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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Four days, four decisions

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 11, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Yesterday was a long one. It was the shortest day of the Winter Meetings, but when it suddenly included a cancelled flight and an unexpected connecting flight through Washington D.C., I thought it would never end.

But, of course, it did end. And so did the meetings.

This was an overwhelmingly successful week for the Yankees. Far more successful than I think anyone could have expected. Let’s look back on four days in Indianapolis, each of which included a significant decision by the Yankees.

Monday: Trading Brian Bruney 
The Yankees entered the Winter Meetings with a wealth of solid pitching, but a thin big league bench. Trading Bruney let them deal from a position of strength to address a position of weakness. Why should Bruney be the one to go? His salary should be around $2 million next year, he was expendable enough to keep off the roster through most of the playoffs,  and the Yankees have plenty of other right-handed options on the roster. Plus, Bruney carried enough weight on the trade market to bring back something of value.

Tuesday: Adding Curtis Granderson
The Yankees held out for roughly a month. Initial Granderson proposals called for more than the Yankees were willing to give, but eventually the price came down and the Yankees were willing to move. Brian Cashman doesn’t move prospects easily — he previously turned down an offer of Jarrod Washburn for Austin Jackson — but in this situation, he essentially replaced Jackson’s role in the organization with a more powerful, proven alternative. I’m a big believer in Ian Kennedy — more so than most — but the package of Jackson, Kennedy and Phil Coke was a fair price for Granderson. The Yankees addressed a hole in their outfield and gained some leverage for free agent discussions. I hate trading away prospects, but I like this move.

Wednesday: Signing Andy Pettitte
The move wasn’t much of a surprise. I think everyone expected this deal to get done eventually, but the key was doing it sooner rather than later. In case anyone needed reminding, Pettitte proved his worth in the postseason. The one-year deal is worth slightly more money than I expected, but not significantly. The rotation was the Yankees primary concern this winter, Pettitte was their No. 1 target and the deal was done hardly a month after the World Series. That’s a very good thing.

Thursday: Choosing Jamie Hoffmann
There might have been some higher ceiling players available, but the Yankees aren’t in a position to hold a roster spot for a Low-A reliever, being patient while he works toward becoming a legitimate major leaguer. They need a guy who can contribute right now. They also need some help on the bench, and a right-handed outfielder is a plus. That’s why Hoffmann made so much sense. “In our roster situation and where we’re at in terms of competing, he’s a guy we’re hoping can be number 25 on the roster and give Joe some choices,” Cashman said.

Comments

comments

 

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196 Responses to “Four days, four decisions”

  1. Doreen December 11th, 2009 at 9:09 am

    Chad -

    Welcome back!

    It was a good week for the Yankees. I love a plan, and the Yankees seem to have one, while retaining flexibility of thought within that plan. The good news was the Yankees were willing to trade some prospects to get better; the bad news was the Yankees were willing trade prospects to get better. :? (I had hopes for Kennedy, too.)

  2. Mark in Tampa December 11th, 2009 at 9:12 am

    If Hoffman is going to stick as the 4th outfielder, that will make Gardner expendable, I guess. Does he have any options, or would he have to be released/traded?

    However, I see Gardner as a nearly ideal 4th outfielder. He can contribute as a pinch runner nearly every day that he is not in the lineup, as well as make the late inning defense better. Hoffman may have some power, but the Yankees already have a lot of that. Power is also hard to count on in a sporadic role, speed can show up every day.

    I would at least like to see a ST competition to make sure this guy can play before trading Gardner. I also think Gardner is worth more to the Yanks as a 4th OF than he would bring back in a trade.

  3. RonH December 11th, 2009 at 9:17 am

    Chad, excellent job by you and Sam. Thanks!
    Hope you have a chance to rest up a bit.

  4. Erin December 11th, 2009 at 9:19 am

    Very nice week for the Yankees. I would say the winter meetings were a success.

    Chad, glad to hear you finally made it home!

  5. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 9:20 am

    “If Hoffman is going to stick as the 4th outfielder, that will make Gardner expendable, I guess. Does he have any options, or would he have to be released/traded?”

    Think he can still be sent to AAA.

  6. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 9:22 am

    Chad-
    Any news on the upcoming decision on Wang ?

  7. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 9:24 am

    “Any news on the upcoming decision on Wang ?”

    It’s a virtual lock that he’s non tendered.

    Doesn’t mean the Yankees can’t re-sign him though.

  8. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2009 at 9:24 am

    I really hope they can reach a low base, incentivized contractual agreement with Wang.

  9. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 9:26 am

    Squid-
    Do you think they will sign to a Minor league, or does he just move on ?

  10. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 9:31 am

    Yeah, Gardner can go back to AAA. If the Royals truly are interested in him maybe the Yankees work out a deal where they send him and a prospect (Juan Miranda) to KC for David DeJesus and Juan Cruz’s contract.

    That said, I still think that the most likely scenario has the Yankees signing Damon (2 years $20 mil) and using either him or Swisher at DH with Melky in one of the corners and Hoffmann as the 4th outfielder.

    I don’t know how much of it is Cashman blowing smoke, but he seems to think that Hoffmann has a pretty strong upside and could be a potential starter for this team. That would certainly be nice.

    The only way this changes in my mind is if on Saturday the Marlins non-tender Dan Uggla or the Nats non-tender Josh Willingham and the Yankees decide that they want some right handed power in the lineup and will one of them in LF or DH. I still see them bringing back Damon, but at that point Melky becomes the odd man out and is probably moved for either a relief pitcher or some minor leaguers.

  11. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 9:32 am

    I really hope they can reach a low base, incentivized contractual agreement with Wang.

    I think Wang’s going to have a lot of options when he hits the market.

  12. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 9:34 am

    Gardner to the White Sox for Matt Thornton ?

  13. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 9:34 am

    “Do you think they will sign to a Minor league, or does he just move on ?”

    I don’t know. I suppose they’d like to. I wonder whether it’s feasible for them to offer a deal similar to the one they gave Jon Lieber 6-7 years ago.

  14. Mark in Tampa December 11th, 2009 at 9:34 am

    Chip,

    How is it that every topic you address ends up with the Yankees somehow getting DeJesus, Randy Winn, or some other spare part OF? :)

  15. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 9:35 am

    “Gardner to the White Sox for Matt Thornton ?”

    Sadly, that would elicit nothing more than chuckles from the Kenny Williams.

  16. Mark in Tampa December 11th, 2009 at 9:36 am

    “Gardner to the White Sox for Matt Thornton?”

    I guess if the CWS did Swisher-Betemit, anything is possible, but Thornton should cost a lot more than Gardner.

  17. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 9:37 am

    Ok. Gargner and another spare part. The Sox have reported interest in Gardner and Thornton would be a great addition to the BP.

  18. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 9:38 am

    Sorry Gardner. Can’t spell.

  19. Mark in Tampa December 11th, 2009 at 9:39 am

    From CMW’s perspective, if the Yankees only offered me a minor-league deal, I would exhaust every possibility of going anywhere else before accepting.

  20. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 9:39 am

    “I guess if the CWS did Swisher-Betemit, anything is possible, but Thornton should cost a lot more than Gardner.”

    Good point. But the White Sox couldn’t get rid of Swisher fast enough for whatever reasons (he sucked and Ozzie hated him were two). They love Thornton.

  21. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 9:43 am

    Maybe they need a young, fast cost-controlled center fielder too. They love Posednik types there.

  22. Patrick from CT December 11th, 2009 at 9:44 am

    Johnnie D on a 1 year 9-10mil with a team option and buyout to be the DH and part time LF.

    I think Melky remains with the team, starts in OF at least 2/3rds of the games.

    Gardy and the new guy will compete in the spring for the last OF spot.

    The Yankees do also need another starter, reliever, and RH power bat off the bench.

  23. CountryClub December 11th, 2009 at 9:44 am

    How sharp are the Yankees operating these days? On the day he handed in his World Series roster before Game 1, New York GM Brian Cashman called Detroit GM Dave Dombrowski, who was so stunned by the timing he had to ask Cashman, on the eve of the World Series, “Why are you calling me?” Even with his team in the World Series, Cashman was beginning his offseason diligence in an attempt to make the Yankees’ outfield younger and more athletic. That conversation with Dombrowski was the start to Curtis Granderson becoming a Yankee. It’s reminiscent of how John Schuerholz ran the Braves in the 1990s, getting a jump on the market and refusing to play the stalking horse in postseason bidding.

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....z0ZOKxCCQ5
    Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription

  24. braeden December 11th, 2009 at 9:45 am

    Bruney goes from being the pegged set up guy for Mariano,to the Nationals.I wish him well.a-z

    Getting Granderson,a highly valued player to Detroit,on and off the field.Helped the Yankees get a much needed younger player.

    Cashman is becoming quite the negotiator.AA is getting schooled by Cashman.He won’t be a factor after Halladay is gone next year.

  25. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 9:45 am

    MTU:

    They can have Podsednik if they need Podsednik types. Either way, they aren’t trading Thornton in a deal with Brett Gardner as the centerpiece.

  26. Mark in Tampa December 11th, 2009 at 9:45 am

    Not Gardner and another spare part. Think Gardner and Robertson, or similar.

    Thornton is 33, which is not old for his role, made 1.3M last year, and is a LH reliever who throws 98. He gives up way less than a hit per inning and strikes out way more than 1 per inning. There is zero motivation to trade him.

    If Kenny Williams goes temporarily insane, though, I would be happy for the Yankees to take him off their hands.

  27. Joe from CT December 11th, 2009 at 9:48 am

    My Prediction for the 25 Man Roster:

    SP- CC
    AJ
    Pettitte
    Lackey
    Joba

    RP- Aceves
    Robertson
    Dunn
    Marte
    Gaudin
    Hughes
    Melancon
    Mo

    INF- Cano
    Jeter
    Teixeira
    A-Rod
    Pena

    C- Posada
    Cervelli

    OF- Swish
    Grandy
    Melky
    Damon
    Gardner/Hoffmann

    Let me know what you guys think!!

  28. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 9:48 am

    Mark-
    Swisher says hello.

  29. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2009 at 9:50 am

    Robertson is virtually untouchable.

  30. Erin December 11th, 2009 at 9:52 am

    Rich in NJ
    December 11th, 2009 at 9:50 am
    Robertson is virtually untouchable.

    ******************
    I agree-I can’t see Robertson going anywhere

  31. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 9:52 am

    How is it that every topic you address ends up with the Yankees somehow getting DeJesus, Randy Winn, or some other spare part OF?

    Mark, at least I’m consistant ;-)

    I can’t see the Sox giving up Thornton.

    Maybe Gardner to the Cubs for Sean Marshall?

  32. Just call me Mr. Clutch December 11th, 2009 at 9:54 am

    I don’t really think much of the Bruney deal. Granted it got them much higher in the rule 5 draft than they could ever hope for, it just doesn’t have that much value.

    From what some had reported during the Bruney “trade”, he was going to be let go anyway. Still, you would think that a team would trade a prospect of a lower level for him that would have more value than a draft 5 pick that could just be sent back to the team he came from, wiping out the small value that pick has.

    Bruney wasn’t great, but I think he would have more value than essentially 25 – 50 K dollars. He is being talked of as a possible closer for the Nationals, granted a stretch, but worth more than a PTBNL that the Nationals didn’t even have? That was no real cost to the Nationals in the end.

  33. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 9:55 am

    Mark –

    I think that if the White Sox were willing to give up Thornton in a package featuring Gardner they would just re-sign Podsednik instead.

  34. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 9:57 am

    “Robertson is virtually untouchable.”

    Seems a bit of a stretch for a guy with 70 career MLB innings who puts 12.5 guys on base per nine innings.

  35. Mark in Tampa December 11th, 2009 at 9:58 am

    I am not advocating Gardner and Robertson for Thornton, I am just saying that a package like that is probably what it would take to get him.

    If they would take Kei and Brett, however, I would even throw in a new pair of shades myself. :)

  36. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 10:00 am

    Seems a bit of a stretch for a guy with 70 career MLB innings who puts 12.5 guys on base per nine innings.

    Agreed – I like the kid’s upside but there are very few players who are “untouchable” and middle relievers are never in that class. There are some people who get obsessed with the idea of hanging onto every Yankee prospect.

  37. upstate kate December 11th, 2009 at 10:01 am

    Joe from CT
    I like most of your roster.
    you would put Hughes in the pen over Joba? not sure I agree w/ that.
    Has much been said about Lackey lately? I am thinking the Angels try to keep him.

  38. Tom B December 11th, 2009 at 10:02 am

    why do people have hughes back in the bullpen?

  39. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 10:04 am

    How about Igawa, Gardner, PJ Pilliterre and cash to the Marlins for Hunter Jones and either Dan Uggla or Alfredo Amezega?

    The Marlins are likely going to non-tender either or both of Uggla and Amezega rather than pay them huge arbitration awards

  40. Joe from CT December 11th, 2009 at 10:05 am

    I cant see them going with both Hughes and Joba in the rotation. Im hoping for Lackey, I do not really like Sheets much considering his track record of getting hurt so often

  41. Crawdaddy December 11th, 2009 at 10:05 am

    I’ll be surprise if Cashman trades Gardner or Melky until he has Damon or whomever signed first.

  42. vinny-b December 11th, 2009 at 10:05 am

    either way doesn’t matter. NYY is not trading David Robertson

  43. Andrew December 11th, 2009 at 10:06 am

    Robertson as untouchable is not that much of a stretch because he is literally a perfect fit for the Yankees bullpen right now. He is cheap (they prefer to invest their money elsewhere on the roster, wisely) and he strikes out a ton of guys. He is the leading candidate for the role of 8th inning guy right now, pending any further moves and whether or not one of Joba or Hughes is sent to the bullpen. My only concern with him is his elbow and its long-term health. But if he’s feeling good, he is good enough to be an anchor in the bullpen in 2010.

  44. Joe from CT December 11th, 2009 at 10:06 am

    And considering Hughes success in the pen minus the postseason I would like to see him a full year in the pen. They went through all the “joba rules” and to go back and put him in the pen seems a little dumb to me

  45. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 10:07 am

    The White Sox apparently love Gardner. Blind love is one of the only things I could think that might allow KW to trade a guy like Thornton.

    That’d be a slick trade on Cash’s part. He also works really well with KW, as every article mentions. Other than teams giving Cash ‘the yankee tax’, he does have a really good relationship with most GMs in the league. Thats why Cash is the ninja.

  46. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 10:08 am

    “The Marlins are likely going to non-tender either or both of Uggla and Amezega rather than pay them huge arbitration awards”

    True. But I’d also assume they’d like to pay Igawa $0.00 rather than $4,000,000.00

  47. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 10:11 am

    jerkface-
    That’s why I mentioned gardner, etc. for Thornton.That, I think Gardner will be expendable.

  48. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 10:11 am

    that “and”

  49. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 10:12 am

    True. But I’d also assume they’d like to pay Igawa $0.00 rather than $4,000,000.00

    Yankees could pick up the tab on Igawa to make it happen. Plus Igawa might actually have some value if he gets out of the AL and into the NL.

  50. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 10:13 am

    Andrew:

    I agree Robertson’s cheap and strikes out a lot of guys, but he’s not yet a shut down reliever and may never be. Love the K’s, but he lives dangerously. Too many walks (almost 5 per 9) and too many men on base. K’s help mitigate that, but sooner or later walks kill.

  51. Betsy -high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 10:13 am

    Chad, excellent summary.

    Cash showed himself at his best in the Granderson negotiations. Notice how the Tigers asked for Ellsbury and Bucholz from the Sox……Now, either the Sox walked away because Theo wasn’t as good as Cash at convincing the Tigers to reduce their demands (Cash is very good at calling another GM’s bluff and/or walking away genuinely when the price is too rich for his blood – in this case, the Tigers blinked first) or the Tigers at the time weren’t as desperate to get rid of Granderson’s contract.

    The key with Cash is that I think he’s tired of players and other teams walking all over the Yankees, knowing that they will pay whatever it takes for what they want. There’s a new sheriff in town, though – Cash won’t do that. If the Yankees can’t get what they want at the price they want, then they will move on to plans B, C, etc….. They aren’t desperate any more – Cash is a shrewd GM, he really is.

    One more move that I’m waiting to be made official is that of the signing of Kevin Towers…….that would be outstanding.

  52. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 10:15 am

    Squid-
    I agree. Robertson is not a fully proven commodity yet. He still has that tendency to miss the plate too much. Gotta love the guy’s stuff and presence on the mound though.

  53. Betsy -high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 10:16 am

    I don’t in any way see the Yankees giving Damon 2 years at $10 million each; that would be a mistake. I only want him back for 1 year (at most, 1 and a team option)…

  54. Tom in NJ December 11th, 2009 at 10:17 am

    “The Marlins are likely going to non-tender either or both of Uggla and Amezega rather than pay them huge arbitration awards”

    Alfredo Amezaga is recovering from microfracture knee surgery. He missed most of last year and hasn’t even begun running yet. Plus, when he was healthy he wasn’t really that good- .652 career OPS. He is also almost 32. He should be non-tendered.

    And, Uggla, according to MLBTR, ” the non-tender deadline is tomorrow at 11pm CST, that shouldn’t have any bearing on the Marlins’ attempts to deal their second baseman. They’ve been a lock to tender him a contract all along.”

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

  55. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 10:17 am

    With rumors of the White Sox wanting to sign JJ Putz and moving Jenks out to clear the salary plus arbitration, so the can put Putz or Thornton is as the closer, a deal involving Gardner and other(s) might be arranged.

  56. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 10:20 am

    Robertson is not untouchable, but I don’t think he is a mere throw in on a trade that isn’t bringing back Roy Halladay or Carl Crawford. He led the AL in K/9 in his second year in the majors. He proved his worth in the playoffs. Relievers are volatile and I don’t think Cash would swap a younger, cost controlled, and completely baller righty like Robertson for another older reliever.

    I guess in that sense you could say he is untouchable, until the right deal comes along.

    That would be like Cash finally has Anthopolis down to Romine, McCallister, and whatever, and then says, you know what we can give you Robertson if it makes you get this done.

  57. Laura - Bring back Matsui in 2010! December 11th, 2009 at 10:20 am

    Cashman used to get tared and feathered around here, but the truth of the matter is that he’s a very good GM. He’s made some mistakes (hello, Carl Pavano!), but for the most part, he’s been very good.

  58. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 10:21 am

    Tom in NJ
    December 11th, 2009 at 10:17 am
    “The Marlins are likely going to non-tender either or both of Uggla and Amezega rather than pay them huge arbitration awards”

    Alfredo Amezaga is recovering from microfracture knee surgery. He missed most of last year and hasn’t even begun running yet. Plus, when he was healthy he wasn’t really that good- .652 career OPS. He is also almost 32. He should be non-tendered.

    And, Uggla, according to MLBTR, ” the non-tender deadline is tomorrow at 11pm CST, that shouldn’t have any bearing on the Marlins’ attempts to deal their second baseman. They’ve been a lock to tender him a contract all along.”
    ————————–

    Tom – Didn’t know that about Amezaga – thanks. As for Uggla, who knows – maybe the Marlins do tender him and then get scared by the number he throws out there and that makes him easier to get in trade…anything’s possible I suppose.

  59. Betsy -high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 10:22 am

    Joe, that’s a terrible idea, I’m sorry. Phil is NOT a reliever – he’s going to be a terrific starter. I will be royally PO’d if he spends any time in the pen this year.

  60. Betsy -high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 10:23 am

    The Yankees seem to have little interest in Lackey and either do I. He’s a Texas boy and I think that his first preference is to go home; after that, perhaps the Angels. They seem to be consumed with Halladay at the present moment, though.

  61. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 10:23 am

    The Marlins won’t non-tender Uggla. There are too many suitors. If they get scared by what Uggla’s agent is throwing around numbers wise they’ll trade him.

    San Fransisco is hot on him.

  62. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 10:23 am

    Betsy:

    Key to that deal was getting Arizona in it. Never would have happened without them because Ajax/Kennedy/Coke was not good enough. Some luck involved as Arizona had interest in Jackson and were stunningly willing to part with Scherzer, which is really what allowed this to come together. In the end, Scherzer and Jackson isn’t a much different than Buccholtz/Ellsbury. Tigers made out quite well in this deal.

  63. Betsy -high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 10:24 am

    It wasn’t Cash’s fault Pavano turned into a disaster…..there was nothing wrong with the move at the time.

  64. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 10:26 am

    I’ve also heard that with the numbers for Bay and Holliday being high that San Fran is pretty high on Damon too.

    I think 2 years $20 mil is fair given what Bobby Abreu got from the Angels.

  65. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 10:27 am

    “The Marlins won’t non-tender Uggla.”

    Apparently some dialogue with the Giants ongoing. Sanchez for Uggla maybe???

  66. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 10:27 am

    I will be royally PO’d if he spends any time in the pen this year.

    I think Cash will consider this highly. But I agree with you on everything related to Phil Hughes. The man needs to start.

  67. Mike RI December 11th, 2009 at 10:27 am

    I don’t in any way see the Yankees giving Damon 2 years at $10 million each; that would be a mistake. I only want him back for 1 year (at most, 1 and a team option)…

    - Betsy

    Damon signing anywhere will require at least 2 years. 2 years at 10 million a piece is a bargin. Damon can still play, I believe he has 2 solid years left. His defense is a wash because Melky Hoffman or Gardner will replace him in the later innings.

  68. upstate kate December 11th, 2009 at 10:27 am

    Maybe the Angels are saying they are interested in Halladay to entice Lackey to accept their offer.

  69. Betsy -high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 10:28 am

    Squid, good point, but still – the Tigers caved on Dunn and Cervelli at the very least.

  70. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 10:28 am

    Betsy-
    I know you love Phil however if the Yanks get another starter like sheets for instance, or duchsherer somebody will have to be the odd man odd for the rotation right ? Some people think that Joba will go to the pen instead of phil. But my bet is that joba and Phil will both come to camp ready to compete, and since Joba has the higher innings limit he will wind up as the # 5.

  71. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 10:29 am

    It wasn’t Cash’s fault Pavano turned into a disaster…..there was nothing wrong with the move at the time.

    Agreed – Carl Pavano was considered the cream of the free agent crop that year (along with Matt Clement) and the Yankees were praised from all corners for getting him. It just didn’t work out.

    My biggest Cashman gaffe is still his decision to bring in an old Randy Johnson rather than Carlos Beltran.

  72. Ham Fighters December 11th, 2009 at 10:30 am

    not a chance uggla gets nt’d, he’s florida’s main chip. sure, they are not going to pay him, they will instead restock the farm with what they get back for him, because that’s what the marlins do.

  73. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 10:30 am

    Sorry odd man out.

  74. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 10:30 am

    The Tigers, by the way, are going to give Phil Coke a chance to win a spot in their rotation.

  75. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 10:31 am

    MTU-

    In that case, if they REALLY have another starter ready to go that beats out Phil in camp, then Phil would go to AAA.

  76. Ham Fighters December 11th, 2009 at 10:32 am

    as much as i’ve always hated randy (the quitter) johnson, that also was not a horrible trade. he won alot of games here and was pretty much exactly what you had to expect from him, a very good pitcher and a cancer in the clubhouse.

  77. Betsy -high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 10:33 am

    Mike, I disagree……but we will see what the Yankees think. Either way, Johnny makes up his mind quickly or the Yankees move on – he has zero leverage here and he’d better realize it soon if he wants to come back.

  78. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 10:33 am

    “It wasn’t Cash’s fault Pavano turned into a disaster…..there was nothing wrong with the move at the time.”

    Pavano was kind of an injury prone, one hit wonder at the time. Bad free agent pitching market that year and Cash signed the leper with the most fingers. Still wasn’t a very bright deal.

  79. Betsy -high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 10:34 am

    Chip, that was on George….Cash wanted Beltran.

  80. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 10:34 am

    I think there’s a good chance Hughes will start and Joba will move to the pen. My reasoning is that for the first time in three years Cashman is starting to waver on his stance that Joba is a starter.

  81. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 10:34 am

    The yankees didn’t give up anything of any real value other than Javier Vasquez, who I think got a bum shake in NY.

  82. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 10:34 am

    Jerkface-
    Which makes more sense for Phil bullpen with spot starts, or triple AAA ? Most people here do not see Phil going back to the minors. I personally do not think it would be awful as long as he works on his change, and knows he will be back at a prescribed point in time.

  83. Joe from CT December 11th, 2009 at 10:34 am

    Betsy,

    So if you want Phil in the rotation do you not think they are going to sign another SP? Cash has been stressing SP as a number 1 priority, yes Andy filled a big hole but everyone knew he was coming back. As MTU said if we sign another SP, Lackey, Sheets, Ducse etc. do you think Joba will go to the pen even after all of the work they did on him last year working up his innings. I find that hard to believe since Phil was dominant in the 8th right before Mo, it makes the game 7 innings

  84. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 10:35 am

    Chip, that was on George….Cash wanted Beltran.

    Oh man I totally forgot about this. Now I’m depressed. We’d have won a number of WS by now if we had Carlos Beltran and Javier Vazquez instead of Randy Johnson and ‘corpse of bernie williams’ and ‘growing pains melky’

  85. Rishi December 11th, 2009 at 10:36 am

    Great analysis of the big trade:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

  86. Rishi December 11th, 2009 at 10:37 am

    Well, now the Yankees have a guy who I think is a superstar in center field … and not just any superstar, but a likable superstar who plays great defense (it was popular in New York to call Melky an above-average defensive center fielder — well, they’re about to see what one really looks like), who is an excellent base runner, who pulls the ball with power …

    Judge the trade? The Tigers got a couple of good arms and unloaded payroll. The Diamondbacks got … well, they got burned, I think.

    And the Yankees?

    They’ll be calling it Granderson Central Station by June.

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....z0ZOYEU3Le
    Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription

  87. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 10:38 am

    as much as i’ve always hated randy (the quitter) johnson, that also was not a horrible trade.

    The trade itself was fine (though I think Javy Vazquez got a raw deal here, but that’s another rant about Torre and Mel) I was just annoyed that the Yankees passed on a stud CF in his prime for an aged pitcher.

  88. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 10:38 am

    Which makes more sense for Phil bullpen with spot starts, or triple AAA ? Most people here do not see Phil going back to the minors. I personally do not think it would be awful as long as he works on his change, and knows he will be back at a prescribed point in time.

    AAA, because he needs to start getting a starter’s workload. I’d send him to AAA with the knowledge that he is the next available pitcher and that he needs to work on his change and curve.

    He is going to carve up the minors regardless, but you can’t have him sit in the bullpen being the setup guy. That was a good confidence booster for last season, but I don’t think he survives another season of it.

    And I don’t think the Yankees are keen on losing Phil Hughes the starter, because everything in his career (other than 2008) has suggested he would be a really, really good starter.

  89. Ham Fighters December 11th, 2009 at 10:39 am

    theres no sense in speculating about who would be the odd man out if they pick up another SP. there’s a mechanism for making that decision and its called spring training. you let them compete for the job and the best man gets the rotation spot.

    my take is that joba had better be recommited to being in shape and ready to compete or not only phil but others will pass him on the depth chart.

  90. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 10:40 am

    The Diamondbacks got … well, they got burned, I think.

    Listening to Arizona I think they made the deal with their fingers crossed. If Max Scherzer turns into the next Justin Verlander then this is an awful trade for Arizona, but if the D’backs are right and Scherzer becomes the next Joel Zumaya then this is a big win for them.

  91. Phil December 11th, 2009 at 10:41 am

    I don’t think the Yanks will sign any other starters till they know what’s happening with Halladay.

  92. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 10:43 am

    Listening to Arizona I think they made the deal with their fingers crossed. If Max Scherzer turns into the next Justin Verlander then this is an awful trade for Arizona, but if the D’backs are right and Scherzer becomes the next Joel Zumaya then this is a big win for them.

    Jackson pitching more innings than Scherzer for the D-Backs is probably a loss overall. It only works if Scherzer becomes a reliever *this season* and they value Ian Kennedy over Scherzer.

    The only way they ‘win’ the trade is if Scherzer turns into nothing, Schlerath becomes nothing, and Ian Kennedy owns.

  93. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 10:43 am

    I don’t know how many of you are listening to Joe and Evan on WFAN right now but they’re debating whether the Mets should trade Reyes for Halladay. Joe says “yes,” Evan says that he would be for it if you could tell him who they would replace Reyes with.

    How about this: Orlando Cabrera?

    Imagine the Mets with Santana and Halladay and a lineup with Cabrera, Bay and Molina added in? I’m sure it would turn out badly for them, but still it would get them some headlines.

  94. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 10:44 am

    Rishi, Granderson is not a superstar. He’s a very, very good player who does a lot of things very well, but features no phase of his game that is great. He clearly makes the Yankees a better team, particularly in the area of run prevention, but let’s not go crazy.

  95. Mike RI December 11th, 2009 at 10:44 am

    Phil,

    lets say Halladay stays north of the border. Who do you see the Yanks getting ?

  96. Tom in NJ December 11th, 2009 at 10:45 am

    Does Hughes have any options left?

    Can he be sent down to the minors again?

  97. Phil December 11th, 2009 at 10:46 am

    Mike,

    Maybe Sheets. They tried to get him several times when he was a Brewer.

  98. upstate kate December 11th, 2009 at 10:46 am

    Rishi
    thanks for the link. Now I am even more excited to see Granderson play. I love the description of melky as the “Yankee who just does his job”, which he certainly does.

    good points on the SP. I could see Hughes starting in AAA, so he can work on pitches and have his innings limited. He is too good a pitcher to waste as the EIG. Hopefully this year was a wake up call to Joba to come to camp in shape.

  99. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 10:47 am

    Yankees really just need to make two more moves and then the winter will be a complete win as far as I’m concerned.

    Damon for 2 years 20 mil and Sheets for 2 years $7.5 mil guaranteed this year with incentives that take it up to 12 mil and $12 mil next year guaranteed.

    If they want to deal Gardner for another reliever or a veteran for the bench I’m cool with that but it’s not a must.

  100. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 10:47 am

    Ham-
    I agree with you but I think Joba is going to surprise. His back is against the wall. One good indication prior to spring training would be to see if he shows up early like some have suggested others do. I think he will.Some think he wont. Right now in a lot of people’s minds he is the underdog relative to Phil. I guess I like to root for the underdog sometimes but I think both kids have enormous potential. It would be a shame to waste 4 polished pitches in the bullpen.

  101. Lauren December 11th, 2009 at 10:47 am

    “I’m a big believer in Ian Kennedy”

    I don’t know.

    His 2008 game logs really stunk.

  102. Rishi December 11th, 2009 at 10:49 am

    squidward
    December 11th, 2009 at 10:44 am
    Rishi, Granderson is not a superstar. He’s a very, very good player who does a lot of things very well, but features no phase of his game that is great. He clearly makes the Yankees a better team, particularly in the area of run prevention, but let’s not go crazy.
    ===========================

    I just posted from the article, didn’t state as my opinion

  103. Betsy -high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 10:50 am

    Joe, I believe the Yanks need another starter, so I have no idea what would happen. I just know that Phil is going to be a terrific pitcher and he needs to get going on that. If he has to start in AAA, then I’d rather him do that than be in the pen.

  104. Mike RI December 11th, 2009 at 10:52 am

    Chip-

    Damon for 2 years 20 mil and Sheets for 2 years $7.5 mil guaranteed this year with incentives that take it up to 12 mil and $12 mil next year guaranteed.

    -
    I agre 100 percent Chip. hope this happens

  105. Rishi December 11th, 2009 at 10:52 am

    If you have Insider access, Buster’s piece about the influence Peter Gammons had on him is great…I tried to copy/paste but it didn’t come through

  106. squidward December 11th, 2009 at 10:53 am

    My bad Rishi. I caught on to that after the fact.

  107. Betsy -high on pie December 11th, 2009 at 10:55 am

    Phil, that might take an awfully long time……unless the Phils and Angels step up again. I’ve no problem waiting because I would love Doc, but the Yanks run the risk of having their alternate options disappear on them.

    I refuse to listen to that dumb discussion between Joe and Evan. It’s not happening first of all – they are just desperate to get Doc. Also, I don’t see any way Doc waives his NTC to go to the Mets.

  108. Joe from CT December 11th, 2009 at 10:56 am

    Betsy,

    There is no denying the fact that Phil is a terrific pitcher as we saw last year when he came in relief. Wouldn’t you rather see him contribute to the major league club rather than AAA team. He can play a major role on the Yankees, he is still very young as well so there is ample time to slowly develop him into a starter

  109. Ham Fighters December 11th, 2009 at 10:58 am

    personally, im a big phil guy, i think he learned alot about getting guys out in tough spots coming out of the bp this year which will help him immensly going back into the rotation. he also overcame the adversity of losing his rotation spot and showed great maturity by taking his spot in the bp without whining. i think he’s ready

    im really pulling for joba, i want him to become the great starter he can become. but i didnt like what i saw last season. moreso the way he let his innings limit and the yankees attempt to limit them get to his head. the team was looking for a wey to keep him in the rotation and keep him eligable to contribute in the postseason, and he let it go to his head. his comments that he didnt know what they were doing with him were insulting to girardi and eiland and showed real immaturity, like they owed him something.

    contrast that with phil going to girardi after he lost his spot and saying he’d take any role to stay on the yankees and then picking up the 8th inning spot and contributing and i think you see a big edge in maturity and attitude for phil

    hopefully joba will be able to see that in reflecting on what happened last season. he needs to lose that attitude of entitlement and ignore what the sportswriters and radio blabbers have to say about his place on the team

    lets hope he does.

  110. vinny-b December 11th, 2009 at 10:58 am

    “Granderson is not a superstar. He’s a very, very good player who does a lot of things very well, but features no phase of his game that is great. He clearly makes the Yankees a better team, particularly in the area of run prevention, but let’s not go crazy”
    ————————————

    i’ve regarded Granderson as a superstar the past 4 years. And 2 below average seasons (by his standards) don’t change this. The 2nd player in the history of baseball to hit 20 doubles, 20 triples, 20 HR’s, and 20 stolen bases in a season. Followed by another all-star season in which he netted 23 triples. Oh yeah, and he plays CF and is a plus defender. He’s a superstar.

  111. BigJoe44 December 11th, 2009 at 10:59 am

    Joe from CT,

    I’m hoping the starting rotation has Hughes in it rather than Lackey. It will take too much money to bring Lackey in, and then we would have two expensive starters with injury histories (Lackey & AJ).

    Also, I’m hoping that Cashman brings back Matsui rather than Damon. Matsui gives Girardi a proven slugger to hit behind ARod, and I see him staying healthier than Damon. Johnny’s defense is really starting to annoy me. We’ve seen him go from a solid CF to a suspect LF with no arm.
    It’s true that he gives it 100% every game, and I love him for it, but it also leads to injuries, and injuries will affect his batting.

  112. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 11:04 am

    Wouldn’t you rather see him contribute to the major league club rather than AAA team. He can play a major role on the Yankees, he is still very young as well so there is ample time to slowly develop him into a starter

    This is a hand crafted troll of Betsy, it has to be. There is not ample time to ‘slowly develop him’. They need to ACTUALLY DEVELOP HIM!

    Next year, if Pettitte retires, there will be a spot open for him. This year there is already a spot open for him.

    He showed he can be a dominant pitcher. He owned texas in 2007 and 2009. He owned detroit. He did very against other teams. He had 1 real clunker as a starter this year.

  113. Joe from CT December 11th, 2009 at 11:04 am

    Big Joe,

    So do you want Joba and Phil both in the rotation. That gives two question marks in our rotation which I do not think the Yankees like. They need to add another guy and Sheets is more injury prone than Lackey.

    I also think that Posada or Granderson can protect A-Rod in the lineup. Johnny has become poor defensively that is why he would primarily be a DH I believe. Matsui with his knees is a big risk as well and would never play the field at least Johnny could play the field now and then to give Melky, Grandy, and Swish a day off

  114. UpState December 11th, 2009 at 11:05 am

    Jerkface
    December 11th, 2009 at 10:07 am
    The White Sox apparently love Gardner. Blind love is one of the only things I could think that might allow KW to trade a guy like Thornton.

    That’d be a slick trade on Cash’s part. He also works really well with KW, as every article mentions. Other than teams giving Cash ‘the yankee tax’, he does have a really good relationship with most GMs in the league. Thats why Cash is the ninja.
    ================================
    If Matt Thornton is actually available….I sure hope Mr. Cashman is diligently working on this laptop & whiteboard to make this happen…
    I think Gardner is an important/valuable non-conventional weapon for the Yanks – but I’d package him, with others, no problem….not sure what CWS actually need….but without our “top 3″ prospects – I’m sure we can find something in our inventory.
    ….and yes – I’d even be more delighted if they asked for Melky (dream on….no one really wants him)

    Thorton is the real deal.

  115. upstate kate December 11th, 2009 at 11:06 am

    Damon could be primarily used as DH, w/ the ability to play LF when needed. He has worked out well as a #2 hitter. Granderson could bat 5th.

  116. 86w183 December 11th, 2009 at 11:06 am

    If Damon returns he’ll be the primary DH, which is what he should be at this stage. He can still play enough games in LF to give the Yanks some versatility… maybe once or twice a week.

    If Hoffman is legit, then Gardner could be part of a package for a starter who isn’t in the Lackey/Halladay stratosphere. A Gil Meche type for example.

  117. Phil December 11th, 2009 at 11:07 am

    Betsy,

    The Yanks are in no rush. They don’t have any games that count till April.

  118. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 11:09 am

    So do you want Joba and Phil both in the rotation. That gives two question marks in our rotation which I do not think the Yankees like. They need to add another guy and Sheets is more injury prone than Lackey.

    Joba isn’t a question mark. You know he is going to pitch, even without his best velocity as evidenced by the beginning of the year, around a 4 ERA for around 6 innings per start. I think you can absolutely pencil that in.

    I know that teams want pitching depth, but I’d rather go into next season with Hughes and Chamberlain starting at 4 & 5 and have some guys waiting, than sign lackey and kill a rotation spot for the next couple of years with his disgusting pumpkin shaped head.

  119. 86w183 December 11th, 2009 at 11:13 am

    I love Matt Thornton. Would Gardner and Dunn be enough?

    I’ll add Gaudin, McAllister and Romine if they’ll give us John Danks.

  120. Patrick the Prospect Hugger December 11th, 2009 at 11:13 am

    As usual I agree completely with my boy Jerkface

  121. Zeber December 11th, 2009 at 11:13 am

    Joba and Phil need to stay, and mature, and continue developing we hope into excellent pitchers. Al Leiter said it takes time with young pitchers and he should know. I hope they are not traded. Yanks should definitely Sign Sheets

  122. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 11:15 am

    I do not think it matters who we think should be in the rotation this coming season only what Cashman thinks. IMO, he thinks the Yanks require another starting pitcher for next year at least. If that is true there is very little chance of seeing both Joba and Phil in the RT at the start of the season. Personally, I think putting both of them in would be premature and I hope Cash does in fact see it that way. Next year when Andy retires (if he does) then both youngsters should be ready (if they both still here).

  123. upstate kate December 11th, 2009 at 11:19 am

    I don’t want Lackey, I would rather have Joba and Phil. Next year (in my perfect world) the Yankees get Hallady and Andy retires (after another successful season)

  124. Mike RI December 11th, 2009 at 11:20 am

    Per Mlbtraderumors :

    Olney says the Yankees and Johnny Damon appear to be far apart in early contract negotiations. Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News believes the Yanks will turn to Hideki Matsui, Mike Cameron, or Mark DeRosa if Damon won’t take a two-year offer within two weeks or so.

  125. BigJoe44 December 11th, 2009 at 11:21 am

    Joe from CT,

    Having Gaudin on the team will allow the Yankees to have Hughes in the rotation to start the year. He will obviously be limited in innings, so he would probably be in the bullpen at the end of the year. I’m also hoping that the good Joba shows up this year. Cashman can also sign one or two 5th starter types to minor league contracts to provide some insurance. We will never know how good Hughes is by keeping him in the bullpen or starting him in the minors.
    As far as Damon goes, he would make a very good DH only guy, but would not provide protection for ARod. Granderson can do that against RHP, but hasn’t shown he can do that against LHP. Posada can probably do the job protecting ARod.
    If you’re talking about Damon playing the field 2-3 times a week to give guys a rest, why weaken our defense when we already have such a potent offense. At this point we have a choice of Melky/Gardner/Hoffman to run out there to spell guys off for a game. All three give us excellent defense, and servicable offense.
    Just my thoughts…don’t know what Cashman is thinking.

  126. Erin December 11th, 2009 at 11:22 am

    Mike RI
    December 11th, 2009 at 11:20 am
    Per Mlbtraderumors :

    Olney says the Yankees and Johnny Damon appear to be far apart in early contract negotiations. Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News believes the Yanks will turn to Hideki Matsui, Mike Cameron, or Mark DeRosa if Damon won’t take a two-year offer within two weeks or so.

    *******************
    Matsui, Matsui, Matsui!! :)

  127. Tom in NJ December 11th, 2009 at 11:23 am

    Don’t count out Aceves as a rotation option.

  128. Lauren December 11th, 2009 at 11:25 am

    Rishi December 11th, 2009 at 10:52 am

    If you have Insider access, Buster’s piece about the influence Peter Gammons had on him is great…I tried to copy/paste but it didn’t come through
    =================================

    Gammons is corrupt – period.

    As a national writer/analyst he was supposed to be impartial, yet he didn’t just put his thumb on the scale to help Boston, he put both fists.

    The low point, which may have clinched ESPN’s decision not to rehire him, was last year, when he personally attacked Mark Teixeria’s wife, using sexism, no less, after he signed with the yanks.

  129. pat December 11th, 2009 at 11:26 am

    Yankees hitting coach Kevin Long is hoping to work with Curtis Granderson before spring training begins. Granderson hit .183 against lefties last season for Detroit, and Long saw some subtle changes that could benefit the lefty hitter after viewing his swing on video tape.

    This week, Long began working in Arizona with Nick Swisher, who batted .249 last year and hit .128 (6-for-47) in the postseason, with two RBI. “He should be able to hit .280. We’re going to shoot for .300,” Long said by phone from his Arizona home.

    Long planned to be in Miami during the first week of January for his annual session with Alex Rodriguez. They’ll be joined by Mark Teixeira, who will be in town to watch Georgia Tech play in the Orange Bowl.

    Long might not have time to visit Robinson Cano and Melky Cabrera this winter, but their advances in ’09 were such that, “There’s not a whole lot to do with them, other than pick up where we left off.”

    http://www.northjersey.com/spo....._pick.html

  130. Patrick the Prospect Hugger December 11th, 2009 at 11:27 am

    “Don’t count out Aceves as a rotation option.”

    He’s not as good as Joba or Phil, I don’t see his spot in the rotation. He’s a good swing-man in the pen, keep him there.

  131. BigJoe44 December 11th, 2009 at 11:27 am

    And as always, I have forgotten about possibly bringing Wang back. Worth a shot in my opinion, and if he can still pitch like he used to, would really help with this years rotation, and would give us a rotation for 2011 of CC, Wang, AJ, Hughes, and Joba.

  132. Patrick the Prospect Hugger December 11th, 2009 at 11:28 am

    Wow, KLong works his butt off for this team.

  133. Frank December 11th, 2009 at 11:28 am

    “i’ve regarded Granderson as a superstar the past 4 years. And 2 below average seasons (by his standards) don’t change this. The 2nd player in the history of baseball to hit 20 doubles, 20 triples, 20 HR’s, and 20 stolen bases in a season. Followed by another all-star season in which he netted 23 triples. Oh yeah, and he plays CF and is a plus defender. He’s a superstar.”

    He’s more a very good player who had a superstar year. He’s hasn’t come close to approaching what he did offensively or defensively in 2007. Fine young player and I’m glad we have him, but he has a ways to go to attain superstar status. Arod, Pujols, Jeter? Those are superstars. Granderson hasn’t come to that level….yet.

  134. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 11:28 am

    If Kevin Long gets Nick Swisher to hit .280 or .300, I will give him the Nobel Prize for Baseball. His OBP would be like .450 and he’d slug .600. He’d be the best RFer in baseball.

  135. Joe from CT December 11th, 2009 at 11:29 am

    I highly doubt they bring Wang back. The past two years now he has had major injuries.

  136. EdFl December 11th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    Chad,
    is’t Wang supposed to get an offer from The Yankees by tomorrow? Is he going to be non-tendered?

  137. NoBowMao December 11th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    nobel prizes don’t mean much anymore. do they?

  138. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    He’s not as good as Joba or Phil, I don’t see his spot in the rotation. He’s a good swing-man in the pen, keep him there.

    I agree, his upside is pretty much ‘consistent backend pitcher’, which isn’t really good enough for the yankees. Its why I think they were always looking to trade Kennedy. He is at his most valuable as the 6th or 7th man, because if he has to fill in, he’d do it well.

    I love him out of the pen, even though it seemed like he started to physically suffer for it.

  139. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 11:31 am

    nobel prizes don’t mean much anymore. do they?

    Thats racist

  140. BigJoe44 December 11th, 2009 at 11:31 am

    Both Aceves and Gaudin are great insurance in case either Hughes or Joba have problems. Neither one is the kind of guy you build a rotation around, but they are both able to go out every 5th day and give the Yankees a shot at winning. We did manage to win #27 with Gaudin and Mitre filling in the back end!!!

  141. CR9 December 11th, 2009 at 11:32 am

    “Gammons is corrupt – period.

    As a national writer/analyst he was supposed to be impartial, yet he didn’t just put his thumb on the scale to help Boston, he put both fists.

    The low point, which may have clinched ESPN’s decision not to rehire him, was last year, when he personally attacked Mark Teixeria’s wife, using sexism, no less, after he signed with the yanks.”

    I have reiterated your first 2 paragraphs for a long time now.

    But your last paragraph, I disagree with. There is no way ESPN decided not to rehire Gammons. Gammons is the face of ESPN and portrays everything ESPN portrays.

    If anything, Gammons probably felt that MLBNetwork was garnering more viewers than ESPN, and felt he could reach even more fans than before with his Boston stinksniffing.

    It is also possible that ESPN could not give Gammons the salary he was accustomed to any longer.

  142. Erin December 11th, 2009 at 11:32 am

    Wow, Long will be busy this winter. That’s cool Tex will be joining him and Alex in Miami.

  143. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 11:32 am

    Since there’s maybe one person on here that’s ever seen Hoffman play, forget about him at least until he proves something in spring training. He’s a 5 year minor leaguer that was left unprotected. Until then, he’s hardly an option. He’s just a body.

  144. DT - OPPC member December 11th, 2009 at 11:32 am

    I’m searching high and low for any news on Wang.
    Word on the street is, Nick in SF is offering his gold star 5 point lock of the week to anyone who can provide the scoop first.

    Sadly all I have to report so far is Vera Wang dresses are still hot. Chien-ming is not. :-(

  145. Rishi December 11th, 2009 at 11:33 am

    Lauren
    December 11th, 2009 at 11:25 am
    Rishi December 11th, 2009 at 10:52 am

    If you have Insider access, Buster’s piece about the influence Peter Gammons had on him is great…I tried to copy/paste but it didn’t come through
    =================================

    Gammons is corrupt – period.

    As a national writer/analyst he was supposed to be impartial, yet he didn’t just put his thumb on the scale to help Boston, he put both fists.

    The low point, which may have clinched ESPN’s decision not to rehire him, was last year, when he personally attacked Mark Teixeria’s wife, using sexism, no less, after he signed with the yanks.
    =================

    Regardless – it is a well-written piece about how Gammons was his childhood hero and grew to be a respected co-worker…I’m talking more about the way in which it was written and the influence Gammons had on Buster more than whether or not I like Gammons

  146. CR9 December 11th, 2009 at 11:34 am

    Two other things:

    Lauren, What did he say about Leigh Teixeira?

    Second, Not only is Gammons corrupt, he is a criminal. He is the perfect example of a fraud becoming a household name.

    The one, the only, the Fraudulent, corrupt, criminal, Peter Gammons.

  147. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 11:34 am

    Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News believes the Yanks will turn to Hideki Matsui, Mike Cameron, or Mark DeRosa if Damon won’t take a two-year offer within two weeks or so.

    Of those options I would be more inclined to go with either Cameron or DeRosa than with Matsui.

    I know that Hideki is a proven commodity here and we all appreciate what he’s done, but if Damon were not to return then the Yankees would not only need a LF option but also someone to bat in the 2 spot. I really like Granderson’s power more in the middle of the lineup. Both DeRosa and Cameron are good, heady players, who have had different levels of success hitting second in various batting orders.

    If we are to believe that hitting guru Kevin Long is going to get Granderson to cut down on his strikeouts and raise his average back into the .280-.300 range then why couldn’t he similarly help one of those two (also big strikeout guys who don’t hit for particularly high averages).

    As it stands, Cameron is a better defensive version of DeRosa and will likely take a shorter term contract than DeRosa would so I would give him the slight edge there.

    I stand behind my original statement from weeks ago that if Damon doesn’t return then my first choice would be a deal for DeJesus, but of the three players mentioned above, I would go with Cameron I suppose and have a very solid defensive outfield of Cameron, Granderson and Melky with Swisher as my DH.

  148. MTU December 11th, 2009 at 11:35 am

    Xmas wish list (not in order) :

    Experienced starter, reasonable price, short contract
    Damon or Matsui
    Kevin towers to Yanks, Gets to advise on Chapman purchase
    AJ convinces Doc that yanks are his best option
    AA in toronto fades into obscurity because his inexperience shows
    Gardner or Melk are traded for a needed piece on the team
    Boston continues to fade back into relative obscurity
    Wang stays with Yanks on some sort of a deal

  149. pat December 11th, 2009 at 11:35 am

    GB

    I watched Hoffmann video on youtube yesterday. First ML hit was a HR over the left field wall. Looked good to me. :wink:

  150. Frank December 11th, 2009 at 11:37 am

    “Second, Not only is Gammons corrupt, he is a criminal. He is the perfect example of a fraud becoming a household name.”

    Not a Gammons fan or anything, but CR9 you’re a perfect example of an idiot being a bigger idiot.

  151. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 11:37 am

    Lauren, What did he say about Leigh Teixeira?

    Said she picked NY over Boston because of the shopping

  152. Wave Your Hat December 11th, 2009 at 11:37 am

    Matsui AND Cameron.

  153. DT - OPPC member December 11th, 2009 at 11:37 am

    “Since there’s maybe one person on here that’s ever seen Hoffman play, forget about him at least until he proves something in spring training.”

    GB, It’s Hoffmann. (hey maybe it was a typo, with you ya never know) ;-)

    Jamie added the extra “n” so he wouldn’t get confused with Dustin and Abbie.

  154. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 11:39 am

    I think the Yankees get Matsui AND another guy.

  155. CR9 December 11th, 2009 at 11:40 am

    Well, thanks Frank.

    I was not aware there was ever any question that Gammons was anything but a fraud.

  156. Lauren December 11th, 2009 at 11:40 am

    CR9-

    Gammons will only appear on MLB on a part time basis. His main gig will be NESN.

    And gammons WAS no longer the face of espn. Think about it – he barely received any face time during the playoffs. In the entire 5 week postseasn, he didn’t appear on Baseball Tonight once.

    Of course, using Torre as a model, instead of firing someone directly, you do it indirectly by offering an “unsatisfactory” contract.

  157. Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 11:42 am

    Its kind of hard to be the ‘face’ of anything when you’ve had a stroke. Lets hope he keeps his opinions to print.

  158. Lauren December 11th, 2009 at 11:43 am

    Jerkface December 11th, 2009 at 11:37 am

    Lauren, What did he say about Leigh Teixeira?
    =========================================

    That she FORCED Mark to pick New York because she thought the shopping in Boston was inferior. Like everyone in Red Sox Nation, he was out of his mind when the yanks stole Tex and he had an on air meltdown.

  159. CR9 December 11th, 2009 at 11:43 am

    Lauren
    That all makes sense, but I figured he did not get much face time, because the Yankees were winning, and the Sox were out in 3 games. He was too busy cowhering in the corner like a schoolboy/girl.

  160. DT - OPPC member December 11th, 2009 at 11:44 am

    “CR9
    December 11th, 2009 at 11:34 am
    Not only is Gammons corrupt, he is a criminal. He is the perfect example of a fraud becoming a household name.
    The one, the only, the Fraudulent, corrupt, criminal, Peter Gammons.”

    The things you learn on the LoHud blog!

    Gammons is a criminal? When did he get arrested? Did he sit on the group W bench with Arlo?

    Enlighten us oh wise one.

  161. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 11:45 am

    pat
    December 11th, 2009 at 11:35 am
    GB

    I watched Hoffmann video on youtube yesterday. First ML hit was a HR over the left field wall. Looked good to me.

    ————————————————————

    Doreen, I’m hoping that he turns into a useful part somewhere on the order of Chad Curtis, but, I’d like to see something before getting him ready for a plaque in Monument Park. There’s as good a chance that he’s back in LA as there is riding the pinstriped pines. Just going on his minor league numbers (that’s all I have to go on), I’m just not that impressed.

  162. pat December 11th, 2009 at 11:45 am

    “Gammons will only appear on MLB on a part time basis. His main gig will be NESN.”

    Nothing wrong with that. Leiter splits time with MLB and YES.

  163. Erin December 11th, 2009 at 11:46 am

    Lauren
    December 11th, 2009 at 11:43 am

    That she FORCED Mark to pick New York because she thought the shopping in Boston was inferior. Like everyone in Red Sox Nation, he was out of his mind when the yanks stole Tex and he had an on air meltdown.

    *********************
    Lauren, I completely forgot about that. I had never minded Gammons too much before that,but he lost me with those comments. What a stupid thing to say.

  164. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 11:47 am

    I think the Yankees get Matsui AND another guy.

    I just don’t see it. I think they’ll make one more signing for the offense and then focus solely on adding a pitcher.

    The Yankees have plenty of options to fill the DH spot without Matsui and there’s the chance, however slight, that Jesus Montero could hit his way into the bigs sometime this season.

    Right now, if the Yankees wanted to, they might even be comfortable with the idea of using Miranda and Hoffmann as a platoon at DH with an outfield of Melky, Granderson and Swisher.

    Adding Cameron to go along with Granderson would give them slight upgrades (at least in terms of power) from what they were getting from the combination of Damon and Matsui, and a defensive outfield that features Melky and Cameron in the corners with Granderson in CF would be a huge upgrade from last year’s trio.

  165. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 11:48 am

    DT – OPPC member
    December 11th, 2009 at 11:37 am
    “Since there’s maybe one person on here that’s ever seen Hoffman play, forget about him at least until he proves something in spring training.”

    GB, It’s Hoffmann. (hey maybe it was a typo, with you ya never know)

    Jamie added the extra “n” so he wouldn’t get confused with Dustin and Abbie.

    ————————————————————

    He’s not good enough to be wasting extra letters on his name. Even Glenn and Trevor aren’t into waste.

  166. austinmac December 11th, 2009 at 11:49 am

    The White Sox would not, in my opinion, ever consider trading Thornton for Gardner. They can keep Posednik if they want a speedy, powerless outfielder. Posednik hit over .300 last year. Gardner simply hasn’t demonstrated enough.

    I am now of the belief that Matsui and not Damon will return. I would try to spin Gardner along with other parts for DeJesus. He could bat 2d in the lineup and play excellent LF defense. That said, don’t think it will happen.

  167. DT - OPPC member December 11th, 2009 at 11:51 am

    “He’s not good enough to be wasting extra letters on his name. Even Glenn and Trevor aren’t into waste.”

    Glenn Hoffman got confused and tossed the extra N on his first name. An innocent mistake.

  168. 86w183 December 11th, 2009 at 11:51 am

    Gammons is not a fraud. He does see the world through the prism of the Red Sawx, but to call him a fraud is inaccurate. I’ve always enjoyed his stuff, and no one has been more positive about Derek Jeter for the past decade plus.

    Larry Bowa raves about Hoffmann. My guess is he’s the fifth member of the OF and the Yanks will sign Damon or Matsui and then go about the rest of the bench.

    Aceves is a long reliever. It’s the perfect role for him. If no deals are made Hughes, Gaudin and Joba will battle for the two spots at the end of the rotation. Whoever loses the fight is bound to end up in the bullpen.

    I see no reason to send Phil or Joba to Tripla-A at this stage. They have too much Major League experience to go through that.

  169. PittsburghYankeeFan December 11th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    Gammon going to nesn? Exactly how is that different to being on espn nowadays?

  170. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    “Gammons will only appear on MLB on a part time basis. His main gig will be NESN.”

    Rosenthal splits time with Fox and MLB

    Heyman does about a billion different things

    Nothing wrong with what Gammons is doing, he may even be on WFAN from time to time. The reason he left ESPN was because ESPN has an exclusivity rights with all their talent, they can only appear on ESPN tv or radio and Gammons wanted to be able to do a couple of different things.

    Plus, as I understand it, MLB Network is going to do some things with the Cape Cod League (show some games, do some specials) and Gammons loves that league.

  171. CR9 December 11th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    Well, DT, since when does a person have to be arrested to be a criminal. All that is required for a person to be a criminal, is for the person to commit a crime.

    I do not want to go any further with this after these following comments.

    Simply, IMO, he is a fraud with corrupt ethics. He conspired with ESPN and every other baseball outlet to prop up Red Sox players, management, and prospects. It is similar to artificially inflating stock value. There is no place for that in baseball.

    I thought I could not think any less of Gammons, but to make a sexist remark like that is putred.

  172. pat December 11th, 2009 at 11:54 am

    GB

    I guess all us non-20 year old married Mom’s just start to blend after awhile.

    I’ll take you calling me Doreen as the highest of compliments. :wink:

  173. CR9 December 11th, 2009 at 11:56 am

    “There was a lot of testiness between Alex and Mark when they played together in Texas. I dont think Alex really cares about communicating with other players. It will be very interesting to see how it goes with the Yankees.”

    Right there. Gammons, after the Teix signing. Trying to create tension where there was none. Fraud! It seemed to me from watching all the games, that Teix and Alex are very close friends.

  174. Ham Fighters December 11th, 2009 at 11:56 am

    people who belive this espn conspiracy thing are such sad beings. unfortunatly it reflects badly on the sane yankees fans.

  175. Robbykid December 11th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    I love how this site is so much more positive now then when Pete ran it…..

  176. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 11:58 am

    DT – OPPC member
    December 11th, 2009 at 11:51 am
    “He’s not good enough to be wasting extra letters on his name. Even Glenn and Trevor aren’t into waste.”

    Glenn Hoffman got confused and tossed the extra N on his first name. An innocent mistake.

    ————————————————————

    My mistake about Glenn, then. He’s not into saving like his brother Trevor is.

  177. CR9 December 11th, 2009 at 11:59 am

    “On why Teixeira chose the Yankees over the Red Sox when the conventional wisdom was that he would sign with Boston:

    Gammons: As we saw over the time line, once [Yankees general manager Brian] Cashman went to his house — first Terry Francona and Theo {Epstein] went there — five or six days later Cashman went, and that was decided that the Red Sox were the stalking horse and the Red Sox would go to a number and then the Yankees will sign him. And the Yankees did a very good job of saying, ‘We’re not in it, we’re not in it’ . . . all along, that’s where he was going. Not because his father was a [high school] teammate of Bucky Dent, but he made it very clear watching it yesterday [and wading] through the baloney . . . Teixeira is Scott Boras’s ultimate client, and he’s very well-programmed . . . The Red Sox didn’t know it, and in the end there was nothing they could do about it. He wanted to go to the Yankees, his wife doesn’t like Boston — apparently she doesn’t like the stores on Newbury Street or something — and in the end that’s the way it goes.”

    Talk about sour grapes, and corrupt ethics at its finest.

  178. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    pat
    December 11th, 2009 at 11:54 am
    GB

    I guess all us non-20 year old married Mom’s just start to blend after awhile.

    I’ll take you calling me Doreen as the highest of compliments.

    ————————————————————

    What more do you want from me, pat? I did spell the name correctly.

  179. Erin December 11th, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    PittsburghYankeeFan
    December 11th, 2009 at 11:52 am
    Gammon going to nesn? Exactly how is that different to being on espn nowadays?

    *********************
    LOL

    I said pretty much the same thing. :)

  180. Tom in NJ December 11th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    You can get anything you want, at Alice’s Restaurant

  181. sab December 11th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    still feeling the burn after stupidly trading the greatest “ramirez” in the history of baseball (and flushing their offense into the toilet by doing so)..
    the redsox are trying to clean up their greatest trading mistake after babe ruth by picking up all of the ramirez’s left in baseball – so far by my count

    not 1 but 2 Ramon Ramirez’s and soon Max Ramirez – they also tried getting hanley, the yankees should be getting a call soon to see what they want for edwar, needing a 3rd baseman they will call the cubs for aramis (actually one of the better ramirez’s), and will make scutaro a bench player by acquiring alexei….this only leaving horacio and wilkin – which they should be getting sometime during the trade deadline

  182. CR9 December 11th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    HamFighters

    There is no ESPN conspiracy. They are located in the heart of Sox nation. There are more Sox fans employed by ESPN than not. They are just fans supporting their team, rather than acting professionally.

    And their unprofessionalism even stretches to Wisconsin/Milwaukee fans. Boli Boli Boli!!

  183. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Right there. Gammons, after the Teix signing. Trying to create tension where there was none.

    It was pretty well known that towards the end there was tension between Alex and most of his teammates in Texas. He was looking to get moved to a winner and they didn’t like the fact that they didn’t qualify in his mind. Also his contract was often used as a scapegoat as to why the team couldn’t afford to bring in any pitchers.

  184. vin December 11th, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    “I guess all us non-20 year old married Mom’s just start to blend after awhile. ”

    pat,

    Give him some slack… he can barely keep his ex-wives straight.

  185. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    Tom in NJ
    December 11th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
    You can get anything you want, at Alice’s Restaurant

    ————————————————————

    Exceptin’ Alice.

  186. Lauren December 11th, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    CR9-

    Watching gammons that day was like watching Captain Queeq’s meltdown in “The Caine Mutiny”

  187. Tom December 11th, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    God Bless Mrs. Teixeira !

  188. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    Larry Bowa raves about Hoffmann. My guess is he’s the fifth member of the OF and the Yanks will sign Damon or Matsui and then go about the rest of the bench.

    Bowa’s a pretty good judge. I guess the Yankees have been scouting this kid for a while. Hopefully it pays off. Not like they gave up anything important for him.

  189. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    vin
    December 11th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
    “I guess all us non-20 year old married Mom’s just start to blend after awhile. ”

    pat,

    Give him some slack… he can barely keep his ex-wives straight.

    ————————————————————

    Not true. I have no trouble keeping them straight. I have trouble keeping them out of the same restaurants and beauty salons.

  190. m December 11th, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    Good morning, everyone!

    Ain’t life grand? We can just enjoy the hot stove season and stay warm and not worry about getting burned?

    Is Joel Sherman a bandwagon writer? He seems to be a big booster of the club nowadays. :?

    Anyway, I was all but resigned to the fact that we might not get Halladay. But his article gave me a twinkle of hope. Of course he said what one or two have said here all along.

    That ultimately the price will drop, we’ll offer them (I think) Joba and some prospects and seal the deal. AA as he’s fondly called here is fast going the way of Bill Smith in that he’s asking too much. And if he doesn’t take the first good deal, he’ll end up giving Halladay away just like Santana was given away.

    Also, love the fact that K-Long is going to make his rounds. I know that Alex throws around praise like Pacman throws around dollar bills, but I believe him when he speaks highly of Long.

    Granderson must look like one big lump of clay that Long can mold. Or maybe more of those skinny bendy figures.

  191. BigJoe44 December 11th, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    CR9,

    Just an update for you.

    Gammons is paid for his opinion. Anyone can report on what has happened. Very few get the chance to add to the facts, and his employer feels justified with allowing him to do that.
    When he is on air, he gives his opinion, and that opinion may be biased by many different things. That opinion may also be shared by some, most, or all of his viewers/listeners.
    When he gives his opinion, he knows that some will agree, some will be enlightened and therefore have a better foundation to form their own opinion, and some will disagree. That goes with the territory.
    As an adult, you should have the ability to see things as they are, and live with the world we live in, where people are able to speak their opinions without being called a fraud and a criminal (we certainly aren’t talking hate crimes or holocaust denial here).

    Just so you know, I don’t support or reject Gammons as a journalist. I just live for today, hope for tomorrow, and thank ‘The Boss’ for our ‘Yankee Universe’!!!

  192. Rishi December 11th, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    :arrow:

  193. Chip December 11th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    One of the funniest Gammons things was when he insisted that Alex to the Red Sox was going to happen. Alex would wind up with the Sox for Manny and then Magglio Ordonez would come on board for Nomar. It was a done deal, the issues with the deferred money would be hammered out and everything would work out.

    He was asked about reports that the Yankees were trying to make a play and said that they were nothing to believe, that George was just trying to force Boston to ante up a little more.

  194. Jeremy December 11th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    hamfighters
    espn does show bias to the Red Sox. If you watch their programs you notice it. The majority are Red Sox fans.

  195. CD December 11th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Tom December 11th, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    God Bless Mrs. Teixeira !
    ==================================

    Hell, YES! She’s one of the hottest wifes in baseball.

    http://www.sloshspot.com/blog/.....seball-140

  196. jennifer December 11th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Just got back from Meeting Joe G. He was very nice took pictures with people. They allowed him to sign anything. I was bummed I didn’t bring anything with me to have him sign. They did have pictures of him holding the ws trophy and he signed his name with #27 below it.

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