Granderson trade about to become official
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 09, 2009 
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Sorry for the new post so quickly, but Major League Baseball just announced that the general managers of the Yankees, Tigers and Diamondbacks are about to hold a press conference.
Wonder what that could be about?
Pretty soon we’re going to have reaction and details on the Curtis Granderson trade. I’ll update this post when that information starts to come in.
UPDATE, 4:35 p.m.: Discussions started before Thanksgiving. Began with the Tigers hearing the Diamondbacks were interested in Edwin Jackson and the Yankees were interested in Curtis Granderson. It took roughly three weeks to get everything worked out.
UPDATE, 4:39 p.m.: Tigers were not interested in lower-level players. They were only going to do the deal for players who could jump into the lineup and rotation immediately.
UPDATE, 4:43 p.m.: Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski on Austin Jackson: “We’re counting on him to make our big league club… He’s about as sure of a guy as you can find.”
UPDATE, 4:44 p.m.: Cashman on Jackson, “I’ve said no to him on so many deals in the past.”
UPDATE, 4:46 p.m.: Cashman: “We’re excited about what we’re getting and distraught about what we gave up at the same time.”
UPDATE, 4:48 p.m.: Cashman said this deal doesn’t rule out bringing back Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui. “The next decisions we make are just as important,” he said.
UPDATE, 4:50 p.m.: Well that was pretty quick. The press conference is over, but the beat writers are getting Cashman pretty soon. There should be a little more information in an hour or so. Hang tight.
You know what – I threw Ryan Church out today mostly as a joke, but after taking so much heat for it I’m officially waving the Ryan Church pom-poms.
I think his production will take off as a Yankee and getting to the short porch instead of playing in huge parks like Shea, RFK, Citi and Turner.
I think he’s a suitable defensive player
He’s cost effective for what Brian’s trying to do
He’s a Cashman type of player
And it would drive Met fans nuts if he were to succeed here.
Isn’t it Great. Ain’t it GRAND.
It’s ANOTHER homerun, for Curtis GRRAANDERSON
Must’ve been about all that “noise”
where can we watch this? ESPN, YES, MLB Network?
Isn’t it Great. Ain’t it GRAND.
It’s ANOTHER homerun, for Curtis GRRAANDERSON
thats pathetic.. so is john sterling
Patrick
You’re talking about a potential OF of Mike Cameron, Curtis Granderson and Nick Swisher – Yes, they might hit a combined 80 HR, but they also might hit .250 with 500 strikeouts.
Curtis Granderson in Yankee Pinstripes…It sounds so good…..He’ll be fully embraced come July by The LoHuder’s, even the many who were & or down on this trade….
Sterling:
“That sure won’t hurt us, it’s a homer from Curtis!”
“It’s a dandy from Grandy!”
So the Yankees now have 2.5 Black players. That’s 2 more than they had in 2008.
“You’re talking about a potential OF of Mike Cameron, Curtis Granderson and Nick Swisher – Yes, they might hit a combined 80 HR, but they also might hit .250 with 500 strikeouts.”
BA and strikeouts do not matter in isolation.
You have to look at the entire offensive package. BA and KO’s are way, way down on the list of importance in evaluating offensive production.
“You’re talking about a potential OF of Mike Cameron, Curtis Granderson and Nick Swisher – Yes, they might hit a combined 80 HR, but they also might hit .250 with 500 strikeouts.”
They also MIGHT hit 85 homeruns. And catch almost every ball.
The beauty of Mike Cameron is if he can be had on a 1 year deal… if the asking price is longer than that, then his appeal wanes.
But high K’s and swing and miss baseball makes me want to kill my TV.
No fun.
“BA and KO’s are way, way down on the list of importance in evaluating offensive production.”
But what about RBIs?!?! and Wins for a pitcher?!?!
BA and KO’s are way, way down on the list of importance in evaluating offensive production.
Agreed – but of the three of them only 1 (Swisher) has an above average OBP and Cameron’s HR production would likely dip leaving Miller Park for Yankee Stadium.
Just dreaming a little…
What do you all think of this lineup:
1. Jeter – SS
2. Cano – 2B
3. A-Rod – 3B
4. Teixeira – 1B
5. Holliday – LF
6. Posada – C
7. Swisher – DH
8. Granderson – CF
9. Melky – RF
I don’t think the Yanks can really afford Holliday, but that would be a nice lineup.
Granderson will work on changing his plate approach this spring…..He’ll learn to hit the outside oitch to left field…I say this due to pitchers being worried about making a mistake or missing inside to him at Yankee Stadium……Many baseball people are going to be surprised by the new and re-invented Curtis Granderson…
A-Rod wouldn’t bat 3rd in any dream.
Dandy from Grandy is my favorite.
Pat M.
December 9th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Curtis Granderson in Yankee Pinstripes…It sounds so good…..He’ll be fully embraced come July by The LoHuder’s, even the many who were & or down on this trade….
*******************
Pat, I’m thrilled the Yankees made this trade. I think Granderson will look really good in pinstripes!!
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....id=6261176
Watch the live conference here
I bet the Yankees traded for Alan Trammell and Luis Gonzalez.
Curtis Granderson will hit for a higher average, and go back to being a dynamic offensive player, playing half his games at Yankee Stadium.
Its amazing how someone who spends days on here looking for the Yankees to acquire washed up and DFA’ed players, could have problems with the Yankees acquiring Granderson and/or Mike Cameron.
Swisher and Granderson were classic buy-lows. Nady is another. He can still hit and he mashes lefties. He’ll get a 1 year deal somewhere and be playing his tail off for a new contract. I wouldn’t mind him at DH. Another intriguing buy-low option is Ryan Doumit.
Pat M-
I hope you’re right. But it seems more likely to me that leopards won’t change their spots. It’s OK with me, CG will kill righties. But I’d like a real option when the lefties come around.
carl December 9th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
A-Rod wouldn’t bat 3rd in any dream.
—
Why not? He’s not a good enough hitter to hit 3rd? (lol?)
If you had A-Rod, Tex and Holliday, Teixeira being the switch hitter fits well between the two righties, imo.
I love the Granderson trade, however since he seems to be struggling against lefty pitching I was thinking how about the Yankees sign a backup OF who hits particularly well against lefty’s, I was thinking maybe a guy like Reed Johnson he can play all OF positions and and has decent numbers against lefty’s 290 BA 790 OPS or even better if we can get Matt Diaz from the Braves his numbers against lefty’s are just sick, for his career 347 BA 922 OPS.
Cmon Cashman make it happen
Granderson will work on changing his plate approach this spring…..He’ll learn to hit the outside oitch to left field…I say this due to pitchers being worried about making a mistake or missing inside to him at Yankee Stadium……Many baseball people are going to be surprised by the new and re-invented Curtis Granderson…
Pat – I for one hope you’re right, but I don’t think you can assume it’s going to be an instant success.
Steveoh -
No no to Cano in the 2 spot.
The problem with Nady is that we have no clue how he’ll bounce back from injury. I feel more comfortable getting somebody after a down year than after an injury, especially since Grandy’s BA projects to improve dramatically because of that ridiculously low 275 BABIP.
press conference live on MLB network
sab
December 8th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Tom in NJ
December 8th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Erin-
3. What will Sterling’s HR call for Granderson be?
——————————————————-
A Yankee Doodle Dandy by Grandy…
===========================================================
I mentioned the call above yesterday at 3:54 pm…
ARod hits 4th. Tex 3rd. Works for them and it worked to win a title. Holliday isn’t coming to the Bronx.
Jim Thome is the Diamondbacks GM?
Gosh, that was quick. How did he get a job so soon after playing, as a GM?
Scott is still working it hard for Johnny.
Boras on Granderson: “He’s clearly not a number two hitter, and with his power comes the detriment of strikeouts.” Says Damon still fits NYY
“So the Yankees now have 2.5 Black players. That’s 2 more than they had in 2008.”
And if they get Cameron, that would make 3.5. The White guys may start to feel outnumbered.
The Grandy man can?
Its amazing how someone who spends days on here looking for the Yankees to acquire washed up and DFA’ed players, could have problems with the Yankees acquiring Granderson and/or Mike Cameron.
I have no problem with acquiring Granderson – my problem with acquiring Granderson was that I thought it was going to cost them Jackson and Hughes – short of that I think he’s a dynamic CF and a great fit for the club.
I do have legitimate concerns that putting Granderson and Cameron in the same lineup (along with Nick Swisher) will result in a lot of unproductive outs. Though the breeze generated should be nice for fans.
Tigers counting on Jackson making the big league team out of spring training.
We have no clue how he’ll bounce back from injury but the Yankees have his medical records and their scouts can watch him put on a hitting clinic. He mashes lefties in his sleep, the perfect balance for Granderson’s lefty splits.
Wait till we do it all over Again
December 9th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
The Grandy man can?
**********************
LOL.
I can hear Sterling now.
Boras hating on Granderson – how pathetic.
Curtis Granderson will hit for a higher average, and go back to being a dynamic offensive player, playing half his games at Yankee Stadium.
Funny – that’s the same argument I use for signing Ryan Church to play RF.
We have no idea, but logic says that after 2 tommy johns he’s an injury risk and possibly may not come back full strength even if uninjured.
Pass.
Kevin Long is anxious to make this trade look like it was meant to happen.
He won’t need to throw as the DH.
Steveoh -
No no to Cano in the 2 spot.
—
It would be great if these “no’s” were accompanied by reasons.
Cano is a good enough overall hitter to hit high in the lineup. He hits for a high average. He hits many extra base hits. His OBP is decent (probably will be at least as good as Granderson, if not better). He doesn’t strike out a lot, in fact he strikes out very little. He has struggled driving in runs while hitting lower in the order, so #2 may be a better fit than #5-7. He’s not a base stealer, but has decent basepath speed.
I think he’d be quite good in the #2 spot.
Cashman: Talent & character in Granderson. Able to replace some of the power potentially lost by Matsui and Damon.
The yankees need to get blacker. Sign cameron, trade for Bradley.
Boras on Granderson: “He’s clearly not a number two hitter, and with his power comes the detriment of strikeouts.” Says Damon still fits NYY
I find nothing wrong with that statement. Damon does still fit (if he’s willing to take a 1 year deal at about 9 mil) and Granderson’s not the guy I would want batting 2nd.
I would be very happy with:
Jeter, Damon, Tex, Alex, Granderson, Posada, Cano, Swisher, Church
“We have no idea, but logic says that after 2 tommy johns he’s an injury risk and possibly may not come back full strength even if uninjured.”
Please, stop it. He’s an outfielder that might make five throws a game, not a pitcher throwing pitches to a batter.
I didn’t mention throwing. By full strength, I’m also implying that his hitting could be affected.
Black is BACK
Cashman:
Damon and Matsui accounted for roughly 50 HRs and Granderson was a way to make up a chunk of that production with his lefty power bat in Yankee Stadium.
He’s also a good clubhouse guy who they think will fit in and be able to handle NY.
Granderson doesn’t necessarily prevent Damon and Matsui from coming back. He provides comfort level when we have our discussions going forward but the next few decisions we make will also be important in 2010 and beyond.
I do have legitimate concerns that putting Granderson and Cameron in the same lineup (along with Nick Swisher) will result in a lot of unproductive outs. Though the breeze generated should be nice for fans.
–
As long as Cameron gets on base around .340 and Granderson can pull it back up to .360 their added power and combined patience over Damon + Melky will make everyone forget about unproductive outs.
crawdaddy-Please don’t talk to me like I have no idea what I’m talking about. I do. I won’t stop if I have a point to make.
It would be great if these “no’s” were accompanied by reasons
He’s not a terribly instinctive ballplayer and I prefer that my #2 hitter be someone who understand situational hitting a little more than Robbie does.
UPDATE, 4:48 p.m.: Cashman said this deal doesn’t rule out bringing back Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui. “The next decisions we make are just as important,” he said.
********************
“crawdaddy-Please don’t talk to me like I have no idea what I’m talking about. I do. I won’t stop if I have a point to make.”
You don’t know what you’re talking about because the Yankees wouldn’t sign Nady if they had those same concerns.
Nady couldn’t even make 1 throw a game after injury. I think that is a legit concern.
“You’re talking about a potential OF of Mike Cameron, Curtis Granderson and Nick Swisher – Yes, they might hit a combined 80 HR, but they also might hit .250 with 500 strikeouts.”
Strikeouts don’t matter. BA doesn’t matter much.
Granderson is more likely to hit .270-.300 than he is to hit .250.
And the fact is, they all have good OBP despite the low averages. Not to mention they are all above average fielders. That would be an amazing outfield – Granderson, Cameron, Swisher from left to right.
“I didn’t mention throwing. By full strength, I’m also implying that his hitting could be affected.”
You definitely don’t know what you’re talking about.
Granderson’s numbers out of Comerica were much better. He’s gonna go off at YSN.
I’m still beside myself today after Brandon (‘I’M AWESOME), all PO’d about the Grandy trade called Granderson, “The Black Swisher”
If Jason Bay goes to Seattle, Matt Holliday will be too expensive for Boston’s taste with Boras driving a hard bargain.
Enter Ryan Church.
I don’t see why the Yankees don’t just give Damon a two-year deal already. He’s not that bad in the outfield. He can’t throw? so what. Bernie Williams couldn’t throw either and he lasted a long time.
How many games would you say Damon cost the Yankees in the field last year? one? three? Hi bat more than makes up for it.
The Yankees need to make a decent two-year offer then go public with it to put the pressure on Bor-ass and his imaginary three and four-year offers.
Wait-I now have “Candy Man” stuck in my head, thank you very much. LOL I want to go home and watch Willy Wonka.
I prefer to think of Nick Swisher as The White Granderson
“The yankees need to get blacker. Sign cameron, trade for Bradley.”
Hell yeah, all black outfield!
crawdaddy-Hitting all the time, the constant wear and tear on his body could get him reinjured.
Anyway, why wouldn’t it affect his hitting?
their added power and combined patience over Damon + Melky will make everyone forget about unproductive outs.
Well that’s not exactly true.
Neither Granderson or Cameron are more patient than Damon so let’s put that to rest right now. Damon’s an ideal #2 hitter for this team and thinking that he’s easily replaceable is a mistake.
And also, I don’t think we’ll forget about unproductive outs when the Yankees can’t push a runner in from 3rd with 1 out because Swisher and Cameron strike out to end the inning.
Wait till we do it all over Again
December 9th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
The Grandy man can?
–
this one gets my vote!
Jerkface
December 9th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
I prefer to think of Nick Swisher as The White Granderson
—
LOL
“The yankees need to get blacker. Sign cameron, trade for Bradley.”
No way. The guy is a clubhouse cancer. We don’t need him anywhere near the Bronx.
Nady has had two tommy john’s now. And he played through injury most of the yr before. I’m just saying if his elbow is healthy i would rather him than cameron. That’s just my opinion. In the last 4 yrs Mike Cameron has been suspended twice for banned substances and fined or suspended for altercations with umpires.
If Granderson’s the black Swisher that’s a GOOD thing. And he won’t be. He’ll be better than Swisher. Not to mention that even if he’s the same offensively he’s better defensively.
“No way. The guy is a clubhouse cancer. We don’t need him anywhere near the Bronx.”
Maybe so, but his blackness is off the charts. I think this is an easy one. Go get Bradley asap
Not to mention they are all above average fielders. That would be an amazing outfield – Granderson, Cameron, Swisher from left to right.
Swisher is not an above average OF. If you want to go all defense and hope they hit enough then put Melky in RF with them.
Glad the deal is finalized. 1 more day of meetings left.
LF should be next, then DH.
I prefer to think of Nick Swisher as The White Granderson
Except about half as talented
we still need matsui for 1 year. I cant think of any other hitter out there who is as good a situational hitter, clutch, and power threat. There isnt many other hitters Id like up with a runner on 2nd and the yanks down a run. Godzilla almost always seems to come through.
Curtis Granderson has never been DFA’ed and his bad years equal Ryan Church’s best year.
Something you have a hard time comprehending.
Granderson’s picture looks like a bobblehead lol!
Cashman just said Granderson slots for the number two hole very nicely. The ball is in your court, Boras.
“Swisher is not an above average OF. If you want to go all defense and hope they hit enough then put Melky in RF with them.”
Yes he is.
Melky as a fulltime corner outfielder is… not a good idea.
man can cashman talk
he never stops but i like him
he starts by taking a big breath.then goes for a while & if you interupt he gives you a look & starts growling at you
My thinking is sign Holliday and go with CC, AJ, Andy, Joba and Phil. The Yankees wouldn’t be desperate for starting pitching and they can still dangle Joba or Phil for a cost-controlled starter. Still many chips on the table to make it all come together.
Damon probably wears pinstripes next year. For the White Sox.
Now I’m thinking of changing my name to “The White Granderson” or “The Black Swisher”.
And Chip, don’t waste people’s time bringing up players like Church as a joke and then getting all excited defending him.
That’s the quickest way to get everyone to ignore you.
Cashman admitted that right field at Yankee Stadium played into their thinking for getting Granderson with his pull ability.
“And also, I don’t think we’ll forget about unproductive outs when the Yankees can’t push a runner in from 3rd with 1 out because Swisher and Cameron strike out to end the inning.”
Yeah, but that’s more than balanced by all the times they’ll score a runner from first on a HR.
Enough productive plate appearances overwhelm some unproductive outs. Focus on the forest, not the trees.
crawdaddy December 9th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
“Cashman just said Granderson slots for the number two hole very nicely. The ball is in your court, Boras.”
Good for Ca$h, If that’s not a shot across Scotty B’s negotiating bow nothing is.
bret, if you came to RAB they would destry your arguements with logic.
However, it is a good idea to play Melky in LF and keep him as the backup CF
“man can cashman talk
he never stops but i like him
he starts by taking a big breath.then goes for a while & if you interupt he gives you a look & starts growling at you”
But he rarely says anything of substance.:)
“ESPN’s Buster Olney has heard that Rich Harden is on the verge of an agreement with an unknown team. Olney notes that Harden has been heavily involved in negotiations with the Mariners, so that’s one possibility.”
please let it be the Yanks. just saying.
RAB not my cup of tea. Interesting info. but I have a life ya know.
Harden is injured sooo many times. I’d like him to come to the Yanks but only for the bullpen.
Wow, Keith Law actually said on ESPN that the Jays need to keep Doc out of the Yankees’ hands? I don’t care if he got straight A’s at Harvard – the guy is a presumptuous, arrogant horse’s patootie.
Wow, “distraught”? You don’t hear that kind of language from Cash too often. I don’t think he’ll be trading any of his other kids, no matter who they are (Romine, McAllister, etc…), anytime soon if that’s an indication.
Wait till we do it all over Again
December 9th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
The Grandy man can?
————————————
i like it
DaSaint,
I see Damon as a White Sox as well. Kenny Williams has had the horns for Damon for some time now.
Bret-You’re posting on a baseball blog right now.
Try posting on RAB, they’re FAR more knowledgable and logical over there.
On the whole. Not that there aren’t good posters here.
Mike Francesa just said that Cashman told him at that breakfast thing they did together. That if the yanks sign Pettitte they will not sign another big pitcher in the offseason.
Man that is great news I hope Cashman sticks to that. The yanks have enough to win I hope they keep the payroll around 185 million like they wanted too.
Cashman on MLB Network sounds more open to Joba in the pen than I’ve ever heard him.
Church’s career numbers – 548 games
.272 BA, .345 OBP, 107 OPS+
Granderson Career numbers – 674 games
.272 BA, .344 OBP, 112 OPS+
I’m not saying Church is as good as Granderson
By the way, Church’s numbers are also pretty close to another guy the Yankees picked up on the cheap nearly twenty years ago from the Cincy Reds.
He’s not a terribly instinctive ballplayer and I prefer that my #2 hitter be someone who understand situational hitting a little more than Robbie does.
—
This, from someone who is waving pom poms for Ryan Church, and would bat Granderson 5th and Cano 7th…
Here are last year’s numbers:
Cano: .320/.352/.520
Granderson: .249/.327/.453
Granderson’s “away” numbers were better, but with Cano we pretty much know what we’re going to get and with Granderson it remains to be seen.
Wait till we do it all over Again
December 9th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Bret-You’re posting on a baseball blog right now.
—
thanx for the tip
“Cashman on MLB Network sounds more open to Joba in the pen than I’ve ever heard him.”
Why, what’d he say?
Where’s Erica?? Wonder what she thinks of the Granderson deal as it impacts Damon coming back to the yanks..
Bret-Just saying you just tried to tell me you had a life, yet why can’t you spend the time you’re using to post on a baseball blog right now to try a different baseball blog?
Just saying.
Yep, once you tell Francesca, that’s it. Done. Closed. Time to go home. LOL.
Please.
Mike Francesa just said that Cashman told him at that breakfast thing they did together. That if the yanks sign Pettitte they will not sign another big pitcher in the offseason.
Man that is great news I hope Cashman sticks to that. The yanks have enough to win I hope they keep the payroll around 185 million like they wanted too.
—
I’m ok with a rotation of CC, AJ, Andy, Joba and Phil but the Yankees still need to sign a guy like Harden.
pat,
I agree, I got that same impression watching him just now.
Certainly different from his hardline stance that Joba would be in the rotation and shooting down anyone who thought otherwise, like he did last winter
pat
December 9th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Cashman:
Damon and Matsui accounted for roughly 50 HRs and Granderson was a way to make up a chunk of that production with his lefty power bat in Yankee Stadium.
He’s also a good clubhouse guy who they think will fit in and be able to handle NY.
Granderson doesn’t necessarily prevent Damon and Matsui from coming back. He provides comfort level when we have our discussions going forward but the next few decisions we make will also be important in 2010 and beyond.
—————————————————
granderson does prevent damon & mastsui from coming back
no way do both return
Wait till we do it all over Again
December 9th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Bret-Just saying you just tried to tell me you had a life, yet why can’t you spend the time you’re using to post on a baseball blog right now to try a different baseball blog?
Just saying.
—
This blog is more conversational, less aristocratic. I don’t compute baseball stats in my head when I sleep like the folks at sites like RAB. I dream of naked chics.
I actually think we’re signing a free agent starter and Joba will be in the pen.
I can’t imagine he’d be too happy about that since making him a reliever for good affects his earning potential. Closers don’t get 20 million dollar a year contracts.
Cashman has been stressing “pitching pitching pitching” this off-season… that doesn’t sound like he simply planning on re-signing Andy (who we knew was coming back anyway) and doing nothing else for the rotation. Every interview he stressed how important pitching is this year.
Cashman is placing the onus on both, Hughes and Joba to prove they stay in the Yankee rotation.
granderson does prevent damon & mastsui from coming back
no way do both return
–
Only if you have to pay the same or higher AAV than they were paid last year.
If, for example, you get Damon for 1yr/10 million and Matsui for 1yr/6 million, you’d have Granderson, Damon, and Matsui for less than Damon and Matsui last year.
Granderson’s “away” numbers were better, but with Cano we pretty much know what we’re going to get and with Granderson it remains to be seen.
I gather you are a big time Cano fan?
I bat Granderson 5th because he’s probably going to hit around 35-40 HR next season and frankly I think that kind of power production belongs in the heart of the order.
And the reason Cano is 7th and not 6th is because I’m using Posada to split up the lefties.
Cashman on working on a contract extension for Jeter-
He started a practice in the recent past not to re-negotiate contracts until necessary but it will get done.
Jeter, Mo and Girardi all will be looking at new contracts after 2010 so it wouldn’t be fair to work on one without the others.
True, but if you really want to figure out whether someone’s a good or bad player or whther the Yankees made a good or bad move, or basically if you want the most complete info about the Yanks, RAB is the better blog.
RAB is a great blog but I detest the comment section, its too hard to keep track of comments due to the nested reply feature.
I like scrolling down a conversation here and being able to gather all the comments in order.
Also, Melky can easily be your RF if he is the 9th best hitter on the team because all your skill positions are filled with good hitters. There is not rule that says your RF must be a very good hitter.
“This blog is more conversational, less aristocratic. I don’t compute baseball stats in my head when I sleep like the folks at sites like RAB. I dream of naked chics.”
Too funny as I consider that site a baseball nerd site for guys that have trouble getting any chics.
cashman was on a verbal roll in the mlb interview.
clearly enjoying talking about the granderson trade and any thing else that was brought up.
good thing they don’t check gms for greenies
Actualy, I prefer the nested comments. That way you know who’s talking to who.
Also, Melky can easily be your RF if he is the 9th best hitter on the team because all your skill positions are filled with good hitters. There is not rule that says your RF must be a very good hitter.
You’re right. But knowing the Yankees, it’s just not good enough.
Mike Francesa just said that Cashman told him at that breakfast thing they did together. That if the yanks sign Pettitte they will not sign another big pitcher in the offseason.
This is the same Brian Cashman who said last year that there was no way that he could add Tex after shelling out for CC and AJ right?
The Ryan Church stuff is fun for me, but in truth I still see the Yankees bringing back Damon and adding Holliday too.
Jeter, Damon (DH), Tex, Alex, Holliday, Granderson, Posada, Cano, Swisher.
I find your biases about RAB fascinating.
I think Cashman has a bad taste in his mouth from how “handing” rotation spots to kids the last 2 years worked out. 08 was a disaster, and 09 Joba was out of shape coming into camp.
I think he thinks a competition is the best way to go about it. Motivate both guys right from the beginning.
Chip, of couse I am a fan of Cano, because of .320/.352/.520 (not to mention nice defense and missing almost zero time).
I like Granderson, I suspect he will improve from last year, but I wouldn’t hand him a more important spot in the lineup from the start.
I think our rotation stays the same. Maybe Wang is signed to a rehab deal for backup.
“Too funny as I consider that site a baseball nerd site for guys that have trouble getting any chics.”
Same. They like take all the fun out of the sport and turn it into some kind of video game. Stats are fine in moderation, but they take it to the extreme
Like I said, I like the info. at RAB but I like it even more when one of the LOHUD regulars links it here for me. I read MoneyBall and understood it but I’m still the same fan I’ve always been. I detest K’s and low BA and find OBP boring. All the more advanced stats they have now – forget it. I do like Nate Silver though. There’s a dork I’d have a beer with and talk baseball. He runs a politics site where he projects elections and analyzes polling data. He’s a genius – but even he – I suspect – needs to get laid more often.
“Why, what’d he say?”
He said Hughes, Joba and Aceves will all come into camp as starters but they have all proved to be able to handle pitching out of the pen too.
He said if something presents itself and they find themselves with additional starters, they would re-evaluate if Joba to the pen would be the move to make.
The Yankees will add another starter this off-season, IMO.
When they do, Joba will end up in the pen.
I think the Yankees are now realizing his future is in the pen.
By continuing to say he’s a starter, it doesn’t emote any sign of desperation on their end.
I don’t think their off-season pitching plan involved just re-signing Andy Pettitte. There will be another arm added.
Cash indicated he was still in the starting pitching market and that somethings were more realisitic than others. Sounded like a message for the Jays. Matsui makes more sense now than Damon.
RABs abuse of Francesa a few days ago was classic. I agree the comments section is hard to navigate, but the comments can be hilarious.
Chip, there is no way they’ll get both Damon and Holliday. You can forget about that.
I love the whole ‘nerds cant get girls!’ thing. It goes right in the bucket with ‘You dont watch the games, you just read spreadsheets!’ arguments.
I’m no Tiger Woods, but I’ve scored plenty of attractive women and currently have a girlfriend. I also love stats. I coincidentally, also love to WATCH BASEBALL. (For every stat nerd who was drawn to baseball because of the numbers, there are 100 guys who were drawn to the numbers because they watched baseball)
SJ44 December 9th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
The Yankees will add another starter this off-season, IMO.
When they do, Joba will end up in the pen.
I think the Yankees are now realizing his future is in the pen.
By continuing to say he’s a starter, it doesn’t emote any sign of desperation on their end.
I don’t think their off-season pitching plan involved just re-signing Andy Pettitte. There will be another arm added.
—
That’s what I said in a previous thread. I think they’ll get Sheets, or possibly Harden or Bedard (both more scary than Sheets), and unless someone’s arm falls off in spring training, Joba will be setting up Mo.
Not liking advanced stats, finding OBP boring, and detesting strikeouts just means that you haven’t taken the time to understand the game. It doesn’t mean it’s right.
I understand what you’re saying though. That you don’t WANT to take the time to understand the game. That’s fine, just don’t get upset when people cite OBP as more useful than BA and cite advanced statistics that you debunk because you don’t understand them.
You’d be interested to know that RAB takes the opposite view. They consider LoHud a blog of delusional idiots.
Both blogs are taking the biases to the extreme.
The nested comments make it hard to jump in, you never know if a conversation is still going on, and it gets dicey when the comments stop nesting.
LOHUD I can scroll to the bottom and check the time to see the pace of the conversation.
Each RAB post is like its own forum. Each lohud post is like its own thread in a forum. Far superior in my opinion. (I also post on a bunch of forums).
How thrilled must Granderson be about this trade? He probably hasn’t stopped smiling since he heard about it.
After seeing Joba come to camp out of shape last year, how can they guarantee him a spot in the rotation?
I agree SJ, I highly doubt Cash goes to ST with both kids in the rotation.
I can’t believe someone actually compared ryan church to paul o’neill…
harden is apparently signing with someone, probably the mariners , but someone is saying the Rangers.
7.5mil for 1 year + 11.5 option on 2nd
We’re not getting Holliday.
Halladay we might get though if the Blue Jays drop their demands which I think they will.
Right now it’s a game of chicken between the Yankees and the Jays. If the Yankees sign Sheets or someone else, they are basically telling the Blue Jays to get lost.
For example, Joba (or Hughes) in the pen-If you read RAB for a day, you’d be convinced the notion was ridiculous (which I believe).
Personally, I think or rotation stays set. I think that even if we pick up another starter, the one pushed out (ie Joba or Hughes) goes to the minors, not the bullpen.
“I love the whole ‘nerds cant get girls!’ thing.”
I thought that was only true when talking about guys who watch Sci-Fi like Star Wars and Star Trek.
I don’t know about the other girls on this blog, but there is something sexy about a guy who loves baseball and knows his stats. That doesn’t make him a nerd; that makes him hot.
Some team will give Wang a better contract than us. Why would he sign with us, knowing there is a possibility he stays in AAA even when he is healthy? We didn’t treat him well here anyway, so it isin’t like he owes us anything.
He’s much better off signing with a team where he has a guaranteed shot of getting into their rotation so he can show he is healthy and market himself for 2011. He may not get that opportunity here.
Cashman doesn’t seem to hot on him, I think his time is done here.
“I think that even if we pick up another starter, the one pushed out (ie Joba or Hughes) goes to the minors, not the bullpen.”
Maybe the Yanks would have thought that way before the Great Hughes Bullpen Move, but not anymore. Odd man out (if it comes to that) is the set-up guy.
SJ44
December 9th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
The Yankees will add another starter this off-season, IMO.
When they do, Joba will end up in the pen.
I think the Yankees are now realizing his future is in the pen.
By continuing to say he’s a starter, it doesn’t emote any sign of desperation on their end.
I don’t think their off-season pitching plan involved just re-signing Andy Pettitte. There will be another arm added.
—
You could be right, but Joba would be needed in the rotation if they trade for Halladay since Hughes would be gone. They may want to make a double-kill by snatching Lackey away from the Angels thus forcing them to double-pay for Roy Halladay or lose him as a 1 year rental like they lost Teixiera.
John Harper on SNY now… hearing that Henry could get involved in negotiations because he doesn’t want to fall behind in this rivalry and could see Doc as a way to put them over the top.
So far I’ve heard no offers on Wang. I think that his choices are limited to rehab deals only. If so, I think the Yanks can get him.
Cashman mentioned nothing about “Joba Rules”. That ship has sailed.
If Joba shows up early to spring training and gets himself in [real] pitching condition, he competes with Hughes for a rotation spot. Otherwise he’s destined for the bullpen.
sj44-
i’m a little concerned.
i just listened to cashman talk for the whole mlb interview and he didn’t say one thing that bothered me.
Wave-Why does moving Hughes to the pen for half a season make a sifference as to how they handle it now?
I thought that was only true when talking about guys who watch Sci-Fi like Star Wars and Star Trek.
I don’t know about the other girls on this blog, but there is something sexy about a guy who loves baseball and knows his stats. That doesn’t make him a nerd; that makes him hot.
–
Star Wars is space fantasy anyone can love, the ‘nerd show’ is star trek. But this proves my point, there you go vorpies, you could have Laura if you want!
(also anyone could be a ‘nerd’ ‘geek’ or ‘dork’, its not limited by subject. Nerds are just smarter than normal about a subject ‘stat nerds’ ‘car nerds’, Geeks just love something too much, and dorks are socially awkward.)
“John Harper on SNY now… hearing that Henry could get involved in negotiations because he doesn’t want to fall behind in this rivalry and could see Doc as a way to put them over the top.”
Maybe Henry would give up Lester. He’s the only thing the RS have that would make it a fair deal.
Matsui (@ $8 million?) as full-time DH seems like the best bet, and that’s fine with me. Damon, due to Boras, will want a 3 year deal. Don’t think the Yankees want to go past 1.
Payroll (on 25-man roster) would be about $195 million.
“harden is apparently signing with someone, probably the mariners , but someone is saying the Rangers.”
If it’s the Mariners, that’s more proof that they are making an effort at taking down those Angels. Harden is injury prone, but a very good pitcher when healthy. One caveat though – while with the Cubs, he turned into a 5 inning max guy. It will be interesting to see how he does back in the AL.
i just listened to cashman talk for the whole mlb interview and he didn’t say one thing that bothered me.
–
I think you’re at the final stage, acceptance.
“You’d be interested to know that RAB takes the opposite view. They consider LoHud a blog of delusional idiots. ”
I think it’s more of a left side/right side of the brain kind of thing.
“i just listened to cashman talk for the whole mlb interview and he didn’t say one thing that bothered me.”
Actually, he was terrific, particularly his comment about having a high K, high GB pitching staff and a high flyball, left-handed power hitting offensive which fits NYS.
I don’t see the Sox giving up Lester. He’s their best pitcher.
Harden to Texas – MLBTR
Wave Your Hat-You would fit in at LoHud, for example, since you use logic to back up your arguements.
Idiots at RAB get abused.
“You’d be interested to know that RAB takes the opposite view. They consider LoHud a blog of delusional idiots.”
The blog has improved immeasurably since there was a regime change.
I told you a read MoneyBall and understood it. I understand the basic statistical precipes of the game but find that the statheads ignore some of the immeasurable intangibles that make the game fun and exciting for most fans. For instance, makeup. Difficult to quantify. Stats exist for it and the scouts count it. Yes. But you need human beings instead of computers to determine the quality. The Yanks front office is finally valuing player ‘makeup’ properly when they go about targeting players. Player’s personalities. Fans care about them, but you don’t find them in Bill James’ calculator.
“Star Wars is space fantasy anyone can love, the ‘nerd show’ is star trek. But this proves my point, there you go vorpies, you could have Laura if you want!”
Well, let’s not get crazy. I’m a bit pickier than that. You can’t just know baseball and stats. It would help if you had a job, a good sense of humor and bore a striking resemblance to Nick Markakis.
Ehh…Nah, it hasn’t changed too much.
Well, let’s not get crazy. I’m a bit pickier than that. You can’t just know baseball and stats. It would help if you had a job, a good sense of humor and bore a striking resemblance to Nick Markakis.
==
Stats, a job, humor, AND nick markakis? Ok, SCOTT BORAS. Way to set the bar too high. You’ll be happy to know I can get you knowledge up to VORP, part-time job, laughs at knock-knock jokes, and Nick Johnson for 1 year.
“Ehh…Nah, it hasn’t changed too much.”
Come on, Wait. It has changed. How many anti-Alex posts have you seen since Chad and co took over? Zero! Part of that is due to Alex keeping his nose clean. However, I’m sure that the former runner of this blog would have dug up something on him.
Oh brother – I knew it. John Henry’s going to get Doc to the Sox.
“I don’t see the Sox giving up Lester. He’s their best pitcher.”
Reboot your sarcasm detector.
Sure the posts have changed, but the commenters…not so much.
Oops, sorry.
Sarcasm detector rebooted.
SJ44
December 9th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
The Yankees will add another starter this off-season, IMO.
When they do, Joba will end up in the pen.
I think the Yankees are now realizing his future is in the pen.
By continuing to say he’s a starter, it doesn’t emote any sign of desperation on their end.
I don’t think their off-season pitching plan involved just re-signing Andy Pettitte. There will be another arm added.
————————————————————
Between Hughes and Chamberlain, Chamberlain is more suited for the bullpen. I see a lot of similarities between him and Rich Gossage. Come stomping in out of the bullpen and knowing he has that big fastball and slider, with a touch of wildness is an intimidating sight.
Let Henry try. Yanks still have better chips, and will block it.
I think all blogs in general have good and bad attached to them.
I like RAB for the columns. I find those guys offer interesting talking points on a daily basis. Something that is very tough to do when you don’t have real access to the team.
This place has a great community of posters and Sam, Chad and Josh have done a good job of keeping it alive.
Both blogs have their shares of clowns who work overtime to mess up conversations but, that goes with the territory.
Overall though, I think RAB and LoHud have the 2 best Yankee blogs on the ‘net.
I like LoHud for the latest news and RAB for the analysis.
So if Joba may go to the pen, then he’s not being traded for Halladay……unless the Yankees decide to trade him because they view him simply as a reliever.
I seriously doubt Cash told Francesca anything of the sort, especially since he’s been preaching pitching, pitching, pitching……
Harden to the Rangers? Hmm, I’d thought they’d go for Sheets- too much $$, I guess.
I always had a feeling that Henry would overrule Theo for a big fish (like Halladay).
His team got swept in the first round and has aging players all over the field and plenty of holes while his arch-rival just won the WS and started the off-season with a bang and the Sox are going to just sit back and come back with the same team in 2010 (perhaps even minus Bay)?
I don’t think so. Sox are going to make some kind of big move. Gammons, Theo, and the rest of the spin machines can talk about how this year is a “transition” year, but nobody should buy it.
Pettitte will be on WFAN with Sweeny at 6:30.
Randy,
LOL. You have been drifting over to our side of the aisle for awhile re: Cashman.
Its good just to come clean at this point and admit you like him.
Coming clean worked for Arod. It could work for you too! LOL
“Its amazing how someone who spends days on here looking for the Yankees to acquire washed up and DFA’ed players, could have problems with the Yankees acquiring Granderson and/or Mike Cameron”
——————————–
no kidding. Before moving to NY, had believed NYY fans to be the most intelligent baseball fans. Had given them too much credit. And the 50/50 reaction to this trade, confirms it. ST Louis fans are the most intelligent, and may be as avid.
randy l.
December 9th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
sj44-
i’m a little concerned.
i just listened to cashman talk for the whole mlb interview and he didn’t say one thing that bothered me.
————————————————————
Who is this bum? Throw the imposter off of the boards.
Joba is a pretty high price to pay for a guy who is going to be a FA next year. Even if Joba is only a reliever.
Given Henry’s recent record, the price he pays will probably kill them.
I need a Granderson interview about this trade.
Henry will find a way to screw up negotiations & piss off Toronto.
Better leave Lucchino out of the room.
If they acquire Halladay, it wouldn’t be a rental. He would be signed to a new deal.
Lindstrom is an Astro. I don’t know what the Marlins got.
randy l -
I just cracked up reading your post to SJ44 !
I was just going to type that that was one of the best interviews I’ve seen Cashman give.
I think he actually covered all the bases. I liked everything he had to say. I like that he seems very open-minded in every direction – Damon, Matsu or other; Joba to the pen or the rotation depending; maybe another pitcher from the outside if the right situation presents itself.
I like that he gave the impression of all the work and thought that has gone into everything he’s done.
I liked his answer to the Jeter extension question.
I think the Yankees are in a very good place, and I think Cash has had much to do with getting there.
I like that they are looking for quality people who are not going to cause contagious headaches.
It was interesting that Mike Cameron’s name came up as one of the quality personalities in baseball. This explains a lot to me. It also causes me some chagrin, because apparently Cameron is on Cash’s radar and the many people posting here that Cameron could be an option apparently have a point.
If Doc gets traded to Boston, he might not even be there in free agency.
If all Cashman and the rest of the evaluators value Joba as a reliever long term, then it makes sense to deal him for Halladay.
Doreen,
Mike Cameron is one of the five most respected players in the game by other players.
Ironically, Jeter, CC and Granderson are also on the list, with Albert Pujols rounding it out.
It would be something if the Yankees had 4 of the 5 most respected players in the game by other players in their clubhouse.
Tells you that chemistry and the clubhouse do matter with GM’s.
Hey Chad – no reason to apologize for fast posts! We don’t mind, really!
Yanks had Granderson get his eyes checked, per Kay- that’s what held the deal up-
Leave it to Henry to do something like that…great, Doc on the Sox. I know the Yanks asked the Jays to get back to them before they make any deal, but who knows if Anthopolous will honor that?
Doreen, I think Cashman has everybody that fits his mold of the right player is on his radar…..quality person and the right talent for the position to be filled. He’d never go after a Barry Bonds or Milton Bradley.
Betsy,
Relax. There is no pending deal of Halladay to the Red Sox.
Save your worry for things that actually happen.
SJ44 -
Pujols is also on my pipe dream list.
I got Tex and Granderson.
It now would not surprise me if Damon and/or Matsui slip away, Mike Cameron ends up here.
I don’t think I’ll ever get Pujols, though.
There’s no way MLB allows the Yankees to get all 5 of the most respected players in MLB. (And there’d be a logjam at first anyway.)
Whoever mentioned Cashman’s reaction to how the new YS plays to the Yankees’ strengths – did you see his eyes light up when he was talking about that? Somehow, I don’t see any changes being made to that stadium anytime soon.
Plus, as the year went on, those HRs really did go down. Has anyone done research on the month-to-month HR numbers at NYS?
“Theo doesn’t care what the fans want,” was the way one major league executive put it. “He’s not going to react just because the Yankees made a deal. But (owner) John Henry might be a different story.
“After everything their organization has done to turn the tables on the Yankees the last several years, (Henry) is very concerned about any perception the Sox have fallen behind them again. And he knows Halladay is the ultimate protection, whether you’re talking perception or reality.”
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....z0ZEdIZiLU
What in the world is KC thinking about? Offering two years to Jason Kendell?
GB7 -
You know, it matters. Personality/ability to handle pressure (fishbowl) matters very much in NY.
You can’t just sign a Randy Johnson without paying attention to his surliness.
I can’t see the Yankees changing anything about the Stadium until the old park comes down, and they see if the wind currents change things.
The Jays will absolutely check with the Yanks before dealing Doc to the Sox…they will try to get the best offer possible and there is no better leverage against the Yanks than the threat of an ace being dealt to Boston
Anyone else like trades better than simply signing free agents?
Don’t get me wrong. Loved signing Tex & CC. But there’s something about trades.
I see Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson and Gary Sheffield as being more of the GM Steinbrenner driven deals than Cashman.
GB7 =
True. I forgot the old stadium still isn’t down. Boy, are the selling the dust?????
Doreen
The players you covet shows you have good taste.
I hope, for your husbands sake, you don’t aim that high when you go shopping.
GB7
I agree with that take on the situation. Apparently the word a**essment doesn’t get through the filter.
With Rich Harden going to the Rangers, they’ll most be out of the running for Ben Sheets.
I think the old park is supposed to be down by early summer.
Maine Yankees -
My husband is lucky. They never sell exactly what I’m looking for and I very rarely settle!!! (I’m very particular – I’ll wait months or years to make the right purchase on certain items!)
A number of people have commented on Granderson’s difficulty hitting left handed pitching. It’s true that he really has had trouble with breaking pitches from lefties.
That said, what really matters here is how Granderson’s skill set is valued in the context of the trade. If his skill sets are properly valuated than that can be factored into the price paid. And that’s exactly what the yankees did here.
On that note the Yankees did very well because they gave up both a reasonable amount of talent to get him and gave up talent they could afford to lose because those guys can be replaced.
Granderson is a terrific player but one with certain stark limitations. As such, the entire key to making the right trade for him was really defining how those limits affect his valuation.
On face Granderson is one of the 3-4 best CF in baseball. To be able to acquire an up the middle player like that is a terrific opporunity – not one that comes along often.
And to acquire a top CF like that – one who is under 30 and signed to a very reasonable contract – should cost something like Hughes/Joba + Jackson + 2 other prospects.
But there’s some argument to be said that Granderson could be valued at less than the all star he is because of the relatively down years he’s had the past two seasons and his platoon splits. At the same time is he really a true “platoon player” especially with his plus defense?
Jackson is a good prospect but he too right now is a flawed one. A couple of years ago the Tigers tried to rush Cam Maybin and that didn’t work out at all. We’ll see how it goes with Jackson. I don’t think he’s ready. In fact I think he’s a full season away.
This was a very good deal for the yankees because they valuated Granderson closer to a “platoon player” than an “all star” so to speak. It was a fair deal for the tigers and yanks and the surplus value needed to make it fair for those two teams was derived from Arizona.
In acquiring Scherzer + Jackson Detroit valuated Granderson as an all star. In trading Jackson + Kennedy + … the yankees valuated Granderson as an up the middle player who does somethings extraordinarily well and others poorly.
This was a very good trade for the yankees. And I do think Granderson ruined his swing some the past two years by trying to hit for more power in the context of a detroit line up that suddenly aged overnight and fell off a cliff.
In the deep yankees line up Granderson should fit in very, very well.
I have to give credit to Cashman. The past couple of years he has done a great job as GM. Building up the farm, getting the right players who are in their prime. Good work and I expect more.
After reading all the glowing reviews on the 37 year old Michael Cameron who is coming off a 10 million dollar contract especially from some posters who over the years I’ve come to respect…….I’m trying to revisit my stand on the guy as a replacement for Melky in left field, or center if Curtis slides over……I just don’t that great of an upside to justify the money, which could be used else where…I mean Cameron was paid 6 times what Melky makes, and is he really that much better ???? I suppose he’d take a cut in terms of money on a 1 year deal….I’m just not embracing this as a solution …..
Chip
December 9th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Swisher is not an above average OF. If you want to go all defense and hope they hit enough then put Melky in RF with them.
———————————–
Swisher is most certainly an above average RF. Above average CF? No. In terms of defense he falls somewhere in the 5-10 range of RF in baseball (most likely closer to 10 than 5)
Also in order for the yankees to derive maxium possible value from Granderson they need to sign a left fielder.
Having a plus CF with the bat while playing a minus LF really negates the potential up the middle strength.
The key to really making Granderson a potentially huge pick up is to fortify LF (and DH though to a lesser extent)
this is the 1st true all-around CFer this team has had in how long
Just thinking…you know, if the Yankees sign another starter, they don’t necessarily need to move anybody out of the rotation. Just go to a six man. After all, Hughsie does have an innings limit.
CB, Is your reference to the LF position one that is heavily offensive or defensively ???? Is Melky that inferior to Mike Cameron , who has recieved much support here…..
Pat M,
I would try to sign Damon again given the potential choices, though I am concerned with how bad he was in the field. There is a real argument to be made that he is more a DH than anything else now.
Regarding Cameron – who I know is a contentious figure here – I do like him. He is a better ball player than Melky is now though it is reasonable to wonder whether the difference in money is worth it. That however assumes 1) Mekly will perform like last year/ continue to improve and 2) The yankees are really running into hard budget issues.
Otherwise Cameron is a better player than Melky. However, I still think Damon would be a better choice because of his offensive skill set vs. Cameron’s combo of power hitting and defense.
In the end I think Damon will sign. This team has the chance to be tremendous next year and Damon knows that.
Cameron is a waste of money. That money could go to a better hitter, the bullpen, and the rotation.
Say No to old steroid man Cameron. And no to Glaus(steroid user) and Ryan Church the racist.
I’d be more inclined to resign Matsui and let Cabrera take over in left field. His numbers should continue to climb to closer to .285, 17-20 homers, 75-80 RBI. At Yankee Stadium, I’d prefer his arm in the bigger left field. There’s a better chance of him progressing than Cameron staying no worse than he was this year, and they both had similar numbers.
Cash did say at the press conference that he was looking to get a couple of more things done
SJ, I’m trying not to worry, lol. I realize that article was sheer speculation ……..I love it when “a person familiar with the organization’s thinking” is quoted. Who are these people?
sj44-
I think that maybe cash money has been reading my criticisms of him on the blog and has taken them to heart .
My other theory is that maybe he’s one of those people who learn from their mistakes.
For all the years he had been with the yankees, in 2008 when he wanted to put both Hughes and Kennedy in the rotation he really was a rookie gm in many ways because he hadn’t had that kind of autonomy before.
Perhaps he’s getting that veteran quality that I like. Experience really does matter.
It was clear from watching him in the mlb interview that he’s 100% engaged in the process of building the team for 2010. That’s a quality that’s hard not to like.
He still has to get past wang before I’m ready to soften my views any further though.
i’m hoping he just release him simply because i really don’t think he or his coaches understand wang.
if wang goes to a team like the cardinals who push the sinker, he’s probably right back where he was or close to it. sometimes players just don’t match up with an approach that a team has.
i think that’s the case with wang and the yankees.
…but that’s an issue for another day. i’m happy with granderson and the thinking cashman is doing with the pitching staff.
i especially liked his open mindedness and flexible approach about joba and hughes being trained as starters , but ready to go to the bullpen if necessary.
I think Boras’ rather defensive statements today regarding the #2 spot in the Yankees lineup points to Damon’s returning.
“Say No to old steroid man Cameron. And no to Glaus(steroid user) and Ryan Church the racist.”
lol
Boras really is desperate, given that quote/shot he took at Granderson…….I only want Daman back for 1 year, at most 1 with a team option for another.
GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
I’d be more inclined to resign Matsui and let Cabrera take over in left field. His numbers should continue to climb to closer to .285, 17-20 homers, 75-80 RBI. At Yankee Stadium, I’d prefer his arm in the bigger left field. There’s a better chance of him progressing than Cameron staying no worse than he was this year, and they both had similar numbers.
———————————————-
they then would need to get a corner OFer
In reference to all the people who use advanced statistics are nerds who do not watch baseball:
No one on this message board is qualified to be a scout. If they were, they would be employed by a MLB team instead of spending time at work or school posting on a newspaper blog.
Therefore, it is the height of arrogance to completely disregard advanced statistics solely in favor of your “eyes.” Again, no ones eyes on this board are even close to being a completely reliable form of analysis. IDK how any on a message board can say “advanced statistics are garbage. I watch all the games and know what I am talking about.” You are a fan, not a scout and it is completely arrogant to try to think you can do a scouts job. That is like saying someone with an Associates Degree in Economics can perform open heart surgery because they watch the Discovery Channel all the time.
Finally, advanced statistics are not 100% reliable and should be use according to your baseball knowledge/scouting ability. I can hardly consider myself a scout in any fashion so I rely heavily on statistics. I watch the game and I look up on the internet whether my perceptions are correct. If the statistics say a different thing then my eyes, you better believe I am going to trust those statistics over myself on the couch with a few beers in me. Other people like CB for example can probably get by relying less on advanced statistics.
However, to completely disregard them is an absolute insult to anyone who has worked for years to break into baseball as a scout or general manager.
Andy will join Wfan soon to talk to sweeny
CB,
That’s a great point. The value from the Yankees side is maximized if Granderson is the Yankees centerfielder, not leftfielder.
While the Yankees have some leverage with Damon now, they still need more pop from the LF spot than Melky Cabrera could provide.
Damon of course is the optimal solution – for no more than 2 years.
joeman
December 9th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
I’d be more inclined to resign Matsui and let Cabrera take over in left field. His numbers should continue to climb to closer to .285, 17-20 homers, 75-80 RBI. At Yankee Stadium, I’d prefer his arm in the bigger left field. There’s a better chance of him progressing than Cameron staying no worse than he was this year, and they both had similar numbers.
———————————————-
they then would need to get a corner OFer
————————————————————
Cabrera IS a corner outfielder.
Pat M-
You didn’t ask me, but Cameron was the better player in 2009.
For 2010, I guess it depends on how you expect Melky to develop. If you think his improvement in 2009 over 2008 indicates he’s due for another big step forward in 2010, then maybe you argue for Melky.
Cameron’s less of a risk – what you saw in 2009 is likely to be what you will get in 2010.
For me, I’m not convinced that Melky will take that next big step up. The Yank’s got a great deal with CG – I’d like to see them solidify that advantage by getting a high quality, dependable guy like Cameron who kills LHP, rather than go with what I see as a risk in Melky, even if Cameron’s not going to be a bargain.
I like Melky as a fourth OF, and playing against tough lefties instead of Granderson. An OPS vs lefties of .484, which is what CG did last year, is just to Jose Molina-like for my comfort. Melky’s no great shakes against lefties, but he’s better than CG was last year.
My guess is the Yanks, having acquired CG, have checked off the CF box. But I’m worried, by July, we are going to be tired of seeing CG hit against lefties. I sure hope I’m wrong, though.
The yankees have articulated that pitching was their priority and that was a real need given that they only had two veteran starters. We did know however Andy would come back in all likelihood and now he is.
I posted about this before – but a central need for the yankees this off season was to improve the offense. Yes they had the best offense in baseball last year but it was a magical year where so much went right, especially with the older players.
The team just could not depend on the older players doing that again. That’s why simply bringing back damon and matsui wouldn’t have been enough – too much aggregate risk.
By trading for Gradnerson the yankees have taken a big step forward in terms of revitalizing the offense.
To complete that however they need to move forward and acquire a left fielder and DH.
By signing Gradnerson it makes it much more feasible to bring back Damon and Matsui should they chose. Granderson’s youth and athleticism is a hedge against Damon and Matsui’s age/ health.
Randy,
The Yankees approach with Aceves, Hughes and Chamberlain (go into ST trained as starters but, can go to the bullpen if needed) is precisely the way to handle these guys.
I hate the hard and fast “He’s a starter/He’s a relief pitcher” attitude some have toward these guys.
The fact is, some guys are better suited to the bullpen and vice versa. The key is to be flexible in your thinking.
Personally, I’d love to see the Yankees sign Damon, have him spend half his time at DH and the other half in LF (with Melky playing LF the rest of the time), and call it a day re: the offense.
At that point, I’d look into Ben Sheets before re-engaging on Halladay.
If the Yankees can sign Sheets to a Harden-like deal, and his medicals are ok, that’s a steal.
You put him in the rotation with Hughes. You put Joba in the pen, and you have the makings of a dynamic team in 2010.
You would have guys like Gaudin, Mitre, Aceves and Ivan Nova (folks shouldn’t sleep on him) as backup starters.
That’s 9 starters going into ST. The proper depth to start the year.
You also have enough guys on short term deals to keep you in the mix for the bounty FA class of next year.
To top it off, you keep all of your young assets: Hughes, Chamberlain, Montero, Romine, etc.
In the end, that may be the best way the Yankees go to fill out the rest of the roster.
joeman
December 9th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
I’d be more inclined to resign Matsui and let Cabrera take over in left field. His numbers should continue to climb to closer to .285, 17-20 homers, 75-80 RBI. At Yankee Stadium, I’d prefer his arm in the bigger left field. There’s a better chance of him progressing than Cameron staying no worse than he was this year, and they both had similar numbers.
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they then would need to get a corner OFer
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Cabrera IS a corner outfielder.
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a 4th OFer
let’s go yankees, I couldn’t afford to be a scout…Trust me, this I know first hand…..
I know the Yankees have a budget to work within, even if that is higher than other teams, there is a limit… somewhere…
That aside, I was thinking of the DH role and how that really looks weak with rotating guys through that spot. I understand how you don’t really like losing a bat when you can give them a “half day off”. The trouble I see is the case that Alex had this year. He needed the day off. In some cases coupled with a schedule off day, that preserved him big, and I think it made the difference in his hitting. With that, why wouldn’t any player benefit from having a complete day off?
There was a manager I heard once that told the player who had off to go sit in the stands and watch the game as a fan. (I don’t remember which manager it was) I thought wow, what a great idea. Totally give the guy off, and it gives them the refreshed knowledge of why they play the game.
That said, I looked again at Hideki as DH. He is well respected and he brings in marketing value from Japan that won’t be matched with him playing for another team. Its estimated that he brings in about 15 million. If the Yankees sign him for 10 million that additional 5 pays for any payroll tax on his salary. It means he really doesn’t give added cost to the team before he even swings his bat.
The Yankees are huge in Japan. Part of that is Hideki. He also brings in a lot of Japanese fans to the stadium. I know his knees limit him, but so did Mantle’s and yet the Yankees didn’t throw away the Mick early.
I would really like Godzilla back.
“That is like saying someone with an Associates Degree in Economics can perform open heart surgery because they watch the Discovery Channel all the time.”
So what’s your opinion about people with no formal training in statistical methods trying to engage in “advanced statistics.”
For example, what would you think of a former professional poker player/ computer programmer attempting to do “advanced statistical analysis?” And what if people said that person really needed to be heeded because he was a “statistician”?
package Joba,Gardner & Bruney and see what they would bring back
Pat M,
My feeling about Cameron is that he isn’t a great offensive force but he consistently hits .250 with a respectable OBP and 20 HR. And the thing that makes him such a valuable player, in my eyes, is his defense.
Mike Cameron is consistently a very good fielding center fielder which along with the above average bat is very rare.
Personally, I’d want to sign him and put him in CF and shift Granderson over to LF (a position he is more suited for).
I think it would be a good move because we know he would take a short-term deal, we know he will have a pretty good season at the plate and we know he will be a great defender in CF.
Other than stolen bases, Cabrera has put up better numbers in his career than Cameron did at the same age. Cameron didn’t become Cameron until he was 26. Cabrera’s a year away from that.
Just saw the Cashman interview on MLB network. Love hearing him say Pitching .
SJ, I also say Ben Sheets could be the signing this offseason…..If they do indeed re-sign Damon, I have concerns about the 5 hole and protection for Alex….
SJ44
Have you seen Nova pitch?
I saw him in Portland this yr. He seemed to have a very good curve and change. Really kept hitters of balance.
One outing isn’t much of a sample, so I’m curious if you’ve seen him more than that.
The yankees shouldn’t have a “rotating” DH spot. They should sign a bat to put there.
With Granderson in the fold there is less of a barrier to bringing Matsui back.
if Andre Dawson doesn’t make the HOF this year, Cooperstown should be burned to the ground
There is no way that the Yankees just gave up their best CF prospect in 15 years for Granderson to turn around and acquire somebody else to play CF while moving Curtis to LF.
GB7-
That’s one way of looking at it.
On the other hand, you could also say that Cameron blossomed in his third full major league season, while Melky has already had four full seasons and not yet had an OPS+ over 100 (last year was close, I admit).
joeman
December 9th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
package Joba,Gardner & Bruney and see what they would bring back
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Who should the Yankees trade to Washington to get Bruney back?
GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
I’d be more inclined to resign Matsui and let Cabrera take over in left field. His numbers should continue to climb to closer to .285, 17-20 homers, 75-80 RBI.
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If Melky did that, he would be one of the best CF in baseball and that is way too optimistic.
Andre Dawson
Lee Smith
Tim Raines
all have the numbers. And all completely dominated the game at their respective positions, in their era
How are the Red Sox going to get a catching prospect Max Ramirez from the Rangers for Mike Lowell???????????????????????????????????
Does anybody understand this???????
Unless the Sox pay his entire 12 million dollar exorbitant salary, then this is absolutely insane.
What about Billy Martin ??? 2 World Series championships
and one of the great baseball minds ever.
I’m sooo ticked he’s not in.
One thing I do miss about the “Anti A-Rod” was his posting of press conference audios.
Any chance you can do that stuff again Chad? Especially when Curtis takes a conference call with the writers.
New post
The Rangers already have an All-Star 3rd baseman. Where would they play Lowell?
I saw Nova pitch 4 times last year. I was really impressed with how much he improved.
I think he could be a guy that’s in the mix for a back end rotation role by mid-season.
I think his emergence made it easier for them to trade Kennedy.
Just for the record, I’d be pretty happy if the Yanks just re-signed Damon and Matsui and went into the season as is.
We’d be better than we were last year, and we were pretty good last year.
CB,
Who would like to see as the DH, if not Matsui?
I think the Yankees could go a number of routes in short-term deals – Vlad, Thome, even Nick Johnson.
That trade makes no sense. The Rangers moved Michael Young to third last year. They can’t move Young to 2nd, Kinsler is there. Would Lowell play first? DH? If he was to DH for 12M, why not just sign Matsui, Thome, or Vlad w/o giving up anything?
Cameron was also allowed to mature in the minors for 6 years. Cabrera was rushed after 3 years.
“Cameron was also allowed to mature in the minors for 6 years. Cabrera was rushed after 3 years.”
The real question is, do you really believe Melky is about to take off? In my heart, I don’t. I’d be delighted to be wrong, however.
If Melky did that, he would be one of the best CF in baseball and that is way too optimistic.
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GreenBeret7 specifically said LF, not CF though.
I could see Melky possibly improving to around those numbers, or fairly close. I don’t see where the numbers were that optimistic. The thing with Melky is that his fielding in center is decent, but not outstanding. Granderson is way better at fielding center.
Melky in Left with those numbers seems pretty acceptable to me, and his fielding would be more in line with that position.
I don’t see Vlad being worth signing as DH. He runs slower than Posada and Matsui. Worse, I think Matsui or Posada could be carrying Gardner on their backs and run faster than Vlad. That clogs bases.
He also had a number of health problems last year that could keep coming back. His bat isn’t as good as it used to be.
Thome might be a possible DH replacement. Decent bat, even though he is getting older, very well respected. I just don’t see why he would be picked over Matsui though.
“That’s 9 starters going into ST. The proper depth to start the year.”
sj44-
for the first time, i’m not concerned about yankee starter pitching depth.
it really does take that amount of starters(9) to be covered.
i would like a more reliable number two starter, but for the regular season that doesn’t matter as much as it does in the postseason.
i think signing damon is also more about the post season too. they obviously could still get there without him, but how can anyone not like his presence in crunch time in the post season.
i don’t think the yankees will sign damon simply because he’s going to make it hard for them to do so by looking for to many dollars and years.
if i were him i’d take an approach that maybe winning another couple of world series as a yankee just might get him into the hall of fame if he’s close to 3000 hits. if he ends up with 2850 hits with some team that doesn’t play in the postseason, i’m not sure how that helps him.
there must be a monetary value to being in the hall of fame. damon might make more in the long run by taking less now but being a yankee for the next few years.