Andy finally files
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Nov 19, 2009 
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Andy Pettitte was among the last players to officially file for free agency today, joining Fernando Tatis as those who did the paperwork on the final day. Starting tomorrow, teams can negotiate with all free agents.
Pettitte is an interesting case. He signed with the Yankees each of the past two years because he was chasing one more championship. Now that he has it, will the 37-year-old retire? Filing for free agency isn’t necessarily an indication that he wants to keep playing (it’s more of a formality) and at 229 career wins, it’s not like Pettitte has a realistic shot at 300.
Here’s what he said when he was asked about playing another year just after the World Series.
“I’m not sure,” he said. “I’m not. I’m not sure. I’ll need to get home and talk to my family. I’ll need to talk to the Yankees and find out where they’re at, and then I can probably start trying to figure out what I’d like to do.”
Joba Chamberlain, who became close with Pettitte, has supposedly been badgering him already about coming back to the Yankees and my bet is Pettitte comes back for one more year. At this point, I just don’t see him playing anywhere else and the Yankees could certainly do much worse than having him at the back of their rotation in 2010.
Maybe Theo will sign him to a low risk contract.
Resign him. Give him his 8-10 mil and get him back. Other options are less than attractive. Add Halladay to the mix and we have repeat city.
one more year.
but i still hope the yankees build their starting pitching roster with as many starters as possible.
Andy will do one more year. The Yankees won’t jerk him around like they did last year and pony up a guaranteed 11mil. That’s my prediction and I’m sticking to it.
1 more year for andy, 2 yrs each for damon and matsui, and go from there.
What took Tatis so long? Was he contemplating retirement?
Andy made some comments that lead me to think he is leaning toward coming back for another year. If the Yankees offer him 11 million guaranteed I think he will be signing right away.
He dithered around a bit last year, the Yankees pulled back on their offer and gave him an incentive laden deal. While it all worked out, the first offer gave him the more comfortable deal for him.
Andy talked about how his kids like that he is pitching now. He still has it, and he seemed to have a good time this past season.
matsui isnt getting two years.
Tex -
On Melky:
Keep in mind two things – one I don’t think the Yankees are going to trade Melky for Juan Rivera – but more importantly the guy you’re defending so deeply was so bad he was sent to AAA last year, this year he lost his starting job in Spring Training to Brett Gardner (or as I like to call him, Bubba-Lite) and only got it back due to injuries.
Melky had a lot of game winning hits and made for an exciting year, but by and large he’s a below average offensive player, an average defensive player with an above average arm. That he was the starting CF for this team is not an indication of how good Melky is, but how much the Yankees need to upgrade the talent pool of their outfielders.
Joba Chamberlain, who became close with Pettitte, has supposedly been badgering him already about coming back to the Yankees and my bet is Pettitte comes back for one more year. At this point, I just don’t see him playing anywhere else and the Yankees could certainly do much worse than having him at the back of their rotation in 2010.
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Go Joba!! I do think Andy will be back for one more year-he made some comments that made me think he’s not quite ready to retire yet.
Come back, Andy.
And while 300 is most likely not in the cards, 250 is possible (heck, he might get to in next year, only needs 21 wins). That, plus all his post season wins could add up to a HoF invite.
He is a decent, reliable #3 starter.
It should be no surprise that the Surprise Rafters are in last place. Once again, they are sitting Colin Curtis (leading the league with a .397 BA) foe two outfielders hitting below .200 and sitting Brandon Laird (.333 BA, 2nd in homers and 3rd in RBI) for a .265 hitting 3rd baseman.
Curtis will win the batting title after today’s games.
In the end I think Matt Holliday will be the Yankees’ starting LF next season.
The Yankees will re-sign Damon to a reasonable deal (2 years 19 mil)
They will also sign a second tier pitcher – we’ll call him Justin Duchscher (whom Cashman has liked for a couple of years)
Holliday is going to, much like Tex, be unsigned around Christmas and the Yankees will jump in and give him 5 years, 18 mil per. At that point Damon will shift to an almost everyday DH.
Lineup:
Jeter
Damon – DH
Tex
Alex
Holliday
Posada
Cano
Swisher
Melky/Jackson
Rotation
CC, AJ, Andy, Duchscher, Joba/Hughes
Keep in mind two things – one I don’t think the Yankees are going to trade Melky for Juan Rivera – but more importantly the guy you’re defending so deeply was so bad he was sent to AAA last year, this year he lost his starting job in Spring Training to Brett Gardner (or as I like to call him, Bubba-Lite) and only got it back due to injuries.
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Chip get your facts right. he didnt get it back by injury. he got it back because he was better than gardner. gardner stunk, and everytime melky played, he played better. for the first half, he was batting over .320. that is why he started. gardner didnt get hurt until august?
melky got sent down LAST year. Below average hitter? please show me what average stats you are looking at, especially for 9th place hitters.
You dont need a 20M All Star at every position. .280 15/70 is just fine from melky when you have the other guys in that lineup. pitching is WAY more important than replacing a position that is already taken.
below average offensive player, an average defensive player with an above average arm
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really? If the Yankees thought this way, there is no way he would have played so many games in CF right thru the playoffs !
Pettitte could actually get close to 300 wins. He stays in top condition and could possibly pitch at his usual level for 3 more years. That would put him in the 270-275 win range with close to 2600 strikeouts. That’s Mussina numbers.
really? If the Yankees thought this way, there is no way he would have played so many games in CF right thru the playoffs
When the only other option is Brett Gardner who was an even worse hitter – yes he would play.
Melky is a nice, useful player – but if you think that this last season was a sign of bigger things to come you are going to be sadly mistaken I fear…just my opinion.
GB did you recommend I watch “Ballad of a Soldier”
Russian WWII movie ?
“Pettitte is an interesting case. He signed with the Yankees each of the past two years because he was chasing one more championship.”
I don’t know where that perception came from. When he left Houston, he was pretty vocal about his unhappiness with missing the postseason. He was vocal about wanting a chance to win, but seemed to be pretty clear that his decision was always about whether he still wanted to play the game at all or not. I never saw any indication that winning another championship would mean anything different to him than it would to say Jeter or Mo.
I’m with Chip here. Melky is what he is. And what he is is below what I would hope the Yankees standard for CF’s will be going forward.
Speaking of OF’s, was that rumor that the Yankees are quietly looking to move Swisher just more of the crazy stuff that floats around at this time of year, or what?
Tex’s friend: your facts and logic in the face of the typical idiocy displayed here are rather refreshing.
“Who in their right mind thinks that Dave Robertson has more long term value to the Yanks than Joba or Phil?!?!?! I like DRob alot too i’ve been saying since the ‘08 season that Girardi had to use him more because he’s a very talented reliever and he’s really come on. I like having him in my pen. That being the case there is NO WAY that if it came down to me keeping DRob over Joba or over Phil on an untouchable list that DRob’s the guy i have to keep!!! that’s insanity he’s a middle reliever and Melancon’s better”
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if you think Melancon is better then David Robertson, frankly you’re insane. I don’t care what the scouting reports contain. Check David Robertson’s k/inning ratio. The results speak for themself. Not to mention his minor league resume
Melky is a nice, useful player – but if you think that this last season was a sign of bigger things to come you are going to be sadly mistaken I fear…just my opinion.
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OK Mr. Baseball Expert
If you want to tell me that in the Yankee lineup the team can afford to carry a Melky Cabrera in the 9 spot I won’t argue with you. But there are three things I would suggest:
1. Acting as if he’s some young stud on the rise is setting him (and yourself) up for failure. And I can almost promise you that at most the Yankees consider him an able body to keep the spot warm for Austin Jackson and Slade Heathcott
2. At the ML minimum salary he is a nice player – when he starts making more in arbitration the Yankees will drop him like a turd sandwich.
3. You are right that the Yankee lineup – if healthy – can support him. But as we saw in 2008 all it takes is a few injuries to move Melky into a spot where he gets exposed for being what he is.
Can you win with Melky Cabrera playing every day – obviously. But does that mean you shouldn’t look to upgrade when you can – absolutely not.
Andy will be back…its as good as done.
He says this kind of stuff every offseason. He can still pitch, he knows he can, his family allowed him to move back to NY to pitch for the Yankees.
He’ll be back, end of story.
Joe -
Never claimed that I was a baseball expert – but point to one aspect of Melky’s game that makes him above average. His arm is about it.
He has average range in the OF
He has an average BA (.270 for the career)
He has a below average OBP
Below average power (especially if you want to move him to a corner)
I don’t know how that qualifies him as being anything more than a useful player – and he’s been in the league long enough that the odds are against him making any great leaps.
Ellie, not sure if I recommended that movie or not. Good choice of movies, though. Not really a war picture. Another good movie, with Rutger Hauer is “Escape From Sobibor”.
Melky is a 24yr old player who is theoretically 3 years away from his “prime” years. So the idea that he could show improvement as a player is very valid. I like melky as a Lf’er where i think he’d play above average defensively and i’d like to see him continue to work on his conditioning and maybe work with Longy on using his lower half more in his swing. but if he could be a 280-.290/15-20hr/30double guy who doesn’t strike out and plays above average LF defense then I’ve got 25yr old player who’s giving me Damon’s offense,better defense for $10mil less!
What i do know is that Melky’s a better offensive player than Marlon Byrd who some on this board what to give $ to.
He’s a better idea if Josh Hamilton is really on the block how about a pkg for him (no Joba/Phil/Montero/AJax) and bring him in to play RF with AJax in CF and Melky in LF…
give em Swish,Romine,McCallister(groundball pitcher is a must in Arlington)Gardner
What happens if a guy doesn’t file?
Steveoh, once again the rubbish that is the UZR is displayed with the rating that Juan Rivera is given…….He’s terrible in the OF, in fact he’s yanked in the late innings for a defensive upgrade …..He still has a solid stick though, however he’s a dh, and I’d much rather have Mats back…
—
So it’s just a coincidence that he is surrounded by Carl Crawford and David DeJesus? Their UZR’s are meaningless as well? It’s also a coincidence that we all know that Damon is a poor LF’er and his UZR is -12.1? I don’t see any reason why Juan Rivera would have a vastly incorrect UZR relative to those others.
That said, I’m not proposing the Yanks try to get him, or that UZR is perfect, just saying he may not be a bad fielder.
Yanks did pretty well over the years with Melky Cabrera type corner outfielders. Lou Pinella, Roy White….
“Can you win with Melky Cabrera playing every day – obviously. But does that mean you shouldn’t look to upgrade when you can – absolutely not.”
OK, so how do you want to upgrade the position? Mike Cameron would be an upgrade, but he’s going to be really expensive compared to what Melky is paid. Granderson is supposed to be available via trade, but he is going to cost the Yankees valuable prospects considering how good he is and how reasonable his contract is.
GreenBeret7
November 19th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Ellie, not sure if I recommended that movie or not. Good choice of movies, though. Not really a war picture. Another good movie, with Rutger Hauer is “Escape From Sobibor”.
Well Ballad of Soldier is Fantastic FWIW
I actually think I have Escape from Sobibor and have not watched it – will do.
Huaer doesn’t sing does he? I was born under a wanderin star?
Chad Curtis
Chucky
Why in the world would a team trade four players for an outfielder that can’t stay healthy and one that you’d have to babysit to make sure that he stays clean?
Uncle Ellsworth (much adieu about nothing)
November 19th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
GreenBeret7
November 19th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Ellie, not sure if I recommended that movie or not. Good choice of movies, though. Not really a war picture. Another good movie, with Rutger Hauer is “Escape From Sobibor”.
Well Ballad of Soldier is Fantastic FWIW
I actually think I have Escape from Sobibor and have not watched it – will do.
Huaer doesn’t sing does he? I was born under a wanderin star?
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Nah… Hauer dosn’t sing. He’s no Lee Marvin.
“That said, I’m not proposing the Yanks try to get him {Juan Rivera}, or that UZR is perfect, just saying he may not be a bad fielder.”
I watched him in the postseason. Trust me, he’s a bad fielder.
Champ –
Why is Texas doing that deal?
Swisher is going to cost them more money than Hamilton in arbitration and the last thing that an organization with Jarrod Saltalamaccia, Taylor Tegarden, and Max Ramirez needs is another catching prospect.
As for Melky – again my opinion – he’s a fourth outfielder – can you win with him, sure. Should you try to upgrade from him when you can – absolutely. And playing him in an OF with either Gardner or Jackson on an everyday basis will expose how average he is. Just like in 2008 when the Yankees were without Posada and Matsui and Melky was forced to bat in the 7 spot on a regular basis.
“He’s a better idea if Josh Hamilton is really on the block how about a pkg for him (no Joba/Phil/Montero/AJax) and bring him in to play RF with AJax in CF and Melky in LF…”
No offense dude, but this is straight up LAUGHABLE.
You’re kidding right?
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“Nah… Hauer dosn’t sing. He’s no Lee Marvin.”
ANy other suggestions for me?
“Speaking of OF’s, was that rumor that the Yankees are quietly looking to move Swisher just more of the crazy stuff that floats around at this time of year, or what?”
I don’t think that they are looking to move Swish. I think that they are just saying that if you make them a decent offer, they will listen as opposed to if someone were to make them an offer for CC, Jeter or Alex.
If Texas did that deal for Hamilton, the GM would be fired and burned at the stake shortly thereafter.
The trade ideas on this blog have become comical…I almost look forward to reading them because it injects some humor into an otherwise run-the-mill day.
Uncle Ellsworth (much adieu about nothing)
November 19th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
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“Nah… Hauer dosn’t sing. He’s no Lee Marvin.”
ANy other suggestions for me?
————————————————————
I’ll have to think of a couple. “Beach Red”, “Anzio” and “The Big Red One” come to mind, along with “Porkchop Hill”.
steveoh…..I watch alot of Angel & Dodger games due to the fact that I live in So. Cal……Trust me, the only reason Rivera wears a MLB uni is because he has a good stick….He’s not even close to being a good outfielder….I simply trust what I see…In comparing him to Damon, he has a much better arm of course, but certainly has far less range…..Rivera has the edge on Johnny Damon, but it reality it’s not by much…..
Does Andy make it to the hall of fame if he retires now? Leads in most wins in the playoffs but not in the upper 200′s in wins.
Laura,
I think you’re right re: Swish.
They’re doing their due diligence, gauging interest, opening up possibilities.
I’m sure they’re doing the same thing with Melky.
Personally, I am fine with Melky as our 9th hitter…you could do a lot worse and he is young. He’ll likely never be an All Star, but he should get a little bit better at the plate, is a switch hitter. Not bad for a 9 hole hitter.
Yanks did pretty well over the years with Melky Cabrera type corner outfielders. Lou Pinella, Roy White….
GB – you strike me as a fan who is smart enough to know that those teams played in a completely different era, with a completely different style than the game that is played today.
OK, so how do you want to upgrade the position?
27 – Three things:
1. Melky shouldn’t be handed the job. If he beats out Austin Jackson for it, fantastic, if not – he’s to the bench. Under no circumstances should Melky be a starting corner OF
2. If Melky is going to be in the lineup 154 times then it is imperative that the Yankees put together a lineup that can carry him. As I said above, I think the Yankees will end up with Damon and Holliday and quite frankly with that lineup I have no issue with Melky batting 9 and playing CF (again if he beats out Jackson)
3. This entire Melky issue came up because I suggested that if he was going to move to a corner, I would rather have Juan Rivera via trade in that spot than Melky because offensively Rivera gives me just as much average and a lot more power and that I would far rather have an OF of Rivera/Swisher Jackson, Gardner than Melky, Gardner/Jackson, Swisher
Vinny B
it’s not knock against DRob and you clearly know knothing of Melancon beyond the Boston game where he gave up 3 walks and hit the Elf(i was glad he did) but just so you know Melancon is a better pitcher with better stuff and a higher ceiling than DRob. Internally the Yanks are much higher on Melancon of the two. K/9inning rates don’t tell everything as for example many closer through the years had higher K/9ip rates than Mo and yet we know who the best is. Actually one of the things the Yanks like most about Melancon is that he that Mo-like quality of being very efficient with his pitches and has shown the ability to get 3 outs in an inning on 5-6 pitches.
Hmmm
Joba, Phil, Ajax, Montero
for
Josh Hamilton
The Texas GM would burned at the stake????
“Personally, I am fine with Melky as our 9th hitter…you could do a lot worse and he is young. He’ll likely never be an All Star, but he should get a little bit better at the plate, is a switch hitter. Not bad for a 9 hole hitter.”
I’m fine with Melky as well. He’s proven that he can have his moments when he wants. He had some clutch walkoff hits this season. That’s always a good thing. Would I turn my nose up on a better player if the Yankees went out and got one? No. But keeping Melky isn’t killing us so what’s the harm?
Ellie, two other movies that you might enjoy are “Lost Command” with Anthony Quinn and “The Hill” with Sean Connery.
“He’s a better idea if Josh Hamilton is really on the block how about a pkg for him (no Joba/Phil/Montero/AJax) and bring him in to play RF with AJax in CF and Melky in LF…”
No offense dude, but this is straight up LAUGHABLE.
You’re kidding right?
==========
Hell in that case. Why not shoot for the moon and grab Siezmore. Without those players in the deal, it will be an offer that Cleveland cant refuse.
But seriously. If Cleveland gave up Martinez and Lee. What would it take to snatch their centerfielder?
I’ll have to think of a couple. “Beach Red”, “Anzio” and “The Big Red One” come to mind, along with “Porkchop Hill”.
Love the Big Red One – Sam Fuller
I’ll check out the others
thanks
“Hmmm Joba, Phil, Ajax, Montero for Josh Hamilton
The Texas GM would burned at the stake????”
No, he’d be given a ticker tape parade and keys to the city.
“But seriously. If Cleveland gave up Martinez and Lee. What would it take to snatch their centerfielder?”
A lot. Grady is their franchise player a la Jeter for us and Mauer for the Twins. I don’t see them parting with him under any circumstances.
U.E.,
I think he meant no to those players.
GB7,
What year is that Sean Conerry movie? Thats one old man i dont mind watching.
But keeping Melky isn’t killing us so what’s the harm?
There’s no harm, as long as Melky is the 9th place hitter in a good lineup and playing CF.
My issues are that Melky shouldn’t be a starting corner OF in a weak offensive OF.
He shouldn’t be in a lineup where he has to be more than a 9th place hitter
He should have to earn his spot in CF this spring in an open competition.
And, if a trade comes along where the Yankees get a player who is more than a solid 9th place hitter – they should make it.
Sorry
I totally misread that Hamilton trade post – forget my reply.
Amazing that people have no trouble carrying a corner outfielder like Swisher, but, don’t want a Cabrera, who is the superior fielder and base runner and although he didn’t have the power, he still drove in 70 runs (as opposed to Swisher’s 85 from a higher spot) from the 9th spot or 8th spot when he was backed by Molina.
Could probably get Sizemore for a package of Hughes, Jackson, Brackman.
Melky doesn’t have to beat out Austin Jackson for a job next year.
Austin Jackson will begin the year in AAA. Melky is the starting CF on a World Championship team as of right now.
Austin Jackson is still at least a half, maybe a full season away, from being ready to play in the majors.
Mark Melancon v. David Robertson? As of right now, its not close. Its Robertson in a landslide.
David Robertson led the AL in K’s per 9 innings. Mark Melancon couldn’t throw the ball over the plate at the ML level.
Just because someone was hyped more before the season doesn’t make him the better prospect.
As of today, Robertson is guaranteed a spot on the 25 man roster in 2010. Melancon is not.
Calling someone crazy for ranking Robertson over Melancon is laughable. Right now, Robertson may be the best righty out of the pen not named Mariano on the team.
GB -
Nick Swisher also got on base at a .370 clip compared to Melky’s .330 clip despite Melky hitting .030 points higher than Swisher.
And the Yankees in the playoffs dealt with Swisher’s lack of defensive ability the right way – they used Melky as a defensive replacement. Which, FYI, is what a fourth outfielder is for.
S.o.S.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
U.E.,
I think he meant no to those players.
GB7,
What year is that Sean Conerry movie? Thats one old man i dont mind watching.
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About 1965, SoS. Done in black and white. British soldier stationed in the Sahara. He was put in a British prison with a nutcase for a regimental sergeant major who’s favorite punishment was making the run a large hill with full pack in the daytime heat. Grat movie.
[Could probably get Sizemore for a package of Hughes, Jackson, Brackman.]
I don’t think so, Chip. CLE has already broken the hearts of it’s fans by shipping off CC, Lee and Martinez. Hell, both CC and Lee were in the World Series. How can they put people in the seats if they trade Grady as well?
GreenBeret7 November 19th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Ellie, two other movies that you might enjoy are “Lost Command” with Anthony Quinn and “The Hill” with Sean Connery.
============================================================
Try “Stripes” and “No Time for Sergeants”
Laura – Bring back Matsui in 2010!
November 19th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
I don’t think that they are looking to move Swish. I think that they are just saying that if you make them a decent offer, they will listen as opposed to if someone were to make them an offer for CC, Jeter or Alex.
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Laura, I completely agree. I think it’s a “if the right deal comes along, we’re not opposed to it” type of thing.
SJ,
Lots of people had Melancon inked in to close once Rivera retired. I know he dominated in the minors, but i didnt see anything to tell me he would do it in the bigs. I know you have talked about him for a couple years now. What do you think went wrong? Does he have good enough stuff and makeup to make it as an 8th inning guy or closer? Those situations make me leary of another savior in Ajax.
The trade ideas on this blog have become comical…I almost look forward to reading them because it injects some humor into an otherwise run-the-mill day
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Have you gone on some of the Red Sox blogs and see their trade proposals for Adrian Gonzalez or Felix Hernandez? I actually think I read one where a blogger had the Red Sox trading Bucholtz twice once for Gonzo and again for Hernandez – I think he had bucholtz pitching for the other team on his off days from the first team..
As bad as some of the trades are on here – the intelligence level is far superior here than it is anywhere else
Ellie, “Anzio” was with Robert Mitchem and “Porkchop hill” was with Gregory Peck.
Austin Jackson will begin the year in AAA. Melky is the starting CF on a World Championship team as of right now.
1. That’s what Spring Training is for
2. Chad Curtis was the starting LF on one of the best teams of all time – didn’t stop the Yankees from looking to upgrade from him.
3. By that kind of logic Chad Gaudin should be handed a spot in the rotation next season.
the problem with Salty,Teagarden and Max Ramirez is they all suck
Salty-Ok defense,ok bat may move to 1b
Teagarden-terrible bat and good defense profiles more as a backup
Ramirez-good minor league bat and no glove no chance to play the position in Tex.
Texas is making him available obviously when his value his down and there are concerns about his health and Texas has no $ as Hicks had to get a loan to make payroll. Swish is signed to a reasonable 15.75mil for the next two years his bat would play well there in Arlington he could play some LF/1B/DH McCallister would give them a good young arm who’s a groundball pitcher which is necessary in there park Romine would be an upgrade over Salty/Teagarden as he offers plus defense and a good bat and could maybe be the primary catcher there in a year and Gardner could leadoff and play center for them moving Kinsler down to the 3 spot in their order. I also think that privately they are worried about Josh relapsing.
Sounds like a good movie GB. The only problem is its in black and white. Hell they got the wizard of Oz in color. When are they going to get some of the movies youv watched changed into something we can see?
Wasnt Stripes a comedy in the mid 80′s? If so,I liked that movie.
One more movie is “The Devil’s Brigade” with William Holden and Cliff Robertson. Outstanding movie.
Laura – Bring back Matsui in 2010!
November 19th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
[Could probably get Sizemore for a package of Hughes, Jackson, Brackman.]
I don’t think so, Chip. CLE has already broken the hearts of it’s fans by shipping off CC, Lee and Martinez. Hell, both CC and Lee were in the World Series. How can they put people in the seats if they trade Grady as well?
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I don’t think they’d miss the extra 30 people in the stands that show up to see sizemore – the indians may be 3 or 4 years away from contending again – so why not trade sizemore for 4 more good prospects – they still need to fill alot of holes in the rotation, bullpen and lineup…
Laura -
fans will forgive you if you convince them that the deal is in the best interests of the club.
Do I think it will happen – of course not – but after Seattle traded Griffey, after Clemens and Damon and Boggs became Yankees, after seeing Don Mattingly (even as a coach) in another uniform – I don’t believe anything in baseball is impossible.
Try “Stripes” and “No Time for Sergeants”
I’ve seen these – thanks
Ellie, “Anzio” was with Robert Mitchem and “Porkchop hill” was with Gregory Peck.
2 great actors
Have you seen Tigerland?
I also think that privately they are worried about Josh relapsing.
without even getting into your evaluation of the Texas catchers;
If the Rangers are worried about Hamilton relapsing then why, in the name of all that is holy, would you think that the odds of him relapsing go down calling New York City home?
“I don’t think they’d miss the extra 30 people in the stands that show up to see sizemore – the indians may be 3 or 4 years away from contending again – so why not trade sizemore for 4 more good prospects – they still need to fill alot of holes in the rotation, bullpen and lineup…”
I think you are underestimating Grady’s appeal (especially with us women folk). If any fans are going to CLE games next season, it’s to see Grady. Who else are they turning out for?
SoS
you are cheating yourself by not watching B/W movies.
[Do I think it will happen – of course not – but after Seattle traded Griffey, after Clemens and Damon and Boggs became Yankees, after seeing Don Mattingly (even as a coach) in another uniform – I don’t believe anything in baseball is impossible.]
Very good point, Chip. But you still aren’t getting my vote for Yankees GM.
S.o.S.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Sounds like a good movie GB. The only problem is its in black and white. Hell they got the wizard of Oz in color. When are they going to get some of the movies youv watched changed into something we can see?
Wasnt Stripes a comedy in the mid 80’s? If so,I liked that movie.
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Not sure why it was in B&W. Same reason “Sink The Bismark” was in B&W a few years ago. Done by a small English studio and trying to cut costs, I suppose.
S.o.S.
nothing has gone wrong with Melancon he’s only 16 innings into his major league career….he will be fine. Similar to DRob as late as sept many of the posters here on this blog had no use for him. It’s a matter of oppurtunity for Melancon.
I think he comes into spring training knowing he can make this squad and has a lights out ST and i believe he will emerge this season as not only one of the best relievers on our staff but in baseball this season.
The talent and makeup are there and now 2 yrs removed from TJ surgery i think the oppurtunity will be presented to him and he will run with it.
I would really like to see Andy pitching in pinstripes next year. For many reasons, he is a good fit.
He won’t be looking for a long term deal. One year for reasonable money should do it.
If he has become close with Joba, he could have a huge impact on Joba’s development.
But you still aren’t getting my vote for Yankees GM
well then no free tickets for you when I get the job anyway.
Uncle Ellsworth (much adieu about nothing)
November 19th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Try “Stripes” and “No Time for Sergeants”
I’ve seen these – thanks
Ellie, “Anzio” was with Robert Mitchem and “Porkchop hill” was with Gregory Peck.
2 great actors
Have you seen Tigerland?
————————————————————
Haven’t seen “Tigerland”. Depending on how far back you want to go, “Objective Burma” with Errol Flynn and “Dam Busters” are good movies.
Laura, you misread champ809′s post and my response to it.
He indicated that Joba/Phil/Montero/Jackson would NOT be included.
If you want Josh Hamilton, two of those four are going to Arlington if not more.
That is why I said it was laughable.
Uncle Ellsworth, glad you reread it.
the odds obviously wouldn’t go down playing here but i’d take that risk if i were Cash because a 3-4-5 of Tex/ARod/Josh would be unreal.
Texas worries don’t necessarily have to be ours.
That was the reason Tampa left him rule 5 unprotected and why the Reds flipped him so quick…
as an aside Cash is playing Swish the right way as he bought low on him last year(Betimit and Marquez) and could sell high off of the year he had and turn him into something he could never have gotten for Betimit and Marquez…Shrewd Dude that Ca$h!
“Not sure why it was in B&W. Same reason “Sink The Bismark” was in B&W a few years ago. Done by a small English studio and trying to cut costs, I suppose.”
Many, many directors well into the 60′s chose B/W due to asthetics not cost.
Imagine “On the Waterfront” in Color
While I am not opposed to trying to upgrade the team , Melky did prove to be big many times this season and postseason. Forget about the walkoffs; he may have gotten the biggest hit of the ALCS in Game 4 up 1-0. While much of the team was struggling to drive in runs at that point, he got the 2 run hit with the bases loaded. Put us up 3-0, and we never looked back in that game.
[Could probably get Sizemore for a package of Hughes, Jackson, Brackman.]
————————————————————
Hell…for that package of players, they could get Cleveland.
The city.
Uncle Ellsworth (much adieu about nothing)
November 19th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
“Not sure why it was in B&W. Same reason “Sink The Bismark” was in B&W a few years ago. Done by a small English studio and trying to cut costs, I suppose.”
Many, many directors well into the 60’s chose B/W due to asthetics not cost.
Imagine “On the Waterfront” in Color
————————————————————
I’ve seen the colorized versions of old movies like “They Died With Their Boots On” with Errol Flynn. I prefer the B&W.
“Haven’t seen “Tigerland”. Depending on how far back you want to go, “Objective Burma” with Errol Flynn and “Dam Busters” are good movies.”
Tigerland is Boot camp based Vietnam film – good.
I’ll go all the way back to DW Griffith if it is good.
Chambliss
November 19th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
I would really like to see Andy pitching in pinstripes next year. For many reasons, he is a good fit.
He won’t be looking for a long term deal. One year for reasonable money should do it.
If he has become close with Joba, he could have a huge impact on Joba’s development.
*********
Agree 100%. I love the fact that Joba’s been badgering Andy to come back. I have a feeling he can be pretty persuasive when he needs to be. LOL
Mad Prince
Josh’svalue has taken a hit last year,he’s coming off of back surgery and there is a concern that he’s not all the way through his substance abuse issues and that contibuted to his terrible season.There is also a thought among some scouts/gms that his body is actually much “older” than his age after the years of drug abuse. It’s certainly one of the reasons i think Texas is floating him as another year like last year would crater his value. That being the case he will not net the package that he would have last offseason as his decline actually began second half of ’08 right after his Superman show in the Bronx.
Maybe Daniels and Nolan would laugh me right off the phone if prosposed that but his value is down….Similar to Manny’s
Thanks for the movie suggestion, Ellie. I’ll check it out and probably order it. I love the old navy flix like “Flat Top” and “Battle Of The Coral Sea”, too. Two other pretty good movies of an older setting is “Captain Horacio Hornblower” with Gregory Peck and “John Paul Jones” with Robert Stack (from the late 1950s).
Uncle Ellsworth (much adieu about nothing)
November 19th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Try “Stripes” and “No Time for Sergeants”
I’ve seen these – thanks
Ellie, “Anzio” was with Robert Mitchem and “Porkchop hill” was with Gregory Peck.
2 great actors
Have you seen Tigerland?
==================================
I’ve seen it. It’s pretty good. In a similar vain there’s a great one titled “The Boys in Company C”
U.E.,
I did like Shindlers list in B & W. But maybe thats because they gave us a hint of color with that girl in the movie. It just hurts my eyes for some reason.
Tigerland was an awesome flick.
I hope your right Champ. I hope Melancon picks it up in the bigs and helps the team save some money not having to spend it on relief pitchers that end up being a crap shoot.
Andy needs to decide quickly what he’s going to do. The Yankees can not afford to have him dither like he always does as their off-season moves need to be plotted out and if he’s not there, then the Yankees need to plan around that.
“1. Melky shouldn’t be handed the job. If he beats out Austin Jackson for it, fantastic, if not – he’s to the bench. Under no circumstances should Melky be a starting corner OF”
The thing is, when the Yankees have the best offensive players at all 4 infield positions, and the 2nd best offensive catcher in the league making around $80M a year, you can’t fill the outfield with all stars as well.
The other problem is that just because Austin Jackson has a few good weeks in spring training, it doesn’t mean he’s ready for the major leagues. He’s still really young and didn’t have a great year in AAA in 2009. No reason to rush him to the majors to replace Melky, who was good enough for the Yankees last season.
How about that movie with Penn and Cruz when they were younger and were in a military school. They didnt want it to close down. What was the name of that movie?
GB7,
Did you ever watch that Robert Redford movie when he’s in jail and the father from Sopranos was the Warden. Pretty good flick. Help me out fellas. Im drawing a blank on titles here. Something Castle.
Betsy-don’t worry; sounds like Joba’s on the case.
I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it’s not going to be such a dragged out process with Andy this year.
The Yanks pen consists of Mariano, Bruney, Coke, Marte, Aceves, Robertson…….how is that a strength again? We won’t have Phil there and I do not like Coke. Aceves was mediocre the 2nd half of the season – he’s just not a reliever; he should be a starter (not that he would be great). Gaudin is fine….but again, is he really a reliever? We don’t know that as he pitched once in the playoffs. If Marte is healthy, he should be good…..but still, we need to wait on him. I think the Yankees definitely need help in the pen. I’m sure not counting on Melancon to provide it.
Melky is more than just a servicable CF…Maybe he continues to improve at the plate…..I mean hitting 270 is just 3 hits a month more from being a .300 hitter….His plate displine has improved, although he still has a passion for high heat which translates into K’s….My preference would be to obtain a grade A type CF…I know I’ll get drilled on this, however I view Curtis Granderson as a A type centerfielder……Having him patrolling CF in Yankee Stadium would be outstanding….He’s taylor made for the place & hitting in that lineup he’d excell beyond anything he’s accomplished to date….Well 23 triples is incredible
OK, it’s not my money so here’s what I’d do with Big Stein’s… bring back Andy for 1 year $12 mil guarantee, offer Damon 2 years at $25mil with a club option of $10mil in the 3rd year. Offer Matsui 1 year at $13mil with a player option for the 2nd year at $10mil.
Deal’s done,let’s drink!
Im not a soccer fan. But did anyone read that the Ireland team wants the game yesterday which was the qualifier replayed? I think its only fair being that it was so obvious the guy used his hand to help them score. Thoughts?
The Last Castle – ok
TAPS was an Awesome movie.
Bring back Andy for another year – no screwing around. Give him the $10-11m base + incentives.
Damon back for 2.
Matsui back for 1 + club option for 2.
End of story. No Bay. No Holliday. No turn on red.
Tin Soldiers?
TAPS not to be confused with BAPS
Why would the yankees want Mike Gonzales.Another lefty in het bullpen??With Marte and Coke/Dunn the yankees should be fine,don’t they?
Betsy,
The Yankees won a World Series with that bullpen.
One of Phil or Joba will be in the pen. I know folks don’t want to believe it but, Cashman is not going into the season with 2 young guys in the rotation.
Robertson was dominating out of the pen. Aceves pitched great for most of the season. Coke was also solid for much of the year. Marte showed in the post-season how good he is when he is healthy.
Joba or Phil, Aceves, Coke Marte and Rivera is as good a bullpen as there is in the game and they still have 2 open slots for other guys to fill in.
That’s the best bullpen in the league and the younger guys will only get better.
S.o.S.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
GB7,
Did you ever watch that Robert Redford movie when he’s in jail and the father from Sopranos was the Warden. Pretty good flick. Help me out fellas. Im drawing a blank on titles here. Something Castle.
————————————————————
Was that “The Chase” with Marlon brando as the sheriff?
“Calling someone crazy for ranking Robertson over Melancon is laughable. Right now, Robertson may be the best righty out of the pen not named Mariano on the team.”
actually SJ i said you’re crazy if you rank DRob’s value to this team over Joba or Hughes referring to those who would part with Joba and/or Hughes in a flash but don’t want to let DRob go as they feel he will be an important piece going forward.
as far as DRob vs Melancon being a landslide right now it is because of oppurtunity not ability.That will change.
Mariano is the best example of K/9ip not being the best way to rank relievers as he has never had the best k/9 but he has been then best reliever and is considered the best reliever mainly for consistently coming in closing games out on 5-7 pitches and three broken bat ground balls nice and easy which is Melancon has done since he’s been closing in HS which is what the Yanks were so high about when they drafted him because he reminded them of Mariano in his approach and effectiveness. Don’t believe me ask Nardi.
I’m high on both players but slightly higher on Melancon for that reason and the better stuff.
It’s funny to me that you say Melancon can’t throw the ball over the plate because i’ve read a million times on this board from the same posters how they wanted DRob buried in the pen because of walks.
again a young pitcher fibally realizes his dream of making the majors is brought into a jam against the RedSox in Yankee stadium with the adrenalin pumping and walks a couple of guys….”he’s a bum get him ouuta here or better yet trade him!He’ll never be any good”…that is laughable
SOS,
Melancon has one big problem. His arm action is scary and that leads to control issues if his mechanics get out of whack.
I think his anxiousness to show at the major league level got his mechanics out of whack and he was all over the place control-wise. Not shocking for a young pitcher.
If he isn’t included in a deal in the off-season, he certainly can fix that mechanical flaw and be a contributor out of the pen.
However, Robertson has passed him right now and is definitely an asset in the pen for 2010.
You’re referring to “The Last Castle”?
Anyone know who Mark Gonzalez is? I think I heard that right – Mark Gonzalez – a lefty reliever?
Because I heard on XM that Rosenthal, I think it was, is saying that the Yankees inquired about him.
Its not just the Red Sox outings with Melancon. He was awful this year for the Yankees.
That doesn’t mean bury him forever. Its simply stating a fact.
David Robertson throws harder and has a better curveball than Melancon. Melancon has grit and good, not great stuff.
I’ve seen Melancon pitch a lot and I think he has the chance to be very, very good. I’ve also watched Robertson since he pitched in the Cape and he has been outstanding. He has dominated the competition at every level.
The Yankees have 2 good, young bullpen arms. Robertson, at least for now, is simply better.
It may not stay that way but, that’s where it is going into ST 2010.
TAPS is the one with Penn/Tim Hutton/ Cruise George C Scott Ronny Cox
Classic 80s stuff
Thanks U.E.,
You have a memory of an Elephant.
The Last Castle and Taps GB.
Doreen,
Its “Mike” Gonzalez and he is a FA pitcher who last pitched for the Braves this year.
Melancon – in his first appearance against the Red Sox was actually not bad. I think his first inning was okay, and then his second was not.
But he sat a lot, wasn’t used.
And subsequent outings were not good.
And his control, well, he hit a lot of guys, didn’t he, for coming out of the bullpen?
I think he’ll work it out. But it was certainly disappointing.
I think the Yankees will do a trade that no one is expecting at all.
I don’t think Halladay is going to be a Yankee. I heard the Dodgers are VERY interested in Halladay. That would actually be a good thing, as far as I’m concerned. Get him out of the AL East and off the Red Sox.
Can Melancon get ML hitters out before we say he’s better than Robertson? I agree that there’s no way Robertson should be valued more highly than Phil or Joba, but the kid proved himself in the 2nd half and in the post-season. I want to see him do it again, but the fact is, he did it at least once. Melancon is all hype right now, no matter what the scouting reports say. Results are what counts and Robertson got them.
SJ, that was this year, next year is next year. Assuming that Coke is just going to improve greatly is dangerous – I don’t like him. He gives up too many HRs. I like Marte, but assuming he’s going to repeat his post-season performance is dangerous. I’m willing to be positive on him because I don’t think he was healthy for the majority of the season, even when he came back up. Hughes is not in the pen (and if the put him there at all this year, it will be a foolish decision). I’m not sure why either Phil or Joba would be in the pen. IMO, if you keep Phil there, you might as well declare him a reliever for the rest of his career. He’s going to be 24 years old and it’s time that he develop as a starter. If he’s not going to start up in NY, then send him to AAA or trade him; he’s not a reliever. Aceves can help us, but again – his performance in the 2nd half concerns me (and forget his post-season performance – not worth remembering). I like Robertson. I want to see him do it again, but I have every expectation that he will be good. I guess I wouldn’t make it a priority because we need to deal with LF and DH first, but for me, the pen has way too many question marks for my liking.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083169/
TAPS
I should plan a Taps/Red Dawn Movie night!
Dumping Melky for another no-heart, big contract like Cameron is the absolute last thing we should or will do.
Melky brings things to the table (fire, hunger, toughness) that the team needs badly and won’t get from just any hired gun. He’s shown he can take a punch (took his job back from Gardner; bounced back from a crappy ALDS to play well against the Halos), has a flair for the dramatic, and is still way young.
We need more guys playing for their next contract, not less. Focus on LF and another starter. CF is taken.
Melancon has one big problem. His arm action is scary and that leads to control issues if his mechanics get out of whack.
=========
SJ,
Didnt Melancon have pin point control in the minors? This reminds me of Kennedy coming up. He was suppose to have good control and when he came up, started nibbling and falling behind hitters.
“Laura, you misread champ809’s post and my response to it.”
Sorry about that. I’m doing a drive by here while at work and sometimes, things get missed.
Thanks SJ44 – sometimes when the radio is on in the car I’m half listening. Anyway, they did say the Yankees were talking to Scott Boras about him. Kevin Kennedy seemed to like him, for whatever that’s worth.
Anyone know who Mark Gonzalez is?
========
Doreen,
You dont remember a year or so ago when Brandon wanted us to give up our whole farm system for Gonzalez. Or was that they reliever in S.F.? I believe both.
“it’s not knock against DRob and you clearly know knothing of Melancon beyond the Boston game”
————————————-
no. I have been avidly following the Yankees minor league system since 2001. But yeah, i have no idea about who Mark Melancon is.
yup. you a real champ
Betsy,
Under your theory, why would you assume Phil will be better next year? Just because he pitched well this year, despite being awful in the post-season, doesn’t guarantee future success.
You can’t think that way.
The Yankees had a ton of young players, even some vets, who have never been through an entire post-season. They all passed with flying colors because the team won.
That gives players a great sense of confidence, knowing they can succeed at this level.
If you don’t have belief in players, you are constantly remaking your team.
That won’t make you the Yankees. That makes you the Mets! lol
Seriously, the Yankees have a core of young, bullpen arms that are the envy of the league. Add to it the greatest closer of all-time and the bullpen is not a problem the Yankees.
They have more pressing needs to fill this off-season.
Betsy,
Reliever are a crap shoot from year to year. A year ago, no one wanted Marte resigned because he laid and egg when he was traded to us. Look at Lidge this year vs. last. Saying this i do have to agree with the dont trust Coke crowd.
SJ
I think that you’rewrong about the likelihood of the Yanks going into the season with Joba and Hughes in the rotation…If they resign Pettite i think that is exactly what they will do…
There is no way that they suffered through the Joba rules last year with a plan to turn him loose this year and then scrap that and put him in the pen when for stretches of last season he was there 2nd/3rd best starter…and they will not retard Hughes development one more year to waste his ability in the pen to placate fans.
There are 15 pitchers including Bruney(who was lights out before his injury) that they have in the organization who they could make a 1 inning reliever…it’s a waste to keep Hughes there unless you are giving up on him as a starter
isn’t it mike gonzalez…?
S.O.S. -
I didn’t remember that. All I remember is the Ben Sheets saga, and that was dave and I guess some others.
Anyway, would they need 3 lefties in the bullpen? Would be interesting. Or does that mean that one of the ones they have is expendable????
Something’s definitely afoot, and it’s not something any of us have come up with.
Detroit’s GM did speak up and say they are not having a “fire sale.” So I guess what’s happening is he let people know that perhaps some players that he wouldn’t normally entertain offers for, he’ll be entertaining offers for. That probably means Granderson won’t be a cheap trade date.
Melancon was always put in situations that the rate of success was minimuim at beast….Throwing strike 1 was his source of trouble…..I watched him a few years ago when he dominated the Pac 10, and he’ll be fine…He’ll go to camp with a real shot of going north with the club…He’s a keeper type reliever…..It’s just that Giradi called his number in high risk situations…..
Who’s to say if Doc will want to go to LA? Word is that his preference is to play for an East Coast team who trains in Florida – the Dodgers don’t fit any of these criteria. I doubt he would sign an extension to play in LA…..so then, why would the Dodgers make that deal? Also, the McCord divorce has apparently thrown things into a tizzy there……..
So, yes, it is Mike Gonzalez. I should get credit for the “m” sound and the “k” sound, “mark” wasn’t too far off from “mike.”
Rumor has it that the SF Giants will market Tim Lincecum as “The Midnight Toker”. He’ll be signing autographs and tie-dyed t-shirts at the corner of Haight and Ashbury.
betsy -
Just reporting what I heard.
I still don’t think the Yankees will be the one who ends up with Halladay.
Don’t know who will.
Vinny B
if you really have been follwing the Yanks minor leagues since ’01 then you are aware of the fact that melancon since coming back from TJ surgery has been one of the top 3 PITCHERS not just relievers in the organization and 3 bad innings of his first 15innings doesn’t change that.
Damn Hippies!
I’ll believe the Yankees will put 2 young guys in the rotation again when I see it.
They did it in 2008 and it was a disaster. I’m of the school Cashman learned his lesson.
If he was so gung ho about doing that, he would have told both Hughes and Chamberlain in their exit meetings to prepare to start next year. He told neither guy that in their exit interviews. He also wouldn’t be calling Toronto to inquire about Halladay.
Could it happen? Sure it could. Will it happen? Very unlikely for a myriad of reasons, IMO.
I didn’t remember that. All I remember is the Ben Sheets saga, and that was dave and I guess some others.
=========
Doreen,
If Dave was in that discusion. It must have been a movie followed by 3 sequals, finished off with 3 more prequals. The man knows how to punch that key board.
champ:
for the record, have intently followed Melancon’s career since NYY selected him from University of Arizona. And i remain VERY high on him. However, to this point he is no David Robertson (who has been superman from the time he turned pro)
“My preference would be to obtain a grade A type CF…I know I’ll get drilled on this, however I view Curtis Granderson as a A type centerfielder……Having him patrolling CF in Yankee Stadium would be outstanding….He’s taylor made for the place & hitting in that lineup he’d excell beyond anything he’s accomplished to date….Well 23 triples is incredible.”
Pat M.–
Attached are his 2008 situational stats where he hit lefties at a .259 clip. You can go to the link and look at his stats, salary over the last 6 years.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/p.....008/393076
I’m in total agreement with you!! Watched a highlight film of the best clutch outfield catches this past year and Granderson jumped up at the wall, reached over and snagged a sure homer off Verlander. When is the last time you saw any of our OF’ers last year make that play???
If Damon returned to bat 2nd and play some LF, with late inning defensive replacement, Granderson in CF, Melky in RF, and Swisher as DH, we would seriously have an upgrade in outfield defense plus no loss of slugging percentage, with an increase in team speed.
Count me in on Granderson!!!!!!
Cameron has no heart? Based on what?
SJ, I actually think Phil will struggle in the rotation because he should have started this year. He’s now been set back with his stint in the pen. He lost whatever confidence he had gained by his great year, he has no change and his curve disappeared. I believe he will be an oustanding starter, but when does his career start? We talk about Bucholz being 26 already, but Phil will be 24 next year…he’s got to start.
I agree that the pen is not a priority…but only because there are higher priorities. I agree with your points about having faith – so I have faith in Robertson and Marte for the most part. I have no faith in Phil Coke or Bruney (not sure he’s healthy at all – don’t like his attitude) and Aceves worries me. I guess we’ll see how it pans out, but I don’t love it at all.
“Does Andy make it to the hall of fame if he retires now? Leads in most wins in the playoffs but not in the upper 200’s in wins.”
Nah, Hall of Very Good… but I can see him getting elected by the Veteran’s committe many years from now.
Champ,
Just because he was rated that in 2008, doesn’t mean he’s rated that way today. Rating are not Supreme Court Justice-like lifetime appointments. They change based on production.
Jose Tabata at one time was the crown jewel of the Yankees farm system. He’s now driving the Pirates nuts.
David Robertson passed Mark Melancon on the depth chart this year. He was an important part of the bullpen on a World Championship team.
Melancon is 2 1/2 years removed from TJ Surgery. The surgery isn’t why he struggled with the big club.
He struggled because he didn’t pitch well. It happens.
Doesn’t mean he can’t turn it around. However, it does mean he’s not rated ahead of David Robertson by anybody in baseball at this time. Certainly not by the Yankees.
There is no way i can see the Yankees repeating the 08 season by going into the year with 2 young bloods in the 5 man rotation. I would hope Cash has learned that the hard way. Especially not knowing what to expect from both Hughes and Joba. Joba was eratic the second half of the year and Hughes was a different pitcher in the playoffs. I like the have them compete for one of the spots and the consolation prize being the bullpen to the loser of the two.
Look at the totality of Curtis Granderson’s career and not just his 2008 splits.
The guy is a helluva player. He can play on my team anytime.
I’m against paying significant $$ for relievers. We have plenty, and it would take away from $$ to spend for another starter, and to replace the departing offense. Plus, look what the Yanks got last year from Marte’s $4MM. Too much risk, IMO.
I’m with the folks who think Cashman will get another starter. A rotation of CC, AJ, Andy, Joba and Hughes, with Gaudin (maybe) or Kennedy (maybe) backing them up isn’t near deep enough for the risk it comes with (and there is plenty of risk in that rotation).
if you really have been follwing the Yanks minor leagues since ‘01 then you are aware of the fact that melancon since coming back from TJ surgery has been one of the top 3 PITCHERS not just relievers in the organization and 3 bad innings of his first 15innings doesn’t change that
———————————————-
exactly. Did i even mention Melancon’s performance this year? Nope. Melancon’s limited innings at the ML level mean nothing. One way or the other. You’re the person who mentioned the Boston game, not me. I remain high on Melancon, and only move him in the right trade
Doreen, I think every team is interested to some degree in Halladay. Heyman said the Dodgers were interested….I’ve no idea where he will land.
SJ, if that is the case, then I hope the Yankees trade Phil. He’s completely wasted in his pen, he’s made no progress as a starter thanks to injuries and unfortunate circumstances (he seems star-crossed, to be honest. He never should have been promoted early in 2007 as he wasn’t ready – Cashman made a mistake. Ok, the rotation was decimated; instead of rushing a prize prospect, he should have made a deal or two. Then, he was supposed to start 2009 in AAA, get his innings in and be ready to go in 2010. Again, bad luck – Wang got hurt and he was forced into the pen).
SOS, Joba would beat Phil out because Phil is behind him in his development – it’s not fair, but that’s the way it is. You put Phil in the pen and you retard his development – it’s a waste of time and he might as well be traded for Doc if that’s the case.
Signing an Atlanta Brave pitcher. Count me as WARY!!
Jared Wright
Chris Hammond
Kyle Farnsworth
I’ve seen Gonzalez pitch and am not impressed. Looks like an arm injury waiting to happen and after his release falls off the mound to 3rd.
Only FA pitcher the Braves had and didn’t want to retain that worked out for us was Mike Stanton. Can anyone think of any other in the last 15 years???
Andy’s in the Hall of the Very Good now, but if pitches another couple of years he’ll be in the HOF entrance hall, at least. Andy will come back, he’s just playing a little hard to get right now.
“My preference would be to obtain a grade A type CF…I know I’ll get drilled on this, however I view Curtis Granderson as a A type centerfielder……Having him patrolling CF in Yankee Stadium would be outstanding….He’s taylor made for the place & hitting in that lineup he’d excell beyond anything he’s accomplished to date….Well 23 triples is incredible”
—————————————————
co-signed.
if NYY did nothing this off-season except land Curtis Granderson, i would be very happy with the NYY front office.
Betsy,
The Yankees don’t win the World Series this year if Phil Hughes doesn’t go to the bullpen. It also changed the direction of his career because he experienced real, long term success at the major league level for the first time.
You never discount that when dealing with young arms.
Back in the day, young pitchers started in the bullpen to learn their craft.
I think Hughes will be the 5th starter next year. I also think going to the pen will make him a better starter.
It certainly was a big reason why the Yankees won this year. In that regard, it was the best thing for him AND the team in 2009.
I to say that there’s no way the Yanks break camp with both Hughes & Chamberlain in the rotation…One of them will fill the vacancy that Pettite leaves after the 2010 season…..There’s 2 ares that Cashman will upgrade this winter, he’s going to upgrade the OF ( centerfield ) and then the rotation……If they let Matsui walk then he must find a quality hitter ( Holliday ) to protect Alex…..It’ll be interesting to watch Cashman this off season, as he’s never really made any off season trades other than the Swisher deal…..
“2. At the ML minimum salary he is a nice player – when he starts making more in arbitration the Yankees will drop him like a turd sandwich.”
Melky made about 4 times more than the minimum last year. He’ll make even more next year and the Yankees haven’t dropped him yet.
Not to mention the fact that he JUST turned 25. He could very well get better next year as evidenced by the fact that this year he hit right handed pitching better than he ever had before.
This was also the first year of his career that he slugged over .400 for a full year.
You have no idea what Melky’s career arc will be.
Betsy,
I was one who was never into the Joba stay in the pen talk. But after seeing his velocity go down(not sure if it was him pacing himself, lack of offseason work or what)this season and him letting it fly in the pen in the playoffs. I wouldnt be opposed to having Hughes and Joba role reverse next year.
SJ44-
“Look at the totality of Curtis Granderson’s career and not just his 2008 splits.
The guy is a helluva player. He can play on my team anytime.”
You probably meant his 2009 splits as 2008 he hit lefties much better. I totally agree, and whether Damon comes back or not I definitely would love to see him patrolling CF!!
Trader,
Yes, it was a typo on my part.
Curtis Granderson at Yankee Stadium would be a force offensively and defensively.
If they don’t re-sign Damon and acquired Granderson, they could move Melky to LF and that would be a solid OF both offensively and defensively. It will also cost less for all three guys than what Matt Holliday may make on the FA market, give or take a few million.
That’s cost effectiveness.
“One of Phil or Joba will be in the pen. I know folks don’t want to believe it but, Cashman is not going into the season with 2 young guys in the rotation.”
I disagree. The Yankees won 103 games last season with Joba as the 4th starter and a combination of a terrible Wang, Hughes, Mitre, and Gaudin in the 5th rotation spot. There’s no reason to think that a Joba/Hughes combination can’t outperform what the Yankees got from the back of the rotation in 2009.
I think it’s fair to expect that Joba will at the very least put up the same numbers he did last season, and most likely improve.
Look at the production the Yankees got from the 5th spot in the rotation: 32 starts, 147 IP, 6.91 ERA. If Hughes can’t do better than that, then he shouldn’t be on the Yankees.
A 2010 rotation of CC, AJ, Pettitte, Joba, and Hughes is an improvement on the 2009 rotation. Even if Pettitte regresses from 2009, which he probably will, AJ, Joba, and Hughes should be able to pick up the slack.
Would you guys take a run at any of these former Aces?
Harden
Sheets
The lefty from the M’S B?
The Blue Jays have some of their arms returning next season. Wouldn’t be surprised if they hold onto Halladay, if no-one is making an offer they like, until the July trading deadline, when some teams have a clearer picture of their needs to contend, where they should get the same or better value for him.
I just don’t want us to give them a Hughes/Joba choice with Montero thrown in plus some other prospects, and then have to placate him with a 23-24M/year contract extension for a soon to be 33 yo pitcher.
I agree with the idea that both Joba and Phil will not be in the starting rotation to start the season in 2010. That’s if Andy Pettitte doesn’t retire.
If Roy Halladay is in the rotation and Pettitte retires, I can see them sticking with both Joba and Phil in the rotation because all three of their 1-3 starters can go a minimum of 6, and usually into 7 or 8 innings, thus, not being a burden on the bullpen.
If Andy does not retire, he is at most a 6-inning pitcher. With the innings limit on Hughes, he will be a 6-ish inning pitcher. And you don’t know what you’re getting with Joba yet. If he’s in shape and pre-shoulder injury Joba, he can go 7 or 8. But if he’s 2009 Joba, ouch! That would be 3 guys pitching consecutively in the rotation that will tax the bullpen.
If Andy does not retire AND they get Halladay, well, then there’s just no room for one of them.
I can see Joba getting traded before Phil, of the two. And I think it’s because of how other teams will perceive them. I think Joba can be seen either as a guy the Yankees messed with and other teams will think they can get him straightened out, or they will be of the camp that thinks Joba should be a reliever and groom him strictly as such.
And I think if they don’t trade Kennedy, he will be given time in the bullpen as well, conintinuing his development there, rather than to start as a starter, but probably not to start the season. Of the 3, I still think Kennedy’s going to be the “surprise.”
Heyman saying that the Yanks called Toronto means nothing and actually Cash has a responsibilty to make the call.
Tabata is not driving the Pirates nuts he’s actually 21yrs old and will play at their AAA level this year and actually happens to be one of the better players in Arizona right now.I’m sure they are happy with his production considering he’s playing 2 levels ahead of where he should be.
If you want to know where Robertson is ranked in terms of Yankees prospects i can provide you the link to PInstripesplus from scouts.com that has the rankings and you will see Melancon #6
http://yankees.scout.com/2/919267.html
And you guys need to get over 2008 it’s 2010 and Joba’s made 43 starts since then…nothing like ’08 when Hughes and Kennedy had 7 starts between them. Geez!
Melancon will be fine. He’s only had one sample of poor control in his career and it was in his rookie year in the bigs, and not much of a sample. He and Robertson are pretty similar when they’re going good and if they’re both in the pen it will be to our benefit.
What else? There’s no way the Yanks would go into a season with Melky starting in a corner OF spot.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Granderson is obtained and Melky is part of the price.
I agree Granderson is pretty good, but I’m not wild about him.
OPS for the last three years: .913 .858 .780
BA for the last three years: .302 .280 .249
OPS+ for the last three years: 135 123 100
See a pattern? I know his HRs have increased, but overall the trend makes me nervous.
Someone a few days ago who said he lives close enough to the Detroit area to be able to follow the team (forgot his posting name) said that Granderson was asked to change his batting approach to supply more power. I asked him a follow-up on this, but he never answered.
So, is that a possibility? That Granderson was asked by the Tigers to do something different at the plate in 2009? That could account for the raise in HRs and the lowering of other stats. No?
S.o.S.-
“Would you guys take a run at any of these former Aces?
Harden
Sheets
The lefty from the M’S B?”—–Brandon Morrow??
1st 2 are FA’s
Harden best strikeout rate ever, more walks however, and a 5 inning pitcher with injury history who will probably get a 2-3 year contract-so NO!!
Sheets-Only if it’s an incentive laden deal after seeing him pitch.
Brandon Morrow-No!!
Phil-
“I wouldn’t be surprised if Granderson is obtained and Melky is part of the price.”
I’m not sure the Tigers, if in a cost cutting mode[although denied], would want an arbitration eligible player in return!
According to the Post, Swish is not on the block:
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....FTA0EY6tlL
“Does Andy make it to the hall of fame if he retires now? Leads in most wins in the playoffs but not in the upper 200’s in wins.”
I’d say no way. But the Hall is now so full of very good players who hung around a long time I guess he belongs.
SOS….Ben Sheets would be my pick…Joe from Long Island brought this up yesterday, and I think Ben Sheets could be the best signing of this off season……
The pattern with Granderson is directly related to his inability against hitting lefties….initially Leland used to sit him against lefties particularly the better ones the last couple of years he has thrown him out there everyday and his holes against lefties have become bigger and more easily exploitable and as a result his #’s have plummeted to the point that he’s an automatic out against them.
champ809……Are you describing Paul O’Neill ????
Brandon Morrow is a right handed pitcher not a lefty…the Mariner’s lefty was Washburn and that’s a hell no!
Betsy,
“The Yanks pen consists of Mariano, Bruney, Coke, Marte, Aceves, Robertson…….how is that a strength again? We won’t have Phil there and I do not like Coke.”
So you’re assuming that Joba and Hughes are both in the rotation next season?
I’d be pretty surprised to see them do that, but they have to sooner or later.
I guess it depends on what they do on the trade/free agent market.
Yankee Trader, maybe not. But, just the same, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s a Yankee soon.
Sorry Yankee Trader. It was Bedard who i was referring to.
Im not thrilled with his attitude but when healthy, he is a force. I would probably go with Sheets out of the 3 though.
If they are talking about Schilling going into the hall, than why not Pettitte?
With regards to Granderson we have one of the best hitting coaches around, a former lefty himself, so IMHO, he would be a low risk with greater upside potential.
If Damon doesn’t return, who bats second??
O’Neill never struckout at the rate that Granderson does he was much better at making contact with the ball vs lefties than Grandy.
I like Grandy as a player but i don’t want to give up too much to get him
I’d put Cano in the 2 hole and let him feast on fastballs in front of Tex and ARod
I’d bat Cano or Swisher second.
What do you guys think about talking to our old friend Torre and maybe if we miss out on any of these prized outfielders. Maybe making a trade for a Pierre and have the Dodgers eat some of his contract. I would prefer him over Gardner on the bench and the Dodgers have Manny blocking him. I know he doesnt have outstanding numbers. But he would be a threat on the bases and hits better than Gardner for the chances he gets at the plate.
“If they are talking about Schilling going into the hall, than why not Pettitte?”
S.o.S.-
Sheets would be my choice on an incentive laden deal.
As far as your question- Schilling hasn’t admitted “yet” to the use of PEDs and Pettitte has. Schilling was another pitcher Clemens talked to about conditioning!
Cash has already said the gloves are off for Joba and Hughes. They will both be in the rotation next season, either in the majors or AAA. Neither in the BP.
Andy Pettitte will finish his career as a Yankee.
Clemens convinced Andy to come to Houston but that ship has sailed. I’ll bet they rarely cross paths anymore.
And Cash also did tell both Hughes and Joba prepare as starters when they report to camp next season SJ…that’s from Cash’s mouth
16.75M guaranteed for Swisher is a lot of money in today’s market. Yanks could put him on irrevocable waivers (as Sox did with Manny after 2003 season) and nobody would pick up the contract. He couldn’t be traded for anything, not without eating part of the contract, which Cashman is unlikely to do.
Neil-
“Andy Pettitte will finish his career as a Yankee.
Clemens convinced Andy to come to Houston but that ship has sailed. I’ll bet they rarely cross paths anymore.”
Andy was signed by the Astros first, Clemens was retired after receiving a BIG “Hummer” from the Yankees. Andy talked him into coming to the Astros since he lived nearby and they were still friends and training together.
Jerkface,
That reminds me of the line. Crosby is our centerfielder. Stealth is Stealthyish with his words.
Andy was convinced by his wife to go to Houston. Not his boyfriend.
As far as your question- Schilling hasn’t admitted “yet” to the use of PEDs and Pettitte has. Schilling was another pitcher Clemens talked to about conditioning!
Schilling nor Mussina nor Pettitte should be in the Hall.
Schilling and PEDs? He wasn’t the one with McNamee as his trainer for 9 years. But with some juicers probably already in the Hall (I would guess guys who had their best years very late in life – Molitor and Eckersley) it probably doesn’t matter that Pettitte used PEDs.
“they were still friends and training together.”
I love that term, training together. You mean injecting each other.
There have been discussions about this in the past.
David Cone is comparable to Schilling in many respects, statistics-wise, and leads Schilling in some stats.
Schilling played most of his career in the NL and Cone played most of his career in the AL. If Cone cannot get in, then Schill should not get in.
But as with Gammons and the rest of the Boston media lobbying for Jim Rice, WHEN the time comes for them to go to bat for Schill, he will probably end up in the Hall as well.
Peter Gammons has lost his mind.He says the reason the low budget Marlins have had success, because they are Well Run.
Any team that rids itself of players that requires a decent salary/contract is traded,a fan base that doesn’t support it’s team,and a welfare recipient,who lives off revenue from other successful teams,IS NOT WELL RUN!!
The fact that guys like Mattingly and Gooden, who were SUPERSTARS, have no chance, and people like Mussina and Schilling are discussed, the Hall has obviously jumped the shark and is meaningless. Open the doors for A-Roid and other phonies.
Cashman’s proclamation that both Hughes & Chamberlain will be in the rotation next season sounds like a smokescreen to me……If I’m not buying that I have to believe that most GM’s and agents aren’t swallowing it either…..
This is the production the Yankees got from the bottom of the order in 2009.
4th starter: 31 starts, 157.1 IP, 4.75 ERA
5th starter: 32 starts, 147 IP, 6.92 ERA
The Yankees have to believe that Joba and Hughes can combine to do a lot better than that. Keeping them in the rotation also continues their development that would be slowed down by putting one of them in the pen. Sure, the Yankees will want rotation depth, but they should have that with Gaudin, Mitre, Kennedy, Wang, and Aceves.
Cashman’s proclamation that both Hughes & Chamberlain will be in the rotation next season sounds like a smokescreen to me……If I’m not buying that I have to believe that most GM’s and agents aren’t swallowing it either…..
–
He didnt say rotation, he said as starters. That could be anywhere, but no the bullpen.
* bottom of the rotation in 2009
champ809
November 19th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
I’d put Cano in the 2 hole and let him feast on fastballs in front of Tex and ARod
—–
They still wouldn’t throw them to him and if they did they would throw them high and tight and he’s still swing at them. Until he learns to be patient at the plate and swing at good pitches early in the count he can’t bat that high in the order.
It couldn’t help but be noticed that Joba coming out of the bullpen in the postseason amped up his confidence and mound presence.
Unless he reports to spring training in top physical shape (unlike in ’09) his stamina fades after 4-5 innings of work.
The so called Joba rules are over with and the bullpen may be his forte particularly if a Roy Halladay or Edwin Jackson is obtained VIA the trade route to settle the starting rotation questions.
I want a high OBP guy in the 2 hole, but preferably one that hits for a good BA rather than a guy like Nick. I don’t like Cano there, and I don’t think I’d like Granderson in the #2 or the #1 slot either.
Jeter/Damon have been perfect at the top of the order, which is why I’d like Damon back for at least another year. I’m not sure anyone else out there would be as good in that slot,
YankeeRay,
Agree 100%. Cano showed some patients the beginning of the year and then reverted back to a first pitch swinger.
Stan,
I saw his confidence and that mound presence change as well. I was always pro starter. But now watching him try to pace himself as a starter and with that his velocity drop this season. I wouldnt mind seeing him back in the pen throwing that intimidating 98mph heater.
SJ, no question about it – without Phil, the Yankees don’t sniff first place or a playoff spot. My concern is if he doesn’t win the 5th starter’s spot…If Joba had just been good this year (even without being great), this wouldn’t be an issue. As it is, he’s a ? going into next year… It should be an interesting ST, that’s for sure.
Question to any nba fan. What college did brandon jennings come from? Cant seem to find it.
When did Heyman say that, Champ? He was on with Francesca today and he still thinks it will be between the Sox and Yanks……and he definitely didn’t give the impression in his recent article (or today) that it was just a “we’ll call because we have to, just to say we did” call.
The only thing better than the Basbeall-reference Play Index, is a free trial to the index (which expires tomorrow).
Out of curiosity, I was wondering the most HRs hit in a season that accounted for at least half of the guy’s total RBI.
Meaning – has anyone hit 40 HRs, and had less than 80 RBI?
Interestingly, the number 2 guy on the list, Chris Duncan, had 22 hrs, and 43 rbi in 2006. Sorted by HRs, the totals fall pretty quickly.
592 guys have done it, but the bulk of them simply hit 1 or 2 solo hrs, and didn’t drive in any other runs. Not very interesting.
What is interesting is Barry Bonds tops the list when he hit 73 HRs, and drove in only 137 RBI. That’s 51 MORE hr’s than the 2nd place guy. Of course there a bunch of reasons why he didn’t have more HRs:
He got walked 177 times (35 intentional)
Marvin Bernard was the most common leadoff man – and he had an awful OBP
It’s the NL, so the pitcher’s spot was also hitting not far ahead of Bonds.
http://www.baseball-reference......&pusa=
If you haven’t had the chance to mess around with the play index yet, I encourage you to do so. Free trial ends tomorrow.
“Question to any nba fan. What college did brandon jennings come from? Cant seem to find it.”
He went from HS to Europe. Didn’t have much success in Europe – had a hard time getting playing time. But that’s the way it works over there.
Juan Pierre sucks.
“SJ, no question about it – without Phil, the Yankees don’t sniff first place or a playoff spot.”
Hughes was certainly an important piece of the team during the season, but don’t get carried away. The Yanks finished 8 games ahead of Boston, and 16 games ahead of the wild card.
Hughes wasn’t worth that many extra wins, not even close.
Mad Prince, yeah – I’m assuming both Joba and Phil are in the rotation….
S.o.S…..I’m positive that Jennings didn’t go to College…He was to young to be drafted and went to Europe to play until he was age eligible for the NBA Draft….His numbers weren’t very good in Europe, as he rode the pine….Unless I’m confusing him with another 1st rounder
Jennings didn’t got to college. He played in Europe and the Knicks very obviously never got a sufficient look at him.
Thanks fellas. Amazing. The kid is averaging 24 points a game and i never heard of him before. Im sure his European coach is having to answer to that right about now with one foot out the door.
Phil,
Pierre for a 4th outfielder? .301 lifetime average and doesnt strikeout much. As you can see im not much of a Gardner fan.
Bring Andy back, Cash! No matter what, Andy should always be a Yankee.
Dodgers want Bay and Halladay according to Mlbtraderumors.Glad Bay rejected the Sawx offer just because the Dodgers want him too.
Beat writer’s Joe Strauss,and Bernie Miklasz at the the St Louis Post Dispatch,are now on radio and in the paper calling Matt Holliday Only An Average Defender.Looks like Boras made them angry with his hinting at 6 yrs at 180M for Matt.
Maybe the Dodgers can do to the Sox, what the Sox did to them with Drew.
I’m reading the recnt Yogi Berra biography that described Whitey Ford, a childhood favorite of mine, as the Yankees greatest pressure pitcher. Don’t you think Pettitte has a strong argument for that title now?
So iv been trying to avoid watching Twilight(first one)thinking its just a teenage/chick flick. But now they are out with another one. Its hard for me to avoid watching something that brought out a sequal(Watched lord of the rings two towers, before the first one). Is it a chick flick or is it an action flick worth watching?
S.o.S
That’s what I’m hoping,or at least get in a bidding war,the Dodgers can out bid Beantown,if they want to.
S.O.S. -
I read three of the four books.
It’s not only a chick flick, but a teenage girl chick flick, IMO.
Full disclosure – I’ve only seen parts of the first movie, but I will watch it this weekend and then go with my daughter to see the 2nd movie.
I read three of the books in 2 days. I expect to finish the 4th this weekend when my daughter brings it home from school.
They’re fun. But, unless you’re going with a girl (daughter, wife, girlfriend), why go?
austinmac
Give me big game Andy any day!!
Whitey Ford OR Pettitte? That is a tough one. Whitey was great and its really hard to knock him. When you look at the WS games from that era many were low scoring affairs on both sides. When White took the ball you had the same kind of comfort that you have with Andy.
Trouble is there are few here who ever saw Whitey pitch, so Andy will get the nod.
Thanks Doreen for saving me the money. The only times i will get myself to watch chick flicks are in valentines and my wifes birthdays. Last one was the girlfriends ghosts of the past(dont have the title down)with Matthew Mcgonehey and Ben Gardners wife. Have to admit, it wasnt that bad. The prior time was that movie attonement and she was upset that i took her to a sad ending movie. Hillarious. I was hoping after that movie she wouldnt want to see anymore.
There was actually a decent sized hoopla last year about how Brandon Jennings’ foray into Europe could open another option for US kids outside of the NCAA business to meet the NBA’s age req. He was the most hyped HS graduate at the time, I believe.
I saw Twilight last year as I was in Ecuador and there was no other movie in English.
Horrible decision.
1.No way damon will be happy as the everyday DH
2.Do not sign cameron
3.Joba has to stay in the pen,He has the perfect mindset to be in the bullpen
4.Melancon…..trade bait
Say Damon doesnt return what should the yankees do about LF?