A smaller number, but hardly a small number
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 04, 2009 
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If the Yankees actually do trim their payroll to $185 million, it will be a significant cut from this year’s spending, but it’s hard to call $185 million insufficient for a title defense. I generally don’t like comparing the Yankees’ payroll to that of other teams — it’s a good thing having owners who are willing to spend — but it’s worth noting that $185 million would still be significantly more than any other team spent this season. Almost $50 million more.
Basically, take baseball’s second-highest 2009 payroll and add Derek Jeter, Mark Teixeira and the mistake of Kei Igawa. That’s roughly $185 million. It’s enough to field a highly paid roster, plus two additional MVP candidates and still have enough to make up for a bad contract.
Cutting payroll to $185 million would to make it tough to replace or re-sign Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui and Andy Pettitte, but it’s certainly enough to build a championship team. Is there really any way the Yankees are going to hold themselves to a different standard?
Let’s not forget that today’s reports of cutting payroll also came with a report that the Yankees will look into a trade for Roy Halladay. That’s doesn’t sound like a team that’s thinking small next season.
I think they’re looking to save money for a big splash next offseason.
The 185 number didn’t come from the Yanks. This is how misinformation gets spread.
From the previous thread -
If they intend to cut payroll, why would they go to arbitration with Gaudin and pay him $2.5 mil? They could replace him with Kennedy or Aceves for the minimum. If they do decide to cut payroll– that is where the cuts will be, not the big fish.
Hal is a businessman from Williams University… he knows what he is doing.
Williams is a college, not a university.
Jeremy, I don’t know that the Yankees aren’t going to pursue Roy (unless the Jays don’t come down off of their request for a combo of Joba, Hughes, Montero and AJax), just that the $185 million doesn’t jibe with the report.
Phil – I hope you’re right about the figure.
To everyone screaming at fans who are concerned about the $185 – calm down and get off your high horse.
The current tentative 2010 payroll for Florida’s not even 10 million!?
Hal = Cheap
Who cares what college Hal went to. The guys who bankrupted Bear Sterns and Lehman Bros and nearly trigger the great recession all went to fancy colleges as well.
Not surprising… Cash had to beg on his knees to get Teixeria last year, despite the fact that his contract would not be prohibitive to our payroll at all (we were actually UNDER where we were in 2008).
No shock that after the Teixeria signing, Hal imposed a budget on him and told him no more toys unless they fit in our budget. Same reason we didn’t get anyone at the deadline (no not that bum Washburn, I mean other guys).
Meet the new boss…. cheaper than the old boss.
I hope Heyman’s report is wrong… we shouldn’t even be discussing Joba, Hughes, or Montero with Toronto, considering the player in question has a NTC and wants to be a Yankee.
Meet the new boss…. cheaper than the old boss.
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No kidding.
George is rolling over in his bed.
It says “around $185m.” So that could mean $190m or so. But when, for example, Boras meets with Cash and says he wants $13m or more per year, Cash can say that his budget won’t allow it. That’s what this is all about, imo. Players want to play for this team, and some will have to take less to do so.
btw, They need to find a way to dump Igawas’s $4m.
Heyman doesn’t know jack about prospects. He ticked off 4 that were better than anything the Sox have and said the Sox would probably get Halladay. It was a stupid post.
Our fans are too spoiled. We can’t even accept slashing payroll after winning a title. Would you rather they slash payroll during our drought?
If they can’t cut payroll after a championship season, when can they? After 2 titles? Then people will complain that we are not trying for a 3-pete.
Same story every year. Fortunately, Cash and Hal doesn’t listen to the fans and they will do whatever they want to the payroll, as they are entitled to do after winning a title.
I would call this a “trim” — NO, it’s a down, right amputation.
“I think they’re looking to save money for a big splash next offseason”
If that was their primary goal, they could merely hold the line on number of years rather than AAV and the payroll for this season could stay the same or go up.
Speaking of colleges, how did Heyman get into to Northestern? He’s a morooooon.
Voice of reason December 4th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
Our fans are too spoiled.
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dude/dudette
The Steinbrenners are the first once who start SCREAMING if the team doesn’t win the series.
SMARTER than the old boss.
Some restraint is important and valuable and encourages more patience with young players.
But no way I’m buying this $ 185 Million line of nonsense.
edit: Northwestern
I need to go to typing school.
Rich,
Northwestern or Northeaster for Heyman?
Thanks. I can’t believe he went to Northwestern.
Voice of Reason, the payroll will go down as the prospects come up, they don’t need to artificially slash it while they’re waiting for the organic solution.
Back to Heyman for a sec – The best Yankee package is better than the best Sox package. As long as the Jays can justify a Sox trade by saying that they got the Sox’ best prospects, they are in good shape with their fans. It will be harder (impossible, probably) for the Yankees to part with what the Jays are asking than for the Sox to part with what is being asked from them (presumably Bucholz, Kelly..?). I guess we’ll see how much room the Jays will allow for negotiation…..
Betsy,
It’s up to Halladay, not the Jays and the Sox are gonna need their prospects for offense.
If we have 15-20M to play with to begin the season, lets see what we can do:
Trade arb eligible Melky plus minor leaguers to Tigers for Granderson. Net cost about 4M.
Trade arb eligibles Gaudin and Bruney to Royals for DeJesus. Net cost about 1.2M
Sign Rich Harden for 6M plus incentives. Sign Ben Sheets for the same deal @ 6M.
Let Gardner and Jackson compete for other OF spot with Swisher moving to DH.
Rotation: CC, AJ, Harden,Sheets, Hughes
Bullpen: Rivera,Joba, Robertson,Aceves, Marte, Coke, Melancon.
Lineup:
Jeter SS
DeJesus LF
Granderson CF
A-Rod-3B
Teixeira 1B
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swisher DH
Gardner/Ajax RF
I personally am not a believer that salaries will be held to 185-190M, but this scenario would fit the budget. Of course we’ll need to trade for Doc by midseason, or bring back Pettitte in June, because Harden Sheets and Hughes will all have reached their innings limit in whatever is left of their arms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think they are playing just like they did last year after they signed CC and AJ. They thought they were done with free agents but when the opportunity prsented itself they opened up their wallet for Tex.
They may have a goal to get down to $185 Million. Setting their initial goal that low may even suppress the proces of the free agents enough for them to pick up Harden, Sheets, Bedard of possibly even Lackey, Bay or Holliday at a reduced price.
If a great opportunity pesents itself I’m sure cash will ask for more money and Hal will give it to him.
proces = prices
Many of the fans are spoiled. Face it people George is not calling the shots anymore. And to all those people that think that everything George did was so perfect take a look at the yankees from 1980-1993, and what happened in the 2000′s. George is a great boss but he is not perfect, and some of his choices hurt this organization at times.
Thank God we have these people calling the shots and not the fans because if the fans were calling the shots the yankees would be like the mets. Or should I say NY Mess.
“Trade arb eligible Melky plus minor leaguers to Tigers for Granderson. Net cost about 4M.”
AJack, Gardner and IPK? because I doubt the Tigers would it for less and I doubt they want Melky.
OT, nice road win for the Knicks w/o Gallo.
Phil, the problem for the Sox is that if the Pads and Tigers are not inclined to move their sluggers, where are they going to go for offense?
Horrendous choice, and all on George: turning Righetti into a reliever, and probably costing the Yanks a pennant or two in the process.
CD
George was the only one crying when the yankees wouldn’t win every year. Thank god Hal and Cashman aren’t like that.
If George was fully in charge during the 90′s Andy P. Mariano, Bernie, Jeter, and Posada all would have been traded away for old washed up talent.
Jeremy, I lived through the 80s and early to mid 90′s, so I know that the Boss was not perfect……..far from it.
Betsy,
That’s not my problem. Halladay wants to be a Yankee, and it appears that the Yanks will bid. I think he’ll be a Yankee. He can say to Toronto, take this deal or I’ll approve no other.
Gotta head out and go with my friends and their little girl to see Santa! I wouldn’t be shocked if a trade happens in the next 48 hours to clear some space from the 40.
Jeremy
December 4th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
CD
George was the only one crying when the yankees wouldn’t win every year. Thank god Hal and Cashman aren’t like that.
If George was fully in charge during the 90’s Andy P. Mariano, Bernie, Jeter, and Posada all would have been traded away for old washed up talent.
====
George is best as a figurehead. Hopefully, he’s “involved” in the talks to allow him to feel connected, with no one taking any of his blustery ideas seriously.
Have a good time, Phil!
http://fullcount.weei.com/spor.....h-red-sox/
San Diego Padres GM Jed Hoyer, who served as Red Sox Assistant GM through the 2009 season, suggested in a conference call that the Padres would have a “level of comfort” in any potential trade with the Red Sox.
Hoyer suggested that contemplating the likelihood of a trade of Adrian Gonzalez to the Sox would be “just speculation.” That said, with both Hoyer and new Assistant GM Jason McLeod (former the Red Sox amateur scouting director) in San Diego, the Padres suggest that they would have greater confidence in evaluating any players whom they might acquire from Boston in a deal that they would with another club.
**not sure if this means anything or not.
Betsy – high on pie
Yeah anybody that went through those times would know.
Betsy, that just means that the Padres won’t be hosed by that Red Sox. They know what the talent is and more importantly is not.
They aren’t moving there to help out the Sox.
Jeremy, that said – and I guess it helps that he mellowed some years ago – the man burns to win. He wants to win more than he wants to make a profit – that makes George a unique owner in sports period, not just baseball. For all the bad he did the team through his misguided attempts to run the team, the owners of these small market teams are far worse. They pocket the Yankees $$, the Sox $$, the Mets, the Cubs….the Phillies’ $$$ and don’t put anything back into the team. I think what’s happened to the Marlins (and continues to happen), this constant building and tearing down of the team, is a joke and a sports tragedy. I really don’t know why anyone would want to be a fan of that team.
That article is the result of a new vacuum.
Aba, I agree
Former Blue Jays’ GM J.P. Ricciardi said that Roy Halladay wants to be traded, according to The Canadian Press. Ricciardi added that a “lot of these decisions are out of the general manager’s hands as far as what ownership perceives as fan reaction and what the perception of the club (is) and the direction that they are going. I think any time you have a player of this magnitude, that’s really an ownership call.”
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Riccardi probably knows that Halladay wants out of Toronto. Its tied to Halladay putting in his trade by ST or not at all demand. The owners know it. Add to that the NTC that Halladay has, they might not have as much say on this as they would like to have.
The Phillies are reported to be out of the running for him, but who knows. When push comes to shove, two players who are either playing in the majors or close to it are far better than draft picks and a player who wants out.
That isn’t saying that the Yankees are getting him or even want to go after him. I do think they at least are thinking about it, and how could you not?
Betsy – high on pie
I agree. I’m still glad that George bought the team. He is better than the rest of these crappy MLB owners. And I think that MLB should create a salary floor so these other pathetic organizations can start investing in their teams.
I really don’t see any of the big market teams going after Halladay. Teams don’t want to give up the farm plus money for him. I think he will be a free agent next year. I rather get him as a free agent for 5/6 years.
George ran things at times as if it were a football team. He also had some people around him that didn’t help him make the best baseball decisions.
Still, he kept things interesting, win or lose. He was bold and demanding, but he always looked to invest in the team.
He brought the team back from the truly dark times for the franchise, injected it with life, gave the fans and foes something to think about and that was good for business.
I would rather have an owner like George than one like Pohlad any day.
The Yankees have been running a 15M+ deficit on the Yankees side of the business for years now. The limited partners have been complaining about this for years. This has also raised the eyebrows of the small market owner and commissioners office, who think the Yankees are hiding a ton of money. This year they are still showing a small negative (-4M) on their books according to Forbes.
Are the Yankees losing money? NO! They have several business and income streams that they don’t have to share. However, not running yearly deficits on the Yankees books keeps the commissioners office off their behinds about them devaluing their broadcasting rights to YES and hiding money.
People seem to forget that Hal wanted to lower the payroll another 20M last year, but Cash convinced him to spend this years big money last year by signing Tex.
After that signing, Hal REFUSED to let Cash add ANY money at the deadline and the Yankees slightly lowered their draft budget as well.
Starters…
Joba 500K, Hughes 500K, Burnett 16.5M, Sabathia 23M, Pettitte 8M + incentives = 48.5M
Bullpen…
Melancon 400K, Robertson 425K, Coke 425K, Aceves 425K, Bruney 1.75M, Marte 4M, Rivera 15M = 22.4M
Lineup…
Cabrera 2.5M, Cano 9M, Swisher 6.75M, Teix 20M, Alex 33M, Jeter 21M, Posada 13.1M, Damon 8M, Miranda 400K = 113.8M
Bench…
Cervelli 400K, Gardner 425K + 1.5M for others = 2.3M
Extended roster…
13 minor leaguers 416K, Brackman 858K = 1.7M
48.5M + 22.4M + 113.8M + 2.3M + 1.7M = 188.7M
Take out Pettitte & add Halladay @ 15M = 196M
Take out Cabrera & add Granderson @ 5.5M = 191.7M
^^^^^ I expect Wang to be non tendered, Gaudin traded, Damon back at 6-8M or Cameron signed @ the same money, Matsui gone, Mirada given a shot to the deadline to make his case @ DH, Pettitte back or Halladay replacing him, Cabrera in OF or a trade for Granderson.
Final payroll around 189-195M
It means Gonzalez will be traded for Michael Bowden and Delcarmen.
Sox can’t top a package of Kennedy, Romine, and McAllister with any package that doesn’t include Buchholz AND Kelly (Theo doesn’t want to even move one of them, forget both).
We are in the drivers seat for Doc. It’s all a matter of if, when push comes to shove, Jays ownership will have the stomach to trade him to the Yankees. If they do, he’s ours… assuming Hal will allow the extension.
Jeremy, I wish they would create a salary floor. I understand sports is a business, but it’s a unique business and owners that aren’t in it to try and win are doing their clients (the fanbase) a big disservice. Now if a salary floor has to come with a cap (not sure why it would, but people have mentioned it before), then forget the floor. I detest the idea of a cap and it will never happen anyway.
Aba, the Jays (I hope) do not try to make Doc the bad guy. He’s busted his hump for a long time for that team – he’s earned the right (even if it’s not this year, it will be next) to try and win. He deserves a shot, like Mattingly did, to show his best on the biggest stage ( I don’t mean NY necessarily, I mean the post-season).
Doc needs to show us how much he wants to be a Yankee— force his way here. Don’t allow a trade to any other team. Tell Antholopolous that if he doesn’t trade him to the Yanks, he will sign with them next winter anyway and all the team will have to show for it are 2 draft picks in the 30s and 40s.
He wants to be a Yankee– time for him to show it.
Aba, George comes from Cleveland – and I think he was a friend of Paul Brown. He definitely had a football mentality – which is all wrong for baseball. First off, football plays off of emotion, baseball does not. Secondly, the NFL season is only 16 games – every game, therefore, is important. George would try and motivate his players with outbursts, but that was the wrong tact. The baseball season is too long to treat every game like war. He never got (until late, that is) that baseball is truly a game of failure.
Jeremy, I guess we’ll have to wait and see – this is like a high stakes game of chess. I’ve said it before, but I can see Doc accepting a trade to say, the Angels, even if it’s not his preferred destination (I do think he wants an East Coast team who trains in Florida). After all, he’d get out of Toronto……..However, I think he would do that without signing an extension. Why give up his FA years when, after the 2010 season, he can go wherever he wants to go? Or, he may just sit tight – he’s waited this long, after all.
Maybe a salary floor will force the crappy owners to sell their teams.
JK, you think the Yanks will trade Gaudin? I kind of think he’s a nice piece to hold onto…….
The Union has the concern that once a salary floor is put in place then it will open the door to a cap.
Wiener was on ESPN radio earlier this week talking about that. He was firm on saying that there would be no floor or cap, and that the players wouldn’t bend on that.
This was when he talked about going to the best of seven for all the rounds of the playoffs. Less days off between games were mentioned as well.
He had claimed that they keep an eye on the money received by the various sources were used on baseball ops, but declined to talk much other than saying they work very closely with the commissioner on this.
Betsy, I think the Jays will do whatever they can to lessen the impact of losing Halladay. If that means he takes a hit or Riccardi takes a hit, so be it.
I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that they are selling the team. There were rumors to that effect, but with the economy that talk has slowed down. They are a club that is trying to rebuild, but to do that they need some younger players. Halladay probably did ask for a trade. He was very unhappy about how things went once he was on the trade block. Honestly, the fans will see through that, but its about creating an excuse as much as anything else at this point for the Jays.
“He wants to win more than he wants to make a profit – that makes George a unique owner in sports period, not just baseball.”
you’re really naive if you believe this. There’s a reason George wants to win. More trophies mean more fans which means more money.
I do think that Halladay wants to be a yankee, and who could blame him. But I just don’t see any of these teams trading away the farm plus paying out a big contract. I see this developing into a certain situation like CC where the Yankees get him as a free agent.
Another factor that is impacting attendance at the Jays’ games is the tougher requirements for US citizens to travel back from Canada. You need a passport or some special paper and it takes hours to wait in line to cross the border.
People from Central NY and Western NY used to go to a lot of games there, but that has fallen off big time since the changes at the border.
I agree with that to a point Raymagnetic. George knew winning put fans in the seats and buying merchandise, but there was also the ego about being the biggest winner that was driving him as well.
He worked at creating new revenue streams to fuel his manic desire to win. It went hand in hand.
A fan may love a team, but when they are losing all the time the fans don’t support it as they do a team that wins.
I think some of the downturn at the Stadium this past season was in part the price and economy hitting as it did, and in part because the Yankees didn’t make the playoffs the year before. People don’t like to pay to go to games to see their team lose.
Ray, that’s true……..by the way, I am naive and I know it (not that it’s a bad word – I’d rather be naive than jaded). I shouldn’t have worded it that way, but instead put it this way – George didn’t care how much $$$ he spent to ensure he had a winning team. His son is not quite that the free-spender(though he’s hardly a cheapskate). I do understand what the Yankees are trying to do and I have no problem with that (as long as they don’t go overboard and cut payroll just to say they cut payroll).
Jeremy, if Doc decides to hold out until next year or the Jays do – I’m fine with that. He’s earned the right to get to free agency – it’s very likely his last contract. He should carefully consider where he wants to spend the last years of his career….
Jeremy, while I think there are a lot of things that seem to point to Halladay wanting to be a Yankee, I think he is too smart and classy to express it outright.
He may have the backdoor emissary in AJ trying to work things for it to happen this year, but other than hearing that AJ is talking up the Doc, we won’t hear anything. Otherwise it could lead to troubles.
So…. if the Yankees are planning on cutting payroll by 20% does that mean they are cutting their $76 per seat average ticket price by 20% as well?
Olney:
The Yankees’ budget is set somewhere between the low $190s and $200 million. Of course, it is not a hard ceiling — as always.
http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/6359208063
9:40pm: Olney says the team’s 2010 payroll has been set somewhere between $190-200M, and as always, “it is not a hard ceiling.”
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The above from MLB TradeRumors.
Seems Olney couldn’t even stick to his budget. lol.
I guess he realized how his earlier tweet sounded and he had to revise it to be a little more realistic. I love the “not a hard ceiling” bit to give himself the out.
Betsy,
Unless he’s starting, I can’t see the Yankees justifying paying Gaudin 3-3.5M in arb to be in the bullpen. They could let Kennedy get his feet wet in that role for 400K.
9:40pm: Olney says the team’s 2010 payroll has been set somewhere between $190-200M, and as always, “it is not a hard ceiling.”
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....yroll.html
We NAILED that sucker…
JK, that’s a good point. I like him, though – I hope he’s back. I’m rooting for IPK, but he’s got lots to prove. This is going to be an interesting off-season.
Darn, too late – I thought I’d be the first one in with that tidbit.
9:40pm: Olney says the team’s 2010 payroll has been set somewhere between $190-200M, and as always, “it is not a hard ceiling.”
That puts my estimated 189-196M payroll right on target.
If the Yankees offer any 2 of those 4 prospects mentioned can another team beat that?
If we wait till tomorrow afternoon, will Olney have the Yankee budget set at 250 million? lol
The Yankees are tired of being charged more for the same players.
I believe this is at least somewhat a game of posturing.
If you want to play for the best team in sports, you can do it but you can’t try to hold the Yanks hostage for more $$.
Damon, you want to stay? great. 2yr/$18M.
Free agents? you want a shot a title? Great. Take a little less from the Yanks than the SF Giants or Mariners are offering.
cutting payroll is a smart move for the Yanks.
I wouldn’t mind getting Halladay as a free agent because we wouldn’t lose Montero, Jackson, Hughes, or Joba. These players will be the new core and the face of the franchise. Plus we would already have CC, Burnett, and Tex in their prime. Which means the Yankees will be on top for many years while the Sox turn into a second rate organization.
“I wouldn’t mind getting Halladay as a free agent because we wouldn’t lose Montero, Jackson, Hughes, or Joba”
They only player that they would trade from that list is Jackson.
Anybody interested in Conor Jackson with AZ for the OF?
I think they would trade Joba and Jackson
The other part to remember about Joba and Hughes is that they really aren’t prospects anymore. While the success they have had is limited, they are major league players which changes the equation a good deal.
Jeremy, you can’t label any of these young players the next core… except maybe Robinson Cano. Teixeira is part of the “next core” even if he didn’t come up through the system, and even Alex given how long he will be with the team.
They definitely have a shot, but the only way they are the “new core” is if they are part of a new dynasty. I don’t see the Yankees giving up Montero, I also think Hughes is valued over Joba, and has been for almost the whole time he has been in the organization. Joba and Jackson are valued highly, but I don’t think they are untouchable.
If it is true about the 185 million, it will be impossible to get what we need. Although I know that Marco Scutaro is not that good, we are not going to get handed a guy coming off his career year with his only chance to get a big contract, who happens to play the prime defensive position of SS, is referred to by his ex GM as one of the best SS in the game, and who happened to get offered more years and more money than the Red Sox.
That is why I do not believe Boston Olney’s 185 million tweet. Either he was fed that, or he is putting that out there, so when we do indeed go over 185 million or 200 million, then the media can pounce all over us again, as they usually do. The media can bring up how our payroll is unfair, yada, yada, yada.
Boston Dave,
Totally agreed. Other teams are paying ML shortstops $5M, power OF bats $9M. Not us.
Joba is 24. He has pitched 3 years in the majors. Its still very early in his career but he’s been around long enough to have an idea of what he is. The fact is that he took a step backwards last year, showed a loss of velocity, and still hasn’t shown the stamina needed to start. His best work has been out of the pen thus far in his career.
Now this doesn’t mean he can’t develop into a good pitcher but it should give enough doubt to warrant trading him for the best pitcher in baseball, at least I think so. Most great pitchers struggled early in their careers, but you know what so did most crappy pitchers
Someone else here used to talk a lot about a young core.
I see Hughes being a top of the line starter in the AL. I rather give up young talent for young talent, not for older talent. We don’t need Halladay next year, and I would be willing to see if he becomes a free agent.
Abdababdaserser
I see Montero being the future face of the franchise. This kid is the real deal, and is a really good hitter. Yes Tex and Cano are the new core, but you need more than 2 players.
Figgins and Mariners have a preliminary deal, Angel conceding that Figgins is as good as gone.
The Angels have me very puzzled. Figgins leaving, K-Rod and Teixeira last season, next will be Lackey and Vlad.
If the Mariners are in on Lackey and sign him I think the Angels are more likely to be the second place team in the AL West. After they signed Abreu I really thought they would look to sign at least Lackey. Either they know something about these players that isn’t apparent, or there is some fiscal problems not known yet. Maybe its the state of California and the taxes that are putting them in a tougher position.
I have been drooling over Doc for the past week… I can’t stop. I keep refreshing MLBTradeRumors to see if there is any new info.
I always knew that Marco Scutaro looked like your typical Red Sox scumbag. Can’t wait to see his scumbag facial hair.
With that, did anyone see the way that parasite (I would have called him an animal, but I did not want to insult animals) posed while putting on the Red Sox jersey at his press conference.
As if he will not get kicked to the curb when the Red Sox so desire.
Losing good young players would be painful, but we’re talking about one of the best pitchers in all of baseball. One of the best.
USA v ENGLAND!!!!!
So stoked – sorry LoHud but this is the story of the day!
To keep it relevant – Yankees have made bad contracts, but the bad ones are the old ones like Igawa. Teix and C.C. just won a TITLE! They were worth the money and will produce as they just proved.
I’m just sick of every player giving Boston a discount.
Everyone talks about how they have to pay Beckett big bucks and that’s why the Sox won’t get Halladay…. watch Beckett take an under market deal to stay in Boston and sign for way less than he would get on the market.
CR9
I actually thought about that earlier. What if Buster Olney just made that payroll story up ? I could believe it because he hates the Yankees and I can’t stand him and the majority of people at ESPN- Extreme Sox Propaganda Network.
Scuerto is a Red Sox type player—- not much of a bat, but a very pesky player who just grinds out ABs and dinks and dunks hits all over. Like Youkallis without the power.
He’s going to use the green monster very well. Won’t be surprised if he puts up some good numbers.
ESPN airs more UConn games than any other NCAA team because Calhoun is a Sox fan….
The sox can have pesky, i’ll take good.
m
It’s not worth it when the pitcher is going to be a free agent the year after. That kind of thinking did not help for most of the 2000′s.
Jeremy, I’m saying that Montero is at this point untouchable. I also think Hughes is back on that list, even though he was shaky for a bit with the Yankees, almost in the deal for Santana. Add Montero and Hughes to Robbie and Teixeira and there is your younger core 4.
For all we know there is a player in the minors that isn’t even acknowledged yet that will be a part of the on going Yankee franchise.
I think its way too soon to call a player a face of the franchise player when they haven’t done anything yet. Montero may be that player, but that takes playing in majors and doing well to become that. I think that type of thing actually hurt Hughes’ development. Too much hype for a young kid to deal with. (Probably part of Joba’s problem as well, having to live up to the hype).
How about a new nickname for the newest Sock?
Squirtle.
Is there a rule prohibiting signing a player to an extension?
Jim
You sound a lot like Jim Pir-one. But you are right. They always get players to give them discounts. It was refreshing to see Mark Teixeira stiff them and then win it all. I would not be surprised either to see Beckett take a lesser deal to stay with them. There would definitely be no problems between Josh and Roy if Roy comes there and is the ace. Heck, there should be a problem between Marco Scutaro and Josh Beckett, seeing as Josh and his immaturity nearly ended Scutaro’s career with the drill shot to the skull.
Jeremy
Everything Sox and Patriots Network
That stupid Green Monster helps any hitter. Look at Nick Green this year. That ball park is such a joke ! Any ball hit in the air that way turns into a hit. In any other park it’s a regular fly ball out.
And the park has horrible seats, and it’s ugly.
Abdababdaserser
I agree.
Jim, I don’t see Beckett giving a discount unless his health is in question. His ego is far too big for that. Same with Papelbon.
Scutaro is an OK player, but he just had a career year. He may or may not hit like he did last year.
Funny thing, he is about the same size as Pedroia, at least on paper. He is listed as 5’9″, 175 lbs. That is a fairly short up the middle infield for the Sox. Bloopers could just be out of reach for them.
Ted Williams was about the only Sox hitter who didn’t try to exploit the monster. He refused to get cheap hits to left when he could just smoke it past people to right.
Scutaro is average at the very best. His “career year” last year was what .268 with 12 HR’s….please. He’s been below average every other year.
m, I always called him Suckaro, but Squirtaro works, or Squirtle. lol.
Jeremy, the trouble with the Green Monster is it affects some of their players hitting where they have worse and worse splits away from home.
Jeremy
Fenway Field is hailed as such a great park by ESPN and Pete Abe and the like. In reality, it is nothing more than a dump. IF there is one word to describe it, it would either be “dump” or “gloomy.”
Same way ESPN calls the TD Banknorth Garden, “The Garden,” when that is actually supposed to be New York’s MSG’s nickname.
Their “Garden” produced 2 Game 7 losses last year
Fenway Field lol
Jim
December 4th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
I’m just sick of every player giving Boston a discount.
Everyone talks about how they have to pay Beckett big bucks and that’s why the Sox won’t get Halladay…. watch Beckett take an under market deal to stay in Boston and sign for way less than he would get on the market.
=======
No way. They tried to renegotiate with him already and he refused. There is no way Josh Beckett gives Boston a hometown discount to accommodate a Halladay bonanza.
Beckett has a huge ego.
blake
December 4th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
“Scutaro is average at the very best. His “career year” last year was what .268 with 12 HR’s….please. He’s been below average every other year.”
___________________________________________________
I actually agree that Scutaro is a fairly average player, but just to set the record straight his average last year was .282
The difference between Sam/Chad and Pete are night and day.
It is a god-send to have objective beat writers who engage the community, rather than promote their agendas (Girardi, A-Rod) and pick fights with the posters.
LoHud is in much better hands now while Pete’s new blog receives about 2 comments a week.
ok…sorry, he’s a career .265 hitter though.
“Squirtle”?
M – That’s cute, but people might get confused with Pedroia on the same team.
Beckett will sign for $20m a year, minimum.
Abdababdaserser
Yeah we saw that a lot this year with the Sox players. They can’t hit outside of Fenway unless they face the Orioles. I think the same thing is going to happen next year.
m, you make a very valid point about Doc being one of the games best….Just tink what his numbers would be playing with the Yanks with Rivera sitting in the pen…..I think one of the issues that was talked about today amongst the The Brass and the Minor league people was, if we move Joba hwo do we have coming up and how soon before they / he is ready ???? Yanks have pitching depth however how soon does that relate in terms of being ready for the Bigs….I always thought that Phillip Hughes was on track to be a starting pitcher in 2009…The freakish injuries in that Texas no-hit game in early 2007 & the rib injury in early 2008 just sidelined his growth cycle…..The question is how soon will it be to replace Joba if they go for Doc ??? If Halladay is in the rotation with CC, AJ, Pettite Doc & Hughes, is Kennedy the guy to take Pettite’s slot…..Had Young Master Hughes not been derailed in 07 & 08, Andy Pettite would be a moot point right now….And had Joba come to camp in 09 ready to be a MLB Starting Pitcher, Doc Halladay would not be such a big topic…..Cashman is always looking 3 years up the road….As an effectively good GM you have have a vision to the future…
Beckett’s huge ego was displayed crystal clear when he intentionally tried to decapitate Bobby Abreu, only a few days after the Angels tragically lost their own teammate, Adenhart.
I really don’t think the Yankees are considering trading Joba for a 33 year old.
“Their “Garden” produced 2 Game 7 losses last year”
And how many champions has Madison Square Garden produced lately?
CR9
Fenway Field LOL !
But the park is falling apart. Even Boston Dirt Dogs talked about it, and the fact that they are charging higher prices at Fenway is an even bigger joke.
If they were smart they would create a new ballpark but I know they won’t because the city of Boston won’t go for it, and John Henry is too cheap foot the entire bill.
I’d love to sign Beckett
He is scum… but man, what a competitor. Tough as nails, big game tested, always stands up for his teammates.
Paulie Numbers
Absolutely. I cannot wait until the summer to watch every game. I was laughing today about how I believe Rooney, Lamps, and Gerrard will run circles around the US. I also would like to see Beckham triumphant over (though I’m not sure he would start or play) Donovan.
Is it too much to ask for the Yankees to be cruising in the AL East by 15 games by the start of the World Cup, so I can enjoy it.
Pat M.
All good points.
jake
As many as Banknorth in the last 15 years!
“I actually agree that Scutaro is a fairly average player, but just to set the record straight his average last year was .282″
AVG is a very uninformative stat.
If you want to point to how good his season was, look at his 111 OPS+ (compared to his career 92 OPS+).
His WAR was 4.5. If he is a 2.5 WAR player for you, the RS got a very good deal.
Rich – Agree. They are not giving up Joba for a guy they can sign next year. Cashman has always said he doesn’t want to pay twice for a guy… let alone a 33 yr old.
Cashman has more faith than most of the fans here.
There is something to be said for having the most historic and quaint ballpark in the league, however….
Fenway is good for baseball. Do we really want to see the Red Sox play in a place called “Verizon Wireless Stadium” Field” in Cambridge, Mass.?
Rich, I think they are and I think they should be. With Halladays work ethic and conditioning there is no reason to believe he won’t be one of the best in baseball for the next 4 or 5 years. In contrast, there is no reason to believe Joba will ever be more than an average starting pitcher or that he won’t end up in the bullpen.
Halladay is getting moved this offseason and he will likely sign an extension when he does. So therefore he won’t be available next year to sign as a free agent as some of you keep saying. The last GM got fired at least partly for not trading Halladay. Do you really think the new one is going to make the same mistake?
CR9 – Hmm, I must root for the U.S. of course! As an American I have to. I think the more England gets complacent is all the better for us. It’ll be an uphill battle, but England is the one that has more to prove.
Joba is out of shape, can’t repeat his delivery, and lost his velocity.
Sell him high, now. If we can get Doc for him, you do that twice on Sundays and every day of the week.
Maxwell
I really don’t care where the Sox play because I can’t stand them. But the history of the ballpark is important.
If they were smart they would fix up the park.
Rhyno, right on. He’s been living off of highlights from his 2007 season (out of the pen) for 2 years now. Don’t drink the Joba Kool-aid.
blake
How do you know ?
CC got traded to the Brewers and was offered an extension and he didn’t agree to one and tested free agency. Now he is a Yankee.
Halladay is in the driver’s seat. Even if he gets traded.
Paulie
I hope the U.S. does well also, as an American. But knowing they have no shot at winning the WC, and since I watch the Premier League all the time, and knowing England’s struggles recently and missing the Euros, I would like to see them succeed. I definitely think England will waltz through the Group Stage.
Joba’s DWI and comments about New Yorkers are also red flags against him as well.
He is just not a mature kid. The fact that he came to camp out of shape this past Spring should show us what kind of commitment he has.
Joba would rather make commercials and sit court side at NBA games.
History of Fenway Field? I care more about the history of the TV show Monk, and am more sad that it just ended tonight, than if the Fens were to implode.
Blake
If we had Halladay as a prspect you would have traded him for a bag of balls. Look at Halladay’s numbers when he came up and you will see that he had bad stats for some time. How do you know Joba will be an average pitcher ?
Remember whe the Yankees traded Al Leiter and some thought he was average ? Al Leiter became a really good pitcher.
Jeremy,
How can you be sure he won’t? Toronto is going to try their best to trade him and Halladay has made it clear he wants stability and he doesn’t want to pitch for the Blue Jays anymore. He doesn’t want to waste another year of his career there. So working out a trade benefits Toronto because the get something in return for him and it benefits Halladay because he gets out of Toronto a year earlier. CC got traded to the Brewers and was determined to become a free agent and he was traded mid season and not during the winter, its a different situation.
blake
David Cone, among others, thinks that it will take Joba until next season to regain his arm strength from the shoulder injury. Before the injury, he was about as good as any starter in MLB.
In light of those facts, I don’t understand why we should think his ceiling is that of an average pitcher.
King James
I forgot. What did Joba say about New Yorkers ?
I just hope they don’t trade Hughes or Montero because they are the real deal.
Jeremy, you can’t predict what prospects are going to do. You can say Halladay struggled early in his career but so did most pitchers. Just because Halladay struggled and overcame doesn’t mean Joba will. Hughes has struggled and you don’t see me pushing to trade him. I don’t think Joba has it between the ears. I’m not trying to be mean, I just don’t think he does or at least he hasn’t shown it yet. I think Joba is expendable and Hughes isn’t. Its just my opinion.
Rich in NJ….If Cashman does engage in talks with Toronto, you know the direction from the Jays will lead to Hughes & Chamberlain…..It’s my belief that Cashman will not trade Phillip Hughes…..And he most likely doesn’t want to move Joba as well….However, I’m certain in today’s organizational meeting this very same situation came up, and one of them will have to be included in exchange for Halladay…..I just have to think they drew the line and decided that no Hughes & no Montero, as they are off the table……If we fans and some of the more baseball savy and respected media folks are questioning Joba, on can only assume that the Yankee Brass could be at their wicks end….I would hope to see him come to camp ready to be a MLB Starting Pitcher….However does he really have the self disipline to do so….That’s the Joba qustion…..If they are serious in Doc Hallady, Cashman will have to convince Toronto that it’s Chamberlain and explain that Young Master Hughes is a exercise of peeing in the wind
“Remember whe the Yankees traded Al Leiter and some thought he was average ? ”
Actually, they traded Leiter as damaged goods. Dallas Green left in him for 150+ pitches on a cold rainy night in 1989 and he was never the same until he had surgery.
# ESPN’s Keith Law says that “with some regression, [Scutaro] will still represent a good value for his salary.” He says the loss of the draft pick “is the worst part of the deal,” though.
# ESPN’s Peter Gammons has comments from former Blue Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi praising Scutaro as “one of the best shortstops, period.”
Rich, I don’t think Joba’s ceiling is an average pitcher. I think his ceiling is very high. However, he has mechanical issues, maturity issues, injury issues, command issues, etc etc. All these things contribute to me thinking theres a very real chance he won’t get anywhere near that level. Very few players actually reach their ceiling.
blake
Yeah but please provide the names of big market teams interested in giving up their farm plus paying out a big contract ? Not many ! And the Sox, Yanks, Phillies don’t look that interested. You mean to tell me that Halladay would rather go to the Dodgers and sign there instead of an east coast team ? LOL ! If he was smart he would test free agency and get paid big time while winning a championship with the yankees.
Pat M.
The Jays will ask for the moon (actually, they don’t have to even ask because mediots like Heyman are doing their negotiating for them).
But I think the Jays know that no team wants to give up their high end, cost-controlled players for a 33 year old who will also need to be signed to a $100+ million contract.
So, imo, the Jays will then have to come to terms with the reality that they will have to lower their expectations.
Once that is done, I think they will find that a package that includes AJack, IPK, McAllister, and Melancon is the best deal they are going to get, and one that exceeds the value of two first round picks in the 25-45 range.
As for Joba’s future, nothing is a sure thing, but I don’t want to sell low on him, and that’s what we would be doing.
Unless they have medical information that states that his velo will never return, he remains an untouchable, imo.
Pat M.
You’re right.
Rich in NJ
Oh yeah I forgot about that time.
Can’t Joba be considered damaged goods too?
He has not been the same since that night in Texas when he hurt his shoulder.
Jeremy, for the reasons you mentioned I don’t think they will have to give up the farm. Halladay doesn’t want to pitch in Toronto anymore and the Jays don’t want to lose him and get nothing in return. Therefore they will likely take the best offer they get from a team he will approve a trade to. In other words, he will go to who ever gives the best offer out of the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, and Phillies. If he was 27 or 28 then it wouldn’t matter but he’s 33 and would be 34 in 2011 after free agency. He doesn’t want to waste more time losing than he has to.
Just because the Jays are willing to take X, Y, & Z from the Sox doesn’t mean that they’ll take a comparable package from the Yankees. There’s always been a Yankee tax when it comes to the big deals.
Rich in NJ
I agree with you. If that situation developed I would be on board with a trade for Halladay becuase all of our good prospects would still be here. It wouldn’t destroy the farm.
“As for Joba’s future, nothing is a sure thing, but I don’t want to sell low on him, and that’s what we would be doing”.
You can look at it that way, or you can look at it as selling high because if he has another lackluster year his value is going to nosedive.
Frank
It takes time to regain velocity after a shoulder injury. I would hold my opinion on Joba till next season.
None of us have a crystal ball. I think the Yankees will make the evaluation of the benefits and the possible pitfalls before making any trade, let alone a trade of Joba + for Halladay. Sometimes you have a deal that comes along that makes too much sense to pass up. This seems like it could be one of them.
There is no guarantee that Halladay would sign an extension, but it seems that he was tired of waiting and hoping that the Jays would put together a good enough team, he told them of his intentions to test FA. Given how he has been through the years, it seems that was his way out of Toronto. He saw AJ leaving, Rios being given away for nothing, Wells hamstringing the team, he wants to win, to be on a contender.
Joba is a question. There was a lot of talk about his attitude from Coney and Kay, who do have enough connections from the team to be able to pick up on their dissatisfaction with him.
Yes, Joba may develop. Its a tough call to make, but I know I would be leaning toward getting Doc. Especially if AJ has given word that he also wanted to be fit for pinstripes.
I do not think the Yankees will have to or should have to give up any of Hughes, Joba, or Montero, to get Roy.
Call me names and say I live in a fantasy world, but when you give up De La Rosa, Goss, Lyon, and Fossum for Curt Schilling, I do not think it’s that far of a stretch for Kennedy, Jackson, McAllister, and Romine to get Roy.
I don’t necessarily think it would take that much to get him, but I definitely think that should.
Rich, so you would rather trade IPK, McAllister, and Mellicon than Joba?
Matsui ain’t coming back. Time to get younger and more flexible by leaving the DH open.
CR9,
Colangelo purposefully asked the Sox less from us than BOS because he hated George.
blake
Absolutely. It may not even cost that much though.
I personally would much rather just include Joba in the deal than give up 3 or 4 other players such as Romine (could be the future catcher), Kennedy (I believe in as a starter more than Joba), McAllister, etc…
m, it all depends on the background story that we don’t know about, that could change the complexion of the Halladay trade requirements. If the Jays have to move him, and Halladay limits the teams he will waive his NTC for, they might not have much choice in the matter.
Besides, the Yankees got a pretty good deal in getting Swisher with no Yankee tax involved.
Personally… if I had to give up Joba + a lesser prospect OR Kennedy, Romine, McAllister, Melancon…. I’d much rather just give up Joba.
Its amazing how much equity a few 100 MPH fastballs in 2007 can earn a guy.
btw, For all of Joba’s problems this season, he was one of the few pitchers that Girardi trusted in the WS. Thats a testament to their feelings about his make up.
Sox will offer Bowden, Tazawa, and Westermoreland then to counter our Kennedy+ package, and we’ll be right back to square 1 where we need to include one if the big 3.
The good thing about the pitching depth is if you lose one good “prospect”, there’s more there. And you get a great pitcher coming back.
As far as pitching in the higher levels, the Sox have Buccholz…and Buchholz.
blake
While I do believe Kennedy can be successful, given his struggles were due to injury, Joba IMO has a far higher ceiling. And has showed that he can dominate ML hitters, although in the smallest of sample sizes.
Rich, he trusted him as a relief pitcher. He trusted him so much as a starter that they went to a 3 man rotation, so in other words he had zero faith in him as a starter.
CRP, That one hellava package….Too much I think, extract Jackson or Romine…..Jays are in good shape in the pitching department when eveyone returns from an injury riddled 09…..They are looking at a now starting pitcher, and a few high quality prospects….The catcher prospect could make the deal….However if that is what it’d take, make the trade……
Tim, while I am all for getting younger, how exactly is that accomplished by leaving the DH slot open? Alex won’t be skipping as many games this season as he has had a year to heal. During the season was a different matter.
How often do you see Posada, Jeter, Alex, Swisher, Teixeira and if he comes back (big if at this point) Damon, taking on the DH role?
CR9. I agree that Joba has a higher ceiling. But if I had to bet who will have the better career as a starting pitcher. I’d bet on Kennedy.
Blake, I’m not sure I agree….I think Doc would prefer to be a Yankee instead of an Angel. Now, if the Jays work out a deal with the Angels (and it doesn’t look good for re-signing Lackey, so they will be looking for a pitcher), Doc could easily nix an extension. He’d still be going to a contender and he could get his stability next year. No one really knows what he’s thinking, but he’s got total control of his situation next year; why not take advantage of it? Of course, he could privately tell the Jays that he won’t sign an extension with certain teams that he has on his list…….
It’s fine for the Jays to start asking for the sun and the moon, but we will know how serious they are about dealing him by their negotiating stance. With Ricciardi, there was no budging, no room for negotiating. I wonder if the Yankees would give the Jays a list of players to choose from……
Girardi trusted him because there was nobody else. Everyone crapped the bed at the same time – Hughes, Coke, Aceves etc.
At that point, he just threw everything against the wall to see what stuck. It’s not like Joba was lights out… Marte/MO bailed him out a lot during the postseason by stranding his runners.
abda,
LOL. Swisher was not a big deal. He was a salary dump.
I mean the big game fish.
As for Joba in the postseason, he only sucked slightly less than Hughes. So don’t go overboard. It was more a product of what Hughes didn’t do than what Joba did.
Bowden is a proven bum, although in a small sample size.
Westmoreland is nothing more than a figment of Peter Gammons, BP, and BA’s imagination.
Tazawa is another proven bum, although young and in a small sample size.
P Gammo recently wrote that Kelly is poised beyond his years, and is farther along than most others at his age, maturity wise. LOL
He said the same thing about Tazawa once upon a wet dream of his.
I actually like McAllister. I would be willing to give up Joba as long as Montero, and Hughes aren’t part of the deal.
And if they trade Austin Jackson for Halladay who will be the center fielder down the line for the yankees? We haven’t had a real good one since Bernie.
blake
He didn’t have the stamina to start after they implemented the Joba Rules 2.0 subsequent to his three brilliant starts following the AS break.
But even if he has to become a closer, it’s not like they have a better option to ultimately replace Mo.
If the Angels don’t get a negotiation window, why would they even trade for him? Certainly, the Jays would get a very inferior package.
Bowden and Tazawa looked very pedestrian when they were pitching in the Majors. Tazawa would take years to develop. The Sox pitching depth in a word, isn’t all that deep. It could look better in a year or two, but even their future closer Bard was hit hard and often.
I don’t think Joba, Hughes or Montero will be traded. Halladay himself did not start becoming Doc Halladay till he was 25 and neither Phil nor Joba are there yet. And the Yanks know that. And they’re just not trading Montero.
Betsy, exactly nobody knows what Halladay is thinking. To my knowledge all of this “Halladay wants to be a Yankee” talk is based off of him saying he would approve a trade to the Yankees and nothing more. He didnt say thats the only team he would approve a deal to. I think he would like to pitch for the Yankees but do I think he would go to the Angels or Red Sox if they traded for him and worked out an extension, probably so.
How do we even know the Jays want Joba? Maybe all they seem him as is a reliever.
Not all teams value guys the same.
Why don’t they trade the catchers at the lower rank like Gary Sanchez or Kyle H. Whatever his last name is ? LOL !
I’m sure the Jays might bite on that.
Has there any been confirmation that he’ll only approve an extension with the Yankees or something?
Nobody has any idea how much he values his Florida home. Just because Heyman said it, doesn’t make it true. Just like the millions of anonymous quotes that said there was no way CC would want to raise his family on the East Coast last year.
Phil, Halladay totally reinvented himself as a pitcher. He’s a very rare case that people keep drawing these comparsions about. Again, just because Halladay was able to figure it out has nothing to do with Joba or Hughes.
We know that Halladay wants to play for a winner and his buds with AJ, so…
Bankrupt, The jays have said that they like Joba, Hughes, Montero, and Jackson. So people are assuming that some combo of those players would get the deal done. The only 2 that I would include are Joba and Jackson.
Jeremy
You mean that article that stated 4 or 5 of the catchers in the Red Sox system, as if they might actually be worthy of scraping the gum off Tito’s cleats. My favorite is Tim Federowicz. P Gammo said Tim would be an everyday ML catcher some day. I’m not psychic, but I highly doubt it.
If you’re giving up Kennedy AND Romine or Jackson AND MCAllister AND Melancon,… you might as well just give up Joba and a lesser guy.
Joba isin’t that can’t miss that we give up 4 very good prospects instead.
Bard is good, but the rest of those Sox prospects are garbage especially Bowden. If the Sox have great pitching prospects then why do they keep bringing back grandpa Wakefield ? Their prospects are over hyped !
And what’s left of the Angels if they lose Lackey, Figgins, and Vlad? Halladay can’t compensate for that by himself.
m, trading Betemit for anything more than a bag of balls would have looked like magic. Getting Swisher for him was amazing. Swisher wasn’t that expensive so it wasn’t much of a salary dump. Didn’t they release Betemit? If so they pretty much got him for nothing.
—-
Rich, I think DRob looked pretty good for at least a set up role. His strike out rate is very good, and he is young. Joba is not going to handle replacing Mo.
Not that anyone can really replace Mo.
Can someone explain how the Sox have manipulated so many media outlets?
How is Kelly mentioned in the same breath as Montero?
How come Rosenthal wrote an article 2 weeks ago begging the Tigers to make Cabrera available because he fits the Sox so well?
Why did Heyman make them the favorites for Halladay?
How do the Sox get everyone in their favor?
Joe, that’s true………
Blake, of course……..but where there’s smoke, there’s fire. I believe Doc wants to play on the East Coast, in the AL and with a team that trains in Florida. If he’s willing to forgo free agency to play for a team that doesn’t meet most of his criteria, then he may very well sign an extension with the Angels (as an example). However, as you say – we can’t put ourselves in his shoes. Doc wants to win, but who’s to say he values winning right NOW, for a team he may not love, when the team he may prefer is out there in another year. The Yankees didn’t trade for Santana because they knew CC was out there and they could go all in for him – they knew it was a risk because maybe CC didn’t want to come to NY. Well, in the same way, Doc knows it’s a risk (he could get injured) to wait for FA (instead of securing a long-term deal)……but for him, it could very well be a risk worth taking (knowing that the team he wants to play for, whoever it is, is out there)
Figgins is as good as gone. I think Vlad is their best chance at retaining, which really doesn’t say much.
Personally, I think the Mariners are going to be the team in the West if Lackey is gone. (The Mariners are also supposed to be interested in him as well.)
Abdababdaserser
I love DRob (he’s at least equal to Bard). I’m just saying that if for some reason Joba doesn’t end up as a starter, he has continued to show that he has closer stuff.
It wasn’t meant to diss Mo, but I think you probably knew that.
Halladay to the Angels make no sense.
He essentially just replaces Lackey, and they probably have to give up some of their other ML pieces to get him. They lost Figgins and are going to likely lose Vlad. He probably won’t sign an extension there. Just not a good fit.
Philly doesn’t seem motivated to get Halladay considering they can’t keep him AND Lee.
Once again, this is going to come down to Yanks-Sox.
Oaktown, its all from ESPN. The other Saux network. They live there in the heart of RSN.
All the others just follow suit.
“Can someone explain how the Sox have manipulated so many media outlets?”
They don’t have to. They aren’t the big bad Yankees, so everything about them is viewed in the most favorable light possible. Facts, truth, and reality are irrelevant.
blake,
Every single pitcher finds himself at some point in his career, or doesn’t, but there’ve been many pitchers who came into their own after their first few years. And heck, Dazzy Vance wasn’t in anyone’s rotation till he was 30 and went to the Hall of Fame. We just have to be patient with our young pitchers, especially those that have flashed the brilliance that Phil and Joba have.
Jon Lester is the best pitcher that they developed so far. I would love to have a guy like Lester on the Yankees. Phil Hughes kind of reminds me of him personality wise. Lester has a little bit better stuff, but Hughes could be one of the best in the game because he has great stuff, command, and pitching knowledge.
Betsy, I think his age has something to do with it. I don’t think he wants to waste another year pitching for a bad team. He has narrowed it down to 4 teams that apparently he would be happy playing for. The Yankees are one of them but we have no reason to believe he favors them more than anyone else.
Kind of weird that they let the deal with Figgins leaked considering the guy he’s replacing still has one foot in the door.
Oaktown
You make it sound like there’s some big conspiracy. There is not. The Red Sox do not manipulate anyone or any media outlet. They do not have to.
Because these faux “professionals” dislike the Yankees, the best team to boast about is the Yankees’ fiercest rival.
I’m sure the Jays have scouted the Yankees system extensively. Of course they are going to say they like Montero, Hughes, Joba and Jackson……they’d be dumb to start off lower than that. I’m sure there are other players besides those four (not saying that one of those wouldn’t be traded) that they like – maybe not as much, but then to compensate, the Yanks would add an extra player to the package. We don’t know what the Jays are thinking, what Doc is thinking, what anyone is thinking, lol
If Halladay puts TOR in a bind, Anthopolous can always just return the favor to him by saying “fine… we’ll just take the 2 draft picks rather than sending you to the Yankees for B level guys”.
Remember… our division rival is not going to do us any favors. A lot of this deal is going to be PR as well. You think the Toronto ownership groups wants to hand his franchise star to the Yankees coming off a WS?
This trade may sound simple from our end, but not from Toronto’s.
Phil Hughes was a better minor league pitcher than Lester, who was derailed a bit in the majors by his triumph over cancer, while Phil was derailed by a bunch of freak injuries. I wouldn’t be surprised if Phil suddenly takes off as a starter this year.
I forgot to mention that as well. ESPN is in the heart of RSN also.
I mentioned the other day a splendid thought. Remember when Kenny Rosenthal mentioned to Jeter about not appearing in or winning the WS in …. years. I believe that bums like P Gammo and Kenny Rosy and Joe Buck and Tim McCarv actually attempt to plant seeds of doubt into NYY players.
It’s important to remember these guys are human (Tiger Woods is the best example). Everybody doubts themselves at one point or another (maybe not Jeter).
Hughes was always a better prospect than Lester because Hughes has great command and Lester’s was lacking (and Hughes is two years younger so he got that edge as well). The way the RS have fixed Lester’s command is impressive. I have to admit that.
I think Vlad is gone. The Angels are done ! They can beat the Sox if they have homefield advantage but they can’t beat the Yankees in the ALCS. That’s if they even win their division, and I don’t see them winning it.
And the AL Central is a joke.
I 100% believe in Hughes and I think Halladay would help him reach his potential that much faster.
Phil, for every Dazzy Vance out there, there are 1000 Jared Wrights that are super talented and show flashes of greatness that never amount to anything.
Rich, I didn’t think you were saying anything against Mo. I took it as he will eventually be retiring, as tough as that is to face.
No doubt that Joba would be a force in the pen. Trouble is would he be a flash in the pan? Look at how much more vulnerable Papelbon looks lately. He is almost all fastball. I see Joba becoming that. I know Papelbon has the shoulder problem, but could that be something that Joba also has lurking?
The other thing is there are other very good arms in the works that could possibly fill the closer role when the time comes.
I like Joba, its fun to watch him, even when he has his moments, when he is on and makes big outs he is a blast. If it were Halladay OR Joba though, I’d go with Halladay. Not only for his arm, but for what I think he can do to help the whole pitching staff. Plus, put CC and Halladay and to a lesser extent AJ in the rotation and the bullpen doesn’t get as exposed or over worked.
Jaret Wright got hurt, but he never had command even when he was a young brash headhunter.
Funny how during the Santana negotiations, it was Hughes/Lester that was being debated because Joba/Buchholz were considered untouchable and not even worth discussing
What a difference (2 years) make lol
There are a lot of variables that take a pitcher from being where Joba is to where Halladay is. Injuries and command issues are just two of them.
You know what I hate? Announcers and commentators from other sports who are Red Sox fans and start talking about the Sox during games.
I also cannot stand Sox celebrities like Jeremy Affleck and Maria mennnwhatever her name is
Blake, you could be right – we’ll have to wait and see. As to whether Doc prefers one team over another, I’m not sure. He’s this blank slate that we are all projecting our feelings onto, lol
Even the beautiful Erin Andrews grew up a Red Sox fan.
There is just no escaping it lol
One more thing then I’m going to bed. Do you guys remember the 2001 WS. I just watched the highlights on the MLB network a couple days ago. The Yankees were clearly the better team overall, but Arizona had 2 stud pitchers and that made all the difference in the world.
Now, imagine 2 pitchers of that quality on a team with the Yankee’s offense and Rivera closing the door. Thats pretty close to what you’d have with CC and Halladay atop the rotation. Still think thats not worth giving up Joba for?
Killa Cali, I don’t think Halladay will be that upset if he isn’t dealt. He knows FA is coming. Its a bigger loss for the Jays, no help for at least 4 years rather than help for their club immediately or in a years time, and with players who have already shown they are better than just A level players.
Dealing in spite, as you are suggesting the Jays will do, only ends up hurting them more. And you can bet that story WILL come out.
Except the Yankees were leading that WS with the ball in Mo’s hands. Stuff happens.
I really don’t think Buchholz or Kelly are as untouchable as people think they are. Theo is probably just making it appear that way so it looks like they sacrificed a lot, if and when they do.
Yeah Lester’s command was a issue at times. But they did a good job with him.
Rich, that series would have been a sweep or over in 5 games without Johnson and Schilling. The only games they won those 2 started.
Does anyone know if Toronto ownership has any Yankee haters in it? We know some front offices, like Florida, Baltimore, etc. do we know if Toronto does?
Jaret Wright may have been a bit of a science experiment but he never had control like Hughes and Joba have shown. I used Dazzy, but there are tons of pitchers who were late bloomers. Sandy Koufax was around for 5 years before he became Sandy Koufax. Ron Guidry wasn’t Gator till he was 26 or 27. Warren Spahn didn’t hit till his late 20′s. And these are just some of the most famous examples. Hughes and Joba have done well for their ages so far, and that there are plenty of reasons to believe they’ll get better. The Yanks are certainly doing what they can to protect their health.
Abda: Disagree that Joba has always been lesser valued than Hughes. Cash, Reggie, et al, went to see Joba pitch in AA and Cash called Torre to tell him that Joba was better than Hughes. Joba was fast-tracked, promoted to AAA for about 2 weeks and then he was in the Yankees bp at the end of 2007. He was amazing. He was in the 2008 rotation until injured and returned to the pen. Where was Phil?
In 2009 ST Hughes was excellent and Joba was mediocre. Joba was still returned to the rotation while Phil was returned to AAA. He returned when Wang’s injuries prohibited him from further pitching. Phil did well, so did Joba. But when it came to who goes where, Phil did not want to go back to AAA and was put in the pen.
In this short history it appears that it was Joba who had the support of management. Only when the 2009 Joba Rules became unwieldly did Joba began to falter and Phil blossomed in the bp. However, it was Joba that Girardi went with in the WS out of the bp instead of Hughes.
As I have said before, Phil has had many opportunities to develop – Joba needs the same amount of opportunities. Recall that Joba has a miniscule amount of IP in the minors compared to others who had a large number. Pettitte and Santana for two.
Both will eventually head the roster and give the Yankees fans many wins in the rotation. And they are home grown.
When the “core” finally retires, Joba and Phil will be strong members of the rotation and keep that dynasty rolling.
blake, the other thing about the 2001 series was Mo was very un-Mo like. The Yankees should have won, it was a tough series, but if Mo pitched like his normal self the champagne would have been flowing for the Yanks.
I agree though, a CC and Halladay AND AJ combo would be mowing through most lineups. Add in Andy or even possibly Hughes… wow. The Yanks could rest half the bats and still have a good shot at winning.
Cashman has at least one meeting with a coveted free agent already in his plans. He will get together with his close friend Kevin Towers, the former San Diego general manager who will be in Indianapolis, looking for work as an adviser. Towers, who would benefit any front office, is the subject of a profile to run in Sunday’s New York Times.
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....game-plan/
Blake, Bingo !!!! Jared Wright could be the perfect comparison to Joba Wright, except Jared was groomed to be a MLB pitcher and he had heart….However the physical & arm comparisons are clearly right on…..Doc Halladay has waited for what must have seemed like an eternity to get freedom….And now he’s on the brink of calling his own shots……He’s looking at this as his Free Agency a year before emancipation….As SJ and many here have pointed out, he’s driving the bus right now…..If he is moved the winter, you can make book on the fact that it’s pretty much where he was considering to begin with……The Jays & The Angels maybe fishing together off the Newport Beach coast, that doesn’t mean that Doc is going to take the bait…
“Rich, that series would have been a sweep or over in 5 games without Johnson and Schilling. The only games they won those 2 started.”
Here’s what the D’back gave up for Schilling:
Omar Daal, Nelson Figueroa, Travis Lee and Vicente Padilla.
Halladay would be nice, but I don’t want to overpay.
Why would you grow up a Sox fan back in the day. They sucked ! I could understand if you grew up in New England and became a Sox fan though I grew up in C.T. and became a Yankee fan because of my parents and the fact that my father lived in New York city.
But I swear that majority of these Sox fans even in the media are badwagon fans because I never saw them until 2004.
Abdababdaserser, my argument was the the 2001 Dbacks weren’t exactly a great team. They had 2 great starting pitchers and that allowed them to compete in and win the WS. If you put 2 pitchers of that caliber on a good team like the Yankees then its game over. I know the Yankees should have won but thats not my point. The point is that it wouldn’t have even been a series without Schilling and Johnson, and that there is no replacement for dominant starting pitching. Its the most important thing in baseball and when you have a chance to get it you need to jump at the opportunity.
And just like Jaret Wright, Joba is eating himself out of the starting rotation.
The fact that he shwoed up to camp out of shape is a hgue red flag. Normally, young guys coming off an injury shortened season ill be chomping at the bit to get in shape and get ready for ST. Joba approached it like he didn’t even care.
You guys are right. There is no escaping it. Watching other sports, they mention the Red Sox, like the Sox are a model franchise or something. Dave O’Brien mentioned the Red Sox repeatedly during the coverage of the 2006 World Cup. He singlehandedly ruined the WC experience that year.
Troy Aikman has been revealed as a Sox fan.
Even the former agent of Chapman, was a Red Sox fan and made an active effort to convert Chapman to being a fan of his teams.
New TV Show “Mercy”, the lead actress named Taylor Schilling (yes, Schilling) is a Red Sox fan.
Red Sox fans are recruits for more Red Sox fans.
The best part is when media members or fans insult the Denzels or Sandlers or Nicholsons for being fairweather fans.
Dan
J.P. Riccardi was a Yankee hater and still is one. He is no longer the GM but I know he was a Yankee hater, and I believe he grew up in Boston.
Rich, except Padilla those are nobody’s now but they could have been good prospects at the time. Again, most prospects don’t pan out which is why putting all of your stock in them is unwise. We don’t even know what the market is for Halladay, so until the Jays come out and say its Hughes and Montero or no deal then keep an open mind.
Jay-z >>> Any of the Sox celebrity fanboys.
I hope the Sox somehow make it to the ALCS next year so the Yankees can deliver a beat down.
So if we trade Joba, who is going to be our heir apparant to Mariano? You guys think MO is going to be doing this forveer? Hell, he could fall off a cliff next year. At his age, you never know.
Don’t trade our future closer
Rivera is one of a kind. There will never be another. Closers like Joba probably would be are a dime a dozen.
JeterJobaCanoFan2010, Hughes came up and was brought up early. He was dominating and pitching a shutout in Texas and injured his hamstring. Then he injured his ankle during rehab. All before Joba was even known about by 95% of the fans.
Joba was thought highly of, but no where near what they thought of Hughes. He was Phil Phranchise from almost the day he was drafted. Joba was the more raw talent that they weren’t sure they would get full benefit out of.
Obviously from your name, you are a Joba fan, but Hughes was over shadowed by Jobamania and that was mainly because he got hurt two seasons in a row. Hughes was first up, and the one most clubs were pining for in every single deal that Cashman worked on. Joba was not, so it wasn’t even just in the Yankees that he was thought of as the better prospect, but across the league. Joba was great coming out of the pen, no doubt, but then again we saw Kennedy being dominating and very polished at that time as well. The Yankee scouts felt that Kennedy was the most finished of all three of them.
Joba took the city by storm when he came up. Unhittable for that period of time. Reminds me of Buchholz when he first came up.
I want to go up to some of these famous Sox “fans” or announcers or commentators… and ask them to name their favorite Red Sox before 2000.
Where do these Sox fans come from? Were they going to Fenway for the 86 years from 1918 to 2004 when they were a laughingstock?
People talk about the Yankee bandwagon, it never multiplied the way this Sox bandwagon did post 04. What gives?
Hoo Ha! Pat M. You watching this Laker game? Kobe dagger at the buzzer.
J.P. Ricciardi was a minor league coach for the Yanks a long time ago.
blake, don’t undervalue Joba as a closer. He would be like Papelbon, which is not a dime a dozen. Its a rare enough talent, but not unprecedented.
blake
Unlike Joba, who is already a somebody.
I think you explained it pretty well, Oaktown.
What gives? There are more fairweather fans of the Sox than Yanks.
_____
Via 38pitches.com
“If you’re still pitching, do you want Pedroia at shortstop or second base?”
I don’t care. The one thing you know about Pedey is Pedey’s going to catch the ball. And if I’m going to give up a little bit of range at shortstop, which I might do, and I’m not saying I would, because I know Pedey’s on a program this winter to drop a lot of weight and create some more range, more flexibility, and all things that go with that – the guy could probably be a Gold Glove shortstop. I mean, he’s that good.
“Can he create arm strength to make the throw?”
Listen, David Eckstein played short for what, 10 years, and David Eckstein and Shonda could throw somewhat similar. And I loved him. It’s about making accurate throws probably as much if not more than making strong throws. And Dustin could play shortstop in the big leagues. I would argue he’d be up in the top four or five of all the defensive veterans at the end of the year.
____
Does Curt realize that he is no longer on the Sox? Does he realize that he played for and won WS with other team(s)?
Oaktown, its the story of the lovable losers. They finally win and it becomes fashionable to be “long time fans”.
If you think all Joba is is a closer, then trade him.
We can always trade for Takashi Saito or someone to close if MO can’t do it anymore.
If you can trade a closer for the best pitcher in baseball, you do it.
How do you know he’d be like Papelbon. Thats a big assumption. Even if it were true, thats still not as valuable as a #1 starter.
Right now, Linceum is the best pitcher in baseball.
And closer would only be the fallback position for Joba.
It’s too soon to decide that about Joba, so you don’t trade him.
Pedroia had been a SS, and they moved him to 2nd because they didn’t think he could do the job.
Curt is Curt. He just wants the RSN to remember him.
When the Cubs finally win something, it is going to be just as bad.
Obviously they are not our rival, but the washing that will go in will be insufferable.
Rich, What does Lincecum have to do with anything?
King James: Regarding Joba’s faults – - get real. He is not a kid. I don’t consider anyone who just turned 24 a kid. Remember that his home life has not been that of someone who grew up in So. Calif with a semi-silver spoon in his mouth.
Joba has come a long way with the help and love of his father to make it to the Bigs, much less to a starter on a storied team as the Yankees at age 22. How many hundreds of thousands of youngsters who have played little league, HS and college sports can make that claim.
Just think about it. Joba has many positives that we are all aware of. No two pitchers (or players) have the same mind set and upbringing. Compare them by ability not personal lives.
Dan, your point is well taken…..Hughes and Joba took 2 different paths after the 2008 season….Hughes went to Arizona, pitched in the Fall League and stayed there and worked out at the Atheletes Performance Center on his own nickle…..Came to camp and continued to bust it…When he was called up in April to meet a Yankee team that was floundering in Detroit, all that work paid off as he shutout a very heavy hitting Tiger team through 6 innings…Of course there was his melt down in Baltimore, but he bounced back…..The point is, he has the drive, the commitment and the heart to be a MLB Pitcher…..The question is, does Joba still have that drive….Too much to soon for Joba and I think he lost his way….My issue with him is his lack of accountability after he loses his cookies start after start……I would like to think he comes to Tampa in late January with Jeter and company and get prepared for 2010….
blake, Joba was very much like Papelbon when he was pitching in relief. That’s all I was saying. Paps is one of the better closers in the league.
I wasn’t saying its decided that is all Joba is. I don’t think that has been decided yet.
Oaktown
Don’t worry. All the Yankees have to do is beat the Sox down in the regular season and the playoffs for a good number of years and the bandwagon Sox fans will be running with their tails between their legs.
Thats the thing, nobody knows what Joba is and we have been watching him for 3 years. They have put all this energy into making him a starter but in the back of their minds they have to be thinking the obvious, that he looks better out of the bullpen.
This game doesn’t always offer 2nd chances… Joba might have left a bad enough taste in the Yankees FOs mouth’s that they decide to move him for Doc. His DUI followed by his lack of conditioning… not good signs.
If not, next year is judgment day for him. He better come into camp in shape and show that he is committed.
King James: Regarding Joba’s faults – – get real. He is not a kid. I don’t consider anyone who just turned 24 a kid.
_______________
Who is King James? Other than the bible version written in his name, anyway. I’ve looked through the posts and don’t see anyone calling themselves that.
Anyway, to the point, you must be young yourself. 24 is a kid. Barely started in life at that age, and even people who are 30 something will refer to young men at the age of 24 as kids. They usually are, immature, poor judgments, stubborn, know-it-all.
Can we stop treating the DUI Joba got like some hideous crime? He made a mistake that I’m sure all 23 yr old kids make. He had a little too much and got behind the wheel… it happens.
Are the Giants going to trade Lincecum because he smoked pot last month?
Going to bed. CC + Halladay +AJ = #28, #29……
Cubs fans will be different if the day ever comes that they win something. They’ve had a vastly better sense of humor about their misfortunes than the Sox had about their 86 year run of abject futility. So they’ll take it a little better and not forget where they came from should they ever win the WS.
You guys know how the DUI happened, right?
It was because, IIRC, he was a club or strip joint or bar or something like that and a Red Sox fan started harassing him, forcing him to leave.
M, Ihave the Lakers on the over / under for a Benji..The magic number is 65 wins….Let’s see how they do once they hit the road for awhile….They are the NBA’ best team, they’re loaded and built for the Playoffs…..
Abda: you did not hit my points about how Joba was used versus Phil during 2007 and 2008. From another blog, I realized there was another pitcher named Phil Hughes whom I had never heard of. Some kept saying that they believed in Hughes still altho Joba was exciting. Phil has never generated the press and fans as Joba has.
Joba has had 2 successful years as a pitcher in the major leagues as a young pitcher. Phil has had one. This year in the bullpen. And I still say that Joe showed TRUST in Joba to pitch him over Hughes who had excelled in the bp most of the season. Why was that?
Joba’s name NEVER came up in any trade talk until 2009. Phil was always the name who came up and someone has noted that in these posts. Right, what a difference one year makes.
Because of the press and strong comments from Cashman about Joba’s future last year, I took the name Joba2bAce on another board and changed it after taking crap from non-Joba fans. Oh, yeah, Cashman had high hopes for Joba.
CR,
That is correct. One of the guys at the strip club said something like, “If you played for a real team like the Red Sox, you would still be playing and wouldn’t be here right now”.
On the one hand, I hate the Celtics and want them to lose every game. On the other hand, I want the Cavs to be knocked out early so it ticks off LeBron so maybe he comes here after another disappointing playoff exit
hmm….
I really don’t want to see the Celtics win and hear Dan Shulman call playoff games at “the Garden”.
blake
Joe said: If you can trade a closer for the best pitcher in baseball, you do it.
__
I think it’s Linceum.
Dan
LOL. I hope that “the Garden” was a joke.
Tough call, but I could not stand to see the Celts get another NBA tital because of being handed KG.
What’s funny about thier 2008 NBA Finals broadcast team is:
Mike Breen, Mark Jackson, Jeff Van Gundy
They all had/have ties to the Knicks, and all they did was stinksniff the Celtics the whole time.
The day I ever hear a Red Sox fan commentator or media member have something positive to say about any New York team is the day pigs fly.
Some Red Sox fans are the worse. They always talk about the Yankees being hated but they don’t see that the majority of fans think they are the worst fans in baseball.
I know that the balance of power has shifted and the Sox and their fans are going to be in trouble for the next couple of years. I hope John Henry’s Hedge fund will collapse so he sells the team to some loser owner.
JeterJobaCano Fan……And what happens to you & your extensively creative name if Joba is traded to Toronto….
Dan: this is my night for defending Joba. Do you know Joba personally to say that he doesn’t care? Do you know his eating habits? Do you know that Joba was 280 during college? He has had a weight problem all his young life. Is he the only pitcher in MLB that has carried extra weight around his waist?
Other questions: do you know that Joba is not the first professional player to receive a DUI? Do you know about Joba’s home background?
I am not exonerating him for his legal problems or for that of his mother who has not been part of his upbringing since he was a young boy. If you know anything at all about Joba you know that he was raised by his father.
You can not BELIEVE the CRAP and shear ugliness of the posts of Nebraska people during that time. Seventy-five percent of it was racial and unbelievable shameful in these enlightened years. Just plain ugly, ugly, ugly. And don’t you think Joba was aware of it? How could he not be.
I am a STRONG advocate for Joba and will always be.
Abda – - I will be 72 in 2 weeks. Everyone is young to me. But I still feel that 24 is not a kid but a young man. So sue me.
Hughes has always had all the advantages…and this year perhaps the most important…a mentor on the team, a canny veteran who put it all on the line for Young Master Philip and gave him the inspiration needed to take his game to the next level…I speak of Johnny Damon, who opened his heart to Hughes and gave him hope.
Who will do that for Joba?? Who will open his heart to Joba and help him be the pitcher he can be…and be the Yankee he can be???
Pat M:
If and WHEN JOBA is traded to Toronto I will make that change accordingly, thank you. I will always be a fan of Jeter and Cano no matter what team Joba is on. Satisfied.
Your posts are usually very well thought out and intelligent. Why sink to this level.
If the Yankees say they can spend as much money as last year, there’s no reason for Damon, Matsui, or Pettitte to take less. None of them want to go anywhere else, and based on what Bobby Abreu and Chone Figgins are getting, they won’t get paid as much as they did last year going to another team.
Some of the media take it upon themselves to negotiate for agents and teams (Peter Gammons for the Red Sox, whats his name for Scot Boras). Others get fed information from GMs and agents and report it because that’s the only information they have to report.
According to Cot’s Baseball Contracts, the Yankees have over $170 million committed to 12 players including Kei Igawa, Juan Miranda, and Damaso Marte. They aren’t going to fill out the 15 remaining spots on the 25 man roster with $15 million.
Thank you Nick in San Francisco for your comments that Phil has had all the advantages. No one has voiced that in the manner you did. As a card-carrying Joba fan, I dislike all the nasty posts about him. In our culture, I would be known as Joba’s auntie.
Hughes is going to break out next year. I just know it.
The guy is going to be a really good pitcher like Jon Lester.
Nick in SF, That almost brought a tear to my eye….I had hoped that Chamberlain would have the 2010 season to get things fixed…..However, you have A Roy Halladay virtually coming out a year early and can be had for the right price….Is Joba in that equation, if he is, he’s gone….As for his weight issues, he’s a professional baseball pitcher who gets paid to perform to thebest of his abilities….That means staying in the best of condition possible……Trust me, that window does not stay open very long………
snort
I think the only reason that Joba is in the “equation” is because of fatuous media reports.
As I have posted before, nothing like a Joba denominated asset (ditto for Hughes and Montero) was traded for Santana or Lee. There is no logical reason that Halladay should cost more than they did (and Lee had a year and half of a very reasonable contract and was traded in season, when teams get desperate).
So I think the premise of the discussion is false.
If the Jays don’t want to be real, they can trade Halladay to the RS for all I care. The Yankees need to show the resolve they demonstrated in the Santana talks.
Damon called Hughes out for falling apart, I think against the Orioles. Nick in SF was being sarcastic.
Phil Hughes has the potential to be a really good starting pitcher. He’s been the pride of the Yankees system for years now. HAVING SAID THAT, Joba Chamberlain been MUCH more successful in the majors, both as a starter and a reliever, and he’s finally stretched out to be a starter for a full season.
People that like Hughes more than Joba don’t base their opinions on their major league success. They base it on what they have read about Chamberlain’s attitude and work ethic from writers that probably don’t know what they are talking about.
I refer all to the great movie ” A Bronx Tale “…There is a great line about wasting talent…..That to me is Joba Chamberlain in 2009….When Wang went down, the club looked to Joba to pick Wang & the club up & he didn’t due to what is precieved as not being committed…..Reasons are much different than excuses, and that’s all we heard ….Last season Hughes was just about driven out of town here, and suddenly he’s loved again…..I give Joba a pass for 2009..He hasd a child, his was popped for poor judgement, his family issues , I can see the distractions…However he’s a MLB pitcher for the NY Yankees….I hope he’s in Tampa come January in shape and committed to the next step…..JobaJeterCanoFan, I’m very sorry if I came off like a hump…..
That’s a pretty broad paintbrush you got there.
When Joba was taking the league by storm, and posing for pictures as the “Next” for ESPN mag Phil was quietly doing his thing. Before Phil was derailed by injuries he was showing that he had potential to be a very good starter.
I hope that Phil progresses well, and continues on the trajectory that has been interrupted by injuries, rookie struggles, and circumstances beyond his control.
Phil seems to be a good kid, and rooting for him to succeed comes easy. How one feels about him doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the perceptions of other young pitchers in the organization.
This came from lo-hud last year. Apologies I didn’t save the posters name………
. . .”Effective relievers can be signed and developed. Potential aces come out of farm systems once every five years, or more.”
Pat M. – no problem. Thanks.
m, although couched in well-written language I still read that Phil can do no wrong. Those strong Phil devotees will still bad-mouth Joba. And usually not well written.
Good night all!
Payroll Budget is probably: 185 Million; 185 Million + Roy Halladay
“Phil seems to be a good kid, and rooting for him to succeed comes easy. How one feels about him doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the perceptions of other young pitchers in the organization.”
I said “people that like Hughes more than Joba.” How can the “perceptions” of Joba not affect the decision to like Hughes more than Joba?
“When Joba was taking the league by storm, and posing for pictures as the “Next” for ESPN mag Phil was quietly doing his thing. Before Phil was derailed by injuries he was showing that he had potential to be a very good starter.”
What “thing” was Hughes doing? What success does he have on the major league level that even compares to what Joba has done?
“I hope that Phil progresses well, and continues on the trajectory that has been interrupted by injuries, rookie struggles, and circumstances beyond his control.”
I hope he keeps working towards being the front of the rotation starter he can be too. HAVING SAID THAT, injuries, rookie struggles, and circumstances beyond his control (innings limits being switched from a starter to a reliever a few times) have affected Joba just as much. The difference is that Joba has had MUCH more success than Hughes on a major league level.
Hughes had much more success than Joba in the minors, but they came to the Yankees under completely different circumstances, and Hughes actually got some time in the system. Also, Hughes doesn’t use the same pitches in the majors that he used to dominate the minors. He should still have the same control that was his best attribute as a prospect, but he’s throwing different pitches.
And, for the record, I definitely think that Hughes can be a front of the rotation type of starter. But, there are way too many people who think that Hughes is more of a sure thing when Joba has had more success to this point.
no 27, beyond his talent, Phil Hughes has dedicated his life to being a successful MLB Pitcher….As for your earlier post, trust me, I forgot more about the game than most of these so called hack sportswriters….I hardly take with any great sense of seriousiness what some person who graduated at Putnam Valley College is writing about baseball…..Clubhouse access is the only perk, and even then it’s mostly National Enquire quality narration….There still are some knowledgeable keyboard clackers, but they are a rare breed indeed
i think as long as the payroll is lower in 2010 than 2009 its ok
if it is 199 i think everybody is happy
NO27…One other point, when I saw him pitch in July in Anaheim upclose, he reminded me of a 2003 Davis Wells in regards to his physical appearence….As he reached 20 pitches in an inning , he was sucking for air, and when that total reached 25 , he was gassed…..I didn’t some scribe to tell me to what I was watching,it was pretty clear…..
frankly, i just hope that both hughes and chamberlain are on the team in 2010. i totally trust in girardi and cashman to maximize their productivity and forget all the past bs from the media and the fans. and, i say no to trading for halladay and yes to prospect hugging (at least until 7/31/2010
).
“Joe said: If you can trade a closer for the best pitcher in baseball, you do it.
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I think it’s Linceum.”
You could argue that right now he is. However, I feel like he’s a pretty big injury risk moving forward and he has pitched in the worst offensive division in baseball. If I had to pick a pitcher from 2010 on it would be Felix Hernandez and if I had to pick one for the next 3 or 4 years then Halladay will likely be as good as any.
If that package Heyman is reports is true then I dont want Halladay. Its going to cost us a combination of a young studs, not just any studs but THE studs, and our most highly regarded prospects.
We have all seen this before…
I want to apologize to everyone for that last comment. I just woke up cannot see and haven’t had my coffee yet. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having to listen to what I just said. I award myself no points and may god have mercy on my soul.
maybe we should ask this girl – she seems to know a hell of a lot about the yankees for a 2 year old!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXINDABPkqg
Yankees number one.