By the way down the stretch last season he was getting hit, the Red Sux beat him a few times, as did we. Hughes and Joba deserve to stay in the bronx. What good is winning it all if you go into the offseason as if you haven’t.

Grienke isn’t going anywhere.
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My point was IF we were going to give up all the talent mentioned, I wouldn’t go after a 33 year old who needs to be redigned for 4 or 5 years at $100M. I would instead target a guy like Greinke.

Felix isn’t going anywhere either, but my point again is you don’t throw out so much talent for only one older guy.

However, I also think we don’t need to make either move.

I don’t see a burning “need” for Halladay which is why I’d only favor a trade that kept Hughes, Joba and Montero in the organization. If that’s a deal breaker, move on. The Yanks did nicely without “Doc” in 2009 as I recall. There is absolutely no urgency to make a deal that isn’t favorable at every level.

The Blue Jays have a great 2B in Aaron Hill who cannot play SS, why would they want Cano and his $$$. that’s just goofy.

The “fact” is, Roy Halladay completely changed the way he pitched by going to A Ball and reinventing himself mechanically.
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that is exactly the point here guy…Halladay was given the oppurtunity to DEVELOP his game and he BECAME what he is. Halladay also had moer development time in the minors than Joba who blew through the minors in 4months because he sheer ability was off the charts!
Any and all pitchers can fall to injury as the act of pitching is physically somewhat unnatural so that means nothing to me. In fact Halladay has missed significant time in his career.
And of the field issues are not factors that can be quantified and used in long term theory of development analysis either.
Is Joba the complete polished pitcher that Halladay is today? Of course not! But the question that Cashman’s is asking him self is:
is a 24yr old supremely more talented Joba Chamberlain who will represent maybe $25mill in salary costs over the next 5yrs a better investment than a 33yr old Hallady who will cost $100million more over that same time frame given the current and projected makeup of my roster including salary commitments?
is the projected difference in performance between the 2players worth the extreme difference in salary to me?

Not every pitcher is Dave Eiland. He needs to remember the old adage “No man is an Eiland.”

I think the scout and you are saying the same thing. He was not pitching like he normally would. While throwing two seamers, he slowed down his delivery. Per you point of pitching to contact, he also used more slaw curves, and tried to pitch to the black–often leaving him behind in the count. This is one case where Eiland should adapt and leave the pitcher alone

as a starter Joba was throwing mostly 2seamers in an effort to pitch to contact,keep his pitch count down and go deeper into games.That’s not his mentality as a pitcher and that is the battle between him and Girardi/Eiland…i remember reading a comment by Eiland who i like as a coach where he said he doesn’t like to see a lot of strikeouts as it’s not an “efficient way to pitch” and i’m almost certain that was after the Boston game where Joba k’d 12 in 5innings.

after the ASB when Joba had those 3starts where he looked like the best pitcher in the league he said the difference was he went back to just being he was and going more to the 4seam/slider/change combo and fewer 2seamers and that combo i think suits his “attack the hitter” mentality more.