ deals this off season. The Yanks did that last year.
Bring Andy back for 1 last year at 10-12mil. Sign a couple of guys for depth and maybe take a chance on a rehab guy like Sheets or Wang.
Bring back either Damon for 2 years 18-20 total, OR Sui for 1 year 8-10.
Let the kids man the outfield along with Swish or make a trade for another.
I also think they should extend Jetes so it’s not a distraction during the 2010 season. If they can give a 36 year old catcher a deal they should probably give an 4 years contract to the greatest SS of all time…
“Cashman has always chosen to sign the free agent instead of trading prospects away for players. Now if u can get granderson for spare parts then that’s a different story but why would the tigers make that deal?”
Granderson is not a free agent nor will be anytime soon since he’s under contract for the next four years which is why Cashman might be interested in trading prospects for him.
“I’d rather see the Yankees spend MONEY on players than spend PROSPECTS on players.”
It depends on the player and his contract status.
Not to get all Old Testament on you so early in the morning, but a lot of people think Teix is The First Base Messiah, fulfilling the promise of the prophet Donny Baseball. (He will lead his team to the promised land and redeem all pinstripers).
I think part of the Teix issue is that many of us still pine for Donny Baseball. Many of us feel cheated in a way that Mattingly didn’t play longer. Some of us project onto Teix, either he’s “as good as” or “nowhere near” Donny. He’s neither in truth; he’s himself, a player with a lot of promise as a solid defender and slugger. Let’s give him some time to be amazing. Teix is here one year and has one ring. So far so good. Do I hear two?
Erin wrote: “Joba and I agree: Andy needs to return next year.”
Count me in.
Today , I guess is the orginizational / scouting meeting. Pretty exciting. Today we lay the foundation of what will happen in the coming weeks
“FRONT PAGE OF ESPN!!!!
Salary Cap & Yankee Payroll
LOL”
I didn’t read the article by Howard Bryant, but to be fair the following is the caption for that article:
“Did the Yankees buy a World Series celebration? Their $207 million payroll didn’t hurt, but in an offseason focused on money, cries for a salary cap are way off the mark.”
murphydog
Sorry to hear about Murphy. Glad to hear you are considering another pup. You will know when the time is right.
“I think part of the Teix issue is that many of us still pine for Donny Baseball. Many of us feel cheated in a way that Mattingly didn’t play longer. Some of us project onto Teix, either he’s “as good as” or “nowhere near” Donny. He’s neither in truth; he’s himself, a player with a lot of promise as a solid defender and slugger. Let’s give him some time to be amazing. Teix is here one year and has one ring. So far so good. Do I hear two?”
I think Teix and Donny Baseball are two different types of hitters. One was a high average hitter who can hit 30 homers when healthy while the other is more of the classic slugger that can hit around .300, but hit 40 homers. Even fielding-wise they’re a little different with the edge going towards Mattingly, but Teix is still a very effective fielding 1st baseman.
86W183…
The only plus I can think of for people wanting the RS to go after a trade for Gonzales is because it would thin out their farm system and add a problem to their pitching staff.
The RS would have to probably include Buchholz (which I don’t think is all that big a deal) and Bard to start things off. I really don’t see a deal coming up for them that they would like in order to get Gonzales. The Pads GM knows the farm hands and has probably read the reports on how the RS really feel about the players, he won’t jeopardize his own job to help out the Saux.
The Yankee farm system is getting a bit crowded right now with pitchers in particular that probably won’t be called to NY. Position players is another matter, but there are some players that they could consider moving. That is why a Granderson trade may not be such a bad move.
I liked watching Holliday play. He is one of those players who puts a lot into his game, and is willing to do a faceplant to help the team. He can hit well, he can field decently. He wouldn’t be a star player, but on the Yanks that is tough to be given all the good players they have.
I wouldn’t like giving him a lot of years, and it may be in his best interest to go with some lesser years and higher dollars given the economy. If the Yankees sign him I won’t complain. If they don’t sign him I might depending on who they do get to replace Damon or Matsui.
I still would prefer to see the Yankees get a deal with Damon – short term as well as Matsui. That helps with some flexibility for the team with possible FA coming up in the year or so, or for Jackson and others to have more time till they are thrown into the fray. (I don’t think they are quite ready for it yet.)
The Tigers might go for a trade with the Yankees for Granderson if they get decent prospects they could use or spin off to get other cheaper players. They can’t be scrubs though, they will have to have decent upside. I could see Melky going in a trade for Granderson along with pitching.
Blake
Evne when he’s healthy Sheets is never fully healthy. He’s the riskiest pitcher around not named Rich Harden. Last thing you want to do is fill out your rotation and count on him.
Doing so is like saying “I’d really like to see 15 starts from Chad Guadin, Sergio Mitre and Alfredo Aceves”
I’m not saying you place all your hopes and dreams on Ben sheets. You sign him to a short deal and take a risk. Many of his injuries have been non-arm related (not this past one). If he’s healthy he’s the best #4 in baseball by a mile and would place less pressure on Hughes and joba to hold down the back end.
I would rather take a flyer in sheets than committ longterm to lackey. especially with the 2011 FA pitcher class
Crawdaddy
November 18th, 2009 at 8:54 am
“FRONT PAGE OF ESPN!!!!
Salary Cap & Yankee Payroll
LOL”
I didn’t read the article by Howard Bryant, but to be fair the following is the caption for that article:
“Did the Yankees buy a World Series celebration? Their $207 million payroll didn’t hurt, but in an offseason focused on money, cries for a salary cap are way off the mark.”
=======================================
I read it – acutally an interesting article and shows how the the “buying a world series” perspective is flawed
Blake
If he’s not healthy – then what? This is the problem. Some guys are injury prone, even if it’s not their arm/shoulder. Sheets is one of them.
Even if he makes 20 starts – by no means a guarantee – some number of those will be pitching through injury or returning from injury.
Like I said – committing to having Sheets in your rotation for even one year is the same thing as saying “I want 15 starts from the Chad Gaudins, Sergio Mitre’s, Sidney Ponson’s and Jeff Karstens of the world.
I’d rather take a slightly less talented pitcher with a better health history than play russian roulette with a potential stud.
That’s your opinion and that’s fine. I think with sheets the reward outweighs the risk if were talking a one or two year deal. If he gets hurt then you still have gaudin mitre etc to back him up. But if he stays on the mound he’s super talentd and throws tons of strikes. I don’t think were talking about a huge committment here
I agree. Sheets could end up being the steal of the FA market if the Yanks can get him on a reasonable deal.
Sheets won’t be much of a “steal” because all the teams will have the meds to know that he’s 100% healthy before making an offer to him. If the med reports come back clean theni think the market for Sheets will be surprisingly robust-as i think it should be- and a few teams may offer 2yrs with an option which we don’t need to do.
I think Cash’s strategy regarding the staff is very simple
A- the $240mil investment he made last offseason in CC and AJ is the foundation obviously for the ’10 staff and i would expect improvement in both guys next season
B-resign Andy to a 1 yr 10-12mil base with incentives taking him up to 14-15mil if reached(# of starts/innings pitched)
C-Joba is the #4 starter no innings restrictions or pitch count restrictions with the goal being 34 starts/200innings and growth in consistency and maturity as a starter from him. As he was doing well before the innings limit phase of the Joba rules kicked in in aug(3.58era second best on the staff) i think they should be confident that he’s ready to take that next step as a starter, irreegardless of what “experts” and dereanged “put him in the bullpen” so fans think,and give them 190-200 quality innings
D-turn Hughes loose as the 5th starter and looke to cap him at about 170 innings. I for one think he will be fine and actually handle the “rules” better than Joba did.
E- resign Wang to a lower base/incentive deal and rebuild him so to speak while bringing back Gaudin/Mitre to have as insurance along with guys like IPK,McCallister,Nova and Sanchez continuing to develop down in SWB
F-sign Aroldis Chapman and continue with the strategy of stockpiling high ceiling arms
G- and being in a position depending on the success of this plan to if need be take advantage of a much stronger 2010 FA stock of frontline starters or a more realistically available King Felix
this is the same strategy he employed in ’08 with Johan and it worked just as he drew it up culminating in our 27th championship this season and he has absolutely no reason to deviate from it this season
Why is signing Sheets risky? It’s like signing Jon Leiber. Low risk, huge potential reward. You don’t count on him for 34 starts, but you put yourself in position to have an incredible talent if he makes it back.
The key is how much guaranteed money will he insist on.
I feel the same way about trying to work something out with Wang
I largely agree with Champ809 except I think Chapman will turn out to be a huge waste of money