Bringing back Nick Johnson?
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 16, 2009 
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UPDATE: I forgot to mention tomorrow’s chat, and that’s a good way to get my bosses mad at me. Hope I remember it tomorrow! Sam and I will be here chatting at noon on Thursday. Stop by. Ask a question. Or be like my loving mother and watch quietly, then call me to ask how in the world I’ve heard of all these baseball players. Now back to the post…
Since half of the comments are about Nick Johnson anyway, we might as well cap the night with a quick post about the former Yankees first baseman and currently available designated hitter.
George King is reporting that the Yankees have talked to Johnson’s agent about bringing Johnson back to the Bronx.
“We have had dialogue, things are moving forward,” agent Rex Gary told King. “Something could happen to speed things up but it’s hard to predict.”
Indeed, very hard to predict.
The lure of Johnson is obvious. The guy has a .402 career on-base percentage, plus some left-handed power that could play well in the new Yankee Stadium. The negative is also obvious. Johnson has been injury prone throughout his career.
One problem I see is that I’m not sure signing Johnson would be especially different from signing Hideki Matsui, in that Johnson would also be limited to DH duty with the Yankees. Yes, he can play first base, but that doesn’t give the Yankees much flexibility. Mark Teixeira is going to be playing first almost every day anyway, and the Yankees can always play Nick Swisher at first on days Teixeira needs a day off.
Brian Cashman has said time and again that it’s easy to find a DH in this market, and the Yankees seem to prefer a DH who gives them some flexibility. Johnson would a nice fit in the No. 2 spot in the lineup, but I’m not sure he fits with what the Yankees seem to be doing this offseason. I don’t doubt the Yankees have talked to his agent, but it’s hard to know whether those talks are legitimate or if the agent is playing his part by playing up the negotiations.
FIRST
They should sign Matt Holliday first, then worry about other things.
Johnson is too injury prone – if they go this route should’ve kept Hideki
Nicky’s a better hitter than Hit-Deki and is a few years younger. Cause of his injury luck we’ll be able to get him on an incentivized contract with a low-ish base. It’s a no brainer, especually since Miranda is injured.
Signing Holliday makes the DH decision much less critical.
id love to have johnson back on a reasonable deal..we can have to nick’s on the team just in time for christmas!
(repost):
Lost,
Hmmm. Not sure what to say.
Lost-in-Tex-is posted a very short one line message confirming Tex’s definitive signing a few minutes before Heyman broke the news.
That post got lost in the dozens of posts being put up that day – but I remember that distinctly. The post said something to the effect of, “Tex wanted it done and now its done” or something to that effect.
Lost-in-Tex-is was legit.
man the crazies are out tonight…”nick johnson is a better hitter than hideki”….”let’s go get Holiday!” yeah! another Tex sized contract for a hitter who’s a career NL guy and benefitted unbelievably from Coors Field – righhht
Tex’s contract is for $180 million. Holliday’s will be nowhere near that….
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....eally-140/
That is the link to the thread the day we signed Teixeira.
First link confirming the signing was right around 3:18 PM.
Pretty fun to read that thread a year later.
Did anyone ask the agent if Nick broke his leg answering the phone? This guy is one of the most injury prone athletes I have ever seen.
If he could stay off the DL, he’d be the 1B right now for the Yankees instead of Tex.
Well, Lost in the Holliday Inn? Does Boras pull a bait and switch with Johnny D, or is Matt on his way here?
I remember the last dad who insisted his kid play for the Yankees–Mr. Giambi. Not sure at the end of the day the long term contract was worth it.
“Signing Holliday makes the DH decision much less critical.”
True. But should they sign Holliday and Johnson (and johnson ever stays healthy) the offense will be a relentless beating for the opposing pitcher.
I can’t imagine what the second and third time through the order would look like for a starting pitcher.
Think about the team from 2008. Think about how old and unathletic it was.
If they sign Holliday and Johnson 6 of the 9 position players would be 31 or younger, with 5 of the 9 less than 30.
Holliday is the first move. If we do that then we don’t need NJ as he gives us no flexibility at DH.
Holliday gives us RH power bat that we need. Swisher is the DH and rotates at 1B and OF for rotaional rest. Makes more sense than anything else.
Sign a #4 starter and we are good to go. I like Sheets for that spot with Hughes in the rotation and Joba to the pen.
I would also move Arod to the 3 hole in this lineup with Tex at 4 and Holliday at 5 giving both Arod and Holliday protection against RHP with lefties behind them.
Jeter SS
Granderson CF
Arod 3B
Tex 1B
Holliday LF
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swisher DH
Melky RF
CB: my own re-post, but I think this Lost-in is the same as the other one, based solely on my own radar. Can’t vouch for him, of course.
Bo Knows: I was just having a little fun with my previous question to Pat M, I enjoy your posts too. I’m not so worried about adding the Holliday contract, if they do so, he would be younger at its conclusion than Damon is today. We shall see.
“One problem I see is that I’m not sure signing Johnson would be especially different from signing Hideki Matsui, in that Johnson would also be limited to DH duty with the Yankees. Yes, he can play first base, but that doesn’t give the Yankees much flexibility. ”
Exactly. They would have been better off giving $6.5mil for a year of the World Series MVP. Now they are scrambling for a replacement. Forget Nick Johnson, forget Johnny Damon. Pay the price for your sins and sign Holliday.
Yes! Bring back Nick. He is inexpensive, hitterish and if he never plays in the field he will last the whole season.
I think it’s a positioning move for negotiations with Damon. If they create the perception of interest in other options it weakens his negotiating power, especially since he doesn’t have any similar offers and if he really won’t come back on reasonable terms, Johnson could be backup option.
I hope they sign Johnson and forget about Damon. If Johnson bats 2nd, and if he and Jeter both have OBA’s of around .400, Teix and ARod will drive in a ton of runs. And, Johnson’s patient hitting style will wear out opposing pitchers.
If we get good production from DH, I’d be quite happy with a outfield consisting of Granderson, Swisher, and some combination of Melky, Brett, and Hoffman.
JJ
I just read the Tex thread from last year. Surreal is the word for it. Substitute “Holliday” for “Texeira,” and it could be exactly the same thread as this one.
Right down to the misdirection play of looking at NJ.
O Bobcatus, “They hear what you want them to hear”
“True. But should they sign Holliday and Johnson (and johnson ever stays healthy) the offense will be a relentless beating for the opposing pitcher.”
CB, oh it would be a nightmare for opposing pitchers. I’m just saying that signing Holliday first makes the DH a cherry on top instead of a critical signing. Obviously you want the best DH you can get and NJ would be a risky but potentially very good option.
If Cashman wants to sign Holliday to an expensive long term contract, will Hal okay it?
Okay, you guys might as well give up on next season!
My Sox signed right hand pitcher Boof Bonser from the Twins.
One thing that would be a nice side benefit of signing Holliday would be hearing and seeing the Red Sox fans reactions.
ESPN will have a black border around everything they broadcast, tears will be flowing, comments about the rich get richer will be become the mantra. Kruk will have that same look as he did through the World Series and go off on daily rants and raves.
It will be priceless. Just for that alone the Yankees should sign him.
“If Cashman wants to sign Holliday to an expensive long term contract, will Hal okay it?”
Thats the 90-100 million dollar question.
We’d have a chance to put 4 .400 OBP guys in a row at the top of the order, 5 if we had Holliday. That would be insane. Everyone would end up with a lot of RBI’s and we’d score over 1000 runs and allow one of Joba or Phil emerge as that 4th playoff starter.
Oh no! Boof goes the season!
I was talking to myself on the last post for 15 minutes.
Cashman says a lot of things. Not all of them are completely true. Who is out there that the Yanks would want (other than Damon who wants too much for too long)?
Johnson
Guerrero
Thome
Dye
Gomes
I think that Johnson is clearly better than the other 4. Stop dreaming, the Yanks are unlikely to sign Halliday or Bay. Too much money and too many years.
With Matsui gone, Johnson is the best available hitter, unless the Yanks trade prospects for an Adam Dunn.
blake, I am sure that if the plan is to attempt to sign Holliday that it is already through the approval process.
“I just read the Tex thread from last year. Surreal is the word for it. Substitute “Holliday” for “Texeira,” and it could be exactly the same thread as this one.”
The situations are playing out remarkably the same.
And it’s really something that the national media is again buying this idea that the yankees aren’t interested.
Tim Kurkijian today on ESPN said he only sees a one team market for Holliday – St. Louis – and that he couldn’t come up with a second team that had a legit interest.
@ray (sox fan)
oh really???
FYI, we juz beat lackey’s ass on the ALCS.. so i am not really afraid of ur signing of Lackey and Cameron
and Boof Bonser?? who???
Nick in SF…..Now I’m confused, damn Percocets….I think Bo Knows what it was attempting to convey…
I agree with Chad in that I don’t see how Johnson makes the lineup “more flexible” but there is obvious appeal to having him batting in the 2 hole.
Maybe the Yankees think Johnson can play a little OF? Seems like a bit of a gamble but they did try it with Travis Lee.
I still believe that the most likely scenario at this point is Matt Holliday, but nothing Cashman could do (short of actually trading for Manny) would shock me.
# Lost in Holliday-in December 16th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
I was talking to myself on the last post for 15 minutes.
_________
Is that Lost in the Last Post then?
Its tough to catch that a new post is up sometimes. Its almost better when the site refreshes a little slow so you see the new post at the top of the page.
ESPN is just in the denial stage of grieving.
Lost,
I remember the bit about the wife – which was well before Gammons threw a hissy fit about it.
I’m sure you understand my skepticism. But keep posting!
“Tim Kurkijian today on ESPN said he only sees a one team market for Holliday – St. Louis – and that he couldn’t come up with a second team that had a legit interest.”
Olney said basically the same thing on ESPN 1050.
# Lost in Tex-is December 23rd, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Brian Cashman (AKA: Brain) Has been pitching Tampa (Not the team) that offense is a major area of concern. This has nothing to do with pitching.. when you compartmentalize the issues and just say, “We are only going to focus on this single compartment” You end up lopsided.
Brain was not sure if he wanted his job back.. he took it back with the conclusion that the Yankees are going to go for it full-steam ahead.. just because you hear something in the press, doesn’t mean that is actually the thinking behind closed doors.
Of Brains strong points is that he can maneuver. The old tactic of “dis-information”.. keep every one focused on B before you attempt to attack A. Cashman has wanted a bat for a long time now..
he is about to get his wish.
———————-
Is that the post?
Pat M. you be careful with them there Percocets.
maxcz
December 16th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
@ray (sox fan)
oh really???
FYI, we juz beat lackey’s ass on the ALCS.. so i am not really afraid of ur signing of Lackey and Cameron
and Boof Bonser?? who???
——————————————————-
Easy there maxcz, I thought it was obvious I was just kidding.
Next postseason I’m auctioning off the rights to the screen name ” Lost in Fort LEE “
Everyone had Teixeira being fitted out in a Boston uniform last season. Heck, I did too.
I’d be all for bringing back Nick Johnson. Maybe he’ll be less injury prone if he’s just batting as opposed to also fielding.
“I agree with Chad in that I don’t see how Johnson makes the lineup “more flexible” but there is obvious appeal to having him batting in the 2 hole.”
When he’s right, few players have the plate coverage that Nick does. So if Girardi wants to play smallball (I don’t, but he seems to), Nick can do that in a way that Matsui can’t.
Cash might be secretly working on Holliday like he was with Teixeira last summer, but I think it’s unlikely. The rationale for spending big last summer was that the options this summer weren’t that great. For the most part, we’ve spent this summer’s money. Secondly, Holliday has some warts. He really struggled in the AL when he was with Oakland last year and he’s benefitted for years from hitting at Coors. Furthermore, he’s asking for a contract way beyond his value. If you’re going to spend Teixeria $, it makes sense to get a guy like Teixeira who’s a perennial MVP candidate. Holliday’s not that kind of player.
maxcz
I think ray (sox fan) was just joking. No need to attack. Call off the dogs!
I love Pete’s comments, on his next thread after the signing….
“Say this for the Yankees, money is apparently no object. You can expect howls of protest from across the country as Cashman adds yet another high-priced free agent. They now have the four biggest contracts in the game.
This will also teach me not to believe anything the Yankees say about living under a budget. It was only a few weeks ago Cashman said the idea of signing three big free agents was a fantasy. Sure thing. I was stupid to believe that.”
Boof goes the dynamite?
So the Hang up is that Boras represents both Holliday and Damon. And Boras has been trying to get a 3 year deal from the Yanks in order to try to please Damon, and because of the potential conflict with Holliday also wanting to go to the Yanks Damon had to be resolved first.
Now that a deal with Damon and Yanks looks unlikely and Damon feels he needs to move on of his own accord Boras can now move Holliday to the Yanks w/o throwing Damon under the bus.
That is how I interpreted
Lost’s message, and that is fascinating if true.
he further added that this could now occur as early as Fri. Surely before Xmas.
This person has to be either Boras, or someone who knows Boras really well because they are stating things that only the agent would know. IMO. Wow ! I am trying to contain my excitment. Not doing a very good job though.
I’d like to ask a question..
Do you people really believe that the Yankees are not interested in Matt Holliday because the media has not staked claim to that?
I know we are all information hounds, but c’mon.. the media is about leverage 101 (which includes when leverage doesn’t matter).
Perhaps all this Nick Johnson talk is directed towards Damon, who may now realize that his #2 spot in the order has a replacement.
Lost in Holliday Inn
“I go to NY a lot but live in Tampa.”
Wow. Just wow. I mean that, not sarcastically. I guess we can’t ask too much who you are.
I think Seattle is the “other team” for Johnny. Maybe Angels, but why? Where does Rivera go? RF?
Eric,
That was it – that and the one before it.
I mis-remembered how long the post was – I was only thinking of that last line.
“Furthermore, he’s asking for a contract way beyond his value. If you’re going to spend Teixeria $, it makes sense to get a guy like Teixeira who’s a perennial MVP candidate. Holliday’s not that kind of player.”
Ok, can we clear this up once and for all. Mark Teixera’s contract is for 180 million dollars over 8 years. Hollidays likely deal will be aroun 5 years at around 100 million dollars. Its not the same contract..
maxcz
Ray the Sox fan was joking–lay off him. The real trolls will return around April 4or 5, right before the season opener.
JJ
The founder of this blog remains bitter. Why?
Lost,
Honestly, yes. Unless there is buzz about us and a player (like Granderson for example), I don’t get excited because it is not worth getting excited about a player that may not even be on the GM’s radar. It is kind of fruitless.
When someone starts tweeting, “Yanks have started to pursue Holliday, according to sources”, then I will get excited.
“Do you people really believe that the Yankees are not interested in Matt Holliday because the media has not staked claim to that?”
No, I think they are interested.
They don’t call them mediots for nothing.
If Johnny really is prepared to move on or Boras has a nother deal lined up this thing is OVER. We get Holliday.
Bo Knows: I was just having a little fun with my previous question to Pat M, I enjoy your posts too. I’m not so worried about adding the Holliday contract, if they do so, he would be younger at its conclusion than Damon is today. We shall see.
We now have “Nick,I enjoy your posts more”. No Pat, I insist “I enjoy your posts more” Pardon the pun, This is like a virtual threeway. What comes after Alphonse, Gaston?
We are now in the Cold War stage of baseball. “I’ll see your servile Lackey and raise you a frabjous Holliday”.
Orioles signed Atkins too.
Lost in Boofville really doesn’t have that same oomph to it does it?
Yankees should shock the world Trade Joba & Hughes and montero for king felix. Then give Bay a 4 yr deal, and holiday a 5 yr deal. Break the bank for them.
The line up would be
1. SS Jeter
2. CF Granderson
3. LF Bay
4. 3B A-rod
5. 1B Texeira
6. RF Holiday
7. C Posada
8. 2B Cano
9. DH SWISHER
PITCHERS
Sabathia
Felix
AJ
Andy
Hughes
Yankees would win 28,29,30 and 31
Lost – are you an “insider”. If so, how involved are we in Holliday?
Holliday -in -
I have posted my “interpretations” of what you posted earlier. Is it fairly accurate ?
Ok Cashman…I’m gonna hold you to your words….A DH is an easy find….Let’s see if he’s as clutch lefty on lefty and MVP for the World Series. Cashman feels lucky that he got that ring after many unsuccessful attempts. And the big guy who got it for you, you let walk.
ray,
I think all of you folks in New England should feel much better about Theo’s “bridge” being a bridge to nowhere.
The sox strategy so far is interesting because for the second year in a row you guys have done something similar – only this year you executed much faster.
Last year the negotiations with Tex dragged on forever and the opportunity costs were enormous (I said this last year – you guys sign CC and you have the division for years…). But once Tex went to the yanks the Sox tried to bolster the team with run prevention (though tried to do so on the cheap…)
This year Theo moved off of Bay quickly and went to a run prevention strategy again only this time he did it in a more sound fashion with Cameron and Lackey (though his elbow is a real concern…)
Not sure if you guys make a run at beltre or play kotchman at 1b with youkilis at 3b but the defense will be better as will the pitching.
My bad I meant Yankees should shock the world Trade Joba or Hughes and montero
It is interesting how we are taught to automatically process everything we read, when it comes to the sports media.
For example, how many times have we seen, “Yankees are\are not in on (insert name), according to a major league executive familiar with the team’s plans”?
Have we even stopped to think how an executive from another team would know what Cashman was doing? Why would it benefit Cashman to tell another exec. his plans?
Yet we buy into it like it is the gospel.
I saw Holliday at Starbucks on 78th and lex today
If the Sox don’t get another bat I just don’t see how they are going to score runs. They won’t have to score many with that staff but still…
Being busy through the day I only now saw this Damon Standstill in Damon-NYY talks.He wants $13 m. a year;indicated through a conduit to team he doesn’t want an NYY offer if for less than that.
From the ESPN twitter scroll.
Add that to the looking around comment and it sure seems odd that he would push the Yankees that hard. Either he has a feeling he will be playing elsewhere and this gives a reason for the Yankees looking elsewhere themselves, or Johnny is figuring that the Yankees are desperate now.
Interesting.
I saw Vlad Gurrerro building a Snowman in Central Park this afternoon.
“I saw Holliday at Starbucks on 78th and lex today”
how so? you sure its him, maybe its someone that looks like him.
I think Holliday-In might be leaking info. from the Boras side not the Cashman side. Friend of Boras who happens to be a Yank fan. Friend of Holliday’s family ? Doesn’t really matter as long as the info. is accurate.
Abdababdaserser
Yeah, that was the comment Olney referenced on Kay’s show. Damon is delusional.
Blake…Percocets & Vicodins have been a part of my life for the past 15 years…I’m acutely aware of the dangers……Poor typing skills
Ed- I was kidding. When I saw jeter there this season no one believed me for some reason
Doris , did you ask him to hold your baby boy?
Good Bye Matsui. A Great Yankee. His legend will grow, deservedly.
We got Granderson, now I say we get Holliday and either:
Damon or Nick Johnson. Pick One.
I wasn’t trying to top Pat M, he definitely enjoys your posts more.
But I like the Cold War analogy. After we sign Holliday, NESPN can go all black (as previously suggested) and play funeral music as Soviet media did on the deaths of party chairman past.
Damon is either really dumb/naive/arrogant, or Boras is making Damon act that way, so that Cashman becomes annoyed with Damon and enters the Holliday sweepstakes because he needs some competition for St. Louis.
Of course, he could be screwing Damon out of what he really wants, but that is the deal you make when you enlist Boras. If he really wanted to be a Yankee, he wouldn’t let Boras manipulate him like that.
I am starting to think this is some ploy by Boras. Damon is looking pretty foolish.
If the Yanks do land Holliday the headlines will be”
Its a Granderson Holliday for the NY Yankees!
Ive really gotten into RAB lately. How many of you cats post over there as well, or it’s a Romeo and julliet type of thing?
Chad, I agree.
This interest in Johnson is pretty puzzling unless we are getting him in addition to Holliday.
Pat M.
“Percocets & Vicodins have been a part of my life for the past 15 years”
Sorry, man. That can’t be easy.
disregard Doris from Rego Park. She’s the one who said we were trading for Grienke at the deadline back in `08.
Dave D:
If by “insider” you mean, “Do I work for the Yankees?” the answer is no. I am just another anonymous drone and prefer to keep it that way.
I do know that the Yankees have a definite “interest”.
To what extent? Maybe I will know more tomorrow or Friday. I don’t have as much info on it as I did with Tex.
All I got was dead air on the Nick Johnson rumor as well. Doesn’t mean it’s not possible.
I don’t know anything more than I’ve posted already tonight.
“Ed- I was kidding. When I saw jeter there this season no one believed me for some reason”
Mark Feinsand
Orioles must smell blood with Halladay’s departure from Toronto. Signing of Gonzalez and Atkins show they’re making a big push for 4th place 4 minutes ago
The comments coming from Damon or someone attached to Damon are not very bright. Unless its smokescreen.
Trouble is there are so many things written that you start feeling like a ping pong ball trying to keep up.
Good evening CB,
I think you make some very good observations about the state of the Sox right now.
I’m not sure why but last year it didn’t seem like the Sox were all that interested in pursuing CC. Now Tex, that is a different story.
In my opinion the Yankee signing of Tex made a huge difference because had he not signed with you guys, he probably would have signed with the Sox.
Of course we still have at at least a couple months before pitchers and catchers report, but right now I am a bit concerned about the Sox offense. Ortiz is not the same, looks like Lowell will be gone, and perhaps Bay will be wearing a Met’s uniform next year.
Sorry, I’m not going to apologize for wanting the best players that can help our team (not necessarily stars, either). Fantasy baseball? Holliday happens to fit our needs very well – this would not be a matter of going out and getting a star just to say we got a star.
I remember Lost in Tex-as and he was very right about Tex. That said, I’ve learned my lesson – no longer will I ever believe anything about players wanting to play in NY. Rumors rumors rumors….If Holliday wants to play for the Yankees, he’ll have to take less (probably) than what he can get from the Cards. It’s hard to predict Cash and Hal – I have NO clue as to whether they like this guy or not. I know they want Damon, and Damon has the right to get the contract he wants, but I’ve had enough and I think it’s about time the Yankees move on.
Cash can not let Boras pull the strings, trying to get the Yankees to get desperate enough to either cave on Damon or throw their budget out the window with Holliday. IF the Yankees are interested in Holliday, just make an offer and that’s it. If he accepts it, then move on without Damon.
Just because the Yankees didn’t publicize going after Teixiera does not mean silence as to Holliday suggests they are going after him. The St. Louis paper said he wanted to return there if things were equal. Simply stated, though I wish it were otherwise, no evidence exists the Yankees have an interest in him. It’s simply our wishful thinking.
The Yankees likely believe Granderson replaces Damon and Johnson would replace Matsui. They are younger and cheaper, and that is the stated goal.
# Rich in NJ December 16th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
Pat M.
“Percocets & Vicodins have been a part of my life for the past 15 years”
Sorry, man. That can’t be easy.
____________
Well… there are some side benefits!
Seriously though, that is some potent chemicals, and no laughing matter if they are needed.
“Percocets & Vicodins have been a part of my life for the past 15 years”
Sorry about that man..
hahaha… just watching some local vermont news, and the anchor was talking about the red sox’s signings and showing video from the press conferences. He must not be a sox fan, because he was going on about Lackey and how he’s ‘no CC’, and then in response to Cameron’s quote that he hasnt been this excited to come to a new team since first getting to the majors, he quipped ‘yeah you won’t be saying that after you’re booed mercilessly during your first 0-10′ I thought vermont was supposed to be part of the nation! guess not haha
The problem is as as one poster mentioned earlier…….if NJ sits for Posada (or whomever), then you have to play a bad player in Posada or whomever’s place….That’s the same as a rotating DH. Of course, the Yanks could mitigate this by giving that player a full day off instead of a half – then that bad player is not in the lineup. On days that you want Posada’s (or Jeter, etc……) bat in the lineup, you sit Nick……..the rest can only help him.
RAB is a great site. A Must, Check Out Daily. The three guys are excellent. The posters are bright, witty and sometimes sound like the “Preacher and the Choir”. You hate to interrupt the rhytm. What if you’re not up on the latest Woba Ducky. Here is more kick back and shoot the breeze.
I think the comments from Damon are there to keep his price where he wants it while pushing the Yanks to look elsewhere.
Why would Damon want to push the Yankees to look elsewhere? Nobody is going to give him what he’s asking for.
I have a feeling that that the Yankees are in on Holliday especially since he has yet to say anything about the Cardinals offer. Why wouldn’t he accept it unless there was something else out there enticing him?
The fact that the ESPN guys refuse to mention Holliday and the Yankees in the same sentence tells me that they are secretly worried that something is brewing with them.
They aren’t scrambling for a replacement – the Yankees never made Matsui a priority. Scrambling implies that they expect him to sign and they are now shocked he’s gone – I doubt that’s the case.
Lots of evidence exists to suggest that the Yanks are interested in Holliday. But it’s all sort of circumstancial. It’s almost like knowing someone has something just by the presence of antibodies.
I absolutely love Holliday as a hitter, although I don’t see him as a Teixeira or ARod type player. I feel like he deserves around $14M respectively, but is asking for around $18/$19M, which is what I’d assume. I feel like that is a bit too high.
For what it is worth, I thought that the Yanks had the money to get Tex last year.
I don’t think that they will go for Holliday. Pre-Melky (who would likely be traded if we signed Holliday) payroll is at $192 million. Holliday would push it over $205 and lock the Yanks into another long term contract.
The offense will be fine if Cash signs a decent DH (like Johnson) and the defense will be much improved swapping Damon for Granderson.
If there is some money in the kitty, I’d sign another starter as insurance in case Hughes or Chamberlain can’t make it as starters.
This post from Wave last year on the day Tex signed is great:
Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2008 at 1:45 pm
IMHO, if the Yanks let Tex get on that plane to the Red Sox, we’ll regret it. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon, and for the rest of our lives.
Someday you’ll understand that.
Boof goes the Bonser, the Bonser goes Boof!
blake,
because he knows they already are looking elsewhere, and wants to make it seem like it was about not being able to make a deal, instead of the Yanks just wanting to replace an older player with a younger player, which it is.
I wasn’t a huge Holliday fan before, but to be fair – Oakland is a horrible place for a hitter. When the Yankees were there, I watched on tv and it was torture – I just wanted them to get as far away from that park as possible.
Lost in Holliday,
I believe the Yankees were into Holliday from the start no matter what Olney and the other goofs are saying. Theo and the Red Sox knew it too and that is why they walked away from Boras and his clients. They are not going to sign Beltre either. They are sending Boras a message that they are not goign to fall for his lies again like last year. You can bet they will trade Ellsbury too before his contract is up because Boras is his agent. Then who is left. JD Drew who is not going to be resigned and DiceK who they are going to let him walk after 2012.
Even though Cashman probably made the decision not to purse Matsui, it will be very sad not seeing him next year.
Watching the 2009 World Series DVDs, it will be sad not to see Hideki smash one, and Jeter at the top step to be the first to welcome him.
But why not take on a long-term contract on Holliday? Who else is worth it? We may not have a shot at Crawford if he signs an extension.
I spent all winter talking about how I didn’t want Tex…….then, when I heard about it at work, I practically flipped out. The only time that was more surreal for me was when I went out one morning and, while in the car, heard that we traded for Clemens. That was a shock of my lifetime.
Holliday is better than Crawford.
This site is a full service establishment “From the rediculous to the sublime”.
Assume for a minute that they sign Holliday. Melky or Gardner become expendable, correct?
So they play Holliday RF/Granderson CF/Melky RF-Swisher RF/DH?
Gardner is cheaper, but is not a switch hitter….so he gets traded. Packaged with some prospect for something else. What else? And what prospect? Not sure this is happening, but what if?
Phil, you’re probably right but I think he’s fooling himself if he thinks he’s getting 36 million dollars and I think he’s setting himself up for an Abreu deal from last year especially if Holliday goes to the Yankees.
Holliday would be great but if they go that route is there enough left in the till for another starter?
Betsy – high on pie
“I spent all winter talking about how I didn’t want Tex……”
I wanted him more than CC.
I have to be careful and keep my guard up. I got my hopes up about Halladay and was crushed…..Sometimes a rose is just a rose and sometimes silence means just that – no interest. IMO, Hal is unpredictable – I have no idea whether he will ok the $$$ or not. My guess is no.
Phil,
Good luck with that. Crawford is a superior player to Holliday. His defense is outstanding.
blake,
I think he must know of some other team that wants him.
Matcohen
SJ44 said that the payroll number right now the Yankees are telling agents is $177 million with Pettitte. That makes sense, if you consider the AAV of the contracts, not the actual paid value that year.
Thus, they want to keep the AAV under $200 million, IMO. AAV is used for the lux tax, which also IMO is their only real concern.
christina,
Holliday’s D is above average and he’s a much better hitter who makes a ton fewer outs on offense. But believe what you want to believe.
“Just because the Yankees didn’t publicize going after Teixiera does not mean silence as to Holliday suggests they are going after him. The St. Louis paper said he wanted to return there if things were equal. Simply stated, though I wish it were otherwise, no evidence exists the Yankees have an interest in him. It’s simply our wishful thinking.”
No concrete evidence may be available right now but evidence is only part of the story.
The main issue here is how does one draw a valid inference. Tangible evidence is part of that process – but only a part.
The foundation for valid inference is a solidly grounded hypothesis that evidence should test.
And the hypothesis that the yankees are likely to be interested in holliday given their needs and prevailing market conditions is a hypothesis with high face validity to it.
“Holliday would be great but if they go that route is there enough left in the till for another starter?”
I think that depends on a lot of things. It depends on what the actual budget is and if it is a hard or soft limit. It also may depend on whether they can backload the deal for Holliday if there is a hard limit, and it depends on the actual price tags of Holliday and the pitcher in question.
Rich, I wanted CC very much. Tex? I didn’t think he was worth that $$$……Now that I look back, my flipping out at work was very likely disbelief over joy, given that I expected Tex to sign with the Sox. I think my jaw dropped that day…..similar to the day when I heard Torre was flying to Tampa. I assumed it meant he was coming back…….then, when I heard he wasn’t……wow.
“Good luck with that. Crawford is a superior player to Holliday. His defense is outstanding.”
Try backing that up with the numbers. Holliday is a much better hitter and once Crawford’s speed starts to diminish so will much of his value.
Why is christina25 back? Are you enjoying 27 for Christmas, Christina? I hope you and your son/daughter enjoy the World Series videos!
Phil
I usually agree with you, but in this case, I have to believe that Crawford is better than Holliday. Crawford has power, can hit for average, has plate discipline, his defense, obviously his speed, can turn a single into a double every time. He can even turn singles into triples via the SB.
Pitt -
Maybe Gardner and a prospect to KC for Meche??
Phil, he could know of a team or he could be playing an ill-advised game of chicken.
I absolutely rather have Crawford as opposed to Holliday. Crawford would likely come cheaper too, which is an added bonus, but I believe is worth more.
Well, I was off on his plate discipline, as he walks only 4 percent of the time, or something to that effect.
christina25
Choose any aggregate metric you want, and Holliday comes out ahead.
Crawford steals more bases but Holliday has shockingly better numbers in most other categories. Crawford is better defensively but LF is an offensive position and Holliday is an above average defender. Crawford is only a year younger than Holliday and his game is much more reliant on speed which will start to diminish over the course of his next contract. Plus he may not even be available next year..he likes Tampa I hear.
Is the absence of evidence that the Yankees are not interested in Holliday proof that they are? Who knows, lol. I would just not be surprised if the Yanks got tired of Damon and his comments…….practically threatening the Yanks to completely walk if he doesn’t get $13 million? I find it hard to believe that the Yankees would cave. Cash is a tough dude.
Crawford is putting up good numbers facing tough pitching in the AL. Lets see how Holliday is going to fare. His swing have holes. Good pitchers are going to explore those holes. How can you say that his defense is above average? Did you forget that he dropped a routine fly ball that cost the cardinals the game? Or when in 2007 he was caught stealing because he was careless.
I’m not doing this again. Believe what ever you want about Crawford CR9, it’s a free country and you don’t have to care about metrics to enjoy baseball.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....cobar.html
WEDNESDAY, 10:52pm: Peter Greenberg, Escobar’s agent, informed FOX Sports’ Jon Paul Morosi that representatives from the Yankees and Twins were also at the throwing session (via Twitter).
http://www.fannation.com/si_bl.....g-teixeira
I remember reading this right after Boras said Tex was going to pick a team later in the afternoon.
I went crazy.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....zalez.html
Derek Lowe tells MLB.com’s Mark Bowman that he doesn’t expect to be back in Atlanta in 2010 and feels rather disrespected by being put on the trade market just a year after signing with the Braves: “I would have never even considered going there if I knew that ultimately this was going to happen.”
**Honestly? I don’t blame him. Lowe chose to sign with Atlanta, not some other team.
blake,
he shares an agent with Holliday and must know what’s going on. They wouldn’t ante up for Matsui who was “more of a Yankee” and coming off a better season. They said they wanted to get younger and more athletic and Johnny is getting older and less athletic. It was probably over for Johnny as soon as we signed Granderson.
I would love if Cash signs Holliday right before Christmas like last year. Merry Texmas, Happy Holliday! I foresee pinstripes in his future. Well, at least I hope so. I just think he’s worth it and there isn’t and won’t be anyone on the market that can match his ability. The addition of Holliday & Granderson > Damon & Matsui…even though I loved Matsui
“Did you forget that he dropped a routine fly ball that cost the cardinals the game?”
So you’re basing your argument on one play and that you think he has a hole in his swing. He actually has a nice swing from the right side and the stats say he is a plus defender.
We all know that Hal runs the Yankees day to day operations…I just wonder how much juice “The Old Man” still has ??? Being he was at the Organizational Meetings a few weeks ago…..It is still his dough..Makes one wonder if Hal runs these type of decisions past George ??? If Holliday was to be signed, the only other position to deal with next would SS in a few years….
I don’t look at LF, or RF for that matter, or any particular position as specifically an offensive, or defensive position. I base it all on the needs of the team. With our offense, I believe we can sacrifice minimal offense, for a little difference on the defense side, regardless of what position it’s in. However, our guys did well defensively last season, so it’s basically a crapshoot.
The only issue with Crawford is that you can’t not sign Holliday if the deal is right, to sign Crawford, because as was already mentioned, he might not even hit the market. However, if he does, put your money on having ever team in the majors, at the very least inquiring about him. He might also get traded to a bigger market before he hits free agency.
I like Gardner. At least the Gardner pre injury. As a rookie he was putting together a very nice season and looked like he would be a very nice addition in the future. I think Granderson plays better in LF, but that’s just me. Throwing Gardner out there for a Meche with his bad contract, very bad. Notice I’m not bad mouthing Melky.
A site wound up rating Grit as a better bet than Bay.
http://mvn.com/pendingpinstripes/
I rather have Crawford than Holliday. Did you forgot how Crawford made this catch that saved the All star game? He is a superior player period.
Holliday is a superior ball player to Crawford and over the length of a long term deal Holliday carries much less risk due to his skill set compared to Crawford’s.
In particular, Holliday has much better hitting tools. Crawford is a better defender but Holliday is a plus defender in LF.
And Crawford’s maddening refusal to play CF is a self-inflicted limit to his overall potential value. He’s the fastest player in the game – and he doesn’t play CF because he doesn’t like it.
Carl Crawford is a good ball player – but he’s gotten somewhat over rated over this past year. And at the same time people are being over confident about how much “cheaper” crawford will be next year compared to holliday this year.
Phil, I think the Matsui deal was pretty telling also. I just can’t see Cash letting him walk at that price unless he had something else in mind. Maybe Damon already knows the plan.
Pat M.,
Now that I think about it, you’re right. If we did sign Holliday. We basically have every position locked up. With the exception of RF (I’m sure swisher or an assorted variety of guys will do well) and the catcher situation is uncertain. Regardless of that, we would have All-Star caliber players locked up for the next several years. It’s crazy when you really think about it.
HOlliday did not blow that game – Ryan Franklin did. At the time, I didn’t even want Holliday. The poor guy took the brunt of the blame, but there were 2 outs. What, the closer couldn’t get 1 out before he gave up a bunch of runs?
Crawford shows up high on fantasy ranking because of his steals and people confuse that with real baseball. He’s good but Holliday is a much more complete player.
I’m not the only one who thinks Holliday has a hole in his swing. Keith Law said the same thing.
Christina25 is back. Turns out all of those self-inflated claims about only trolling on this blog because she was interested in what Pete had to say about the sox were lies.
Christina25 – have you posted any disgusting comments about children with birth defects recently?
He didn’t drop the ball. It hit him right in the jewels!
Christina25
“Crawford is putting up good numbers facing tough pitching in the AL. Lets see how Holliday is going to fare. His swing have holes. Good pitchers are going to explore those holes.”
v. Linceum: AVG: .310
v. Zambrano: AVG: .286
v. Hudson: AVG: .273
v. Oswalt: AVG: .333
v. Webb: AVG: .275
Care to reconsider?
How can you say that Holliday didnt blow that game? He dropped a routine fly ball.
Cristina25, so far your main arguments are that Holliday missed a flyball once, Crawford caught a flyball once and that you and Keith Law think Holliday has a whole in his swing.
I’m sold.
CB,
You don’t see Crawford being cheaper? The Yankees could also use a guy with his speed. The Yankees have it all, except for that one guy that can steal a lot of bases. I really do like Holliday, and I’m not picking one over the other, but Holliday stats could have been swayed a little by the ballpark. Now again, he didn’t hit an incredible amount of homers, his walk total has nothing to do with the park, and his average will probably translate to about the same in Yankees stadium, but I think Crawford puts up a fair fight.
Crawford can hold his own enough that the less offense you get from him as opposed to Holliday is made up by the fact that he plays a good defense, and can steal an immense amount of bases. It gives the other team a different look. The Yankees already have 5 Holliday type players. I really think Crawfords running game would add a different dimension to our team.
How can I say it? Again, there were two outs. Can Ryan Franklin get one out before he just trashes the game?
Christina25 doesn’t like Holliday because she thinks he had a birth defect when he was younger.
Keith Law has a hole in his head where his brain is supposed to be……
I think that they need someone to take at least 60 percent of the DH at bats even if they want to give people days off otherwise you’re going to turn Francisco into an everyday catcher (which who knows maybe fine). Plus he puts even more pressure on Damon to take make a deal because I don’t think it would exclude them from bringing him back. I bet it costs 5 or less million to do cant pass that up.
Crawford would steal less bases on the Yankees.
He’s an option if they don’t sign Holliday, or Damon for two years.
But Holliday is a better option.
blake,
with Cash at the helm, we haven’t really seen them pass up opportunities unless there were better ones waiting.
I had a birth defect when I was younger………fortunately, the hole in my heart closed up without me needing surgery. I say this so I can get sympathy from everyone – be gentle with me, lol.
Phil, lets hope that continues. You are right, when obvious moves like Holliday have been out there he has usually got it done.
Crawford is putting up good numbers facing tough pitching in the AL. Lets see how Holliday is going to fare. His swing have holes. Good pitchers are going to explore those holes.”
v. Linceum: AVG: .310
v. Zambrano: AVG: .286
v. Hudson: AVG: .273
v. Oswalt: AVG: .333
v. Webb: AVG: .275
—————————————————-
I don’t think I need to be privy to those hole explorations.
Okay, I think we need Holliday. Unless Teix and Swisher shorten their swings, Boston pitching will have our offense for lunch.
Crawford is not an option until next year – if then. The Rays are not dealing him to the Yankees…..they despise the Yankees.
Redsock troll badmouths Holliday as Holliday-to-NYY rumors percolate?
Shocker.
am I the only one that doesn’t want Holliday? have this feeling he’s going to be a bust if he signs w/ the Yanks or at least definitely not worth the $20 mil a year he wants….he’s not a Tex or AROD type player
Seems more like Christina25, the Red Sox fan is worried about the Yankees signing Holliday.
“You don’t see Crawford being cheaper?”
He’ll likely be cheaper – but that’s not the issue. Right now Jason Bay will be cheaper than Holliday. I’ve seen estimates that Crawford will go for 5/75M next year. So Bay is likely “cheaper” than crawford will be.
The real question is what the best value is based on the players skill set and how will that value hold up over the life time of a long term deal.
Crawford’s main value lies in his defense – as such he would be particularly attractive to the yankees because of how big left field is at the stadium.
But overall, crawford’s offensive game just doesn’t produce the same value as Hollidays – even if you factor out Coors. He just doesn’t have the bat skills or the strike zone commad Holliday does.
And a critical thing with Crawford is that so much of his value is tied to his legs – defense, steals, beating out hits (he always has a very high babip – which is the key to his batting average).
Once Crawford loses a step his game could decay in value very rapidly.
“am I the only one that doesn’t want Holliday? have this feeling he’s going to be a bust if he signs w/ the Yanks or at least definitely not worth the $20 mil a year he wants….he’s not a Tex or AROD type player”
Yeah, but what is a better option?
Betsy,
Christina25 would not like you then. She is on record stating her disdain for children born with congential hear disease.
Betsy,
I’m not sure anybody is demanding he come over, I believe it’s just a name being thrown around – for arguments sake.
HOWEVER, I can’t see the Rays organization as a while despising the Yankees enough to not want to make a deal with them if the package is right. Like in all seriousness, Phil, Joba, Cano, and Montero must seem pretty appetizing for a player in their walk year. …of course I’m only trying to make my point with that poor example of a trade.
“he’s not a Tex or AROD type player”
and he won’t be paid like them either. I just don’t see him as a bust type player. He’s a line drive hitter and a good athlete.
Christina25 – have you posted any disgusting comments about children with birth defects recently?
Are you kidding me? Why would I do such thing? My son has autism. Why would I of all people do something like this? My last post was days before Pete left.
Rich in NJ,
How about some numbers agaisnt AL pitching.
The reason I decided to post today was because I was hoping that lost in Holliday can give Boras a message from the Red Sox nation. Nobody believes what he is selling. The Red Sox are not stupid to fall in his trap again. Little by little his players are going to be traded or not resigned by the Red Sox. In the end he is going to lose money. If I was the Red Sox I will definetely will offer Ellsbury and Buchholz plus more for Adrian Gonzalez. He will be an absolute monster at fenway. You know what the plus thing is? Boras is not his agent.
Let’s say we don’t get Holliday. Who would you trade for to play LF and who would you give up?
“Are you kidding me? Why would I do such thing?”
No idea why you would do it – but you did and never owned up to it.
Did she really say that? I really don’t get why trolls of any teams would want to come to another team’s board just to get on the fans. What the heck kind of life does that person have? I love Dennis and Ray – Red Sox fans CAN be good people, lol. Seriously, I enjoy talking baseball with fans of other teams (esp. the Sox) because I get a different perspective on things……..
I’d like the Yanks to get Johnson. But I would prefer Josh over Nick.
CB, if the Yankees sign Johnson which it kinda looks like to me they are heading towards, does that tell you that the have went cheap on the DH so that they can spend money on Holliday or does that tell you that they are going cheap all together?
christina25
Don’t know much about sample size, huh? What’s the point of listing his work, good or bad, v. a pitcher who he has only faced 7 times.
Here’s a better question: Why do you post things that you have pulled out of um, thin air. Do some research first.
No one cares about the freakin’ RS.
Oh so christina25 is a Red Sox fan? Okay. Christina, God bless you and your son.
CB,
I completely agree, you pay the player based on his skill set, and the particular teams needs. I also agree that once he loses a step in his game, he is NOWHERE near the player he is right now. But that is a risk you take with any speedy player. That is why you can’t sign a guy based on only his legs for 8 years. That’ also why he won’t be worth as much as others that hit 30+ homers.
Again though, you will be paying more for Holliday because he IS the better hitter, but at this point in time, this team needs a guy with speed 5 years might be pushing it in my eyes, 4 years would be ideal with a 1 year option for Crawford, but regardless that is way ahead of time.
I just can’t see Holliday accepting $15M a year, and I feel that’s what he’s really worth.
My heart – it’s just not happening. The Sox and Yanks would never trade with each other, the Jays wouldn’t trade Doc to the Yanks…….there’s way too much bad blood. That’s even without evaluating whether I would go all out for Crawford….
“dee December 17th, 2009 at 12:18 am
“am I the only one that doesn’t want Holliday? have this feeling he’s going to be a bust if he signs w/ the Yanks or at least definitely not worth the $20 mil a year he wants….he’s not a Tex or AROD type player”
Yeah, but what is a better option?”
what’s wrong w/ Melky in LF than either Damon or Johnson as DH? then get one more starter…I think the offense will be fine
If the Yanks sign Johnson and then Holliday, I would just consider too very smart decisions.
CB,
you are making up stories here. I never ever posted anything about kids with birth defects. You know what? Sam can confirm if I ever did anything like that. He has my ip number from the computer just by visitng. He can definetely tell if that was me who posted those things and then he can ban me. I challenge him to do that and clear my name.
Holliday + Johnson would equal just a nasty lineup if they all stayed healthy.
Phil,
I think that would be a dream, in a sense. We would have an absolutely relentless offense. Swisher would BY FAR be our worst hitter, yet he would be the 3rd or 4th best hitter on any other team.
I’m not worried about the Yankees getting Holliday. He is going be another overpaid spoiled athlete. I never wanted him in the Red Sox anyway. I rather have Crawford. If the Red Sox get Crawford and Mauer next year I will be very happy.
“I’m not worried about the Yankees getting Holliday. He is going be another overpaid spoiled athlete.”
You are so lucky that you root for a team of saints.
“If the Red Sox get Crawford and Mauer next year I will be very happy.”
Well until the sox get Mauer (haha) the rest of baseball is going to steal them blind next year with Victor and Vtek back there.
christina,
funny you should bring up spoiled. Why doesn’t Carl Crawford play centerfield, which would have helped his team all these years?
blake,
I think they are exploring all options right now. I think the Johnson thing is independent (or only tangentially related) to what they want to do in LF.
I do not believe their operating plan right now is to sign johnson and have melky play LF.
Might turn out that way – but I just don’t see them doing that.
I think their interest in johnson is related to johnson’s skill set (albeit fragile ones…), contract requirements, and age.
Remember – that king story came from Johnson’s agent not the team. Every agent wants it out there that the yanks are interested so who knows what the real story is.
People like Crawford because he is fun to watch. When he gets on first it is exciting. However, in the grand scheme of things SB are vastly overrated. Guys like Crawford who go all out on defense and steal bases often get overpaid and a few years into the contract when the guy slows down a bit you regret it big time. Juan Pierre is a classic example. Granted Crawford has more power and talent than Pierre, I would not be surprised at all if Crawford’s contract got real ugly the last few years.
While Holliday is less boring he would have far more impact on the offense and on this team.
my heart beats, etc…
actually, I’d tell Cano he’s batting 9th until he gets his OBP North of .360.
LOL The Sox don’t have a clubhouse full of them……only Yankees are overpaid and spoiled.
Christina25,
Give me a break. You know exactly what you said. You’re the same person who has been claiming over and over that the only reason you visit this blog isn’t to troll but because you want to see what pete is writing about the sox.
Yet here you are.
Here’s a hint:
boston.com. You can go bother pete there.
I’m pretty sure no Yankee has ever thrown down a Yankee travel secretary.
Ok ladies and gentlemen and trolls, I must go to bed. Gnight all..
Holliday will not sign until Bay does, as he’s better than Bay and will need Bay’s salary as baseline for his own.
Johnson could be the best remaining option for DH. Watch him get hurt running to 1st base.
8:00pm: Edes tweets that the Orioles “made a pretty good run” at Gonzalez during the Winter Meetings. It seems clear that Gonzalez has the potential to spark quite a bidding war.
“what’s wrong w/ Melky in LF than either Damon or Johnson as DH? then get one more starter…I think the offense will be fine”
I just don’t see Cash going that route. At all. Melky had a great year, but there is no guarantee of a repeat. We don’t know what we will get with him. I like Melky…a lot. But as 4th OF option. I don’t think he will be our starting LF. I also think Cash signed Hoffmann knowing that he was going to get rid of either Melky or Gardner. Why wouldn’t he have chosen a pitcher from the draft? I think Cash has grander plans than Melky starting as our LF’er.
Via MLBTR
More good news, unless Edes is just spewing the Red Sox propoganda.
Bay will probably sign with the Mets tomorrow.
Btw, did we ever find out if anyone is actually willing to give Damon a 3/4 yr offer? Or is he still delirious?
Baltimore has this thing for lefty closers.
I can imagine how the MSM would spin it if the Yankees were trying to pilfer Gonzalez from the small market Padres.
Baltimore closers the last few years:
BJ Ryan
George Sherrill
Mike Gonzalez
I see I missed much discussion this evening/tonight.
Did Atlanta and Angels ever consumate that Derek Lowe for Juan Rivera trade that was being discussed?
dee
If Damon really had a four year $13m per year contract offer as he claims, there would have already been a presser.
Sign Randy Winn cheap off a bad year — switch-hitter bats 2nd — plays all 3 outfield positions — decent speed. Miranda and a rotation of rest for others at DH.
Try to get a 4th starter — move Joba to the pen.
or…
Sign Matt Capps — leave Joba in the rotation.
The Edes tweet on Adrian Gonzalez is what I find so funny about Red Sox fans right now. Gonzalez is a superstar right now with virtually no salary commitment the next 2 years. There are not many hitters in the game right now who provide more value relative to their contract. If he becomes available teams will be lining up to trade for him, yet Red Sox fans think he will only be available to them.
Latest Tweet
RT: @Ken_Rosenthal: New Holliday suitor. Go to FOXSports.com/mlb. Story will be up shortly. // YOU ARE SUCH A TEASE, KEN.
DaSaint,
No movement on that trade. Sounds like it was very premature.
If I were the angels I would really try to make a deal for Javy Vazquez instead of Lowe. Atlanta’s preference is to trade Lowe but they’ve entertained the idea of needing to move Vazquez because Lowe’s contract is so prohibitive.
lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins)
Thats the the thing with some Red Sox fans. They think that Adrian Gon. belongs to them and that no other team would be willing to pursue him. They always complain about the Yankees being the “Evil Empire” but they have become what they hate.
If I was Hoyer I would not accept that sorry package of players that Theo is putting out there.
I was such a big Javy Vazquez proponent when the Yankees were considering getting him. So much talent, but a deer in headlights in the big city.
Ken Rosenthal–who is the “new suitor?”
Knowing you, it’s the Nationals or the Mets….ha, ha.
Don’t think so…more pinstriped, perhaps? Although Mets have pinstripes, don’t they?
Any ideas who Rosenthal is referring to? Yanks?
You guys all sound like George Costanza!
CB-
What happens when the same agent represents two players who want to go to the same team to play the same position ?
Obviously both cant be accomodated. The only fair way for the conflict to be resolved is for one or both of the FA’s to move on of there own free will or be convinced by the agent that an offer is not likely to come.
I believe that Damon did not receive any offer from the Yanks at all, and that this was intentional on the part of the Yankees.
They want him to move on but they do not want to just come out and say we dont want you we want Holliday. Too tacky.
So everyone involved needed to wait for Damon to come to this conclusion on his own. I think he now has. This means that the Yanks can now persue Holliday w/o any further complications involved which was the purpose of not making Johnny an offer in the first place.
I hope they match the cards best offer because if they do i now see nothing in our way. there was a conflict before there may not be one now.
Does this make any sense to you ?
“Any ideas who Rosenthal is referring to? Yanks?”
The Orioles
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....s-holliday
“Any ideas who Rosenthal is referring to? Yanks?”
I hope lol. The only thing it says “new suitors”, so I guess it’s a possibility since they never considered themselves suitors before. Then again, it could mean anyone not named Mets or St. Louis.
DaSaint007
Maybe, but unlike most stars who came to NY, who had a very difficult period of transition in their first April in NY as they get acclimated to the pressure, Vazquez was at his best in April of 2004: ERA: 2.55, BAA: .183.
I think the problem was arm trouble. Vazquez led the NL in Abuse Points in 2003. It probably affected him in 2004, and beyond.
MTU…Very good point, as I’m certain that is or was part of the equation….Granderson coming to NY was also a very strong message as well…
“Obviously both cant be accomodated. The only fair way for the conflict to be resolved is for one or both of the FA’s to move on of there own free will or be convinced by the agent that an offer is not likely to come”
A conflict of interest only becomes an issue if it isn’t disclosed. Boras’s clients know that he represents other clients whose interest may collide with their own. Yet they choose to stay with him, rightly or wrongly, for one reason: they trust him to get the best deal possible.
Rich-
I think you are missing my point.
I read a rumor that the Yanks were entertaining a trade with Lowe, sending Swish to the Braves. All I have to say is that Swish better not go anywhere. I love the guy. And is Lowe even worth it?
Damon to O’s, Holliday to Yanks, or vice versa?
What are Damon’s numbers in Camden Yards?
We can’t let the O’s get Holliday.
I read a rumor that the Yanks were entertaining a trade with Lowe, sending Swish to the Braves. All I have to say is that Swish better not go anywhere. I love the guy. And is Lowe even worth it?
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Source? I very much doubt the yankees were entertaining anything like that.
Pat-
It is like two objects trying to occupy the same space at the same time. One must give way for there to be a resolution.
Orioles hey… Bummer.
I understand there is no need to panic, we have a great team. It’s just nice to hear about free agent signings. Gimmie something Cash, even a new ballboy that we can call a press conference for.
Just something to take my mind off Hideki and Boston…
I don’t know how trustworthy it is, but I just remember reading it.
http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....n-guerrero
MTU,
The situation you described isn’t that unusual for agents as a whole – especially for Boras given how many people he represents.
I’d guess it’s much worse with things like the entertainment industry when two actors might be up for the same part.
It’s generally true for lawyers in large firms as well.
Boras’s involvement with both players is transparent – so that keeps it above board. How things play out in private is a different issue.
People were saying the same thing last year when boras was representing Tex and Manny. Tex goes to the yanks rather than the sox Manny’s market collapses. We know how that turns out.
Ultimately, boras has a fiduciary responsibility to do what’s in his clients best independent interest.
I do think all parties are trying to make sure Damon does fine in this situation. I don’t think Boras is engaging in some complex scheming that spills over into malfeasance.
Word of that would get out very quickly and not even boras would be able to withstand that.
Not, Hideki to Boston… Just the two separate situations (Matsui-Angels & Sox-Lackey/Cameron)…
Maybe I can cheer up by reading how we get to face Cliff Lee more now that hes back in the AL…
If the Yanks are really at “just” 177 mil now, then
Holliday
Sheets
Done.
“We can’t let the O’s get Holliday.”
I don’t see it. This is the O’s trying to get back some good will with their fanbase again.
Their pitching is so bad – they aren’t even close to contention in the AL east. Holliday would be a huge waste of resources for them.
Their OF is actually shaping up very nicely.
I don’t know how trustworthy it is, but I just remember reading it.
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Its not trustworthy at all, its the bleacherreport. Also it doesn’t even quote anyone, even anonymously. Its just a fanblog that posted a stupid fan suggestion.
The yankees would never trade Swisher for Lowe. Melky for Lowe maybe, but they passed on Lowe last season why would they go after him this season? Especially after how bad he looked?
They saw first hand how bad he was when they knocked him out in like the 3rd inning with 5 runs
Sign Jermaine Dye…
He would make the lineup MUCH better…
Melky 4th outfielder…can play against tough lefties; spell Swisher
Sign Jermaine Dye…
He would make the lineup MUCH better…
Melky 4th outfielder…can play against tough lefties; spell Swisher
Sign Jermaine Dye…
He would make the lineup MUCH better…
Melky 4th outfielder…can play against tough lefties; spell Swisher
dee
Wow. Very interesting.
It wouldn’t be Swisher, and they’d demand a lot of dough from the Braves and it’s just too many years.
Sorry about that…
I left out signing Damon!
Jermaine Dye is done. He sucks in the field and his O is declining.
“Its not trustworthy at all”
Yeah I didn’t think so at all. But if Lowe didn’t have such a bad contract he wouldn’t be a terrible idea. I would much rather get Sheets or Justin D. though.
Cb-
I wasn’t trying to say that. I was merely pointing out that it was impossible for two players to be able to go to play the same postion for the same team, and that that was a conflict preventing either from getting the position until one moves on.
Damon has moved on and so now that position is open to holliday.
I dont think Boras could have presented both of those players to the yanks at the same time and said which one would you like. I cant see how he could do that and still be being fair to both.
They both were after the same position. That is a conflict. Even if they both knew about each other I cant imagine their agent doing that. Am I wrong ?
Maybe Damon has now dropped out allowing Holliday to enter.
Jermaine Dye is so terrible I should post this 3 times as well.
Thats the the thing with some Red Sox fans. They think that Adrian Gon. belongs to them and that no other team would be willing to pursue him. They always complain about the Yankees being the “Evil Empire” but they have become what they hate.
First, that is exactly correct. And Boston’s behavior is the height of arrogance.
Second, they have become what they and the media portrayed us to be, not necessarily what we were or are.
I do not remember a time when the Yankees decided they wanted a superstar player from another team, manipulated the media, and then took him for potatoes. I might have selective memory…
I would have gone afer Lowe some years ago, but not now.
I could see Swisher traded to ATL instead of Melky because of salary, which I’m believing more and more is a serious concern.
I’m not sure we get Holliday or Damon. I don’t see Holliday as an AL guy. He knows and prefers NL pitching, as that’s where he’s had the most success. Why mess with that now? And for all those who say that St. Louis isn’t serious because they can’t then pay Pujols, I beg to differ. If they can’t show that they want to be in contention by building a competitive lineup, AP may reconsider. St. Louis can afford 5 years @ $18 million, plus 8 years @ $25 million to Pujols. Just remember who owns the team.
Frankly, I think we’re done in the OF/DH, at least for now.
I think the concentration is trading for a starter or maybe a reclamation FA or 2: Bedard and Sheets.
Too bad Jason Kubel isn’t trade bait. I wouldn’t mind him for DH. lol
Pat-
Below was taken from an earlier post by Lost in Holliday. I believe he has inside knowledge. He might be the same guy who clued us in about Tex last year.
Boras wants to make Damon happy, but it looks like it is not going to be in NY. Still possible? Sure..
Doesn’t want to piss Damon off and push Holliday to Yankees.
Everybody’s pointing the finger, but nobody is taking action.
Jermaine Dye sucks?
As a DH?
Last 2 years…
34/96/292….27/81/250
How about Thome for a 1 year DH?
He’d make up for Matsui’s power loss…
MTU
“Rich-
I think you are missing my point.”
My bad.
If this team is trying to get younger, more versatile, and not have the DH slot locked up by an actual position DH, then Vlad and Thome make so sense.
For that, we would have, I believe, just signed Matsui.
Matsui is a better hitter than both of those, and for only 6.5 million, that is peanuts.
I like the idea of Johnson. because he is a obp machine and would fit in the 2 hole. Healthy is a concern but he wouldnt have to play the field.
Nick Johnson would be a great signing for the Yankees but I don’t really see why he would want to come here. At most he’d sign a 2 year deal at probably less than 10 million a year. He’d be stuck at DH for the majority of his games which would decrease his future earning potential. He needs to join a club, any club, and play first base for the next year or two to prove he can stay healthy.
With his bat and fielding skills he will probably get a big deal a year or two down the line. Signing with the Yanks would only showcase his bat.
He has a chance to win and also has ties to the Yankees.
Holliday is the perfect fit for the Yanks,,,As said before, he’ll hit 5th ( great coverage for Alex ) and he upgrades the defense….Unlsee Cashman plans on movey Melky ( value is high ) there is no need for Nick Johnson, as Swisher, Mirander and as per Cashman’s desire to rotation at the DH position….Melky in right would give the Yanks the best outfield since maybe 1998…That’s defensivley as well as Offensively……I think it very well may happen……Yanks outfield defensively last season was the weak kink….Granderson & Holliday would be a great upgrade
Remember Cashman’s own words, “if it fits , and it makes sense ” then I will make that move…..Matt makes sense in left and hitting 5th…..
Signing Nick Johnson is stupid….the guy gets injured sitting down watching tv.
Phil
December 16th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
You guys know that Miranda’s injured right now, right?
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What makes you think that Johnson didn’t get hurt today when he was carrying in the groceries?
Johnson’s an ok player, but, he was never that great of a first baseman. He has an annoying habit of short arming the throws to him, and his main skill is walking, and as a DH, those walks ain’t scaring anybody.
If the Yanks sign Nick Johnson as DH and don’t sign Matt Holliday, who the heck bats 5th and protects A Rod?
What happened to Cashman’s we got too get younger and more athletic
Nick Johnson is overweight..has about 5 chins. 31 yrs old. very injury prone on a Pavano level, and cant field anymore than Matsui
“Yanks outfield defensively last season was the weak kink…”
I thought the weak kink was the Melky/Mary Carey interview.
I don’t like Boras in the least, but he is not stupid. If he sends Holliday to the Yankees, he is NOT throwing Damon under the bus and Damon knows it. Damon got $52m for 4 when no one really expected it, and from his point of view, he has to thank Boras for that.
From Boras’s perspective, he has dealt with a number of teams down through the years: Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Mariners, Angels, Tigers, Dodgers and in the draft, the Royals. He has already alienated the Angels and Dodgers to the point where they won’t deal with him, and he has apparently done the same with Boston. He needs the Yankees, otherwise, he risks the market for his clients collapsing, and possibly his influence right along with it.
Hip hip… Jorge! He’s right on the money about the pen and a starter. http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....yanks.html
Chad
Matsui leaving the Yankees is now news in the Netherlands.Check it out and try to translate:
http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesp.....tml?p=10,3
Holliday is not coming to the Yankees. Money in the Nick Johnson range is where the Yankees are at. They are happy with patching a few has beens into their lineup. Wake up everyone.
Get it straight….The Yankees are shopping the blue light specials at KMart…not at Tiffany’s. They are cutting salary not adding. Maybe they are tired of supporting everyone else.
The Yanks dropped the ball on his one. With Granderson in the fold, they should have resigned Matsui.
Only two seasons under a .400 OBP. Need we say more??
Too funny. Boston signs a 37 year old center fielder and now the Boston slugs like Little Ricky slip out from under the rocks and declare victory.
GB7
you are up early- hopefully that means you are feeling better.
So far the socks have improved their pitching which was already their strength but they are currently worse offensively. They have a really good staff but I think they are going to struggle at times to score runs unless they make another move for a quality bat.
Mike Cameron served a 25 game suspension for failed drug test , before the 2008 season.He operates under the Ortiz mantra, “It must’ve been something in my supplements.”
upstate kate
December 17th, 2009 at 7:32 am
GB7
you are up early- hopefully that means you are feeling better.
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Morning, Kate. I had to get up. They threatened to have my nurse, Mrs. Boris Karloff give me a bath if I didn’t do it myself.
GB7–No smoking today. The urge will go away even if you don’t smoke. Trust me, it will be better in a week. I’m remembering. I too hope you are feeling better.
GB7
Ah, I can see why you are up, that sounds nasty
I’m not too concerned about them picking up Lackey. He replaces a pitcher that won the same amount of games. That’s no way to pick up the 8 games they finished behind NYY.
Anyone saw the picture of Matsui in Angels red? Almost made me sick to the stomach. Such a bad move letting him go.
austinmac
December 17th, 2009 at 7:54 am
GB7–No smoking today. The urge will go away even if you don’t smoke. Trust me, it will be better in a week. I’m remembering. I too hope you are feeling better.
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Thanks, Mac. The urge to have a cigarette is passing. Now, I’d rather have a cigar. It’s a hard cycle to break. I’d rather have a butt whoopin’.
upstate kate
December 17th, 2009 at 7:55 am
GB7
Ah, I can see why you are up, that sounds nasty
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Yeah, no kidding. I hear her dragging her size 18 foot down the hall and I feel like running away from home.
BostonDirtDogs seems more excited about the beautiful Krista Lackey than her ugly husband…it appears they are still upset about Tex’s wife dissing Boston
Anyone saw the picture of Matsui in Angels red? Almost made me sick to the stomach. Such a bad move letting him go.
-It made me sick also. But i think it was the right move.
Signing Nick Johnson for one year (if the Yankees can get him for one year) isn’t a bad idea. Let him try to put up big numbers at DH for us and try to get a bigger contract next year.
Meanwhile, don’t commit any more $$$ to this free agent class. The current free agent class is a B or C rated class. Next year’s class is an A+ class. Save the $$$ for next year’s class. Also, recognize that some of the guys in next year’s class will be available at the trade deadline as “rents” when their teams drop out of the pennant race. If the Yankees have the $$$ and some prospects they could get one or two of those guys in July.
Quote:Chad
Matsui leaving the Yankees is now news in the Netherlands.Check it out and try to translate:
http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesp…..tml?p=10,3
________________________________________________
It means something like: Awesome Free Agent Signing for the Angels! at the end of the article they sumerise the career of Godzilla!
Also, you can’t run a team just trying to block another team. It would be poor business for the Yankees to make a move based on what the Sox are doing….nevermind the O’s. We don’t even know if the Yankees like Holliday or if Hal will even give the green light to another big contract.
The Nick Johnson idea is a backup plan to Johnny Damon. IF Damon doesn’t sign , we go after Nick,
When he’s healthy , Nick is the best fill in for Damon.
Hi OBP , can hit . has some pop , fit perfectly in the 2 slot
GB
Keep a stash of sugar free lollipops around for when the urge hits. Worked for me.
I still on occasion walk slowly past an office building at lunch time to get a second hand smoke contact high though.
One of the added bonuses is if you have lollipops, you’ll be the twins favorite person in the world when they are old enough to realize what they are.
I think it would be great for baseball and our divison if the O’s made a strong push for Holliday !
That franchise needs something !
I don’t get the “he’s an AL or NL guy” with hitters…….. It makes a huge difference with pitchers changing leagues, but hitters? I don’t see it at all. Most hitters make their dime off of killing mediocre/bad pitchers (for most of the time, anyway) and there are mediocre/bad pitchers in the AL – they aren’t limited to the NL
Anyone saw the picture of Matsui in Angels red? Almost made me sick to the stomach. Such a bad move letting him go.
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How do you think the fans of the Tokyo Yamayuri Giants felt seeing Matsui put on Yankee pinstripes the first time. This is typical for baseball in the free agent era…get used to it.
Jorge should pipe down – he’s not the GM and Cash knows what he’s doing, better than Jorge does.
Good job El Duque
Wait, so Holliday wants to play in Baltimore ? Hmm, I thought he wanted to play for the Yankees…Did he grow up in MD? Ah, his friend, Garrett Atkins is now on the O’s……..I can see that team making a push.
pat
December 17th, 2009 at 8:13 am
GB
Keep a stash of sugar free lollipops around for when the urge hits. Worked for me.
I still on occasion walk slowly past an office building at lunch time to get a second hand smoke contact high though.
One of the added bonuses is if you have lollipops, you’ll be the twins favorite person in the world when they are old enough to realize what they are.
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Great idea, pat. The problem with lollipops are that they aren’t as big as they used to be. Love the chocolate and red Tootsie Pops. There’s not as much Tootsie Roll center as there used to be. The twins will have to buy their own with their allowance. They ain’t gettin’ mine.
Drive 4-5
December 17th, 2009 at 5:29 am
Hip hip… Jorge! He’s right on the money about the pen and a starter. http://www.nydailynews.com/spo…..yanks.html
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That’ a great article. I love Posada
Proposed lineup for 2010:
1. Granderson-CF
2. Jeter-SS
3. Johnson-DH
4. Arod-3B
5. Teixeira-1B
6. Posada-C
7. Cano-2B
8. Swisher-RF
9. Cabrera-LF
Moving Teixeira behind Arod in the lineup is a move that wouldn’t be unprecedented as Roger Maris and Mickey Mantle were switched in the lineup after the 1960 season.
Betsy,
Cashman routinely seeks out Jorge, Jeter and Mo for input on players.
They have a very good relationship.
Am0s Moses
December 17th, 2009 at 7:58 am
Anyone saw the picture of Matsui in Angels red? Almost made me sick to the stomach. Such a bad move letting him go.
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I haven’t looked yet. That’s not something I’m eager to see.
Baltimore would have a rough time fitting into a three man outfield. They already have Jones, Reimold and Markakis with Pie, Scott and Wgginton backing them up. You don’t pay $18 mil a year to DH and a bench player, and they arenot moving Reimold to a DH spot.
Baltimore would have a rough time fitting ***Holliday*** into a three man outfield
new thread
SJ, I can see him seeking out Mo and Jeter because I’m sure they put a lot of thought into it. For me, Jorge is an emotional guy and often speaks or acts without thinking (like in that fight with the Jays). I personally would not trust his judgement. Cash would love another starter, Jorge isn’t breaking new ground there. A reliever? While I am not happy with the pen, a LF is more important.
Baltimore would have a rough time fitting into a three man outfield. They already have Jones, Reimold and Markakis with Pie, Scott and Wgginton backing them up. You don’t pay $18 mil a year to DH and a bench player, and they arenot moving Reimold to a DH spot.
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If they signed, Holliday the Orioles would proabbly trade one of their current outfielders for a pitcher. They need pitching badly.
It’s either Holliday or Damon but not both. It’s either Nick Johnson, Nick Swisher, or Juan Miranda as DH but only one of them.
It’s either Hughes or Joba in the starting rotation but not both.
It’s either a proven innings eater ( ? ) or a rehabbed project ( ? ) but not both.
Batting Jeter in the # 2 spot will increase his GDIP,don’t you remember?
Doesn’t anybody think that the issue is stronger starting pitching? I don’t get all this raving/ranting about Holliday/Bay/Johnson/Nixon/Jerry Lewis et al. Boston’s rotation looks very tough right now. Holliday or Bay isn’t going to make up for those wins.The depth of pitching is very scary..Hughes and Joba on the back-end? and Andy a year older? We need ssome relaible innings from somewhere..Marquis, Pinerio, someone! Cash, forget about Damon and Johnson and go get some starting pitching now!!
This is where the exotic stats go wrong. Do not sign Nick Johnson. Some basic stats:
-An average of 85 games played per season over 9 year career.
-No season over 147 games played and only 4 seasons over 100 games played.
-Missed all of 2007 and played 38 games in 2008.
-An average of 57 games played over the last 3 years.
-Career highs aren’t very high: hrs is 23, rbi 77, avg. 273.
When he plays, which is not very often, he gets on base but does very little else. Doesn’t drive runs in, has never really had the power that some seem to think he might regain and has no speed. Doesn’t run the bases well and provides no real flexibility other than some days at 1B.
Do you sign him for his potential at this point in his career–no. Do you sign him for stats that mean nothing respecting how little he has played–no. Do you sign him because he wears high socks like the old timers–no.
You don’t sign him. No need to take the risk for marginal reward.
I like Nick but I wouldn’t want a Giambi #2. Even with a short contract it’s just not worth paying a guy to sit in the DL half of the year.
I feel like I’m completely out of the loop in asking this but….. why not try and bring back Xavier Nady? isn’t that a much more affordable/flexible option?
Why isn’t anyone mentioning Brian Giles? We should also sign DeRosa.
This is the problem when you have an accountant masquerading as a GM. He thinks he’s done his job when he’s aved a couple of nickels. Go grab Marquis, Bedard, Sheets before they get away!