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About Jamie Hoffmann

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 10, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Rule 5 draft is a bit of a crapshoot. The Yankees (essentially) had the first pick in today’s draft and took Jamie Hoffmann, a guy who was generating absolutely no media buzz until 15 minutes before the selection. I talked to another executive who said his team didn’t even have Hoffmann on its list of targets. Baseball America didn’t list him among its top 20 candidates. But that’s not unusual. This is all about teams going after a specific need. Maybe that’s a left-handed pitcher or a utility infielder or a speed guy off the bench. It’s often high-ceiling, not quite ready talent for a team that doesn’t expect to contend. For the Yankees, it was a right-handed outfielder who can hit lefties.

Hoffmann

Jamie Hoffmann
Outfielder
25 years old
6-3, 235 lbs 

Drafted: He was never taken in baseball’s amateur draft — that’s the Rule 4 draft, by the way – but he was an eighth-round pick in the NHL. The Dodgers signed him out of high school as a non-drafted free agent.

Career: Hoffman’s power numbers have actually gotten better as he’s advanced through the minor leagues. Just a guess, but that might be the result of him improving by playing more baseball and less hockey. Last year he opened in Double-A, went to Triple-A after 29 games and went to the big leagues eight games later. He stayed in Los Angeles for a month, got just 22 at-bats, and finished with solid numbers in the Pacific Coast League.

Defense: Baseball America rated Hoffmann as the best defensive player in the Dodgers system, above average across the board. He’s played 325 minor league games in center field, 258 in right and 13 in left. He was primarily a center fielder during his time in Triple-A. Baseball America notes that he “gets good jumps and runs good routes.”

Offense: Hoffmann is a career .283 hitter with a .401 slugging percentage, but his slugging was .455 in Triple-A this year. He’s not a huge strikeout guy either. He had 37 strikeouts and 32 walks in 257 Triple-A at-bats this season. While his power has improved, he’s never hit more than 11 home runs in a season. That was this year. He hit 10 in 2008 and nine in 2007. He’s reached double digit steals every season, but he’s only gone above 20 steals once.

Why he was available: When the Dodgers made their September call-ups this year, they took Hoffmann off the 40-man roster, but the story is a bit more complicated than that, at least according to Brian Cashman. “The Dodgers last year reduced him from their roster, and teams put claims on him throughout the game,” Cashman said. “But (the Dodgers) had a deal with him of signing him back. They gave him a $25,000 signing bonus, so he rejected the claims and went to Triple-A for them. It was a smart deal by the Dodgers to try to protect their assets when they got into a roster crunch. They knew he wouldn’t get through the outright, and he didn’t.” I honestly had no idea a player could reject a claim, but there you have it.

Where he fits for the Yankees: He’ll have a chance to win a bench role in spring training. “He’s got a lot of talent,” Cashman said. “Right-handed hitter. We’ll see what he does. He has great makeup. He’s got ability. We project him, in the future, as an everyday-type player. We’ve got all those left-handed bats, we’ll see how he mixes in.”

Comments

comments

 

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364 Responses to “About Jamie Hoffmann”

  1. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 11:07 am

    Sounds good to me.

    I do think that if he sticks it will mean the end of the road for Brett Gardner.

  2. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 11:08 am

    Let’s just hope that this works out as well for the Yankees as Josh Hamilton, Dan Uggla, Shane Victorino worked out for their clubs.

  3. Phil December 10th, 2009 at 11:09 am

    Or Melky.

  4. Phil December 10th, 2009 at 11:10 am

    btw, it’s December 10th and the Yanks still have all of their draft picks!

  5. Tom in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 11:12 am

    As of right now, they have 5 outfielderson the Roster-Granderson, Swisher, Melky, Gardner and Hoffmann.

    Either they’re looking to fill the DH role now or somebody is going to be sent packing.

  6. blake December 10th, 2009 at 11:13 am

    Yea they might be thinking of shopping Gardner or melky.

  7. Irabu's Son December 10th, 2009 at 11:13 am

    he sure doesn’t look fast..

  8. nature boy December 10th, 2009 at 11:14 am

    how long before people start clamoring for cashman to sign the just-released kansas city royals 1b mike jacobs? he fits right into that ryan church mold that seems to be desired.

  9. Betsy -high on pie December 10th, 2009 at 11:14 am

    YankeesWFAN From a scout who knows Jamie Hoffman:You will love him!!! Gamer/ former Hockey player. He can play all 3 outfield spots solid avg arm.

    Buster_ESPN The Yanks intend to head into spring training assuming they’ll keep Rule 5 pick Hoffman on the roster.
    less than 10 seconds ago from web

    Buster_ESPN The Yankees intend to use market forces to pressure Damon to make a decision quickly.

    To Murti’s (YankeesWFAN) point… Hoffman is a natural RF and his arm is better than average. He also rates 80 out of 100 for speed. For reference Granderson rates 84, Gardner 96, Melky 68.

  10. NYYROC December 10th, 2009 at 11:14 am

    8th round pick in NHL? Cashman to use him on the power play? :)

  11. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 11:16 am

    Phil –

    I think they’re more likely to keep Melky over Gardner. Gardner’s only really got one skill (his legs) whereas Melky is a switch hitter and plus defender. And a guy like Ramiro Pena can serve as the pinch runner for the few times the Yankees need one.

  12. Neil December 10th, 2009 at 11:17 am

    There’s now a somewhat glut of outfielders with a strong possibility of Gardner back at AAA if Hoffman has a good spring and consequently having to be kept for the entire season or he’s back to the Dodgers.
    Any thoughts about Eric Hinske are out the window.

  13. L to the 2nd December 10th, 2009 at 11:18 am

    Looks like either Melky or Gardner is odd man out – especially if Damon comes back.

    Cash – sign Matsui already. You still need proper protection for ARod and Matsui has still proven he can hit lefties or righties in his sleep.

  14. Phil December 10th, 2009 at 11:18 am

    Chip,

    And Gardy’s one outstanding skill is more valuable off the bench then Melky’s more broadbased but average or below tools are. Especially with Hoffmann there.

  15. blake December 10th, 2009 at 11:18 am

    I saw Josh Hamilton play in high school. He was a lebron James type phenom at that level. The guy threw 95mph from the left side and hit balls over 400 feet at the plate. He’s good now but there is no telling what he could have been..

  16. cano he didnt December 10th, 2009 at 11:18 am

    kind of surprised the guy is that fast considering he’s 6’3″ and 235lbs. Hopefully he’ll be the next shelley duncan… well the 1st Shelly Duncan we got to see!

  17. Patrick the Prospect Hugger December 10th, 2009 at 11:19 am

    I’d rather trade Melky, not Gardner. Just my opinion but I like Gardner better than Melky.

  18. Bronx Jeers December 10th, 2009 at 11:19 am

    A hockey player? That’s awesome.

    Maybe he really can fill Shelly’s shoes in the brawl dept.

  19. murphydog December 10th, 2009 at 11:19 am

    8th round pick in NHL? Cashman to use him on the power play?

    LMAO!

  20. Erin December 10th, 2009 at 11:20 am

    L to the 2nd
    December 10th, 2009 at 11:18 am

    Cash – sign Matsui already. You still need proper protection for ARod and Matsui has still proven he can hit lefties or righties in his sleep.

    ******************
    I’m with you!! Hopefully Cashman is too.

  21. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 11:20 am

    Either they’re looking to fill the DH role now or somebody is going to be sent packing.

    Sign Damon and either play him in LF or DH
    Gardner back to the minors
    OF: Melky, Granderson, Swisher with Damon at DH (or Melky in RF, Damon in LF and Swisher at DH; Either works)

  22. L to the 2nd December 10th, 2009 at 11:20 am

    Nice salary dump for the RS essentially giving away Lowell.

    They better sign either Bay or Holliday or they’re in deep doo-doo offensively – unless they still have Adrian Gonzalez pipe dreams dancing through their heads.

    And don’t forget that big Boof Bonser acquisition either.

  23. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 11:22 am

    I’d rather trade Melky, not Gardner. Just my opinion but I like Gardner better than Melky.

    don’t have to trade either. Gardner could just be sent to AAA.

  24. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 11:22 am

    The Dodgers want him back.

  25. CountryClub December 10th, 2009 at 11:22 am

    They don’t have to trade Gardner. He has an option left, so he can go back to AAA.

    I’m sure they would be open to moving him in the right deal (obviously). But there’s no need to just give him a way.

  26. Joe Vogel December 10th, 2009 at 11:23 am

    I presume this is possibly the other half of a CF Granderson platoon (if he makes it out of Spring Training).
    Further, if push comes to shove and either Melky or Gardner must go, I would bet the ranch (small ranch, no livestock/horses) that it is Melky (he only has one plus attribute, his arm, all his other skills are average and some below). Conversely, Gardner has one skill that he does remarkably well (speed), that translates into him being a plus CF and a demon on the basepaths (a starter with a .350 OBP, a valuable 4th OF if below). Melky is more like a starter on the Pirates and a sub at best on a good team (He started last year by default).

  27. CountryClub December 10th, 2009 at 11:24 am

    It’s not a salary dump because they still have to pay 9 mil of Lowe’s contract. All it really does is open up a position on the diamond. Now they can get a 3rd baseman or 1st baseman or even a catcher (and put Martinez at 1st).

  28. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 11:25 am

    The Dodgers want him back.

    Rich – based on what Chad wrote above I would agree. Which means that if the Yankees really like this guy then they’re going to have to find a place for him on the bench or else LA will jump to bring him back.

    I’m sure Brian was blowing a little smoke, but if he’s what Cashman thinks he is then there’s a chance the Yankees let the kid compete to start at somepoint in the season.

  29. Patrick the Prospect Hugger December 10th, 2009 at 11:26 am

    “don’t have to trade either. Gardner could just be sent to AAA.”

    I wouldn’t do that but it’s certainly possible.

    I hope Cashman trades Melky, signs Cameron and Matsui, puts Cameron in CF, Granderson in LF and stashes Gardner/Hoffman on the bench.

  30. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 11:28 am

    presume this is possibly the other half of a CF Granderson platoon (if he makes it out of Spring Training).

    Granderson was not brought here to be a platoon player. He was, I think, brought in because I think the Yankees wanted a right handed bat on the bench and like his upside better than that of a Xavier Nady.

    Even if he doesn’t hit much in Spring he’ll stick with the club because of his glove.

  31. Teddy Vercetti December 10th, 2009 at 11:28 am

    Sign Damon. Trade Melky/Gardner and a lower level prospect to KC for DeJesus. An OF of DeJesus/Granderson/Swisher is an upgrade defensively and Damon at DH is essentially a wash from last year.

  32. tex's friend December 10th, 2009 at 11:29 am

    forget halladay. sign sheets.

  33. Doreen December 10th, 2009 at 11:29 am

    I hate to agree that Melky “could” be the odd man out – I like him a lot. But I think he’d be more valued as a commodity in a trade than Gardner – he’s more an everyday player than Gardner is at this point.

    Of course, if there is a match with a team looking for a 5th OF with off-the-bench speed, then Gardner would fit that bill.

  34. damon enjoy 27...think 28 December 10th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    Cashman tells Kepner Juan Miranda could be the DH if they wanted to.

  35. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    I hope Cashman trades Melky, signs Cameron and Matsui, puts Cameron in CF, Granderson in LF and stashes Gardner/Hoffman on the bench.

    I would rather he signs Damon, sends Gardner to AAA (or deals him for a relief pitcher to replace Kroenke) and goes with:
    Jeter
    Damon – DH
    Tex
    Alex
    Granderson
    Posada
    Cano
    Swisher
    Melky

  36. tex's friend December 10th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    presume this is possibly the other half of a CF Granderson platoon (if he makes it out of Spring Training).

    ___

    for the 10 millionth time, they are not platooning granderson. he is an allstar cf. he will learn to hit lefties a little better, but he will nto be benched everytime a lefty is pitching, so forget that.

  37. vin December 10th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    Having known nothing about Hoffman prior to today, I can absolutely say that I love this pick. The only players that would have a chance of sticking on the 25 man roster all season would be a 5th outfielder or 12th pitcher.

    Hoffman seems to fit the Yanks’ needs perfectly. A versatile OF who can hit lefties (and righties from what I read). Can play all 3 OF positions.

    He tore up AA last year, and played well in AAA. So many of the R5 candidates that I was reading about had never played above AA, so its good to see Cashman get a guy who has big league and AAA experience.

    Who knows if he’ll stick on the roster all season, but he beats the hell out of Josh Phelps.

  38. Phil December 10th, 2009 at 11:31 am

    L to the 2nd,

    It’s not a salary dump when you are sending 9M along with the dumpee.

  39. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 11:31 am

    Cashman tells Kepner Juan Miranda could be the DH if they wanted to.

    I’m sure he could – and Bubba Crosby could have been the starting CF if the Yankees wanted a couple of years ago.

  40. charlestonchew December 10th, 2009 at 11:32 am

    If the Royals want Gardner, I say we trade him for a reliever. We don’t need him and I’d rather not get rid of Melky who is far superior to Gardner.

    Gardner will never start on this team. Melky has done it for years.

    We have given this enough time to play out. Let’s just move on.

  41. raymagnetic December 10th, 2009 at 11:33 am

    Gamer? Anytime I see the word gamer I immediately take the analysis with a grain of sat

  42. Erin December 10th, 2009 at 11:33 am

    Chip
    December 10th, 2009 at 11:31 am
    Cashman tells Kepner Juan Miranda could be the DH if they wanted to.

    I’m sure he could – and Bubba Crosby could have been the starting CF if the Yankees wanted a couple of years ago.

    ******************************
    LOL

  43. murphydog December 10th, 2009 at 11:34 am

    Not for nothing, but every bnow and then I sit back and realize what a great, great resource this blog is.

    Yes, we have our bad days when the covnersation sinks to the lowest common denominator (Tiger Woods – my bad), and there are troll atacks, but really, Chad, Sam and Josh put up the smartest posts in town and the usual give and take with the bloggies is really good stuff. What’s the prize for best blogging called? I’m pencilling Sam, Josh and Chad in now as the winners.

    And IMO this is better than the so-called “insider” stuff. This is free and it’s more balanced and provides a broader perspective instead of a single voice. Thanks guys.

    Now back to our regularly scheduled programming ;)

  44. L to the 2nd December 10th, 2009 at 11:34 am

    It’s looking more apparent that Halladay is either going to the Angels or nowhere.

    Fine with me – it keeps him away from BOS, and they’re gonna probably lose both Lackey & Saunders as a result.

    Price is just too steep – and Cashman ain’t stupid.

    I said this about 100x – I don’t give them Joba, Hughes OR Montero. This is Santana ’08 all over again.

  45. RayVT December 10th, 2009 at 11:35 am

    Gardner needs to play more and AAA would give him that opportunity. Melky can play all 3 OF positions & is a Switch-hitter. With the new guy being able to play CF, I believe Gardner is expendable. I think the Yanks sign Damon & perhaps Matsui too, but Damon for sure. If Gardner could bunt for hits he could be valuable. Perhaps a season in AAA bunting & hitting grounders may help him.

  46. Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2009 at 11:36 am

    “I hope Cashman trades Melky, signs Cameron and Matsui, puts Cameron in CF, Granderson in LF and stashes Gardner/Hoffman on the bench.”

    Cameron and Matsui would be great, but if you do that you have to hold onto Melky. I’d trade BG in that situation, as his usefulness is diminished with the acquisition of CG. I’m not putting much stock in Hoffman.

  47. G. Love December 10th, 2009 at 11:36 am

    Sounds good to me. He doesn’t K a lot. Plays good defense and his stick is developing.

    When I saw he was RH I also thought for a second that here’s another option for Girardi in case Granderson is unable to hit lefties next season, although I think Granderson will hit them just fine.

    This kind of pick actually excites me since it was under the radar and it wasn’t some guy who throws 99mph and can’t put it anywhere near the plate.

    Hopefully, he sticks.

    At the very least, he’ll be great in any bench clearing brawls and can teach the Yankees to pull the jersey over the guy’s head when fighting from his hockey days.

    Still feel we sold a bit low on Bruney though.

  48. John in Ohio December 10th, 2009 at 11:37 am

    This guy made it to Triple-A very fast, although he did slide back to Double A for a year.

    Interesting. Might Cash be filling some holes in preparation for another trade?

    I love this stuff.

  49. blake December 10th, 2009 at 11:37 am

    If the royals want Gardner then I say trade him for greinke :)
    See this GM stuff isn’t so hard..

  50. braeden December 10th, 2009 at 11:37 am

    I’m really concerned if Damon has to lower his asking requirements,he’s bound to be disgruntled.Will he perform,or be a drag,because he didn’t get what he wanted? I like Johnny a lot,he needs to pull an Alex and jump ship(Boras)

  51. Jay Gargiulo December 10th, 2009 at 11:37 am

    Chad, on Baseball reference it says he’s played only 81 games in CF, as opposed to 258 in RF and 13 in LF.

    http://www.baseball-reference......ffma004jam

    I guess their numbers can’t tell the difference between OF positions at the lower levels of the minors? Still, it seems as though he was more of an RF in AA and AAA than a CF.

  52. Joe Vogel December 10th, 2009 at 11:39 am

    I like Granderson, but reality dictates that cannot hit LHP. He has nearly 2900 career PA’s and is a career .210/.270/.344 against LHP’s compared to .292/.367/.528 against RHP’s. Wishing that he could hit LHP’s won’t make it happen and I believe Cashman is hedging against this probability.
    Nady isn’t a like comparison to Hoffman as he is a veteran power-hitting corner OF in the middle of his career looking for his largest payday (good luck with your recent injury history), whereas Hoffman is a mid-20′s guy with moderate talent trying to make the majors. In the end, I think Cashman is taking a flier on a guy who could fill a complementary role on the ballclub.

  53. Patrick the Prospect Hugger December 10th, 2009 at 11:39 am

    I would rather he signs Damon, sends Gardner to AAA (or deals him for a relief pitcher to replace Kroenke) and goes with:
    Jeter
    Damon – DH
    Tex
    Alex
    Granderson
    Posada
    Cano
    Swisher
    Melky

    ———–

    You want Melky as full-time LF? I’d prefer a different LF to be quite honest.

    I also don’t like the idea of a rotating DH, that is a very high risk situation IMO.

  54. Simon December 10th, 2009 at 11:40 am

    Guys– enough already with trading Melky. It’s not going to happen. He’s young, he’s cheap, and he’s ATHLETIC.
    Nick Swisher makes like 8 million this year, doesn’t run as well as Melky, doesn’t play the outfield as well as Melky, doesn’t throw as well as Melky, and quite frankly is an inferior hitter (average-wise) than Melky. If anyone is going, it’s Swisher. Clears 8 million off the books…that’s Johnny Damon’s money!

  55. L to the 2nd December 10th, 2009 at 11:40 am

    I didn’t realize it was $9m – just a big dump, then.

    This thins out BOS’ depth offensively, although I’m sure they’re planning other moves.

    Agree w/tex’s friend – take a shot w/Sheets. TEX shot theirs on Harden, they’re probably done.

    Think BAL’s move getting Millwood was very shrewd – a workhorse who can mentor their 2 young kids (Tillman & Matusz).

  56. Patrick the Prospect Hugger December 10th, 2009 at 11:41 am

    “Gamer? Anytime I see the word gamer I immediately take the analysis with a grain of sat”

    Calling a player a “gamer” is another way to say “This guy is not very good but he tries real hard!”

  57. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 11:41 am

    Joel Sherman speculates in his blog that if the Angels really are offering up Erick Aybar, Joe Saunders and their top CF prospect for Halladay the Yankees might try to get in as a third team and offer up Joba in exchange for Saunders.

  58. Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2009 at 11:41 am

    From what I see on Hoffman’s minor league splits, he hit lefties particularly well only in 2009. I’m not ready to jump on his bandwagon yet.

  59. G. Love December 10th, 2009 at 11:41 am

    RayVT,

    I also think that Gardner is ticketed for AAA. I think they are going to send him down there to figure out what kind of hitter he wants to be.

    They also want to keep him in the organization so they don’t have to trade for a pinch runner as the games get more important.

    He’s a weapon and I think the Yankees know he needs more work on his hitting.

    I don’t think Melky is going anywhere. He fits perfectly as the backup for Swisher, Granderson and hopefully Damon.

    That said, Melky is starting to get expensive. If Cash deems his salary too high for his production/role that could spell the end for him.

    Still, let’s not overhype Hoffman. He has to prove it to the Yankees he deserves a spot on the roster. Most of the Rule V guys don’t work out.

  60. Simon December 10th, 2009 at 11:41 am

    What the hell is wrong with you people? Melky can cover enough ground for LF, he’s got the arm for it, and one thing he is at the plate is clutch. You’d rather have Gardner and his .220 batting noodle arm out there? Are you people insane?
    Melky may not be great at anything, but he’s solid all around. He’s young and athletic and cheap and he’s NOT going anywhere…

  61. vin December 10th, 2009 at 11:42 am

    “I hate to agree that Melky “could” be the odd man out – I like him a lot. But I think he’d be more valued as a commodity in a trade than Gardner – he’s more an everyday player than Gardner is at this point.”

    Perfectly said, Doreen. Melky is clearly the more valuable player – and I had lost a lot of patience with him after ’08.

    For some perspective… Melky is 9 days older than Hoffman, and has played in 564 more major league games. Melky was an average major league hitter as a 24 year old last year. The only thing working against him from a trade standpoint is that he’s already acrued a lot of service time. I believe he’ll be a free agent after 2011, and should make some decent coin in arbitration until then.

    Gardner is a year older, and still needs to do a lot to prove that he’s a better long-term investment than Melky.

    With Granderson in tow, centerfield will not be up for grabs for at least 4 years. That means either Melky or Gardner, if they are going to start will probably be in LF (maybe RF for Melky). Gardner does not hit nearly enough to be a regular corner outfielder. There are simply way too many other players out there who can put up much bigger numbers, and play a serviceable LF.

    Melky, on the other hand, has some pop in his bat (not a ton, but its developing), and doesn’t strike out much. He’s also a solid OFer who can play all 3 positions.

    Melky is the better player now, has a higher ceiling, and therefore has more trade value.

  62. John in Ohio December 10th, 2009 at 11:42 am

    Granderson is going to be a huge star playing CF everyday for the Yankees.

    He’ll see a lot more strikes with Tex behind him than he did with Polanco behind him.

    Don’t worry about Granderson.

  63. Patrick the Prospect Hugger December 10th, 2009 at 11:43 am

    “Cameron and Matsui would be great, but if you do that you have to hold onto Melky. I’d trade BG in that situation, as his usefulness is diminished with the acquisition of CG. I’m not putting much stock in Hoffman.”

    Well the only thing I’ll say in opposition to this is take a look at Gardner’s splits vs lefties. They are surprisingly good. Now, I know there isn’t a big enough sample size but if you believe in his ability to hit lefties and you believe that Hoffman is ready to play in the majors (not really sure on either count) then I think Melky is expendable.

  64. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 11:44 am

    Simon,

    I would rather not trade Melky either but your logic regarding Swisher is baffling.

    Swisher>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>….(goes to get a cup of coffee while this continues on, ok back)>>>>>>>Melky

  65. vin December 10th, 2009 at 11:45 am

    “Joel Sherman speculates in his blog that if the Angels really are offering up Erick Aybar, Joe Saunders and their top CF prospect for Halladay the Yankees might try to get in as a third team and offer up Joba in exchange for Saunders.”

    Sherman has been all over these Winter Meetings, which worries me because I can’t say I’d like to see that move. Saunders will be 29 next year, is either 1 or 2 years closer to free agency than Joba. He doesn’t strike out guys… Joba has more upside in his pinky than Saunders has in his whole body.

  66. Patrick the Prospect Hugger December 10th, 2009 at 11:46 am

    Maybe the Yanks don’t trade Melky but there is no way you will convince me that he should be a starting LF on the Yankees. Maybe you believe he will take a step forward next year, I don’t. He is a fourth outfielder and he will always be a fourth outfielder.

    The Yankees still need 2 hitters – an LF and a DH. Melky starting in LF is a no no. A rotating DH is a big no no. Give me 2 of Cameron, Matsui, Damon, Johnson please.

  67. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 11:46 am

    I was in effect killing Melky the other day in comparison to Cameron. But what Melky is to Cameron, Gardner is to Melky. Gardner over a full season would be a disaster. Melky right now is a league average CF while Gardner is a AAA player.

  68. raymagnetic December 10th, 2009 at 11:47 am

    Patrick,

    I agree about what being a gamer means. I just think that when scouts use the word gamer as the first thing they say about a guy they’re being very lazy.

  69. blake December 10th, 2009 at 11:47 am

    I’m far from the biggest Joba supporter but doesn’t he have quite a bit more upside than Saunders?

  70. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 11:47 am

    IF the Yankees were to trade Gardner to the Royals it would probably be for an arbitration eligible player. Those players include:

    John Bale, lhp; Brian Bannister, rhp; John Buck, c; Roman Colon, rhp; Kyle Davies, rhp; Alex Gordon, 3b; Robinson Tejeda, rhp; Doug Waechter, rhp.

    I think we can assume Alex Gordon is not happening. But looking at that list we know the Yankees have long considered Brian Bannister for the back of the rotation. Tejada wouldn’t be a bad relief option.

  71. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 11:48 am

    “I’m sure he could – and Bubba Crosby could have been the starting CF if the Yankees wanted a couple of years ago.”

    That’s how I read it.

  72. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 11:48 am

    I think they’ll keep Gardner and trade Melky.

  73. Patrick from CT December 10th, 2009 at 11:49 am

    Melky is a proven major league outfielder that has filled many holes/roles for the Yankees over the past 4 seasons. He is far more valuable then Gardy who has yet to proove he is a major league player over a full season. The only problem I can see with Melky is that he is going to cost 2mil or more going forward. Melky will be a starter on the Yankees unless the Yankees bring in another proven major league outfielder.
    The odds of this rule 5 guy making the team are pretty low. I see him as more competing with Gardy.

  74. Mike RI December 10th, 2009 at 11:49 am

    The last time i checked we won a World Series with Melky Starting in Center Field.

    Leave the kid alone.

    Some of you want a mercinary at every postion . Its actually nice to see the kids play.

  75. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 11:49 am

    If he sticks, he’s a versatile guy who will help against lefties. A useful bench piece.

    If he doesn’t stick, you lose nothing.

    It sounds like they are putting the full court press on Damon.

    Wouldn’t shock me if they get a deal done in the next week.

  76. Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2009 at 11:49 am

    Patrick-

    If you get Cameron and Matsui, the plan has to be that you intend to sit CG against lefties a lot, right? I guess you like BG more than I do – I don’t think he’ll be that effective playing primarily against lefties.

    Melky IMO fills the 4th OF/part-time LF role better than BG, plus I don’t think Melky will fetch that much in a trade. If you want to keep BG in that situation fine, you just send Hoffman back to LA. I suspect that’s what the Yanks end up doing anyway.

  77. raymagnetic December 10th, 2009 at 11:49 am

    What does Sherman’s blurb mean exactly? That the Yankees will flip Joba for Halladay with a third team supplying the CF and SS prospect?

  78. squidward December 10th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    “Joel Sherman speculates in his blog that if the Angels really are offering up Erick Aybar, Joe Saunders and their top CF prospect for Halladay the Yankees might try to get in as a third team and offer up Joba in exchange for Saunders.”

    And the Angels would get Joba?

  79. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    I really do not get the whole Melky in LF would be awful, but Melky in CF is fine.

    So this is bad: LF: Melky, CF: Grandy RF: Swisher

    but,

    this is ok: LF: Grandy, CF: Melky RF: Swisher

    Not saying it can not hurt to upgrade in LF, but Grandy produces like a corner OF so Melky playing LF is fine.

  80. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 11:51 am

    “The last time i checked we won a World Series with Melky Starting in Center Field.”

    And no #4 starter.

  81. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    “Joel Sherman speculates in his blog that if the Angels really are offering up Erick Aybar, Joe Saunders and their top CF prospect for Halladay the Yankees might try to get in as a third team and offer up Joba in exchange for Saunders.”

    Just report Joel, you can’t think your way out of a paper bag.

  82. KW December 10th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    I can see them using Miranda as a DH/1b/LF/RF as a righty-masher and Hoffmann filling pretty much the same role, but mashing lefties. I wouldn’t sleep on Miranda, it looks like they intend to use him this year. He hit a ridiculous HR at TB last year as an aside

  83. cano he didnt December 10th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins)
    December 10th, 2009 at 11:46 am
    I was in effect killing Melky the other day in comparison to Cameron. But what Melky is to Cameron, Gardner is to Melky. Gardner over a full season would be a disaster. Melky right now is a league average CF while Gardner is a AAA player.
    ———————————————————————-
    Melky may be a league avg. CF, unfortunately he wont/shouldnt be a CF on the yankees for the next 4 years or whatever. How does he compare to LF? Im sure he isnt league avg. there and that is IF he can even hit like he did last year. But, being a league avg. CF would most likely up his trade value if the yanks were to trade him.

  84. vin December 10th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    “Well the only thing I’ll say in opposition to this is take a look at Gardner’s splits vs lefties. They are surprisingly good. Now, I know there isn’t a big enough sample size but if you believe in his ability to hit lefties and you believe that Hoffman is ready to play in the majors (not really sure on either count) then I think Melky is expendable.”

    His numbers last year were pretty good against lefties…
    But in his (short) career:
    .241/.310/.316/.627 ops against lefties
    http://www.baseball-reference......;t=b#plato

    And that’s with his .289/.350/.408/.759 ops last year vs. lefties.

    The big sign for me that he struggles against lefties was that he rarely started in games against lefthanders – even last year. We all know Girardi is matchup-crazy, and if he wasn’t buying it, then neither am I.

  85. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    Chip,

    I think Bannister would be intriguing. Him as the 5th or 6th starter>Gardner as the 5th OF

  86. Swami sez ....... December 10th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    I see Johnny Damon in home pinstripes. Those of the Chicago White Sox that is.

  87. Mike RI December 10th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    Rich NJ-

    We got lucky getting by without a #4 starter. thank the weather

  88. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    I’m far from the biggest Joba supporter but doesn’t he have quite a bit more upside than Saunders?

    Depends – if Cashman is starting to feel that Joba’s a reliever and not a starter then getting a young(ish) established LH pitcher who has pitched in big spots then I would make the move.

  89. Tom in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    “Joba has more upside in his pinky than Saunders has in his whole body.”

    I agree, vin. However, it seems to be becoming clearer that the Yankees may not see Joba as a high impact starter anymore. His future may just be in the ‘pen.

  90. BigJoe44 December 10th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    I wish someone would let us know when a new post went up. This is from the old post, just wanted people to see it.

    Good to see the Yankees in the news again by picking up Hoffman in the Rule 5 Draft. Not sure what Cashman has in mind their, but I’m sure he has a plan.

    As it stands right now, I count 21 players who would be on the 25 man roster going into next year.
    1-5)CC, AJ, Andy, Hughes, and Joba
    6-14) Posada, Tex, Cano, Jeter, ARod, Melky, Granderson, Swish, and Gardner
    15-18) Mo, Robertson, Marte, and Aceves
    19-21) Cervelli, Pena, and Hoffman

    That leaves 4 more spots for the bullpen, and allows Girardi to have a revolving DH (something I don’t agree with).

    For all those bashing Gardner, I posted a comparison (complete with stats) yesterday between Gardner and Melky.
    Offensively, they put up similar totals but accomplish them in different ways.
    Melky is a better slugger, but Gardner gets on more and steals way more, making up for the lack of slugging.
    Defensively, Melky has a better arm, while Gardner has better range. Maybe someone can show us some defensive metrics that can show if one is better than the other.
    Saying one has more upside or more flaws at this point in their careers is not fact, but merely opinion. I like them both, but my opinion is if I could only have one, then I would go with Gardners speed either off the bench, or as a full time LF.

    With that said, lets see what else Cashman has up his sleeve. (Hoping it’s Matsui!!!)

  91. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 11:55 am

    And the Angels would get Joba?

    I assume that for it to be a three team deal it would go like this:

    Yankees get Joe Saunders
    Toronto gets Aybar, Joba, CF prospect from LAA
    LAA gets Halladay

  92. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 11:55 am

    The post-season schedule won’t allow them to only use 3 starters next year. Fewer off days.

  93. Joe Vogel December 10th, 2009 at 11:56 am

    There is no higher ceiling for Melky. He has had 4 full seasons in the majors and has displayed everything he has to offer. On his best day he is a league average offensive CF (he would clearly be below for a corner OF) with a strong arm (with a penchant for underutilizing it by overthrowing the cutoff man)and decent range. It doesn’t get any better than this. For Gardner, there may be more. Historically, he has shown a much higher walk rate than Melky, one that may translate into 70+/year in the majors. However, at this point, his first-pitch strike % is around 60% as he commands no respect from the league for his batting prowess. He’ll have to demonstrate a consistent ability to make solid contact first. If he does, I suspect the walks will come back.
    As far as trade value goes, neither him nor Melky command much at this point.

  94. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 11:56 am

    I think Bannister would be intriguing. Him as the 5th or 6th starter>Gardner as the 5th OF

    Agreed – he would replace Kennedy on the depth chart.

  95. Simon December 10th, 2009 at 11:56 am

    My thinking on Swisher is baffling? ARE YOU PEOPLE AWARE THAT NICK SWISHERS CAREER BATTING AVERAGE IS .245?!?!?! TWO HUNDRED AND FOURTY-FIVE.

    Melky not only is 25 points better on his career…he’s younger, cheaper, faster and more athletic than Swisher. I suppose all this does in fact give Melky the most trade value, but come on. The kid is a way better everyday option that Swisher. What does Swisher actually do on the field?!

  96. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    “I really do not get the whole Melky in LF would be awful, but Melky in CF is fine.”

    A league average LF has a significantly higher SLG than a league average CF. Melky falls a little short in CF and a lot short in LF. Ideally, you want at least league average production everywhere. Otherwise you are giving away production.

  97. blake December 10th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    Chip, that makes sense but I’d make 100% sure that a deal involving Joba for Halladay is out of the question first before I did that. If they’ve decied that joba is a reliever then Saunders is a pretty good pitcher but I’d shop him around to other teams first..

  98. gregori December 10th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    See him as right-handed outfielder off the bench.
    yanks should make the gardner trade with kc.
    ask for dejesus in return.
    he’s a lefty, good defense lt fielder.
    a new yorker, brooklyn.
    great 3 yr splits as he hits righty & lefty the same @ .280.
    best of all he is a CLUTCH player as his 3 yr splits for runners on base, scoring position & 2 outs scoring position are all over .325.
    kc would look to get rid of him as he’ll make @ 4,000,000 in 2010.

  99. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    Simon

    AVG is the least important stat.

  100. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    The Yankees aren’t making a 3 way deal to allow the Angels to get Halladay.

    Joba for Saunders?

    Do you bother to think before you post?

  101. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    Not sure how I would feel about the Saunders thing but having a LHP in YS is always an advantage.

  102. squidward December 10th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    Chip:

    What you (or Sherman) are suggesting is that the Yankees are trading Joba for Saunders. How would that make sense…for the Yankees?

  103. vin December 10th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    “What does Sherman’s blurb mean exactly? That the Yankees will flip Joba for Halladay with a third team supplying the CF and SS prospect?”

    Halladay to Angels for
    Aybar, prospect(s), Saunders to Jays… then
    Saunders to Yanks for
    Joba to Jays.

    No way that should happen for Yanks.
    I don’t even like the proposed deal (2 team) for the Jays.
    Saunders doesn’t impress me much, and I’m not big on Aybar.

  104. Matt December 10th, 2009 at 11:58 am

    Jamie Hoffman. With the exception of size, Shelley Duncan he’s not.
    Hoffman just may stick all year. More useful than Gardner.

  105. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 11:58 am

    SJ44

    If you are referencing my post, my point was that you always try to upgrade.

  106. Patrick from CT December 10th, 2009 at 11:59 am

    Mike Cameron is not much better than Melky and will cost 3 times as much. I wouldn’t sign him over keeping Melky.

  107. sab December 10th, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    braeden
    December 10th, 2009 at 11:37 am
    I’m really concerned if Damon has to lower his asking requirements,he’s bound to be disgruntled.Will he perform,or be a drag,because he didn’t get what he wanted? I like Johnny a lot,he needs to pull an Alex and jump ship(Boras)
    ———————————————————–

    The only person Damon should be mad at is Boras for selling him on the idea that he could get 3+ years at 13 million or more..

    I think Boras really needs to adjust his thinking at this point (the it only takes 1 dumb team/gm) – at least with his second tier players – heck he screwed varitek last year and to an extent even Manny didn’t get what boras promised him – he basically got what he was going to get with the redsox – and had to sweat it out until just about spring training last year..

    this year damon is in that situation and who really is going to pay holliday 100 million? (well i guess the redsox will if Jason Bay signs with someone else – which is what boras is praying will happen which then means he essentially has a blank check from the redsox if they want to compete this year)

  108. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    But Granderson is well above average in CF so Melky in LF balances that out fine. Again with your logic Melky in center and Grandy in left would be fine but the other way around is not.

  109. UpState December 10th, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    Simon
    December 10th, 2009 at 11:41 am

    “…Melky may not be great at anything, but he’s solid all around. He’s young and athletic and cheap and he’s NOT going anywhere…”
    ——————————

    AND…..(drum roll)…..no one else wants him !!!

  110. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    Does anyone have link to Sherman’s Joba/Saunders/Halladay insanity?

  111. gregori December 10th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    see Teddy Vercetti had the same idea regarding dejesus.
    but i would move cabrera to right (where he belongs) and move swisher to DH.
    that way yanks could use the DH money for another pitcher.
    btw dejesus 3 yr on base % is .357. just about up to gene michael’s .360 benchmark.
    but to me the intangibles excite me a clutch hitting new york native.

  112. Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    It seems obvious from their respective usage last year that the Yanks rate Melky higher than Gardner. The argument for Gardner is pointless – the Yanks aren’t trading Melky and they aren’t jumping Gardner over him.

    Hoffman is just a Rule 5 pick-up. Counting on him for any kind of role is WAY premature.

  113. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    A league average LF has a significantly higher SLG than a league average CF. Melky falls a little short in CF and a lot short in LF. Ideally, you want at least league average production everywhere. Otherwise you are giving away production.

    Rich – generally that’s true but it assumes that you have league average offensive production at the rest of the spots in the lineup. The Yankees get significantly more than that out of 2b, C, 3b, 1b, and now CF which means they can live with lower production from another spot.

    Melky’s the same 9th place hitter whether he’s in LF, RF, or CF.

  114. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    “But Granderson is well above average in CF so Melky in LF balances that out fine. Again with your logic Melky in center and Grandy in left would be fine but the other way around is not.”

    So what? It’s about efficiency. You try to have the best players possible at each position. Could they live with Melky in LF? Yes. But why shouldn’t they try to improve?

  115. balistes December 10th, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    if hoffman makes the team coming out of spring training, i’ll become a nun.

  116. blake December 10th, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    Cowherd is talking about halladay

  117. Dude December 10th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    I am not sure why all the Melky bashing. Is he the only problem (problem?)the Yankees have ?

  118. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    Swisher is great at hitting for power+
    Swisher is great at getting on base+
    Swisher is great at working pitchers+
    Swisher is good at playing RF+

    Swisher does not hit for a high AVG+

    =

    Swisher sucks.

  119. Tom in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    “Increasing expectation around #MLB is that the #Yankees will eventually re-sign Hideki Matsui. Could take until January.”

    http://twitter.com/KenDavidoff

  120. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    Rich,

    it’s a blurb in Sherman’s blog the he (Sherman) speculates that the Yankees could find a partner for a third team deal of their own with Toronto for Doc, with Joba as bait.

    He isn’t talking about trading Joba for Joe Saunders.

  121. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    What you (or Sherman) are suggesting is that the Yankees are trading Joba for Saunders. How would that make sense…for the Yankees?

    For the record I don’t agree with Sherman’s thinking, but if I was trying to justify it the only way I can is by assuming that if the Yankees were to do this (which I don’t think they will) then it’s because they view Joba as a relief pitcher not a starter.

  122. cano he didnt December 10th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    Simon, batting avg. isnt everything. Last year Swish scored more runs, 16 more HRs, more RBIs, a ton more walks, much better OBP and SLG.

  123. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    Yeah Rich,

    I absolutely agree they should try to upgrade. I was pushing for Cameron the other day. My point was more directed to the people that were saying it is absolutely not an option for Melky to play LF and it would be awful. If there is no money in the budget to upgrade LF tho IMO Melky is fine.

  124. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    Chip,

    Not necessarily. As I said in another post. They can live with Melky in LF, but the goal is to be at least league average at every position.

    He will also make too much money in relative terms.

  125. Erin December 10th, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Tom in NJ
    December 10th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
    “Increasing expectation around #MLB is that the #Yankees will eventually re-sign Hideki Matsui. Could take until January.”

    http://twitter.com/KenDavidoff

    ***************

    :D
    Tom, you seriously just made my morning!!

  126. reacher December 10th, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Looks like either Melky or Gardy will go irrespective of whether Damon re-signs…not that Hoffman will on the 25, but will be at Scranton readily available. Cash has another move or two up his sleeve, whether for Doc, and/or a corner outfielder (not necessarily named Damon)….perhaps DeRosa who gives them great flexibility. Damon better stop drinking the Boras cool-aid, and gather his wits as to what reality is, or his days in pinstripes will be history. But then again, he did say “he was an Idiot”.

  127. champ809 December 10th, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Joel Sherman is up late smoking the funny stuff if he thinks the Yanks are flipping Saunders straight up for Joba

  128. vin December 10th, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    “I agree, vin. However, it seems to be becoming clearer that the Yankees may not see Joba as a high impact starter anymore. His future may just be in the ‘pen.”

    Let’s hope that’s not the case. The guy made huge strides last year simply by staying healthy and making 30+ starts. He was awful for 1/2 those starts, but he still showed that (at times) he could dominate 2 and 3 times through the lineup. Even good relievers can’t do that.

    I know I’m preaching to the choir, though.

  129. Joe Vogel December 10th, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    Chip
    Rich – generally that’s true but it assumes that you have league average offensive production at the rest of the spots in the lineup. The Yankees get significantly more than that out of 2b, C, 3b, 1b, and now CF which means they can live with lower production from another spot.

    Melky’s the same 9th place hitter whether he’s in LF, RF, or CF.

    The last statement is true, but not correctly applied. It is much easier to find a corner OF who can offensively outperform Melky than it is a CF (due to the difficulty and importance of the defensive position). If Melky is in LF, the Yankees would be sacrificing a legitimate bat at the expense of upgrading slightly on defense at the second-least important defensive position on the diamond (ahead of only 1B).

  130. GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    From MLB-Rumors-R-Us and Ken Davidoff (for what it’s worth.)

    Twitter madness…

    •Surprisingly, Ken Davidoff of Newsday writes of an “increasing expectation around MLB” that the Yankees will eventually re-sign Hideki Matsui.

    ————————————————————

    Of course, people are saying that Damon is likely, too. My guess is that if NYY offers both players a deal, they’ll take the first one that accepts.

  131. CR9 December 10th, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    “Brandon Morrow could be a starting point, but who else would the Ms have to include to pull off a Gonzalez deal?”

    Via Tim Dierkes of MLBTR

    I dont know Tim? But who do the Red Sox have to pull off a deal.

    From all of Tim’s previous discussion regarding Gonzalez to the Sox, Tim seems to think that the Red Sox have what it takes.

  132. blake December 10th, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    Jobas mentality, personality, conditioning, and stuff in general are more suited for the bullpen. If it is decided that he’s a reliever his value will plummet so I would rather move him while some people still think he can start than later when nobody does.

  133. stanzy December 10th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    Andy Stankiewicz was a gamer too! (I loved that guy.)

  134. GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    Tom in NJ, you need to get to work and quit stealing my posts. Just because you’re quicker and can type.

  135. GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    It doesn’t matter how the Yankees view Chamberlain….it only matters how the other team views Chamberlain.

  136. ADam December 10th, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    If this makes anyone obsolete/expendable its Juan Miranda. Jamie makes it tough for the yanks to add Miranda to the big club, both guys have power.. buf Hoffman can play OF… not sure if Maranda could play in the OF or not

  137. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    “Increasing expectation around #MLB is that the #Yankees will eventually re-sign Hideki Matsui. Could take until January.”

    I think this could be a leak designed to get someone else to make a decision.

  138. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    Rich in NJ
    December 10th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
    Chip,

    Not necessarily. As I said in another post. They can live with Melky in LF, but the goal is to be at least league average at every position.

    He will also make too much money in relative terms.
    ————–

    Oh I completely agree with all of that. My thoughts on it though is that I think the Yankees will add one more bat either for OF or DH.

    If it’s a DH type (Matsui) then the OF will be Melky, Granderson, Swisher; if it’s a legit OF (Cameron) then Swisher will likely move to DH with the OF being (Cameron, Granderson, Melky) because at that point Swisher is a better DH option than say Juan Miranda.

    Either way, Melky ends up in a corner OF spot to open the season. If he produces at 2009 levels, the Yankees can live with it, if he regresses to 2008 levels then the Yankees either move Swisher out from DH and play Miranda there (or hope Montero is ready) or recall Gardner to play LF (or try Hoffmann out there) depending on where the Yankees go with that signing.

  139. Jeff NJ December 10th, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    Sounds like this guy is a Shelley Duncan type except he can play defense and has speed. Ok well at least facially he looks like Duncan. He makes a good caddy for Granderson, especially if Damon isn’t resigned. I like the pickup, especially for Bruney. Although I guess that leaves 2 holes in the pen.

  140. blake December 10th, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    GB7, that’s true but what is other teams view of Joba. For all we know many of them already consider him a reliever after seeing the playoffs last year.

  141. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 10th, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    Wave Your Hat
    December 10th, 2009 at 11:49 am
    Patrick-
    If you get Cameron and Matsui, the plan has to be that you intend to sit CG against lefties a lot, right? I guess you like BG more than I do – I don’t think he’ll be that effective playing primarily against lefties.
    Melky IMO fills the 4th OF/part-time LF role better than BG, plus I don’t think Melky will fetch that much in a trade. If you want to keep BG in that situation fine, you just send Hoffman back to LA. I suspect that’s what the Yanks end up doing anyway.
    =============

    Here’s the problem with Melky as a 4th OF.

    He can thrive as a defensive replacement, but he’s not going to be all that effective coming off the bench to hit.

    Here’s why: contrary to many posts on this site, Melky is a hitter in development. He’s not by any means a finished product/perennial AAA guy who has hit his ceiling.

    He is also a switch hitter – they take longer to develop, and Melky has had to do his developing in the majors off a virtually untutored bat, until Kevin Long paid attention to him.

    Just last season, he began to emerge as a guy who could be effective, with a bit of pop, from both sides of the plate. This, in fact, is why he won back his job – not because Brett Gardner hurt his thumb.

    He’s not a professional replacement guy who will be able to come in when a pitcher turns a batter around – he is still developing. I think his ceiling is higher than most people on here do.

    I saw GB7′s projections for him and I don’t think they are a reach at all. If he gets dealt and plays every day somewhere next year, I’d expect a breakout year for his bat.

    I don’t think he would serve the Yankees well as a bench player, unless they’re shooting low and want him strictly as a versatile defensive OF.

    For his sake, if that’s to be his role, I hope he gets dealt. He has some hitting talent to be mined and will spend next season at age 25 until August.

  142. Tom in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    Sorry GB.

    You’re right I should be working. However, today is “office hours” day. It’s a day where I sit in my office waiting for the same 6 students give me the same 6 excuses about why they can’t finish a paper on time.

  143. G. Love December 10th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    Hoffman can’t get stashed in AAA.

    When you pick up a Rule V the only way you keep him is if he stays on the 25 man roster (or DL). If the Yankees want to send him to AAA, they would have to offer him back to the Dodgers first or work out a deal with them I think.

    If he sticks, he’s on the roster.

    This definitely ups the ante for Melky and Gardner in the spring if they are both there.

    Melky should get a raise in arbitration this year if I’m correct so I wonder if his price tag is getting too pricey for the Yankees.

    That said, Melky can be carried as a corner OF’er next season but it’s not an ideal situation. Having Granderson in CF with his offense makes up for the offensive black hole Melky would be compared to other corner OF’er’s in the league so you could theoretically go with him in that role if Damon or Matsui were re-signed to DH.

    Still, the best Yankee offense for me has an OF of Damon, Granderson and Swisher with Matsui as primary DH.

    The only thing starting Melky in LF does is improve defense. It hurts the offense if you have all those players back on the club.

    And please don’t tell me it hurts in the speed department. Damon is still fast enough to cover LF and run the bases as well as Melky and no team employs a fast agile DH since your DH doesn’t need to have those qualities.

  144. rconn23 December 10th, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    Mike Cameron is a much better defender – even at age 36- than Melky Cabrera. And yes, he is a much better hitter as well.

    Granderson’s maximum value to the Yankees is as a centerfielder. It gives the team potential 30-35 home run pop at a position where most teams lack for offense.

    He’s also an above average defender in CF.

    Cashman said last night he considers Granderson their eveyday CF, and why wouldn’t he?

    Putting Melky Cabrera in LF makes no sense. It puts a below average bat at a corner outfield spot.

    The best case for the Yankees would be to use Cabrera as their fourth outfielder – a role he’s certainly qualified for, or to trade him while he still has value.

  145. Joe Vogel December 10th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
    Here’s why: contrary to many posts on this site, Melky is a hitter in development. He’s not by any means a finished product/perennial AAA guy who has hit his ceiling.

    He is also a switch hitter – they take longer to develop, and Melky has had to do his developing in the majors off a virtually untutored bat, until Kevin Long paid attention to him.

    Wishful thinking. Melky’s best chance to break thru the glass ceiling that he has already reached is to start PED’s now and perhaps his career will take off like Brady Anderson’s and Steve Finley’s.

  146. Betsy -high on pie December 10th, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    Yeah, a link (or better, the blurb) to Sherman’s idea?

    That’s crazy. If the Yankees wanted to trade Joba, they would just trade him for Halladay

    I’m not a Gardner fan at all….if the Yankees trade him for a useful piece, I’m all for it.

  147. Ralph Kramden December 10th, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    Mets just signed FA pitcher Geoff Sarnataro. About time they did something!

  148. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Randy (Camden County)

    Welcome back, Jim. The deal the Tigers made seems to hinge upon one’s opinion of Austin Jackson. I’ve seen a lot of talk that he’s an overhyped Yankee who’s likely a 4th OF; I’ve seen others suggesting he could or should be Granderson himself in a few years. What’s your take? Thank you.

    Jim Callis (2:08 PM)

    I’m not a huge fan. I like Jackson some but I think his tools outstrip his skills, and I see him maxing out more as a solid regular than any kind of star. I thought the Yankees did a nice job of selling high on Kennedy, Jackson and Coke. I understood the Tigers were trying to shed some salary and liked the arms they got from Arizona. But I’m not sure why the Diamondbacks traded two young pitchers to get Edwin Jackson and Kennedy. They must have a lot more faith in Kennedy than I do.

  149. GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Tom in NJ
    December 10th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
    Sorry GB.

    You’re right I should be working. However, today is “office hours” day. It’s a day where I sit in my office waiting for the same 6 students give me the same 6 excuses about why they can’t finish a paper on time.

    ————————————————————

    OK, Tom…just don’t let it happen again.

    Hope all is going well in your family.

  150. Ed H. December 10th, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    SJ44,

    What’s your take on the Gardner/Melky situation vis a vis the 2010 roster?

    I think that it’s very unlikely that Gardner is not on the team. His speed is a unique skill on the Yankees and Girardi loves having him available as a weapon off the bench. People forget that he was a rookie last year and still has room to improve his abilities.

  151. L to the 2nd December 10th, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    Joba for Saunders? In a 3 way deal?

    If remotely true, completely idiotic.

    If I were Cashman, I’d hang up the phone.

    Next.

  152. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    This falls under the myriad of options the Yankees have….

    They sign Damon for one year, 9 million….

    They bring Matsui back for one year, 6-7 million. Which, BTW, is all he’s getting on the open market as a DH.

    At that point, they probably deal Melky because the 3+ million he will get in his arbitration will go toward adding another arm.

    If Damon turns down the deal, insert Cameron and the above scenario still takes place.

    In that scenario though, Granderson probably moves to LF with Cameron in CF.

  153. blake December 10th, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    Chip, I saw that chat yesterday. Most objective analysis I’ve read thinks that Ajax’s ceiling is granderson or less. which makes me feel pretty good about the trade.

  154. DaSaint007 December 10th, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    One of the regulars here has been adamant that Juan Miranda was going to be the DH. It was a no-doubter. ;-)

  155. Mike RI December 10th, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    SJ44-

    Damon and Cameron will require at least 2 years of service. No way do they sign a one year deal. espically not Damon.

  156. G. Love December 10th, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    Please God let that report be true about Seattle trying to trade for Adrian Gonzales.

    I would love nothing more than to see him dealt to any other team than Boston and have to see them tell their fanbase why they didn’t get the guy or weren’t able to match the talent offered.

    The report said Seattle opened the offer with Morrow.

    Is Morrow better regarded than Bucholtz? I hope he is because at the very least it raises the price the Red Sox would have to pay if they were going all in for Gonzales.

    And that Lowell deal makes me sick.

    If the Yankees ever did that kind of deal where they took a beloved veteran who helped win two titles and basically dumped him off like that we’d be roundly criticized by the rest of the league.

    I hope free agents and guys like Doc pay attention to how Boston treats their own.

    What stinks even more is that Lowell has a no trade clause. The Red Sox leaked the deal in the media before even approaching Lowell about it so now all the pressure is on him to waive his NTC or else the Boston fans will lash out at him all season.

    I think that when a player has a no trade, there should be a rule that any potential deal can’t be leaked out like this.

    They are real scum up in Beantown.

    I hope Lowell uses his No Trade and screws them.

  157. Will December 10th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    This information is excellent. Great job asking the right questions to get it. Best reporting I’ve read in a while.

  158. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    Ed,

    I think they would keep Gardner over Melky because of speed and financial control. He’s a better bench option than Melky if Melky is slated for being a bench player.

    That of course depends on a variety of scenarios. One being, Hoffman making the team as well as the examples I posted earlier.

  159. CR9 December 10th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    blake
    While Callis’ view on Jackson may be right, it is anything but objective. This guy is the biggest Red Sox stinksniffer there is. He has the audacity to rip Jackson and Kennedy, but call Casey Kelly a future Hall of Famer.

  160. L to the 2nd December 10th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    SJ – I agree with the scenario except I actually see the NYY offering 2 years for Damon.

    They could probably flip Melky in a package for either a back-of-the-rotation guy or middle reliever.

    Or just sign Ben Sheets & Gardner spends the beginning of the year in AAA

  161. vin December 10th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    “Ok well at least facially he looks like Duncan. ”

    I think he looks a lot like Brett Tomko.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....yerId=3658

  162. Jeff NJ December 10th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    I don’t see why they would have any interest in Matsui. It’s time to move on. Damon should be signed as the primary DH who could slide into LF when Posada DH’s. Hoffman is a pretty useful part too. If Matsui is signed, I think you need to trade Melky or Swisher and I do not want to do that.

  163. NYYROC December 10th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    I’m in the minority, but short of getting Doc or Lackey, I’d like to see the NYY go with Joba and Hughes in the 2010 rotation. I see no adavantage to bringing in the mid-level pitchers and reclamation projects that many want to see. A lot of fans want Ben Sheets, he hasn’t pitched in over a year. Is he really a better option than Joba or PH? Look how much SP costs these days, whether in players, dollars or both. It borders on the ridiculous. Many fans clamor for Josh Johnson, Felix etc., well the NYY could very well have one of their own in Joba or PH. If Felix etc. came up with the NYY they’d be in the pen or traded before being given a fair opportunity. They became who they are by getting the chance to develop. In 2007 Moose talked about the young NYY pitchers and said, ” We can talk to them, teach them and give them all kinds of advice but at some point you have to just let them go out and pitch.(paraphrasing. This isn’t 2008, while both Joba and Phil have struggled they have also both shown that they can get ML hitters out. I think 2009 was a great experience for both of them. They learned what it takes to win from the veterans, they got experience on the biggest stage and they learned that they have to produce or the team will move on. 2010 will be a big year for Joba and Phil. Joba needs to show up in shape, show improvement and more consistency. Phil needs to show he can take the ball every 5th day and consistently give the team a chance to win. I have read where Cashman gives the team a couple of months and by the end of May evaluates what the team will need the rest of the way. I say give Joba and Phil until June to show what they can do. If they aren’t getting the job done, the mid-level, back end pitchesr will still be availble. But I do think Joba and Phil will come through.

  164. Betsy -high on pie December 10th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    Buster_ESPN Ex-Padres GM Kevin Towers met with teams at the Winter Meetings, but is expected to take a job with the #Yankees.[/quote]

  165. pat December 10th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    The team is the sum of its parts.

    When the infield and catcher are as above average offensively as the Yankees are, you can handle a little less offense from an outfielder as long as they have a positive role on the team.

  166. David December 10th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    I still think the Yanks will sign Damon or Matsui or both. So, if Hoffman makes the team, there may be no room for Melky or Gardner. So, Gardner gets sent down (or traded) and Melky gets traded.

    I’m not thrilled about this scenario, because I like Melky and Gardner. But, it will only happen if Hoffman shows that he’s better than both of them. Of course, it’s hard to evaluate a player based on spring training, so I hope the Yanks don’t trade both Melky and Gardner.

    If Hoffman can hit slightly below average against lefties, he could earn a starting platoon spot in CF. It wouldn’t take much to beat Granderson’s awful stats against lefties.

    If Hoffman doesn’t stick with the Yanks, they might be able to get something from the Dodgers for returning him or get trade him to another team. I’d be disappointed to see the Yanks give up Bruney for nothing.

  167. rconn23 December 10th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    One thing potentially exciting about Hoffman is that he had a .432 OBP against lefthanded pitching last year – granted that was split between AA and AAA.

    Could be a useful player down the road.

  168. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    Juan Miranda being a DH candidate falls under the catagory of Bubba Crosby being the starting CF.

    In other words, its posturing against the agents they are negotiating with and nothing more.

    Mike,

    Don’t be so sure. Not a lot of teams are throwing out 2 year deals for over 35 players.

    For guys like Cameron and Damon, its also something they have to consider. Do you go to a team with a good bunch of guys and a great chance to win (especially in Damon’s case where he fits in so well and has already made 90+ million dollars in his career), or do you make a money grab for an extra year.

    Going year to year hasn’t hurt Andy Pettitte and guys see that.

    It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

  169. blake December 10th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    CR9, I wasn’t specifically talking about callis, just in general from reading different articles that’s what feeling I get.

    Aren’t all of ESPNs writers red sox fans? I mean they have one chat that is basically for red sox questions

  170. blake December 10th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    CR9, I wasn’t specifically talking about callis, just in general from reading different articles that’s what feeling I get.

    Aren’t all of ESPNs writers red sox fans? I mean they have one chat that is basically for red sox questions

  171. Phil December 10th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    SJ44

    per Miranda, no it doesn’t.

  172. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    One of the interesting things about Kevin Towers is the guy is a pitching genius. He finds arms better than just about anybody in the game.

    Wouldn’t shock me if Cash has been picking his brain all winter about options.

    The other interesting thing is, he turned down the Red Sox offer because he doesn’t like the interaction between Theo, Henry and Lucchino. He feels the Yankees ownership/GM situation is much more stable and productive.

    Another myth (the Red Sox are the model franchise) busted by reality.

  173. Abdababdaserser December 10th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Given the splits that Granderson had his last season on RHP vs LHP, it could be that the Yankees are thinking Hoffman could be used if need be when they face tough lefties.

    Its probably as a stop gap measure that costs very little. It gives some protection if Granderson can’t start hitting LHP better, at least till they figure out someone better for the job.

  174. DaSaint007 December 10th, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    No one is trading Melky AND Gardner.

    Melky is the starting LF – for now.
    Granderson is the full-time CF, and provides proven HR power as does Swisher, the starting RF – for now.

    I could see a situation developing where a move is made to strenghten LF.

    DH: Matsui is more likely to return than Damon.

  175. Joe Vogel December 10th, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    All of this talk regarding short-term fixes in the OF is somewhat interesting, but has anyone contemplated the Yankees’ lack of quality minor league IF’s with high upsides? Realistically, Jeter has 2 more seasons tops at SS (unless they are willing to carry highly degrading defense at a premium defensive position), then he will almost certainly be in LF. Rodriguez will likely be a full-time DH within 3 seasons, and this will probably be Posada’s last season cracking 100 games behind the plate. There are many possible replacements for Posada (Romine, Cervelli as the backup, Montero–although I believe he’ll end up as a corner OF or DH), but few realistic options exist for Jeter and Rodriguez.

  176. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    Phil,

    Yes it does. The Yankees aren’t using Juan Miranda as their DH next year. Its all posturing.

    I’m no Jim Callis fan. He trashed my nephew enough last year during the draft only to look like a jerk on draft night.

    However, his comments on Jackson are shared by the majority of the teams in MLB. He’s not as highly rated as Yankee fans want to rate him.

    If he was, the Yankees wouldn’t have traded him.

    He isn’t in Jesus Montero’s league as a propsect. That’s why he wasn’t an untouchable.

  177. m December 10th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    This guy even looks like a Duncan.

    Sounds a lot better than the other guys we’ve drafted. Feels weird having such a high pick in a draft. ;)

    I don’t know, there’s not room for Damon, Matsui, Gardner, Melky, and this -kid- guy. Or is there?

    Melky is good for us, but I still think he’d be the most diffcult to trade. His salary will outpace his value soon.

    And to the people who say that Melky>Swisher, ouch!

  178. UpState December 10th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    sorry – Zach Greinke’s lady

  179. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    SJ44
    December 10th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
    This falls under the myriad of options the Yankees have….

    They sign Damon for one year, 9 million….

    They bring Matsui back for one year, 6-7 million. Which, BTW, is all he’s getting on the open market as a DH.

    At that point, they probably deal Melky because the 3+ million he will get in his arbitration will go toward adding another arm.

    If Damon turns down the deal, insert Cameron and the above scenario still takes place.
    —————————–

    I really do not see the Yankees making two more offensive signings. One, yes, absolutely. But I think that’s it and the rest of the focus is on starting pitching.

  180. Erica - always OPPC December 10th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    ESPN’s Buster Olney heard “the Yankees are in the process of negotiating with Johnny Damon’s camp.” He adds that the Yanks “intend to use market forces to pressure Damon to make a decision quickly.” I’m sure Scott Boras will love that.
    *******

    Book it- Johnny is coming back. For all of the other teams that are supposedly so interesting in MPB Johnny Damon, there has been zero buzz. And Boras is too busy promoting the wunderkund of Matt Holliday. Johnny Damon will be back

  181. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    You aren’t going to have realistic options for Jeter and Rodriquez right now because both guys are many years away from retirement.

    No team has a SS or 3B that’s going to sit for 6 years waiting for his chance to play.

  182. lordbyron December 10th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    Chad – great work as usual.Thanks for the info.

  183. squidward December 10th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    “One of the interesting things about Kevin Towers is the guy is a pitching genius. He finds arms better than just about anybody in the game.”

    I remember the time he found Joakin Soria…….for the Royals.

  184. Mike RI December 10th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    Book it- Johnny is coming back. For all of the other teams that are supposedly so interesting in MPB Johnny Damon, there has been zero buzz. And Boras is too busy promoting the wunderkund of Matt Holliday. Johnny Damon will be back

    - Can’t wait. Because i’m so sick of the Mike Cameron talk

  185. m December 10th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    Signing Matsui to DH exclusively would allow us to fill in LF with a younger, athletic OF who might not have the offensive skillset of Damon.

  186. m December 10th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    Can’t wait to see the winter report cards. So far the Yankees are killing the curve!

  187. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    Nobody in baseball has built bullpens better than Towers. Especially since he is given next to no money during his time in SD.

    He also has the reputation around the game of being able to find great arms for rotations. Can’t always sign them because he wasn’t given the funds to do so.

    However, his eye for pitching is second to none in the game.

    He comes to the Yankees, its the equivalent of signing another quality FA. He makes the organization better.

  188. Patrick from CT December 10th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    I think and hope the Yankees sign Damon to be the DH/LF and keep Melky to be the 3rd/4th outfielder.
    Regardless of this rule 5 guy making the team, I see Gardy back in AAA unless someone gets hurt or realy stinks for the first 2 months of the season. I think the Yankees will have a supersub untility guy that can play both infield and outfield so they don’t carry 5 pure outfielders.
    If Damon does come back, I think the Yankees need a RH bat with pop off the bench.

  189. David December 10th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    Yeah. Excellent work, Chad.

  190. Joe Vogel December 10th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    SJ44,
    I agree that they are many years from retirement. However, defensively, they will not be at SS and 3B for more than 2-3 more seasons (unless the Yankees want to resemble something closer to the 2005 Yankees with aging veterans who no longer have the range to adequately play their positions. Diminishing range is what is going to move Jeter to LF and Rodriguez to DH, sooner than later (and sooner than most Yankee fans will want/or care to admit).
    You move sooner than later or you end up the ’88 Cowboys.

  191. charlestonchew December 10th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    SJ44

    “I think they would keep Gardner over Melky because of speed and financial control. He’s a better bench option than Melky if Melky is slated for being a bench player.
    That of course depends on a variety of scenarios. One being, Hoffman making the team as well as the examples I posted earlier.”

    That’s true that Melky is a worse option off the bench than Gardner, mainly because of speed. But what if an outfielder goes down? is injured? Melky becomes infinitely more valuable then.

    The team needs to sign Matsui. Damon won’t do well as a DH, nor will Swisher.

    Jeter SS
    Granderson CF
    Teixeira 1B
    ARod 3B
    Matsui DH
    Posada C
    Cano 2B
    Swisher RF
    Cabrera LF

    That’s the best lineup in baseball even with Cabrera in LF.

  192. G. Love December 10th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    I still hope we bring both Damon and Matsui back at team friendly deals.

    I love both of those guys and what they bring to this team and I don’t feel next year they are going to be shells of the players they just were.

    Having Damon and Matsui in the lineup with the addition of Granderson would make this lineup unbelievable.

  193. Mike RI December 10th, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    SJ44-

    Do you see the Yankees signing another starting pitcher ? Sounded like Cashman was wanted another arm last night on MLBTV.

  194. DaSaint007 December 10th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    I can’t see Damon taking a 1 year deal. He wants to get to 3000 hits. I can’t see the Yankees offering a 2 year deal. There are plenty of teams that could use Damon for 2 or 3 years. The White Sox are one of them.

    I can see Matsui taking a 1 year deal to DH and rest his knees.

  195. Uncle Ellsworth (content to be on the Group W bench) December 10th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    Wow there is actually a “Jamie Hoffmann s&*cks” blog
    he was not too popular in LA.

  196. Ed H. December 10th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    SJ,

    Thanks. Do the Yanks see Gardner as a “work in progress,” especially re his hitting?

  197. Phil December 10th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    SJ 44,

    Miranda was the plan for DH before they got their budget, and if they got a certain LF who would be costly. Instead, they got more budget than they anticipated and then were able to get the cost controlled Granderson, so the plan may have changed. But as of their org meetings, they were gonna use Miranda as the DH to save money and pursue a costly LF. Any my source for that is bulletproof. Just like 2 years ago when I told we were would not trade Phil Hughes for Santana.

  198. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    I think they will sign another starter. It depends on how they fill LF and DH.

    If they bring back Matsui and Damon at team friendly deals, I think Melky gets dealt because his money will toward an arm.

    For example, Rich Harden has set the bar for rehab starters in this market. Ben Sheets isn’t getting less than a 7.5 base for next year. You can book that.

    Meaning, if the Yankees brought back Damon and Matsui at team friendly deals, they have to free up money to sign Sheets.

    Trading Melky does so.

    The incentives? Cash will talk around the incentives with Hal. That won’t be an issue.

    Base salary is the issue.

    If they are to add another arm, and bring back both Damon and Matsui (or Cameron and Matsui for that matter), somebody has to go and Melky may be the odd guy out.

  199. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 10th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    Has anyone here actually seen Jamie Hoffman play?

  200. ray (sox fan) December 10th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    “If the Yankees ever did that kind of deal where they took a beloved veteran who helped win two titles and basically dumped him off like that we’d be roundly criticized by the rest of the league.”

    ________________________________________________________

    I will admit that I am disappointed in the Sox trading Mike Lowell, but Lowell was a Florida Marlin in 2004. He probably didn’t help the Sox too much for that title. :)

  201. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    Phil,

    I know the original plan was to see if they can get Miranda AB’s at DH and perhaps find a RH guy for the bench to spell him against certain lefties.

    I think the Granderson deal changes that because they have money to work with to upgrade LF/DH.

    If they went the Holliday route (which they aren’t) then Miranda was a more viable option at DH.

    Now? Don’t see it because I see a scenario in which the Yankees will sign Damon or Cameron and Matsui to fill out the lineup.

    If they trade Melky, which I believe they will if the above occurs, they will then add another arm to the back end of the rotation.

  202. GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    Joe Vogel
    December 10th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
    All of this talk regarding short-term fixes in the OF is somewhat interesting, but has anyone contemplated the Yankees’ lack of quality minor league IF’s with high upsides? Realistically, Jeter has 2 more seasons tops at SS (unless they are willing to carry highly degrading defense at a premium defensive position), then he will almost certainly be in LF. Rodriguez will likely be a full-time DH within 3 seasons, and this will probably be Posada’s last season cracking 100 games behind the plate. There are many possible replacements for Posada (Romine, Cervelli as the backup, Montero–although I believe he’ll end up as a corner OF or DH), but few realistic options exist for Jeter and Rodriguez.

    ————————————————————

    Montero does not have the footspeed to play in the outfield full-time. He could possibly fill in on occassion with a small field, but, he’s not likely to be a full time outfielder.

  203. Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Melky is a better hitter than Gardner.

    The Yanks rate Melky over Gardner – last year shows that.

    If the Yanks sign another outfielder, and then one of the starting outfielders gets hurt, you want Melky to fill in, not Gardner.

    The Yanks aren’t going to get anything useful if they trade Melky (or Gardner, for that matter).

    If one of Melky or Gardner has to go, it will be Gardner. That’s the way I see it, at least.

  204. wallypip December 10th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    I think the Yankees can trade Melky for a legitimate league average LF. Very simply, Melky’s CF tools would be more valuable to a team that needs a CF and .800 OPS fielders grow on trees. I have no problem with Melky staying on as the fourth outfielder if that’s how the chips fall, but there is no way the Yankees go into 2010 without upgrading LF.

  205. wallypip December 10th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    meant to say, .800 OPS LEFTfielders grow on trees.

  206. DaSaint007 December 10th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    We all know that sources can be suspect or plans change, so we won’t hold that aginst you. Even though a DH coming out of the minors seemed iffy at best. Regardless, he may still be the DH, or are you saying that Miranda is out as DH?

    Anyway, I’d like to know if we’re going to have to address LF or are we going to battle with:

    LF: Melky
    CF: Granderson
    RF: Swisher
    OF: Gardner
    OF: Hoffmann

    It’s a pretty bold move to intentionally try to get the Rule 5 #1 pick and then use it on a spare outfielder unless you really believed in him. Bruney could have been traded to any number of teams needing a hard-throwing righty pitcher who has closer potential AND was affordable. We could have gotten back major-league talent or minor-league talent, but instead we opted for the team with the #1 Rule-5 pick. Why?

    That is what I’d like the source to tell.

  207. GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    ray (sox fan)
    December 10th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
    “If the Yankees ever did that kind of deal where they took a beloved veteran who helped win two titles and basically dumped him off like that we’d be roundly criticized by the rest of the league.”

    ________________________________________________________

    I will admit that I am disappointed in the Sox trading Mike Lowell, but Lowell was a Florida Marlin in 2004. He probably didn’t help the Sox too much for that title.

    ————————————————————

    He didn’t strikeout with the bases loaded and the game on the line and he didn’t make a key error for Boston, so, he really did contribute….sort of.

    The fact that he played for Florida is just white noise.

  208. Betsy -high on pie December 10th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    Francesca needs to get off his Halladay to the Mets deal. I can’t imagine the Mets having enough top minor leaguers to get this guy…..

  209. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    Wave,

    It has nothing to do with getting something useful back in return. It has to do with money.

    Melky is arbitration eligible. The 3+ million he were to get this year would go toward the pitcher they would bring in.

    Gardner is still under financial control of the team, making him less likely to be dealt for financial reasons.

  210. Betsy -high on pie December 10th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    LOL there he goes – speaking for the Jays and insisting they won’t deal them in the division. Yes, the Yankees are going to be very quiet except for Damon – the great Francesca has spoken (we will not get any pitching).

  211. m December 10th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    WYH,

    Correct on all points, but Gardner has added value because he’ll be cheap for years. Melky will make more and more each year. If he’s pushed to the bench because they sign a LF, it won’t make sense to be paying him $3-4M this year and whatever it is above that next year. I think SJ has it right, if Matsui comes back and Damon is your primary LF, then Melky becomes an expensive bench player. Now you can argue for moving Swisher, but he’s a good player (better than Melky) and we’ll likely have to eat some of Swisher’s salary in order to facilitate a trade.

  212. Joe Vogel December 10th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    GreenBeret7
    Montero does not have the footspeed to play in the outfield full-time. He could possibly fill in on occassion with a small field, but, he’s not likely to be a full time outfielder.

    Many big bats have been hid in LF (1B being the most obvious other place, not likely with Tex aboard). Montero as a catcher can only be allowed to go so far. If he is Piazza-ish behind the plate, better start finding another spot now.

  213. Noreaster December 10th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    There are two ways to evaluate Melky and Gardner. 1) How they help in the regular season 2) How they help in the post season. For (1) I can see where people would pick Melky over Gardner, but other players will get us to the post season so I discount this line of discussion. For (2) Gardner is a weapon late in games in the post season, there is no way the Yankees should trade that because 1 run can turn around a series. So I would stick with Gardner if I had to make a choice.

  214. GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    As far as Hoffman goes, I’ll hold any thoughts on him until I see him play and if he can actually make the team in spring training.

  215. Patrick the Prospect Hugger December 10th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    Wave,

    you are probably right about Melky/Gardner, I just find it hard to give up on Gardner’s speed and fielding. And he does show flairs of brilliance at the plate.

  216. Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    SJ-

    I’m doubtful Melky gets $3MM. $2MM tops seems more likely to me. I don’t think a contract at that level will force the Yanks to move him, Melky’s too useful as a switch hitting 4th outfielder. And in my theory, he’ll get the ABs when Granderson sits against the lefties. Gardner isn’t going to be that guy. (And I doubt Hoffman will be either.)

  217. Phil December 10th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    SJ 44,

    I definitely think getting price fixed Granderson allowed them to get a LF and a DH if the prices are right. But, the original Miranda rumor wasn’t posturing, that’s all I was saying. He and Melky may be placeholders now, and I think they are, but Miranda was viable a few weeks ago. And I believe you are correct on the mix, either Damon and Matsui or Cameron and Matsui. Though, I think they also will be patient and see if any bargains come their way.

  218. Tom in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    Gb, were all doing well, thanks for asking.

    More importantly, how are you doing? I hope the news is good.

  219. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    Only problem with Francesa’s theory is, Halladay has told the Jays he would not go to the Mets.

    That’s what happens when you don’t do your homework as a talk show host. It bites you in the butt.

  220. Betsy -high on pie December 10th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    Francesca saying the Mets are readying an offer for Bay……

  221. UpState December 10th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    What other ML team honestly needs to upgrade theie Centerfield position ???

  222. Betsy -high on pie December 10th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Did he, SJ? I didn’t think he’d go there, but I never heard anything official. Mike is trying to beat the drum for Doc like he did for Piazza. I forsee a day full of Mets fans calling in begging for Doc.

  223. m December 10th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    I don’t think that Granderson’s going to do much platooning. But if he did, then Hoffman would be an option (assuming he makes and stays on the team) because he hits lefties.

  224. Joe Vogel December 10th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    There is actually a very good chance that Hoffman won’t even make the Yankees and be returned to the Dodgers. It does demonstrate how little regard that the Yankees had left for Bruney as they traded him for a looksee at a 25 y/o situational OF with 24 major league career AB’s that they would have to keep on the big league roster all season in order to keep.

  225. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    Wave,

    Melky made 1.6 this year. He’s getting more than 2 next year if he files arbitration.

    If he doesn’t, he needs to fire his agent! lol

    Phil,

    I agree. I think if Cash can get his LF/DH issues done in the next week, he’s going to sit tight and wait for pitching bargains because prices will drop in January when guys see the money their agents promised them isn’t there.

  226. GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    Joe Vogel
    December 10th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
    GreenBeret7
    Montero does not have the footspeed to play in the outfield full-time. He could possibly fill in on occassion with a small field, but, he’s not likely to be a full time outfielder.

    Many big bats have been hid in LF (1B being the most obvious other place, not likely with Tex aboard). Montero as a catcher can only be allowed to go so far. If he is Piazza-ish behind the plate, better start finding another spot now.

    ————————————————————

    The only real problem with Piazza’s defense was that he couldn’t throw.

    Have you ever seen Montero play? He’s a decent catcher that needs to work on his footwork. Romine is more logical choice to play other positions, along with catching. He has the footspeed to play a corner outfield.

  227. SJ44 December 10th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    The Mets are going to offer Bay. Don’t know what the offer will be but, Francesa is correct.

    Bay will get an offer from the Mets by the end of the week.

  228. Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    “I don’t think that Granderson’s going to do much platooning. But if he did, then Hoffman would be an option (assuming he makes and stays on the team) because he hits lefties.”

    I actually looked up Hoffman’s minor league splits. He hit lefties well in 2009, but his splits in prior years were nothing remarkable. I’m not convinced he’s going to continue to hit lefties that well, especially in the majors. Way too soon to get excited about him, IMO.

  229. Mike RI December 10th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    red sox won’t be thrilled

  230. DaSaint007 December 10th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    Imagine, Red Sox could get outbid by Mets.
    Good job Theo.

  231. Joe Vogel December 10th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    GreenBeret7,

    Romine won’t hit enough to justify playing another position (may not hit enough to be the Yankees catcher–scary poor plate discipline). Montero still isn’t throwing well, but more importantly, he will likely outgrow the position sizewise. How many quality catchers can you name that were 6’4″, 235 lbs. and growing. Think about it.

  232. Jeter2007 December 10th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    not sure about hoffman. guess we need a near-mlb-ready of w/ a rh bat. low ceiling i think. but hey, why not.

    i do really hope that towers comes on board. he’s done a great job w/ the very little he had to work with. sounds like a good person to boot.

    i like how things are shaping up. overpaid a little for pettitte, but that’s fine. some people don’t realize how hard it is to pitch in ny, especially in the postseason. and while pettitte, at times now, posts mediocre numbers, he’s still very much a big-game pitcher, which is extremely valuable to a team like ours.

    let the good times roll.

  233. L to the 2nd December 10th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    Fatcessa is a windbag.

    The Mets have nothing to give TOR for Halladay – unless you’re talking Beltran (whereby you’re taking back Wells), Reyes (whose value is at its lowest point) or Wright.

    The only way this becomes viable is if there’s a repeat of ’08 – the market collapses, everyone else walks away, and the Mets steal him by default.

  234. GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    Tom in NJ
    December 10th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
    Gb, were all doing well, thanks for asking.

    More importantly, how are you doing? I hope the news is good.

    ————————————————————

    I should have answers by noon tomorrow…then, go from there, Tom.

    I’d feel much better if I could find something on this blog to get cranky about. On the good side, though….there’s plenty of time left today and things are looking promising.

  235. tex's friend December 10th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    i thought we outlawed mentioning mike cameron on this blog?

  236. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    Whoever signs Bay is going to regret it big time in a few years and how on earth do the Mets think that Bay can handle the OF in Citifield?

  237. DaSaint007 December 10th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    I’m fine with Pettitte’s contract. He’s a proven Big-Game Pitcher.

    People I start my team with: Pettitte, Jeter, and Rivera. PERIOD.

  238. m December 10th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    I hear more “noise” than not that Montero won’t be able to stick at the catcher.

    But it’s worth keeping him there now. See what happens. It’s not like he has to go to Q School to turn into a 1B/DH. ;)

  239. Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    SJ44-

    Melky’s base was $1.4MM. He did make some more in performance bonuses.

    Melky just didn’t have that great a year. If he gets more than $2MM so be it, but count me as skeptical.

  240. jennifer December 10th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    L to the 2nd

    I heard someone propose a trade of Maine, Luis Castillo, Fernando Martinez for Doc and if they had to Throw in Murphy him too. I about fell of my chair.

  241. Mike RI December 10th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Whoever signs Bay is going to regret it big time in a few years and how on earth do the Mets think that Bay can handle the OF in Citifield?

    - Great Point .

  242. L to the 2nd December 10th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    If the RS lose out on Bay and Holliday (after dumping Lowell) they’re hosed offensively this year.

    Mets are going to have to use some $$$ this winter & go after Lackey & Bay (or Holliday).

    They have few options.

  243. GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    Joe Vogel
    December 10th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
    GreenBeret7,

    Romine won’t hit enough to justify playing another position (may not hit enough to be the Yankees catcher–scary poor plate discipline). Montero still isn’t throwing well, but more importantly, he will likely outgrow the position sizewise. How many quality catchers can you name that were 6?4?, 235 lbs. and growing. Think about it.

    ————————————————————

    That’s what I thought. You haven’t seen either one. Romine’s biggest asset is his bat. He was the FSL MVP, has power, drives in runs and steals bases. He can catch, but, he also needs work. His biggest problem is his hands are a litle slow and stiff.

    Big catchers? Do the names Mauer, Weiter, Fisk, Alomar and Piazza ring a bell? They’re all the same size as Montero.

  244. Joe Vogel December 10th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    It’s not like he has to go to Q School to turn into a 1B/DH.

    I like that. However, DH is probably going to be A-Rod’s domain (How many 37+ y/o 3B can you name that could still field the position well? Especially those with what may be a chronically degenerative hip?)

  245. Tom in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    May the news be good, GB. I’ll be thinking about you.

    I’m sure Randy will be on soon to talk about blunderbusses and Cashman and Bill James soon enough….

  246. L to the 2nd December 10th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    I’m sure Tony Pena can teach Montero a thing or two about catching.

  247. Noreaster December 10th, 2009 at 1:31 pm

    Sox will not have a great offense next year unless they get the 1B from the Patres (doubtful). Their only hope is to land Doc, and I think Theo has already said they are in a bridge year given the mess they have at AA, AAA. They dumped Lowell which may help, but they still have a lot of talent that hits well in Fenway and doesn’t hit well elsewhere.

  248. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    Nobody in baseball has built bullpens better than Towers. Especially since he is given next to no money during his time in SD.

    Pitching in PETCO helps – Scott Linebrink is a good example of this.

    If they bring back Matsui and Damon at team friendly deals, I think Melky gets dealt because his money will toward an arm.

    I really believe they will sign one more offensive player (Damon) and then focus on pitching. Cashman may not be Melky’s biggest fan but I’m willing to bet he would rather spend between 2-3 mil on him than two to three times as much on Matsui.

    If the Yankees wind up with Melky in the 9 spot again this year I’m fine with it regardless of whether he’s in LF or RF.

  249. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 10th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    GreenBeret7
    December 10th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
    Joe Vogel
    December 10th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
    GreenBeret7
    Montero does not have the footspeed to play in the outfield full-time. He could possibly fill in on occassion with a small field, but, he’s not likely to be a full time outfielder.
    Many big bats have been hid in LF (1B being the most obvious other place, not likely with Tex aboard). Montero as a catcher can only be allowed to go so far. If he is Piazza-ish behind the plate, better start finding another spot now.
    ————————————————————
    The only real problem with Piazza’s defense was that he couldn’t throw.
    Have you ever seen Montero play? He’s a decent catcher that needs to work on his footwork. Romine is more logical choice to play other positions, along with catching. He has the footspeed to play a corner outfield.
    ======

    Further, no one hides in LF in Yankee Stadium. Even with the “new” shape of LF in NYS (and it has changed, despite what the Yankees may say), Montero would drown out there.

    What’s more – it would not ever even be under consideration. RF is where slug guys go to hide.

  250. GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    Tom in NJ
    December 10th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
    May the news be good, GB. I’ll be thinking about you.

    I’m sure Randy will be on soon to talk about blunderbusses and Cashman and Bill James soon enough….

    ————————————————————

    Thanks for the kind thoughts, Tom. Much appreciated.

    As we speak (type) I see some good targets that deserve my crankiness.

  251. DaSaint007 December 10th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    If I have the opportunity to trade LF/CF Melky plus pieces (minor-league pieces) to KC for LF DeJesus, I drive him to the airport myself.

  252. Joe Vogel December 10th, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    GreenBeret7
    Fisk was 6’2″, 220 lbs. , Piazza 6’3″, supposedly 197 lbs.(and a 1B posing as a catcher), Mauer is 6’5″ (and 20 pounds less–I would argue the exception to the rule, the best big catcher in history), Alomar 6’5″ 220 lbs. (and injury prone–a serviceable catcher).

    The fact is, the best catchers in history have been predominantly smaller, more squat figures (Berra, Rodriguez, Cochrance, even Posada). The better big catchers usually top out around 6’2″ (Fisk, Carter, Bench, Dickey).

  253. Neckwrecker December 10th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    I can’t BELIEVE that there are people talking about dumping Melky for Mike Cameron. MIKE CAMERON! So we have TWO guys in the outfield who strike out a ton. Between Grandy and Cameron it’s a possible 300K’s in one season from 2 guys. NO WAY do I want to see Mike Cameron in Yankee pinstripes. Melky has PROVED that he can play in NY and I think too many people are giving up on him way to soon. He had some VERY clutch hits last year and doesn’t strike out nearly as much as Grandy or Cameron. The Yankees don’t NEED an All-Star at every position. Melky as the 4th outfielder OR starting LF will work out fine.

    I’d like to see them give Damon 2 years over Matsui. I love Matsui as a hitter, but he is too one-dimensional right now. He can’t field at ALL any more and Damon would give the Yanks the option to play LF in addition to DH. Essentially you would have Damon as the primary DH, but getting 50 or so starts in LF when Posada/A-Rod/Tex get a day at DH. Damon plays his heart out every game, every at-bat and he doesn’t strike out alot. His hitting behind DJ in the #2 slot really helped Jeter out ALOT on the bases this year. I just can’t see Grandy hitting second and leaving Jetes out to dry on the bases all the time. Grandy should be hitting 5th or 6th.

    I like:

    Jeter
    Damon
    Tex
    A-Rod
    Grandy
    Posada
    Cano
    Swisher
    Melky

    Damon is still going to be a good hitter for the next 2 years and can still be a part-time outfielder. Damon>Matsui in terms of roster flexibility.

  254. vin December 10th, 2009 at 1:38 pm

    :arrow:

  255. Chip December 10th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    I’m sure Tony Pena can teach Montero a thing or two about catching.

    I’m sure he can try, but this might just be a physical thing. You can have a 6’7″ 300lb guy with great hands but he’s slow as mud running up hill, it doesn’t matter how well you teach him routes he’s still never going to be a good wide receiver.

  256. Joe Vogel December 10th, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes

    What’s more – it would not ever even be under consideration. RF is where slug guys go to hide.

    Both corner OF spots are where slugs go to hide. LF is usually easier because it demands less of an arm (as evidenced why Damon and his popgun are in LF).

  257. charlestonchew December 10th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    To those who question Montero based on size as a catcher, look at Mauer. 6’5″ and 225 pounds. A bit thinner than Montero, but not much.

    Montero looks like Pudge, but enlarged and a little thinner.

    He’s a beast and if he can catch we’re in for a wonderful treat. He just has to be average to below average to be worth it at catcher. Nobody is praising Victor Martinez’s amazing defense… but he’s good enough offensively to account for that. Montero is hopefully a similar case. Maybe not.

    We’ll see. I wouldn’t trade him for anyone. No matter who it is, I keep Montero.

  258. Joe Vogel December 10th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    charlestonchew

    Montero looks like Pudge, but enlarged and a little thinner.

    Yeah, I tend to confuse Pudge and Montero too except for the 7 inches in height difference.

  259. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 10th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    Joe Vogel
    December 10th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
    Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
    What’s more – it would not ever even be under consideration. RF is where slug guys go to hide.
    Both corner OF spots are where slugs go to hide. LF is usually easier because it demands less of an arm (as evidenced why Damon and his popgun are in LF).
    =====

    I’m talking about Yankee Stadium – not Fenway Park, where the Monster does your running for you.

    Yankee Stadium LF requires a guy who can cover ground, especially into the gap.

    No offense, but comparing Damon’s ability to cover ground – even the hobbled version of him that he is today – to Montero’s precludes serious debate.

    One can’t just ignore BPF.

  260. Joe Vogel December 10th, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    I’m talking about Yankee Stadium – not Fenway Park, where the Monster does your running for you.

    Yankee Stadium LF requires a guy who can cover ground, especially into the gap.

    No offense, but comparing Damon’s ability to cover ground – even the hobbled version of him that he is today – to Montero’s precludes serious debate.

    One can’t just ignore BPF.

    In the context of Yankee Stadium I agree wholeheartedly. In a neutral ballpark, LF is a lower value defensive position due to the arm factor.

  261. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 10th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    Right, but he’d he’d be playing half his games in YS :D.

    If anything, even with his speed he still manages to retain, Damon’s deterioration is thrown into greater relief because he plays a big left field.

  262. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 10th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    Nobody is praising Victor Martinez’s amazing defense… but he’s good enough offensively to account for that. Montero is hopefully a similar case.
    =====

    LOL. We’ve been saying the same thing on another forum; hey, if Victor can do it…

  263. Mark December 10th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    Uhm don’t know if anyone said this already, but this guy looks exactly like Brett Tomko.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5819

  264. JeterJobaCanoFan2010 December 10th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    Dang! Didn’t realize that so many fans dislike Melky. Didn’t Melky just play CF in the WS. And who won? He is younger than Gardner and to me is the better player. I agree with the poster who said that Gardner is AAA.

    Now for the Joba – Hughes debate. I am a very firm believer in Joba as a starter. Now all of a sudden he is considered a reliever because he was in the BP for the playoffs and WS? i can post the article from last summer when Cashman said emphactically that Joba is a starter. No, he won’t go back in the bp. If they had limited his IP early in the season they may not have had to go with 3 pitchers. That last bit about 3 innings, then 4 then 5 was all wrong.

    Hughes was in the bp most of the season and did an excellent job – except for the WS where he just plain choked. Joe went with Joba before he did Hughes. So that makes Joba the better reliever material for 2010? Wrong.. Joba is the better pitcher both in the rotation and bp. You take a starter and put him in the pen, of course, he will do well.

    This Joba v. Hughes is just plain b.s. The Yankees should just let the two pitch in the rotation because isn’t that what the development was for? If they bomb – they bomb. But if they both succeed then the Yankees have 2 HOME GROWN pitchers to dominate for the next decade.

    . . . .NYYROC
    December 10th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
    Please go back and read NYYRoc’s post. It may change your mind.

    GB: Is this enough to make you cranky?? I can try harder.

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