Non-tender news will have to wait
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 11, 2009 
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During his final media session of the Winter Meetings, Yankees general manager Brian Cashman indicated the Yankees might announce their non-tender decisions today. Instead, the Yankees have announced they will wait until tomorrow, which is the deadline.
There are technically four non-tender candidates, although one of them isn’t really a candidate at all.
Melky Cabrera is arbitration eligible and could be non-tendered, but that’s not going to happen.
Chad Gaudin and Sergio Mitre are eligible and would make a little more sense, but Cashman has routinely mentioned them when discussing his rotation depth for next season. Gaudin proved valuable down the stretch last season, and it’s reasonable to think Mitre could be significantly better as continues to come back from Tommy John surgery. He was only a year removed last season.
Chien-Ming Wang is the prime non-tender candidate, and heavy speculation is that the Yankees will not offer him a contract for next season. Cashman talked about rotation depth a lot at the Winter Meetings – even Zach McAllister, who has one Triple-A start, had his name mentioned a few times – but Wang never made the list of potential starters. Cashman was either making a mistake and forgetting to mention Wang, or Cashman wasn’t forgetting him at all and was choosing not to put him on the list. Amazing that Wang could have fallen to far so fast, but he was clearly not his old self last season, and there’s no guarantee he’ll return to his old form. Agreeing to arbitration that could pay him significantly more than the $5 million he made this season seems too risky.
Certainly keep Chad Gaudin.
Poor CMW. Fine, non-tender him, but then at least offer the guy an incentive-laced contract. I think it’s worth it if he accepts a contract on the yank’s terms.
so what happens if they non-tender Wang? Does he become a free agent?
Shoulder injuries are big deals. Hopefully they can work something out with him that will allow him to rehab in Tampa and if he’s ready, compete in `11. Though, a clean break is probably more likely.
Chien-Ming gave us all he had. I hope he lands somewhere and keeps his pitches down in the zone. He was a good Yankee.
Chad,
Can you do a post on the non-tender market (ie who are the highlights).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZBUb0ElnNY
Oh, Nick.
Nick in SF December 11th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
——————–
lol…how appropriately melancholy for all those looking not to be non-tendered.
Cody Ransom signed a minor league deal with the Phillies. He must be close to 40, only kidding! You wonder when do you give up the Dream? I GUESS WHEN NOBODY WANTS YOU!
“Agreeing to arbitration that could pay him significantly more than the $5 million he made this season seems too risky.”
I don’t see how an arbritrator would give Wang a raise after two lost seasons to the team. I guess there is the risk he would due to Wang’s service time…
This type of thing with Wang is the hard side of the business of baseball. I can understand that the Yankees had paid him a decent sum of money and during the last season and a half he didn’t produce.
It could be that they just let him go, which is every tough to see. I know there is risk involved in bringing him back after shoulder surgery (his second), I also think if the right deal could be put together, Wang would work very hard to make a come back.
I can’t believe that the Yankees will just hand him a contract for the same amount. Even at a slight discount it isn’t worth what he has done over the past two seasons. It means he gets non-tendered. He becomes a FA.
It is possible that he gets a new deal offered to him by the Yankees, I think a number of teams will make offers for him, none at a high rate. He will decide on which team to go with, and the best offer might just come from another team.
I hope he does return and makes that come back. I just don’t think that is going to happen.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/coversetc/3751926805/
I dislike this part of baseball.
So we’re going to risk losing his services over a couple million dollars? It’s not like the tough decision with Damon revolving around years, where the result would be carrying around expensive, dead weight for years.
If there is a reasonable chance that Wang gets back to form, it is entirely reasonable that we risk 6-8Million so that he do it here.
Although, I wonder if the implications of non-tendering him are that he will NOT return. I suppose if he becomes a FA, we are still as much of a player as anybody, right? It’s also a fair way for the market to decide what he is worth. If his best offer is for “X” or “Y” million, does he come back if we match it?
Doreen
December 11th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
I dislike this part of baseball.
————————–
Doreen-
I dislike this part of life.
If he is offered arbitration there is only so much that they can reduce the salary by. Given his recent past he wouldn’t be given an increase, but even so its a lot to pay for someone who may not even be able to come back to average performance.
Wang becomes a free agent which means any team, including the Yankees can try and work out a deal with him. It may even be possible that the Yankees have already discussed thing with Wang’s agent.
To reduce the amount of guaranteed money by a significant amount, which I think would be the intention of the Yankees, he has to be non-tendered. If he is kept the CBA dictates the maximum amount the salary can be reduced by. I just don’t recall if it is 10 or 20 percent.
Arbitration comes into play if they do not non-tender him but can’t agree on the contract amount.
I know there had been some bad feelings that Wang had toward the Yankees over the earlier arbitration they went through, that was for about 400,000. It could be that given what has happened over the last two seasons, Wang feels differently toward the Yankees.
Has GreenBeret7 posted recently? I hope he got good news from his doctors today.
I concur with all of what Chad writes. Melky, Gaudin, and Mitre will find themselves in arbitration ….. Wang will not be offered a contract with the risk he brings.
Gaudin and Mitre are protection in the event of injury during the season.
I’ll miss Wang. I hope he rebounds and pitches great for someone if we don’t offer him. One of the few baseball cards I have is of Wang.
Not a great sign, MLB.com:
“Given his uncertain outlook, the Yankees may believe they are better served to non-tender Wang and then attempt to re-sign him to a lesser contract.
Nero would not rule out the idea that Wang could return to the Yankees under that scenario, but he said that his agency would then view the situation by taking all other options into consideration.
“I think it’s difficult to rationalize a non-tender as further building a bridge with a team, but we’ll see,” Nero said.
Should Wang become a free agent, it is thought that the Dodgers — managed by Joe Torre, a consistent supporter of the pitcher — would have some interest.”
Doreen:
“I dislike this part of baseball.”
I know, I know. But consider it thinning the herd. It’s really comes down to the invisible hand of enlightened self interest. If a player has enough left in the tank someone will offer them a contract, unless they are pricing themselves out of business. In which case, they deserve to go home.
It’s nothing like Curt Flood’s situation, and all those years leading up to Messersmith and McNally.
http://seamheads.com/blog/2008.....e-mcnally/
The “moguls” held all the cards then. Now it’s more of a level field, no pun intended.
Every player ought to kick in 1% of their annual salary to Marvin Miller’s favorite charity – even if that charity turns out to be Marvin Miller himself.
I understand he now has the range of Jebediah Springfield’s statue, but I think the loss of Mike Lowell’s bat will have a greater impact on the Sox than is being considered.
Over the last 3 yrs, he’s had 152 ABs against the Yanks. He hit .336 w/10 HRs and 42 RBIs.
If Max Ramirez puts up #s like that against Yankee pitching during his career, I’ll eat my computer.
Abda– Good point. I was wondering the full implications of non-tendering and you hit right on two big ones.
1) On the one hand, him hitting the free market is a more realistically “fair” way to set his value, as opposed to an arbitrator. It allows us to say look, we’ll pay you what the free market says you’re worth (if we want to, that is).
2) But does Wang take this second slap in the face lying down? Or if Boston or LA come calling would he be inclined to move on?
I would be happy if they took the best offer Wang could find and added $800K to it — the amount they took him for at the arb hearing before the 2008 season.
Sigh.
I’m too biased in this case… I want what’s best for Wang and I want what’s best for the Yankees, but mostly I want those two things to intersect.
It will be a sad day indeed if he signs with another team.
For Nick and his pal CMW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSz16ngdsG0
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4734773
This is Peter Gammons’ last article.
This criminal, talked of his 20 years at ESPN, covering multiple World Series, Championship Series, and so on.
And he had no mention of 1996, 1998-2000, or 2009. Those years did not exist for Peter Gammons.
The only thing he had to say positive or at all about the Yankees was that Mo is the best sportsman and MVP of the last 15 years.
But he should not receive credit for that, because even the most sick Red Sox fans have to realize that the good a guy like Mo or Jeter bring the game of baseball, both on and off the field.
Not one mention of 5 World Series Championships of our NY Yankees.
Criminal!
If Wang and Matsui are gone next year, the Yankees will have no Asians on their team
I bet that affects their revenue and marketing quite a bit.
“I just don’t recall if it is 10 or 20 percent.”
Someone the other day (I think GB) said 20% so the minimum they can offer Wang unless he is non-tendered is $4 million.
What could Wang likely get an offer for on the open market?
Simon, sometimes it can help the player to have a change of scenery as well. Its tough. I know his being a Yankee was a big deal in Taiwan, though I don’t think him going to another team would diminish his value over there, there is that possibility. The Yankees are considered the highest level, and his pitching for the Yankees meant a lot.
If the Yankees offer him a fair deal, with incentives that could boost his salary if he performs, and it is in the same range as other offers, then it will come down to his feelings toward the club.
Best line on the ESPN comments section
jfk5611 (12/11/2009 at 8:12 PM) Report Violation Gammo, you are a complete joke of a journalist and a human being. Nice to know that all of your World Series recollections conveniently avoided any year in which the Yankees won the World Series. Nice to see you let your Boston bias still invade every aspect of your life even in your final article for (N)ESPN. Enjoy your time on the sister network NESN and hopefully you won’t ruin MLB Network for the rest of the world who aren’t Sawx fans. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
“If Wang and Matsui are gone next year, the Yankees will have no Asians on their team
I bet that affects their revenue and marketing quite a bit.”
Don’t forget Damon is half-Asian.
I wouldn’t blame the Yanks for not paying Wang $5m, but I wish they’d sign him to some lesser contract. If he can put it back together, he ought to do it as a Yankee.
murphydog -
I know. I know.
But especially with a guy like Wang, you hate to see things end like this.
But, then again, there is never a good way for baseball endings unless the player retires before he deteriorates completely (like Paul O’Neill).
I just feel like this was such an unfortunate confluence of circumstances with Wang, and that last season, so many things got messed up. In a perfect world, I’d want the Yankees to non-tender Wang, but reach an agreement and pave the way for him to come back. If he can’t, well, then he can’t. That would feel better to me.
However, if Wang can find a better situation for himself, by all means, he should find it.
“What could Wang likely get an offer for on the open market?”
Well, he’s a reclamation project at this point coming off surgery that may or may not leave him with his previous level of athleticism and parts of two seasons of bad stuff on the mound. The Yankees are/were his best case scenario. IMO, anybody else is buying a pig in a poke. How do you value a guy in that situation? Not even a doc can predict how the shoulder will come back, it’s not Tommy John surgery. Tough case.
That comment by ‘jfk5611′ was totally out of line. Gammons may like his home team, and he may show it, but he isn’t a bad journalist and I like him better than alot of the “personalities” ESPN has on their baseball staff.
I’m looking right at you John Kruk and Joe Morgan.
I wonder if the Yankees can offer Wang a contract that gives incentives for innings pitched, and an option for 2011 that automatically kicks in if he spends the last 60 days or so on the 25-man roster.
“Don’t forget Damon is half-Asian”
So if Damon, Matsui and Wang don’t come back, that’s 2.5 Asians all gone from the team. The only one left is Igawa, but we don’t want to go there…
Nick was it $800K? I thought it was $400K.
In any event, I would miss seeing Wang on the mound for the Yankees. For those two magic years when he was pitching I had a lot of confidence that the Yankees were going to win. Even though he had some games that he struggled a bit, he never got rattled. After his foot injury its been a lot of tough times for him.
I also think that the rehab from the foot injury was not handled entirely the right way. I don’t know if it was all on the Yankees, be it bad information from the doctors or their evaluations, but it got compounded by them trying to rush him up. He wasn’t ready and it was ugly.
If the Yankees do make an offer with incentives, I hope they look to do the right thing for both their club and for him. I don’t believe in “free lunch”, and the last season ended up a costly deal for the Yankees. (Though nothing close to what they spent on Pavano and Igawa).
Thanks, vin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saalGKY7ifU
I’m looking right at you John Kruk and Joe Morgan.
___________
That’s setting the bar pretty high, Rob. /Sarcasm
The Yanks are in a tough spot. They have to offer Wang a contract within 20% of his previous deal – which would be 4 million. The fact that he probably won’t pitch more than 3-4 months makes offering him a contract financially irresponsible. Not to mention he’s coming back from not just the shoulder surgery, but he still needs to prove that his mechanics are OK after the foot injury.
Hopefully the Yanks have treated him better behind the scenes than we all think, and he didn’t take the arbitration stuff personally, and he can re-sign for a fair market deal.
Nick,
Keep your chin up!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....ature=fvst
mtu-
thanks. i really don’t know that much about sheets as i haven’t watched him pitch that much.i’m not a stats guy, so i need to see him to have a more informed judgement.
he’s obviously good when he’s healthy, but i’d really like to see hughes be given a good shot at starting.
Hard to believe $ 4 million dollars is an insult ?!The Mick and Joe D. made $ 100.000 per year tops in their time in baseball. At least, there has been mutual benefit for Wang and the Yankees unlike American Idol who departed last year.
The Yankees need to think long and hard about this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
I love Wang, and I hope he’ll get himself right in mind and of body. I wish him a good future, even though I doubt it’ll be in Pinstripes.
I’ve watched Sheets pitch a lot over the years for a kinda nerdy reason (he’s been on my fantasy team several times).
He is a really fun guy to watch. He works quickly and throws a ton of strikes. He works in the low to mid 90′s but can go 95+ when he needs to. His out pitch is a big 12-6 curveball. When he’s healthy he consistently goes deep into games and walks very few. IMO if he’s 100% then he’s the best free agent pitcher available this year (his best is better than Lackey’s best).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oPuVAdGkk8
That Gammons column wasn’t bad at all. He wasn’t writing for Yankee fans, nor was he writing a history of the last 20 years in baseball; he was writing about some of his fondest memories. He was writing for himself. Cut him some slack.
All professional accounts about Gammons are in agreement: class act, good newspaperman. Yes, he lives in what we consider bizarro world: Red Sox Nation. But he’s entitled to root for his team, especially if he minds his manners when doing so. And he does.
IMO if we were fans of any other team but the Yankees, we’d all like Peter.
Sheets is a monster, when healthy. I recently watched the MLB Network’s All Time Game where Sheets struck out 18 Braves.
http://www.baseball-reference......5160.shtml
1 walk, 18 K’s, 1 er, 3 h
Opposing pitcher? Jaret Wright.
Think about this situation (Peter Abe described before): yankee non-tender Wang, he become a free agent, Red sox (or other major league team) sign him, he come back on June and pitch at yankee stadium againt yankee…..
I like Gammons. Hes a huge Red Sox Homer but he’s always been respectful of the Yankees and he seems like a nice guy. Plus he went to UNC so I can’t hate him on principle.
Come on Cash…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dael4sb42nI
“Red sox (or other major league team) sign him, he come back on June and pitch at yankee stadium againt yankee…..”
That could very well happen. However, he only has 14 teams to choose from because he’d be out of his mind to go to the NL.
Wang has had two shoulder surgeries and will not be back in June beating anyone. And Pete would love it if the team he loves got the player he wrote a foreign language bio of.
murph, ill go you one further, im a lifelong yankees fan and i like gammons alot. i get that he’s from boston and just has alot more knowlege about the socks as a result, but he’s very informative and very connected across all of baseball, and he comes off as a nice guy, which everyone says he really is in person.
its really sad how people on here obsess over him. if you dont like him, dont read him. the guy above who is craven in his hatred not only linked to gammons colunm but has been writing about gamons all day long, which if you are going to hire a columnist is exactly what you want people to do, pay attention to him whether you like him or not.
hating on him is weak, obsessing in your hatred is really sad.
Vin, I watched that game also the other day. I’ve always thought Hughes reminded me of Sheets a little bit. Sheets throws a little harder than Hughes (the starter Hughes) but they both have that big 12-6 breaking ball. Sheets is a strike throwing machine when he’s healthy. I’d love to get him but I don’t think the Yankees will sign a pitcher until the Halladay situation gets sorted out and by then Sheets may already be gone.
““Red sox (or other major league team) sign him, he come back on June and pitch at yankee stadium againt yankee…..”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded
Yes, and it just happens that of his fondest memories, none involved any of the 5 NYY championship years (including one of the greatest teams of all time, the 1998 NYY). Gammons is supposed to love baseball, you’d think he might have a fond memory of that year).
Being a fan of your team is fine, even of the Red Sox.
Acting like a professional is another matter.
Not mentioning one NYY championship year speaks to his unprofessionalism.
I have heard that he was a good journalist in his time, a pioneer. I never read his journalism at that time.
But over the past 10 or 15 years, I have not seen one piece of good journalism from Gammons. Where did all his “previous journalistic integrity” go?
Why should he get a pass from fans, especially NYY fans, for being a nice guy (which I’ll admit he appears to be, or he could just be a phony).
my prediction is wang will sign with the cardinals because of their inclination to push the sinker in reclamation projects and wang will have a good second half of 2010 followed by going 19-7 in 2011 and keith law and will carroll will leave him off their cy young ballot because his strike out rate is too low.
my back up prediction is he’ll sign with tampa bay and get reunited with the pitching coach that taught him the sinker in the first place.
if he wins 19 for them , keith law and will carrol both still leave him off their ballot because too many batted balls in play off him went at fielders.
Way to completely generalize keith law’s reasons for leaving Carpenter off his ballot
I’ve heard Gammons say nice things about the Yankees many times. Arod picked Gammons to do his interview this spring because he knew he would be fair and Gammons was very professional throughout that ordeal. Gammons has also praised Jeter and Rivera at length many times.
Ham Fighters:
To me it’s about what kind of fan a person is. As I got older I mellowed and came to appreciate the game as much as my favorite team. Anyone who loves the game has a common bond with me. I have nothing against the most zealous Yankee fans who see fandom as a zero sum game: any respect shown the arch enemy is disrespect for the home team. If that’s how they choose to worship in the Church of Baseball, so be it. I’m a kinder gentler fan these days.
There’s so much more to baseball than just the Yankees.
But I do confess that deep in my heart, I keep a small vial of emergency hate for the Sox, just in case. You know, just to keep everybody honest.
randy needs new people to hate on since his cashman-bashing hasn’t worked out so well…
“randy needs new people to hate on since his cashman-bashing hasn’t worked out so well…”
randy l. is biding his time. This is just a lull, trust me
Gammons called Dioner Navarro either a midget or a dwarf when he was all ascared the Yanks were gonna pick up Randy Johnson at the tradeline back in `04.
If Theo thinks he going to build the Bridge Over the River Wang, he can forget it.
Murphy Dog–I agree completely and well said. Let everyone root for the team of their choice and root against the Yankees. It makes it all the more fun. Why should, after all, someone from Boston root for the Yankees?
“If Theo thinks he going to build the Bridge Over the River Wang, he can forget it.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....eature=fvw
awesome film right there!
“Way to completely generalize keith law’s reasons for leaving Carpenter off his ballot”
actually i’m poking fun at the sabermetric world’s bashing of wang because according to their dogma he couldn’t win 19 games in a row with his strike out rate despite the fact he did it twice in a row.
Gammons is a good guy – a crook? I mean, so he loves the Sox – he clearly does not dislike the Yankees.
I don’t care if Wang is half-Asian or half polka-dotted. I don’t care what color or race any person (or player) is – that should have no bearing on whatever decision the Yankees make.
Except for a couple of games, Wang has been awful at Fenway – he doesn’t make any sense for them.
“actually i’m poking fun at the sabermetric world’s bashing of wang because according to their dogma he couldn’t win 19 games in a row with his strike out rate despite the fact he did it twice in a row.”
See? I told you.
If the Cashman thing falls through, he’s always got sabermetricians to mock and dislike
And they are so inviting as targets.
Wang won, particularly with a mostly awful D behind him was cause he got a lot ground balls and DPs and didn’t give up many homers.
Randy, So WARP, VORP, LIPS, DIPS, DICE, and JFR (Jedi Force Rating) mean nothing to you?
it sure would be nice to see wang back in pinstripes when he gets his game back, but whatever happens i wish him the best of luck! he may have some bad feelings about it if he’s non tendtered and goes somewhere else, but im sure he’ll get a standing O the next time he pitches at YS no matter what uni he’s wearning. (ok boston may not work, but any other uni…)
“I don’t care if Wang is half-Asian or half polka-dotted. I don’t care what color or race any person (or player) is – that should have no bearing on whatever decision the Yankees make.”
Generally I agree. I am glad, however, that Mr. Branch Rickey took color into account a few years ago.
“Wang won, particularly with a mostly awful D behind him was cause he got a lot ground balls and DPs and didn’t give up many homers.”
True… and few BBs too.
“awesome film right there!”
watched a history channel documentary about it recently and they had interviews with a lot of the guys who were prisoners there .
they said the movie was all wrong.
they never marched with that kind of spirit. they were just trying to live another day.
and it really was another river. the film maker liked the sound of the river kwai that was nearby better.
and the prisoners built two bridges, one wood and one steel.
the bridges were used by japan right through the war with occasional bombings temporarily interfering with it’s use.
Wang was always miscast as a #1 starter. If he could get his sinker back then he’d be one of the better back end of the rotation starters in baseball. Thats a big if though, I don’t know what his status is.
Betsy, he does not dislike the Yankees so much that he did not have 1 fond memory of a NYY championship year, of which there were 5, during his last 20 years.
What does that tell you.
He can claim to like or respect Jeter or Mo, but the bottom line is, none of us on this board know the true Peter Gammons. Maybe even the players or management of the teams dont know the true Gammons.
If I had to bet, ESPN and his family know who Gammons really is.
IMO, he is a phony, who deep down despises the Yankees, and wants to appear to everyone else as a great guy.
One example came not too long ago, on the night of Nov. 4, when he sat at the ESPN at Yankee stadium desk, slouched over like he was about to croak. Then, when Mariano came over (the guy he supposedly respects), Gammons had to make a sour grapes over 2009 mention of the 2001 Game 7 9th inning to Mariano.
There was no reason for it at all, just like there was no reason to insult the wife of a player who decided he wanted to play for the Yankees.
He then purported to know that Teixeira did not sign because his father was friends with Bucky Dent, or because he grew up a Yankees fan, but solely because of money.
When things go wrong, your true colors surface. And after we won the 2009 WS, and after we signed Mark Teixeira, his true colors were plain as day.
He had okay K-rates in the minors, but Joe and Mel were against pitching inside, etc, and felt he could limit his pitch counts just by throwing the sinker, and for awhile it worked like a charm.
MLB channel is reporting that the Yankees have offered Damon a 2 year deal worth 18M
I don’t think Kevin Towers is a cinch to come to NY. Per Heyman, he’s thinking about the M’s as well – he’s good friends with their GM. I thought he wanted to work for a big-market team – the Yanks fit the bill perfectly. I hope he signs…..
Also says that Damon is seeking a 3-4 year deal worth 13M annually, I say good luck with that Johnny.
CR, IMO you have an awful lot of hate built up for anyone that says anything nice about the Sox……
Murphydog, you know what I mean…….
While I agree to be a great pitcher you do not need to K a lot of guys, it is hard to argue the knock against Wang’s low K rates did not come back to haunt him. When you cannot miss bats it is generally difficult to be successful over a long period of time, because one thing goes wrong and you are toast.
Wang pitched to contact and relied on the location of his sinker.
One thing goes wrong and Wang could no longer get his sinker to sink
Wang did not have the stuff to miss bats
Wang proceeded to get crushed like no other pitcher in the history of baseball.
Wang’s inability to miss bats is one of the major reasons I think the Yanks never bought out his arbitration years and never planned to sign him long-term. Good move by them.
Randy, So WARP, VORP, LIPS, DIPS, DICE, and JFR (Jedi Force Rating) mean nothing to you?
blake-
not very much.
to me they are another language.
i already know a language to talk about the game of baseball. but that doesn’t mean that the new language of sabermetrics doesn’t work for the people that don’t speak the one i do.
do i think they are coming up with baseball concepts that are new?
no, i just think they are saying things in a different way.
Besty, I do not have a problem with the Red Sox, or anyone else that has something positive to say about them. I like Tim Wakefield, Tito Francona, Mike Lowell.
I have a problem with a guy who claims to love the game of baseball, actually loves the Red Sox, is paid to be a professional, and then lets his fandom of the Sox preclude from being fair and unbiased.
His sour grapes over Teixeira and our 2009 WS are the best examples I can come up with at the moment. I am sure there are many more.
But those examples show what he really is, and it certainly is not a guy who like the Yankees.
CR9 = Jim Pir-One?
CR9:
First you say: “… but the bottom line is, none of us on this board know the true Peter Gammons. Maybe even the players or management of the teams dont know the true Gammons…”
Then: “IMO, he is a phony, who deep down despises the Yankees, and wants to appear to everyone else as a great guy.”
But wait, I thought you said none of us on this board know the true Peter Gammons?
Dumb question, but why do so many people abbreviate Million as MM? There aren’t two M’s in the word and the business documents that have figures in the millions that I have seen always just put “M” if they don’t want to put in all those zeros.
Does anyone know?
The roman numeral M is 1000, so written as MM is 2000.
Randy, I think the Sabermetric stats are fine as additional information. What I have a problem with is when people look at them as the “be all end all” about a player. Baseball is a game of many many variables and coincidences and not everything can be quantified in it. At the end of the day nothing beats the old EBT (eyeball test) for me.
I don’t know I just write M because I’m lazy, I don’t know the real reason.
murphydog, I said none of us know him. (Maybe SJ44)
I then stated my opinion. My opinion is not fact.
___
I have never seen Yankees fans go to such lengths to defend a scummy Red Sox.
I’ve been in meetings all day. Was the 2 year, 18 M dollar offer to Damon old news? Heyman is reporting it I think.
Abdababdaserser:
Why do you ask? Counting the money in your mattress tonight?
I really have no idea about the “MM” other than that it may simply be to avoid confusion with using “M” as the letter M.
1000 X 1000?
I say Eff You yanks. At this point, I am sure CMW doesn’t want to come back. Why should he? This team has treated him like a PoS. Who treats a 2 time 19 game winner, Cy young contender like this? They spent all this time sucking up to Joba who one day may be as good as CMW if they are lucky. Well, this is going to come back and bite them in the rear. Hopefully CMW will go to Philly and beat Cashman in world series in 2010.
From all accounts, the Yankees are just monitoring the Halladay situation. If they’re not going to actively try and trade for him (and by that, I mean trying to negotiate with Anthopolous, talking to him, that kind of thing), what’s the point? The Angels are all sorts of aggressive and so are the Phillies. At this point, if Cash isn’t really putting in the effort to get Doc, then why not just bow out completely (because there’s no point, when other teams ARE trying to acquire him) and focus on Sheets or whomever?
“murphydog, I said none of us know him. (Maybe SJ44)
I then stated my opinion. My opinion is not fact.”
And I’m trying to suggest that you are getting a little carried away because you don’t seem to realize you are getting all worked up because others hold a contrary opinion.
And that’s just my opinion.
Someone posted this on twitter – a Jeter and Alex interview from 98. Its really cute.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVDRYCrmyMU
Just heard Jim Bowden confirm on MLB Home Plate station on XM that Wang will not be offered arbitration from what he heard from a Yankee official.
Betsy,
why do believe any of that? The Yanks are just waiting till the price gets sane.
murphydog-
a far as gammons goes, i spent an hour or so sitting next to him on the yankee bench at fenway as he was interviewing the mattingy /boggs yankees before a game of the week.
he couldn’t have been more polite and nice telling me to sit on the other side of the tape on the wall a few inches and no problem with getting in the way. while waiting to be begin the interviews he asked mattingly how he learned to hit the green monster and go the opposite way so well.
mattingly said it was how his wiffle ball yard was set up. other players jumped into the conversation about their wiffle ball yards and gammons and mattingly clearly had a good time taking with each other . if gammons is good enough for mattingly, he’s good enough for me.
i pretty much changed my mind about him that day.
murphydog, That’s exactly what I am doing. And I should not because everyone is entitled to their opinions….
But I would like somebody with a favorable opinion of Gammons to give their opinion on those 2 instances of what I view as Gammons’ sour grapes. (Teix wife and 2009 WS Nov. 4 basically bringing up bad memories for Mo)
How do you insult the wife of a player because he chose the Yankees?
How do you claim to respect the “MVP of the last 15 years” and then bring up possibly the worst memory he has involving baseball at one of the happiest times of his life?
How do you then claim to know that Teix signed with the Yankees solely for the money?
Did JD Drew sign with the Red Sox for the most money?
Did the Red Sox cheat the system by signing Junichi Tazawa?
Did you try to do an interview with Ortiz about his steroid allegations?
Or did you let him off the hook on ESPN (THE national sports network) and say the words “I believe him. He is a great guy.”
I don’t think Cash would have hung around this Halladay thing this long if he wasn’t up to something.
blake,
It’s not even that, it’s he keeps talking about adding to the rotation, and he hasn’t done anything about it. He clearly has a plan.
Davidoff reports Wang will not be tendered.
Phil, I know he says his priority is pitching, pitching, pitching. It doesn’t seem like he’s content with what he has at the moment.
CR9:
OK, rage on.
blake
December 11th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
Randy, I think the Sabermetric stats are fine as additional information. What I have a problem with is when people look at them as the “be all end all” about a player. Baseball is a game of many many variables and coincidences and not everything can be quantified in it. At the end of the day nothing beats the old EBT (eyeball test) for me.
————————
If you actually knew anything about sabermetric statistics you would know that many of these stats do take into account the many variables and coincidences you are speaking of.
For example OPS+ takes into account the ballpark.
And unless YOU are a professional major league scout YOUR eyeball test is essentially meaningless
Phil, if Cash was really that interested in Doc, wouldn’t he be talking to A.A., working the phones, trying to get him to reduce his asking price? That’s all I’m saying……just waitng and waiting while other teams are actively negotiating seems kind of silly to me.
Yeah, well, I kept being told that the Cylons had a plan too, and then they didn’t.
(caveat: I have not yet viewed “Battlestar Galactica: The Plan” yet. No spoilers, please.)
Holy cow, maybe Cashman is a Cylon.
LordVader
December 11th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
I say Eff You yanks. At this point, I am sure CMW doesn’t want to come back. Why should he? This team has treated him like a PoS. Who treats a 2 time 19 game winner, Cy young contender like this? They spent all this time sucking up to Joba who one day may be as good as CMW if they are lucky. Well, this is going to come back and bite them in the rear. Hopefully CMW will go to Philly and beat Cashman in world series in 2010.
—————————
The way the Yankees treated Wang could not have worked out more perfect for them. They foresaw something like this happening to him and were spot on in their prediction.
Would you rather be sitting here today having bought out Wang’s arbitration years?
randy l.:
I recall a very touching story about Gammons and Mattingly.
http://little-ball.blogspot.co.....etter.html
murphydog:
I am not angry. I was attempting to discuss and get the opinion of others, so I could see things from a different perspective. But thanks for turning my valid questions into a joke.
Doc’s injury history? Am I missing something? LOL I still get a laugh at how Joba/Hughes and Montero is seen as equivalent to Bucholz/Kelly
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....d-sox.html
Given Roy Halladay’s injury history, Gammons said “it would be a disaster” for Boston to trade Casey Kelly and Clay Buchholz for Halladay and sign the Toronto ace to a long-term contract.
Lets go Yanks, if you think 50 different stats can tell you everything about a player then you are mistaken. I’m not a professional scout but I have played or been around baseball for 28 years now. I know a little bit about the game. Unless YOU are a professional scout then your opinion is essentially meaningless also.
Betsy, we don’t know that Cashman isn’t talking to A.A. often. Cashman is very low profile on these things.
I don’t think that report is official, but I’m sure it’s the truth…….I’m fine with whatever the Yankees decide to do.
Yanks are not in on Doc right now. The $ required to sign him beyond next year scares them off because of the money already invested in AJ and CC.
The comment about Teix’ wife was asinine, but IMO, it’s nothing to get up in arms about. I mean, I did at the time, but I’m not going to work up a good hatred for the man because of it.
I never said the stats are everything. My point is:
stats>>>>>>>>>>>>>>guy on coach watching game
Phil, is that 10:25 comment yours?
If the Jays don’t lower their expectations then they are gonna be stuck with a disgruntled Doc come April.
Blake, absolutely Cash has a plan……and he clearly wants more pitching. I love Doc and would love to have him, but a LOT has to go right for us to get him………and, as I’ve expressed before, if we wait for this situation to get resolved, our other options will be gone.
Betsy,
Until Halladay is traded elsewhere, which he has not been, don’t assume anything. A few days ago, the Jays were talking about how important secrecy was to the process, and hours later, the Angel offer was floated. Does that sound like secrecy? Let the Jedi work.
10:25 Phil was not me. You can click on our names to tell us apart.
Blake, but my point is, the Angels (and Phillies) are working hard to make something happen……Unless Anthopolous is a man of his word and calls Cash before he accepts any offer, just sitting back waiting for the price to be lowered doesn’t do anything. We’ll know when the price has been lowered when A.A. accepts an Angels/Phillies/whomever offer…….
I hope CMW can come back from his injury and continue pitching.
What team will give Damon 3yrs/39 million? Not the Yankees.
“And unless YOU are a professional major league scout YOUR eyeball test is essentially meaningless”
lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins)-
at least i don’t need a thermometer in my shower telling when the water feels right like you probably do.
the game is not that complicated.
“But thanks for turning my valid questions into a joke.”
CR9, everybody conceded he was a Red Sox homer a long time ago. You were still trying to prove it however and got more insistent with each post. And your 10:09 post was not a request for different views. It was an indictment.
Two people who have met him (randy l. from our community here and, based on the link I put up a few minutes ago, I’ll include Don Mattingly) seem to think pretty highly of the guy.
But you don’t have to.
Lets go Yankees, stats + what you see with your eyes= evaluation of the player. Thats what my point is. You are much too confrontational.
I didn’t think so, Phil…..I didn’t know you could tell that stuff by clicking on the names – thanks!
From what I can tell the Jays want Montero more than anyone else that has been mentioned. Therefore, before they make a deal they probably will give Cashman the opportunity to trump the current offer. The only problem with this waiting around as Betsy mentioned is that by the time something happens with Halladay, the other options may be gone.
Weird – I clicked on the “wrong” Phil’s name and I get directed to Yankees.com. I clicked on your name and I get some weird Ad……
Phil, good points. I have noticed that Tony Reagins goes about his business differently than Cash and Ruben Amaro. Reagins has talked a LOT about Doc…….but Cash has said almost nothing and Amaro has outright said that a deal is unlikely (so, in other words, he’s almost like Cash).
Again I ask, is the 2 year offer of 18M to Damon old news? MLB network is reporting that the Yankees have offered him that but Damon wants 3-4 years at 13 million per.
Blake, the funny thing is that the Jays seem to think Montero is a 1B……..I suppose that’s not surprising as most outside the Yankees organization don’t think he’ll stick at catcher…..
AT this point, I’m not sure if they are looking for a team’s best prospects or specific needs. We heard that they wanted a SS, Catcher and pitcher. Well, Montero is a catcher, but if they think he’s really a 1B, wouldn’t they go for Romine? A.A. strikes me as a smart guy – I’d be surprised if he turned int JP all over again.
Amaro’s not like Cash. Cash speaks in the abstract until things are done. And Betsy, that’s my blog you get to if you click my name.
Blake, I’m not sure if it’s old news, new news or any news…….There has never been official confirmation of a Yankees offer, just buzz that that is the kind of offer they would be making. I think if Damon doesn’t get his act together soon, he’s going to be looking for another home.
CR9
I will give it a shot and offer you a different perspective. I did not see Gammons following the World Series victory this season so I don’t know about how he acted around Mo but I remember the scenario involving Texeira’s signing with us. I think Gammons was more upset about Boras than he was about the Yankees. He even went so far as to call Tex Boras’s model client or something to that effect. I won’t deny that Peter is and always will be a very avid Red Sox fan (he does have season tickets still, I believe) but I am not certain that he hates the Yankees the way you think he does. Either way, I am glad that he has left ESPN because it means one less Red Sox fan at Bristol (a drop in the ocean, I know).
“But I would like somebody with a favorable opinion of Gammons to give their opinion on those 2 instances of what I view as Gammons’ sour grapes.”
I posted the above prior to my questions. It was not an indictment. I actually wanted to know what others with a favorable opinion of Gammons think of those questions, especially the first 3.
While I appreciate Randy l.’s story, from what I gathered from randy was that he met him one time. It is very difficult to gauge a person’s character from meeting him on one occasion.
I also read the story you linked, and it is a heartwarming story, but IMO, that story is not an indication of how Mattingly felt about Gammons. It is more an indication of what a kind and thoughtful person Mattingly is. Mattingly would have done that for anyone, IMO.
I think the Wang saga shows the game is very complicated. Just looking at it in a simple manner, the guy was a 19 game winner and young ace of the staff. You would think absolutely lock him up long-term. Because of what I sure consisted of hours of analysis and pages of data the Yankees decided not to do so and it could not have worked out better.
I just do not understand why so many fans refuse to embrace great advances in the field of evaluating players esp. when all of the great front offices in baseball rely heavily on them.
Oh, lol – I’m sorry Phil- I had no idea you even had a blog. I’m going to check that out now…..That’s true about Cash – I know folks make fun of him, but I think Cash is a pip.
Wow, Phil – nice blog. I’m going to spend some time tomorrow really checking it out. It looks like you put a lot of time and effort into that…….
BTW, it was 50 years ago today that the Yanks traded for Roger Maris.
Did you know that Don Larsen and Hank Bauer were part of the package that went to KC for Maris? I did not.
murphydog-
nice link there about mattingly and gammons.
you couldn’t fake the good natured bantering back and forth gammons and mattingly had with each other that i observed.
i factor in everything gammon’s writes that he’s a red sox fan.
but also that he’s a baseball fan.
i think he’s had a great career. nothing was better back in the 70′s than his boston globe sunday morning marathon baseball column .
Betsy, This is just my opinion but if the Yankees sit down as an organization and decide that Montero isn’t a catcher in the big leagues then I would include him in the deal for Halladay if that would make it happen. Tex has 1b locked down for awhile. I know Montero projects to have a special bat but even at 33 a dominant ace-type starting pitcher is more valuable than a AA player without a postion. Now if they think he will be able to catch then that changes things. If Halladay helps you win 2 or 3 world series then its worth it anyway to me..
That no good Gammons. How dare he say such awful, awful things about Mariano Rivera.
“In the past 15 years, Rivera is the sport’s MVP and Cy Young, and in my 20 years at ESPN, he might be the most distinctive person.”
This man has a dark heart and a soul to match.
Jacob, I see your point with Gammons dislike of Boras, but other than that, you did not answer any of my other questions.
Randy, While I admit that you have met Gammons more times than I have, you met him in a personal setting. That does not speak to his actions as a professional.
He is also a baseball fan….
that had no fond memories in his last 20 years of any NYY championship season.
” Because of what I sure consisted of hours of analysis and pages of data the Yankees decided not to do so and it could not have worked out better.”
lets go yanks-
you mean when a team ruins a two time 19 game winner, you think that worked out well?
anyone who knows anything about the yankees behind the scenes dealings with wang knows that the yankees did not leave wang alone with his sinker.
they constantly messed with it because they, like you and the rest of the sabermetric world, didn’t think he could keep doing it.
had they left him alone , wang probably would have kept winning 17-20 games a year indefinitely.
you can challenge me all you want about what i know, but i got the guy that taught wang his sinker his first pitching coach job so don’t even go there.
the fact is you know very little about the wang saga with the yankees and you’ve taken that little bit and made it into a nice little dogmatic sabermetric fairy tale.
all the time the yankees were coaching wang one way, whenever he got hammered he’d call the pitching coach who taught it to him.
you think cashman knew that ?
he would have had a stroke, but it’s a fact.
Randy, I think I’d call that having knowledge of the situation.
cr9-
yeah it’s just an anecdotal one time brief encounter with gammons, but i’ve read him a ton , mostly in the past, but i think you’d be surprised how well he gets along with yankee players.
he probably doesn’t like the yankees as a team, but i don’t think he lets that get in the way of interacting with individual players.
Blake, if Montero is such a special hitter, I couldn’t justify trading him. I do think Phil is untouchable……I’m not sure what they think of Joba.
Gammons is obviously a nice chap but he’s not going to win any objectivity awards.
His ardent and transparent preference for anything Red Sox – which has caused him to declare, among other things, that “Craig Hansen is the best setup man in baseball,” can’t inspire anything but derision.
I’ve read Gammons for years, and he has gotten progressively crankier and less and less professional in his baseball observations.
Calling him a vaudeville act, at this point, is something he has earned.
“but i think you’d be surprised how well he gets along with yankee players.
he probably doesn’t like the yankees as a team, but i don’t think he lets that get in the way of interacting with individual players.”
I can see where your coming from, and may even agree with it. He probably genuinely likes some or most Yankee players, but despises the Yankees as a team.
That would explain the derision shown to Teix and his wife. It very well could have been his anger at the Yankees organization, and not at Teix personally.
Oh, man. I hope the Yankees will keep the door open, and that Wang will find his way back.
I wouldn’t mind a reunion between those Torre and Wang if the Yankees treat Wang badly. Wang only knows the Yankees, but at least Torre would be a friendly face.
“I wouldn’t mind a reunion between those Torre and Wang if the Yankees treat Wang badly. Wang only knows the Yankees, but at least Torre would be a friendly face.”
m-
if that happened trisha would have a stroke or at least a real big hissy fit
Gammons’ obvious biases don’t show up as much in his writing. But, when the red light goes on, it’s a whole different story.
Gammons is like one of those really irritating mothers who can’t get through a conversation without talking about how great their kid is. Gammon rarely gets through an analysis about the Yankees or a Yankee that doesn’t mention the Red Sox or one of their players.
Doc’s story is really unbelievable:
http://mopupduty.com/index.php.....invention/
That’s right. The book…
I would only allow Wang to go to Torre because Torre’s reputation is for trashing bullpen arms, not starters.
If the Yankees let Wang go, it doesn’t mean they’re treating him badly. This is a business- they have to do what’s right for the team. If Wang personalizes it, that would be a shame, but it’s not the Yankees fault.
“Gammons is like one of those really irritating mothers who can’t get through a conversation without talking about how great their kid is.”
That is the perfect line, right there.
Except Gammons is paid to be professional.
Also, Gammons rarely get through any of his writing or analysis of any team without making mention of them.
_____
Re: Wang
I hope more than anything, that we sign Wang back after he is nontendered. How much money can he expect to get elsewhere? We have signed Dotel and Lieber to 2 year deals in the past, in which they had injuries.
Back in the `90s and early in this decade, it used to be fun to watch Gammons go after the Red Sox mismanagement. It all changed when Theo got hired. He became a shill for his little crushee, and basically made a love struck jackass out of himself in many ways. Cooking up that “deplore face” for the Yanks, running for president of RSN, saying insane things on TV. But in it’s way, all of that has been just as funny as when he used to rip on the Red Sox.
Per Kepner, the Yankees would like to sign Wang to a minor-league deal, but I doubt he would accept that….
Betsy,
Not offering arb. is not treating him bad. But not making any attempt to sign him back would be. Sounds like they would like to. But why wouldn’t they? They’d look foolish for letting their former ace go.
Some of you should be happy, you’ll be seeing a lot less of Gammons. He’s not going to be on MLBN daily like he was on ESPN. He’s doing some features, but will leave the daily reporting of player movements and such to guys like Heyman, Verducci and Rosanthal.
MTU
December 11th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Randy-
Thanks I value your opinion. What would you think of the Yanks getting Sheets, and moving Joba Phil to the pen for part of the year ?
————————————————————
You poor, misguided fool. Do you realize that all this board will ever read from Randy is that somebody values his opinion? It was bad enough to read about his golfing glory. Now, he’ll be throwing this in our face.
Evening, Randy.
M, the Yanks just have to do what they feel is right for their team……..I don’t agree that they’d look foolish. Fans might hate it, but that’s their deal. Wang is coming off of shoulder surgery (not his first, I might add) – I think anyone that believes he’s going to come back and be what he was before is being overly optimistic.
If Wang doesn’t want to sign a minor-league deal, then more power to him and good luck with another team.
GB, how are you doing? I see your sense of humor is still intact….
I’m not so sure that’s the only thing Wang is going to get is a minor league deal. He’s probably going to miss part of the season and hasn’t even begun throwing the ball.
Wang reuniting with his buddy Bowa in LA? Have they expressed interest or is this speculative?
Craw, yep – of course his agent is going to say he’ll be ready for the season, but I wouldn’t expect him to be ready for May or June……and I doubt he’d be good at that time.
Pat, it’s speculative……
GB7-
My sincerest apologies for being polite to Randy. I know better now.
“Wang reuniting with his buddy Bowa in LA? Have they expressed interest or is this speculative?”
It’s speculative up to the point that the Dodgers can’t experess interest until he’s let go. Tampering and whatnot.
It is better to be classy than cheap (re: Wang).
Rather than going to arbitration with Serio Mitre, give that money to Wang
Betsy,
I don’t think you’re reading me correctly.
I said that if the Yankees didn’t even make an attempt to sign him back after the non-tendering him they’d look foolish.
Why let a guy who won 19 games in back to back seasons go without even attempting to see what he has to offer?
And I said nothing about Wang walking away. Of course he has every right to. But if they offered a minor league contract and he said no, then the Yankees did their due diligence and they wouldn’t look foolish.
I only meant that they would look foolish for letting him go with no attempt to reach out to him after non-tendering him. And yes, they would. Cold and heartless after paying lesser pitchers like Dotel and Sergio to rehab.
Betsy – high on pie
December 11th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
GB, how are you doing? I see your sense of humor is still intact….
————————————————————
Evening, Betsy. Thanks for asking. The news wasn’t as good as I wanted, but, I expected that. It also isn’t as bad, as it could have been. They’re going to remove a bit of tissue tomorrow. I’ll still be able to enjoy my Coor’s Light and pizza. They suggest that I lose my stash of Marlboro’s though.
The Yankees don’t need Halladay. Like I said he will be a free agent, and right now he would cost too much in prospects and money. The yankees want to reduce payroll over time not increase it, and to not destroy the farm.
I rather spend the money on a Felix Hernandez or Justin Verlander down the line.
No brainier for him to sign with Torre. Dodgers need pitching and Wang was an ace in the AL East, no doubt he could dominate the NL West.
Torre and Bowa loved him and he will get a chance to stick it to us. How much do you think Torre would love it to pick up our former ace off the scrap heap and turn him back into a 19 game winner, to stick it to us? Cashman will be wondering what could have been for a couple mil bucks…
Pretty foolish for an organization with as many resources as the Yankees to let a 2-time 19 game winner just walk away, no?
We commit so much money to guys who are awful (like Mitre) but can’t afford to give one last shot to a guy who was our ace for 2 years? What else would that put that $2 mil towards anyway?
Teams with tremendous financial advantages like we have should be able to take these risks no problem.
MTU-
that’s ok. it’s more important to be polite to gb7. he’s the only one on the blog with a blunderbuss.
Yankees took him to arbitration over 800K after winning 38 games in 2 years.
They admittedly botched his rehab over the winter which didn’t allow him to perform well this year.
Then during his second rehab during the year, they cut short his assignment to bring him up to a long man. Rather than Albaladejo or someone, they bring up their injured starter.
That’s like you giving your heart and soul to a girl while she cheats on you.
GB,
Again, God bless you. You’re gonna beat whatever it is.
Yanks are up against their budget and couldn’t risk a 5M slot on Wang while he rehabs. Shoulders are notoriously difficult to come back from and this is his second or third shoulder issue. They can pay him, but they just can’t have it count against this luxury taxable budget right now.
randy l.
December 12th, 2009 at 12:23 am
MTU-
that’s ok. it’s more important to be polite to gb7. he’s the only one on the blog with a blunderbuss.
————————————————————
LMAO. Hey…it’s never been fired in anger…unless you count the turkey that I shot in the tail feathers. That’s a fun gun to fire, but, man…does it kick. The great thing is, I’m never short of ammo for it. rocks, pellets, bits of ground up scrap metal.
Forget Wang.
If you want to sign a reclamation guy then go after Sheets.
Phil
December 12th, 2009 at 12:27 am
GB,
Again, God bless you. You’re gonna beat whatever it is.
————————————————————
Thanks for the kind thoughts, Phil. A couple of days here and then a week in Ft. Myers, Fl, before I can fly back to Savannah. It could be worse. It could be the whole lung. They did promise not to put a balloon in there. Imagine a balloon with helium. Every time I’d cough would sound like a chipmunk.
gb7-
when i was a kid stealing apples with from the farmer across the way he’d shoot rock salt at us .
i never got hit , but some of my friends did.
thus my healthy respect for shotguns.
Balloons are fun. Knock it out, GB.
randy l.
December 12th, 2009 at 12:39 am
gb7-
when i was a kid stealing apples with from the farmer across the way he’d shoot rock salt at us .
i never got hit , but some of my friends did.
thus my healthy respect for shotguns.
————————————————————
Very few things burn like rocksalt in your back pockets. Doesn’t do much for the jeans, either. Parents raising a bunch of kids on a limited budget are never happy about ruining a $5 pair of jeans over a couple of cucumbers and a handful of grapes.
blake
December 11th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
Lets go Yankees, stats + what you see with your eyes= evaluation of the player. Thats what my point is. You are much too confrontational.
———————-
I apologize if I came off as confrontational.Minimal sleep and law school finals make lets go yankees cranky
GB7,
I’m sorry the news wasn’t as good as you hoped, but best of luck with the surgery.
Take care.
Clare
December 12th, 2009 at 12:47 am
GB7,
I’m sorry the news wasn’t as good as you hoped, but best of luck with the surgery.
Take care.
————————————————————
Thank you for the kind words, Clare. As long as I’m there for the opening of ST and Opening Day. It could have been worse, so, this is no big deal. I’ve seen guys with worse than this, so, I’m lucky.
Where you at school blake?
GB –
I must have missed the convo previously – didn’t realize you were dealing with medical surgery stuff.
The next time you meet with the doc – get a serious look on your face, stare at your hands and ask him if you’ll be able to type well after surgery.
When he says with certainty that you will – say that’s excellent because you’ve never been able to type well before.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery bud…
DT – OPPC member
December 12th, 2009 at 1:02 am
GB –
I must have missed the convo previously – didn’t realize you were dealing with medical surgery stuff.
The next time you meet with the doc – get a serious look on your face, stare at your hands and ask him if you’ll be able to type well after surgery.
When he says with certainty that you will – say that’s excellent because you’ve never been able to type well before.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery bud…
————————————————————
Jesus, DT. This guy is good, but, he’s not a miracle worker. Unless he he can transplant Mavis Beacon’s fingers on my hands and a Webster’s Dictionary into my head, you guys are just gonna have to deal with it.
Don’t know you besides reading your comments…but nonetheless – I wish you the absolute best !!!
Hope you go 4-4 with 3 RBI’s (then get ‘pied’ by a nurse that looks like Barbara Eden from her ‘good days’ on TV !!!)
My typing sucks even more !!!
Good Luck & Keep Smilin’ !!!
To GreenBeret7 :
(see – my typimg sucks !!!)
typing
Barbara Eden is a classic….even still. One of the two most beautiful women on TV. Melody Patterson (Wrangler Jane – F-Troop) and Laurie Saunders (Bobbi-Jo – Petticoat Junction) were close.
Thanks for the kind thoughts, Upstate. Much appreciated.
all will be good – all will be good !!!
Barbara Feldon (Agent 99) would also be a decent substitute ‘pie girl’ !!!
PS: Bring Coppertone to Spring Training !
Gotta go to work in the AM – so I gotta say G’nite….
With really good feelings for your recovery,
UpState
GB: I hardly ever post, but read most posts later in the evening. You, Randy, PatM, CB, SJ44 and more wise and eloquent lady Yankee fans than I ever thought existed….all seem a bit like family. Good luck on the health front. You will continue to be in a lot of people’s hearts and prayers who also read this blog. Remember that we need your advice and… ahem….. crankiness….. to carry us through the winter and the coming Yankee dynasty seasons.
Er….. can you use the blunderbus on some of the trolls and knuckleheads?
Even if the Yankees project Montero to be anything other than a catcher I still wouldn’t include him in a trade for Halladay – not with Lackey on the market.
“Even if the Yankees project Montero to be anything other than a catcher I still wouldn’t include him in a trade for Halladay – not with Lackey on the market.”
Especially if theres a chance Halladay won’t sign an extension with the club that trades for him.
Personally, and I’m sure I’m in the minority on this one, but if it came down to the Yankees or Red Sox signing Halladay, I want it to be the Red Sox. Let them dump the farm on an older pitcher. It would severely reduce their farm system.
The Yankees need a LF and another arm for the rotation. Lackey would be great, but not for 5 years. We’ll see where his market goes.
Wang would get a minimum of $ 4 Million if the Yanks hold on to him and without knowing his medicals, that seems like too much of a risk. Then again, I’d guarantee Wang $ 4 Million before guaranteeing Rich Harden $ 7.5…. what the heck were those guys thinking?
GB — All the best, sir. May I add Linda Evans in her prime to your wish list? Talk about re-defining the Big Valley!
“I apologize if I came off as confrontational.Minimal sleep and law school finals make lets go yankees cranky”
You’re in heaven compared to what you will feel when it’s time to study for the bar…
“if that happened trisha would have a stroke or at least a real big hissy fit”
Probably a strong opinion on it for sure! I don’t have strokes Randy, I give them. You of all people can attest to that! And I leave the real big hissy fits to men who own stores on the Cape! Hope business is good Randy. Seriously. It can’t be easy to own a gift store on the Cape in this economy. Maybe the Christmas season helps out.
Actually I may be a day late and a dollar short on this but I read this on the Yankee website: “Outfielder Melky Cabrera and pitchers Chad Gaudin and Sergio Mitre are the other non-tender candidates, all of whom should be retained. Cabrera is currently the Yankees’ starting left fielder and Cashman has spoken about Gaudin and Mitre as candidates for the back end of the rotation.”
If it plays out that way, I just have more and more gifts under my tree!
And happy hanukkah to those who celebrate hanukkah!
Be well, all.
GB, I am once again wishing you the best. I have not kept up with the forum in the off season, and the two drive bys I’ve done have both found you in less-than-perfect health.
My Christmas wish is that everything goes well for you. I will be backing that up with prayer.
GB7:
Play to your strength; give ‘em hell. We’ll be keeping you in our thoughts and prayers.
On the TV actress front, I’d like to recommend Victoria Principal. It was a long time ago, but she made TV worth watching.
Be Well.
If you had to trade Montero, or Joba, or Hughes, you do it for someone in their 20s.
GreenBeret7
Best wishes for a full recovery.
GB7I just neve understood Wrangler Jane and Captain Parmalee together on F Troop. But, I never was a Ken Berry fan. I used to think Goldie Hawn was cute. How time flies.
Like the rest of the board, I wish you a successful surgery and a speedy recovery.
If the yankees opt against dealing for halladay then I’m fine with that. I trust cashman to make the right decision. If not though I’d go with sheets over lackey. Sheets won’t be cheap but I’m pretty certain he will be cheaper and for less years than Lackey and if he’s healthy I think he’s better than lackey.
Cashman stated on Francesa that he was given a set number for the payroll amount and that the payroll will be less than last year.
I’m sure that’s true, but I think he can go back to Hal and Hank and ask for more depending on the caliber of player. Furthermore, Cashman can be very cagey with his comments and inner thoughts.
I’m always a day late and a dollar short travelling on game weekends.
GB needs surgery? If so, all the best and a speedy recovery.
It’s good that you get it done now so you will be ready for ST.
All the best and my prayers are with you.
GB7. I haven’t conversed much with you in here but I’ve been reading your posts for some time. Hope you get well soon and have a very uneventful surgery.
GB7, more wishes here for a speedy recovery and return to good health!
Wang’s not coming back, almost certainly.
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ang-21168/
GB7/Randy-
Long time lurker. New poster.
Thanks for making me feel welcomed here. And as for the politeness. I guess you would have to blame the folks for that ! I am going to have to put an edge on and practice the skills which you guys so highly prize.
As a former observer seldom poster I have enjoyed your evaluations and opinions on the minor leagers (GB7). along with others like Bohdisattva. As for Randy’s opinions on things – well we have already discussed that ! Seriously though ( for a moment) it would seem that I value learning by doing (in sports) over pure observation. Wasn’t it Berra who said you could observe a lot just by watching or something like that. Love those Yogism’s. That puts guys like Randy and others who have actually played the game in a unique place on the board. The rest of us are merely the observers (remember Yogi), and some as budding statistical Einsteins.
Best of luck GB7 and may your surgeon’s handskills be a lot steadier and true than your typing ability, or lack therof. Speedy recovery.
trisha-
most really smart attorneys had no trouble with the bar.
just kidding.
i made that up for comic relief
actually my business has never been in better shape because this isn’t the first recession i’ve been through. i’ve had my own business since a few years before the yankees got swept by the reds in 1976 and then ran the table in ’77 and ’78. stagflation and jimmy carter were lot’s of fun. you couldn’t get a job at mc donalds.
the good thing about difficult times is that if you pay attention you learn how to handle them better the next time around.
that’s why you’ll notice a theme of valuing experience in players and management in my views about the yankees.
that reminds me.
i think cashman is making a really big mistake in giving cervelli the back up catcher job.
last year was too small of a sample, and with posada because of age likely to hit the disabled list a time or two that means a journeyman triple a catcher would be brought up who doesn’t know the staff.
i’d sign molina and put cervelli at triple a so when posada goes down the yankees have a catcher come up who knows the staff. cervelli stays more cost controlled the longer he stays in the minors too.
i’m also not convinced that cervelli is that good with that small sample in the majors last year.
if cashman signs molina, with cervelli in reserve the yankees would be stronger.
cashman will learn as he gets more experience
All the best to you GB-7 in getting back on top of your game.
mtu-
want to clear up i was just a bullpen catcher. being a mlb player is a whole different animal.
and as some on the blog have pointed out, david cone will say one thing and al leiter will say another.
experience is huge , but it doesn’t always make someone right and it doesn’t always make those with the same experience agree.
there are some things that no one can predict and smart fans can nail some things as well as sabermetricians or the most experienced mlb player.
that’s what makes the blog an excellent clearing house for ideas.
anyway. welcome to the blog.