Payroll reduction “not a hard ceiling”
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 05, 2009 
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The consensus remains that the Yankees want to cut payroll this winter, but Buster Olney tweeted last night that the number is between $190 million and $200 million, not quite as low as early estimates of $185 million.
Olney also notes — and this pretty much goes without saying — that the number is “not a hard ceiling.”
One thing about this period of rumors and speculation, very few things are set in stone. Marco Scutaro is going to Boston. Placido Polanco is going to Philadelphia. Billy Wagner is going to Atlanta. But most everything else remains up in the air, somewhere between educated guesswork and wild guesswork.
The market will have to develop before we know anything for certain. Let’s all hope that begins to happen at next week’s Winter Meetings.
Payroll dropping, probably not by much according to the following:
“The Yankees’ payroll should drop from the roughly $206 million it was last season, the insider said, but probably not by much. The Yankees have about $45 million coming off the books with their own free agents, though they are due to pay roughly $15 million in raises to other players. So if they add several pieces, they’ll likely be close to their 2009 figure.
One thing Cashman made clear was that the Yankees are not set on just one road map for their winter. He noted that he’ll “start trying to execute various game plans in putting the 2010 team together.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....radar.html
I also read a direct quote from Randy Levine in some other paper in which he indicated that this offseason’s plan/payroll budget could be adjusted if new circumstances come up like what happended last year with Teix.
This is just a guess, based on all those rumors, but the Yankees will focus first on two starting pitchers, Pettitte being first.
Toronto wants a major league ready position player for Halladay, and need an OF’er and SS. We could accomodate them with players like Swisher, Cabrera, Gardner or Pena, one of which with minor league pitching could be included in the deal. IMO the Yankees will look at trading for Halladay another priority. It could possibly not involve an extension
The other potential FA young starters all have ??? marks:
Bedard, Harden, Duscherer, Wang, Sheets.
Some other FA pitchers like Wolf, Davis, Marquis, Piniero, I ??? their ability to pitch in the AL east.
The bench and relief staff will be low priorities, until they see if Pettitte and Halladay or another FA pitcher is inked as I doubt they go with both Hughes and Joba in starting rotation.
LF, and DH in that order will be the next two priorities.
All of this will be done while Cashman is juggling all concerns at once, speaking on two cell phones at the same time!!!!!
Just an opinion after digesting all the rumors out there.
Welcome your thoughts!
As I wrote all along the $ 185 Million figure is make believe.
And they do not have $ 15 Million in raises coming unless you count CC in which is SALARY goes up $ 9 M but he will be paid the exact same amount of money.
I still expect one major acquisition, likely a starting pitcher and a smattering of smaller ones in terms of long term commitments. I don’t think there’s any chance that they will go into 2010 with a bench that only has younger players and three young guys in the rotation.
Would be surprised to see a one year deal for Cameron or Randy Winn as a way of adding defense and flexibility to the OF. One year with a vesting option for Damon or Matsui but not both leaving plenty of money for Halladay, Lackey or another significant pitching addition.
crawdaddy-
Thanks for the link. I just read it.
Raises for Swisher, Jeter and Cano total 6.5M, I believe. Cabrera, Bruney, Gaudin, Mitre, Wang are arbitration eligible, and at this point, depending on what trades, FA’s are signed they won’t tender most of them except Cabrera, and maybe Gaudin and Bruney.
IMO, Cashman was probably told to keep the payroll just south of 200M, and would have extra money available if they are in the pennant race and need a midseason pickup at the July trading deadline.
I believe that they will start with Joba and Phil in the rotation. Damon is not coming back cause he feels he is owed two or three years at 14 million each, yankees not going there. Matsui will stay for less money. Slide melky to left and resign Andy. Give Kennedy a chance at making the rotation. Bruney should be better once he is totally healthy which he wasn’t last year. Wang you let go. This will keep playroll at around 190.
I believe that they will start with Joba and Phil in the rotation. Damon is not coming back cause he feels he is owed two or three years at 14 million each, yankees not going there. Matsui will stay for less money. Slide melky to left and resign Andy. Give Kennedy a chance at making the rotation. Bruney should be better once he is totally healthy which he wasn’t last year. Wang you let go. This will keep playroll at around 190.
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Really do not think both Joba and Hughes plus giving Kennedy a possible spot in the rotation will insure a playoff spot.
IMO they want an answer soon from Pettitte, and will trade for or sign another dependable/180-200 inning pitcher.
Ok, now that we’ve got that budget thingie out of the way, lets start throwing some money around.
how is ben sheets’ arm? any word on this? he always had a high ceiling.
Good bye Aroldis Chapman
Chad, I’m glad to see you admit that you don’t usually like to compare the payrolls of teams, but three straight posts about the Yankee payroll? For the love of God, don’t get all Lupica on us!!!
Thanks. I’m looking forward to the meetings, after which I’m sure all of your posts will be about player movement and the roster.
Good bye Aroldis Chapman
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There are some baseball people who think that Noel Arguelles would be a better investment. Arguelles’ upside isn’t as big as Chapman’s, but his downside isn’t as low.
Besides, if Chapman makes it big then we can get him when his contract (with another team) expires.
Cervelli as a backup would save money there. He did a great job last year. We will need a 4th outfield, could trade Kennedy or Igawa for one. But I really like Kennedy for the future. He has pitched well in the Majors but was a head case but it looks like he fixed that up in the minors. He was pitching great before the surgery aand now is back at pitching well. Have to remember that next year 36 million comes off the payroll but it’s Jeter and Mo. I am sure they will resign both at higher rates. Therefore if you are going to make some kind of dent in the payroll, it has to be this year.
Chone Figgins to M’s almost a done deal
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ggins.html
O/T
Too funny. Another mistress has come forward. That brings he number up to 4, but you know the number must be much, much higher.
http://www.nydailynews.com/gos.....eport.html
Looks like Cheetah has a SERIOUS problem with sex addiction. For his own good, and for his children’s sake, I hope he checks into a rehab clinic. People laugh it off, but being addicted to sex with multiple partners is no different than an addiction to drugs and alcohol.
Tubby has like 20 blog posts about Scutaro.
Calm down, buddy, he’s not that great.
Strange Figgins would choose Seattle and so quickly. Certainly tightens up that division a bit.
I expect the Yanks to address the rotation rather quickly but lay low and let the prices fall on most everything else. I’m not opposed to giving Miranda a shot and finding a versatile fourth OF who can improve the bench.
Gaudin is a pretty nice trade piece at reasonable dollars that could be included in a Halladay or other deal to upgrade the rotation.
I don’t know what Joba or Phil will become, but for some reason, I’m leaning toward keeping Phil because over the long term I think he will be a better starter, as well as that I think Joba is destined for the bullpen.
I regards to the age of Doc, it really doesn’t concern me, he seems like a guy dedicated to his craft and will age fine.
Lastly, a staff headed by CC and Doc, with AJ as a No. 3 and Andy as their No. 4, could not be matched by anyone in baseball.
Just imagine the days that CC and Doc pitch…it would almost be like a day off for the bullpen, allowing the Yankees could go with less relievers, a larger bench.
Beyond Halladay, I think the Yankees have some trade ideas in mind for an OF in order to get younger.
As for Chapman, as with other players, their level of interest will be determined by how much money he wants.
Gaudin is a pretty nice trade piece at reasonable dollars that could be included in a Halladay or other deal to upgrade the rotation.
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Agree with your comments. In regards to Gaudin, the other team would have to be willing to take on an arbitration eligible pitcher.
Yankee Trader,
In your scenario, the Yankees would acquire Halladay for something like Jackson, Pena + Kennedy/McAllister.
The rotation would be CC, Doc, AJ, Andy and Joba/Hughes.
What happens to Joba or Hughes?
To the pen to start the year? To AAA?
Gaudin would be signed for a year before any trade so that matters not. I agree that McAllister and Austin Jackson starts a very attractive package for Halladay or someone else. I’d rather keep Jackson and offer Nunez and Romine to go with a pitcher. Add a lower level arm if you need to.
would be great to see Phil/Joba battle for # 5 starter, 8th inning guy. Either way the Bobmers would be much better on the mound opening 2010 than they were in April of ’09
In your scenario, the Yankees would acquire Halladay for something like Jackson, Pena + Kennedy/McAllister.
The rotation would be CC, Doc, AJ, Andy and Joba/Hughes.
What happens to Joba or Hughes?
To the pen to start the year? To AAA?
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Pettitte will be asked to make up his mind and sign.
All I said was Toronto “wants and needs major league ready players”- outfielder and SS, so would either Swisher, Cabrera, Gardner, or Pena be part of a Halladay trade?
Now if the Yanks did get Pettitte and Halladay to go along with CC and AJ they have 4 180-220 inning pitchers. Put Hughes as 5th starter and if the team hasn’t included Joba in that or another trade, let him get in shape first and then we’ll see where he gets placed.
Multiple blog posts about payroll are certainly appropriate since that is the Yankees news of the day. Look at all the comments in response – it is a compelling topic for most Yankees fans, even knowing it is not within their control, and even knowing that the 185 mil number was more than likely not set in stone.
Whatever the ending payroll dollar figure is, it’s always best to have that “soft” ceiling, especially in this economy. For one thing, it helps to keep things in a certain perspective, and the message is certainly clear that the Yankees do not have an bottomless cash well.
“All I said was Toronto “wants and needs major league ready players”- outfielder and SS, so would either Swisher, Cabrera, Gardner, or Pena be part of a Halladay trade?”
Or the Yankees could trade one of those players (or for example, McAllister) for a position player that Toronto wants.
Put Hughes as 5th starter and if the team hasn’t included Joba in that or another trade, let him get in shape first and then we’ll see where he gets placed.
—
So, are you saying Joba will be to out-of-shape and need to start the year in the pen or AAA?
Put Hughes as 5th starter and if the team hasn’t included Joba in that or another trade, let him get in shape first and then we’ll see where he gets placed.
—
So, are you saying Joba will be to out-of-shape and need to start the year in the pen or AAA?
Included are AJAX’ minor league numbers. Because of the lack of power, but mainly his high strikeout to base on ball ratios, he doesn’t look major league ready.
http://www.baseball-reference......ckso001aus
Bret-
Now come on, don’t put words in my mouth—AAAAhhh!!!
Joba needs to come to camp in shape and compete for a job as a starter. As far as AAA, another team, starter, reliever, I’ll leave that up to Cashman and Girardi!
I wasn’t putting words in your mouth. I was asking you to question the possible outcomes of your scenario.
Or the Yankees could trade one of those players (or for example, McAllister) for a position player that Toronto wants.
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Rich- good idea. A three way. A Tiger deal!!!!!LOL
A week from today, Cashman will have completed at least one transaction and the naysayers will be out in force saying this guy or that guy should not have been included in a deal.
One of either Damon or Matsui will be locked up soon.
From the last thread:
Pat M.
I refer all to the great movie ” A Bronx Tale “…There is a great line about wasting talent…..That to me is Joba Chamberlain in 2009…
__
I strongly disagree. I think Joba’s 2009 season was about his character strength. He had to adjust to being stretched out so that he would be on the path to throw 200 ML IP in 2010, and he had to do it with diminished arm strength as a result of the shoulder injury.
That not only affected the velo on his FB, but it also reduced the tilt on his slider.
So it’s not unreasonable that he struggled. Actually, as a result of his twin challenges, I think the expectations were too high.
The development of some of the best starters in the game has not always been linear.
I think it’s quite likely that Joba will have bounce back season in 2010.
Bret-
It was clear that Joba lacked command, velocity, and questioned the catcher’s calls as a starter. Was that the result of his prior season shoulder injury, being out of shape, stubborness??
IMO Hughes has more command, velocity, assortment of better pitches, and makeup- if he retains all that as a starter it would be reasonable to let Joba and him compete for a spot in the rotation if we only end up with one spot open, and let the other go back to the bullpen.
I think Matsui more likely than Damon.
I think Joba has shown more flashes of brilliance and domination than Phil and I suspect the organization values him more than Hughes.
The Yankees, mainly Jeter and A-Rod in particular, since they make the news, are certainly busy this offseason. Hope they come into camp in shape!!
Didn’t Matsui have further minor knee surgery?
Has A-Rod had a follow-up MRI on his hip?
Stan
December 5th, 2009 at 10:41 am
A week from today, Cashman will have completed at least one transaction and the naysayers will be out in force saying this guy or that guy should not have been included in a deal.
One of either Damon or Matsui will be locked up soon.
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I think Matsui more likely than Damon. I also think they want an answer from Andy pretty quickly too.
I’m not getting into the whose better Joba or Hughes. I have extreme confidence in both going forward.
Yankee Trader
Jeter’s in a contract year, and Alex has to ensure that his hip fully recovers. They’ll be ready. Plus, I think they know another WS run is possible and they aren’t getting any younger.
Joba has more career starts under his belt than Hughes – a possible indication that the Yankees have observed more progress and starter readiness.
Hughes pulled the hamstring in the no hitter in Texas in 2007 (then rolled his ankle in rehab), and hurt his ribs in 2008. Then they decided to have him be the set up man savior in the pen in 2009. I think it’s just a matter of bad luck and circumstances.
Wake me up when Pettitte is back in the fold.
This whole thing feels like Santana Redux. Or maybe it’s just deja vu all over again.
Except this time, it’s Chamberlain instead of Hughes whom people can’t push out the door fast enough.
The fact that Roy Halladay values his home life in Florida can’t be underestimated. He lives just 20 minutes away from George Steinbrenner Field which adds 6 weeks to his home life in spring training.
The dank, tiny so-called ballpark in Fort Myers is 2 1/5 hours further away.
Olney says the Yankees are high on Cameron as a Plan B if Damon’s salary demands don’t come down.
Just some opinions on where Halladay, if traded this month, will be sent.
Dodgers-NO!! Can’t pay him.
Angels-Maybe, but he’ll be at spring training in Arizona.
Phillies-Sounds like they’re done with big ticket items.
Boston-His extension $$$ will rankle Beckett who will want an extension, and they still have to sign Bay, or Holliday.
Yankees-He’s yours if you want him. Makes most sense-20 minutes from his home in Florida during spring training.
Good mentor and friend to AJ.
To give all Yankees fans a nice laugh this morning.
I was searching for the Yankees DVD from A&E about Pride Tradition and Glory, the story of the 2009 Yankees.
And I came across this.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....n_emb.html
this salary limitation is hype. they are not going to say they have no budget and the sky’s the limit, whoopee doo. good starting point and bargaining position as they sign lackey and holliday.
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
December 5th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Wake me up when Pettitte is back in the fold.
This whole thing feels like Santana Redux. Or maybe it’s just deja vu all over again.
Except this time, it’s Chamberlain instead of Hughes whom people can’t push out the door fast enough.
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bodh, I’m with you!
Rich-
Do you think Damon will get more than Abreu from some team?
Cameron for one year but what will he get, certainly not the 10M he made last year?
SJ 44 said recently that Scott Boras always has one stupid owner to take a certain player off his hands.
This year could see the White Sox giving Damon 3+ years to sign.
Erin
December 5th, 2009 at 11:12 am
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
December 5th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Wake me up when Pettitte is back in the fold.
This whole thing feels like Santana Redux. Or maybe it’s just deja vu all over again.
Except this time, it’s Chamberlain instead of Hughes whom people can’t push out the door fast enough.
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bodh, I’m with you!
=======
Hope Cash is with us.
“Boston-His extension $$$ will rankle Beckett who will want an extension”
This couldn’t possibly be less of a factor in Boston’s decision making as it relates to Halladay. I don’t think they’ll be in on him, but Beckett’s feelings/contrsct issues won’t be the reason why.
CR9-
Yankees open the season with Boston and end the season with them too-both 3 game series in Boston!
Most embarrasing vote had Ellsbury stealing home!
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
December 5th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Hope Cash is with us.
*********************
me too!!
i also think the ultimate goal on halliday is the same as santana: try to have him leave the league.
YT
No, but I wouldn’t even give Damon what Abreu got. The other thing is that Boras often waits out the market to find one desperate team. The Yankees probably want to make a move before then.
I think Cameron is worth $5-$6m. His defense in CF yields a lot of value.
Just looked at the report that Tiger allegedly has had a fourth mistress. On that very site (posted by obe of our posters; don’t feel like strolling up on my iphobe to find who in particular) someone said something interesting. Tiger growing up only paid mind to golf and school. There was nothing else. And. I mean c’mon, he aint no Derek Jeter with those looks. He didn’t have the opportunity to date or sleep with aby girl he wanted. Now that he has money, he wanted that part of his earlier days back.
Now, I’m not siding with the guy – there are plenty of fugly guys out there that still get it in
and I don’t agree with cheating on your wife or any significant other. I just feel for the guy now. He didn’t have experience dealing with women let alone money hungry skanks and he got played. Point blank period. Simple as that. I hope his wife leaves his bummy ass. Any man who would cheat on his wife isn’t worth it and she can get someone else. I mean, she’s a swedish model and gorgeous and, well, he’s not.
Apologies for any iPhone related misspellings.
“i also think the ultimate goal on halliday is the same as santana: try to have him leave the league.”
I doubt that Anthopoulos wants to make the same mistake that Bill Smith did. The Twins would be a lot better if they got something of value for Santana.
“For the Yankees, it was symbolic of a weekend in which they were beaten in the cruelest of ways, three losses that leave you wondering if they are as tough as the Red Sox anymore.”
My favorite line.
Funny how even though Lackey is a FA the majority of talk is about Halladay.
I question how highly Lackey is looked at by the Angels organization. Could they have concern over their ace’s health? Could they be having some financial problems that are not being reported as the real reason they are letting players go?
Last season and this season they have let key players go. K-Rod and Teixeira left with no real effort put in to keeping either one. This year Figgins looks to be heading to the Mariners with them sitting there watching. Vlad and Lackey haven’t been made any offers from the Angels.
It just seems odd. Vlad I can understand to a point. He didn’t have a very healthy year and is near the end, if not at the end of his playing in the outfield. Lackey though was a big part of their rotation.
Boston still has holes to fill. They really need a bat. I looked over Scutaro’s spray chart and he hits all over, but with very little power. Tons of ground outs, 50 HRs in his whole career, 12 of them coming last season. That means they need a bit more of a power bat, unless they have Ortiz drinking his magic shakes and taking his “vitamins and supplements” during the off season rather than relying on his father coming to visit during the season again and giving him the “boost” he needed to hit hard again.
They need an outfielder. Lowell could bounce back, but given the way he looked last year he might be close to done in his career. They don’t have a great catcher, as Victor is really a better firstbaseman than catcher.
One of the few teams that looks to be buying bigger is the Mariners. I think they see their chance to take the AL West this year.
The next couple of weeks are going to be very interesting.
Holliday – I have no idea where he will end up, but I tend to doubt he stays in St. Louis.
bardos
December 5th, 2009 at 11:21 am
i also think the ultimate goal on halladay is the same as santana: try to have him leave the league.
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That suits me fine.
If Damon waits to long, the market could bypass him much like what happened to Abreu, as teams fill their needs with the likes of Cameron, Byrd, Ankiel, and others for the outfield. Lot’s of DH types available this year too.
NitO, what exactly does Tiger Woods’ “driver” have to do with this thread? You came to the wrong place. Do you have an opinion on Damon/Matsui, or Joba/Phil, or Halladay, etc.?
bardos, what possible team in the NL would Halladay go to? He has said he doesn’t like batting, he wants to ST in Florida, he wants to stay on the East coast.
That limits it quite a bit. The Phillies have stated they are at their fiscal limit and not likely to go after Halladay.
Halladay is valuable, but with his NTC (and he turned down a couple of offers for him already, Twins and Rangers), his destinations are limited.
Santana leaving the AL was the undoing of the deal for him. The Mets got him for nothing. The only player who had any real worth in that deal has been traded away from the Twins. The Jays don’t want to make the same mistake.
Pat M said it perfectly in the previous thread and it’s what I’ve been saying all along. Doc is soooooo close to getting his freedom and gaining total control over the rest of his career. I do not think it’s at all certain that he agrees to an extension with a playoff team that he doesn’t truly want to be with, not when a team he wants to be with is out there for him next year. Does he want to get out of Dodge? Heck yeah, but is he willing to sacrfice the rest of his career (which is what an extension would take him through) for the desire to win right now? I can’t answer that, only Doc can, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer is no.
AS to Phil, he has been the victim of circumstances beyond his control. First he was called up in 2007 WAY too early. Cash was quoted in ST of that year saying that Phil wouldn’t be up unti late least September. He should have done a better job once injuries started to hit – find a pitcher, somewhere and anywhere, instead of rushing your crown jewel. Then the injuries hit – we know about what happened after that. Fortunately, Phil’s stuff returned and he was healthy all year this year. He works very hard and he’s liked in the clubhouse. Why Damon never once called out Joba bothers is beyond me……but Joba has gotten the benefit of every doubt while Phil was trashed by the fanbase for not being Santana. The only thing that gives me pause with regards to Phil is that this year he seemed to regress emotionally. First after the delayed game in NY against the Sox, he gets lit up and complains about being squeezed. Then he argues with the ump in the playoffs…..and skips a press session. Phil is a genuinely good kid, but I hope we don’t see that from him again.
Why are people so anxious to get rid of Swish?
Yankee Trader, Swish isn’t going anywhere (unless a fantastic deal falls in Cash’s lap AND he can find a better RF).
Yankee Trader, I don’t think many teams were even approaching Abreu last season. There were no offers other than the late offer from the Angels for him for a low price. Damon might face a similar situation. The only team so far has been slight interest from the Giants, unless I missed some others.
Abdababdaserser-
Bay makes the most sense as a pull hitter in that park.
Scutaro will increase his double totals and was a pretty good signing.
They are probably stuck with Lowell and his 12M salary.
Wonder if their real design is to drive up the price for the Yankees getting Halladay, with the real plan after spending $$$$ on a LF, is to sign a Harden/Bedard/Duscherer??
Um, where did Chapman sign?
Ditmars, someone posted a link earlier in this thread and I was just chipping in my two cents. Do you now control what can and can’t be posted on this board? If so, you should have that link removed.
Betsy, when Phil came up in 07 he was showing why he was the Phranchise. While the plan had been to wait a bit longer, that really didn’t have any bearing on him getting hurt.
Remember that year the Yankees suffered tons of hamstring injuries, which seemed to stem from the training and conditioning they were getting. (It hasn’t been anywhere near as bad since that year in terms of hamstring problems).
Once he injured his hamstring, Phil was not the same. His mechanics were different, he wasn’t trusting his leg and it put everything out of whack.
08 was the rib cage injury.
I agree it was a series of injuries that were somewhat freak. The hamstring is what might have been the root cause of the others. (his ankle was during rehab, which further affected his mechanics.)
He came in this year a lot hungrier. He wanted to make it in the majors and conditioned for it.
NitO, no, I’m not with the blog police, but a lot of times on this board, very interesting subjects get taken off track by irrelevant information, and it’s annoying. But, at least you’re not one of those Red Sox trolls that annoy the heck out of everybody. So who do you like, Matsui or Damon if you could only have one?
The Yanks aren’t going to wait around forever for Damon. They will make an offer and that offer will represent exactly what they think Johnny’s value is to them. I suspect that offer will come with something like a deadline…….and there will be no negotiating. The Yankees are tired of overpaying even with players that they actually want. I love that they are now taking firm stances and don’t consider (most, that is) players irreplaceable. If Damon insists on following Boras’ lead, then he won’t be back and the Yankees will find get someone else. They have not gone into this off-season without a plan. Knowing Cash, he’s got plan A, B, C, D, E, F and G.
Yankee Trader, Scutaro is a decent signing, but look at his spray chart for Fenway. He doesn’t play off that wall much, he hits a lot of ground outs and fly outs.
I agree that Bay seems the better choice for the RS as he has already shown what he can do there, and his defense isn’t as big a liability in left there. I think he is probably best suited for the Red Sox than the other teams rumored to be looking at him.
I don’t think Holliday would be bad there either though. He is probably the fall back plan.
Aba, Phil’s entire career has been a series of frustrations, lol. It was unfortunate that he pitched so poorly in the playoffs last year because 2009 had been very kind to him – he stayed healthy, his stuff returned and he showed (most of the time) a ridiculous combo of command and velocity. I hope he doesn’t dwell on the ending of his season (in terms of personal performance) and thinks of the positive….I think he’ll struggle as a SP this year because now he’ll have to go through lineups more than once, he’ll have to use his curve more and develop his change……….That said, I have every faith that he will be a terrific pitcher. IMO, if he goes to the pen again this year, it will set him back; he needs to start……now.
NitO LiNk
unfortunately, most men cheat. I read a study that 90% of men cheat.
I hope we can bring Wang back, he will be good again, I know he will
Id rather have Matsui over Damon…
Btw does anyone know if Damon is still quick, you’d figure for a former lead off hitter, the guy would be able to cover a lil bit more ground…
Betsy – high on pie
December 5th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Why are people so anxious to get rid of Swish?
**********************
I have no idea. I’ve come to really like Swish-I love what he brings to the team.
Betsy, you are right. Phil had to go to the pen last year out of neccessity but he is a starter and they have to let him start this year. He destroys the minors every time he’s sent down and he only uses 2 pitches out of the pen. The only thing to do with him is let him start at the big league level. I think he could develop into a really good pitcher, I believe he has the drive and intelligence that it takes. I also think Halladay would be a great influence on him as they are pretty similar “stuff wise”.
Knowing Cash, he’s got plan A, B, C, D, E, F and G.
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All that while juggling three phone calls at once!!!
I’m not eager to trade Swisher. It’s been said that Toronto wants major league ready position players. The positions, IMO, where they have immediate needs are OF and SS.
Therefore if we want Halladay, it’s quite possible that Toronto asks for Gardner and Pena, the cheaper options, or want one of Cabrera or Swisher instead.
Swisher is a good contract for the production and intangibles he brings. I don’t see them trading him really.
Ditmars, if it were up to me I’d sign Damon in a heartbeat over Matsui. Yeah, I know he was the WS MVP and was huge for us and all, but I don’t like the fact that he can’t play the field. Damon, on the other hand, while having a noodle arm can still field. He was perfect behind Jeter this year and I don’t like our other 2-hole options. Robbie can’t hit so far up in the lineup without taking pitches and working walks. And I am in agreeance with staying with Swish but I’m not confortable hitting him second either. So by noy signing Damon, we need a new LF and a valid 2-hole which is who? IMO we can do without Matsui.
Betsy, I don’t think the post season problems that Hughes had really set him back that much. The playoffs are a beast, prior to that he was looking very good.
Most teams don’t look at the final portion of the season for the value of a player. Hughes was more like the pitcher potential that we saw when he first came up. His velocity was around 95, had good control and command, good movement on his pitches, and he had added a pitch, I think the cutter, which made him even better.
While the timing of the struggles was tough, I don’t think that will hurt Hughes’ value to the club. Just like I don’t think Joba’s performance was THAT good when he was pitching in the relief role, though he did look better.
I wonder if Joba just hit a wall so to speak, and his getting some additional rest helped him regain some of his stuff for the post season.
—
Bernie, Damon made some very good plays in the outfield, he did have his struggles there as well. He had talked a bit about his eyes jiggling and giving him trouble in the earlier part of the season. I wonder what that was all about and if it is something of concern.
Damon is still quick enough, but he is also a pretty smart ballplayer.
I would like to Wang be given a chance to come back. I think if he does it will be on an incentive laden deal. Not sure if another team will give him more and he leaves.
I think Matsui as a DH is great. He hasn’t gotten much talk either yet. A few looks, Mets sniffing around, but I don’t think he can play the field enough for him to go to a NL club.
For the right deals I could see both Damon and Matsui back. I don’t think the Yankees will over pay them though.
“Therefore if we want Halladay, it’s quite possible that Toronto asks for Gardner and Pena, the cheaper options, or want one of Cabrera or Swisher instead”
They definitelt don’t want Swisher. He makes real money. Probably don’t want Melky either as he’s heading into his arb years. Yankees don’t have a SS that appeals IMO. Pena isn’t good enough. They also need a C, which would lend to interest in Romine, but they’d need a Phil or Joba on top of that IMO.
*definitely
My wish list, staying within budget would be resigning Pettitte and Matsui for one year and finding a way to trade for Granderson and perhaps Edwin Jackson in a mega deal involving mostly blue chip minor league prospects not named Montero. Just seems like too much to ask for!!!
Still believe that Granderson would be terrific in NY, especially with Long working with him.
DUH!
Lauren, that is unfortunate but do you have a link? I’d like to read up on that as well. I’m a 24 year old guy married to a gorgeous woman (January anniversary; best year of my life
) and have never cheated on her or any other previous girlfriend.
But some guys are jerks. I know a few. And I’m sure there is more than one millionaire husband who has cheated as well.
If I were Toronto, I would think Melky and Pena would be decent additions to the club that could make a positive impact to positions they need filled.
They have also been said to want a catcher and pitcher.
I think Melky is cheaper than Swisher, and he has been pretty clutch in late innings. He has a good arm that would help them in RF.
The biggest thing is if Toronto owners would be sold enough getting 4 players that are not as strong as the so called target players they are looking for. Say a Joba/ Hughes and Jackson/Montero.
•The Jays are looking for “top prospects at pitcher, shortstop and catcher in any deal,” says Phil Rogers of The Chicago Tribune. He adds that the White Sox surely would have been in on Halladay if they didn’t acquire Jake Peavy at the deadline.
•Anthony McCarron of The NY Daily News says the Yankees will “see what’s there,” referring to potential trade talks with Toronto.
•ESPN Boston’s Gordon Edes says “it’s starting to sound like [the Red Sox] have considerable qualms about the kind of money and players it will take to land” Doc.
•Will Carroll of Baseball Prospectus says that a trade to the Angels will not happen because Halladay wants to train in Florida, and that’s “absolute.” The Halos train in Tempa, Arizona. If true, this demand would also eliminate the Cubs, Dodgers, and Rangers, all of whom train in Arizona and have been linked to Halladay at various times.
Erin, I probably overstated the case as far as everyone wanting to trade Swish (sorry, Yankee Trader)……I don’t mean he’s untouchable, but the Yanks would have to have a deal in place for a better RF if they get rid of him. Swish isn’t perfect – he’ll never hit for average – but he’s versatile and a good player. I would definitely hold onto him…….
Blake, Doc would be a great influence on anyone. I don’t know enough about his “stuff” to agree or not as to whether he “matches” with Phil, but they obviously both throw cutters (though I’m sure Mo has helped Phil out). Maybe Mo can mentor Doc, lol – remember the clip from 2008 ASG where Mo was explaining his grip, etc… on the pitch? Who knows? Maybe Doc comes here and improves his cutter?
YT, thanks for posting!
The Yankees have 2/3 that the Jays would want….I don’t count Pena because why would the Jays want him? He’s not considered a starting SS on a good team…..
Was that from MLB trade rumors?
I’m not surprised at all about Florida – we’ve heard that for the last year and a half. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire…
YT
Aside from Montero, Jackson and maybe Romine are the only guys who would assume “blue chip” status. Yankees system is deep with players who can potentially be average MLB players and 3/4/5 starters, but not a lot of star quality. Jackson and McAllister for Granderson perhaps?
Lauren, I find it hard to believe that 90% of men cheat. These “studies” into human behavior are usually so flawed with how they do their work that there is no way to take them seriously.
There was a study done recently that was looking at evaluating porn watching to sexual behavior. They couldn’t find any 20 year old guys who didn’t watch at least some porn. Their sample size was 20. Somehow I don’t think that is a valid study.
Funny how that post from MLB TradeRumors doesn’t include that Halladay had already turned down a move to the Twins and Rangers during the summer.
It also doesn’t mention that Halladay has already indicated that he wants to be on the East Coast, further limiting the choices.
If the Jays wanted low cost minor league prospects, or players with some major league experience, which four of the following “might” get a deal done for Halladay? Trying to keep Joba, Hughes and Montero.
McAllister
Kennedy
Brackman
Betances
Robertson
Melancon
Nunez
Pena
Gardner
Ajax
Romine
YANKEE TRADER=
I would want. Ajax , Romine , Nunez and Robertson
“Yankees don’t have a SS that appeals IMO. Pena isn’t good enough. They also need a C, which would lend to interest in Romine, but they’d need a Phil or Joba on top of that IMO.”
Eduardo Nunez turned a lot of heads last ST and then went on to have a terrific season at AA Trenton. The Yankees thought highly enough of him that they protected him on the 40 man roster last month.
Even though he may not “major league ready”, he still appears to be on the fast track to making to the majors and I would guess he starts next year at SWB if he remains with the Yankees.
I say “if” because with the Blue Jays apparently wanting a shortsop included in a package for Halladay, I am starting to wonder if maybe the Yankees may consider including Nunez.
And Betsy, yes, that was the recent posting from MLB Trade Rumors.
YANKEE TRADER=
I would want. Ajax , Romine , Nunez and Robertson
————————————————–
Mike Ri-Would you make that deal if you were the Yankees?
If they give Aroldis Champman a minor league deal, he won’t count against the payroll or the luxury tax.
Disco Stu, could be. The Jays have undoubtedly scouted the entire Yankee farm system………as I said, we’ll see if Anthopolous is cut from the same mold as Ricciardi. If he’s not, then he won’t take a hard-line stance with “it has to be a combo of Joba/Hughes/Jackson/Montero” and will be willing to negotiate.
The Yankees won’t give up Montero, but they do have Romine (I’d hate to give him up, I admit it) and other strong catching prospects. I guess now may be where the Yankees drafting starts to show itself to full advantage.
I can’t give up Robertson……..I don’t think the Yankees would either.
Hey Betsy – I actually think the fact that Austin Romine is such a terrific prospect may actually make it possible for the Yankees to consider trading Jesus Montero in a package for Halladay.
It would be one thing if Montero was the only catching prospect the Yankees had that seriously translates to one day being a major leaguer … the fact that they have two and both are performing as well as they are makes me think that they can could part with either and the one they keep they will continue to groom toward the majors.
I honestly dont think Montero would end of being a deal breaker … not for Roy Halladay … especially, if the Yankees sign him to an extention after the trade is done.
YT:
Ajax, Romine, McAllister and Kennedy. Too easy to find relief pitcting elsewhere and I’m sure there is an everyday IF in the bunch.
* I’m NOT sure
They’re not trading Montero. Romine could be traded in the right deal.
Disco Stu, I’m sure Montero is a deal breaker if he’s that good with the bat. I really, really like Romine………..but I would have to include him if the Jays insisted.
If they include Romine in any Doc deal, the Yanks would have to be either very confident that Montero could catch or that another of their young catchers could be Posada’s eventual replacement. The problem is the catchers beyond Montero and Romine are not close to being in the majors.
I dont know guys, you mean to tell me that if the Yankees can put together either a 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 trade for Halladay and all we are giving up are prospects (we still keep both Joba and Hughes), that the Yankees will still walk away from the table if the Blue Jays insist on wanting Jesus Montero?
We ARE talking about Roy Halladay, right?
Maybe I am wrong, but I think the Yankees would be ecstatic if they could land Halladay and keep Joba and Hughes and continue to develop both of them.
Betsy, Cervelli is already in the majors, so they are at least covered. Higashioka will be in low A this year, possibly with Arcia, Murphy will probably be in SI, and Gary Sanchez will probably be in GCL with Taveras. So there is about a two season lag between Romine and the next wave of catching prospects. It would be interesting to see how they arrange the catchers if they do trade Romine.
disco stu,
we’re walking away if they say they have to have Montero.
I could be wrong, of course, but I really don’t think that if Cash works a deal for Halladay it will cost as much as people think.
Cash will tell the Alex Antho…, the new GM in Toronto, that money is tighthening up, the Steinbrenners have given him orders to cut payroll and go with younger players, and he just can’t deal that much for only one year of Doc prior to FA – and what if he wants an extension to approve it! Look, I’m going to stick my neck out with Hal and Hank to spend the money, AND I’m doing you a favor by letting you deal Doc and reduce your payroll for your bosses.
And if the new Toronto GM doesn’t go for it – remember Boston has a aversion to long term high dollar contracts for players in their mid-late 30s; Boston writers are now talking about Red Sox hesitancy, though this could be a negotiating ploy, also – well, then, Doc and his $15M+ salary can stay in Toronto, for a team with no chance of winning next year, and they can get those absolutely guaranteed, no chance of failing draft picks.
But, like I said, I could be wrong in this. We shall see.
Why give up anything of value when you can get Halladay for free next year.
Maybe he blows out an arm this year, why can’t we wait??
Didn’t we just win the world series ?
Everyone is acting like we need Halliday, he is
not a must have. I don’t believe he is anyway.
Let’s keep the kids.
And there is no way they trade for Doc without an extention. It just won’t happen. Do we really need
another 20 mil a year player?
McCarron over at the Daily News says we’re also looking at Lackey, so if they want Montero or something crazy, Lackey starts to make more sense.
If Halladay is really serious about training in Florida so he can be home during ST, the only teams close enough to fit that bill are the Yankees, Phillies, and Rays. It is a stretch, but possible, that Pittsburgh and Detroit are close enough as well.
Obviously, only the Phillies and Yankees are capable of making the deal. If it is true that the Phillies are done with their big ticket items this year, then it’s the Yankees or bust. There should be no need to give up Joba, Phil, or Montero if Halladay forces their hand. Since they have no way of shedding Wells, they won’t need Ajax either.
The days of mortgaging our future are over.
We are the World Champs and have the potential to create another dynasty.
Again, why give away top prospects when we can get FREE agents for FREE. I repeat FREE!!!!
for what it’s worth, here’s my feelings about halliday.
the yankees don’t need him.
one guy doesn’t win anything.
if it did , the jays would have won last year.
it’s how one guy fits in to a team. the way teixeira did. he made other players better.
halliday would cost the yankees young players and then cost a fortune.
he’s not worth it because the yankees already have sabathia, burnett, joba, and hughes.
and likely pettitte.
if the red sox get him, he doesn’t put them over the top because they’d have to give up buccholtz and other young players and then inflate their payroll to a place that would handcuff them with future moves.
the yankees do not have to lap the field to win the race. they don’t have to win by 15 games.
they can win the division title by 5-9 games as is simply because the red sox are a mess.
scutaro is a good utility player, but that’s it. they still have no left fielder. lowell and ortiz is aging fast. martinez can’t throw. etc.
their low ball spending philosophy has reached the point of diminishing returns.
cashman blew them out of the water with his signing of sabathia, teixeira, and burnett last winter.
he can sit on this good hand along with the other strong points the yankees have. he can make small changes and medium changes like damon or matsui, but there is absolutely no reason to make the team weaker three years from now to win by 15 games in 2010.
as a disclaimer, i don’t really like halliday. he looks like someone i’d like to see the yankees beat. i don’t know what it is, but there’s an arrogance about him that doesn’t say yankee to me.
let him go to boston and mortgage their future. it’ll be fun watching the yankees beat him and the depleted red sox because of the cost of getting him.
Halladay = Red Rider BB Gun (“He’ll Shoot their eye out”)
Lauren–Don’t know about the study, but I don’t cheat and I believe I know others who do not as well. Don’t let some study affect how you lead your life. Be optimistic. Rant over.
We are already over the top with talent.
Name one other team where Halladay puts them over the top.
Philly? Boston? I don’t think so.
Halladay knows this. He also knows he will make the most money here and win a Championship to boot.
Where do you think he wants to go?
To be with his buddy AJ on top of that.
He will just have to wait a year to get his wish.
I believe he has already intimated that.
“disco stu,
we’re walking away if they say they have to have Montero.”
So if the Blue Jays offered Roy Halladay (arguably, the best pitcher in baseball who would be paired with CC to form a 1-2 punch that would every bit as devastating as Schilling/Johnson were with Arizona) straight up for Jesus Montero … if you are in Brian Cashman’s ear, you are telling him to walk away?
I hope you’re right about Montero … because we already know what Halladay is.
Halladay can demand to train in Florida all he wants. The truth of the matter is that if the right deal came along, he’d take it. Just like his demand to not be traded after Spring Training. If a deal to send him to us came up in June, he’d jump at it, especially if we had a hold on 1st place.
“He will just have to wait a year to get his wish.”
Easier said than done if TOR has yet another God awful season, which they probably will. My guess is that he’d like to get a deal done now if he can help it. Pitching on a crappy team has got to sting for someone with his talent.
Halladay has a no trade clause but so do we.
It’s simple. He wants NY. We don’t want to trade for him when we can get him free.
Who has the upper hand?
We do, mick – as long as TOR doesn’t deal him to someone else, say Boston.
disco stu
What Toronto has to offer is one year of 33 year old Halladay, not unlimited years of 26 year old Halladay. They’re not getting Montero in the deal. Pluse Roy has his NTC and he’s calling the shots
Laura
Do you honestly feel those cheapskates will pay the price for him?
“Do you honestly feel those cheapskates will pay the price for him?”
No, I don’t. But don’t underestimate how much our winning probably annoyed them. If they didn’t have so many other holes to fill, they would have been all over Halladay like white on rice.
Halladay is in no hurry. He has waited this long. Boston does not win if they get him anyway. He would be a luxury for us, not a necessity. He can wait one more year.
Halladay is in a hurry. He wants out and he already told them to trade him by the start of ST.
“Halladay is in no hurry. He has waited this long. Boston does not win if they get him anyway. He would be a luxury for us, not a necessity. He can wait one more year.”
Exactly. He WANTS us more than we NEED him. Don’t get me wrong – I’d love to have him. But I’m not willing to part with Hughes or Montero to get him. I might be able to be convinced to part with Joba, but it would have to be the right deal.
Boston is a team in decline. They are aging and hit their peak in 07.
Neil
December 5th, 2009 at 11:15 am
“SJ 44 said recently that Scott Boras always has one stupid owner to take a certain player off his hands.”
_______________________________________________
Ask Jason Varitek how that strategy worked for him when taking Boras advice last year, turned down arbitration for 11-12 million. Ended up with about a 4-5 million contract I believe.
“Halladay is in a hurry. He wants out and he already told them to trade him by the start of ST.”
He’s in a hurry if it’s the right deal. If something can’t be worked out with us, he’s probably content to wait until he’s a FA to make his $$$.
Give them back AJ (he has his ring) and some prospects,hehehe!!
It would be nice for Doc to get his wish, Phil, but unfortunately he does not have the upper hand. Toronto cannot trade him w/out his approval but he can’t force a trade. Sounds like he is in limbo. They might have to settle for the draft picks next year. Unless he settles to go elsewhere for one year without an extension.
We look good for 2010. If Andy doesn’t come back in 2011, Halladay would fit in nicely then. We can get by without him next year.
randy I – couldn’t have said it better. I don’t know about his personality, or clubhouse fit – that’s important, just look at the guys Cash brought in to see the results – but, as you said, they don’t need to win the division by 15 games. That’s why I think if Cash works a deal, it will be at the right price (“the right player at the right price”) that works for the Yankees. And if it doesn’t, then Cash will look elsewhere.
The clout that Cash has is that, in the Yanks winning the WS this year, he and the team do not have a cloud of failure hanging over them, they had a winning year, and only tweaks needed going forward. Cash will work that to the team’s advantage.
I think Halladay is there to be had. The question is do the Yankees want to give up enough for the Jays’ new GM to be able to convince his audience that he did a good job in his first major act. This is, in my opinion, too good an opportunity to let pass by. It’s my sense(with of course no more knowledge than any of you)that Joba, Romine and Nunez or Pena would likely get it done. That would be my ultimate offer to them.
austinmac
why give up joba? if doc goes somewhere else by mid-season, he will still be a FA in 2011. let some team rent him then we scoop him up for nothing.
joba and romine for an old pitcher? surely you jest.
smacks of desperation esp when you can get him for free.
joe from long island-
we’ve both been watching the yankees for a long time and sometimes a move just feels right or wrong.
i can see the rational reasons, win shares etc, that some people have for getting halladay, but it just doesn’t add up to me in my gut.
i’m rooting against the yankees getting him.
you know as much as anyone how much i’ve bashed cashman, but he’s got the yankees in a very good position right now. he hit the jackpot on two moves last winter in sabathia and teixeira. and burnett was a plus.
the red sox are stuck with jd drew, a devalued matsuzaka, an aging ortiz. they are probably still paying lugo money. they can make one big financial move, but not likely more than one.
they need to sign bay or they go way backward. he’s a good player for them, and more so for them than for other teams.
if the red sox make two big financial moves they’ll shoot their wad and the yankees will have spent nothing and would be able to make some smaller moves to match what the red sox did and still be in a dominant position over them.
if cashman just lays in the weeds and make the right small and medium moves the yankees are in great shape.
it’s a good time to be a yankee fan.
Last season the Jays just said they want a deal that will wow them.
So different combination were presented by by teams.
Now they’re specific,MLB ready pitcher,catcher,and OF.
CASHMAN HAS TO JUST HIT THE TARGET….Done!
Cash plans his work,and works his plan,this will be huge!
braeden
maybe i am missing something but why would Cash, who passed on Santana, give up ANY talent when Halladay will cost nuthin but money in 1 year???
Cause he wants to win now? he will win now in spite of Doc. He is not the missing link.
They know he wants us more than we want him, so he will have to wait. Why PANIC?
sawx don’t have money to spend, john henry’s hedge fund isn’t rolling in dough like before 2008.They are patching their leaky hole,with bubble gum!The rats are already starting to jump ship.
mick
I said Cashman has a plan,you read into it that he’s going to give up PLAYERS.Cashman hates paying and giving up players,you do know that?
He has to show interest to keep the price high,and other teams honest,that’s all I’m saying.
AJ is speaking with Halladay,I say he waits and walks.
“Ajax, Romine, McAllister and Kennedy”
—————————————-
Question: Would you trade CC: for Ajax, Romine, McAllister and Kennedy?