Depends on what your definition of is, is
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When Brian Cashman left the Winter Meetings four days ago, he said nothing was imminent. No trade was on the verge of happening, no free agent was about to sign. In that same media session, though, Cashman said he had met with the agent for Ben Sheets. The day before he told us he had met with the agent for John Lackey. He’s said many times that he’s already met with Johnny Damon’s agent, Scott Boras.
All of that is helpful information, but it doesn’t always tell us much.
Damon says he hasn’t gotten an offer from the Yankees. Doesn’t mean the Yankees and Boras haven’t talked enough to get a feel for where the other side stands. Just means there isn’t an offer. Nothing is close.
As we’re considering the Yankees next move, just know that things are fairly wide open. The free agent market was just finalized over the weekend. None of the three biggest free agents have signed to help set the market. We know Cashman has talked to a lot of teams and a lot of agents, but it’s hard to know which are legitimate options and which are conversations that will go no further.
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on Monday, December 14th, 2009 at 12:35 pm by Chad Jennings.
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Sam Borden
Again, I think Cashman is looking at his batting lineup in a way to constantly keep the other team’s pitching staff under stress by having really good hitters from 1-9. All of this comparison stuff versus the Red Sox lineup is okay for fantasy baseball, but the object of the game Cashman is playing is to win ballgames by outscouring your opponent.
Craw, we’re getting greedy. Are you saying that the only way to win is with pressure from the 1 through 9 hitter? That having 2 average hitters will cause failure? Didn’t we win with Melky in the lineup as it was? Didn’t we just improve in CF? Didn’t we just add speed to the bases? Damon is a good hitter, granted, but his speed was declining. Melky has about the same speed as Damon has now, though admittantly not the bat. But Damon won’t be in LF, so our defense improves, which saves runs.
With Melky, we have an above average defender, an above average arm, above average bat, and above average speed.
With Granderson we have an above average defender, an above average arm, above average bat, and above average speed.
With Swisher we have an average defender, an above average arm, below average bat, and below average speed.
If anything, RF is deficient.
DaSaint,
do you understand OPS and other metrics?
You can bet the farm that the Yankees still have two huge moves at least to make before Pitchers and Catchers report!!! Bank on it———
Phil, no I don’t. I’m completely dumb so why don’t you educate me. Evidently, I don’t understand why we need to have the best player available at every position to have any chance to win. Please.
Did somebody just say Melky has an above average bat and Swisher is below average? Good lord.
Get a cheap DH and spend the savings on pitching.
Remember the “mantra” .
“Pitching, pitching & pitching ”
He’s knocked out the pitching.
Now it’s time to focus on the “,pitching & pitching” part.
“With Granderson we have an above average defender, an above average arm, above average bat, and above average speed”
Nothing remotely above average about Granderson’s arm.
in what world is a guy who hit almost 30HR a below average bat?
john lackey, if this red sox physical is true, may make their rotation one of the most injury-prone rotations in MLB.
DaSaint,
I think most (sane) readers agree that you don’t need All-Stars at every position to compete. But Melky is not an above average bat. If anything, he’s league average or below. Swisher is much more valuable with the bat.
Personally I’d love the Sheets move. Low risk (definitely a one year deal, maybe with an option), potential high reward.
If he’s healthy in October, that’s another big arm to throw in the playoffs. Even if he only gives us 20 starts during the season.
edit on Swisher: above average bat. Sorry Frank.
“DaSaint,
do you understand OPS and other metrics?”
Too funny! An above average hitter doesn’t necessarily have to be a superstar or an all-star player. That’s what some of us need to understand beyond what you and I are saying here.
EricVA, average is fine by me in LF. The kid is improving. There is absolutely no overt need to upgrade there. Of course, if the opportunity presents itself and is not too dependent on young talent or dollars, then sure we can do so, but to imply that we can’t win with Melky in LF is unreal.
If the plan is to save money on the position players and go after more starting pitching – this assumes that Damon and Holliday are out of the price range and that guys like Cameron and Matsui want multi-year deals.
Plan A:
Alfredo Aceves, Brett Gardner for David DeJesus
Sign Ben Sheets
OF = DeJesus (LF), Granderson (CF), Melky (RF) Swisher (DH)
Plan B:
Sign Ryan Church
Sign Ben Sheets
OF = Melky (LF), Granderson (CF), Church (RF) Swisher (DH)
Plan C:
Sign Jermaine Dye
Sign Ben Sheets
OF = Melky (LF), Granderson (CF), Swisher (RF) Dye (DH)
Oh I totally agree. Personally, I don’t think Melky is improving, but that’s just my opinion. They definitely can win with him playing left. His defense would definitely be better than Damon’s out there.
“the object of the game Cashman is playing is to win ballgames by outscouring your opponent.”
Yes, that’s generally every baseball team’s goal.
I’m not buying this lackey to the red sox stuff. The move makes no sense unless they are going to completely open the wallet and add the other things they need also.
We can win with Melky in LF but why make it hard on ourselves? If a better LF can be had why not go for it?
Again, look at the FA options for LF I posted in the last thread. In fact, I’ll make it easy. See below:
Left fielders
Garret Anderson (38) – Type B, not offered arb
Marlon Anderson (36)
Jason Bay (31) – Type A, offered arb
Emil Brown (35)
Marlon Byrd (32) – Type B, offered arb
Jack Cust (31)
Johnny Damon (36) – Type A, not offered arb
David Dellucci (36)
Cliff Floyd (37)
Jonny Gomes (29)
Matt Holliday (30) – Type A, offered arb
Reed Johnson (33)
Ryan Langerhans (30)
Laynce Nix (29)
Greg Norton (37)
Wily Mo Pena (28)
Jeremy Reed (29)
Gary Sheffield (41)
Cory Sullivan (30)
Fernando Tatis (35) – Type B, not offered arb
Marcus Thames (33)
Randy Winn (36) – Type B, not offered arb
Considering the costs, which ones of them do we want patrolling in LF? And if not them, then what trades for a LF seem plausible?
Rosenthal says the Lackey rumor is confirmed and his Boston Deal would be like AJ’s.
This means they can throw Bucholz in a deal for a bat, and I bet they already have one lined up.
Is anybody else getting the feeling that I have that the Yanks are dancing with Damon until some of the big free agents start moving to signing? And whether the Yanks can get into some of these deals first eg price drops on Bay or Lackey, Holliday.? And also get the feeling that there really is a contest of wills right now about making the first splash to create the market. I think the market is a bit of big game of “chicken” waiting on the Yanks and the Yanks are waiting on the market.
Chip, I like that you have sign Sheets in all of your options…
I think he’s perfect for what they need. Short term, high upside, throws strikes and likes to go deep in games.
Chip,
Damon will not be out of our price range. Even if Cameron/Matsui want multi-year deals the most they will get is 2 years which I’d be happy to give them.
It seems you are targeting lower tier players for no reason. Better players are available and well within the Yankees payroll.
Chip,
Have you seen Jermaine Dye lately? Church? We’re better off with Swisher in right.
And why trade Aceves? For DeJesus? You just weakened our pen!
As someone who agrees that Melky offensively is not on par with the rest of the league when you put him in the corners I shall explain:
Melky’s going to bat in the 9 spot regardless, so I’m fine with him playing in the corner and upping the production in CF (Granderson). I also think that by moving Swisher to DH and playing Melky in the OF you dramatically improve the outfield defense – and while offense is great – pitching and defense is even better.
I’m sure there’s going to be someone out there who will say that I’m selling Nick Swisher’s defense short, and my argument to that would be – if Swisher was better than Melky defensively then Girardi would have benched Damon, not Swisher late in games.
We can win with Melky in LF but why make it hard on ourselves? If a better LF can be had why not go for it?
———————————————————-
That’s right, let’s make it easy. Overwhelming maybe? Then just sign Bay or Holliday. And trade for Jason Werth for RF while we’re at it.
I just don’t see the reason to be up in arms over Melky playing LF. Just because the position is usually where a more powerful hitter is doesn’t mean it has to be that way. Short Stop is a position that normally doesn’t have a great bat, should Jeter be moved or let go because he is outside the norm?
Granderson adds more power to Center so that offsets Melky’s lower power numbers. Swish is OK in RF.
They need a DH because the rotation of players through there would mean that you have to give up at least 26 games of those players playing defense. That’s Alex, Jeter, Teixeira, Melky/Swisher/Granderson, Posada.
While Posada would be taking more DH, it would have to be nearer to 50 games. Either that or giving up the DH to a weak back up player.
None of the players need that kind of rest through the season. And if they need rest being DH negates some of that. Its far better to have the complete day off.
Add a pitcher and a DH and this team looks very very strong.
If Lackey signs with Boston then that puts the angels is quite tbe spot doesn’t it..
When comparing Melky to a replacement player you have to consider the definition of replacement.
Replacement player = readily available talent in AAA throughout the leagues. Basically ,any bum off the streets.
Melky is of course better than that.
He is worse than an AVERAGE major league player though. As evidenced by his 99 OPS+.
He is also worse than many of the options currently present on the market.
These are all factors.
I love Lackey to the Sox. I am hardly worried about John Lackey. Their only true stud would be Lester. Beckett, we’ve always hit and his injury prone. Lackey, we can hit him and he has elbow issues. Dice-K, complete luckbox whose nippon career is catching up to him. Wakefield, cannot even field a ball.
And their prospects behind them are not very intimidating.
“That’s right, let’s make it easy. Overwhelming maybe? Then just sign Bay or Holliday. And trade for Jason Werth for RF while we’re at it.”
Bay/Holliday are not in the Yankees price range right now. Werth will cost too much to acquire.
My point is, why settle for Cabrera in LF when Damon or Cameron can be had for less than $10 mill a year? Matsui can probably be signed for 5-6 mill to play DH.
Those are cheap, short-term contracts which make the Yankees better in 2010 while still retaining roster flexibility. It’s a no-brainer as far as I’m concerned.
Abda,
the point is to not have a designated outmaker when we don’t have to.
Good for boston. As Phil says, they’ll probably deal Bucholz, though I could see them keeping him and having Wakefield as the 6th starter/long-reliever considering the injury history of Beckett and Dice-K. Would be a good move to create proven pitching depth, unlike last year.
Now they should sign Beltre for 3B. And frankly, and I’m going to say it, I woulnd’t be surprised if they re-signed Damon.
“Granderson adds more power to Center so that offsets Melky’s lower power numbers. Swish is OK in RF.”
That’s not good enough for me and I hope Cashman secretly feels the same way.
Jerk,
Only thing that worries me about Lackey signing is it frees up Bucholz for a trade. If they sign Lackey then trade for Adrian Gonzalez or something that’d be a pretty great move for Boston
blake
December 14th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
If Lackey signs with Boston then that puts the angels is quite tbe spot doesn’t it..
***************************
I can see the Angels making a big push to get Halladay if Lackey does end up with Boston.
Even if Cameron/Matsui want multi-year deals the most they will get is 2 years which I’d be happy to give them.
You might be – I don’t think that Cashman would feel the same way.
Consider this – you trade for DeJesus, he’s got 1 year ($5 mil) with an option. If you like what you get from him you pick up the relatively cheap option and focus on Jayson Werth for RF; if you don’t like him, you decline the option and put a full court press on Carl Crawford. DeJesus is also a much better option in the 2 spot in the order than Cameron and would allow the Yankees to put Granderson and all his power behind Alex.
And why trade Aceves? For DeJesus? You just weakened our pen!
Aceves is a long reliever who had a good year last season – he can easily be replaced by Chad Gaudin. Beyond that, one of the pair of Hughes and Chamberlain is probably going to be in the pen along with Robertson as the “bridge” to Rivera. Same premise as with Granderson, if I can deal a reliever who isn’t my closer or a potential closer for an everyday player I make that move 10 times out of 10.
“Their only true stud would be Lester.”
True enough, but that would tie them with the number of studs in the Yankees rotation.
Yankees according to link below, has a 2 week window on Damon
before Cashman goes in another direction.
http://www.i-hate-scott-boras.com
If this allows them to trade for AGone or Miggy, it’s bad news.
Chip,
I can already tell you I don’t like Dejesus. He’s not that good. Cameron is far better, as is Damon.
This team is built to win right now, why are you insisting that they target crappy players? It’s really perplexing.
If Lackey signs with the Red Sox and they don’t trade Buchholz then I want the Yankees to have the strongest 1-9 batting order to throw out there against them. The Yankees don’t need a Holliday and Bay to do that, but can get it done with a Damon, Matsui, Cameron or even Nick Johnson. Good hitters all up and down the lineup.
Phil, that makes no sense at all. Moving a regular to a DH role still means moving a lesser player into the lineup and decreases the defense.
Signing Lackey signals the sox won’t resign Beckett.
Erica -
As for my interest in Church – while it has annoyed many – I still believe that he’s a good fit for this team. He’s a solid defensive player in RF, and while the power hasn’t been there throughout his career I believe his HR numbers would increase going from the NL East where he played the majority of his games in Shea, Citi, RFK, and Turner fields to the AL East where he would play his home games in a park that caters to LH hitters.
“This means they can throw Bucholz in a deal for a bat, and I bet they already have one lined up.”
The rumor from a Sox fan is Buccholz becomes part of a package to SD for Gonzalez. Problem is Lowell’s thumb is holding up the trade to Texas and that needs to get done to advance the other pieces since a $12 bench player isn’t Theo’s idea of fiscal responsibility.
Signing LAckey signals the Sox won’t resign Jason Bay and will probably move Laptops and more for a bat.
“If this allows them to trade for AGone or Miggy, it’s bad news.”
No it’s not. It’s an opportunity to beat a really good Red Sox team and that’s how the Yankee organization has to look at it. However, I don’t think the Red Sox are trading Buchholz. He’s not good enough to get AGone or Miggy.
True enough, but that would tie them with the number of studs in the Yankees rotation.
–
Ah but look at the replacements waiting. We have Joba and Hughes who could be growing into studs. Aj and Beckett are about on par depending on health and other factors. Andy Pettitte is reliable.
I would freely match up:
CC – Lester
AJ – Beckett
AP – Lackey
Hughes – DiceK
Joba – Wakefield
That is a marginal advantage by Boston, but we erase that advantage by completely dominating them offensively and now probably defensively.
They’ll end up giving Texas more dough to take Lowell. That’s all the hold up really is.
I don’t know how to spin this as less than bad news for the Yankees; I didn’t really want Lackey, but he’s a very good pitcher and their rotation is much better than ours. Ouch.
I assume the Angels now are desperate for Halladay and will give up what they need to get him; this couldn’t have worked out better for the Jays.
This sucks………and on NYYFans, there is serious speculation (though I think it’s premature) that now the Sox can deal Bucholz to the Pads for Gonzalez. I hate this offseason,lol.
The Yankees do need Halladay IMO……I’m sorry, we’re going to bring in Deutscherer? An AL West pitcher who is mostly valuable because he can start occasionally and has been mainly a reliever?
Lackey is nothing special.
Aside from the children on here going into a panic if he signs with the Red Sox, it doesn’t change much except add a lot of payroll to the Sox for a non-difference maker.
Funniest part, Lackey HATES Fenway.
If they sign another outfielder it would be somebody who represents a significant upgrade over Melky, Gardner and Hoffmann. Ryan Church does not.
“George December 14th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Thanks TampaYank!
Do you get to many “A” Games?
I live in Jacksonville & I travel to Tampa for work so I get in a few games a year. I enjoyed seeing Montero & Romine there early last year.”
would go to some of the Friday games($1 beers and hot dogs) and watch some Rehab starts. I saw Matsui play a few rehab games a few seasons ago, a nice relaxed environment. I really enjoy attending the Spring Training practices before they start playing games, really relaxed atmosphere and you can really interact with the players and coaches….and see the very beginning of marathon that is the season. I got Swisher’s autograph last Spring
If the Lackey to Boston rumor is true then I expect the Angels to pull off a Halladay trade very soon.
This team is built to win right now, why are you insisting that they target crappy players? It’s really perplexing.
I’ll agree with you that Damon is better than DeJesus, but not Cameron.
Cameron has two attractive qualities as a ball player, he hits HRs and plays very good defense. Beyond that compare Cameron and DeJesus:
Batting average: DeJesus > Cameron
OBP: DeJesus > Cameron
K’s: DeJesus Cameron
OPS +: DeJesus = Cameron
Age: DeJesus 7 years younger
Contract: DeJesus 1 year plus an option at 5 mil
And Cashman isn’t about the “quick fix” he’s always been about looking long term.
I like Sheets a lot too. But after Harden got 7.5 Mil guaranteed, i imagine Sheets will command at least that (likely more). I don’t know if the Yanks are looking to spend that much on a “reclamation” project/health risk.
Betsy,
John Lackey signing with the Red Sox is not bad mews for the Yankees.
It’s a panic move, probably pushed by John Henry.
He, Dice-K, and Wakefield will share DL time.
If they deal Buchholz, they have no rotation depth, DL candidates in their rotation, and are still short offensively.
If Lackey goes to Boston the question I have is what, if anything, does that do to the price for Halladay?
I always thought Lackey was overrated, benefiting greatly from playing in a perennially weak division and in perfect weather. Welcome to the NFL Lackey.
Damon is in decline. Move on.
There is no way the Red Sox can just go “Ok. NOW we can trade Bucholz for Adrian Gonzalez”. If the Red Sox were holding onto Clay (who they constantly try to trade or insert into trade rumors to build his nonexistant value) in a potential Adrian deal, then they are morons.
You don’t not get Adrian Gonzalez for Clay Buchholz because of not having Lackey. You don’t just suddenly trade Clay now that they have lackey!
Its more complicated than that. Everyone thought Jed Hoyer would just dump a player to the Sox, but thats forgetting that Jed Hoyer now works for a different organization. He isn’t going to take players whose internal value to the sox he would know.
He knows that Clay isn’t really worth that much anymore. That is why every rumor includes Casey Kelly AND ryan westmoreland.
CD,
Exactly! Something that gets lost in the Lackey to Boston hysteria.
So the Angels trade for Halladay. Big deal. It means they replaced their top pitcher with a top pitcher, and lost one of the arms in the rotation making them weaker overall.
If Boston signs Lackey it doesn’t mean much. They still have problems that would need to be addressed. Catcher is poor defensively, LF, Third or First base.
Buchholz isn’t all that, so he isn’t filling all those need through trades. If the do some signings it means a big bump in their payroll.
“Lackey is nothing special.
Aside from the children on here going into a panic if he signs with the Red Sox, it doesn’t change much except add a lot of payroll to the Sox for a non-difference maker.”
Yesterday, certain Yankee fans were crowing about the Red Sox being no good in 2010 and now, the sky is falling because Lackey is a Red Sox and they can trade Buchholz for a really good hitter. Let it happen first then we’ll see the Yankees reaction while we wait until April to actually start to settle the argument of which team is better in 2010.
“Aside from the children on here going into a panic if he signs with the Red Sox, it doesn’t change much except add a lot of payroll to the Sox for a non-difference maker.”
Same as the Yankees paid for Burnett, who as much a difference maker as Lackey is, is what’s projected. Of course, I thought the Yankees paid far too much for Burnett.
No one should get on Chip for dejesus. He is a really nice player. Maybe not someone the Yankees would target over a guy like Carl Crawford or something everything else being equal, but in this kind of climate he would be a good pickup.
If the Yankees can get sheets for 7.5M then I’m doing that right now..
Erin, the angels won’t have enough of a team left to be competitive even of they do trade for Halladay when you combine what they have already lost plus what they would lose to get Roy.
MY GF just called to say Goldstein at BP, among others, is reporting that Sox offered Chapman 15.5 MM MAJOR LEAGUE deal.
Go to Kevin Goldstein’s twitter – on my way down to Princeton.
Kudos, BTW, to Chad for handling with such swiftness, tact and sensitivity the “issue” on here last night.
Good day, all!
If the Yankees can get sheets for 7.5M then I’m doing that right now..
- I agree. I think we end up with Sheets
CD
December 14th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
I always thought Lackey was overrated, benefiting greatly from playing in a perennially weak division and in perfect weather. Welcome to the NFL Lackey.
*******************
Agreed. I never thought he was anything great.
Chip, forget Church.
Betsy, Lackey does improve boston, but it eliminates them from Halladay contention.
Jerkface, I’d match ace with ace:
CC – Beckett
AJ – Lester
Pettitte – Lackey
Joba – Dice-K
Hughes – Bucholz/Wakefield
Pretty even to me, with a slight edge to boston. But also a bullpen edge to the Yankees.
Lackey to the Sox is not really something to sneeze at.
That’s a pretty talented 1-3.
If it happens?
The “bridge to nowhere” might just begin to lead them somewhere.
I agree with SJ’s suspicions that John Henry made this move. Theo and company always make a big deal when they pursue a player, they can’t help themselves. But this move is coming out of nowhere – there was nothing on anyone’s radar screen saying Boston had the slightest interest in Lackey. So yes, this seems like a John Henry-mid-life-crisis-viagra-trophy-wife move.
We don’t even know if this is rumor is true or not !.
“If Lackey goes to Boston the question I have is what, if anything, does that do to the price for Halladay?”
Another big question is: how will this affect the price for Matt Holliday? If they spend big money on Lackey, and choose to go a cheap route for LF, then one of Holliday’s best big-market landing spots is removed from the equation.
“They’ll end up giving Texas more dough to take Lowell. That’s all the hold up really is.”
There was some question if the Commissioners office would sign off on a salary dump from the Sox now. Writing Texas a bigger check might be tough to get through.
If the Lackey deal goes through this would be one of the most high risk deals Boston has executed.
Lackey has had recurrent arm problems the last two years, including forearm soreness this past season. Forearm soreness of the type Lackey had is a very bad sign because it suggests there is significant inflammation in the elbow. It is often the precursor sign to TJ surgery.
Lackey is a better pitcher than AJ Burnett. But much was made out of AJ’s injury risk – that was the big knock on his contract. Lackey is in many ways a bigger risk for injury now than AJ was a year ago because AJ had already had TJ and recovered. For Lackey this may be coming in the future.
In general – players take physicals after agreeing to terms. That Boston is asking Lackey to take a physical now tells you they are concerned about his arm.
I agree with Phil also – good chance Boston has another deal lined up. I don’t think it’s going to be Adrian Gonzalez. Miguel Cabrera makes much more sense given what’s happenning in Detroit.
Chip, forget Church.
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously though – the good news about Hal and Cash running the show is that there won’t be a corresponding panic move if Lackey signs in Boston. A few years ago you could count on George seeing a deal like this and then giving Boras a call and hammering out a 5 year deal for Damon over lunch.
The question I have is what’s next for Boston? If they follow this up by putting together a package for Adrian Gonzalez then it’s a heck of a winter for them.
Lackey’s a good pitcher who lengthens their rotation and allows them to trade Bucholz to get one of the two bats they need. He’s not nothing. He’s 17% better than average over his career.
Joba and Montero for Halladay
get it done right now
Halladay-Sabathia-Burnett-Pettitte-Hughes
the Yankees have the resources to find an 8th inning man. this should be a no-brainer response to the Lackey deal. I don’t want Matt Holliday simply because they do not NEED him. however, unless they want phil hughes to be their fourth starter and burnett to be their second, they DESPERATELY need a starter.
If BOS shows Lackey the $$$, they better be prepared to show Beckett more when his contract comes up.
One last thing: Lackey gg to Boston means they’re out on Halladay.
They can’t sign him to long-term, re-sign Beckett, and give Halladay a long-term deal.
They didn’t have the horses to land him, anyway, and now his price drops in terms of trades because the Red Sox are out.
Add me to list of people not exactly shaking in my boots that Boston inks Lackey.
Have a good one.
If it’s true, I’m actually happy for boston. Bring it on. I want my team to beat the best competition there is.
Exactly, Laura!
Lackey’s a good pitcher who lengthens their rotation and allows them to trade Bucholz to get one of the two bats they need.
–
If Theo looked at his offense and didn’t trade Buchholz before the Lackey deal, I don’t think signing Lackey makes them an immediate threat to trade him now.
I would bet a dinner that Adrian Gonzalez and Miguel Cabrera are not Red Sox next season.
“Lackey’s a good pitcher who lengthens their rotation and allows them to trade Bucholz to get one of the two bats they need. He’s not nothing. He’s 17% better than average over his career.”
Phil,
That’s where you and I disagree. I don’t think he’s good enough to get either of those two bats you mentioned. Secondly, Miggy isn’t on the trading block here in Michigan. The Tigers did what they had to do last week.
Another big question is: how will this affect the price for Matt Holliday? If they spend big money on Lackey, and choose to go a cheap route for LF, then one of Holliday’s best big-market landing spots is removed from the equation.
The Red Sox still would have enough money to make a play for Holliday. That said, I don’t think they were ever really in on him. I still think there’s some ill will over how the Tex negotiations played out.
Boston has an in-house option to play LF in Jeremy Hermida and could just pick up a RH bat to add to their bench.
I believe it’s still possible Holliday winds up with the Yankees, but as I said before, if he does it’s going to happen much the same way it did with Tex. The Yankees will come in last minute and make an offer that he can either take or leave.
“- I agree. I think we end up with Sheets”
Me three.
craw,
I don’t think he’s good enough either, and it will take more of their overrated prospects to get something done. Still, I’ve seen more amazing things happen than having Red Sox sending subpar packages for players like Schilling and Pedro.
SJ, I see Lester, Beckett, Lackey – that’s awfully formidable. If they keep Bucholz, he’ll be a fine #4 starter…….their rotation is way better than ours.
This seals the deal for Doc to the Angels – they need him and will do anything to get him. Ick..as I said, I hate this off-season.
Cash had better pony up the $$$ for Sheets (assuming he’s healthy). Deutsch is not going to cut it…….and all the other options stink.
the lackey deal
1) i must assume it’s a done deal. if the sox are willing to 5 years, 80mil+, there’s no way the angels match it.
2) let’s agree – the sox getting lackey is much less scary than getting halladay… lackey is not a balance changer.
3) it means the sox are probably out of next year’s SP FA market (though they’ll work hard to resign beckett).
4) i’m positive they’re trading for adrian gonzales. theo has a huge man-crash on him. they will have a serious line up – elsbury, pedroia, v-mart, youk, gonzales, ortiz… nothing to sneeze at.
5) the yanks don’t need to react to such a move. the FA’s you can get next year + trade possibilities (josh johnson, king felix…) next year are much more intriguing than this year.
6) at the end of the day, lackey is the kind of pitcher none of us on this blog were getting to excited about for the yanks to sign. he’s good, but he doesn’t make you salivate… any of us would take cliff lee as an FA after 2010 in a second.
thoughts?
http://www.baseball-reference......p;t=p#site
Lackey in his career at Fenway, for what its worth:
.314/.371/.527/.898 ops
thoughts?
–
Theo might have a huge crush on Gonzalez but Jed Hoyer does not have a huge crush on the prospects he was in charge of when he worked for Boston.
The cost would be formidable.
“If they sign another outfielder it would be somebody who represents a significant upgrade over Melky, Gardner and Hoffmann. Ryan Church does not.”
trade for Josh Willingham. at least he’s not a platoon player like Church.
The sky is falling.
Lackey is 3-7 with a 5.25 ERA in 14 starts at Fenway
gil l. injects a little sanity into the room….
I didn’t really think Halladay was going to the Sox anyway – the fact that he’s not now doesn’t really make me feel any better.
The Jays are in a great spot – I think their price goes up for Halladay. I don’t know what the Phillies are thinking, but the Angels are now desperate and will have to give up this Reckling pitcher, Aybar, Saunders, etc….
“SJ, I see Lester, Beckett, Lackey – that’s awfully formidable. If they keep Bucholz, he’ll be a fine #4 starter…….their rotation is way better than ours.”
Betsy,
You can concede that, but I won’t until I see the final rosters and then it’s only paper champions until next October.
“SJ, I see Lester, Beckett, Lackey – that’s awfully formidable. If they keep Bucholz, he’ll be a fine #4 starter…….their rotation is way better than ours.”
Way better would seem a stretch to me. Certainly makes ‘em more comparable. Still would wonder about the depth if this were a precursor to moving Buchholtz.
“If BOS shows Lackey the $$$, they better be prepared to show Beckett more when his contract comes up.”
I wonder if they’d just let him walk. If Buccholz shows progress this year, I’d gladly take the two picks for Beckett. They were smart to sign him to a very reasonable contract (after he had an awful first year with the Sox) – they got their money’s worth, and then some.
if the red sox give lackey 5/90 (ish), what will they have to give beckett? cc money?
We all need to calm down !.
Once we inject Damon / Matsui…. and Sheets we’ll be sitting pretty !
Lackey taking a physical for the Saaawwks??? that a normal part of negotiation?
Lackey in his career at Fenway, for what its worth
It’s not worth much considering he was pitching against the Red Sox lineup when he pitched in Fenway.
John Lackey is a good & better than average pitcher who will be overpriced in this market……Make no mistake, he’s a good pitcher…..He is better than AJ due to his consistancy ( when healthy )
This Yankee team as currently constituted would take the Red Sox as currently constituted to the woodshed in a 1000 game simulation. I’ll be worried only if they manage to get 2 big bats which isn’t happening.
clay bucholtz for adrian gonzales a no-go? really?
theo seems to constantly get strange discounts from other GM’s, perhaps he gets them drunk, or high, or both.
curt schilling for casey fossum??? really???
jason bay for… who exactly???
if they want gonzales for bucholtz – they get him.
“I wonder if they’d just let him walk. ”
I doubt it, vin. Unless they think they can get Halladay when he’s a FA next year.
Did anyone see Ken Rosenthal’s scheme for a 4 team trade that would land Halladay in Philly, and trade Lee to another team?
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....ould-work-
Intriguing, but probably would never happen.
If Lackey goes to Boston, how does that make it more likely that Halladay becomes an Angel? The Angels might want him more if that is the case, but why would he want to go there? If I am Halladay, I am looking at LA and seeing a team no better than the team I am already on. They will have lost 40% of their rotation from last year, Arredondo is out, Figgins and Vlad are gone; and Aybar, Saunders, and Napoli would probably be gone in the trade.
As far as I can see, Lackey going to Boston crosses Boston AND LA off of the teams on Halladay’s trade list.
It’s not worth much considering he was pitching against the Red Sox lineup when he pitched in Fenway.
—
yea, now he is facing the Yankees in Fenway >:)
Gil,
Those were different situations…salary dumps. Gonzales is at a very reasonable salary and SD has no real reason to trade him right now.
Yeah, chicken – and Lackey was facing the Sox in Fenway. He won’t be doing that anymore.
We’ve got CC, AJ (now no one likes AJ as much as I do……most people consider him a mediocre to poor starter. I don’t, but it doesn’t matter what I think for now), an aging Pettitte who we have no idea if he can do what he did last year and two complete question marks in Phil and Joba. This is reality, not whining. How is this rotation that good?
One more thing, if the Angels are allowing the Red Sox to get Lackey then that tells me they think the Red Sox are overpaying for a pitcher with questionable health concerns.
#RedSox close in on Lackey w physical, perhaps 5-yr deal, Burnett ($82M) money: 2 very plugged-in reporters @ed_price @Ken_Rosenthal #mlb
2 minutes ago from web
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The RS rotation is not way better. It’s not necessarily even better. It’s about equal.
By the way – if a corresponding move to this for Boston is that they deal for DeJesus and he tortures the Yankees I’m gonna smack some of you people around
The Yankees won’t make another move until after the window on Damon closes in two weeks.
It’s possible that sometime around Christmas we find out that the Yankee lineup is: Jeter, Granderson, Tex, Alex, Holliday, Posada, Cano, Swisher, Melky and the rotation is CC, AJ, Andy, Sheets, Joba/Hughes.
If BOS shows Lackey the $$$, they better be prepared to show Beckett more when his contract comes up.
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Thats right…and then, in a couple of years they will have to show Lester the $$$. I had thought one of the reasons they wanted to keep Bucholz was because he would help them keep their payroll down. If they sign Lackey and then trade Bucholz for a high priced hitter then it will set up a series of dominos that, when they fall, will leave them financially strapped within a few years.
I cannot wait for the first time Youk or lil’ Dusty makes an error and Lackey shows them up.
I think if Lackey signs with the socks it sets off a chain reaction of sorts
I think we would quickly see Bay sign with the Mets or Seattle or maybe even anaheim soon after, you will probably see a trade for a bat from Boston (god i hope they can’t land Gonzalez…that prospect scares the bejesus out of me and I think they are crazy for not pulling the trigger on it yet). With bay gone I think Holliday’s market picks up and a lot of these lower end guys start getting snatched up by the losers for the big names.
I think the Yanks would be smart to pull the trigger on Sheets now and then see what happens from there.
If Lackey signs with boston, I don’t think it more likely that Halladay goes to the Angels due to their depleted chances at winning. In fact, it probably increases the chance of him going to the Yankees, while removing more leverage from the BJ’s GM, as the number of suitable suitors has potentially decreased.
I see lower level prospects being lined up already.
Of course there’s always the Phillies in a win-now scenario.
Can we stop with the Dejesus talk.
Really, no one outside of the Yankee lohud blog comment section is mentioning that name in connection with the Yankees.
No one needs to worry about that.
“If Lackey goes to Boston the question I have is what, if anything, does that do to the price for Halladay?”
Doubt it diminishes what the Angels would be willing to offer.
Lackey makes the Red Sox in 2009 a slightly better team than the Red Sox in 2008.
Lackey probably makes the Red Sox worse from 2010 on
I think people asking other people to stop talking about things is fair, but only if the non-stathead people stop talking about how good Melky is or about batting average and RBIs. Or we could all just talk about whatever we want, including things that make sense for the Yankees.
Craw, if you look at the rotations now, how would you say that the Sox don’t have a much better one? If you want to wait until April to judge, that’s fine, but who are we going to add? Sheets? Maybe, but that’s hardly a given. Who is out there besides Sheets that can have a really positive effect on our rotation?
Where are the Mets in all this ! talk about needing Pitching ! .. goodness !
“Lackey makes the Red Sox in 2009 a slightly better team than the Red Sox in 2008.”
It might make their starting staff better, but I’m not so sure about being a better team.
DaSaint007
With Swisher we have an average defender, an above average arm, below average bat, and below average speed.
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I think I have realized what separates the posters on this board that have no freaking clue from people who do. This comment is it. For the many posters that think Swisher is below average or even average you have no clue about baseball on so many levels.
Blue Jays get screwed again with the draft pick compensation LOL. Instead of getting Boston’s first round pick for losing Scutaro, they’ll be getting Boston’s second round pick if Lackey signs with Boston.
“It’s not worth much considering he was pitching against the Red Sox lineup when he pitched in Fenway.”
Hence the “for what its worth” disclaimer. However, those aren’t pretty numbers.
For comparison against other top notch offenses:
Yankee stadium:
.290/.354/.454/.808
Ballpark in Arlington:
.297/.365/.467/.832
Plus, he’s tougher on righties than lefties, but not by much. He’s a good pitcher, no doubt; but he hasn’t been great in Fenway.
Then again, this rumor comes from Ken Rosenthal, so I am unsure how much to believe just yet.
Knowing him, it could be he miscontrued a conversation where he actually heard that Lackey was putting on his socks to go do some physical training.
we might as well forfeit the season, boston got whatzhisname.
The RS rotation is not way better. It’s not necessarily even better. It’s about equal.
I think now we’re underselling Lackey a bit. He’s a very solid pitcher who has anchored a rotation for a team that is always in the playoffs. Is he on the same level as CC or Johan or Halladay? No, of course not. But he’s certainly good enough to be a number one on most teams and for the Sox he’ll be a number three.
Again, let’s see what Boston does from here. If they stand pat after this then I would say that there are still plenty of question marks that need to be addressed. If though they are able to unload Mike Lowell, and maybe use Bucholtz to add another bat (Adam Dunn?) then things could get a little tense.
Mike RI
December 14th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Where are the Mets in all this ! talk about needing Pitching ! .. goodness !
************************
LOL
“Craw, if you look at the rotations now, how would you say that the Sox don’t have a much better one? If you want to wait until April to judge, that’s fine, but who are we going to add? Sheets? Maybe, but that’s hardly a given. Who is out there besides Sheets that can have a really positive effect on our rotation?”
Because I’m not a reactionary like you. I need to see all the cards before I start screaming about the Red Sox being better than the Yankees.
Rob Neyer of ESPN says sawx don’t normally like 5 yr contracts. He uses Bay’s hold out as proof. Lackey will want AJ money according to his thread.
http://www.espn.go.com/blog/sw.....ing-lackey
I think people asking other people to stop talking about things is fair, but only if the non-stathead people stop talking about how good Melky is or about batting average and RBIs. Or we could all just talk about whatever we want, including things that make sense for the Yankees.
—–
I’m just saying, people are harping on this like it a hot stove rumor when it’s nothing more then a name pulled basically out of nowhere that has no connection to the Yanks.
Lets speculate on things that are actually worth speculating on.
Or if you want to do that lets go:
Hey, I don’t get why the Yankees just don’t go after Pujols and Lincecum in a trade. That solves DH and pitching. Perfect.
“How is this rotation that good?”
You mean the rotation that just won the World Series? Yeah, I see what you mean Betsy. They stink.
there’s a whole lotta faith in the oft-(and currently)injjured sheets around here.
Or we could all just talk about whatever we want, including things that make sense for the Yankees
Agreed – you can keep asking for Milton Bradley, I can keep asking for David DeJesus and Patrick can keep asking for Mike Cameron…that’s the beauty of these boards.
If Boston signs Lackey, it could mean they are forgoing Beltre at 3B and instead will sign a Molina or someone cheap…and keep V MArt at 1B and Youk at 3B.
But still a glaring hole in LF…
Dejesus is not Albert Pujols. He isn’t a franchise corner stone and has been linked to the Yankees in the past as well as other trade rumors.
The Royals are a non-contending team that is trying to build a team, despite their dumbo GM. It makes Dejesus a target.
Hey, I don’t get why the Yankees just don’t go after Pujols and Lincecum in a trade. That solves DH and pitching. Perfect.
Sounds good to me.
this move is soooo outta left field, gammons (Tokyo Rose) didn’t even flog it before leaving espn.
“Agreed – you can keep asking for Milton Bradley, I can keep asking for David DeJesus and Patrick can keep asking for Mike Cameron…that’s the beauty of these boards.”
It’s only beauty for those who aren’t tired of reading those posts.
Let’s go yankees. Try reading down a few lines. It was a typo on my part. Lighten up buddy.
mmmm yes…co many Dejesus rumors
like this gem
http://waswatching.com/2009/12.....gil-meche/
It’s only beauty for those who aren’t tired of reading those posts.
—
There is something slightly beautiful to the rain man-esque way in which Chip can find a trade or free agent acquisition for a player I’d consider spare parts.
“I doubt it, vin. Unless they think they can get Halladay when he’s a FA next year.”
If Buccholz pitches like they feel he’s capable of, then I don’t see them signing another pitcher to a 17+ million/year deal. Remember, they’re still paying Dice-K 10 million until 2012, Jon Lester starts making some big bucks in 2013 and 2014.
They already got Beckett’s peak years. They traded a ton of talent for him, but he won them a WS, so it was worthwhile. They were smart enough to sign him for cheap after an awful year. My hunch is that he walks after 2010.
The Royals are a non-contending team that is trying to build a team, despite their dumbo GM. It makes Dejesus a target.
Just for that Jerkface I give you this:
Chicago gets: Brett Gardner, Nick Swisher, Kei Igawa
NYY gets: Milton Bradley, Fukudome
Seems to me that the their are a couple of logical moves out there. If we sign Matsui we have more than made up for the hitting we lost with Damon. We can lose Damon. With the money saved we can easily sign Sheets or go the cheaper route and sign the guy from Oakland. If we go the cheaper route then we have the money to take on Holliday. Or we have both the players and money to trade for Roy Halladay and sign him to an extension. By signing Sheets or Dushserer we make one of Joba/Hughes redundant. There are a lot of moves to be made. We can give the Jays a really good package for Halladay without Montero. The Angels have to strip their team to do the same. I’m surprised they are prepared to let Lackey go as well as Figgins. We still have options. Does Boston?
“If Boston signs Lackey, it could mean they are forgoing Beltre at 3B and instead will sign a Molina or someone cheap…and keep V MArt at 1B and Youk at 3B.”
They still haven’t unloaded Lowell yet. The more this thing drags on, the more I have feeling Texas is trying to back away from it. Boston may be stuck with him.
Hopefully they have to put Youkilis in left, Lowell third, V-mart first. Either way, even with Vmart/Varitek catching, they don’t have a good answer at that position.
Chicago gets: Brett Gardner, Nick Swisher, Kei Igawa
NYY gets: Milton Bradley, Fukudome
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I might do that. Fukudome has a good arm and is a gold glove defender in RF.
The Sox are going to try to get better. Yankee fans shouldn’t be particularly worried about that in any way. It’s the Sox that have the gap to make up.
And if they do sign Lackey there’s a real positive for the Yanks – they are not going to trade for Halladay. That’s the big picture story here.
The Sox still have huge holes at LF and 3b. They aren’t going to be able to devote more resources (whether it’s talent or money) to their rotation.
So Lackey signing means that Halladay isn’t going to happen (though that wasn’t a high likelihood at baseline).
Lackey signing also probably decreases the Angels chances of getting Halladay – the angels team looks lost right now and I don’t see Halladay signing an extension there. And reportedly the Angels won’t trade him unless he signs an extension.
As such, this might make it more likely for Halladay to wind up in the NL.
“My hunch is that he walks after 2010.”
That will be interesting to see. I hope he does walk…as long as he doesn’t become a Yankee. I hate Beckett. Always have, always will.
From the link provided by Nick:
DeJesus, 30, had the fourth highest OPS in the American League out of the leadoff spot last season, trailing only the Yankees’ Derek Jeter, Rays’ Jason Bartlett and Mariners’ Ichiro Suzuki.
Can someone tell me how that qualifies him as a spare part? Would I deal Joba and Melancon for him and Meche as suggested in the rest of that post? Not on your life. But would I make a deal for him (or him and Meche) absolutely. I would much rather have Gil Meche than Ben Sheets for the simple fact that Meche stays healthy and has a reasonable contract.
Wow. Lots of stuff going on.
Lackey on the Sox makes them much better.
Could be the domino that starts the chain reaction.
1. Lackey to Sox
2. Yankees and Angels duking it out for Halladay (and daaaa Yankeeeeess wiiinnnn!!!)
3. Bay to Angels (or mariners)
4. Cabrera (not melky) to the Red Sox (eat up some more salary please), but do they reallly need yet another 1B/DH type?
5. Holliday to St. Louis once Bay settles in someplace
6. Braves will eat salary to move Lowe (Halladay loser from #2 to get Lowe)
7. Hideki signs with Yankees after they get a veteran pitcher.
8. Yankees sign a LF for a 1 yr. deal in anticipation of the Rays falling off the map and trading Carl Crawford to the Yankees for 6 relievers!
You won’t see any situation where the Phillies move Lee. That was a stupid scenario by Rosenthal.
Grande is Granderson’s new nickname.
5.
“I might do that. Fukudome has a good arm and is a gold glove defender in RF.”
But he can’t hit. Don’t we already have an OF with that condition?
Lowell, according to Peter Gammons, may need thumb surgery.
http://www.boston.com/sports/b....._need.html
Can someone tell me how that qualifies him as a spare part? Would I deal Joba and Melancon for him and Meche as suggested in the rest of that post? Not on your life. But would I make a deal for him (or him and Meche) absolutely. I would much rather have Gil Meche than Ben Sheets for the simple fact that Meche stays healthy and has a reasonable contract.
==
I don’t qualify Dejesus as a spare part, he is a solid regular. But come on, dude, you build alot of scenarios for spare part players
DaSaint007
December 14th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Let’s go yankees. Try reading down a few lines. It was a typo on my part. Lighten up buddy.
——————-
I’m sorry. It gets annoying when people come on here everyday saying something so obviously wrong. People are entitled to their opinions but it is not a question that Swisher is a very good baseball player
I REALLY wish the Yankees would have offered Damon arbitration. NO freaking way he accepts it with his current ridiculous 4 year demands and the Yanks coulda used the picks.
You know who would be a perfect fit for the Yanks at DH…Ryan Howard…lets send some spare parts to philly for him. That should be enough.
CB, I agree with you for the most part. Or it could mean that the Yankees are another option, but it has probably decreased the candidate teams regardless. That’s just my opinion of course. I’m not an expert like some part-time GM’s here, just a Yankee baseball fan.
Swisher May not be “all that”, but IMHO he is a very important piece of this club. He is a ballplayer. He plays with intensity, he gets on base and helps make the engine hum.
If we get another OF maybe he plays less field & DH’s a bit, but I want him in the clubhouse as he has the kind of fire and spirit this team needs. Unless it’s a major upgrade keep Swish where he’s at. He was a blessing last year when Nady went down. ….Speaking of Nady, if he’s healthy I think he’s a contender for the outfield/DH
“Where are the Mets in all this ! talk about needing Pitching ! .. goodness !”
The Mets don’t need pitching… they need a miracle!
Actually, they really do need cheap, quality pitching.
They have quite a bit of cash coming off the books after 2011:
Beltran 18.5 mil
Perez 12 mil
Castillo 6 mil
Problem is their farm system is barren (from what I hear) and they have a bunch of holes to fill.
Cash now has no choice but to trade Joba for Halladay
Keep Hughes and keep Montero. But Joba has to go.
We can’t throw CC-AJ-Andy-Hughes-Joba vs. Beckett-Lackey-Lester-DiceK-Buchholz
If Cash thinks that rotation is going to beat the Sox, he is kidding himself.
But he can’t hit. Don’t we already have an OF with that condition?
—
my name’s fukudome you may have seen my HUGE ON BASE PERCENTAGE!
.259 .375 .421 .796 , not as good a replacement for Swisher, but replacing Swisher with Bradley and then Melky with Fukudome is a good upgrade. We’d still need a LFer though.
Fukudome walks nearly as much as he strikes out. He just lacks Swisher’s power and hits for a better average. He is also a lefty.
The way I see it, is if the Sawx land Lackey good for them. With Lackey in the fold, that would lead one to believe that Bay is out and with the imminent trade of Lowell, does anyone fear that lineup????
One of the biggest problems the Sawx had last year was scoring runs and getting rid of the middle of your lineup isn’t what you would think Theo would do…unless you think Lars Anderson is the next big thing and he will be up next year?
If Cash thinks that rotation is going to beat the Sox, he is kidding himself.
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He would be, because its our lineup and defense that is going to beat the Sox.
No prob, lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins).
It’s interesting to see the range of people’s opinions and have them countered and discussed. I’m sure the same is happening with Yankee brass, just with more data, film, and input than we have, as well as much more time. After all, we are all supposed to be at work, right?
lowell isnt a bad player he just has a bad contract. the sox want out of his contract but if they dont and he stays, its just a matter of him staying healthy for that to become the non-move of the offseason. as far as im concerned, i want to see lowell leave boston before he shows that he’s healthy and they change thier minds. his surgery was a year ago now, last year even with all the time missed, he still had 75 rbis (in 119 games) and an .810 OPS.
I want to see b/r sign a lengthy contract.I’ll believe it when it happens!! They have many holes to fill.
One thing I like to look at as a wild card in any potential FA or trade, is Kevin Long. We know he is a good batting coach, who is able to dissect a player’s stance and find flaws and work with them to correct it, but how good is he really? That could be a difference maker.
I don’t see Sheets signing for 7.5. Penny got 7.5…
Sox are not the little engine that could.
They could Sign Lackey and still trade for A-Gonz, sign Beltre for 3rd, and go for a cheap guy like Cameron in LF.
Sox can afford to make all those moves and still keep their payroll in the $150-$160 million dollar range.
They spent $100 million on DiceK, $70 million on Drew, $12 million on Lugo all in one off-season a couple yrs ago. They can afford to do just about anything.
“I don’t see Sheets signing for 7.5. Penny got 7.5…”
Exactly. Sheets won’t get less than 10 on a 1 year deal. Maybe he can be had for 2/18, but the Penny and Harden signings have helped him out big time.
Nothing anyone else does has any impact on the Halladay price tag or anything else because Halladay may not agree to go to most/all the teams that might have an interest. There can only be a bidding war if multiple teams have a shot at the prize which may not be the case.
That said, I’m surprised so many of you cheerleaders are so quick to downplay the addition of Lackey. If Boston adds him they have a better, more reliable top three than the Yankees do. Sure there’s a risk there, but life is risky. Lackey is a horse and a competitor and while I don’t think he’s worth $ 16 Million a year he is a major addition.
Phil Hughes will be a decent starter this year.
All the kid has done is improve with every opportunity.
This past seasons work in the pen will only help, & he has way more tools than Joba. Aceves is another who has done nothing but earn a shot at the rotation. A deal for another starter is very likely, but if we have to go into the season with CC/AJ/Andy/Phil/ and then one of Aceves/Mitre/Joba as a 5th I wouldn’t panic.
“That said, I’m surprised so many of you cheerleaders are so quick to downplay the addition of Lackey.”
Because some of us realize you have to play the game on the field not on paper.
Exactly. Sheets won’t get less than 10 on a 1 year deal. Maybe he can be had for 2/18, but the Penny and Harden signings have helped him out big time.
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I disagree. Sheets did not even pitch last year, what makes you think he is going to get a large contract coming off major injury and rehab?
Penny pitched 170 innings and Harden was around 150.
Chip,
I just want to clarify that I don’t think Dejesus is a bad option for the Yanks. I quite agree with you that, especially with the Royals checking in on Gardner, Dejesus could be a good piece for the Yanks.
I just don’t see anyone mentioning him as an option for the Yanks and therefore until I start seeing some legit rumors pop up, Dejesus might as well be Pujols in terms of relation to the Yanks.
That said, I’m surprised so many of you cheerleaders are so quick to downplay the addition of Lackey. If Boston adds him they have a better, more reliable top three than the Yankees do. Sure there’s a risk there, but life is risky. Lackey is a horse and a competitor and while I don’t think he’s worth $ 16 Million a year he is a major addition.
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I’d say CC and Andy Pettitte are fairly reliable. AJ and Beckett are both injury prone. Its a good move but its nothing to panic over. They still don’t have the Yankees offense or defense at this point.
sheets will get a contract that will pay him $10M only if he is healthy. he’ll probably get a base of about $6M with incentives that would push him up over $10M if he’s healthy. the make-good part of the contract limits your risk somewhat, but you’re not signing a guy based on him not being good, so if you want him and think he will help, you have to assume he’s going to cost you $10M or more.
I just want to clarify that I don’t think Dejesus is a bad option for the Yanks. I quite agree with you that, especially with the Royals checking in on Gardner, Dejesus could be a good piece for the Yanks.
I just don’t see anyone mentioning him as an option for the Yanks and therefore until I start seeing some legit rumors pop up, Dejesus might as well be Pujols in terms of relation to the Yanks.
–
That is being a wet blanket, because in that case we might as well just discuss Damon and Ben Sheets. Those are the only guys mentioned as being potential Yankees. Or Nick Johnson I guess.
Dejesus is supposedly on the block, that makes him a target, that makes him fair game, and half the fun of being an armchair GM is trying to come up with trade’s you’d do even for players not necessarily on the block.
Of course no one wants to read ‘my dumb list of prospects for albert pujols’, but I think discussing guys like Dejesus is fair game.
Very few teams end the season with the rotation they started with, so the Lackey signing is no need for a panic move.
I like what we have with our 1-3 horses and the depth we have for 4-5 slots. I believe this is the breakout year for Hughes.
We have quality pitching depth in the system now and have the luxury of being able to have leverage when making a move. (Unlike the poor Mets)
If I were a betting man I’d say Cashman pulls off a deal for at least one other starter.
personally i think joba/phil could be fine at 4/5, look around, not alot of world-beaters in those slots around the league and you can always get someone else at the trade deadline. but i like even more, the idea of making phil and (especially) joba compete for one spot. in the end, they will both start alot of games and phils innings limits have to be dealt with, but handing them rotation spots w/o any real competition hasnt produced great results to this point.
What the hell is going on here? I think the Yanks should not sign any other free agent and close shop for the 2010 season. Being that Lackey will FOR SURE be the next Cy Young and get yet another championship for the sox. Folks im sure Cashman has already come up with a counter move(even though he was sitting in a much more relaxed position this offseason vs. last). The winter is not over and as long as there is days left. You can count on stealth landing us the best possible team to compete. Left/dh and a starting pitcher will be signed.
What do you guys think about trading for Cabrera for dh?
I was just looking at the depth chart and I think we need one more bat off the bench that can also back up Alex at 3rd.
I like having Ramiro Pena as the backup to Jeter & Cano. I remember him going back to the minors last year & learning the OF too. I like Cervelli as the backup to Posada.
The team is shaping up good. Cant wait to see what Mr. Cashman gets us for Christmas.
The Sox may have just uped the Ante.
Do we pass, match, or raise.
IMO we need to at least match if not raise them.
They bet us a Lackey. I say we at least call them with a Sheets, or raise them with a Halladay.
I would not let them get Chapman w/o a fight either.
We should also continue to raise them on Offense/Defense otherwise we risk falling behind in the overall balance of power.
JMTC.
remember Hughes before he got bumped to the bullpen after Wang attempted another comeback? He was a good starter….maybe Cash thinks he can get that from him for a full season
Looks like Matsui is gone!
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....atsui.html