The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Thumbs up, thumbs down

Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Dec 03, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

With a very respectful nod of the head to Siskel & Ebert (& Roeper), I thought this might be a good time to run through some of the baseball news, views and rumors with a thumbs up/thumbs down rating system (these are only my opinions, of course, unless you disagree, in which case they’re Chad’s):

Thumbs down to Roy Halladay’s agent saying Halladay won’t approve a trade once spring training starts. Nice try, pal – you think Roy will say ‘no’ to the Yankees (or Red Sox or Phillies) if the Jays are 20 under again in July?

Thumbs up to Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos saying he’s got no problem dealing within the division. At least someone is being honest.

Thumbs up to those who think Curtis Granderson would be a good fit with the Yankees. Great player and an even better guy. (And yeah, I know about the splits. I’d still take the chance)

Thumbs down to anyone who wants the Yankees to go after a “big-name” reliever like Mike Gonzalez or Rafael Soriano. First, signing these guys would now cost draft picks since they were offered arbitration; and second, if the Yankees have learned anything over the past few years, it’s that big-money non-closers just aren’t worth it. I’d rather see more of Dave Robertson in 2010 than end up with another Kyle Farnsworth.

Thumbs up to all of you who commented and emailed about the Tiger Woods post/saga/disaster. You guys (and girls) helped me come up with this column, which was about the loss of privacy for all of us in this day and age. So thanks.

Thumbs down to a best-of-seven Division Series (at least until someone tells me how the World Series won’t end near Christmas).

• Thumbs up to an international draft – an idea that seems long overdue.

• Thumbs down to trading Phil Hughes for Halladay (though thumbs up to trading Joba Chamberlain or Austin Jackson for him).

• Thumbs up to reclamation project gambles (and, for what it’s worth, Justin Duchscherer > Rich Harden > Ben Sheets in my value book).

• Thumbs down to sticking with Chien-Ming Wang (sadly, for book sales).

• Thumbs up to mailbags – how has it been this long without one? Let’s get it going. Feel free to e-mail questions and we’ll try to do our first offseason one shortly.

 
 

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218 Responses to “Thumbs up, thumbs down”

  1. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    Thumbs down to an international draft. Thumbs up to letting teams trade picks.

  2. Betsy - high on pie December 3rd, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    I actually give a thumbs up to Doc’s agent…..I posted an article by Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun (or is it Star? Sorry, I forget) a couple of days ago in which he clarified the misconceptions that are floating about regarding Doc/last year’s trade deadlinem, etc……..Doc was (and probably still is) annoyed at the Jays and felt disrespected. I don’t think he liked the uncertainty of wondering where he was going to pitch next. I suspect he’s a man of his word. I guess we’ll have to wait and see what happens…….

    I also disagree strongly about a thumbs down to best of 7 Division series. IMO, it’s an idea whose time has come; a longer series is more likely to end up with the better team winning, which is as it should be.

  3. crawdaddy December 3rd, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    “Thumbs up to an international draft – an idea that seems long overdue.”

    I don’t like it due to so many issues regarding age and identification unless provisions are in place so a team can recoup another draft choice back if a problem occurs later on.

  4. Blake December 3rd, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    Thumbs down to your Justin Duchscherer > Rich Harden > Ben Sheets.

    I think its the other way around. Although I agree with the rest of the post.

  5. crawdaddy December 3rd, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    “Thumbs down to an international draft. Thumbs up to letting teams trade picks.”

    There you go and no compensation for signing free agents which might be a tradeoff for an international draft.

  6. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    And thumbs up the Halladay’s agent. They’re the idiots who gave him the NTC, and now they’re finding out what they gave him.

  7. That's Baseball, Suzyn December 3rd, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    Thumbs down to thinking Sheets makes a good reclamation project and Wang doesn’t. Way to reward a company man.

  8. Joe from Long Island December 3rd, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    1. Phil – agreed.

    2. A seven game DS would work. It lets the better team have a better chance, and there are more than enough off-days to fit in the extra two games, and finish the WS before early November.

    3. I think a mistake people are making is looking at the Roy Halladay sweepstakes in a vacuum. I think there’s another potential deal they’re looking at, namely Curtis Granderson. Some of the same players may be of interest to both the Jays and the Tigers. So, Cash has to be very slick here.

    4. One of the calculations about Halladay will be how much more money will be brought in by making the deal. How many more wins, playoff games, over who they would trade to the Jays, and how much more $$$ is thus generated. I think that there are consultant firms who specialize in this sort of number crunching.

  9. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    But that’s baseball, Suzyn.

  10. Nick D December 3rd, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    Agree, Sam.

    If he wants to be a Yankee that badly and he gets a chance to mid-season, he ain’t turning that down. Why would he? We can give him the most money and he wants to be here. Just so he can go to FA and receive inferior offers from other teams, most of which will probably be teams who don’t train in Florida or a non-contender like the Mets?

  11. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    Thumbs down to posting on an old thread after a new one has arrived.

    Thumbs up to re-posting:

    Pat M, I’m glad you agree with me about OSU +10. Both teams blew out the Golden Bears, but OSU did it in Berkeley…I think the Rogers brothers make it a very competitive affair. I have teased OSU with the Jets/Bills over and some Saturday action. Sad (as a Cal fan) that the Cal-UW game is less significant than I once hoped it would be… Where is our pal dennis-costanza???

  12. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    All drafts are anti-free market.

  13. Sam Borden December 3rd, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    I had a feeling thumbs up/thumbs down would produce varied responses and opinions — just like the movies, right?

    Feel free to add your own.

  14. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    Rich, agreed.

  15. Sevrx December 3rd, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    Michael Wiener said yesterday that he has no problem with an International Draft and neither do the players. They don’t want a slotting system, however.

  16. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    Thumbs down to spending any money on the bullpen.

  17. Joe from Long Island December 3rd, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    And one more point – I think Roy Halladay has the potential to really control this process, if he wants it.

    If AJ, CC and others are really lobbying Cash and the Steinbrenners to acquire Halladay, what they should really be doing is lobbying Doc himself. If Doc makes it clear it’s the Yankees or no one, then that ties the Jays’ hands – either take what Cash offers or get those two wonderful draft picks – and hope they don’t stink in a couple of years.

  18. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    The Yankees don’t want an international draft.

  19. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    Joe,

    they undoubtedly are talking to Halladay and lobbying because they know what he wants.

  20. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    Thumbs up to Sandra Bulluck… Hey Sandra, check your blind side, Oscar is blitzing!

  21. crawdaddy December 3rd, 2009 at 6:17 pm

    “The Yankees don’t want an international draft.”

    They don’t want free agent compensation either.

  22. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 6:17 pm

    ” One of the calculations about Halladay will be how much more money will be brought in by making the deal. How many more wins, playoff games, over who they would trade to the Jays, and how much more $$$ is thus generated. I think that there are consultant firms who specialize in this sort of number crunching.”
    __

    The only brake on the Yankees’ revenues is the state of the economy.

    As for generating more revenue than the players traded to Toronto, you are overlooking two factors: the time frame and the respective cost of the players.

    Over five years, Halladay brings in more $. But over 10 years, the young players traded may well be greater revenue generators. OTOH, young players are far cheaper, so they don’t have to generate more revenue to be more cost effective.

  23. FL Dave December 3rd, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    AJ needs to get involved in this negotiation, from both parties…. Doc/Toronto and the Yankees. He is a player, so he can’t be charged with tampering.

    He needs to convince Cash to do it (and Cash needs to convince Hal to OK the contract extension) and convince Doc to force his way here.

    The pieces of the puzzle are all there, it is just a matter of putting it together.

  24. Erin December 3rd, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    Nick in SF
    December 3rd, 2009 at 6:15 pm
    Thumbs up to Sandra Bulluck… Hey Sandra, check your blind side, Oscar is blitzing!

    ***************
    I’ve heard from several people that that movie is worth seeing-is it really that good? I’m still undecided.

  25. Bronx 77 December 3rd, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    From the last thread – I agree, a competition is the way to go. Bring out the best in them and sign a guy like Sheets for the other spot.

    Of course, this is all moot if we get Doc. But I don’t think having both in the rotation is a good idea.

  26. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    Here’s a bit of interesting news about Bryce Harper, from MLB0Rumors-R-Us. I wonder how many teams will tank the season to get the first crack at signing him. Perhaps Selig will pull strings so he can fall to the Red Sox.

    I figured that last sentence should get the 2 or 3 conspiracy theorists heated up.

    ————————————————————

    Some afternoon links…

    •Baseball America’s Conor Glassey reports that Bryce Harper passed his GED exam, which will allow him to attend junior college next year and be eligible for the 2010 draft. Harper is the odds on favorite to go first overall.

  27. Betsy - high on pie December 3rd, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    Joe, I don’t think the Yankee players should be calling up Doc to lobby him to refuse all trades to teams other than the Yankees. Even if it’s not technically tampering, it’s still sort of unseemly – the man is under contract after all.

  28. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    Betsy,

    that’s what players do. You want Doc to feel unwanted?

  29. The Damon-ator December 3rd, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    Thumbs down to Jermain Dye – not a fit for the Yankees.

  30. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    Erin: based on the commercials, I thought it would be pretty crappy and had no plans to see it. Then I found myself in Ocean City, MD, the Monday before Thanksgiving with my cousin and he wanted to see it, so I caved and said yes.

    I was very happily surprised. Nothing outstanding, but it’s a good movie and more substantive than the commercials make it out to be.

    In fact, my cousin went and saw it again with his wife just 6 days later.

  31. Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench) December 3rd, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    Thumbs up to
    Pancake Man and Chad

  32. The Damon-ator December 3rd, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    re: play off format – THUMBS UP – to having 2 Wild Card winners who would meet in a 1 game play-in game for the right to advance to the playoffs. Let’s give the Yankees/Red Sox division race some meaning again.

  33. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    Thumbs down on the thumbs up/thumbs down idea.

  34. Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench) December 3rd, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    I heard the Blind Side was pretty good too.
    Bullock will be nominated but I doubt she will win.

  35. RyanM December 3rd, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    Thumbs up to an international draft and a slotting system. Although it has absolutely benefited the Yankees, it still hurts baseball as a whole IMO.

  36. Scott December 3rd, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    Sheets isin’t giving Texas a discount.. he is going to be coveted this winter. He’ll go to whichever team gives him the most $$$

    The question is if he wants a 1 yr deal to re-establish his value and go out on the market next year to score a long term deal (if he stays healthy)

    or does he look for a longish deal, like 3 years this season?

  37. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    RyanM

    The Yankees are the financial engine that propels MLB. Why mess with success?

  38. Erin December 3rd, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    Thanks Nick. I do really like Sandra Bullock, so maybe I will check it out. I had no idea the Oscar buzz for her was so strong.

  39. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    It’s an honor just to be nominated Uncle Grumpy.

  40. Sam Borden December 3rd, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    Uncle: Am I pancake man? My father-in-law would have been proud.

    GreenBeret: Sorry pal.

  41. Betsy - high on pie December 3rd, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    Not at all, Phil, lol – send Doc flowers and candy if need be, lol. Seriously, do players do this a lot to players under contract to other teams? Seems kind of weird…..

  42. Erin December 3rd, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench)
    December 3rd, 2009 at 6:28 pm
    I heard the Blind Side was pretty good too.
    Bullock will be nominated but I doubt she will win.

    ***************
    Who’s your prediction for Best Actress?

  43. raymagnetic December 3rd, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    Bryce Harper waived his HS clause so he could play for the Yankees.

    Says he will only accept a draft by the Yankees otherwise he’s staying in JUCO.

  44. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    Yeah….baseball has really been hurt by the Yankees. That’s why every NL team wants NYY playing in their city during Inter-league play. You can tell how much they’re hurt by having their 3 biggest gates when NYY comes to town.

  45. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    Thumbs down to overrating low OBP hitters.

  46. Joe from Long Island December 3rd, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    Betsy – I understand what you’re saying. However, I think the only legal issue here is that the Yankees cannot do the lobbying. However, nothing keeps players from this sort of thing, I think. Whether it’s unseemly, well, that depends on the individual relationships, no? It would be odd for someone Doc doesn’t personally know, but, if it’s a good friend (AJ?) then it’s between friends.

  47. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    Betsy,

    the do it all the time. It’s probably more frequent with texting.

  48. raymagnetic December 3rd, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    Just read that Harper is a catcher and a pitcher.

    No way Jorge should catch him :x

  49. m December 3rd, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    Thumbs up to SJ44 with his opinion on what Andy deserves. A guaranteed contract.

    As for the naysayers. The past is the past and the future is the future.

    If you think the Yankees don’t really want Andy back, you’re off your rocker.

    Is he guaranteed to repeat last season? No. But he’ll steady the rotation that’s top heavy. Bottomless, actually. He’ll give you 200 innings. And he’s a great influence on all the pitchers, even CC & AJ.

    Who freaking cares how long he takes? The way the Yankees treated him last season with a take it or leave it bare bones offer who cares.

    He could retire and it wouldn’t matter to me. He always gave all he had and went 3-0 in the 2009 postseason. He doesn’t owe the Yankees anything.

    The fact remains the same as it did last off-season. The Yankees need Andy more than they need him. He didn’t come back because he needed that $5M guaranteed. He came back because he wanted to pitch in the new stadium and be part of what looked like a very good team.

  50. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    Sandra Bullock has never been better or looked hotter!

    (disclaimer: The Blind Side might be the first Sandra Bullock movie I’ve seen)

  51. ZMAN 223 December 3rd, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    Damon will sign with the Giants, Cubs, or White Sox for 3 yrs.

    Not a bad situation for him… all 3 of those teams have a chance to make the playoffs next year. Not exactly the Washington Nationals. Plus Chicago and San Francisco are great cities.

    Might not be the Yankees, but he’ll go to a good spot and get his money.

  52. m December 3rd, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    The Yankees need Andy more than he needs them.

  53. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    On Yankees Hot Stove:

    Jack Curry thinks $6-7m per year for Damon. Sounds about right to me.

  54. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    “The Yankees need Andy more than he needs them.”

    They’d sign Lackey if they had to.

  55. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    Baseball is at it’s healiest when the Yankees have strong teams. Why? Because it gets fans and media interested and that gives them somebody to hate. Hate draws more fans than love. Everybody loves the Cubs, but, other than in Chicago and St. Louis, where do they draw?

  56. Brian December 3rd, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    We have no idea what to expect from Hughes or Joba
    Andy is 38 and is no guarentee to repeat last year
    AJ is very inconsistent.

    Ca$hmoney is not going into 09 with that many question marks. Again, don’t let him fool you. He knows what we need. Him and Girardi stressed pitching last week….

  57. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    Baseball is at it’s ***healthiest*** when the Yankees

  58. m December 3rd, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    Then why aren’t they pursuing Lackey? Doesn’t have anything to do with Andy.

  59. TY Clip December 3rd, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    Jack Curry is right… Jorge is a fine #5 hitter to protect A-Rod and we can use the DH to rotate older players rather than clogging it up with a bat.

  60. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    “Then why aren’t they pursuing Lackey? Doesn’t have anything to do with Andy.”

    Seriously? Because: 1) They are loyal to Pettitte; and 2) Because Pettitte likely only wants a one year deal.

  61. m December 3rd, 2009 at 6:43 pm

    Spare part? Clogger? This is not how Hideki should be described. Where are those 30 homeruns going to come from? Instead of melky being your weakest hitter in the lineup, you’ll have Cervelli, Gardner, a Pena type in there. Every day. Every single game.

  62. EA December 3rd, 2009 at 6:43 pm

    Lackey is 31, wants a big contract, and is rumored to be a jerk.

    Of course, if our other option is Hughes AND Joba in the rotation together, then Lackey is a much better option than that.

    I’d rather go after Doc though

  63. Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench) December 3rd, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    Nick in SF
    December 3rd, 2009 at 6:32 pm
    It’s an honor just to be nominated Uncle Grumpy.

    This made me crack up – thanks.

    Sam – you’re doing a bang up-job

    Erin: Gabriel something from “Precious”

  64. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    The thing that concerns me most about Lackey is his elbow.

  65. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    There’s no reason for Damon to sign with San Francisco. That park will kill his only real value…his bat. It makes no sense for either Damon or SF.

  66. Gator December 3rd, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    I agree with the guys on hot stove.

    Kernan said Cashman doesn’t want to deal with the possibility of Doc going to Boston and having to see that rotation in October, thinking about “what could have been” if we had gotten him.

    Curry says that look no further than the Teixeria deal and how it changed the fortunes of the two teams… it changed the landscape of the AL East this year and already resulted in a title for us.

  67. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    Thing that concerns me about Lackey is his declining velo and innings and FIP.

  68. Pat M. December 3rd, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    Betsy….As you know I’ll be getting ragged on for this, however it’s the same thing that a few here have been promoting for the past 3 years….Phillip Hughes is going to be an All Star MLB Pitcher….At least this off season he doesn’t a bus ticket waitng for him at the will call window at The Port of Authority Bus Terminal…..He was pond waste last winter in the eyes of most here……He’s the real deal, only the freak injuries have get him back….Cashman will not trade him as he is the face of Cashman’s re-building model…..Even though Cash wasn’t running the entire show when Young Master Hughes was drafted…He represents the Cashman Era

  69. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    “Instead of melky being your weakest hitter in the lineup, you’ll have Cervelli, Gardner, a Pena type in there.”

    Like when Molina was in the lineup but not quite as bad. Agreed.

  70. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    Phil,

    That could be because of his elbow problems.

  71. m December 3rd, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    What? I said that they need Andy more than he needs them. And you responded that they’d go after Lackey. And I said why aren’t they going for him now? (insinuating that Andy’s only here for one season at a time, so why in response to Andy not coming back would they commit for Lackey for 4-5 years) and then you respond back with the very reasons why the Yankees need Andy more than he needs them!

  72. m December 3rd, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    BTW, one doesn’t have anything to do with the other because there’s room for both Lackey and Andy. Or Doc and Andy. So many ways to go.

  73. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    NYY will resign either Damon or Matsui. They need to get those 65 Homers and 175 RBI from somewhere and Miranda isn’t going to provide them.

  74. Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench) December 3rd, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    Gabriel Sidibe stars in Precious.

    BTW I am backing off my “The Road” will win best picture prediction but not because it is too dark. Buzz is lacking

  75. Joe from Long Island December 3rd, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    You know, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if one of the reasons Cash passed on Santana two years ago, was the injury issue. Santana had less velocity off his FB that last half year in Minnesota, and throwing fewer sliders. I think that was more of a factor than was let out. Seeing what’s happened in Flushing kind of bears that out.

    Doc doesn’t have that issue, even though he’s older now than Santana was then.

    Just thinking.

  76. Erin December 3rd, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench)
    December 3rd, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    Erin: Gabriel something from “Precious”

    *************
    Probably a wise pick. Have you seen the movie? My dad went to see it and he said it was good but extremely depressing.

  77. Gator December 3rd, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    Guys like Miranda, A-Jax, Mike Cameron, Brad Hawpe, etc. are not options to replace All-Star top/middle of the order talents like Damon and Matsui. Stop the madness.

    If we lose one or both of them, it is going to hurt badly. No one to hit #2, no one to protect A-Rod. 54 HRs, almost 200 RBIs, all that OBP. Not going to be easy at all.

  78. Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench) December 3rd, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    Erin
    December 3rd, 2009 at 6:49 pm
    Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench)
    December 3rd, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    Erin: Gabriel something from “Precious”

    *************
    Probably a wise pick. Have you seen the movie? My dad went to see it and he said it was good but extremely depressing.

    I haven’t seen any of the contenders.
    The Academy loves depressing.

    Have you seen any movies lately? Anyone?

  79. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    Damon and Matsui combined for 52 homers.

  80. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    Huh?

    Your p.o.v. about who needs each other more is subjective.

    My point about Lackey is that he provides an alternative if Pettitte decides not to come back (and they don’t get Halladay).

    They would commit to Lackey if the foregoing transpired because he would provide one of the best alternatives to replace Pettitte while possibly even improving the rotation.

    Is 4 years for Lackey optimal? Not in my opinion because of their other payroll commitments.

    But it puts them in status quo ante or better if Pettitte leaves.

    That’s why I disagree with your original point.

  81. Joe from Long Island December 3rd, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    I think they go after Damon. He can still run the bases, and play the field. This provides a lot more flexibility than Matsui, and I love Matsui. And then, Granderson to replace Damon in the OF.

    I guess I’m not the only one watching Hot Stove.

  82. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    “BTW, one doesn’t have anything to do with the other because there’s room for both Lackey and Andy. Or Doc and Andy. So many ways to go.”

    That’s a separate issue.

  83. m December 3rd, 2009 at 6:55 pm

    If they want Lackey, they’ll go for Lackey. It’s a major commitment that involves way more than what Andy Pettitte decides to do.

  84. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    The issue isn’t whether or not they will go after Damon. It’s what is the ceiling on how much they would be willing to pay him.

  85. Erin December 3rd, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench)
    December 3rd, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    Have you seen any movies lately? Anyone?

    *****************
    I went last weekend to see Fantastic Mr. Fox. I wasn’t sure if I’d like it but decided to give it a shot because I’m a big Wes Anderson fan. I was pleasantly surprised. Nothing spectacular, but I think the adults in the theater liked it a lot more than the kids did.

  86. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    “If they want Lackey, they’ll go for Lackey. It’s a major commitment that involves way more than what Andy Pettitte decides to do.”

    Your original point was that the Yankees need Pettitte more than he needs them.

    Going after Lackey if Pettitte decides not to return negates that assertion, imo.

    That’s the tie in to Lackey.

  87. Richard December 3rd, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    Guys, why is this so hard to understand?

    Cashman wants to get younger and more flexible. Matsui does nothing but hit. Can’t run and can’t field. He provides us with no flexibility.

    We have to stop accumulating DHs on this team and start getting younger and faster. Get some athletes on the team, shed some payroll and get younger. We don’t need guys who need to sit for 9 days in interleague and get their knees drained 3 times a week.

    The DH spot will go to Miranda, with a cheap righty platoon guy like a Matt Murton. However, it will be used primarily to rest our older players.

    Matsui is not coming back here.

  88. F7 TD December 3rd, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    Why would anyone want Lackey for 5 years? He is declining already, injury prone, and reportedly not a good teammate.

    Sheets is a MUCH better investment.

  89. down with prospect huggers December 3rd, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    raymagnetic
    December 3rd, 2009 at 6:33 pm
    Bryce Harper waived his HS clause so he could play for the Yankees.

    Says he will only accept a draft by the Yankees otherwise he’s staying in JUCO.
    ———————————————————–
    kid is smart beyond his years….

  90. m December 3rd, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    Well, can we agree that one of the reasons the Yankees need Andy is that they don’t have to commit $100M to get a pitcher for 2010?

  91. Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench) December 3rd, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    Erin
    I Like wes Anderson’s stuff too – Even Darjeeling Ltd.
    just watch Mr Fox Trailer
    looks good

  92. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    F7 TD

    If Pettitte doesn’t return, do you really think that the Yankees would rely on Sheets to be their #3 starter?

    There may be other options than Lackey, but the Yankees would need a #3 that they can rely on if Pettitte should retire. That isn’t Sheets.

  93. Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench) December 3rd, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    Too bad “up” will win best animated pic.

  94. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 7:06 pm

    “Well, can we agree that one of the reasons the Yankees need Andy is that they don’t have to commit $100M to get a pitcher for 2010?”

    Unless it’s Halladay…

  95. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    Thumbs Down on Mark DeRosa.

  96. down with prospect huggers December 3rd, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    Guys, why is this so hard to understand?

    Cashman wants to get younger and more flexible. Matsui does nothing but hit. Can’t run and can’t field. He provides us with no flexibility.
    ——————————————————-

    and if it weren’t for matsui in game 6 (and damon in game 4)the younger and more flexible BS makes the yankees a 2009 world series loser…

  97. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    Uncle Ellsworth: btw, new Magnetic Fields record due in January, tickets on sale now (and going fast) for NY shows, go to their website for details.

    http://www.houseoftomorrow.com

  98. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    Yeah, I don’t want DeRosa either.

  99. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 3rd, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    THUMBS DOWN to this nonsense discussion about a golfer on a baseball blog.

  100. Erin December 3rd, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench)
    December 3rd, 2009 at 7:04 pm
    Erin
    I Like wes Anderson’s stuff too – Even Darjeeling Ltd.
    just watch Mr Fox Trailer
    looks good

    *********
    I liked Darjeeling too. Rushmore is one of my favorite movies. I could watch it over and over again.

    I agree on Up-that’s got best animated pic all wrapped up.

  101. Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench) December 3rd, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    Thanks Nick

  102. Pat M. December 3rd, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    Matsui is needed to hit behind Alex….I don’t care about his limitations in the OF …He’s a DH, and until the formula is changed with sucess, he’s the perfect DH….Especially in the 5 hole…..What part of this is so hard to understand…..Until there is an alternative to protect Alex, Matsui is very valuable to the club……Miranda was mentioned, someone is high

  103. DaSaint007 December 3rd, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    Losing 50+ HR, and more importantly, 170 RBI (an average of 1+ run per game) is pretty significant, and hard to replace. One way to alleviate that, however, is if you have a starting rotation and bullpen that can lower your team ERA by at least that corresponding run.

    People, the Yankees haven’t gone after anyone as yet. That all starts next week at the earliest, and if there is one thing I’m sure of is that we’ll be surprised at some of Cashman’s moves. Who here predicted a trade for Swisher? Or Molina’s signing? Or Nady and Marte?

  104. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 7:18 pm

    With regard to Matsui, if, for example, you could get him for $5m for one year, you’d have to do it.

    So like Damon, it’s about price.

  105. Erin December 3rd, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    Pat M.
    December 3rd, 2009 at 7:16 pm
    Mastui is very valuable to the club……Miranda was mentioned, someone is high

    ***************
    Miranda has been mentioned as DH a few times, which is baffling to me. Hmmmm…Matsui or Miranda, who would I rather have as DH? Tough choice. ;)

  106. Mike December 3rd, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    Posada protecting A-Rod is a scary proposition.

    So is a Mike Cameron-Melky-Swisher OF.

  107. Abdababdaserser December 3rd, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    It seems like the Mariners are competing to have as many rumors about players they are interested in as the Red Sox are this year.

    Figgins, Harden, Lackey, Bay. Probably a few others I didn’t catch.

    I wonder if they are going to make some kind of push thinking that the Angels will be weaker if they lose some of the players who are FAs.

  108. MikeBoston December 3rd, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    Miranda as the every day DH in ’10, that’s got to be a joke right?

  109. NYY626 December 3rd, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    Erin – Go see The Blind Side. I highly doubt you will be disappointed.

    Also, Andy is coming back cause I made my parents buy me a Pettitte jersey for Christmas :grin:

  110. Banjo December 3rd, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    Miranda replacing Matsui?

    Cameron or A-Jack replacing Damon?

    Hughes and Joba in the rotation together?

    Yikes. Let’s hope this isin’t the case.

  111. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 3rd, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    Abdababdaserser,

    good point…

    Seattle is a solid franchise, just had some awful contracts that have finally expired (Beltre…remember Sexson?)

    I’d really like to see someone give Anaheim a true run for their money in the AL West.

    You can build around Felix and guys like Gutierrez, Ichiro, and Lopez.

  112. DaSaint007 December 3rd, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    Matsui is more likely than Damon to accept a 1 year contract, and if so, I’d gladly welcome him back as DH.

    Goodbye Johnny.

  113. Abdababdaserser December 3rd, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    The Swisher trade worked out very well. The thing to recall though was when it happened Swisher was going to be the firstbaseman.

    Cashman doesn’t like to telegraph his interests too much, though there was no question on CC.

    The “Hot Stove” is starting to get a little warmer though. I think next week will see a number of things starting to come in line. Some of the FAs will be made offers and the market will really take shape.

  114. ZA App December 3rd, 2009 at 7:27 pm

    Kernan – “I think Kennedy will be on the Toronto Blue Jays roster next year.”

  115. Erin December 3rd, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    NYY626
    December 3rd, 2009 at 7:22 pm
    Erin – Go see The Blind Side. I highly doubt you will be disappointed.

    ****************
    I think I will. I’ve heard nothing but good things.

    BTW, love making the parents buy you a Pettitte jersey. :)

  116. Ham Fighters December 3rd, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    polanco was a nice p/u for the phillies. a rematch next year could be coming, the phillies are not going away.

  117. Betsy - high on pie December 3rd, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    Phil, you know what? It’s not quite the same thing because Andy was a FA, but I remember that AJ texted and called Andy all the time, bugging him to re-sign with the Yankees, lol. Andy thought it was funny because he didn’t know AJ at all……I would just love to see AJ pie Doc after a complete game, lol

  118. Abdababdaserser December 3rd, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    I think the Angels have been more reluctant to spend money recently also. Not saying they are going on the cheap, but they let K-Rod go and Teixeira go with just lip service. Vlad, Figgins, Lackey could all be gone from them as well, though I think they will try to keep one of those three.

    The Mariners have turned things around this past season, they have some decent pitching to go with Felix, if they add Lackey or Harden they have a tough rotation to beat. They do need a bit of offense, but they weren’t that far behind the Angels, the Rangers are another team to watch, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see their pitching fall off a bit from being pushed harder this past season.

    I have a feeling the Mariners are going to be in good position to take the West in 2010.

  119. DaSaint007 December 3rd, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    Abdb…

    Yes, Swisher was to be the starting first baseman, but he was also capable of playing LF and RF, and even some (ugh!) center. Cashman started this drive for positional flexibility way back with Betemit, who could play all infield positions, and had some pop in his bat. Now we all know he stunk up the joint, but you get the idea.

    Phil started this Miranda at DH thing, and who knows, he may be right, but it just doesn’t sound right. You’re going to put a kid raw from th minors in the lineup as your regular DH over an experienced ML hitter. We’ll see.

  120. Stan December 3rd, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    Thumbs up for Brian Cashman fovever being in a stealth mode.
    It’s caused many GM’s to 2nd guess themselves and make moves they may otherwise not have made.
    He keeps his thoughts with the family. The Steinbrenner family, that is.

  121. Betsy - high on pie December 3rd, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    M, IMO, the Yankees did nothing wrong with Andy last year. Who cares? I already explained why……….

  122. burrman December 3rd, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    i agree with almost all points.

    here is how you make the division series 7 games. you make the regular season 154 games, i doubt the fans would have a problem with this, as they play so many games anyway. of course, the owners would never let this happen because they will lose money. maybe if they work it out that that theres a bit more revenue sharing for the playoffs? not sure how exactly the revenue sharing works in baseball besides the luxury tax. anyway just my 2 cents

  123. Ham Fighters December 3rd, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    i’m pretty much against a halladay trade, depending on the price of course, but i’m really, really against including hughes in any trade, period. I think what phil learned about getting major league hitters out in his bp role is really gong to pay dividends when he returns to starting next season. he’s shown the stuff, he’s had a good amount of exposure at the mlb level and he’s overcome some negativity, i think he’s really ready to bust out next season.

    i’m thinking 15 wins and a return of ‘the franchise’ tag for phil next year!

  124. champ809 December 3rd, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    for the uninformed on this blog…..Juan Miranda is a LEGIT power hitter. Legit as in REAL LH power in all parks…

    Damon is not a REAL power bat! He hits homers in Yankee Stadium and wraps a couple around the pesky pole!

    in 278 abs away from Yankee stadium he hit 7 homers…

    Miranda on the other hand is a true power hitting LH bat and has earned his oppurtunity to do it on the ML level

  125. Pat M. December 3rd, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    Za App…You may be very well right…..The question is, who else would be apart of that equation……I think going after Granderson starts the domino effect for the Yanks….A ballplayer of his talents just getting ready to blossom in a Yankee uni, in that lineup, and sticking it @ The Stadium is an amazing concept…..

  126. Betsy - high on pie December 3rd, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    What did they say on Hot Stove? I forgot it was even on…..

    A GIANT thumbs down to rotating DH….ugh. That means when a regular is a DH, we’ve got a mediocre or worse replacement in the field. No thank you.

  127. burrman December 3rd, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    also… i think polanco was a very good signing by the phillies. great defender, rarely strikes out, solid vet to have in the lineup.

  128. Betsy - high on pie December 3rd, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    Pat M, I have your back re: Phil, so if you get ragged on, you’re not alone, lol. I just don’t want to see him in the pen again – it’s time for him to show what he can do as a starter (though I don’t expect him to be lights out at this point – certainly, to at least start showing steady progress. If he’s in the pen, it will set him back again. Also, I agree – Cash won’t trade him.

  129. Abdababdaserser December 3rd, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    I think with how things went down, the Swisher pickup was a very good move. The trouble was he was meant to be a platoon player with Nady once Teixeira was snagged, though he did work hard to improve his game. I think his fielding and throwing showed some improvement through the season.

    I think he can hold down RF, even if he isn’t the best out there, he is serviceable enough.

    I agree, DaSaint007, that Miranda as DH seems unlikely. He only had a few ABs in the majors, but wasn’t jaw dropping. Its tough to say how well he would adjust to the major league pitching, and that seems a big chance to take.

  130. champ809 December 3rd, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    i think it’s funny all you guys dissing Miranda simply because you know nothing about him and have only seen him maybe 2 times in your lives.

    this time next year you’ll all be screaming how we have to sign him because we need his bat in the 5/6 hole!

  131. Doreen December 3rd, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    Pat M-

    Stop getting my hopes up on Granderson!! :lol:

  132. Patrick the Prospect Hugger December 3rd, 2009 at 7:43 pm

    Why thumbs down to Wang? He will probably cost like 4 mil if offered arb and doctors are saying he will be ready to pitch in June. Half a year of CMW for 4 mill? That’s pretty good.

    Everyone is worried about him coming back from the injury but in the scope of shoulder injuries, this one was minor.

  133. Betsy - high on pie December 3rd, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    Thumbs up to all the posters here and to Sam/Josh and Chad!

  134. Ham Fighters December 3rd, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    calm down, champ, everybody has high hopes for miranda, but you dont go into a season defending your championship and hand over the dh spot to an unproven youngster. remember mattingly and the mick both struggled and got sent down.

  135. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    Miranda’s 27.

  136. Pat M. December 3rd, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    Betsy, Ham Fighter summed it up perfectly regarding Phil Hughes…….As for Miranda, you’re comfortable in turning a key offensive position to a unproven hitter with waht 40 ab’s if that……This lineup has issues, and certainly Miranda is not a solution at this point in time……Maybe you rotate him in every 5th game or so, however I cannot see the Yanks being comfortable withhim as an alternative to Matsui……

  137. Rose December 3rd, 2009 at 7:47 pm

    I think Hughes will have a big year as a starter next year. My only concern is will he have an innings limit. They messed up Joba with an innings limit, let’s hope they don’t mess up Hughes.

  138. Rockks December 3rd, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    Ugh… now my hopes are up about landing Doc.

    I really shouldn’t let this happen.

  139. Abdababdaserser December 3rd, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    champ, Miranda has proven his hitting in the Minor Leagues. He hasn’t done anything much in the Majors. That is a world of difference.

    If the Yankees bring him up he wouldn’t be the full time DH. Shelly had hit some big dingers when he first came up, then not so much. That isn’t saying Miranda can’t do the job, but he hasn’t even been tested in that role in the majors.

    Tons of players look great in the minors only to come up and look terrible.

  140. Jumbotron December 3rd, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    Well, if we get Doc, then it is a moot point… one of the starters (Hughes/Joba) WILL be in the pen. The question is what happens if we don’t get Doc.

    I’m with everyone here— I don’t think Cashman is going to go to camp with both of them in the rotation.

  141. champ809 December 3rd, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    I agree, DaSaint007, that Miranda as DH seems unlikely. He only had a few ABs in the majors, but wasn’t jaw dropping. Its tough to say how well he would adjust to the major league pitching, and that seems a big chance to take
    ******************************************************
    abdababderserer

    here’s mr Miranda’s career line

    19abs/7hits/1 double/1homer(460ft in Tampa)/4rbis

    .368avg / .435obp / .579 slg % / 1.014ops / 1 walkoff hit

    extrapolate that into 500abs and it’s

    500abs/182hits/25 2bs/25 hrs/100rbis

    so actually in his very limited oppurtunities and in a very small sample that looks like Matsui like production for $7mil less….
    The point is he’s proven himself at every level and he’s been an all star ballplayer since 15yrs old…..I think he can def hit on the ML level.

  142. Lance December 3rd, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    Kernan was pretty animated that we’re going to land Halladay.

    Curry was a little more even-keeled, but still acknowledged that it is a legit possibility.

    Both agreed, though…. Cashman is not going to want to see him land with Boston and see that rotation in October and wonder “what could have been”. He saw first hand how Teixeira changed the balance of power and resulted in a title already, and Doc’s impact would be even more profound.

  143. down with prospect huggers December 3rd, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    here is how you make the division series 7 games. you make the regular season 154 games,
    ——————————————————–

    i’m all for it as long as those games are either taken away from playing the al east (especially the redsox) 18 times a year or from interleague games in NL parks…

  144. Bronx Jeers December 3rd, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    A big thumbs up to my rather long winded post on privacy getting caught in the filter. :grin:

    Pure drivel.

    Thumbs down to the Nats who are going to get the opportunity to draft Bryce Harper a year after drafting Stephen Strasburg.

  145. Abdababdaserser December 3rd, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    Rose, Joba messed up with Joba, not how they handled his innings limits.

    They tried different ways dependent on how he reacted and none of them worked. That was on Joba and how he pitched, not how the Yankees worked to keep his innings under control.

    Joba started off poorly long before his innings limits came into play. What excuse do you give for him then? He pitched great after the ASB, but reverted to shaky again.

    Hughes will have innings limits, but if he is pitching as a 5 it won’t be as tough to limit his innings.

  146. Betsy - high on pie December 3rd, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    The below is from Buster Olney’s blog on ESPN – I’m not an insider, but River Ave Blues posted the relevant section on their site:

    *****But here are a couple of things that are different since the Santana talks: Hughes and Chamberlain. They are two years older, two years further along, with (generally) two more years of major league service time. Both players will be eligible for salary arbitration for the first time after next season. Hughes, 23, is coming off a year in which he demonstrated that he could be a shut-down reliever during the regular season — he struck out 96 in 86 innings, with a 3.04 ERA — before he struggled in October. Chamberlain, 24, had flashes of excellence as a starter, but generally was erratic, before finishing his year with some strong outings in the postseason.

    If I were sitting in Brian Cashman’s chair, I would identify the smartest pitching people I have on my staff, whether it be manager Joe Girardi or pitching coach Dave Eiland or others, and I would ask them two questions: What are Hughes and Chamberlain now, and what do you think they will be going into the future?

    In other words, do you think in three years they will be middle relievers? Do you think they will be dominant closers? Do you think they will settle in as back-of-the-rotation starters, or do you think they will be frontline AL East starters?

    And if the smart people that Cashman trusts believe that Hughes and/or Chamberlain will be anything other than (A) dominant closers, or (B) No. 2-type AL East starters, well, then I’d call Toronto immediately and be ready to talk about trading one or perhaps even both of the young pitchers****

    Everything makes sense except the part about trading both pitchers……..that’s not happening

  147. Betsy - high on pie December 3rd, 2009 at 7:56 pm

    Lance, thanks for the recap

  148. Rose December 3rd, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    “Well, if we get Doc, then it is a moot point… one of the starters (Hughes/Joba) WILL be in the pen.”

    If Yanks get Doc, one of Joba/Hughes will be a Blue Jay.

  149. Gary December 3rd, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    Cashman has yet to trade his top prospects since taking full control. I’ll believe it when I see it.

  150. Yanks 82 December 3rd, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    I’m not giving up Hughes or Joba for a player with a NTC who wants to be a Yankee

  151. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    I doubt either Hughes or Joba will be a Blue Jay.

  152. Abdababdaserser December 3rd, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    champ, what was Shelly Duncan’s record when he first came up to the majors?

    Talk about small sample size.

    That doesn’t mean he can’t hit major league pitching, but it doesn’t mean he can either. Depending on him to be the DH for the Royals is one thing, to be the DH for the defending champions is another.

  153. Abdababdaserser December 3rd, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    Gary, Tabata was one of his top prospects. Or doesn’t that count because it doesn’t fit your argument?

  154. RS December 3rd, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    Getting younger and more athletic is always great, but Yankee Stadium is built for sluggers. You still have to play to your park’s strengths, because that’s part of what gives you such a great homefield advantage.

  155. Joe from Long Island December 3rd, 2009 at 8:04 pm

    Betsy – Olney’s right, that’s exactly what Cash has to or has already done. They need to have reached a conclusion as to what to expect from each of those guys, plus and minus, as well as Ian Kennedy. Based on that, they then decide which one is tradeable, and not just for Doc. I still think that, given the paucity of ML ready OFs in the system, that someone – Granderson? – is on the radar.

    And I wouldn’t be surprised if they made a deal at the upcoming Winter Meetings.

  156. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    If you trade Hughes or Joba, it should be for someone in their mid- to late-20s, not for a pitcher who will be 33 next year.

  157. Rose December 3rd, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    Abdababdaserser

    I can’t argue your point about Joba. A lot of his poor pitching is on him. But the Yanks didn’t handle his innings limit well. Skipping starts, regular rest, 3/4 innings than out of the game. Stuff like that.

    My opinion is Hughes will be a better starting pitcher than Joba. To me Joba belongs in the pen although I know the Yanks and many fans don’t agree with me.

  158. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 8:13 pm

    The Yankees had no choice but to limit Joba’s innings while stretching him out to be a starter, and they did so in consultation with Dr. Andrews.

    Don’t let the Francesa bs skew your thinking.

  159. Neil December 3rd, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    The first move Cashman makes at the winter meetings next week will set the tone for what’s to follow.
    It will pay to closely scrutinize each move to see how it affects the next. Cashman is a man with a plan.

  160. Joba in the pen December 3rd, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    If the Yankees trade for Doc, either Joba or Hughes will be in the trade. Do you really believe Toronto will not get one of them? They will want a young pitcher and I don’t mean Kennedy. They are just not going to give you Doc for nothing. They want good talent back.

  161. Ira ScHIOWItz December 3rd, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    I would never trade either Hughes or Joba Young power pitching is hard to come by and 3 starters in there 30s is not so great in my humble opinion better to try to work with the young pitchers and sign Lackey if another pitcher is needed

  162. Pat M. December 3rd, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    Betsy, I’ve been reading your opinion for at least 2 plus seasons, and I must say that piece was not only one of your best postings, it was one of the more visionary posts that we’ve read here in quite some time……..Long range and in the end, it’ll be Phillip Hughes who has the outstanding career……Joba needs to revisit his commitment and dedication to his craft…….And to his waistline as well

  163. Matt December 3rd, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    The topic of ” Joba rules ” is rarely if ever heard since late in the regular season when it was established that a 3-man rotation would be used for the postseason.

  164. TY Clip December 3rd, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    Kennedy, Romine, McAllister, and Mike Dunn/Rumolo Sanchez

    Who is topping that package?

  165. Mike December 3rd, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    Fortunately, the Yankees value Joba more than the fans do.

    He’s not trading him for a 32 yr old Halladay + extension.

  166. Abdababdaserser December 3rd, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    Rose the real problem with how things went with Joba and how they were looking to limit in innings was because Joba didn’t perform.

    They had a plan, to skip starts with the idea that Joba looked dominating after he had that ASB rest. That didn’t work. They went with plan B, shortening his outings and he ended up pitching 30 or more pitches in an inning.

    The innings limit is also tied to a pitch limit. In every way they tried, Joba didn’t follow through. There were other pitchers in the league that had innings limits. Some where with shortened games, some just shut off when the limit approached. The Yankees really didn’t want to do that because they were in the chase for the post season.

    Some of the plans fell apart due to Wang’s problems as well.

    Plans always need to be adjusted to the situation at hand. I really can’t find fault with how the Yankees worked to find the solution to Joba. (Including having his warm up longer in the beginning of the season due to his first inning struggles).

    Joba also didn’t pitch to his strengths. He didn’t listen to those around him, thinking he knew best. He nibbled (same problem that Hughes and Kennedy had when they were in the rotation) because of being afraid of contact, and it got him behind in the counts.

    I have no idea where Joba will end up. He has the talent to be a starter, and he showed that a few times. He showed he could pitch out of the pen. I think that is the problem the Yankees have with him. They can’t really figure out his true role because he hasn’t been consistent or shown the expected growth. As a reliever his value is down.

  167. Joe from Long Island December 3rd, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    And what if the Jays are not offered what they deem “good talent” for Doc? What will they do? Keep Doc for 2010 and lose him, assuming he refuses arbitration, for two totally unknown draft picks? Hope Doc recants and approves a deal mid-season? Because, that’s their option. Either trade him for the best deal on the table – now or mid-season, which Doc has said he will turn down with his NTC – regardless of whether they love it, or lose him for two amateur level players.

    Again, the Jays are not the ones driving the bus. They don’t have total control over the situation.

  168. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2009 at 8:23 pm

    Let’s go Jets and Bills!!!

    For some reason they are playing at the Rogers Centre [sic] in Toronto.

    Recruiting expedition for Doc??? I hope not, I doubt he’s there.

  169. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 8:23 pm

    Joba in the Pen,

    Not only is your username wrong, but your assumption about what the Jays will get for a player with an NTC and possible contract extension expectations is probably wrong.

  170. DMM December 3rd, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    I am drooling over the possibility of Doc… and AJ pieing him like 10 times a year– once after every complete game he pitched.

    Make it happen, Cash. Just don’t give up Montero. I have visions of AJ pieing Doc 10 times, I don’t want those visions to go to waste.

  171. Matcohen December 3rd, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    “Thumbs up to an international draft – an idea that seems long overdue.”

    I think that we should have a draft for journalists. For, let’s say, 10 years the drafting entity has exclusive rights to negotiate with that journalist. That would be fair right? If you get drafted by the Anchorage paper, tough luck. And it’s not like this would hurt your salary or anything.

    Drafts are fundamentally un-American. Human beings should be free to work for whomever they want.

  172. Abdababdaserser December 3rd, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    Mike, you don’t know what the Yankees value any more than anyone else here does.

    Joba has value, either as a member of the team or as a piece in a trade to bring in what Cashman thinks will better the team.

    The Yankee scouting, FO and coaches are the best judges of where they feel Joba is, and how much he can contribute to the team. The same with Halladay.

    I personally am fine with keeping both Joba and Hughes or trading one of them in a package to get Halladay. In either case I think the Yankees have the smarts to do the best move.

  173. Ham Fighters December 3rd, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    i agree, the yankees got way too much crap about the way they handled joba. they tried it one way then the other to try to make joba more comfortable with it, but in the end, they got him to the # of innings they needed him to get. joba needs to look in the mirror to find what went wrong last year and make the fix and stop looking at the way he was handled by the yankees. the yankees gave him the ball during the stretch run in a championship year and he had problems with the way they did it? thats just bull.

    i hate to pit one guy against the other, but phil had his rotation spot taken and he went to girardi and said, just let me stay up here, i’ll do anything you want me to. he may not have been happy about it, but he took the ball out of the bp, where he’d never been asked to pitch before, kept his mouth shut and contributed big time to winning the championship. joba could take a lesson from phil there.

    in any case, lets hope its ‘lesson learned’ and he comes to ST in-shape and ready to do whatever is asked of him next year.

  174. 2 + 2 December 3rd, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    I like Romine… I’d like to hang on to him. Maybe give up Cervelli or Chris Stewart instead?

  175. blake December 3rd, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    Joba in the pen might well be right. Nobody knows whats going to happen with him. He might turn into a good starter, he might turn into a middle of the rotation starter, he might end up in the bullpen because he fizzles as a starter. This is why I just can’t understand refusing to trade him for the best pitcher in baseball, a guy who throws complete games and will make every pitcher in the rotation better.

    Halladay + CC = a very good chance at multiple titles and thats worth trading a “might be” pitcher. I apoligize to all those who have unwavering faith in Joba, but I just don’t….

  176. Betsy - high on pie December 3rd, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    Pat, I wish I could take credit for it – that was Buster’s opinion, lol. It’s a terrific piece, isn’t it? Again – except for the idea that the Yanks would trade both – not happening.

  177. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 8:31 pm

    “Joba in the pen might well be right. Nobody knows whats going to happen with him”

    Yet the misguidedly named poster misguidedly thinks he does.

  178. Jack Frost December 3rd, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    I love how people say

    “Yanks arne’t trading Joba!”
    “Yanks are not trading Hughes!”
    “Cash would never trade Hughes because he is his vision!”
    “Cash likes Joba more than Hughes!”

    When in reality, nobody has a clue what the FO thinks of any player.

    And besides, why trade either for a player with a NTC who wants to be a Yankee?

  179. murphydog December 3rd, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    Two thumbs waaaay up to the lohud yankee blog; I’ve been drunk on Yankee blogfodder since the Big Guy left for Beantown.

    Good luck to Pete Abe, and long live the lohud yankee blog’s Tinker to Evers to Chance: Sam, Josh and Chad.

  180. 66 stripes December 3rd, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    Imagine how happy Burnett would be if we acquire Doc… it would be like Christmas twice for him when he gets the text. He’d probably show up at the press conference too.

  181. Sevrx December 3rd, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    Speaking of Pete Abe… Imagine how riled up he’ll be if the Yanks get Halladay? I can only imagine the Anti-Yankee pieces he will write to appease his Globe audience….

  182. Pat M. December 3rd, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    Nick is there a way to get the game ???? On computor ???

  183. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    “When in reality, nobody has a clue what the FO thinks of any player.”

    If you have been following what Cash has said for the last ten or so years, I think you would have more than a clue about his mindset.

  184. Abdababdaserser December 3rd, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    Joe from LI, I agree that Toronto will be in a tough place if they don’t get an offer they deem good enough. They are in a no win situation, just as the Twins were with Johan.

    Thing is, the fans generally get over with any move made and turn their anger toward the player who leaves given some time.

    I do think that Halladay has limited the teams he is going to allow a trade to. He has said enough things through his actions (turning down some teams with offers) and through his agent.

    I know there is a report that he felt disrespected by the Jays for how things went last season. I think he will stick to his word, and not approve a trade during the season. He was annoyed from what happened last season with the trade talk about him and won’t go through it again. The Jays know this as well.

  185. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    Pat M, it’s on the NFL network, which I get on DirecTV.

    Not a thriller so far, I will opt for the Civil War in 20 minutes.

  186. Joba in the pen December 3rd, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    Phil

    Yankees/Boston will not trade for Doc without getting an extension. They will not give up good players to get Doc for 1 year. And if they hadn’t signed a .500 pitcher (AJ) for big money, they would get Doc, no doubt about it.

  187. Jeremy December 3rd, 2009 at 8:42 pm

    I’m sorry but some of you guys need to calm down about Halladay because Cashman will not trade for him. The Yankees won the World Series so their is no need for a trade which will ruin the farm, and then as the team gets older the organization falls into a rut because they have no prospects to replace the veterans with a bloated payroll. Thank god some of you aren’t the GM becuase you would ruin this organization like Omar Minaya of the Mets.

    You should only get Halladay if he is a free agent.

  188. Betsy - high on pie December 3rd, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    Maybe we’ll get to see this next year:

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_C7v3.....aj-pie.jpg

  189. Ham Fighters December 3rd, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    guys sometimes you have to be able to see throught he bs posturing that goes on during these negotiations.

    of course halladay will accept a trade and a hefty extension if hes still with the jays in july and they are 17 games out and playing in front of nobody at the skydome.

  190. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    The contract extension lowers the price.

  191. Pat M. December 3rd, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    When Cashamn took over baseball operations, he dedicated the system to loading up with arms and catchers…..Now like many pro-pitching organizations in the past, he’s come to a fork in the road as the first tier of arms are reaching maturity….Do you continue with them or do you move them ???? Tough call and at times a organizational long term consequenses ( Nolan Ryan / John Smoltz i.e. ) can be devestating……..Yanks are loaded with arms and catchers, a very valuable coomodity….So as Betsy pointed out, it’s decision time…….If Joba could get dedicated and conditioned both he & Hughes could be the backbone of the rotation well after Derek Jeter retires and is on his way to Cooperstown……

  192. Abdababdaserser December 3rd, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    And besides, why trade either for a player with a NTC who wants to be a Yankee?

    _____________________

    While it seems like Halladay wants to be a Yankee to Yankee fans, you can’t make this assumption.

    It also doesn’t mean he will nix every deal with the hope of going to a certain team. He was said to be fine with Boston, Philly and the Yankees.

    I think the Yankees have an edge into what he really would want to do because of his friendship with AJ. AJ can be his conduit to the Yankees.

    Rich, I think Cashman has been working to build up the farm system. Now, the farm system has a number of players who are in long enough they have to be protected or moved in a trade. It creates a different mindset in to what he will do.

    When he was not willing to trade players in the farm it was in the building stage, and they had a lot of talent.

    On another point, while Joba and Hughes are young, can they really be considered prospects being that both have put in a decent amount of time in the majors? Neither one will be going back down unless its to rehab an injury.

  193. Betsy - high on pie December 3rd, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    Nick, I’m going for the “Jack the Ripper in America” show on Discovery channel….after that, a replay of the Hot Stove show on YES.

    By the way, today I saw (for the first time in years) Yankees Magazine in a local store – it was the WS edition and it had some terrific photos.

  194. Jeremy December 3rd, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    It’s time for a new core because the core of this team is getting old. The Yankees can’t keep on buying players with big contracts. And I want to see some original yankees come up and develop into stars.

    I think Phil Hughes is going to have a break out year next year. I think he has the stuff and makeup to be a great number 2 starter.

  195. Ham Fighters December 3rd, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    im with jeremy and others, a halladay trade just doesnt make much sense for the yankees in the current situation. the yankees would get older, have less young (chdeaper) talent greatly increase the payroll and set up a situation where the whole team is under contract into thier late 30′s. and its the socks (and the rest of baseball) who have to make risky, expensive moves to catch up to them, not the otherr way around.

    i know yankees fans expect the yankees to land every superstar that ever becomes available, but i really dont think this one’s gonna happen.

  196. blake December 3rd, 2009 at 8:49 pm

    Jeremy, You wouldn’t have to ruin the farm to get Halladay, and I believe Cashman absolutely would if it was the right deal because CC/Halladay would be as close to unbeatable as a baseball team can be.

  197. Phil December 3rd, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    The Sox need to save their trade pieces for a hitter.

  198. Rich in NJ December 3rd, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    Pat M.

    Jeter could be elected to the HoF in the last year of A-Rod’s contract…

    As for the accumulation of arms, the rash of TJ surgeries may have postponed the question you raised. I think the real decisions about what to do with their depth is a year away.

  199. NYYROC December 3rd, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    Picked up a copy of Baseball Insider at the newsstand. Huuuuuuughes is on the cover.

  200. Russel December 3rd, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    Dropping Wang will be a big mistake. Get him healthy again and he easily wins 20+ games for the Yankees. The defense is better now with Tex. Not only that, but he does go deep into games. They need to bring him back. Make joba the fifth starter and keep Hughes in the pen.

  201. Jeremy December 3rd, 2009 at 8:53 pm

    Pat M.
    You’re right. The farm system is real deep but if you let a prospect like Montero or Hughes go it will bite you big time. It’s tough making choices in this business.

  202. blake December 3rd, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    Jeremy, its great to say that they need a new core. The problem is that a core like they have had with mulitple hall of famers doesn’t come around too often. Right now they have 2 of the best position players of all time (Jeter and Arod), one the the best offensive catchers of all time (Posada), and the very best closer of all time. Do you think there are replacements for all of that in the minors? They need to win now.. who knows when they will have an opportunity like this again

  203. Abdababdaserser December 3rd, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    Cashman has a pretty full farm system now with pitching and catchers. Its getting to a time when he will have to move some of these players as they all can’t come up.

    Cashman won’t empty the farm, nor would he have to. There are a number of pitchers that could be moved that won’t even be felt by the Yankees. Some of the players will have to be moved because they can’t all be protected either.

    Getting Halladay would mean making it likely for multiple championship runs. That doesn’t mean it would destroy a new core to be developed.

    A real core of home grown player would also include Cano. The “old core” is still going to be around for a while longer as well.

  204. Bill Porter December 3rd, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    “Dropping Wang will be a big mistake. Get him healthy again and he easily wins 20+ games for the Yankees. . .”

    If Wang doesn’t get his velocity back on that sinker after shoulder surgery he won’t win 5 games let alone 20. I hope he does get it back and that he stays and that he is what he was both for our sake and his. I don’t think it’s a slam dunk by any means though.

    Thumbs up: a cure for bum pitching shoulders.

  205. Jeremy December 3rd, 2009 at 9:00 pm

    blake
    The Yankees don’t need Halladay in order to win next year. We have plenty of pitching in the farm, and their are some low risk high reward options out there like Ben Sheets. I rather wait and see if Halladay becomes a free agent instead of giving up top prospects. And Toronto is not stupid, they will ask for the best prospects in a trade which will hurt the farm. And if you do that the Yankees no longer have the advantage over the Red Sox for years to come.

  206. Joe from Long Island December 3rd, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    Abda – as you said, a deal for Doc won’t destroy the farm system. It’s too stocked for that to happen.

    Someone, on an earlier thread – maybe SJ44? – pointed out that with the service time both Joba and Phil have already put in, they will be arbitration-elibible in two years. Is that what Toronto wants? Big paydays for the acquired players in the near future? If they really are serious about young players who are cost-controlled for long periods of time, then arms in AA-AAA make more sense.

    It all comes down to how Cash and his pitching braintrust judge Joba, Phil, IPK, etc. as to whom they make available. (Andrew Brackman?)

  207. DT - OPPC member December 3rd, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    staying with the thumbs up/thumbs down theme – Braylon Edwards is all thumbs.

  208. Jeremy December 3rd, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    I’m sorry but if you guys think that Toronto is dumb enough to not rape the Yankee farm system for Halladay when they are in their division then I want to know what you’re smoking.

    We do need a new core and if we trade Hughes, Montero, Joba, Jackson and some others for Halladay then the Yankees will fall into a rut like they did in the 80′s and 2004-2008. The old Core will still be here but not much longer if you give up alot for Halladay you will destroy this organizations future.

  209. Jeremy December 3rd, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    I just don’t see Cashman pulling the trigger. If he didn’t for Santana then he won’t do it for Halladay.

  210. Tarheelyank December 3rd, 2009 at 9:11 pm

    Thumbs up to Globe ;-)

    Thumbs up to Wisconsin for shutting up my co-workers

    Signing Damon for one year (even at a premium) would have benefited the Yankees. The fact that Cashmans did not offer arb to Damon makes me believe he has other ideas on what to do with that money.

    Just like not offering arb to Abreu. That money turned in to Tex. I am not sure whats up Cashman’s sleeve, but I am willing to bet it is Not trimming payroll.

  211. Pat M. December 3rd, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    Prior to the pitching injuries that killed the Blue Jays back in late May and early June, they are not a bad team…I am wondering just how much pitching they are really looking for…..They need position players and that maybe what they are targeting for Roy Halladay……Rich in NJ….in next year do you mean when Pettite walks away from the game ???? That’s omn the premise he’s returning for 2010

  212. brian g December 4th, 2009 at 1:49 am

    good post guys…best one yet. seems like you guys are loosening up a bit and getting confortable and i like it. it’s concise and insightful and fun to read as it is simple….

    i’m with you on a hughes deal…i’d really hate to see him go at this point…i like his potential best…i like joba’s too…i think the yanks are better off waiting, though i think halladay is about as good as there is and you get the feeling he’ll be good another 8 years…quite the quandry always…hmmm….what to do?..but these guys come from somewhere and hughes looks good…and has for awhile.

    thanks a lot.

  213. butterball December 4th, 2009 at 2:28 am

    Thumbs down to the LoHud Yankees blog for adding pop-up ads. I understand the idea behind advertising, but pop-ups are obnoxious.

  214. JeterJobaCanoFan2010 December 4th, 2009 at 6:05 am

    Dang, I just lost a long post on why Joba didn’t pitch as well in 2009 as he did in ’07 and ’08. Whatever.

    I M O, he still is the type of pitcher that will be able to dominate MLB batters when he is given one full year to pitch. He has done everything the Yankees have asked of him, including the Joba Rules. The JR rules were just plain stupid this year.

    I still believe he is a better pitcher than Hughes, has more pitches and the dynamics to be a top of the rotation pitcher in the future.

    Joe did TRUST Joba to relieve in the WS over Phil, who did, now admit it, choke badly. I think that Phil has felt the pressure more of the competion forced upon he and Joba. the only way he will become a force is if Joba is not on the same team.

    If you have watched Joba pitch the past 3 years, who would you rather pitch against you in a game? Joba or Phil??

  215. Patrick from CT December 4th, 2009 at 9:48 am

    Andy coming back has to be first on the list. Give him 10mil plus another 2mil in insentives if you really want him back. No screwing around with him or his adjents this year.
    If Andy is retiring then the Yankees need to get another real good #2 or #3 starter. Andy was the 2nd best pitcher on the 2009 Yankees without question. Joba or Phil are not ready to fill that roll. Suff wise they have more than Andy but Andy is consistant and has a huge heart
    I honestly don’t think that Cash will give up Phil or Joba in a multi player trade for Doc. If Andy retires, that could change though.

  216. GiantsCauseway December 4th, 2009 at 10:54 am

    Thumbs down to a best of 7 division series. However..I think the wild- card team should only have one game at home. I know the schedules are unbalanced but having the best record should count for something.

  217. Nevada Yank December 4th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Seems like people are starting to understand that Joba doesn’t have the same “make-up” as Hughes. Maybe too much of his mom in him. If he (Joba) doesn’t regain extreme heater, he’s not gonna be that effective as a reliever or starter. But of the two, he belongs in the pen ! PERIOD

    Halladay, yes, but don’t give too much ! May only have 3-4 good years left. Never know when injury could pop up.

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