Different lobby, different circumstances for Mariners GM
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 07, 2009 
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One of the few front office executives mingling with the mass of reporters in the Marriott lobby is Mariners general manager Jack Zduriencik. One month ago, at the GM meetings, Zduriencik showed up early and was quickly asked about the possibility of trading Felix Hernandez.
Amazing how much has changed.
As of today, the idea of Hernandez being traded seems more like a pipedream. The Mariners have all but finished a deal for Chone Figgins, they’re reportedly in on Jason Bay and there are talks of a Hernandez extension rather than a Hernandez trade. The Angels seem vulnerable and it might make sense for Seattle to make a run at the division rather than cut ties with their best young player.
For the Yankees, not having Hernandez on the market reinforces the idea that Roy Halladay is the best pitcher who might be available via trade. If Hernandez were a realistic target, I’d put him at the top of the list — younger, cheaper, entering his prime — but without King Felix, Halladay is easily the biggest and best name out there.
It will be interesting to see if we can get Halladay and Granderson while holding onto the big three.
granderson has struggled with lefties, but long can work with him on that. just need to get him out of trying to hit hr’s, and willing to slash lefties to the opposite field.
Why on earth would the Ms even consider trading King Felix. He’s all those things, and teams are supposed to be going after big time talent that they control and can afford. I could see him holding off on an extension, but I don’t see any scenario where the Ms decide to trade their best player, especially when they are spending money to bring in talent this year.
IMO what the Yankees really have is the big two (Hughes and Montero)
Buster’s tweet jibes with what he said a week or so ago, but not what Will Carroll or Heyman said. I guess we’ll see… I admit, I really hope Doc wants to sign with a team that trains in Florida
We don’t want Granderson.
Looks like Seattle and Texas will emerge as tough teams in the AL West & maybe even playoff teams, with Anaheim slipping back if they don’t do something to improve. Still early yet though.
I think Bruney’s just being moved for some prospects. The idea’s to to lose his salary, not add on Soriano’s.
We’ve been all over Granderson since the GM meetings.
I just hope Halladay is dealt with, one way or another, very very soon. I’m sick of hearing his name after the trade deadline stuff last year, and now again in the offseason.
Im not sold on Granderson because of his lack of ability to hit lefties. But everyone seems to think it’s not a big deal. how about trying to get Connor Jackson as a righty compliment?
Have their been any reports in what granderson would cost?
SCX
December 7th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
I just hope Halladay is dealt with, one way or another, very very soon. I’m sick of hearing his name after the trade deadline stuff last year, and now again in the offseason.
********************
I second that. Sadly though, I think this is going to drag on all winter.
Heyman said he would prefer to go to a team that trains near his Florida home… I don’t think he ever said Roy would absolutely not want to go to a team that trains in AZ. He’d probably evaluate it based on circumstance.
Unless we get a direct quote from Roy or his agent, always take these rumors with a grain of salt, as a far as where he does or doesn’t want to play.
The Yankees have tabbed Andy Pettitte as their first priority at the Winter Meetings, but contrary to published reports, no official offers have been made to the lefthander as of this morning.
An industry source told the Daily News that the Yankees intend to make their initial offer sometime today, a one-year contract for more than $10 million. Whether the deal will include incentives like last year’s contract did remains to be seen, but the Yankees plan to reward Pettitte for his solid 2009 season.
“They don’t intend to low-ball him,” the source said.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blo.....z0Z1X4IuT6
In 2008 Connor Jackson hit: 315/446/492 against lefties. Looks interesting to me if he is either non-tendered, or can be had for little.
“Have their been any reports in what granderson would cost?”
He’s not a salary dump, contrary to what some here may believe. What you’re buying is 4 years of Granderson at less than $10M per season. He is going to cost plenty.
The media also tried to convince us last year that CC did not want to come to the East Coast. Every media source reported that tidbit and everyone went with the “where there’s smoke…” line.
Most of what you hear is BS.
This stuff about Halladay being open to more locations is all about Toronto trying to get leverage on the Yanks.
Also-Ran
December 7th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Unless we get a direct quote from Roy or his agent, always take these rumors with a grain of salt, as a far as where he does or doesn’t want to play.
********************
Exactly. All we heard last winter was that CC only wanted to play for a team on the west coast. How’d that one turn out? lol
How about a Connor Jackson/Granderson Platoon?
Buster tweeted that Doc is open to considering all possibilities, including teams that train in AZ. That jibes with what Buster already said a week or so ago, but not what Will Carroll or Heyman said. I guess we’ll see….but it’s no surprise what Buster said as he’s not about to contradict his own information.
I really want Doc if it’s at all possible – but I don’t see how they can swing Doc and Granderson.
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....5a5FwLQI8L
Personal relationships matter in this game, and I have heard from several sources that Brian Cashman and new Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos have quickly formed a strong working relationship.
Now strong working relationships don’t mean that Toronto gives the Yankees a discount on Halladay. But you will notice some teams tend to trade with other teams often and some teams never trade with one another. Often that is about the working relationship at the negotiating table.
When there is trust and an open flow of ideas that often spurs momentum in talks. And the Yankees and Jays potentially have that now on the GM level.
I don’t understand offering pettite a deal in excess of 10M. They are bidding against themselves. No other team would go thay high I don’t think and he doesn’t want to pitch elsewhere. Offer him what he made with incentives last year as a guaranteed deal.. that’s fair and if he doesn’t except don’t raise the offer until somebody outbids you. if they want to lower payroll then they should stop waistimg money in situations like this and the arod deal
Personal relationships matter in this game, and I have heard from several sources that Brian Cashman and new Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos have quickly formed a strong working relationship.
________________
people seem to like Cashman and warm up to him quickly. he must have some strategy.
I don’t want Granderson if it cost’s any of the prospects being discussed for Halladay.
Phil,
“It will be interesting to see if we can get Halladay and Granderson while holding onto the big three.”
Like trading Felix Hernandez, this is a PIPE DREAM.
Andy knows that we need him more than he needs us.
Wolf, Pinerio, Marquis, etc. are not better than him.
Right now, we need another pitcher in addition to Andy. Without Andy, we’ll need 2 pitchers.
Sheets, Harden, Bedard, etc. are high risk/reward guys, not a replacement for one of our most durable pitchers in Andy.
Phil,
What do you think would be offered for Granderson? From my perspective, Detroit probably ask for a CF, as well as some arms for their repleted bullpen. I’m thinking they’d ask for Jackson, whether they’d get him is another matter. More likely Melky or Gardner. As far as pitching, I could see consideration going to offering Bruney or Marte, or Coke and a slew of others options in the minors.
Saint
We’ll see, Mad Prince. I think Granderson is a salary dump.
The latest tweet by Olney or Heyman (?) said don’t count out the Angels just because they don’t train in Florida. I don’t know why he had to clarify that. Of course not. Who wants you? Are they a contender? Would you feel comfortable pitching there? That’s all that’s really important.
I do think, though, if it’s the Angels it’ll only be for a year. (because of the FL thing and the AL East is where the big boys play!)
But if the Yankees would consider Halladay for next season as a FA, I’d rather they grab him now. If he goes to another team, they have no vested interest and could abuse him as much as they wanted. I’d rather have Roy a year earlier and possibly get a break on any extension. They’ll likely have to outbid other teams (and themselves-you know how that goes) for a FA Halladay.
I like how you can take 1 source, a bunch of blogs comment on it, and then it becomes multiple sources.
My wife , who knows nothing about sports, saw a picture of Cashman on my laptop and thought he was Ben from Lost. I guess Cash is kinda like Ben in that you never really know what he’s up to
Jack Z seems to be doing a good job as GM. I like the philosophy he is applying to the team – good defense and pitching – because it plays well in Safeco. Figgins is a good replacement for Beltre and adds another speedy player at the top of the lineup. He also got a nice deal on him, 36 mil isn’t bad for Chone (although I wouldn’t have gone 4 years).
Bay has a great bat but he’s not really the ideal fit to play in Seattle. His defense in LF is atrocious and the outfield in Safeco is enormous. If the Mariners sign him they ought to stick him at DH in my opinion.
Regardless, they should have a pretty good team next year, hopefully they can knock off the Angels because seriously, F the angels
“More likely Melky or Gardner. As far as pitching, I could see consideration going to offering Bruney or Marte, or Coke and a slew of others options in the minors.”
Not a chance the Tigers would take that for Granderson. Zero.
The price for Grandeson is probably going to be too high.
Personally, I wouldn’t want to give up Melky for Granderson unless we bring in another solid of’er (which isn’t easy). I think Melky has been more valuable than most other younng outfielders. I’d rather keep him here.
Curtis Granderson is a better player than Ryan Church and it’s not even close.
It would make zero sense for the Yankees to trade for Church. It would make a ton of sense however for them to trade for Granderson even if he can’t hit lefties.
I think after Andy signs, the rotation is in good shape. Chamberlain and Hughes are ready to step into the rotation in my opinion. I’d maybe sign a guy like Harden or Sheets to be a swingman and insurance in case one of the young guys fails but I really want the Yanks to give Phil and Joba spots in the rotation.
I can’t overstate how important young, cost controlled, talented starting pitchers are. If Hughes and Chamberlain can step up and be what we think they can be it would be a huge benefit for the Yanks.
“Bay has a great bat but he’s not really the ideal fit to play in Seattle. His defense in LF is atrocious and the outfield in Safeco is enormous”
Best defensive CF (and maybe the 2nd best defensive CF) resides in Seattle. Might be able to pick up some of Bay’s slack.
For all the trouble Seattle will give teams with Ichiro and Figgins at the top, I do wonder who they think will be driving those guys home.
CC was quoted as saying that if he wanted to win, how could he justify to himself not coming to the Yankees……and he was already in free agency. Doc is only 1 year away from free agency and the ability to control exactly where he goes (without depending on his team making a deal with a favored team). Would he give that up to sign an extension with a team that doesn’t meet all his criteria when that means he’d be spending the rest of his career there? Maybe he would…and maybe he would be very happy. CC ended up loving NY, Paul O’Neill (granted it was a trade) adored NY (and he thought he’d hate it)……..It’s just something to consider.
Phil, that could be very true. I guess I’m too naïve – I never consider that teams might be using the sportswriters to further their agendas.
We can get both without giving up the “Big 3″.
For Halladay -
Kennedy, McAllister, Romine, plus a 4th player like Nunez/Pena/Pirela if they want a short stop.
For Granderson -
Jackson, Laird, and Nova or Blich.
We could add Melancon to one of the packages above too.
Plus we have ML-ready guys to throw in like Miranda, Gardner, Cervelli, Dunn, etc.
We keep the big 3… we keep guys like Vizcaino/Banelous, we get 2 all-star players in their prime.
Hey you never know … after the way Tex was acquired last year it wouldn’t surprise me if Cashman suddenly pulled a King Felix trade out of his butt. I wouldn’t be expecting it, but it could be worth it depending on who you give up.
Joba OR Phil but not both would be my limit on pitching to give up. If you give up one of the two plus a good young position player (and throw in Swisher) for either Halladay or Felix, I go for Felix. The younger & cheaper option.
Out of the two, right now I’m inclined to keep Hughes but it’s still hard to imagine give up Joba. Sending someone good to Seattle instead of Toronto keeps him out of the division too.
I don’t get the love for Granderson. In the last 3 years his batting average has gone from .302 to .280 to. .249.
His OBP .361, .365, .327
Runs 122, 112, 91
It’s early in his career but it seem like he may be in a downward trend. Plus his 30 HSs produces only 71 RBI.
CC made those quotes only after he signed with the Yankees. All throughout the FA process, it was common thought that he wanted to go to the West Coast.
His agent also came out and said “all things being equal”, he would prefer the West.
There were a lot of angry posters the day before we eventually signed him saying that he is just using us and he isin’t serious and we should move on.
It is nice that CC said that after the fact, but during the process, we were all under the impression that he was not serious about us, just like now we’re under the impression that Doc only wants to train in FLA.
I just don’t understand why people will trade 4 or 5 good prospects all to hang onto Joba..
Joba has bust written all over him
From what I understand, people like dealing with Cash because he doesnt BS them. He doesnt play games when it comes to trades or FA deals. He tells them what he thinks or wants and if the agent or GM are on the same page, they move forward. If not, they shake hands and move along.
“We’ll see, Mad Prince. I think Granderson is a salary dump.”
Disagree. It’s not really a ridiculous salary. Again, $37M over 4 years or $26M over three if they don’t want the option in 2013. Only way this is a salary dump is if he comes with one of their bad contracts, say Carlos Guillen or something. Straight up, they’re going to want good, close to MLB ready, yet not close to arbitration players.
blake,
according to you. To me he has “young pitcher getting over an injury” written all over him.
Cashman had to make 3 separate visits to convince CC and his wife to come here. He also put in an opt-out clause to ensure them that they can leave if they don’t like it after 3 years.
He was convinced to come here. Let’s not act like it was some master plan of CC’s to pretend like he didn’t like the Yankees so he could get more money. He had reservations about coming here and Cash did a great sell-job on him.
“Plus his 30 HSs produces only 71 RBI.”
That’s not his fault. He can only drive in those who actually get on base.
Yankee U,
Now you know why the Tigers want to trade him. He’s young, signed to a good deal and has a great rep in the media. Seems like a dream. But when you look closer, you see that they’re trying to trade high. They know the deal.
By all accounts, Seattle is headed in the right direction. Nice young sophomore manager, going to have a speedy 1-2 combo at the top of the lineup, good defense, made some noise in the division last season. I can’t see why Felix would go in a trade before the season even begins. He’s their best chance to contend. He could easily win 20 games if things bounce his way.
Roy is being dangled now because they’re rebuilding, he’s probably already indicated to the Jays that he’s not interested in an extension, and he’s probably a little frustrated that things weren’t settled last season.
If no Halladay, Sheets/Harden. I like having Hughes and Joba but one of you cannot have too much good pitching. Ask Boston.
“Joba has bust written all over him”
It’s arguable that without his contribution in the WS, the Yankees don’t win.
Phil, that’s your opinion and that’s fine. I’m not giving up several prospects to keep a guy that showed up fat last year and stayed out of shape. Has shown no indication he will ever have the work ethic or stamina to be a great starting pitcher. That may change but he hasnt shown in in three years and if he has another year like last then his value will tank and an opportunity to get value for him will have been missed.
dont know how anyone can say he has bust written all over him.
maybe as a starter, but he is a force in the pen. no way is he a bust.
“I just don’t understand why people will trade 4 or 5 good prospects all to hang onto Joba..
Joba has bust written all over him”
regardless of what happens the rest of his career he’s already done better than 80% of draft picks.
When you make it to the majors in less than a year and have thrown nearly 300 hundred major league innings with an ERA+ of 121 there is no way anyone can ever call you a bust.
Unless they’re talking about a statue of course.
Who did Granderson have at the bottom of the lineup in Detroit?
Adam Everett? Gerald Laird? Ryan Rayburn?
Not exactly Nick Swisher (OBP machine), Cano (.320 hitter), and Melky (better than anyone DET has at the bottom).
Rich, what contribution was that? He pitched ok but wasn’t great and that was out of the pen where he has always looked the best. That’s where he belongs and by the time they figure that out the halladay chance will have passed.
Every time Granderson comes up here, I become less enamored with him. Then I check out his road splits and become intrested in him again.
Granderson’s road OPS ’06-09:
’09 his road OPS was .861.
’08 .863
’07 .961
’06 .828
Does this mean he’d thrive away from DET and the Yankees should trade for him? I don’t know…
“Joba has bust written all over him”
In what language? Lot of things to like, some to dislike about the kid, but at a minimum, he’s a late inning shut down reliever. That’s not a bust.
Because in baseball, you keep the high ceiling guys in favor of the 2nd tier guys.
1 A level prospect > 4 B/C level prospects.
Kennedy/McAllister are middle of the rotation guys whose value to us is probably trade bait/depth anyway. Romine? A nice prospect, but he might very well be blocked by our best prospect and there are questions if he is destined for the OF. Pena? Gardner? Cervelli? Backup players.
You trade that package of 4 players over Joba any day.
Ray, bust is a relative term. Has he lived up to the constant hype over the last three years? No not even close.
I think Granderson would do well in NYS.
Joba had a great shortened 07, a decent 08 until injury. Started well in 09 but faltered (shoulder injury)? But he put it together in post season. Agreed that he contributed mightly to the WS win. He has a lot of natural ability and given one year to pitch w/o the JRules will prove again why he has been valued over Hughes and other “kids”.
Here’s an interesting link that doesn’t need refreshing (at least I don’t think so).
It’s a live “chat” from the espn baseball correspondents. I say “chat” because they’re just posting updates.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4717538
Phil,
Granderson is definitely a salary dump but that doesn’t mean Dombrowski is going to give him away strictly for salary relief. He’ll want and should receive SOMETHING decent in return.
As far as Halladay is concerned, there is no way that the Yankees get that guy w/o giving up Joba, Hughes, Montero, or Jackson. They could conceiveably put something together where they retain 3 of those 4, but the guess here is that Toronto will demand two of those four in any deal.
Hopefully we can wait it out, but we’ll definitely not be obtaining both Granderson and Halladay w/o giving up a package of our better prospects.
Why do people discount middle of the rotation guys?guys like Andy Pettitte are middle of the rotation guys.
Despite AJ’s stuff he’s a middle of the rotation pitcher and he got paid last year. Middle of the rotation guys help teams win WS championships.
I find it funny how many people call Kennedy and McCalister middle of the rotation guys and act like it’s a bad thing.
Ok I will retract the word “bust”. That wasn’t really the best word to make my point. My point was that I think there is a very real chance that Joba either flames out as a statyer or is moved to the pen. because of that he’s worth moving for Halladay IMO instead of several other guys that could contribute or be traded in other deals
Also, most teams don’t have Aces. There aren’t 32 aces in MLB……
“Ray, bust is a relative term. Has he lived up to the constant hype over the last three years? No not even close.”
Could be as much about the hype being excessive as the kid not living up to it. Hard to pan any work he’s done as a reliever. As a starter? Certainly some flashes of brilliance that lend to the belief he can be a high end of the rotation starter, but it’s clear he needs to work on some things.
blake
Girardi went with three starters. He didn’t trust anyone in he pen but Joba, Marte, and Mo. If Marte and Joba didn’t pitch well, they probably would have either not gotten to Mo or worn him out since he was pitching with a rib injury.
Joba has been a terrific reliever and a top tier starter until the shoulder injury. Why don’t you give him a full year to recover before you write him off?
I have no doubt we’d give up Jackson for Halladay, but none of the big three.
Blake – you are incorrect about Joba being a bust for the last 3 years. Go back and see his stats. 1-0 against Beckett in Boston is not a bust. He has the most so’s in 09 or tied – with 13. Find another person to dump on.
Detroit has several contracts they could dump before Granderson’s so he wouldn’t necessarily be a salary dump if he is moved.
I think the Yankees are kicking the tires on Granderson to get “younger and more atheletic” which makes sense.
BTW, Gammons is up to it again it today’s ESPN blog entry. He finishes up his article talking about Pujols and then goes into a how great Pedroia is, like he is some kind of future Hall of Famer’er. Doesn’t he ever look at stats, oh say Pedroia’s home/road splits?
http://insider.espn.go.com/esp.....mons_peter
Granderson would be a disaster. An absolute disaster. He’s a great player unless you watch him play everyday.
Also Dombrowski has said he’s going to have to be “blown away” for him. To blow him away you’re talking about Hughes or Joba along with Jackson, Gardner, and another prospect.
Chip
Granderson wouldn’t be a core player; he’s be a support player. He would probably learn to hook the ball and take it to the RF porch and increase his HR total.
The only thing that concerns me is his declining UZR/150 in CF.
Chip
December 7th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Granderson would be a disaster. An absolute disaster. He’s a great player unless you watch him play everyday.
Also Dombrowski has said he’s going to have to be “blown away” for him. To blow him away you’re talking about Hughes or Joba along with Jackson, Gardner, and another prospect.
********************
Chip, if that’s the case, I don’t think you have anything to worry about.
Rich, Totally agree on Joba. The kid was getting into his own as a starter in late July before the Yankees started messing with his ‘rules’. I’m looking for a great year out of him this year. And if he doesn’t pan out as a starter, we all ready know he’s a great reliever who could maybe replace Mo in the future. Why would the Yankees ever trade him?
“Joba has been a terrific reliever and a top tier starter until the shoulder injury.”
He has NOT been a top tier starter. As I pointed out earlier, he has shown flashes of brilliance in the starter’s role, but in general was a guy who struggled to get much more than 15 outs an outing. His work as a starter needs improvement.
Rich in NJ :Thank you for your positive response re: Joba. Joba did have Joe’s “trust” in the WS.
Felix Hernandez won’t negotiate an extension until after Tim Lincecum’s contract is set. Tiny Tim could break Ryan Howard’s $10 million salary for first-time arbitration-eligible players.
Felix earned $3.8 mil in ’09, so he’s probably worth $10+ million for 2010, and $15+ million/year after that.
Just looking over Felix stats:
2005 – 12 games, 4-4, 2.67 ERA
2006 – 31 games, 12-14, 4.52 ERA
2007 – 30 games, 14-7, 3.93 ERA
2008 – 31 games, 9-11, 3.45 ERA
2009 – 34 games, 19-5, 2.49 ERA
Had he been in a Yankee uniform, would Yankee fans have had the patience to stick with him after 2006 or 2008? Or would we have said he’s too inconsistent, put him in the pen?
This site is mlb’s hot stove site,that updates while viewing. Don’t forget the hotstove.com site too.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/news/ho...../index.jsp
-Brian Bruney possibly going to the braves?
-Anthopoulos wants teams to come to his suite for any talks,not the other way around.
-SI_Jon Heyman says he hears Felix Hernandez will seek 6 yrs $100MM,he’s in talks with Mariners.
-Looks like Mariners are making a run for their division
Yanks just traded Bruney to the Nationals.
The Joba love is amazing, its stronger than even Hulkamania in its prime.. If they choose to pass on doc because they refuse to part with Joba them you guys better hope you are right about him. Because if he turns out to be a middle of the road starter or bullpen guy them it was a big mistake, a potentially multiple world series wins lost mistake…just my opinion
Noreaster
The one point I disagree with you on is the “rule.” They made them in consultation with Dr. Andrews as a result of his shoulder. So I don’t think they had any choice.
Joel Sherman: Bruney to Nationals
i dont get the preference for halladay over lackey. lackey costs no players, only money. would you rather have:
1. joba and austin jackson and lackey OR
2. halladay
i say lackey and pettite for rotation is a no brainer. keep hughes and joba and jackson and montero.
is this real??
nyp_joelsherman #Yankees trade Bruney to #Nationals
2 minutes ago from mobile web
“Yanks just traded Bruney to the Nationals.”
Roster space.
the Nationals? poor guy…
” dont get the preference for halladay over lackey”
Lackey has elbow issues.
“Yanks just traded Bruney to the Nationals.”
prove? if its true, it better be for Morgan.
“nyp_joelsherman #Yankees trade Bruney to #Nationals
2 minutes ago from mobile web”
again…it better be for Nyjer Morgan.
not only that lackey is a couple years younger.
Let the offseason begin !.
“Anthopoulos wants teams to come to his suite for any talks,not the other way around.”
He’s also limiting the meetings to 4 people (1 on 1, maybe 2 on 2) so as to minimize press leaks.
“Yanks just traded Bruney to the Nationals.”
For whom?
“prove? if its true, it better be for Morgan.”
Probably a 2nd/3rd tier minor league prospect.
BREAKING Yankees trade Bruney to Nationals for players to be named later. According to mlb/hotstove
Betsy must be thrilled right now. She really hated the guy.
NY post Bruney to Nationals Sherman reports.
Well Brian won’t be going to the Tigers…
Nationals? Exile.
salary dumb on our part
Morgan? That’s pushing your luck. I’m with squid on this. Probably just prospects.
dump-
Rich, I agree that they had to limit his innings, just putting so many days between starts turned out to be the wrong approach and ‘messed’ with him.
Nationals were looking for affordable relief help.
Hope the player to be named isn’t Will Nieves!
Phil,
For the sake of superstition, please stop using the term “Big Three”.
We used that before 2008 and Joba, Phil, and IPK all stunk it up considerably.
Jays won’t trade Halladay w/o getting Hughes or Joba. If they do, then the GM should be fired and the Cashman should be given a raise immediately.