Arbitration decisions on the horizon
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 01, 2009 
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The Yankees have until midnight to make their decisions about whether to offer arbitration to their departing free agents. Johnny Damon is a Class A free agent, Xavier Nady and Andy Pettitte are Class B, and offering arbitration to any of those three would land the Yankees an extra draft pick (or two) if that player were to sign with another team. Of course, if any of those players were to accept arbitration, the Yankees would have no choice but to re-sign him at a price determined by a third party.
At mlb.com, Tom Singer wrote that he doesn’t expect the Yankees to offer arbitration to anyone. I agree that offering arbitration to Nady and Pettitte makes no sense (puts too much money on the table for Nady, Pettitte seems unlikely to sign elsewhere anyway) but Damon is an interesting case. If he were to accept, Damon would probably earn more than the Yankees would like to pay, but a one-year deal with Damon might not be the worst-case scenario for left field. If Damon were to decline arbitration — that’s what I think would happen – the Yankees would land two extra draft picks.
Basically, does the risk of overpaying Damon for one year outweigh the potential benefit of two draft picks?
By the way, those compensation draft picks can be huge. David Wright, anyone? Yankees right fielder Nick Swisher was a compensation draft pick of the Oakland Athletics. He was compensation for… you guessed it… Johnny Damon.
Phil Hughes was a first we got from Andy Pettitte going to Houston. Joba Champberlain was a comp pick we got from losing Flash Gordon.
We HAVE to offer Damon arbitration, right? Jackson really needs one more year in AAA, correct?
Or do we not need him, and Jackson is ready for Center, Melky to Right, and we get two picks for him.
My real question is, who will be batting second if Damon goes?
Chad: Can the Yankees offer arb to Matsui? No one is mentioning him in the arb discussions.
wallypip,
no point in offerring Matsui arb. He’s not an a or b FA, so we would get no compensation if we lost him, and his new deal would have to be based on what he was making.
I think this year will be the same as last year where they don’t offer arb to anybody.
I see. I thought the Yankees might try to secure him at one year, but they certainly wouldn’t want to give him an arbitration hearing.
I would be surprise to see Cashman take that chance of offering arbitration for Damon. He didn’t last year with Abreu and I don’t see him doing it this time with Damon.
I would like to see Damon get offered arbitration, but I don’t think it is going to happen. This waiting for Yankee news is killing me…
Abreau wasn’t a lead off / 2 hole batter. Damon is way more valuable than Abreau was. Plus he isn’t afraid of the wall.
I think the Damon decision should inform us of the overall plan on a broad basis. Offering Damon arbitration has to be the smart play unless we have determined we are going to invest in a FA outfielder or are looking at a trade. If he accepts we have him for only one year which is really what we need him for. If he declines we get draft picks if he signs elsewhere. Again, I don’t see the down side unless they want to to invest in a FA outfielder or are looking at a trade. If the plan is to bring Jackson up (which I doubt) they’ll need Damon anyway.
If you offer Damon arbitration, he becomes a 15-18 million dollar player in 2010. He’s good but, not that good. Too much money to tie up on him, even if its only for one year.
I don’t see them offering arbitration to anybody.
Damon is a great guy, great for the clubhouse, and I was very happy the Yanks got him four years ago. Offensively, he is still formidable, but it seems that he needs Yankee Stadium to put up the kind of numbers he did this year.
Defensively…well…there’s no other way to put it… he’s just not good anymore. Looks terrible on anything not hit right at him, and cannot throw.
I expect the Yanks to go hard after Granderson or Sizemore (even though Sizemore is not exactly getting good publicity these days….yikes).
Grady Sizemore isn’t on the market. The Indians have no intentions of trading him.
“If you offer Damon arbitration, he becomes a 15-18 million dollar player in 2010. He’s good but, not that good. Too much money to tie up on him, even if its only for one year.
I don’t see them offering arbitration to anybody.”
I agree!
“Abreu wasn’t a lead off / 2 hole batter. Damon is way more valuable than Abreu was. Plus he isn’t afraid of the wall.”
Not to mention, I don’t think the Yankees actually wanted Abreu back… where Damon they may. But still, arbitration might overpay him by more than a little.
But the way Johnny talks and always wants the best deal, is it really much of a chance for a guy that almost certainly would turn it down? Why not have one of those verbal agreements that they’ll offer it and he’ll turn it down…….
Sherman thinks Arod should have been sportsman of the year:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....bT4AYgdJoM
“Of course, if any of those players were to accept arbitration, the Yankees would have no choice but to re-sign him at a price determined by a third party.”
Not quite.
Yankees submit offer.
Player submits counter-offer.
Arbitrator chooses which of the two contracts is closest to the player’s actual value, determined by comparing the player to similar players who have reached free agency.
I would offer arb to Damon, Matsui & Pettitte. What’s the worst deal? One year with a comparable raise. The Yankees can afford to cough up five or six million extra for these players. Nady however is not worth it.
SJ44
I agree that it’s not likely, they have him under contract for a few more years at a very nice price, but the Indians trade out of necessity, and because they need money.
Lots of players who were “not on the market” have worn a different uni the next year.
Just sayin’
Most who want the Yankees to offer arbitration to everybody have no idea how arbitration works.
If the Yankees offer arbitration to Matsui, Pettitte and Damon, and they all accept, they will have over 50 million dollars tied up in those 3 players. Precisely what they DON’T want to do.
The idea is to allow for payroll flexibility. Arbitration limits that completely.
Which is why the Yankees won’t do it.
The idea is to allow for payroll flexibility. Arbitration limits that completely.
–
They’d also only be locked up in 1 year deals. It wouldn’t be the end of the world to get slightly more rigid now in payroll, retain key assets that helped in the world series and haven’t shown signs of being done offensively, and then have more flexibility next season.
you could also still make trades during the year because you wouldn’t have that money on the books for next year and you’d only be dealing with a prorated salary for a trade made during the year.
I wouldn’t offer to pettitte because i doubt he signs elsewhere anyways, or Matsui because theres no compensation for it, but I’d offer tO damon.
Damon @ 1 year isn’t the worst thing even if its at 15 million (no way he makes 18, he didn’t slug over .500 and its not like he plays great defense)
“Why not have one of those verbal agreements that they’ll offer it and he’ll turn it down…….”
Why would a player agree to this? Having been offered arbitration hurts their value on the open market. Fewer teams will talk to them since they would cost a draft pick. The Yankees helped Abreu last year by not offering him arbitration, but several players were hurt last year when their teams did offer arbitration.
SJ44
What is the arbitration amount based on?
I have no problem offering Damon arbitration. If he accepts you get a player you want in a one year deal, and he comes off the books in a year. You don’t need payroll flexibility when there are no players you really want to sign, right?
I wouldn’t offer Pettitte arbitration since he may sign anyway, and you can negotiate the terms. Matsui is not being offered arbitration since he is not an A or B FA.
I think the only semi-valid arbitration offer would be to Damon, but mainly because I think it less likely that he would accept it. I don’t see him taking a one year deal, even at somewhat inflated numbers. That said, it seems like Cashman would rather not take the chance of them accepting, so he will not offer arbitration.
I wonder if more clubs will decide to pass on offering arbitration because of the economy being tough. Players might consider pushing off their FA opportunity this year for the hopes that the economy might improve for the next year and they get a better contract. A number of players saw that last year with some notable exceptions, the offerings weren’t all that strong. (eg Abreu) Many clubs talking about reducing payroll. Yes, the picks are good, but if the market looks to be weak for getting signed there are some chances they take arbitration.
“SJ44
What is the arbitration amount based on?”
The two sides submit salary values and the arbitration panel (or arbitor, not sure how that works) chooses the value closest to the real market value of the player (which they determine).
For example, if the Yankees were to offer arbitration to Matsui (which they won’t), they Yanks could offer $5m and Matsui could ask for $16m. If they determine that his actual value is $10m, then the Yankees win and Matsui would make $5m, if I understand correctly.
Damon won’t accept a 1yr deal. I say Sign him for 2 years and DH him as much as you can. We can’t lose matsui and damon. Lets save the big bucks for next years free agents.
Another reason to make arbitration offers to Damon and perhaps Pettitte is that this is a poor FA market and so you are not going to sign a top player (you can argue if Holliday and Bay are really premiere FAs). Next year’s FA class is better, and all arbitration contracts will come off the books in time to hit a better market.
You overpay a little this year, but you gain in terms of flexibility. You fill holes and have them open up again just in time for a new crop of FA options.
Pat,
Basically, its what each side thinks the market should be.
One of the problems the Yankees face in arbitration is, if you offer Damon arbitration, Boras could put together a pretty compelling brief as to why he is a 15-18 million dollar guy.
The rules of arbitration dictate that each side submits an offer, you have a hearing, and the arbitrator picks one or the other. There is no middle ground.
I think the Yankees would have a hard time arguing that Damon deserves the 9-11 million they are looking to give him outside of arbitration.
Is almost a guaranteed loss for the Yankees, given the year Damon had.
Defense almost never plays a role in arbitration hearings. Its lip service at best. It all comes down to offensive production and the comps with other guys in that area.
“Most who want the Yankees to offer arbitration to everybody have no idea how arbitration works.”
SJ44,
Too many fans are fixated on the draft choices the Yankees will acquire if the player like Damon refuses arbitration.
If Damon is an A-type free agent, doesn’t that make him harder to be signed by other teams if he declines arbitration? Won’t other teams be more reluctant to part with a first round pick for an aging Damon?
A team like the Mets could easily sign Damon without relinquishing their draft pick since they were amongst the suckiest teams in the league last year.
So the question becomes, is paying Damon 15-18 million for one year worth a supplemental round pick?
“I agree that it’s not likely, they have him under contract for a few more years at a very nice price, but the Indians trade out of necessity, and because they need money.”
Sizmore is on the books at pretty short money relative to his talent. Little less than $22M over the next three years. Tribe doesn’t need to trade him.
As mentioned before, It makes no sense to offer Matsui arbitration since he warrants no compensation. Pettite is not going to sign anywhere else anyway, so I wouldn’t offer him arb either. Damon I would offer. He is more likely to decline than not, cause Boras will convince him there is a market for his services. They get 2 comp picks if he doesn’t accept. And if he does, they have to pay him 15 mill or so for 1 season. Not terrible.
“If Damon is an A-type free agent, doesn’t that make him harder to be signed by other teams if he declines arbitration? Won’t other teams be more reluctant to part with a first round pick for an aging Damon?”
It depends on which team signs him. If he signs with the Mets for example, their 1st round draft choice is protected due to their poor record. I think a total of about 13-15 teams have this type of protective status due to their poor 2009 record.
Although I am tempted to offer arbitration to Damon with the view he will not accept, I agree the Yankees will not likely take that risk. If they do decline it, that may be a signal they are going in a different direction.
“I think the Yankees would have a hard time arguing that Damon deserves the 9-11 million they are looking to give him outside of arbitration.”
You saying you think they’d like to have him back at an Abreu-like deal, or they’d like him back for only 2010? I know the answer is the latter, but do you think they’d go 2 years at at $9M-$10M each if that’s what the market merits?
“Although I am tempted to offer arbitration to Damon with the view he will not accept, I agree the Yankees will not likely take that risk. If they do decline it, that may be a signal they are going in a different direction.”
I have a hard time thinking Cashman will take such a gamble because if the free agent market is really so poor, Boras might have learned his lesson with what happened to Varitek last year and take the 15-18M for next season and then have Damon go back on the market after 2010.
SJ44 —
I disagree that Damon would get that big of a raise in arbitration. He made $ 13 M last year and I suspect that was pretty close to what he “earned”. What comparable $ 15-18 Million player(s) are there? I don’t know of any.
That said, The Yanks must offer at least $ 10.4 Million which is about the most they want to pay him anyway so arbitration is all risk no reward for the Yanks which is why it won’t happen.
No arbitration for the Yanks this year.
I would do it, if the Yankees can’t hire lawyers for an abritration settlement that can do the very basic: “Here is Johnny damon’s stat line for the season, here is Bobby Abreu’s stat line for the season, here is Bobby’s open market salary” then they are in trouble.
Or even “look, here is raul ibanez”
The yankees could beat boras in an arbitration case, I don’t care what comps he has. Damon still only OPS’d .860 and Ibanez got 12 million at the same age.
Yanks would be better off just offering Damon the Abreu contract.
Crawdaddy, its the bottom 15 that are protected picks.
In an ideal world, I think the Yankees would do an “Abreu-like” deal with Damon tomorrow.
The issue is, what is the market for his services? We don’t know that yet.
“Although I am tempted to offer arbitration to Damon with the view he will not accept”
I wonder about this. Boras is blowing a lot of smoke about 4 year deals, but in private he and Damon must know that 2 years and maybe an option is their best case scenario. Let’s say for the sake of argument that Damon accepts, get the $15M or so SJ suggested for ’10 and is an FA again next offseason, where he stands to get maybe $6M-$7M on the market if he has an average Damon season. That’s $20M plus over 2010-2011, which is as good or better than a two year deal he may get on the market this offseason IMO.
“Here is Johnny damon’s stat line for the season, here is Bobby Abreu’s stat line for the season, here is Bobby’s open market salary”
Can’t say that because Abreu was never really on the open market. He signed with the Halos when the Halos were the only team who could negotiate a deal with him.
I think what Abreu got is a fair deal for Damon, but the open market argument can’t be the basis of the deal.
SJ44, wouldn’t it seem like the market for Damon got set with the Angels signing Abreu?
With the lack of action going on, though I expect it to start picking up once arbitration offers are known, there seems to be a lot of talk of filling openings from within, or as seen last year a willingness to sign the bigger FAs and make the other players wait to get offers.
I don’t see Holliday or Bay being much of a guide for Damon given his age and declining defense ability.
SJ44
Thanks.
I thought the contracts that Abreu/Ibanez/etc. got last year might make an offer similiar to Johnny’s current 13 million fly.
Maybe I’m underestimating market rate.
I think what Abreu got is a fair deal for Damon, but the open market argument can’t be the basis of the deal.
–
Don’t be a nitpick, my point stands. If the yankees offer 10.4 million or whatever 40% less than 13 mil is, they can easily position it as being between Abreu and Ibanez’s contracts and argue Damon vs Abreu/Ibanez.
There is no one on the market recently of similiar age or quality to Damon that makes more than Damon does now.
and I now see that others thought the same as me.
The Scott Boras negotiating credo is based on one assumption:
The One Dumb Owner Syndrome.
Scott feels there is always “one dumb owner” who will overpay for a player.
It will be interesting to see if that comes up with Damon.
I know for a fact he really wants to stay in NY and the Yankees would love to keep him.
The Yankees won’t however overpay to keep him.
Will Damon accept a lesser deal to come back to NY?
IMO, he will have to or he will be playing somewhere else in 2010.
The problem is, Damon wouldn’t get a 40% cut in pay in an arbitration hearing.
I’ve done arbitration hearings in MLB. Guys don’t get 40% paycuts, even in a tough economy.
The year Damon had, regardless of what Bobby Abreu signed for, would not garner a paycut in arbitration.
If the Yankees submitted that figure, they would lose in record time.
SJ, what do you see happening with Matsui? Do the Yankees want him back for a year, or will he be elsewhere?
At the very least I disagree that he would make any more than 15 million in arbitration. And 1 year / 15 for damon is acceptable because its only 1 year.
And I also disagree that arb with Damon is all risk no reward, if he declines you can still get picks if he ends up with another team.
The maximum percentage that they can cut a contract is 20%, not 40%.
Erin,
Only way I see Matsui returning is if Damon goes elsewhere and the Yankees fill his spot with a less expensive alternative.
I think its going to be tough for Matsui to return because I don’t think they want to tie up that much money on a guy who can only DH.
That 20% is if they are offering arbitration.
So apparently tiger’s supposed misstress has come out and denied any relationship with Tiger woods.
If tiger wasn’t drunk and he wasn’t having an affair then there is no story here and I don’t blame him for not talking about it…
There are hardly any real reporters left anymore, the paparazzi and mainstream news have merged into one big group of vultures and its really sad…
Thanks SJ. I can understand the reasoning, I’ll just hate to see him go. He’s always been one of my favorites.
Blake,
You just believe anything that someone says in that position?
If there was no story, he wouldn’t keep putting off the cops and wouldn’t have hired a top local lawyer (his third lawyer) over a nothing thing.
Let’s face it, its a big thing because his story defies logic. That’s why he is lawyered and PR’ed up in the last few days.
He’s the only guy in the history of golf to bow out of a tournament because of a cut lip after clipping a tree with him car in the front yard.
GreenBeret7, arbitration offered for those going to FA can be offered anything. Both sides, the player and club, submit their figures to the arbitrator, one of the figures gets picked, no middle ground. The Yankees can offer a 40% cut, Damon could submit a 40% raise. Then it comes to the arbitor who decides which figure is more realistic.
They can submit any figure they want, this is different than those going to arbitration that are still under team control.
I would also offer Damon arbitration. The Yanks can overpay him for a year if the upside is possibly getting 2 draft picks. There is no way Damon would win an arb case asking for 18 mil. If the Yanks offer him arbitration and he accepts I expect he would get $13-15 mil. That’s a little overpaying but not much.
SJ, it doesn’t matter if I believe it or not. if both parties say there was no affair then why keep digging? To ruin people’s lives? That’s the only reason I can think of other than digging for their own personal gain.
If you are so certain that Damon will make 15-18 mill in arbitration, show us a good comp.
As jerkface said the two best comps are Bobby Abreu and Raul Ibanez. Abreu makes $10 mill in 2010 and Ibanez makes 11.5.
Damon made $13 mill last year and while I don’t think his salary would go down in an arbitration hearing, there’s no way it would go up by much, if any.
Scott Boras is good but even he will have to prove his point and show good comparisons to Damon.
SJ44, while it does appear that Tiger is hiding something, that doesn’t really reflect on him being able to play or not. He could have suffered a concussion, whiplash, strains, that would affect his playing ability.
It sounded as though he had some kind of head trama, by whatever means you care to believe. (Car, golf club, fists, random flying bird). He was reported to be in and out right afterward.
3-6 years service time (Wang, Bruney & Melky) = 20% max arbitration cut
Free agents (Nady, Matsui, Damon) = unlimited arbitration cut
I dont see how Nady could win in arbitration. What player’s salary, service time & performance would Boras use as a comp to argue his case when Nady did nothing in 2009?
When a FA goes to arbitration it comes down to which salary offer seems closest to reality that gets choosen.
If Damon were offered arbitration and he accepted it here is what happens:
1. Yankees and Damon can work out the salary and it is done.
2. Yankees and Damon can’t agree and it goes to arbitration.
3. Yankees submit their figure of say 10 Million. Damon submits his figure of 15 Million.
4. Arbitor will give the salary submitted by either the Yankees or Damon. There is no middle ground. If the value of Damon is thought to be 12 million by the arbitor, then the Yankees offer is the one that is set. If the arbitor determines that Damon’s value is 13 million, then the 15 million Damon offer is what is set.
Don’t confuse this arbitration with what happens to those who are under team control. It is a different process.
I am hoping Yanks can get Halladay by offering a boatload of talent minus Joba and Phil. Need to keep those 2. Who can match it when you’re talking Montero, AJax + others. Ok, if Jays want a MLB starter now, Mitre or Aceves, Ian kennedy
I believe there is more to the story but the “only guilty people with something to hide” lawyer up is nonsense.
I’m sure that there is more to the story with tiger but if he’s trying to keep details of a fight with his wife out of the papers then I can understand that especially when kids are involved.
Buster Olney is reporting that Roy Halladay has communicated to the Jays that he will not approve a trade after spring training starts.
No surprise here either that the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, and Phillies are listed as the most likely teams that will trade for Halladay.
Tom, I have the feeling that the Yankees don’t get Halladay without giving up either Joba or Phil. From some people I have talked to it almost seems that Montero is more untouchable right now than Joba or Phil.
I would offer Damon arbitration. He accepts, fine, 1 yr deal. He doesn’t, great, 2 draft picks.
There is no need to offer Matsui anything. Pettitte is assumed to return, but why not offer anyway, unless it’s so as not to hurt his feelings. Can someone explain to me the rational for not offering to Pettitte unless a contract is about to be signed anyway?
I wouldn’t give up joba and Hughes but I would give up Joba in a second for Halladay. toronto has no leverage to demand montero especially if Joba or hughes is included.
Cash should offer him arbitration. It’s risky but if he declines we get two picks and if he accepts, offer him 13M. If Boras asks for 18M vs. 13M, the yankees win without a doubt. All Boras could do then is ask 15M and if he wins, which is the worst possible scenario for the yankees, damon is overpaid for a year but we don’t risk a big decline for 2011 because as a free agent Damon would want a 2-year deal. So I say do it.
What I say is do you prefer 1-year at 13M or 15M, or 2-year at 20M. I prefer the first one personally. And if he declines then we get 2 picks.
History bears that the cover-up is worse than the “crime”.
If it is just a matter of Tiger being too sore to play, why not still attend and play the role of gracious host at your own tournament that benefits your own charity?
A “no comment” now is just as good as a “no comment” the next time someone puts a microphone in his face.
John
December 1st, 2009 at 10:59 am
What I say is do you prefer 1-year at 13M or 15M, or 2-year at 20M. I prefer the first one personally. And if he declines then we get 2 picks.
——————————————————
or an even better scenario – no one wants to sign a 36 yr old liability in the field for 3 years and 12 million per year AND give up their #1 pick so damon crawls back to the yankees at 8-9 million for 2 years
its an absolute no brainer to offer him arbitration – boras will not concede defeat and accept arbitration when he’s been chirping that he is looking for 3+ yeear and MORE money..
Pat, because his doctors advised him not to travel.
If arbitration is offered, no more than a 20% cut can be offered. That includes Damon. If Damon rejects arbitration and NYY resigns him, then, they can him for whatever…just like they did with Pettitte.
From CBA
D. Maximum Salary Reduction
(1) A Club may not tender, sign or renew a Player under reserve
to the Club pursuant to Article XX(A) of this Agreement and paragraph
10(a) of the Uniform Player’s Contract to a Uniform Player’s
Contract that provides a salary for Major League service that constitutes
a reduction in excess of 20% of his previous year’s salary or
in excess of 30% of his salary two years previous. A Club may not
tender, sign or renew a Player under reserve to the Club pursuant to
Article XX(A) of this Agreement and paragraph 10(a) of the Uniform
Player’s Contract to a Uniform Player’s Contract that provides
a salary for Minor League service that constitutes a reduction in
13
18485 • MLB: Coll. Barg. (TEXT) • Major League Baseball • PU 6640 + email •
le 2/7/07 11:34, aaxs le 2/15/07 11:56, aaxs le 3/1/07, crx le 3/2/07 11:24, aaxs le 3/16/07 3:19
aaxs le 3/21/07 10:15, aaxs le 4/24/07 5:16, AAXS LE 4/25/07 11:56, aaxs le 5/20/07 10:16 + 3:25
excess of 40% of his previous year’s salary. For the purposes of this
section, the “salary” of a Player with a salary stipulated in paragraph
2 of his Major League contract of less than the then applicable
Major League minimum salary shall be deemed to be the greater of
either (a) the total amount of his actual baseball salary earnings
from Major League Clubs (and from Minor League clubs if any) in
that season or (b) the amount stipulated in paragraph 2 of his Major
League contract for that season.
Damon isn’t getting arb. Look at Abreu after 2008. Exactly the same situation.
Abreu is making $9 million in 2010, not $10-11 million.
Something happened between Tiger and his wife that caused the accident, and likely involved someone running after him with a golf club. I’m sure after being Tiger’s wife for 5 years her swing is pretty pure, so he had a lot to be scared of. All of us married guys can guess what the late night argument involved. That being said, this is his personal life, and he should be left alone. This is not John Daly, who wears his life on his sleeve. Tiger has always kept his private life separate, and we should leave him alone, if we want to keep watching him play. Do you think the sponsors of the Chevron World Cup are happy today that he cancelled?
I think Roy Halliday really does want to pitch for the Yankees, and the Yankees really want him. The issue is what the Yankees have to give up. My money says it’s going to be less than one of Joba/Hughes/Montero when the dust settles.
Damon is not under reserve to the club. He is a total free agent.
NYY isn’t about to give up pitching plus Jackson and Montero for Halladay. It’s doubtful they’d take the entire 25 man Toronto roster.
i offer damon arbiration, he decline it and if he leaves get picks, if he accepts 1 and 15, which isn’t awful. yanks aren’t gotta bring matsui or tender wang so why not
I hope Tiger recovers both physically, emotionally and in terms of his public life from this incident, but I consider it a private matter.
Is there any reason why Pettitte would not be offered arbitration?
The Angels locked down Abreu for 2 years and 19 million.
Damon earned 13 million last year. If he accepted arbitration, the Yankees would be paying nearly as much for 1 year of Damon as the Angels are paying for Abreu.
Damon would probably land anywhere from 15-17 million for 1 year.
Pass.
“Is there any reason why Pettitte would not be offered arbitration?”
Other than the potential for losing control of the negotiating process (read: actually getting to a hearing), there probably isn’t one. It made sense last year because his ’08 salary was high enough where it could have been a problem for them. This year? Not so much. I figure they don’t offer and work something out for ’10. He’s not pitching anywhere else.
After last year, I concluded that the Yanks don’t really want to spend the extra dough on the extra draft picks they would get in the event of an arb decline.
Fans look at the arb offer to Damon as win-win. Yanks look at it as lose-lose, money-wise.
The suspense is killing me…..
I hope Elin wins this battle with teflon Tiger. Seems as if she was wronged.
LOL GreenBeret7, you just posted the clause stating that it only applies to controlled players.
Hi Erica! Is your internet exile over?
However, the clause GB7 posted does apply to Wang, correct?
This means that if they tender him, he can be offered $3 million in arb, instead of $5 million?
I would tender him if that is the price.
After last year, I concluded that the Yanks don’t really want to spend the extra dough on the extra draft picks they would get in the event of an arb decline.
Fans look at the arb offer to Damon as win-win. Yanks look at it as lose-lose, money-wise.
–
I don’t think any team in baseball is going to throw away a chance to draft top talent. They don’t HAVE to pay them. More picks in the top 300 picks means more striking chances at top talent.
And, here on the first of December, there is an extra incentive for the 2008 MVP. “They’ve asked me if I think I could play shortstop,” Pedroia says. “They’ve put it out there and I’ve told them I’m all for it. I can do it. I can’t wait for Tito [Terry Francona] to call me and ask, ‘Can you do it?’ I can do it. I really want to do it.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/bost.....id=4702781
I’d offer Damon arbitration.
The Yankees can afford to pay the one year deal even if it is higher than what they value him at. If he stays, he stays, and that ain’t a bad thing at all as he is still a great two hole hitter in that lineup.
If he decides he wants a multi-year contract, which he will as a client of Scott Boras, then let him walk and take the draft picks.
Its win-win for the Yankees.
how does Arbitration work?
Randy, how do you know that Tiger and Elin (if the were arguing) weren’t actually fighting about Elin having an affair?
It isn’t always the man who is guilty.
Just saying.
very true !
Can we cease the Tiger Woods convo on here? Go to ESPN Golf or PGA.com and talk about it there.
I know its a very cold stove right now but Tiger Woods has nothing to do with Yankee baseball.
It is not a no brainer to offer arbitration. It is quite risky to be in a position to pay Damon $ 15 M-plus for next season. I wouldn’t do it.
I would offer him $ 10 M for 2010 with a vesting option for $ 10 M for 2011 based on games and/or plate appearances. If he says no, I offer the same deal to Matsui.
Jerkface
December 1st, 2009 at 11:21 am
“After last year, I concluded that the Yanks don’t really want to spend the extra dough on the extra draft picks they would get in the event of an arb decline.
Fans look at the arb offer to Damon as win-win. Yanks look at it as lose-lose, money-wise.”
–
I don’t think any team in baseball is going to throw away a chance to draft top talent. They don’t HAVE to pay them. More picks in the top 300 picks means more striking chances at top talent.
_____________________________________________
If the Yanks do not arb offer Damon, as I expect, they will of course be throwing away a chance to draft top talent.
The reaction last year when the Yanks offered no one was shock. When shocking things happen, I look for a rationale. To me, the rationale is that the Yanks aren’t all that crazy about having the opportunity to spend more big bucks on high draft picks.
I wouldnt offer Damon anything. Eventually keeping these old folk around will come back to bite you. I think Damon is going to drop off drastically in the next year or two. Unless they can get a trade for an OF I see no reason why they shouldnt just go after Holliday for LF, and bring back matsui and pettitte on 1-year deals. I see nothing advantageous about damon clogging up the pipe when hes 37-38 years old
if it was confirmed that Joba/Jackson would get it done for Halladay who would do it?
I’m just curious.. I know I would but that’s just my opinion.
if it was just Joba/Jackson….absolutely do it.
I know its a very cold stove right now but Tiger Woods has nothing to do with Yankee baseball.
______________
But it does speak to a larger issue surrounding a sports figure and how much of their private lives should be an open book.
Far too often there are stories about Yankee players or baseball players that have nothing to do with their on field performance, and yet the gossip gets put on the front page or back page. Since when did the newspapers or media become this big brother type that decides morality of any in the public eye?
Whew! Man bashers!
Women just don’t get caught as often, and are usually forgiven.
Tiger Woods is about to be a Billionaire..i doubt he cares what anyone thinks…people wont stop watching him or wont stop buying his products..ask Kobe Byrant.
I can’t wait to see lil dusty back hand one deep in the hole and throw across his body to 1B.
timo, I can’t say that makes any sense whatsoever. The Yankees not offering arbitration was because they saw the economic climate very well. Abreu took a huge pay cut and wasn’t signed for a long time. It is very likely that he knew his pay was going down, by accepting arbitration he would get to stay at or around his salary rate for another year.
The Yankees aren’t shy about signing draft picks. They are also not afraid to let them pass on signing if it doesn’t work for them, and just go on the next year with the compensation pick.
I think the boston blog can be found elsewhere…
Erin
December 1st, 2009 at 11:20 am
Hi Erica! Is your internet exile over?
*******
No. I am not supposed to be on. My job is just so mindnumbingly boring, I can’t help it.
“Far too often there are stories about Yankee players or baseball players that have nothing to do with their on field performance, and yet the gossip gets put on the front page or back page. Since when did the newspapers or media become this big brother type that decides morality of any in the public eye?”
Nearly as often, we see reports of charitable works or other human interest stories involving baseball players. These too have nothing to do with their on field performance. That pendulum swings both ways.
reports are Dustin Pedroia is moving to shortstop…you think jeter has competition next year?
Erica – always OPPC
December 1st, 2009 at 11:47 am
No. I am not supposed to be on. My job is just so mindnumbingly boring, I can’t help it.
************************
LOL. I know what you mean.
The sox could always bring back nomar.. bet hed be cheap..
Let Johnny go,he is all about the money now anyway.Who wants a person on the team that feels he’s been cheated.This was his contract year to make a lasting impression,as a fan I APPRECIATED what he did,but Yankees need to get younger.
He needs the Yankees more they need him,if he wants to beef up his HOF qualifying stats.
Damon would probably land anywhere from 15-17 million for 1 year.
Pass.
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I’d much prefer to pay damon 15 mil for 1 year than Bay or Holliday 17 mil for 5 (or more) years – you then thank damon next year for his services and use his savings to go get someone better in the 2011 FA pool..
boras will not accept arbitration – his ego is too big for that …
Damon and Boras should consider themselves lucky if they get any more than $12M per year in a 2-year deal with a team option or buyout clause for a 3rd year.
If Boras is using Matt Holliday as his selling point, he’ll be stunned at what the economy has done to sports.
Owners and GM’s are playing close to the vest.
Has Pedroia ever played SS before?
A willingness to do it and an ability to do it are 2 different things.
Let the Hudson rumors begin!
if keebler elf is moving to SS that means the Roid Sox will probably go for orlando hudson or felipe lopez – which is a far better lineup than havig alex gonzalez or nick green in it..
its actually a very smart move – offensively anyway…
“Pedroia’s original sport and the source of his astounding hand-eye coordination”
VIA PETER GAMMONS ESPN BOSTON
Is this guy a stinksniffer or what?
“Some families go to Virgin Gorda to swim, sail and relax. “It was awesome,” Pedroia says, “but I couldn’t take time off from trying to put the Red Sox back where they belong.”
Where do the Red Sox belong? In an 86 year drought? Is that not the same arrogance that New Yorkers are portrayed as having?
pat-
Pedroia was an All America SS at Arizona St. Not the big leagues, but still.
sab
Why not thank Damon for his services now,and move on?
vey – who are you getting to replace him? gardner, melky and swish in the Outfield is playoff suicide…everyone else will cost alot of money and alot of years and/or decent minor leaguers (in the case of granderson)or draft picks…
offer him arb – if he declines you get 2 picks – if he accepts you pay him 15 mil for 1 year and if he declines and no one else gives him what he wants you then sign him for 2 years and 9 mil (like abreu) – thats a no brainer …
Joe and Evan on WFAN are discussing rumors that Pedroia is willing to move to SS? That’s interesting because they raise good points – it would be easier for the Sox to find a 2nd baseman instead of a SS
What are peoples’ thoughts on where the budget will be set for 2010?
Abreu set the bar for 35 and over OF’s Damon and Boras need a reality check.
Personally I hope he come crawling back,and the Yankees have moved on like they did Abreu.
Abre was smacked into reality big time.He wanted 17mm yearly for 3,and settled for 5mm!
Thanks Buddy
Arm strength was what I was thinking but I guess if he played it in college, he must have enough.
I’d much prefer to pay damon 15 mil for 1 year than Bay or Holliday 17 mil for 5 (or more) years – you then thank damon next year for his services and use his savings to go get someone better in the 2011 FA pool..
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I’m sorry but why? Matt Holliday is 30 years old, not 34……is good for 30 SBs a year and one of the best defensive LF’s out there…..oh and bats around .300 What exactly is better NEXT year than Holliday? Crawford who may or may not even be available next offseason? You know, Swisher isnt going to be around forever….they could still get crawford even with Holliday and plug Matt in RF if that were the case. Holliday is a better LF than NY has had in many years.
Guess that means they aren’t getting Hanley Ramirez, as was reported by several media outlets last week.
I love Red Sox rumors. They are going to acquire everybody, and give up nothing, because Theo is a “genius”.
Moving Pedroia to SS just shows how desperate they are.
He would have to alter his throwing motion, and throw more over the top, and we have no idea if he can do that.
If I were him, I’d stay at second base. Its one thing to be a team player. Its another thing to move to a tougher position in the middle of your career.
I would offer Damon Arbitration and I believe the Yankees will too. Damon wants a 2+ year deal and that is not a good thing for NYY. Offer the Arbitration & if he goes elsewhere, 2 Draft Picks! If he stays, the Yanks won’t be burdened for more than one year. Since he is a Free Agent, then the Pay Cut thing doesn’t apply. To me it is a no brainer.
I also would like to see them bring Matsui back as a part-time DH. Also, Hairston would be a good fit to come back too.
Pardon me on the 30 SB’s a year I got caught up in his 28 SB season….regardless he can go first to third, and nab some bags
sab
You can score on Damon in the OF,his arm isn’t good,he has bad calves,he’s 36,can’t work everyday.Cashman is smart he’ll field the position.Damon isn’t the only answer.If he feels cheated he’ll be a disgruntled employee,who needs that.Can you say Sheffield,hello!
Damon…
I agree and hope Cashman slaps Boras/Damon into reality!!
Nobody is shorter than Pedroia….he’d be perfect for shortstop…..
“Moving Pedroia to SS just shows how desperate they are.”
I think it’s spin designed to lower the price they would have to pay if/when they acquire a SS.
They aren’t signing Matt Holliday. They aren’t looking to commit over 100 million dollars to another position player. That doesn’t make any sense.
If you tie up all of your position players with huge contracts, it kills your flexibility.
If they add one big piece this off-season, it will be Roy Halladay. It won’t be Matt Holliday.
Damon vs Holliday Comparison…..
Damon signed a 4-year deal at 32 yrs old….
Holliday would likely command a 5-year deal at 30 yrs old…..
Holliday is a better defender, has a better arm, has decent speed (probably only slightly slower than Damon), more power, hits for better average……
Really, I dont understand the Holliday hate. I bet he bunts better than Damon too
How would it lower the price? They are the one’s shopping.
Players don’t have to go to Boston. There are other options.
They got blindsided when Alex Gonzalez signed with the Jays. They thought they had a deal with him.
Basically, it was “Teixeira II” in the way they misread the players intention.
They know they have big holes to fill and limited pieces to trade to fill those holes.
That’s why they are thinking about moving Pedroia to SS. They know Marco Scutaro isn’t going to sign an undermarket deal with the Red Sox just because Peter Gammons thinks he should.
Damon is a DH & part-time LF. He is a bat that Yanks need. If both Damon & Matsui leave, then two bats to take their place will be needed. They won’t be cheap to add most likely. A new bat will cost $$ and or Prospects.
Personally, I’d like to see Damon back for 1 more year. Arbitration seems like a fit.
Its not a question of hate. Its a question of not committing 100 million to another player.
Its not an apples to apples comparison.
Matt Holliday will get a 100 million dollar deal from someone. Johnny Damon will not.
Johnny Damon fits this team better than Matt Holliday, both on the field and (more importantly) financially.
Its not a video game. You can’t continue to commit this kind of money to every position player and still seek to upgrade your roster from year to year.
That’s why they will pass on Holliday. Not the least of which is, stat interpretation aside, he isn’t a 100 million dollar player.
Nobody even know what Holliday will get for sure. I personally doubt he’ll get 20 mill a year like he’s commanding. Probably 17-18 max.
Good stuff, Chad. Seems like a no-brainer to offer arb. to Johnny. Unfortunately for Damon, he’s hitting the market at the same time as Holliday and Bay. No one’s giving him 3 years guaranteed. In that case, I pass. I don’t want to get stuck with him for 1 yr. at anything above $10M. I don’t think he can even play the field an entire season. And I’m not going to pay him to platoon with Georgie at DH.
Did Tiger’s doctors really prohibit him from flying? I would think that’s prudent considering he was reportedly unconscious for 6 minutes less than a week ago.
Sherman? I’ll read his article if I have the time later, but for now I’ll just say that Jeter embodies a lot of what a good sportsman is. He’s universally respected not only throughout baseball, but throughout sports. If Sherman wants to bring in who’s more valuable, two things. First, it’s not an mvp award. And even if it was, Jeter was 3rd and Alex was….?
Sherman must’ve made a heck of a case to think that a guy should get Sportsman of the Year in the same year that he admits to using steroids.
Corey
For sure the Cardinals won’t offer Holliday 20mm per yr.They want Nady as a back up plan.
Corey, I’ve been saying that for weeks. Holliday fills a need they have and makes them five yrs younger at that spot. He makes a lot of sense to me..
Did they have a deal with Gonzalez? Was this before or after they declined his option?
I believe Peds moving to SS is a smart move. He is better than Lugo!! LOL! That opens up 2B where a lot more options exist including Iwamura formerly with TB. That would be a good move for them, better than Hudson IMO. Hudson will cost more $$.
I think the Yanks will trade some potential Rule 5 players for a LF. I think they sign or Trade for 1 SP as well.
SJ44
“How would it lower the price? They are the one’s shopping.
Players don’t have to go to Boston. There are other options.”
It’s just market economics. Market price is defined as a result of: A buyer that doesn’t have to buy to a seller that doesn’t have to sell.
If you say that you have a SS, it sends the message that you don’t have to buy.
OF course, as I suggested, they really don’t have a SS, and I think this is a transparent ruse.
If the Yanks do not arb offer Damon, as I expect, they will of course be throwing away a chance to draft top talent.
–
They will, but not for the reason you’re suggesting. The Yankees not offering arbitration would be purely because Cashman thinks the cost of the arbitration case if accepted would be much higher than the Yankees think the market would give them on a straight deal.
Cashman isn’t going, “I’m not going to offer Damon arbitration because we have TOO MANY DRAFT PICKS”
The draft doesn’t work like that. You want as many draft picks as possible, the more picks you have means the more players you block from your opponents even if you don’t sign them.
We got Hughes with a compensation pick.
Its about redemption M and not about where someone finishes in the MVP voting.
I like Derek Jeter as much as anybody. However, only those blinded by pinstripes could argue that he got this award more on a career achievement than on what he did this year.
I personally don’t have a problem with that because Derek Jeter has served the Yankees and MLB, very, very well throughout his career.
However, this team doesn’t win the World Series without Arod. That was Sherman’s point.
Alex coming back changed the direction of the season and he carried them in the post-season.
Sherman’s opinion was that a story of redemption is more compelling than a lifetime achievement award. Not really an off the wall opinion, since America loves redemption stories.
Pedroia at short would be a disaster, I’m all for it. His lack of range and arm strength would expose him greatly at that position.
Rich in NJ
When I heard that “midgee” volunteered to play SS.I thought about the so called “dream Papelbon had after trying to be a starting pitcher,that told him to be a closer instead,wink wink.”
As far as Gonzalez moving on,I don’t blame him.Hanely Ramirez should not give them a second thought,and come back.
damon enjoy 27…think 28
Yup, it’s the latest example of how the RS think they are smarter than everyone else and that no one can see through their BS.
JK
December 1st, 2009 at 11:19 am
LOL GreenBeret7, you just posted the clause stating that it only applies to controlled players.
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As I said and as the CBA states, if NYY offers Damon arbitration and Damon accepts it, the Yanks control him and the most nYY can cut him is 20%. If he turns arbitration down, obviously NYY doesn’t control him. Not that hard to understand.
Post of the day from a commenter on ESPN
“sedelberg94 (12/1/2009 at 12:50 PM) Where do the Red Sox belong, PEDey?
Up Peter Gammons’ rectal fissure?”
Jerkface
Pedroia also lacks height for SS,think about those high pop ups Jeter leaves the ground to field.Midgee has limited vertical leap.I hope they use this experiment.
SJ,
Thanks. So, the more appropriate award would’ve been an mvp in the playoffs. Or comeback player of the year.
It’s too soon imo to start lauding Alex. Yes, he was courageous for fighting through the rehab for his hip surgery. Alex is a natural, a baseball god. But he was so busy looking over his shoulders worried that people would find out about his secret that it impeded him at times, I feel.
So hip surgery, yes. Admitting steroids, no.
I would rather have given it to Tebow than Alex. He’s just as valuable to the Gators as Alex is to the Yankees. Maybe even more.
Jf, it’s not something that can be proven one way or the other and, for PR reasons, it’s not something Cashman would ever say publicly. Maybe one of these times it will be crystal clear that a Type A player wouldn’t accept arb and the Yanks still don’t offer and that will give more of a clue.
Some of you guys clearly dont get what the SI award is about. It’s about on the field performance AND off the field perfomance. It’s laughable to throw Arod’s name out there as someone who deserved the award.
the red sox seem desperate don’t they…
Couldn’t quarrel if they gave it to Tebow.
I am though glad a Yankee got it.
There is so much hysterical and nonsensical Yankee bashing from so many in the national media, its nice to have someone on the team as the “face” of the sports year.
The reason Alex deserves credit for admitting PED usage is that so many of his peers haven’t been as candid.
blake
December 1st, 2009 at 12:56 pm
the red sox seem desperate don’t they…
********************
they certainly do.
Well, given that Tebow goes to the P.I. to give circumcisions in the offseason it should go to him.
Anyway, had the steroid scandal not come out Alex would’ve won the SI Sportsman of the Year award. No question about it. But it did, and he didn’t.
pat, Pedroia also was a minor league shortstop. He played 132 games at short in the minots. Given his height, he’s the perfect SHORTstop.
CountryClub
It’s actually not. Admitting PED usage was a sign of character growth, and his determination to comeback so strongly from major hip surgery showed determination.
So before you decide who gets it and who doesn’t, try to adopt a perspective beyond your own.
m
“Did Tiger’s doctors really prohibit him from flying?”
No his PR rep did.
A photo of a banged up Tiger is not what they want out in the press now or in a retrospective 30 years from now.
ok so let me get this straight… for a team who can ‘out-prospect’ anyone, the red sox still don’t have a 3b, lf, ss, sp, and a catcher who can catch.
they have two pieces (bucholtz and kelley) who they think are future hall of famers and won’t trade. but somehow they’re going to trade for adrien gonzalez and hanley ramirez, two of the best players in the national league. and by the way, they’re cheap.
seems like they’re in a lot of trouble if they don’t spend like crazy this off season.
as we’ve said several times on this board, next year’s yankees will likely be better than the 2009 team.
even theo has to know that
SJ
Odds on Halliday becoming a Yankee before March? Who will be dealt if they go for him?
Which of course is hypocritical of the media.
They clamor for guys to confess. When someone does, and NOBODY has been more candid than Arod when it comes to these confessions, they hold it against him.
The whole thing is based on who members of the media like and who they dislike.
Because Alex was never really popular with the media, he gets hammered.
David Ortiz, who offered up as ridiculous a “reason” for his positive test as can be, is given the benefit of the doubt because the media likes him. To this day, his words have never been dissected. Everything Arod says is dissected.
At the end of the day, its all nonsense.
The guy ‘fessed up, changed his life (especially off the field), and led the Yankees to #27.
Joel Sherman is correct in this instance in that he should be given more credit than he has for doing what he did this year.
pedroia would be fine at SS. He’s got good hands and a strong enough arm to make the plays. He’s a better fit at 2b though so moving him to short instead of just getting a shortstop seems like ducktaping a probelm instead of fixing it.. Something the “supergenious redsox” shouldn’t have to do
SJ,
Agreed! Love it when the Yankees get their due.
pat,
Tiger needs a new PR crew. We should get in touch with them.
I hope Eladio Montaro the Cuban defector(who is invited to ST)
IS HUNGRY,and gives Melky and Gardner a run for their position.
Aroldis Chapman could very well be signed by the Yankees too.
-On boston.com/extra bases,(3 thread for now) blog Sox owner slams MLB REVENUE SHARING SYSTEM,and takes up for the Yankees being robbed for being successful.He says rather than MLB coming up with a better system.They figure the best way to deal with the Yankees,is take their money,wow!
He wants the books opened on the teams getting the Corporate(Welfare)subsidies to their fans.So they can see where the money is going. He reallyy slams the MLB for taxing success.
“the red sox seem desperate don’t they…”
Maybe a little. However, overpaying for a 34 year old one hit wonder seems even more desperate than moving Pedroia to SS. At his age, is there any reason to think he couldn’t play the position to the level of a David Eckstein, who at age 27-29 played the position at a little bit above average clip (he sunk quickly around the time he hit 30)? Certainly the available 2B options seem a little better than what’s available at SS. So long as the 2B isn’t Dan “The Butcher” Uggla, with whom their MI defense would be disasterous, it could probably work in the short term.
I read the essays and Alex wasn’t even nominated for the SI award.
The powers that be decided this was going to be his penance year or career or whatever they want it to be.
It is somewhat ironic that Derek and Alex broke perception this year. The guy who is credited with worrying about only one big hit instead of accolades got the accolades and the guy who is credited with worrying about only accolades and not the one big hit, got the one big hit.
Pedroia saying he could play short is the same thing as Coke being told to prepare to start last offseason.
Not just one big hit, pat.
Pittsburgh,
I’m of the belief if the Yankees really want Halladay, they will get him.
They have the chips to get him. No team, not even Peter Gammons’ beloved Boston Red Sox, have as much in their farm system as the Yankees to absorb such a deal. Halladay has already indicated he would accept a deal (and sign) with the Yankees, which is another plus.
As far as recon work, I think AJ Burnett, just as Arod did with Tex in the off-season, can give the Yankees all the info they need on Doc’s intentions and desires.
Who would they have to give up? Less than what’s reported and more than what extreme prospect huggers will want to give up.
I just don’t know yet how badly they want him. I think some in the organization want him badly and some are lukewarm on it.
We will probably learn more at the Winter Meetings.
Doc isn’t a phony with this stuff. If he says that if he isn’t dealt by the start of ST, he will not leave Toronto until after the season, he means it.
That may step up the timetable for a trade.
“They clamor for guys to confess. When someone does, and NOBODY has been more candid than Arod when it comes to these confessions, they hold it against him.”
Not sure CANDOR is the word that applies. Offering more information than anyone else doesn’t increase the plausibility quotient. His story was ludicrous. Not to the level Ortiz’s was, but ludicrous none the less.
Flounder
Why does anything he said beyond his admission matter to you?
As I’ve said before, if the Yankees get halladay and he doesn’t get hurt then they can go ahead and plan the parade for 2010.
That would give them a whole year to try to come up with some better music…
sj,
is the concern with doc the money? the length of the deal he would want?
I’m really just thrilled Jeter got it because I honestly believe he represents what’s right in the game. Did anyone see the video on CNNSI.com, the video of the photo shoot? Verducci (who covered the Yankees when Jeter first started out –actually, he covered both NY teams) really says it all as far as I’m concerned. Mark Feinsand, in his blog yesterday, wrote that he was told (I think at the ASG) that the players consider Jeter the most respected player in the game. It’s hard not to respect the kind of person he is…Michael Kay and Joel Sherman will find the most negative aspects in the most positive things. They are the dark clouds in silver linings…..
SJ, I mentioned this yesterday, but can AJ’s comments be construed as tampering? Folks had suggested that the reason he didn’t speak about Doc last year was because it would be tampering….so isn’t it odd that he’s coming out now?
Gammons and his inside scoops with Boston are getting funnier. Now he says Boston may not go after Halladay because they won’t give up Buchholz or Kelly. Not sure exactly what he thinks Boston has to offer, because it would take more than those two together in the first place. Now, they’re interested in Adam Everett and Miguel Tejada. Not sure if I can get all of the other acquisitions they’re getting and not have to offer anything in return. They’ll be in great shape with all of the normal “hometown” discounts. Selig will probably allow them to have a soecial clause inserted to let them have a 55 man roster and carry 40 on the ML club.
Betsy,
No, they can’t hit AJ with a tampering charge. That applies to front office execs and owners, not to players.
kd,
The money or contract terms aren’t an issue. The issue is, what do you give up for him?
That’s when you have to really know your system well and not overpay for a guy who is going to be a FA at the end of the year.
Personally, I don’t think they would trade Montero. I think he is the one guy that is truly off limits.
Everybody else is subject to negotiation for different reasons.
Can we hit 2 birds with one stone by trading for Doc? It seemed like Burnett thrived in being under Hallidays wings. So in a sense, we would probably get a better Burnett and one of the top 3 pitchers in the league. 2 for 1.
Pedroia’s too short to play short.
He might be 8 inches shorter than Jeter.
When I was a kid I always thought they were called shortstops because they were usually shorter players.
“I honestly believe he represents what’s right in the game”
I’m happy for Jeter but it’s the SI Sportsman of the Year Award not the SI Dudley Do-Right Award.
I’ve been against trading a bunch of top prospects for Doc all along, even though I would love to have him. I don’t know what Toronto will do – Anthopolous wants Montero, Joba/Hughes? Forget it. However, that said…. Let’s say the price does come down. I wonder if the Yankees are going to try and grab the bull by the horns here. They very possibly could (I will not say they definitely will because there are no guarantees) put a hammerlock on the division for the next couple of years. Will they risk trading some of their prized prospects? Cash has always said that one lesson he learned from Stick Michael was to always be willing to take a risk, to not let bad outcomes of previous deals/signings scare him away from taking chances. It’s a real gamble to trade top young talent for an aging (though still great) pitcher….and the Yankees were terrible for years because they sacrificed the future for the present too often. Will Cash and Hal shy away from Doc because of that? I also wonder if Hal will loosen up the purse strings thanks to the $$$ brought in by the playoff/WS run
“Why does anything he said beyond his admission matter to you?”
Doesn’t. The admission doesn’t even mean that much to me. Hardly a shocking revelation given the era he came up in. In fact, I felt bad for the guy given that he was singled out among countless players who were almost certainly guilty of the same thing and the way it was done. I just thought candor was a bad choice of words.
If the yanks could get halladay without giving up Hughes then Roy would make a great mentor for him as well. They have similar stuff..
Gammons seems like he’s a Boston beat writer more than an ESPN analyst.
GB7,
Man i hope they follow through and pick up Tejada to play short. He would make the Prince look alike and the guy they picked up from the braves a few years back look like gold glovers.
I am happy that our Captain won as well. He worked very hard on his defense during the off season and had a great year offensively as well. My understanding (which could be wrong) is that the SI award is for on and off the field accomplishments, so it partly is the dudley do right award.
blake
December 1st, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Gammons seems like he’s a Boston beat writer more than an ESPN analyst.
******************
I think most ESPN analysts sound like they’re Boston beat writers.
sj,
thanks.
they have a new gm and he needs to put his stamp on the organization. autsin jackson and phil hughes get it done?
SJ, Toronto papers have said that it’s they’re understanding that the Jays are looking for a young, ready shortstop, a couple of young pitchers (one that’s major league ready) and a bat. Not sure they’d take Swisher with half his salary paid or not. Not sure if NYY would swap Swisher for Wells and have Toronto pay maybe 25 mil. That’s a deal that I could understand. That puts Wells at 15 mil a season. Only problem is whether he’s healthy at spring training after wrist surgery.
Erin, this is true. I don’t dislike anybody on ESPN besides mayne kruk but I have switched over to the MLB network for my baseball news because its just a superior product. I love that channel.
Gammons is a tarheel so I can’t hate on him too much
how bout we hold out hope halladay doesnt get traded by spring training and we can pick him up in the offseason without losing joba/hughes and montero/jackson, etc…
Bronx Jeers,
If he were to go to short. I think they should change the name of the position to one of these choices.
Elf stop
Tall migit stop
Precious stop
Mini me stop
shorter stop
Froto stop
Devito stop
Did i miss any?
There is a reason Pedroia moved off SS – he isn’t that good there. Lack of range, weak arm, etc
He can’t play SS but I hope they put him there
I wouldn’t trade Joba, Hughes, Montero or Jackson for Halladay. I’ve said before that I would pass. However…
If I couldn’t do an extension, which I suspect is the case, I’d tell Toronto to pick any 2 pitchers and 2 position players from: Robertson, Coke, MacAllister, and Nova, plus Gardner, Russo, Pena, and Romine.
If I could do an extension, I’d do 1 position player from Melky, Jackson, or Gardner, plus 2 pitchers from Kennedy, Robertson, MacAllister, and Melancon.
How ’bout this on Jeter? He worked at improving what many others had pointed out as a deficit in his game, and was successful in doing so. He is not a lead-off hitter, but seemingly had no difficulty in moving into that spot to benefit the team (also probably in response to a deficit of his – hitting into DPs). So Jeter faced his deficits and improved either by work or by allowing the team to come first. Then he put up terrific numbers and broke a sacred Yankees record (Gehrig’s hits) and many credit him with being the MVP of the team this season (though in my mind any one of 4 Yankees fit that bill).
In addition, Jeter is a great person on and off the field.
Jeter was not a poor choice for this award and I’m surprised at the amount of negativity surrounding it.
And I don’t care if it was also somewhat of a lifetime achievement deal. Many a player has won an award based more on the total picture than a single year, especially later in their careers. Same goes for Oscar winners.
And I don’t even know if Alex would qualify for “comeback player of the year.” He had a good 2008. He had a good 2009. I believe that’s how they do the comparison; not he had hip surgery and missed two months or so, started slow and finished strong. Not to say that Alex didn’t amaze me personally with the year he had. Just don’t think that particular award will go to him, unless there is literally no one else to give it to.
This talk about Halladay reminds me so much of the Santana dealings.
I do think that the Jays will look to avoid being fleeced in the way that the Twinkies were in that whole mess. If the Red Sox and Yankees put deals out there that look good to fit their needs the Jays will pull the trigger before the offers dry up and they have to settle for less.
Waiting to get draft picks won’t help the team all that soon, so they are going to be more open to dealing him. He won’t allow a trade during the season.
Even though Gammons is spouting off about how the Sox want to keep Buchholz, I am not convinced. Every big trade they talk about his name is the first mentioned. He was brought up and then sent back down and kept down for a long time. In watching him, I think he has decent stuff, but the league seems to adjust to him fairly well. His having to pitch backwards won’t last long in the majors.
The various arms the Sox have were not very impressive this year when they were given the showcase treatment. They might improve, but they aren’t there yet. That probably makes it a harder sell in trades, meaning they will have to give up more in a deal.
I don’t think the Jays can afford to blow their chance at getting a more likely success via a trade for Halladay and just go with draft picks.
I also think that Halladay has a limited number of teams he would be willing to go to. This was talked of before, and from all that is said by his agent or him, he sounds like he let his intentions be known to the Jays.
The winter meetings may turn out to be very interesting.
There is a reason Pedroia moved off SS – he isn’t that good there. Lack of range, weak arm, etc
=============
I beg to differ Patrick. A guy that gets his uniform as dirty as Dustin has to be good anywhere.
Doreen, Jeter still hit into as many DPs from the leadoff spot as always, 18. It’s still an issue. The only way he’ll reduce it is to hit more balls in the air.
GB7,
Dont you want your leadoff hitter to keep the ball on the ground or is that just for speedy leadoff hitters?
“A guy that gets his uniform as dirty as Dustin has to be good anywhere.”
No question that Pedroia can fling himself around on the infield dirt with the best of them, whether he can make the throw to 1st from the hole at SS when he gets up appears to be the unknown right now.
SJ44 -
Wow, I missed that about Jeter! I guess he just didn’t get to do it in the first inning like 2008.
I still think Jeter was a good choice, DP-propensity notwitstanding.
Oops, that was directed at GB7 — getting my letters and numbers mixed up today, I guess.
Matt Holliday costs money alone.
He’s the one big piece this offseason.
I would prefer to keep Joba/Hughes rather than trade one away AND commit all that money to Roy Halladay. I’d rather have Joba/Hughes + Holliday than Roy Halladay. I think Matt Holliday is a safer bet to remain productive over the next 5 years for the money than Halladay.
When Mo and Andy (if he pitches for the Yanks in 2010) come off the books, the Yankees will have money to hit the market big again in 2011. Then Posada comes off the books.
The Yankees tied up LF for 13 million over 4 years. Why wouldn’t they be willing to tie up a similar amount of money annually to a younger more athletic more productive player?
Matt Holliday won’t earn much more annually over 13 million per season.
And for the extra production, he’s worth it.
and when the ladys start asking they only have to start asking one question chad chad what did chad do wrong chad
rhys ian ames-meiling is 24