What kind of day has it been?
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Dec 15, 2009 
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After the flurry of moves in baseball yesterday, there were plenty – like, PLENTY – of Yankees fans who were angry. Livid. Apoplectic. They saw Boston making moves, they saw players signing and they saw the Yankees having a relatively quiet December day and it made them seethe. What was Brian Cashman doing? Why was he just sitting back as the Yankees did nothing?
Here’s the thing: I get that. It makes sense. I’m just not so sure all the moves that went down yesterday really hurt the Yankees all that much. Let’s take a look at them, one-by-one, and decide whether they hurt, helped or were a relative push.
• John Lackey signs with the Red Sox. OK, sure. No doubt Lackey is a stud and a solid addition. But the Yankees shelled out bucks for CC Sabathia last winter and, while I’d probably take Lackey over A.J. Burnett at about the same money, it’s at least debatable. Beyond that, let’s compare the rotations as they stand right now:
Top three: CC, AJ, Pettitte vs. Beckett, Lester, Lackey? Give the Sox a slight edge if you’re being fair.
Bottom two: Joba, Hughes vs. Dice-K, Bucholz? Call it even, mostly because, but Dice-K might be less of a certainty than even Joba. It’s also worth noting that the “swing-man” on both teams: Aceves vs. Wakefield might actually favor the Yankees.
Then there’s this: Is the Sox adding Lackey a good move? For sure. But it was a move they almost HAD to make given the state of their rotation and the state of the Yankees. It was their response to what the Yankees did a year ago and in the end, the Yankees were never really going to be players for Lackey anyway.
VERDICT: Call it a HURT for the Yankees, but not as much as it might seem. Given what happened a year ago, this was a virtual certainty.
• Roy Halladay traded to Phillies. This is the second part of what makes the Lackey situation more of a positive than it might first seem for the Yankees. Halladay was the one pitcher the Yankees didn’t want to see end up in Boston. By going to Philly, Halladay is a) no longer a threat to go to the Yankees’ biggest rival; and b) not even in the same league anymore.
Could the Yankees have been in on Halladay? I would have been willing to part with prospects plus money, but the Yankees always felt like the Blue Jays were asking for a premium from AL East teams and Brian Cashman just didn’t want to pay twice. Bottom line, if Halladay wasn’t coming to the Bronx, going to a team that wasn’t Boston and wasn’t in the AL was about as good as the Yankees could have hoped for.
VERDICT: Call it a HELP (and, by the way, look out for the Mariners – they’re making serious moves).
• Hideki Matsui signs with Angels; Mike Cameron signs with Boston. I put these together because they are two parts of similar situations for the Yankees and Red Sox. So far this offseason, the Yankees have lost Matsui (who seems set to go to L.A.) but brought in Curtis Granderson; the Red Sox have (almost surely) lost Jason Bay and brought in Mike Cameron.
Which gain/loss would you rather have?
Now sure, the Yankees technically have lost Johnny Damon, too, but the Matsui deal is now a further incentive for the Yankees to work out an agreement with Damon (which I believe they will do). Matsui, while a fantastic Yankee, just wasn’t a fit as a DH-only in 2010, while Damon – or anyone who could play the field occasionally – offers more flexibility.
Cameron is someone the Yankees did talk about but he wasn’t a great fit either. The Red Sox may well use him in left field – a position he’s hardly ever played and is particularly tough at Fenway – and the Yankees would have likely stuck him in left, too, neutralizing some of his defensive prowess.
VERDICT: PUSH
So, in summary, we’ve got one hurt, one help and one push. Was it a busy day yesterday? Sure. Would it have been nice for Yankees fans to see some Yankees news? Sure. But don’t forget that a week ago (with Granderson) and a year ago (with CC and AJ), the Yankees were doing plenty. Their holes, such as they are, remain smaller than most teams (hello, Mets) and there is still a ton of time left before spring training.
What kind of day has it been for the Yankees? Maybe not as bad as it first seemed.
It wasn’t a bad day for the Yankees as I think Cashman and the Steinbrenners are playing possum.
How about losing Matsui for half his salary at one year?
Sam, the voice of reason. I love how all the bridge jumpers come out after Boston makes a couple of moves, no matter what they are. WHy bother to even play out next season. Its already been determined that the Yanks now have no chance whatsoever.
Thank you Sam, I totally agree
Sam,
According to some posters who shall remain nameless it was a TERRIBLE day for the Yankees.
Black Monday is what they’re calling it actually
One poster even said numerous times that the Sox rotation is now MUCH better than the Yankees.
So stop it with your rational thinking, okay?
Good points Sam. I wonder why the Angels never really seemed like serious players for Lackey. Did they have questions/concerns about his health?
Said it a couple of times yesterday but Lackey has pitched 160 and 170 innings the past two years.
That isn’t worth 17 million IMO.
Great post, Sam. Always great to have a voice of reason
Sorry, but on what planet is Joba a better starter than Dice-K?
Neil:
agree. Others miss the point on Nick Johnson, and complain he has lost power. However, that’s never been his game. Nick Johnson is a doubles, and on base machine. He would make a fine #2 hitter in this lineup. And if need be he could also offer Alex protection at #5
“How about losing Matsui for half his salary at one year?”
Cashman was saying goodbye to him the day after the parade.
Yankee fans need to get it through their heads that if Cashman wanted Matsui back, he could have easily signed him instead of the Angels.
Love the West Wing reference
wangchung, we didn’t lose matsui for half his salary for 1 year. he hasn’t been earning the salary we were paying him for the last 2, and if the Yankees would have offered him a deal that low it would have been “insulting”. we “lost” matsui in november when his contract was up, but it was for no amount of money or years.
his options were retire, or sign elsewhere.
Fran (the original) and OPPC member
December 15th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Good points Sam. I wonder why the Angels never really seemed like serious players for Lackey. Did they have questions/concerns about his health?
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Fran, I was thinking the same thing. You have to wonder if they know something that others don’t. It just seems strange that they made virtually no effort to keep him.
I dont care about lackey. Yeah he has a great curveball, pretty good 2 seamer, and a mediocre fastball, but his velocity is decreasing, and he has the injury bug what, 2 straight years now on the same arm? Im only unhappy about losing Matsui. Not sure we need a rotating DH and matsui is one of the better hitters in the game. On the occational days someone needs to DH matsui can just sit and put in 1 bed-mediocre hitter in cervellie,pena, gardner, etc. Its still better than most lineups. OR just keep matsui in and give a whole day off to somone. I just dont really get it. Also people who worry about his knees DHing, he is much further away from the main injury and fielding most days, so I would think they wouldnt need to be drained so much…
the lackey and cameron signings were huge poitives. As it means neither will be with the yankees in 2010
@HSILVERM11375
December 15th, 2009 at 10:38 am
Love the West Wing reference
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Me too
“He would make a fine #2 hitter in this lineup. And if need be he could also offer Alex protection at #5″
He’s not a fine #2 hitter because he’s too slow.
Dudes, the planet where Joba is a 23yr old high upside prospect and dice-k is another japanese walkathon disaster?
Yankees could still get Holliday, but I think that might preclude getting a pitcher like Sheets. I’m assuming the Yankees are at about $193.5M right now ($170M plus $17.5 for Pettitte and Granderson, $3M Joba, Hughes, Aceves, Robertson, Cervelli, & Gardner, $3M for Melky). Gaudin’s an arb case too, right? He could be another $3M. Seems to me it’s either add Holliday or add Damon & a Sheets/Bedard type. Either way they’d be scratching $210M, even with some bonus misdirection.
Erin, we all know something they don’t… but everyone seems to be willing to completely ignore Matsui’s knee problems around here because he had one season where he ONLY had them drained 3 times.
Buster_ESPN Sentiment within some corners of NYY organization is that TOR got less talent than what they would’ve required from the Yankees in a deal.
half a minute ago from web
“He’s not a fine #2 hitter because he’s too slow”
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crawdaddy: i said fine, not perfect
It wasn’t a bad day for the Yankees as I think Cashman and the Steinbrenners are playing possum.
Playing possum? The Yankees had their big day a week ago when they added Granderson and brought back Andy.
They will likely add one more pitcher, one more OF and that’s it. I don’t see some big December Surprise coming here like with Tex last year. I thought maybe Matt Holliday but if he’s off the table then they’ll go conventional, likely bring back Damon and add Sheets to the back of the rotation.
The PedSux did some nice things for themselves and good for them. The Yankees have some minor holes to fill, but overall, I’m not worried about the Yankees at all for next season.I would like to see Damon back, and very sorry to see Matsui leave, but I think the Yankees will easily make the playoffs.
Chip,
We’ll see……
The Yanks have to make two moves to help balance some areas.
Need for a an innings kind of guy, B level [pitcher, fourth starter type. Jason Marquis. I’m not interested in Sheets or others who are a gamble..if they do that then why not keep Wang? Second we need a durable left fielder who can hit. Looks like it will be tough to match the Holliday offer from St Louis if reports are correct. I’m okay with Damon or Bay or both for that matter. I think the Yanks have at least $30 million to spend and stilll keep around $200mill..
“Buster_ESPN Sentiment within some corners of NYY organization is that TOR got less talent than what they would’ve required from the Yankees in a deal.
half a minute ago from web”
Would seem the Jays philosophy of asking more from AL East rivals hadn’t changed much since late July. I don’t blame them.
how is jason marquis any less of a gamble than sheet/duchs? at least they “could” be good, rather than certainly being below average.
Tom, you’re right. I love Sui and wish him the best, but there’s no telling how those knees are going to hold up with him playing the outfield.
BTW, I think everyone ignores him getting his knees drained this season because every time he did he went on a crazy hitting streak
Great post, Sam. I did a pitcher comparison a few threads ago and my results were very similar to yours (I gave the slight edge to the Yankees, but I’m sure that’s the fan in me talking). Yesterday wasn’t a bad day for the Yankees; it was simply an uneventful one. Our moves will be made at some point and we’ll all debate them ad nauseum like we do everything else. No biggie.
As aside, I understand the frustration that many of you have here with Betsy. I don’t agree with most of what she says either. However, I don’t think it’s fair to gang up on her just because her views are different. This blog is for all of us to post how we feel about the Yankees. She shouldn’t be made to feel that she can’t post here just because her opinions differ from everyone else’s. She’s not a troll. She’s just a Yankees fan that’s a bit more skeptical of our chances than the rest of us. Just my opinion.
“I think the Yanks have at least $30 million to spend and stilll keep around $200mill..”
They spend $30M more, they are up around $220M
and i believe the yankees will still sign wang when he shows he is healthy in may.
Erin,
We knew that the Yankees were leery of signing Matsui because of his knees. The Angels never said anything but I still wonder why they did not even make Lackey an offer.
Great post, Sam. Sometimes I’m sad to be a Yankees fan because we collectively seem so entitled. The Sox got better yesterday, to be sure, but only along the lines of now our rotations are more equal, and our offense is still much better. The Doc deal was really the best we could’ve hoped for, so that’s fine too. Our team is still a force to be reckoned with, and there’s still time for something else to happen.
I’m sad about Hideki, of course, but he’ll always have 2009 with us. What a great player and an awesome guy.
THe only really bad thing to happen to the Yankees yesterday is that A-Rod and K-Hud broke up.
Per ESPN breaking news: Halliday has reached an agreement on a contract extension with the Phillies.
While we are waiting for LF market to shake out, and for Damon to come back to reality I hope Cash is diligently working on shoring up the rotation for 2010.
IMO. Pitching, not more offense should be the priority, and there are usually fewer quality arms on the market than LF’ers.
Keep your eye(s) on the ball Cash.
Another thing to consider – If Cashman doesn’t blow his entire payroll this winter then he can possibly do what the Sox did last year with Victor Martinez and that’s add a player at the deadline from a team that falls out of contention (Josh Johnson? Josh Hamilton?)
I think replacing Jason Bay with Mike Cameron is more of a loss for Boston than (potentially) replacing Damon and Matsui with Damon and Granderson. I also am not sold that Cameron’s defense being better than Bay’s makes his drop in offensive productivity more palatable. Boston is not going to be as good of an offensive team next year, which doesn’t help them since while their starting pitching is improved, their team as constructed has not leapfrogged the Yankees.
as much as I want holliday if you think about things the Yankees could sign Damon and Sheets and have a competitive rotation with Boston and a significantly better Lineup. I still think Holliday makses a lot of sense and that the Yankees can outbid the Cardinals if they decide they want to
Chip
December 15th, 2009 at 10:48 am
THe only really bad thing to happen to the Yankees yesterday is that A-Rod and K-Hud broke up.
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LOL
“The Angels never said anything but I still wonder why they did not even make Lackey an offer”
——————————————
Fran: they will be wondering the same thing, when they finish 3rd place in the AL West next year
SI_JonHeyman #yanks were willling to offer jesus montero in big package but not joba or hughes for halladay. #jays liked drabek.
One good thing and two bad things happened yesterday. Doc Halladay is out of the division, hence me removing “the Prospect Hugger” tag. Good thing.
The two bad things – Cameron signing with the Sox and Matsui signing with the Angels really hurt for me.
Matsui was a favorite of mine and despite what Sam says I think he had a place on the 2010 club. I don’t like that Cashman allowed him to leave for so little money. We know this guy can still hit, he proved it in the world series. He has no negative platoon splits, hits for power, OBP – basically the perfect DH. Even if the Yankees replace him with Damon at DH it’s still a net loss as Matsui is a superior hitter.
Cameron is less of a hit because he was never on the team but I thought his combination of power and excellent defense would have fit in perfectly with this team. Signing him would allow the Yankees to shift Granderson over to left thus optimizing both players’ fielding abilities. Again, he signed for not that much dough with the Sox. I would have jumped at that 2 year deal in an instant.
At this point the Yankees offense is greatly weakened from a year ago. No Damon, no Matsui, a couple players on the wrong side of 35 (Jeter, Posada). Yes we’ve added Granderson but that doesn’t make up for our losses. The Yanks still need 2 more hitters. At this point the only good fits I see are Nick Johnson and Matt Holliday.
I hope something can get done with either of those guys but I’m not very confident at this point.
I like this post.
Cameron is a righty with power, he will do well in Fenway
Sam,
stop making sense for crying out loud. Most people here last night were all doom and gloom because we couldnt have Lackey, Cameron, Matsui, & Halladay with the additions from last year. The Yankees are doomed and the REDSOX have a MUCH BETTER team people were saying. lol what idiots.
Seriosuly you can not take people that think like that to seriously because we have no idea who they are, not every fan is a die hard know all the facts type of fan as I consider myself and some of the other knowledgable posters in this blog.
Don’t forget we also have those teeny boppers out there as well so lets not be to hard on them but the bottom line is this. This has been a fantastic offseason so far for the Yankees.
the addition of a REAL top 5 CF in granderson. Pettite coming back. I am moe convinced now that Damon will be resigned and gets back to that 2nd hole behind Jeter and gives more flex to the DH spot. No innings limit next year for Joba and Hughes which should make them more consistant.
Halladay going to the NL east to the phils in exchange for Lee who was just as dominant and alot of their farm system.
redsox lose Jason Bay who killed the Yankees and sign Mike Cameron lol nuff said there. John Lackey is a horse but lets not forget the Yankees have done fairl well against him and the sox lineup is taking a big hit espacially if they lose Mike Lowell. The sox arent a bad team but lets not forget who the world champs are and who sitll have the best team in baseball despite all these moves.
i like a 1 year offer to Ben Sheets. The rotation would match up with anyone (including Boston) in the playoffs. Boom or bust, with no risk
Rishi-
The Jays must have thought Montero wouldn’t stick at catcher.
Good for us as I would not have wanted to loose him.
The Angels strange behavior this off season leads me to believe that they are strapped for cash.
Rishi
December 15th, 2009 at 10:54 am
SI_JonHeyman #yanks were willling to offer jesus montero in big package but not joba or hughes for halladay. #jays liked drabek.
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Wow. That’s surprising that they were willing to part with Montero.
Regardless of who the Toronto GM is, there never was a good feeling that Halladay would be a Yankee. Both GM’s flip / flopped on who they wanted from Cashman who has no interest in playing Santa Claus.
Like the Santana situation, the Yankees are better off putting such gnawing deals behind them and move on.
Deals of speculation are not Cashman’s thing. Stealth moves are what he excels at.
“SI_JonHeyman #yanks were willling to offer jesus montero in big package but not joba or hughes for halladay. #jays liked drabek.”
So Cash is willing to part with Montero. That doesn’t make me happy. I would have sent Joba before I sent Montero.
Juan Pierre traded to the White Sox.
With regards to matsui, it really depends on the dh and/or LF signings and the money and yrs given to them. As one by one goes down, more and more money/yrs damon is going to get. The for sure bad thing is that they did not pressure damon to decide quickly.
Vinny-B-
Agree.
Patrick-
Disagree on the Yank offense. W Granderson they have more than enough offense as it stands.
“SI_JonHeyman #yanks were willling to offer jesus montero in big package but not joba or hughes”
——————————————–
i call bull****. Will believe this when it is coming via a reliable source and not a boras shill
“The Jays must have thought Montero wouldn’t stick at catcher.”
Olney reported last week that the Jays viewed Montero as a 1B.
“So Cash is willing to part with Montero. That doesn’t make me happy. I would have sent Joba before I sent Montero.”
Let’s be careful believing everything that Heyman says as the gospel.
“SI_JonHeyman #yanks were willling to offer jesus montero in big package but not joba or hughes for halladay. #jays liked drabek. ”
If that’s true, thank you Ruben Amaro! There’s no way I trade Montero for Halladay.
Cameron is a righty with power, he will do well in Fenway
He will strike out a billion times and hit 20+ HR – same as he does everywhere.
I just wana know how freaking awesome The Doc Halladay is going to be in the AAAA leage for Philly. 25-3? 30 Complete games? 250 innings 2.0ERA?
“Juan Pierre traded to the White Sox.”
One less spot for Johnny Damon to land.
Montero, though a phenomenal bat, has a lot less value if you believe he can’t stick at catcher. If it were true, where would the Yanks play him ? DH ?
“The Angels strange behavior this off season leads me to believe that they are strapped for cash.”
You’re right, something’s not right there.
Josh
December 15th, 2009 at 10:58 am
With regards to matsui, it really depends on the dh and/or LF signings and the money and yrs given to them. As one by one goes down, more and more money/yrs damon is going to get. The for sure bad thing is that they did not pressure damon to decide quickly.
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I’m wondering how long this Damon thing is going to play out. It’s probably a question of which side is going to cave first.
Disagree on the Yank offense. W Granderson they have more than enough offense as it stands.
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Disagree. Right now we have no DH and no LFer.
Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 15th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Good points Sam. I wonder why the Angels never really seemed like serious players for Lackey. Did they have questions/concerns about his health?
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That is what I think, they just let him walk. We never heard about an offer to Lackey. Just as the Yankees let Matsui walk without making an offer. That seemed strange as well. But we have to trust that the Yankee brain trust knows what they are doing.
I have heard there are some concerns about Lackeys elbow or shoulder that it is a ticking time bomb that the soxs now have locked up for 5 years. Good luck with that.
Juan Pierre traded to the White Sox.
—————————–if true, lowers damon value there.
Squid-
Then they must have not wanted a first baseman at all. Montero might profile like a Mig cabrera type. Strange decision. Do they have that type of first baseman in their system ?
“Montero, though a phenomenal bat, has a lot less value if you believe he can’t stick at catcher”
———————————————-
i don’t know how much it matters, tho. He has a bat which may make him the next Miguel Cabrera or Pujols
Juan Pierre traded to the White Sox.
What did Chicago send back?
How is Johnny Damon not a good fit for the 2010 team? He can still hit & be productive, he wants to come back, and he provides more flexibility than Matsui because he actually can physically hold up playing left field (even though he plays it terribly). He is not a middle of the order guy, but I think they view Granderson as one (with an added bonus of being a good defensive player as well) and will slot him into the lineup as such, if Damon returns. I don’t think it’s now a must to add Matt Holliday for $17 million a year now because Matsui left
According to Feinsand, if his math is correct, the Yankees have 29M before they hit the 200M mark.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....ament.html
He will strike out a billion times and hit 20+ HR – same as he does everywhere.
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Don’t underestimate the effect the green monster might have him. It could balloon his average from wall balls. The projections for cameron are weak, but if you look at what he did last year and add 10 hits from playing at Fenway he is suddenly putting up .268/.360 with an increase in power from likely wall doubles.
i like a 1 year offer to Ben Sheets. The rotation would match up with anyone (including Boston) in the playoffs. Boom or bust, with no risk.
““““““““““““
I concur Vinny but let’s see what his medicals show. If Cashman were truly serious, the rumor mills would be hot and heavy if it were known that Sheets was flying to NYC for a full examination.
Sorry thats 20 [twenty] million to spend.
Montero, though a phenomenal bat, has a lot less value if you believe he can’t stick at catcher. If it were true, where would the Yanks play him ? DH ?
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Totally agree and if they want a rotating DH…I guess i would listen to offers for him…..Does Montero and Joba get Josh Joshson or Justin Verlander who knows but i would not minding finding out
Jerk-
I guess you are in the camp that believes the Yanks must be the top offense every year. They are capable of producing a ton of runs w what they have. Maybe not like last year but still a top offense.
josh, I think the opposite is true. The more teams that sign OF decreases the competition for Damon. Boras is at his best when he can play teams against eachother.
I’m wondering how long this Damon thing is going to play out. It’s probably a question of which side is going to cave first.
I think that if we get to Christmas and Damon hasn’t signed the Yankees will move on.
If Halladay had gone to the Yankees of all places, there would have been riots in Toronto. If I’m the Jays’ GM, nothing less than the Yankees’ best prospects would do. Trading one of the best pitchers in the league to a rival in the same league who just won the world series and just got an all-star CF for a couple of prospects, would make me unravel if I were a Jays fan. So I can see why Anthopulous jumped on the Phillies deal.
That said, while yesterday was difficult, it only made things more interesting. Matsui was a player with no place really. He would have been at best a part-time to 3/4 time DH whereas on the Angels, he plays every day at DH. Probably for the same money. If Damon resigns, he’s a part-time player for sure. Not even 3/4 time.
Lackey to the Sox surely wasn’t without hurt, but I honestly didn’t see the Yanks shelling out $85 mil for Lackey when next year when Cliff Lee, Carl Crawford, and a bunch of other more desireable players become available.
Montero is probably a year closer to become full time catcher (if not a backup already), and Hughes/Joba are either full time starters or full time relievers depending on how this year pans out (or trade chips).
Damon is probably coming back and if not, Holliday is probably on the fringe if he’d be amendable to a lesser deal than what the Cards have on the table (which he probably won’t be – and I still don’t understand how the Cards plan on offering that and still keeping Pujols).
Jerkface:
You’re not OK with Cabrera in left? Sure seems like he is the guy right now. With considerably better than avergae production at C, SS, 2B and now CF, I think they can more than survive with Cabrera putting up a little less than average production from LF.
random points…
- Starks, Hughes will absolutely be on an innings limit. if he throws more than 140-150innings it would a very big surprise.
- I’d imagine Joba will be on a short leash too at the beginning of the season, he didn’t exactly sprint across the finish line. look for them to aim him around 180-190ip next year .
- i believe that Lackey didn’t want to go back to the angels after the scocia incident in the playoffs. add in figgins and vladi being gone, the angels are in trouble and lackey left a sinking ship.
- i believe that the yankees had no intention of offering matsui a contract. it’s the only reason he would have signed for so cheap without bringing the offer back to the yankees first. do not be sad that we are missing out on a 38yr old crippled pullheavy DH. be happy we had him and what we got from him, but that player we all loved is gone now. last year we got lucky, LUCKY that he lasted the season. no reason to double down on that luck.
- expect damon back, no team he would want to play for is in the running for his services any longer, he needs to give up the money or the years and show us he wants to be here though. (i would still put gardner in center, melky in right and grandy in left, and DH swisher… but that’s me).
Why do people insist on acting as if the Yankees are finished making moves?
Wouldn’t it make more sense to see which LF and SP they before deciding they are “in trouble”?
The off-season is far from over.
Rishi
December 15th, 2009 at 10:54 am
SI_JonHeyman #yanks were willling to offer jesus montero in big package
—
This leads me to believe Cashman could be working on a blockbuster trade for a young arm like Josh Johnson or someone else.
We don’t know if the Yankees view Montero as a catcher or not but the fact that they made him available before Hughes or Joba is very telling.
Wouldn’t mind Holliday + Josh Johnson.
“What did Chicago send back?”
Two minor league pitchers with the Dodgers picking up half of Pierre’s contract.
I guess you are in the camp that believes the Yanks must be the top offense every year. They are capable of producing a ton of runs w what they have. Maybe not like last year but still a top offense.
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Are you in the camp of ‘not wanting the yankees to be the best’? I want the yankees to be superior in pitching, bullpen, defense, and offense. All phases of the game. Realistically, by just signing Matsui and Cameron, we would have a superior Offense and Defense, which in turn would help our pitching and bullpen. Its not rocket science.
The yankees right now are 1 injury away from being a lower tier offensive club.
Disagree. Right now we have no DH and no LFer.
If the season started today Melky would be in LF, even if the Yankees sign Damon Melky could still be in LF.
Chip -
2 minor league pitchers plus White Sox get half of Pierre’s salary over the last two years of his contract.
Link to Pierre trade
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ierre.html
Vinny-b, I have no idea what you are talking about. If you are referring to my posts towards Miggs and his cohorts, then that’s your problem. You clearly haven’t read their attacks on me….I’m not going to put up with that and the fact that you think I need to shut up and take the abuse is sad. You didn’t say it, but that’s what you seem to be implying.
If you are not referring to that, then I’m sorry – I still don’t know what you are talking about.
Remember a couple of things :
The Yanks have great depth at catcher in the minors.
Cashamn has said that in the right deal NO player is untouchable.
“Why do people insist on acting as if the Yankees are finished making moves?
Wouldn’t it make more sense to see which LF and SP they before deciding they are “in trouble”?
The off-season is far from over.”
It’s the product of this internet environment and fans being very impatient with this free agent process.
If this has already been addressed, I apologize…
We’re all familiar with the ubiquitous Yankee Stadium Japanese advertising we see when watching Yankees games.
Will saying goodbye to Matsui be a big revenue drain? Will it prompt them to find or trade for another Japanese player?
“The yankees right now are 1 injury away from being a lower tier offensive club.”
The beauty of it is, except for Aaron Boone in the winter of 2003, there aren’t very many baseball player injuries occurring in mid-December, before the majority of free agents have been signed.
This leads me to believe Cashman could be working on a blockbuster trade for a young arm like Josh Johnson or someone else.
We don’t know if the Yankees view Montero as a catcher or not but the fact that they made him available before Hughes or Joba is very telling.
Wouldn’t mind Holliday + Josh Johnson.
——-
would like to believe Cash is thinking along this lines
I agree the Angels are in huge trouble in the AL West, Seattle has 2 top flight pitchers, not sure about their offense, but the Angels have taken a step back this winter. They still don’t have a reliable closer.
SJ:
what do you think of today’s report via Heyman. In which the yankees made Montero available in the trade for Halladay, but not Hughes or Joba ?
You’re not OK with Cabrera in left? Sure seems like he is the guy right now. With considerably better than avergae production at C, SS, 2B and now CF, I think they can more than survive with Cabrera putting up a little less than average production from LF.
–
Hell no I am not ok with Cabrera in left. With the options that were out on the market we could have easily upgraded our entire OF defense AND offense.
Cabrera and Gardner are good 4th OFers right now. Melky has yet to make ‘the leap’, and look at what we have right now vs what we had:
Damon – good hitter, slight split
Matsui – great hitter, no splits
Cabrera – bad hitter, split
vs
Melky – Bad hitter, split
Granderson – good hitter, split
Mystery DH – ????? if its Miranda, unknown quantity
We’re going to be missing production vs lefties and not get as good production vs righties. Additionally we have no idea how Posada and Jeter are going to hit next year.
We are 1 injury away from having Melky + Mystery DH + replacement level backup player in the lineup. Then its 2008 all over again.
Cash has a plan. I know it. He’s gonna shock us all
Cashman was holding Montero as a chip. interesting
Two minor league pitchers with the Dodgers picking up half of Pierre’s contract.
Good deal for the White Sox.
With Pierre there they probably have no interest left in Scotty Podsednik – I would throw him into the hopper for the Yankees as a LF option and number 2 hitter. He had a strong year last season, did well against LH pitching (in a small sample size) and has CF speed in LF.
Also, I would take a minor league flyer on Jose Arrendando who will miss all of this season with TJ surgery after being non-tendered by the Angels.
Jerk-
I would love that too but I do not think it is necessary to win it all. That’s what I mean. Also, for me Pitching wins championships, and since I think they wont do both this year I come down on the side of getting the best Pitching. We acn agree to disagree on this. No problem for me there.
Are there any rumors that the Marlins would deal Josh Johnson?
The Yankees can’t sign or trade for every good player. The Red Sox got money and tradition, too.
The Yanks are stacked – position to position still better than the Red Sox or any other team.
Take a breath.. All will be well.
If the season started today Melky would be in LF, even if the Yankees sign Damon Melky could still be in LF.
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This doesn’t inspire confidence. At the beginning of the off-season I really wanted Damon + Matsui, but by now I actually don’t want damon back. I’d prefer Nick Johnson.
Damon + Nick Johnson would be better.
Damon + Miranda I’d probably hate but might end up being ok as long as Miranda can hit more than Melky.
“Are there any rumors that the Marlins would deal Josh Johnson?”
No!
“Then its 2008 all over again.”
Puh-leeze! What made 2008, 2008 was that the staff ace was Andy Pettitte. It’s never 2008 again when a 240 inning horse is leading the pitching staff.
“I have no idea what you are talking about. If you are referring to my posts towards Miggs and his cohorts, then that’s your problem. You clearly haven’t read their attacks on me….I’m not going to put up with that and the fact that you think I need to shut up and take the abuse is sad. You didn’t say it, but that’s what you seem to be implying”
———————————————–
betsy: no. Not referring to any posts from today/yesterday. You have a right to defend yourself
Puh-leeze! What made 2008, 2008 was that the staff ace was Andy Pettitte. It’s never 2008 again when a 240 inning horse is leading the pitching staff.
–
2008 in terms of offense. I am the type of GM that’d go to next year with a stronger offense and defense, and let Hughes and Joba work it out in the rotation. A better defense to back them in the game, and an offense to bail them out.
Sheesh Ray – too gutless to call me by name? You can’t handle people disagreeing with you ? People who honestly think the Sox rotation is better? If you can’t understand why anyone would think the Sox rotation is better, you have blinders on. Additionally, for someone who thinks AJ is nothing more than a mediocre pitcher, you sure are high on the rotation.
Are there any rumors that the Marlins would deal Josh Johnson?
——
No Florida claims to be holding on to him and working out a deal…..he is a free agent after next year….with Florida you just never know….Montero and Joba and a couple of B Prospects for Johnson…wonder what would they say
“We don’t know if the Yankees view Montero as a catcher or not but the fact that they made him available before Hughes or Joba is very telling”
———————————————–
only ‘telling’ if you believe this report. Which i don’t
So as of now, who is penciled in for 4th and 5th spots?
Hughes and Joba?
ok, then who set’s up Rivera?
stop talking about 2008 like anything mattered other than 1) the rays being super hot in april/may and 2) ponson/rasner making 38 starts.
we won 89 games. 2008 was NOT a failure of a season on any level other than too many pitchers getting hurt.
MTU
December 15th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Remember a couple of things :
The Yanks have great depth at catcher in the minors.
Cashamn has said that in the right deal NO player is untouchable.
—
Absolutely.
SOME posters who shall remain nameless are drinking the kool-aid because they think the Yankees rotation has no question marks.
“Halladay will agree to a three-year extension worth $60MM, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com. The deal will include two vesting options, so it could keep Halladay in Philly through 2015.”
I hope this notice doesn’t become true, I’d kill Cash.
Don’t fool yourself, there are options for Damon-left field for the Mets, maybe the Cubs when they ever unload Bradley. Maybe Texas as a replacement for Byrd. It won’t be the end of the world if he signs elsewhere.
The whole object of the offseason, in order of importance, as I remember, was to get younger, with more flexibility, especially at DH, and find a reliable 4th starter.
Just for comparison, in 2008 the Yankees team wOBA was .338
6 teams were ahead of them offensively, 4 of them in the AL including the red sox. We hit .271/.342/.427 as a team. Compare that to 2009 where we had a wOBA of .366 and hit .283/.362/.478
Which team is going to win more consistently?
betsy, coming to a fan-board with an unpopular opinion and having to defend it vigorously should not be all that surprising to you. you either come to the table with so much irrefutable fact that we all see your opinion is right or you deal with the fact that no one likes your opinion. if you take things personal, step away from the message board because no amount of complaining about insults will stop them.
Career stats. Lackey has a 5.75 era in Fenway park. Enjoy. I think the Sox probably like his grit along the lines of a Schilling from a personality standpoint. But put simply he isn’t the pitcher he was a few years ago as his velocity after the injuries is done. He also has been hurt the last few years. This could end up being a poor signing in the long run. But a move they needed. For the Yankees, there is no way I lock him up, not because I don’t like him, but because I’d rather, if given the option, go after a young and upcoming pitcher if one becomes available.
So yes upgrade for the Sox right now. The thing though is poisition players for them are weak and they have issues if Bay doesn’t return. They have a limited amount of trade chips now. So the Yankees are now in the driver seat to land players by trade as they have more talent and always have the cash.
At the end of the day, by being prudent, the Yankees are continuing a trend of getting younger, financially more flexable and positioning themselves to land a young superstar giving them a much brighter outlook going forward than the Sox have.
And just as a reminder, the Yankees were World Series Champs last year, they are catching up to us, not the other way around.
The season doesn’t start tomorrow so that isn’t a rational argument.
Vinny,
To me, it’s not a story. Cash himself has said he would trade anybody if the deal was right.
He’s like every other logical thinking GM in that regard.
I don’t think Heyman is breaking new ground with that note.
Rish, I’m not familiar with the players the Jays got, but that could be true. We don’t know what the Yankees would have been willing to give up – Romine? McAllister? The Phillies prospects are rated very highly – the Yankees (outside of Montero) are not.
Good call Sam with a little perspective. Thanks
Btw, I am convinced the Yanks have no interest in Jason Bay. Its just a shake up to Damon and Boras
YT – and the order of importance fora 36yr old FA is 1) money 2) winning
neither of which can happen on any club interested in damon at this point.
“I hope this notice doesn’t become true, I’d kill Cash”
——————————————–
um, why ?
2008 was NOT a failure of a season on any level other than too many pitchers getting hurt.
–
It was certainly a failure offensively. That wOBA would put us squarely in the middle of the MLB in terms of offensive production. Should the yankees field a middle of the pack offense? Especially when we don’t have a completely solid rotation?
The yankees have the resources where we should have great depth on both sides of the ball to prevent such things.
all heyman’s twitter tells is how terrible his sources are the Yanks aren’t moving Montero and forget about Montero and Joba/Hughes for Josh Johnson…I love JJ but Joba if we leave him alone and let him pitch and grow could be everybit the pitcher that JJ is or better…we’d be better off to get into the season and see what happens
Great post Sam!
Lackey wasn’t a “bad” signing, but it does seem like Boston felt a bit of pressure to do something along the starting pitching lines and I’d much rather they had Lackey than Roy Halladay…any day of the week. Similar to the Yankees with Burnett, I think the Sox overpaid for Lackey.
RE: Matsui, I really enjoyed his time in New York. Talk about a professional. But the ship is sailing, those knees are rickety, and we simply need more flexibility as our other aging stars continue to age. It sucks to have to cut ties sometimes, but overall this was a necessary move. Best of luck to Matsui, even if I loath the team he’s now playing for.
RE: Halladay, glad he’s out of the AL. Period.
RE: Cameron, who cares? Non-factor.
RE: Damon, only re-sign him at the right price. He’s 36 and there ARE other options.
betsy, the phillies prospects are rated very highly “within their organization”, don’t forget they uploaded most of their prospects to get lee in the first place, moving everyone up the food chain.
Nick Johnson-Do you think he views himself as a DH now?
He’ll sign a contract to be primarily 1st baseman IMO.
“With Pierre there they probably have no interest left in Scotty Podsednik”
Podsednik is often injured. Pass!
jerkface, do middle of the pack offenses win 89 games? no. don’t bury your nose in 1 stat.
Any package that starts with Hughes/Joba + Montero is gonna pique the interest of any GM.
jerkface, also, is the difference between posada/matsui playings and not playing the .030 difference in wOBA? i bet it is.
Lackey will flame out in Beansville. Unless he’s used in a deal, the Socks had better hope Buchholz is the real deal otherwise pressure is put on the front of their rotation to be good every time out. Matsuzaka is ??? and Wakefield is an injury waiting to happen.
Their farm system has no major league ready arms.
Good post. I’m not going to insult everyone, because different fans show their love for their team in different ways. However, I think those of us who’ve seen the Yankees go through periods, over the past 2 or 3 decades, during which they try to buy up any hot name that comes on the market, are generally happy with the way they’re conducting themselves right now. Flailing wildly, trying to grab up all of the “best” talent leads to bad decisions. You can’t just keep adding stars for the sake of adding stars. It doesn’t work. It is smart to have a mix of longer term contracts for big name players and shorter cheaper contracts to fill in the blanks. Doing so provides the flexibility to adjust to the unforeseen things that happen during every season. The Yankees have a very good team, even as it stands right now. Sure, they could use a good DH, and it would be nice to have more pitching depth, but it’s nothing to panic about. And really, I have been a fan since I was a kid, way back in the Reggie/Munson/Randolph/Nettles/etc. days, and I HATE it, every time they lose a game. But I wouldn’t want them to go out and buy all the best players for every position, because it would feel empty rooting for them. It’s hard (for me, at least) to root for a team full of mercenaries. Some of the best moments this past season involved kids coming up big, helping the team to win. Again, they’re a good team, and they should be fun to watch in 2010, regardless of the moves they make between now and the start of the season.
Laura, I appreciate it. I still don’t get why people are frustrated at me, but frankly that’s their problem. I don’t care if people don’t like me – what am I supposed to do about that? You think I don’t get frustrated at other people? Just so you know, I am not skeptical of the Yankees chances – I just respect the Sox. I asked for reasons why the Yankees rotation is better and I never got an answer. I asked how it’s possible that people trash AJ all season and now he’s looked at as a positive in our rotation and I never got an answer. We’ll just have to agree to disagree……Anyway, thanks again. I really don’t want to have to resort just to lurking here…….but it might be necessary.
Finally some sanity.. Thanks a lot Sam…
Though Beckett, Lester and Lackey is a great rotation, the yanks have hit Beckett and Lackey quite a bit.. Like sam said, i’m happy that Doc halladay didnt end up with the sox. that would have been a killer deal with the pitching that they already have.. Dice-k and Wake are still question marks in terms of injury.. Clay has been off and on and is still learning to pitch effectively in the majors.. The yanks will be fine when they face the sox.. The problem is that with that rotation sox will easily win 90+ games and give the yanks a harder time for the division.. A solid 4th starter will even out the rotation.. Someone like Sheets or Marquis..
betsy, too much of your opinion(seeming for and against the yankees staff) is based on internet chat board fodder and that doesn’t make you a very strong argument.
“People who honestly think the Sox rotation is better? If you can’t understand why anyone would think the Sox rotation is better, you have blinders on. Additionally, for someone who thinks AJ is nothing more than a mediocre pitcher, you sure are high on the rotation.”
The rotation for the Red Sox is better today because the Yankees have yet to finish rounding out the pitching staff. But it is also ridiculous, Betsy, for you to say that Andy Pettitte is a major question mark and that the Yankees don’t know what they are going to get from him, and to basically say that everyone is a hypocrite for now having confidence in Burnett. The fact is Burnett is a mediocre pitcher who is still good for double digit wins pitching for this team, and is capable of matching up with all three of the vaunted “New Unbeatable Big Three” of the Red Sox which are apparently miles above the Yankees and beating them.
“To me, it’s not a story. Cash himself has said he would trade anybody if the deal was right.
He’s like every other logical thinking GM in that regard.
I don’t think Heyman is breaking new ground with that note”
————————————————-
SJ: to me, making Montero available in a trade for Halladay but not Joba, makes zero sense. That’s me, bro
Oh NOOOOOOOOOOOO, my crystal ball says that Damon is about to sign a 3 year deal with the Dodgers and in a deal the Yankees are getting Manny Ramirez plus 8M dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought the Manny talk was dead last year!!!!
jerkface, do middle of the pack offenses win 89 games? no. don’t bury your nose in 1 stat.
–
Many teams in the MLB win games, sometimes they even win 89 games. I’d rather not leave things to chance. A team with our pitching *right now* and the 2008 yankees offense might win the division, or the wild card, or the world series, or miss the playoffs. And I bet they’d miss the playoffs or get knocked out early far more times than a team with a better than average offense.
The different between the yankees offense last year and #2 was as big a difference as the yankees offense in 2008 vs almost every other team in the league. That is a huge advantage.
“Lackey will flame out in Beansville”
————————————-
pun of the day ?
I think we might see Bay coming to the Bronx………How bad is Bays defense? better or worse then Damons??
Reviewing the payroll numbers, I don’t see another big acquisition this winter. Either Damon signs for under $10M for 1 or 2 years or the Yankees go with what they have in the outfield and sign one of the injury pitchers(which I may remind others how we all bashed the Sox for doing that last year and rightfully so). I prefer a pitcher who is more likely to pitch a full season than one who didn’t pitch last year at all.
stanzy-excellent post
“The fact is Burnett is a mediocre pitcher who is still good for double digit wins pitching for this team, and is capable of matching up with all three of the vaunted “New Unbeatable Big Three” of the Red Sox which are apparently miles above the Yankees and beating them.”
Andrew, I have to disagree with you here. I posted a few threads ago that AJ is not a mediocre pitcher. AJ is a good pitcher who sometimes pitches like crap. To me, a mediocre pitcher is someone who has mediocre stuff. AJ has great stuff; he just doesn’t always pitch as well as he can or should. Just the way I see it.
Yankee Trader
December 15th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Nick Johnson-Do you think he views himself as a DH now?
He’ll sign a contract to be primarily 1st baseman IMO.
/////////////////////
You can’t be serious. A Gold Glover like Teixeira doesn’t sit except when Girardi feels he needs a rest.
If signed, Nick Johnson IS a DH with some part time roles at 1st base.
Unlike Matsui, at least Nick Johnson can be used at another position when needed.
jerkface, also, is the difference between posada/matsui playings and not playing the .030 difference in wOBA? i bet it is.
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It probably is, but that helps my argument! As of now we’re losing Damon + Matsui and replacing them with Melky + Mystery. So thats probably a top tier, but not #1, offensive club. Now 1 injury and we’re as good or worse than 2008.
The whole point of my ranting is that the Yankees should be doing everything they can to maintain their offensive advantage, and they could have done it very cheaply while also getting a defensive boost.
Oh NOOOOOOOOOOOO, my crystal ball says that Damon is about to sign a 3 year deal with the Dodgers and in a deal the Yankees are getting Manny Ramirez plus 8M dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought the Manny talk was dead last year!!!!
-
Huh ??
Let’s face it. The Phillies made a great deal in giving up lower tier prospects to get Lee last year, which helped get them to the WS, and saved the prospects this year to get the Halladay deal done, plus extend him for less annual dollars than CC or Santana, plus get some money from Toronto to offset the difference in $$$$ for Lee and Halladay.
Johnnie Damon’s options are VERY limited for 2 main reasons
a-most all teams know that he is a TERRIBLE TERRIBLE defensive player these days with NO ARM. Teams are not clamoring to put those guys out in their field as more teams are valueing defense and run prevention in the post steroids era
b-most all teams know that his supposed power is a mirage and so a team not the Yankees know that they will not get 20+ homer .500slg outfielder. He really needs the Yanks more than we need him.As he embarks on his HOF attempt he needs to keep hitting at the stadium to pad his stats to appear hall worthy. Away from Yankee stadium he turns back into the toad that hits 10-15hrs and slg in the low .400′s and ain’t worth 13mil a yr.
“Cashman was holding Montero as a chip. interesting”
I wouldn’t put too much stock in that Heyman rumor. Most other rumors had it that the Yankees wouldn’t trade Montero despite the Jays wanting him a great deal.
If the yankees did leak that to Heyman I’d guess they intentionally did so to send a message that they weren’t going to trade Hughes or Joba.
That would, for instance, potentially give them some added leverage negotiating with a free agent pitcher as it speaks to how highly the team regards them.
And they can always walk Montero back as no other pitcher in baseball is Halladay.
On the whole, the yankees never seemed deeply engaged enough by Anthoupolos to even get to the point where they would decide to make Montero available.
That this news comes out the day after Halladay is traded isn’t a coincidence.
And the yankees themselves would get very little out of leaking their willingness to trade Montero given Halladay is gone.
Bernie, Halladay wanted to be a Phillie. If he really wanted to be a Yankee, he would have held out for FA.
I don’t believe Heyman’s tweet, but if it’s true, I might be upset because I would have might have traded Joba….and I sure wouldn’t trade Montero.
jerkface, your definition of a mediocre offense is completely ridiculous. if the season started today, we still have the best offense in baseball by a long shot. who is really close? philly and st louis are, but we STILL project to outproduce their teams at almost every position on the field). who else?
Stan: the poster didn’t recommend signing NJ as a first baseman. Check yo reading skills
Fact:
When Damon and Matsui walked we lost 180 RBI’s and 55 HR’s.
Unless Granderson is going to have 180 RBI’s and 55 HR’s next year, we need another bat.
This “Melky in left because we have enough offense” crap needs to stop.
austinmac
December 15th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Reviewing the payroll numbers, I don’t see another big acquisition this winter.
—
The exact amount of Cashman’s cash on hand is a mystery.
Mike RI-
That was a lame excuse of a joke.
“SJ: to me, making Montero available in a trade for Halladay but not Joba, makes zero sense. That’s me, bro”
Only Montero has never actually played for the Yankees whereas Joba and Hughes have. They’ve had varying levels of success out of the pen and in the rotation.
Some of you may not like hearing this, but both Joba and Hughes had better come out of the gates firing on all cylinders because they both should be on a relatively short leash.
If one of those two pans out as a starter, I am fine with it. Some prospects pan out, some don’t. When you can cut ties to make yourself better in the long haul you do it. I’m not so sure that opportunity has come along in a deal that makes sense from both a fiscal and prospect related perspective.
And the yankees themselves would get very little out of leaking their willingness to trade Montero given Halladay is gone
——
Disagree CB, Cash maybe is letting teams know Montero is available in the right deal
jerkface, damon and matsui are replaced with granderson and “someone who is at the very worst melky cabrera”. it doesn’t prove your point, it completely disproves it. it shows that had our offense not been INJURED in 2008, we wouldn’t have had a .330 wOBA… and if ponson/rasner hadn’t been in the rotation, or we hadn’t lost all 17 starts from IPK/hughes, we would have won 100 games and this converastion wouldn’t even be happening.
Jays losers in Halladay trade:
http://thestar.blogs.com/baseb.....-says.html
lol lol no prob Yankee Trader. i got nervous for a second !
Laura, there we agree on something, lol. I don’t think AJ is mediocre either. I don’t think stuff has anything to do with it because it is possible to be mediocre with great stuff. I just think he’s a good pitcher – he may not be as good as people think he should be, but there’s nothing wrong with being a good pitcher. His WS game 2 far outweights any struggles he had in game 5.
“How bad is Bays defense? better or worse then Damons??”
—————————————————
i would venture to say worse. Left field in yankee stadium plays almost like CF. And Damon was a converted CF’er
RE:
stanzy
December 15th, 2009 at 11:25 am
Great Post
A lot of people forget that the team would not have reached the playoffs if not for the contributions of Non-stars
Swisher after Nady went down
Phil Hughes (who was doing well as a starter) Filling in the bullpen when they struggled. How many walkoffs did Melky hit? Ramiro Pena Cervelli, Robertson, & more.
That I believe is what created the winning chemistry for the team.
By the way you mentioned being a fan of the Nettles/Munson era me too! One of my favorite players then was “The Chicken” Fred Stanley, not a big star but a good role player.
mrpapp: obviously no one hitting in the 2/5 holes around some of the biggest offensive producers in the game could POSSIBLY outproduce that. damon and matsui had the greatest statistical season ever. EVER. we need those guys, no one else could possibly do it.
what a joke.
“Disagree CB, Cash maybe is letting teams know Montero is available in the right deal”
Cashman has never operated like that. He simply does not negotiate through the press.
He keeps his deals quiet. If he wanted to make Montero available he’d just let the other GM know.
He would not leak to Jon Heyman. He doesn’t work that way and that would be completely out of character.
Heyman has the loudest microphone available – he’s the last guy Cashman would go to to “let teams know” what his intentions were as GM of the yankees.
jerkface, your definition of a mediocre offense is completely ridiculous. if the season started today, we still have the best offense in baseball by a long shot. who is really close? philly and st louis are, but we STILL project to outproduce their teams at almost every position on the field). who else?
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I don’t think its very ridiculous at all. The 2008 Yankees offense was quite mediocore. The 2010 Yankee Offense needs atleast 1 more acquisition, preferably 2, to keep them safely out of harms way.
By wOBA we were 7th, by Runs we were 9th. We scored under 800 runs in 2008. The orioles were just as good as us, the orioles!
And going into next year with Melky as a starter AND a DH from our internal options is a recipe for disaster. As much as ‘kennedy+hughes’ was in 08.
“His WS game 2 far outweights any struggles he had in game 5.”
Betsy, the bottom line is that AJ did what he needed to do to help us win. In the end, that’s all we can ask for. Would I like him to get better control and stop walking so many people? Absolutely. However, if he does what a pitcher is supposed to do (which is give his team a chance to win), I can learn to live with a few walks.
“Disagree CB, Cash maybe is letting teams know Montero is available in the right deal”
————————————————
or what about, with the intent to let other teams know the yankees organization continues to regard Joba Chamberlain highly (hence increasing/maintaining his value). Frankly, to me this makes the most sense. But it’s all just speculation…
jerkface, no one is saying the offense wasn’t mediocre then, i’m saying there was a REASON.
there is not a single REASON that the yankees offense would be mediocre in its current state, other than one you have made up in your head.
Bay throws better than Damon because Damon may have the worst outfield arm in the history of MLB. It is historically bad, probably would be below average on a lot of high school teams bad. However, Damon has more range and LF in YS is huge. Bay would be an adventure out there for sure…
Laura I agree with your description of Burnett. Mediocre may not have been the best word choice on my part, but my main thought is that his well-documented inconsistency, featuring some low valleys of bad stretches, is something that works okay on the Yankees because they have a good enough offense to still get through some of his poor starts with wins.
I think Burnett’s value on the Yankees is that when right he can shut down a lineup, but even when a little off if he limits the damage he can still get wins. Plus, he has put together 2 straight fully-healthy years, which makes me worry even less about him for 2010.
And while not loving his inconsistencies, he is a main reason why the Yankees rotation is just 1 arm away from being better than Boston’s. One more veteran arm added to the starting staff and all this conjecture about the Red Sox’s rotation is for nothing.
jerkface, damon and matsui are replaced with granderson and “someone who is at the very worst melky cabrera”. it doesn’t prove your point, it completely disproves it. it shows that had our offense not been INJURED in 2008,
–
What part of ‘we are 1 injury away from being as terrible as the 2008 offense was’ do you not get? Granderson is not as good vs lefties as Damon or Matsui, so we will be missing production there.
So you’re taking an already weakened lineup and making it very susceptible to 1 injury.
We lose Posada, or A-rod, or Jeter and suddenly we are batting Melky + Mystery DH + Pena/Cervelli, and we’re right back to having 3 crappy spots in the lineup.
And this is before we know how good our older guys are going to be. I have great faith in Posada and Jeter to hit like they are capable of, but if Jeter performs like 08, or Posada starts to slow, we’ll be boned.
Thanks vinny-b
looks like we are going to get Matt Crapps….
If Cashman is looking for an innings eater then he looks at Jason Marquis. Not my proposal but Marquis is out there.
Key word ……. “looks”.
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.c....._id=150302
“SOME posters who shall remain nameless are drinking the kool-aid because they think the Yankees rotation has no question marks.”
It’s NOT a matter of the rotation not having question marks, it’s REMEMBERING and UNDERSTANDING that this question-marked filled rotation was good enough to cruise to a World Series not 10 weeks ago.
You keep repeating how no one responds to your point about the Yankees rotation, yet I do but you continually ignore it.
So I’ll ask you directly – the Yankees CURRENT rotation did or did not go 114-63 to win a Championship?
And arguing that the Red Sox rotation is “better” on paper on December 15th really isn’t that relevant. That’s not how championships are awarded.
Most people feared the Cardinals rotation going into the post-season last year, they didn’t even make it to a game 5 in the first round.
And yes, I’ll say it again, I think people’s frustration about some posters here is that those posters never seem to LEARN.
There is panic around every corner, and the Yankees not only surviving all the panic-inducing developments of last year (the first 3 Boston series, for example) but thriving is a teaching moment apparently LOST on swaths of fans here.
The Yankees are GOOD. They are post-season contenders. What part of what transpired between April and November 2009 do some fans not yet UNDERSTAND?
jerkface, no one is saying the offense wasn’t mediocre then, i’m saying there was a REASON.
there is not a single REASON that the yankees offense would be mediocre in its current state, other than one you have made up in your head.
–
I look at Cano, Swisher, A-rod, and Tex as having similiar or better production as last year.
Posada, Jeter are liable to be worse or as good.
Granderson will be good vs righties, but leaves us exposed vs lefties.
Melky sucks.
Mystery DH might suck.
I think I am being pretty logical here when I say that our offense won’t be as good next year *right now*, and that we would be 1 injury away or down year away from being mediocore again.
Why don’t you back up your talk a bit with some facts?
George,
The Chicken!! Awesome. I remember how Rizzuto always seemed to love it, when Stanley came into the game. I think he just liked saying, “the chicken!” And then he’d talk about the guy’s neck. Man, Rizzuto. Felt like a member of my family.
“there is not a single REASON that the yankees offense would be mediocre in its current state, ”
Age.
Age increases the probability of injury and it increases the probability of rapid fall off in production.
If 5 months from now they find a new fluid collection in ARod’s hip and start thinking maybe they should have done the second surgery it would be surprising but hardly shocking.
Posada is close to 40. Jeter is north of 35. ARod is 34 with a bad hip. Those are 3 of the teams top 4 best offensive players.
apparently the yankees are interest in signing capps http://www.post-gazette.com/pg.....z0ZljeGoQJ
“Plus, he has put together 2 straight fully-healthy years, which makes me worry even less about him for 2010. ”
Same here. I just knew he would turn up injured this season, but he didn’t. I hope he can stay healthy. We need him if we are going to win.
The really only 2 scenarios I see:
1. Damon is back, 2/19, and we sign a reclamation arm. That puts us right at 200 million, offseason over.
2. We lose out on Damon, therefore we sign Bay or Holliday at 4/60. That leaves us 5 million for a lesser reclamation arm (not Sheets).
Anyone have thoughts?
Cashman boosted the value of Hughes + Joba + Montero.
In the initial leaks, he refused to part with Montero.
In these recent leaks through Heyman, he wanted to keep Hughes and Joba.
Throughout the negotiations, he refused to include Joba/Hughes + Montero in the same package…even for the BEST (arguably) pitcher in baseball.
I’d say Cashman hyped all of his chips and simultaneously and very recently said that he’d make anyone avaialable in the right deal.
As someone said, that deal hasn’t come along yet in terms of dollars and prospects.
We went thru this stuff last year when the Sox signed Smoltz, Penny, Baldelli and Saito.
The same folks whining last year about Cashman being “asleep” are the same folks whining now.
JMO but, I think the Yankees end up with Damon, Vlad to DH, and either Sheets or one other starter and call it a day.
What’s next?
Gonzalez
1) Damon
2) Sheets
3) Chien-Ming Wang
4) Duchscherer
5) Bay
6) Holliday
7) Betancourt
Good point that fan hysteria was not warranted after yesterday’s flurry of moves.
But “Matsui was not a good fit at DH in 2010?”
Huh?
Professional RBI man who’s shown he can also pinch hit. And he signed for $6mil.
What would Damon bring to the team that Matsui wouldn’t. . .a lot of hair?
SJ.. Imagine Vlad as the DH.. WOW. i know .. i know he can’t play D or run very well. But he can still hit !
aerofanatic:
yes. Let Melky/Gardner/Hoffmann hold down LF. And sign Nick Johnson to DH.
Nick Johnson can hit like an all-star as the DH for the Yankees. That leaves only 1 bat in the lineup (LF), which isn’t all-star level. I believe NYY can get by with that
does anybody on this blog really think that Jason Marquis pitching in the AL East would be any good?
would anybody on this board really prefer Jason Marquis throwing 190 innings for this team over Joba or Hughes?
please tell me that you guys know that a career NL pitcher with a career 4.50+era in the NL @ 8-9mil a yr is not a better option that Joba or Hughes @ 500k a piece
Sj, if tje Yankees make those moves then they are the best team in baseball on paper heading into 2010 and this time of year that’s the only kinda better you can be.
“jerkface, no one is saying the offense wasn’t mediocre then, i’m saying there was a REASON.”
I am…
The Yankees were 10th in runs scored in 2008, thst’s in the top 3rd of the league. The scored more run than HALF of the teams that qualified for the playoffs, including the one that won the Yankees own division.
Under NO definition is that “mediocre”.
It’s mediocre in the Yankee fan definition that anything that isn’t in the Top 3 is mediocre, I’ll give you that.
But the Yanks were an above average offensive team in 2008, and scored enough runs to make a play-off run.
Now what happens in 2009 if an injury occurs or someone who bats in the top 6 has a bad year? They suffer, of course. But given the baselines is they were the best offense in baseball last season, they suffer LESS than if any of the other 29 teams lost a top 6 offensive player to injury, age or an off-season.
That’s the part I don’t think jerkface understands.
Just to Clarify, in the last 18 months the Sawks have gone from Manny Ramirez in Left to Mike Cameron…. Man how will the yanks ever compete with the genius of John Henry?????
I don’t like any of the remaining pitching options and would feel surprised if Cashman is satisfied with any of them.
“What’s next?
Gonzalez”
1) Damon
2) Sheets
3) Chien-Ming Wang
4) Duchscherer
5) Bay
6) Holliday
7) Betancourt
hopefully: Nick Johnson, Ben Sheets, Capps, and then report to spring training
“What’s next?
Gonzalez”
1) Damon
2) Sheets
3) Chien-Ming Wang
4) Duchscherer
5) Bay
6) Holliday
7) Betancourt
——————————————-
hopefully: Nick Johnson, Ben Sheets, Capps, and then report to spring training
I doubt Hal will let Cash sign Damon, Sheets, AND Vlad. That will be almost $30 million ($13 for Damon, 8 for Sheets, 6 for Vlad).
Ultimately, with Hal’s budget, we do not have the resources to fill all of our holes. We’re going to go into ST with one big question mark. It is just a matter of it that question mark is DH, SP, or LF.
Number Fifty Five
Hideki Matsui San
Sayonara, Kid
Matt capps is fine if he’s a bonus. I don’t want him if it means that other moves won’t be made. The yankees have proven that you can build a cheap and effective bullpen from within.
Jason Marquis was on the Cardinals 2006,under Duncan’s coaching,and didn’t pitch in the WS.They kept him off the roster. He was traded thereafter.Yankees don’t want HIM.
Can you say Ponson?
Why would the Yankees, who claim they want a versatile DH, sign Vlad? In theory, he can play the field. However, if you’ve watched him out there, is that what you really want? I’ll be pretty annoyed if they sign Vlad as in my eyes, Matsui would have been a better option. Also, having Vlad and Cano in the same lineup is asking for trouble.
“I’ll be pretty annoyed if they sign Vlad as in my eyes, Matsui would have been a better option. Also, having Vlad and Cano in the same lineup is asking for trouble”
———————————————–
I don’t like it either. Vlad is done
The Yankees have between 21-30 million to spend if they choose.
All three players I mentioned fall within the budget.
I think we all agree that Johnnie Damon coming back to be the #2 hitter for the 2010 Yankees would be a good thing.
But, he is in no way worth 13mil per year. He got paid 13mil per year to be the CF and lead off guy 5 years ago.
Now he’s going to be the DH and part time LF. If he’s going to get more than 8-9mil X2 from someone other than the Yankees, so be it.
I’m feeling a trade for Josh Johnson. They got owned by this guy last season and I specifically remember the postgame interviews and how even Jeter was speechless.
He’s 25 and a #1 stud. Florida will deal him, but it’s likely going to take Joba or Huges, Montero and some other prospect.
The postseason sums up AJ Burnett— 3 good games, 2 bad ones. He’ll be good a little more often than he is bad, but ultimately, it is about 60-40 or 55-45. You do not know what you are going to get from start to start. When you put him on the mound, you can’t get any real feel for how he is going to do.
HE is probably best served as our #3, but he is our #2. He isn’t a bad pitcher, but he isn’t a very good one either. He is the furthest thing from our problems at the moment though. He is one of the few givens on the team. I’d be more concerned with how Joba/Hughes do. those guys are the key to the season (if they both are in the rotation), not Burnett.
Laura – So long, Matsui. You will be missed!
December 15th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
I’ll be pretty annoyed if they sign Vlad as in my eyes, Matsui would have been a better option.
***********************
Laura, me too. I’ll be a little upset if they sign Vlad.
“I doubt Hal will let Cash sign Damon, Sheets, AND Vlad. That will be almost $30 million ($13 for Damon, 8 for Sheets, 6 for Vlad).”
Damon isn’t getting 13M and probably won’t even get 10M while Sheets might get 8M, but even that’s a question mark. Vlad at 6M is something I have to see first.
Vlad isn’t done as a hitter. He’s done as an everyday OF. Just as Matsui is.
If Vlad is still on the market after the Yankees add a LF and a SP (only way my plan would work), he could be in play for the Yankees with a contract-friendly deal.
Sj, what were the three players? Were you saying get Damon and Vlad, or just one of those and two starters? I would love Holliday but signing him means they can’t so much else unless Hal opens the wallet wide..
What you suggested is the most likely route I would say
Sj, what were the three players? Were you saying get Damon and Vlad, or just one of those and two starters? I would love Holliday but signing him means they can’t so much else unless Hal opens the wallet wide..
What you suggested is the most likely route I would say
hats off to cashman!
i have been a fierce critic of cashman over the years (kei igawa, enough said…), but the last couple of off-seasons have been brilliant, decision-making wise:
1) clearly the yanks knew that getting halladay means no. 1 prospect+ (e.g. drabek). since they were unwilling to part with montero, they made an early decision that halladay was a non-option.
2) following point 1, cashman decided that no. 2 prospect could be used to get something, like a younger, stronger CF.
3) cashman obviously identified the need for a DH who can field a position, so he can give DH days to some of the older bats. so, matsui was effectively gone before the parade ever took place.
4) next year the yanks will be HUGE players in the FA market, esp. pitchers. cliff lee, maybe even beckett… i don’t see how the mariners extend lee AND lock up king felix in consecutive years.
5) this off-season is not over yet. a SP will arrive, though no one too sexy probably, and a fielder/DH – who may not be damon – which i’m perfectly fine with.
all in all – great job by yanks front office!
Brett,
Cashman cannot seriously think that having Hughes AND Joba int he rotation isn’t a risky strategy.
I don’t love Sheets, but you might as well give him a shot. Better than going into camp with 2 kids guaranteed to be in the rotation. And we all saw how Joba approached the off-season when he was guaranteed a spot last year— he came in out of shape.
jerkface, i’m not going to argue against the projections that you seem to have made up in your head. based on every well respected projection system out there right now, we are perfectly fine on offense. 6.2 runs/game isn’t enough for you? lol…
all you are concerned about is injuries? you don’t plan for that. not by overpaying FA’s to fill gaps that you created by fictitious injuries. every other team in baseball(with the exception of stlouis and philly) is one “injury” away from having a minor league lineup.
i’ll take my chances.
I don’t think the Yankees a player to specifically be the full-time DH, like a Vlad. I think they are going to end up signing Damon and either signing or trading for a veteran starter. Then they go into spring training with an open competition for at-bats out of a group of guys. That means Melky, Gardner, Juan Miranda and Jamie Hoffmann getting long looks to see if one of their bats sticks out as useful enough to warrant being in the lineup frequently as either the main DH or part of a rotation in LF with Damon (in the cases of Melky, Gardner and Hoffmann).
I’m confidant that Mr. Cashman will make a few more moves for the benefit of the team. But if we had to go into the season as-is, I’m still confidant that we could win the division.
I’m tired of the Melky bashing. The kid has played all 3 fields and done everything asked of him. He keeps getting better. look back at Bernie Williams’ 1st 3 years and the stats will be quite similar.
This will be a breakout year for Melky & Phil Hughes!
The Marlins turned down Justin Smoak and Neftali Feliz for Josh Johnson last week or so. I don’t think he’s being traded.
I don’t think Vlad is done either . NOT as a hitter
I believe that Cash prefers Holliday over Damon, but of course there is the matter of years/$$ ..
8 year offer from the cards was really unexpected. Yanks willing to go 6.
Jays will trade Michael Taylor to A’s for Brett Wallace
Nick Johnson – DH
Ben Sheets – starting pitcher
Matt Capps – bullpen
then report to spring training
For a fanbase with unreasonably high standards, some of these moves I’m hearing are of the nickel-and-dime variety.
It wreaks of desperation.
I want 1 big move for the offense (to replace Matsui’s production) and 1 for the rotation (to replace the original version of Wang).
Leave the small stuff for the bullpen and bench.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....llace.html
What’s next?
1. Podsednik for back-up LF/CF
2. Duchscherer, MacDougal or Capps for bullpen
3. Dye, Nick Johnson, Damon or Delgado for 1-yr DH
The way I look at Lackey to the Sox is this way. IF he stays healthy, he essentially takes Wakefield’s place in the rotation.
Now being the BEST FA available, and being a TOP-LINE starter are not the same thing. The john Lackey of the last 2 years is not that significant an upgrade over what Wakefield has been giving the Sox the last several years, but he comes at 5x the pricetag.
Wakefield was 11-5 last year with a mid-4 ERA.
It isn’t like the Sox just replaced a black hole with a Cy Young candidate.
the red sox panicked. lackey is not burnett. plain and simple, he’s an injury risk and does not pitch well in fenway.
cameron is a nice defensive player, but he strikes out way too much. hit bat is no where near bay’s.
they still have to get a 3b, beltre will not be cheap.
Lackey? After 5 straight years of 200+ IP (ok, one year it was 198!), the injury bug hit and he was well under in 08 and 09 as he hit age 30 or so. He appears on the downward slope, which is more usual than not given the above. A solid reliable #1 or 2, or even 3 over 5yrs? Dubious at best. Theo is gambling out of desperation as the bridge is on the verge of collapse.
Mike Cameron?…a lifetime .250 BA with defensive skills not at all comparable to his pre-08 excellence (if you watched the Brewer games that would be evident as he no longer gets his patented “jump on the ball”…that’s what life past 35 does to you. Playing the Green Monster? Big deal. He’ll hit his 25 or so bombs, but not necessarily in the clutch. Grasping at straws since Bay apparently said no, yes indeed. As a Yankee diehard, I like it!!
Now, if they sign Holliday or Beltre, and/or trade for Adrian G, that’s another story….IMO, Beltre would recapture the offensive prowess he left in LA in his last year in Dodger Blue. Hopefully, Theo will now sit pat.
I don’t believe any of you asking for vladi have watched an angels game in a while. vladi was completely lost at the plate this year. he can’t turn on the fastball like he used to unless he jumps it, he’ll K more than he ever has next season.
and it’s nice to see that we have so many front-office personnel from the marlins posting here. on what planet do they want to trade josh johnson?
Tom said:
The Marlins turned down Justin Smoak and Neftali Feliz for Josh Johnson last week or so. I don’t think he’s being traded.
————————–
Gonna have to be a sweeter deal, I think they’ll move this guy if you throw Hughes/Joba out there with Montero and another prospect.
aerofanatic,
no way holliday or bay take a 4\60 deal. holliday was already offered tons more by the cardinals, and the mets will overpay for whoever is left.
if the yanks don’t get damon, they’ll need to look elsewhere, perhaps all the way to melky cabrera…
by the way, people are easily dismissing melky. now, i’m not a huge melk-fan, but wasn’t he an everyday CF on a worls series winning team just recently?
Here’s whats left to do this off-season: Johnny for 2 years at about 11 per. Sheets for 1 year and 8 with a club option. Garko/Atkins for a year and about 5-6 per.
PS there’s no way we’re signing Vlad. This isn’t 2003
edit: my handle
Vlad could also be a positive influence on Cano and teach him how to have selective ABs rather than hacking at the 1st pitch. I imagine Vlad was Cano’s idle from the Dominican Republic. He could teach Cano a couple of things.
that Montero story is BS. It would not behoove the Yanks to let Joba or Phil know they were willing to trade them for Halladay.
some random thoughts:
Vlad-Interesting proposition…I would prefer not to sign him but he does hit the ball well still, he’s just very inconsistent.
Matsui-Sad to see him go, his consistency and timely hits will be sorely missed. His inability to play defense will not.
Damon-Bring him back…for 2 years.
Lackey-Boston’s Burnett. Capable of throwing a gem, also capable of getting hurt. They needed to make a move like this.
Halladay-good riddens.
I don’t think Lackey was ever on Cashman’s radar. And realistically, Halladay was probably a pipdream. Based on the stuff that has come out, Toronto asked us for an unreasonable package.
So right off the bat, Cashman’s eyes had to have been on Sheets. I don’t see yesterday’s events changing that considering I don’t think Cash considered either Doc or Lackey as a realistic option.
And if not Sheets, then who? Cahsman has stressed pitching in every interview he has done this off-season, but where is the pitching coming from if it isn’t Sheets?
“Vlad could also be a positive influence on Cano and teach him how to have selective ABs rather than hacking at the 1st pitch. I imagine Vlad was Cano’s idle from the Dominican Republic. He could teach Cano a couple of things”
————————————————
lol. post of the day
“8 year offer from the cards was really unexpected. Yanks willing to go 6.”
Is it really an 8 year offer?
That’s not what Joe Strauss’s article said. The wording was:
“the deal is believed worth around $15 million-$16 million a season for up to eight years, ”
The key words there are “for up to…”
That is very different from an 8 year/128M offer. It sounds like there is probably at least 1 (perhaps two?) option years.
In addition it’s unclear how much the deal is backloaded.
As such the net present value of the deal in real dollars may be well short of $128M.
That leak clearly came from the Cards – not Boras. Boras wouldn’t leak to joe strauss.
And it’s worth asking why the Cards would leak this now? It sounds like their offer may have been on the table for a while and they are leaking this now to prevent Boras from trying to shop the offer as a “mystery team” deal.
I also wonder if they would leak the offer if it wasn’t close to their best offer.
Sounds like the cards want Holliday to make a decision sooner rather than later.
SJ,
Vlad huh? That’d be interesting, although I’m not sure it makes any more sense than Matsui. They’re both decrepit from a fielding perspective.
to call Halliday to the Phils, a HELP is crazy,,,,if you figure the Phils better than the Red Sox, then the HELP to the Red Sox is exactly the same. So now its a push
but if you figure we meet the Phils again in the world series then it’s not even a push anymore
looking at this correctly this is a loss for the Yankees….
Jack-Vlad is going to be teach Cano to be patient at the plate? Not likely since Vlad is the least patient hitter out there.
===>
the red sox panicked. lackey is not burnett. plain and simple, he’s an injury risk and does not pitch well in fenway.
cameron is a nice defensive player, but he strikes out way too much. hit bat is no where near bay’s.
they still have to get a 3b, beltre will not be cheap.
——————————————————
It does my heart good to see the Red Sox loading up on this year’s free agent class. The truth of the matter is that this year’s free agent class is mediocre compared with next year’s free agent class. Money wasted this year on multi-year contracts is money that can’t be invested in next year’s FA’s.
I am hoping that the Yankees don’t spend too much money this year on free agents. Not only would they have the money next year, they would have some money available at the trade deadline. This past season, the Yankees were not able to make a big splash at the trade deadline because they had ‘blown their wad’ in December. However, if they have some ready cash (and a few prospects) at the trade deadline in July 2010 they could pick up one or two high profile “rentals”. Its common for teams who have dropped out of contention to make potential FA’s available at the trade deadline as “rentals”. It would be nice if we could pick up a Huston Street if the Rockies drop outof contention…or a Carl crawford if the Rays drop out of contention.
“The Yankees have between 21-30 million to spend if they choose.”
They aren’t 21-30 million away from $200M right now. They aren’t $15M away from it. $30M puts them closer to $220M than $210M. Doesn’t matter to me. Not my money. But they can’t go another $20M – $30M without going well over $200M.
the lackey/cameron signings kind of have me scratching my head. the red sox had a very good rotation last year, that wasn’t their problem. their problem was that for what seemed like weeks at a time, their offense would go completely cold. outside of youkilis and pedroia, (and to a lesser extent, bay), there was no hitter on that team that scared me. with these two deals, they still haven’t addressed that huge problem. it doesn’t look like lowell is going anywhere, so it looks like the sox are stuck with that bum contract until it expires.
if the yankees sign a reasonable back of the rotation starter, and maybe make a move or two for a solid bullpen arm, they are most certainly the team to beat in the AL East. they probably still are as things stand now. back away from the ledge yankee faithful.
I actually think there it is another big positive that the Halliday deal got done. I think the yankees were waiting to see what happened here before they made their next move and if this thing was carried out until January or later it would have only hindered the Yankees ability to act on other fronts.
Now we can put that past us, be happy Boston didn’t get him and move right along. I’m ready for some news Cash. Doesn’t need to be blockbuster moves but news would be nice.
I’m OK with the moves so far.
Boston gets Lackey but not Halladay and Halladay is out of the AL.
Cliff Lee and Halladay won’t be on the same team in the event the Phils make the WS again.
King Felix and Cliff Lee are on the same team, but they’re in Seattle. Seattle still has to make a ton of moves to be a factor.
Cameron to Boston? I’d though of him as too average a player to get excited about NY pursuing last year. So I wouldn’t be too worried about him being more than an average player there now.
Granderson is a plus, and maybe a bigger plus than some expect. Obviously he needs to work on that lefty split but this lineup, this stadium and Kevin Long could probably help him with that. RF in Yankee Stadium should yield a few bonus blasts off his bat. We will miss Matsui’s bat on this team but I see A-Rod, Tex and maybe Granderson as threats to have 40HR seasons.
Acquiring one more non-Damon OF would be better for the Yanks. Damon primarily as DH plus Jason Bay could work. I see losing him as a slight minus for Boston and acquiring him would also be a slight plus for NY. The two together isn’t like adding a young Ken Griffey Jr type (the 1998 version) it’s more of a combination of smaller moves that begin to add up.
LF Bay / CF Granderson / RF Melky with Damon & Swisher interchangeable as DH & 4th OF would be an improvement over last year. Gardner could still earn a spot too. He did better than expected last year, and of course he can really pick ‘em up and put ‘em down on the bases.
The Yanks really didn’t need to add too many pieces this year. They tinkered, and there’s still room. Boston did have to, and they’re making moves.
If they get Bay (or Holliday but I think Bay would be cheaper) and Damon, then Gardner or Swisher could potentially become trade bait for a back of the rotation starter. I’m not going to guess on details of what trades they’d think up with regard to that, I’m just speaking in general terms. Making smaller moves than last year, but as long as they’re good moves the team can actually improve.
Let’s get ben sheets
Why not Holliday for LF and Damon as DH/LF…and maybe Duscherer or another starter?
The great offense- defense debate continues to rage here today.
Some say fix the offense. It’s not good enough.
Some (like myself) have argued for more pitching depth.
The the dangers that exist within the offense due to age
do not only exist within the the offense. They exist, perhaps to a lesser extent, within the rotation as well.
Does Pettite repeat his great performance from last year ? Can AJ stay healthy.
Other risks, not age related,
exist as well,i.e. Joba/Hughes.
The best option would be to try to mitigate the risk in both areas. Can Cash do this ? Will he have the right opportunity and budget ? Perhaps. But maybe not. No one can be certain of this but Cash and his advisors. Even Cash may not know if the right player/price opportunity will present itself. So he waits for now ready to act. And we do too.
If he is forced to choose between on or the other of the above (which i hope he wont be) who knows what he would do. Wouldn’t it depend on the players involved and relative prices.
Here’s to hoping he can do both. I am not too worried about the who. I have confidence in him and his team to make the best decisions possible under his operating constraints.
erik – as long as David Ortiz doesn’t start drinking Dominican milkshakes again, I agree with you non the Red Sox lineup.
With Beckett, Lester and Lackey, their top 3 pitchers should be a threat. Two if Beckett has another off year. I think Dice-K is not going to be a stud after last year. Last year they were both showing so much wear & tear that if they were Yanks, half this blog would have compared them to Igawa & Pavano. OK well not THAT bad, but almost.
Wakefield is hanging on … let him and Buckholz pitch all they want. They might have a dozen of really good games between them and the rest is batting practice.
multiple writers are saying TOR got raped in the deal, assuming it stands as mlbtraderumors says. guess their new gm wasn’t too great?
i like vlad, but at the right price. his bat control and bat speed seemed to be a little off last year, but not sure if that could have been because of his injuries. $5m for vlad = yes.
sheets would seem like a good risk, but not at the rumored $12m/year he was looking for. $7-8m base, up to $11 or so w/ incentives.
we still need another pitcher in case joba or hughes doesn’t work out in the rotation. your starting 5 are usually not your ending 5.
i trust in cash. pieces should start dropping into place now.
LF/DH…SP…Utility Player…RP & they are all set
Yanks will step up next year and get LEE. Still he will be a FA for 2011.
Sam,
I just got in from being out all morning and just read your post. I would have to agree with what you’ve written.
It’s not easy to say goodbye to Matsui, though. He has been a favorite almost since the first game he played here. No one represented the Yankees better. I wish him well. I understand the Yankees’ reluctance to take on a one-dimensional player, even if that one dimension was pretty powerful.
The Mariners certainly do seem to be a team on a mission. I don’t think the Angels are even close to being the lock on that division that they’ve more or less been in the recent past. That’s good for that division.
I was happy that Halladay signed with Philly – for the reasons you cite. I was also happy that Philly traded Lee (that part did go through, right?) because Lee AND Halladay is scary. Halladay instead of Lee is almost a wash. I mean, how many more wins can Halladay have for Philly than Lee did (if you extrapolate over a full season of Lee)? The only difference would be the ERA at which they were able to win their games, and MAYBE the number of innings pitched and complete games. But actual wins? Would be reallyreallyclose.
I don’t know how anyone can accuse Cashman of being asleep on the job. He’s basically said he never takes a day off; he was on the phones seeing what was what immediately after setting his WS roster. No one is more on top of things than Cashman. Doesn’t mean all his moves will meet with favorable fan reaction, but just because you don’t like what he’s done or not done doesn’t mean he’s not working hard. Also have to keep in mind what he knows versus what we know (regarding health, performance and off-field issues) as well as his particular budget and the relative fluidity of same (or non-fluidity whichever the case may be) not only for this season but for several seasons going forward.
I’m scratching my head at some of the comments acting like the Sox adding Cameron was such a bad move while at the same time acting like Granderson is the second coming of the Yankee Clipper. Obviously, Granderson has more upside because he’s young and the Stadium fits his swing but if you look at the 09 stats, these two have virtually identical numbers. Bottom line, we need a #2 hitter pronto. We don’t need Granderson striking out swinging from his heals in the #2 slot.
For the most part, I agree with Sam — but I think he’s looking at the Halladay move only from the Yanks perspective, and not from the Sox perspective. If you put yourself in both sides’ shoes, the Halladay move isn’t a “help,” it’s a “push.”
I’m glad Halladay didn’t end up on the Sox, I’m glad the Yanks won’t have to face him multiple times every season, and I’m glad the Yanks got to hold onto Joba, Hughes and Montero. But, the Sox and their fans are no doubt glad Halladay didn’t end up on the Yanks, they’re glad the Sox won’t have to face Halladay multiple times every season, and they’re happy they get to hold onto Bucholz, Bard and Casey Kelly. Halladay going to the NL helps BOTH the Yanks and their biggest rivals about equally. So, it’s a wash.
The Sox made good moves for them. Lackey is a very good pitcher, he potentially gives them a deeper rotation than the Yankees (depending upon injuries and performance by each team’s question marks), and he cost them money — not prospects. Now, they can hold onto their prospects, or use them to upgrade their offense. Most people seem to be assuming that Cameron will move to LF. Don’t be surprised if he plays CF and Ellsbury moves to LF. Even in his late 30′s, Cameron was one of the best defensive CF’s last year — and Ellsbury has been better in LF. The Sox are trying to seriously upgrade their defense, and that would be one way to do so.
The Yankees should be presenting Damon a 2 year $20 million deal and then pursue the rest of the market. I think most would be ok with that and that is on market for sure.
Get involved with Ben Sheets on incentive deal. The Harden deal was too much but for a guy like Sheet it would be worht it.
And then people talk about Capps. But if Duscherer has limited suitors he is a guy who was pretty darn good for the A’s. And with him he was a quality starter or reliever. He gives you massive flexibility with Hughes and Joba. You could start him in the pen and if need be switch him back. Again, with Pinero and others out there he might fall in your lap.
“Bottom two: Joba, Hughes vs. Dice-K, Bucholz? Call it even, mostly because, but Dice-K might be less of a certainty than even Joba.”
Sam, do you ever take your act to the Comedy Store? You’re hysterical.
Am looking at this on my mobile and apologize if it’s been discussed, but could the Lackey signing have a negative impact on Beckett in 2010? Given the Lester contract it’s unlikely he will get the dollars he wants from the Sox after next year so the Lackey signing could be taken by him that Theo isn’t interested in bringing him back. Given he’s an emotional player I would think it could weigh on him during the season.
Sorry, letting some other team get Matsui for a measly $6.5mil (reportedly) was bad. The Yankees don’t really need a DH who can play the outfield, as Melky/Granderson/Swisher are relatively young and in good shape and don’t need much rest. They could have a relatively cheap, reliable, clutch #5 hitter.
The only positive to this is it has piqued my interest as to what Cashman plans to do now.
Theo Epstein beat Cashman this go-around, he knew that Halladay was going to Philly and jumped on Lackey. The Red Sox, as it stands today have a better pitching staff than the Yankees. It is a good thing they haven’t signed Bay or Holliday because there is a good chance they’ll get after Adrian Gonzalez and then have a better offensive and defensive team.
Boston’s moves don’t bother me that much though adding Lackey makes their starting rotation better than ours. On the other hand losing Bay and adding Cameron hurts their offense. What really bothers me is we didn’t sign Matsui for a measly $6.5M. So far we have lost Damon and Matsui who other than Jeter were the only ones who hit in the World Series. Both Damon and Matsui hit lefties and righties while Granderson only hits lefties. As pitching is 90% of the game I would say objectively right now as we blog the Red Sux would have to be the pre-season favorite. That could certainly change but you gotta love their rotation.
Contrary to the rosy hue of this column, the Lackey signing was a major coup for the Red Sox. Their starting pitching is now far superior to that of the Yankees in terms of depth. Boston’s top three are a bit better. The next three blow the Yankees away. The idea that Dice-K, Bucholtz and Wakefield is somehow not light years ahead of Chamberlain, Hughes, Aceves, Mitre, Gaudin or whoever the Yankees put out there is pure nonsense. The Yankees got lucky they got a title with a three deep rotation last year. They’re pressing their luck now. I’d focus on getting Bedard as a fourth man. Sheets is mediocre and injury prone, but he’s better than what the Yankees have now. The Yankees have managed to transform Chamberlain from the next Goose Gossage to Sidney Ponson. Hughes can’t get big league hitters out throwing the 91-92 he does as a starter. Aceves is a nice long man in the pen, nothing more. Cashman, once again, has been asleep at the wheel. Let’s hope he wakes up.
Ben Sheets and Nick Johnson and that is all. Considering Damon will not lower his demands. For what Damon is asking the Yankees can do the following for less money.
Jeter SS
Johnson DH
Teix 1st
A-rod 3rd
Granderson CF
Posada C
Cano 2nd
Swisher RF
Melky LF
CC
AJ
Andy
Sheets
Hughes/Joba (the other in the pen or in the minors getting their innings in.)
“Top three: CC, AJ, Pettitte vs. Beckett, Lester, Lackey? Give the Sox a slight edge if you’re being fair.”
No, give the Sox a SIGNIFICANT edge if you’re being fair. Just look at the numbers and ages.
Bottom two: Joba, Hughes vs. Dice-K, Bucholz? Call it even, mostly because, but Dice-K might be less of a certainty than even Joba. It’s also worth noting that the “swing-man” on both teams: Aceves vs. Wakefield might actually favor the Yankees.
Matsuzaka has a near-full season as an MLB starter under his belt with a sub-3 ERA in the AL East (2008). He was injured last year. The other three starters you’ve mentioned are talented, young question marks.
The bottom line is that come playoff time, the Red Sox have a terrifying rotation. Dammit I hate Theo Epstein, but he is a smart son of a b***h. He’s designed a team that will probably get to the playoffs, and then have a better shot than anyone of winning due to their ridiculous starting pitching. The Yankees have a team that is designed to win 110 games and score 1000 runs during the regular season, but not outperform in the playoffs due to good, but not great, starting pitching.
The Yankees and Red Sox will probably both make the playoffs this year, and once they do, I’d give the Red Sox a 35% chance of winning the pennant and the Yankees a 25% chance.
Let’s hope that:
- Either Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain turns into a beast.
- Alex Rodriguez continues to hit in the clutch.
- Curtis Granderson learns how to play CF in Yankee Stadium and isn’t completely useless against left handed pitching.
- Mariano Rivera doesn’t begin his inevitable decline (it was obvious that he was pitching hurt this postseason).
etc etc etc whatever, I guess I’m a bridge jumper.