Pettitte signing is official
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 09, 2009 
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Sorry this is a bit late. The beat writers spent the past hour and a half at an official lunch with some of the Yankees front office people. It’s actually a lunch with all of the major league manager’s, but Joe Girardi couldn’t make it because of an illness in his family, so the Yankees writers ate with Billy Eppler and Damon Oppenheimer.
Here’s the official release on the Andy Pettitte signing.
The New York Yankees announced today they have signed left-handed pitcher Andy Pettitte to a one-year contract.
Pettitte, 37, was 14-8 with a 4.16 ERA in 32 starts with the Yankees in 2009 (194.2IP, 193H, 101R, 90ER, 76BB, 148K, 20HR), winning his fifth World Championship with the organization (also 1996, ‘98-2000). The Yankees were 21-11 in his starts.
He went 4-0 with a 3.52 ERA (30.2IP, 12ER) in five postseason starts with the Yankees in 2009, becoming the first pitcher ever to start and win all three clinching games in a single postseason (ALDS, ALCS and World Series). Along with David Wells (1998), became just the second Yankee to record four wins in a single postseason. Pettitte is 18-9 with a 3.90 ERA in 40 career postseason starts, recording the most wins, starts and innings pitched among Major League pitchers all time in postseason play. His six postseason clinching game wins are also the most all time.
Originally selected by the Yankees in the 22nd round of the 1990 First-Year Player Draft, Pettitte is 192-109 with a 4.02 ERA in 12 overall seasons with the club (1995-2003, 2007-09). He ranks third in franchise history in wins, strikeouts (1,772) and games started (375), sixth in innings pitched (2406.2) and eighth in appearances (384). According to the Elias Sports Bureau, his win total is the highest for any pitcher with his current club.
Twice named an American League All-Star (1996 and 2001), Pettitte owns a 229-135 career record with a 3.91 ERA. Among Major League pitchers since 1995 when he debuted, he has recorded the most wins, the second-most innings pitched (2926.1) and the seventh-most strikeouts (2,150). Pettitte has posted a winning percentage of .500-or-better and made at least 15 starts in each of his 15 Major League campaigns, matching Cy Young (15 seasons, 1890-1904) and Tom Seaver (15 seasons, 1967-81) for the longest such stretch to start a Major League career (credit: Elias). In addition, Pettitte played for the Houston Astros from 2004-06, where he compiled a 37-26 record with a 3.38 ERA. He is a two-time 20-game winner, notching 21 victories in 1996 and 2003.
In the last decade (2000-09), Pettitte led the Majors in wins (148), ranked ninth in games started (300) and 10th in strikeouts (1,441). He ranks fourth among active left-handed pitchers with 229 career wins.
Good old Andy.
How much he get? Is it really the 11.75mil….cause that’s a lot for an old 4ERA guy…even if we love him to bits.
Great to have Andy back.
maybe Sheets or Harden next .
Andy building up that HOF-like resume. Will be discussed to death in due time, and deservedly so. I could see him wanting to push for 250 wins.
Awesome !
That’s quite a resume by Today’s standards! I find it easy to forget that Andy has been a gamer and quite durable, despite the occasional ache and pain, over a long time period.
Peter R, the old 4ERA guy had three clinching games in the post season that he won. He took a deal that was tougher on him for the sake of the club last year. They weren’t going to lowball him this go around.
This is partial payback from last season. A great signing.
Would love to see Moose and Andy in the HOF some day.
Ahhhhh he’s a bum…not even worth $11.00 much less millions. We should have gone after Pavano and promoted Igawa.
**CUE SARCASM**
Glad to see you back Andy!
Being that it is generally thought that there will be very few, if any, 300 games winners anymore, his resume is looking even better.
a Hall of Fame career, even if many say he is not a Hall of Famer.
His post seasons alone qualify him imo.
I was against bringing him back last year,st the 12mm he wanted, I was wrong. Glad he is back for 2010.
Go Cash, Go!!!
I think Andy is one of those quiet warrior types. He will take the ball even when hurt if it can help the team. He took a big bullet for the team back in 08 pitching hurt down the stretch when they had no one else to do it.
Pete Abe blocked out the proper spelling and reference to wwww noo maaas .org due to the dispute he had with that yankee fan website, how sad
Andy’s probably not gonna make the HoF.
Welcome back, Andy!!! Awesome news, as it should be!!!
Something will happen today!
Cash will make another TRade today! He will definatly trade the Nr.1 rule 5 Trade!
Who will we get???
Who will leave?
Trivia question – Andy is currently 1st in Yankees wins (192) for active pitchers. Who is second with 71? (Note- He does not need to be a Yankee now but is an active pitcher. The wins are when he was/is a Yankee).
Wow I’m bummed I missed the Keith Law argument in the last thread, he is one of the best analysts around and one of the smartest guys in baseball.
I have no problem with his comments about the Yanks and a possible Doc trade. He simply said that some other teams in baseball could put together a better package than the Yankees. That’s simply a comment on the strength of the Yankees farm system and we all know that our system isn’t #1. It’s probably in the top third but it’s not the best.
To be quite frank there are probably 7-10 teams (not 4-5) that could put together a better package for Halladay than the Yankees could.
That’s not to say those teams want to spend so much on him and it’s certainly not saying Halladay would accept a trade to those teams. It’s just a comment on the quality of prospects each team has.
“He took a deal that was tougher on him for the sake of the club last year.”
No he didn’t. He took the best deal he thought he could get to play where he wanted. Andy loves money.
“This is partial payback from last season.”
No it isn’t. We gave him the least amount we thought we could to get the guy we wanted locked up. The Steinbrenners also love money.
I checked NESN.com I love how they are trying to put a negative spin on the yankees getting granderson.
http://www.nesn.com/2009/12/pa.....sox-3.html
“Detroit manager Jim Leyland is speaking with the media and was asked about Curtis Granderson. His analysis couldn’t be more glowing.
“He’s everything that’s right with baseball,” Leyland said, later adding, “He’s the complete package.”
Leyland said that he thought Granderson’s numbers against left-handers (.183 last season) was a result of the emergence of some qualities southpaws in the American League, the likes of which the Tigers saw multitudes of down the stretch.
The Tigers’ manager also classified Granderson as a “very good” outfielder with a pretty good arm.”
http://fullcount.weei.com/spor.....randerson/
El Duque?
I’m a lot more willing to take a chance on Sheets or Harden now. Three solid starters, Joba, Hughes and one of the injury twins and we’re good to go.
Great to see Andy back!
Andy ended up being a bargain for the Yanks this year. He more than earned this raise for 2010!
Chad, hope lunch was good
Thanks for the frequent updates from Indy – you’re doing a fantastic job keeping us informed throughout the day (and night)!!!
Phil,
Nice guess! But El Duque is 3rd with 61 Yankees wins.
Why are people clamoring for Sheets or Harden when we already have Wang under control? Isn’t it basically the same thing?
It’s Mo, then and you added a lot of BS to the question.
Sheets will be ready to start the season. Harden probably will. Wang will not.
Mariano Rivera?
Simon -
Doubt Wang is coming back. Yes he won 19 games twice . but he’s also pitched some of the worse baseball ever. Plus he’s not in the same league talent wise as Sheets or Harden
If NYY has any designs on acquiring Halladay (only with an extension), I’d pull Montero, Romine, Banuelos and Laird from the list and let Toronto take any 5 minor leaguers they want that’s eligible to be traded. If they take Chamberlain, NYY pulls 3 more from the list and let Toronto gets any three minor leaguers. Keep in mind, players signed less than one year ago can’t be traded. They’re not likely to get more than that from another team. That could be 4 or 5 first round picks.
Hehe, yup it’s Mariano. Yeah, I wanted to make sure the question wasn’t misinterpreted, but probably made it more confusing.
Wang is 4th with 55, btw.
Sheets and Harden will be ready to go in ST. Wang will not. His agent says Wang will be ready to pitch in May, which probably means June or July in reality. Still, I would like to see them bring back Wang as late season insurance, and if he is back to his old self, for the rotation in 2011.
Mariano!?
Loving the off season so far
Welcome back, Andy!!
Answer gotta be Rivera…I think
oh sorry stopped looking at other guesses.
Mr. Rivera
I would also let them select Pena and or Cervelli in the Halladay deal.
El Duque is still pitching?
Jeremy,
I do have to agree with the NESN article, it was the right thing for Boston to pass on Granderson. We didn’t give up a ML contributor, they would have had to give up their number 4 starter and their CF just to get a CF.
If that is true, we got a bargain compared to what Detroit asked from Boston. Quite the opposite of what we are used to seeing.
Orioles are close to acquiring Millwood from Texas.
Sox picked up another reliever named Ramon Ramirez.
kenny rogers
kenny rogers
BEST SINGLE-SEASON TEAM: 2009 Yankees
This shocked me: The 2009 Yankees were the only team in the decade to win 100 regular-season games and the World Series. In fact, the last three teams to win 100 and the World Series are: 1. the 2009 Yankees; 2. the 1998 Yankees; and 3. the 1986 Mets. So you have to go back 25 years to find a team outside of New York that won 100 and a World Series — that would be the 1984 Tigers.
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....z0ZDmu9p6J
What’s interesting is the Blue Jays either have to trade Doc now or the market is going to dry up.
Teams like the Yanks, Red Sox and Angels will sign free agent pitchers like Lackey, Sheets, Harden, Bedard etc…if the Blue Jays wait too long right now, some of the shops that can handle Doc’s 16 million salary are going to close up.
It’s kind of now or never.
I can’t stress enough if the Yankees somehow make a deal for Doc, the players they send to Toronto are players the Yankees don’t believe in for whatever reason.
Cashman is the proponent of not paying twice for a one year rental player so if he deal for Doc, it’s because the players he’s sending to Toronto are not in the Yankees long term plans.
That said, I’m a big proponent of signing Sheets if his medicals check out and keeping the prospects.
If we don’t trade for Doc, I think he will make it to free agency and we’ll get him then and only have to give up a late first round pick for him.
I can hear Michael Kay’s annoying gravely voice say Andrew Eugene Pettitte !
At the current pace Mo will get to 300 wins when he’s about 90.
Sine it’s Mo, lets not rule it out
http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/xqMgd
Active Pitchers – most wins with Yanks…
1984 Detroit Tigers.
Relief pitcher Willie Hernandez has 32 saves and wins BOTH the Cy Young and MVP. I don’t think we’ll see that again. Probably shouldn’t have seen it in 1984 either.
El Duque tried a comeback with the Rangers in AAA but didn´t make it!
Just think, if Andy had not gone to Houston, he likely would break Whitey Ford’s Yankee record of 237 career wins this season. That detour to Houston probably killed his chances of a monument and a retired #46.
So Cash wasn’t at the lunch? Interesting.
My answer to the trivia question was going to be Pavano.
if the Angels trade Halladay but lose Figgins and Lackey have they really improved themselves dramatically?
Curtis Granderson’s numbers vs. lefties will immediately improve now that he doesn’t have to face 3-time Warren Spahn Award winner CC Sabathia or gritty, gutty Andy Pettitte.
“I checked NESN.com I love how they are trying to put a negative spin on the yankees getting granderson.”
I truly believe that some people look for anything to criticize.
Everything the guy said is true in the article. It wouldn’t have been the right move for the Red Sox.
Swapping either one of their starting pitchers for Granderson or their starting CF for Granderson wouldn’t have improved them at all.
Also, why are so many people so interested in what Boston scribes say? If you only want a pollyana spin on everything Yankees then stick to Yankee stuff. The Boston media isn’t their to appease Yankee fans. Sorry.
“BEST SINGLE-SEASON TEAM: 2009 Yankees
This shocked me: The 2009 Yankees were the only team in the decade to win 100 regular-season games and the World Series. In fact, the last three teams to win 100 and the World Series are: 1. the 2009 Yankees; 2. the 1998 Yankees; and 3. the 1986 Mets. So you have to go back 25 years to find a team outside of New York that won 100 and a World Series — that would be the 1984 Tigers.”
Now THAT’S surprising.
Just catching up-Good few days for the Yankeees so far. Glad Andy is coming back.
With a repeat of last year, Pettitte will be closing in on 250 wins (243). It will be interesting if he reaches that and stays healthy and effective, to see if he makes a run to 300.
BloggingBombers Leyland: “I’m a little frustrated right now, because you guys are asking about players I used to have and not about anybody I’ve got.”
half a minute ago from web
how do we know Cash wasn’t at lunch ? lol wierd
So Keith Law is trying to convince Doc to re-sign with a team that isn’t going to be a WS contender for at least a few years?
SJ, do you know Doc at all? Do you believe that he meant what he said when he said he wouldn’t accept a trade after ST? I suspect he’s a man of his word…also, per Richard Griffiths (Toronto Star), Doc felt unwanted and disrespected by the whole process last year. Now, Ricciardi is gone, so I don’t know if that makes a difference.
If he wants to test the FA waters, then he’ll stay for the year and that’s ok. However, you’ve then got a LOT of teams in play for him next year : Phillies (not sure he wants to go to the NL and hit), Sox, Angels, Yankees, M’s (they apparently have $$$ now)..Mets maybe. The Yankees are no sure thing to get him signed; no one really knows where he wants to go.
21-11 in his starts… a repeat of that is all that I ask from him..
Didn’t the six also try to aquire Granderson, sore losers as usual..
I am feeling better about the Grandeson trade:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....-big-trade
Plus, he is a much better against LHP away from Comerica.
Am I missing something, Chip? When did Cashman ever say that signing Andy precludes any pursuit of Doc? They knew they were getting Andy back before they had their meetings. Why would they even bother letting it be known (to Heyman, for one) that they were going to pursue him if signing Andy put any kibbosh on that?
It’s funny that press release unnecessarily specifies that Pettitte is fourth among active “lefthanded” pitchers in wins, because there are no righthanded active pitchers ahead of him. And of the “active” pitchers with more wins than AP, Glavine didn’t pitch in the majors this year, Randy Johnson has torn labrum, and Jamie Moyer finished the season on the DL with a torn groin.
anyone worried that the Granderson deal has not been finalized?
“When did Cashman ever say that signing Andy precludes any pursuit of Doc? ”
Supposedly that’s what he told Francesa, but no one thought we were on in Teix last year.
“anyone worried that the Granderson deal has not been finalized?”
No, that’s a lot of physicals of some players with injury histories.
interesting posts by ken rosenthal:
wolf to brewers for around 30mil for 3 years. the guy had an awesome season, seems to me like pitchers’ market is correcting downwards.
o’s trading for milwood. why? clearly the o’s need a 5-year plan at least, as they are not going to contend any tine soon. why trade for an aging veteran. i don’t get it.
Rich in NJ,
He had 2 HRs, 9 RBIs, and 33 hits all year (180 ABs) against LH pitching. There was no much better to be had.
I don’t believe Francesa. One has nothing to do with the other.
Especially since the Yankees are still engaged in talks with Toronto, even if they are on the periphery.
raymatic, Yes I hear you, but living up in WEEI/NESN land I can tell you that they are in anti-Yankee spin mode 90% of the time.
I knew Andy’s been solid for a long time, but man, those are some numbers!
Mark in Tampa
The artice was right that what the Tigers were asking was crazy. But what’s the point in even writing the article since that’s common knowledge.
Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench)
December 9th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
anyone worried that the Granderson deal has not been finalized?
———————————————————–
Yes. I can’t remember closure to a deal at the WM taking this long. But I probably never paid too much attention.
Noreaster,
They should be in anti-Yankee spin mode. I’d expect nothing more from them.
Could you imagine the backlash from the fans if they weren’t in anti-Yankee spin mode?
Can you imagine a snag in the deal? Kennedy’s annurysm? Zona’s pitchers?
Mark in Tampa
This was posted elsewhere so I can’t take credit for it, but:
According to Baseball Musings day by day database, here are his career splits vs LHP:
Home: AB 301 .179/.231/.259
Road: AB 318 .239/.306/.425
I think the O’s will contend a lot faster than anyone thinks
They have a very good young core, a few more pieces and they could be close to the playoffs. Maybe not this year but definitely in 2011.
Betsy,
If Doc makes it to free agency, he’s a Yankee. You can put it in the books.
No other team will pay a 33yo starter what the Yankees will.
The Yankees will, most likely, have to replace Pettitte next off season and they will know for sure whether Joba/Phil are long term solutions as starters since this is a make or break year for both of them in many respects.
You can count on one hand the number of teams that will pay a 33yo 20 million a year. In fact, you can probably count on one finger what team would give him that kind of money.
The Yankees.
Every other team is scared to death to spend that much on a pitcher his age. That’s part of the reason why he hasn’t been traded.
And if he goes to Anaheim or Philly big deal. It won’t hurt the Yankees.
The Yankees will face him less than they usually do in those 2 cities.
If he goes to Boston it gets a little trickier, but Boston still has to rebuild their offense. If they traded for Doc they would be hoping to win a lot of 3-2, 4-3 type games because the offense isn’t the same it was with Manny and Ortiz together in their prime.
I’d rather see him pitch one more year in Toronto and come here as a free agent unless the price to trade for him in prospects is something that the Yankees don’t even wince at.
ESPN says they are looking into IPKs anurysm BUT that the deal will be done.
If the Yanks get Halladay, IMO they won’t sign another significant hitter.
Here’s why:
The Yanks spent about $215MM last year (including Andy’s incetives, Igawa, Brackman and Miranda, and Giambi, but not including Hinske, Hairston or Gaudin). (All $$ are from Cot’s)
Right now, 12 Yankees are on board for 2010 with fixed 2010 salaries, adding up to $187.5MM (including $$ due Igawa, Brackman and Miranda). Barring a trade, another 6 (Melky, BG, Hughes, Joba, Robertson and Aceves) will be on the team for somewhere around $4.2MM when all is said and done. The Yanks will probably carry a minimum salary backup catcher and middle infielder, another .8MM. That adds up to $192.5MM for 20 guys, with 2 hitters and 3 pitchers to get.
If you add Gaudin, figure another $2.5MM, totalling $195MM.
If Halladay were to be acquired for Hughes or Joba, that’s a minimum increase of $15.25MM (Halladay’s current 2010 salary, less Joba’s or Hughes’ projected 2010 salary.)
That means a minimum payroll of about $208MM, or $210MM with Gaudin (and if an extension is worked out with Halladay, you are looking at probably $215-$217MM), and we still need 2 hitters and either 2 or 3 more pitchers.
In that environment, they aren’t signing Damon, or Matsui, or anyone else which will cost significant $$, IMO.
So, for the difference between Halladay and Joba (or Hughes), we would be giving up Damon’s, Matsui’s or [add your favorite player here].
Not worth it, IMO, and I don’t think the Yanks will think it’s worth it either.
“If Doc makes it to free agency, he’s a Yankee. You can put it in the books.”
As long as they don’t add anymore multi-year contracts this offseason, I agree. If not, it will be impossible to sign Halladay without payroll going over the $200m unless they trade a significant contract.
“I think the O’s will contend a lot faster than anyone thinks
They have a very good young core, a few more pieces and they could be close to the playoffs. Maybe not this year but definitely in 2011.”
IMO, they aren’t getting enough wins against Boston, NYY and Rays to contend, and besides, where are they going to get a competitive pitching staff in the next two years?
If Granderson starts hitting lefties, he could be as good as any other CF in the game. If he doesn’t, the Yankees still get amazing production from CF by platooning him with a guy that can hit lefties.
Not sure if I’d like him batting early in the lineup if he can’t hit lefties though.
Raymatic, Yes, I know. They have to sell into their market, but they say the most absurd things. As an aside, I always wear my colors on the weekend and people I’ve never met start giving me grief. Now, they almost fall over themselves not making eye contact with me!
Noreaster
I grew up in C.T. so like you I always would hear the negativity about the yankees. Thoguh I lived in a part of C.T. that was divided between Sox and Yanks.
I actually laugh because it’s so funny that they pay so much attention to everything the yankees do.
“I think the O’s will contend a lot faster than anyone thinks”
Oh Gawd, here come the cougars chasing after nick markakis
Wave, good take on the payroll situation. The Yanks have no problem spending a crapload of money but they aren’t going to go up to $220+ million again.
They also aren’t going to start the season with Melky Cabrera in LF and Juan Miranda at DH.
My hope is that the Yanks go after either Damon or Cameron and either Matsui or Johnson. Stick Damon/Cameron at LF, Matsui/Johnson at DH and Melky fits into his natural role as a 4th outfielder. After that I want the Yanks to pick up one of Wang/Sheets/Harden to an incentive laden deal. That way you have backup in case one of Hughes/Joba fails.
I would start the season with a rotation of Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte, Hughes, Chamberlain.
Pettite deserves to be a bit overpaid after what he did in the postseason and how he solidifies the rotation significantly.
Wave,
I agree with one caveat. If Cashman gets a waiver from Hal to go over budget (as he did with Teixeira) it can happen.
I don’t believe they would acquire Halladay without making sure they added the one hitter they are short right now.
In fact, I think they will add a hitter before even talking in depth about Halladay.
As it stands right now, its looking more and more like Halladay is headed to ST as a Blue Jay.
Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench)
December 9th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
ESPN says they are looking into IPKs anurysm BUT that the deal will be done.
*******************
Good stuff
“The Yanks spent about $215MM last year (including Andy’s incetives, Igawa, Brackman and Miranda, and Giambi, but not including Hinske, Hairston or Gaudin). (All $$ are from Cot’s)”
Don’t forget CC’s and Teix’s signing bonuses of 9 million and and 5 million….
“Oh Gawd, here come the cougars chasing after nick markakis”
Hey, I resemble that remark.
Jeremy,
When I was growing up, my dad got tranferred to Hartford for a year, so we lived near there, in a town called Marlborough. Every one of the people there were sox fans, but it turned out great-that was summer and fall of 1978!
“Don’t forget CC’s and Teix’s signing bonuses of 9 million and and 5 million….”
That’s already added into the 215
GreenBeret7
December 9th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
My answer to the trivia question was going to be Pavano.
——————————————-
You must be on some strong pain meds.
Hope your test go well. I was in last winter for a procedure and thought the head nurse had served with you. She and I didn’t get along. Might have been cause I’m not good at being told what to do.
I have to go for periodic check ups and one was yesterday. Got a good report so that was good.
I again hope things go well for you and I’m sure the nurses will be glad to see you go.
See if they can lube that rusty trap while there.
“Oh Gawd, here come the cougars chasing after nick markakis”
What does me saying the Orioles will contend within the next few years have anything to do with cougars being attracted to Markakis? That was a big whiff of a joke my friend
The thing is, thinking about the Yanks’ off-season moves is fun this year.
The Yanks are really good as it stands, and there are a number of ways they can go to be even better.
Last year, the Yanks needed to get Tex. It was nerve-wracking (at least to me) wondering if they would realize it. We don’t “need” to get anyone in particular this year.
“So, for the difference between Halladay and Joba (or Hughes), we would be giving up Damon’s, Matsui’s or [add your favorite player here].
Not worth it, IMO, and I don’t think the Yanks will think it’s worth it either.”
You’d rather have Matsui or Damon than Halladay?
Seriously?
CC, AJ and Andy. One of Joba/Hughes needs to step up as a starter. I think Hughes will. Joba needs to come to spring training in shape and not be a hard head. I still prefer Joba in the pen but the yankees will give him a good look as a SP.
Interesting to see what Cashman will do regarding another SP.
Jermey, Yep…It’s all about the Sox and anti Yankee up here. I love listening to WEEI after a major loss. It is just dawning on people up here that the Sox are not going to address their number 1 problem in the offseason, their inability to score runs on the road. They are stuck with Lowell, Drew, Ortiz and Pedroia, Ellsbery have no power outside of the Fens.
“anyone worried that the Granderson deal has not been finalized?”
Hey, where is Al from BK?
Nothing to indicate that these meetings will finish with a flair. It shows that most teams are sticking to budgets until the economy shows an upswing. Combine that with a poor free agency market and it is what it is.
The July 31st trading deadline will offer very little activity unless one player is an absolute difference maker.
As long as they don’t add anymore multi-year contracts this offseason, I agree. If not, it will be impossible to sign Halladay without payroll going over the $200m unless they trade a significant contract.
I think this is part of the reason you’re hearing rumors that they will shop Swisher. It has less to do with this year than it does about clearing his 7 mil off next year’s books.
Let’s just say – for the sake of argument – that the Yankees bring back Damon and Matsui at matching 9 mil contracts for one year and don’t add anyone else. They then deal Swisher for someone making the same salary – again just for the sake of argument we’ll say Rafael Soriano.
Next winter they will have the following off the books:
Mariano – 15 mil
Jeter – 20(ish) mil
Matsui – 9 mil
Damon – 9 mil
Soriano – 7 mil
Andy – 12 mil
That’s around 65 mil off the books.
Now we can assume that about $35 of that is going to Mo and Jeter so that’s 30 mil to spend on Crawford, Werth, Lee, Halladay – vs 23 mil if Swisher is still on the books.
Mark in Tampa
ahh yeah that was a good year. And the “Curse” was still with Red Sox fans. lol !
Oh, o.k. Patrick.
Sorry.
I dont know much about Kevin Correia, but it looks like he wont get a contract from the Giants. Could he be someone to look at? He only made 1.1 million last year and put up decent numbers: 33 starts and a 3.91 ERA, 6.5 K/9, and 2.9 BB/9.
vin
December 9th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/xqMgd
Active Pitchers – most wins with Yanks…
——
is this right? i don’t think all those guys are still active. pretty sure Joe Borowski retired prior to last year
“SI_JonHeyman: #yankees still interested in lackey or halladay. source: #jays requested montero plus joba OR hughes plus more for roy.”
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman
Now we can assume that about $35 of that is going to Mo and Jeter so that’s 30 mil to spend on Crawford, Werth, Lee, Halladay – vs 23 mil if Swisher is still on the books.
And that $7 mil could be the difference between getting Halladay/Lee or Crawford/Werth or getting Halladay/Lee and Crawford/Werth.
I would go for a LF/DH on a one or two year contract (Damon or maybe is Vlad healthy?) and Sheets. Then call it an offseason.
Cano, I looked at Correia also. Decent starter or long-reliever, similar to Gaudin in many respects, though cheaper.
Rich in NJ-
More precisely, I would rather have Damon or Matsui than the difference between Halladay and Chamberlain.
Actually, I’d rather have Cameron and Matsui, which would add up to Halladay’s price, than Halladay. I’d live with the pitching we have-it worked out OK last year.
The Yankees now have over $179 million committed to just 11 guys on the 2011 roster assuming Jeter and Mariano come back ($20M/yr and $15M/yr, respectively). That doesn’t include a LF, a DH, Joba, Hughes, a 5th starter, 5 relievers, and the entire bench.
Noreaster
Yeah. Theo is in a bind right now. Instead of the Red Sox media worrying about Granderson and what the yankees are doing they should worry about the poor Red Sox offense especially on the road.
They got shut down by John Lackey, and Weaver on the road in the ALDS. Not taking anything away from these pitchers because they are good but I watched those games and they made Lackey and Weaver look like Gibson and Seaver.
They need a lot of help.
I think this is part of the reason you’re hearing rumors that they will shop Swisher. It has less to do with this year than it does about clearing his 7 mil off next year’s books.
Exactly, and Cot’s has Swisher at $9m in 2011:
They are at $136m in 2011 w/o Granderson.
That puts them at close to $145m. Add $35m for Jeter/Mo, that’s $180m. Add a few million for raises for the kids, that’s $185m.
They need to clear room for a big FA if they want to stay under $200m.
If the Heyman Twitter post about the Jays requesting Joba & Montero OR Phil and other for Doc are true, we will end up getting him without trading any of those three.
The Tigers started out asking for Hughes and Montero for Granderson and look what we gave up for him.
Cash will talk them down from those names. Have some faith. I think before all is said and done the Blue Jays will take pennies on the dollar for Doc prospect wise to get out of paying him 16 million.
Otherwise they are paying 16 million for the right to draft picks.
Makes no sense for them to keep him.
I see Cash pulling this off without surrendering any of the guys mentioned above.
would like to see them add another SP along with a utility player who can play OF/IN…and clean that LF position
Nick in SF…..Al from BK ( Burger King ) has been gone for awhile now…I did see that Latham Joe suddenly reappeared, and that’s good……Good to see that more of the LoHuders are seeing the benefits that Curtis Granderson will bring to The Bombers……He’s going to explode onto the scene
Amazing to look at that wins by an active pitcher list and already see CC at #5. Tells you a lot about his value and the availability of quality starting pitching in the league!
GLove,
Thinking the same thing. “Requesting” is a whole lot different than “demanding”.
When the Granderson talks started, the Tigers wanted Montero, Hughes, Dunn and one other starter from the Yankees for him.
The final price was CONSIDERABLY less for a guy the Tigers didn’t have to move.
The Jays really have to trade Halladay soon or they get nothing but draft picks for him.
I don’t see the Yankees moving Montero for him. Never did.
Joba? I could see them doing that.
Hughes? No chance.
It may end up being a lot less of nobody else steps up or, if Doc says to the Jays, “Its either the Yankees or nothing” to the Jays.
That’s why I think Cashman will shore up LF/DH in the next 2 weeks and wait out the Halladay talks.
I think Giambi’s $5M buyout cointed towards 2008 payroll, not 2009.
I would make the following five moves:
Sign Sheets/Harden
Sign Ryan Church
Deal Swisher and Ace to Atlanta for Raf Soriano
Sign Troy Glaus to DH (1 year, 6 mil + bonuses related to health)
Pick Chad Tracy OF/C/1b with the first pick of the Rule V draft
Lineup
Jeter, Church, Tex, Alex, Granderson, Posada, Glaus, Cano, Melky
Bench
Tracy, Cervelli, Gardner, Pena
Rotation
CC, AJ, Andy, Sheets, Joba/Hughes
Pen
Joba/Hughes, Robertson, Mo, Marte, Dunn, Gaudin, Melancon
Obviously I goofed and forgot to put Soriano in my projected pen in the above post – swap him for Melancon or Dunn
Boy, I missed a lot this morning.
Welcome back, Andy (even though you never went anywhere).
Just saw Keith Law on tv. He said that even if the Yankees offered up Hughes and montero, he thinks other teams could top that if they wanted to keep Doc from the Bronx.
I like Keith Law, but that’s stretching it. The Yankees would walk away before giving up 2 of their very best young players. Others may have something to top that, but they wouldn’t give it up. And the only team that could possibly have any interest in blocking the Yankees in addition to improving their own team are the Red Sox. Now would they let Buchholz and Kelly go for a quality player like Halladay? I think they would. But they have other areas of concern, too. And the kind of extension that the Cheap Sox would offer would most likely pale compared to what Halladay’s been looking forward to as a potential FA.
And Law is wrong if he thinks that the Sox could top Hughes and montero.
Anyway, maybe he’s just helping out his old front office.
#yankees gm brian cashman scheduled to meet with lackey’s agent steve hilliard in indy soon. yanks also like roy
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman
“I think Giambi’s $5M buyout cointed towards 2008 payroll, not 2009.”
Cot’s has it in 2009.
SJ,
Don’t you think that Toronto has to move Doc before the other free agent pitchers start signing?
I kind of feel like their window is right now otherwise teams will tell them they have no budget space and get back to us in July.
Chip
Why would we deal Swish and Ace for Soriano? The Braves do not even want him because of his salary. We could give them 2 low level prospects to their liking for him.
Chip,
Enough with the Ryan Church’s and Troy Glaus’s of the world.
The Yankees aren’t bringing in washouts. They don’t have to.
They actually want to fill the remaining spots on the roster with guys who can still play. Those two guys can’t.
Would anyone else consider it a victory if we were able to acquire Roy Halladay without giving up Joba or Phil? I think if it costs us Montero and others, I would be ok with it. Keeping Phil and Joba would give us 5 legit starters after Andy retires and we wouldnt have to worry about waiting to see which pitchers reaches FA in the fall of ’10.
M,
I don’t think Law was talking about Boston. He’s right, another team could offer up more than Hughes and Montero to get Halladay. The Angels might think Halladay would put them over the top and offer a deal of Mike Napoli, Joe Saunders, and Brandon Wood for example.
He’s not ripping the Yankee prospects, he’s just saying there are deals that could be created that are better than Hughes and Montero – I would tend to agree.
just read this, speculation about the cubs making a move for Swisher. i don’t know enough about those 2 guys to make a judgement though…
http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....ck-swisher
MaineYankee
December 9th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
GreenBeret7
December 9th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
My answer to the trivia question was going to be Pavano.
——————————————-
You must be on some strong pain meds.
Hope your test go well. I was in last winter for a procedure and thought the head nurse had served with you. She and I didn’t get along. Might have been cause I’m not good at being told what to do.
I have to go for periodic check ups and one was yesterday. Got a good report so that was good.
I again hope things go well for you and I’m sure the nurses will be glad to see you go.
See if they can lube that rusty trap while there.
————————————————————
Thanks for the kind thoughts, Maine. I swear that the head nurse (she’s not what her title sounds like), looks like Cloris Leachmann in “High Anxiety”. I’ve been trying to grow a mustache like that for years.
They haven’t finished all of the tests and are waiting on some to come back. Hopefully, they’ll finish by tomorrow. I’ll spend a day more to get the energy to fly back to Savannah, as long as all is fine.
I would not waste a 30 HR guy and whatever you want to call ace for Soriano. Soriano, like many relievers, has ups and downs. Relievers generally cannot be counted upon year to year.
Given what the Twins got for Santana, and what the Indians got for Lee, how are the Jays going to get Hughes and Montero, or some even better deal from some other team, for Halladay?
Montero and Hughes would be over market, based on the Santana and Lee comps. I don’t see it.
I would put Joba in any trade talks for Doc, but won’t put Montero with him…if joba plus dosen’t get it done so be it
With so many annoying sawx fans in New England, this year / offseason is wonderful Living in New England when the YANKEES ARE THE WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS !
sign lackey & call it a winter
payroll around 205 million & we keep joba,hughes,montero,etc that can be used in the future in a trade if needed
if cash gets the ok to get a lf/dh even better
with a rotation of
cc
lackey
burnett
pettitte
joba
hughes we are great plus have pitching debth & gives us more options for the bullpen
in addition if hughes & or joba take off we are in great shape going forward
Chip
December 9th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
I would make the following five moves:
Sign Sheets/Harden
Sign Ryan Church
Deal Swisher and Ace to Atlanta for Raf Soriano
Sign Troy Glaus to DH (1 year, 6 mil + bonuses related to health)
Pick Chad Tracy OF/C/1b with the first pick of the Rule V draft
Chip,
The Yankees will have no interest in Ryan Church. Will not trade anyone for Soriano, are not interested in Glaus, and have other things to do with that Rule 5 pick.
Please! you’re killing me. First Winn, then DeJesus, now Church and Tracy.
I just explained this about Keith Law.
The Yanks don’t have the #1 farm system in the league. They probably have around the 10-12th best. That means 10 or 11 teams could probably top them in a deal for Halladay, if they wanted to. He didn’t comment on whether or not those teams would WANT to give away that much for Halladay, just that they could.
Chip,
Rafael Soriano is going to make 9 million dollars this year.
The Yankees aren’t paying 9 million for a setup guy. Especially one who can be shaky like Soriano.
GLove,
I don’t know. Here’s the problem the Jays have…..The Red Sox won’t give them what they want so, the Yankees have no incentive to give them anything of value for Roy.
Plus, what we don’t know is what the Yankees know about the situation.
Did AJ tell them Doc really wants to come to NY?
One of the things they had going for them last year with Tex is they KNEW Tex’s first choice was the Yankees because of the recon work they did.
I don’t know if they have the same recon work going on with Halladay.
All I know is, if they lock up LF/DH, and have productive talks with guys like Sheets, Lackey, etc, their zeal for Doc in 2010 dims considerably.
That’s not good news for the Jays.
WYH: I think Cot’s is wrong.
Who do you trust, some random, generally uninformed guy on the internet or this “Cot’s”, if that’s even it’s real name?
Enough with the Ryan Church’s and Troy Glaus’s of the world.
The Yankees aren’t bringing in washouts. They don’t have to.
They actually want to fill the remaining spots on the roster with guys who can still play. Those two guys can’t.
—————————
SJ44
Glaus missed last year because his foot wouldn’t let him field, not because he can’t hit. He’s 31 years old and played 150 games a year ago when he hit .270, .372 OBP, 27 HR, 99 RBI – I would say that’s far from “washed up”
Church can play, he’s at least as good in RF as Swisher, and was off to a great start offensively with the Mets before he got the concussion, then last year he never got any regular playing time.
from Tyler Kepner:
Boras talking to media. Says Damon belongs at top of NYY order and Granderson fits better lower.
Nick, that’s a tough one…but you can’t seem to stay in one place so it’s tough to count on you.
Chip,
I think you’d make a good GM for the Mets though.
The Yankees aren’t paying 9 million for a setup guy. Especially one who can be shaky like Soriano.
They wouldn’t be paying 9 mil for Soriano. If they traded Swisher for him they would be paying 2 mil for Soriano.
As for him being shaky – 100Ks and 27BB in 75 IP – I wish more Yankee relief pitchers were that shaky.
“Wow I’m bummed I missed the Keith Law argument in the last thread, he is one of the best analysts around and one of the smartest guys in baseball.”
patrick -
he has an economics degree from Harvard and a mba from MIT .
i’d say he’s really smart and definitely one of the smartest guys in baseball.
the problem is that what he’s smart in is not necessarily about baseball.
and technically he’s not in baseball. he doesn’t receive a check form any team.
he’s a writer for espn.
so it’d be more accurate to say he’s one of the smartest baseball writers at espn .
… and what was up with that carpenter cy young non vote?
personally i think they should kick him and will carroll back out of the BBWAA.
they were kind of an embarrassment this year.
For Soriano you have to factor in his high salary. He will earn between 6-8 million dollars so that kind of KIND OF hurts his value.
I’d offer Gardner and Miranda.
They need outfielders and Laroche is a free agent.
Wave Your Hat
I think it’s easier to find productive bats than it is to find a pitcher as dominant as Halladay, plus you would be keeping him from a team that you would face in the WS.
bru
we are keeping some guys to develop not trade them all away. That’s what got the yankees in trouble years ago.
But I agree forget Halladay.
The way the Yankees will get Halladay, if they actually do get him, will be to have the market drop for him the way it did on Johan Santana.
As long as other teams that could potentially want Halladay refuse to pay thru the nose in both a trade package and contract extention … and … they go on make alternate trades/FA signings instead, then a team like the Yankees (who can wait patiently on the side lines to see if the price will drop) can swoop in and make the trade for a fraction of what the Blue Jays had hoped to get for him … again just like what the Mets did with Santana.
But as long as their other teams out there that are willing to part with high value players AND re-negotiate his contract, I dont see the Yankees jumping in.
Especially now that Pettitte is back … their rotation is set for next year if they dont do anything else.
Nice to have leverage!!!!
Chip,
Ryan Church was just DFA’ed by a team desperate for offense.
Glaus hasn’t been the same since he got off the juice.
The Yankees have no interest in either guy.
They would sign Vlad Guerrero to DH before signing either one of those guys.
So according to Boras, Damon is a middle of the order hitter? haha
Please! you’re killing me. First Winn, then DeJesus, now Church and Tracy.
Not the Arizona Chad Tracy. The Chad Tracy available in the Rule V draft: http://www.baseball-reference......acy-002cha
“Boras talking to media. Says Damon belongs at top of NYY order and Granderson fits better lower”
If only Damon were a Yankee right now, he’d be 100% correct.
SJ, Good thing you’re not here at nigh, it’s crazy…..Several last night were pushing for signing Cameron for CF, and slide Curtis to left…..My point was that Melky cost less than 2 million, is 12 years younger, and the difference does not warrant the dough….In the end The Yanks will have the final say on Roy Halladay and where he pitches in 2010…..
Why even talk about Ryan Church and Troy Glaus when better players are available? I just don’t get it.
the granderson trade seems to have rattled boras a little regarding damon
squidward
December 9th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
“Boras talking to media. Says Damon belongs at top of NYY order and Granderson fits better lower”
If only Damon were a Yankee right now, he’d be 100% correct.
************************
LOL
WYH: I do stay mobile, but I’ve been consistent on this question since it was discussed over a year ago.
Consistantly wrong, perhaps.
Regarding Doc, I doesn’t matter if there are 10 teams with better farms sysytems than the Yanks; most of those 10 teams aren’t on Doc’s list of acceptable destinations.
Also, if the Yanks were to trade for Doc, they could include a player such as Joba who isn’t part of the farm system anymore.
don’t think joba will ever be a solid SP, the guy is never relaxed on the mound…he may have a nice run of games but in the long run it will all even out
Damon and Sheets. We could do Matsui and Sheets instead but I’d be a little concerned about an outfield injury. What about Vlad instead of Damon/Matsui?
There is no way the Yankees are putting that kind of money in their bullpen Chip.
Look at what Cashman has done the last few years.
He has kept the bullpen at a low cost, with the exception of Mo.
He’s not putting that kind of money into the pen.
Especially since he already has guys like Robertson, Marte, possibly Joba, Aceves, etc to make up the pen.
He’s not trading Swisher, further reducing his offense, and put that money in the bullpen. It goes against everything he’s done since 2005.
Pat M-
I think CG’s natural position is more LF than CF, although CG can certainly play CF. And as long as he’s signed to a short term contract, I don’t see what Cameron’s age has to do with anything. In all likelihood Cameron will be significantly better than Melky in 2009.
“the problem is that what he’s smart in is not necessarily about baseball.”
100% disagree.
“and what was up with that carpenter cy young non vote?”
It was absolutely the right vote, Javier Vazquez was the 2nd most valuable pitcher in the NL, Adam Wainright was the third most valuable.
How do you figure R. Soriano will earn 9 mil in his arbitration case? Their newly signed closer earns less than 7 mil per season and Soriano is not considered a closer.
Signing bonuses and buyouts are averaged over the length of the contract for Luxury tax purposes. That’s the only payroll number that really matters.
The actual money paid out will always be a little different because of those factors and the way some salaries rise and fall during the length of the agreement.
That’s why all the silliness about CC Sabathia “getting $ 9 Million more in 2010″ drove me nuts. He received $ 23 million in 2009 and he’ll get $ 23 million in 2010. However for luxury tax purposes the Yankees will take a bigger hit in 2010.
That’s why columnists’ make believe payroll numbers are goofy because they don’t know and they don’t specify if that’s a cash outlay budget or a luxury tax charge budget. The figures can be several million apart.
Ryan Church was just DFA’ed by a team desperate for offense.
Glaus hasn’t been the same since he got off the juice.
—————–
Church was DFA’d because they needed a roster spot for Soriano and because they are moving McLouth to RF to make room for their top prospect Jordan Schaefer and because Church was up for arbitration.
Well I don’t know when Glaus got off the juice because his power numbers have stayed pretty consistant for the last 5 years. When he plays, he hits:
06 – 158 games, 38 HR, .252 BA
07 – 115 games, 20 HR, .262 BA
08 – 151 games, 27 HR, .270 BA
09 – 14 games
WYH is right again
Cameron would be a great pick-up for this team.
Nick-
If Giambi’s buyout was indeed in 2008, then getting both Halladay and another OF seems even less likely to me.
I don’t like the bullpen as it stands. There is no setup guy and I highly doubt Joba or Hughes go to the pen this year.
Thanks for the thoughts guys. I didn’t think he was dissing anyone. I clearly said other teams may have a package to top that, but they’d hold on to it rather than trade for Halladay. But I don’t think the Sox could top that. And they would be the only one interested in blocking the Yankees.
The way Law made it sound is that the Yankees could have Doc for Hughes and montero. But other teams could come up with better packages if they wanted to keep Halladay out of the Bronx. Those were his words.
(and I just jumped on, haven’t read anything, so didn’t see what you wrote earlier, Patrick
)
There is no way the Yankees are putting that kind of money in their bullpen Chip.
It’s a 1 year deal and in no way hampers the long term plans. It helps them actually by clearing Swisher’s salary for 2011.
I think the only way to improve this team is to get ride of Jeter and let Robert Eenhoorn play SS
Gotta give Pettitte a lot of credit for not trying to hold the yankees up or threatening to go to another team (which would leve NYY in a lurch). The other thing is his request to go year to year on his contracts and not be obligated if he doesn’t perform to his expectations. If he feels like calling it quits at the end of the year, they’ll know it by the end of the season.
Chip is starting to remind me of Brandon.
If he starts clamoring for Jody Gerut and that Threets guy, then we know he is indeed Brandon.
Pat M,
Here’s what I don’t get……
Speculating about the roster is fun and we all do it.
However, some folks make two mistakes when doing so:
1. They believe “short term solutions” at certain positions mean, the Yankees have to sign bad or washed up players. That’s not the case.
The Yankees can find what they need in this market, good players, at the proper price. It just takes a little time to flesh things out.
2. These same folks haven’t followed what Cashman has done the past few years. Wait the market out, not waste huge money in the bullpen, and strike at the RIGHT players. Not just everybody on the market.
If you figure out these two points, its pretty easy to read the tea leaves as to the Yankees options in this market.
Why even talk about Ryan Church and Troy Glaus when better players are available? I just don’t get it.
Because as I said before – this is the winter of the stop gap. Are Church and Glaus studs? No, not even close. But both are capable ML veterans who would fit in as complimentary parts on this team and be gone after the season, further freeing up both money and roster spots to go after the better crop of free agents.
He’s not trading Swisher, further reducing his offense, and put that money in the bullpen. It goes against everything he’s done since 2005.
——————————————————-
agreed
you can’t trade away all that offense for bullpen help
makes zero sense
we are a little short on offense now when compared to this past year & to trade swish for pen help & lose a lot of offense & increase payroll would be a crime
sign lackey or try to steal halladay & we are done unless cash gets the ok to add a lf/dh
getting another pitcher also might allow us to put hughes/joba in the pen eliminating the need for pen help anyways
One way to win your division is to lure key players from your primary opponent. Looks like the Mariners are trying to get both Lackey and Oliver. Nice. Oliver is a good situational power lefty, despite his age.
I would not trade Swisher for Soriano.
I’d offer them Gardner and Miranda.
Gardner can leadoff for the Braves and they can move McLouth to LF. At the very least, Gardner is an NL type player they can use as a cheap 4th OF and backup CF.
Miranda can play 1b for them now that Laroche is a free agent.
I don’t see why the Yankees need Gardner if they’re gonna sign DeRosa. Melky is the backup CF and when he’s not in LF, DeRosa will be in LF and Melky moves to CF. So what’s the point of having 2 backup CF’s?
Miranda is blocked by Tex. Can’t get much more irrelevant than that.
Bret the Hitman -
Boras is not saying Damon is a middle of the order guy. The speculation has been, from a few others on tv and radio, that Damon (if the Yankees sign him) would remain in the #2 spot with Granderson hitting in the bottom third of the order. It would give Granderson RBI opportunities as well as table-setting opportunities. Damon is clearly the #2 guy for the Yankees if signed.
If Damon is not signed, I’m not sure what they’ll do. Granderson has hit 2nd, but he’d have to re-concentrate his efforts on his BA and less on his HR.
holy crap no one is trading Nick Swisher, he of the .374 OBP and 30 HRs, AND Alfredo Aceves for Rafael Soriano, injury risk middle reliever.
In no Universe does that trade happen, unless we find out Nick Swisher is a clubhouse cancer and we *have to trade him!!!*
We wouldn’t even trade Gardner and Miranda for Soriano. He is making way too much money, no team is going to trade anything of real value for Rafael Soriano.
Their best bet is to eat some of the salary, get a middle prospect, or package him with Javier Vazquez or Derek Lowe.
I honestly cannot believe that anyone is suggesting Swisher for Soriano. The Yankees are getting KILLED in that deal. And you guys added Aceves?!!?!?!?
Although Cashman may be doing it on the quiet, he could be interested in seeing the medical records of Ben Sheets as an alternative move.
If they’re to his and the team doctor’s liking, he could move fast.
Chip, were you an only child?
“If he starts clamoring for Jody Gerut and that Threets guy, then we know he is indeed Brandon.”
Don’t forget whinning over the Tabata trade.
I don’t think Halladay fits in the budget.
Plus, I’m very, very against trading Montero. I’d also prefer to keep Hughes. I don’t think Joba, Romine plus others would get it done.
He’d be much more of an option if they hadn’t signed Burnett last year…
I think they’ll try to get Sheets, Harden, or Bedard.
Chip,
My point is, guys like Mike Cameron, Nick Johnson, Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui are all better than Ryan Church and Troy Glaus and would all (with the possible exception of Johnson) accept short-term deals.
It’s like if you go to rent a car for a day and the guy tells you “I have a BMW M6 and a Honda Civic, both are the same price, which would you like?” You would be asking for the Civic, I’d be asking for the beamer
Bret,
Soriano is arbitration eligible this year.
Most people in the game put his number at between 8.5 and 9 million this year.
He’s going to get that in arbitration. That’s why the Braves are trading him.
Damaso Marte and Dave Robertson will setup Mo. Two guys who are certainly capable of doing the job and will cost less than 5 million total.
Chip,
When a guy gets DFA’ed from a team desperate for offense, he can’t play.
The Braves could have DFA’ed somebody else to open space on the 40 man.
Why in the world would the Yankees want a guy who just got bounced by an offensively challenged team like the Braves?
They actually want guys who can play. Ryan Church can’t play at the level needed to help the Yankees.
It really matters very little what most “other teams” could put together for Doc. Most of them can’t afford 1) to pay him for 2010 and 2) to extend him and he wouldn’t go to most of them anyway.
http://kissingsuzykolber.uprox.....hester.jpg
Look in the middle of this picture: It’s Peter Gammons.
They believe “short term solutions” at certain positions mean, the Yankees have to sign bad or washed up players. That’s not the case.
Ok – SJ – who are your solutions. Lemme guess – just bring back Damon and Matsui who will obviously accept 1 year offers from the Yankees because they are true Yankees at heart?
First of all we’re talking about a down FA market and so getting even older or flawed players to take 1 year deals is going to be rough
Second the Yankees just made a major trade involving two of their prospects, I don’t see Cashman moving additional prospects for short term fixes.
The moves I suggest fill the need for short term fixes, they are not (as you suggest) washed up players, they’re buy low players – just like Nick Swisher and Edwin Jackson were last year.
GB7 -
I keep seeing references to your health. I’ve been skipping around these parts the last couple of days and not reading every single thread.
I hope all is well and wish you a speedy recovery from whatever it is that ails you.
I wouldn’t trade Montero. Sorry, they could take both Hughes and Chamberlain and whoever they want from our minor league system.
Not Montero
I miss talking about wearing white socks with sneaker…
I don’t see how Soriano can get 8.5 to 9 million in arbitration when the Braves just inked a closer for 6.5 million. How many saves will Soriano be carrying in his briefcase when he goes to his hearing? His raise from 5 million will be largely determined by comparables of setup guys, no?
“It really matters very little what most “other teams” could put together for Doc. Most of them can’t afford 1) to pay him for 2010 and 2) to extend him and he wouldn’t go to most of them anyway.”
You’re right it is pointless. Apparently the purpose of Law’s article was to answer the question, “Can the Yankees top any other trade offer made for Doc Holliday?” which I think is a stupid question to ask in the first place.
I’d like to know what players you want the Yankees to go after now. Anyone want to share what they think the team should do going forward?
I’d prefer Robertson in the 7th at this stage in his career and Marte as a lefty specialist in th 7th and 8th. I want a bonafide setup guy in there with Mo. The bullpen is far from lights-out right now. We just dealt 2 middle relievers so all that workload will go to lesser known commodities, making the end of the game that much more high leverage.
Chip I just gave you 4 candidates that would all accept short term deals. Nick Johnson, Mike Cameron, Hideki Matsui and Johnny Damon.
They could probably also get Milton Bradley for a low cost if they wanted to.
“Anyone want to share what they think the team should do going forward?”
1. Sign Damon or Mike Cameron
2. Sign Matsui or Nick Johnson
3. Non-tender Wang then sign him to an incentive laden deal.
offseason over
Other than the signing of Pettitte, slow day at the Winter Meetings. Still waiting on resolution of yesterday’s 3-team deal. Keeping fingers crossed.
Our bullpen right now:
Mariano
Marte (L)
Robertson
Aceves
Gaudin
Mitre
I expect Mitre to be in Scranton for depth, so who are the most likely 2 candidates to round out the bullpen at 7?
Albaladejo, Dunn (L), Melancon? Who else?
Bret,
Soriano made 6.35 million last year and had a great year.
It doesn’t matter who the Braves signed to be their closer next year. That isn’t going to affect his arbitration number.
Armed with what he did last year, he will have a great chance in his hearing to hit his number…..which will be between 8.5 and 9 million.
Chip,
Your solutions involve guys who can’t play.
Hideki Matsui is a better hitter than the myriad of guys you offer up everyday. So is Johnny Damon. So is Vlad Guerrero.
All three guys can be had by the Yankees at numbers that can EASILY fit their budget.
They are giving Damon first shot at the spot. If he doesn’t take it, they move onto Matsui or Vlad.
They don’t need to go to the bottom of the barrel to do a short term deal.
Bobby Abreu set the market for guys 34 and over on a short term deal.
Sometimes, you just have to wait it, wait until the nonense subsides, and you then make a deal.
Next winter they will have the following off the books:
Mariano – 15 mil
Jeter – 20(ish) mil
Matsui – 9 mil
Damon – 9 mil
Soriano – 7 mil
Andy – 12 mil
That’s around 65 mil off the books.
Now we can assume that about $35 of that is going to Mo and Jeter so that’s 30 mil to spend on Crawford, Werth, Lee, Halladay – vs 23 mil if Swisher is still on the books.
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or they can pay jeter and mariano more what players their age should make(say 12 mil and 12 mil) AND keep swisher and still have OVER 30 million to play with…
I think the yankees do need to look at the bullpen.
I’d like to know what players you want the Yankees to go after now. Anyone want to share what they think the team should do going forward?
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another lefty reliever is a must. perhaps gonzalez.
My point is, guys like Mike Cameron, Nick Johnson, Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui are all better than Ryan Church and Troy Glaus and would all (with the possible exception of Johnson) accept short-term deals.
First – you don’t know that about them accepting short term deals
Second – if signing Cameron means giving him two years (which it might) and then Crawford gets to free agency you’re going to be killing Cashman for having Cameron taking up a spot that could go to a guy like Crawford
The Braves could have DFA’ed somebody else to open space on the 40 man.
SJ – I’ll say it again slowly for you my friend, try to keep up – Church was DFA’d for a combination of the following: Jordan Schaefer needs a place to play, Church was going to get a raise through arbitration that the Braves can’t afford, and they needed the roster spot.
Again – that doesn’t mean he can’t play.
Also I’m not saying that he or Glaus are great players, they’re both flawed. But smart GMs buy low on guys coming off down years. Last year he got Nick Swisher for Wilson Betemit because Swisher was coming off an awful year, Dombrowski got Edwin Jackson for Ryan Rayburn, Kenny Williams got Carlos Quentin for a minor leaguer, Wayne Krivsky got Brandon Phillips for garbage…
To add to Patrick’s point, I’d put Mike Cameron and Nick Johnson on that list.
That’s more than enough guys to put the Yankees in play with better options than bottom of the barrel options.
I just jumped on, so I didn’t see any previous discussions about Law’s article or Law himself.
I also said that other teams could top the offer, just didn’t think they would. The only team that “needs” to keep Doc out of the Bronx would be Boston, and I personally feel they can’t top Hughes and montero even if they were to offer it. Which I highy doubt because the Yankees don’t “need” Doc that badly.
But the words “keep Halladay out of the Bronx” were uttered by K-Law in the espnews segment I saw earlier.
Not a bad plan Pat. I’m all in favor of what you listed, but I would also sign another starter like Harden, Sheets, Pineiro or Garland. Just someone to eat innings from the no.4 spot. I’d like to see Wang come back in full form, but its so hard to put stock into him.
I think the yankees do need to look at the bullpen
==
I heard Cashman just looked, Robertson gave a thumbs up and Harkey just patted his cap which signals that Marte is ready.
No, they are not spending a dime this season for BP help unless it falls in their lap. Been there, done that.
Why Mike Cameron over Damon or Matsui as your DH? Sorry, if your going for a 36 year old, make sure its one you know. Damon or Matsui will sign with the Yankees.
The only real tantalizing question is do they make a move for Halliday? That to me is the only suspense left.
sign lackey or trade for another pitcher
sign damon/matsui or someone else for dh/lf if cash gets the ok
6.35 million to 9 million in arby for Soriano? I don’t see it. He’s a setup guy. I think he earns 8 tops so if the Yankees can trade Gardner + Miranda, the net cost is more like 7. That’s fine for 1 year.
Mariano closer
Soriano setup and backup closer
Robertson 7th
Marte-7th-8th
That’s a sick finish.
Chip,
I’m going to say this slowly for you to understand.
Ryan Church was DFA’ed because he can’t play. Not because of money.
They are in on Jason Bay and Matt Holliday. If the Braves are in on those guys, are you going to tell me they can’t afford Ryan Church?
Ryan Church is not going to be an option for the Yankees.
We gave you a bunch of guys who are ahead of him on the pecking order and ALL of them are better players than Church.
If you can’t understand that, nobody can help you.
Yeah, the bullpen is pretty crowded as it is. Especially if one of Hughes or Joba gets shifted to the pen. That leaves only one spot open, assuming the rest of the pen is Rivera, Marte, Robertson, Aceves and Gaudin. They’ll probably fill that spot with the Rule V pick or Mark Melancon.
Brret,
The Yankees aren’t paying 8+ million for a setup guy.
Just aren’t going to do it.
Look at what Cashman has done the last 3 years. It goes against everything he has done.
Also, Soriano wants to close. He’s going to end up getting traded to a team that will use him as a closer. Mostly likely Baltimore or Houston.
Talking about Keith Law–like most of ESPN, he can’t keep his anti-Yankee bias out of it.
In my business I know plenty of guys with Harvard and MIT degrees. Hell, I am one. Means nothing in trying to evaluate baseball talent.
Yankees still have the best package, and they are the only ones with the $$$$ and the inclination to extend Roy Halliday.
The more I think about it, the more I think Jason Stark’s “report” on Halliday was wishful thinking, just like his supposed “analysis” of the Granderson deal (which was basically a warning that Granderson is on the decline).
I think the issue is what are these guys going to write about if the Yankees get Halliday? It’s going to be like being a Brooklyn Dodgers beat reporter in the 50s.
Two years for Cameron, if it comes to that, won’t exclude getting Crawford, because the Yanks don’t need to hold room for AJax anymore.
Chip
You sound like someone that comes home from the dump with more than you took.
No one is trading Gardner and Miranda for Soriano. He is owed too much and the Braves pretty much have to move him.
“the problem is that what he’s smart in is not necessarily about baseball.” -randy l
“100% disagree.”
patrick-
keith law a writer. no one from major league baseball is paying him anymore. those are the facts.
i’m highly skeptical of BP alumni.
keith law and keith woolner both went to major league teams and both teams went down the tubes.
both are no doubt brilliant guys, but that brilliance doesn’t seem to have much value to anyone who’s winning anything in major league baseball.
i will say for cashman that he’s paid his dues by being in the game for a long time. that’s something law and woolner haven’t done.
law and woolner are really newbies who haven’t done much at all in the game.
they have made a nice cottage industry out of what little actual baseball they do know though.
i’ll admit that takes a certain kind of brilliance.
Chip I just gave you 4 candidates that would all accept short term deals. Nick Johnson, Mike Cameron, Hideki Matsui and Johnny Damon.
Patrick -
a couple of things: signing Cameron or Damon wouldn’t preclude the Yankees from also adding a Church and/or Glaus. I’m fine with an OF of Damon, Granderson, Church and Glaus at DH. I’m also fine with Damon, Granderson, Church, Swisher at DH or…well you get the point.
I do worry about having both Curtis Granderson and Mike Cameron in the same lineup with all their strikeouts though.
I’ve posted it a few times so I’m sorry for the redundancy, but here are a bunch of guys who looked like they were either washed up or would never be big time ML players when they were buy lows by the teams that got them:
David Ortiz, Mike Lowell, Carlos Quentin, Nick Swisher, Brandon Phillips, Edwin Jackson, Jayson Werth…who is to say that a 30-year old Ryan Church or a 32-year old Troy Glaus don’t fit that mold?
Getting a guy like Church would be akin to Boston’s move of picking up Jeremy Hermida.
Here’s what I would with the pitching.
I’d sign Sheets. Assuming the medicals look ok, he has had plenty of time to rest and should be less risk than Harden or Bedard. He should cost south of $10 mil.
Near the end of spring training, if all six of CC, Burnett, Pettitte, Sheets, Hughes and Joba are healthy, I’d tell Joba he’s going to be a reliever and be Mo’s primary set up man. I was all for giving Joba a chance as a starter, but the more I watched him, the more he looked destined to be a good reliever, and possibly closer some day. He just doesn’t look to me to have the mentality to be a starter. If someone’s arm falls off, you can continue to give him a chance as a starter.
Rotation would be CC, Burnett, Pettitte, Sheets, Hughes. You would have Mo as closer, Joba for the 8th, Marte and Robertson for 6/7, and Aceves as your long man and emergency starter.
You’d also have money left to get a LF, put Melky in RF and Swisher primarily at DH.
And no one is suggesting Cameron over Damon or Matsui for DH. it would be Cameron over Damon for LF, fill in Dh with whomever (damon,matsui,whatever).
Granderson+Cameron > Damon+Melky
DH would be Damon vs Matsui vs Nick Johnson, which for me is a wash entirely and depends on what kind of offensive production you want.
Damon = Slashing and power at home, backups OF
Matsui = middle line, power all over, straight DH
Johnson = high average, high on base, middling power, backups 1B
If the Braves are in on those guys, are you going to tell me they can’t afford Ryan Church?
Well cutting payroll by DFAing and non-tendering guys who are up for arbitration is one way you clear payroll so you can go after guys like Bay and Holliday.
Look, I would be thrilled to plug Matt Holliday into LF, I just don’t see it happening.
By the way – I have to laugh that you consider Glaus washed up and then list Vlad who needs a walker to get around the bases as a viable alternative.
“keith law a writer. no one from major league baseball is paying him anymore. those are the facts.”
Uhh I never denied that.
The fact of the matter is, Keith Law is an excellent talent evaluator. He watches a zillion minor league games a year and does a great job scouting talent for his columns.
He also has the right idea when it comes to evaluating a player’s value. For example, the Cy Young voting this year. He was one of the only members of the BBWA that evaluated the pitchers in the NL in a proper and correct way.
Honestly, if Cashman were to leave the Yankees Keith Law would be my first choice for GM.
i don’t think the jays will get anything close to hughes/joba,montero & more unless they are willing to keep him
doc is in the drivers seat not them
maybe joba & a bunch of others but not robertson or montero
Doreen
December 9th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
GB7 -
I keep seeing references to your health. I’ve been skipping around these parts the last couple of days and not reading every single thread.
I hope all is well and wish you a speedy recovery from whatever it is that ails you.
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Thank you, Doreen for your thoughts. Right now, they’re trying to decide on it being something about shadows in the lungs or just meanness. I’m thinking that it’s just me becoming a sweetheart of a guy and the body can’t handle the shock.
i don’t think the jays will get anything close to hughes/joba,montero & more
forget the unless they are willing to keep him part
what i meant is that they may decide to keep him
“The fact of the matter is, Keith Law is an excellent talent evaluator. He watches a zillion minor league games a year and does a great job scouting talent for his columns.”
patrick-
i’m kind of just poking fun at law, but that said, i’m confused.
is he a writer or is he a scout?
if he’s a scout how is he in the BBWAA ?
if he’s not a writer he shouldn’t be in the the BBWAAA.
if he is a writer, name me the last baseball writer who has become a GM?
GB7 -
I hope it’s their faulty equipment and not yours.
randy,
Not sure if you’re still paying attention to this thread but I’ll post my response here anyways.
Law is obviously a writer and as you know he previously worked as an executive for the Blue Jays.
I was simply talking about the fact that the majority of the time he writes about the minor leagues and about various prospects. To do that he watches a lot of minor league games and evaluates talent based on what he sees, very similar to what a scout does. That was my only point..
I have no clue if any writer has ever been a GM but I feel like Law’s ability to evaluate prospects and his ability to gauge value is among the best in the business.
I need to settle something regarding Granderson. I have a friend who INSISTS that the Yankees are a better team with Damon and Matsui rather then Damon/Matsui + Granderson. I happen to disagree. Just want some other opinions.