The state of the Yankees rotation depth
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 13, 2009 
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In the past week, the Yankees have traded Ian Kennedy, non-tendered Chien-Ming Wang and seen Josh Towers sign a minor league deal with the Dodgers.
In the past year, the Yankees have traded Chase Wright, Jason Jones and Eric Hacker; lost considerable development time because of injuries to Alan Horne, Chris Garcia and George Kontos; lost Dan Giese on waivers; and seen Humberto Sanchez achieve his worst-case scenario instead of his lofty potential.
In the past two years, the Yankees have sold Darrell Rasner to a team in Japan; traded Jeff Karstens, Ross Ohlendorf, Dan McCutchen, Tyler Clippard and Jeff Marquez; non-tendered Matt DeSalvo; and seen Steven White more or less disappear after a breakout 2007.
That’s a list of 19 names. Very few are marquee starters, but all of have served as rotation depth for the Yankees. Eleven pitched for New York at some point, two made their major league debut after leaving the Yankees and two more are currently on a 40-man roster. Rotation depth is rarely flashy, but it matters.
Let’s assume for now that CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Andy Pettitte, Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes are the Yankees current top five starters. What does the depth look like as of right now?
Alfredo Aceves: If he never pitches another game at Yankees Stadium, Aceves has already been a terrific find out of the Mexican League. He pitched well out of the bullpen in 2009, made some strong starts at the end of 2008, and Brian Cashman has said he’ll go into spring training once again working as a starter. That could change, but he might be the sixth starter right now.
Chad Gaudin: Another who can play different roles. He proved to be a valuable mid-season pickup and the Yankees have offered him a contract for 2010. He’ll go to arbitration, then go to spring training as another in that long list of potential starters who could move into the bullpen.
Sergio Mitre: The Yankees took a shot on Mitre last winter, signing him to a minor league deal even though he was coming off Tommy John surgery. The fact he had to serve a suspension at the beginning of the season hardly mattered (from a baseball point of view) because he wasn’t going to be ready to pitch in a game anyway. As he gets farther removed from the surgery — he’ll hit the two-year mark mid-season — Mitre should get stronger and better.
Ivan Nova: One of the latest 40-man additions, Nova was taken in last year’s Rule 5 but was ultimately returned and pitched his way to Triple-A and was outstanding in the playoffs. Nova had 15 groundouts in one regular season game, then had 15 groundouts again in a playoff start.
Romulo Sanchez: With his overwhelming fastball — sits in the mid-90s, touches 97 — Sanchez could move back to the bullpen, but he came into his own this season as a Triple-A starter and the Yankees added him to the 40-man this winter. He also has a terrific changeup and a solid slider.
Zach McAllister: The top upper-level starting pitching prospect was one of the best pitcher in the Double-A Eastern League and was called up to Triple-A for the playoffs, where he made his Scranton/Wilkes-Barre debut in a clinching victory in the first round.
Jason Hirsh: Once a huge pitching prospect in the Astros organization, Hirsh ran into injury problems and hasn’t been nearly the same since. With Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, though, he pitched well at the end of last season, and he could be a wild card to play a big league role next season. Before the injuries, Hirsh was his league’s Pitcher of the Year in back-to-back seasons, first in the Double-A Texas League and then in the impossible-to-pitch-in Pacific Coast League.
Kei Igawa: I know, I know. Have to mention him though. Igawa has had his chances in the Major Leagues, there’s no doubt. And it seems likely that the Yankees would have to be overwhelmed before bringing him back to New York. But Igawa has pitched well in Triple-A.
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By mid-season, you might be able to add Alan Horne, Chris Garcia and George Kontos to the list, but they first need to answer questions about their ability to stay healthy. Wilkin De La Rosa and Hector Noesi have spots on the 40-man, but they don’t seem especially close to New York (and I still wonder if the lefty De La Rosa will move to the bullpen). Andrew Brackman and Jeremy Bleich are high draft picks, but last year’s results don’t suggest a quick move to the big leagues.
Plus Lackey
Plus Sheets instead of Lackey.
River Ave Blues is reporting that the Yankees offered Wang a split contract which would ensure him that he would be on the active roster after he got healthy.
Wang turned it down…it sounds like he has his mind made up to go elsewhere.
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/…..fer-21235/
I think you’ll see Mitchell and Phelps move up fast into the picture. Pendleton might be a spot starter but, most likely a long relief pitcher.Banuelos is a couple of years off. I’m hoping he’ll grow a couple of inches and put on about 25 pounds. I’ve got grandkids that look older.
I think the Yanks could use a little more depth, but I’m not crying over losing Josh Towers. Losing Kennedy hurts in that regard, but hey – when you are getting back a player like Granderson, you can’t expect to not feel a little pain.
I’m quite down on Aceves. He was not good in the 2nd half and in the playoffs….I don’t know if he physically can’t handle relief work or the league just caught up with him.
I like Gaudin – he’s limited, of course, but he’s a good guy to have around.
I know nothing about Nova or Sanchez, but they (along with McAllister) sound intriguing. Still……if Sanchez is so promising, why would the Pirates dump him? There’s got to be something going on with him.
Hirsch seems somewhat intriguing, but again, he’s a complete unknown.
The Yankees have to stop drafting these guys who are so injury prone – how many TJ surgeries can one team suffer in their minor league system?
That is not substantial list – Cash really needs to restock the pitching again because I doubt these guys are going to be able to help the team this year.
GB-
What about Warren ? He might be a fast mover, and the reports I have heard on him were very positive.
Great post Chad. Very exicited about the Yanks minor league pitching. it’s loaded.
Hirsh could be a nice insurance policy. He’s proved to be healthy after getting to Scranton. It’s also helpful that with almost 7 pro seasons, he’s still only 28. And at 6 feet, 8 inches and 250 pounds, he’ll make a great small forward on the Yankee basketball team.
Halladay in, everyone else out.
Betsy, you’re the only one on the planet down with Aceves.
He’s a pitcher who knows how to pitch. The sample size that you’re looking at is too small in my opinion. Besides that, the guy’s been a starter his whole professional career (which is quite long), so I wouldn’t judge him to harshly for what he did as a reliever.
Nice review, Chad. Very nice. I guess you’re drawing on your knowledge of the minor league system. It adds a lot to the blog. Thanks.
Betsy – I don’t the injury bug just hits Yankee pitchers. Josh Johnson, who so many have been clamoring for, had TJ surgery done a couple of years ago. I guess years ago, pitchers just rubbed some dirt on their elbows and became mediocre. Before the expansion era, there were fewer teams, hence a lesser need for pitching talent, and these guys just faded away to be replaced by other up and comers – until they blew out their arms. Kind of dog eat dog, but that’s a lot like life in general.
Besty:
You can read a profile of Romulo Sanchez here: http://mvn.com/pendingpinstrip.....nchez-rhp/
MTU, Warren’s a ways off. He’s only had a half a season of rookie ball. Other than a couple of college games, I haven’t seen him pitch. Haven’t seen Vizcaino at all. I’ll get them in 2010.
Ace pitched all of 4.1 innings in the playoffs.
GB-
Great. I’ll be looking forward to your impressions. Since I will not be able to see any of these guys hearing from people who actually get to see them play is a treat. And by the way, best of luck with your recovery.
Phelps, Mitchell and Warren could all move fast. Also, Bleich could surprise. If he can get more consistent, he’ll move fast, too.
I’ll miss Kennedy. Aceves will be fine. He’s a starter and would do weill in long relief, and frankly he’s better than Gaudin. Speaking of better than Gaudin, I was hoping that Padre Kevin Correia would be non-tendered and maybe considered by the Yanks.
Humberto Sanchez, once touted as the #2 pitcher in the minors has fallen very far. Shame, as he’s a Bronx kid.
I know June is far off; however, the Charleston River Dogs are playing 4 games in Lakewood, NJ, June 20-23.
How’s about a ‘blog outing’ to Lakewood?
MTU
December 13th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
GB-
Great. I’ll be looking forward to your impressions. Since I will not be able to see any of these guys hearing from people who actually get to see them play is a treat. And by the way, best of luck with your recovery.
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A lot of these young players you can find on Youtube.com. There’s a lot on Montero, including interviews. He speaks English pretty well.
Phil,
Have you seen Warren pitch ?
GB-
I meant live not on video. For me there is a difference but thank you for the suggestion. Also, I enjoy YOUR impressions.
One thing you guys have to remember about Mitre. Let’s say he has a 2010 contract for 1M. If he performs well the Yankees can either keep on the 25 man roster or they can trade him for some farm hands. Furthermore, let’s say he still pitches terribly this spring training then the Yankees can cut him before Opening Day and he only gets a certain percentage of his 1M 2010 contract. I thought it was about 30-40%, but it might be as little as 20%. I’m sure one of us can find out the exact percentage.
Nice review, Chad.
Do Gaudin and/or Mitre have any option years left? I don’t see both of them making the Yanks 25-man roster, but it would be nice to have one of them waiting in the wings at SWB.
Has Ace (or anyone else) discssed Ace’s numbers down the stretch? It appeared as though he got tired and his pitches werent as sharp. Did Ace/Cash/Eiland/Girardi mention this anywhere?
Bleich, if I had to make a guess will end up having elbow surgery within the next year. I’m somewhat surprised it hasn’t happened sooner. He had some issues in his last year of college.
Craw-
I am not a particular fan of Mitre. I remember him from the Cubs in his pre-injury days. He was nothing special if memory serves, and he was 100% then.
GB-
I too am surprised that Bleich hasn’t an elbow reconfiguration yet. It was widely reported that he might need one.
Jason Hirsh: Once a huge pitching prospect
Chad: Thanks for your input. You meant to use “huge” literally when referring to Hirsh, right??? LOL
Olney says Yanks interested in Brian Giles-What?? Isn’t that what we have the newly hired Kevin Towers for-to advise on what ex Padres are worth pursuing?
GB-7-
Just found out yesterday afternoon on the blog about your upoming surgery. Best wishes for a speedy recovery, good health and no loss of your dim,uh quick wit and for that matter your atrocious spelling!!!
Mentioned Jonny Gomes yesterday as possibly a good pickup, made $600,000 and was immediately told that he was a “punk”
Looked him up on line and found out he had a heart attack X-mas eve in 2002 at age 22. Maybe he’s not so bad after all!!
I’m not worried about Ace. I’m more concerned about Mitre, though I don’t think he makes the 25 anyway.
Right now, 12/13, the bullpen looks like:
Rivera, Robertson, Marte, Aceves, Gaudin, and possibly Melancon and Dunn.
Probably a good place to start, but not to end the season. I see the possibility of a veteran lefty added, as well as another right-handed power arm to solidify the bridge to Mo. Would love to see Gonzalez and Street in our pen, but that’s much too pricey for bullpen arms…unless you trade Marte and Gaudin…
Here’s the rule on cutting a player with a MLB contract before Opening Day. This is from Cot’s Baseball Contracts
“March 31, 2010
Last day (by 2 p.m. EST) to request unconditional release waivers on a player without having to pay his full 2010 salary. (Only 45 days’ termination pay is due.) CBA, Article IX (B).”
Here’s another portion of the waiving of players with contracts.
“March 17, 2010
Last day (by 2 p.m. EST) to place a player on unconditional release waivers and pay only 30 days’ termination pay. CBA, Article IX (B). (For split contracts, the Major League rate of termination pay is owed if Unconditional Release waivers are requested after 2 p.m. EST. However, the requirement for split contract termination pay does not apply for players who may not be assigned to the minor leagues without their consent and for players selected in the preceding Rule 5 draft.”
Yankee Trader
December 13th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Jason Hirsh: Once a huge pitching prospect
Chad: Thanks for your input. You meant to use “huge” literally when referring to Hirsh, right??? LOL
Olney says Yanks interested in Brian Giles-What?? Isn’t that what we have the newly hired Kevin Towers for-to advise on what ex Padres are worth pursuing?
GB-7-
Just found out yesterday afternoon on the blog about your upoming surgery. Best wishes for a speedy recovery, good health and no loss of your dim,uh quick wit and for that matter your atrocious spelling!!!
Mentioned Jonny Gomes yesterday as possibly a good pickup, made $600,000 and was immediately told that he was a “punk”
Looked him up on line and found out he had a heart attack X-mas eve in 2002 at age 22. Maybe he’s not so bad after all!!
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Thanks for your thoughts, Trader. Had surgery yesterday morning and other than needing some pizza a beer or 5 and a couple of cigarettes, I’m doing pretty well. Just a little sore, right now.
My spelling is getting better. I’m now up to a 33% correction rate. That means that there is hope for you, too.
I’m with you. If Damon, Matsui and Derosa don’t sign, a combo of Miranda and Gomes wouldn’t be the worst thing to happen. Both for $1.3 mil would be pretty cheap.
GB7-
Are you blogging from the hospital?
MTU
I have seen Warren pitch.
I think the thing that has really been holding Igawa back from stardom has been the lack of a cool nickname. I think I solved the problem. “FLUSH” (as in 42M down the drain) Igawa is now ready for prime time!
How bout Capps. Had a down year but he will bounce back.Should be cheaper and would not cost us a pick.Deff worth the gamble.
Trader-
I was the one who called Gomes a thug. I got that impression of him when he was playing for the Rays. If i remember correctly he was in the middle of a bench clearing brawl with the Yanks and to put it bluntly did not even come close to fighting fair. He is a great streefighter though and if the person(s) he got into it with are still on the Yanks I am not sure he’ll make it out of the lockeroom. I always thought that ballplayers might have long memories for those sorts of incidents. And by the way, I think the Yanks may owe the Rays something from the end of the season last year (Think Tex).
Hey Jeff. I think they’re both out of options, but I’m not positive.
Also, I’ll start a post about it at some point, but for now check out George King’s latest on Johnny Damon, who says he hasn’t talked to the Yankees about anything. Hasn’t talked money, hasn’t talked years. Nothing. Obviously there are some early talks going on, but no offers to Damon and no demands from Damon.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....ccMQINL8eP
Phil-
And ? The suspense is killing me.
Well Chad then i guess they will have to rely on ESP to get it done then, huh ?
Michael Kay’s on YES calling the NJ Nets game.
It’s kind of weird to me hearing him talk about the Nets and basketball.
MTU,
I saw him at UNC and saw him for SI. In the UNC game I saw, his jackass coach had him throw 130+ pitches. He topped out at 94 that day, and his other pitches were pretty good. Two and half months later, he was hitting 96 at SI and his secondary stuff was even better.
GB7 – Best of luck post-op. Though, from what I’ve seen of Florida pizza (you’re in Tampa VA, right?), you might be better off without. Nothing like NY pizza, in my very humble opinion.
Get better soon. We need you to be ready for ST.
Hey GB-Just want to wish you well.
Phil-
That’s the kind of thing I had heard. I believe he also is fairly polished and has good control. Someone described him as sort a “sleeper” I think but he might be a fast mover instead. Thanks.
Former blog master casting blame for Wang’s injury at the feet of the EE.
“The Yankees would not allow him to run as part of his conditioning. The strength in his legs, which helped him throw a 95-mph sinker, vanished and the shoulder injury was the result of compensating.”
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....ll#addComm
Hey GB, I’ve been remiss here running my mouth. Wish you a speedy post-op recovery. Have learned much from you.
Yankee Trader
December 13th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
GB7-
Are you blogging from the hospital?
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Yeah, I’m tapping into an open network. I feel so ashamed.
Tom in NJ -
I’m in for a blog outing to Lakewood. Central NJ will represent!!!
GB, You need to lose the butts..I know how hard it is to move on…..I still will have a few when I’m out slinging down brewskies…..I was amazed that you had that many jumps, and still no knee of hip issues….I always thought thoose issues came with the territory later in life……You hang tough & I just know you will…..Remember we have that golf outing with Randy I & SJ….The plan is to get tossed out of SJ’s swanky C.C…..
Both Phelps and Warren got taken for granted in their draft years, but after they got away from the abuse college coaches put them through, they had better stuff and good pitchability.
Joe from Long Island
December 13th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
GB7 – Best of luck post-op. Though, from what I’ve seen of Florida pizza (you’re in Tampa VA, right?), you might be better off without. Nothing like NY pizza, in my very humble opinion.
Get better soon. We need you to be ready for ST.
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Right now, anything would taste better than this gruel that they serve. I’m hoping to get out of here in a few days.
On ESPN’s website it says there are 266 FA on the market. While that number is huge, it also includes a lot of players who are nothing much to speak of. Still, that is a lot of options for clubs to sift through.
I am bummed a bit about Wang being let go, even though it was pretty much the most logical move to make. Wang has had a lot of injuries. Shoulder twice, hamstring issues a few times, his lisFrank injury. While some of the injuries were not major, they do bring up concerns.
This is not a good time to go to FA, though he will get some kind of deal. It’s possible that the Yankees can sign him back, but the agent does need to check out what offers he can get for his client.
I think Nero was sounding a bit miffed, but he lost a lot of money with Wang being non-tendered. I am sure there is some feelings that were hurt by this, how do you not feel hurt being let go? Even if there is reason to do so, it hurts your pride.
The latest Damon information just goes to show that many of the rumors that are out there can’t be believed. There were a lot of reports about the 2 year offer for Damon, yet now we are being told that nothing has been discussed. It could be Boras using that as means of generating a starting point while he still keeps on with his rhetoric about longer contracts.
This off season things will probably go slowly with some of the bigger names and better talent, then once one signs the others will fall in and it will go much faster.
Thanks for the kind words and thoughts, guys. It’s most appreciated.
GreenBeret7, speedy recovery. I’m surprised you aren’t enjoying the gourmet food you are getting.
RhapsodyInBlue
December 13th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
Former blog master casting blame for Wang’s injury at the feet of the EE.
“The Yankees would not allow him to run as part of his conditioning. The strength in his legs, which helped him throw a 95-mph sinker, vanished and the shoulder injury was the result of compensating.”
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That is interesting that someone with an M.D. ended up as a sports writer…
Rhapsodyin Blue……..I wish Randy I, was here to read that piece by Pete….Last April / May several of us had a all night posts about that very same issue…..Pete mostly dismissed the very same point then that he now writes as the cause of Wang’s injury……As I posted last night after reading that he was cut loose, the problems were evident last spring…..He had no leg strength ( low leg kick ), Randy was all over the fact that his arm slot was completely different……His legs, back & core were weak……Pete now has taken up this as the reason….Randy asked Pete to check with Eiland to confirm what we believed to be the source of Wang’s problems…..This was before he blew out the shoulder……
mmmmmmm…gruel.
What flavor ?
After you get out and start driving head on over to Wal-mart – they sell the salmon-flavored gruel in 5 gallon pails……very good bargain !!!
mmmmmmmmmmmmm…gruel
M, what does that mean? I don’t care if I’m the only one down on Aceves – I don’t base my opinions on what others think. His poor performance in the 2nd half concerns me…..
Pat M.
December 13th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
GB, You need to lose the butts..I know how hard it is to move on…..I still will have a few when I’m out slinging down brewskies…..I was amazed that you had that many jumps, and still no knee of hip issues….I always thought thoose issues came with the territory later in life……You hang tough & I just know you will…..Remember we have that golf outing with Randy I & SJ….The plan is to get tossed out of SJ’s swanky C.C…..
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Yeah, I need to cut back on the smokes a little. Yeah, I’ve seen guys end up with broken backs, ankles, legs and a couple of necks while jumping with 125 pound packs. I just got lucky I suppose. Over 1,000 jumps and the worst thing that ever happened was on my first jump. I got out alright, but, when the chute opened, the wind got under my helmet and the chinstrap split my face open under my mouth and laid it wide open. I didn’t realize it until I was on the ground.
My face felt like it was frozen and then the jump master mentioned that I needed to get my face sewn up. I thought he was talking about my laughing because of the jump. That’s when my face started to thaw out and the pain hit.
Why exactly would the Yankees be interested in Brian Giles? (as Olney is reporting)
M, he’s very likely going to be a reliever…….I hope I didn’t sound too harsh, but it’s true – it doesn’t bother me if I’m the only one who feels a certain way.
Once Brian Cashman was given more authority as GM and made the farm system a priority, the grand scheme of things was to use some prospects when necessary in transactions to improve the personnel in the Bronx.
As Chad has indicated, this has happened and will continue to do so. Kennedy, Coke, and A-Jax will be replaced at some point within the system and sooner rather than later.
The pitchers are a little ahead of position players in the system but that will even out with good instruction and development.
gb you old bastard, best of luck. brain surgery and a heart stoppage didnt kill me,a nd you’re tougher guy than i ever thought of being! keep the faith!
Kevin Towers hasn’t officially be hired yet……..Brian Giles the girlfriend beater? Why Cash even looked at him is beyond me……..
Brad, thanks!
GB – I didn’t know you’re having surgery…….we’ll be thinking of you!
Isn’t Gomes the ex-Ray OF who helped instigate the ST fight between the Rays and Yanks in 2008?
One, i dont think I am very comfortable with both hughes and joba in the rotation for numerous reasons most importantly of which is that it weakens the pen and significantly limits the depth for the starting rotation which is obviously thin as seen in this post. Two, I dont think cashman could possibly be comfortably going into the season relying on both of those guys to fulfill rotation spots for a full season. Hughes was in the pen most of last year and couldnt pitch a full season as a starter even if he wanted to and that doesnt even take into account the playoffs. Hughes 86 innings in the majors last year means he will likely top out at no more than 150 innings next year.
Thus, we would be relying on both him and aceves to fill the last rotation spot. Joba pitched 157 innings last year and could likely pitch 200 next year but he would likely be far more formidable for us out of the pen. Joba was 8-2 on Aug 6th and then, fell all the way to 9-6 to close out the year. We watched his era grow from 3.58 starting august to 4.75 to close out the year. So he obviously experiences significant decline towards the end after a year full of switching back and forth between rotation and relief innings.
I think there are three options for us right now – we can stay as we are now and pray for the best which i think is a big mistake. We can re-sign wang or some other pitcher with a lot of potential and very little cost like sheets and hope they have a rebound year which will provide us with some much needed depth. Or we can go after lackey. Lackey is an all-star showing superior talent in the much more difficult American League. He has had his fair share of injuries but is only 31 years old. He will command significant money and years but not prohibitively so. Getting rid of matsui’s contract could cover most of what we give lackey and not re-signing damon or giving him less than last year would likely equal whatever lackey commands. I think we should try to sign damon and go hard after lackey. He would fill out a very formidable rotation with great depth. Of course, we could always try to trade for Halladay but we would likely have to give even more money to him and give away our best prospects including montero which would be a mistake.
GB7 =
So glad to see you’re “up and about” so to speak. I didn’t know for how long you’d be out of commission.
The stuff with Wang and conditioning – what I recall is that the Lysfranc fracture is not a common baseball injury the they were being very conservative in the rehabilitation. It did all seemingly go awry, but I believe the intent was not to ruin Wang’s career. What I think was bungled by the Yankees was from spring training on – not catching that he was not in his best shape; cutting his re-hab short when Joba got hit by the comebacker.
I have no idea whether other teams will take a chance on Wang. The last memories most have of him are of him getting hammered by the opposition. And then there’s two shoulder surgeries.
I am hopeful that when all is said and done, his best offer will be from the Yankees for a minor league contract with incentives. I hope he is able to at least approximate his most effective self, but really, when looked at with a cool eye, the odds are slim that he’ll be the Wang we knew and loved pitching wise. But, determination factors for a lot, and I believe Wang has a great deal of determination.
So, whether it is with the Yankees or another team, I wish Wang well. As I said last night, this the part of baseball that I hate. (Understand it, but hate it nonetheless.) I imagine that it’s not wonderful for most GMs in the game, as well.
# Betsy – high on pie December 13th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Isn’t Gomes the ex-Ray OF who helped instigate the ST fight between the Rays and Yanks in 2008?
Shelly spiked Aki which lead to Gomes charging Shelly. Funny how all three are not with the same teams anymore.
Thanks, Ham. I’m not tough….just lucky. I’ve had a lot of fun in the last 45 years. As soon as I get around, I’m going to jump again. I miss that.
Neil, exactly – not all prospects are created equal. There’s simply not room for all of them on a team, so those that are considered expendable will be used as chips to shore up the big club – nothing wrong with it.
shelley was the instigator, he went spikes high into aki as payback for elliot johnson breaking cervelli’s wrist when he crashed into franco at the plate in an early ST game.
pat m-
just read pete’s post on wang’s non tender.
that was an excellent night discussing wang’s arm slot.
cb played a big part in it and he was right that the injury had changed the arm slot. you were right about the leg lift looking funny.
i was speculating that the changed arm slot was probably being taught by the yankees because why else would an arm slot go up? i knew the arm slot was off, but didn’t know why.
i can’t remember pete’s response on the issue at that time.
i will say pete knows a lot more about wang than he lets on.
we talked quite a bit in emails on the issue and i think he has a very good understanding of the yankees’ relationship with wang.
Betsy, I had the surgery yesterday morning. The bums took away my Marlboros.
Doreen, I feel pretty good…a little sore and coughing hurts like Hell, but, it’s managable. I slept all of yesterday and until about 11:30 this morning…slept some today. I’m trying to find somebody around here that smokes so they can tell me how good it tastes. Driving me crazy. Nothing to do with my hands and the nurses quit coming around.
Carl, oh that’s right. That happened after that bum crashed into Cervelli…..
Now that I hear they were willing to offer an extension and Alan Nero blew it, goodbye Wang.
Give me a break. They also tried a split contract as well.
If the guy wanted to be a Yankee, it was open for him.
He didn’t take it. Fine. Goodbye.
Vaya con dios.
I’m always leery of players that move around a lot and tend to see less and less playing time as the season moves along. Gomes is one of those who seems to be that way.
Gomes was the one that came running in from the outfield and went after Shelly from behind. Cheap shot.
Betsy-
I mentioned that earlier, and that is why i called him a thug. Not Yankee material.
Randy I, What I do remember was that was one of the best baseball nights we ever had here…And of CB joined in as well….That being said, you’re the one who spotted it during his first shelling……Pete was on board with us initially and seemed a bit condesending about our rants…..
would toronto take all of them for halladay? at least you prospects huggers can keep joba, hughes and montero
PittsburgYankeeFan, you can’t really fault the agent and Wang for not going for the offer that the Yankees made to him. They have no idea of what the offers will be from other clubs. This non-tendering put him in the FA market, so it wouldn’t be the most prudent move to agree to the first deal he gets.
With this case I think its even more important that he squeeze every dollar out of an offer he can get. While it sounds like he can mount a comeback it isn’t guaranteed, and he has to look out for his best interests.
Nero is posturing a bit, but that doesn’t mean the Yankees and Wang are done. They might be, but till he signs elsewhere he can come back to the pinstripes.
Just like Cashman non-tendering him was the business side of baseball, so it is with Wang checking out what he offers he can get.
GB, I’m glad you’re feeling well enough to blog here!
Quit smoking – it’s the best thing you can do.
Pittsburgh Yankee Fan -
I haven’t been on most of the day -
What is this about an extension being offered to Wang, among other alternatives????
Hey GB.
I know how much you love hearing from Sox fans on here!
But seriously, I am sending positive wishes for you to recover quickly from your surgery.
Doreen,
Yankees did offer Wang a minor-league contract with the promise that it would become a major-league deal once he proved his shoulder was sound.
However, Wang’s agent, Alan Nero, insisted on guaranteed money. When the Yankees told him they were not prepared to do that for a pitcher who is likely to be rehabbing into at least May, Nero informed them Wang would be moving on.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....z0ZcRAGISA
I don’t care what Pete says because he’s shown himself to be less than a good journalist. I’ve never seen anyone with so little convictions in what he believes or who panders to his audience. I only know from what people post here, but the fact that he says things here to Yankee fans, then says the opposite to Sox fans is pathetic.
Pat-
You may not believe this but that was one of the best nights here for me as well. I still remember it with all the back and forth, and I learned more that night than from any single night on this blog. Three extremely knowledgeable baseball guys really attacking an issue in a unique way. A way in which I could only be an admiring observer.I never met the three of you in real life but I feel like I got inside the heads of some pretty good baseball minds that night. I appreciate the opportunity to this day. And yes, I am serious.
Correction….Pete was not on board with our beliefs on Wang….He sort of brushed us off….
Betsy – high on pie
December 13th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
I doubt the Yankes will be kicking themselves.They do not believe Wang will be all that effective THIS year. They aren’t going to pay him $4 million to be mediocre/unhealthy. They will get another pitcher now or later…..By next year, we will have more of an idea of Joba and Phil…and they can still get another pitcher. The idea that the Yankees are going to collapse because they don’t have Wang is ridiculous.
Betsy I’m disappointed in you. Wang was something special. As Pete A. says over on Boston.Com:
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....tra_bases/
Wang’s troubles last year seem to be a result of the Yankees mismanaging his off season conditioning program. If indeed he couldn’t run all winter then he likely should have been left behind in extended spring training. Unlike Joba or Hughes when he was brought up in 2005 Wang didn’t succumb to the pressure he just went out and won. Sure I’m being emotional. I’m hoping this guy can make it back and prove the Yankees wrong. He was well compensated the last two seasons, but he was also injured. Wang didn’t ask to be injured and it seems that his injury this year was a result of his injury last year. What would it cost the Yankees to show him some respect for what he has accomplished and offer him a ML contract. They didn’t seem to have problems doing that with other players like Gooden and Strawberry to name two. Sure this is a business but fans following the team do so because of emotions. If we were strictly business we’d switch loyalties when our team did poorly. Bottom line Cashman is wrong on this one.
Ray – nice to see you again. What’s the word in Beantown about the Sox? Do fans want Halladay? Are they upset at Bay or do they want Holliday?
GB7 -
My husband’s dad (God Rest his soul) quit cigarettes pretty much cold turkey in the early 70′s because he made a deal with my husband – if he cut his hair, his dad would quit smoking. (And if you saw a picture of my husband at the time, you’d laugh – his hair didn’t even touch his shoulder, but it drove my f-i-l nuts!). But whatever the motivation, my husband’s dad did quit.
My sister quit as soon as she found out she was pregnant, 26 years ago. (But then life got troublesome and she started up again about 6 years ago.)
It took my mom 3 tries to quit. My stepdad was 4-pack-a-day guy, but once he decided to quit, it took a day. He’s now 80, in decent health, despite a scare with his lungs a couple of years ago. My mom’s a real nudge so they caught a “thing” in his lung so small that he needed a bit of surgery and nothing else and now just goes for twice yearly checkups at Sloan Kettering.
I wish you the best in your efforts. I think you’ve got the fortitude to get through this tough time.
Comet, I appreciate you posting the link, but I refuse to read anything that Pete has to say anymore for the reasons I posted above. I see no reason for him to have brought Phil and Joba into it………and apparently Wang is one of his very favorites, so I have to take what he says with a grain of salt. Given the crap he used to spew about Alex…….
I’m sorry you’re disappointed in me……..
ray (sox fan)
December 13th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
Hey GB.
I know how much you love hearing from Sox fans on here!
But seriously, I am sending positive wishes for you to recover quickly from your surgery.
————————————————————
Oh, my God. I’m being tortured by a Red Sox fan. I’m having a relapse.
Hey, Ray. Hope all is going well with you and the (sox fan) family. Just keep that mangy poodle, yaz away from me.
Thanks for the kind thoughts, Ray. It’s much appreciated.
Oh…by the way….2007. LMAO.
Doesn’t quite have the same ring as 1918, but, it’ll have to do for now.
Pete has no understanding of the luxury tax or the fact that there is a 40 man roster you cannot exceed in the offseason. We have 3 holes right now and we need at least 3 healthy players to fill them.
Hi Betsy. I don’t claim to know the exact pulse of Sox fans about players for next year but I will offer a couple thoughts.
I was listening to a Boston sports radio program the other day. They had Schilling on the show. Now I will admit that Schilling can be pretty obnoxious and has a big mouth.
That being said, I found what he said interesting. He said the Sox should do what it takes to get Halladay. I have heard that sentiment expressed by a number of people.
Not sure how folks are feeling about Jason Bay versus Holliday. It’s reported that Bay turned down a four year 60 million offer, but I think with Holliday having Boras as his agent that it would take considerable more than that for Holliday to even consider the Sox.
GB -
Hang in there. Not an easy thing to do but fight the Marlboros like it’s the 7th game of the World Series. With a little time it gets easier. I’ve been there and know the drill. You’ll get there ……
66 more days until pitchers and catchers have their 1st workout in Tampa.
Thank you for the words of encouragement, Doreen. It’s going to be a struggle, but, I’ll figure it out. I know that until I quit coughing, I won’t be smoking anything. Maybe that’ll get it started.
Dodgers sign…Scott Olsen.
One less spot for Wang?
MTU…….Yeah that was a great baseball night indeed…..Shame is the LoHud seems to have drifted away from that as there seems to be some much bickering now, & I’m guilty as well…Too much confrontational bs…..I’m flattered by your comments…..There’s so many good baseball people here, sadly the conversations get sidetracked…..Topics can be viewed from so many perspectives that we all can learn someting every night if we can just get passed the egos
Tom-
That was the Nationals.
Thanks, Neill. I appreciate the kind words. Can’t wait until ST. I can smell the hotdogs now…..taste the beer.
What? A Sox fan that admits that Schilling can be a big mouth? You’re a heretic, lol.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say I want the Yankees to do that (not close, actually), but I would kill for Halladay. I completely understand why people, especially ex-pitchers who understand how remarkable Halladay is, think the Sox ought to go for the kill. I really hope they don’t because, IMO, it would just completely turn the division over to the Sox. Am I being dramatic? Maybe, but your rotation would be ridiculous. As it stands, I really get the idea that A.A. has no intention of trading within the division…….his demands from the Yanks are pretty ludicrous.
Good point about Holliday……
opps you’re right, MTU. I need to get my eyes checked…
Pat-
you’re more than welcome. Would love to see CB posting more. For me, he is sort of the baseball Einstein of the board.
“Just keep that mangy poodle, yaz away from me.”
____________________________________________________
GB, I know my dog “yaz” scares you because he would put a major hurting on your bulldog “bucky ******* dent” !!
Betsy – high on pie
December 13th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Comet, I appreciate you posting the link, but I refuse to read anything that Pete has to say anymore for the reasons I posted above. I see no reason for him to have brought Phil and Joba into it………and apparently Wang is one of his very favorites, so I have to take what he says with a grain of salt. Given the crap he used to spew about Alex…….
I’m sorry you’re disappointed in me……
Hi Betsy:
Pete didn’t bring Joba and Hughes into it I did. And I advise you to make an exception and read Pete on this subject as others have posted Pete seems to know Wang well.
I’m disappointed because I believe compassion has a place in any business as does loyalty. Had the Yankees offered Wang a million guaranteed plus incentives and he’d turned them down then I’d be disappointed but would agree he’d had his chance to stay a Yankee. I just though you has a little more compassion. Sorry!
C
ray (sox fan)
December 13th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
“Just keep that mangy poodle, yaz away from me.”
____________________________________________________
GB, I know my dog “yaz” scares you because he would put a major hurting on your bulldog “bucky ******* dent” !!
————————————————————
Bucky would make yaz pee all over himself. Luckily, there’s no tall walls to give yaz flashbacks.
Thanks guys for the info on the offer the Yankees made to Wang. I sure wish they’d taken it. I guess I understand his desire to see what else he can get elsewhere.
I still maintain that the off-season between the injury and ST was new territory and they proceeded with caution. Apparently the advice they got was not correct. Okay.
Once ST began and Wang was pretty obviously not in his best shape, they should have proceeded differently and they should not have brought him north with them. But we will never know precisely what was discussed.
This offer by the Yankees sure seems to be in good faith to me – they wanted to keep him. Why should they guarantee ML money? They promised him an ML contract once he showed he was able to pitch. Sounds fair to me. Am I missing something?
Nothing can be done to undo the last 2 seasons. It does no good to lay blame. In addition, did Wang not report in to the Yankees during that off-season rehab? DId he have no responsibility in his own situation? Could he or did he not say he was able to do more? Did he try to see a doctor on his own?
I get that the Yankees screwed up at some point; and I love CMW, but at what point is he an adult here? All this discussion seems to give Wang a huge pass in this. And his agent, by the way. I think it is because of the language difference – we’ve rarely heard Wang speak. But we shouldn’t confuse an inability to speak English fluently with being able to be in charge of one’s own destiny.
PittsburghYankeeFan December 13th, 2009 at 7:25 pm wrote:
“Now that I hear they were willing to offer an extension and Alan Nero blew it, goodbye Wang.
Give me a break. They also tried a split contract as well.
If the guy wanted to be a Yankee, it was open for him.
He didn’t take it. Fine. Goodbye.
Vaya con dios.”
I agree. Although I’d blame the agent unless I knew he was taking direction from the client. I think there’s no point taking this personally so I might leave it open for as long as a spot is open but he’d have to come back to get it; no way I’d go looking for him. On a split contract they’d have to move someone off the 40 man if it’s full to bring him up if he turns out to have his 2 seam back. At the point the Yankees fill the 40th spot on the 40 I’d re-look at the situation and consider rescinding the offer if he hasn’t yet accepted it.
I’d hate not to get him back if he has something simply because his agent overplayed an early hand and I got annoyed. I would consider making Nero’s face appear on several rolls of office toilet paper tomorrow however.
Well, kids….I’m gonna take a nap. I’m really tired. Have a great night.
Is anybody else concerned about the fact that the rotation right now includes both Joba and Hughes? I don’t think the Yanks should expect to get full seasons of starts out of both of them, given their low innings totals last year (not to mention the fact that they are both still unproven as regular major-league starters). I think the Yanks need to add another proven starter. I like Sheets or Bedard, assuming the Yanks can’t get Halladay.
The Yanks have 3 spots on their 40. 3. They need a LF, maybe a DH, certainly a bench and they want to add another starter. Give Wang guaranteed money and it’s 2 spots we have to fit all that into. And there is not offseason DL to stash him on. The Yanks had no choice.
Comet, you don’t have any business judging how much compassion I have or don’t have……..
thin-skinned Pete is getting ripped to shreds over at his new digs (hey, at least it’s not quite a ghost town anymore).
he must be itching to hand out bans…
Noesi was lights out last year in low A and high A. 15 walks in 117 innings – that is Mariano low (118 Ks to boot).
He could move quickly.
some folks over here are as sensitive as Wanger it seems…
some folks over here are as sensitive as Wanger it seems…
why is pete getting ripped?
Doreen, I agree with you…..and I certainly believe the Yankees’ offer was made in good faith.
“Is anybody else concerned about the fact that the rotation right now includes both Joba and Hughes?”
Cashman keeps saying the priority is pitching. I don’t know why he would be saying that if he were planning on both Joba and Hughes being in the rotation.
thin-skinned Pete is getting ripped to shreds over at his new digs (hey, at least it’s not quite a ghost town anymore).
he must be itching to hand out bans…
- – - – - – - – - -
Boston fans are frustrated at the lack of movement by the front office with no improvement but the Boof Bonser’s of the world. That’s why the thin skinned one may be getting more replies. He’ll love how delusional they get.
Phil, I agree. And seeing that it appears that the Yanks and Damon’s reps haven’t even traded offers, I’d bet that Matsui is much more likely than Damon.
I’m not so sure about the need for a LF’er, as I’m ok with Melky, but would not be surprised to see a change by opening day. Hey’ where’s Chip (DeJesus, Winn, Church, etc…).
Question:
If the Yankees were to sign Chapman would that come out of a separate budget ? They would not offer him a ML contract would they ?
Well Eagles score first,shoot 3.5 min into the game! 7-0
DaSaint,
The Yanks would be giving away a position if they played Melky in left. That would just be fixing CF only to weaken a corner. I don’t them doing that.
“In addition, did Wang not report in to the Yankees during that off-season rehab?”
doreen-
he was told by the yankees to do nothing at all. this is sometimes the medical advice on a lisfranc fracture.
the problem was that wang started spring training without being tested for body strength or atrophy .
the way we know this is because it was a complete surprise to the yankees when arod’s hip coach in tampa when arod and wang were there on separate rehabs said wang’s hip might be the problem. it turned out he was right and wangs hip was at half strength.
the yankees messed up , but i agree wang does needs to stand up for himself.
which is exactly what he’s doing right now by checking out other options.
Jacobs (Giants)loses the ball, Eagles recover 14-0 sigh!!
Boy, Nice start to the game tonight for the Giants.
Donovan McNabb may be the player I most despise in all of sports, that is not on a Boston team.
He is such a clown, and loser. He was throwing up in a Super Bowl has lost 4 other NFC championship games.
The Giants are not even good for the entire regular season, win 4 straight games in the playoffs,, with a SB win over the best team in NFL History.
Donovan decides the next year, he is going to use the telephone on the Giants sidelines in a playoff game and taunt our crowd.
Does the guy realize that he will never win anything in this league?
At the time, I was angry at Rush Limbaugh for his racist remarks, but to be honest, McNabb is and was overrated.
To exaggerate the point of how overrated he is, I just dropped a McNabb in the toilet!
Wow. I can’t believe anyone would begrudge Wang for turning down that contract. Just as it was a business decision for the Yankees to non-tender and decline to offer a guaranteed contract, it was a business decision for Wang to explore the free agent market.
The kid was just “fired” and everyone expects him to say, “Yes! Yes! I’ll take that contract right after you let me go!” because they’re the Yankees? Don’t you think he has the right to feel hurt? Be sensitive? Let him cool off a bit before writing his future with the Yankees off.
Put yourself in Wang’s shoes before judging him.
randy l -
Don’t you think Wang’s agent should have said or done something at some point? I mean these guys get a lot of money if all they are expected to do is negotiate a contract.
I don’t begrudge Wang trying to find a better deal right now.
I also think so many things went screwy – like at every single turn of events the worst that could be expected did happen. the Yankees are not faultless, and I’ve agreed with that all along.
It just occurs to me that at some point someone in Wang’s camp needed to be more assertive – or maybe I don’t know how these things work.
I’m also getting a vibe that because Wang is quiet, at least as far as the fanbase is concerned, a lot of assumptions are made and it’s almost as if we’re looking at him as if he was a child of sorts.
I hope that things work out for Wang. I hope that means he’s successfully back with the Yankees. I know that’s not a certainty.
A sad chapter, though, no matter how you look at it.
m
December 13th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Wow. I can’t believe anyone would begrudge Wang for turning down that contract. Just as it was a business decision for the Yankees to non-tender and decline to offer a guaranteed contract, it was a business decision for Wang to explore the free agent market.
The kid was just “fired” and everyone expects him to say, “Yes! Yes! I’ll take that contract right after you let me go!” because they’re the Yankees? Don’t you think he has the right to feel hurt? Be sensitive? Let him cool off a bit before writing his future with the Yankees off.
Put yourself in Wang’s shoes before judging him.
Great post m:
That is what I mean by compassion.
I don’t begrudge Wang anything – he’s got the right to do what’s best for him. I’m just not upset with the Yankees…..
And it’s true. Wang performed better than Hughes and Joba did.
Ha! The Yankees would be so lucky if either Joba or Hughes won 55 of their first 104 starts.
Comet, again, I don’t need any lecture from you about compassion. You don’t know me, so you are extraordinarily presumptuous.
The thing people have to remember about Wang is that he got hurt before he ever had a big contract. He hasn’t even made 10 Million dollars for his career thus far. He has every right to try and do whats best for him to try and get paid IMO, he owes the Yankees nothing.
Phil
With only 3 spots on the 40 left.Were probaly gona have to trade some one. One spot for utility guy,one spot for LF/DH last spot for Starter or last spot for bullpen. Who do you think is first to get dropped off our Roster if we need to make room.I guess Hoffman stays for a bit.
Betsy,
You seem a little angry about something, but I wasn’t really talking about you.
A couple of people have written, “You turned it down. Fine! Goodbye!”
I don’t understand how people can expect Wang to react any differently or judge him for it.
I think people are also wrong to assume that he doesn’t want to come back.
You gotta think that the Yankees are near the top of his wishlist right? I mean, he has a home here. He has friends here. Those kinds of things aren’t insignificant to players like Hideki and Wang, I think. Having known and only played for one team in their American professional careers.
m -
As I said, I don’t begrudge it.
I am disappointed because I really didn’t expect the Yankees to even offer what they did at this point in time.
Wang had said he wanted to stay with the Yankees (I had read earlier).
I just also get weary of athletes saying such things (Damon, anyone?) but it’s always about the $$. As if the money they’re making is a pittance. i try not to focus on the actual salaries, etc., because they’re so stratospheric as to make them almost meaningless. However, Damon’s demands are so far out of whack for what he is as a player right now. Wang is coming off a second shoulder surgery and his future is questionable. Jason Bay, by all accounts is a fair fielder at best with some questions as to his future health, but wants at least 5 years. And there are others. It’s outlandish. It’s ridiculous. And I can’t dwell on it (and most times I do not) or it will have an influence on how I feel about the game. I’m already jaded as far as the entertainment industry goes.
And yes, I realize Wang does not have a stratospheric salary. He does make a lot more than the average Joe, though.
What kind of joke is this league. NFL
Penalty Penalty Penalty on the Giants
Unnecessary roughness, contacting a player already out of bounds on a punt return.
John Parry, probably grew up in New England, and has a score to settle. Too bad, Parry has to live with the nightmare of 18-1.
http://www.csnphilly.com/pages.....feedID=704
1. Phils general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. is obsessed with Halladay. People close to Amaro say he began plotting strategy to get Halladay as far back as the summer of 2008.
2. Halladay has a full no-trade clause, so he has the power to dictate where he goes. Though he would find any of the above teams acceptable, the Phillies – according to people with knowledge of his wishes – are his top choice. Phillies officials are well aware of where they rank on Halladay’s wish list. In fact, according to people close to the situation, there is a growing feeling in the Phils front office that Halladay is right in the team’s lap – if it can pull off the complicated deal.
** I wonder why the Phillies would top Doc’s wish list…..Imaging preferring the Phillies to the Yankees? Ick.
In any case, Amaro’s obsession with Doc will land him the big fell
Phil, I agree with what you said about improving CF being pointless if you lessen a corner spot. That said, if the Yankees were to sign Damon then which would you rather have a)Damon in LF and Miranda or somebody DH’ing or b) Melky in LF and Damon DH’ing.
The way I see it they are going to have a weak link somewhere whether it be DH or LF unless they spend some money and sign 2 players.
M, I’m not angry at you…….
And re: the article I just posted, AJax was NOT their top prospect.
I need to try harder to stay away from Halladay talk – it’s just annoying the heck out of me. If the Phillies are his top choice, then let him go there…….ick again
“Unnecessary roughness, contacting a player already out of bounds on a punt return.”
Legit call as seen on the replay. Guy on the Giants was playing the Philly player 5 yards out of bounds. Can’t blame the ref for the Giants’ player being stupid.
And I do feel bad for Wang. I’ve posted that here before. I’m just thinking around the situation in a different way at this point in time.
I can’t imagine what he’s gone through over the past 2 years. His entire livelihood, in a split second, gone, for all intents and purposes.
I want a happy ending for Wang.
My thoughts were really taking a path I didn’t originally intend. It happens sometimes.
M, to continue …….I don’t like being told that I have no compassion. You didn’t say that, someone else said that. I’m going to drop it because that poster is not worth aggravating myself over.
Betsy -
If the Phillies are that obsessed with Halladay, it makes the article (was it Rosenthal’s?) from the other day less bizarre (the trade scenario featuring Lee and Halladay) than it looks on its face.
“I wonder why the Phillies would top Doc’s wish list…..Imaging preferring the Phillies to the Yankees?”
Suppose one possibility could be that as he nears the back nine of his career, pitching on a strong NL team may allow him room to succeed even the face of routine regression that comes with age.
Cris Collinsworth just said 2 drops by Nicks were embarrasing.
I’d say what’s even more embarrassing is NBC having Cris as their head NFL commentator.
If I were a pitcher, I’d prefer the NL, too.
“Cris Collinsworth just said 2 drops by Nicks were embarrasing.”
He’s half right. 1st one was. 2nd one would have ben a tough catch. All ended up OK anyway.
Doreen,
I’m not talking about you, but there’s a certain segment of the fans that feel that guys like Wang and Pettitte “owe” the Yankees.
They felt Pettitte owed the Yankees because he sucked (aka fighting through a shoulder issue because we were still in the hunt and all we had was him and moose). They wanted to make him take a huge paycut for this because they felt he stole $$ from the Yankees.
Now they think Wang owes it to the Yankees to take whatever crumbs the Yankees throw his way because he had the nerve to have surgery while taking the $5m.
I understand the Yankees decision, but I don’t get how people can think anything negative about Wang’s position. Pitchers and players get hurt all the time, I don’t know why people feel those guys owe anything.
Take everything you hear, at this time of year especially, with a grain of salt. Too many writers don’t have much to report on so they work to make stories out of very little.
Legit call is right squid.
Usually, the Giants get called for special teams penalties and there are never any replays.
So in all likelihood, the referees can just make them up.
The Yankees current (37-man) roster …….
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....p?c_id=nyy
Brian Cashman said a few days ago that Edwar Ramirez was on life support.
I put no stock in any of these Halladay rumors.
m
If Wang didn’t accept the Yankees split contract because he was hurt, well within his right but there is no place for “hurt” if you want to call it a business decision.
Squid, that could be it……but that’s sort of wimpy, isn’t it? He’s used to the AL, he’s had great success in the AL…………and I’m sure AJ has talked to him about what a great place NY is to play.
Eh, I’m starting to get annoyed at Halladay and I know it’s stupid, lol.
LOL Doreen. I’ve always been glad the Phils have been good because I hate the Mets, but I will be so annoyed at Halladay and the Phillies when they get him that I will start hating them, too. I used to hate the Braves, then liked them when they would always beat the Mets. I’ll end up rooting for the Braves in that division,lol
Doreen, AJ wanted to stay in the AL…..love that attitude. He said he was used to the AL East and preferred to face guys he was comfortable facing (or something like that). Good for him, lol.
“It just occurs to me that at some point someone in Wang’s camp needed to be more assertive”
doreen-
i agree. i think he has a new agent, but i’m not sure about that.
I’d say Halladay’s (like most athletes) #1 choice is the winning team that will pay him the most money.
“Squid, that could be it……but that’s sort of wimpy, isn’t it? He’s used to the AL, he’s had great success in the AL…………and I’m sure AJ has talked to him about what a great place NY is to play”
I honestly don’t think Burnett has much influence in any of this. Both the Yankees and Philly offer what he’s supposedly looking for (opportunity to win, spring training in his backyard). If I’m Alex the Greek, I’m looking to move him to Philly unless the Yankees just wow me.
BTW, anyone remember when the Giants had a defense?
pat,
Is Wang hurt? It could be just a business decision on his part.
Wife kicks the guy out of the house and there’s a restraining order. He can only come into the garage. Can’t come into the house until he proves himself.
She expects him to stay in the garage? Or is he free to go find another place to live where he can have a bed and a place to shower and people who actually want him around?
m -
I know you weren’t talking about me, but this situation is very complicated for me and i wanted to address that, since when I read what I wrote I seem to be taking a different stance than I had. It’s just me going over things from different angles. I sometimes do that. It’s good sometimes; other times it’s just an exercise in giving myself a headache.
betsy -
Definitely more of a challenge to stay in the AL East. I have a feeling that the Jays were really not going to make a deal within their division despite what they said. I think it was lip service. I think Doc knows this. So, if that’s the situation, and you sort of know that the Yankees and Red Sox are not really options, what’s your choices? Stay with the Blue Jays until free agency or accept a trade to another contender? Of the Angels and the Phillies, the Phillies meet all his requirements (east coast training in Florida and a contending team). AJ was a free agent. Free is free.
Actually, if Doc is not facing the Yankees 5 times a season, I’ll be happy – that’s 5 more opportunities to win! And if the Yankees face the Phillies in the WS in 2010 with Doc on the mound, I’ll take my chances.
randy l -
So Nero is a new guy for Wang? Good.
Why dont you whine a little bit more D-Mac?
You certainly did not care in a Super Bowl.
Why dont you go make some more phone calls.
Look at Andy Reid trying to pull out all the stops in a regular season game, but not in a Super Bowl or 4 NFC championship games.
Maybe, Andy, you ought to try to get your household in order first, as you’ve got a criminal druggie for a son.
I guess beating the NYG is more important than his own son….
but not a Super Bowl, of course.
apropos of nothing, but Nova’s pitching well in the winter league-25.2, 3 runs, 1.05..
Regarding Halladay and Phillies, it was in one of the many rumors that someone (not him) thought he would list the Phillies as his first team because it wouldn’t be under the same lights as NYY.
I am sure many GMs would love to have Doc. Most of them aren’t going to wreck their team to get him.
Until something happens, its a lot of speculation rather than substance with these reports.
CR9,
Bitter much?
Nice punt coverage.
Neil
Thanks for the roster post. Edwar lol
Oh well.
It’s amazing this team can be where they are, at 7-5, with losers for coordinators.
Offense, defense, and special teams.
Gilbride did not help us win SB XLII.
Sheridan should be fired and arrested for trespassing for being the stain that he is.
Pathetic.
The referees are actually treating us fairly in a game, and this is what we have done.
Eagles taking it to the Giants 24-10, C’mon Eli!
Why would I be bitter about the lowly Eagles?
They have never done anything in their history.
I am just pointing out the facts.
Phillies have a tough choice that is somewhat similar to the Yanks…..They can sacrifice the furure with the incresed chance of winning now and for a few years…The other issue is the $$$ price when it comes to Doc & Lee next season…..After wnat they gave to The Indians for Lee, and what’s left will be going to The Blue Jays for Doc…….I’t be years before they can recover all the young talent they’ll be shipping off to be a Championship quality team Today…….Fork in the road time
m
“The kid was just “fired” and everyone expects him to say, “Yes! Yes! I’ll take that contract right after you let me go!” because they’re the Yankees? Don’t you think he has the right to feel hurt? Be sensitive? Let him cool off a bit before writing his future with the Yankees off.”
I don’t know if his feelings are hurt. This ^ made it sound like you thought they were.
For whatever it’s worth- Feinsand says he spoke with someone close to Wang (a former LoHudder?) and Wang holds ill will towards the Yanks because of his 2008 arbitration hearing so he won’t be back.
m, you were on very solid ground until you veered into the husband analogy. Otherwise, very good stuff. Compassion and sober understanding for Wang’s POV are good things.
Signed, Analogy Police
Betsy, I’ll agree that I have no right to say you have no compassion and that’s not what I meant. You don’t seem to have any compassion for C.M. Wang and that was my point. I don’t have a clue about you as person. However in your posting here you’ve struck me as caring about the players. That’s what I’m talking about here, nothing more. My apologies if I’ve upset you. Wang was one of my favorite Yankees simply because he was so selfless and came in and excelled until felled by a freak injury. I respect that kind of dedication. And although by all reports he was upset by the 2007 arbitration decision, he didn’t allow it to affect his on field performance. A lot of today’s athlete’s pout over something like that. Doreen that what set Wang apart. It wasn’t all about $$ IMo.
Good fortune.
Pat M -
And, then, what if they don’t win? I mean, even with Halladay and Lee, it could happen.
The fact that people are posting here might be the answer, but is there a giants or knicks blog as good as this one?
I don’t think Halladay is going to sign an extension wherever he goes. He could make much more on the open market where several teams are bidding on him instead of just a couple.
Steve T
Nope. Giants blog does not get used anymore. Neither does Jets IIRC.
Ah, yes. I did write that. But “if” he’s hurt, who can blame him? I’d be hurt. Then I’d remember that I was a free agent and free to join any team that offered me a deal. And then I’d feel a lot better about it.
Has Wang shut the door to returning based on what has happened in the past or recent past? If he has, then that’s a shame. But that just shows that it’s not always business. And people do make decisions based on their feelings. Owner/player relations are important don’t you think?
Andy’s one of those who left because the Yankees didn’t show him the love due to health concerns. So Wang leaving wouldn’t be unprecedented.
I don’t even want Wang to necessarily be a Yankee. I’d settle for him getting back to form and resuming his successful pitching career.
Al Michaels.
The timeout was taken by the (long pause) Eeeeeegles (in a drastically different voice than the beginning of the sentence).
And Al is wondering if Ahmad got in!
Whew, finally 24-17 Eagles. Looks like Giants are finally playing.
It’s almost always about the money, though, even if it’s just a little bit. If he had won the arbitration hearing, he’d be back? I don’t understand the Yankees’ stance on that particular circumstance. But I do know that many, many players have had to sit through a tough arbitration hearing, and many players have lost in arbitration. It’s just part of MLB these days. I’ve heard a player needs to have a tough skin during those things because things will be said to justify a team’s position – they’re not going to sit there saying only glorious things about you and then ask for you to be paid the lesser amount. If he’s still holding a grudge from then, I don’t know what that says. I would think he does not hold a grudge – why hang around the team during the playoffs? If he Yankees had no respect for him, why would they invite him to be with him during the WS run?
This is a complex situation.
Just less than 2 weeks ago, Wang was quoted as saying he wanted to return to the Yankees. Perhaps he doesn’t harbor as much ill will as some believe?
I don’t know.
Pat M, I remember the legendary LoHud/Wang discussion you mention with such fondness. It was indeed a good and fruitful conversation.
I think, however, that you’re overlooking one key fact about that chat: one of the key (and most knowledgable and well informed participants) put forth an argument that the Yankees were deliberately telling Wang to change his arm slot and release point… which proved to be false.
Commenter CB, to his credit, argued against that assertion — an argument joined by some know-nothing court jester types.
I tend to doubt that the Phillies would be able to sign Lee and Halladay to extensions. It hasn’t seemed to be moving that way with Lee that I’ve heard.
Giving up players to get Lee and Halladay and not extending either of them could derail them long term, even if they did well this coming season.
With Werth and Lee and Halladay all becoming FA’s after this coming season it doesn’t seem like the most prudent move to make, but some GM’s take the view to go for it all now because that might be their last shot for a while.
I think that is some of what has Boston holding back right now. Ortiz is nearing his end, they are paying to have players play on other teams, their farm isn’t ready to really help out the club.
Add in the economy and it makes taking it slow an easier decision to make for those who would have to invest big in their club.
Great job not being mentally aware.
I thought that was a fumble, and our guys just stood around looking like idiots.
Had we picked it up, it might have been our ball.
Doreen,
It is complex. I don’t know if this is true or not, but could the looong delay in announcing arbitrations be due to some kind of ongoing conversations with Nero/Cash? Yankees attempt to sign him to a minor league deal so they could announce it with the non-tender?
One thing for sure is that the non-tender was not a surprise to Wang’s camp.
Until it comes out otherwise, I’m going to believe that Nero is posturing on behalf of his client.
Just as I don’t hold things Cash says against him, I won’t hold things agents say against them either. It’s the art of the deal, I suppose.
It’s not always a Yankees/Pettitte 2010, as Andy can well attest to.
m -
Absolutely.
We’re not in the room with these guys and we’re not in their heads, for sure. and the posturing on both sides is a part of the whole process.
they have to have short memories.
If Halladay goes to Philly then I think theres an almost certain chance that either Halladay or Lee will be available for 2011. I can’t see the Phillies re-signing Halladay, Lee, and Werth without some major discounts being given.
Wang did say being a Yankee was his first choice but what else would he say when the Yanks are deciding whether or not to tender him a guaranteed contract?
This team is pathetic.
Standing around not picking up a fumble.
Lack of discipline.
Lack of effort.
Lack of hustle.
Lack of mental awareness.
Lack of coaching.
m
In my experience, making decisions based on emotion in a business setting isn’t smart.
I once had a boss who was willing to kiss off a multi million dollar customer over a $2500 credit chargeback because of the principle of it. I wrote the company a check and had them issue the credit. I made it back in commission I never would have gotten if I let his emotion rule.
From a principle standpoint, my boss was right. I preferred to be smart instead of right.
Nick in SF -
True, true.
Dag-nab-it Eagles score a Td AGAIN 30-17!
The thing that Tom Coughlin is supposed to be good at…
is discipline, teaching responsibility, mental awareness…
and that is what our team seems to be lacking the most.
pat,
You’re right, but I’m glad these players have feelings. Not like that other guy who came crawling back…
@Doreen: but that doesn’t mean what he said wasn’t true!
m
Being selective in who you do and don’t understand exploring free agency is working from a place of emotion not business.
lol, pat.
When they say “I never wanted to leave the Yankees”, I’ll believe Wang over that guy.
Of course, Wang hasn’t said that yet.
TD Giants 30-24 Eagles.
I must say that objectively, the moron to thoughtful ratio on the Boston Board is at least 3 times as high as here.
THIS IS A JOKE!!!!!!!!
That touch caused him to go down.
Does Joe G need to go now and show Eli how to slide.
Turnover ball back to the Eagles.
Nick
Was the aforementioned discussion being the one that led to an epic “debate” between you and Lohud’s resident bullpen catcher? If so I also remember the vigorous discourse that ensued.
From Pete’s blog:
The Red Sox would be smart to take a look. Wang would love to stay in the Northeast, there’s a Taiwanese community in the area and he would welcome the chance to pitch against the Yankees.
That’s a pretty bold statement there by PeteAbe, no?
I do not understand the rules of football but they seem designed to thwart the Giants.
After the replay, it was a fumble.
But, I have one point. If Eli got up after being down, then ran to the endzone for a TD, they would’ve ruled him down by contact, and there would have been no way they would have given him the TD on a challenge.
The fact is, that could have been called down by contact, but the refs made sure to get the call right, like they did not do against the 49ers in the playoffs several years ago, or the Tuck rule.
Now the Drive stalling flag on first down.
m
If the following is true, you won’t be hearing it either.
“Many believe the Yankees will simply bring Wang back on a lesser deal filled with incentives. Think again. A source close to Wang told me recently that the pitcher is still bothered that the Yankees took him to an arbitration hearing over $600,000 in 2008 – then gloated publicly after winning the case.
I’d be shocked if he was back with the Yankees. Some forward-thinking GM will surely roll the dice on him, especially if they believe his agents that he’ll be ready to pitch by early May. The source told me this week that should Wang be non-tendered, it would be time for him to “turn the page” on his time with the Yankees.”??
http://www.nydailynews.com/blo.....z0ZdCqdNbK
TarheelYank: I don’t remember it ending it devolving into solely a debate between randy and myself, but maybe I’m blocking things out.
I did vigorously argue that the suggestion that Eiland/etc were deliberately monkeying with Wang’s arm slot/release point was nonsensical.
randy remains one of my favorite commenters here — no joke.
Look at this scumbag McNabb is this scumbag team.
Dancing around like they won a SB?
McNabb, why did you not care about winning a SB like you care about winning this game.
Bill Sheridan should not be allowed to finish this game coaching. He should be escorted out of the stadium in handcuffs.
and this scumbag team: correction
Dancing into the end zone backwards.
Classless is the only word.
Huh! And I thought 2 plays, 1:19 was impressive!
They just threw him down after the whistle had been blown!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And no Rouging the quarterback call!!!!!!!!!!!
“And no Rouging the quarterback call!!!!!!!!!!!”
Eli’s face is red enough tonight.
If there’s one thing Wang knows,it’s the rabid fan base mentality in beantown. I think he’d rather steer clear,just a guess.
Why would they rouge the quarterback? Eli’s cheeks are already pink!
They only Rouge the quarterback at LSU — or in France.
lol, pat.
It is no wonder why all the Eagles act like scumbags.
Andy Reid cannot even parent his own child into not being a druggie and drug pushing scumbag.
How can one expect Reid to teach his players about class?
You cant.
m
Eli’s cheeks are pink with a SB XLII win.
18-1*
Apologies. 18*-1
M, true….but he’s one year away from FA. He could refuse to sign an extension and then, after 2010, sign with the team he prefers….
Aba, Halladay’s a quiet guy (at least since his transformation, lol)….I guess it’s to be expected that people would assume he wouldn’t want the bright lights of NY. AJ has said that wouldn’t bother him at all, but then do any of us REALLY no know another person? I suspect Halladay doesn’t let many people into his world. The only thing we know about Doc and AJ is that Doc mentored him (sort of) and AJ allowed him to loosen up a bit. That’s all superfical stuff – only Halladay knows how he’d be. Being a quiet person doesn’t mean you can’t handle the bright lights, big city – Bernie was quiet and even AJ is quiet (pies aside). There are others I could list that aren’t coming to mind now……. I will just say that, while Philly isn’t NY, it is a harsh place to play. The fanbase is brutal……..
Giants receivers tend to struggle with…..well,receiving.
It broke my heart when the Iggles drafted DeSean Jackson.
A linebacker on Jackson??? Guess that makes sense insomuch as the d’backs haven’t been able to cover him.
Comet, I like Wang, but he’s no different to me than any of the other Yankees as far as being better or worse. I don’t expect any professional to allow his feelings about arbitration to effect his on-field performance, so for me, Wang doesn’t get extra credit. I would say the same about any other Yankee. I feel badly for him that he got hurt – I feel badly when any playere gets hurt, on any team. After all, it’s his career at stake and we are all human. I’m not sure how else I should be feeling. Did the Yankees err in how they went about rehabbing him? Yes…..but as I think Doreen mentioned earlier, they certainly didn’t do it on purpose. That doesn’t necessarily help Wang, but for me it’s a mitigating factor. Lots of fans are angry at the Yankees…..I just can’t go there. Believing that the Yankees did the right thing in non-tendering Wang is not the same as not having compassion. They did offer him a minor league deal which would turn into a major league deal once Wang showed his shoulder was healthy – that tells me the Yankees wanted him back. If Wang is upset personally by it, then I disagree with him……. but he has every right to do what he wishes now that he’s a FA.
Pat M, the Phils didn’t give up much for Lee…….and from all accounts, their farm system is loaded. They seem to be desperate for Halladay, Halladay apparently wants him…….their guys are going to be FA in a year or so. It’s a perfect storm.
I just don’t know where Cash will go……..he’s going to have to be flexible with the contracts he wants to give to SPs if he wants to sign any of these guys. I still don’t know who there is outside of Sheets (forget Lackey_.
Just wow.
CR9
For all the talk of “no class”, you sure aren’t demonstrating any.
Rather than beefing that the Eagles are playing this game like it’s a Super Bowl, you should be wondering why the Giants aren’t.
Bodh, are you “wowing” at the same thing I am or this dopey football game that has taken over the blog?
I hope Halladay Doesn’t go to Phillie, I don’t want to face him And Lee in a world series
Sure – we all hope some opposing team’s family member dies……
Nothing we can do about it, David. Those 2 in a rotation with Hamels (who is very talented and who will bounce back, I’m sure)…..and that offense? They will be unbeatable in the NL and maybe in the WS.
CR9: give yourself a time out. You’re nuts.
Betsy – high on pie
December 13th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Bodh, are you “wowing” at the same thing I am or this dopey football game that has taken over the blog?
=====
Bets,
I think we’re wowing as one, here, you and I.
Excellent advice.
nick in sf-
i think you remember pretty accurately that back and forth we all had that night over wang’s release point.
i knew it was off and i did speculate that the yankees were doing it on purpose.
i had never seen an arm slot go up before unless it was intentional.
cb did take the position that it was the injury that did it. pat m spotted the low leg kick compared to his previous high kick when some video was posted.
the point to me was that we, the blog, were ahead of the curve in thinking about what was going on.
a lot of people added stuff. there was one poster who i can’t remember his name who added some video i think that really helped. it was a good night for the blog.
i remember sam borden was sitting in for pete at one point and he did ask eiland about wang’s release point being too high. sam may have been prompted to do his by that discussion , but i can’t remember exactly. i know he asked eiland though.
eiland told him that the yankees weren’t having him raise his arm slot.
i have no doubt that this blog was as close as any blog to knowing what was going on with wang.
What are you guys talking about in regards to Wang’s release point?
cr9-
i think you just got yourself banned.
if not you should be.
I did not say I was happy or hope it.
It is sad, period.
This Giants team is playing the best they can. Their D and O coordinators are clowns.
CR9, you sound eerily similar to Jim Pir-one.
Is no one minding this store?
L to the 2nd
December 13th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
CR9, you sound eerily similar to Jim Pir-one.
=====
He may have been nuts, but I don’t recall bigoted slurs from him.
CR, you said that having a family member die couldn’t happen to a nicer guy? Are you sick? Have you ever had anyone in your family die? There are several things more important in life than a football game……
The fact of the matter right now is the Giants secondary couldn’t cover my Grandmother, and she died 15 years ago.
And I’m almost as big a NYG fan as NYY fan.
CR9-
You’re outta here, really distasteful.
That’s what I thought, Bod…I’m feeling rather creeped out now.
Bodi, it’s the tone that’s similar.
Refs = umps
RS = Eagles
Some small substitutions, but I think we’ve got our man (who I thought was already banned)
“CR9, you sound eerily similar to Jim Pir-one.”
They once shared a cell.
CR9….I always thought that was a Canadian Regional Jet…….Bad vibes my man
If the Phillies were to acquire Halliday I think that would require us to upgrade our pitching and/or offense to counter
it. We might have to emlarge the budget some to accomodate those changes.I do not know if that is an option but I hope it would be.
Betsy,
It’s funny you said that – I’m feeling somewhat solar plexus sensitive myself.
A very, very good night to you and all the other friendly, upbeat, civilized people on here.
When I check back in tomorrow, I hope the grabbers will be gone.
“I am the farthest thing from a racist, but these scumbags McNabb and Jackson have me using the N word.”
cr9-
we bash each other all the time over baseball ideas, but you simply can not make a comment like that on this blog. it is a rascist comment despite you saying it isn’t.
you really need to take it back .
I’ve no idea if they are the same, but both of them have an almost pathological hatred of the Sox and anyone who favors them. Every post is so angry and hate-filled.
Re: CMW:
I really hope he accepts a lesser contract and eventually comes back to the Yanks. He has the right to check out what’s out there but I’m not sure there are too many teams that will take a flyer on him. He made $4m last year & I don’t think he’s gonna accept less than $2m + incentives for a ML deal.
Wow, I didn’t even see that comment about the “N” word……..This is just ugly and there is no taking it back.
MTU, the Yankees aren’t going to make changes they don’t believe in to deal with an NL team they may never face. I’m sure they are well aware of how good Philly would be with Halladay…….but if it meant anything to them, they’d be working the phones with A.A.
““CR9, you sound eerily similar to Jim Pir-one.”
They once shared a cell.
Was it a Brain cell?
I still have the feeling Halladay’s going nowhere & will test the market next Fall
Betsy-
If the Phillies have a staff of Lee, Halladay, Hamels, etc. I think Phillies would be the team to beat especially with the offense. Their only real weakness might be their bullpen. If we did not make any counter moves to the potential of that kind of competition I would think it a bit foolhardy on our part. I think we will upgrade anyway so maybe its a moot point.
What a sad display in the Meadowlands (not to mention on LoHud).
Later.
I think Halladay will ok a trade but refuses to give an extension.No matter who trades bfor him. Its his last big payday. Has he ever hit the fa market before?
CR man up. What you said and infereed was and is reprehensible. Take ownership and apologize. There is no room for those sentiments, either of them, here on this blog nor frankly anywhere else decent people converse.
Hi everyone. CR9 and I have been emailing since his distasteful comment that was posted about a half hour ago. At my request — and because he emailed me to find out how he could fix the situation — he tried to post this apology, but it apparently got stuck in our filter.
It was a dumb, inexcusable thing to say on so many levels. Here’s his message. I’m all for second chances around here, if that’s alright with everyone else.
———
I apologize for my hate filled comments tonight.
I am never happy when anyone passes away.
I should not have mentioned the word thing; I was trying to convey how angry I was over their classless behavior, and in turn, acted classless myself.
I will no longer post hate filled comments like that again.
Chad…I’m cool with his return, as he made a sincere effort and expressed his regrets………He probably dropped a grand on the game as well…..We’ve never been on the same page, but this is the best Yankee Blog so let him back, I say
sounds sincere.
second chances sound good to me.
Fair enough, second chance should be granted.
It’s not up to me to decide on 2nd chances……I’m usually all for them. In this case, I can’t say I’m particularly forgiving, but again it’s not up to me. I can easily skip over his posts…
Wow. Just wow. I go to pick up the daughter, and I missed a &*&*storm.
You’ve got so much to learn, Chad. You have to delete the original comment.
Doc is gone…..
http://twitter.com/RonArtest4MVP
Angels Trade : Joe Saunders,Mike Napoli,Erick Aybar,Trevor Reckling For Roy Halladay..Halladay Signs New Deal $ 60 million extension 4 years
Betsy, You don’t want coal in your stocking do you ???? It’s Christmas Time, Joy To The World and all that …..Your voice counts you know
http://huehueteotl.files.wordp....._verso.jpg
Wang was a bum last year
ronartest4mvp?!
Grain of salt…
I always manage to just miss the fireworks in here.
I forgot I could do that! Clearly I’m still learning.
The comment is gone and I think CR9 is going to stay with us. It was an inexcusable thing to say, and he’s not making excuses. He seems sincerely sorry. Second chances are good, but we can’t have that nonsense around here.
Betsy, that tweet is from over an hour ago.
Me thinks if Halladay was traded some more reputable outlet would have picked up on it by now.
Pat M, fortunately I don’t celebrate Christmas, so I don’t have a stocking to put coal in, lol. I’m sorry, but I have absolutely no patience or tolerance for racism (and don’t get me going on the comment about the dying family member). I’m not saying anyone here does, but Chad asked for opinions and I gave mine. Words can’t express what I feel about this guy – but I’m not going to start anything here. It’s fine that people feel differently than I do……..
Tom, you’re probably right. I don’t even see it mentioned on Jays’ forums……We’ll see, though. If it’s not true, I would be one ticked off Angel fan for being fooled.
Wow is that Halladay deal true?
I’d say that’s a nice haul for the Jays as they got a lot of ML ready talent. They certainly weren’t going to get that from the Yanks.
The extension seems awfully cheap no?
Too many on here sound and act like 16 yr. old boys !!!
Calling the players classless, (they are in many cases) then acting the same way as posters !!!
Grow up and post like the writer of this blog does and then you’ll really have a class act here unlike the Sawx posters !!!
Second chance? It feels like we’re in Steve Howe territory here… Oh merciful blog!
Sure, but often we can find answers in the songs of Elvis Costello:
“If I were you I’d change my name again”
That extension has to be wrong, no way he would take $60M for years, no way!
That trade is false.
That amount does seem weird, but who knows? A Halladay trade to the Angels or Phils seems to have an air of inevitablity to it.
RT @dnelson332: Roy Halladay is booked for a physical at the Rockwell Institute in Philadelphia!
Second chances? Sure, I believe in that. How many wanted to give Plax B a second chance? Go to confession for second chances. The first comment was racist. The second was worse, it was compassionless and heartless. Figure out my vote.
Betsy, I respect your position……Nick in SF, you always have a way of putting things into a different perspective…..Time to move on
I’ll bet 1 million grains of salt that Halladay won’t sign an extension with the Phillies or the Angels.
If he’s being traded to the Angels, why is he taking a physical in the city of brotherly love?
Thanks, Pat M……….I’m not going to dwell on it as evidenced by the fact that I’m still obsessed with Halladay (how I wish I weren’t).
M, Halladay is so good that he can play for 2 teams in 2011. The commish is going to redo the schedules so that the Angels and Phillies never play at the same time…..it’s a good way for Halladay to rack up some frequent flyer miles.
2010…
Betsy, If The Angels are in on Halladay, Doc would be heading out here to be checked out at The Newport Orthopedic Institute….I see many ballplayers going in for physicals, and it’s where Scott Boras sends all his players for their evaluations…..I share the same Ortho-pods…..Saw my old drinking pal Tracy Austin a few months ago as she was getting her knee tapped
Tracey Austin, wow! That’s a blast from the past.
Pat M, I’ve always liked Tracy Austin. I was too young to see her play, but she always seemed so all-American to me, like Chrissy Evert (who I loved).
Halladay is consuming my thoughts more than even Santana did…….I hate it, lol. I should be in bed by now.
Betsy, she’s a good lady, however after her tennis career ended she was a nightbird of sorts…..She still lives in Palos Verdes Penninsula…My time with her was back in 1988-89…..Absoulte and tonic was her preference….
I’m not high on Aceves either.
Great post Chad. The piece cuts both ways respecting the Yankees evaluation of pitching prospects. With 14 no longer in the Yanks system and only 2 of the those on someone’s 40-man roster the Yanks seem to have a handle on who to move. But with 14 arms moving out of the system in two years and none impacting the Yanks or another club it might demonstrate some issues with their ability to evaluate pitching prospects. I think the bullpen and the performance of the arms in the minors shows they know their talent but that is a fair number of arms moving up and on with little impact.
The former blog host:
“But the Yankees took him to an arbitration hearing the following February, refusing to split the difference over a mere $600,000. When the club won the hearing, team president Randy Levine put out a press release boasting about it.”
I seriously doubt that Wang is that naive. Arbitration is a win-win for players, irrespective of the outcome of any particular hearing. If he is truly offended that the Yankees sought to prevail in the hearing, then either he doesn’t understand the process, or someone has misinformed him about the Yankees’ intent.
Alternatively this is all overblown in order to gain a negotiating advantage, and people like the former blog host is all too willing to advance this nonsensical meme.
“Absoulte and tonic was her preference….”
No “e”…but apart from that, good for her.
Pat M.,
Didn’t Tracy Austin become a nun and start a foundation for children? Or do I have her confused with some other teen tennis star?
Clare, That was Andrea Jagger….Thank’s for the correction Rich in NJ…..A favorite of yours ??? I’m a Smirnoff Black guy
And Pat clears up the ‘nun habit’ v. ‘gin habit’ mystery…
Very Good m………
CC Halladay Lackey AJ Andy!!
are there conflicting rumors about Halladay being traded?
Nothing ABOUT Halladay in the Latimes,Oc register,Toronto sun,Toronto star,mlbtraderumors,it must be a rumor.
The Yankee starting pitching has been mismanaged for a long time. Letting Wang go is just another instance of this. It wasn’t that long ago that he was the Yankees’ ace. Why let him go to save a mere 4 million? Would anybody be surprised if he came back to be the Wang of old this season (with someone else, of course). If I were the Red Sox, I’d take a four million dollar flyer. The list of starters in the system, outside of the Big three, doesn’t inspire much confidence. We were lucky in the playoffs that the Big three were up to pitching on short rest because there was nothing behind them. Over the last several years, we’ve been stuck with the likes of Small, Chacon, Ponson, Rasner, Karstens, Mitre, Giese, and Gaudin in the fourth and fifth spots. The farm system has yielded nothing, other than Wang. I would recommend that the Yankees go out and get a couple of guys: preferrably Lackey and Bedard (who would come relatively cheaply). Unfortunately for the Steinbrenners, it always seems to take a boatload of money to bail out the team from the chronic mismanagement that it suffers.
“Doc is gone…..
http://twitter.com/RonArtest4MVP
Angels Trade : Joe Saunders,Mike Napoli,Erick Aybar,Trevor Reckling For Roy Halladay..Halladay Signs New Deal $ 60 million extension 4 years”
—————————————
you’re really naive. Halladay would not sign an extension for 15 million/per
I searched everywhere couldn’t find anything on a possible Halladay deal ??
cuz it doesn’t exist. Unless you believe twitter entries with Ron Artest usernames
lol ok thanks Vinny
np Mike
Man there is nothing to talk about. We have already basically covered everyones opinions on what the Yankees should do and Wang was discussed basically all day yesterday.
Blake- There maybe a big signing or two this week. Maybe Bay goes to the Mets by weeks end ?
I just don’t see anything Yankee related. maybe more Johny Damon and Scott Boras posturing. thats about it
blake,
try predictions,
mine:
matt holliday – Angels
jason bay – Mets
roy halladay – Phillies
derrick lowe – Mets
ben sheets – Angels
beltre – Boston
nick johnson – SF
lackey – Seattle
derosa – Cards
cameron – Boston
Vinny, those are pretty good, I hope you’re wrong on Sheets.
blake: i hope so as well. He’s the only starter, i wouldn’t mind to see NYY pick-up. Most of these are shot in the darks. A lot of mystery to this year’s FA
I think those are pretty good guesses. I think the mets makes sense the Bay, they like to get overated expensive players. Yea I think Sheets could be the steal of the offseason, he also could get hurt but of he stays healthy he is really good.
Angels will be hurting if they don’t get either Lackey or Halladay.
Yea I agree that if the Angels are going to compete in 2010 then they need one of those two, especially with the other players they have lost. Lackey actually makes much more sense for them because I don’t think they can afford to lose anybody else in a trade
I just saw the tweet and I posted it – I didn’t even process what $60 million over 4 years meant. Sorry……
I think the Angels will try to keep Lackey, esp if the Ms are interested. The Ms could be a threat to the Angels if they continue to pick up good players, esp former Angel players.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo....._back.html
Even after bringing back Andy Pettitte and tendering contracts to Chad Gaudin and Sergio Mitre, the Yankees are looking for more pitching.
Brian Cashman is looking to add at least one more starter from outside the organization to a rotation that includes CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Pettitte, Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain. Such a move would allow him to move Hughes and/or Chamberlain to the bullpen.
While Cashman continues to monitor the Roy Halladay situation in Toronto, the general manager is looking at a couple of pitchers coming back from arm surgery: Justin Duchscherer and Ben Sheets
the angels have the money to re-sign lackey and I’m not sure why they haven’t already unless they know something about him that everyone else doesn’t.
I honestly mean this – who are all the Sox prospects that are expected to make an impact in 2011?
http://bostonherald.com.nyud.n.....ngType=sox
Blake, they’re apparently working on Lackey – haven’t they already offered him a deal that he turned down?. However, it appears they REALLY want Halladay – or both, actually.
OMG, this is unbelievably bad reporting from the Toronto Sun. The Jays/Phils did NOT discuss a Lee/Halladay swap, that was from the imagination of Ken Rosenthal.
http://www.torontosun.com/spor.....6-sun.html
Sports Columnists / Bob Elliott
Buck fills Jays’ hole
Slated to start behind plate
By BOB ELLIOTT
Last Updated: 14th December 2009, 8:32am
StoryCommentsEmail Story Print Size A A A Report Typo Share with:
Facebook Digg Del.icio.us Google Stumble Upon Newsvine Reddit Technorati Feed Me Yahoo Simpy Squidoo Spurl Blogmarks Netvouz Scuttle Sitejot + What are these? At 12:01 yesterday morning, the best catcher on the Blue Jays’ 40-man roster was John McDonald.
Ten hours, later the Jays had re-signed Raul Chavez to a minor-league deal worth $550,000 US, if he makes the opening-day roster, as a backup. Chavez had been non-tendered the day before.
Two hours after the Chavez signing, the Jays agreed with catcher John Buck on a one-year $2-million deal conditional on him passing his physical. That may not be routine as Buck missed roughly five weeks with the Kansas City Royals this season because of a herniated disk in his back. Buck, 29, was healthy enough to start 11 games in September. He was non-tendered on Saturday by the Royals, who had signed Jason Kendall to a three-year, $6-million deal to be their No. 1 catcher.
Buck started 41 games this past season, hitting a career-high .247, with eight homers and 36 RBIs while, earning $2.9 million. But in each of the previous four seasons, he started more than 100 games (112, 107, 104 and 106). He had 18 homers in 2007 and the year before had a career-high 50 RBIs.
Buck has had trouble nailing base-stealers recently. He threw out 16% and 17% of runners the past two seasons after erasing 34% in 2007, which was a better mark than the Jays tandem of Gregg Zaun (23.6%) and Bengie Molina (18%).
Buck, however, does have a reputation for game preparation and working with young pitchers.
The Jays moved quickly to fill their most obvious vacancy and decided Buck was a better option than his former Royals teammate Miguel Olivo, Mike Redmond, Yorvit Torrealba or Matt Treanor.
Buck, like shortstop Alex Gonzalez, can be a one-year stop gap until J.P. Arencibia arrives. The shortstop of the future has yet to be identified.
More Halladay talk
The Jays discussed a three-way deal which would see Roy Halladay wind up with the Philadelphia Phillies, lefty Cliff Lee go to the Seattle Mariners and prospects come to the Rogers Centre, according to FOX Sports.
Like Halladay, Lee is a former Cy Young Award winner with a year left on his contact, but the report said the initial meeting with Lee’s agent, Darek Braunecker, last week in Indianapolis, did not go well.
There would be a horde of prospects for the Jays to choose from: Shortstop Carlos Triunfel, catcher Adam Moore, former No. 1 pick Phillippe Aumont, a pitcher from Gatineau, Que., and outfielder Michael Saunders of Victoria, B.C.
After seeing how well fans failed to storm the gates to see Corey Koskie of Anola, Man., the Jays’ mandate will be to obtain the best players, not the best Canadians. That’s the way business was conducted in August, as the Jays failed to come to terms with lefty James Paxton of Ladner, B.C., selected 37th overall and Newmarket lefty Jake Eliopoulos (68th).
The Philllies could move two minor-league outfielders, either Dominic Brown or Michael Taylor.
Sounds like the workings of a good deal for both the Phillies and the Jays. Seattle? Not so much.
Sorry, I only meant to paste the Halladay part.
After the way Boras played the Angels last year with TEX, no way is Holliday coming to the Angels.
The GM has come out emphatically and said he had no interest in Holliday.
Damon had better come to his senses soon before he gets offered Abreu money. The media hype has said other teams are interested. No team ownership has stepped forward and confirmed anything.
The bleacher report has an article:
Johnny Damon may have overplayed his hand,and could lose on the river hits the ball out the park.
http://www.bleacherreport.com/.....-the-river
I can understand why Halladay could push Hughes or Joba to the pen, BUT Duchscherer or Sheets? Are you freakin’ kidding me?
my take on sheets vs duchscherer. They both are coming off injuries but sheets has a much higher upside so of your taking a risk them to me you go with the guy who is better at 100%. And yes sheets would bump one of joba/hughes to the pen
Good morning-
If indeed the Phillies, Seattle and Toronto make that trade, that would not be a net gain for Phillies, Seattle getting back one of the best lefties, who I hope would test FA waters next year and sign with CC and the Yankees. He’s younger, proven in WS, and a lefty to replace Pettitte in 2011.
Plus it gets Halladay to the NL and Lee to the AL west.
If indeed only prospects are involved, I’d like to see the Yankees get Lee!
“And yes sheets would bump one of joba/hughes to the pen”
How did the Yankees go from developing the Big Three to be members of the rotation, to the Big One?
from Peter Gammons twitter:
mike Lowell may require thumb surgery because of years of ever playing hard and diving for balls. doesn’t deserve it
about 1 hour ago from mobile web
awww poor mike lowell he doesn’t deserve a thumb surgery
Too many rumors on Damon, with Boras handling the negotiations. “Don’t make an offer unless it’s 13 million x 3 years.” “Yankees haven’t contacted Damon.” If Damon wants to come back, let him pick up the phone and call Cashman and not deal thru the media.
Here’s a possible cheap solution for DH-Sign Rocco Baldelli to hit lefties and play some OF, with Miranda facing righties
New thread—>
Ken Rosenthal an hyperbole an it was picked up by all the media,why? Because it feeds the Hotstove frenzy.
Cashman being so prepared to Deal for Granderson, was a stealth move and the media didn’t get it first. So know they jump the shark, and speculate (just make it up.)
“the angels have the money to re-sign lackey and I’m not sure why they haven’t already unless they know something about him that everyone else doesn’t.”
Good point, especially when you add this to it: I don’t think the Angels would trade for and extend Halladay, and then re-sign Lackey as well. Nothing in their last 4 years has suggested this type of spending. So, they are saying they would prefer to have just Halladay rather than Saunders and Lackey. That doesn’t sound like good decsion making to me. Unless they have no faith in Lackey holding up for any length of time.
That said, I would be quite happy if Halladay is on a toothless Angels team with as much chance to win as the Blue Jays, while Lackey ends up somewhere besides NY or Boston.
i am very uneasy about joba and hughes in the starting rotation…they tried that a couple of years ago and i think they won one game between them….sign a good sp and put the other guy in the bp…
TESTING