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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Thinking Halladay two days from free agency

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 18, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

If you haven’t seen it, check out Jon Heyman’s latest column. Anything that leads with the Yankees making a phone call about Roy Halladay is worth a read.

The free agency free-for-all begins on Friday, when free agents are free to negotiate with any and every team. In that free agent market, John Lackey is the best pitcher available. In all of baseball, Halladay is the best pitcher who could change teams this winter.

One thing to keep in mind about the Yankees calling the Blue Jays is… Why wouldn’t they? They have to kick the tires. If Halladay were traded to the Red Sox straight up for Rocco Baldelli, every other team in baseball would look like fools for not checking on Halladay’s availability. There’s no harm in making a phone call.

But the Blue Jays do seem like a team that needs to make big moves when possible. They can’t beat the Yankees or Red Sox right now and might not be able to make a serious run at them until Halladay is well past his peak. Trading him — even within the division — for two or three high-end prospects makes sense. I have no idea what the asking price might be, but Halladay is better than Lackey and he’ll surely cost fewer prospects than Felix Hernandez. The Yankees are right to make some phone calls and ask some questions.

 
 

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242 Responses to “Thinking Halladay two days from free agency”

  1. RS November 18th, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    If we could get Halladay for Joba, Romine, Jackson, McAllister, and Kennedy (basically anyone except Hughes and Montero) I would do that in a heartbeat.

    I don’t see the Yankees giving up Hughes and Joba in the same deal (unless they’re getting back Grienke and Soria), and Montero could be that once a generation homegrown superstar ala Jeter, Bernie, and Mattingly.

  2. Vito November 18th, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    If the Bluejays are smart they make this a bidding war between the Yankees and Redsox. They are going nowhere with Halladay so they might as well get the best package they can for him. They just need to make sure not too overplay their hand like the Twins with Santana and they will get a handful of decent prospects.

  3. Terry from NH November 18th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    Maybe Halladay could straighten out AJ like he did when he was in Toronto.. That would be an awesome 3 with CC, Halladay and AJ. Then maybe you could still sign Holliday if AJax is in the deal.

  4. jake November 18th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    GO GET HALLADAY!!!!

    CC
    Halladay
    AJ
    Pettite
    Hughes/Wang

    Trade: Joba,Ajax, Romine and a prospect

  5. blake November 18th, 2009 at 9:22 pm

    If they want joba give them joba.. Cc and halladay together could mean multiple titles in the next few years.

  6. Joba in the pen November 18th, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    “Trade: Joba,Ajax, Romine and a prospect”

    That’s not giving up much for an ace like Halladay.

  7. Nick in SF November 18th, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    Trade Chapman for Halladay???

    No way! :mad:

  8. hornblower November 18th, 2009 at 9:25 pm

    Who told Jon Heyman about this call? Be skeptical about any reporting on the Yankees and Halladay. There is no way they will go for another big number.
    Jon Heyman’s batting average is well below the Mendoza line.

  9. David November 18th, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    An argument for getting Halliday is that the Yanks will have Jeter, Mo, and Posada playing at high levels for only another year or two. Maybe they should make sure they capitalize on their aging stars by adding a pitcher who will give them a great chance to win one or two more championships.

    OTOH the loss of the young talent traded for Halliday and the imminent career ending for Jeter, Mo and Po will lead to some poor years beginning in 2011 or 2012. The Yanks won’t be able to replace these three players with players of equal quality. Burnett, CC and Halliday may start to decline. Even Teix and ARod could decline, due to physical problems. The Yanks could be left with a huge payroll but players of declining skill.

    I agree with Chad that the Yanks should talk to Toronto, but I hope they don’t trade for Halliday. I’d rather see them try to get younger and stay strong year after year.

  10. Josh November 18th, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    Who told Jon Heyman about this call? Be skeptical about any reporting on the Yankees and Halladay. There is no way they will go for another big number.
    Jon Heyman’s batting average is well below the Mendoza line.
    ==============
    He’s still the best at what he does (at least from what I’ve seen) – I trust him over gasbags like Francesa who has been trying his darnedest to sell the NY baseball fans that The Mets are serious contenders to land Roy Halladay.

    I’m not buying that and I would hope most knowledgeable baseball fans wouldn’t either.

  11. 7789 November 18th, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    I rather trade Hughes than Chamberlain. Joba has more talent than Hughes he will be the better pitcher.

    Good luck not trying to include Montero in a trade for Halladay. Why would the blue jays not want the yanks best prospect for one of the best pitchers in baseball.

  12. GreenBeret7 November 18th, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    In the AFL today, Brandon Laird was 1-4 with a double (8), a walk and a strikeout. He’s hitting .333 with one game to play.

    Colin Curtis had a 3-5 day with a run scored, a homer (5), 2 RBI (18) and a strikeout. He also threw out a runner at home from right field.

  13. blake November 18th, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    I’m in the camp that the Yankees need to do everything they can to win in the next 2-3 years. I think they might find its kinda hard to win without the captain and the greatest closer in history. Halladay helps give them that chance for as many titles as possible before age starts to kick in on some of these guys.

  14. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 18th, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    I have no interest in trading team controlled under 25 year old pitchers with ace potential (Joba or Hughes) for a 33 year old pitcher who will either be here for 1 year or command at least a $100 million contract.

    If the Red Sox want to clear out their farm system and on top of that commit at least $100 million to a 33 year old pitcher then so be it. The Red Sox are an old team with tons of holes to fill between this offseason and next offseason. If they trade away 3 of their top prospects and then commit huge money to one guy they will be worse off in the long run.

  15. Nick in SF November 18th, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    We should pay Toronto to keep Halladay.

  16. Pat M. November 18th, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    I don’t the BoSox have the quality on the farm to make this happen ( Halladay )& find a 1st sacker…They’ll sign Scuturo….They really have some holes to fill…Not getting Texeria put them back 3 years at least….Yanks will not move Hughes I believe, Joba yes…..They still need to resolve the OF situation as well…..Granderson would be a perfect fit….Although signing Matt Holliday would be less than what the club paid for Damon & Matsui…..I still think they need to resign Mats….

  17. hornblower November 18th, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    When do the Yankees have enough high priced talent? At what point do they build with their system. Maybe a $400,000,000 payroll would be a good thing.
    You young guys are too much. Do you really want to buy all the players? This winter talk is so joyless. It’s time to find the next core four and enjoy their rise even if they don’t win the WS ever year.

  18. Vito November 18th, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    I would trade Joba for him. Joba has the stuff but is a head case. I see him blowing up in NYC sooner or later. I like AJAX but he too is replaceable (by Carl Crawford as a FA next year). Get Halladay now if you can for Joba and AJAX. Not too many guys out there who can pitch in the AL East and excel. When they are available GET THEM

  19. Bronx Jeers November 18th, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    Offer Toronto 2 Legend Seats and all the free retro beer they can drink and call it a day.

  20. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 18th, 2009 at 9:48 pm

    Jeter just had an MVP quality year at age 35. The guy definitely has more than 1-2 years of high quality ball left in the tank.

    Is decline even in Mo’s vocabulary? Even if he declines somewhat he will still be one of the best closers in baseball. I honestly believe him when he says he wants to pitch 5 more years and I bet he could do it at a high level. He is a freak of nature.

    Posada is the only one I worry about in the immediate future. If this is the last contract of his career which who knows maybe it will not be, the Yankees have a ton of high quality catching prospects.

    The future looks bright in Yankee land. I do not want to hemorrhage the farm system for one year of Halladay.

  21. Carsten Charles November 18th, 2009 at 9:49 pm

    Halladay goes on the open market next year.

    Even if the Sox trade for him, I doubt they’ll be able to resign him. They’re not gonna pay him market rate, plus they’re already hampered with the need to resign Beckett and VMart next year.

  22. Rose November 18th, 2009 at 9:50 pm

    “I trust him over gasbags like Francesa who has been trying his darnedest to sell the NY baseball fans that The Mets are serious contenders to land Roy Halladay.”

    He never said the Mets were contenders for Halladay. His opinion was the Mets should get Halladay so they will have 2 of the top pitchers in baseball on their staff.

  23. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 18th, 2009 at 9:54 pm

    I would trade Joba for him. Joba has the stuff but is a head case. I see him blowing up in NYC sooner or later. I like AJAX but he too is replaceable (by Carl Crawford as a FA next year). Get Halladay now if you can for Joba and AJAX. Not too many guys out there who can pitch in the AL East and excel. When they are available GET THEM

    ————————-

    Joba is 24 years old and has a 3.61 ERA in the big leagues. Have some patience. Look at Roy Halladay’s career path.

    In your scenario the Yankees are trading 2 of their top prospects for Halladay who will cost at least 20 mill a year and to fill the hole of AJAX in the system Crawford will cost at least 15 million a year. The Yankees payroll is going to hit $250 million in no time at the rate you are going

  24. Nick in SF November 18th, 2009 at 9:54 pm

    Edwar and Shelley to Toronto and $20 million Yankee dollars to the Padres, Doc and Wells to San Diego, Sea World season pas-ses to the Bronx.

  25. Josh November 18th, 2009 at 9:55 pm

    “When do the Yankees have enough high priced talent? At what point do they build with their system. Maybe a $400,000,000 payroll would be a good thing.
    You young guys are too much. Do you really want to buy all the players? This winter talk is so joyless.”
    ====================
    I’ve always been a firm believer in life as in baseball that he who dies with the most wins. The money train stops when it runs out of fuel. I don’t care about the people who complain that The Yankees spend too much money on players, I’m a Yankees fan…I want to see my team succeed and personally I feel that Roy Halladay would be a perfect fit for this team not only because he is a very talented pitcher but also because I feel that he would be a perfect fit in our clubhouse as well
    =======================
    “Halladay goes on the open market next year.

    Even if the Sox trade for him, I doubt they’ll be able to resign him.”
    =======================
    Think about this for a second – First do you think any big market team (Yankees, Red Sox) are going to trade top prospects for Halladay in exchange for one year of his services? – Second do you think Roy Halladay is going to sign anywhere without the guarantee of a contract extension? (Halladay has a full no trade clause and would need to approve any trade the TBJ make)

  26. Phil November 18th, 2009 at 9:57 pm

    Halladay makes a lot more sense for the Yanks than does Lackey. Meanwhile, his NTC and desire to play of the Yanks could inure to the Yanks benefit as they make a deal. Remember, they are not gonna offer more for Halladay at 33 as champs than they did for Santana at 29 when they weren’t champs.

  27. Josh November 18th, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    He never said the Mets were contenders for Halladay. His opinion was the Mets should get Halladay so they will have 2 of the top pitchers in baseball on their staff.
    =======================
    I agree his top arguing point is “The Mets need Roy Halladay to entice their fanbase back into Citi Field” but if you listened to his show today, he was trying to sell his listeners that The Mets had a legitimate chance (ie: were contenders) for Roy Halladay.

    Hoards of Mets fans called in with comments like “Do you really seriously think that The Mets could get Halladay?” and Mike’s response was always to bang the drum a bit more and push his reality that The Mets were legitimate contenders for Halladay which according to WFAN’s own insider (Heyman) is inaccurate.

  28. blake November 18th, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    Prospects are just that, they are players that could contribute one day. Halladay is already one of the best if not the best pitcher in baseball and likely will be for 4-5 more years and he has had all this success in the AL east..

    Other than maybe montero there isn’t any prospect in the Yankee system that I can see having the kind of impact that Halladay will over the next few years.

    Montero should be off limits and maybe Hughes but I’m tradin anybody else if I can get Roy. Win now baby!

  29. Pat M. November 18th, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    lets go yankees….Toronto will allow time for any club interested in obtaining Hallady to work out an extension…..I’m with you in just trading for him just for the 2010 season……But I do think the Jays will be demanding Hughes & or Joba, just to start the conversation…..I still think Joba can be a factor, but this offseason will be an important one for him…..He needs to get in shape

  30. Mike RI November 18th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    I don’t understand a few things

    How is 33 old ???

    And how will Halliday straighten out AJ. … AJ has ring . Halladay has never pitched in the playoffs. exactly what needs to be straightened out.

  31. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 18th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    Rose

    Do you know what is in the hearts of the Angel team? Since you don’t, your opinion is worthless.
    _____________
    Abdababdaserser
    November 18th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    So is yours. I laid out my opinion and stated how I felt. You just give out an insult. Really classy of you.

    ——————–

    I do not know how much credibility you have insulting someone else’s class when you are trotting around minimizing the death of a human being and saying the Angels put on a show, because apparently they did not grieve the “right way.”

    Also, her opinion is not worthless because it is actually based on something. She saw a team upset over a fallen teammate. She saw a team who tried to include this fallen teammate in everything they did this year. She saw a team pay tribute to their teammate before every game and make sure his memory was not forgotten just because the season must go on. She based her opinion on this and unless you have facts to say otherwise it is the most reasonable explanation to say they were grieving.

    Your opinion is worthless because you just made up something in your head based on who knows what and tried to pass it as fact. That would be quite a show by the Angels if indeed they were “faking” it as you suggest. And to gain what? Nothing.

  32. Phil November 18th, 2009 at 10:04 pm

    Again, the Yanks are not gonna offer the players they wouldn’t offer for Santana two years ago when he was 4 years younger than Halladay is now and they hada bigger need.

  33. Anthony November 18th, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    i’ve been sayin this is the “Crazy” Cashman move of this winter. last year it was pullin tex out from under the Angels and red sox.. this year it’s sweeping Halladay from Toronto.
    I say trade Joba, Kennedy, and Montero plus maybe 1 or 2 mid level prospects with upside! montero is great but there’s no place for him on the Yanks, the organization ruined Joba by turning him into a schizo pitcher.. one min starter, next a reliever.. as for Kennedy now is the time to trade him! his post-surgery stats have been phenomenal and mask the fact he is no better then a AAAA pitcher.
    I see this trade as a no-brainer!
    DO IT CASHHHHH

  34. Nick in SF November 18th, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    Chad Gaudin has a ring now too. Maybe he can straighten Doc out.

  35. damon enjoy 27...think 28 November 18th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    For a good laugh http://www.bostondirtdogs.com

  36. Anthony November 18th, 2009 at 10:08 pm

    “Phil
    November 18th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
    Again, the Yanks are not gonna offer the players they wouldn’t offer for Santana two years ago when he was 4 years younger than Halladay is now and they hada bigger need.”

    You need to realize that they believed Joba was going to be a phenomenal starter which he is not and before they realized Kennedy was going to a AAAA pitcher, dominant in AAA and awful in the majors. Also, Santana has been battling elbow issues since he became a Met so maybe the Yanks scout team picked up on something and it scared them off of the move.

  37. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 18th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    Roy Halladay may well still be an elite pitcher at ages 36, 37, and 38 but it is not likely.

    Pat,

    I said before I have no interest in trading prospects for one year of Halladay AND then on top of that committing 100 mill to him. That is a lot of dough to hand out to another pitcher and at the same creating huge holes in your organization that will have to be filled by throwing out more money i.e. Carl Crawford.

    And 33 is old because we are talking about what his potential career with the Yankees will be. If the Yankees traded for him he would be in his mid to late 30s for half of the contract at least.

  38. nj2taiwan November 18th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    I would be stunned if Halladay signs any extension b4 becoming a FA. He waited what six years to attain free agency and now, one year away he is going to give it up? No chance. And if he is going to be a FA next year why would the Yankees (or any team) pay big twice (hi potential, ML ready players, then $) to get him? The Mets got Santana without giving up F-Mart (or practically anything else, as it turns out). The best package Boston was willing to give up (during a pennant race!) did not include either Lester, Bard or Kelly. Why in the world (now, with 3 months less of Halladay’s services) would the Yankees give up Hughes or Joba? When Halladay gets traded it will be for a LOT less than some folks are suggesting the Yankees give up, IMO. If it’s the Yankees, the package might (but likely will not) include Hughes or Joba (but not Montero), but more likely include lesser prospects. If Boston did not include Bard/Kelly/Lester during the season, the Yankees will not include their crown jewels either.

  39. Josh November 18th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    “Again, the Yanks are not gonna offer the players they wouldn’t offer for Santana two years ago when he was 4 years younger than Halladay is now and they had a bigger need.”
    =====================
    I agree with you on the second point (the bigger need) but I think we as fans place more emphasis on age than the people actually involved in baseball do. I think we all assume that all GMs think alike or base our knowledge on the situation on what the media tells us.

    This isn’t always the case…for example we all assumed back in the winter of 2007/2008 that The Yankees didn’t want to trade for Johan Santana simply because they didn’t want to give up both prospects and money for his services. While that may have been part of the equation we were missing another big chunk of that equation that didn’t come out until information on the signing of CC Sabathia came to light. Apparently one of the reasons Brian Cashman didn’t trade for Santana was because he looked ahead to the FA class the following year and thought he’d have a good chance of signing Sabathia as FA and therefore obtain an ace pitcher and still hold onto his prospects.

    We don’t really know for sure how highly the Yankees value Roy Halladay. We know his resume and that he has had success against The Yankees in his career but we don’t know if Halladay is on the “short list” of guys who Cashman will trade his prospects for. He’s an interesting candidate though because as of right now he’s as good as it gets in baseball…

  40. Laura - Bring back Matsui in 2010! November 18th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    I’d send Joba and a couple of prospects to TOR for Halladay.

  41. Mike RI November 18th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    Nick In SF

    Gaudin may have a ring . But he doens’t have a World Series win !.

  42. Rose November 18th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins)

    Thank you.

  43. Terry from NH November 18th, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    AJ’s numbers in 08 were better with Halladay mentoring him.. How does having a ring make AJ a better pitcher? That’s not Halladays fault that management put a crap team on the field. Halladay’s played on some pretty poor Toronto teams so hence him not being in the playoffs. AJ had one good outing in the playoffs..

  44. RS November 18th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    I have a question. Around the trade deadline, the Red Sox were rumored to have offered almost their entire farm system for Halladay, Hernandez, and Gonzalez, yet none of those teams bit at their offers.

    From what we’ve heard, the Sox are dead seat on making a huge trade this offseason and are once again linked to those three players. My question is, if the Sox couldn’t get what they wanted in July, how much have their chances increased, if it all, now that it’s the offseason?

    They have fewer chips now than they had before the Victor Martinez deal, so that might play a factor. Masterson was a pretty good chip that they no longer have, and Bowden might have lowered his value a bit with his dismal showing in September.

    I think it’s intriguing to see what the Sox can/will do, because I think they know that just resigning Bay won’t be enough.

  45. Nick in SF November 18th, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    Gaudin might not have a World Series win, but he has the satisfaction of knowing that he was the safety net that allowed us to use a 3-man rotation throughout the postseason.

    That is, by not starting any games or pitching any important innings, he kept us safe.

  46. Mike RI November 18th, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    Im not saying having a ring makes AJ a better pitcher. But does AJ really need a mentor anymore. He carried this team when CC was stuggling . Pitched well in the Playoffs and was lights out in Game 2 of the World Series.

    Don’t give me he had one good outing. he was OUTSTANDING in game 2. ok he lost game 5. it happens

    I think AJ can pitch without a Mentor. And some point in time we need to cut the cord.

  47. Mike RI November 18th, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    - At some point AJ needs to cut the cord

  48. Joa in the pen November 18th, 2009 at 10:19 pm

    Josh

    Francesa said the Mets would have a great chance to get Halladay if they would also take Vernon Wells, which I don’t think any team would do.

  49. Nick in SF November 18th, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    “At some point AJ needs to cut the cord”

    No more huggy bear personal catcher?

  50. Pat M. November 18th, 2009 at 10:23 pm

    lets go yankees….Cashman will listen and see what Toronto is really looking for in return….I do agree with you that the talks have to include a chance to get Doc to agree to the terms of an extenstion…Much like when Theo landed Schilling back on Thanksgiving Day 2003…..The real issue I have is what Toronto expects back in terms of players….Money is really not an issue as you & I know….Hate to see Joba / Hughes leaving the Bronx…Cashman will not trade Young Master Hughes

  51. blake November 18th, 2009 at 10:24 pm

    Halladay has a no trade clause. Why would he want to go to the Mets?

  52. jake November 18th, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    Laura – Bring back Matsui in 2010!
    November 18th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
    “I’d send Joba and a couple of prospects to TOR for Halladay.”

    Toronto would laugh at such an offer especially since questions have been raised about how effective Joba will be.

  53. Josh November 18th, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    I have a question. Around the trade deadline, the Red Sox were rumored to have offered almost their entire farm system for Halladay, Hernandez, and Gonzalez, yet none of those teams bit at their offers.
    ====================
    The Red Sox were dealing with a different TBJ GM at the time who wanted dbl the amount of prospects from any division rival before he’d consider an offer from them over a non-divisional team.
    =======================
    Josh

    Francesa said the Mets would have a great chance to get Halladay if they would also take Vernon Wells, which I don’t think any team would do.
    =============================
    That was flat out moronic (perhaps the most moronic thing he’s said in his entire Halladay/Mets crusade) – Does Francesa really think that The Mets, (a team that is looked upon as a conservative big market team in comparison to the Red Sox/Yankees) would give Roy Halladay the big money contract extension he wants and then take on one of the worst contracts in baseball as well.

    This is all you need to know about Francesa. Where he started his Mets/Halladay crusade last week one of his main selling points was “Don’t tell me The Mets don’t have the prospects in their system to get this done”. It appears that since he made that comment he must have talked to Heyman over the weekend because he amended it yesterday to “The Mets are probably going to need to take on Vernon Welles contract because on prospects alone, The Red Sox/Phillies have better prospects then The Mets do”.

    *rolls eyes*

  54. Mike RI November 18th, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    Not sure why Francessa is building up the Mets hopes of landing Halladay. They’re going to get crushed.

  55. Rich in NJ November 18th, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    As long as the Yankees don’t trade Hughes, Joba, or Montero (and maybe D Rob), I might be able to accept a trade for Halladay.

  56. Rich in NJ November 18th, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    Francesa is a lot better without Russo, but a lot of what he says is just dumb.

  57. Joba in the pen November 18th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    No team will trade for Halladay unless an extension is worked out beforehand. Otherwise why give up a bunch of players for Halladay for 1 year.

  58. blake November 18th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    Rich, Without at least one of those it aint happenin. I’d trade Joba and/or D Rob for Halladay in a hot second.

  59. Rich in NJ November 18th, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    blake

    Then I wouldn’t make the deal.

    They can choose from Romine, AJack, IPK, Melancon, McAllister, Banuelos, Heredia, etc.

    I might…might consider DRob, but that’s it.

  60. Rich in NJ November 18th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    Now, if we were about talking King Felix…

  61. GreenBeret7 November 18th, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    Terry from NH
    November 18th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
    AJ’s numbers in 08 were better with Halladay mentoring him.. How does having a ring make AJ a better pitcher? That’s not Halladays fault that management put a crap team on the field. Halladay’s played on some pretty poor Toronto teams so hence him not being in the playoffs. AJ had one good outing in the playoffs..

    ————————————————————

    Only one good start in the post season? Try 3. His opening starts in each of his opening PS starts were 3 starts,19.1 innings, 10 hits and 4 runs. He had two bad starts, but, then you dismiss the three good by deciding that his only good start was when NYY decided to score enough runs to get him a win. That’s beyond stupid.

  62. blake November 18th, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    I’d trade Joba for King Felix in a second as well. I honestly don’t see Joba ever being more than a middle of the rotation starter or a setup man. I take the Cy young winner over the “might be one day” anytime.

  63. Heyya November 18th, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    Anthony,

    Joba, IPK, Montero, and two other prospects with upside? As if the three we already included have no upside at all? I would not do that trade. It’s not like we do that and get him for me. We will need to give him a fairly sized extension too.

  64. Heyya November 18th, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    Free* …not “me.”

  65. TW November 18th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    If both Halladay and Holliday become Yankees, commentators in Taiwan are going to have to always say Halladay the pitcher and Holliday the outfielder so we don’t get confused.

    Nick in SF, a fact for you.

    From ETTV: A US betting website said that bets on games started by Wang totaled at least three times higher than other Yankee games in the regular season. He set a record that remains unbroken to this day.

  66. GreenBeret7 November 18th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    Let me know when Hernandez has pitched long enough and well enough to earn a nickname like “King Felix”. In 4 full seasons, he’s had 2 seasons under .500 and three seasons of an ERA over 3.45 while pitching in an airport. Maybe he’ll earn a nickname like that some day, but, it ain’t happened yet. He’s had one outstanding season. The others have been decent to poor. Porcello is more deserving of being “King”.

  67. Phil November 18th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    I’m with Rich.

    And btw, people in baseball are paying more and more attention to things like age data and decline indeces than they used to be. 33 is not 29. And remember Halladay can stear this thing with his NTC, and it just so happens his best friend in on the Yankees and willing to recruit. The Yanks will not give up more than the Mets did for Santana and neither will the Socks. The line’s been drawn and the Yanks and Sox didn’t cross it for Santana and the Phillies didn’t cross it for Lee. The valuation of top prospects has changed aroudn baseball and smart teams are clinging to then.

  68. Joe from Long Island November 18th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    I wonder if Toronto is going to get less than what everyone’s expecting. Cash didn’t break the bank for a younger Santana, and neither did Theo. They both realize that if you have young, inexpensive pitchers you believe in, you don’t deal them away for a short term fix. I don’t think Theo is going to deal Bucholz/Bard (Boston has plans for each of them), and Cash the same with Joba and Phil. Neither Cash nor Theo is excited about paying twice.

    I’ll go out on a limb, and say that Toronto gets IPK. If they want more, then Cash will look to Ben Sheets.

  69. Phil November 18th, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    And they are NOT trading Montero. They think he’s their best power prospect since Mantle.

  70. Phil November 18th, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    Joe, of course they are. You always get more at the deadline, and the price has gone down since then.

  71. Jeremy November 18th, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    Joe from Long Island

    I agree with you. I think Cashman will lay low and give an incentive deal to Ben Sheets. Especially since the free agent class of pitchers in 2011 will be better than this year.

    The Yankees are still better than the Red Sox and they are the team to beat even without Halladay.

  72. Nick in SF November 18th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    TW: I remember reading in the Taiwan English language paper that huge amounts of money were bet on the Yanks for game one of the 2007 ALDS vs Cleveland. The sportsbooks made a killing when the Yanks lost. :(

  73. Josh November 18th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    Yankee fans…so delirious. Do you guys think canadians are stupid?. Nothing less than Hughes , Jackson , montero and mid level prospect. But Yankees beware in a few years your farm will be crippled and you will suck…pfff what am I talking about you’ll just buy free agency…

  74. Jeremy November 18th, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    GreenBeret7

    Porcello hasn’t earned it as well. The guy is nothing more than a 20 year old rookie who pitched good in one season.

  75. Phil November 18th, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    Josh,

    You haven’t been paying attention to the trade market for the last two years.

  76. blake November 18th, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    Jeremy, the Yankees are still better than the Red Sox and are the team to beat….unless Halladay is on the Red Sox.

  77. Betsy November 18th, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    Frankly, I’ve not thought of Halladay at all. I think it’s just a way to pass the off-season……and I refuse to engage in any fantasizing (preferring to stick to reality).

    The Jays may not get as much as they could have last year, but they are still going to make a team pay until it hurts, particularly an AL East team. I am not interested in the slightest in giving up Phil, Joba or Montero – and any package for Doc will start with those. If the Sox want to give up their farm, let them. The Yankees don’t need to be scared of any team and I detest the idea that they should make a move just to block the Sox. It’s one thing if they are inclined to make the trade, another if they only do so out of fear.

    I do not think the Yankees will trade Phil, Joba or Hughes, so this is all just pie in the sky for Yankee fans.

  78. Betsy November 18th, 2009 at 10:59 pm

    RS, that would be a horrible trade………that is way, way too much for Doc, even with an extension.

  79. Betsy November 18th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    Cashman is too smart – he will not get into a bidding war (even if he is interested in Doc).

  80. Betsy November 18th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    Yeah, AJ was horrible this year………

  81. no.27 November 18th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    My problem with going after Halladay is that it pretty much takes the Yankees out of the free agent market for the next 5 years. In 2012, the Yankees have $122.5 million committed to A-Rod, CC, Teixeira, Burnett, Cano, and Jeter (assuming he signs for $20M/yr). Add $23M/year for Halladay, and there isn’t much left over to fill out the roster.

    On top of that, the Yankees will need to give up some of their cheap young talent to trade for Halladay and replace them with more expensive veterans.

    I say, keep the prospects, resign the veterans, and wait for guys like King Felix and Joe Mauer to give out the last big contract the Yankees are going to be able to afford.

  82. Joe from Long Island November 18th, 2009 at 11:01 pm

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the real action is over Sheets. Both Cash and Theo will see him as a decent bet, coming off flexor tendon elbow surgery, rather than shoulder surgery. And he will only cost dollars, not a cost-controlled young players that you’ve been holding tight. Winner will get Sheets. Loser will have to keep pace and spend both talent and dollars for Doc. And in spending that young talent, you mortgage your future.

    It’s a tough division.

  83. Phil November 18th, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    Betsy,

    You haven’t been paying attention to the trade market over the last two years, either.

    The Phillies traded none of their top three prospects at the deadline for Lee, and he beat Halladay for the Cy Young in the AL last year.

    The price, without the deadline looming is gonna be less for Halladay, and Toronto is delusional if they think they will even get what they were offered at the deadline. And Halladay wants out and can stear the whole thing with his NTC. Like Detroit, they have some immovable contracts that will give them plenty of incentive to move Halladay’s.

  84. Josh November 18th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    I love how Joe Mauer and Carl Crawford are expected..Yankee fans so delirious

  85. no.27 November 18th, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    “Yankee fans…so delirious. Do you guys think canadians are stupid?. Nothing less than Hughes , Jackson , montero and mid level prospect. But Yankees beware in a few years your farm will be crippled and you will suck…pfff what am I talking about you’ll just buy free agency…”

    What did Santana cost the Mets?

    What did CC cost the Brewers?

  86. Betsy November 18th, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    1 good outing in the playofofs? Ok………..

  87. ray (sox fan) November 18th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    I am hearing that the Sox might be willing to take a chance on Rich Harden.

    Seems like even though the low risk hopefully high reward approach that didn’t work with Smoltz and Penny may not keep the Sox from offering the same kind of contract to Harden.

  88. Betsy November 18th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    AJ and Doc are friends, but I hardly think they are close enough to where Doc is going to force the issue with the Jays……He didn’t exactly press the Jays to trade him to the Yankees last year and he won’t do it this year.

  89. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 18th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    GreenBeret7
    November 18th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
    Let me know when Hernandez has pitched long enough and well enough to earn a nickname like “King Felix”. In 4 full seasons, he’s had 2 seasons under .500 and three seasons of an ERA over 3.45 while pitching in an airport. Maybe he’ll earn a nickname like that some day, but, it ain’t happened yet. He’s had one outstanding season. The others have been decent to poor. Porcello is more deserving of being “King”.

    ——————–

    I was somewhat following you there until you said Porcello is more deserving of King. Your whole argument was based on Felix not having a track record deserving of the nickname King, yet you end your argument saying a guy who has pitched one above average season and maybe a 1/4 of the track record of Porcello is more deserving of King. I do not think it gets more logically inconsistent than that.

  90. Betsy November 18th, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    I never call Hernandez “King” – I think it’s the stupidest nickname I’ve ever heard.

  91. Jeremy November 18th, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    But I thought that the Red Sox were going after Adrian Gonzalez ?

    So how are the Sox going to make all these moves when there farm system is overrated to begin with ? It’s either Adrian or Halladay and they might not even be able to get one of those guys.

  92. Betsy November 18th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    Also, AJ is hardly a recruiter. He was quoted last year a the trade deadline as saying he hadn’t spoken to Doc and was not planning to try and convince him to come to NY

  93. Phil November 18th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    is Josh a troll?

    And who is expecting Mauer, who will re-sign with the Twins, or Crawford, who the Yanks won’t trade for. Whoever he is, he doesn’t realize the Yanks and Rays basically hate each other over Tampa where the Yanks were training before the Rays were born.

  94. no.27 November 18th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

    GreenBeret,

    Felix Hernandez is 23 years old and already has over 900 IP in the major leagues and has improved each year he’s been in the league. He’s the best young pitcher in baseball and when he’s a free agent, he’s going to get the biggest contract a pitcher’s ever gotten.

    How can anyone not like King Felix?

  95. Phil November 18th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

    Betsy,

    If he had said he had spoken to Doc about coming the NYC, the Yanks would have been tagged for tampering.

  96. blake November 18th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

    I just don’t understand this fascination people have with Joba. If he had came up with another team then I doubt anyone would even know who he is. He has talent yes, but he’s done nothing to give anyone reason to think that he’ll ever be close to the caliber of pitcher that Halladay is and there are young pitchers just like him in nearly every organization.

    I don’t know what a deal for Halladay would entail but I don’t understand anyone’s reasoning for refusing to include Joba.

  97. Pat M. November 18th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

    Joe from Long Island…..You’re right about Ben Sheets as he could turn out to be the signing of this offseason……Grab Granderson & Jackson from Detroit….I’ll keep saying this all winter, Cashman does not want both Hughes & Joba in the rotation when camp breaks next spring….Now if Pettite decides to retire, then it changes things….

  98. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 18th, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    2011 offseason will be very interesting:

    CC has an opt out clause and King Felix becomes a free agent

  99. Nick in SF November 18th, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    Bitter Blue Jays fan?

    Ha!

  100. Josh November 18th, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    is Josh a troll?
    ===================
    For the record there are two “Josh”‘s on this blog – I’m the one who separates his responses to posts with “===”.

  101. Josh November 18th, 2009 at 11:13 pm

    Seriously and Honestly..why do the Yankees care about their prospects? The inevitable mauer and Tex will block montero …Carl Crawford will block Austin Jackson..

  102. Betsy November 18th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    Phil, the Indians demanded more from the Yankees (Phil) than they did from the Phils – that’s how it works; the Yankees always have to pay more. I really don’t believe Doc cares about coming to NY – he’d be fine with it, but it’s not like his heart is set on it. He just wants to go to a winner, preferrably a team that has ST in Florida.

    I’m not saying the Jays will get as much as they would have last year, but what constitutes “too much”? They might think Phil plus AJax and lesser prospects is fair, but the Yankees might balk at that. They will demand Phil (not Joba – word is that the Jays don’t like Joba nearly as much as they like Phil) – they’ve got to get something decent back for Doc………..I do not think there is any chance the Yankees trade Phil.

    Joe, we really don’t know what kind of interest the Yankees have in Sheets. They loved him last year, but then his medicals ………..That was then, this is now. Who knows?

  103. GreenBeret7 November 18th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    Jeremy
    November 18th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
    GreenBeret7

    Porcello hasn’t earned it as well. The guy is nothing more than a 20 year old rookie who pitched good in one season.

    ————————————————————

    Hey!! Nothing gets past you, does it? All I said was that Porcello was as deserving or moreso because of his age and record this year of the idiotic name/title of “King”. How about letting them put in about 7-10 years before annointing either one of being emperor of the earth and HOF worthy. They could both be gone from the scene in 3 years.

  104. Phil November 18th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    Well Josh,

    is one of you or both of you trollish by nature? Or is one of you a Yankee fan?

  105. blake November 18th, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Sheets would be a great guy to take a risk on. He’s a strike throwing machine and has great stuff and make up. Sure he may get hurt, but he could end up being the second best pitcher on the team as well.

  106. Dark Dante November 18th, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    I can’t speak for the other Josh but I’m no troll. To make things easier I’m going to change my handle now to “Dark Dante” – Josh

  107. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 18th, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    blake
    November 18th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
    I just don’t understand this fascination people have with Joba. If he had came up with another team then I doubt anyone would even know who he is. He has talent yes, but he’s done nothing to give anyone reason to think that he’ll ever be close to the caliber of pitcher that Halladay is and there are young pitchers just like him in nearly every organization.
    I don’t know what a deal for Halladay would entail but I don’t understand anyone’s reasoning for refusing to include Joba.

    ——————–

    Yeah what could the fascination possibly be?

    A 24 year old with 2 A+ pitches and 2 other above average pitches. A 24 year old with a career 121 ERA+. Those are a dime a dozen. Wanting to have that kind of pitcher under team control for a number of years is ludicrous.

  108. Betsy November 18th, 2009 at 11:17 pm

    Phil, that’s true……but I guess I’m not going to assume anything with AJ and Doc. I don’t know how often they speak during the off-season……I remember many of us on Yankee boards thought that Santana wanted to be a Yankee and would force the Twins hand. It didn’t exactly work out that way, did it? He was just happy to get out of Minnesota. Doc seems like he’s the same way……..

  109. blake November 18th, 2009 at 11:17 pm

    Ok from now on we’ll call him “extremely young and talented Felix”

  110. Jeremy November 18th, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    CC is staying with the Yankees especially after his first World Series ring in his first year.

  111. PJ November 18th, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    DONT TRADE FOR ROY UNLESS JAYS BECOME DESPERATE…LIKE SOME1 SAID EARLIER SOX GOT TO PAY BECKETT AND VMART SO I DOUBT IT THEY WILL PAY FOR ROY ALSO AND THEY ALSO WOULD PROLLY PREFER ADRIAN OR A HITTER BUT WHO KNOWS

  112. Phil November 18th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    Gee Betsy,

    Halladay wants to be traded to a team where he can win. Unequivocally his best bet is the Yanks. AJ is his closest friend, and vice versa. And he can steer this with his NTC. The Yanks never bite for the “pay more in trade thing” anymore. That was a Tampa thing, not a Cash thing. We’ll see what happens. But I see no way Hughes, Joba or Montero are involved, especially since the Sox have already pulled Bucholz. Now, if Halladay and his agent decide they want the extension now, it becomes a very small market indeed, and the price goes down again, because the new team will be on the line for a big extension.

    We’ll see how this works out, but I think Cash is gonna have another great offseason.

  113. Dark Dante November 18th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    DONT TRADE FOR ROY UNLESS JAYS BECOME DESPERATE…LIKE SOME1 SAID EARLIER SOX GOT TO PAY BECKETT AND VMART SO I DOUBT IT THEY WILL PAY FOR ROY ALSO AND THEY ALSO WOULD PROLLY PREFER ADRIAN OR A HITTER BUT WHO KNOWS
    ==================
    Well Tito was quoted on Boston radio this morning as saying that whenever the front office asks him what he needs his response is always “pitching”.

    However I personally agree with you that Boston is in need of a bat especially if they are unable to retain Jason Bay. Even if they keep Bay there was a significant period of time last season, where The Red Sox flat out didn’t hit and it was during this time that they coughed up their lead in the division to The Yankees. So I wouldn’t be surprised if Gonzales is on the Red Sox’s “short list”.

  114. GreenBeret7 November 18th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    no.27
    November 18th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
    GreenBeret,

    Felix Hernandez is 23 years old and already has over 900 IP in the major leagues and has improved each year he’s been in the league. He’s the best young pitcher in baseball and when he’s a free agent, he’s going to get the biggest contract a pitcher’s ever gotten.

    How can anyone not like King Felix?

    ————————————————————

    I didn’t say that I didn’t like Hernandez (or Porcello, for that matter) as a pitcher. I just said that neither has earned the idiotic nickname of “King”.

  115. Jeremy November 18th, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    GreenBeret7
    Wow ! Why so hostile buddy ?

  116. blake November 18th, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    There are a lot of guys with 2 A+ pitches. Kyle Farnsworth had 2 A+ pitches. Whats between Joba’s ears is what concerns me. I’m not trying to be mean and I like Joba but I think he’s been riding his 2007 relief stint for 2 years now. He was throwing 100 MPH strikes in 2007. He doesn’t do that anymore and really hasn’t done much since the attack of the midges or whatever in Cleveland. He’s lost velocity, he’s out of shape, and seems to be regressing instead of improving. Yea sounds great to me.

  117. GreenBeret7 November 18th, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    Jeremy
    November 18th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
    GreenBeret7
    Wow ! Why so hostile buddy ?

    ————————————————————

    Trust me….I ain’t your “buddy”. I dislike trolls.

  118. Nick in SF November 18th, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    If President Obama bows to him, he truly is King Felix.

  119. Phil November 18th, 2009 at 11:29 pm

    Lots of young pitchers go through what Joba’s gone through since he hurt his shoulder. Yanks just need to be patient. They’d seen all 4 pitches and have plenty of good mentors on hand for him.

  120. Jeremy November 18th, 2009 at 11:31 pm

    GreenBeret7
    I’m not a troll so what are you talking about ?

    I’m always on this blog and I’ve been a yankee fan my whole life, so please tell me how I’m a troll ?

  121. Betsy November 18th, 2009 at 11:31 pm

    Gee Phil, I guess we’ll have to see just how close AJ and Doc are………Doc is also close to Chris Carpenter – why not go to St. Louis?

  122. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 18th, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    First off Kyle Farnsworth does not have 2 A+ pitches. Just because you throw 100 mph does do mean the pitch is A+ when it is straight as an arrow. Also way to ignore the rest of that sentence. Very few guys have 2 A+ pitches AND to other above average pitches.

    Also there is no such thing as regression when you only have 281 big league innings. There are ups and downs and lots of bumps in the road when developing young pitchers. You impatience with such a young pitcher is ridiculous. Look at the career at any ACE pitcher in the big leagues and he has had those ups and downs. Not to mention most of those guys had a ton of experience in the minors.

    Yeah, Joba has not done anything since 2007. He did not have a 2.60 ERA and 171 ERA+ in 2008. He also did not pitch to well under a 4.0 ERA for much of this season. Those things never happened.

  123. Pat M. November 18th, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    GB, The King moniker is typical of today’s fans…They use the terms ” Great, Superstar, Choke etc.” very loosely….I mean He has a great deal of upside and potential, but he’s not Vida Blue …..

  124. blake November 18th, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    I hope you people are right about Joba. I’d love to see him develop into the pitcher that so many people think he can be. I just don’t see it happening….but who knows.

  125. Dark Dante November 18th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    Gee Phil, I guess we’ll have to see just how close AJ and Doc are………Doc is also close to Chris Carpenter – why not go to St. Louis?
    ==================
    Do the Cards have the prospects/money to take on Halladay at this time? (assuming of course he’ll insist on a contract extension)

  126. Phil November 18th, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    We’ll see, Betsy.

  127. Nick in SF November 18th, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    Did the Twitter Generation fans choke when they gave King Felix his nickname???

  128. Betsy November 18th, 2009 at 11:40 pm

    Yes, I’m sure Doc isn’t going to St. Louis, but unless Doc and AJ are attached at the hip, I just do not believe that AJ is going to do a major recruiting pitch nor do I believe that Doc will force the Jays to trade him to the Yankees.

  129. Betsy November 18th, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    Yes we will, Phil…….I expect Yankee fans to be extremely disappointed. I’m concentrating on figuring out LF and DH as I’m fine with our pitching staff.

  130. Betsy November 18th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11.....f=baseball

  131. Jeremy November 18th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    Joba has a lot of potential he just has to be in shape next year, and the experience he gained should help.

  132. damon enjoy 27...think 28 November 18th, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    Pj
    Sox have Papelbon too coming up next year too!!

  133. blake November 18th, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    He’s 24, not 20 or 21. Its time to start producing. He knew he was getting his chance at a rotation spot last year and he came in to Spring Training fat and out of shape. He instilled so much confidence in Girardi that they had to go to a 3 man rotation in the playoffs.

    For every Ace pitcher that you speak of that went through bumps in the road and succeeded there are 100 pitchers with the same talent that never get above mediocrity. Nobody has a clue if Joba will turn into a dominant starter, be average, be below average, or end up in the bullpen at this point.

  134. Nick in SF November 18th, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    Counter-point: a player who chose his team to be close to Freddy Garcia is King of nothing.

  135. Chase November 18th, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    It’s simple you move joba back to the 7th and 8th innings where he is dominant and clearly more comfortable. You take Phil Hughes and build a package around him and trade for halladay.

  136. Pat M. November 18th, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    Nick in SF…It was the coffee slurping people from Seattle that coined the Great Felix, or Felix the Great….Choke ?????

  137. no.27 November 18th, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    I don’t see why it’s such an idiotic nickname. Definitely not something to get so worked up over.

  138. Nick in SF November 18th, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    Seattle: good for coffee, micro brews, grunge music, foul weather gear, monopolostic operating systems, bad for baseball nicknames?

  139. Rich in NJ November 18th, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    From the NYT article that was linked:

    “The time you start thinking you have enough pitching, that’s when problems start,” Cashman said. “I don’t think you ever have enough pitching.”

    Obviously, the Yankees want top tier pitching and Halladay, maybe along with Lackey, who isn’t as good, are probably the only starters available because the Mariners probably won’t move King Felix.

    As for it being a stupid nickame, bfd, that’s what’s he’s called.

  140. GreenBeret7 November 18th, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    Pat M.
    November 18th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
    GB, The King moniker is typical of today’s fans…They use the terms ” Great, Superstar, Choke etc.” very loosely….I mean He has a great deal of upside and potential, but he’s not Vida Blue …..

    ————————————————————

    I’d rather wait before I would hang a nickname like that on a kid. It’s stuff like that, that has ruined good young players, believing the media and trying to live up to the expectations of the fans. NYY history is full of players like that. It’s just not that easy, which is why players like Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Jeter and Rodriguez are so rare. a team that has two players that overlap another’s like DiMaggio and Mantle is a very rare treat, but, when you have two players like Ruth/Gehrig and Jeter/Rodriguez is even moreso. Those are players that deserve those sorts of nicknames. Players like griffey, Mays, Aaron, Koufax, etc. deserve it after years of unreal seasons….not players coming out of the minors with that nickname.

    I stop to wonder what the 70s and 80s might have looked like if Vida Blue had been allowed to come to NY in that cash deal. I can’t imagine that the Rudi/Fingers deal to Boston would have changed much, though. They were players that Boston already had at that time. Guidry, John and Blue in the same rotation?

  141. Rich in NJ November 18th, 2009 at 11:55 pm

    Chase

    It’s simple you move joba back to the 7th and 8th innings where he is dominant and clearly more comfortable. You take Phil Hughes and build a package around him and trade for halladay.
    __

    Mike Francesa, is that you?

  142. Betsy November 18th, 2009 at 11:56 pm

    Hey, it’s my opinion – I think it’s a dumb nickname. King? It’s no skin off my back – I never think about the guy.

  143. Nick in SF November 18th, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    “Definitely not something to get so worked up over”

    How dare you.

  144. Jeremy November 18th, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    Chase
    Joba wasn’t good in the rotation or the pen this year. Lets face facts people ! After Joba went down with the shoulder injury, and the lack of prep. in the offseason Joba got worse. In 2008 he was great out of the pen and the rotation before the injury, even in the rotation he was throwing 95 + where in one game he shut out the Red Sox at Fenway against Beckett. It’s not the pen or the rotation, it’s the lack of prep. by Joba.

  145. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 18th, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    JOOBAAAH CHAMBERLAIN IS NOT A STARTING PITCHAAA!

  146. Rich in NJ November 19th, 2009 at 12:00 am

    It takes a while to regain arm strength from a shoulder injury. Cone thinks it takes a full season. Joba will probably be what he was next season. btw, It’s not just velo. His slider hasn’t had the depth it once had.

  147. damon enjoy 27...think 28 November 19th, 2009 at 12:01 am

    Cashman won’t risk defending a WS title next year with a 3 man rotation.He will fix the pitching.
    I just read a SI article,where Selig sided with Scioscia about the many days off between games.He said he will tighten the postseason schedule.

  148. Jeremy November 19th, 2009 at 12:04 am

    GreenBeret7
    I’m not a troll so what are you talking about ?

    I’m always on this blog and I’ve been a yankee fan my whole life, so please tell me how I’m a troll ?

    repost

  149. no.27 November 19th, 2009 at 12:05 am

    “Cashman won’t risk defending a WS title next year with a 3 man rotation.He will fix the pitching.”

    Thank god. I don’t think I can watch another season where the Yankees don’t win more than 103 games and a World Series.

  150. CompassRosy November 19th, 2009 at 12:05 am

    GreenBeret7 November 18th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
    Let me know when Hernandez has pitched long enough and well enough to earn a nickname like “King Felix”. In 4 full seasons, he’s had 2 seasons under .500 and three seasons of an ERA over 3.45 while pitching in an airport. Maybe he’ll earn a nickname like that some day, but, it ain’t happened yet. He’s had one outstanding season. The others have been decent to poor. Porcello is more deserving of being “King”.

    What’s kind of funny is…
    I seem to hear/read more people from outside Seattle refer to him as “King”. Around Seattle, he’s just plain “Feilx”.

    I’m not sure who gave him the nickname, but I do remember reading that it was a play on words of sorts regarding strikeouts ….
    “K’ing” morphed into “King”

    In any case, here’s hoping he’ll have many more chances to prove he is CY King right here in the great northwest…

    http://compassrosy.blogspot.co.....feilx.html

    Of all the stars to leave here – Felix’s departure would hurt the most.

  151. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) November 19th, 2009 at 12:06 am

    Joba Chamberlain pitched a grand total of 88 innings in the minor leagues.

    King Felix had 306 innings in the minors.

    Zack Grienke: 285 innings in the minors

    Joba still has a ton to learn as a pitcher. People are just so impatient because he zoomed through the minors in less than a year.

  152. nature boy November 19th, 2009 at 12:07 am

    don’t know if anyone has posted this yet, but si.com has put up a preview of the world series film and it looks awesome: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....?eref=sihp

  153. GreenBeret7 November 19th, 2009 at 12:09 am

    Going back to the previous thread and the discussion of the best of the Goldie Hawn movies, nobody mentioned “Death Becomes Her” with Meryl Streep and Bruce Willis, or, her best, “The Duchess and The Dirtwater Fox”, with George Segal. Hawn sings a song called “Please Don’t Touch Me Plums”.

  154. Rich in NJ November 19th, 2009 at 12:12 am

    I actually hope the King finishes his career with the Mariners, but if they insist on trading him…

  155. Jeremy November 19th, 2009 at 12:12 am

    GreenBeret7
    Why won’t you answer the question ? Since you love to call people out on this blog.

  156. Pat M. November 19th, 2009 at 12:27 am

    GB, Had Bowie K. not nixed that deal ( put Finley out of bussiness ) , Vida Blue would have joined Catfish & Ed Figereou as well……You made a great point about the acculades the media / fans toss around well before thy’re actually earned…….Man, Audrey Hepburn was one beautiful Lady….Breakfast @ Tiffany’s is on……Stunningly beautiful…The Jackie Kennedy influence is in full effect in the film…..I was about 10 when it was released..I remember watching i from the back of our Ford Country Squire Station Wagon @ The Elmsford Drive-in

  157. Phil November 19th, 2009 at 12:28 am

    Halladay didn’t settle in till he was 25. Guidry till 26 and on and on.

    And Foul Play and Cactus Lily are Goldie’s best flicks.

  158. Zak November 19th, 2009 at 12:33 am

    I would trade them the following for Halladay:

    Melky Cabrera
    Joba Chamberlain
    Phil Hughes
    Ian Kennedy
    Austin Jackson

    Fair?

  159. MJR (Steve Phillips groped me) November 19th, 2009 at 12:34 am

    agreed on the Jays needing to get the most of Roy while they can. let’s be realistic here….the Jays know they’re not going anywhere with/without Roy anyways right? might as well trade and rebuild (again).

  160. Anthony November 19th, 2009 at 12:35 am

    HEYYA,

    without a doubt we will need to give him an extension. my thinking in giving up joba, ipk, and montero is that they r all expendable. outside of joba neither will really help the team in the future. and even joba’s future is uncertain. They still haven’t told him his role yet for next year.

  161. Pat M. November 19th, 2009 at 12:35 am

    Jeremy, I think and I hope that Cashman made it a point to Joba that this offseason will be different than last winter’s offseason…..I still think that Hughes , Joba & Kennedy are the real deal…..Remember Kennedy was the most polished of the three and had a great September callup in 07…They certainly were not ready for Prime Time in 08 and then ijuries took there toll……I would be happy with Edwin Jackson joining the Rotation and then Hughes takes over for Pettite in 2010……..

  162. Jeremy November 19th, 2009 at 12:35 am

    Pat M.
    Hey Pat M. do you think that Cashman will move on Ben Sheets than a Halladay or Lackey ?

  163. Jeremy November 19th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    Pat M.

    I agree. At first I thought that getting Lackey was a good idea but then I thought that it would be too much in the long term. I think Hughes and Joba will improve next season. And picking up Sheets could be a nice low risk/high reward pick up.

  164. GreenBeret7 November 19th, 2009 at 12:39 am

    Pat M.
    November 19th, 2009 at 12:27 am
    GB, Had Bowie K. not nixed that deal ( put Finley out of bussiness ) , Vida Blue would have joined Catfish & Ed Figereou as well……You made a great point about the acculades the media / fans toss around well before thy’re actually earned…….Man, Audrey Hepburn was one beautiful Lady….Breakfast @ Tiffany’s is on……Stunningly beautiful…The Jackie Kennedy influence is in full effect in the film…..I was about 10 when it was released..I remember watching i from the back of our Ford Country Squire Station Wagon @ The Elmsford Drive-in

    ————————————————————

    Ford Country Squire wagons. Loved that wood grained sides that faded or peeled after 2 years. My dad had this ’57 Nomad wagon with a 327 in it. That thing would scream. Our neighbor would loan his Saab to my dad and the guy would take the Nomad out on the bypass with a 5 mile straight away and drag race. Claims he was only beaten once….by a Michigan State Trooper driving a Dodge interceptor. No doubt about the beauty of Hepburn. Speaking of Jackie keenedy…hard to believe that Sunday will be 46 years already.

  165. Phil November 19th, 2009 at 12:40 am

    Zak that would be an egregious overpay.

  166. Phil November 19th, 2009 at 12:41 am

    They are not giving up Montero. They believe he is their best power prospect since Mickey Mantle.

  167. Pinstripes November 19th, 2009 at 12:45 am

    A lot of Yankee fans think CC Sabathia should have gotten more Cy Young consideration. Check out these visuals comparing the 2009 seasons of Sabathia, Hernandez, and Greinke. It’s pretty obvious where CC stands from looking at these.

    http://visualbaseball.wordpress.com

  168. GreenBeret7 November 19th, 2009 at 12:47 am

    NYY has had hopes for two other big time power prospects in the past that some people compared to Mantle. Tony solita and Ruben Rivera. The difference between them and Montero is completely different. Montero hits for high average and doesn’t strike out. Given that, any comparisons between him and Mantle are ridiculous.

  169. Rich in NJ November 19th, 2009 at 12:48 am

    Yeah, Mantle was a better fielder.

  170. pat November 19th, 2009 at 12:50 am

    One of the benefits of being manager of the year….the commissioner listens to you.

    “As far as the playoff schedule is concerned, Selig was straightforward.

    “Oh, we’re going to change it for next year,” he told the media after a full day of committee meetings had come to an end. “It’s tough, but I don’t disagree with [Angels manager] Mike Scioscia. I think he was right. We’re going to tighten it up.”

    Selig said he’d have a new plan to present to the owners by the spring.

    Scioscia complained about the off-days in the current postseason schedule during his club’s loss to the eventual World Series-winning Yankees in a six-game American League Championship Series that took nine days to play. The two teams also had four days off between the first and second rounds after sweeping their respective AL Division Series.

    The Yankees played 15 games in 31 days to win their 27th World Series. That’s in stark contrast to the everyday pace of the 162-game regular season.

    Selig said he spoke to Scioscia on the telephone immediately after the ALCS and promised some changes.”

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb

  171. Pat M. November 19th, 2009 at 12:51 am

    Jeremy, Earlier Joe from Long Island brought up Ben Sheets…I have to agree with him, he could be the signing of the offseason…..Cashman has several ways to upgrade the rotation…..I think it’s all about how he goes about fixing the OF…..I do think he’ll sign one big ticket player, either Holliday or Lackey / Halliday trade…..I would prefer Granderson & Jackson & then consider Matt Holliday……One thing is for certain, he’ll not lose close to 60 hr’s this off season & lose protection for Alex as well…..Resigning Pettite & Matsui is a must…Damon can walk…

  172. Art?rs Irbe November 19th, 2009 at 12:52 am

    Jeremy,
    it seems like every night, Greenberet7 is arguing with someone and calling someone names. When Greenberet7 gets called out for his lack of logic, Greenberet7 responds by calling one a “troll” or “stupid”. Greenberet7 does not understand that a nickname such as “King Felix” is meant as an affectionate term for admirers or fans of the pitcher.

  173. Jeremy November 19th, 2009 at 12:57 am

    Pat M.
    Everything you said sounds right to me. Cashman has made some ver prudent moves over the past few years and I expect the same.

  174. Pat M. November 19th, 2009 at 12:58 am

    gb, Seems like you’re sporting a bullseye on your back tonight old buddy…..

  175. GreenBeret7 November 19th, 2009 at 12:58 am

    PAT M, have you been to any of the AFL games this fall? I’m trying to figure out what the deal is with Curtis. He’s never shown that sort of bat control and power before. I realize that it’s purely a hitter’s league but, .397 and 5 homers in less than 80 at bats is nothing to scoff at. What’s your opinion of him?

  176. Jeremy November 19th, 2009 at 12:59 am

    Art?rs Irbe

    Yeah I didn’t say anything offensive to GreenBeret7. I just made a comment, and then he calls me a troll. LOL !

    Then when I call him out on it he runs away. He seems very bitter.

  177. GreenBeret7 November 19th, 2009 at 1:00 am

    Art?rs Irbe
    November 19th, 2009 at 12:52 am
    Jeremy,
    it seems like every night, Greenberet7 is arguing with someone and calling someone names. When Greenberet7 gets called out for his lack of logic, Greenberet7 responds by calling one a “troll” or “stupid”. Greenberet7 does not understand that a nickname such as “King Felix” is meant as an affectionate term for admirers or fans of the pitcher.

    ————————————————————

    Not enough nerve to post under your regular name? what is this, now? About 10-12 names?

  178. GreenBeret7 November 19th, 2009 at 1:02 am

    Pat M.
    November 19th, 2009 at 12:58 am
    gb, Seems like you’re sporting a bullseye on your back tonight old buddy…..

    ————————————————————

    I don’t get concerned over twits…twits that change names 2-3 times a night to make people think that someone agrees with them.

  179. Phil November 19th, 2009 at 1:07 am

    GB7,

    Why so many fights? Whenever I feel it gets too stupid around here, I just hit other sites. And you can actually now tell when I think things are too stupid around here:)

    This should be a fun offseason as we bask in our first championship in too long and can afford to kick back and be patient.

    Enjoy it.

    Phil

  180. Jeremy November 19th, 2009 at 1:08 am

    GreenBeret7

    Then why do you think that I’m a troll since I’ve been on this blog for a while ?

    Why won’t you answer the question ?

  181. Pat M. November 19th, 2009 at 1:13 am

    GB, I’ve only seen a few games that the MLB Network aired, but Curtis has had an eye opening month or so…..I guess we’ll see how it translates come Spring…You have to think he’ll be in camp early February…..I stated that I believe that Cashamn will land a big fish this winter….Holliday is my guess, if they let Matsui walk, as someone has to protect Alex…..I also hope for Granderson & Edwin Jackson….

  182. ckc November 19th, 2009 at 1:18 am

    “If Halladay were traded to the Red Sox straight up for Rocco Baldelli…”

    Ummm…Rocco Baldelli is a free agent, so this makes no sense.

  183. samdy s November 19th, 2009 at 1:38 am

    ” it just so happens his best friend in on the Yankees and willing to recruit. ”

    I don’t know where you guys dream this stuff up, but AJ is not Halladay’s best friend. Halladay even gave a lengthy interview about the difference between friends and teammates. His only “friend” on the Jays was NOT AJ.

    I don’t know why yankee fans are so worried about giving up some prospects to get Halladay. Just go out and buy some more superstars.

  184. GreenBeret7 November 19th, 2009 at 1:41 am

    Pat M.
    November 19th, 2009 at 1:13 am
    GB, I’ve only seen a few games that the MLB Network aired, but Curtis has had an eye opening month or so…..I guess we’ll see how it translates come Spring…You have to think he’ll be in camp early February…..I stated that I believe that Cashamn will land a big fish this winter….Holliday is my guess, if they let Matsui walk, as someone has to protect Alex…..I also hope for Granderson & Edwin Jackson….

    ————————————————————

    I agree that of the two (Damon and Matsui), Matsui is the more needed bat. Damon’s skill sets, though diminishing, is still good enough to resign, but, perhaps easier to replace. Somebody had ealier posted something about NYY getting upwards of $15 mil from Japanese based income. not sure how close that is, but, given his production and that income, Matsui more than pays for himself…..and more. That additional income would also cover the cost of a Brian Bruney and the rest of the bullpen, less, Rivera and Marte.

    I’m with you on getting Granderson and Edwin jackson, but, I’d still like to see them keep Austin Jackson, Romine, Laird, Banuelos along with at least Hughes. Not sure of the cost, but, the more bad contracts NYY takes on, the lower the talent losses will be. I’d still take Inge and flip him and some money for prospects to move for a Doumit or Halladay type.

  185. Pat M. November 19th, 2009 at 1:51 am

    GB. Seems like Inge is reportedly is for the taking as well…..I know you’ve alwyas liked him, and he certainly had a great season…..I wrote earlier that a Japanese paper ( sanspo.com ) reports that if Matsui leaves the Yanks, they lose 15 million…..It’s writen it Japanese so I don’t know how that all works out…..He’s needed to cober Alex’s back in the lineup….Unless they sign Holliday….

  186. Jeremy November 19th, 2009 at 1:56 am

    GreenBeret7
    I’m sorry but your full of it !

    You come on here and call me names but when I ask you a basic question you act like a coward and run away. What is your deal ? I never said a bad thing about you before.

  187. Pat M. November 19th, 2009 at 2:00 am

    Jeremy, Idon’t think GB was referring to you…..Move on

  188. GreenBeret7 November 19th, 2009 at 2:20 am

    Pat M.
    November 19th, 2009 at 1:51 am
    GB. Seems like Inge is reportedly is for the taking as well…..I know you’ve alwyas liked him, and he certainly had a great season…..I wrote earlier that a Japanese paper ( sanspo.com ) reports that if Matsui leaves the Yanks, they lose 15 million…..It’s writen it Japanese so I don’t know how that all works out…..He’s needed to cober Alex’s back in the lineup….Unless they sign Holliday….

    ————————————————————

    Matt Holliday would be fine at a reasonable contract. NYY could field a decent to good outfield of Swisher, holliday and Cabrera. Keep Gardner around to do what he did in 2009, pinch run, fill in. I just don’t see him as more than that, but, also don’t see a real trade market for him, either. I do believe he’d make a better #4 outfielder than Cabrera, though. Would Detroit take Cabrera as part of the trade package? I’d think so, but, not sure.

    A deal with Cabrera or Gardner, Eduardo Nunez or Pena, Cervelli, McAllister, Coke or Dunn, Melancon, Chamberlain or Noesi and Nova in separate deals for the three and add cash to each deal to get past the Selig edict of $1 mil limit on cash transfers without permission may do it, though. I’d even include both Coke and Dunn and bring Wilkin DeLaRosa up to replace them as the 2nd bullpen lefty in a Detroit swap for Jackson, Granderson and Inge.

    Detroit is extremely thin on the farm and low on cash. I’d even promise to buy more Little Caesar’s Pizza to help out.

  189. asdf November 19th, 2009 at 2:56 am

    “I rather trade Hughes than Chamberlain. Joba has more talent than Hughes he will be the better pitcher.”

    Finally someone with some common sense on this blog. Everyone just loves to hate on Joba and say OMG we can’t trust him as a starter or as the 8th inning set up man.

    He’s one of the best pitching talents in the league right now and he has the potential to develop into a Halladay (in name, their pitching styles are totally different). And he’s 23.

  190. gianthinker November 19th, 2009 at 3:28 am

    Like I said last off-season, SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!

  191. PittsburghYankeeFan November 19th, 2009 at 7:19 am

    OK.

    You have held on to your two best young pitchers going on 4 years now.

    Suddenly you trade one of them for a year (that’s right, ONE YEAR) of Roy Halliday? Theo, the supposed genius, almost did that with Bucholtz for 18 months of Halliday.

    If I’m Roy, I go FA after 2010. Let the market decide my value.

  192. blake November 19th, 2009 at 7:26 am

    I disagree that Joba is more talentd than Hughes. Joba throws slightly harder than Hughes (or used to) but that doesn’t neccessarily mean he he’s more talented. There is a reason Phil was the top pitching prospect in baseball a couple yrs ago and joba virtually came out of nowhere.

  193. blake November 19th, 2009 at 7:29 am

    The yankees wouldn’t make a deal for halladay unless they could negociate an extension first. It wouldn’t be for one year.

  194. Patrick from CT November 19th, 2009 at 7:40 am

    If Doc was a FA, I’d stay go spend what ever it takes; but he’s not.
    The Yankees just won it all and I’m not giving up Joba or Phil along with 2 other good prospects and then have to sign the guy for another 100+mil.

    Come on Cash, you’ve been making all the right calls lately.

    Bring Andy back or bring in another FA pitcher. I say hord all of our good young pitchers you can! If healthy, Joba and Phil should start the season in the rotation. IMHO they both contributed to the WS run in a big way.

    The Yankees should not mortgage the farm at this point in time.
    Did Andy file to be a FA yet?

  195. PittsburghYankeeFan November 19th, 2009 at 7:43 am

    Roy Halliday, who holds all the cards, decides where he goes. Look at CC. He went to the Brewers without an extension.

    Yankees can sign Halliday in 2011. Why give up a lot now, for one year.

  196. blake November 19th, 2009 at 7:46 am

    I don’t think the Yankees will trade for Halladay altough I wouldn’t shed any tears if they did. He’s basically the right handed version of CC. He’s a guy who eats innings,will rest the bullpen, and always wants the ball.. But as others have said Cashman has always has an aversion to paying twice for players (prospects and money) which is smart.

    I’d be happy with bringing Andy back and taking a gamble with sheets

  197. Mike RI November 19th, 2009 at 7:51 am

    Imagine CC and Doc as your one two punch.

  198. SJ44 November 19th, 2009 at 7:52 am

    Depends on what Halladay wants to do. If he gives signals he’s willing to sign with a team that trades for him now, he is (in essence) a free agent.

    That would upgrade whatever offers are there for him.

    If he is non-commital about signing, the offers probably won’t rise to the level of being good enough for the Jays to deal him. The Yankees for example, certainly won’t trade for him as a one year rental.

    The Yankees aren’t going to “mortgage the farm” for anybody.

    However, you also can’t hold onto everybody either.

    Fans get caught up in every prospect and believe every one is the next, great star in NY. Fans of every team overvalue their own prospects. Look at the Red Sox and their fans for example.

    The good teams/organizations know their system better than anyone. They know the guys who have legs (to make it to the big leagues) and the guys who are good enough to get there but not good enough to stay there.

    The Yankees have the depth in the system to absorb a big deal this winter if they so choose.

    Just a question of what they see as a priority this winter.

  199. Patrick from CT November 19th, 2009 at 7:54 am

    I am totally fine with Swish and Melky in the starting OF and Gardy off the bench. If Damon comes back he’s really only a part timer in the OF and will be the DH 50%.
    If AJax is not ready then they need to make a trade for anther. No way I’d sign any FA outfielders to a long term deal.
    If Damon really want to come back to the Yankees it’s going to be on a short term deal; 2 years max.
    Sui comes back if Damon does not.

  200. SJ44 November 19th, 2009 at 8:03 am

    The beauty of the Yankees situation this winter is that they are dealing from a position of strength.

    They are World Champions, have the bulk of that team back, have a deep farm system and no “must have” needs.

    That gives them great flexibility as to what they can do this winter.

    Its the first time in a long, long time the Yankees have been in this position.

  201. sunny615 November 19th, 2009 at 8:12 am

    Assuming the Phil don’t sign Cliff Lee to an extension, you have the same scenario that you had essentially two winters ago… trade for a good but older pitcher now for prospects AND cash, or wait one year to get a younger and just as good pitcher for JUST cash. I’m betting Cash waits.

  202. Anthony November 19th, 2009 at 8:13 am

    i think the yankees have a great starting rotation and with ching ming wang coming back i think the yankees should go get a cheap free agent pitcher like rich harden who still good. cc,aj,wang,pettite,harden!!!!!. they should not trade phill hughes or joba they would be both better off in the bullpen. halliday is 33 and isnt getting any beter. in outfield i think the yankees should try to trade for granderson by giving up a couple or few triple a guys or instead just go out and buy holliday

  203. Patrick from CT November 19th, 2009 at 8:14 am

    SJ44
    November 19th, 2009 at 8:03 am
    The beauty of the Yankees situation this winter is that they are dealing from a position of strength.

    They are World Champions, have the bulk of that team back, have a deep farm system and no “must have” needs.

    That gives them great flexibility as to what they can do this winter.

    Its the first time in a long, long time the Yankees have been in this position.

    ========================================================

    Yup, and this is why I see no need for them to sign anyone to a high $$ long term deal.
    The Yankee got lucky that all 3 deals worked last year.
    I’m not sold on Lacky being worth 100mil and the two big OF FAs are not even as good as Damon for one more year.
    Doc is worth 100mil, but I don’t want to see the Yankee give up Phil or Joba plus AJax and others to get him.

  204. Betsy November 19th, 2009 at 8:15 am

    Please……..Soscia is a freaking whiner. Now Bud is going to listen to him and “promise changes” because the Yankees won the WS…………..His name should be Bum, not Bud, Selig.

  205. sunny615 November 19th, 2009 at 8:18 am

    It’s not a given that Wang will be back with the Yankees. It’s generally accepted that the Yankees will non-tender him essentially making him a free agent. It doesn’t mean he’s going to re-sign with the Yankees. My bet is that another team offers him a better deal and his Yankees days are over. It’s unfortunate because I think Wang will make an excellent recovery and regain his former self.

  206. Betsy November 19th, 2009 at 8:18 am

    Ah, Samdy just popping up out of nowhere to tell us that Doc and AJ aren’t friends – hilarious. I hardly think that AJ and Doc are joined at the hip and I doubt AJ is doing any recruiting (and even if he was, I don’t think there’s any way Doc would force the Jays to trade him to NY), but to say they aren’t friends at all is just sort of silly.

  207. Betsy November 19th, 2009 at 8:22 am

    Any trade for Doc is going to start with Hughes, so that ends the conversation right there. I don’t think Cash has any intention of trading Hughese……..

    GB, I disagree with your trade proposal. I’m no fan of Melancon (that is, I want to see him prove himself – too many fans have hyped him to be more than he is), but you’re giving away a promising arm in addition to Coke. I’m no fan of Coke (completely unreliable), but our pen would be decimated. As it is, I don’t love it…….

  208. Betsy November 19th, 2009 at 8:30 am

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy

    Randy Wolf, Joel Piniero or Jarrod Washburn? This guy must be kidding…….

  209. randy l. November 19th, 2009 at 8:35 am

    “The Yankees have the depth in the system to absorb a big deal this winter if they so choose.

    Just a question of what they see as a priority this winter.”

    sj44-

    the yankees are in a very good position in relation to their competitors. i really meant it when i said during the playoffs that the yankees were a starter postseason team.

    barring unforeseen injuries, this team is only going to get better. the red sox plan of keeping free agents and large long term contracts to a minimum isn’t going to work well against this collection of quality young and veteran players that the yankees have.

    so i think what the yankees need to do this winter depends on how the red sox alter their previous plan. if the red sox sign bay they are just where they were. if they add halladay or make some other blockbuster move then they maybe change what the yankees need to do.

    of course, the yankees don’t want to just sit back and wait for the red sox to make a move , but at the same time depending on what the red sox do, the yankees will have different options to stay ahead of them.

    there’s no sense if the red sox or the rest of the league doesn’t improve to overspend to make a yankee team that wins by 15 games.

    i do expect the red sox to do something that will shake things up . i guess the question is just how good the yankees need to be to beat everyone else.

  210. SJ44 November 19th, 2009 at 8:40 am

    I think the Yankees want Roy Halladay and I think they know (through AJ) Doc would love to come to NY.

    The devil of course, is in the details.

    Folks complaining about his age crack me up. Andy is 37, 38 next season, and folks are BEGGING Cash to bring him back.

    Doc Halladay can pitch another 5-8 years, if he so chooses.

    Fluid mechanics, no arm issues, and he pitches to contact.

    Age is not going to be a consideration for the Yankees when it comes to Doc.

    Even if they gave up one of the young pitchers, whom there is no guarantee they will ever be as good as Doc is right now, it still puts the Yankees in great shape.

    CC, Doc, AJ, Andy and one of the one young guns, with all the other guys in reserve, plus a dominant bullpen.

    That’s one NASTY pitching staff!

  211. 86w183 November 19th, 2009 at 8:41 am

    The biggest mistake the Yankees could make would be to focus on countering whatever Bahston does. They need to focus on their own and only their own issues.

    That means first making decisions regarding Damon and Matsui while getting a decision from Pettite — I’m sure they want him to keep pitching.

    I’m find for checking on Halladay, but you have to know the price both in terms of his demands and the Blue Jays’. He’s 33 in the spring, to I’m not enamored with the idea of signing him for 2011-15 or whatever.

    An in-his-prime every day OF would be the best thing to add to the every day lineup and while I’m a Granderson fan Andre Ethier is the guy I think would be unreal in this ballpark. Of course the price could be very steep (Cano?).

    But SJ is absolutely right in that the Yankees don’t HAVE to do anything except on their terms. If all FA leave and no one joins the team they still have a post-season contender… albeit a flawed one.

  212. Betsy November 19th, 2009 at 8:44 am

    SJ, the Yankees don’t have to give up a boatload of prospects (or even just 2 or 3) for Andy…plus sign him. That’s committing too many years and players. It’s easy to say Doc could pitch another 5-8 years, but how effectively? No one really knows – it’s all just speculation.

    I really don’t know how close AJ and Doc are, but if he really wants to come to NY (no idea if that’s true), he will force the Jays hand. He’s not that type of guy – he didn’t do it last year, I doubt he would do it this year.

    IMO, this is all just fans fantasizing about getting every great player that is available.

  213. MaineYankee November 19th, 2009 at 8:44 am

    randy

    The RS getting Halliday would be similar to the Yankees getting Santana 2 yrs ago.

    It will help them but they have other issues to adress such as age and health.

    They seem to be where the Yankees were but without help in the farm to look forward to.

  214. 86w183 November 19th, 2009 at 8:47 am

    SJ, what would you consider a reasonable offer for Doc in terms of personnel?

    Would McAllister, Robertson or Melancon and Romine do it? Would you do that?

    I’d love to keep Hughes, Joba and Montero out of any package.

  215. 86w183 November 19th, 2009 at 8:50 am

    Betsy you don’t know that Doc didn’t tell the Jays Yankees or nothing. You don’t know if he gave them any list of acceptable destinations. No one does except Doc and JP Ricciardi.

    If you want guarantees don’t talk baseball because there’s no such thing in competitive sports.

    This is not like the Santana situation because the Yankees system is much deeper and the need is not as great so Cashman can make an excellent deal or walk away.

    Pettite’s decision is still the key and the sooner he makes it the better. Of course, he may have already told the Yankees his intentions, who knows?

  216. blake November 19th, 2009 at 8:55 am

    I doubt the jays would do a deal if it didn’t involve one of joba , Hughes , or montero because without those guys in the deal the red six or another team can beat the offer.
    I’d put joba in the deal but not the other two. My reasoning isn’t that I don’t think joba is talent

  217. randy l. November 19th, 2009 at 8:55 am

    maine yankee-

    you and i probably follow the red sox more than the average yankee fan simply because we get nesn and are surrounded by red sox nation.

    i really think red sox management started believing that they were something special and could run out a plan that was based on their belief that all players are replaceable.

    cashman really blew this idea out of the water when he spent money the red sox didn’t think he’d spend on teixeira.

    i really think the red sox are banging their head against the wall right now trying to figure out what to do.

    i expect they will come up with that the rules need to be changed to make it easier for them to compete :)

  218. murphydog November 19th, 2009 at 8:59 am

    After all the disparaging talk about Minka Kelly yesterday, I don’t think it’s possible for her to be any cuter.

    http://www.nypost.com/Page/nyp....._minka.xml

  219. SJ44 November 19th, 2009 at 9:00 am

    Betsy,

    What guarantee is there any of the young players will amount to anything? None.

    We all love to hear about prospects. However, when you are a GM of a team, you ALWAYS deal for knowns if the opportunity arises.

    Doc Halladay is a borderline HOF pitcher at this point in his career. He’s a known.

    Young arms are unknowns. Toronto, rebuilding again, can afford to take a chance on unknowns. The Yankees on the other hands, prefer knowns.

    86,

    I think one of the young catchers, Romine, Cervelli or Montero, would have to go in the deal. I’m thinking definitely McAllister and one of either Robertson or Melancon.

    If you have say, Melancon, Romine, and McAllister in the deal, I would think Joba or Hughes would have to be the 4th piece to make the deal. Perhaps the Yankees get Brandon League (whom they like) back with Doc to round out the deal. He would be a useful bullpen arm.

    It would take though roughly that combination of players to get something done.

    It would be next to impossible to acquire him without giving up one of Joba, Hughes or Montero. I think Montero is off limits. I do think they can absorb trading either Hughes or Joba because they would be getting a guy like Doc back in return.

    Just a question of what the other teams (ie: the Red Sox) can put on the table for Doc.

    Despite some of the media panting about the Sox system, they don’t have the depth of close to the majors players the Yankees have right now. That could hurt them when it comes to making this deal.

    Provided of course, they get a window to negotiate a long term deal with Doc. If they don’t get the window, you don’t do the deal.

  220. MaineYankee November 19th, 2009 at 9:04 am

    randy

    Yes, up here it is RS all the time.

    I think the RS are trying to use the Patriots model and it’s not working.

    I think it will take several yrs to catch up unless they spend the big dollars like the Yankees did last year.

    They have some contracts that are going to hamstring them for the next several yrs.

  221. SJ44 November 19th, 2009 at 9:07 am

    Randy,

    That’s exactly what happened with the Red Sox. They started to believe their own “genius front office” press clippings and it did affect the direction of their franchise.

    They lost Mark Teixeira over Larry Luchhino’s big mouth and 7 million dollars. Chump change for a major market franchise.

    That decision is going to haunt them for years.

    Their farm system is barren with prospects at the AAA level and may only have 1-2 prospects at the AA level.

    Sure, they can include Clay Buchholz in a Doc deal. If the Yankees put Hughes or Chamberlain on the table, that trumps them and we aren’t even talking about the other players in a deal.

    Why do you think Gammons is now hyping the Red Sox catching prospects? Its because he wants to blunt the Yankees in that area because he knows they are so deep at catcher, the Jays could pluck a kid like Romine in a Doc deal and the Yankees wouldn’t miss a beat.

    The Sox have some glaring needs and they only have bullets for one big deal.

    If they get Doc, they can’t go after Adrian Gonzalez. If they get Gonzalez, they can’t go after Doc.

    They have to make a determination on Beckett and whether or not to re-sign him. If they get Doc, Beckett isn’t taking a paycut to stay in Boston.

    They are in a bit of a box right now.

    Will be interesting to see how the “genius” front office handles this winter.

  222. 108 stitches November 19th, 2009 at 9:28 am

    The only way Boston can be in the Halladay mix is to have Papelbon as the front man in a deal. They otherwise have little to offer from their farm system considered to be major league ready or close.
    The Yankee can offer Toronto what it needs but also need the 72-hour window to negotiate a new deal to lock up Halladay for the last big contract of his career. No rental is acceptable then see him walk but Halladay realizes his best chance at championships lies in New York to put the finishing touches on his career.
    No doubt Cashman and his scouting group are pondering over which players to offer Toronto and which are considered hands off.
    Waiting until the 7/31 deadline or free agency is not the answer.
    Halladay right out of the gate for 2010 sees the Yankees get that much more of him. Make the push at the winter meetings in December in Indianapolis.
    Meantime there’s free agency business to handle.

  223. Neil November 19th, 2009 at 9:43 am

    I agree with SJ. With Boston, it’s either Adrian Gonzales or Halladay. They don’t have the resources to do both. The underlying factor is Beckett who would not be able to get matching salary with Halladay and will not give a hometown discount to stay in Boston. He’s a Texas guy and may have his eyes on the Rangers after 2010.
    Regardless of what move they make will sap their farm system for a short term fix and force the using of talent before they’re ready.
    They’ve painted themselves into a corner and not signing Teixeira hurt the most.

  224. 86w183 November 19th, 2009 at 9:49 am

    I would assume a Halladay acquisition would ensure either Matsui or Damon does not come back and the replacement would either be a journeyman FA or an in-house option. That, of course also assume Pettite returns.

    A rotation of CC, Doc, AJ, Pettite and anyone else on the planet would be a terrific rotation.

  225. Just call me Mr. Clutch November 19th, 2009 at 9:51 am

    108 Stictches …

    I don’t understand how Papelbon being in the Red Sox offer all that great for Toronto. He is coming up on his FA period and has talked about how he thinks he deserves Mariano money. Doesn’t that put them in almost the same boat as they are now with Halladay, only worse in that he is a closer and not a starter?

    I know they will be shopping Buchholz, but I don’t think the RS or the league find him as good as the hype that Gammons puts out on him. He seems best with limited exposure. With Papelbon getting near to the end of his contract I don’t really see the sox dealing Bard.

  226. Brad November 19th, 2009 at 10:00 am

    f I were going to trade the prospects people are naming, I would go after Felix or Zack, not Halladay. n my opinioin, the best play would be to go after Greinke. He is under control for 3 more years at a reasonable price, there are already rumblings in KC that he will leave after this contract, and the Royals need to fill a lot of holes. The Yankees can offer a package of quantity and quality in return. IN this case, I would give up Hughes and Jackson as part of the package.

  227. Brad November 19th, 2009 at 10:03 am

    86w183 November 19th, 2009 at 9:49 am

    A rotation of CC, Doc, AJ, Pettite and anyone else on the planet would be a terrific rotation.
    ============================
    A rotation of CC, Greinke, AJ, Andy, and Joba would be even better. During play-offs, Joba moves to set up role again.

  228. champ809 November 19th, 2009 at 10:04 am

    here are some FACTS for all of “the Joba’s never going to be anything fans” out there that want to dump him for Halladay the greatest pitcher of all time

    Roy Halladays stats for his first 3 yrs(ages 21-25) in the league;

    49starts/336 1/3innings/369hits allowed/235strikeouts/208earned runs/38hrs allowed/18wins 17losses/5.58era

    Joba’s line for ages 21-24 in the league;

    43starts/281 2/3innings/266hits allowed/285strikeouts/128earned runs/27hrs allowes/15wins 9losses/3.61era

    the point being that Joba is off to a much better start to his career, was a much better,more effective pitcher than Halladay at equal points of his career,has a better repertoire of pitches than Halladay has even today and if given the CHANCE TO CONTINUE to develop has definitely shown that he has the ability to become the front line starter that his capabilities suggest he will be. In fact last season-his 1st season as a full time major league starter- he was in the top 10 in era in the league despite his inconsistencies before the “Joba Rules” program kicked in.
    If left alone next season i think that he’ll be a better pitcher than Burnett for us which gets to the whole point that in Joba I may get better performance for 500k than I get from AJ for 18mil! the Yanks cannot pay CC 23mil,Halladay 23mil,AJ-18mil,Andy 12mil,Mo 15mil,Jeter 20mil,ARod 30mil,Tex 22mil,Posada 14mil,Holliday 20mil,Grandy 9mil,Cano 9mil,Swish 9mil et.. i mean it’s ridiculous now we’re talking a 250-275millin dollar payroll

    wake up people!!! let’s come to reality and more importantly pay attention to the facts. The Steinbrenners allowed Cashman to stretch the budget last season with the promise that he would lower payroll the following year,that’s the only reason Tex is at 1b in the Bronx and not in Boston! If you want Pettite back then forget about Halladay at least for ‘10.Next year when he’s a FA then maybe as all he costs is the $ and maybe then Pettite’s spot in the rotation is open. Boston will not be able to trade for Halladay,sign him to a $150mil,sign Beckett to $150mil sign VMart it can’t happen so it is most likely that Halladay will be available on the FA market next year. So hopefully Cash waits him out like he did with CC if we need him.

  229. SJ44 November 19th, 2009 at 10:15 am

    The “facts” aren’t apples to apples “facts”.

    The “fact” is, Roy Halladay completely changed the way he pitched by going to A Ball and reinventing himself mechanically.

    Also, its folly to compare pitchers at similar stages of their careers. Everybody develops differently.

    You have injury issues to consider. On and off field issues to consider. Mechanical issues, etc. All of that goes into the mix.

    Its never wise to compare pitchers at various stages of their respective careers because too many variables come into play.

    After 2+ seasons in the majors, Dwight Gooden was headed to the Hall of Fame. How did that turn out?

    All you can do is evaluate players with the facts you have in front of you at this time. Anything else is just wishing and is not based in any proven, long term theory of development.

  230. Nick D. November 19th, 2009 at 10:22 am

    I would put Cano and Chamberlain/Hughes and maybe one more mid level prospect in a deal for Halladay and then sign Figgins or Derosa for a couple years to play 2nd and then patch up 2nd base later on. I feel like the Jays would like a Cano/Hill middle of the infield.

    With Posada getting older I REALLY hope Montero wouldn’t be included in any trade. He sounds like a real nice heir to Posada.

  231. Brad November 19th, 2009 at 10:26 am

    champ809 November 19th, 2009 at 10:04 am

    I liked your post. Even if Halladay went to A-ball to rediscover himself, I think your point is that pitchers like Halladay, Santana, Greinke and others take time to mature. Rather than writing Joba off as a failure, I think it makes more sense to consider what went wrong?

    As you point out, he was in top 10 in era before the Joba rules kicked in, and he had some outstanding dominant starts where heis fastball was hitting 97 mph.

    So where did the velocity go after the Joba rules kicked in?

    I was reading a scouting blog where an expert did a comparison of Joba’s delivery at different points in the season. When Joba was on, he was aggressive–took the ball, got the sign, and threw. His delivery pace was much faster, resulting in greater velocity. When Joba started to get tentative, his delivery pace was slower and he went with more secondary pitches–resulting in him getting lit up/

    The scout/expert’s point was that the difference in performance was all a matter of mental approach. When Joba was aggressive, he is a dominant top-of-the-rotation starting pitcher.

    There is no way I trade him for anyone.

  232. champ809 November 19th, 2009 at 10:32 am

    Zak
    November 19th, 2009 at 12:33 am
    I would trade them the following for Halladay:

    Melky Cabrera
    Joba Chamberlain
    Phil Hughes
    Ian Kennedy
    Austin Jackson

    Fair?
    *****************************************************
    you would be fired the follwing year for just a complete lack of understanding of what your job is and completely ignoring the recommendations of the scouting department who warned against this trade.

    as you have just traded away your starting and future CF’ers away creating a bigger hole in your organization as well as your #4 and #5 starters or #4 starter and your dominant *th inning guy away leaving 2 empty spots in your rotation with your best in house candidates to fill those holes being Chad Gaudin and Sergio Mitre two pitchers who we tried to avoid like the plague on our way to our 27th championship which by the way is 2 weeks old. Leaving us with no alternative but to now sign Lackey for 90mil to be my #4 starter and Pettite to 14mil to be my #5 starter giving me 5 starting pitchers aged 30-38 making on avg 18million a year with 40yr old closer making 15mil.

    and now i turn to my lineup which is missing a LF’er,CF’er and DH and before I figure out who else I can buy to fill those holes I realize you’ve got me committed to $223million in salaries when your directive was to lower payroll….

  233. champ809 November 19th, 2009 at 10:43 am

    Brad
    withregards to Joba’s velocity most off that is attributed to Joba throwing fewer 4seamers and more 2seamers as Joba himself said.
    as a reliever Joba was pretty much stictly 4seamer/slider pitcher. his 4seamer is anywhere from 95-100 and sits 96-97

    as a starter Joba was throwing mostly 2seamers in an effort to pitch to contact,keep his pitch count down and go deeper into games.That’s not his mentality as a pitcher and that is the battle between him and Girardi/Eiland…i remember reading a comment by Eiland who i like as a coach where he said he doesn’t like to see a lot of strikeouts as it’s not an “efficient way to pitch” and i’m almost certain that was after the Boston game where Joba k’d 12 in 5innings.

    after the ASB when Joba had those 3starts where he looked like the best pitcher in the league he said the difference was he went back to just being he was and going more to the 4seam/slider/change combo and fewer 2seamers and that combo i think suits his “attack the hitter” mentality more.

  234. Brad November 19th, 2009 at 10:57 am

    Champ–

    I think the scout and you are saying the same thing. He was not pitching like he normally would. While throwing two seamers, he slowed down his delivery. Per you point of pitching to contact, he also used more slaw curves, and tried to pitch to the black–often leaving him behind in the count. This is one case where Eiland should adapt and leave the pitcher alone

  235. Brad November 19th, 2009 at 10:59 am

    Eiland had terrible stuff as a pitcher, and had to resort to tricks when pitching to contact. Joba can blow away hitters. It is like Ted Williams trying to teach hitters based on the belief that everyone was like him.

    Not every pitcher is Dave Eiland. He needs to remember the old adage “No man is an Eiland.”

  236. champ809 November 19th, 2009 at 11:00 am

    SJ44
    November 19th, 2009 at 10:15 am
    The “facts” aren’t apples to apples “facts”.

    The “fact” is, Roy Halladay completely changed the way he pitched by going to A Ball and reinventing himself mechanically.
    ********************************************************

    that is exactly the point here guy…Halladay was given the oppurtunity to DEVELOP his game and he BECAME what he is. Halladay also had moer development time in the minors than Joba who blew through the minors in 4months because he sheer ability was off the charts!
    Any and all pitchers can fall to injury as the act of pitching is physically somewhat unnatural so that means nothing to me. In fact Halladay has missed significant time in his career.
    And of the field issues are not factors that can be quantified and used in long term theory of development analysis either.
    Is Joba the complete polished pitcher that Halladay is today? Of course not! But the question that Cashman’s is asking him self is:
    is a 24yr old supremely more talented Joba Chamberlain who will represent maybe $25mill in salary costs over the next 5yrs a better investment than a 33yr old Hallady who will cost $100million more over that same time frame given the current and projected makeup of my roster including salary commitments?
    is the projected difference in performance between the 2players worth the extreme difference in salary to me?

  237. 86w183 November 19th, 2009 at 11:03 am

    Grienke isn’t going anywhere. It’s absurd to think otherwise and he has even said publicly he didn’t think he could play in NYC. The guy has a social anxiety disorder and the bright lights would be too much.

    I don’t see a burning “need” for Halladay which is why I’d only favor a trade that kept Hughes, Joba and Montero in the organization. If that’s a deal breaker, move on. The Yanks did nicely without “Doc” in 2009 as I recall. There is absolutely no urgency to make a deal that isn’t favorable at every level.

    The Blue Jays have a great 2B in Aaron Hill who cannot play SS, why would they want Cano and his $$$. that’s just goofy.

  238. Brad November 19th, 2009 at 11:19 am

    86w183 November 19th, 2009 at 11:03 am

    Grienke isn’t going anywhere.
    ================================
    My point was IF we were going to give up all the talent mentioned, I wouldn’t go after a 33 year old who needs to be redigned for 4 or 5 years at $100M. I would instead target a guy like Greinke.

    Felix isn’t going anywhere either, but my point again is you don’t throw out so much talent for only one older guy.

    However, I also think we don’t need to make either move.

  239. Brad November 19th, 2009 at 11:22 am

    By the way, unless you are Greinke’s personal physician, I think it would be wise to refrain from saying what he can or can’t do because of his prior anxiety issues. I seem to recall people saying Jim Esienrich could never play again, and he did just fine in Philadelphia.

  240. Woland November 19th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    Leave the young kids on the team for god’s sake. Everyone should come back that helped win it. We really need another pitcher who has likely had his best years already? making 18Mil a year? I don’t care how good he is.

    By the way down the stretch last season he was getting hit, the Red Sux beat him a few times, as did we. Hughes and Joba deserve to stay in the bronx. What good is winning it all if you go into the offseason as if you haven’t.

  241. yankeeland November 19th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    Trade for Halladay ASAP! Roy will contribute to at least the yankees next two or three world series championships. My suggestion is as follows: Provide the Blue Jays with the following: 1.Joba Chamberlain – he has had / is prone to having shoulder problems and does not have the character / head to be successful in NY. Whenever he is bombed in a game he always provides the excuse that “he pitched well but they are major league hitters”. 2. Ian Kennedy – while he is being heralded as a savior with a new cutter / 2 seamer, he too has had arm troubles. 3. Austin Jackson – while he may be a good outfielder, he batted only FOUR homeruns in over 500 plate appearances!!! – not a true bomber or home run hitter.

  242. Luca November 20th, 2009 at 6:50 am

    I like Halladay, but if possible i take Grienke, Felix or Verlander even if need more prospect. I like the idea of take Verlander and a bad contract from Tigers (Ordonez) for Joba, Melky, Aceves and other mid prospect.
    Excuse me for my english.


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