Why 39 is too many, not too little
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Here’s the question (or two) I’ve been reading: Why did the Yankees leave an open spot on the 40-man? Why not use that spot to protect another prospect from the Rule 5 draft?
Truth is, the Yankees already have too many players on the 40-man.
For every major league free agent the Yankees sign — and they seem likely to sign at least a left fielder, a designated hitter and a starting pitcher — they have to find a spot on the roster. There’s one spot open, but every other free agent addition comes at the cost of someone currently on the roster.
A spot might open by non-tendering Chien-Ming Wang (if that is, in fact, what the Yankees decide to do). Sergio Mitre might be a non-tender candidate as well (just a guess). Other spots could open through trades. Point is, something is going to have to change unless the Yankees are content to sign only one free agent this winter.
It’s very difficult to lose a player through the Rule 5 draft. Four Yankees were taken last year and none stuck. It’s very easy to lose a player through waivers. Steven Jackson, Anthony Claggett and Dan Giese jump to mind as Yankees who were claimed last year. Protecting too many players and having to DFA one of them can be worse than protecting too few players and running the risk of losing one in the Rule 5.
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on Saturday, November 21st, 2009 at 11:10 am by Chad Jennings.
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Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Best guess is that you’d lose Garcia and Mitre, but since I don’t really know what I’m talking about, it might just be best to ignore me =)
Yeah, I’m sure Cashman totally overlooked that scenario. He doesn’t have a clue how any of this works.
I’m not suggesting Cashman overlooked it, just pointing out that the 40-man is not as open as it seems. Protecting another player would ultimately have cost the Yankees someone else.
If I recall what has happened in the past when the Yanks sign free agents they usually do not make it official until after the Rule 5 draft so that they then have additional flexibility when the re-sign some of their own free agents and then do not run the risk of losing players in the rule 5. At least I think that is how I remember it.
Chad, don’t you get a sense that a trade or trades are coming as well? Roster construction is a process not a static event, it will take a bit of time to work this thing out just as it did last year and in prior years.
If Josh Johnson has reached an impasse with the Marlins, the Yankees would do well to look into that immediately.
Of course, only in the event that he’d discuss an extension would I have any interest in trading for him.
November 20 at 6:12pm CST]
ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick is reporting that contract extension talks between Josh Johnson and the Marlins have reached an impasse, and that the righthander will not agree to a new deal with the team at all.
“Based on our conversations, there’s no chance of doing a long-term deal with the Marlins,” [Johnson's agent Matt] Sosnick said. “We made it clear that it was going to be this year or it wasn’t going to happen. It was now or never. And the Marlins agreed.”
Sosnick says that Johnson made it clear he wanted to remain with the team, “but they just weren’t comfortable going to the fourth year.” Marlins’ GM Michael Hill wouldn’t comment on the negotiations as per team policy.
The 25-year-old Johnson had a 3.23 ERA in 33 starts for the Marlins this year, making his first All Star Team. The righty earned $1.45MM in 2009, and has two more years of arbitration eligibility remaining before he hits the free agent market. Sosnick added that given his age and performance, Johnson’s next contract could be worth nine figures.
From mlbtr.com
Who knows? He would be costly, but very tempting.
it’s really time to unload miranda. he’d fit on the mets. and i still don’t get this infatuation the Yankees have with mitre.
http://bluejays.fandome.com/vi.....ommercial/
Weird commercial from when AJ was a Jay…..
would love to have Josh but he will definitely cost Joba or Hughes and the Marlins will ask for Montero also(no way) and somebody else
how about Hughes(ouch),Romine,Nunez(ouch) for JJ
the staff then is CC,JJ,AJ,Andy and Joba! Wow!!!
It matters little either way.
Jackson, Claggett, and Geise were going to add very little to the team, if anything. Just like whomever they remove from the 40 man for major league free agents.
It is six of one, a half dozen of the other. None of the players are needed in the Bronx.
Betsy,
If they made a NY version of that, they would have to put Molina on the truck before he’d get it right.
if Miranda, who we have signed for 535k, can replace Matsui as the primary LH Dh and hit .280/25hrs/80-90rbis in 480abs
we would we have to get rid of him?
I would say for Cash, who is looking to bring payroll down and looking at bringing Damon back a 2yrs/20mil(please don’t) or Matsui 1yr/8mil, Miranda is very valuable because if you decide to spend those $’s elsewhere than Miranda for 535k gives you an in house replacement to take that dh spot for cheap.
All Miranda is doing now,hitting almost .500 in the Dominincan League,is what Kendry Morales did last year when he tore up the DWL convincing the Angels that if Tex walked that he would be ready to step in and take those abs. How’d that work out? he was the MVP of their team and duplicated Tex’s production for $800k as opposed to the $22mil that Tex got.
I’ve been saying for a year and a half i think that Miranda could be a real impact bat for us and then spot is open for him to step in.He’s proven that his talent is real and i for one hope that we don’t resign Damon(please) and let Matsui walk(loved ya Godzilla) but rather give Miranda the DH spot for 535k and spend that saved $ elsewhere..like maybe trading a package NOT including Montero/AJax/Joba for Johnson and then extending JJ and signing Aroldis Chapman for 5yr/25mil
I think some of the 40 man decisions were made with knowledge of some deals they may pull the trigger on.
LOL Mark…..I think Chad or Sam (or Josh) posted during the parade that AJ got hit with toilet paper and he threw it back…..so, in a way, this commercial foretells his future, lol. Also, he had long hair – not a fan of it; he doesn’t even look the same, lol.
Thanks for the perspective Chad.
Juan Miranda hit .290/.369/.498 as a 26 year old in the international league. If you think he’s capable of replacing Matsui’s production (or even doing half of what Kendry Morales did last year) you’re a bit delusional.
Kendry was a top prospect for a very long time who was expected to put up numbers like this for several years now. Miranda is a useful platoon/bench bat, if that, and if we go into next season with him as our primary DH we would be downgrading significantly.
If “losing” Sergio Mitre is wrong, I don’t want to be right.
Nice piece but why is it that “they seem likely to at least…sign a pitcher? I get the need to sign a left fielder and DH but again why a pitcher?
messin’ with my frozen zone
November 21st, 2009 at 12:05 pm
If “losing” Sergio Mitre is wrong, I don’t want to be right.
LOL
I’ve only been awake for a few, but did you guys already discuss Aroldis Chapman firing his agents on another thread?
Phil
Was his agent the Patriots and Red Sox fan with the Twitter?
Champ, sorry – I just saw your post in the other thread now. Thank you – lots of good info. Laird is an interesting prospect and I willfollow both he and Nunez with interest. Hopefully the latter can harness his ability – this year should be an important one for him.
WOOOOOOHOOOOO
http://twitter.com/athletespremier
That’s the guy! It appears as if Edwin was attempting to persuade or force Chapman to sign with the Red Sox for cheap. And Chapman must have said he’ll have none of that.
CR9,
they were, but the new bad news is that he’s hired the Hendricks Brothers who the Yankees have had some problems with.
Phil
I recant half of my WOOOHOOO then.
On the other hand, with Andy winding down, perhaps the Brothers will want to start anew with the Yanks going forward.
here’s a couple more good articles about the farm/prospects..Montero/Romine and lil Murphy
BaseLines for November 12
By JED WEISBERGER
http://www.trentonthunder.com
Two catchers. Two styles. Two superb prospects.
For at least part of the 2010 season, Thunder fans will have a ringside seat for what is becoming the great debate of catchers in Minor League Baseball.
Eastern League pitchers, however, may be the ones to suffer the most as both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine display their wares and try to reach their respective potential.
In one corner, we have Montero, the man-child who will turn 20 next week. We all saw what he could do in the second half of the 2009 season, batting .317 (53-for-167) with nine homers and 33 RBIs in 44 Thunder appearances before a broken hand prematurely ended his season in August.
Offensively, the native of Venezuela, who was signed for a reported $1.65 million in 2006 by scouts Carlos Rios and Ricardo Final, was all that was advertised. One could easily see why Montero was the South Atlantic League batting champion at .326 in 2008.
He can drive any pitch to any part of the ballpark with near-elite bat speed. Montero also quickly learned pitch recognition, as neither speed nor location seemed to deter his power.
Everyone has noticed. Montero, a likable sort, has been an All-Star in each League he has played in – the SAL, Florida State and Eastern – and was selected to play in baseball’s Futures Game in both 2008 and 2009.
Defensively, he remains a work in progress. During his time with the Thunder, one could see the improvement in his mechanics behind the plate. At 6-foot-4, 225, he is big for a catcher. The Yankees envision him as a Mike Piazza type, others see him as no more than a designated hitter because they feel he is not flexible to enough to play any other position but first base.
And, of course, Mark Teixeira will be manning that position for the Yankees in The Bronx for,what is it, seven more years.
Montero always seems to be steeped in a bit of mystery. For instance, he is playing Winter Ball in Magallanes, in the Venezuelan League. He is batting a mere .115 (3-for-26) in nine games and did not play between Oct. 25 and Nov. 5.
Is his hand still bothering him? Is his batting eye off? Detailed information is not always easy to come by in the Venezuelan Winter League. This is certainly a situation to keep an eye on until spring training.
In the other corner we have Romine, son of former big-leaguer Kevin Romine, who is more accomplished behind the plate than Montero. Drafted by the Yankees in the second round in 2007, he comes from an athletic family – brother Andrew is in the Angels system.
The Yankees love his baseball savvy. Romine, who will turn 21 Nov. 22, is envisioned by some as the successor to Jorge Posada – former Thunder catcher Francisco Cervelli may have something to say about that – as he also has outstanding power potential.
Romine comes to Trenton off an exceptional 2009 in which he led the Class A Advanced Tampa Yankees to the Florida State League championship, batting .276 (122-for-442) with 13 homers and 72 RBIs . He was named both FSL MVP and the league’s Topps Player of the Year.
His leadership skills are also developing, as is his handling of pitchers. Offensively, he is projected as a player who could hit 20-25 home runs.
Romine also played Winter Baseball briefly, appearing in four games for the Surprise club in the Arizona Fall League, batting .400 (6-for-15) in four games.
The two have played together before, both at Charleston and Tampa. The protocol has been for one to catch one day, the other to serve as DH, then reverse their roles the next day.
While the two are in Trenton next season, this debate will rage among scouts, fans and other observers. Who is the Yankees’ catcher of the future? Is it one of the two, Cervelli or highly touted J.R.Murphy, whom the Yanks drafted last June out of the Pendleton School in Bradenton, Fla?
Murphy could make his way to Charleston in 2010, but he appeared in just nine games with the Gulf Coast Yankees in 2009, hitting .333 (11-for-33). Think of him as a 2011 Thunder player.
Meanwhile, it will be Montero and Romine honing their skills behind the plate for the 2010 Thunder, with both no doubt hitting for average and power. And with first baseman Brandon Laird poised for a breakout season, there should not be any longball shortage with the 2010 Trenton club.
Montero vs. Romine. This is what Minor League Baseball is all about.
********************************************
Cash and the player development drive in the Org…..
BaseLines for November 6
By JED WEISBERGER
http://www.trentonthunder.com
The change really began in 2005, when Yankees general manager Brian Cashman resolved his conflicts with others in the organization and began buillding from both within and without.
For several years, the Yankees did not emphasize the draft, concentrating on signing high-priced talent (remember the days of Jaret Wright). There were also top picks that never panned out, such as Eric Duncan (2003) and C.J. Henry (2005).
New faces and new talent evaluators began mixing with the old, and the 2006 draft was a turnaround, in which the Yankees nabbed pitchers Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy, Dellin Betances, Mark Melancon and David Robertson.
All with the exception of the oft-injured Betances have played with championship Thunder teams and moved on. The 2005 draft, beyond Henry, was not a bust, either, as Brett Gardner was taken third and Austin Jackson eighth. Both players were key cogs in the Thunder championships in 2007-08.
“As long as this general manager is in place, you will see a lot of talent pass through Trenton,’’ said an American League scout. “The Yankees have the money to both sign the free-agents they need and build from within.
“That combination will always allow them to compete, in both areas.’’
Cashman has been a frequent visitor to Waterfront Park to see some of his top prospects. With a contract through the 2011 season, he is a firm believer in both development and free-agency for continued success in The Bronx.
“We definitely have to do both,’’ he said. “We want to build our minor-league system, and hopefully win while we are doing it, and sign the free-agents we need.’’
The satisfaction Thunder fans feel about the Yankees’ 2009 World Series triumph is just how much of a Trenton touch the team has. More than a dozen players who came through Trenton – as a prospect or on rehab – played in the World Series. A total of 23 on the roster were recent Thunder performers.
There have been a few setbacks. Phil Hughes, the Yankees’ No.1 pick in 2004, fought injuries and inconsistency in 2008, as did Kennedy. This led to the signings of C.C. Sabathia and A.J.Burnett. The Yankees also hoped Betances would be much further along.
Pitcher Andrew Brackman, who was given a $4.55 million bonus in 2007, has struggled with inconsistency, while third baseman Brad Suttle, the fourth pick, hopes to make it to the Thunder in 2010 after a lost season.
On the other hand, catcher Austin Romine will form quite a tandem behind the plate with Jesus Montero to start 2010 in Trenton.
Three 2008 draftees – LHP Jeremy Bleich, who got a taste of Double-A in 2009, and two righties – D.J.Mitchell and David Phelps – both ready for Double-A – could be key performers for the Thunder in 2010. So could switch pitcher Pat Venditte, who is an attraction in himself.
The Yankees have concentrated on pitching in the draft, but are now looking to add some power bats and position prospects. That is the reason power-hitting outfielder Slade Heathcote and catcher J.R. Murphy were the club’s top two picks in 2009.
Cashman has also relied in his Caribbean scouts to bring in talent. One such scout who has found players in recent years, and deserves credit is Lee Sigman in Mexico, who signed infielder Ramiro Pena and pitchers Alfredo Aceves,who passed through Trenton last season and played in the World Series, and lefty Manny Banuelos, who also could make his way to Trenton in 2010.
Then there are the men who work Venezuela (catchers Jesus Montero and Francisco Cervelli and outfielder Kelvin DeLeon) and the Dominican Republic (RHP Jairo Heredia and LHP Wilkin de la Rosa).
What is key in the organization is development is stressed much more than it was several years ago. This is Cashman’s plan, one which brought a World Series title to the Yankees, two championships to Trenton and one each to Class A Advanced Tampa and Triple-A Scranton over the last three seasons.
“Something that really helped me going through the system is we won on a consistent basis,’’ said Gardner, who split time with Melky Cabrera in center field for the Yankees this season. “We got a taste of what we aim for.’’
Given what has passed through and what is on deck – the 2009 Tampa contingent will come to Trenton after winning the Florida State League crown – continued success in both South Trenton and The Bronx seems assured.
**************************************
FROM MAINE TO OHIO: First baseman Brandon Laird continues to hammer
I don’t think this was covered above, but one reason the Yankees might set the roster at 39 is to leave room for drafting a rule 5 player for themselves.
Is there a link about Chapman firing his agents? Thanks
Champ, thanks!
Montero’s struggles worry me – who knows how his broken hand will effect him? .115 is pretty awful……….
I favor Romine……to me, he’s a very interesting prospect. What teams did his father play for? For some reason, the name is very familiar….did he play for the Royals?
That is, I know Montero is a better prospect, but I’m more inclined to follow Romine…..
Juan Miranda was signed at a time when the Yankees were still burdened with Giambi’s contract.
With Teixeira on board for several years to come, Miranda’s career is stalled with his inability to do anymore than play 1st base and DH. His best bet is to be dealt.
Christian Garcia is talented but can’t stay off the DL long enough to find his ceiling.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....p?c_id=nyy
G-C
November 21st, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Juan Miranda hit .290/.369/.498 as a 26 year old in the international league. If you think he’s capable of replacing Matsui’s production (or even doing half of what Kendry Morales did last year) you’re a bit delusional.
Kendry was a top prospect for a very long time who was expected to put up numbers like this for several years now. Miranda is a useful platoon/bench bat, if that, and if we go into next season with him as our primary DH we would be downgrading significantly.
*********************************************************
actually let’s look at it;
Kendry Morales is 26yrs old, has been playing ball in the Angels system for 4 seasons and his line prior too full time work this season was
127games over 3 seasons
.250 avg/376 abs/12hrs not top prospect like right? he had the advantage of being signed and going directly into the Angels AAA team and hitting .320/12hrs in the Pacific coast league an extreme hitters league those aren’t eyepopping #’s
with an everyday opportunity he showed that the talent in his bat from Cuba translated to the majors and the Angels have a player.
Miranda is the same age as Kendry.
Miranda was actually a better player than Kendry in Cuba albeit slightly but he was one of the top power/rbi guys on the cuban national team and was an all star.
Mirand missed over two years in development in the Dominican getting his paperwork straightened out and has been playing for two years stateside in our system.
At every level we’ve played him and everywhere we’ve sent him AA/AAA and Arizona Fall League he’s been voted all star and recognized as one of the top power/rbi guys in those leagues.
He’s currently on fire in the Dominican winter ball league similar to how Kendry turned a huge season in the Dominican last year into an everyday job and an allstar season in LA this year.
How is it “delusional” to think that a guy who’s been a .300+/25-30hr/rbi guy since 15yrs old and an all star from little league up until last week who is currently hitting .536 with a obp .594 and ops 1.487 in a competitive league against other major leaguers maybe ready at 26yrs old to step in an be a very productive player and LH bat for the Yanks?
any real response other than “he can’t” let’s get Brad Hawpe for “10mil? or a 37yr old Damon for 20mil?
you clearly missed the 460ft homer he hit in Tampa as well huh? How do you think a lh true power bat would play in our lineup/stadium?
Nevermind, here’s the link:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4677068
Not great news as the Yankees do not have a fantastic relationship with the Hendricks……Chapman will probably go to the Sox
Betsy
No reason to think that. If anything, his former agent was reason for concern for him going to the Red Sox. Andy’s agents are the Hendricks. The Red Sox have become a bit stingy over the past couple years.
CR9, why was Mejija reason for concern about Chapman to the Sox? I’m not familiar with that story……..thanks! That’s the thing – the Hendricks and the Yankees have had testy relations over Andy recently. Of course, $$$ would smooth over alot of rough patches…….
He won’t go to the Sox.
Stan
here is why i disagree with you regarding Miranda and the best option is dealing him.
as you say he’s a 1b/dh but really more of an offensive player and an adequate glove.
the Yanks right now have a hole at the DH spot and are looking to replace a LH power/rbi bat in Matsui.
our backup 1b should Tex go down with injury is Swisher who if we have to play him at 1b leaves a hole in RF.
to bring back Matsui would require commiting probably $30mil to 2 aging 36yr old/breaking down players whose best basball is certainly behind thim and leave us very susceptible to injury as a team next season.
the Steinbrenners and Cash have repeatedly stated that the goal is to lower payroll,get younger and have more financial flexability.
Miranda helps to accomplish address all of this if he’s on the team next season as the primary DH/backup 1b.
his bat profiles similar to Matsui and he’s shown that he can hit. He’ll never show it in the BX until they write his name in the lineup and let him have at it.
Assuming thescouts and Cash and Newman were right in giving him $2mil to come to the org. and he is what we think he is then a .280-.290/25hr/85-90rbi campaign as the LH primary dh in the 6/7 spot in the lineup is exactly what we’re looking to replace(Matsui’s #’s).
By going with Miranda for 535k and saving at the minimum $7.5mil(assuming Matsui would get 8mil/1yr) then you’ve just lowered payroll by at least that much.
If you also think that you don’t want Damon in the field and you’ve filled the DH spot with Miranda now it becomes clearer that you can save another $20+mil by letting Damon go and atleast spending that better in upgrading LF.
you’ve replaced a 37yr old breaking down player with a 27yr old breaking in player.
You have Tex’s backup/insurance on your roster and swish stays in RF should something happen.
The Yanks the last 4-5 years have been rewarded handesomely when they’ve promotoed from within and given our guys first crack to prove themselves. they should continue with Miranda and redirect those saved dollars to other areas inthe roster/Org. i.e Chapman 30milsaved Damon/Matsui= 30mil to Chapman to sign a 21yr old lefty with a 100+mph fastball i.e. younger,athletic,high ceiling you know the new Mantra.
Betsy
The guy grew up and went to all different schools in Boston, business school and so on. He is a Red Sox and Patriots fan and already said he was trying to get Chapman to be a Patriots fan. It’s not that far a stretch to think that he wanted Chapman to be a member of the Red Sox, and for a lesser price. Probably why Chapman canned his behind.
Disagree all you want but the Yankees won’t need to be top heavy with DH types if both Matsui and Damon are signed, trying to fit Posada in some DH time with the emergence of good young catching, and trying to extend the careers of Jeter and A-Rod beginning in 2011 by giving them at bats as a DH whenever possible.
The Yankees also had very tense moments with Arn Tellem in the past, but, there he was in Chicago trying to talk to Cashman at the meetings last week. Any agent who represents players of high caliber is going to have contentious times with all teams. Agents have among the thickest skin of anybody.
Look at Boras, Arod “fired” him to negotaiate his own deal, yet Boras is still trying to get the Yankees involved in his clients.
Any agent who would steer his clients away from the biggest payer in baseball because of his own personal issues is not going to last very long.
Chad has done a great job with his reporting on the minor league players in the Yankee system.
1. One thought about the 40-man – some of the guys recently put on it may be to protect them for possible inlcusion in a trade, whether for Granderson or Halladay; both, or someone else. That could indicate that something might be imminent, and that these are the guys who are actively being discussed.
2. Some of the minor leaguers, despite being good ballplayers, with good numbers and promise, have next to no chance to play in the Bronx. Guys like Tex, Jeter, and ARod aren’t going away, and neither are CC and AJ. The organization has put too much effor into Joba and Phil to let them go at this point, in my opinion.
Therefore, Miranda, some of the A or AA pitchers, might be trade bait, along with Ian Kennedy. Remember, the package doesn’t have to be eye-popping (Joba, Phil, AJax, Montero), it only has to be better than what the Red Sox and Phillies can put together to get a deal done.
champ809,
The problem with Miranda in place of Matsui is that you may have to have a right handed bat to spell him. His #s against lefties have not been great in the minors, there is no reason to think he will be better against ML lefties. It would also be a major downgrade in the 5th spot, since Posada may get as many as 2 games off per week. We could on occasion, be looking at a 5-9 of:
Miranda
Swisher
Melky
Cervelli
Gardner
And one more thought, about Shelley Duncan. Sorry to see him go, but he wasn’t going to fit in the Bronx. Chad is right, he needs major league ABs at this point, he has nothing left to prove in AAA.
As a New Yorker, I think the Mets should give him a shot. How much worse can he be than Daniel Murphy and Gary Sheffield in the OF?
I cant believe people think Miranda can replace Matsui’s bat on this board. Cmon. Some of you are too high on prospects. These guys have done nothing at the ML level yet
Sign Pettitte to a 1-Year, Sign Matsui to a 1-Year, Sign Damon to a 1 or 2 year if you can with a club option…..if not let him walk. Mike Cameron in CF for a year….consider a LF option via FA or a trade for a SP. Other than that I wouldn’t do anything else. Then reload again next offseason at a couple positions.
Jeter
Damon
Teixeira
Rodriguez
Matsui
Posada
Cano
Swisher
Cameron
That lineup can repeat.