The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Patience is a virtue (except when it isn’t)

Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Dec 10, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The cliche in the headline is one that we’ve all heard many times over. And it’s true – there are some things in life that almost always turn out better if you can contain yourself and wait. I’ve spent much of this week shopping for a new car – always a brutal experience – and, as anyone who has done it before knows, jumping at the first offer is silly; you wait, talk some more, look around some more, negotiate, hem and haw, and if you have enough patience the price usually drops. Patience pays.

Same thing with latkes. With Chanukah starting tomorrow, my wife and I were making latkes (potato pancakes) tonight and the key is to wait before flipping them – do it too soon and they’ll fall apart. If you wait, though, you get golden brown goodness (especially when topped with apple sauce, sour cream or sugar).

In baseball, there’s a fine line between patience and pushing the envelope. One of the things that changed when Brian Cashman got full autonomy as GM in 2005 was a steady (and healthy) decline in the “now-now-now” aspect of the Yankees universe. Cashman’s patience was critical in landing Mark Teixeira a year ago and again this year in working the Tigers for Curtis Granderson. The first conversations on Granderson happened at the GM meetings back in November; by waiting, Cashman got a very (very) fair price for his new center fielder.

Thing is, Cashman also knows when to push. The Yankees haven’t set a firm deadline for Johnny Damon (yet), but they’ve made it clear they’re ready to move on without him – a savvy move that will put Damon, who wants to remain in New York, to the test. No room for patience here.

Same with Andy Pettitte, who marinated for months last year over whether to play again or not. The Yankees worked it out with Pettitte a year ago, but this time they had no interest in waiting around. Either Pettitte was leaving a big hole in the rotation or he was filling it himself; turned out he filled it. Again, no room for patience there.

Now, with the winter meetings done and spring training still a few months away, patience again has value. Is there a Roy Halladay deal to be made for the Yankees? Not as it stands right now. But rumblings around baseball are that the price for Halladay is dropping, and despite Halladay’s assertion that he’ll only approve a trade if it happens before spring training, the general consensus is that it isn’t exactly a hard deadline.

We saw it happen with Johan Santana. The longer a team waits for the perfect package, the more likely they are to take a lesser one. In this case, the longer Halladay stays in Toronto, the better the chances for the Yankees to swoop in and get a deal.

Will it happen? Who knows. But with the offseason moving past its first big milestone, Cashman has shown yet again that he knows the value of patience.

—-

Last chance on the mailbag. E-mail me to ask your question on anything and everything. It’ll go up tomorrow around noon.

 
 

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255 Responses to “Patience is a virtue (except when it isn’t)”

  1. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    Who cares if Delgado showed leadership? You have to be a leader on your former team to play for the Yankees now. I was not aware of that requirement.

    IMO:

    A healthy Delgado for 3 or 4 million is >> Matsui for 7-8 mill

  2. DT - OPPC member December 10th, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    I trust Cashman enough to not burn my Yankee latkes…

  3. Mark T December 10th, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    Delgado doesn’t have to show leadership. He can just blend in here.

    He also has played in the AL East before and knows what it is about.

  4. Sam Borden December 10th, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    DT — that’s good. I, on the other hand, burned my finger (but not the latkes themselves)

  5. Ball 4 December 10th, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    What is wrong with an outfield of

    Melky-Granderson-Swisher

    with Damon at DH?

  6. Pat M. December 10th, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    I think that the attention that the Chicago White Sox are giving to Matsui may prod Cashman to get Matsui inked…..He’s a Proud Yankee who really wants to come back, and I’ll bet he’ll take less to return to 161st Street…..He’s the perfect # 5 stick behind Alex….In many ways I view him more important to the club than Damon…..

  7. Nick D. December 10th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    I think another reason Damon is great is because he can offer an option at OF. He doesn’t have to be a full time DH. Delgado and Matsui would both be just that.

    I have to say, all this Delgado chatter is just like the Dejesus chatter…to me there is no substance to it because I haven’t heard a single thing about it outside of us normal people without inside knowledge here in these comments. Its all a pipe dream to me until I hear some legit substantiation that the Yanks are looking into the option and imho silly to argue about. Sure you could argue that the Yankees should look into him and be interested but until I hear that they have, i don’t much care.

  8. JeterJobaCanoFan2010 December 10th, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    Yes, indeed, patience is a virtue. Fans need to be more patient with our young pitchers like Joba and Phil. Face it – these two have the toughest job in the MLB. Trying to become a rotation pitcher in the AL east much less on a storied team as the Yankees. Yankee fans and NY media are notorious for their high expectations of players. Patient.

    I like Swisher but do not believe he is a #2 batter behind Jeter. Still need a strong batter to protect A-Rod.

    After reading all these posts today it is hard to believe the Yankees actually won the WS with such mediocre players!

  9. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    If Damon wants more than 1 year tho I think the Yanks move on

  10. Joe from Long Island December 10th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    Who cares about leadership? Sounds like the same thoughts that led to Ed Whitson, Raul Mondesi, Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, guys who led to a lot of fond memories for the Yankees.

    Yeah, all Matsui did was be thoroughly professional, and win a few meaningless games for us during the season, and in November.

  11. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    I would take the patience is a virtue idea one step further.

    Let’s wait for Joba, Hughes, and Montero to fully develop and be lifelong Yankees.

  12. Hi! My name is 'm' December 10th, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    There’s just no market for Damon. I think we’re going to get “stuck” with him. Damon’s a good guy and provides some offense, but I don’t think he can play the field very effectively much longer. We got really lucky we squeezed 4 years out Damon, and the last two were not without their moments with calf issues and what not.

    There’s no market for Damon and there’s a reason for that. He’s the oldest of the FA “prizes”.

    If I’m going to sign a LF, I want him to play a good left field.

    Found this in the comment section of the Shaugnessy article:

    CHB,
    Lets get something straight…..saying that “The Yankees developed Pettite” is the same as saying “The Red Sox developed Curt Schilling”. Pettite is on the Yankees roster today because they signed him as a FA from Houston after the 07 season. He was a free agent.

  13. 'My heart beats when they win, and it stops beating when they lose.' December 10th, 2009 at 10:23 pm

    I’m not so sure about Montero’s longevity as a catcher. He is a really big guy, and I could only imagine how much pressure his knees need to hold up. Hopefully that’s critical thinking on my part. However, regardless of that, he has high potential to be a big time masher.

  14. jennifer December 10th, 2009 at 10:23 pm

    I would offer Damon 1 year with a vesting option at 140 games. Make it reasonable. A take it or leave it.

  15. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 10:24 pm

    Joe,

    So, you are saying if you are not a leader you are an ahole?

    Johnson, Mondesi, etc. those guys were all major pricks

    Delgado is not a leader but he is known as a nice guy. Matsui was never a leader on the team either.

    You can not jump for leader straight to ahole. There is a huge gap in between.

  16. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    “I would offer Damon 1 year with a vesting option at 140 games. Make it reasonable. A take it or leave it.”

    There are too many payroll commitments for 2011 to give Damon two years under any circumstances.

  17. Jorge in Orlando December 10th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    Will there be latkes for the table?

  18. Phil December 10th, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    I think Cash is having a great hot stove season so far, and expect that he won’t do anything dumb of desperate.

  19. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    Joe from Long Island December 10th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    Who cares about leadership? Sounds like the same thoughts that led to Ed Whitson, Raul Mondesi, Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, guys who led to a lot of fond memories for the Yankees.

    Yeah, all Matsui did was be thoroughly professional, and win a few meaningless games for us during the season, and in November.

    ————————-

    I want Matsui back too, but i don’t see why being a “leader” is a prerequisite to play for the team. Is Damon a leader? Is Cano? Swisher? Melky? Marte? I see how it’s a good quality, but i don’t think anyone needs to be disqualified for it (unless their personality is detrimental to the club). Thankfully we have good leadership on the team.

  20. DT - OPPC member December 10th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    “Pat M.
    December 10th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
    I think that the attention that the Chicago White Sox are giving to Matsui may prod Cashman to get Matsui inked…”

    Pat M – I’m worried about his knees holding up. (even as a DH – running the bases)
    I’m wondering if Matsui would do an incentive type deal?
    Like Andy P. last year, but based on AB’s or total days on the roster.

    It’s hard to remember back when Matsui was the “iron man”, and played every single game!

  21. Pokey December 10th, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    Delgado? Really? His best years are well behind him! Plus we’re trying to get younger and more athletic, two things he surely doesn’t bring to the table.

  22. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 10th, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    Matsui will hold up fine – he’s no longer taking the pounding as a fielder.

    I see no reason why Matsui’s knees can’t be managed as they were last year.

    If anyone remembers, Matsui was always hurt/gassed by the postseason (excepting 2003 & 2004). He was fresh as a daisy in October/November this year.

    A well-rested Matsui, as we saw, is a lethal bat to have. There’s no risk in re-signing Matsui, especially on a 1-year deal.

  23. george December 10th, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    The Yankees, I hope, will always have a “now-now-now” angle.

    Sure, let’s not go 1980s-Yanks about the tactics. Let’s not moves to make moves because we’re ticked about a loss. Let’s not trade Phil Hughes for Rich Rhoden or Derek Lowe. Let’s not run the team in the way that, uh, overly enthusiastic fans such as myself would. But let’s not turn into the Mets either.

  24. Pokey December 10th, 2009 at 10:41 pm

    IIRC, Matsui had to have his knees drained during the season. Just because he isn’t playing the field doesn’t mean he stays completely healthy all season.

  25. pat December 10th, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    Just put on MLBNetwork and they have a documentary of the 2009 year in review on.

    They are up to the playoffs if you have MLB Network and want to see how the playoffs played out. :wink:

  26. Abdababdaserser December 10th, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    Pokey, even when he had to have some time off himself, it wasn’t a bad thing having Matsui as DH. During those balky knees times the regulars got their half days in at DH.

    I don’t see it as a big detriment to bring him back.

  27. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 10th, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    Thanks pat!

  28. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    Pokey
    December 10th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
    Delgado? Really? His best years are well behind him! Plus we’re trying to get younger and more athletic, two things he surely doesn’t bring to the table.

    ———————-

    Really he must not have gotten that memo when he hit 38 HR in 2008 and started the season last year with a 141 OPS+ before getting hurt.

    Are Damon or Matsui younger or more athletic? No. And it does not matter because they would be the DH.

  29. DT - OPPC member December 10th, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    “Matsui will hold up fine – he’s no longer taking the pounding as a fielder.”

    Bod – Matsui didn’t play the OF all year, but he still had a couple of bouts with the knees needing to be drained didn’t he? Or am I thinking of 2008?

  30. Tank December 10th, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    We don’t need the DH to “rest the aging guys”.

    Girardi did a great job of that last year, with the full roster.

  31. Nick in SF December 10th, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    Has anyone bought the commemerative Matsui Knee-Fluid Bucket from Steiner Sports?

    I’m getting one for my dad for Christmas.

  32. 7789 December 10th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    Joba will win 15 games as a starter this year now that he is no longer restricted to an innings limit. The yanks would be clueless if they want to move him to the bullpen.

  33. Ham Fighters December 10th, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    joba had better be in better shape, physically and mentally if he wants to win 15 next year.

  34. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    Nick in SF December 10th, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    Has anyone bought the commemerative Matsui Knee-Fluid Bucket from Steiner Sports?

    I’m getting one for my dad for Christmas.

    ———————

    Not cool! though i did laugh…

  35. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    People on here really do not get the whole younger and more athletic thing at all. This is not just a short term overnight plan for next year. This is a long term plan.

    You sign guys like Matsui, Delgado, Cameron, etc. on one year deals so

    (1) you do not have to fill holes with long term contracts like say Holliday would get and have to pay him well into his 30s

    (2) you do not have to give up draft picks and therefore draft younger and more athletic players

    and

    (3) you buy an extra year for all the guys already in the farm system to develop.

    While these guys are well into their 30s they actually further the long term goal of getting younger and more athletic.

  36. Tom K December 10th, 2009 at 10:50 pm

    Joba’s “physical shape” was no different in 2009 than it was in 2008…or 2007….or in his brief minor league career. His struggles had little, or nothing, to do with his body type IMHO.

  37. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 10th, 2009 at 10:50 pm

    Pokey
    December 10th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
    IIRC, Matsui had to have his knees drained during the season. Just because he isn’t playing the field doesn’t mean he stays completely healthy all season.
    ======

    No, it doesn’t mean that, but it’s clearly a manageable situation for the Yankees. You’re right that he wasn’t healthy all season – there were stretches where he looked pretty forlorn in the batter’s box. Then you’d see this surge in energy and he’d go on a tear, and he’d be fairly sprinting home on some nights.

    Overall, he had a good season for us and his bat is as resilient as ever, if not his knees.

    There’s no risk – it’s a one-year commitment.

  38. austinmac December 10th, 2009 at 10:50 pm

    I luckily married a great Jewish woman and get to enjoy latkes. My wife agreed with your advice.

    Great coverage of the meetings except it made work a bit more of an inconvenience such as not hearing of the Granderson trade for a couple hours. Unacceptable.

  39. Nick in SF December 10th, 2009 at 10:51 pm

    Speaking of patience, I’m been impaiently waiting for Chien-ming Wang news. There has been little.

    I’ve also been waiting for a new post from Chad — how long does it take to get back from Indiana???

    But what if Chad isn’t on the way back from Indiana? What if he’s really on the Indianapolis-Tainan non-stop, chasing down a blockbuster exclusive???

    That would be something.

  40. JeterJobaCanoFan2010 December 10th, 2009 at 10:51 pm

    You said it all!

    Rich in NJ
    December 10th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
    I would take the patience is a virtue idea one step further.

    Let’s wait for Joba, Hughes, and Montero to fully develop and be lifelong Yankees.

  41. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    People on here really do not get the whole younger and more athletic thing at all. This is not just a short term overnight plan for next year. This is a long term plan.

    You sign guys like Matsui, Delgado, Cameron, etc. on one year deals so

    (1) you do not have to fill holes with long term contracts like say Holliday would get and have to pay him well into his 30s

    (2) you do not have to give up draft picks and therefore draft younger and more athletic players

    and

    (3) you buy an extra year for all the guys already in the farm system to develop.

    While these guys are well into their 30s they actually further the long term goal of getting younger and more athletic.

    ————————–

    Seems about right to me.

  42. Pokey December 10th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    Matsui isn’t getting any younger. We were quite fortunate that he only had to have his knees drained once or twice this past year. What are the odds of that happening again this coming season? I love him, but it is time to move on.

    And Damon is a thousand times more athletic than Delgado.

    The DH spot needs to be filled by someone who can actually fill a spot in the field every once in a while, preferably in the OF. Delgado and Matsui don’t fit that role.

  43. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 10th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    DT – OPPC member
    December 10th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
    “Matsui will hold up fine – he’s no longer taking the pounding as a fielder.”
    Bod – Matsui didn’t play the OF all year, but he still had a couple of bouts with the knees needing to be drained didn’t he? Or am I thinking of 2008?
    ====

    No, you’re correct, but the Yankees seem to be on top of this. What is the risk in re-signing a guy for one more year?

    Matsui is also a health freak – he practices qi gong and eats seaweed every day. This guy takes extremely good care of himself. Between that and the Yankees ability to cope last year with knee issues when they cropped up – I’d say the relative risk is small.

    Only lucre and only for a year.

  44. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    Pokey December 10th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    Matsui isn’t getting any younger. We were quite fortunate that he only had to have his knees drained once or twice this past year. What are the odds of that happening again this coming season? I love him, but it is time to move on.

    And Damon is a thousand times more athletic than Delgado.

    The DH spot needs to be filled by someone who can actually fill a spot in the field every once in a while, preferably in the OF. Delgado and Matsui don’t fit that role.

    ————————–

    I dont agree. i think the team is versatile enough to carry a Matsui or Delgado. And i dont think this year is any more of a risk on Matsui than last year (especially on a one year deal).

  45. DT - OPPC member December 10th, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    “I’ve also been waiting for a new post from Chad — how long does it take to get back from Indiana???”

    Nick, it’s the wind. It does crazy things. That crazy wind.
    Chad is at the mercy of the wind….

    “Who has seen the wind?
    Neither you nor I.
    But when the trees bow down their heads
    The wind is passing by.”

    (from the Holiday CD – Yoko Ono gets seasonal)

  46. blake December 10th, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    Now that the Yankees have Granderson I think Matsui fits their needs better and will be cheaper than Damon. Lets face it neither one of them should probably be playing the outfield so I wouldn’t factor that into the decision.

  47. Tom in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 10:59 pm

    “The Chicago Sun-Times reports: According to a scout familiar with the situation, the White Sox were one of two teams in the American League Central letting the New York Yankees know during the winter meetings this week that they covet outfielder Brett Gardner.”

    http://www.chicagobreakingspor.....rdner.html

  48. Pokey December 10th, 2009 at 10:59 pm

    Tom,
    The problem with Joba wasn’t his body type. It’s that he showed up with terrible cardio in ST and never recovered. He’s never going to be Mr. Universe, but CC shows that you can be big and still have the stamina to get through a game. That’s what Joba needs to learn.

  49. Ham Fighters December 10th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    joba was soft in the gut and the head last year. a big change is needed for him to become what he can be.

  50. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 10th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    Rad,

    I would go so far as to say that Damon has much more of a chance of further deterioration.

    He IS, after all, approximating playing an OF position – there is no window for Matsui to do so, which should preserve him nicely.

    Damon will likely decline at a greater rate and is, therefore, the greater risk.

  51. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    blake makes a fair point.

  52. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 11:01 pm

    Pokey
    December 10th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    The DH spot needs to be filled by someone who can actually fill a spot in the field every once in a while, preferably in the OF. Delgado and Matsui don’t fit that role.

    ——————————-

    Yeah it was awful last year when Matsui was strictly a DH, the Yankees won 103 games, and he won WS MVP.

    If only Matsui had the knees to play the field last year. What could have been…..

  53. Abdababdaserser December 10th, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    So it looks like the Red Sox are going to pay 9 million a year to kick Lowell off their team and play for Texas.

    I know you are looking to clear some space, but it seems like a tough move to make thinking that saving 3 million is worth not having him at all. If he is that bad then DFA him to get room but see if you can’t wangle some value out of him.

    Boy am I glad that the Yankees signed Alex back and didn’t end up signing Lowell.

  54. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    Bodi,

    I see your point, and it makes sense. But if Damon signs, i think his role in the OF will be extremely diminished. I can’t see them playing him in the field even with the team as is. Unless they get a big time DH as well (which i don’t think is likely).

  55. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 10th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    Right. A guy who is a DH is a DH. That’s his position.

  56. Rose December 10th, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    Joba 15 wins?

    He needs to throw strikes. And stop shaking off Posada. He does look a bit chubby though.
    A good year for him 13-9 just like AJ.

  57. ray (sox fan) December 10th, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    “CHB,
    Lets get something straight…..saying that “The Yankees developed Pettite” is the same as saying “The Red Sox developed Curt Schilling”. Pettite is on the Yankees roster today because they signed him as a FA from Houston after the 07 season. He was a free agent.”

    ____________________________________________________________

    m, is this really your post? For some reason it does not sound like you. I think most people would say that the Yankees developed Pettite since he started with the Yankees and played with the Yankees from 1995 to 2003 before he ever played for Houston.

  58. blake December 10th, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    Of course it would be great to have a DH that can play somewhere in the field occasionally, the thing is that whoever it is if they are only playing in the field 1 or 2 days a week then how good are they going to be? It gives you more flexibility sure but I don’t really see it as that big a factor.

  59. Abdababdaserser December 10th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    Don’t discount the marketing benefit that Matsui brings to the Yankees from Japan. With him on the Yankees its enough to cover his salary and he can contribute and have his cost being covered by a different revenue stream.

    Delgado isn’t going to have his salary subsidized.

  60. Sam Borden December 10th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    Nick: What am I? Chopped liver? :-)

    Also, how’d you know about our plan to send Chad to Taiwan? LoHud stops at nothing to get the story, you know …

  61. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 10th, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    You mean Johnny as a DH, seldom-OF?

    He’s a great hitter, but I don’t know if he would take to DH-ing well.

  62. Pokey December 10th, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    LGY,

    Obviously everything worked out great this past season. I’m not disputing that whatsoever. But things change from season to season, and it’d be foolish to think that they’ll stay as healthy as they did this season. Having someone who can play the field is a great insurance policy and offers a chance to keep guys rested and healthy.

  63. Ham Fighters December 10th, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    damon was terrible in the OF last year, no range and even when he got to balls, alot of them bounced off his glove. i like him as the DH but only on a one year deal with a club option and a buyout for damon.

  64. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    WOW! 9 mil is going with him? I think it’s a good trade on their part bringing in Maximiliano…but 9 mil?!

  65. Abdababdaserser December 10th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    Ray, I think that was a quote from a RS blog or newspaper comment section.

    Obviously the Yankees developed Pettitte. Brought up through the farm and all his career except those few years in Texas.

  66. Hi! My name is 'm' December 10th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    Okay, so we all agree? Hideki would make a better DH than Damon?

    Of course Damon would look like Carl Crawford relative to Hideki…

  67. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    Abdababdaserser

    Did we discuss Congress and college football yesterday?

    If so, this should put you at ease:

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-.....ayoff-bill

  68. Pokey December 10th, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    Cashman has already said that the marketing aspect will have no bearing on bringing Matsui back.

  69. Hi! My name is 'm' December 10th, 2009 at 11:13 pm

    ray,

    lol. No that was some beaner telling another beaner that. I kind of thought about it, though. maybe the guy had a point, but it was pretty funny.

  70. Abdababdaserser December 10th, 2009 at 11:13 pm

    I’d be OK with either Hideki or Damon. I think there are benefits with both of them, and there are weaknesses with both of them.

    Rad, yeah, that is a lot of money to throw away. I think they still have money paying Lugo as well. Not positive on that.

  71. Ham Fighters December 10th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    id prefer matsui to damon myself, i think johnny’s decline in hr’s in the 2nd half is more indicative of what to expect going forward, he worked out that hook swing for YS but then pitchers figured out not to throw him slow stuff inside and the hr’s dissappeared. matsui has real hr power.

  72. Betsy - high on pie December 10th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    Delgado? LOL I don’t think so. IMO, He’s a (insert whatever name you like) for very likely jaking it in order to get Willie fired….You don’t have to be a genius to figure out that he was a large part of the reason Willie got the shaft and that is unforgivable. I would never root for him and this guy will never be on the Yankees.

  73. blake December 10th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    The situation is that the Yankees could use a #5 type hitter. Matsui is that and Damon isn’t. They have several guys that could hit 2nd (Granderson, Cano, Swisher), but nobody that really will provide protection to Arod. Plus Matsui will likely cost less and be more likely to do a one year deal.

  74. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    Abdababdaserser December 10th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    Don’t discount the marketing benefit that Matsui brings to the Yankees from Japan. With him on the Yankees its enough to cover his salary and he can contribute and have his cost being covered by a different revenue stream.
    ———————

    I didnt even think of that. Great point. I dont think it can be understated.

    ——————–

    “I think most people would say that the Yankees developed Pettite since he started with the Yankees and played with the Yankees from 1995 to 2003 before he ever played for Houston.”
    ————————

    Pettitte was developed by the yankees. It’s a matter of fact. Anyone who says otherwise is just plain wrong.

  75. sar515 December 10th, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Any posting with latkes and Yankees is good with me!

  76. Nick in SF December 10th, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Sam, I enjoy your posts just as much as Chad’s, but you’re not the one who’s AWOL.

    Taiwan dumplings for the table?????

  77. Abdababdaserser December 10th, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Thanks Rich. Yeah, that was with me, it just seemed like a waste of time for them to be even talking about. Then again, I’ve seen some pictures of the Senators playing solitaire on their laptops during sessions.

  78. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    Pokey December 10th, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    Cashman has already said that the marketing aspect will have no bearing on bringing Matsui back.

    ——————

    Did he? If this is true I retract my last statement.

  79. Rose December 10th, 2009 at 11:17 pm

    Mets might bring Delgado back. They want power from 1st base and Murphy has none.

  80. Pokey December 10th, 2009 at 11:17 pm

    Granderson is the new 5-spot guy most likely, with Posada, Swisher and Cano also candidates. We have a lot more options there than we do for the 2-spot.

  81. Pokey December 10th, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    Rad,
    He said that several weeks ago. I think it was at the GM meetings.

  82. Abdababdaserser December 10th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    Pokey, while Cashman would say that because it is part of his positioning for the bargaining of his services it still would play a role. You don’t turn away from 15 million a year without really weighing the value of doing so.

    He also said the post season wouldn’t have any impact on his thinking yet he mentioned Matsui’s MVP in the WS during an interview.

    Any time you are thinking of signing a player you look at EVERYTHING they bring and don’t bring with them. That includes income they generate.

  83. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    I think that Damon and Matsui are both better 2 and 5 hitters (respectively) than anyone else on the team that may take their spot. But we do have guys who could more easily bat 2nd than 5th.

  84. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 10th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    Betsy,

    The treatment of Willie Randolph, my favorite Yankee growing up, by the Mets has demonized that franchise for me for all time.

    I will never feel a shred of sympathy for them.

    And now I bid you all a good night.

  85. Nick in SF December 10th, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    Not everything that Cashman says has a direct correlation with what will actually happen.

  86. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    Yeah, it may just be a ploy by Cash. Matsui for ‘free’, is better than Damon for 10ish. If you want to get into the nuts and bolts…

  87. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    Betsy – high on pie
    December 10th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
    Delgado? LOL I don’t think so. IMO, He’s a (insert whatever name you like) for very likely jaking it in order to get Willie fired….You don’t have to be a genius to figure out that he was a large part of the reason Willie got the shaft and that is unforgivable. I would never root for him and this guy will never be on the Yankees.

    —————————-

    It is amazing to me that a number have people see it as a complete joke that the Yankees would sign Delgado. If he is healthy he would be one of the best hitters on the Yankees.

    A healthy Delgado is better than Matsui or Damon

  88. Ham Fighters December 10th, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    i think willie, more than anything was undermined by minaya and bernazard. willie wanted to instill some much-needed discipline and professionalism into the mets organization, but instead of management backing him up and getting rid of the malcontents, minaya and especially bernazard held the player’s hands and willie was roundly ignored and eventually fired.

    when the angels brought in scioscia, he knocked some heads and management backed him, moved out the trouble-makers and everybody knew who was in charge, the result is that a former joke of a franchise became a winner.

    the mets had the right guy in willie to fix what was really wrong with thier organization, but mangement didnt let him.

  89. Betsy - high on pie December 10th, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    Happy Hannukah, Sam – enjoy your latkes!

    Good post – you hit the nail on the head re: Cash and how patient he is. The Sox asked for Ellsbury and Bucholz for Granderson and the Tigers asked for Hughes and Joba(?). I know it was Hughes and someone. Point is…….obviously Theo walked away before he was able to convince the Tigers to come down off of their request. I assume Cash conveyed to the Tigers the feeling that, though they wanted Granderson, they were perfectly willing to walk away from the whole deal. Either it was a gigantic bluff or Cash really did feel he had other options – whatever it was, it worked beautifully. He is a cool, shrewd customer – really, it was never more in evidence than with the Tex dealings. Between Towers rejecting the Sox due to Theo/Lucchino tension or John Henry being his usual idiotic self, the Sox are a bit like a running soap opera. However, back to the main point – Cash is calculating and he’s smart. I’m just thrilled to death that the Yankees will no longer be patsies of the big name free agents – they will make deals on their own terms or not at all.

    AS to Doc, I’ve no idea whether to believe Klapisch’s tweet that the Yanks are backing out. At this point, it seems clear that NO team is going to give the Jays what they want. Can Cash wait it out ? He can if he’s willing to take the risk – the risk that they won’t have any other pitching options (Sheets and co. will have signed by then) available to them.

  90. Abdababdaserser December 10th, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    The Mets have looked worse since they trashed Willie. It will become the next “curse” on a team. The Willie Whammy!

  91. blake December 10th, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    Pokey, thats a matter of opinion. I think all those guys besides Posada are better 2 hole hitters than #5 hitters. Pitchers are going to pitch around Arod to get to any of them and if Granderson is hitting 5th with a lefty on the mound then Alex won’t see a strike the whole game.

  92. Betsy - high on pie December 10th, 2009 at 11:25 pm

    Ham, Willie was treated shabbily (to say the least) by the Mutt organization. Bernarzard is a weasel in human clothing – talking up Acta practically in front of his own manager? The way they fired Willie was sickening……..disgracefully unprofessional behavior.

  93. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    Though i am partial to Matsui, Delgado’s abilities and possible contribution to this lineup should not overlooked. Personally, i dont think it’ll happen. But its not a ‘bad’ move.

  94. Betsy - high on pie December 10th, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    It’s one person talking up Delgado……

  95. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    Betsy – high on pie
    December 10th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
    It’s one person talking up Delgado……

    ———————-

    huh?

  96. blake December 10th, 2009 at 11:29 pm

    if you can re-sign Matsui, probably cheaper than Delgado then why would you sign Delgado? Why sign a guy who we haven’t seen perform for the Yankees when you can sign a guy that has.

  97. Abdababdaserser December 10th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    Betsy, did you see the latest posting on Halladay over at MLBTradeRumors? It has the Jays looking for way more from the Angels. The Jays seem like they are operating like Smith did.

    It will be interesting to see what they do. Personally, I hope they keep him while thinking they can deal him mid-season, and then Halladay says no, not gonna do it.

    Halladay might accept a trade, but he seems like someone who isn’t afraid to get his back up. He really looked ticked off last season during that whole mess, and I can’t blame him for not wanting to have it go on again.

  98. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    blake
    December 10th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
    if you can re-sign Matsui, probably cheaper than Delgado then why would you sign Delgado? Why sign a guy who we haven’t seen perform for the Yankees when you can sign a guy that has.

    ——————-

    Because you probably can not do that. Why would a guy coming over a serious injury make more than arguably the best DH in baseball next year?

    Matsui in all likelihood will get 7-9 million. There is no way Delgado touches 7 million next season. I would be surprised if he got more than 4.

  99. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    That Angels offer was no joke. Are they really asking for more?

  100. PittsburghYankeeFan December 10th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    Can someone make a latke in the shape of an interlocking NY? I may try that experiment tomorrow.

    The Yankees have put together a great team.

    Any of the guys discussed for DH will do fine–it’s on the margin now. Doesn’t matter if it’s Damon, Matsui, or Cameron. They all have potential for 25 HR and 80-100 RBI, and one will sign with NY. It’s about the years now.

    Not sure a reclamation like Sheets or Dusherer is any better than what they have now–why take the risk? I’m thinking more and more of going with what they have and tendering Wang for the reclamation project.

    Not sure what else they have to do. I’d get rid of Igawa (does his salary count)?

  101. blake December 10th, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    If Matsui is arguably the best DH in baseball then why not just get him.

  102. Rose December 10th, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    ‘the mets had the right guy in willie to fix what was really wrong with thier organization, but mangement didnt let him.”

    There were also some Met players complaining to Bernazard about Willie which didn’t help.
    Bernazard eventually was fired but not soon enough for me.

  103. Pat M. December 10th, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    Matsui still has outstanding bat speed, still hits the ball hard and still drives it…He does have some problems with the outside stuff especially when it’s down…That’s when his soft knee is evident….All in all, he still has great plate coverage and is very deadly with anything middle in…..He’ll cheat sometimes on the insider bender, but make no mistake about it, he’s still a very feared hitter in the minds of those he hits against……He will be back in Pinstripes in 2010……He’s a perfect fit on the team, the lineup, & in the clubhouse……Oh, and the NY Yankees are The team in Japan…..He still has his groupies spinning the turnstilles in The Bronx and everywhere else they played…..

  104. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    lets go yankees,

    thats likely true about Delgado being a reasonable pick up salary wise. But lets not forget the earlier point that Matsui does in fact pay for himself in some ways.

  105. Betsy - high on pie December 10th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    Aba, I just got back on the computer; the last I checked, Jayson Stark had confirmed what Heyman said – that the Jays are asking for an exhorbitant price, from everyone. That’s fine……but A.A. either is going to have to lower his demands or he won’t trade Doc. I think Doc is a man of his word and I honestly believe that he is very annoyed with the Jays. Would he accept a trade to a contender after ST? Unless it’s to a team he really wants to go to (and not just a contender), my gut says no. If he does go, I’ll bet it’s a rental because I do think he wants to test the FA waters……In that case, what can the Jays get for him when now the team won’t have him for 2 or even 1 full year, but just 1/2 a year?

  106. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    blake
    December 10th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
    If Matsui is arguably the best DH in baseball then why not just get him.

    ————————–

    Well first off, Delgado was not a DH last year. But, if Delgado is healthy he simply is a better player than Matsui.

    Second, like I said before Matsui will probably cost twice as much as Delgado. For Matsui you can sign Delgado and a 6th starter that JDuch.

    Delgado + JDuch > Matsui.

    But there is no guarantee Delgado is healthy.

  107. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    I’d prefer CMW over any of the reclamation projects. Though if i had to pick one, it’d probably be Ducsh b/c i like his stuff and he can both start and relieve. I like Sheets, but he’s going to cost a lot.

  108. blake December 10th, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    Eh I don’t know, Delgado is a really good hitter but I really haven’t heard him connected with the Yankees (maybe I just haven’t see the report) and I feel like Matsui is the safer play. We know what we’re getting with him.

  109. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 10th, 2009 at 11:41 pm

    I never said Delgado was connected to the Yankees. I was just throwing the idea out there. Until Delgado proves he is healthy (I believe he is playing in PR to try to do that) he will not be connected to anyone.

  110. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 11:41 pm

    Is there actual a credible report stating or at least suggesting that the Yankees have an interest in Delgado?

  111. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    I think Matsui definitely is the safer play. But Delgado did put up crazy numbers the last time he was healthy. Again, there’s no way in knowing how close to that he’ll be now.

  112. Rich in NJ December 10th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    Matsui at $5m or 6m for one year would be hard to pass up.

  113. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    We’re just thinking outside the box with Delgado.

  114. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    I think the Yankees sign Matsui for 5-6 mil asap.

  115. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:45 pm

    I mean that i think they would.

  116. pat December 10th, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    Nick

    According to their Tweets, 3 of the NY beat writers had their flights cancelled from Indy to NY.

    Maybe Chad is enjoying another night in Peyton-ville.

  117. Pat M. December 10th, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    Betsy, after 3 nights of Mike Cameron being shoveled about as the best CF for the Yanks, now here comes The Carlos Delgado fan club……..Lets go yanks, if is a rather significantconcern when constructing a MLB baseball club……You have as much chance being the next DH for The NY Yankees as does Carlos Delgado…….Matsui is not some Have Bat Will Travel, he’s a Proud to wear the Pinstripes Yankee….If he felt he couldn’t perform, he’d be long gone….He’ll be back and he’ll have another fine season……I say this with full knowledge that I’ll be facing a season of contant ragging from you……

  118. Betsy - high on pie December 10th, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/.....8562.story

    For some reason, the Jays want Saunders – go figure

  119. blake December 10th, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    Betsy, would you put Montero in the deal for Halladay? They could have him tommorow I believe if they would include him. I don’t care what people say, its tempting…

  120. Abdababdaserser December 10th, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    10:00pm: Angels GM Tony Reagins didn’t comment on the reported offer of Saunders, Aybar and Bourjos, but two sources shot the rumor down when Mike DiGiovanna of the LA Times asked them about it.

    Reagins said the Blue Jays have targeted Saunders, Bourjos and Mike Napoli. It’s even “possible” that the deal could be expanded to send more Blue Jays to Anaheim.

    “They have a lot of pieces that are attractive,” Reagins said.
    _________________

    Betsy, the above is what was posted. The Angels make out like they would increase their offer for more back from the Jays, but what they Jays targeted is pretty high. The Angels aren’t gutting their team to get Halladay, and if they don’t sign Lackey they didn’t really get better if they do get Halladay.

    It could be that the Jays have resigned themselves to asking for the moon while accepting that they will just get draft picks for Doc. He will pitch to his best ability regardless.

    I do think they could take a chance that Halladay doesn’t mean what he says. Granted he might go to his team of choice, but they might not get anything of value for him at that point.

  121. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    Pat M.,

    I agree with much of what you’re saying (especially about Matsui). But can you imagine what Delgado’s numbers would translate into in the Yankee lineup? It’s just pretty crazy to think (and blog) about.

  122. Abdababdaserser December 10th, 2009 at 11:55 pm

    I don’t understand the what the Jays see in Saunders. Other than having him till 2013 he isn’t much more than back of the rotation.

  123. Betsy - high on pie December 10th, 2009 at 11:56 pm

    Pat M, I’m neither here nor there on Cameron to be honest….I’m not pushing for him nor am I against him. Delgado is a completely different story.

  124. blake December 10th, 2009 at 11:56 pm

    I don’t think they are that interested in Saunders or they would have said yes already.

  125. CR9 December 10th, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    Matsui for 5 or 6 mil is an absolute steal.

  126. Rad December 10th, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    “They have a lot of pieces that are attractive,” Reagins said.

    I think someone found a taker for Vernon Wells!! lol.

  127. blake December 11th, 2009 at 12:00 am

    CR9- agreed, if the Yankees could get Matsui for 5 or 6 million then they would still have 14 or 15 million to play with to stay at or below the payroll from last year. Would they stop there and actually reduce the payroll? Sheets, Halladay, Holliday. Lots of options with that amount of money if they choose to spend it.

  128. Abdababdaserser December 11th, 2009 at 12:01 am

    Pat, I agree that Matsui isn’t going to take a paycheck if he felt he couldn’t contribute. He’s one of the rare players who apologized for getting hurt. That was when he broke his wrist.

    He is also Jeter’s favorite player, so there has to be some value in that. ;)

    I think Cashman will look to sign up whoever he thinks can give the best overall value. I can understand his liking having a DH who can play a position, especially when it comes to interleague play and the WS. That was the weakness of Matsui, yet he won the MVP for the series. It might be worth trying him in the outfield but I think if the Yankees sign him its DH only.

  129. Tank December 11th, 2009 at 12:02 am

    Wouldn’t it behoove both the Jays and Angels to first find out definitely whether or not Halladay would accept an extension with the Angels? Obviously the Angels deal is contingent upon him signing long term.

    Angels have a lot of holes and don’t need to be wasting time on a guy if he has no intentions of signing there. Then they can evaluate their other options.

    And the Jays already got burnt once by working out a deal with a team that Doc wouldn’t go to (Texas). Why would they waste time with the Angels deal if there is no shot he will sign with them?

    Maybe those conversations have taken place but the media is in the dark about it.

  130. blake December 11th, 2009 at 12:04 am

    That is the one downside to Matsui and a straight DH, interleague play and the World Series. Apparently Hideki is trying to get his legs healthy enough to play outfield but I’m not buying it. If he plays in the outfield his offense would likely suffer and any value gained by playing defense would be lost by decreased production.

  131. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 11th, 2009 at 12:04 am

    I am not down on Matsui at all. I think Matsui would be a great option for the Yankees at DH. However, there are other options out there.

    Cash all the leverage right now. If the price is not right on Damon he will move on. If it is not right on Matsui he will move on as well. Cashman is not attached to either of these guys and neither should you. This is about constructing the best team possible, not building a team full of fan favorites. It does not matter one iota what Damon or Matsui HAVE done for the Yankees. All that matter is how they will perform next year and what they will cost.

    If Delgado proves he is healthy you better believe that Cashman will check to see what he can get him for.

    Mike Cameron and Carlos Delgado are very good baseball players. Cashman would be stupid not to at least kick the tires on both of them and as we all know Cashman is not stupid.

  132. Abdababdaserser December 11th, 2009 at 12:07 am

    Rad, lol, yeah, that’s exactly who Reagins is talking about. Wells.

    I think if they could find some drunken GM willing to take Wells they would give them Halladay and League for a minor league bat boy.

  133. Betsy - high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 12:07 am

    Aba, in a Fox sports article yesterday, it said that the Jays could spin Saunders for prospects…..but really, if the Angels were to put him on the market right now, what kind of haul would he bring back?

    Reagins talks a lot, doesn’t he? Certainly more than Cash……..

  134. blake December 11th, 2009 at 12:09 am

    “Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski told Steve Kornacki of MLive.com that there’s a chance Phil Coke starts in Detroit.”

  135. blake December 11th, 2009 at 12:10 am

    “Marc Carig of the Star Ledger reports that the Yankees made contact with Ben Sheets’ agent. This doesn’t mean they’ll sign him, or that he’s a priority, but it’s worth noting.”

    I like it!

  136. Betsy - high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 12:10 am

    Reagins is willing to take on Wells? LOL…..ok.

    Tank, that’s what I think, too. I assume the Jays know who’s on Doc’s list and who’s not and that they wouldn’t bother talking to teams that aren’t……I still believe Doc would prefer to sign with a team who trains in Florida (at least long term), so if he’s intent on either that or testing FA, then I don’t know what the Angels are doing.

  137. Nick in SF December 11th, 2009 at 12:11 am

    Thanks, pat, but I don’t consider tweets to be admissable as evidence… coverup??

  138. Rad December 11th, 2009 at 12:12 am

    blake December 11th, 2009 at 12:09 am

    “Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski told Steve Kornacki of MLive.com that there’s a chance Phil Coke starts in Detroit.”

    ——————-

    Believe it or not, i had an inkling they might go that route.

  139. Phil December 11th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    If we’re gonna hire a DH, I hope it’s Matsui. He’s a Yankee.

  140. Abdababdaserser December 11th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    blake, the thing is you don’t construct an American League team for two weeks of interleague play and 3 or 4 games of the WS. And its not even two weeks as some of the games will be under AL rules during interleague play.

    It may be possible for Matsui to be OK to play the field once or twice during interleague and the same for the WS. He can also come in as a pinch hitter.

    It is one of the minus points for Matsui, but that holds for Thome or any other who is really a DH. Maybe they can try him at first, but for that short a time it seems like a waste to worry about.

  141. blake December 11th, 2009 at 12:14 am

    Abdababdaserser,
    oh I know and it wouldn’t stop me from signing him but it is a disadvantage.

  142. Abdababdaserser December 11th, 2009 at 12:14 am

    I saw that about Coke as well. I know he had been a starter, but could you imagine him as doing well in that role for any length of time? He gets lit up at times, those games could get ugly quick.

  143. Tim December 11th, 2009 at 12:14 am

    Yanks aren’t paying $10-12 million dollars for a DH who can’t play the field.

    Time to get younger and more flexible.

  144. Rad December 11th, 2009 at 12:15 am

    Just to be clear, the Vernon Wells thing was a joke.

  145. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 12:15 am

    There’s a better chance of Matsui backing up his 2009 season with a repeat than a 38 year old Delgado reverting to his last half 2008 season. He was brutal in the first half of that season.

    As far as leadership and in team interest, he proved that he had none. Instead of backing Randolph, he torpedoed him. He could have had a heart to heart with players like Reyes and did nothing. Beltran didn’t do much, either. They were supposed to be the team leaders. His political statements by avoiding the National anthem will not play with the steinbrenner family, and, neither will his statement that it’s not his National Anthem. In case that idiot is not aware of it, he’s a US citizen.

  146. blake December 11th, 2009 at 12:16 am

    Phil, thats what I think as well. If you have a guy available that you know can produce as a Yankee then why look elsewhere if the price is right.

  147. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 11th, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Betsy and Pat,

    Re: The Delgado thing

    You guys are just proving why fans would make horrendous baseball executives allowing your personal feelings towards players get in the way of making the best baseball decisions

  148. Rad December 11th, 2009 at 12:18 am

    If coke starts, can you imagine how SICK tigers fans will get from seeing him point up in the air 15 times a start, lol.

  149. blake December 11th, 2009 at 12:19 am

    So signing a guy who is 38 and was hurt all of last year is a better baseball decision than re-signing the World Series MVP?

  150. Abdababdaserser December 11th, 2009 at 12:21 am

    blake, I just think about what the Dodgers tried last season. Getting Thome mainly so they had a good pinch hitter who could do DH during the WS if they got that far.

    Its not a role that every good hitter can do.

    Just looking through the list of players still out on FA, man there are a lot of them on the list for FAs and not much talk about interest for them.

  151. blake December 11th, 2009 at 12:22 am

    Its a slow market for sure.

  152. Pat M. December 11th, 2009 at 12:22 am

    GB, Any word from the Doc’s ????? I finally got to see ” Gran Torino ” last night after hearing so much about it…….I found it to be a very fine film with some outstanding performances…….However the role that Clint Eastwood played, for some reason made me think of you……Crusty sob with a heart of !!!!!

  153. Buddy Biancalana December 11th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    I would be shocked to see Matsui come back & take less than $10M for one year.

  154. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 11th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    Delgado does not stand up for God Bless America and that is because he is in protest of the Iraq War. Nothing to do with the National Anthem so please get your facts straight before blasting the guy.

  155. Abdababdaserser December 11th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    Rad December 11th, 2009 at 12:15 am

    Just to be clear, the Vernon Wells thing was a joke.

    ___________

    So is that contract… unless you root for the Jays.

  156. Betsy - high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    ooh, I’m so insulted because Let’s Go Yankees doesn’t think I’d make a good GM. The fact that you have no defense of Delgado’s behavior towards Willie tells me all I need to know about you. I have no interest in getting into this with you. You can shout until you are blue in the face, but Delgado will not be a Yankee. Deal with it.

  157. blake December 11th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    Gnight Yankee fans.

  158. Abdababdaserser December 11th, 2009 at 12:25 am

    Rad December 11th, 2009 at 12:18 am

    If coke starts, can you imagine how SICK tigers fans will get from seeing him point up in the air 15 times a start, lol.
    __________

    The number of times he would point up may injure his arm! lol.

  159. Rad December 11th, 2009 at 12:25 am

    Indeed Abda…indeed, lol.

  160. Nick in SF December 11th, 2009 at 12:25 am

    Buddy: why?

  161. Rad December 11th, 2009 at 12:26 am

    I can seriously see him at least tearing a rotator-cuff like that, lol.

  162. Abdababdaserser December 11th, 2009 at 12:28 am

    Buddy, It all depends on the market. I don’t think many players will get the contracts they are hoping for.

    Seems to me that a measly 5 or 6 million is better than no millions. Times are tough and the players might just have to tighten their belts a bit.

  163. Pat M. December 11th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    lets go yanks…….I thought I have a rather clear description and rather through breakdown on Matsui and his at plate pro’s & con’s……..Over the past few years here I’ve established a fairly good reputation on the players the Yanks signed or acquired before the events occurred……Yankee fan of course, after 50 years, still a student of the game…….A good student that is …..

  164. Abdababdaserser December 11th, 2009 at 12:30 am

    Oh well, time to turn into a pumpkin. G’night blake, and all other fanatics of the Yankees that are still up.

  165. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 11th, 2009 at 12:30 am

    I could not care less what he did to Willie. Neither of us have the facts to what happened so I refuse to make assumptions. He is known as a good guy around baseball, that is all I know.

    All you guys are completely missing the point of what I am saying. I never said THE YANKEES SHOULD SIGN DELGADO! I said the Yankees could/should look into him. At the right price if he is healthy he COULD be a very good option. My point of you being a bad GM is that you are saying the Yankees should not even look at Delgado, because you personally do not like the guy.

    Someone with that much talent, Cash will kick the tires and check in. To not because Betsy or Pat do not like him is a stupid move and you can not let your personal biases get in the way of baseball decisions.

  166. Rad December 11th, 2009 at 12:31 am

    Goodnight all…

  167. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 11th, 2009 at 12:32 am

    Every single potential DH has a chance to be a Yankee next year. That includes Damon and Matsui. Guys like Thome or Vladdy. And yes, Delgado. The likelihood of each respective player being a Yankee? Who knows. But they most certainly ALL are options

  168. Nick in SF December 11th, 2009 at 12:33 am

    LoHud will not stand up for Delgado.

    Don’t take offense, Carlos.

  169. Buddy Biancalana December 11th, 2009 at 12:33 am

    Nick-

    You think he takes less? He is easily worth $10M, if Cash got him for an Abreu type deal of 2009, it would be pure genius.

  170. pat December 11th, 2009 at 12:34 am

    Letterman asked Kate Hudson if Hideki is coming back and she just laughed. Is that a yes or a no? :wink:

  171. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2009 at 12:35 am

    Kate Hudson was charming.

  172. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 12:39 am

    Pat M.
    December 11th, 2009 at 12:22 am
    GB, Any word from the Doc’s ????? I finally got to see ” Gran Torino ” last night after hearing so much about it…….I found it to be a very fine film with some outstanding performances…….However the role that Clint Eastwood played, for some reason made me think of you……Crusty sob with a heart of !!!!!

    ————————————————————

    PAT, I have a meeting tomorrow with the medical staff (minus the nurses) around 1:00 PM to get the results and whatever procedures will be done. After that, it’s just a matter of when to start them, if any. Not sure that anybody’s ever thought of me as a Clint Eastwood type….Dick Butkus or Rodney Dangerfield, maybe.

  173. rm December 11th, 2009 at 12:45 am

    Wow. Verducci is reporting that Cashman first called Detroit to enquire about Granderson on the same day he handed in the roster for game 1 of the world series.

  174. Nick in SF December 11th, 2009 at 12:45 am

    Buddy: I don’t know. I was curious if you meant that the market would drive his price tag over $10M or if pride would not allow him to take less. Or something else.

    I think a DH-only player with drippy knees might not get as much as we think this year. Though the Japan revenue should count for some extra coin. ;)

  175. Nick in SF December 11th, 2009 at 12:46 am

    Remember, money doesn’t grow on trees — though Mrs. Matsui might have.

  176. Buddy Biancalana December 11th, 2009 at 12:56 am

    Fair enough Nick.

    Maybe $8-9M is more like it, maybe throw some incentives in too.

  177. carl December 11th, 2009 at 1:00 am

    rm December 11th, 2009 at 12:45 am

    Wow. Verducci is reporting that Cashman first called Detroit to enquire about Granderson on the same day he handed in the roster for game 1 of the world series

    Cashman said that in the press conference.

  178. Pat M. December 11th, 2009 at 1:00 am

    GB, Eastwood’s character had the same grit and quick wit that’s made you an instition here…..Ex miltitary edge that just made me think of you……I hope lets go yankees will hang around till the season…..Love to watch him and Tricia go toe to toe……

  179. rm December 11th, 2009 at 1:07 am

    December 11th, 2009 at 12:45 am

    Wow. Verducci is reporting that Cashman first called Detroit to enquire about Granderson on the same day he handed in the roster for game 1 of the world series

    Cashman said that in the press conference.

    Sam reported the first discussions were at the GM meetings in November. I also hear November from the press conference. If he mentioned he called before the World series sarted at the press conference I guess I missed it

  180. rm December 11th, 2009 at 1:08 am

    hear = heard sarted = started

  181. Nick D. December 11th, 2009 at 1:18 am

    It is amazing to me that a number have people see it as a complete joke that the Yankees would sign Delgado. If he is healthy he would be one of the best hitters on the Yankees.
    A healthy Delgado is better than Matsui or Damon
    —–

    It’s amazing to me that you would just throw this name out there without any indication form any source other then your head thinking it’s a good idea and therefore proclaims that it must be a viable option for the Yankees.

  182. RSM December 11th, 2009 at 1:19 am

    I agree with the people here that believe Matsui is harder to replace in the line up than Damon. I also believe the team should have a dedicated DH, and that Matsui is a better hitter.
    However, there is real value in Damon being able to play the field on occasion (and I stress on occasion). That way you don’t lose your DH’s bat when resting one of the other players for a day here or there in the DH spot. If Girardi plans to rest several guys regularly, that’s a lot of plate appearances over the course of the season!

  183. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 1:23 am

    Pat M.
    December 11th, 2009 at 1:00 am
    GB, Eastwood’s character had the same grit and quick wit that’s made you an instition here…..Ex miltitary edge that just made me think of you……I hope lets go yankees will hang around till the season…..Love to watch him and Tricia go toe to toe……

    ————————————————————

    Thanks for that, PAT. Love Eastwood movies. Not sure that he’s ever made a bad one. He’s also become a very good director.

    Not sure that I’m comfortable seeing my name and the word “institution” used in the same sentence. More than one person has made that remark before. Randy may have been the last one to say it.

  184. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 11th, 2009 at 1:29 am

    Nick, explain to me how Delgado is NOT a viable option for the Yankees? He is a free agent and is either a 1B or DH. All indications point to the Yankees signing a free agent that happens to be a DH. Therefore Delgado is one of many options. I am almost positive the Yankee front office has discussed every single free agent on the market. Obviously some more than others.

    No one has been connected to Delgado yet because he has not proved he is healthy. If he shows he is healthy in PR, at that point his name will start floating around.

    It is not like Cashman goes around telling the media who he is or is not considering. Therefore, there is no harm in discussing someone who COULD be a good replacement at DH next year. I never said he will be or he is likely to be. I just started a discussion of it potentially being a good move.

    And it is not like I came up with this out of thin air. Delgado has been discussed at length over on RAB as an option at DH. For some reason the guys who run the blog over there and the posters understand the definition of “option” while over here some people do not.

  185. Pat M. December 11th, 2009 at 1:29 am

    GB, You hang tough tomorrow..You have many friends here who’ll be in you corner with you….And You are an institution here at The LoHud…Besides, nobody wants to tangle with Randy I ( The Original Tin Cup ), you know cathcers are !!!

  186. G-C December 11th, 2009 at 1:32 am

    Damon and Matsui will both be back, bank on it. Damon will sign a reasonable two year deal (~20 million), Matsui will take a discount to come back at 1 year, 7-8 million per.

    Our offense will only improve if we can upgrade at center (we have) and maintain what we had out of LF and DH last year. Adding Granderson and putting Melky in left doesn’t do anything for me.

    Girardi will find Melky a way to get 300-400 at bats, between spotting Granderson against lefties and rotating with Damon and Swish in the outfield.

    It’s pretty phenomenal to me that people are throwing their hands up about the prospect of giving Johnny Damon a 2 year contract. As if having him on the books will completely devastate our prospects for making a FA impact in 2011.

  187. Pat M. December 11th, 2009 at 1:33 am

    Delgado is an option, just not a better one than Matsui that’s all…….

  188. Nick D. December 11th, 2009 at 1:37 am

    He’s an “option” in the same sense that working out a trade for Albert Pujols is an “option.”

    Possible but unlikely.

    Has someone on the Yanks probably mentioned his name in some conversation…sure…but you were pretty vehemently stating earlier that Delgado isn’t simply an “option” but THE option the Yankees should be looking into at DH…then you started qualifying it a lot with his health and saying how you are just saying they should “kick the tires on him.”

    Just saying.

  189. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 11th, 2009 at 1:41 am

    Pat,

    Thank you for at least acknowledging he is an option instead of completely disimissing a good baseball player.

    IMO, there are a ton of factors and a ton of questions that need to be answered before determining who is the better option.

    Is Delgado healthy?
    How are Matsui’s knees doing after an extended season that ended in November?
    How much money will Matsui make?
    How much money will Delgado make?
    What really is the Yankee’s budget?
    Does some other team offer Matsui 2 years?

    etc. etc. etc.

  190. Pat M. December 11th, 2009 at 1:45 am

    G-C, Damon at 2 years wouldn’t be that bad actually, because he could slip into the DH spot in 2011….Melky spells Damon in the 7th for defense……Although I have reservations about how much is left in his tank….He seemed to have several prolonged slumps last season..Mostly in the 2nd half…..

  191. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 11th, 2009 at 1:47 am

    Nick,

    I meant all along that there are scenarios where Delgado IMO is a better option at DH than anyone else out there. This is obviously all contingent on Delgado being healthy because if he is not there is no point. For example a scenario where the Yankees have only $8 million left to spend from here on out. I think Delgado + a pitcher like Duchescher is better than just Matsui.

    I admit I got caught up in all the people calling me crazy for suggesting him and it probably started to sound like I believed he was the best option no matter what.

  192. Nick in SF December 11th, 2009 at 1:47 am

    Every available player is an option, in theory. That doesn’t mean Delgado is a likely option or particularly worthy as a discussion topic.

    And while you could not care less about what Delgado may or may not have done in the Mets clubhouse, that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be a consideration.

    Is the right to be taken seriously when talking about Carlos Delgado as a 2010 DH option really worth going to the mat for on LoHud? I don’t know.

    I prefer Matsui myself. He’s classy and, as far as I know, has not disrespected the country he plays in.

  193. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 11th, 2009 at 1:56 am

    So, people who protest the war disrespect the country? Jeez, myself and many other Americans must disrespect the country then.

    Isn’t your freedom to express your beliefs and your right to protest a core foundation of this country? What Delgado does is in fact VERY American of him.

  194. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 11th, 2009 at 1:59 am

    And I have to say someone who could hit 40 HR next year and has a career 138 OPS+ is definitely at the very least discussion worthy. Those type of guys do not grow on trees.

  195. me December 11th, 2009 at 2:00 am

    this blog is soooooooooooooo nerdy and jewish. worst. i’m a jew but i can’t stand how little personality this blogger has.

  196. Hi! My name is 'm' December 11th, 2009 at 2:02 am

    I “throw my hands up” at even the thought of Damon spending any of 2 years in LF.

    I admit I overvalue defense, sometimes to the detriment of the overall good of the team.

    And I like exciting players and Damon is one of those, but I don’t like adventures in the field. Run prevention is almost as important as run production. Not to say that Johnny costs us games out there, but…

  197. Pat M. December 11th, 2009 at 2:02 am

    One has to think that if Cashman was going down his list for DH candidates and he came to Delgado’s name, he certainly would call Willie Randolph for a reference….Randolph is family….

  198. Pat M. December 11th, 2009 at 2:05 am

    Hi ! My name is ‘m’…..Is this the formerly known as Mel, then m, the Laker fan from Hawaii ????

  199. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 2:07 am

    Pat M.
    December 11th, 2009 at 1:29 am
    GB, You hang tough tomorrow..You have many friends here who’ll be in you corner with you….And You are an institution here at The LoHud…Besides, nobody wants to tangle with Randy I ( The Original Tin Cup ), you know cathcers are !!!

    ————————————————————

    Thanks again, PAT. I’ll let you know the outcome.

    Not to get off-topic, and I’m not sure if you like sports movies, but, there are a couple of movies from the late 90s called “Without Limits” and “Prefontaine”. Both are about the great distance runner, Steve Prefontaine. Bill Bowerman’s part, played by R. Lee Ermey was downplayed in “Prefontaine”, but, Bill Dellinger was played by Ed O’Neill. In “Without Limits”, the story is from Bowerman’s viewpoint. Bowerman was played by Donald Sutherland.

  200. Nick in SF December 11th, 2009 at 2:08 am

    Yes, that was very astute of Delgado to send President Selig the message in the manner in which he did.

    :roll:

    As for your astuteness, I am speaking of Delgado only. No politics, please.

  201. Hi! My name is 'm' December 11th, 2009 at 2:09 am

    Delgado is an American? :P

    Just kidding. Hey, no one really cares why Delgado did what he did (was it really a war protest?). But when you’re living in a foreign country that pays you ungodly sums of money to play what amounts to as a little boys’ game why not be respectful?

    In the end it’s not really a big deal, but why spit in someone’s face when it’s not necessary?

  202. Hi! My name is 'm' December 11th, 2009 at 2:12 am

    Pat,

    Yes, it started off with the person who said “I’m Joe Casale” or something like that…

  203. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 2:15 am

    Pat M.
    December 11th, 2009 at 1:45 am
    G-C, Damon at 2 years wouldn’t be that bad actually, because he could slip into the DH spot in 2011….Melky spells Damon in the 7th for defense……Although I have reservations about how much is left in his tank….He seemed to have several prolonged slumps last season..Mostly in the 2nd half…..

    ————————————————————

    Damon seemed to change his game from speed and finese from 2008 to 2009. Not sure why, but, just a guess that it was because his legs were hurting. He cut his steals by mire than half, though he was perfect. Makes you wonder if he wasn’t having leg issues, much like Jeter did in 2008. Perhaps going for the power to help the team in a different way.

  204. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 11th, 2009 at 2:16 am

    So any immigrant that comes to this country is not allowed to have an opinion on anything except I love America. The only place that flies is in communist countries. In this country we encourage people to express their opinions.

    Since when is it disrespectful to protest? He was exercising his right to free speech and using a public forum to clearly express his displeasure with the war. In this country we tend to encourage people to exercise their constitutional rights

  205. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 2:18 am

    Hi! My name is ‘m’
    December 11th, 2009 at 2:09 am
    Delgado is an American?

    Just kidding. Hey, no one really cares why Delgado did what he did (was it really a war protest?). But when you’re living in a foreign country that pays you ungodly sums of money to play what amounts to as a little boys’ game why not be respectful?

    In the end it’s not really a big deal, but why spit in someone’s face when it’s not necessary?

    ————————————————————

    Delgado is an american citizen. He was born in Puerto Rico….a US territory….much the same as American Somoa and Guam. Much the same as Hawaiian natives were before 1959.

  206. Hi! My name is 'm' December 11th, 2009 at 2:21 am

    I think any immigrant would love to walk a mile in Delgado’s cleats.

    Seriously, this is not about oppression. It’s about appreciating what you have.

    People in general love to protest about wars, but those protesters don’t realize that the U.S. armed forces, past and present, help to preserve that right to protest.

    I’m serious. Is Delgado a US citizen? Tell me that, and I’ll tell you what he can do with his opinion if he’s not.

  207. Hi! My name is 'm' December 11th, 2009 at 2:24 am

    Thanks, GB7.

    That changes it a bit. He’s more than welcome to express his views, just be prepared for the backlash. Can’t expect people to appreciate that POV.

    He still grew up with the basic human rights and civil rights that Americans are afforded. There was US military presence in Puerto Rico that kept its citizens safe from harm? I respect the right to protest, but there’s a time and a place.

  208. Nick in SF December 11th, 2009 at 2:27 am

    Oh my goodness gracious.

    A lecture on the finer points of Delgadoism.

    Goodnight, LoHud. Let’s work together to make tomorrow a smarter day.

  209. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 2:33 am

    Mel, PR is technically a “commonwealth”. They vote in US elections, but, because they are an unincorperated commonwealth, they have to vote on the mainland. They also have quite a war record serving in the US military with 5 Medal Of Honor winners. They pay US Federal taxes.

  210. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 2:40 am

    My error on the voting. They would have to establish a residency in another mainland state to vote by absentee.

  211. Hi! My name is 'm' December 11th, 2009 at 2:43 am

    GB7,

    Thanks for that. Learn something new everyday. I learned SJ’s real identity. Some facts about Puerto Rico. Some very exciting news for my daughter. And hopefully tomorrow we’ll learn that everything’s okay for you. Let me joing the “Good Luck” choruses that people have been shouting all day. Though I don’t know why anyone would care about a grouchy ol’ coot like yourself. ;)

  212. Hi! My name is 'm' December 11th, 2009 at 2:48 am

    And that would be “join”. Just trying to make you feel better. :P

  213. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 2:54 am

    Hi! My name is ‘m’
    December 11th, 2009 at 2:43 am
    GB7,

    Thanks for that. Learn something new everyday. I learned SJ’s real identity. Some facts about Puerto Rico. Some very exciting news for my daughter. And hopefully tomorrow we’ll learn that everything’s okay for you. Let me joing the “Good Luck” choruses that people have been shouting all day. Though I don’t know why anyone would care about a grouchy ol’ coot like yourself.

    ————————————————————

    You’re very welcome, Mel, and thank you for the kind thoughts. By the way…I’m very proud of my “grouchiness”. I’m still wondering whether to be as proud of my “cootiness”.

  214. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 2:57 am

    Hi! My name is ‘m’
    December 11th, 2009 at 2:48 am
    And that would be “join”. Just trying to make you feel better.

    ————————————————————

    I’ve never been “joinged” before, but, it sounds kinky.

  215. Hi! My name is 'm' December 11th, 2009 at 3:09 am

    Don’t try it, you’ll get cooties.

  216. Pat M. December 11th, 2009 at 4:20 am

    Bronx Bombers will resign Masui the dedicated ,professional and a truely Proud Yankee ..

  217. Crawdaddy December 11th, 2009 at 5:34 am

    What a garbage article by George King. Now the Phillies are willing to give up their two best prospects for Halladay.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....EygRE8UcAP

  218. RhapsodyInBlue December 11th, 2009 at 7:11 am

    Jamie Moyer? We could up the ante and throw in Gator.

  219. Mike RI December 11th, 2009 at 7:23 am

    i hope we get Sheets.

  220. upstate kate December 11th, 2009 at 7:39 am

    no trading of Guidry, he is my all time favorite Yankee

  221. Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 11th, 2009 at 7:41 am

    Wow. Verducci is reporting that Cashman first called Detroit to enquire about Granderson on the same day he handed in the roster for game 1 of the world series.
    ******************************
    m,
    I saw Cashman say that during an interview on the MLB Network. He said that being in the WS put the Yankees behind the other teams already talking trades since their off season had already begun.

  222. upstate kate December 11th, 2009 at 7:44 am

    looks like cash made up for lost time :)

  223. Mark in Tampa December 11th, 2009 at 7:58 am

    It appears to me that as the Yankees seem to be falling back in the Halladay race, so does Boston, and vice-versa. I think an acceptable result for both teams is Halladay going anywhere but Boston or NY. Especially since neither want to give up premium talent.

  224. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 8:08 am

    “I think an acceptable result for both teams is Halladay going anywhere but Boston or NY.”

    I suspect the Blue Jays would find it pretty accpetable themselves.

  225. upstate kate December 11th, 2009 at 8:09 am

    I have mixed feelings on Halladay. He would be such a great addition to the pitching staff. On the other hand, I would like Joba and Phil to get the opportunity to pitch, and wouldn’t want to give up either. In my ideal world, we get Halladay next year w/o giving up anyone.

  226. Doreen December 11th, 2009 at 8:15 am

    Fran -

    Man, you and I are on the same wavelength or something. I read all the posts, and the one I was choosing to respond to was the one about Cash calling Detroit right after he finalized the WS roster. :)

    One clarifying point is, I don’t believe he said he called to ask about Granderson specifically. I think he said he called to see what Dombrowski had and Dombrowski gave him a list of players that could be available and Granderson was on that list. A fine point, I admit, but I think an important distinction.

    GB7 -

    Good luck today. You’re in my thoughts and prayers.

  227. Betsy - high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 8:17 am

    Why is it a garbage article, Craw? If it’s true, then the Phillies are the idiots. They are the ones who refused to give up Taylor and Drabek before they even had Cliff Lee – and now they’d give them up to get Halladay now? Also, although Ruben Amaro said that it was highly unlikely that a Doc deal would go down, I think he’s like Cash in that he’s probably just not showing his cards.

  228. Betsy - high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 8:21 am

    On the YES Hot Stove show yesterday, they said the Yankees were still interested in Doc (Kevin Kernan said that Cash is dying to obtain him). Kernan thinks that A.A. overplayed his hand and that the price is eventually going to have to come down……Hal Bodley thinks the Yanks and Sox will get into a bidding war (I don’t see that happening) and another team will sneak in. I don’t remember what Jack Curry said, but he agreed that the Yankees were still interested.

    The offer that the Angels apparently made isn’t true according to the LA Times. Tony Reagins certainly talks a lot – he’s no Cashman. I’m surprised that the Jays want Saunders – he makes zero sense for them. Even if they want to spin him for prospects, who’s going to give up great prospects for Saunders?

  229. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 8:22 am

    “Why is it a garbage article, Craw? If it’s true, then the Phillies are the idiots. They are the ones who refused to give up Taylor and Drabek before they even had Cliff Lee – and now they’d give them up to get Halladay now?”

    They did say they’d only do it if they could lock up Halladay to an extension. They would be keeping their top prospect, Dom Brown. Drabek and Taylor are widely viewed as the #2 and #3 prosepcts in the system. Nothing idiotic about such a deal to me if they can lock him up.

  230. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2009 at 8:22 am

    Every time a writer even suggests that the Yankees should give up Montero for a 33 year old starter with a NTC, he or she is admitting that they know nothing about baseball.

  231. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2009 at 8:24 am

    “On the YES Hot Stove show yesterday…”

    Jack Curry and Bob Lorenz revealed that they are morons.

  232. Doreen December 11th, 2009 at 8:24 am

    upstate kate -

    I like that scenario best regarding Halladay, as well. He could take Pettitte’s place. Well, no one can take Pettitte’s place, but you know what I mean.

    It’s becoming the Santana situation all over again. Neither Boston nor NY will end up with Halladay, but this time, it’s entirely possible that no one does, because it looks like the Jays are not going to lower their demands.

    I think they’re making a mockery of the entire situation and I feel kinda bad for Doc. Of course, they need to try to get the best deal they can, but when you price something too high, no matter how great a product it is, it’s not going to sell.

    In any event, if they don’t trade Doc, they get the benefit of Doc pitching for them. And no matter how disgruntled Halladay might be, I would highly doubt that he wouldn’t approach each start in a very professional manner, giving his best, if not for the team itself, then for his FA prospects when the season is done.

    I think Doc sticks to his guns about not approving a trade after ST. And it won’t go any differently at the trade deadline in 2010 than it did in 2009. The Blue Jays are not going to take just anything even at that point. And the chances that some team is going to give up premium prospects/players for 2-3 month rental is very small.

    And I have no problem with Cashman backing out or backing down or whatever terminology you’d want to use. It’s too expensive and he’s not desperate.

    The only thing that concerns me about Hughes and Joba both being in the rotation next season is the uncertainty about Joba being able to pitch more than 5-6 innings, and how they’re going to position the pitchers within the rotation in order to minimize the load on the bullpen. If they stand pat, they really really need to take a long man right out of spring training, and not wait like they did last season.

  233. Betsy - high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 8:25 am

    How sharp are the Yankees operating these days? On the day he handed in his World Series roster before Game 1, New York GM Brian Cashman called Detroit GM Dave Dombrowski, who was so stunned by the timing he had to ask Cashman, on the eve of the World Series, “Why are you calling me?” Even with his team in the World Series, Cashman was beginning his offseason diligence in an attempt to make the Yankees’ outfield younger and more athletic. That conversation with Dombrowski was the start to Curtis Granderson becoming a Yankee. It’s reminiscent of how John Schuerholz ran the Braves in the 1990s, getting a jump on the market and refusing to play the stalking horse in postseason bidding.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200…ies/index.html

    **That’s funny, lol – but as Cash said, the Yanks were already behind thanks to being in the WS and he didn’t want any more delays. This reminds me of my co-worker who called our office from the delivery room, maybe 10 minutes after she gave birth. We couldn’t believe she called us at that time,lol

  234. Betsy - high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 8:26 am

    Also, I guess the Phils are the favs now to land Doc………it doesn’t appear he cares about having to hit.

  235. Doreen December 11th, 2009 at 8:28 am

    If the Phillies are in on Halladay, they really can’t sign him without an extension because otherwise both he and Cliff Lee are free agents at the end of 2010 and they would be in the position of perhaps losing both these guys PLUS all the prospects it took to get them. Technically, they could resign both as FAs, but how likely is that to happen?

  236. Betsy - high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 8:29 am

    Let me clarify – we have no idea if Doc wants to go to the NL – Verducci is assuming he’s jumping to go there. AJ preferred the AL, how do we know that Doc isn’t the same?

  237. Doreen December 11th, 2009 at 8:35 am

    It just occurred to me that A.A. is not really operating any differently from his predecessor. SAYING you are going to listen to offers from teams within your division is not the same as actually seriously entertaining those offers. All it does is make your fan base THINK you are opening up the market.

    Now, watch the Yankees swoop in and make a liar out of me! :lol:

  238. Betsy - high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 8:38 am

    Doreen, we’ll have to see if A.A. comes down in his demands…….If he doesn’t, then he is a clone of JP.

  239. Mark in Tampa December 11th, 2009 at 8:39 am

    MLBTR yesterday: “Angels GM Tony Reagins didn’t comment on the reported offer of Saunders, Aybar and Bourjos, but two sources shot the rumor down when Mike DiGiovanna of the LA Times asked them about it.

    Reagins said the Blue Jays have targeted Saunders, Bourjos and Mike Napoli. It’s even “possible” that the deal could be expanded to send more Blue Jays to Anaheim.”

    If the Angels wanted to send Saunders, Aybar, and Bourjos, but the Jays wanted Napoli instead of Aybar; I don’t know what the holdup is. Napoli is a decent catcher, but he’s not a deal breaker, IMO. I would have to say this rumor is bogus.

  240. 86w183 December 11th, 2009 at 8:41 am

    Exactly Betsy, there’s a chance Doc told the Jays he’ll go to the Yankees and only the Yankees…. or at least to this point maybe that’s the only team he gave a nod too. OR he might have gone further and asked to be traded which would further motivate Toronto to take what it could.

    Cashman appears to be playing this as if he knows something, and that could be it. I still have a feeling the Yanks end up with Doc for a package similar to McAllister, Romine, Melancon plus Nunez or Betances. Excellent prospects but not the best of the best.

  241. Betsy - high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 8:41 am

    Good stuff on the Yankees…….and all true.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....lMmACBuVVP

    The most appealing option for another starter is, of course, Halladay. Executives involved in the negotiations say the prices are currently too high for Toronto to complete a deal. The Yankees, for example, say they would not include top hitting prospect Jesus Montero and/or either Hughes or Chamberlain as the headliners to a package.

    But what winning the Winter Meetings means is the Yankees can wait. They believe Toronto — regardless of the rhetoric –must trade its ace. So at some point between now and spring training if the Jays can’t get their price, then that price will begin to fall. If it falls far enough, the Yankees will pounce. If not, they will continue to see if a reclamation project they have interest in, such as Ben Sheets, drops his price.

    *****

    Sheets might take awhile, too – so perhaps the Yanks can afford to wait. Also, I’m sure they are still talking to Toronto…..and I know Cash asked A.A. to give him a chance to match or better any offer the Jays get that they’d be inclined to accept.

  242. vinny-b December 11th, 2009 at 8:42 am

    “It appears to me that as the Yankees seem to be falling back in the Halladay race, so does Boston, and vice-versa. I think an acceptable result for both teams is Halladay going anywhere but Boston or NY”
    ————————————-

    fine by me. Tired of viewing Jesus Montero’s name

  243. vinny-b December 11th, 2009 at 8:43 am

    the YES Hot Stove show mentioned the liklihood of Melky bein traded. For what it’s worth (basically nothing)

  244. Erin December 11th, 2009 at 8:46 am

    The Yankees, for example, say they would not include top hitting prospect Jesus Montero and/or either Hughes or Chamberlain as the headliners to a package.

    *****************
    It would be awesome if they could pull this off. The whole reason I’m not big on them getting Halladay right now is because I don’t want to see any of the above three go.

  245. vinny-b December 11th, 2009 at 8:46 am

    “Jack Curry and Bob Lorenz revealed that they are morons”
    ——————————————–

    yes. Bob Lorenz in particular. He threw Jesus Montero’s name around like he was some scrub. Then when he referred to Andy Pettitte as a “comfortable old shoe” i wanted to put my shoe up his ***

  246. Doreen December 11th, 2009 at 8:47 am

    Betsy -

    Yes, that’s the key. If he ends up lowering his demands. If the Angels say no deal, then I suspect if they really want to deal Halladay, the price will have to be lowered. Still, always a chance that they like whatever they end up getting elsewhere better than what the Yankees are willing to part with. And in that case, c’est la vie. :)

  247. raymagnetic December 11th, 2009 at 8:48 am

    I have a feeling Cashman would trade 1 of Huges/Montero/Joba for Halladay.

    I don’t think he would trade 2 of them in a package however. Just yesterday Cashman said he would trade ANYBODY for the right player.

    I also don’t believe their are “favorites” to land Halladay. Halladay would be gone already if their was a favorite offer out there.

  248. Doreen December 11th, 2009 at 8:50 am

    raymagnetic -

    I agree, and I’m chuckling a little because I was thinking the same thing in a different way – the “favorite” seems to be whatever team made the latest offer. :)

  249. Doreen December 11th, 2009 at 8:53 am

    Well, time to go out into the cold and finish up my gift shopping. I suspect this is going to be a slow day for baseball news. (Yet another busy day for baseball rumors!)

  250. upstate kate December 11th, 2009 at 8:59 am

    What is up w/ GB? Is he OK?

    Gotta be tough for the Jays to try to get some value for Hallady, in what is a limited market between the cost in $$ and players and his NTC.

  251. CUZ December 11th, 2009 at 9:08 am

    Not buying the Phils rumor. If they are offering that package for Halladay, why wouldn’t the Jays take that.IMO,
    3 reasons. Phils can’t sign him, the offer is not there, or He really won’t go the NL

  252. Just call me Mr. Clutch December 11th, 2009 at 9:10 am

    Far too often the reports of possible trades are presented as if they are a race. That isn’t what a negotiation is like. Even saying they are close to being done and then giving a percentage is just rhetoric to get people’s notice.

    The only way a trade is close is when the principle pieces have been agreed to and minor things need to be done, such as physicals or minor players that may be included.

    Calling anyone a front runner is deceptive. Saying a team looks to have presented the best package while accurate sounds dull, like there is no action.

    Like all the reports coming out about the Granderson trade. It was regularly updated as if someone in the room was sticking their heads out the door and reporting on a horse race. The only way anyone outside the room would know anything about the process would be if they were sitting by the door listening into the talks.

    Its probably all about creating excitement during the lulls between deals becoming reality or falling apart.

  253. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2009 at 9:17 am

    “I don’t think he would trade 2 of them in a package however. Just yesterday Cashman said he would trade ANYBODY for the right player.”

    He probably would Hughes or Joba for Felix Hernandez, or Montero for Josh Johnson and Hanley Ramirez.

    /sarcasm

  254. Just call me Mr. Clutch December 11th, 2009 at 9:44 am

    I don’t think Halladay would have a big problem going to the NL. It didn’t sound as though that is his preference, as he said he didn’t like to bat.

    The Phillies might go for a one year rental if they think that this coming year would be their last real shot at getting another championship. With their team, I don’t think that is quite the case. They do have some players coming up on FA, which they may want to try to keep, they also seem like they want to sign Lee to an extension.

    If the Phillies believe they can be able to contend for a couple of years then trading for Halladay doesn’t make a lot of sense for them. They couldn’t afford to extend both Lee and Halladay contracts as they just don’t have the economic base for that kind of jump in their payroll. Trading players that are positioned to help then in their quest to contend longer term can cut short their asperations as well.

  255. Tom B December 11th, 2009 at 10:19 am

    All of you talking about Delgado clearly don’t pay any attention to what the Yankee FO does or how they operate.

    please, please stop talking about him before someone hears you…


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