Today’s award: AL Cy Young
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- November
- 17
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The official announcement of today’s winner will be at 2 p.m. Until then, here are my thoughts and predictions. Feel free to chime in with your own.
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American League Cy Young
The favorite: Zack Greinke (Royals)
The contender: Felix Hernandez (Mariners)
The dark horses: Justin Verlander (Tigers), Roy Halladay (Blue Jays)
The Yankee with a chance: CC Sabathia (and, if Sabathia does, so too should Mariano Rivera)
Morning analysis: Greinke was ridiculous this season and his 2.16 ERA – in the AL! – will likely be the determining factor in the race against King Felix (2.49 ERA). After all, it’s hard to go wrong with picking the guy who allows the fewest runs per nine innings, right? Oh, and for those who have a problem with Greinke only having 16 wins, consider that those are 16 of the 65 total wins the Royals had – in other words, Greinke won nearly a quarter of his team’s games this season. Not bad.
The pick: It’s gotta be Greinke.
The record: 1-for-2 (hit on Coghlan; missed on Bailey)
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on Tuesday, November 17th, 2009 at 8:49 am by Sam Borden.
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Chad Jennings
Sam -
Can’t argue with that!
I think that if CC had gotten 20 wins he would have been the favorite, but I have to go with Grienke also.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....fYLVAiTltL
Why are the Yankees moving so slow to do anything. One would think getting contracts done for the coaches would be easy. Are there any managerial openings? Do any of them have a shot at it.
Stupid of the Yankees to waste resources on scouts. They can just go to the various web sites and get all they need from the stats
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good point. In essence this is the way nom@@s and other Bill James people think
Information on websites often comes from said scouts. And I would trust a professional with years experience and a track record for a scouting report more than some guy with a blog.
Why are the Yankees moving so slow to do anything. One would think getting contracts done for the coaches would be easy. Are there any managerial openings?
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a manager coming off a World Series Championship shouldn’t be a lame duck manager. This is the type of thing which p*sses me off about the yankees. And Andy Pettitte being lowballed last winter, is another
jennifer-I saw that article this morning too. I can’t imagine they would let any of the coaches go.
Maybe I’m behind on this, but has Pettitte filed for free agency yet? I don’t remember seeing his name on the list of the Yankees that had filed.
Information on websites often comes from said scouts. And I would trust a professional with years experience and a track record for a scouting report more than some guy with a blog
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I believe the person was making a joke. (at least i hope)
Vinny I agree, but on the list of things that need to be taken care of that is last on the list. I just don’t get why they are moving so slow on everything. Nov is already half over! I realize the WS ended not even two weeks ago. But to not make a move to resign your coaches. I don’t get it.
They don’t need to move quickly. Its not a question of lowballing people. They don’t have as many needs as last year.
As far as the coaches, that will probably get done within a few weeks. In most cases, (unless some are interviewing for positions elsewhere), that’s just a question of the GM getting his 2010 budget from his owner and doing the deals.
As far as player needs, its more prudent for the Yankees to take their time in this marketplace because most folks in baseball believe prices will go down and not up this winter.
Mainly because a lot of teams will be putting some of their arbitration eligible players on the trade market.
Anytime a market gets flooded with players, the prices for go down and not up.
The Yankees, being one of the few teams with money to spend, probably benefits the most by waiting out the market as long as they can.
As far as Girardi is concerned, I agree he shouldn’t be a lame duck guy this year. IMO, that’s bad business.
Even if they just extend him one year, and look to do a bigger deal in the off-season, its better than nothing.
Pettitte? I have a feeling Andy’s base is going to be at least 10 million this season. If it isn’t, he should retire.
Its one thing to sing for your supper for one year. When you do it, succeed, and be a good soldier about it, you shouldn’t have to do it again.
I suspect Andy and the Yankees will come to terms sometime in Mid-Late December.
sabathia has a better chance than halladay. i agree he would be 3 or 4 on the list behind grienke and king felix, but not because of anything other than their amazing seasons. greinke deserves better than KC.
The Yanks are probably not doing anything until their initial internal meetings are completed.
It seems pretty likely that Girardi will stay whether he gets a contract extension right now or not, and he’ll get the coaches he wants.
SJ- Did you hear about the interview Boras did regarding other teams spending, and using revnue sharing to pay down debts rather than invest it in free agents or farms.
Vinny i dont think the original plan was to lowball andy. didnt the yankees offer him 10 M, which he scoffed at? He was 14-14 in 08′ and looked like he was breaking down. I dont think the yankees expected how good he was this year, but he ended up with over 10 m in the end. If he comes back this year, it will be more like 10-12 m.
Jennifer,
That’s been a common complaint by the Yankees, and many agents, since revenue sharing began.
Its probably happening but, its difficult to prove without a forensic accounting of every team that receives revenue sharing money.
I suspect there are some owners who would shut down their teams before agreeing to such an accounting.
Its a big flaw in the system. A team like the Marlins for example, make over 15 million a year in profits and their payroll isn’t even 40 million.
With Dade County footing most of the tab for their new 600+ million dollar stadium, there is no incentive to dramatically increase payroll because it would affect profits.
Its why those who whine about the Yankees money have little to stand on. The Yankees play the game by the rules and its not their fault teams choose to pocket their revenue sharing money instead of pumping it back into their teams.
Greinke had a great year for a very bad Royals team. On the nights that he pitched, though, they were one of the best teams in the league. There was not a team in baseball that was the favorite to win against the Royals with Greinke pitching.
But, to me, this makes Steve Carlton’s 1972 season look that much greater. That team won 59 games total, Carlton won 27 of them by himself. He also allowed nearly 100 hits less than the number of IP. Greatest picthng season of all-time, IMO.
SJ- I think the problem is people don’t realize the amount of money teams get in revenue sharing and the fact that they pocket the money. They just hear the media cry poor for these teams, and assume they don’t have the profit to pay for free agents. Take when the Marlins traded Jermey, the media was running around saying how poor the Marlins are that they couldn’t afford to pay arbitration of a million to him.
SJ:
do you think NYY will get Curtis Granderson? And/or what is your opinion of him?
Think the Yanks will have any interest in Ben Sheets? He could slide right into the number 4 spot, not have the pressure of being an ace. Sign Cameron, Sheets and Chapman, and bring back Andy and Wang on a minor league deal.
It really is infuriating that the Marlins go into this offseason saying “We are going to reduce our payroll to $15 million”
Seriously? They were a contender to make the playoffs last year, they have a TON of young talent and they are extremely well run, from a baseball point of view. If they were to spend even $50 mil they could be a perennial playoff contender.
I understand the complaints about the Yanks spending so much money but I think spending so little as the Marlins is equally as bad or even worse than what the Yankees do.
Anyways, Sam, I agree with your Cy Young prediction. Anyone other than Greinke would be ludicrous, he was by far the best pitcher and one of the most valuable players in 2009. Honestly, he should have the CY in the bag and be contending for an MVP.
ESPN Rumor Central reporting that Yanks might be interested in Sheets. I don’t have “insider” so I don’t know what it says exactly.
C.C. and Mariano will get rings. They also hoisted the Championship Trophy, the ultimate in prizes.
No other Cy Young award winner can hold that claim.
Individual awards are incentive clauses in a player’s contract and won’t amount in money to what a winning World Series share will bring even to a member of the Yankee coaching staff.
if i had avote my CY list would be the following
Winner-King Felix consistently the best SP in the league most quality starts,best pitcher in the game last 4 1/2months of the season,faced the Yanks and RedSox and Greinke didn’t
Runner up- Zach Greinke best start to the season went through a 2 month lull and closed strong. Great season
3. CC- after a slow start performed up to expectations and led the best team in baseball,completely delivered in every way.
4. Halladay-typical Halladay stuff
And to continue my rant against low-payroll teams, look at the Cincinnati Reds. Their GM, Walt Jocketty is a very respected guy and has been in baseball for a long time but he’s embarrassing himself.
He whines nonstop about the high payroll of teams like the Yankees and now he wants a hard slotting system in the draft. Dude, the Reds suck because you make poor decisions, not because the Yankees spend more money. Who’s idea was it to pick Yonder Alonso ahead of Gordon Beckham? Who decided to give up 2 prospects and waste $10 million on Scott Rolen?
Run your team well, and if you still can’t win then we can talk about a hard slotting in the draft or a salary cap. Until then, stop whining.
By the way, those 2 examples about the Reds were shamelessly stolen from Keith Law’s chat last week.
I think the marlins should just contract their franchise. Clearly they dont care about winning and they have an owner who just collect steinbrenner’s money and pockets it.
Here’s a thought!!! Do not own a team if you arent at least willing to make a small effort to field a winner.
I would not mind them looking at Sheets, but it would have to be as luxury piece, not as a guy they need to be 100% for their plan to work. Kind of like Penny or Smoltz were for Boston last year, hopefully this one would actually work. But, the Yankees don’t seem to be too interested in these type of deals lately.
Chapman is a must sign if he wants to be a Yankee. But, with him as well, I think he would be a late season producer at best, if not 2011 or even 2012 to make an impact.
I want no part of Cameron whatsoever.
And i think Sheets may be worth a look. He had all last year to recover, might come cheap because of the injury, and adds to the depth. If he returns even close to form, he will be a good bottom rotation guy for us. Ask milwaukee what having CC and Sheets on the same team did for them.
The Yankee with a chance: CC Sabathia (and, if Sabathia does, so too should Mariano Rivera)
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I definetly think it’s going to Grienke, but like I did yesterday with Gardner, I’ll say
Go CC!
Go Mo!
The major awards, with the exception, of the NL Cy Young, are no brainers.
Greinke is, and should be, a lock for Cy Young. He was far and away the best pitcher in the AL this year.
Mauer is a no doubter for MVP, and Pujols the same in the NL.
Jeter will likely finish second to Mauer, and unlike the last time he finished second to a Twin in the balloting, the voting order will be correct.
I hope as analytical minds such as Keith Law and Rob Neyer become eligible for voting, we’ll see awards handed out not just for “most RBIs and most wins” – two metrics which are largely indicative of your team, and not the individual’s performance.
I’ve always liked Granderson as a player. He’s also a better person than he is a player and you can’t have enough of those guys on a team.
I think he could really flourish in NY.
Its a question of cost. I certainly wouldn’t give up Hughes, Chamberlain or Montero for him, that’s for sure. Everybody else though, I would listen and see if a deal could be struck.
When a team like Detroit is in heavy sell mode, you don’t have to empty your system to get players.
I would love to see the Yankees try and extend the deal to add Edwin Jackson to the mix. That would make me (if I was Cash) give up some talent because you would have 2, under 30 studs, whose contracts are very reasonable.
With all these trades though, the devil is always in the details.
Seattle wanted Austin Jackson at the deadline for Jarrod Washburn. Sometimes, teams get stupid when it comes to trade returns.
This is cool:
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/.....owcase-79/
Pujols the same in the NL.
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I dont think he is as clear a winner as people think. He really struggled in the last month and prince fielder really put a year together. I think fielder should get serious consideration in the NL MVP race.
Cashman has been smart, ESPECIALLY when it comes to trades. If he is going to trade for Halladay, Granderson, or anyone else, he will make sure we make the most of it.
By the way, those 2 examples about the Reds were shamelessly stolen from Keith Law’s chat last week
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good points.
also, the Cardinals won the world series in 2004. Why wasn’t Walt Jocketty asking for a revised system then?
also, the Cardinals won the world series in 2004. Why wasn’t Walt Jocketty asking for a revised system then?
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2005. Any Yankee fan would remember who won the series in 2004.
Patrick -
Here’s an even better one. The owner of the Brewers was blasting the Yankees because they signed CC and Tex and as a result Milwaukee ended up with a second round pick for Sabathia (he and Bob Melvin had counted on getting first round picks for CC and Sheets). Anyway, he started ranting about the need for a salary cap when, in reality, if there was a firm salary cap then the odds are the Indians would have never been looking to deal CC which means the Brewers couldn’t have gotten him and thus wouldn’t have gotten into the playoffs.
By and large, the owners who complain about the need for a salary cap do so after giving out a stupid contract (Colorado after the Hampton and Neagle signings; Drayton McLane after the Carlos Lee deal) it’s quite obvious that they want the league to prevent them from making bad decisions.
My (admittedly biased) case for Felix…
http://compassrosy.blogspot.co.....feilx.html
SJ,
Agreed with Granderson but I think his value goes way down due to the extreme splits. He really should be a platoon player going forward.
Disagree with Jackson. He had a great first half and a not so great 2nd half. Considering the rest of his career is more like his 2nd half and I really don’t think he’s more than a back of the rotation starter.
Additionally, Jackson’s peripheral stats do not look good, he is going to regress in a big way next year.
“With all these trades though, the devil is always in the details.
Seattle wanted Austin Jackson at the deadline for Jarrod Washburn. Sometimes, teams get stupid when it comes to trade returns”
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yes. It appears there would be competition for Granderson, with several teams reportedly interested.
was thinking something like: Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy (or Zach McCallister), and Bruney. Detroit does need relief pitching but would really like to see David Robertson kept out of any deal
Great example Chip
If a manager has the support of ownership, the front office and the clubhouse, which Girardi appears to, being a lame duck is meaningless.
Unless they fear Girardi finding a better job or being paid more somewhere else (both are unlikely to happen) what’s the benefit of locking him up a year early?
Champ, Scranton will lose a lot of games with Dunn as closer if he can’t get a handle on his control. It’s not as easy as wishing it to happen….It’s nice that he has a great arm, but if that’s all he has, it won’t lead to a succesful major league career. As Nardi said, he has to learn how to pitch, not throw.
Agreed 100% about the owners complaining. The owner of the Twins used to complain about the payrolls also. This was the owner who was worth over $2 Billion…
It should not be The Steinbrenners’ problem that other owners are so f-ing cheap that it makes people sick, while complaining about other teams spending. If they can’t handle it, SELL YOUR TEAM to someone who will.
Tom in N.J.
November 17th, 2009 at 9:51 am
This is cool:
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/…..owcase-79/
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That’s really cool. Good find!!
Unless they fear Girardi finding a better job or being paid more somewhere else (both are unlikely to happen) what’s the benefit of locking him up a year early?
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What job can be better than managing the Yankees???
I’m pretty sure the Yankees are not going to go into the 2010 season coachless……..not worried at all, about Joe or anyone else.
Granderson and Jackson are not studs. Not by a long shot.
Granderson can’t hit lefties, strikes out way too much and his fielding has regressed.
And Jackson has been bad much more than he’s been good.
Stark was on ESPN this morning talking about the low payroll teams. he said that every team in baseball gets 80+ million between TV, radio, internet, revenue sharing, etc… before they sell 1 ticket.
It’s a travesty that teams have 30 and 40 million payrolls.
Stark was on ESPN this morning talking about the low payroll teams. he said that every team in baseball gets 80+ million between TV, radio, internet, revenue sharing, etc… before they sell 1 ticket
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if that info is reliable – wow. That is a lot of bank
I wish that in addition to reporting the teams payrolls that they would also report the % of income for each team that is reinvested in baseball operations. I have to facts to back this up but I’m guessing the Yankees would be near the top in those percentages and spme of these complaining “small market teams” with billionaire owners would be shockingly low on the list.
Granderson, Edwin Jackson & resign Matsui and Cashman is done for the winter…The club is stronger going into 2010
Yep, I’ve heard Granderson is a wonderful guy, too. I hesitate to trade much for him as he appears to be a platoon player. In any case, we all know the drill. The Tigers will ask for Joba/Hughes/Montero or some other ridiculous package and then take much less from another team. We saw this at the trading deadline – teams do NOT want to help the Yankees, and now that they are coming off of a WS? LOL…..
The Yankees are just now having their meetings while other teams have already met, determined their needs and are probably ready to go. CG and others will already be gone by the time the Yankees get up to speed.
I’m not worried about Girardi’s status. Lame duck or not, it’s clear that Cash and Hal like him very much – he’s not going anywhere.
Sheets? The Yankees LOVED him last year, but not his medicals. I’ve no idea if they are exploring the possibility of signing him, but I would expect him to go to Texas for a multi-year deal. The Yankees sure aren’t going to give Sheets that kind of contract.
I just hope the team doesn’t wait forever with Damon and Matsui. I hope they make fair offers (though what is fair to Damon and Matsui is likely not fair to the team) and tell them they are take it or leave it offers. After all, the Yankees need to move on quickly if things can’t be worked out.
I account for guys improving in better environments.
That’s what just looking at stats can sometimes miss.
Granderson under Kevin Long will improve. Just about every hitter Kevin works with improves.
As far as Granderson’s bad numbers against lefties last year, the same comments were made about Paul O’Neill when he came to NY.
He improved (through better coaching) his approach to lefties and it changed the direction of his career. I believe the same thing can happen to Granderson.
Jackson? I think Eiland could help Jackson a lot.
Eiland helped turned CC’s season around by changing his grips on his two seam fastall and changeup.
Frankly, the Yankees have better coaches than the Tigers and I think both guys could benefit from better teaching.
If Edwin Jackson is here as the 4th starter (which is what he would be in NY), it makes it much easier to transition Hughes back into the rotation.
The best and mos hypocritical complaining will always be the Red Sox front office and their ’small market blues’ whining, especially last season when they complained about being unable to compete with the big bad yankees after losing Tex to New York. Despite the fact they offered a contract that was only off by 6 or 8 million that only a handful of clubs in baseball could dole out.
Cy Young prediction:
1. Grienke
2. King Felix
3. CC
4. Halladay
5. Mo
There are only a few owners in baseball that run their teams to win baseball games and not as a money making side project. Its no coincidence that those are the teams that consistently win.
“What job can be better than managing the Yankees???”
That was my point. There is no better job, money is not an issue and Girardi seems to have everyones support.
“Yep, I’ve heard Granderson is a wonderful guy, too. I hesitate to trade much for him as he appears to be a platoon player. In any case, we all know the drill. The Tigers will ask for Joba/Hughes/Montero or some other ridiculous package and then take much less from another team. We saw this at the trading deadline – teams do NOT want to help the Yankees”
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betsy: well said. This normally happens. However, Cashman and Dombrowski have made deals in the past. Maybe there is a possiblity…
I for one am comfident Cashman will make the right moves to win #28 (health permitting).
SJ44,
It’s certainly possible that Long and Eiland could help Granderson and Jackson become better players.
However, we can’t assume that will happen, it’s not a guarantee by any means. Right now their value is what it is and any trade that goes down should reflect that. What I mean is, I wouldn’t give up a boatload of prospects for them, assuming that they will become better in our system.
If we can get Jackson as a back of the rotation starter (as you point out, that’s where he’d be) then I’m all for it. But I don’t want to give up more than a back of the rotation starter is worth.
Similar with Granderson, if Cash only gives up what a very very good platoon player is worth I’m all for him coming to the Yanks. If he costs more, no thanks.
By the way, whoever said Granderson is regressing defensively is incorrect. He had a down year in 08 but he was better in 09.
I omitted the resigning of Andy Pettite…….Said this last week when the rumor was first floated about, that trading for Granderson reminded me of the Roberto Kelly / Paul O’Neill trade…..Curtis Granderson would blossom in the Yankee order and hitting in The Stadium…..Jackson is just on the brink for a breakout season and fullfilling his potential….
I think it is much more likely the Yankees get a fair deal in the off-season than they ever could at the trade deadline. Circumstances are usually quite different. A trade deadline deal is certainly one that is looked at as having an immediate impact to help a team clinch a division. An off-season deal, well, not such an immediate impact, and I think both sides end up making out better. I’ve read that Cashman and the Detroit GM have a good working relationship, so I wouldn’t think that it would be the same as trying to make a deal with the Rays (also makes a difference that the Tigers are not in the same division).
I would love a Granderson/Jackson package to the Yankees in a fair trade. Of all the names mentioned thus far, the ONLY one to pique my interest is Granderson.
Girardi won’t be a lame duck because he won the WS.
Torre was a lame duck because after 2004, and after the very slow starts in 2005, 2006 and 2007, his continued employment was a constant topic in the media. It was a major distraction because he lost to the Red Sox in 2004 in such a horrendous way and then failed to get out of the first round of the playoffs in the ensuing seasons. But I don’t think Torre lost his clubhouse, ever, so in that sense he was not the lame duck the media tried to make him out to be. He was, however, a decoy (target practice duck for the media).
Patrick,
I would trade Melky for Granderson in a heartbeat. If I had to add McAllister and Austin Jackson in the deal to get Edwin Jackson, I would do it.
I wouldn’t trade Hughes, Robertson, Chamberlain or Montero for either guy.
Melky, McAllister and Jackson are the level of talent I would offer for those guys.
Pat M,
Jackson.. you mean Edwin Jackson or Austin Jackson?
I hope you’re right about Granderson, I’ve always liked that guy. He’s a really exciting player if he can get back to how he played in 2007. Check out these numbers…
In 2007 he hit .302 with 38 doubles, 23 triples, 23 HR, 122 runs scored, 74 RBI, 26 stolen bases and only 1 CS. Not to mention he played amazing defense in CF that year.
One of the more athletic players in the league, for sure.
when is Greinke a free agent ?
SJ44,
I doubt they would take just Melky for Granderson. Even with the splits, Granderson is a far far superior player.
I agree, I wouldn’t give up Hughes, Robertson, Chamberlain or Montero. But my guess is that Dombrowski will demand one of the big players on the Yanks to get Granderson.
However, I’d probably trade Austin Jackson and Ian Kennedy or Zach McAllister to get Granderson and a few prospects back.
“However, I’d probably trade Austin Jackson and Ian Kennedy or Zach McAllister to get Granderson and a few prospects back.”
You’re not getting any good prospects with Granderson if you’re trading just Austin Jackson and one of those pitchers.
Regarding Yankee signings whether player or coaches, it appears that Cashman is waiting on the beancounters to give him the parameters of his 2010 budget.
Regarding Yankee signings whether player or coaches, it appears that Cashman is waiting on the beancounters to give him the parameters of his 2010 budget
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enter Randy Levine, aka Bozo the clown
“You’re not getting any good prospects with Granderson if you’re trading just Austin Jackson and one of those pitchers.”
Probably not, which is why I don’t think a deal will get done. I can’t justify giving up a lot for basically a platoon player.
I know there are a lot of people against this but if the Yankees let both Damon and matsui wall and signed holliday who on here would not be happy?
1. You get younger and better in LF
2. Holliday would likely be cheaper for 2010 than the damon/matsui combo
3. Its frees up the dh spot to allow the older players a day off from the field.
4. It avoids having to deal with this same situation again next year.
Melky, McAllister and Jackson are the level of talent I would offer for those guys
___
Melky AND jackson? i dont think so. what about our otfield? no way we want gardner out there everyday…
How many years is Holliday looking for? I think that’s the stinking point for a lot of people. I think perhaps the Yankees are thinking long range and if Holliday is not the best they can do going forward, why tie up an outfield spot with him? If next year’s free agent class is better, why waste it this year?
then yankees are not signing Holliday
vinny-b (lock up Girardi and let Jeter wait)
November 17th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Regarding Yankee signings whether player or coaches, it appears that Cashman is waiting on the beancounters to give him the parameters of his 2010 budget
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enter Randy Levine, aka Bozo the clown
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LOL
“Probably not, which is why I don’t think a deal will get done. I can’t justify giving up a lot for basically a platoon player.”
A platoon player that is going to get 600 at bats. Yes, we disagree again.
blake,
Those are good points and I think Yankee fans forget that Holliday is a pretty good option. However, I’m not sure the Yanks want to hand out another huge contract and I’m also not sure that Holliday is worth what he’ll get in the open market.
5 yrs, $100 mil – sure I’m all for that. Anything more and he can go play for the mets for all I care
Here’s the thing though. Next years FA class may be better overall but I would argue its not in LF. Crawford is only a year younger than holliday and his game depends much more on speed (which will stary to go somewhat over his next contract). Plus there is no guarantee that he will even be available next year. We haven’t heard any offers on holliday yet but if hed take a 5 year deal for around 100 million them I’d do it. He would be 35 at the end and by the time his production starts to slip the contract is over.
Patrick….Edwin Jackson is on the brink of fulfilling his enormous potential…..I watched him when he first came up with the Dodgers…..Vinny Scully indicated that he could be a very special pitcher…..Man Edwin Jackson in Pinstripes would make for a very nice Christmas
The biggest need for the Yanks is to bolster there Pitching Staff. Pettite is another year older, Joba and Hughes are question marks.
I’m not saying signing Lackey is the answer, but i do hope Cashman takes a look at Sheets and Bedard .
LF is not a concern for me. I’d be happy with Damon, Cameron, or Granderson.
Patrick. I think 5 yrs 100 million might just get it done in this economy. Especially of the sox re-sign bay.
3. Its frees up the dh spot to allow the older players a day off from the field.
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A rotating DH is not a smart idea. If one of your players gets hurt your DH rotation gets shot to hell and you essentially lose 2 positions due to 1 injury. You need a dedicated DH hitter or you need to have an equally good bench player that is the main sub in.
For example
No-DH
1. Cervelli/Pena/Gardner is in the field
2. Posada/A-rod/Damon is at DH
One of them goes down, Cervelli is now playing fulltime in the field and can no longer be included in the DH rotation.
your new rotation is Pena/Gardner + Cervelli
DH position
1. Cervelli/Pena/Gardner are the the bench
2. Posada/A-rod/Damon are guys you wanna rest
3. Matsui is your DH
Most lineups include Posada/A-rod/Damon + Matsui
Rest days take out matsui and include cervelli/pena/gardner, your team is worse but its not every day
Someone gets injured. If its Matsui, you are back at the original scenario, which is ok for a short period. If its A-rod/Posada/Damon, Cervelli et al get included in the lineup without much detriment because Matsui is still there
Everyone should think carefully about suggesting a rotating DH.
3. Its frees up the dh spot to allow the older players a day off from the field.
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OK once and for all the thinking above that the DH spot needs to be empty for the older players is as flawed a thought as can be..
1) Older players (jeter, arod, posada) aren’t going to be dh’ing more than twice a month, if that.
2) if you start dh’ing them more its takes them out of their rhythm as well as it puts a much worse player both in the field and at bat – example: arod is dh’ing today and jerry hairston (or worse yet Cody Ransom) is now a guy that plays 4 – 5 times a month at 3rd – instead of having a permanent DH (matsui for example) who is 10 times better offensively than hairston. Or even worse if you DH posada twice a week – you will see jose molina and his anemic bat 9-10 times out of 29 in the lineup every month…
3) you need a permananet DH who will give you 120 – 130 games (or more) at that position who is used to sitting on the bench and only getting up 5 times a game and hit the ball…did you see jeter getting all ansty on the bench the few times he dh’d this year?
A platoon player that is going to get 600 at bats. Yes, we disagree again.
–
Just because a team is dumb enough to give him 200 ABs vs left handers does not change the fact that he has a great platoon split.
Am I the only one around here that thinks the Yankees aren’t giving out 100M contracts this offseason?
“Just because a team is dumb enough to give him 200 ABs vs left handers does not change the fact that he has a great platoon split.”
The Yankees aren’t making this trade if they don’t think they can improve his splits.
I don’t think they’ll go with a rotating DH-that’s a really bad idea IMO
Crawdaddy
November 17th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Am I the only one around here that thinks the Yankees aren’t giving out 100M contracts this offseason?
***************
No you’re not.
Edwin Jackson is on the brink of fulfilling his enormous potential…..I watched him when he first came up with the Dodgers…..Vinny Scully indicated that he could be a very special pitcher
–
They’ve been saying this about Edwin forever. He did it for 2 months last season then went back to his old ways of not getting the most out of his talent. Just because Vin Scully, an announcer who never played baseball (which everyone seems to love to throw around as knowing jack all about anything) does not mean he is a talent scout.
Though I do not want to bash Vin, he is the best, I just think its silly to say that because he likes Edwin Jackson that it means Edwin Jackson is going to be awesome.
Edwin really needs to focus, because he is getting older and his great natural talent isnt going to be there forever.
Am I the only one around here that thinks the Yankees aren’t giving out 100M contracts this offseason?
- Crawdaddy .i dont’ think anyone is getting 100 million this year. I dont’ see the Yanks giving big time money to Bay or Holliday. They might,, might give some cash to Lackey if there that high on him.
crawdaddy -
Nope. You’re not the only one.
“A platoon player that is going to get 600 at bats. Yes, we disagree again. ”
It’s cool man..
He has played full-time in CF for the last 4 years but I think that will change going forward. He’s almost 29 and after this long in the league he still is dreadful against lefties. At some point the Tigers (or whatever team gets him) has to realize that he simply cannot hit lefties. I think going forward he’s a platoon player.
Would you really let him start games vs lefties when his career numbers are .210/.270/.344 ?
Pat M,
I think we are going to disagree about Edwin Jackson. He had a great first half but fell off after the ASB. For most of his career he’s been mediocre so a few months aren’t really going to convince me that he’s about to become amazing.
Also, look at his peripheral stats in 2009, they aren’t good. All statistical signs are pointing to a big regression in 2010. Additionally, the “Bill James” projection for 2010 has him at a 4.75 ERA. That projection system isn’t that great but it’s such a huge jump in ERA, it has some meaning.
VERY cool, Tom – thanks for sharing!
Craw -
Just because Jimmy Leyland didn’t platooon Granderson doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have.
I said nothing about a revolving DH. I was just argueing that bringing back a player solely as a DH with so many older players isn’t a good idea either. having a player who could play a position occasionally as the DH would be more preferab.e because them the posadas and jeters could occasionally (not all the time ) could DH. Posada already catches way more than he should and who knows maybe montero or romine will be ready by the second half.
If I didn’t know better I would think some of you on this board are Hal steinbrenners accountant. its kinds funny. Why do you care what they spend
I said nothing about a revolving DH. I was just argueing that bringing back a player solely as a DH with so many older players isn’t a good idea either. having a player who could play a position occasionally as the DH would be more preferab.e because them the posadas and jeters could occasionally (not all the time ) could DH. Posada already catches way more than he should and who knows maybe montero or romine will be ready by the second half.
If I didn’t know better I would think some of you on this board are Hal steinbrenners accountant. its kinds funny. Why do you care what they spend
Craw -
The Yankees aren’t making this trade if they don’t think they can improve his splits.
And the Mets traded Scott Kazmir to Tampa for Victor Zambrano because Peterson thought he could fix Victor.
The Yankees signed Farnsworth thinking they could make him more reliable.
I’m just saying – lots of bad deals have been made in the belief that one team can fix what another team couldn’t and I don’t think the Yankees will fall victim to that again.
Jerkface…The reason for the Scully reference goes to the man’s tenure in the game….He has seen the great ones, and he isn’t one to really just label them as being special just to satisfy his audiance…He also saod about 4 years ago that Jason Werth would round out as a above average player…….I watched Edwin during his short time in LA, and he caught my eye……His control is much better than what it was a few years ago, but he’s just a click away from hitting it big
“I would trade Melky for Granderson in a heartbeat.”
sj44-
i can see that in some ways, but on a side note , i really believe the yankees should have a yankee way like the old orioles had an oriole way.
say if melky and granderson were equal players overall where the all the differences came out equal, shouldn’t a player like melky who came up through the yankee system if he’s taught a certain kind of baseball be more valuable to the yankees than someone brought up in another organization with a different set of baseball principles?
if players are just baseball mercenaries and interchangeable it seems to me that a whole part of team building is not being utilized. i think the goal of a high quality organization should to develop it’s prospects so that they are more valuable to that team because of how all the parts fit together.
now if someone in another organization has the talent and abilities that make them a natural for a particular team even though that player didn’t develop in that organization then by all means bring them in, but if the yankees are serious about developing young players and having a home grown base that is constantly developing they need a yankee way.
i would start with things like jeter reinventing himself this year on defense, alex becoming more of a situational hitter, mariano passing down things to hughes. take the qualities that make the yankees the yankees and teach it throughout the system.
i really do see a lot of randomness with the yankees in their player development that leads me to believe that there is no written down yankee way at the moment. cynics would simple say the yankee way is $$$$ and to an extent it is. if they really want to be an elite organization they need to get past spending 430 million every time their plan doesn’t measure up the way it didn’t in 2008.
so bottom line is a player like melky should be more valuable because he’s grown up in the yankee crucible with all the pressure and all the stars.players don’t always come over and perform like the back of their baseball cards.
personally i’d stay with melky and if granderson is obtained , bump melky to a corner.
“If I didn’t know better I would think some of you on this board are Hal steinbrenners accountant. its kinds funny. Why do you care what they spend”
We care because we know the Yankees have a spending limit.
Also – I don’t know what the Yankees are spending this winter, but given that there is close to $40 mil off the payroll I wouldn’t be shocked if they spent up to 30 mil this winter.
(that’s 30 mil for this year, not the total value of the contracts that will be handed out – for example – 1 player at 19 mil a year for 6 years and another two players at 5 mil a year for two years = 29 mil this year…)
But I do believe that the desire to watch the bottom line a little is part of the reason neither Damon or Matsui will be offered arbitration.
“I’m just saying – lots of bad deals have been made in the belief that one team can fix what another team couldn’t and I don’t think the Yankees will fall victim to that again.”
No kidding Chip. Hey if you have a problem with obtaining Granderson then email Cashman about your concerns, maybe, he’ll listen to you.
yeah randy, but the thing is, Melky isn’t as good as Granderson.
Granderson, even with his awful splits, is MUCH better than Melky
why does anyone want Jason Bay? He hit 250 something, struck out MANY times, and like most people ont he sox, average was IMPROVED by playing at fenway (off the wall).
Yankees may gain some homeruns in our right field, but boston benefits MORE from the monstahhhhh.
So, look at Holliday if you must, but ABSOLUTELY NO JASON BAY PLEASE!!!
CC’s SI Sportsman of the year nomination:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
Tex:
Three reasons teams want Bay:
1. In Boston he showed he can play in pressure situations
2. Before he got hurt he carried that team early
3. Teams view him as a slightly less expensive alternative to Holliday.
Crawdaddy:
I’ll get right on that email to Brian. Thanks for the suggestion.
Jerkface…The reason for the Scully reference goes to the man’s tenure in the game….He has seen the great ones, and he isn’t one to really just label them as being special just to satisfy his audiance…He also saod about 4 years ago that Jason Werth would round out as a above average player……
–
Vin Scully also said Wilson Betemit would be a great player, he is a baseball announcer and sometimes he says things to set a mood or scene or build excitement. He has seen a lot of great players and teams, but so have many scouts and players always get projected or comped to certain guys. Rivera is the next micky mantle etc.
But when arguing about bringing in a guy that has trouble keeping his ERA below 5 it just doesn’t play.
Edwin Jackson has an incredible fastball and slider, but somehow barely strikes out 6 guys per 9 innings in his career. His HR/9 has been 1.1 the past 3 seasons. He has given up a lot of hits per inning. His WHIP was only ever below 1.5 last year. I live in Florida so I’ve seen him quite a bit in Tampa. Including games where he got lit up by the Kansas City Royals of all teams.
Despite giving up around the same amount of hits/percentage of line drives/groundballs/whatever his BABIP dropped 20 points. Could we expect something similiar out of him with a worse defense behind him if he came to the Yankees?
He is young enough that I’d take a flyer, but if Detroit is marketing him as an ace despite his lack of control/strike outs I’d pass.
Tex -
Also there’s a trade-off between Boston and NY. Damon’s HR totals went up playing in NY because he could pull the ball out in RF but his average went down because he couldn’t get as many cheap hits out to LF as he did in Fenway – that’s why I love baseball more than any other sport – it’s the only sport where the dimensions aren’t static no matter where you play.
Personally, if the Yankees are going to lose Damon, I would rather replace him with a double’s hitter who is a good situational hitter and may hit between 15-20 HR a year and bat him 2nd (who shall remain nameless because mentioning his name always gets me in trouble) rather than a Matt Holliday or Jason Bay.
I would love to see the Yankees try and extend the deal to add Edwin Jackson to the mix. That would make me (if I was Cash) give up some talent because you would have 2, under 30 studs, whose contracts are very reasonable
***********************************************************
outside of the first half of last year Edwin Jackson has been anthing but a stud in his career. he is young and maybe his game is finally coming together but the last two and half months of the season he reverted back to the + 5.00 era pitcher that he’s always been
Chip, that would be true if Bay was a lefty and if Bay’s average wasnt already down to .250.. And as a righty, he wont benefit as much from the short rf. I may be wrong, but isnt Bay more of a pull hitter anyway? I just think if it is coming down to Bay vs. Holliday, Holliday is the better bet even for a little more money.
(who shall remain nameless because mentioning his name always gets me in trouble) rather than a Matt Holliday or Jason Bay.
___
DeJesus ???
I know some of you aren’t thrilled about the idea of David DeJesus but how about this for a deal:
KC gets: Eduardo Nunez, Ian Kennedy, Brian Bruney, Brett Gardner, CM Wang’s arbitration rights.
Yankees get: David DeJesus and Gil Meche
That’s 2 years at 11 mil/year for Meche and 1 year 4.7 mil for DeJesus (with a 6 mil club option for 2011)
Edwin Jackson was traded straight up for Matt Joyce, a guy who hit .252/.339/.492 in Detroit and .188/.270/.500 in Tampa.
That is pretty much like trading him for Melky Cabrera straight up. Which I might consider doing.
Felix Hernandez is more deserving the of the CY Young award.
All you have to do is compare who they faced this season. Grienke was in the weakest division in the league, maybe the 2nd weakest in baseball. Grienke never faced the World Championship Yankees. We never had a chance to put a couple runs on that ERA.
Grienke faced 7 .500 or above teams this year for a total of 20 games out of 33 games.
The King faced 10 .500 or above teams this year for a total of 24 games out of 34 games.
I know people are all goo-goo over that ERA but the CY Young has traditionally been about Wins. If you take into account the competition the two faced, that difference in era isn’t as impressive for Grienke.
From Sporting News: Scioscia guarantees Angels will beat Yankees next season
http://www.sportingnews.com/ml.....ext-season
Right now, Melky is our best outfielder. no way they trade him straight up for potential in a back end pitcher.
did you see jeter getting all ansty on the bench the few times he dh’d this year?
____________________________________________________________
I think Michael Kay might have mentioned this a few (re: a thousand) times.
I know I am alone on this, but here goes
Let Damon and Matsui walk
Sign Andy
Sign Holliday
Trade for Granderson
Sign Sheet and Bedard
LETS ROLL
I’d try to make them take Melky Cabrera in that situation.
Here’s the problem with Melky – he’s entering his arbitration years and he’s going to start making a lot more money than he’s worth production wise.
Melky’s a good player so long as he’s making a million bucks at most – but you start paying him 1.5, 2…and up and all of a sudden the fact that he’s a .270 hitter with a .330 OBP and 10 HR power isn’t enough to justify the money. Which also means his trade value drops off significantly – if the Yankees are going to ever get value for Melky they need to trade him this winter (perhaps to Colorado as part of a deal for Brad Hawpe….)
and the fact that Melky is the Yankess best defensive outfielder says more about the Yankees’ need to improve their outfield defense than it does about Melky’s skill.
Here’s what Scioscia said, courtesy of the Orange County Register: “I don’t care if the Yankees go out and spend $350 million next year, we’re going to beat them because we have the team.”
__
I respoect people being confident in their team, but ask Jimmy Rollins how ridiculous guarantees worked out against the yankees.
Just dumb. they dont have THE TEAM. right now, they dont even have Vlad, Lackey or Figgins.
Why Bedard?
___
He is such a health risk. Worse than Sheets or Burnett. I agree that Sheets may be worth a few mil if you can get him on a 1 year deal and a guarantee he is ready to start the season.
Yes they have a spending limit but as I said holliday would most Likely be cheaper than the matsui/Damon combo for the 2010 season. I think we become so caught up in trying to devise trade scenerios that we ignore what’s right in front of us. Holliday is the best position player on the market and he happens to play a position the Yankees need and he’s relatively young (sound familiar.. teixera). Cashman has shown he would rather sign free agents than makes trades and give up prospects.
Disclaimer: I’m not saying holliday is as good a player as tex but the situation is similar is that he is relatively young productive and plays a position the yanks need. He won’t cost as much as Tex did either
I still like Sheets on even a 2 year deal with a vesting option for a third year.
5.5 mil per year, bonuses based on IP and Games Started to take each year up to 11 mil and then the vesting option at 14 mil if he hits 400 IP in the first two years.
tex’s friend -
Sheets is another health risk.
Erin -
I just roll my eyes when I read stuff like that. Like Tex’s friend said – it’s an awfully bold statement considering they DON’T have a complete team right now (nor do the Yankees, for that matter). It’s great to be confident, not so hot to go out making proclamations. I personally like that the Yankees seem to steer away from such nonsense, generally speaking.
Meet Your 2010 New York Yankees Starting Lineup:
SS Jeter
CF Granderson
1B Teixeira
3B Arod
LF Holliday
DH Matsui
C Posada
2B Cano
RF Swisher
Now THAT’S one %$#@! lineup!
Hawpe: ‘All-star right fielder slumped in the 2nd half of 2009, and was benched against Phillies in NLDS. Walks a lot; strikes out a lot. Good arm, bad defense.’
___
Dont we already have a right fielder with similar stats and a similar MO? And again, you trade melky for that, Who plays CF? Stare at strike 3 gardner? no thanks!
Doreen-that was my reaction when I saw it too. Because we all know how well those predictions turned out for both the Angels and Phillies in the postseason.
“2010 top 10 prospects: New York Yankees’
http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....n-red-sox/
Chip
that’s way too much to give up for DeJesus and Meche….
if Healthy Wang is a much better pitcher than Meche and Nunez is a 22yr old plus glove SS who projects as a .300/20hr/30steal guy who’d hit at the top of a lineup. He’ll start the season in AAA and as much as i love Jeet he’s 36 and if he goes down with an injury Pena is our only option. Point being Nunez has more value to the Yanks than you’re giving him credit for.
The Yanks were this close to trading IPK for Ankiel straight up last season….Ian has more value as a chip around the league than i think most are aware of…to me i think he’d have more success in the NL
Melky is not the Yankees best defensive OFer. He’s not even close to Gardner when it comes to playing defense.
agreed on sheets, which is why you dont take him AND bedard. but sheets has more upside than bedard. bedard also has a knack for throwing 100 pitches in 5 innings. We have a pitcher named Joba who already does that.
Tex’s friend – I’m dealing Melky and Gardner – here’s my lineup:
Jeter – SS
DeJesus – LF
Tex – 1b
Alex – 3b
Posada – C
Hawpe – RF
Swisher – DH
Cano – 2b
Jackson – CF
Rotation:
CC, AJ, Andy, Meche, Hughes/Joba
melky is better OVERALl thank Gardner, and in the field, its a toss up. Gardner is faster and gets to more balls, but Melky’s arm is worlds better than Gardner and melky is a better hitter (definitely more of a threat).
All I know is I hold my breath when Brett Gardner is playing CF.
Why do you keep putting Hawpe in right field. Swisher is a much better fielder than Hawpe.
I also stay away from Bedard because he’s got a reputation for milking his injuries (as in Carl Pavano)
chip i actually dont have a real issue with David DeJesus if Cashman decides he fits. Same with Meche. I think Meche has pitched well against the Sox too. I trust Cashman will make the best with what is available to him.
Jerkface – fine, for you:
Jeter – SS
DeJesus – LF
Tex – 1b
Alex – 3b
Posada – C
Hawpe – DH
Swisher – RF
Cano – 2b
Jackson – CF
Happy now?
Tex –
I don’t like Meche as a number one or two – but as a back end starter I think he would be a huge upgrade for the team. He’s a guy who is going to give the team 200 innings, and throw strikes. He’s coming off a down year but the two years before he started 34 games each year and had a sub 4 ERA for an awful team. I’ll take that any day.
I hope Verlander or Hernandez gets it over Greinke imo.
According to stats MLB Pitching 2009 Greinke’s stats(that figure into the equation)ranks 7th overall.
ESPN list by stats
1.CC
2.Hernandez
3.Verlander
4.Halladay
5.Beckett
6.Scott Feldman(Tx)
7.Greinke
It would be nice if CC got it,but #2 AND #3 are worthy contenders too!!
So here are my two deals:
KC gets: Eduardo Nunez, Ian Kennedy, Brian Bruney, Brett Gardner, CM Wang’s arbitration rights.
Yankees get: David DeJesus and Gil Meche
Col gets: Aceves, Melky, McAllister, Kevin Russo
Yankees get: Hawpe & Clint Barmes
Melky is more of a threat at the plate. It remains to be seen if he’s a better offensive player in the long run. But i agree that he’s better at the plate right now.
But it’s not a toss up in the OF. Getting to more balls is the MOST important thing for an OFer. Melky has a better arm, but that comes into play very infrequently.
Plus, Melky’s arm has regressed. We all remember the cannon he had a couple of years ago. It’s now nothing more than slightly above average. The funny thing is, I can remeber scouts saying they had never seen Melky throw like he did when he first came up. Looks like it went just as fast as it came.
Doreen,
you hold your breath when gardner is in CF? Why in the world would you do that??
Matt Holliday is a horrible defensive player. No thank you.
Damon and a part time Matsui would be a better combination out there.
Melky is fine !. We won a Championship with him as our CF’er
And Cashman isn’t trading anyone until the Roy Holliday situation has been explored and exaushted
Egawa. You’re just wrong there. Holliday is no told Glover but he’s at worst averageim LF. Damon is below average and has one of the worst arms in the history of baseball. Matsui can’t even play the outfield.
*Roy Halladay
I’m not sure how I got drawn into a Melky conversation.
I agree that he’s fine…as long as he’s the worst hitting regular on your team. But if he’s suddnely your #7 or #8 hitter on a regular basis, you’re in trouble.
Matt Holliday is the Jason Giambi of left field. In the next 2-3 years or sooner, some team is going to move him to first and he’ll part time with DH.
You can bank on that.
http://www.theonion.com/conten....._rss_daily
The Onion never fails to amuse me
Egawa. You have no basis for that statement and frankly it makes no sense.
NYY626
November 17th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
http://www.theonion.com/conten….._rss_daily
The Onion never fails to amuse me
*******************
That’s hilarious. Gotta love The Onion.
Chip
that’s exactly why porfesional’s meet and make decisions because if Cash and crew totally gutted the farm of all their upper level youth in Russo,Nunez,IPK,McCal as well as youthful,usefull major league pieces in Ace,Gardy,Bruney and a former ace in Wang representing about $7mil in total salary commitments for DeJesus,Meche and two Rockies players who are hacks defensively and bad hitters away from Coor’s in Hawpe and Barmes and about $25-30mil in contracts they would all be fired and laughed out of baseball….
My basis is that in high pressure situations like tie breaking wild card games or postseason games, the guy chokes out there and misreads the flight of baseballs.
That’s not the kind of player for NY.
*Maybe the Mets.
http://www.bnd.com
Boras is putting St Louis to open the purse and takes a swipe at Mcgwire messing up Holliday’s swing last offseason.
*When site loads,click sports tab-Cardinals,article:
~Boras plays tune for Holliday,as Cardinals fiddle.
-Boras blames Mcgwire for Holliday’s bad first half stats,with the A’s.He says that Holliday had success when he went back to his old batting stance.
This is newsworthy because,the Cards are trying to use as leverage, Holliday’s friendship with Mcgwire as a reason he’ll want to stay.
Boras AS WE ALL KNOW isn’t into Warm and Fuzzy,when he smells a lot of money on the table!!
Melky has alot stronger of an arm than an slightly above average arm in the OF. he has an above average arm for a RF-er and a plus arm in CF and Lf. You’re repeating an inaccurate evaluation of Melky’s arm that McCarver said during the WS
Forgive me if this was already posted…Pretty cool video of the post season on mlb.com website
Fielding Stats:
SEASON TEAM POS G GS INN TC PO A E DP PB SB CS RF FPCT
2004 Colorado Rockies OF 115 109 917.0 188 177 4 7 1 — — — 1.78 .963
2005 Colorado Rockies OF 123 121 1049.2 248 236 5 7 2 — — — 2.07 .972
2006 Colorado Rockies OF 153 153 1334.1 291 277 8 6 2 — — — 1.92 .979
2007 Colorado Rockies OF 157 157 1383.2 306 296 7 3 0 — — — 1.97 .990
2008 Colorado Rockies OF 139 139 1229.1 252 240 9 3 3 — — — 1.82 .988
2009 Oakland Athletics OF 93 92 812.2 199 189 6 4 1 — — — 2.16 .980
2009 St. Louis Cardinals OF 62 62 540.2 88 86 1 1 0 — — — 1.45 .989
Career Totals 842 833 7267.1 1572 1501 40 31 9 — — — 1.91 .980
“Seattle wanted Austin Jackson at the deadline for Jarrod Washburn. Sometimes, teams get stupid when it comes to trade returns.”
At least Seattle had a reason for being so dumb.
There was a poster here who’s dumb enough to think that would have been a good trade for the Yankees.
Haha. So you are baseing all that on one missed flyball. yea that’s now GMs judge players, on one play. That makes him the “giambi of LF”
I’m not repeating anything that McGarver said because I don’t listen to the announcers. I listen to music while I watch the games.
The scouting reports (and results) on Melky’s arm dont support your grades.
We can agree to disagree, though. I’m not a Melky hater. I just think he gets way overvalued by a lot of Yankees fans.
“Disagree with Jackson. He had a great first half and a not so great 2nd half. Considering the rest of his career is more like his 2nd half and I really don’t think he’s more than a back of the rotation starter.
Additionally, Jackson’s peripheral stats do not look good, he is going to regress in a big way next year.”
Look at Jackson’s last 3 years. His peripherals have all been trending in the right direction.
He’s only 25.
I think he’s on the cusp of being a dominant pitcher personally.
Actually Champ what probably happens is that the pundits get on TV and bemoan how the Yankees got a slugging DH/RF who also hits for high average. A very good LF, a strong back of the rotation starter for a rotation that was only three deep down the stretch, and a good bench player while giving up:
2 fourth outfielders
1 spot starter/middle reliever
1 10th man on the 11 man pitching staff
2 Prospects (on in AA and one coming off surgery)
2 Prospects they might lose in the Rule V draft
1 solid pitcher up for arbitration who is oft injured.
And managed to get younger in the process just for taking back salaries – which are still lower than what they would have spent if they had dabbled in the FA market.
chip. so why would those clubs want to use their trading chips for spare parts? we can draw up all kinds of trade scenerios but it takes two to tango on this stuff.
No, what makes him the Giambi of LF is the contract that it’s going to take to get him. Scott Boras is his agent and he’s already beating the “Franchise player” drum meaning he wants a near 10 year contract.
He’s going to be 30 yrs old at the start of the season. Do you think his “at worst average LF” defense (as you put it) is going to get better?
He’s not getting 10 years and boras can beat that drum all he wants. Five is about what he will get and no I wouldn’t expect that defense to decrease much over the life of a five year deal where he will be 35 at the end.
Do you think his “at worst average LF” defense (as you put it) is going to get better?
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At worst means at worst he is average. Holliday is actually above average by any eye test or fielding metric you can find. Your accusations are baseless.
Positive UZR/150 in every season but one.
Sometimes stats lie..
http://fanhuddle.com/statistic.....-holliday/
“Projecting Holliday’s defensive value was slightly trickier. While UZR consistently has him as an above average left fielder (career UZR/150 of +7 runs), the scouting reports heard from most folks have him as below average. This is reflected in the way the Fans have voted in the Fans Scouting Report over the last four years, rating him as a -3 defender per 150 games based on a weighted average of the 2005-2008 results. “
Sometimes stats lie..
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So do Fans.
I’m not alone out there in my opinion.
You can find something in the internet to substantiate pretty much any claim. It means nothing
Sometimes they do but not fans of the teams HE’S on.
I’m not alone out there in my opinion.
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Same thing with those who agree he is above average, and those people are backed up by actual statistics.
Greinke vs Felix–
Better ERA, more Ks, better K/9, better WHIP, 16 wins on an awful team, more complete games, more shutouts….
Absolutely has to be Greinke
For a complete quote on what Scioscia said Yahoo sports about a week and a half ago quoted him saying it wasn’t the money. He credited the Yankees professional play.Sporting news cuts that quote out conveniently.
Sometimes they do but not fans of the teams HE’S on.
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Um yea, plenty of fans lie about everything all the time regardless of who they are talking about. Just look at any argument re: Gardner vs Melky. Plenty of lies. People lie about how Cano is lazy or bad at defense. There are plenty of motives for and reasons why someone would incorrectly judge Matt Hollidays defensive abilities as a fan.
Maybe they don’t like that he isn’t signing an extension with their team? Maybe they saw 1 bad play and based their opinion on that? (See: Swisher, Nick) Maybe they are just morons like most fans are ?
Those are not “lies” they are based on Truths. Cano can be lazy at times but his good far out weighs his bad.
Melky over plays baseballs, Gardner sometimes looks lost. No “lies” there both sides are right. Everyone is just looking at the team through the perspective they want to go.
The same could be said about my argument however it’s not based on a “lie”.
I don’t think Holliday offers any + to this team. No upgrade to the offense, he’s about equal to what Damon was. His D is debatable. He’s going to require between 14-16 million a year for at least 5 years.. probably going to be 6-8. Boras is the best at his job.
Those are not “lies” they are based on Truths. Cano can be lazy at times but his good far out weighs his bad.
Melky over plays baseballs, Gardner sometimes looks lost. No “lies” there both sides are right. Everyone is just looking at the team through the perspective they want to go.
The same could be said about my argument however it’s not based on a “lie”.
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Explain to me in great detail how Cano is lazy, despite working every day with Kevin Long on trying to get a better approach offensively, and every day with Mick Kelleher on fielding his position.
Go on, try and explain it, are you going to say its because he makes errors? Well Jeter makes errors, guess he is lazy. And as for those Gardner/Melky things, I never mentioned any specifics thats a strawman right there. Go look at any argument on these blogs theres going to be plenty of people making up stuff and trying to pass it off as facts.
Such as yourself, trying to say that Matt Holliday is the JASON GIAMBI of left field? Matt Hawpe is the Jason Giambi of the outfield, Matt Holliday is not even in the same realm as any of these players.
TangoTigers fan scouting reports are ok, but there is no study to confirm how close the values line up with actual defensive value of any player.
I don’t think Holliday offers any + to this team. No upgrade to the offense, he’s about equal to what Damon was. His D is debatable.
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Holliday is a line drive hitter with power to all fields who gets on base better than Damon.
Even when he ’sucked’ in oakland he was better than Damon. His down year total of HRs was equal to Damons career best.
Please, stop.
Egawa. If holliday will take 16-18 million for five yrs then I’m saying where do I sign if I’m cashman. Holliday is a darn good player.
Greinke won!
Now you’re just looking for an argument.
I never said Cano IS lazy. I said he can be lazy at times. HUGE difference. That’s not a knock on his offense either. I said his good far out weighs his bad.