The Yankees bullpen: Do or don’t
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 19, 2009 
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It seems an odd bit of news, but FoxSports reported today that they’ve heard two different stories about the Yankees bullpen plans. Some say the Yankees are interested in Mike Gonzalez and Rafael Soriano. Some say the Yankees are content to stay in house.
I have to think both are true.
Like with making a call to the Blue Jays about Roy Halladay, there’s no harm in checking in on Gonzalez and Soriano — personally, I’ve always liked both – but the past few years seem to have taught us that planning a bullpen is tricky. Part of the reason Mariano Rivera is so valuable is that he’s so reliable. It’s hard to find relievers like that, and it’s very easy to pay quite a bit of money for a reliever who falters. In the case of Damaso Marte, it’s easy to pay quite a bit of money to a reliever who falters, then comes up huge in the playoffs.
The Yankees have been able to find in-house setup candidates in unexpected places, whether in the young arm of Joba Chamberlain in 2007 or the rotation arm of Phil Hughes in 2009. David Robertson seemed to come into his own this season. Mark Melancon could do the same next year. Alfredo Aceves seems to be working well out of the bullpen. Grant Duff and Romulo Sanchez showed power arms in the minors.
I’m all for adding pieces, but the Yankees still have enough pitching depth in the system to make me think they don’t have to go overboard — in terms of money or lost draft picks — to add a seventh or eighth inning setup candidate. Bullpens tend to sort themselves out, and that’s all a free agent reliever would be is another candidate for the job.
If I’m not mistaken Mike Gonzalez is the one with the extremely wacky windup. Don’t know how I feel about that. I guess I could get used to it though, because if I remember correctly he was pretty solid.
As I said earlier today, I’m not a fan of the pen. Mo, Marte, Robertson – those are the only guys I like. Coke? Unreliable. Bruney? Same….and he’s not healthy. Gaudin? I do like him, but more for his versatility…..Are we even sure he can be a reliever? He started for most of the time he was in NY. Aceves – mediocre to bad in the 2nd half of the season and post-season; I’ve no idea what to expect from him. IMO, he’s probably a starter – I don’t know if his arm can handle pitching ever other day, every two days. Melancon? He’s got a lot to prove. Arms in AAA? Are we really going to rely on kids who haven’t thrown one pitch in the majors? Dunn is another Jose Veras….and Nardi Contreras admitted recently that the kid is a thrower, not a pitcher.
Obviously the Yankees have other priorities to fill before the pen, but IMO, they definitely need to shore it up.
The thing about relievers is unless you are talking about Rivera they are typically inconsistent. Good one outing. Lousy the next. Good for a period of time and then lousy for a period of time. I usually prefer to build a bullpen from within. It is cheaper and less risk involved. A guy can be lousy and you simply send him back to the minors or release him. No worries of being stuck with a bad contract.
Middle relievers tend to be middle relievers for a reason. Even closers can be shaky. Many guys simply close due to their stuff or due to the team having no other viable option.
There’s plenty of guys in our system that aren’t paid a lot and eventually some guys stick and they end up in particular roles.
I absolutely would not give up draft picks for a reliever or go crazy with trading for a reliever.
I agree with Chad’s opinion with the bullpen.
Gonzales is good, always has been. He’s an asset to whatever bullpen he’s in. He can setup, or close. He’d be great. But, now that Boras is his agent, Gonzales is the greatest closer in the game and is worth at least $9mil/yr!!!!!!!!
I agree on Aceves, that he didn’t look all that good as the season wore on. Gaudin has performed decently as both a starter and as a middle reliever, and I wouldn’t cry over Aceves being traded and Gaudin filling that “swingman pitcher” role in 2010. And Mark Melancon is very likely going to need a ML job in 2010.
I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing the Yankees sign Gonzales, then trade away both Coke and Aceves in the right deal. I don’t think Phil Coke is ever going to be as good as Gonzales. This would still leave the Yankees with plenty of in-house candidates, should anyone go down with an injury.
Excellent summary, Betsy. And assuming that Joba and Hughes are starting, we still need antother reliable late-inning arm. Much cheaper to get one of those than to get another starter.
On the other hand, if they can land Sheets, I’d put Joba back in the pen.
P.S.
Bullpen in 2010: Gonzales/Gaudin/Melancon/Robertson/Marte/Joba/Mo.
Can you say “shut ‘em down after six innings?”
If the Yankees are after bullpen help, I hope it means that Joba and Hughes are in the rotation. I still think DRob and Marte would be fine as the 8th inning relievers.
Kyle, I agree with you…….I’ve lived through years of retreads, so I certainly don’t want to throw a bunch of $$$ at guys who will just end up as nothing more than average. That said, the Yankees had pretty good success with Stanton and Nelson. I think they just have to do their due diligence with these guys – I really don’t want to have to depend on our AAA arms to fill out the pen.
Bottom line, I wonder if the Yankees will have interest in Sheets. They did love him last year……..I’m not sure they want to go with such a high risk option though – they really need a reliable arm.
Rich, I think so, too – but it’s the rest of the pen I have concerns about.
Betsy,
If you’re out there, Part IV of Nardi interview series is up on Pinstripes.
You’ll be able to get some interesting info on Brackman, as I recall our dialogue and your having asked about him.
Nothing Nardi says in there contradicts my feeling that he’ll be in the Yankee bullpen near the latter part of the season. You’ll see, though, that now they’ve dealt with his arm slot for his FB and CB, they reintroduced change and will have all three in his diet for next season,in which he’ll pitch as a starter. If he can remain healthy, I see no reason why he can’t bring that heat out of the pen for us. With Melancon added in, we shouldn’t need to add FA arms.
And if Garcia is healthy……:D
I know Cashman has been crushing on Gonzalez in particular for a few years so he may go there like he did with Marte but free agent relievers have been more miss than hit for the Yanks in the past so I’m not sure I would want him to.
They’ve been stockpiling arms in the minors for a few years and need to see if some of them can pay off.
i liked the little of what i saw of gonzalez this year. Wouldnt mind him if he were to come over at a decent price and take over for joba and hughes while theyre busy starting
Bodh, I took a quick look at it and will read it more thoroughly tomorrow. Nardi definitely sounded positive about Brackman and he strikes me as an honest guy, so that’s a great sign.
By the way,
Was flipping through threads on here and I saw a debate re Robertson and Melancon who had the better arm, etc.
Since both guys have a great arm, I’m not that interested in the debate, but SJ44 said that Robertson throws harder. That is not correct. Robertson enjoyed a velo spike this season, but doesn’t throw as hard as Melancon. The late life on D-Rob’s FB makes it seem like it’s on the hitter that much quicker, but he sits at around 91. Melancon sits at 93 or so, and can crank it up to 96.
Any way, both guys figure to be important parts of that BP. I, unlike people here, would bid a fond farewell to FA arms.
Strasburg scratched from AFL title game because of tweaked knee. That’s a shame.
Juan Miranda heating up in DWL. 4-for-5 yesterday and clubbed a 2-run HR today.
I dont see them importing another relief pitcher … they have so many internal options and with the possibility of still acquiring another starting pitcher, they have the option of keeping either Hughes and/or Chamberlain in the bullpen in 2010, which further strengthens them. I think David Robertson is terrific and would love to see his role expanded and as long as Damaso Marte can stay healthy, I have to think that the confidence he regained by pitching as well as he did in the post-season will carry over into next year.
Betsy
November 19th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
Bodh, I took a quick look at it and will read it more thoroughly tomorrow. Nardi definitely sounded positive about Brackman and he strikes me as an honest guy, so that’s a great sign.
====
I think Nardi’s basically honest, not to mention brilliant, but he’s not immune to giddiness at times. It’s only natural – when you’re working with guys, tweaking their delivery and mechanics, taking a pitch away from them, giving them a different CB than they are used to throwing, you want to always be positive. These guys are working from a point of view of process. It’s always a matter of reading between the lines, cross referencing and, if you have the interest and opportunity, seeing these guys yourself, of course.
i can’t imagine NYY signing either Gonzales or Soriano, because NYY won’t pay closer rates and both can sign for more as a closer. The 2nd reason is that I doubt NYY will give up a first round or 2nd round pick for a middle relief pitcher.
Agree disco stu and GB.
As it is, we have several options for setup man without even considering Hughes and Joba.
Nardi Part V is up. LOL, they’re coming fast and furious. Vizcaino focus. GB7, you’re getting another future pitching star to give us reports on.
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
November 19th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
Agree disco stu and GB.
As it is, we have several options for setup man without even considering Hughes and Joba.
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Not sure if Brackman can fix his flaws by the September call-ups of 2010, but, in relief this past year, he was outstanding. One other pitcher to watch for, is Wilkin DeLaRosa going back into the pen. He had trouble staying healthy as a starter. Before they turned him into a starter, he was a lights out set-up man. He did just as well as a starter, but, wore down. A hard-throwing left hander with a great change-up.
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
November 19th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
Nardi Part V is up. LOL, they’re coming fast and furious. Vizcaino focus. GB7, you’re getting another future pitching star to give us reports on.
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Yeah, I’m anxious to see him in Charleston. That’s also a pretty good group of young mashers, too. Another fine, young starter is Adam Warren. Not sure about Ronny Marte. At 23, he’s a lot older than most in the NYP League.
I can tie the Twilight conversation from earlier to the Yankees.
My daughter told me earlier this week that Alex Meraz told the story on the Internet that he was introduced to A-Rod at a party last week and the person who introduced them said he was an actor. A-Rod asked what movie he was in. So Meraz being a smart butt told him and asked A-Rod what team he played for.
My daughter thought this was hysterical and then I said something she found equally amusing, “Who’s Alex Meraz?”
FYI, for those as lame as I am, he’s in New Moon.
GB7,
I saw WDLR twice – he was very impressive with live stuff the first time, the second he was all over the place command-wise. He has an arm that bears watching, for sure.
According to Contreras, Brackman now has solid footing delivery-wise, which is why they felt good about going back to the change. If he can keep throwing strikes with his FB/CB, what a weapon we’d have for BP.
Warren I know about, but don’t have a read on Marte, just heard his name.
pat,
you and me both. I am probably the most clueless person alive when it comes to popular culture.
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
November 20th, 2009 at 12:07 am
GB7,
I saw WDLR twice – he was very impressive with live stuff the first time, the second he was all over the place command-wise. He has an arm that bears watching, for sure.
According to Contreras, Brackman now has solid footing delivery-wise, which is why they felt good about going back to the change. If he can keep throwing strikes with his FB/CB, what a weapon we’d have for BP.
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DeLaRosa could be what Marte was with the White sox and Pirates (or, better). That’s why I thought after his promotion to Trenton and seeing his numbers drop that he’s just not big enough to start, unless he’s gained some weight. he was only about 165 pounds and a little over 6 feet tall when I saw him. It’s only his 2nd full year as a pitcher.
The one that will knock your eyes out is Manny Banuelos…18 years old. Small kid, but, throws hard and knows where it’s going. Very polished for such a youngster. Reminds me somewhat of Guidry, just not quite as fast, yet. 5 feet 9 inches and 165 pounds.
Love what’s being said about Brackman. BIG fastball. It’s just that, like Chamberlain…one day he’d hit close to 100 MPH and the next time, he’d be in the low 90s.
Yeah, been keeping tabs on ManBan and anxiously await his arrival.
Is he all arms like Guidry? And can he play CF like Guidry?
One thing I liked a lot about WDLR during his “good” start was watching him solve problems on the mound. I hadn’t expected him to be a particularly cerebral pitcher, especially being new to it, as you point out, and also based on the “raw power arm” preamble.
It’s one start – but I was impressed with some good situational pitching in that one. The other, as I said, he never really got into a groove. I would have liked to have seen more of him. I remember thinking, ok, this time he’s Wilkins Arias.
Yanks would be dumb to throw dollars at the bullpen. It’s all there in the system and what they already have. Solve the outfield.
Whoever has ESPN Insider can find out where the Swisher to Arizona started and for whom. Unless it’s Upton or Drew, they have little that NYY needs…unless it’s swisher for Haren, straight up.
bodh
I’ve got 2 teenagers and my brother and brother-in-law both teach high school so I usually pick things up in conversations with them or by eavesdropping when my kids friends are over.
This time I got the eye roll as if Alex Meraz was Al Pacino and everyone in the world should have heard of him.
GreenBeret7
November 20th, 2009 at 12:19 am
Love what’s being said about Brackman. BIG fastball. It’s just that, like Chamberlain…one day he’d hit close to 100 MPH and the next time, he’d be in the low 90s.
=====
Yeah, he was throwing 100 after surgery in Hawaii, but ran into some wild fluctuation down your way. Are you talking about starting or out of the BP?
One thing Nardi did say that may resonate with Joba – the kid was listening to too many voices.
I think probably, with all the moving parts, there was a waste of movement also, energy being wasted. Now that he’s more compact and predictable he’s able to get more behind the ball. What is he, 6-10? He’s probably going to come unglued again here and there, but right now he’s got it all working.
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
November 20th, 2009 at 12:23 am
Yeah, been keeping tabs on ManBan and anxiously await his arrival.
Is he all arms like Guidry? And can he play CF like Guidry?
One thing I liked a lot about WDLR during his “good” start was watching him solve problems on the mound. I hadn’t expected him to be a particularly cerebral pitcher, especially being new to it, as you point out, and also based on the “raw power arm” preamble.
It’s one start – but I was impressed with some good situational pitching in that one. The other, as I said, he never really got into a groove. I would have liked to have seen more of him. I remember thinking, ok, this time he’s Wilkins Arias.
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Nah…He doesn’t have Guidry’s speed. He looks ok shagging flies, though. I swear it’s Guidry from behind. Long arms and skinny legs, black hair.
The Twilight series is basically like a poster board for staying in an abusive relationship. Its terrible. Also the werewolf is definitely a pedo. He ‘imprints’ on Bella’s egg which becomes her stupid vampire baby and ‘imprinting’ is what werewolves(whatever) use to find their soul mate.
And its all made ‘ok’ because ‘the baby will grow up super fast cause its a vampire baby!!’ (doesn’t make any sense)
Gosh the movie and books are terrible and no self respecting parent would let their kid read this slop. Check out some of the deeper literary analysis of the story.
Reading just for readings sake isn’t really great when they are reading poorly written escapist slop.
pat
November 20th, 2009 at 12:31 am
bodh
I’ve got 2 teenagers and my brother and brother-in-law both teach high school so I usually pick things up in conversations with them or by eavesdropping when my kids friends are over.
This time I got the eye roll as if Alex Meraz was Al Pacino and everyone in the world should have heard of him.
=====
Lol. Don’t feel bad. My former boss did not know who Barry Bonds is. Granted, she’s got a British background, but how do you not run into that name – ever? She’s been living in the US for 20 years.
She also had tickets to the 2003 ALCS championship, Game 7, and fell asleep in her seat, right off the third base line, in extra innings. I just shook my head at her. I was up in Section 10. Wide awake, of course.
One thing about DeLaRosa’s pitches….nothing’s straight. Everything moves. Seems like he might be tough to catch.
I hope they don’t give up any picks for middle relievers. I was disappointed last offseason when Cashman resigned Marte instead of offering him arbitration so the Yankees could have a chance at draft picks since he was a type A player.
Marte has done so little as a Yankee, but for some reason, a lot of people are comfortable with him in an 8th inning role. Bruney and Aceves have had much more success with the Yankees, and I think they both will get a shot at being the set up guy next year. Between Robertson, Aceves, Marte, and Bruney as potential set up guys, Gaudin in long relief, and a few good arms in the minors, the bullpen is in pretty good shape.
Bodh, Brackman kept his speed up in the one and two innings relief appearances. It’s in his starts that he has trouble. One thing about it. Since 2005, he’s only got 260 innings accumilated…that includes college.
I agree with you Josh. Fill the holes from within. I don’t want to give somebody our first round pick in exchange for a 30 yr old reliever.
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Nah…He doesn’t have Guidry’s speed. He looks ok shagging flies, though. I swear it’s Guidry from behind. Long arms and skinny legs, black hair.
====
There will never be another Guidry. Only Mariano has his grace off the mound. I remember hearing that some members of the Geoffrey ballet in NYC regularly watched Guidry’s starts.
I nearly dropped dead when my Shakespeare teacher, who coaches classical actors and uses something called The Alexander Technique to help them release physically and vocally, talked about people who are innately physical “geniuses.”
He meant they are just in an optimal physical place in terms of self-use. They don’t waste energy, and they are balanced, no matter whether they’re picking up a fork, climbing stairs, standing up from sitting, etc. They experience negligible bodily tension or undue “effort.” These people are always at ease. Great actors and great athletes definitely have this quality, which is unmistakable.
The first day of class, he said “watch old Fred Astaire movies…or watch Derek Jeter. They are two of the most balanced people walking the planet.”
I think that’s something that has eluded the sabermetricians about Jeter. Not only his in-game intelligence, but his nearly flawless sense of balance. Alex is one of the greatest players ever, but Alex does not have this quality. Rivera, Guidry, Jeter….they have it.
I have ESPN Insider, who mentioned Swisher to AZ?
Found it, not much there, just speculation of D Backs, Giants, or Wash being interested.
Bob Nightengale of USA Today tweets today that the New York Yankees are ever so quietly letting teams know that RF Nick Swisher is available.
Swisher has two years and $15.75 million remaining on his contract and could give a club a versatile 1B/DH/OF option with switch-hitting as a bonus.
Swisher isn’t likely to hit for much average, but his career .357 on-base percentage and .371 OBP in 2009 will be attractive to several clubs, or at least those who value the statistic properly.
Might San Francisco or Arizona take a look at Swisher to play first base? Washington, which insists on playing Adam Dunn in the outfield, could also be interested.
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
November 20th, 2009 at 12:44 am
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Nah…He doesn’t have Guidry’s speed. He looks ok shagging flies, though. I swear it’s Guidry from behind. Long arms and skinny legs, black hair.
====
There will never be another Guidry. Only Mariano has his grace off the mound. I remember hearing that some members of the Geoffrey ballet in NYC regularly watched Guidry’s starts.
I nearly dropped dead when my Shakespeare teacher, who coaches classical actors and uses something called The Alexander Technique to help them release physically and vocally, talked about people who are innately physical “geniuses.”
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Those are high praises indeed from someone who make a living being balanced a graceful.
Two other athletes that had that balance….Gayle Sayers and Walter Payton.
Well, I’m too distracted reading about Yeshua ben josef, whom the Christians apparently ignored and omitted when they put together the Apostles Creed. LOL.
Goodnight, ladies and gents.
Thanks for the info, Buddy. I can’t think of any match with either of those teams, unless it’s an expanded deal. I want nothing to do with Chris Young of Arizona or Aaron Rowand at 10 mil a year.
GB7,
Sayers was apparently just unreal. You can even see that different species thing on those old NFL highlight films. My dad and older brother waxed poetic about him many times.
In actors, the ones who can just walk out on a stage and the audience goes all quiet are the ones. The others, who pace, grimace and “work hard” don’t ever make that connection.
If I had to choose a film actor who personifies that kind of steady grace and effortless, noiseless power, I’d have to say it’s Sidney Poitier for me. The man could just look into the camera, and that was it; nothing could be hidden from him or by him.
The rumor (abt Gonzalez and Soriano) is unsourced, but it was also reported that Boston is interested in the physicals of those two. It could be many things:
1) agent drumming up interest in clients by manufacturing interest by two wealthy teams
2) NYY heard rumor and decided to do due
3) NYY genuinely believes in potential of two named pitchers
come to mind first
Bob Nightengale of USA Today tweets today that the New York Yankees are ever so quietly letting teams know that RF Nick Swisher is available.
___
The Yankees have denied the report.
Did the Yanks tweet the denial?
Nick in SF in San Rafael
November 20th, 2009 at 2:21 am
Did the Yanks tweet the denial?
————————————————————
Cashman, being the Stealthman that he is will deny the tweet,
oops, should be
That’s a kind fashion show to raise money for those school baseball teams from elementaryto high school whose not able to continued or destroyed by typhoon morakot.
The NY Post has an article from George King in which a Yankee executive denies the Swisher rumor.
Also, no way Cashman spends a lot of money on a reliever this offseason.
On “Hot Stove” on YES last night they talked about the Swisher rumor and said that Swisher is not being actively shopped, but that the Yankees would be willing to listen to offers.
The Yanks do need to have Andy come back. As they struggled to fill the Mussina Retirement Andy not coming back would be equally as bad.
I also see no reason to spend heavily in the FA reliever market. History shows that to be a crap shoot and the Yanks have gotten mostly crap from those investments… although Marte’s performance in the post season was worth his whole contract as far as I’m concerned.
It would be a surprise if the Yanks do anything significant before Andy Pettite informs them of his intentions. Of course for all we know he might have.
Actually Cashman would neither confirm nor deny the existence of the tweet but would also point out that no further tweets are imminent.
I’m taking all bits of “news” with a huge grain of salt. This is the time of year that the Yankees’ name pops up everywhere. They’re “interested” in everybody and “nobody” is untouchable on their roster.
It’s a form of mild amusement and entertainment, but I don’t take it seriously.
You have to think, where would MLB and free agency be without the Yankees to “bat” around?
A bullpen staff is an inexact science.
In the case of the Yankees they’re better positioned than many if not all teams leading up to the best closer in the game.
Spring training will see the Yankees with less questions than they’ve had in several years.
The 8th inning role needs to be established if one of either Joba or Hughes becomes a starter.
Melancon has to show that he’s ready to be part of the mix and match Joe Girardi uses up to the last inning.
Aceves, Gaudin, and Mitre will battle it out for a long relief role.
This morning, on MLB.com:
“Scott Boras, Damon’s agent, has made it clear that he is seeking a multiyear deal for Damon, annually comparable to the contract that pays Derek Jeter more than $21 million every year.”
Unless Boras reduces his demands by 50%+, the only way we see Damon in YS next year is in a visiting uniform.
Bye, bye Johnny.
Also, no way Cashman offers Damon or Matsui arbitration. He’s not paying either one of them 14-15M next year. They either come back under Cashman’s terms or he gets other players such as Cameron, Granderson or whomever.
I like the in-house bullpen options for the Yankees, except for one thing. I think the only potential 8th inning guy anybody really seems to trust is Robertson. Yet, he is largely unproven, and Girardi himself showed little trust in him during the playoffs.
If he stumbles, then what? Marte was very good in the PS for 13 batters, not 13 innings. He can be capable, but he is not a rock solid plan going into the season.
If they have an opportunity to get a solid option w/o giving up too much, I think they have to do it.
Yikes Mark, that is unrealistic of Damon. Hopefully it is the ask for more than what you really want tactic. The YES hot stove (thanks Fran for mentioning the show last week) seemed to think Damon would be back for 2 years if I am remembering correctly.
My last post is missing..
basically, the other things are his contract, he said before Dec.13 tw time (Dec.12 ET’s deadline for tender contract) he’s an yankees, anything happen after that, he will see what happens and discuss with agent, and NYY is first choice but not rule out any other team, if needed to consider. However, to him the most important thing is his rehab…
he show some rehab and training moves to the media…
after the conference, they went back to Tainan.
same as at the airport earlier, media are waiting to ask qeustions and with SNG…
Wang’s next public appearance will be on 26th (25th rehearsal), that’s a fashion show with baseball players as models and with real models, that is organized by CT basebll assoication. That’s a kind fashion show to raise money for those school baseball teams from elementaryto high school whose team not able to continued or school /field has been destroyed by typhoon morakot.
players attend: Wang (NYY), Kuo and Hu (LAD), Ni (DET), Chen (OAK minors), Lo (SEA minors), Lo (HOU minors),Chen (CHC minors), Lin (BOS minors), Lee (CLE minors), Chen (Chunichi Dragons), Cheng (HANSHIN Tigers), and 2 CPBL players, and 1 amateur
“I’m taking all bits of “news” with a huge grain of salt. This is the time of year that the Yankees’ name pops up everywhere. They’re “interested” in everybody and “nobody” is untouchable on their roster.”
Doreen,
We all know this is Cashman’s season to play his type of game. He has basically gone underground and will keep his cards close to the vest until he executes his moves.
As someone stated yesterday, Cashmoney is now in stealth mode. Anything he says in public from now going forward to January is for a certain purpose or effect.
Well, all I’ll say is that Damon has to decide whether he wants Boras to make his decision for him or whether he wants to be his own man. The Yankees will, I believe, make 1 offer (whether it’s for 1 and an option or two years, I prefer the former)……..I don’t know how much, but it will not be for $21 million, lol. Damon can take or leave the offer, but I do not believe there will be much, if any, room for negotiation. Cash and Boras have a good relationship, so I’m sure that this stuff is going in one of Cash’s ears and out the other. If Boras pulls this stunt to Cash’s face personally, I think the Yanks will just move on. It doesn’t matter how much Johnny wants to return if he doesn’t take charge of his own career. In any case, no team is giving Johnny $21 million; Boras is posturing, but he sounds idiotic.
Boras said the same stuff re: Andruw Jones years ago and Jones ended up negotiating his own contract with the Braves.
Scott can say whatever he wants. That’s his job.
The marketplace will determine Damon’s status.
If someone out there offers him a 3 year deal, he’s gone.
Realistically though, the Bobby Abreu contract is probably the more likely starting (and ending) point in a Damon contract with any team.
2 years, 19 million with a club option for Year 3.
When all is said and done, I bet that’s the area where Damon’s deal ends up.
Unless Boras changes his demands, the only way Johnny gets into YS next year is with a ticket. Nobody is going to pay him that kind of money.
It’s so much fun watching Cashman in “stealth mode”, lol……I get a kick out of the idea that no one ever knows what he is thinking or doin.
“I like the in-house bullpen options for the Yankees, except for one thing. I think the only potential 8th inning guy anybody really seems to trust is Robertson. Yet, he is largely unproven, and Girardi himself showed little trust in him during the playoffs.”
It’s much too early to see which pitcher will step up to that role in 2010. I don’t think Cashman worries about it right now, he’s more incline to have enough power arms available at Girardi’s disposal and see what happens during the course of the season.
I don’t think I want a 2 year guaranteed contract for Damon……
Some of you take agent speak way too seriously.
An agent’s job is to get the most money for his client. To do so, he’s going to position him in the most favorable light. That’s the spin that goes with the job. He wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t spin heavily in favor of his client.
At the end of the day, especially in these economic times, deals end up where they end up.
Scott’s whole strategy for years has been the “one dumb owner” philosophy. He believes there is always “one dumb owner”, who will overpay.
When that doesn’t happen, his guys fall into line with everybody else. I suspect it will be no different with Damon.
“Some of you take agent speak way too seriously.”
No kidding, especially since it’s been reported that Cashman hasn’t even talked with Boras. Right now, the only thing we got to comment on is rumors and direct quotes from certain agents.
I think teams waste too much money with bullpen guys. They are too up and down from year to year.
We saw the millions the Yankees wasted on bullpen guys.
Right now, the Yankees bullpen is as good as anybody’s in baseball.
Two solid lefty options in Marte and Coke. Don’t believe me? Look at other rosters and find 3 staffs with better lefites coming out of the pen.
They have Gaudin, Aceves, Robertson, Bruney, Joba (who will probably end up in the bullpen), and Mo. They also have several very interesting arms in the minors who may be ready at some point in the season.
For right now, that’s more than enough.
I’d add a starter before I add a bullpen arm if I am going to be paying big bucks.
Sign Andy and Ben Sheets, put Joba back in the bullpen, and its the best pitching staff in baseball.
Of course Boras’ job is to get the most for his client. I get a kick out of him. But I wonder how he can say some of that stuff with a straight face.
SJ
Agree completely about Damon. I suspect the Yankees will make him the same offer. I also suspect he will take it.
What would the comp on Matsui be?
Crawdaddy,
Right now, all the rumors coming out are agents calling the Ken Rosenthal’s and Jon Heyman’s of the world and pimping for their clients.
Funny how the Yankees are in on everybody, isn’t it? lol
That’s because if the Yankees are “in” on somebody, it raises that player’s profile and bank account on the open market.
For those of us on this blog that follow the team closely, we know Cash isn’t committing 6 million a year on a bullpen arm. That rumor (the Soriano/Gonzalez stuff) doesn’t pass the laugh test.
The Yankees have 1-2 spots in the rotation to fill, LF and DH. All of which are bigger priorities than the bullpen.
If Cash is committing big bucks to anybody, its to fill those holes. They have enough within the organization at this time to fill out the bullpen.
Matsui is in a tough spot. Nobody in the game feels he can play in the field anymore.
That makes his strictly a DH. Limits his market.
You start running down teams in the AL who need a DH.
You then start eliminating teams (like KC, for example) that won’t pay him the bucks he’s looking for or (Boston for example) don’t need a DH. Further limits his market.
That makes for a very small market for Matsui.
I could see him ending up in Anaheim since I don’t believe they will re-sign Vlad. That may be his most likely landing spot if he doesn’t re-up with the Yankees.
Its going to be interesting to see what happens if Cash puts offers on the table for Damon and Matsui and says, “first one to take it is in”.
It had been mentioned that Cash wasn’t around much during the WS celebration. I was watching an MLB WS show I had recorded and a wet Cash, along w/ his daughter, were spraying Swish w/ champagne.
Putting 21M per year out there for Damon is obviously posturing, but that’s a long way from the 7-9M per year that teams would likely be willing to pay.
My point is that even if the eventual dollars for Damon come down to that, it will take a long time for it to move that far. I don’t think the Yanks will have a LF need by that time.
It is one thing if he is saying 21M, knowing the eventual market will bear 16M, but to go from 21M to 7-9M will involve Damon getting involved and a lot of egg on Boras. He is going to be committed to keeping the Damon #s as close to that as possible until he is totally ignored by the league.
Matsui and Vlad are a reasonable comparison.
I’d still expect around 30/100 for each of them in 10.
Offer would likely the the same? $8-10 million x 1 with a club option for year 2 if they pushed.
Sheets is interesting. Maybe the Yankees are thinking risk of Wang versus risk of Sheets? I’d give one or both small, one year incentive laden deals, looking at Doc at the end of 10.
I’m off to LI to pick up daughter for Thanksgiving break.
For the purposes of today’s discussions, I am in basic agreement with SJ44 (and those of the same mind) with regard to any and all agent-speak, trade rumors, bullpen construction and possible FA signings!
Have a great time everyone!
Matsui’s market is NYY, LAA, CWS, and maybe one or two others. With all the other DHs out there, it is a buyers market with a few DH types probably forced into retirement.
On the Damon vs. Sui thing:
I think you first have to decide if Damon is going to be the LF or DH. If you don’t plan to play Damon in LF, maybe you bring back Sui instead.
Sui is a prooven DH and will cost less than Damon in both $$ and years.
I’m not sold on Damon in LF for 2 more years, I see him as more of a DH.
Another thing to consider with these guys is which spot in the lineup is easier to fill? #2 or #5? a LH power bat behind Alex, like Sui, would seem to be a harder spot to fill.
Exactly Mark, the DH types will get less money because the market is loaded with them. The Yanks will be patient and most likely end up with Damon or Matsui but not both. I would not go over $ 8 Million for either one.
If I could sign DeRosa and either one I’d like that.
Boras didn’t actually used the Jeter salary figure. We all just extrapolated it from the comparison he made. No person on the planet is giving Johnny that much and, frankly it’s doubtful he gets that much for TWO seasons.
I agree with SJ on pitching. If Andy comes back and they can take a flyer on Sheets and/or Wang either Joba or Phil goes to the pen.
Just hope they stick with eleven pitchers and not the roster paralyzing 12 they carried too frequently in 2009.
Yanks should get Soriano, he was a beast in Seattle