The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


What Figgins tells us about Damon

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 05, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Chone Figgins seems ready to sign a four-year deal with the Mariners. Total salary, $36 million.

Today, Buster Olney called Figgins the third-best position player on the market and wrote that ”… the fact that he is signing with Seattle for less than $10 million a year tells you that the salaries for position players continue to come down.” As Olney pointed out, it might also tell us something about Johnny Damon.

I didn’t think it would be the worst thing in the world for the Yankees to offer Damon arbitration. I certainly wasn’t surprised when he wasn’t offered , but I thought a one-year deal at slightly more than Yankees would have liked to pay was a fair risk for the potential reward of two compensation draft picks. The Figgins signing, though, suggests an arbitration contract with Damon might have been well above his market value.

Brian Cashman judged the position player market exactly right last year when he elected not to offer arbitration to Bobby Abreu, who wound up taking a one-year contract worth $5 million. I’m not suggesting Damon’s value has dropped that far, but in a slowly developing market, a position player (or two) might be available for less than we (and they) are expecting.

• In that same article, Olney says the Yankees top priority is to sign Andy Pettitte and says they are not likely to be in the market for Jason Bay or Matt Holliday. Nothing shocking there, but worth noting. Olney mentions Mike Cameron as a potential outfield target.

• Bryan Hoch has a good wrap-up of the Yankees needs heading into the Winter Meetings.

• Former Yankees catcher Chad Moeller has signed a minor league deal with the Orioles and former Yankees reliever T.J. Beam has a minor league deal with the Diamondbacks.

• Greg Porter, who struggled and became an afterthought with Scranton/Wilkes-Barre two years ago, is Baseball America’s Independent League Player of the Year.

• Strange things happening at The Yankee Universe blog. The blog has been given a cease and desist order, possibly because it shares a name with a Yankees charity.

 
 

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339 Responses to “What Figgins tells us about Damon”

  1. mick December 5th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    figgins @ 9 mil…poor guy

  2. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    Chad, after they saw what happened with Abreu last year, there was no way they were gonna offer arb that would surely represent an overpay.

  3. Chad Jennings December 5th, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    Probably true, Phil. Like I said, I wasn’t at all surprised by the decision, I just thought it was a solid risk. Thought the worst case scenario was acceptable (and unlikely).

  4. blake December 5th, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    Has anyone considered that if the economy improves over the next year then the free agents next year might be more expensive than they are this year.

    If that becomes true then waiting until next offseason may cost a lot more than this. Its just like with real estate, when the economy is bad the rich get richer. The Yankees could get some real bargains this year in this economy and if guys like Hollidays price tag falls far enough they should take advantage.

  5. CR9 December 5th, 2009 at 6:17 pm

    I have a question completely off topic. Please help.

    If I get a home theater system, and hook my PS3 up normally via HDMI, but want my cable via cable wires, my satellite receivers and dvd recorders to receive the surround sound (but they do not have HDMI capabilities), can I use the digital optical output on my TV and output it to the HT receiver’s input?

    Would that work?

  6. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    They can still get him if they want him, so why risk having an arbitrator decide between their price and the Yankee price. Why not just wait and let the market establish his price? And that’s just what they did. And it’s lower than either side would have submitted in arb.

    And to them, saving the millions on arb, is worth more than the pick or picks they would have gotten had someone else grabbed him. They finally realize that they basically have first pick everyday in Internation Free Agency, and millions saved in the majors can be a multitude of first picks around the world.

  7. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    Cash was the one who insisted George give him the power to remake the farm system (among other things), so he certainly knows the importance of picks. However, Damon was not going to get a pay cut in arbitration and, knowing Boras, he was going to submit a ridiculous figure. I’m fine with the Yankees not offering arbitration. If Damon wants to come back, he will. If he wants money and more security more than he wants to be back, then he won’t. Either way, you better believe Cash has a plan.

  8. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    Alabama!

  9. squidward December 5th, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    “Alabama!”

    Terrific throw.

  10. Abdababdaserser December 5th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    CR9, I would give it a try. The worst that happens is it doesn’t work. It won’t cause you any problems where you would damage the units.

    Without knowing your system, it would be tough to know for certain how to make it all work.

    Another possibility is to go with a switch block where you can choose which device will provide the inputs.

  11. m December 5th, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    I didn’t see the sense of offering arbitration to Damon in a year where two other LF who rate above him were hitting the market. The market just isn’t there for Johnny and it doesn’t help that he’s old.

    Looks like you guys had a good discussion going about the prospects vs Halladay. Of the players likely to go, who would be on track to replace on of our starters now. What I’m getting at is you develop talent to use them, right? Who in the system besides Joba and Phil and potentially montero will actually make it to the bigs and stick?

  12. Bronx Baseball Daily December 5th, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    So we’re right on target to see Damon sign a 2-year $18 million deal then?

  13. Jeremy December 5th, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    Please ! Montero will be a better power hitter than Hanley. And Boston was in need of an ace since Pedro left and Schilling was getting old. The Yankees are not in that position especially since the free agent class over the next two years will be great.

    repost

  14. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    We have a bunch of guys in the system now who will make it to the bigs. The question for the organization is to figure out which ones are Yanks, which ones are organiztional players and which ones are trade bait.

  15. Abdababdaserser December 5th, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    Rafael Soriano might now accept arbitration. That could be problematic for the Braves as they have signed Wagner and Saito.

    This is a great example of the risk involved with offering arbitration in order to get picks. It can come back and bite you if they accept and you are counting on them not to accept.

    The Braves signed Wagner very early on, that was probably a mistake on their part. Saito came later, but they made their moves based on Soriano not accepting.

    This could cause them to have to alter other plans they might have had.

  16. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    “So we’re right on target to see Damon sign a 2-year $18 million deal then?”

    I doubt it.

    Damon probably can only play the OF passably for one more year. That has to reduce his value.

  17. Jeremy December 5th, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    DaSaint007
    Yeah Jeter is the face of the franchise but for how long ?

    4-5 years goes by real quick. Face it the core of this team not including Cano, Tex, CC, A.J., are getting old. We need to replace these guys and free agency alone will not fill the holes.

    You don’t trade a prospect away who has that potential, and what many in the organization see as the best hitting prospect developed in the farm since Mantle.

    I have more confidence in Cash then many of these arm chair GM’s who have no common sense.

    repost

  18. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 6:41 pm

    Jeremy

    Given that hitters tend to age better than pitchers, is s a 32 year old AJ really younger than a 35 year old Jeter in terms of what is left of his career? I’m not sure.

  19. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    have you guys not seen the deterioration of damon’s game? he has no speed left, none. his range is rapidly decreasing and alarmingly, balls he gets too went off his glove all year. and he misjudged alot of balls.

    any 2 year deal is about a year and a half too long and $18M would be a disaster.

    i love johnny, but i dont want to see him finish like bernie did.

  20. G. Love December 5th, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    I have a feeling Damon is going to not love the offers after seeing what Figgins signed for.

    I think this actually plays to the Yankees favor. If he’ll take 2 years 18 million from the Yankees that looks about the best he should take it.

    I don’t see any team giving him 9 million a season for 3 years.

    The 3 year offers, if they even exist, will probably be in the 21 million range.

    That said, I wasn’t against offering arb as getting Damon for one year at his old salary solved the LF problem for one more season and allowed the Yankees to buy some time rather than possibly investing in Holliday/Bay types who I don’t love.

    I don’t think you can head into 2010 with Melky, Gardner and Swisher (and Ajax in reserve) as your starting OF. That’s not very good at all.

  21. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    They’re gonna get an outfielder, we just don’t know which one yet.

  22. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    Damon will take one year at $7m and he’ll like it.

  23. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    I don’t want Damon for 2 years – 1 and a team option for another is the most I would offer.

  24. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    Rich, in that case, we will still probably add another OF.

  25. Jeremy December 5th, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    Rich in NJ
    I don’t think he is that young because he isn’t. But the point I was making to dasaint007 is that the core is getting old and the only players who you could say are young in terms of a new core are CC, Tex, and Cano.

  26. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10357594

    Ex-Pads GM may get new job — 5:52 p.m.
    Former San Diego general manager Kevin Towers is planning to attend the winter meetings in Indianapolis this week. He won’t be on official business, but he could finalize his next job.

    Towers has been approached by several teams to be a special assistant to the general manager.

    He is leaning toward accepting an offer from Yankees GM Brian Cashman, a close friend of Towers, according to sources close to the situation.

    The Yankees would present Towers with two new views on baseball — working for a team that has money to spend (he has spent his time with the Padres and Pirates) and getting a feel for life in the American League. — Tracy Ringolsby

    ***********

    DeRosa in state of flux — 2:21 p.m.
    Mark DeRosa is in a waiting game.

    Waiting for the Cardinals to learn whether they will re-sign left fielder Matt Holliday.

    Waiting for the Yankees to learn whether they will re-sign left fielder Johnny Damon.

    Waiting for the Braves to clear money by trading a starting pitcher.

    Waiting for the Giants to decide whether they prefer Adrian Beltre or another option at third base.

    Waiting for the Red Sox to make a similar decision at third if they trade Mike Lowell, and resolve left field by signing Holliday, Jason Bay — or neither.

    Lesser teams such as the Mets and Nationals also are interested in DeRosa, according to major-league sources. But, like so many free agents, his first choice is to play for a contender.

    DeRosa, who turns 35 on Feb. 26, is seeking a three-year contract for between $21 million and $24 million, one source says. His agents’ response to those who question awarding such a deal to a player his age is that DeRosa has been lightly used for most of his career. Thus, from a baseball perspective, he is effectively younger.

    Another advantage for DeRosa is his versatility. He is willing to either be a starter at third base or a player who moves all over the field in a super-utility role. –Ken Rosenthal

    *****

    So, would DeRosa be a good replacement for Damon? He’s also versatile, which the Yankees love….

  27. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    Pass on DeRosa.

  28. Abdababdaserser December 5th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    G. Love, I don’t think the Yankees will go to war with that outfield as it is currently structured. I don’t see them wanting to bring Jackson up too soon. They did that with Melky and it wasn’t pretty.

    From most talk about Jackson he is still about a season away.

    I know you can make some plans based on what the next off season FA market looks to be like, but there are a number of them that might not become FAs. The biggest ones are the ones who are saying, at least now, that they want to remain with their current clubs. CC was known to be heading to FA. Halladay is a question as he could get his good deal as part of a trade and upping his current salary. In this current economy that could work to his benefit.

    The economy won’t be turning around by next year either.

  29. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    Yanks thing AJack is half a season away.

  30. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    Jeremy

    I view it in terms of tiers. Po, Mo, and Pettitte are old baseball-wise, but Mo appears to he an extreme outlier.

    Jeter and A-Rod are middle-aged, but keep themselves in tremendous shape and our super motivated, although granted, their age makes them more susceptible to injury and decline.

    Then you have the younger guys you mentioned, CC, Teix, and Cano. (I would add Joba, Hughes, and maybe DRob as being able to join them).

    One way to mitigate against the age is to have younger support players even if they aren’t core players (e.g., Swisher) That’s the reason I would only give Damon one year.

    But I agree that they need Montero (and maybe AJack) can to become part of the core.

  31. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    Phil, any reason why?

  32. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    Betsy, too much dough, crappy OBP.

  33. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 7:03 pm

    ajax made the jump to aa in 08 and aaa in 09 very successfully as a very young guy at each level. he might suprise people, but you cant go into next season counting on him as a starter.

  34. Mike December 5th, 2009 at 7:06 pm

    What is the Yankees obsession with Mike Cameron? He is awful. Low OBP and strikes out.

  35. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    Ok, thanks Phil

  36. Abdababdaserser December 5th, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    If they aren’t traded, Hughes and Joba will be in their make or break year with the Yankees this coming season. I don’t mean that they have to be aces, but their roles need to be defined and they need to show there is more consistency with their performance.

    Phil, I heard only one person claim that Jackson would be ready to come up by mid-year. Not that I read absolutely everything, so there may be others. Many more of the things I’ve read and heard were saying a late call up in September or next season.

    Of course a lot depends on how he does and what he shows. Either way, if he isn’t starting the season you can’t count on him for the season. Anything could happen to hamper him from coming up.

  37. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    Mike, he has an average OBP, is an above average offensive player and would improve our D, and only take a small committment from the Yanks. That’s what people like about Mike Cameron.

  38. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    fortunatly for us, we have an excellent resource on ajax, a guy who saw (just about?) every game he played this season.
    what say you about mr jackson, chad?

  39. Rico December 5th, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    There will be a competition for the 5th spot, as there should be.

    The fact that Andy is categorized as priority #1 and we’re in the Halladay sweepstakes, plus looking at guys like Lackey/Harden… shows you that pitching is going to be the focus this winter. Girardi/Cash were quoted at that DVD premier as pretty much saying the same thing.

    Where there’s smoke…. If not Halladay, we’ll wind up with someone else in the rotation. We’re going to go to camp with 4 established starters.

  40. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 7:13 pm

    Unless Andy retires.

  41. ph December 5th, 2009 at 7:13 pm

    Mike Cameron? They’re still throwing that name around? Shesh…

  42. EA December 5th, 2009 at 7:14 pm

    Cameron is a great clubhouse guy and is best friends with CC and A-Rod… plus he is less of a diva than Damon and will sign for a cheap 1 yr deal.

    He’s a frustrating player, with all the strikeouts and .250 average, but if Damon prices himself out of our range, there is nothing we can do but go to plan B, which is probably Cameron.

  43. 4time December 5th, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    Get Granderson… forget Cameron.

  44. m December 5th, 2009 at 7:18 pm

    I don’t see how Jackson can be deemed ready at mid-season.

    I don’t like the idea of more than one season for Damon. If the Yankees don’t sign him where does he go? Boston? Chicago just got rid of Dye, why would they want another older player that’s weak on defense?

    Damon’s future is up in the air in my eyes. Talking about 4 years and fountains of youth really sets up Damon to take a big hit.

  45. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    The Yanks think Jackson could be ready by mid season. He has developed by sudden leaps, not slow growth.

  46. CR9 December 5th, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    I am not a fan or hater of either Alabama or UF.

    But listening to these commentators on CBS, I would be so angry if I were a Gators fan right now.

    These 2 guys are sick pigs. They are like parasites. One of the 2 losers called some pass “an asthetically pleasing pass”. He probably thought he sounded cool or something. In reality, he sounds like a jerk*ff.

  47. CR9 December 5th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    By the way, Thanks Abda. As long as it will not ruin anything, then it’s worth a shot.

  48. m December 5th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    I thought last year was his leaps and bounds year? But he regressed a bit.

    Does he project better than Melky?

  49. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    Camerons’s UZR/150 was 10.3 last season. His ISO D was .092, so he’s similar to Swisher in that regard. He should be a 4 WAR player. That’s a pretty good value if you can get him for one year at $6m.

  50. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    AJack > Melky

  51. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    Two years ago, after spending his first season and a half in low A, he suddenly started hitting curves. He went up to the FSL and blew the doors off it. Last year, in AA, he had an okay season that was effected by the homepark, then did well in the playoffs. This season he started off well, but with no power as they were changing his swing. They believe the power will come and come suddenly.

  52. m December 5th, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    CR9,

    That didn’t make any sense at all.

    They’re probably like me, though. Tired of hearing about Florida. Getting all the praises when they haven’t been heads and shoulders above the other unbeatens.

    So a FLA loss today means no title game bid, right?

  53. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    regressed? he won IL rookie of the year as one of the youngest players in the league!

  54. m December 5th, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    Ooh. Regressed is not the right word is it? Hit a wall? Struck out a ton? At any rate, they feel he’s not quite where they need him, IL awards notwithstanding. ;)

  55. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    jeez, the guys hit .300 and won rookie of the year, but that’s not good enough?

    dont u think you’re standards might be just a little too high?

  56. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 7:37 pm

    I think AJack’s problem related to consistency, and that maybe he was a little lucky because his BABIP was high and at times really high:

    http://www.minorleaguesplits.c.....?pl=457706

  57. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    Ham Fighters,

    either that or your understanding of what he needs to do to make the big league squad is a little too low.

  58. Pat M. December 5th, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    Jackson I would think will require one more season fine tuning the skills needed to play effectively in the MLB….When he comes up, it has to be for good…..He’s close, but he’s not ready for prime time……

  59. m December 5th, 2009 at 7:40 pm

    I only heard that he was struggling. Striking out a lot at one point. And yes, the expectations are high because of his meteoric rise and he’s the position player heir apparent.

    At any rate, it doesn’t matter what I think. It’s the Yankees. And it seems apparent that he’s not quite ready. Which is to be expected because he flew threw each level in the minors.

    No offense intended.

  60. m December 5th, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    And by “threw”, I meant “through”.

  61. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    well, the yankees apparently think he’s going to be ready in the next year or so, so i’ve got others on my side.

    also, you can go look up your babaotjkehaobpalkdng all you want, i’ve actually gone and seen the guy play about 15 games.

    every 22 year old has things they have to work on, and he’s no different there. cut down on the k’s buy becoming more selective. but he’s coming and sooner rather than later.

  62. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 7:43 pm

    You didn’t say anything out of hand, m. I think the expectations for AJack were a little higher, maybe an OPS > .800.

  63. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    Ham Fighters

    Is babaotjkehaobpalkdng your word for facts?

  64. Nick in SF December 5th, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    m cheapshots AJax.

    Just great.

    What next, bag on him because he doesn’t have as many rings as Gardner or Melky????

  65. Steve S. December 5th, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    Thanks for the mention, Chad. Were still trying to save our name/website, if anyone has any ideas.

  66. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    btw i saw bernie play about the same # of games i saw jax play at aa (bernie at colonie, ajax at trenton) and ajax is closer than bernie was then

  67. Pat M. December 5th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    Confidence is as important as skills when you’re dealing with a good young ballplayer…..Think Mickey Mantle & Willie Mays….And those boys had talent

  68. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    Ham Fighters,

    Who doesn’t think he’s gonna make it next year or eventually? You’re argument seemed to be that his season was better than it was. If he had a truly great season, we’d probably plug him in for the `10 team. He didn’t make that possible.

  69. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 7:47 pm

    MLB was successful in getting BronxBombers (now NYYFans) to change their name. If your domain name isn’t considered fair use, I don’t think you can do much because the legal battle could be expensive.

  70. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    no, my point was that calling last season dissappointing or a regression is way out of line, thats all

  71. Doreen December 5th, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    Maybe I’m wrong, but you can’t take just the numbers with minor league guys, especially guys like AJax who is seriously on the the radar. I think they work on certain skills and so while the numbers may not be there, it doesn’t tell the whole story.

  72. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    it was a sort of disappointing season cause he didn’t show much power, but they were trying to shorten his swing, so maybe we shouldn’t have expected as much. They were doing the same thing with Nunez and some of their other prospects.

  73. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    I agree with Phil. I think the Yankees expected more. That doesn’t mean that they have doubts about his ultimate ceiling.

  74. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    The Yanks have known he would take some extra time since his youth was divided between hoops and baseball. They still think he can be an all-star CF eventually.

  75. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    lemme just ask, which of you guys have actually seen the guy play?

    and minor leagues stats are notoriously unreliable.

  76. Patrick the Prospect Hugger December 5th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    I think the best path the Yanks can take is to sign Cameron to replace Melky. Trade Melky or Gardner plus some prospects for a LF or a DH then sign Damon or Matsui.

  77. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    Ham Fighters

    I saw him at Trenton.

    Stats aren’t meaningless either.

  78. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    another guy who wants to go older and less atheletic…

  79. m December 5th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    To be fair, I haven’t seen him play. Logistics and all that…

    But I think Doreen saw him play at Trenton. IIRC she was very impressed with his athletic ability.

    So, in your opinion, Ham, when will he be ready? Spring? ASB?

  80. Doreen December 5th, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    I saw Jackson play at Trenton.

    He looked very good in the field.

    At Trenton, NO ONE looks good at the plate! :lol: (I’m exaggerating, of course, but you get the idea.) :)

  81. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    I’ve seen AJack play several times over the last two years on MiLB TV and listened to tons of his other games since he was in low A. Hamfighters, if you think eyeballin’ is the best form of scouting and numbers are unimportant, that’s your perogative, but the Yanks don’t think he’s ready and they’ve seen all of his games.

    Meanwhile, Boland over at that pay site has an article up about how AJack is getting shape early this year.

  82. Doreen December 5th, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    m -

    You have a really good memory!

  83. m December 5th, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    Doreen,

    Like a computer…or an elephant… :?

  84. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    “another guy who wants to go older and less atheletic…”

    Cameron is not unathletic. And signing Cameron for one year may actually aid AJack’s chances of becoming a Yankee, in that they could trade him for a “younger” player, like Granderson, instead.

  85. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    if u go back and read what i wrote, i said he could surprise people next year but they cant go into next season counting on him in thier OF.

    and the point that started all this was that i said calling last year a regression or a dissappointment just showed unrealistic expectations.

  86. Doreen December 5th, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    I don’t see why, if they could bat Jackson low in the lineup, he couldn’t do fine. But that means Cano is going to have to step it up and not get all “ohmygosh” because he’s batting in the 2 or 5 spot.

  87. DT - OPPC member December 5th, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    I don’t want Cameron – unless Ferris, Sloane and the 61′ Ferrari come with him.

  88. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    my older and less atheletic comment was regarding the guy who said trade melky and replace him with cameron.

  89. Joba in the pen December 5th, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    “I think the best path the Yanks can take is to sign Cameron to replace Melky.”

    No thanks. He’s old and strikes out too much.

  90. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 8:04 pm

    Ham Fighters

    Why dwell one word? She was right that more was expected from him.

  91. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    Ham Fighters

    What if they traded Melky in a package for another young player?

    Some of you really overestimate the negative impact of strikeouts.

  92. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    who’s dwelling?

  93. m December 5th, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    So that means he breaks as the 4th OF or gets a call up and takes it by the horns?

    I truly wanted your opinion on when you thought he’d be ready (doesn’t sound like you really truly think he is). My initial comment about “I don’t know how people could deem him ready at midseason” was directed at the person(s) who actually said he’ll be ready midseason.

    What I was really trying to get at was how can 3 months in AAA “season” Austin to the point where he can be a real solution to the OF problems which need to be solved by opening day.

  94. Doreen December 5th, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    I think in an ideal situation, Jackson starts the year at SWB, really does well, and is a mid-season call up, maybe ASB, maybe before.

    But we all know it’s not a perfect world.

    That, plus “ya never know.” Who woulda thunk Cervelli would do what he did offensively in 2009?

    I really think when players are being told to do certain things (basically changing their approach) you have to throw the numbers out. For one thing, they’re not performing intuitively. And Jackson will be a good fielder. If he is able to separate his offensive performance from his defensive performance, then he’s worth the risk of bringing up a tad early. Also, if they think he is the type of player to be able to learn on the go (with fits and starts, of course).

    The other thing is, how will the pressure affect him?

    Look at the ups and downs of Hughes and Joba. Can Jackson deal with that kind of thing?

    At some point, you have to take off the training wheels. Joba, Phil – of course. But maybe Jackson, too, if they can’t reach an agreement with Damon and there ends up being nothing better out there.

  95. Jeremy December 5th, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    Will someone please explain to me how the Red Sox farm system is better than the Yankees ?

    Because I don’t see it.

  96. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    “What I was really trying to get at was how can 3 months in AAA “season” Austin to the point where he can be a real solution to the OF problems which need to be solved by opening day.”

    Because development isn’t always linear.

  97. Pat M. December 5th, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    DT….Outstanding , As much as I’d love the Ferrari, I’m still leaning toward taking ole Sloane for a ride around the block, so to speak……..Think Curtis Granderson folks

  98. Arn December 5th, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    I don’t want Cameron – unless Ferris, Sloane and the 61? Ferrari come with him.

    That was genius!!!

  99. CR9 December 5th, 2009 at 8:12 pm

    Jeremy
    It’s not. There is nothing to see, except the bias of media and scouting organizations who enjoy whole heartedly the experience of stinksniffing and stinklicking the Red Sox.

  100. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 8:12 pm

    Granderson is going to cost AJack and IPK.

  101. Doreen December 5th, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    Pat M -

    Can they do Granderson AND Halladay, though?

    I am ready to say goodbye to Damon. I had hoped he wanted to stay with the Yankees more than he wanted to make a last killing. But the last month has pretty much shown me that he wants what Boras wants. i have heard nothing to convince me otherwise. I suppose we’ll learn more over the next week or so, but I’m not optimistic about Damon coming back.

    If they can’t get Matsui back, I do believe the way to go is Granderson. (I’m assuming Damon gone, by the way).

    But what are they going to address first?

    If they wait on Halladay, do they miss out on Granderson and vice versa.

    I almost feel like the Yankees need to have a lot of synchronicity going on this week.

  102. Pat M. December 5th, 2009 at 8:15 pm

    Rich in NJ…..If that’s the case, would you not make that deal ??? Maybe even expand it some to get Edwin Jackson….

  103. Joba in the pen December 5th, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    “stinksniffing and stinklicking the Red Sox.”

    How about keeping it clean. There are ladies reading and blogging. Show some class.

  104. DaSaint007 December 5th, 2009 at 8:20 pm

    Jackson, barring major regression or injury, should be up by mid-season. Melky and Gardner or someone like Cameron, can hold the fort till then.

    Yes, Cameron has been mentioned numerouos times, because even at his age, he’s still considered an excellent defensive CF. Having him on board would allow either Melky or Gardner to shift to LF, or you could still get a LF, and one of Melky or Gardner could be the 4th OF. It improves your OF defensively. And, Cameron will not require years nor most likely any more than $5-7 mil.

  105. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    i really think all the halladay speculation is wasted. it just doesnt make sense, i doesnt fit into what cash has been doing the past 5 years, it makes them older and locks them into an even higher payroll structure and puts them in very bad shape at the back end of the extension he will demand, when he and an bunch of other high paid yankees will be on the wrong side of 35.

    i dont think the yankees have any real interest in him, juts monitoring the cost to keep the eventual trading partner honest.

  106. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    Pat M.

    It depends on what they do about starting pitching. I think it’s a bigger need.

  107. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 8:23 pm

    I think Halladay makes a lot of sense for the Yanks since he’s so much better than the FA starters and they are looking for a starter.

  108. CR9 December 5th, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    Joba

    I respect what you said, but I’m pretty sure I’ve made those words up. Those words have no actual meaning.

    If it were to have a meaning, my meaning would be, the media loves the smell of the Red Sox.

  109. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    “i really think all the halladay speculation is wasted. it just doesnt make sense, i doesnt fit into what cash has been doing the past 5 years”

    Two or three years ago, Cash said that he wouldn’t have to sign FA pitchers anymore, and then he signed CC and AJ.

    If an opportunity presents itself that doesn’t cost the big three, it’s an offer too good to refuse.

    It would really increase their chances of winning two or three more WS in the next five years as long as everyone stayed healthy.

  110. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 8:26 pm

    sure, if they dont have to give up one of the big 3 it might be worth it, but it is going to cost at least one of the big 3, so thats a moot point.

  111. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    Then there’s the benefit Halladay brings to the other pitchers. He’s apparently great at spotting things and coaching up the other pitchers he’s around. Hughes has a lot of similarities to Doc and could really benefit. So could AJ, Joba and even kids like McAllister if he’s still around.

  112. Pat M. December 5th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    Doreen, I do think they can do both if that’s their intent…..Granderson gives you a All-Star CF for the next 4-5 years…….Tigers have zero farm system left, so the price may not be as high in right now type players….Halladay of course is going to be a 3 card monte game…..

  113. Doreen December 5th, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    Ham Fighters -

    I go back and forth on Halladay in my mind all the time.

    Between rejecting the idea outright based on history and thinking that if you can work it so the cost in players isn’t too great, it seems to be worth it.

    But, as you say, if they got him, 3/5 of their rotation is tied up with expensive guys from the outside. Leaves only 2/5 for internal, homegrown players. If Joba and/or Hughes take the next 2 spots, what of all those other pitchers that are developing on the farm?

    It really makes no sense to get Halladay. Except that he’s a winner. Does that trump all? It does make sense to appear interested to drive up the cost. And to force him either to switch leagues (no Boston) or to wait for FA. And then what, though?

    What if Halladay does not get traded? What if he plays all of 2010 with the Jays and has a really good year? A Halladay year?

    The same circumstances kind of apply.

    If they sign him as a FA, 3/5 of the rotation is taken up by CC, AJ and Doc. If Joba and/or Hughes are good, well, I guess it’s a good problem to have, but…???

  114. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    I do not think Austin Jackson will be up by mid-season – I think he will spend all season in AAA.

    Doreen, I don’t agree with you that the Yankees have had the training wheels on Jackson. He’s very young and he’s relatively inexperienced at baseball. If he’s not ready, he’s not ready – the hardest thing to do in sports is hit a baseball. I’d rather give him more time in AAA learning his craft, improving at it, then rush him because the big league club is betwixt and between outfielders.

  115. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    I doubt very much that it will cost one of the big three. There is a tiny market for Doc.

  116. Rich in NJ December 5th, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    I don’t think it will cost the big three.

  117. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    Betsy,

    Will you let us know when you think anything good is gonna happen, please?:)

  118. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    I really don’t see how obtaining Halladay is a problem. If the Yankees decide that they can live with the final price the Jays are asking, they will figure it out with the young guys. It’s not like the Yankees top SP prospects are banging on the door – the closest one is probably McAllister and he projects as a mid-rotation type. Their better prospects are further away. Andy at best will be back for one more year…………Now if the Yankees feel the Jays are asking for too much and they won’t budge, then they will hope Doc will become a FA.

  119. Buddy Biancalana December 5th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    randy isn’t much of a Halladay fan, really confusing to me.

  120. Matt December 5th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    Before any consideration for Camerson, sign Type B FA Marlon Byrd who can play all OF positions well.
    Sign Matsui and let Damon and Boras walk. Any Granderson deal should include Edwin Jackson which takes Halladay out of the picture.
    If payroll reduction is the flavor of the day, this solves the problems. If not, Halladay is in the picture.

  121. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    Phil, I really don’t get your comment…….exactly what was negative about what I said about Austin Jackson? That he needs more time? If that’s negative, well – I’m sorry.

  122. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    you guys are crazy, they’re not giving you doc halladay for melky, robertson and a couple of guys from high a ball.

    also remember there is a historic precedent here, cash never bit on santna because he didnt think he was worth the money and the prospects, and johan was 28 and the yankees were much more desperate for pitching then

  123. Doreen December 5th, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    I guess a lot depends on how motivated Toronto is to move Doc now. As time goes by, and if they get no “OMYGOSH” offers, perhaps Halladay could be had for a reasonable player cost, without losing Joba or Hughes (though I don’t want to lose Kennedy either). But if they’re okay with taking the draft picks, then all this has been a fun way to pass the time, no?

  124. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    I’m also one of the more positive posters here today – take a look at some of the posts in the last few minutes.

  125. DT - OPPC member December 5th, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    “DT….Outstanding , As much as I’d love the Ferrari, I’m still leaning toward taking ole Sloane for a ride around the block, so to speak…”

    Pat M – Sloane was a keeper. ;-)

    I’m just afraid we’d have to jack up Cameron and put him in reverse to try and get all those K’s off his odometer….

  126. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 8:35 pm

    Buddy, I didn’t get his comments about how Doc looks arrogant and not Yankee-like, but as I said before, different strokes for different folks….

  127. Doreen December 5th, 2009 at 8:35 pm

    I have heard that the best yankees prospects aren’t even in Triple A yet. So, that is something to consider at well, isn’t it?

  128. Buddy Biancalana December 5th, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    Betsy-

    Yeah, I thought were some odd observations about Halladay.

  129. Pat M. December 5th, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    If Cashman was to acquire Roy Halladay this week, does that mean Andy Pettite comes back ????

  130. crawdaddy December 5th, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    “If Cashman was to acquire Roy Halladay this week, does that mean Andy Pettite comes back ????”

    Yes, I think the Yankees want four proven ML starters in their 2010 rotation.

  131. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    the jays have a fanbase to think about too, yes its shrinking and ditching doc is going to be another big hit. they cant chuck the most popular player they’ve had in a decade and sell people on mcallister or cervelli or whoever, even jesus would be a stretch. if they dont get joba or phil, they wont trade with the yankees. and i dont see any way the yankees would send either of them, unless joba has fallen much further in thier estimate than i think he has.

  132. Doreen December 5th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    Pat M -

    Part of me thinks that Andy is going to retire.

    Part of me thinks that the only way the Yankees go seriously after Halladay is if Andy retires.

    There is really no reason for Andy to pitch another year, unless he just wants to, and his family is okay with it.

  133. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    Doreen,

    a lot of teams keep their best prospects at AA, and fill their AAA teams with veteran major league extras.

  134. CR9 December 5th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    How is Roy arrogant?

    He is not Dustin Pedrioa!

  135. Doreen December 5th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    Ham Fighters -

    Then Joba’s the key. He’s got the instant name recognition.

  136. m1kew December 5th, 2009 at 8:42 pm

    Figgins is a done deal is Bay next in Seattle? http://www.nesn.com/2009/12/ja.....iners.html

  137. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 8:43 pm

    yes, doreen i agree, joba’s the guy they can sell, although phil might do. thats why i just dont see it unless cash has really soured on joba.

  138. Doreen December 5th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    Phil -

    I reread my post.

    I meant they’re not even in Double A yet. :)

    I have heard what you said, that the best prospects are often at Double A ball, while the AAA team is filled with guys who are ML-fill-in-ready. Wouldn’t you say the Yankees SWB team is a mix though? Some AAAA guys who can go up and fill in and some serious prospects?

  139. crawdaddy December 5th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    “the jays have a fanbase to think about too, yes its shrinking and ditching doc is going to be another big hit. they cant chuck the most popular player they’ve had in a decade and sell people on mcallister or cervelli or whoever, even jesus would be a stretch. if they dont get joba or phil, they wont trade with the yankees. and i dont see any way the yankees would send either of them, unless joba has fallen much further in thier estimate than i think he has.”

    Ham, I like your thinking, but I think we’re in the minority here because most Yankee fans think the Yankees can get Halladay for a song and dance. It will be interesting to see what Toronto’s ownership decides in the matter.

  140. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 8:45 pm

    Ham,

    They don’t have enough of Roy left to get a big name for him. They have 1 year they’re selling and Roy has an NTC and has okayed the Yanks. He won’t accept a trade after the start of ST, and the Yanks will sign someone else from the list that got floated earlier today if Toronto doesn’t make them a deal they like. What’s more, Toronto will just turn around and blame their old GM for not trading Halladay at the July deadline, when they still couldn’t get anything like Joba or Hughes or Jesus in trade offers.

  141. Pat M. December 5th, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    DT, Sloane was off the charts….The scene in the cab, sporting her shades. Yikes…..Cameron and his odometer is an issue…….One of the best lines of the year !!!!

  142. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    pipe dreams.

  143. crawdaddy December 5th, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    Also, I do have to wonder if Cashman and his team have soured any on Joba or Hughes? What they say publicly might not match what they’re really thinking about those two.

  144. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    dont buy that bs posturing, doc will accept a trade if hes still on the jays and 15 games out in july.

  145. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2009 at 8:49 pm

    I haven’t seen Ajax play much, but he struck out often and didn’t hit for power. What makes him a better player at midseason than Gardner?

    I’m with Pat M on this-
    Granderson would supply the power from the left side lost by either Damon or Matsui, and working with Long IMO he would thrive with the Yankees. Trading Ajax and a minor league pitcher for him would be reasonable.

    At first I was on the fence about Halladay, but the Yankees need two quality starters who can give you innings to go with CC and AJ. I like Hughes and Joba fighting for the 5th spot, but their 5-6 inning guys right now. Lackey was hurt the beginning of both the last two seasons and wants AJ money. Of those that are incentive contract possibilities-Harden,Duscherer,Sheets,Wang,Bedard, I like Harden a strikeout pitcher who is still young, but like the others is good for 5-6 innings.
    Halladay is the best option, and no I don’t think you have to give up Montero for him.

    If the Yankees can trade for Halladay and Granderson, resign Pettitte, trading for a low cost option like DeJesus who as another lefty hitting .290 against lefties, with 13 OF assists and zero errors, who could bat second, we could move Swisher to DH.

    That lineup “might” look like this:
    Jeter SS
    DeJesus LF
    Granderson CF
    A-Rod 3B
    Teixera 1B
    Posada C
    Cano 2B
    Swisher DH
    Cabrera RF

    Younger, swifter, better OF defense, no loss of lefty power.

    Any thoughts?

  146. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 8:49 pm

    He won’t still be on the Jays with 15 days left in July.

  147. Doreen December 5th, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    Ham Fighters -

    Joba had such a difficult year in 2009, but there’s only so much that’s transparent to the fan base. We only know what we can see and what we’re told. There may be a situation where the Yankees are actually okay with what Joba accomplished; or not.

    If AJ is good AJ and Andy comes back and does as well as he did in 2009, then I think the Yankees can definitely go into 2010 with Hughes and Joba.

    BUT the problem I see is this. Pettitte, Joba and Hughes, all in a row, will potentially tax the bullpen. I’d love Doc in the rotation because he protects the bullpen. I almost would like for Pettitte to retire, the Yankees to get Halladay and then have Joba/Hughes/Kennedy/Aceves (some combo) to fill out the rotation.

  148. Pat M. December 5th, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    Doreen, So that’s why I was sent back to AA after 17 days at Syracuse….After all these decades I now understand……..

  149. crawdaddy December 5th, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    Phil,

    If I’m the Blue Jays I call BS on Halladay’s declaration about not approving any trade during the season. I’ve seen too many other players change their minds like Jake Peavy for example, especially if the Blue Jays suck in 2010 and it’s to the Yankees with a chance at a WS title.

  150. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 8:52 pm

    you guys are fooling yourselves. the jays want 2 or the big 3, but if they dont get a better offer from philly or boston or someone who we dont expect, they will accept a trade including one of them.. no chance they trade him without one of those guys in there. you’re dreaming.

  151. Pat M. December 5th, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    Doreen, just remember how the Yanks were scrambling for starters in Mid-august….Sergio sound famaliar ???

  152. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    If Cashman was to acquire Roy Halladay this week, does that mean Andy Pettite comes back ????
    ————————————————–

    If Halladay is traded for and the Yankees plan to sign another starter, not only Andy, but just about every FA pitcher would be drooling to be on that staff.

  153. Doreen December 5th, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    Pat M-

    You were simply too good for AAA!

    I only say what I’ve heard. I have no idea what’s true. I would tend to think that AAA is a combination, as I said, of the best prospects and some AAAA guys.

    Plus, am I wrong to think that if you have a lot of promising guys that there’s an overlap? For instance, Romine in AA and Montero in AAA, in order for both of them to get enough time catching?

  154. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    pat, the yankees won despite needing sergio, so that argues against making a big move for doc or whoever.

  155. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    craw,

    I think they know Halladay better than to call his bluff. But we’ll see.

  156. Pat M. December 5th, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    Ham, I have to think that the beancounters how are running Rogers estate want Hallady and his 16 million off the books…..Just get the best deal & the least costly deal and move on……That’s why Riccardi is out of a job….

  157. beck December 5th, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    I really think if the Yankees offer Damon $9MM,he will be offended.I personally hopes he goes,because he’ll be disgruntled. Yankees need to get younger anyway!

  158. Doreen December 5th, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    Pat M -

    I KNOW!!

    At least Sergio wasn’t Ponson, the sequel of the sequel. :?

    I don’t want them to trade ANY pitching. I love free agency. I’m willing to wait a year and see what happens. :)

    But I could change my mind in 5 minutes, too. :lol:

  159. crawdaddy December 5th, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    “Ham, I have to think that the beancounters how are running Rogers estate want Hallady and his 16 million off the books…..Just get the best deal & the least costly deal and move on……That’s why Riccardi is out of a job….”

    I you’re right and Ham and I are wrong.

  160. Pat M. December 5th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    Ham, the Postseason in 2010 is not going to be very friendly on rotations next October…..What happened in 09 played right into the Yanks hands, pitching wise…..

  161. Chris December 5th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    Open discussion for the rest of tonight – pros and cons of David DeJesus as a LF option.

  162. crawdaddy December 5th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    I hope you’re right and Ham and I are wrong.

  163. Pat M. December 5th, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    Craw, It’s not my call to say who is right and certainly not as to who is wrong…Especially when it’s you & Ham….

  164. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 9:02 pm

    halladay sells tickets, he may not bring in $16M in ticket sales, but he brings in alot, so losing him without getting some name that can sell some tickets (joba?) means you lose a chunk of the $16M you reduced the payroll by. also, this new g.m. is going to be judged based on what he brings back for doc, so he needs a name, too.

    also, do u guys remember that the red socks are hot for doc, too? they aren’t going to let the yankees pick him up for 2 guys from column a and 2 guys from columm aa.

  165. crawdaddy December 5th, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    “Craw, It’s not my call to say who is right and certainly not as to who is wrong…Especially when it’s you & Ham….”

    That’s not the point about right or wrong, if we’re wrong it works better in the Yankees favor which is what any Yankee fan should hope for, right?

  166. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 9:04 pm

    He’s not gonna be judged on what he gets for Doc cause they already blew that deal at the July deadline. They’re going to judge him on how he rebuilds after Doc.

  167. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2009 at 9:04 pm

    With Damon, Cashman will talk to Boras and Boras will tell him that Johnny wants three years. Cashman will probably say, right now we can’t do that, but get back to me when you’re serious!

    Matsui will probably be offered a low base, with incentive one year deal, with a time limit to accept or reject.

    Pettitte will probably be offered 10-11M for one year, also with a time limit to accept or declare himself retired.

  168. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 9:04 pm

    pat, i fully expect hughes to become a solid #3 next season, and if not him, joba or aceves may. and there are others available now, and there will be more available by the trade deadline. doc is not the only answer.

    btw, i LOVE halladay. i LOVE damon, too, but i just dont see either of them making sense for the yankees at what they are going to cost.

  169. DaSaint007 December 5th, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    According to some of you folks, the Yankees will acquire Halladay without trading Joba, Hughes, Montero, Jakson or Kennedy. That would be a magic act of Copperfield proportions.

    Either one (or more) of them has to be included, or it doesn’t happen. And if it doesn’t happen, I’m fine with that.

    As far as the rumors of DeJesus are concerned, no trade with KC would involve top-tier players. You can look at the trade for Nady and Marte to see an example. But I’d still prefer Cameron.

    What’s interesting about all this is Cashman pulls rabbits out his, um, hat, better than most. No one saw the Swisher, Nady or Marte trades coming, though there was some long-standing interest in Marte.

  170. Jack December 5th, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    Cash is not going to ST without 4 proven, reliable starters in the rotation. Hughes and Joba both being in the rotation in a smoke screen…

    He saw first hand what happened in 08, and what happened this year when we essentially were a 3 man rotation from July-October.

  171. crawdaddy December 5th, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    “Cash is not going to ST without 4 proven, reliable starters in the rotation. Hughes and Joba both being in the rotation in a smoke screen…

    He saw first hand what happened in 08, and what happened this year when we essentially were a 3 man rotation from July-October.”

    I agree with that……

  172. Spyder December 5th, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    I have a feeling that Jays ownership would rather bite the bullet and take the 2 draft picks rather than the backlash (from their own fans and from the rest of baseball) of trading their star franchise ace for Ian Kennedy+ some B level guys.

    There is a PR aspect to this deal as well. If we get Halladay without giving up one of the big 3, we are essentially stealing the best pitcher in baseball from a division rival.

  173. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    what cash saw happen this year with essentially a 3 man rotation was they won a championship.

  174. Yanks 1923 December 5th, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    Jack,

    Agree 100%.

    We cannot go another year with virtually a 3 man rotation. Can’t have 2 unknowns (Hughes/Joba) in the rotation at the same time if we’re expecting to repeat our title.

    And you know what they say about depth… it is nice until you have to use it.

  175. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    desaint is right, if you want halladay, you have to want him at the price he will command, which is AT LEAST one of the big 3. if you want to talk about the what if’s of a deal not including the big 3, you should first explain how a pig can fly, it aint gonna happen.

  176. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    Da Saint,

    So how did you find 5 members of the big 3?

  177. Orestas December 5th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    “what cash saw happen this year with essentially a 3 man rotation was they won a championship.”

    And it really isin’t a smart strategy to depend on. Andy will be another year older next year as well. Need 4 reliable starters.

  178. crawdaddy December 5th, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    “what cash saw happen this year with essentially a 3 man rotation was they won a championship.”

    He got lucky with circumstances and he might not be so lucky next year.

  179. beck December 5th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    Ham Fighter
    I don’t think waiting for unproven prospects,(if Toronto doesn’t trade now)staring the next year with unproven prospects isn’t more appealing to Toronto either.Say they wait,they’re worst off when he walks,with draft picks.

  180. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    Yankee Trader, the Yankees will make Damon and offer and likely give him a deadline. There will be no negotiation – they have placed a value on what Damon is worth for them and that will be that. They aren’t going to wait around while Damon waits out the FA process – that would take too long. The Yankees will give him an appropriate amount of time and then if he rejects the offer, they will move on.

    Craw, I don’t think anyone thinks they can get Doc for a song and a dance, but some are talking like it’s going to take the whole farm system and I don’t think that’s true. Frankly, I have no guess as to what the Jays will accept because I don’t know Anthopolous’ state of mind. Will he be inclined to negotiate? If the package he initially asks for is not acceptable, will he allow the Yankees to propose other packages? Will he allow the Yankees to submit a list of players the Jays can choose from? The Yankees aren’t going to insult the Jays by offering a crappy package…….so again, let’s see how serious Anthopolous is.

    No one knows Doc’s state of mind, it’s all just opinion and speculation. If he’s still with the Jays at the trading deadline, unless there is a deal to his preferred team, then IMO he’s very, very, very likely to ride it out to free agency.

  181. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    Open discussion for the rest of tonight – pros and cons of David DeJesus as a LF option.
    ——————————————-
    Chris:
    Pros-Lefty, hit .281, .290 against lefty pitching,9 triples, 13 assists in LF, no errors, 2010 salary 4.7M, with a 2011 club option at 6M, 29 years old. Royals want to free up $$$.

    Cons:
    Don’t know where his baserunning skills went, but thrown out 9 times in 13 base stealing attempts. OBA average at .347. Less power than Damon at 13 homers.

    Might be a decent option if Yankees don’t trade for Granderson, or in addition to Granderson, moving Melky to RF and Swisher to DH. IMO, don’t really like Marlon Byrd for 2-3 year FA contract.

  182. Jay DT December 5th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    We also had the luxury of resting our starters in September because we had such a big lead. We have no idea if we’ll coast to the division again like we did last year. The fact that we played meaningless games in September was the reason the 3 man rotation worked so well because guys were not tired.

    We got away with it this year, but the priority this offseason should be to go into camp with 4 solid starters who we have no questions about (aside from being healthy).

  183. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 9:17 pm

    But Jays fans will be thrilled with accepting picks? Picks who will be years away from the majors and who may not turn out to be half as good as the players the Jays might get now?

  184. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    ok i give up. you guys are right, toronto will take anything from the yankees for halladay and the red socks, phillies, mets and everyone else will just stand by and let it happen. they’ll take melky, kennedy and any 2 other guys that the yankees dont have any use for. and toronto fans will stand up and cheer and the yankees will win the next 6 world series with an average age of 39 1/2 years.
    you’ve convinced me.

  185. Tex Man December 5th, 2009 at 9:19 pm

    Our season was in the hands of a 38 yr old Andy Pettitte on 3 days rest. The other alternative was essentially punting away a game with Gaudin in the playoffs.

    Cash knows how lucky we got this year that the 3 man rotation worked. He has to go to Spring Training with 4 guys who he is confident in. Let Hughes/Joba compete for the 5th spot. We can afford to have one inconsistent starter with growing pains, not two at the same time.

  186. crawdaddy December 5th, 2009 at 9:20 pm

    “Craw, I don’t think anyone thinks they can get Doc for a song and a dance, but some are talking like it’s going to take the whole farm system and I don’t think that’s true.”

    I don’t think anyone here thinks it’s going to take our whole farm system.

  187. Abdababdaserser December 5th, 2009 at 9:21 pm

    I completely understand the concern the Jays organization would have about dealing Halladay to the Yankees. There are a number of ways to play it, and frankly the ground work has been started on getting the fans used to the idea that Doc is going to be flying away from them.

    Fans will never be satisfied with any deal that happens when it first happens. An example … Dealing Tabata for Nady and Marte. It was the end of the world for some Yankees fans. The more that was heard about the problems of Tabata in his family life and his apparent dedication, that was forgotten.

    The Jays have laid the groundwork that Halladay will be gone, be it this winter or next. They put out the word of being open to trading him and asked for way over the top prospects from a lot of different clubs that were probably never going to be accepted unless it was such an overpay that they couldn’t turn it down.

    The GM was fired.

    Now its coming out that Halladay requested a trade. (Doesn’t this sound a little like Boston’s MO of putting little items out there, bit by bit, to break down the fans from supporting him?) Its out there that he wants the East Coast. He wants to ST in Florida. He doesn’t really want the NL because he doesn’t want to bat. He is open to being traded to NYY, Boston, Phillies. Those have been the only teams so named directly.

    As a fan, while you hate for a trade to made to one of your division rivals, you also become resigned to the player leaving. You want some value out of it. Poisoning the well a bit helps the process toward being happy to get more than just 2 lowly draft picks (though some will never accept any package as good enough).

    This is a similar game plan that the Twins did with Santana. The fan demands for the trade on all sides were uneven. They ended up pretty much giving Santana away to get him out of the league. And Smith is still being ripped for it.

    If the Jays can get decent value with 2 players who can play right away that fill some holes they have at low cost, they will look good enough to placate the fans. More than 2 and they can really sell that well.

  188. m December 5th, 2009 at 9:22 pm

    CC and Tex and Halladay. All three of the best at what they do.

    Now, granted, Halladay’s different than the others in that technicaly he’s not a FA.

    The brass ring is there, will the Yankees go for it? They are looking for another pitcher to go with Andy.

    CC
    AJ
    ??
    Andy
    Joba/Hughes (my bet is Huuughes because he can do no wrong. At least that’s what someone accused me of thinking last night. ;) )

  189. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2009 at 9:22 pm

    Definitely agree, and I believe the Yankee brass feels the same way, that they can’t depend on 3 starters on 3 days rest getting them thru the playoffs and winning the WS, especially if they shorten the days off during the playoffs like they’re talking about.

  190. Ham Fighters December 5th, 2009 at 9:22 pm

    “Our season was in the hands of a 38 yr old Andy Pettitte on 3 days rest.”

    yeah, with cc sabathia standing behind him in case he didnt come through.

  191. Spyder December 5th, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    To be honest, I would bet there would be a large percentage of Jays fans who would be happier with picks than giving him away to the Yankees for B-level prospects.

    Kennedy and McAllister are nothing special… middle of the rotation guys. Romine? Still in A-Ball and according to guys like GB, might be destined for the OF anyway unless he improves his footwork. Pena? A utility SS.

    Let’s be honest, that is not a great package. A safer bet than picks, yes, but nothing they HAVE to accept.

  192. squidward December 5th, 2009 at 9:25 pm

    “But Jays fans will be thrilled with accepting picks? Picks who will be years away from the majors and who may not turn out to be half as good as the players the Jays might get now?”

    Think the fans in Minnesota would have liked a year of Santana and the picks or the guys they got in trade? If the Jays don’t come out with at least one high ceiling young player, and the Yankees have 3 or 4 such players that are in or close to the bigs, then it’s probably not worth doing for them.

  193. Forntoso December 5th, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    Ham – But the extra rest in September allowed us to pull that off. We might not have such a comfortable division lead next year, we might have to fight till the end.

    It is better to go to camp with 4 reliable starters.

  194. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    Aba, per a Richard Griffith’s article I posted recently (a Toronto beat writer), Doc did not request a trade. Here’s the link:

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/.....trade-talk

  195. squidward December 5th, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    “If the Jays can get decent value with 2 players who can play right away that fill some holes they have at low cost”

    Depends on the two players. Can’t be guys like Gardner or Pena. Can’t sell that.

  196. beck December 5th, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    YanTrader
    When Boras gives Cashman his pipe dream price tag for Damon.Cashman will say no,and won’t get back to him.He’ll do like he did with Abreu,announce the new left fielder!!

    Damon and his wife were(under Boras direction of course)tacky with their press releases,dropping that they’re teams interested and calling.

    Last year Abreu said he didn’t know Cashman had moved on,until Swisher was announced.

    Cashman was on amission last year and wasn’t going to be stopped!

  197. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    Please read this attached article about LF Yankee options, that you should find interesting:

    http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....day-20762/

  198. Forntoso December 5th, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    “Kennedy and McAllister are nothing special… middle of the rotation guys. Romine? Still in A-Ball and according to guys like GB, might be destined for the OF anyway unless he improves his footwork. Pena? A utility SS.”

    Bingo. People can try and paint it any way they want– that proposed package is not very good. Not one guy in there who is a good bet to become an above average player in baseball.

    Minnesota used that same rationale— the Mets players would be better than picks, and that didn’t turn out to be the case, did it?

    I can easily see the Jays opting for picks over that package. Now if we add Jackson to that, then it might change things.

  199. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    Squid, Joba/Hughes/Montero are the only players in the farm system with high ceilings? The Jays apparently like Jackson…..there’s one. They also want a catcher….I’m sure they can be persuaded on Romine or one of the others. I have or no idea what the Jays will be willing to accept.

  200. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    I believe they have their mind on a specific LF, but it’s not Damon, and I don’t know who it is.

  201. crawdaddy December 5th, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    The following is an interesting excerpt from the article Betsy linked to. It goes back to my assertion about what is the Toronto ownership is going to do about Halladay. JP took the fall publicly and he should have for his past failures as the Jays GM.

    “Ricciardi completely botched the Halladay situation leading up to the deadline. The truth is, he never controlled it.

    The belief is that Ricciardi talked the talk but was unable to walk the walk as far as a trade. He lined up all potential Halladay suitors, playing one against the other in the court of public opinion, keeping certain media informed, then pulled the rug from under them all.

    Over the final two months, potential Halladay offers that had supposedly been made were leaked out from the Red Sox and others. It seemed like Ricciardi blew it.

    The fact is, by late July, Rogers ownership and Paul Beeston knew Ricciardi was on his way out. They knew that, as such, having the departing GM make the franchise’s biggest trade since Dec. 5, 1990, for Roberto Alomar and Joe Carter, made no sense.

    Label what Ricciardi did a fact-finding mission to see who was interested and for what. He never had the ability to pull the trigger. But all that info has given Anthopoulos a head start on the real GM players.”

  202. m December 5th, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    Phil,

    I agree. I believe, in fact I’m almost positive, that Cashman watched every game. Damon made some great plays, but on the other hand…

    Still won’t ever forget stealing 2nd & 3rd on the same pitch, though. That’ll always be a classic.

  203. squidward December 5th, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    “Squid, Joba/Hughes/Montero are the only players in the farm system with high ceilings?”

    Ajax too. Again I’m talking about in the bigs or MLB ready. Those are the guys. IPK, McAllister, Pena, etc are not high ceiling guys. Some guys below AA, like Romine and others are, but the Jays will have a tough time selling that.

  204. Drain003 December 5th, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    I also doubt Cashman would treat guys like Banelous or Vizcaino as “throw-ins” as a 4th player in a deal.

  205. crawdaddy December 5th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    “I believe they have their mind on a specific LF, but it’s not Damon, and I don’t know who it is.”

    I think they want Granderson and will shift Melky over to LF to share with another outfielder with a stronger bat than Melky like maybe Nady on an incentive one year deal.

  206. Pat M. December 5th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    Keep in Mind, The Old Man stated that he wants another Championship…..That is the echoing voice that will linger in Hal, Cashman & everyone else’s ears as they embark to Indy……Makes you wonder how much clout King Geo still has ……

  207. squidward December 5th, 2009 at 9:38 pm

    “But all that info has given Anthopoulos a head start on the real GM players.”

    Has it?

  208. Tex Man December 5th, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Deolis Guera was supposed to be a “high ceiling” guy from the Mets that they traded to the Twins, but he was in A-Ball.

    Now for the past 2 years, he has put up average numbers and doesn’t look like much of a prospect.

    It’s not like we can entice the Jays with some teenagers in A-Ball. Maybe as a throw in, but not as a centerpiece. Very risky strategy for GMs.

  209. squidward December 5th, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    “Keep in Mind, The Old Man stated that he wants another Championship”

    This would represent the 33rd consecutive year such a proclamation has been issued.

  210. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    Betsy and Beck-

    I was making a “joke”. When Boras hunts down Cashman as soon as he steps in the lobby tomorrow and tells him he wants a 3 year deal for Damon, I think Cashman will be very diplomatic. Something like this will be said.

    “Scott, the Yankees appreciate how Damon has performed for us for the last four years and we realize he appreciates us oubidding the Red Sox, and giving him the oppotunity to be a New York Yankee. However, my hands are tied, and we’re already in the process of looking at other options for LF, unless Johnny can take a one year deal with a possible club option on the second year. Need to go know and get settled in my room, as you can see my cell phones are already ringing off the hook. See you around later Scott. How’s the wife by the way.”

  211. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    Isn’t it up to the GM to sell it to the fans? I’m not talking about the Yankees package in particular, but let’s face it – the fans aren’t going to be happy anyway. The fans probably want Joba or Hughes because they are the only Yankee prospects they know. Anthopolous knows a lot more about the Yankees (or Sox or whomever) farm system than the fans.

  212. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    I think they want Granderson and will shift Melky over to LF to share with another outfielder with a stronger bat than Melky like maybe Nady on an incentive one year deal.
    ————————————————–

    I agree with Granderson, but Nady after TJ surgery might not be counted on to make the throws from RF. Maybe as a DH to start, until he builds up arm strength.

  213. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    Yankee Trader, I think it would go more like this:

    “Scott, we love Johnny and appreciate everything he’s done for us. However, we have to look to the future and while we would love Johnny back for a chance to defend our title, we have to start getting younger and more athletic. This(whatever the offer is) is as high as we can and are willing to go; if that’s unacceptable to you, we understand and wish Johnny the best of luck”…..

    Either way, the song’s the same -Johnny on another team. I hope for his sake that he’s happy with his new team and doesn’t regret choosing more $$ and security over the chance to defend the WS.

  214. m December 5th, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    Put yourselves in the Jays fans’ shoes. You’re going to trade CC in his last year. Do you wait 5 years for those picks to develop? Or do you take a decent package from your arch-enemy?

    Personally? I think the Jays fans would totally fall for Jobamania.

    This is really up to Cash. Do you want Doc? How badly do you want Doc?

  215. Alex December 5th, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    Sure, Anthopolous can try and sell the package, but you can’t put perfume on a skunk. Any Jays fans who does a little research will find out that McAllister/Kennedy are middle-of-the-rotation types, Romine is still only in A-Ball with questions of if he’ll remain at catcher, and Pena/Gardner or whoever are non-prospects.

    Even A-Jax has to show some more power, take more walks, and cut down on the Ks if he wants to be in the bigs, so it’s not like he is a shoe-in to be an MLB player. Of course, he is a good prospect, but there is only so much you can get excited about with him based on his body of work. He still has plenty of areas to improve in.

    It’s not inconceivable that he opts for picks over that package.

  216. squidward December 5th, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    “Isn’t it up to the GM to sell it to the fans?”

    Sure. But a salesman is as good as what he’s selling. Selling “this Banuelos (sp?) kid will be a high end starter in 2014″ is not easy when you’re moving Halladay. Selling “Phil Hughes helps us right now and for the next X number of years” is a little easier.

  217. crawdaddy December 5th, 2009 at 9:49 pm

    “I agree with Granderson, but Nady after TJ surgery might not be counted on to make the throws from RF. Maybe as a DH to start, until he builds up arm strength.”

    You mean throws from LF, but he’s only one candidate I suggested and I’m not concerned about the TJ surgery if he’s throwing a baseball in the near future which is what I heard. Anyhow, the Yankees know his medical condition better than any team so I’ll leave it to them for that determination. I wouldn’t want Melky for a full time LF even with Granderson in CF. I would want a stronger bat to share that position.

  218. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 9:49 pm

    craw,

    the problem with that is that Halladay has lost a lot of value since July. So if Ricciardi was to have just priced things it would have been absolutely pointless, because the value would be different for the new GM. Plus we already know that Doc shot down trades to the Twins and Rangers. Ricciardi wasn’t pricing things, he was trying to make a deal. Doc shot him down, then he got fired and now the priced they can get for Doc is way down.

  219. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2009 at 9:49 pm

    I see the pros and cons of trading for Halladay and giving him an extension at the cost of some players I’d love to keep, but i must admit, if I wake up this week to the announcement that “The Yankees have a new Doctor in the House,” I’ll be excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  220. Jack December 5th, 2009 at 9:50 pm

    This is where Joba’s hype could help us. He is a guy who everyone in baseball knows. He already has commercials, T-shirts, and the whole bit. People remember seeing his 99 MPH fastball on SportsCenter, even if it has since disappeared.

    He is a guy who I bet Jays fans will like— even more than Hughes.

  221. Timothy December 5th, 2009 at 9:52 pm

    How do we know that the Jays GM doesn’t like the Sox prospects better than ours?

    As Yankee fans, it is our jobs to devalue everything Sox, but maybe they do have pieces that are more attractive to the Jays than we do (excluding Buchholz/Kelly).

  222. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    Squid, but if Anthopolous can’t sell “Banuelos will help is in 2014″ (using Banuelos since he was brought up…..no clue if the Yanks would trade him or not – I hope not), then how can he sell taking picks for Halladay? Those kids may never be that good, they may get derailed on their way to the majors……It doesn’t really matter what we think of the Yankees prospects, just what the Jays think.

  223. crawdaddy December 5th, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    Phil,

    We’re only guessing either way. I just hope this gets settled in the next couple of weeks because it seems like we’ve been talking about this Halladay situation for too long as it is.

  224. damon enjoy 27...think 28 December 5th, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    Tebow(Fla Gators )beaten by Alabama(Crimson Tide) 32-13,Tebow sitting on the sideline crying.
    SI was right Jeter has it going on!!

  225. squidward December 5th, 2009 at 9:54 pm

    “but maybe they do have pieces that are more attractive to the Jays than we do (excluding Buchholz/Kelly).”

    They probably don’t. They are pretty in AA and AAA.

  226. crawdaddy December 5th, 2009 at 9:54 pm

    “How do we know that the Jays GM doesn’t like the Sox prospects better than ours?”

    Truth be told, we know very little about what any of these GMs think about prospects.

  227. squidward December 5th, 2009 at 9:55 pm

    *pretty LIGHT in AA and AAA.

  228. DaSaint007 December 5th, 2009 at 9:55 pm

    Phil, you’re missing your calling. George Carlin has nothing on you.

    The Big Three were: Hughes, Joba, and Jackson.
    Then it became Hughes, Joba, Jackson and Montero.
    To me, there are 5 players I like, and for ME, they are:
    Hughes, Kennedy, Jackson, Joba, and Montero – so yeah, the Big 5.

    But I’ve been around long enough – though not as long as you – to know that chances are you can’t keep all 5, and frankly, under best-case scenario, there’s probably only room for 4 to make the big club.

  229. squidward December 5th, 2009 at 9:56 pm

    “then how can he sell taking picks for Halladay?”

    Because the picks come with a year of Halladay.

  230. 66 stripes December 5th, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    m,

    Honestly… considering all the factors, I take the picks. Are the Kennedys or McAllister’s of the world really going to help me overtake the Yanks/Sox in the future?

    I’d gamble that I find a better player with the picks and maybe sell some more tickets this year.

  231. squidward December 5th, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    “To me, there are 5 players I like, and for ME, they are:
    Hughes, Kennedy, Jackson, Joba, and Montero – so yeah, the Big 5″

    Not much evidence in the outside world (read: Yankees fanbase) to suggest that Kennedy has the cache to mentioned with the other 4.

  232. damon enjoy 27...think 28 December 5th, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    Cardinals want Nady big time.Matt might be a no sign.

  233. Jay DT December 5th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    As soon as they trade Halladay, their season ticket sales are going to take a huge hit as well.

    Plus they have to deal with the prospect of trading their star ace to a division rival. If he signs there as a FA, so be it, but to help them has to leave a bitter taste in their mouth.

    Anthopolous is not just taking the baseball aspects into account. As a GM, he has to deal with the organizational and PR facets as well.

  234. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    DaSaint,

    I’m an award winning comedy writer and producer. I didn’t miss my calling at all. All I’ve said is that we can make a deal for Halladay and keep the big three, or we’ll just sign Lackey.

  235. m December 5th, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    66,

    maybe, but if CC is still peeved because he thought he was going to be traded the season before and was still stuck with a loser….

    :lol:

  236. Jack December 5th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    Even if the picks don’t turn into anything… did the Jays really miss out on anything by turning down a package headlined by Ian Kennedy and Zach McAllister? Romine is only in A-Ball and still has to learn how to walk if he wants to make it to the big leagues.

    The risks of taking the 2 picks are not much greater than accepting a package of average players from a hated division rival.

  237. squidward December 5th, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    “maybe, but if CC is still peeved because he thought he was going to be traded the season before and was still stuck with a loser…”

    ?

    CC was in the 7th game of the ALCS in ’07 and traded to a playoff team in ’08.

  238. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    Jack,

    Maybe, as Anthopolous may not last long enough to see the picks come up through their system.

  239. m December 5th, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    the hypothetical question asked you to put yourself in the shoes of jays fans…

  240. damon enjoy 27...think 28 December 5th, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    Newsday.com has a poll:Which FA should the Yankees pursue the hardest this off season?

    Andy
    Lackey
    Halladay
    Damon
    Bay Figins(off the block)
    A.Chapman
    someone else
    Matsui

  241. CY Young December 5th, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    Cashman knows a “take it or leave it” proposition to Damon will fall on deaf years. Boras drags all his clients out to January… I doubt he makes an exception here. Damon seems like he wants the most money. His comment after we declined arbitration was “That is a good thing because now I’ll be more attractive to teams because they don’t have to give up picks”. Sounds like someone chasing the biggest deal.

    Damon is gonna go to San Fran or Chicago and we’re going to sign Cameron as a 1 yr stop gap to A-Jack.

  242. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    Forntoso
    December 5th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
    “Kennedy and McAllister are nothing special… middle of the rotation guys. Romine? Still in A-Ball and according to guys like GB, might be destined for the OF anyway unless he improves his footwork. Pena? A utility SS.”

    ————————————————————

    You’re twisting what I said about Romine. I said that I would like to see Romine moved to an outfield corner spot because NYYs are short of good corner outfielders and Romine can hit like one, has a very good arm and has the speed to play left and the arm to play right. NYY has said nothing about him playing there. It is, however, a way to get both Montero and Romine in the same line-up. It also gives the yanks three catchers.

    As far as McAllister goes, he’s not Nolan Ryan, but, he doesn’t have to be. He has 3 very good pitches, but, mainly, he has control and he knows how to pitch. There’s no reason that he couldn’t be a #2 type pitcher. Pena’s got a chance to start with quite a few teams at short. He’s just not starting for the Yanks any time soon. They have some other guy playing there.

  243. ZMAN December 5th, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    If I’m a Jays fan, my response to the proposed Kennedy package is, “Wake me up when the Maple Leafs start playing”.

  244. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    McAllister lead the Eastern League in ERA as one of the younger pitchers there. He’s good and he still has time to polish up an out pitch.

  245. Danny December 5th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    Just sign Lackey and keep the kids.

  246. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    If the Jays gave a crap about their fans they wouldn’t have sucked for this long.

  247. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    Actually, that last response of mine goes to “Spyder”.

  248. DaSaint007 December 5th, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    Phil, I shouldda known! LOL!

    It’s already been mentioned that the likely candidates for Halladay are the Yankees, Red Sox and Phillies.

    We’ve discussed ad nauseum about the Yankees chances.
    boston could make a run for it, improving their rotation: Halladay, Beckett, Dice-K, Lester, and Wakefied. This would ordinarily put them in a good position for 2010, especially since Beckett is in the last year of his contract, and IMO he’s not a lock for an extension. Halladay (if granted an extension), would act as insurance to Beckett leaving, or would be a great complement to him if he were resigned.

    I’ve heard the Phillies mentioned, and Halladay and Lee at the top of that rotation would be formidable, but I’m not sure he would want to switch leagues, and if so, may not grant an extension, and just play out his last year until FA. I know nothing of their minor league system, so I won’t even pretend to know what they could offer.

    So it’s probably Yankees vs boston – again. IF boston were to acquire him, I think it would change the equation of what we do next in the outfield (to generate additional offense considering what we’ve lost to FA), and would probably push Cash to sign another FA pitcher, regardless of Pettitte’s decision.

    Oh, and Squid, Kennedy has upside, don’t think they organization doesn’t recognize that.

  249. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 10:23 pm

    Phillies can’t afford him. Boston’s gonna use what it has for a bat. We’re in the catbird seat and will take him as long as Toronto doesn’t push their luck. If they do, we’ll sign Lackey or Harden.

  250. squidward December 5th, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    “Oh, and Squid, Kennedy has upside, don’t think they organization doesn’t recognize that”

    Not saying no upside. Just not a real high ceiling. #3 starter on a bad team on his best day IMO. That’s considerably better than what he’s shown to this point.

  251. damon enjoy 27...think 28 December 5th, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    Why worry about Toronto’s ticket sales.They’ll get the corporate welfare checks as usual.Now they will have to actually use some to get players.What a novel idea.d

  252. squidward December 5th, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    “Why worry about Toronto’s ticket sales.They’ll get the corporate welfare checks as usual.Now they will have to actually use some to get players.What a novel idea.d”

    Not a fair argument in the Jays case. They have spent money. They were up around $100M in ’08 and were over $90M last year til moving Rios. Certainly can’t say they spent it well, but they did spend it.

  253. Rose December 5th, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    “Either way, the song’s the same -Johnny on another team. I hope for his sake that he’s happy with his new team and doesn’t regret choosing more $$ and security over the chance to defend the WS.”

    I agree. Damon is a gamer and I’ll miss him (not his OF play). But like most players he and Boras will go for the money and I don’t think it will be Yankee money.

  254. Corey December 5th, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    I wouldn’t mind the Yankees giving up one of Joba or Hughes for Halladay but certainly not both. I may sound nuts but I think Montero should never be traded. As for the of situation. Damon should get offered 2 years at the most. If he doesn’t want that then Byrd or Cameron wouldn’t be too bad. Bringing back Matsui should be a no brainer. The guy is an amazing clutch hitter and dh is perfect for him.

  255. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    Kennedy has pitched like he could be a 3 on a good team in the minors and been a little star crossed in the majors. Remember he made it all the way through the minors in a single season and not a lot of picks do that. He had a weird start in `08 and the aneurysm this past year. Still he’s been rather bullet proof in the minors and showed an above average fastball to go with his curve and change in the AFL coming off the surgery.

  256. DaSaint007 December 5th, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    Phil, thanks for the info on Kennedy. I know you’ve mentioned before that you don’t think the Yankees are going to add an arm from outside the organization to the pen. Do you still feel that way or is that just in terms of a FA arm?

  257. squidward December 5th, 2009 at 10:41 pm

    We’ll agree to disagree Phil. His stuff doesn’t look good enough to me. If he’s not on the black, he’s going to get killed. Jury’s still out on whether he can be on the black enough to survive. I could be wrong. I’m no scout. To me, he pitched scared last time up. He pitched as if he knew he get killed if he caught the plate (he was right) and pitched like it.

    As for his quick climb up the minor league ladder, that’s not particularly unusual for a college kids drafted in the 1st round.

  258. Bo Knows December 5th, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    Great discussion people. Fun reading. The only thing I would add to the discussion is trading for and extending Halladay puts the Yankee budget over 200 mil for the next four to five years. Personally I think this would be counterproductive with the rest of the owners who have had to downsize and cost the Yankees down the road. Halladay – great pitcher, wrong year. Last year would have been ideal. Add Halladay to the budget and they’re at 190 mil and still have to add a pitcher, LF and DH.

  259. Sey December 5th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    When you look at Kennedy— he just LOOKS like a Blue Jay, doesn’t he?

    I suspect that will be his future his fairly shortly.

  260. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 10:46 pm

    It’s unusual for a Yankee pick. The thing with Kennedy is he’s always had good KRates, he does something very right most of the time. He doesn’t have blow away stuff, but when he has his curve, change and above average fastball, he knows how to mix them to get K’s and always has. He’s a pitchability guy with three nice pitches.

    And I do think they shouldn’t spend any money on outside relievers, but that doesn’t mean they won’t.

  261. jake December 5th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    It just seems that Kennedy pitches well in the minors, but does not carry that over into the major leagues.

  262. Wait till we do it all over Again December 5th, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    I wouldn’t trade Joba, Hughes, or Montero for Halladay.

  263. Wait till we do it all over Again December 5th, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    I think Kennedy can be a good middle of the rotation starter one day.

  264. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    From MLB-Rumors-R-Us. Take it for what it’s worth since it’s a Fox rumor.

    ————————————————————

    Kevin Towers is leaning towards accepting an offer from his close friend – Yankees GM Brian Cashman, according to Tracy Ringolsby of FOX Sports

  265. Alex December 5th, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    Wow, Nebraska might pull this off

  266. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    Apparently the other Cuban lefty Arguelles is about to sign with the Royals, proving we really had no interest and other interest was overstated.

  267. DaSaint007 December 5th, 2009 at 11:31 pm

    I think it’s fair to say that having interest, and signing someone is two different things. The former doesn’t aways lead to the latter.

  268. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    It’s also fair to say a lot of the stuff that gets floated in the hotstove is BS.

  269. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    I thought Romine was in AA – is that where he’s going to play this year?

  270. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    SI says Figgins to the Mariners is done for 4/36.

  271. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    Phil, do you write for tv shows?

    Hot stove, hot air……….I’m trying to not get my hopes up about Halladay, lol. I don’t want him at the wrong price, but then I don’t want anyone else to have him either.

  272. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    Betsy,

    Romine was in High A, he’ll be in Trenton this coming season.

  273. Wait till we do it all over Again December 5th, 2009 at 11:40 pm

    Longhorns win.

  274. DaSaint007 December 5th, 2009 at 11:41 pm

    Hot Stove generally = BS. True. Pure, unadulterated, sometimes educated, speculation.

    Halo’s appear to have lost Figgins. Div rival gets him. Are Halo’s in cost cutting mode? Let’s see if they find the change for Lackey or lose him too to Seattle.

  275. Wait till we do it all over Again December 5th, 2009 at 11:41 pm

    I’d rather the Red Sox get him (Halladay) but have to give up half their farm than us get him and having given up half of our farm.

  276. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 11:41 pm

    Betsy,

    write em and produce em. In development on new ones now.

  277. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    Wait Till,

    neither of those scenarios will happen and half of their farm isn’t worth a quarter of our farm.

  278. m December 5th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    What Figgins tells is…the market’s pretty weak if he’s the 3rd ranked position player.

  279. Wait till we do it all over Again December 5th, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    Phil-I agree with you (although the Sox farm isn’t bad). I think Halladay stays put, and if he moves anywhere my guess is LA/Anaheim.

  280. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    Phil, wow – that’s pretty cool. Pretty cool? That’s great….good luck with your new shows! Since you’re in comedy, let me ask you what you think the all time best comedy is….

    Also, thanks for the info on Romine!

  281. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 11:49 pm

    I really don’t think Doc is going to Anaheim and, if he does, he’s not signing an extension.

  282. Alex December 5th, 2009 at 11:49 pm

    LA won’t trade for him if they can’t extend him.

    I mean, they could, but they won’t give up anything significant. And if that is the case, then why would TOR deal him there if they get nothing in return?

    Though an average package from LA is worth more to them than an average one from us.

  283. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    GB, yep – I posted that earlier in the day. I hope Cash gets his man…….(Towers)

  284. DaSaint007 December 5th, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    Hey Phil,

    About 8 yrs ago, maybe more, I tried to get a friend of mine, also a producer, and an Emmy award winning one at that, to help me start a network focusing on home repairs, design, fashion, etc. Anything/everything design related. She said it would never sell.

    Years later: HGTV. Oh well.

  285. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    Wait Till,

    We’ll get him, but it won’t be for half of our farm and we won’t be bidding against the Sox.

  286. Betsy - high on pie December 5th, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    Alex, I agree……so I think Doc may just stay put. I don’t understand why people think, this close to FA and the chance to go exactly where he wants for the rest of his career, that Doc is going to (out of desperation) sign with a team that doesn’t meet all his criteria.

  287. Wait till we do it all over Again December 5th, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    So he doesn’t sign an extension with LA. I still think he’s more likely to go there than to any AL East team.

  288. Wait till we do it all over Again December 5th, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    phil-If we have to give up even 1 of Phil, Joba, or Montero I don’t want him.

  289. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    DaSaint,

    Let no one else set your limits. Follow your dreams and don’t stop till they’re real.

  290. Phil December 5th, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    Wait Till,

    we probably won’s have to. Cash is shrewd and patient.

  291. Wait till we do it all over Again December 5th, 2009 at 11:56 pm

    I think that if no other team gets Halladay, and the Yankees don’t give up one of the big three, that means Halladay stays put.

    If we’re patient we can have him or Lee as FA’s next year. 1 of them is bound to hit FA.

  292. Joe December 5th, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    Halladay can’t assume that us and the Sox will be all over him next off-season.

    What if Mauer hits the FA market as well and us or Boston allot all of our money to him?

    What if Lee hits the market and demands a lesser contract?

    What if Joba and Hughes both have break out years and we are not interested in Doc next off-season?

    Halladay may want to play for us or Boston, but he may not get his wish if other variables occur. Just like we can’t plan for a free agent next winter (like Crawford), a free agent can’t plan to go to a specific team a year ahead of time.

  293. Wait till we do it all over Again December 5th, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    That’s not true, you can plan for FA in the future. We didn’t get Santana only because Cash wanted CC.

  294. Wait till we do it all over Again December 5th, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    The odds of every big-market team being uninterested in Halladay next year are very slim.

  295. GreenBeret7 December 6th, 2009 at 12:00 am

    Betsy – high on pie
    December 5th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
    GB, yep – I posted that earlier in the day. I hope Cash gets his man…….(Towers)

    ————————————————————

    Sorry, Betsy. I missed your post. I usually only look at the absurd remarks. Ones that make sense are boring….the ridiculous ones are fun. LMAO.

  296. Tank December 6th, 2009 at 12:01 am

    SI_JonHeyman

    #yanks will call andy pettitte soon. they hope he returns but want to add a starter anyway (doc, lackey, wolf top list).

  297. DaSaint007 December 6th, 2009 at 12:04 am

    Thx Phil.

    Hopefully Andy can make up his mind this week, or he may miss out on a rotation spot.

  298. Joe December 6th, 2009 at 12:06 am

    Wait,

    And Cashman admitted that he took a huge risk, but felt it was worth taking. CC was by no means a lock to come here. What if Boston or the LA Dodgers or someone acquired him at the deadline instead of Milwaukee and extended him?

  299. Phil December 6th, 2009 at 12:07 am

    I wouldn’t be shocked if we got Doc and then Andy announced his retirement, and then it came out we knew he was retiring for the last few weeks.

  300. Wait till we do it all over Again December 6th, 2009 at 12:08 am

    It’s a risk I think is worth taking again, seeing as once again we could keep our prospects and not 1 but 2 big FA starters will be on the market next year.

  301. Coconut December 6th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    Phil,

    I too have a sneaking suspicious that Andy is going to retire.

    Will certainly put more pressure on Cash to get Doc or Lackey if that is the case

  302. Yanks 87 December 6th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    Why would we sign Mauer when we have Montero?

  303. Betsy - high on pie December 6th, 2009 at 12:15 am

    GB, don’t apologize; I realize you are sort of old and probably have bad eyes. You might need to wait for the game threads to catch the absurd posts……right now, we’re getting too many sensible ones. Where’s Matt, anyway?

    Joe, I don’t even care about Mauer because, IMO, there’s no way Minny isn’t re-signing him.

    Good for the Yanks – pitching, pitching, pitching. Wolfe in the AL? I’m not so sure about that – the AL is brutal on NL pitchers; it’s just a far superior league. I think Brian is going to put some pressure on Andy to give him a decision fairly soon….even though they want to get a SP anyway. I’d be shocked if he retires, but no more dithering please

  304. m December 6th, 2009 at 12:17 am

    I don’t think Andy’s going to retire.

    He still has some left in the tank.

    It would be funny, though, if he told Cash, “I’ll decide after I see who you can bring in. Do your magic.”

  305. Wait till we do it all over Again December 6th, 2009 at 12:18 am

    My prediction for the offseason:

    Yankees sign Damon, Cameron, and Andy. That’s it.

    Oh, and Towers.

  306. Betsy - high on pie December 6th, 2009 at 12:21 am

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....tings.html

    Yankees: Brian Cashman got the green light from the Steinbrenners last week to spend whatever he feels is prudent to implement his winter gameplan, which is varied. First priority will be to get Andy Pettitte back in the fold. From there, Cashman will be going into the meetings looking for additional starting pitching. He’s certainly going to be speaking with the Blue Jays about Roy Halladay — as will his Red Sox counterpart Theo Epstein — although looming as the pre-meetings favorite to acquire the Toronto ace are the Angels, who are in position to offer the best package (one that will include a proven front-line starter, either Jered Weaver, Joe Saunders or Ervin Santana and possibly top prospect Peter Bourjos, a speed merchant outfielder). And the Halos have the payroll flexibility to sign him to a CC Sabathia-like longterm deal. Otherwise, Cashman figures to be somewhat hamstrung by the free-agent process, especially with Johnny Damon, another priority, likely wanting to see what the market will be bear before committing himself. It’ll be the same with John Lackey, who the Yankee brass consider a more-than-viable alternative to Halladay, depending on where his market winds up. No doubt, Cashman will spend some quality time at the meetings with one of his favorite trading partners, Detroit Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski, who is entertaining offers for center fielder Curtis Granderson, and No. 3 starter Edwin Jackson, both of whom could nicely fill Yankee needs. If there is one thing Cashman could accomplish quickly at the meetings, it’s signing handyman Jersey product Mark DeRosa (who has been on the Yankees’ radar) as a left-field hedge if Damon doesn’t return or an all-purpose fill-in if he does.

    *** I really don’t think the Angels are the favorites…..and are Saunders, Weaver and Santana considered front of the line pitchers? If so, then why would the Angels get rid of one of them? Doc is obviously much better than anyone they have, but how does that help their staff…….esp. if they lose Lackey?

  307. Betsy - high on pie December 6th, 2009 at 12:21 am

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....tings.html

    Yankees: Brian Cashman got the green light from the Steinbrenners last week to spend whatever he feels is prudent to implement his winter gameplan, which is varied. First priority will be to get Andy Pettitte back in the fold. From there, Cashman will be going into the meetings looking for additional starting pitching. He’s certainly going to be speaking with the Blue Jays about Roy Halladay — as will his Red Sox counterpart Theo Epstein — although looming as the pre-meetings favorite to acquire the Toronto ace are the Angels, who are in position to offer the best package (one that will include a proven front-line starter, either Jered Weaver, Joe Saunders or Ervin Santana and possibly top prospect Peter Bourjos, a speed merchant outfielder). And the Halos have the payroll flexibility to sign him to a CC Sabathia-like longterm deal. Otherwise, Cashman figures to be somewhat hamstrung by the free-agent process, especially with Johnny Damon, another priority, likely wanting to see what the market will be bear before committing himself. It’ll be the same with John Lackey, who the Yankee brass consider a more-than-viable alternative to Halladay, depending on where his market winds up. No doubt, Cashman will spend some quality time at the meetings with one of his favorite trading partners, Detroit Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski, who is entertaining offers for center fielder Curtis Granderson, and No. 3 starter Edwin Jackson, both of whom could nicely fill Yankee needs. If there is one thing Cashman could accomplish quickly at the meetings, it’s signing handyman Jersey product Mark DeRosa (who has been on the Yankees’ radar) as a left-field hedge if Damon doesn’t return or an all-purpose fill-in if he does.

    *** I really don’t think the Angels are the favorites…..and are Saunders, Weaver and Santana considered front of the line pitchers? If so, then why would the Angels get rid of one of them? Doc is obviously much better than anyone they have, but how does that help their staff…….esp. if they lose Lackey?

  308. m December 6th, 2009 at 12:24 am

    Adding 2 good starters is more beneficial than adding 2 OF.

    And baseball will probably reduce the number of off days in the postseason.

    We need 4 solid, guaranteed starters.

  309. Betsy - high on pie December 6th, 2009 at 12:27 am

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/.....gm-towers/

    Hopefully we’ll land our first big FA……

  310. Rich in NJ December 6th, 2009 at 12:27 am

    The Angels can’t trade that package, including one of those three starters, and win the WS. Why would Halladay want to go there?

  311. Betsy - high on pie December 6th, 2009 at 12:28 am

    Also, Cash isn’t going to let himself be hamstrung by Damon/Boras. Damon either wants to be here or he doesn’t…..Cash isn’t going to wait around while Damon plays the field

  312. Abdababdaserser December 6th, 2009 at 12:31 am

    Betsy, glad you are still on. I saw that earlier article, it was written by a Toronto newspaper beat reporter looking to “set things straight”.

    The article that said Halladay requested a trade was just a day ago and it was quoting Riccardi. While Riccardi was a terrible GM, I think with him saying that Halladay requested a trade sounds a lot more likely than a reporter saying something that isn’t attributed to any specific person.

    It could have been the janitor of the mens room that told him Halladay never requested a trade. It could have been a fan who said that, and while it isn’t valid information, it is factual that SOMEONE said it to him.

    There were a lot more articles out there that refute what that article you linked to stated. So, would you be more likely to believe one single reporter who doesn’t site any specific person as his source, or multiple reports from multiple different papers and interviews on radio?

    The author is cagey with the fudging of some of the “here is the facts stuff” as well.

    I heard Riccardi talking on one radio program. He portrayed things very differently than that one single reporter.

  313. Phil December 6th, 2009 at 12:37 am

    If that piece if from Feinsand at the Daily News he has no idea how the trade or NTC business works. I don’t know how he has made it this far with absolutely no insight into how trades have changed since the Santana deal, and organizations started to get a better handle on what their prospects were really worth.

  314. Betsy - high on pie December 6th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    Aba, are we talking about that same article? If so – Griffith stated that Doc never asked for a trade, he simply said he wasn’t going to sign an extension because he wanted to explore free agency. I guess it depends on who you believe……..but I’m not sure I believe JP’s version of things.

  315. GreenBeret7 December 6th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    Betsy – high on pie
    December 6th, 2009 at 12:15 am
    GB, don’t apologize; I realize you are sort of old and probably have bad eyes. You might need to wait for the game threads to catch the absurd posts……right now, we’re getting too many sensible ones. Where’s Matt, anyway?

    ————————————————————

    I resent being called old with bad eyes, Betsy. I consider it as being seasoned….well seasoned.

  316. Rich in NJ December 6th, 2009 at 12:40 am

    I think Weaver and Santana can be a FA in a year or two. They wouldn’t re-sign with Toronto. It’s either Saunders or nothing of those three. But Madden is basically an idiot.

  317. Betsy - high on pie December 6th, 2009 at 12:43 am

    No, it’s Madden ………

  318. Betsy - high on pie December 6th, 2009 at 12:45 am

    GB, if you were a salad or a steak, I’d say being seasoned was a positive. Since you’re not……it’s not. Forgive me – it’s nearly 1 am on the east coast and I’m feeling my oats, lol.

  319. Rich in NJ December 6th, 2009 at 12:47 am

    “With one of the best-stocked farm systems in baseball, the Red Sox are in the best position to fill San Diego’s many needs.

    This is utter bs. What a clown.

  320. Phil December 6th, 2009 at 12:57 am

    Madden has been cut off by the Yanks for the last few years and has a theory that they have no farm system because he only knows what he hears and doesn’t know what milb.com is or how to read all the stats there. George used to tell him stuff, now it seems like Kevin Kernan has the most inside stuff, though he too doesn’t know who is good or bad.

  321. Mike December 6th, 2009 at 12:58 am

    How much can Towers really help this off-season though? I doubt he has seen many of our prospects, and doubt he knows much about the specifics of the other AL teams.

  322. Yank1 December 6th, 2009 at 12:59 am

    Kernan was pretty adamant on the Hot Stove show that we’re going to get Doc.

  323. Phil December 6th, 2009 at 1:06 am

    Yank1

    yes, he certainly was.

  324. m December 6th, 2009 at 1:22 am

    Mike,

    All of the GMs and their assistants know about the other teams and their farms.

    They may not have seen all these players in person, but there’s so much information, databases, scouting reports, and video on guys they know them.

    It’s their job to know them.

  325. m December 6th, 2009 at 1:32 am

    Feature article on Kevin Towers. Is there anyone who’s not his best bud? :)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12.....f=baseball

  326. Phil December 6th, 2009 at 1:35 am

    No, everyone is his best bud. I just that if he comes in, it doesn’t jam-up Newman, Oppenheim, or Eppler, who have all been doing a great job bringing the team and the farm back where the organization needs to be.

  327. Phil December 6th, 2009 at 1:54 am

    apparently, controversial backup plan Mike Cameron will be signing with the Cubs.

  328. bru December 6th, 2009 at 1:57 am

    i think we get doc with joba,romine & pena/nunez

    they are looking for a young pitcher,catcher & if

  329. Phil December 6th, 2009 at 2:24 am

    I don’t think Joba goes.

  330. EL Duque December 6th, 2009 at 7:15 am

    I can´t imagine Joba in a another uniform!

    I like our Rotation:

    1. CC
    2. Burnett
    3. Pettite
    4. Hughes
    5. Joba!

    6. Kennedy, Gaudin or our Mexican Man!

    But we need to upgrade our lineup!

    We need Granderson and Damon!

    Good Bye Godzilla!

  331. murphydog December 6th, 2009 at 7:40 am

    The idea that Cashman might “approve” hiring Towers as his whip is interesting. It suggests how much things have changed in the Yankee organization. Towers is a big league GM with a track record. Under the old Boss, hiring Towers would be seen as putting a guy in the wings to replace Cash after the first wrong move or the first losing streak. Cash must be feeling pretty confident of his position these days.

    Re: The Yankee Universe blog. I’m not a copyright/trademark lawyer, just a hack criminal defender so take this for what it’s worth. They got a cease and desist demand; only courts can issue orders. But the party wanting them to cease and desist needs to show that they tried to get some voluntary compliance before going to court. It may be only an invitation to negotiate but Y.U. needs to get a lawyer (IMO, the ACLU isn’t getting involved) and have that lawyer call the MLB lawyer to find out what it’s going to take. It won’t go away without some written agreement.

    I don’t know what triggered this (was it a complaint from Yankee partner Memorial Sloan Kettering?). A lot of bloggers use the Yankee (and other MLB and other sports teams) name in some form and use a Yankee “mark” or logo. (I would assume that the use of the Yankee name and Top Hat on this blog is licensed or otherwise permitted).

    Parties holding valuable properties like trademarks or copyrights must police any unlicensed use or else risk losing their claim to exclusive use and exploitation of those properties, hence the cease and desist letters. The Yankees have put a lot of money into those marks over the years and are entitled to protect their rights to those marks. Classic cases of lost trademarks include “Aspirin,” a former name brand headache reliever now considered too generic to have protection, lost because the holder of the mark didn’t aggressively police the unauthorized use of it. (“thermos” too, I believe). Xerox was headed that way, as in “make a xerox of that.” But they got aggressive because of “aspirin” and started advertising “Xerox brand” copiers to remind the public it was a brand name.

    Over at the Yankee Universe blog there is a letter with some “legal” advice to the Y.U. blogmeisters from a Mr. “Cossell”. Like I said, it’s not my area, but I wouldn’t rely on Mr. Cossell’s advice. Most free legal advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

    Wow… all that on one cup of coffee.

  332. PittsburghYankeeFan December 6th, 2009 at 8:08 am

    Read the Madden piece in the Daily News. He lost me at “Sox have one of the best stocked farm systems in the majors.”

    What a tool. Read his stuff on the Yankees during the last few years, after George got sick and he lost his source. Pretty bitter stuff.

    Angels are NOT giving up Weaver plus for a year of Halliday. Get off that planet, Bill. Ervin Santana a good trade chip? So then is Kei Igawa, my friend. Saunders? Yeah, right–a cost controlled starter who who 14 games last year for a $20 million per year guy? Please. Angels best bet is to resign Lackey once his market is figured out. Where does Madden get his information?

    Sox need the chips (whatever few they REALLY have) for a first baseman or a catcher. They will eventually likely sign Jason Bay to a slightly overmarket deal (competition: Cubs), and it will be fun to watch Theo, Luccino, and Henry cringe as they do it (all in public to humiliate the player, of course, which is their MO). Look at what they gave up for Victor Martinez last year. They barely have enough to match that right now. I think they look south (Texas?) for a catcher. Mauer is staying in Minnesota–this is just like Derek Jeter, but for the Twins.

    Jays have no leverage. Doc wants the Yankees, who IMO are content to give up a package like Kennedy + name your AA or AAA position player not Montero (and maybe Ajax). That is about right for the situation. Joba and Hughes have way too much upside right now (with Joba as the potential Mo replacement if starting doesn’t work out) to trade them before 2011. How about (don’t laugh and spill your coffee over the keyboard) Kennedy, Igawa (frees up $4 million, and essentially is a throw in), and one of Ajax, Romine, Pena? Jays could then spin off Kei to the West Coast NL team where he belongs as a #5 for more prospects to restock their system.

    Just some random thoughts, but I still don’t know where or who is feeding Bill Madden his info

  333. Iconoclast December 6th, 2009 at 8:27 am

    Sorry if this has already been posted, but it’s kind of neat. From Maureen Dowd, NY Times:

    “He (Tiger Woods) is the principal. But he forgot that he’s no longer a solo brand. He has been marketing himself since he turned pro and 21 in 1996, becoming a billionaire with endorsement deals with Nike, American Express, Titleist and the two Generals, Mills and Motors.
    But once he served up the fairy tale wedding with the Swedish beauty and had two kids, his value was in family and his projection of family values.
    Now all we have left to look up to is Derek Jeter. “

  334. crawdaddy December 6th, 2009 at 9:13 am

    That’s garbage, the only thing I care about Tiger Woods is whether he’s going to continue to win golf championships, particularly, the majors. The rest of that stuff about judging him as a person or somebody to look up to as some kind of hero worship, I’ll leave for a greater force to do than any of us.

  335. murphydog December 6th, 2009 at 9:46 am

    I read an article recently that presents an interesting take on the Tiger Woods, privacy versus “public figure” debate.

    The author (a law professor, Robert F. Nagel, writing in the Weekly Standard) addressed the consequences of the landmark Supreme Court decision, NY Times v. Sullivan (for a “you don’t need to be a lawyer to understand the point” explanation of the case, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N......_Sullivan).

    In what I thought was a very well considered piece, the author argued that the public discourse has been greatly coarsened by the Supreme Court’s stand elevating freedom of the press over traditional concepts of personal privacy and defamation.

    Rather than encouraging comprehensive and balanced “news” coverage, the Sullivan decision has put a media premium on speed, volume and titillation. Rather than forcing editors to worry about copy being close to the line, Sullivan essentially indemnifies ignorance. There is a perverse incentive in Sullivan’s “actual malice – reckless disregard of the truth” to not look too deeply or else risk learning facts that would be the truth, and hence, a stop sign. So today we get rumor, gossip and what used to be “yellow journalism” in place of “all the news that’s fit to print.” (I emphasize “fit.”) I’m not saying that the Tiger Woods coverage content is false. But what used to be borderline defamatory speech about those arguably fitting the definition of “public figures” now is the starting point.

    Combine that baseline protection for reporters and editors with the 24-hour news cycle, and cynical, class warfare America in the post-Watergate era just eats this stuff up.

    There are other ways to balance free press and privacy, but for now, the Supreme Court wants it this way. How about you?

  336. 28 December 6th, 2009 at 11:00 am

    Can someone tell me whats up with Jose Molina? Was his contract up? Is he not coming back?

  337. OldYanksFan December 6th, 2009 at 11:22 am

    Molina is a FA. We had a 2 yr contract on him.

  338. JMK aka The Overshare December 6th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    Trade joba now

  339. DM2008 December 6th, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    Greg Porter was never given a chance to prove himself at Scranton. To say he struggled is misleading. He proved valuable in Spring Training, then took a back seat to Jason Lane, who obviously was a mistake. Girardi gave him a look, it was Scranton that in the end named his fate. This guy has talent! Maybe 2010 will be his year to shine.


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