Selig: Postseason will have fewer breaks
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Nov 19, 2009 
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Interesting story here about Bud Selig saying he will attempt to reduce the number of off-days during next year’s postseason – an issue that players, coaches, managers (particularly Mike Scioscia) and fans all seemed to agree got a little out of control during this past month.
“We’re going to change it,” Selig said. “I don’t disagree with Mike Scioscia. I think he was right, so we’re going to try and tighten that up.”
By my count, the Yankees played 15 games in 36 days during the postseason. I understand that TV is a factor in anything, but that’s just ridiculous. The postseason in any sport should at least somewhat resemble the regular season that precedes it, and playing baseball every other day for a month just doesn’t do that.
“When you plan the playoff schedule, you don’t know how many games the first round would go. So it’s difficult,” Selig said. “There were clubs that sat around. Some were necessary, but some were not.”
Selig also mentions instant replay (nothing new) and that he’s interested in reworking the draft (he wants a slotting system to regulate signing bonuses).
that’s one of the reasons why the Yanks are going after more pitching.
“here are some FACTS for all of the Joba’s never going to be anything fans out there that want to dump him for Halladay the greatest pitcher of all time”
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‘champ’: have been following Chamberlain & Hughes from the time they were drafted, as the majority of posters have.
this have nothing to do with ‘waking-up’. In my view, i make Joba available for Doc Holladay for 3 factors:
1) the player is Doc Holladay
2) Joba’s injury history is a very big concern
3) frankly his makeup is a concern as well. And every indication is he is living off his 2007 press clippings. yup.
Hard slotting is a move in the wrong direction and I doubt the players association would allow it
How about instead of a mandatory slotting system, you work it like the luxury tax.
You have a recommended slotting bonus, for whatever amount over that a team, for example the Yankees, goes they have to pay that much in tax to the league.
For example the 27th pick is recommended $1 Million and the Yankees pay him $2 Million.
Then the Yankees owe the league another $1 Million on top of that in tax. (The difference in what they paid vs. recommended)
agree 100% with the slot system. Works in basketball. I think that is the only way to relegate these out of control college kids who think they somehow deserve 20 M without playing a day in the pros.
Joba’s injury history is a very big concern
___
Doc has missed time over the last couple years also. It took him months to get past his groin? injury this year. He got hit around pretty good at parts of the middle of this season, plus he is not getting younger.
“How about instead of a mandatory slotting system, you work it like the luxury tax.”
How about instead of that nonsense, there is no draft.
“agree 100% with the slot system. Works in basketball. I think that is the only way to relegate these out of control college kids who think they somehow deserve 20 M without playing a day in the pros.”
Why don’t they deserve it? If a team is willing to pay them that much, they deserve it.
Rookies in the NBA and NFL are paid far more than newly drafted players in baseball.
tex’s friend. Doc is 33 NOT 99. When we got Clemens he was 36
Soscia’s just a whiner who is looking for a reason, any reason, as to why his team lost to the Yankees…
rookies in the nba have a slot system. and i think arguing that someone ‘deserves’ something because a team is willing to pay it is a bad argument. Plus, i didnt say what the slot cost has to be. Maybe 10Mil for the first pick, whatever.
And please send me a list of first pick pitching prospects that have earned the money they asked for in the last 10-15 years.
Strasburg had the Nats by the grapefruits because they couldnt justify losing ANOTHER first pick because they didnt want to pay.
Lets offer Jays a bunch of players just not hughes or joba, like zach macallister and ivan aldo nova + ajax and montero. the farm system is stocked.
and so im clear, i think the nfl is the most out of control draft-wise of them all.
“and i think arguing that someone ‘deserves’ something because a team is willing to pay it is a bad argument.”
Why? That’s how a free market works.
Sometime in the next couple of years, some agent will convince a young player to sue baseball and break the draft system and win. Baseball has had the anti-trust exemption for 100 years and that exemption has run it’s course.
Lets offer Jays a bunch of players just not hughes or joba, like zach macallister and ivan aldo nova + ajax and montero. the farm system is stocked.
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Toronto isnt just going to give Doc away. They arent the Pirates. I dont know about you but i think Montero has too much upside to want to face him 18 times a year.
from our former blog master:
There is too much standing around in the postseason. There were extra off days in the middle of series and too many days after the end of the regular season.
The Yankees should not have been able to get away with using only three starters. No team should. The game should be the same one played during the season. Angels manager Mike Scioscia complained about it and it seems Bud Selig was listening.
“We’re going to change it,” Selig told reporters in Chicago today. “I don’t disagree with Mike Scioscia. I think he was right, so we’re going to try and tighten that up. When you plan the playoff schedule, you don’t know how many games the first round would go. So it’s difficult. There were clubs that sat around. Some were necessary, but some were not.”
MLB added extra days off in 2007 at the request of the TV networks.
end of pete’s column…
While I agree with eliminating the extra days off, how exactly is that the Yankees fault?
Clemens isn’t a good barometer, remember- he wasn’t exactly all natural.
free market is what they are willing to pay and thats fine, but that doesn’t mean the deserve it.
AIG CEO gets hundreds of millions a year. Find me someone who thinks they deserve it just because thats what they happen to make.
I agree that if they will pay it, they should get it, but i dont think that means they deserve it.
just comparing the two, but i do agree that players should get what they can get. i know i would.
you don’t have to use Clemens. You can use Cone. Wells . El Duque . Jimmy Key , all mid 30 guys.
age shouldn’t be an argument. prospects should be
I wonder if Pete would feel the same way if his precious sox won the division and got the long series.
SJ, then why didn’t the Yankees trade for Halladay last year?
I just would not give up the package you suggested – Melancon, Romine, McAllister, Hughes/Joba. We don’t need Halladay……I really don’t get why we spent so many years agonizing over the Yankees not having any farm system and not developing young players when it turns out that we just want to trade them for aging veterans.
I’m not sure that Hughes or Joba trumps Bucholz. You said yourself (or was it CB?) that the Jays don’t like Joba..they prefer Phil. As much as I love Phil, Bucholz has proved much more as a starter than Phil has. I don’t recall you being for the trade last year, but now you are? Why the change of heart?
In any case, I do not believe Cashman will trade Hughes, so this is all moot.
A draft is anything but a free market. It is the collectively bargained manner by which players enter the industry of the sport they wish to pursue.
A slotting system and international draft makes perfect sense, but you also have to allow the trading of picks. That protects a team in the event that the “slot for the # 1 pick is negotiated to be $ 7.5 Million and the team with the pick doesn’t feel that there’s a player worth that money. The Nats, for example should have the right to trade that spot instead of being forced to pay those $$$.
I would have pick-by-pick slots for the first 100 players/three rounds and round by round slots after that. I also think they should cap the draft at 15 rounds.
The NFL intends to make that happen in their next CBA too.
NBA is 2 rounds, MLB draft is what – 18? That’s a lot of slotting to go through. Plus you can still give out signing bonuses in the MLB draft unlike NBA.
Instead of slotting I think teams should be able to deal draft picks. As I said the other day, on the one hand you could have a situation where teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, etc…would deal up year after year to try to get the Steven Strausburgs of the world – but on the other hand, consider what the Nationals would have gotten for that pick. Wouldn’t a haul of established prospects (and maybe a major leaguer) do more for their long term than investing a large chunk of their budget into one draft pick?
I’m sure though that draft slotting will be one of the sticking points for the 2011 CBA negotiations.
I dont get why everyone is so high on Clay Buchholz. He beat the Blue Jays and Orioles i think 3 times each, and Tampa once? I’m sorry, but beating up on the orioles and blue jays is hardly a barometer of being a great pitcher.
Show me his stats against the Yankees, Angels and other +.500 teams.
betsy-I agree, I really don’t see the Yankees trading for Hallady this winter. When he’s a free agent it will probably be a different story, but I just don’t see them doing it now.
Slotting is BS. If someone wants to pay someone more to get their services thats up to them.
Three things I know for certain about the next CBA:
1. It will not have a salary cap
2. It will not have a salary floor
3. It will not have an international draft
The only sticking point will be draft slotting and I don’t even think that will happen.
About half the teams in baseball love international free agents and the ability to go “above slot” to sign draft picks.
In the grand scheme of things both are less expensive than spending on established free agents and represent a way for teams to build their farm systems (which in turn leads to having more homegrown talent, which means cheaper rosters)
Also the difference in baseball than football is that in football, you have to declare and once you do that, you cannot go back to play college. baseball, that is an option if they do not like what they are offered or the team that drafts them.
“A draft is anything but a free market. It is the collectively bargained manner by which players enter the industry of the sport they wish to pursue.”
Which is why I think there should be NO draft.
I dont mind them cutting out the off days. In my opinion, the days off between rounds are insane. They need to be more flexible in that regard.
However, I think that the Yanks winning with 3 pitchers is the REAL reason why this is being done. If someone like Tampa won with only three starters, baseball wouldnt make any changes.
A hard slotting system would hurt the Yanks.
“NBA is 2 rounds, MLB draft is what – 18?”
50 actually
Speaking of trades – here’s one we may not like so much but could happen:
Detroit gets: Jon Papelbon, Mike Lowell, Clay Bucholtz, Lars Anderson
Boston gets: Miguel Cabrera
Ken Rosenthal suggested this – if Detroit wants to cut some payroll wouldn’t moving Cabrera be a possibility? The trade would still allow Detroit to be a playoff contender while giving Boston a young, impact bat.
Would you guys wanne trade joba,a-jax,romine and kennedy to get Doc?Isn’t that a bit too much?
Ray, I’m in complete agreement with your post in the previous thread. I’ve always been a Phil Hughes fan and I would not trade him……I wouldn’t trade Joba either. On most boards, fans believe Phil’s ceiling is very limited (that it’s not what it once was) and they are very willing to trade him. The Yankees feel differently and that is why I do not believe they will trade him. I think it’s ridiculous to give up such arms for Doc…….they don’t have to turn out to be Doc for any non-deal to be a good one. If they turn out to be very good pitchers for a long time, that’s all the Yankees could ask for.
Patrick -
Well there you go – 50 rounds. I can’t see someone sitting there figuring out what the slotting numbers for that many players should be.
“free market is what they are willing to pay and thats fine, but that doesn’t mean the deserve it. ”
Okay but who really gets paid what they deserve? If you want to assign salary to everyone in the world and base it on what they deserve then really shouldn’t teachers, police, firefighters, doctors, nurses, engineers and scientists be making millions? Frankly, they deserve to be paid the most.
Unfortunately the world isn’t fair and athletes, actors, CEO’s, etc make the most money. Creating a hard slotting system in baseball is artificially limiting the earning of young players.
It works in football and basketball because those guys are in the pros immediately after being drafted except for a few exceptions. That increases their earning potential and limits a lot of risk for the teams paying them.
If you want a hard slotting system, bonuses would have to increase for rounds 2-50 and there would have to be a higher minor league minimum salary. In the end, a hard slotting system would end up costing teams much more money.
MLB won’t stop trying to handcuff the Yankees (hard slotting system) until doing so ends up hurting MLB by drying up the cash cow.
Pete is a bitter old man who’s opinions mean exactly nothing. He’s catering to his audience – pathetic. I do not believe he would say anything to that effect if he were still here. He’s not a very good journalist in that way – he’s got no convictions. Ok, nuff on Pete.
Speaking of trades – here’s one we may not like so much but could happen:
Detroit gets: Jon Papelbon, Mike Lowell, Clay Bucholtz, Lars Anderson
Boston gets: Miguel Cabrera
Ken Rosenthal suggested this – if Detroit wants to cut some payroll wouldn’t moving Cabrera be a possibility? The trade would still allow Detroit to be a playoff contender while giving Boston a young, impact bat.
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As A Yankee fan i’d love if that trade went down
However, I think that the Yanks winning with 3 pitchers is the REAL reason why this is being done. If someone like Tampa won with only three starters, baseball wouldnt make any changes.
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I dont see why it matters we had pitchers on 3 days rest. Shouldnt our pitchers being on short rest be an advantage to the opponent?
It is really old when people say the yankees are hurting baseball when in many of these stadiums they are the only reason people come to see the games. Yankees and Sox make more money for the small market teams than they do for themselves, then they pocket the profit.
Those owners are bad for baseball.
Buchholz has been just as up and down as Hughes and Joba. And he’s older than they are. He’ll be 26 next season (Hughes will be 24 and Joba doesnt turn 25 until nest Sept).
Chip, Patrick
See my post for a suggested slotting system for baseball. You should only go pick by pick for maybe three rounds.
If there was no draft in any pro sport that would probably good for New York teams, except of course for the Knicks who can screw up a one car funeral.
No draft would be a disaster, but shortening the draft to 15 rounds would be reasonable.
A slotting system would help the poor and middle market teams because cost certainty would let them select based purely on talent. However you must include trading options with the slotting system so they can deal the pick for something/someone they deem more valuable.
We have a luxury with Hughes and Joba. If they fail as starters, they will succeed in the bullpen. They have both proven they can dial it up in the 8th inning role.
I have seen nothing that would suggest the same about Buchholz. And as you said, he is older than both Hughes and Joba.
No matter, i still think the phillies will end up with halladay anyway and the yankees farm will continue to make the sox depeted system look embarrassing for many years to come.
Jays need two things desperately: (1) close to ML ready prospects; (2) payroll flexibility.
Yankees want to be dominant, as SJ suggests. They did trade Wells for Clemens 10 years ago, so they are unafraid to deal.
This is only for ONE YEAR of Halliday, so the Yankees are really in the drivers seat.
The only competition is the Sox, who (1) really do not have the minor league depth to acquire both Adrian Gonzalez (who they need a lot more) and Halliday for one year; (2) the payroll flexibility to obtain both Gonzales and Halliday this year (next year is a different story for them, with a bit of dead wood coming off of their books).
Angels for Halliday? Maybe, but they would have to give up chips, and commit a lot of $$$$ as well right now. Angels have other concerns as well.
Mets? He wants to got to a winner, so they’re not in it.
Phillies? Possibly, but where are their chips? Happ?
The market is basically two teams, both in the Jays division, both of whom are not exactly willing to give up chips at this moment, knowing that they can bid against each other in the 2010 offseason.
That’s why whoever comes up with a creative way to rid them of Vernon Wells will win this game (if it is even played).
First off, thanks for giving this issue some deserved attention as the playoff schedule was a joke and it had an adverse effect on performance. Ask any player and they’ll tell you they want to play the games with minimal days off, especially in October and November when the weather is colder (and often wetter) than the regular season.
Second, Selig’s team handles the TV negotiations and can certainly make changes – but throughout the postseason, Budlite consistently denied having the ability to make future changes to the schedule. Just another example of his ineptness – he continues to adversely impact baseball and should be pressured to leave!
86 -
Actually a slotting system hurts the poor and middle market teams.
Let’s say there was a hard slot system in place this past year, and, for the sake of round numbers, the most Washington could offer Strasburg was a 3 year 6 mil deal. Strasburg knows he can get more than that – so rather than sign he goes to the Indy league. He can pitch there for a year or two and then he’s a free agent able to sign with the highest bidder. Unlike the NBA where your career is half over in the mid-20s for a MLB player those two years are years he would likely have spent in the minors anyway – so no real loss.
‘Sometime in the next couple of years, some agent will convince a young player to sue baseball and break the draft system and win. Baseball has had the anti-trust exemption for 100 years and that exemption has run it’s course.’
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
To think that a system that has been in place for 100 years is going to come to an end in the next 2 years is an absurdity.
The Constitution has been in effect since 1788.
GreenBeret7, has the Constitution run its course too?
there is one thing. you dont know if a series will go 3-5 games or 4-7. The only way around it is not to have a set schedule until you know when both teams are ready to go to the next round…
What about the Dodgers? Do they have the farm system to make TOR an offer for Halladay?
If Cash wouldn’t deal Hughes, Melky, Marquez for Johan two years ago when he had a weaker rotation why would he deal his top prospects for Halladay now?
“Just another example of his ineptness – he continues to adversely impact baseball and should be pressured to leave!”
I believe that the owners control whether Selig leaves or not and they seem to be relatively happy with him. It’s the fans who think he sucks.
Laura -
They have the farm system but with the ownership problems I don’t see it happening.
halladay ‘prefers’ the east coast. And when you are roy halladay, you tend to get what you prefer…
Doesn’t Halladay have a No-Trade Clause in his contract? If so, then what if he refuses to accept any trade unless the team that deals for him is willing to sign him to a contract extention? Then it becomes Johan Santana all over again.
This is where I dont think the Yankees will get him … how does Cashman justify giving a contract extention to someone coming in from another club, yet he continues to refuse to offer extentions to players on the Yankees in their walk years?
Put yourself in Cashman’s shoes when thinking about Halladay and the Yanks’ offseason moves.
According to Cot’s, the Yanks went into 2009 with a payroll of $206.8MM. From what I read, the Yanks made a profit this year, and with winning the WS their ticket sales ought to stay strong, so I’m thinking the payroll could go up some for 2010, say between $210MM-$215MM. That might be a little high – but I don’t see the Yanks going north of $215MM.
Again according to Cot’s, the Yanks have $166.3MM locked up in 10 players (plus some minor leaguers who don’t figure to be on the big club come April): ARod, DJ, Tex, AJ, CC, Mo, Jorge, Cano, Swisher and Marte.
I’m going to guess they sign Andy to a contract of around $11MM, and they have the following players under control who seem to me likely, barring trades, to open the season in New York (my projected salary for each in parentheses): Melky ($1.75MM), Bruney ($1.25MM), Joba ($.45MM), Gardner ($.43MM), Hughes ($.43MM), Robertson ($.41MM), Aceves (.$.41MM), Coke ($.41MM), Cervelli (.41MM) and Pena ($.41MM).
That would be a total of 21 players, totalling about $183.7MM in salary. The Yanks would need a LF, a DH, a utility guy, and a pitcher, either a starter or a reliever.
I’m thinking Cashman wouldn’t want to go into the season with his 3-5 starters being Andy, Joba and Hughes. He’ll want a starter.
If he trades for Halladay (forget who goes for now), and assume they don’t renegotiate his contract, that will push the payroll up to $201MM, but we still need 3 offensive players, and only have a maximum of $14MM to spend. Plus, if he gives up Joba or Phil, they will need to be replaced and that will cost $$,
If they do renegotiate, assume he gets CC money (approx $23MM), that pushes the payroll up to $208MM, with only $7MM to spend for 3 offensive players (and, perhaps, for Joba or Phil’s replacement).
The Yanks got a tremendous amount of offensive production from LF, DH (and their utility guy) in 2009. It will be extremely difficult to replace it for $14MM, it will be impossible to replace it for $7MM.
So if Halladay is signed, you are looking at a substantially different Yanks club, very strong in pitching, but significantly weaker offensively, without any depth to replace injuries (the way Swisher replaced Nady, for example), and perhaps also needing to replace Joba or Hughes.
Why not look for cheaper pitchers, like Randy Wolf, Joel Piniero, Jason Marquis or Eric Bedard, and then have a stronger offense and bench? We’d be very similar to the 2009 club.
In the middle of November, that’s my guess for Cashman’s direction.
Not if the CBA says you control the player’s rights for four years!
Any slotting system will have that because otherwise you don’t eliminate the threat of staying in college ball or as you suggest going “Indy”.
MLB has finally wised up to the phenomenal waste of money the current system is and the MLBA has to be able to get something good for going along… such as four year FA for minor leagues instead of six or a 26th or 27th slot on the MLB roster or expanding the 40-man to 45.
The key is what will owners give to the veteran players to get them to go along with as favorable a slotting system as possible.
“They have the farm system but with the ownership problems I don’t see it happening.”
Oh, that’s right. There’s that nasty divorce going on.
Chip
November 19th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Speaking of trades – here’s one we may not like so much but could happen:
Detroit gets: Jon Papelbon, Mike Lowell, Clay Bucholtz, Lars Anderson
Boston gets: Miguel Cabrera
Ken Rosenthal suggested this – if Detroit wants to cut some payroll wouldn’t moving Cabrera be a possibility? The trade would still allow Detroit to be a playoff contender while giving Boston a young, impact bat.
———————-
That is an AWFUL trade proposal. It does not make any sense on so many levels. Lets take it player by player.
Miguel Cabrera: One of the best bats in baseball. Probably in the top 5 from a pure offensive standpoint
Papelbon: Approaching free agency and his salary as it stands now is not so cheap. Could get close to 10 million in arbitration this year.
Mike Lowell: $12 million 3rd baseman with a bad hip to go along with $7 million dollar Brandon Inge. That is $19 million at 3rd base for two guys who can barely move.
Clay Bucholz: nice value but nowhere close to Miguel Cabrera
Lars Anderson: Awful in AA this year. Basically has no value right now.
So the Tigers are going to trade one of the top 5 hitters in baseball for that? Keep dreaming Rosenthal.
Why would Halladay prefer the east coast…?You could prefer a certain city or the west coast because of the weather.But the whole east coast…??why
Strange how no one complained when the D’Backs did it in 2001. That being said, the days off hurt Scoscia because the Yankees were able to throw not their starters, but their top relievers in every game. Basically, they are crying about having to face Mariano Rivera for basically six outs in every game.
cashman doesnt have to justify it. all of the yankees who didnt get extensions made out just fine when they ended up signing. This isnt exactly the same thing and i think if thats what it comes down to, rivera, posada and jeter will give their blessings.
I did love how roy halladay said he most feared facting, tex, arod, matsui and co. seems to respect the yankees more than other teams.
Not if the CBA says you control the player’s rights for four years!
Union would never sign off on that.
And to make it worth while for the veteran players would end up costing owners more than going along with the current draft system.
tex’s friend
November 19th, 2009 at 11:56 am
halladay ‘prefers’ the east coast. And when you are roy halladay, you tend to get what you prefer…
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Sabathia was said to “prefer” the west coast.
“Why not look for cheaper pitchers, like Randy Wolf, Joel Piniero, Jason Marquis or Eric Bedard, and then have a stronger offense and bench? We’d be very similar to the 2009 club.”
Wave, that was a good analysis of the situation. And Cash may decide to get a lower tiered guy. I would stay away from Bedard though. He’s injury prone and doesn’t appear to like to play baseball. That is a problem when baseball is your job.
I am not sure that many people know this but there was a Supreme Court case in the late 1950′s, Toolson vs New York Yankees, that challenged the anti trust exemption of MLB in order to remove the reserve clause that prevented players from attaining free agency. As a compromise in this case, in 1960, baseball instituted its amateur draft to prevent the wealthiest team, the Yankees from hoarding all the best players.
So basically, the Supreme Court and MLB cooperated (a rarity indeed) to prevent the Yankees from continuing their baseball dominance. It seems that even in the “golden years” of baseball, everyone hated the Yankees. So if there is any challenge to the baseball’s anti trust exemption, the government and MLB will make sure it negates what few advantages the Yankees have left.
“Mike Lowell: $12 million 3rd baseman with a bad hip to go along with $7 million dollar Brandon Inge. That is $19 million at 3rd base for two guys who can barely move. ”
Okay, that last part really made me laugh.
“Sabathia was said to “prefer” the west coast.”
Turns out that he just really preferred to win.
If you guys had to choose…
Would you want Matsui or Damon back?
Sabathia was said to “prefer” the west coast.
___
touche
matsui.
Roger(live from Amsterdam)
November 19th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
If you guys had to choose…
Would you want Matsui or Damon back?
**********************
Both. I can’t choose.
Bedard: when healthy, throws 100 pitches in 5 innings. Sorry, we dont need the left handed carl pavano. We already have to assume that burnett will be hurt at some point. If you want a guy who is an injury risk, Sheets is worlds better than Bedard. Wolf may be a cheaper option.
I have faith Cashman will make us all proud.
Chip —
Fast forwarding to the end of negotiations might be fun but it’s not the least bit accurate.
The MLBPA has a lot to gain from working out the slotting issue. Teams will have money to spend that is currently going to/wasted on guys who may never play in the bigs.
I don’t know how the numbers will add up, but when ownership and the players both have something to gain finding common ground is likely.
The players are not going to the mattresses over this in MLB or the NFL which is why it will happen.
How many of you think the Yankees would have won the WS if Gaudin/Joba/Aceves had to start 3-5 games during the post season ? I am glad that the extra days worked in the Yankee’s favor but there should be a sense of urgency during the post season and the games should be played with a normal flow to them.
Age is an issue with Halliday. He will be 34 next season. For the Yankees to be willing to give up valuable prospects they would expect to sign him to a contract extension, otherwise he is a 1 yr rental. He would probably want at least 3yrs if not more, taking him to at least age 38. The price will be high, likely 22mm+ per year. What are the odds we get that much value out of him during the back end of the contract ? So there are 2 factors: cost in prospects and return on investment for an ageing pitcher. I don’t see the Yankees paying up in both areas for Halliday. Likely they stick around to drive up the price for whoever aquires him, but secretly hope he becomes a FA after 2010.
I can see a scenerio where Joba would be the centerpiece of a prospect package. At this point Joba’s 2009 performance and attitude may have caused some in managemet to want to see him traded while he still has a high value. Hughes opened some eyes last year and is now viewed as the more valuable of the 2. Hughes stays.
86 –
To give you an idea of what it would take to get the union to go along with this (either hard slotting or controlling the player’s rights for 4 years) I would think the first thing the union would ask for would be to do away with the Arbitration system and have players declared free agents after four years of service time rather than six.
So if you’re an owner – which costs you more – going above slot for a couple of players in the draft or having to sign your players to free agent contracts two years earlier?
Speaking of trades – here’s one we may not like so much but could happen:
Detroit gets: Jon Papelbon, Mike Lowell, Clay Bucholtz, Lars Anderson
Boston gets: Miguel Cabrera
Ken Rosenthal suggested this – if Detroit wants to cut some payroll wouldn’t moving Cabrera be a possibility? The trade would still allow Detroit to be a playoff contender while giving Boston a young, impact bat.
***********************************************************
how would this trade allow Detroit to still be a playoff contender? Replacing a 25yr old Cabrera’s bat with Lowell’s?! he’s 38 playing on one hip who outside of playing in Fenway couldn’t wash and fold Miggy’s jockstrap!!! It’s easy to see why the Tigers would be interested in Bucholtz and Paps but at the expense of the one true elite bat they have in there whole organization? who bats cleanup for them next year? Ryan Raburn? Inge? or Lars Anderson who hit .250 last year in AA?
GB7,
Have you been reading Keith Law’s chats? That is one thing someone brought up in one of his chats.
If a hard slotting system is put in place, I guarantee a high-school prospect will sue major league baseball.
Lets say a hard slotting system is adopted by MLB, here is a hypothetical situation.
Player A is a senior in high school and is drafted 22nd overall by the Texas Rangers. Because of a hard slotting system, he can only get a $1.5 million bonus(i’m making numbers up). Player A says “I don’t want to work in Texas and I’m worth more than $1.5″. Player A then goes to college and sues MLB.
Think about it, in what other industry are you forced to work for a certain company in a certain location at a certain salary? In any other industry in America you can choose where you work and if you get a better offer elsewhere you can leave your current job and go work there.
MLB essentially has a monopoly on professional baseball and if a slotting system is put in place they will get sued.
It is really funny how so many Yankee fans have completely flip flopped when it comes to Joba and Hughes. A year ago Joba was untouchable and now Hughes is to Yankee fans.
I do not want to trade either for Halladay but I would trade Hughes in a second over Joba.
Hughes has more than 3X more innings in the minor leagues than Joba. Yet, he still has yet to really show he can be a big time starter except for flashes here and there. Hughes has only shown he can be just as dominant in the bullpen as Joba.
Joba has shown stretches of greatness as a starting pitcher and this is all with just 88 innings over minor league experience.
Hughes should be FAR ahead of Joba in his development right now but he is not. Joba zoomed through the minor leagues in less than a year while it has taken years for Hughes to be ready to pitch in any fashion in the major leagues. With so experience Joba has shown much more on the big level than Hughes has.
Why do you guys think Hughes is more valuable?
The Clemens trade comparison doesnt work here either.
You think we will get halladay for a wells, homer bush and greame lloyd? This time we would have to give up a lot more talent.
I’ll ask it again:
If Cash wouldn’t deal Hughes, Melky, Marquez for Johan two years ago why would he give up big time prospects to get Halladay this year?
A LOCAL FAN
November 19th, 2009 at 11:50 am
‘Sometime in the next couple of years, some agent will convince a young player to sue baseball and break the draft system and win. Baseball has had the anti-trust exemption for 100 years and that exemption has run it’s course.’
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
To think that a system that has been in place for 100 years is going to come to an end in the next 2 years is an absurdity.
The Constitution has been in effect since 1788.
GreenBeret7, has the Constitution run its course too?
————————————————————
Please explain exactly what anti-trust exemptions have to do with the US Constitution. I’ll give you a hint. NOT A DAMNED THING.
It has to do with monopolizing interstate trade. Baseball deals in interstate trade. It has to do with restricting people from selling their services to whomever they wish. Nobody ever thought the Reserve Clause would be struck down, but, it only took three players and one attorney to shake baseball to it’s core. It’s going to happen.
A new name for today, huh? What a shock!!
Wave Your Hat,
Great analysis. The cost of Halladay is huge in not just how much he will make but how much it will cost to replace the players that depart in a trade for him. Also, if anything Cash has indicated next season that they will lower the payroll, not increase it.
Patrick
November 19th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
GB7,
Have you been reading Keith Law’s chats? That is one thing someone brought up in one of his chats.
————————————————————
No, I don’t read anything by Keith Law. It’s as bad as reading Pete A’s rants and raves.
Yeah Chip I agree. Trading for Halladay goes against everything the Yankees have been trying to do for the last 3 years. A trade for Halladay would pretty much ruin his plan of developing the farm system, getting younger, and lowering the payroll or at least keeping it stable
Chip
November 19th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
I’ll ask it again:
If Cash wouldn’t deal Hughes, Melky, Marquez for Johan two years ago why would he give up big time prospects to get Halladay this year?
**********************
Chip, he won’t
Patrick -
Law’s right about that – but as I said, it’s just not smart business for MLB to go after something like that. The MLBPA will say, “fine, you want more control of salaries for prospects both through hard slotting and an international draft – no problem. We want less service time before players are eligible for free agency.”
That tradeoff would cost the owners 10s of millions each year.
I’d take matsui as well..Matsui protects arod + he’s a clutch hitter.He will probobly take a one year deal as well..unlike Damon
Erin –
Exactly!
It’s more his style to either deal for a player he can control for a few years or to wait and sign a FA next year.
I’m surprised alot of people aren’t mentioning Marlon Byrd. He’s relatively young, coming off a career year, and plays great CF/LF. I think he would be a great fit, and would come at 1/3 the price of a Holiday.
Am I missing something?
Byrd takes over in LF for Damon, and we resign Matsui for one more year. In 2-3 years when Jeter moves to LF, Byrd goes to CF.
Thoughts?
Also I would not be so sure about all these claims that Halladay is showing no signs of decline and can pitch at an elite level for at least 4 to 5 more years.
The past few years his line drive % has been trending upwards, ground balls have been going down, and fly balls have been going up. Not huge changes but there are definitely signs there that it is no guarantee he remains an elite pitcher for 5 years.
Mike was only ticked cause he had to face CC twice.
“While I agree with eliminating the extra days off, how exactly is that the Yankees fault?”
It didn’t seem like anyone was suggesting that the situation with all those the days off was the Yankees fault. They took advantage of the opportunity to realign their rotation, but it wasn’t their fault that there were so many off days.
“While I agree with eliminating the extra days off, how exactly is that the Yankees fault?”
It didn’t seem like anyone was suggesting that the situation with all those the days off was the Yankees fault. They took advantage of the opportunity to realign their rotation, but it wasn’t their fault that there were so many off days
__
I think the question was directed at the donut man pete abe’s blog post.
let’s go yankees-
At the end of the day I suspect Cash won’t lower the payroll. Right now, and not counting Gaudin (or Hinske or Hairston), and assuming they don’t bring Molina back, the payroll really can’t be less than $183.7MM for the 21 guys I mentioned.
If they lower the payroll, that will mean spending less than $23MM to replace Matsui, Damon, find a bench and deal with any pitching upgrade they want.
I’m not saying that’s impossible, but it will certainly be challenging to say the least.
If they signed Byrd, I think it would be as a relatively low cost, short term(3 years) fix. He would bridge the gap to Ajax and other FAs who in the next couple of years who may be more attractive than what is available this year. Also, I think if he comes here, he plays CF, Melky to left. Not a bad idea, though, as a backup plan.
Jeter isn’t moving from shortstop anytime soon. I’m sure that one thing that Jeter wants to accomplish is to become the only shortstop in Major League history to collect 3,000 hits. As long as he plays defense at the level of the last couple of years (on average), he’s not moving to another position.
Pete Abe’s argument about the Ysnkees using 3 pitchers is lame.
They swept Minny only needing 3 pitchers.
CC would have pitched on 3 dats rest in tbd ALCS regardless and in the WS they all were going to pitch in 3 days rest.
Not sure how less off days would have effected the rotation.
Jeter has about 1.5 years before 3,000. amazing.
June 2011
253
Jeter will likey collect #3000 early in the 2011 season. We could potentially see jeter chasing 4000 and arod chasing bonds at the same time in a few years. Now that would be awesome
In a perfect world, I’d keep Matsui AND Damon. Since this world is far from perfect, my vote is for Matsui.
ANSKY
Pete Abe said the Yankees should not have been able to get away w/ only using 3 pitchers, implying that they did something wrong, and that is why there needed to be changes made.
In most years I would think the extra days off would benefit the team w/ the lower payroll. This year it benefited the Yankees. Altho, Scioscia could have done the same thing w/ his pitchers.
The only series that the extra days played a part in was the angels series.
I for one like the idea of Bedard. When he’s on and healthy he can be a dominate pitcher. You can give him like an incentive laden one year contact with a team option for a second one for fairly cheep and maybe the fact that he will get to play for a winning team will motivate him. If he gets hurt or doesn’t pitch well then just deny the option and let him go on his way.
If rather go with sheets than bedard
Just getting back to Sam’s original post. Is anyone else sick of the constant whining of Mike Scioscia since his season ended? He sounds like an ACLU lawyer!
“I for one like the idea of Bedard.”
Bedard has a history for being down on the game. I don’t think his personality will fly in the clubhouse. One of the reasons the Yankees did so well this year is that they all got a long. No one is going to like this guy if he doesn’t like what he’s doing and acts like he wants to be somewhere else. I’ll pass on Bedard.
Pete Abe said the Yankees should not have been able to get away w/ only using 3 pitchers
Wasn’t the story during the playoffs what a mistake Girardi made by only using three pitchers?
Bedard will be cheeper then Sheets
Perhaps the angels lost because they played terrible defense at times and have an awful bullpen. I don’t know maybe that had something to so with it
And – correct me if I’m wrong – but it seems to me that everyone was playing on the same sched in the postseason – so where did the Yankees have an unfair advantage?
I’m not so sure the Red Sox are going to be as “in” on Hallyday as the press would like us to think.
Seeing that they gave Bay a pedestrian offer of 4/60 hours before he hits the market tells me they are still very risk averse when it comes to years and dollars.
Getting Hallyday means they have to pay him. Not only that, but they also have to sign him to justify the price they are going to pay in prospects.
Are the Red Sox willing to commit big dollars and years to any player?
It seems like they only want to work out these hometown discounts. A foolish trend started by some players on their team who are going to live to regret it in coming years.
I think the Red Sox think they are such a hallowed organization all of sudden that players should give back to put the uniform on.
I don’t think Hallyday would ever take one cent less just for the privilege to play there.
I would think he’d be more motivated to play for an organization that spares no expense for it’s stars.
Don’t discount AJ telling him what a first class organization the Yankees are.
That said, the Yankees CANNOT trade Montero this off season.
One of the biggest pressing needs to keeping this team going in later years is the offensive positional advantages we possess over other teams.
A power hitting catcher is paramount to us keeping that advantage.
Once Jorge goes off into the sunset, we need a catcher who can hit to keep this lineup as stacked as it has been.
If Montero can be equal to Piazza defensively behind the plate, we can live with it.
I’d be okay with giving up one of Joba/Hughes in a deal for him, but for some reason the player I don’t want to trade at all is Dave Robertson. I feel like we’re going to need him in our pen.
The way I look at Joba/Hughes is Hallyday is replacing whichever one goes and that’s a big step up.
Yes, they may turn out to be great pitchers down the road, but for next season we’re loaded and we still get to keep the one of them that Toronto doesn’t want…and if Cashman pulls off the Chapman signing you are replacing a high ceiling young arm in the organization.
I remember how it didn’t feel right when we got Clemens from Toronto. It felt like “too much” and it hurt to see Wells go.
I think a Hallyday acquisition would cause similar feelings in a lot of the fanbase.
And now it starts. Jason Bay has turned down a reported 4 year, $60 mil contract from Boston.
Bedard will be cheeper then Sheets
One – I don’t know if that’s true
Two – a used moped is cheaper than a BMW – you get what you pay for.
Yep it just worked out in our favor this time given the schedule.
If all 3 series had gone to 7 games (well, 5 in the 1st round) it might have been harder to pull of the 3-man rotation. And if Joba was in the rotation, the bullpen might also have been even wobblier without him than it was with him. We may never know. But it worked out for the Yanks and the Yanks are on top.
I’m agreeing that there were too many days off. Play games with about the same frequency as the regular season. Except of course if (for example) one playoff series is decided in a sweep and winner’s opponent is decided in 7 games … not much you can do about that.
“If Montero can be equal to Piazza defensively behind the plate, we can live with it. ”
I remember it being mentioned here that people think that Montero is too big to be considered as a long term catcher. Or am I imagining that?
As a fan I didn’t like the extra off days in the postseason, but the argument that they have anything to do with “fairness” is silly. All teams were (approximately) equally placed to take advantage of them – the Yanks got the extra-stretched division series, but as a reward for having the best record.
Look at the usual case. Two playoff teams, one without an ace, but having strong starters 1-5. The other has an ace, but a weak 5th starter. Over the course of the season, the two teams are even, the ace being offset by the weak #5 starter. But in the postseason, dropping to a 4-man rotation, the team without the ace is at a disadvantage.
Is the usual situation unfair? Most people don’t think so. Likewise, the situation the Yanks found themselves in this year is not unfair either.
Just the way the ball bounces, and it helped us this year. But not unfair.
Betsy,
They didn’t make the deal because JP wouldn’t trade him within the division.
Wave,
That’s certainly a possibility. However, I think the Yankees really want Halladay and when they really want someone, they seem to make it happen.
Certainly, this early in the off-season, they can take their time making moves.
However, if they get Damon back for one year at a number they can live with, they can add Halladay this year, extend him beginning in 2010, and go from there. In essence, Halladay’s 2009 salary is Matsui’s money and a few million shaved off Damon’s 2009 number.
They can also defer some money, or bonus it, to work within their payroll parameters.
I guess my point is, they have much more flexibility than one may think on the surface.
Just depends on how they either sign or replace Damon in LF, IMO. That’s the domino that makes everything else fall into place.
Ansky –
Agreed – I think this is an overreaction to the fact that there were so many short series which led to even more off-time.
I think Marlon Byrd and Johnny Damon’s offense will be essentially equal in 2010, therefore you sign Byrd (who is 4 years younger) for 2-3 years and plant him in CF, waiting for Jackson. Matsui resigned for 1 year at DH. In 2011, Posada moves to DH, Jackson comes up in LF/CF….Montero to C.
Works for me?
Bedard will be cheaper than Sheets, but Sheets is better and likely will play more.
“And now it starts. Jason Bay has turned down a reported 4 year, $60 mil contract from Boston.”
Wow. What is he looking for? He might be looking for at least $18m per year, if not more.
You amateur attorneys are cracking me up.
Baseball’s anti-trust exemption relates to the minor league system.
A slotting system for the draft would be illegal if the owners just implemented one. However if the owners and players association put a slotting system into the Collective Bargaining Agreement it would be completely legal.
Since current players lose NOTHING by agreeing to one I would think their demands would be rather minimal.
No way it would require FA two years earlier, but upping minimum salaries to say $ 600K, $ 700K, $ 800K might be very attractive to the MLBPA as could be a 26th spot on the active roster or expanding the 40-man.
SJ44 -
I think the Yankees really want Halladay and when they really want someone, they seem to make it happen.
The Yankees really wanted Johan Santana but Cashman wouldn’t give up prospects for a guy he was going to have to sign to a big deal. And that was a year when the Yankee rotation was really thin. Why is he going to deal top prospects for a pitcher that he’s going to have to sign to a long term contract now?
patrick and gb7-
the really strange thing is that when marvin miller won free agency for all the players, it’s my understanding the union is the one who wanted to have the 6 year rule because it thought too many players available would lower the price an individual player would get as a free agent.
so the irony is that the union had total free agency for all players and there would have been no 6 year rule. they wanted the 6 year rule.
personally i think that was a mistake, but i think that’s the way it happened.
Agree with not having Montero in any deal.
As far as Bedard is concerned, he’s had 2 shoulder surgeries and is one of the most disliked guys in the game. Not a fit for the Yankees.
Sheets? He had the same elbow flexor tendon surgery Andy had 5 years ago and that’s not a major surgery.
I don’t know how much of a bargain he will be but, he’s certainly a guy I’d consider if I was the Yankees.
In fact, if they choose not to enter the Doc Sweepstakes, I’d sign Sheets and Andy, put one of Joba or Hughes in the pen, and call it a day with the pitching staff.
Laura – Bring back Matsui in 2010!
November 19th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
“If Montero can be equal to Piazza defensively behind the plate, we can live with it. ”
I remember it being mentioned here that people think that Montero is too big to be considered as a long term catcher. Or am I imagining that?
————————————————————
They fail to mention that Weiters, Mauer and Fisk are and were the same size and are consideredcatching gods of the past, present and future.
What is up my fellow CHAMPIONS!! Its been killing me not to be able to post recently. I have been under a rock of late. Is there anyone that Cash has in his radar at this time? It seems like in recent years, we would already have a couple big time players signed up by now. I do like the idea of going after Granderson. Not sure if that name was picked out of the sky or has some legs.
So is Seleig wanting to change the playoff schedule due to the Yankees winning it all with a 3 man rotation? Unbelievable,he’ll do anything to slow down the Yanks.
The Yankees didn’t really want Johan Santana. Hank Steinbrenner really wanted Johan Santana. Big difference.
SJ44-
I’m not saying the Yanks absolutely won’t go for Halladay. They can probably afford him. However, I do say that the decision to sign Halliday will have consequences for the offense – not good consequences.
The other thing that worries me about signing Halladay to a long term contract is that, right now, in 2013 the Yanks will have about $93MM locked up in four (aging) players – ARod, CC, Tex and AJ. If they sign to a long term deal, make that about $116MM in five players. To me, that’s a little scary.
hey, wave, good analysis. but how much are we talking if we bring back matsui, pettitte and damon? may be better off bringing back pettitte and matsui OR damon, and using the money to chase another pitcher. at some point a-jax will be ready and he’ll be relatively inexpensive for a few years if he pans out as well as everyone seems to think he will.
also, to the actual blog entry title: postseason will have fewer breaks. here’s how long the postseason dragged on… the yankees, in november, had more wins than the nets, jets, giants and knicks COMBINED. how crazy-scary is that?
No way it would require FA two years earlier, but upping minimum salaries to say $ 600K, $ 700K, $ 800K might be very attractive to the MLBPA as could be a 26th spot on the active roster or expanding the 40-man.
Why would the MLBPA settle for that? Seriously, do the math for a second – which do you think the Union would want more, the opportunity for some players (those making the minimum) to make an extra 200k or the opportunity for them to make millions more over the duration of their careers by becoming FA’s earlier in their career?
And even if we assume that the union would accept that – it still makes no sense for ownership. The number of players signed above slot (and the money committed to them) would be dwarfed by the added expense of your suggestion. The owners would end up spending the same total amount of money on less useful players.
randy l.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
patrick and gb7-
the really strange thing is that when marvin miller won free agency for all the players, it’s my understanding the union is the one who wanted to have the 6 year rule because it thought too many players available would lower the price an individual player would get as a free agent.
so the irony is that the union had total free agency for all players and there would have been no 6 year rule. they wanted the 6 year rule.
personally i think that was a mistake, but i think that’s the way it happened.
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If ever an executive of baseball deserves to be in the HOF, it’s Marvin Miller. He’s one of about 5 most influential people in baseball history as far as non-uniformed people go. Management hates him, but, fail to mention that he’s a major reason that baseball is in such great financial shape.
•The Yankees are apparently letting teams know that Nick Swisher is available. Swisher was involved in his share of trade rumors after the Yankees acquired him last season.
___
Really?
{The Yankees are apparently letting teams know that Nick Swisher is available. Swisher was involved in his share of trade rumors after the Yankees acquired him last season.}
Hmmm. Okay, then who is playing RF? Is this a sign that AJax is coming up next season?
I think that if the Tanks signed a guy like Randy Wolf to a contract averaging around $10MM a year, then they could afford to bring back both Damon and Matsui (assuming deals could be reached with them) on short term deals, and have a bench, plus keep both Joba and Hughes.
That seems to me like a good short-term fix until Montero, AJax and some other young guys are ready to go.
postseason will have fewer breaks. here’s how long the postseason dragged on… the yankees, in november, had more wins than the nets, jets, giants and knicks COMBINED. how crazy-scary is that?
___
This has nothing to do with the length of the playoffs. Giants and jets play once a week, nets and knicks suck, and the yankees won all of those games by nov 5.
86 –
The other thing I don’t think you’re considering is that there are a lot of teams:
Yankees, Detroit, Royals, Red Sox, Angels, Tampa, Cubs, White Sox, Rangers, who like the current draft system because it allows them to get very talented players later in each round.
I cant believe all this Halliday talk im reading today. There is a Stud pitcher out there that probably won comeback player of the year on his team and would be much cheaper than Doc. He would be welcomed here with open arms by fans and teammates being that he has finally fully healed.
Cant believe you experts havnt mentioned PAVANO.
Hmmm. Okay, then who is playing RF? Is this a sign that AJax is coming up next season?
I don’t know that they’re mutually exclusive – I think the Yankees are just interested in seeing what they could get back for Swisher and see if maybe they can get back more than they gave up for him.
He could be replaced by a free agent or through subsiquent deals – doesn’t have with Jackson.
randy wolf is also an option but not at $10 M/Year
even knowing that pavano comment was a joke, i feel compelled to point out that i heard espn mention what a great season he had. the bar has been set so low for him that even with an ERA at 5, just finishing the season without an injury means he had a great season?
“Turns out that he just really preferred to win..”
Or close to 200M dollars – you can believe whatever you want though:)
I think the Yankees are just interested in seeing what they could get back for Swisher and see if maybe they can get back more than they gave up for him.
————————————————————
More than they gave up? That should take a lot of thought.
Why does everyone keep banking on Ajax to be the missing piece in Center or anywhere else? His strikeouts are high and doesnt hit for power. I obviously havnt seen him but the stats must not be telling me everything about this kid. I can remember just last spring alot of you ranting and raving about Meloncan. I know its still early, but he didnt show any glimpses of being the future closer. I would take a known above average player in the majors over a POTENTIAL star anyday. Let the Pirates and Royals raise the youngins for us.
Cashman better leave Swisher alone !
The days off worked to the Yankees advantage so of course Buds can change the rules. Tell the fraud it’s to late Guadin wont be there 4th starter next year.
Good thing Rivera wants to play 5 more years and we dont have to worry about our closer until then.
Swisher is not an untouchable. Let’s not go overboard and overrate him.
Nice player, easily replaceable in the right deal.
I agree with SJ. I think if the Yankees whiff on Hallyday, they go sign a Sheets/Harden type and put one of Joba/Hughes in the pen and call it a day for the pitching staff this off season. That’s all assuming Andy comes back for one more year.
The only reason Hallyday makes sense is he’s a monster. He’s a force. And to be honest, trading some of the depth we have in the minors needs to happen. We see every year that we lose good young players to rule 5. Might as well thin out the herd for an elite pitching talent.
But they can’t trade Montero in any deal and I don’t think they will unless they have changed their opinion of him.
Where is this Nick Swisher rumor coming from?
More than they gave up? That should take a lot of thought.
Might be tough to top Wilson Betemit and Jeff Marquez.
“No, I don’t read anything by Keith Law.”
gb7-
i’ll bet if you me and keith law took a road trip and we were standing on the edge of the grand canyon that keith law would be much more careful what he said.
hey, it’s wouldn’t be our fault he didn’t have a parachute on.
Nightengale On Jackson, Swisher, Rays, Halladay
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [November 19 at 11:46am CST]
USA Today’s Bob Nightengale suggests we keep an eye on a possible three-way trade between the Tigers, Mariners and one other club. The Tigers would give up Edwin Jackson and the Mariners would give up Brandon Morrow. Here are some more rumors to read as you wonder who that third team might be:
•Nightengale says the Rays are the “clear-cut favorite” to acquire Milton Bradley from the Cubs.
————————————————————
LMAO. Being a “clearcut favorite” to acquire Milton Bradley is like being the clearcut favorite to win the lottery for a trip on the Titanic, with about equal results.
The days off were ridiculous. Made no sense.
It also BARELY worked to the Yankees advantage.
Their plan wasn’t to go into the post-season with only 3 starters. They had to change the plan because Joba fell off the map as a starter and they had little trust in Chad Gaudin.
It was done out of necessity and not part of some creative, grand plan.
Swisher is not an untouchable. Let’s not go overboard and overrate him.
Nice player, easily replaceable in the right deal.
–
SJ. i disagree. Swish adds something to this team.
rumor was on mlbtraderumors. no biggie yet.
James,
It’s an overreaction to all the complaints by the media about how long the layoff was between series — which was a result of short series but that’s neither here nor there.
Also Bud was complicit in this by allowing Fox and TBS to set the sched based on their prime time plans.
randy l.
November 19th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
“No, I don’t read anything by Keith Law.”
gb7-
i’ll bet if you me and keith law took a road trip and we were standing on the edge of the grand canyon that keith law would be much more careful what he said.
hey, it’s wouldn’t be our fault he didn’t have a parachute on.
————————————————————
He does seem to have an overinflated view of his own importance and intelligence, much like the other one I mentioned.
{USA Today’s Bob Nightengale suggests we keep an eye on a possible three-way trade between the Tigers, Mariners and one other club. The Tigers would give up Edwin Jackson and the Mariners would give up Brandon Morrow. ]
Isn’t Morrow SEA’s version of Joba? Seems odd that they are giving up on him so soon.
Jason Marquis? Randy Wolf ? Joel Piniero? Wave, I always love your posts, but I don’t want any one of those pitchers near YS unless they have a ticket or it’s with another team.
LMAO. Being a “clearcut favorite” to acquire Milton Bradley is like being the clearcut favorite to win the lottery for a trip on the Titanic, with about equal results.
————-
GB7,
lol. Thats like saying a clear cut favorite to sign Alen Iverson. Practice? We’re talking about practice?
He doesn’t add enough to make him an untouchable. Far from it.
He’s a complimentary piece on a team that has superstars like Jeter, Tex, Arod, etc on it.
Swisher is a complementary player on this team. I like him a lot but if Cashman gets the right package back I have no problem with it.
Cashman has to no reason to trade Swisher unless he gets a very good package back in return, so it does not hurt to put his name out there
tex’s friend, I don’t think we should assume AJ is going to get hurt again. Well, I guess you can, but I won’t. He’s been healthy 2 years in a row and he was a horse this year – threw lots of innings and didn’t have an ache or pain (that we heard about) once. His new regime between starts has helped tremendously. As far as I’m concerned, he’s no more a risk for injury than anyone else. I don’t want Bedard because he’s clubhouse poison.
SJ,
You mentioned picking up a pitcher and keeping Hughes or Joba in the pen. Who do you think would be better in the pen and who would fit better as a starter of the two seeing what we saw in 09? Anyone?
Also Bud was complicit in this by allowing Fox and TBS to set the sched based on their prime time plans.
__
selig taking responsibility for anything? yeah right. it will be like being the commish over the steroid era, but nothing to do with you.
that means two things and neither are favorable to bud. either you are an idiot with no business being in charge, or you are lying.
Bud will never be at fault for anything wrong, only what’s right. he’s the george w. bush/dick cheney of baseball.
Godzilla doesn’t just protect Arod; he protects us all.
As for the Halladay discussion, there are too many unknown parameters and variables to predict either way with the the certainty I am reading in some posts here. It’s not a sin to not know what’s going to happen.
That said, there is no way Cashman won’t at least be in the conversation. The interest in Doc should be obvious as should Doc’s interest in the Yankees.
But I would not give up Phil Hughes. Sure, he’s softer than the Milky Way you left on the dashboard at noon, but something tells me he’s going to be a special pitcher.
Joba? Perhaps even more special… and perhaps not.
I don’t want Bedard because he’s clubhouse poison.
____
agreed. no matter what, i still choose sheets over bedard anyway. sheets is way more talented IMO.
Isn’t Morrow SEA’s version of Joba? Seems odd that they are giving up on him so soon.
Give up a relief pitcher to get starter every time.
Swish on the block to make room for Granderson?
I gotta agree with SJ on this one re: Swisher.
Seems to me that if they entertain trading him, they’d be looking at shifting Melky to RF, adding a CF, and throwing either Damon in LF if they resign him, adding one of big FA LFs (no thank you, IMO) or adding a temporary replacement until Jackson is ready (if he ever in fact IS ready).
I’d assume that Swish would be included in a trade for that CF.
Changing the subject for a second. What ever happened to Lost? Is it get Lost and therefore cancelled? I saw one of the ladies in Lost acting in the new series V.
[Joba? Perhaps even more special… and perhaps not.]
I run hot and cold with Joba. One day, I feel that he’s a keeper. Then the next, I’m ready to move him in a package deal. Right now, I’d only move Joba for a big ticket guy -Halladay, King Felix, etc. Other than that, he’s ours to be frustrated by.
[Changing the subject for a second. What ever happened to Lost? Is it get Lost and therefore cancelled? I saw one of the ladies in Lost acting in the new series V.]
LOST returns in January. Woohoo!
Where is the link to the Swisher post? In any case, I don’t buy it for a minute. Swish is a good player who fit in great – the Yankees have other issues to deal with. Trading Swisher (for whatever reason) is a very silly idea.
I don’t like putting Joba or Phil in the pen……at all. As to Sheets, the Yanks loved him last year -not so sure they will love him this year.
Nick, your only saying this because you want to sell those Dynamic Duo t-shirts. Thats very selfish of you. I say bring up IPK and lets here Kays “Generation Trey” stuff every 2 minutes. Bringing back the classics.
Selig says he’s going to subject international players to the same draft as american born players – yet another stroke of utter genius.
The intended result is to keep teams like the Yankees from signing the Jesus Montero’s of the world…
The actual results will be:
1. It will kill American amateur baseball (flood the draft with hundreds of former international free agents and fewer American players will be drafted – thus fewer American born players will play baseball – thus fewer elite athletes will stick with baseball)
2. High level young international players will go to Japan where they can sign as free agents.
Bay turned down 4 years at 60 million from Red Sox.
Where will he get a better contract than that?
Bay turned down 4 years at 60 million from Red Sox.
Where will he get a better contract than that?
-
I can see the Mets overreaching
No, Swish is not an untouchable per se, but it makes no sense for the Yankees to try and trade their RF when (1) they have other fish to fry and other holes to fill and (b) they do not have a better RF. Swish is versatile, a good player and he fits in great. Why would they try to move him?
[Bay turned down 4 years at 60 million from Red Sox.
Where will he get a better contract than that?]
He must know something we don’t because I had him pegged for 15mil a year. Why he thinks he’s getting more than that, I have no idea.
“Swish on the block to make room for Granderson?”
Granderson? He was SOOO last week. Try to keep up.
“Hughes should be FAR ahead of Joba in his development right now but he is not. Joba zoomed through the minor leagues in less than a year while it has taken years for Hughes to be ready to pitch in any fashion in the major leagues. With so experience Joba has shown much more on the big level than Hughes has.
Why do you guys think Hughes is more valuable?”
You do realize that Hughes was injured for parts of 2 years just about?
Joba also went to college as well so he has that experience.
Also, before Hughes was moved to the pen this year he had 3 excellent starts in a row.
Who knows if the trend would have continued had he remained a starter.
Betsy, if the right deal comes along, Swisher is far from untouchable. Period.
Obviously, if they were to trade Swisher, it would be with other things going on. They aren’t just going to trade him and leave an opening in RF.
What if they acquired Granderson and moved Melky to RF? That’s just one example.
Cashman isn’t stupid. If he trades Swisher, its part of a grander plan that being put in motion.
Seattle and the Mets are going to make big plays for Bay.
Perhaps he wants to see how his market unfolds before taking the Boston deal.
One landing spot for Swisher would be the Cubs. Daddy Swish was a Cubbie. Not sure how well NYY and Cubs match up, though. Maybe Swisher and Nova for 21 year old AA pitcher, Casey Coleman and Jake Fox. I’d take Fox and Lilly if Lilly were completely healthy.
Godzilla doesn’t just protect Arod; he protects us all.
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Godzilla is the Matthew Broderick version now. Trying to relive what he once had but cant duplicate it. If there is a KING KONG out there to be had, i would pull the trigger. Didnt King Kong beat Godzilla in a head to head match?
I think we should give Miranda a shot at dh and have that slot be a rotation for our starters to get a half day off.
Joba also went to college as well so he has that experience.
Also, before Hughes was moved to the pen this year he had 3 excellent starts in a row.
Who knows if the trend would have continued had he remained a starter.
—————————–
Yeah but the minors is so much more valuable in terms of coaching and development than college. Also where were these 3 excellent starts?
Generation Just Us Two!
Bye bye Ian.
Swisher to the White Sox. Kenny Williams figured out that the Swish dog is the missing piece. The secret? Bat him 8th.
I just heard that Andy has filed for free agency. Will search around for a link
He must know something we don’t because I had him pegged for 15mil a year. Why he thinks he’s getting more than that, I have no idea.
May not be the 15 mil per he objects to – may be he wants more years.
He must know something we don’t because I had him pegged for 15mil a year. Why he thinks he’s getting more than that, I have no idea.
May not be the 15 mil per he objects to – may be he wants more years.
I am not trying to discount Hughes at all if that is what I sound like. I am just saying I think Joba has shown more than Hughes with a lot less experience
“Jason Marquis? Randy Wolf ? Joel Piniero? Wave, I always love your posts, but I don’t want any one of those pitchers near YS unless they have a ticket or it’s with another team.”
betsy-
I’m just trying to think of ways to solidify the pitching staff without losing offense. It’s early in the off-season, I’ll probably come up with some even wackier ideas before the New Year! Although you might come to like Randy Wolf as long as you don’t expect him to be an ace.
How about Swisher to the Cubs for Jake Fox and Carlos Marmol?
As for who plays RF – they could bring back Nady, or (and I want to go on record as saying I don’t want this player) they could sign Brian Giles thinking he would be a nice fit in the 2 spot.
From Davidoff’s Twitter:
KenDavidoff: Final two free-agent filings: Andy Pettitte & Fernando Tatis.
22 minutes ago
“Or close to 200M dollars – you can believe whatever you want though:)”
Since when is 126 million close to 200 million?
26 dollars is no where near close to 100 dollars.
“The days off were ridiculous. Made no sense.
It also BARELY worked to the Yankees advantage.”
If BARELY working means a WS championship then count me in every year
again guy prior to his walk year Byrd’s career high is 10homers. Be very careful of guys who have career years when $ is on the line. Also away from the band box in Arlington Byrd hit 6 homers and had a slugging% of .419. which would be the lowest on our team. He’s a rh hitter so his power #’s would certainly suffer playing in our park. he’s also 32yrs old. Basically he’s a downgrade to Melky.
Chip,
Brian Giles doesnt or should i say didnt want to play for the Yankees a year or two ago. I think he is spoiled being here in So Cal. I’d pass on him and Nady. How about Ankeil? Isnt he a free agent?
Here’s another Swisher deal:
Swish, Igawa, Ace, Nova to Atlanta for McLouth and D-Lowe
Wave, understood. No, I don’t even think we need an ace or even close – just a solid, reliable arm. I don’t want anyone who hasn’t pitched in the AL, especially the AL East, unless it’s a Sheets. The division is just too explosive…the whole league is.
I realize that if Swish were to be traded, it would be in the aftermath of some grander design…..but why would Cash make it known that he’s available when the Yankees haven’t made any moves? They couldn’t trade Swish until something else went down.
This Andy situation needs to be resolved quickly…….
I heard some people talk about Erwin Jackson
But do you really wanne see a German in Yankee uniform?They look good in lederhosen…but pinstripes??
Ankiel is a FA but he’s strikes out a ton and has been fighting injuries – though I do think he has the perfect stroke for Yankee Stadium.
As for Giles – while I want no part of him – I think he would sign with whomever offers to pay him at this point in his career and there’s always the chance that he recaptures some power coming to Yankee Stadium from Yellowstone—er—PETCO.
I only suggested the Cubs because of Swisher’s Cubs connection, but, it will take a lot more than Swisher to get Marmol. Fox plays the corner outfield spots and first base/DH.
“Swish, Igawa, Ace, Nova to Atlanta for McLouth and D-Lowe”
HELL NO.
Quantiy doesn’t equal to quality.
This Andy situation needs to be resolved quickly…….
Andy is going to do what he always does – hem and haw through the Holidays while he decides if he wants to play again. He’ll sign some time in January.
I think this Swisher thing is just to gauge potential interest. Maybe I’m remembering wrong, but didn’t they do the same thing with Melky last winter?
In any case, I hope Swish isn’t traded.
Why trade 24 yr. old pitchers with tons of talent who have ALREADY had success in MLB.
These guys (Joba/Phil) are not minor league prospects, they have already had success at the major league level. How good was Halliday at 23-24? How many of todays top pitchers were that good in their early 20′s? You’ve got to give these guys time to continue developing.
Lets mix in youth with vets that are still productive for us (AROD, Jeter, Posada, Mo). Why pay Damon or Matsui $ we could use for younger better players (Bay,Holliday).
Matsui/Damon will be 36 next season. One has 2 bad knees, the other is breaking down quickly & has NO arm. Teams always take the extra base when the ball is hit to Damon.
Cut: Molina (old, fat, can’t hit or run)
Replace: Cevelli (younger, faster, better hitter, good defensively, & cheaper).
Cut: Nady (31 yrs.old, avg. player, injury prone) save about $10 mil. a yr.
Replace: Friggins (speed, more versitile, better defensively, another switch hitter)
Cut: Damon (old, no arm, breaking down, weak defense)
Replace: Bay (younger, more power, better arm, weakens Red Sox)
Cut: Matsui (old, slow, bad knees, cannot play the field)
Replace: Lackey (upgrade pitching without losing anyone.)
Making the above moves uses $ we were already spending for younger, better players in their prime.
Jeter SS
Friggins RF
Tex 1B
Arod 3B
Bay LF
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swish DH
Melky CF
In this lineup Friggins can play 3B so Arod can DH & Swish can play RF or 1B when you want to DH Tex. Plus it gives you 5 switch hitters & more speed.
Adding Lackey to the rotation gives you a postseason rotation of CC, Lackey, Andy, AJ.
WOW!
Giggle – Hughes, Joba and Austin Jackson for Verlander and Granderson…um…as I said a week or so ago – MLB will not approve deals where one GM is drunk.
let’s go yankees,
I was wrong about the three excellent starts, it was one excellent start and two Joba like starts.
I’m just saying, he’s still relatively inexperienced due to his injuries. If he never gets injured I believe he’d be much further ahead right now.
hem and haw through the Holidays while he decides if he wants to play again. He’ll sign some time in January.
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Hmmm. That sure sounds alot like the Rocket.
Somebody referenced this yesterday so I dug it up:
It’s a Rosenthal article that discusses the war of words that Boras is having with Rob Manfred who is MLB’s (not the union’s) chief labor guy.
So Boras is basically saying that teams are crying poor and meanwhile they’re getting major $$$ from revenue sharing and the MLB central fund. Boras wants the teams to disclose these amounts to the public and hints that it should be a union demand as part of the next CBA(in 2011)
Rosenthal then quotes a Daily News article written in August that reported that each team got 35 million from the MLB central fund. Not too sure if that figure is 100% true but even if it’s not, it’s probably in the ballpark.
35 million per team?
That’s over a billion dollars!
I would guess that the lion’s share of that money comes from TV rights.
Which raises the question; If MLB is charging hundreds of millions of dollars for the rights to televise games then why does the product suck so much? And I’m not talking about the broadcasters.
MLB is raking in enough cash to give out a billion dollars to it’s franchises and we get blackouts and afternoon and late night playoff games?
And Bud Selig gets 18 million a year.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....tling-omen
i thought he was accidentally calling chone ‘friggins’. is that a joke or something?
Matsui/Damon will be 36 next season. One has 2 bad knees, the other is breaking down quickly & has NO arm. Teams always take the extra base when the ball is hit to Damon.
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They have to both be looked at as dh’s. Damons defense this year was an adventure. I kept thinking maybe its the lights. But unfortunately, it was in night and day games. I like the Lackey and Figgins idea Mudville. Not so much the Bay and Holliday with the money and terms they are going recieve.
Hard slots? Salary caps? Luxury Tax? Revenue Sharing?
“Engineered parity” has a long history of not working. See: the former Soviet Union.
Exactly what is inaccurate or distorted about setting a player’s value through arm’s length negotiation involving adults with equal access to information? If that’s not good for you, then tell how a player’s worth is more accurately captured when someone (Selig) or a panel of “someones” decides?
The hard-slot, salary cap folks are not about a player’s worth, they are about letting owners compete without taking the same high degree of risk other owners are willing to take. Welcome to enforced mediocrity.
Socialist crybabies be gone!
Who in their right mind thinks that Dave Robertson has more long term value to the Yanks than Joba or Phil?!?!?! I like DRob alot too i’ve been saying since the ’08 season that Girardi had to use him more because he’s a very talented reliever and he’s really come on. I like having him in my pen. That being the case there is NO WAY that if it came down to me keeping DRob over Joba or over Phil on an untouchable list that DRob’s the guy i have to keep!!! that’s insanity he’s a middle reliever and Melancon’s better.
and can we please also stop with the crazy ideas where AROD is now a DH! If he’s 85% healthy ARod will play third 155games every year for the next 5years!
Maybe Hal is mandating that the Yankees trade Swisher for pouring that champagne on his head during the interview after they won…HAL WAS NOT AMUSED…he actually looked angry.
It makes sense that the Yankees would be willing to trade Swisher. He’s the only guy on the major league roster that is a good hitter that they could trade, and his contract is reasonable. Also, his splits show that he wasn’t helped by NYS.
I don’t know what they’d look to get for him, but if a team is looking for some offense at the major league level, Swisher is pretty much all the Yankees have to offer.
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