The building, and re-building, of a farm system
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 16, 2009 
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This post is about the Yankees, but it needs to be about the Phillies first.
Heading into 2007, the Phillies minor league system was a mess. Chase Utley, Ryan Howard and Cole Hamels had graduated to the big leagues, and the rest of Philadelphia’s high-end talent was buried in the lower levels. First-round pick Greg Golson’s stock was slipping. Tim Moss was playing his way out of baseball. Scott Mathieson needed Tommy John (twice). Gavin Floyd desperately needed a change of scenery, which he got. Within a year, Michael Bourn and Mike Costanzo would also be traded, and within the next two years, seven more prospects would be traded for Joe Blanton and Cliff Lee.
Heading into 2010, just three years after their system was such a wreck, the Phillies were able to trade for Roy Halladay without losing their top prospect, Dominic Brown.
Philadelphia’s system improved quickly because the Phillies took a chance on Brown’s signability in the 20th round of the 2006 draft, because J.A. Happ basically reached his best-case scenario, because Kyle Drabek came back strong after Tommy John surgery, because some international signings added depth, and because several high school draft picks played well after turning pro.
You can see some of the same things happening in the Yankees’ system.
Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and Brett Gardner have graduated to the big leagues. Recent first-round picks Eric Duncan and C.J. Henry have played themselves out of the organization. Andrew Brackman, Chris Garcia, Alan Horne, Dellin Betances, George Kontos and J.B. Cox have needed surgery. Trades for Xavier Nady, Damaso Marte, Nick Swisher and Curtis Granderson have cost considerable major-league-ready talent.
But the Yankees still have one of baseball’s premier prospects in Jesus Montero. Their system as a whole is a middle-of-the-pack group with a lot of high-end talent lurking in the lower levels. It’s not an elite minor league system, but it’s deep, and it’s awfully good for a team that has traded away prospects and consistently drafted late in the first round.
The Yankees’ upper-level pitching depth has been somewhat replenished by the development of Zach McAllister and Ivan Nova. Front-line pitching talent seems to be emerging from the international signings of Manny Banuelos and Arodys Vizcaino, and possibly from the 10th round draft selection of D.J. Mitchell. The Yankees’ recent draft focus on college pitchers – a significant difference from the Phillies’ recent draft strategy — has brought some arms that could move quickly if things continue to go well.
Brackman was part of that focus on college pitchers, and the former first-round pick has a Drabek-like ceiling — possibly higher – if he can have a Drabek-like comeback from Tommy John. Mark Melancon has already come back from the surgery, and there is hope pitchers Betances, Horne, Garcia, Kontos and Jairo Heredia can have their own comebacks from injuries.
There aren’t many highly touted position prospects in the system, but the Yankees have focused on the positions where they might need help in the next few years. They have a ton of catchers who could eventually replace Jorge Posada, and they have two high-end, lower-level outfielders in international signee Kelvin DeLeon and first-round pick Slade Heathcott.
Baseball America has released its list of top 10 Yankees prospects. There’s another, considerably different list at The Hardball Times. Pinstripes Plus has its yearly can’t-miss list of the top 50 Yankees prospects. Before the Granderson trade, John Manuel at Baseball America ranked the Yankees in the top half of all minor league systems, and my guess is they’re still in that group, hovering somewhere around the middle of all 30 teams.
The Yankees have been forced to re-build the system time and again, but they’ve been aggressive on the international market, generally pretty smart in the draft, and they’ve built enough organizational depth to see an impact at the major league level while talent continues to rise from the lower levels.
Phil-
Good info you are putting out there, Cashman seems to be in stealth mode.
Maybe I was mislead or misremembered (LOL) but I would think the Yanks Farm system was a little higher than middle of the Pack
Baseball America PROJECTED 2013 LINEUP
Catcher Austin Romine
First Base Mark Teixeira
Second Base Robinson Cano
Third Base Alex Rodriguez
Shortstop Derek Jeter
Left Field Curtis Granderson
Center Field Brett Gardner
Right Field Slade Heathcott
Designated Hitter Jesus Montero
No. 1 Starter C.C Sabathia
No. 2 Starter Phil Hughes
No. 3 Starter A.J. Burnett
No. 4 Starter Arodys Vizcaino
No. 5 Starter Manny Banuelos
Closer Joba Chamberlain
Chad, call cashman and tell him to sign Holliday.
I saw on BBA that Melky Mesa was listed as the systems best athlete and best arm. The guy is small but has some pop. Yet I hardly ever hear him mentioned.
Does he have any prospects to make the majors in the next couple of years?
The Yanks farm is a little underrated right now, but it will get more recognition as next season unfolds.
Phil, yep I did. I guess it’s confirmed? I love it…….
Anthopolous was disingenuous and I’m not thrilled about that. He actually lied – he said that while an AL East team would have to better most offers, he said they wouldn’t have to blow him away.
Doc obviously was eager to get out of Dodge and the Phils fit the bill for him. If he only wanted to go to the Yankees, he would not have signed an extension. Oh well……..
George King says we’re talking to Nicky!
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....noGKoP9EEL
The Yankees system will probably rank in the middle of the pack right now only because so much of the talent is in the lower levels. Guys like Banuelos, Heathcott and Vizcaino need to advance a little bit before the system gets a ton of attention.
“Anthopolous was disingenuous and I’m not thrilled about that. He actually lied – he said that while an AL East team would have to better most offers, he said they wouldn’t have to blow him away”
He lied? When exactly did the Yankees, or Red Sox for that matter, make a blow away offer???
You equate Ryan Howard and Utley with Joba and Hughes. With all due respect Howard and Utley are light years better than either Joba or Hughes. If the Yanks offered that trade they would be laughed out of the room. And that is why the Yankees are in trouble when Jeter/Posada/Rivera start declining
Actually, I should ask when did the Yankees or Red Sox make a BETTER (not blown away) offer than Philly did?
I didn’t equate them. You’re drawing lines that aren’t there. I made the point that the Yankees — like the Phillies a few years ago — have seen their top young players move to the big leagues. I never said a word comparing the talent of those players.
What’s more, you never have to sell me on Chase Utley. He’s the best player I covered in my seven years in Scranton. No one comes close. Not Howard. Not Chamberlain. Not Hughes.
Dear Cashman and Yankee Ownership,
I am already bored with Championship #27 and would like to see #28 in 2010. The moves you are making remind me more of 2008 though. Please stop this and resume the 2009 thinking of winning.
P.S. Stop messing with the offense and find us another freakin starter.
Your annoyance,
E-gawa
“You equate Ryan Howard and Utley with Joba and Hughes. With all due respect Howard and Utley are light years better than either Joba or Hughes”
I think his point was not to compare the players, but rather illustrate how quickly a system can be rebuilt, following graduation to the bigs, trades, etc., if you do so intelligently.
“George King says we’re talking to Nicky (Johnson)!”
——————————————–’
Didn’t Joba and Hughes both make it to the bigs by 21? Where were Howard and Utley at 21? Thanks for playing.
btw, the Yanks keep adding to their farm system all year round and will be adding a few more IFA’s before year end.
The fact that Alex Anthopoulos asked for major league players Phil or Joba and 1 prospec, Montero from the Yankees,and yet Gave away his ace, with 6mm attached, for only prospects, is double speak!!
phil,
you seem to know a lot about the minor league system. do you know who the yankees are targeting? time frame for signing?
“Didn’t Joba and Hughes both make it to the bigs by 21? Where were Howard and Utley at 21? Thanks for playing.”
So they’re better? Delmon Young was up at 20. Neither he nor Hughes nor Joba are very likely to ever be as procuctive as Utley and Howard have been.
Mlb network just did their top 9 1B of the decade. tex was #8. Giambi was #3… Man I knew we shoulda kept Giambi..
ehhhhh what’s the deal with the new layout? is the site being weird or have they actually changed it? does it look different to anyone else? I personally don’t like it
With Jeter, Johnson, and Tex at the top of the lineup AROD may not bat with the bases empty all season (exaggerated of course but you get the point). NJ would be a great signing at the right cost
“The fact that Alex Anthopoulos asked for major league players Phil or Joba and 1 prospec, Montero from the Yankees,and yet Gave away his ace, with 6mm attached, for only prospects, is double speak!!”
WHAT DID THE YANKEES OFFER!!!!
Not asking what Toronto asked for. What package did the Yankees put forth in an effort to get him?
Where does Johnson Fall on the Molina/Gardner Speed scale?
sign NJ Cashmoney. Make it happen
Phil
December 16th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
btw, the Yanks keep adding to their farm system all year round and will be adding a few more IFA’s before year end.
—————————-
If one of those IFA’s is a certain Cuban LHP the Yankee system gets a big time boost. He would slot right into being the number 2 hole in the top 10.
maybe it’s just the new version of firefox? I had downloaded the update immediately before heading to this site and now it looks funny. Altho it looks fine when I use the google chrome browser….weird
“Where does Johnson Fall on the Molina/Gardner Speed scale?”
Shaking hands with Molina.
Anthopolous lied, Yankee fans cried?
– MoveOnCashman.org
Howard and Utley both debuted at age 24. Let’s give Joba and Hughes a little more time to reach their ceilings before saying they can’t be mentioned in the same breath. Utley’s truly great player, but Howard can’t hit a fricking curveball.
if the Yankees could get rid of igawa how many spots would that move their farm system up the rankings?
If you’re not equating them then what is the point of the comparison? Every team has some players who have been recently called up and others who are at the top of the farm system.
The problem is the players recently called up from the Yankees farm system haven’t really had any success. At least no success to the point where we can consider them proven quality major league players. Hughes is proven quality as a reliever, but not yet as a starter and same with Joba.
I worry that unless the Yankees can get a couple position players up like Pedroia/Youkilis or Howard/Utley it is gonna be tough to compete in 5 years. I don’t really consider Cano on that level because he has been shown to not be able to hit quality pitching (see RISP avg and performance in the playoffs this year).
How come the Minnesota Twins (small market) somehow field a competitive team year after year, including super-stars. It’s because they have a GREAT farm system. Why can’t the super-rich Yankees learn from Minnesota’s scouts??
They’re looking at a bunch of Cubans, including Chapman and a righty who touches 99, they’ll re-sign Arredondo who’s now known as Perez as soon as his suspension is lifted, and they have their eye on a Taiwanese shortstop named Lin who they can’t sign till 7/2/10.
The system will look a lot better if they sign Chapman.
“Where does Johnson Fall on the Molina/Gardner Speed scale”
————————————————–
don’t matter. When you walk every time, or hit wall-scraping doubles, don’t have to be fast
“Why can’t the super-rich Yankees learn from Minnesota’s scouts??”
Cash has cited them as the model.
Squid, the fact is, he apparently wouldn’t do the deal without 2 of Joba/Hughes/Montero………Lie was probably too strong, but he had given the impression that AL East teams had a fair shot….and I doubt now that was the case.
Chad, good summation – thanks. Who are the infielders that we can think good things about? Also, although we have a couple of good OF prospects in the lower levels of the minors, that’s not enough. I think we’ve already got too much catching – yes, I know you can trade the surplus, but except for Romine and Montero, the others are a long way away from the majors. What team will trade good OF/INF prospects for talent that far away?
There’s an awful lot of talent on the injured list – hoping for all of those guys or even most to make a comeback and progress to the bigs is asking a lot. I hope they can do it.
I will be spending lots of time at Pinstripes Plus tonight – BA is subscription only, so if anyone feels inclined to post the details of the list, I’d appreciate it. Thanks!
Not overly crazy about Nick Johnson. Gets hurt wayyyyyyyyyyy too much. And Cash talks about flexibility, the only position Johnson can play happens to be the position of our most durable player. Can’t say I’m nuts about it if it’s true.
Cano is as good as Pedroia. One’s slightly ahead in one metric, the other’s slightly ahead in another metric.
Chad how about hearing on the Yankees blog about some of their GREAT prospects,in a good way. We really don’t care about Philly OR THEIR FARM!
The Yankees constantly give up draft picks to sign Type A free agents and are always picking at the end of the round. Having a middle of the pack farm system is very good given the circumstances. With their resources, they do not really need anything more than a middle of the pack farm system
Nick is less likely to get hurt if he doesn’t play the field.
“Cano is as good as Pedroia.”
He clearly has more tools.
The Yanks theory is that they pick first every day in IFA.
Pedroia is better than cano right now, the difference is that pedroia is as good now as he will ever be and cano still has room to get a lot better..
vinny-b, a guy who just took a free pass to first base doesn’t need any speed?
(not pro or con Nick the Stick, just sayin’…)
By the way, “shaking hands with Molina” sounds like a euphamism for something I dare not specify.
I’m not sure how I feel about NJ, but I will say that I just loved him when he was here. I don’t recall the Yanks haven’t much in the way of prospects when he was here and so I felt a special pride in him. I don’t know if he has fond memories of his time here, but if he does, that can only help.
“Not overly crazy about Nick Johnson. Gets hurt wayyyyyyyyyyy too much. And Cash talks about flexibility, the only position Johnson can play happens to be the position of our most durable player. Can’t say I’m nuts about it if it’s true”
————————————————-
if Nick don’t play in the field – Nick don’t get hurt.
he doesn’t have to DH every day. In the days he doesn’t DH, he is either a bat off the bench, or spells Tex
In the link it says that he might choose the Yanks over Seattle cause it’s the Yanks.
Folks,
I believe there is a 98.898494049% chance that the Yankees will wind up with either Damon or Holliday.
That being said, I see nothing wrong with having a little fun, speculating on guys who exist in that other 1.1%.
Do I think the Yankees want Manny? Of course not. But what’s wrong with doing some fun speculation?
Lets go Yankees, that’s true……..and remember where we were just a few years ago?
Phil, lol – that’s true, too. The IFA guys are generally very young, correct? If so, isn’t it hard to really project them until they play a few years in the minors? Have we signed any IFA players that have done well so far or are is it too early to know?
By the way, “shaking hands with Molina” sounds like a euphamism for something I dare not specify.
————————————————
Lol Nick.
“By the way, “shaking hands with Molina” sounds like a euphamism for something I dare not specify”
———————————————
nick: VD?
Kei Igawa
Should’ve been packaged in a bundle of other lower ranked prospects and shipped to the Nationals,Cubs,Marlins, or Pirates a lomg time ago.
I hadn’t seen King’s report. I really want OBP Jesus back.
I will say no more, but once, years ago, Letterman had a Top 10 list of phrases that sound dirty but aren’t… and the only two I remember are:
– wind-surfing Mount Baldy
and
– shaking hands with Abe Lincoln.
Oh, I sort of only skimmed the article, Phil – thanks. I have a set routine when I get home. I go here, then NYYFans. Then, I check the various websites – NY Post, Newsday, etc……..Then, the twitters (I only started checking the tweets since the winter meetings) and MLB Traderumors. Usually, that’s when I read the links.
Betsy and I agree on something…Interesting…extending internet handshake…
“I’m not sure how I feel about NJ, but I will say that I just loved him when he was here. I don’t recall the Yanks haven’t much in the way of prospects when he was here and so I felt a special pride in him. I don’t know if he has fond memories of his time here, but if he does, that can only help”
————————————————
I loved him because he hit to all fields. Pure hitter. And a 80/80 batter’s eye
The Yankees’ offense clicked on all cylinders when Nick was batting 2nd (and Todd Zeile was on the bench).
chad-
you have taken this blog to a level not seen before. LOVE it!
keep up the good work
jonathan
E-gawa
“Dear Cashman and Yankee Ownership,
I am already bored with Championship #27 and would like to see #28 in 2010. The moves you are making remind me more of 2008 though. Please stop this and resume the 2009 thinking of winning.
P.S. Stop messing with the offense and find us another freakin starter.
Your annoyance,
E-gawa”
It’s this kind of attitude that makes a lot of fans hate yankee fans. You act like the Yankees developing talent and lowering the payroll a little will kill you and this team. This team doesn’t need a superstar at every position. Stop acting like a brat !
“Pedroia is better than cano right now”
Based on what exactly?
If the yankees do sign Nick Johnson there is going to be pandemonium in many circles in the yankees blogosphere.
The dreams of so many fulfilled…
Johnson doesn’t help much with roster flexibility but he’s worth a shot at DH (as long as his money doesn’t damage their chances at Holliday).
I don’t know if Johnson will stay any more healthy at DH but it may be worth a shot – at this point in time Johnson may be interested in doing whatever he can to stay healthy.
I’m sorry, this is hilarious:
http://assets.nydailynews.com/.....091216.jpg
“The dreams of so many fulfilled…”
Dr. James Andrews?
raymagnetic
December 16th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
“Pedroia is better than cano right now”
Based on what exactly?
__
Based on a dream thought up by the man known as Buster Callis Gammons Law Neyer Stark.
Jeremy, calm down. I was half joking.
I’m not bored with #27 yet.
“Johnson doesn’t help much with roster flexibility”
He will in the sense that he will probably sign for a low base salary which will afford them the flexibility to add other players.
CB,
looks like it would be a highly incentivized deal that will pay for health, but not at the outset interfere with our big plan.
Hmmm…..
http://www.projo.com/redsox/co.....e2c0f.html
Rich,
That’s true – but quite honestly how much less than $6.5M for one year is he going to sign for? 4M? 5M?
And he’s one of the few guys who might be a bigger injury risk than matsui.
A DH who is a 1b doesn’t help the yankees much with roster flexibility given they have Tex at 1b and Swisher on the roster.
But if it’s a one year deal like King is reporting I’d be game on bringing back the exalted one.
If the RS didn’t show loyalty to Manny, Pedro, and Damon, they aren’t about to show loyalty to Bay and Lowell. NTTAWWT
He also makes our bench stronger for the late inning when someone other than Tex needs a day at DH. It’s just good to have .400+ OBP guys around and his at bats are contagious!
Raymagnetic, how many MVP awards has cano won. Pedroia is better right now, he’s a more complete and polished player. If you read the rest of what I said though I think cano will be better in the future because he hasn’t reached his ceiling and pedroia pretty much has.
If Johnson plays 130+ games and is healthy, what can we expect? .290/.410/.460 with 18 HR 85 RBI and 90 runs I would guess…that could offset the loss of Matsui.
The Sox are a terrific organization, but I like the way the Yankees handle their players. Most of them have warm feelings and end up at Old Timers’ Days. Those that had issues (Bernie, Coney) ended up resolving them…..
E-gawa
Sorry Igawa I apologize. Sometimes it’s hard to tell because so many posters were going on and on about Cashman not getting Lackey(overrated) and Cameron(overrated), and Holliday.
Sometimes it gets so crazy in here that you can’t tell when someone is joking or not.
Pedroia didn’t deserve his MVP award.
Phil,
If the were to sign Johnson and Holliday no pitcher would make it past the 4th inning without throwing 100 pitches.
And the team would play even slower games.
It would be a brutal line up to try to get through.
How many runs would Nick score? He’d have Jeter in front of him with Alex, Tex and possibly Holliday behind him.
So does NJ take us out of the running for Holliday?
Nicky at DH and Melky in LF replacing Damon/Matsui is a risky proposition. If NJ is signed in addition to Holliday or Damon, then we are reloaded. If his signing means Melky is the full-time LFer, then it doesn’t help much.
I don’t get the Johnson move, if it happened. I thought the Yanks weren’t interested in Matsui because Cash didn’t want a DH. Unless Cashman thinks he can get Johnson for cheaper than Matsui. Say $3-4m and then he can still sign a pitcher. This way they can get both.
E-gawa
“Dear Cashman and Yankee Ownership,
I am already bored with Championship #27 and would like to see #28 in 2010. The moves you are making remind me more of 2008 though. Please stop this and resume the 2009 thinking of winning.
P.S. Stop messing with the offense and find us another freakin starter.
Your annoyance,
E-gawa”
It’s this kind of attitude that makes a lot of fans hate yankee fans. You act like the Yankees developing talent and lowering the payroll a little will kill you and this team. This team doesn’t need a superstar at every position. Stop acting like a brat !
——————————
I am pretty sure he was pretending to be Kei Igawa and basically telling the yankees to add him to the rotation.
CB
Nick is four years younger than Matsui, and has an almost identical OPS+ (125 v. 124) despite being injured for much of his prime. So I think Nick is less likely to have an age-related to decline, and has more potential to exceed his projections going forward.
Admittedly, his health is a question mark, but that’s why the Yankees can get him so cheaply.
Also, as a general point, Cash has said that it’s hard for a player to come back to his original team after taking a big pay cut because it can affect his status on the team. That may have figured in their thinking to let Matsui go.
Signing NJ only benefits us if it is in conjunction with one of the left fielders. Johnson on his own still leaves us with a hole in left field.
Can we afford NJ, Holliday, and Sheets?
If Johnson goes on the DL for nicks, then we could give a Miranda or Vasquez a go……..Nick the Stick, ah the good old days.
Couple things:
first, Miranda got hurt in winter ball, and that may be why they are looking at DH’s.
It’s also possible, and I favor this theorem that plan A was trade for Halladay and sign Damon. In that case, no DH. But, the Yanks were unable to trade of Halladay, so I think plan B may very well be sing Matt Holliday and a DH.
Didn’t NJ used to play the OF – isn’t that how he broke his leg at Shea? So, then he could be used sparingly as an emergency OF if needed……he’s not like Matsui, who really can’t play OF at all.
Johnson might be a million dollars or so cheaper, because Matsui is better.
Matsui has been healthier than Johnson (Matsui may be gimpy, but doesn’t live on the DL like Johnson does) and hits for more power.
Anyway, didn’t Cashman say he wanted the flexibility? Why let Matsui go and sign Johnson?
Now, if we sign Holliday too, then it is fine. But alone, I don’t see why we let Matsui walk for Johnson.
Why haven’t the Yanks moved Igawa if they have no intention of every having pitch in NY? His success at AAA suggests that a NL team could use him and he could be a back of the rotation pitcher for some team. If they could get a reliever or some lower level talent it would be a good move.
Chip
December 16th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Folks,
I believe there is a 98.898494049% chance that the Yankees will wind up with either Damon or Holliday.
That being said, I see nothing wrong with having a little fun, speculating on guys who exist in that other 1.1%.
Do I think the Yankees want Manny? Of course not. But what’s wrong with doing some fun speculation?
———————————————————
Chip-
You seem like a smart guy. It’s a free country and a free blog, you can speculate on whatever you want.
With that said, you shouldn’t be surprised when people comment on some of your outrageous proposals, such as acquiring Manny Ramirez, because that will never happen.
I can say “Hey, wouldn’t it be great if King Felix demanded a trade from Seattle and said he would only play for the Yankees?”, or “Yanks should acquire Adrian Gonzalez to DH… let’s keep him away from Boston.” But neither will happen, so why discuss it?
Some people on this board love to have fun and fantasize about deals that will only happen in a video game. Others of us come here looking for serious solutions to the holes the Yankees have. Throwing around a name like Manny Ramirez, for us, is a waste of time. It would be great if Mussina came out of retirement too. Not happening.
Again, post whatever you like, there are those who will play the game with you and enjoy it. But don’t be surprised when you get some backlash from people who want to ground the discussion in reality.
Plus Damon is pricing himself out of the Yankees’ plans.
Rich,
I’m for it. I’d guess they are exploring whether they could sign Johnson to a low base with incentives. This way they could ostensibly keep their opening day payroll number a bit lower.
He’s definitely less likely to go through an age related decline with Matsui – though I think that is very secondary given matsui would have come back on a one year deal.
Matsui’s bat speed is still outstanding.
And Johnson’s power really plummeted – it’s a real risk to bet that it will come back as he moves away from that wrist injury.
It does appear that the yankees are now in full blown plan B mode.
Holliday and Johnson would be a very very nice coup. Johnson alone? Not so much….
Why can’t anyone let Melky alone at LF?
Jesus, The line up is loaded if the Yankees get NJ. You can afford to have a Melky and a .270 avg with good defense out in LF. Stop trying to put superstars in every position. The Yankees need to build a strong farm system and save up money to sign the best of the best.
Jeter
Johnson
Teix
A-rod
Granderson
Posada
Cano
Sweisher
Melky
cc sitting courtside at nets vs jazz
I think Damon was out of the plans as soon as they didn’t get Halladay.
I’m surprised we haven’t heard any rumors though regarding trades or signings. Cash is being very stealth this offseason. That’s why I think he’s got something up his sleeve. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see Holliday in pinstripes before Christmas. I just don’t know why he would pass up the opportunity to fill LF for a few years to come. Crawford might sign an extension, and even though he is better defensively, Holliday is superior on an offensive standpoint. There is really no one else to play LF on that level other than Holliday.
If the plan is to make the ball club better then holliday is the best option now that the top pitching is out of the equation.
“Why haven’t the Yanks moved Igawa if they have no intention of every having pitch in NY?”
He’s not on the 40 man roster. No one wants him.
Here is the most important question: Will 2010 Johnson/Granderson match, top, or fall short of the production of 2009 Matsui/Damon? That is the question the Yankees must ask themselves. If not, Cash will have to upgrade LF. And if a LF is signed, one would be led to believe that Melky/Gardner would be spun off for a reliever…
“Didn’t NJ used to play the OF”
He did play 1 game in the Of that I can remember at Coors field. He was awful.
I don’t think NJ takes them out of the running for Damon. We still need a left fielder. If Melky is out left fielder, it basically negates the gain we got from Granderson. Granderson’s true value is if he replaces Melky, not replacing Damon while continue playing Melky.
Joe McDonald, a real class act, providing true information, as opposed to ESPN.
The Yanks have plenty of power -I’m not sure it’s a big deal that NJ doesn’t have it anymore. I’m not familiar at this point with what kind of hitter he is, but if he can clearly still hit and get on base, he seems like a good fit.
Plan B may work out better than plan A. I really have doubts about Damon at 2 years, even one.
Matsui can’t field
NJ can atleast field 1st base.
There’s your answer to why Matsui wasn’t offered a contract.
Of course it takes them out of the running for Damon. Half of Damon’s ab’s were probably gonna come at DH.
Anyone get Baseball America? If so, care to summarize John Manual’s chat? Thanks!
Bottom line is that Nick Johnson is one of the most patient bats in all of RedSoxBall. He’d be a nice signing for us.
Joe McDonald is gettin fired soon for that article.
I’m down with bringing back Nick the Stick.
However, Cashman can’t think that alone is enough. Still need something better than Melky out in left field. Holliday and NJ would make us LETHAL. As CB said, pitchers would not make it out of the 4th inning.
Jimmy
I do not know if we should or should not get him, but you are right. He is one of the most patient hitters in Major League Boston
“Nicky at DH and Melky in LF replacing Damon/Matsui is a risky proposition.”
Melky was in the lineup last year so he’s not replacing himself. It’d be more like Granderson is replacing Damon and Johnson is replacing Matsui. Seems alright with me.
Better Boston writer -
Shaugnessy or Pete Abe?
CB
With regard to Nick’s power, looking at his batted ball data for 2009 in comparison to the previous season, his LD% remained relatively constant (down 1%), his FB% declined by 4% and his GB% increased by over 5%.
Maybe his wrist hadn’t regained full strength. I’m sure they will check that out.
I like the Victor Martinez trade for Cleveland.
Masterson can be a very good starter, reliever, and a long man. Sox really missed him in the 2nd half, when they had to use guys like Traber as their long man and concede games because they didn’t want to butn their pen (remember Francona using Miguel Gonzalez in the 7th inning of a 1-0 game against us? Down 1 run and he gave up).
Hagadone is a very fine looking young ballplayer.
Cleveland got a very good deal for V-Mart
What how much loyalty the sox show Ortiz next year’s season end. It will be cold hearted!
He is also going from RFK Stadium/Nationals Park to NYS.
Power would be a bonus at this point. He is always going to be on base and hit balls in the gap.
How much less than $6.5M could Nick Johnson or Vladimir Guerrero sign for to make passing up on Matsui make sense?
I think Cashman could be interested in Derosa since it seems like he’s stuck on the idea of a rotating DH. Over the last 3 years he’s gotten significant time at 2B, 3B, and OF. I don’t know what the defensive stats are for him at those positions, but he has a strong enough bat that he would be a significant upgrade over Melky and Pena.
I bet Nick gets a 3.5M base salary.
“Matsui can’t field
NJ can atleast field 1st base.
There’s your answer to why Matsui wasn’t offered a contract.”
yea, cause the yankees need another guy to play 1st base.
Cash needs to work on getting another good starting pitcher. They can always find someone to plug into LF. Lackey and Halladay were the only good options out there and I never expected the Yanks to get either one. Cash better be creative because a pitcher is a must.
I seriously can’t wait to wake up to the headline “Yanks in serious discussion with Johnson”
Would there be any takers for Swisher?
We could have this as a line up;
Jeter SS
N. Johnson DH
Teix 1B
A-Rod 3B
Holliday LF
Posada C
Cano 2B
Cabrera RF
Granderson CF
Nick Johnson can play first base if Teix went down or was rested, and we could still look for a pitcher either in the trade market (for Swisher) or as a free agent.
Btw, i put Granderson and Cabrera in 8 and 9 so we didnt have 2 left handers batting 7 and 8, but switch if it looks better.
Multiple sources informed Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald that the odds of Adrian Gonzalez landing with the Red Sox this winter are “remote.”
It’s not surprising to hear. Gonzalez, 27, is a perfect fit in San Diego, where the lineup lacks power and money is tight. He posted a .958 OPS and 40 home runs in ’09 while earning just $3 million. He’s only owed $4.75 million in 2010 and carries a bargain $5.5 million club option for 2011. Dec. 16 – 4:26 pm et
_____
Dont know if anyone posted this. Obviously, I hope this is true, but I will be prepared for the opposite, just in case.
My hope is that, if he is made available, there should be multiple teams in it for him, and many other teams have more than the Red Sox have to offer.
None of the guys that the Sox lost were as iconic as Rivera or Jeter.
Damon? Please. Nice player, not a homegrown legend. Lowell? Most Sox fans couldn’t wait to get him out of Boston. Bay? As Pete Abe said, If they get Gonzo, no one will even remember Bay.
Can’t compare the situations. Jeter and MO are ambassadors of the game and have 5 rings.
I would love to see Lance Berkman as our permanent DH, but that would never happen lol. That’d be pretty awesome though
This whole Gonzalez to Boston drama is so staged. Boston acting like they wouldn’t give up Bucholz and Ellsbury is a joke aimed at the SD crowd to make it seems like Boston gave in at the end.
Mike,
I don’t even think you can compare Andy/Jorge to Jeter or MO. Most Yankee fans don’t love Posada now anyway. I doubt they want him here past his contract, especially if Montero is ready to take over. It looked like Andy was not even going to come back last year and fans really didn’t make a huge deal about it. Most fans wanted Sheets on an incentive deal instead of him last year.
We didn’t re-sign Posada to that contract in 2007 out of sentimentality, we signed him because he was our #5 hitter and we had no one to replace him. Especially when A-Rod looked like he was gone and Posada hit .338. We needed Jorge then.
Phil
Absolutely. And Boston has the media, ESPN at the top of that list, to spin it that way as well, so that Jed Hoyer comes out looking like a good GM.
“None of the guys that the Sox lost were as iconic as Rivera or Jeter.”
Iconic is subjective, but Pedro was as integral to whatever success that team had as Jeter or Rivera have been to the Yankees.
But as I implied, I don’t blame the RS. No player is more important than the team.
Olney was spot on about Adrian Gonzalez. Given what he means to the Padres on the field and off, that he will only make $10m over the next two seasons, that he is Mexican-American and is identified with by a significant part of the fanbase, there isn’t enough that the RS can give up to compensate for the value that he brings to the Padres.
How arrogant are the Sox?
They won’t give up Clay “Jays and Orioles killer” Buchholz and Ellsbury the guy who isn’t even a CF, in the same package? For a guy who hit 40 HRs in the worst division for hitting in baseball and plays great D to boot?
“My hope is that, if he is made available, there should be multiple teams in it for him, and many other teams have more than the Red Sox have to offer”
Bottom line is that if Kennedy and Jackson are enough to get 4 years of Granderson then Buchholz, Ellsbury, plus a prospect is more than reasonable for two years of Gonzalez.
Cash needs to get one of Sheets or Duchscherer, preferably Sheets. This way one of Hughes/Joba can be in the pen.
or
I like signing NJ and then also Derosa at which point Gardner or Cabrera to KC for Bannister.
Nick Johnson Injuries:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....y-or-bust/
One thing to remember. Slow lefty hitters, hitting doubles off the right centerfield wall in YS, usually only get to 1st.
Rich in NJ
link to Olney?
“Here is the most important question: Will 2010 Johnson/Granderson match, top, or fall short of the production of 2009 Matsui/Damon?”
————————————————
if NJ were to be signed. The lineup is better than 2009.
Granderson+Nick Johnson > Damon+Matsui
“Raymagnetic, how many MVP awards has cano won. Pedroia is better right now, he’s a more complete and polished player.”
MVP awards mean NOTHING. Pedroia may be more polished (whatever), but Cano has put up better numbers throughout his career.
CR9
He was on with Kay today. Here’s the link to the podcast.
http://stations.espn.go.com/st.....id=2693958
“Bottom line is that if Kennedy and Jackson are enough to get 4 years of Granderson then Buchholz, Ellsbury, plus a prospect is more than reasonable for two years of Gonzalez.”
Ummmmmmmmmmm. NO!
Squid, bottom line, Tigers needed to clear payroll. The Padres dont have to shed Gonzalez’ contract.
Also, the Tigers got Max Scherzer, Jackson, and Schlereth.
Way to compare apples and oranges.
Squid, Red Sox fan?
“They won’t give up Clay “Jays and Orioles killer” Buchholz and Ellsbury the guy who isn’t even a CF, in the same package? For a guy who hit 40 HRs in the worst division for hitting in baseball and plays great D to boot?”
——————————————–
good. Then they won’t get AGon
vinny b;
our 1 year dream might come true (refering to NJ), lol.
CR9 > squidward
Betsy – high on pie
December 16th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Didn’t NJ used to play the OF – isn’t that how he broke his leg at Shea? So, then he could be used sparingly as an emergency OF if needed……he’s not like Matsui, who really can’t play OF at all.
_______________________________________________________
Betsy, he was playing 1B, was hurt in collision with RF going back on pop fly. Happened to be watching, gruesome.
“Squid, Red Sox fan?”
No dumbass. Don’t confuse normal functioning brains with being a Red Sox fan.
Just because I’m not a paranoid schizophrenic, conspiracy hugging, bag of crap like you, doesn’t mean we can’t be fans of the same baseball team.
“Betsy, he was playing 1B, was hurt in collision with RF going back on pop fly. Happened to be watching, gruesome.”
NJ was about to have an injury free season that year, but the Mets cursed him. 2 weeks before the season ended. that RFer was Austin Kerns, he must had been deaf that day.
“our 1 year dream might come true (refering to NJ), lol”
————————————–
brother Ed: I know. Tryin not to get hyped, cuz it George King : )
Squid, did I strike a nerve?
Wait, do squids even have nerves?
ESPN posted their list of top MLB players in the 2000s by Rob Neyer. Lots of current and former Yankees on the list. Jerry Crasnick lists Mariano as the greatest pitcher of the 2000s as well. See, ESPN isn’t entirely anti-Yankee. They’re just not big fans.
“brother Ed: I know. Tryin not to get hyped, cuz it George King”
agreed, King is at sneaky writer most of the times. lol
squidward
Beyond your ad hominem attack, you failed to address the fatal flaw in your post: As CR9 pointed out, Detroit got Scherzer and Schlereth, while dumping Granderson and Jackson’s salary.
The Padres can afford to pay Gonzalez.
So your post was flat out wrong.
I agree that Granderson & NJ are > Damon & Matsui. I think NJ and Matsui are fairly even, but CG is an upgrade over Damon. At this point in their careers Damon will hit for a higher avg and K less but CG is a much better OF, has more speed, will steal more bases and if Damon can hit 24HRs in NYS, CG will probaly hit 30+. I was a big fan of NJ when he was a NYY and continued to follow his career through MTL, Washington and FLA. For a 1 year incentive laden deal, he’d be a really good DH.
I see there’s talk about whats going to happen to GTLU in the upcoming season. I do a little php/mysql programming. How about something Almost Automated as far as putting in the line ups? we could test it this winter. A simple form with fields for putting in position and player name. Click the submit button and your registered for the day. Have to have people login so we know who is submitting what. I’m not sure how we could do the times to register unless we do something like have registration open from 12:01 am the day of the game until 12:00 noon (incase there isa one oclock game. We could have a couple admins who could get in to enter the actual schedule and have it display the winner of the day.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
Well, ESPN could not possibly deny guys like Mo, Jeter.
Just like Yankees fans cannot deny guys like Schilling.
for anyone on the fence about NJ:
Nick Johnson had a .426 OBP in 2009
“I seriously can’t wait to wake up to the headline “Yanks in serious discussion with Johnson””
How about “Yanks swap a Wang for a Johnson” ?
“if NJ were to be signed. The lineup is better than 2009.
Granderson+Nick Johnson > Damon+Matsui”
How do you figure? Granderson might match Damon, but Nick Johnson is no where near the hitter Matsui is. You’re talking about the 2nd and 5th hitter in the Yankees lineup last year. If Granderson and Johnson were in the lineup last year they’d be hitting 7th or later.
So Matt , I understand you’d like to play baseball for The NY Yankees, let’s sit down and talk numbers…….Before Christmas anyone ????
This is pure speculation (hey what are blogs for?!), but if the NYY sign Holliday that makes either Melky or BG expendable. Last week on this blog, someone reported a rumor that ATL was interested in trading Lowe for Melky plus others. If that trade was completed that would solve the other SP need. The NYY would then have an OF of Holliday, Granderson, Swisher and a rotation of CC, AJ, Andy, Lowe & Hughes/ Joba.
“Bottom line is that if Kennedy and Jackson are enough to get 4 years of Granderson then Buchholz, Ellsbury, plus a prospect is more than reasonable for two years of Gonzalez.”
I’m thinking Gonzalez is a much better player than Granderson, and it’s really not even close.
San Diego also has no incentive to trade Gonzalez, whose contract is dirt cheap and is only 27.
if/when the Sox get Gonzalez, I expect this post on MLBTradeRumors from Tim Deikers…
Trade Reaction: Gonzalez to Boston for Buchholz, Ellsbury, and Westermoreland.
WEEI’s Alex Spier says this was a move the Sox had to make and they got a ‘steal.
ESPN’s Buster Olney talked to a source who said “In that park, he might hit 50 Homeruns.”
SI’s Jon Heyman says Jed Hoyer, the rookie GM and former Sox exec, made out well in this trade, as did the Sox.
ESPN’s Jim Callis says this deal hurts the Sox depth, but makes them the favorites in 2009.
FOXSports’ Ken Rosenthal says the Sox have effectively answered the Yankees and are the favorites to win their 3rd championship this decade.
ESPN’s Keith Law says this was a ‘coup’ for Jed Hoyer and he has a head start on rebuilding the Padres.
Globe’s Dan Shaugnessy says the Sox had been planning this move for months and finally got their big bat.
MLB Network’s Peter Gammons states, “this is why the Sox are the model franchise in baseball” while praising the deal, and quotes an NL exec by saying, “Best rotation and best lineup in baseball, a force to be reckoned with.”
ESPN’s Jayson Stark says the Padres got an “exceptional” amount of young talent for Gonzalez and this was a no-brainer for SD.
Boston Globe’s tony Massoratti says Theo was “devastated” to give up what he did, but this move shifts the balance of power in the AL East.
———————
Yes, I am that bored that I made a hypothetical post about reactions to a hypothetical trade.
Jack
Spot on.
raymagnetic
Yes, that too. I thought that was too obvious to waste my time pointing out.
There is only one thing worse than most Red Sox fans, and that is a Yankees fan apologising for the Red Sox.
NO Yankees fan should try to defend the Red Sox if they got Gonzalez from their former employee for Buchholz and Ellsbury.
Rich:
You have no clue what the Pads can or can’t afford. No need to go all SJ44 and express your opinion as though it’s fact.
The Yankees parted with Jackson and Kennedy and got Granderson. That is fact. What else was involved is immaterial. They gave this and got
As for Pir-one, the guy is scooters. Always has been. Same clown who was applauding a death in DeShawn Jackson’s (sp?) family the other night. If he clung to his medication the way he did ridiculous conspiracies, he’d be on the cusp being rational.
NYYROC
If the Yankees sign Holliday, they can’t afford Lowe’s salary and hope to remain under $200m. Plus, Lowe was bad in the NL last season. If he pitched in the AL East, he would get killed.
“Nick Johnson had a .426 OBP in 2009″
Sure but rate statistics are really secondary with Nick. They always have been because he’s made of glass.
Despite his .426 OBP he was only a 2 win player in 2009.
He’s healthy – he’s terrific.
The guy drew a walk in almost 1 in every 5 at bats this year, IIRC. That’s crazy.
His year with the Marlins epitomized his career in many ways. He goes to the Marlins and he really helped their team offense start scoring more after.
But then he gets hurt and the Marlins never made up his loss.
He’s just a hard guy to depend on and rate stats don’t tell the picture.
“Newsday Ken Davidoff said that (of all things) Bay’s long-ago stint in center field with Pittsburgh is the reason that New York (the Mets)rates him as a better defender than Matt Holliday”.
No wonder the Mets stink…
“How do you figure? Granderson might match Damon, but Nick Johnson is no where near the hitter Matsui is. You’re talking about the 2nd and 5th hitter in the Yankees lineup last year. If Granderson and Johnson were in the lineup last year they’d be hitting 7th or later”
————————————————
for one, age has to figure in the equation. I would look for a young Granderson and Nick Johnson, to have greater production than a combination of Damon and Matsui, this year.
secondly, the cumulative effect of the opponent pitcher pitch-count reaching 100 by the 4th inning (which CB referenced) needs to be accounted for. This would be a very long lineup
NYYROC
Lowe declined considerably with the Braves and is not worth anything close to the 15M/year he’s getting. He would be eaten up in the AL.
squidward
You’re defensiveness speaks volumes.
No, it’s not immaterial. Granderson didn’t give up Granderson for AJack, Coke, and IPK, did they? ‘Nuff said.
Just admit it. You were wrong. It happens.
Wow, I suck at multi-tasking.
Edit:
squidward
Your defensiveness speaks volumes.
No, it’s not immaterial. Detroit didn’t give up Granderson for AJack, Coke, and IPK, did they? ‘Nuff said.
Just admit it. You were wrong. It happens.
blake
Matsui once played CF. Just sayin’
Rich in NJ: very true about the payroll. Back to the drawing board! I’m sure C-Money has a plan. I do find the Holliday to NYY rumors interesting considering they supposedly weren’t interested. Kind of like Tex last year.
I must say, the Nick Johnson thing is starting to grow on me. The Yankees love to bring back former Yankees so I can see it happening.
There is a reason that no one is knocking on Johnson’s door except the Mariners… it is because he is made of glass and unreliable. He is not even requesting more than 1 yr deal, yet despite his high OBP, he has no suitors.
If you sign him with Holliday, fine, you can take the risk. But signing him alone with Melky in LF means that there is a very good chance that we see Miranda/Melky in the lineup together for a good portion of the season. In the AL East, that is not going to cut it. Johnson is fine if you have a sure thing in left. Having a below average player in left and a guy made of glass at DH is not a smart way to head into a season coming off a WS championship.
if nick johnson means no johnny damon then im worried. BUT in Cash we trust.
If by chance the Yanks ink Matt Holliday, why would they need Nick Johnson ??? Wouln’t they just use Swisher there as part of the rotating DH’s that Giradi & Cashman are seeking ????
blake December 16th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
I must say, the Nick Johnson thing is starting to grow on me. The Yankees love to bring back former Yankees so I can see it happening.
————————————–
only problem with him is he’s a accident waiting to happen….has there been a player in MLB that has been on the DL more than him in the last 5 years
How will Nick Johnson get hurt while Dh’ing? He will take over 1st base for a few amount of games.
He walks and gets on base. Which is perfect for someone batting 2nd. He is a lefty. If Damon got a huge boost in his HR production, so why can’t NJ get the same boost in HRs?
““Newsday Ken Davidoff said that (of all things) Bay’s long-ago stint in center field with Pittsburgh is the reason that New York (the Mets)rates him as a better defender than Matt Holliday”.”
Could this actually be true? It’s just unbelievable. Just hard to fathom what’s going on in Queens. Is Jeff Wilpon paying any attention?
This has to be an excuse to sign Bay over Holliday. They can’t be serious about believing this.
It’s pretty common for players to outgrow CF as they age. Bay was never the same defensively after that knee surgery he had in 2007 (date?). His defense plummeted after the knee injuries he had.
Are the Yankees desperate?
Because that’s the only reason I could think of that they’d entertain the idea of Nick Johnson playing a major role on this team. You simply can’t ignore the man’s injury history – you’d have to figure on him losing some time during the season and have a definite back-up plan at the ready.
man, it sure is great to read such a wonderfully crafted and informative article at this time of year instead of reading about “the mighty Patriots” and Bruce Springsteen
thanks Chad!
We still don’t have a #5 hitter, even with Nick.
The NJ move makes no sense if it isn’t in conjunction with Halladay for LF.
squidward:
This is my first ever post, but I just wanted to see that reading your posts actually make me feel ignorant.
I must stop before I nauseate myself.
Doreen,
They may see Miranda as a back up plan.
just wanted to say*
See what reading an ignorant child’s comments can do to the brain?
If they get Holliday then the DH becomes much less of an issue. You could fill from within with Miranda, let Swisher DH, or sign a guy like Johnson or Vlad.
IMO the main priority should be Holliday and trying to fit another pitcher in. DH should be the cherry on top if there is any money left.
Rich, it’s just the way they treat the players – that’s what the point of the article seems to be. I’m fine with teams cutting ties with a player if they feel it’s in the best interests of the team. Same goes for a player – he’s got the right to go where he wants to go.
If we’re going to sign a guy made of glass, at least take the chance on Sheets. If he gets injured, we have Hughes or Joba to take his place.
If NJ gets injured (as he has every year), we have Juan Miranda filling in the DH. Considering Melky is most likely going to be in left, that is bad news.
PatM-
Nick Johnson on a low base salary, incentive deal makes good sense.
They could trade Melky, keep Swisher and Holliday, with Gardner for late inning replacement or Hoffmann if he pans out.
AT December 16th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
How will Nick Johnson get hurt while Dh’ing? He will take over 1st base for a few amount of games.
He walks and gets on base. Which is perfect for someone batting 2nd. He is a lefty. If Damon got a huge boost in his HR production, so why can’t NJ get the same boost in HRs?
———————————————–
maybe he just might get hurt running the bases
Alex and Nettles doing a signing in NYC tomorrow.
The signing scheduled for January 30th could be fun with that many players in one place.
http://www.lastlicksicecream.com/
Johnson’s injuries
Broken Jaw by ball
Broken Leg by collision
bum back
bad luck? who knows.
Holliday should be the priority. Signing NJ alone is VERY risky. Having Miranda and Melky in the lineup at the same time is not something a championship caliber team should do.
You simply cannot ignore his injury history.
I’m surprised that Nick in SF hasn’t broken the real reason behind the Yankees desire to sign Nick “DL” Johnson: Gene Monahan needs something to do now that Pavano is gone.
Even if he never plays a game in the field, DL Johnson will likely get a lisfranc trying to beat a wormburner to 1st.
Just say “No” to Nick Johnson.
only problem with him is he’s a accident waiting to happen….has there been a player in MLB that has been on the DL more than him in the last 5 years?
—————————————————-
Mark Prior!!!
Nick might really love NYS. He’s the kind of guy who could learn to hook a lot of homers, too go with all his walks, HBP’s and catcher interfences there.
Cashman is a pretty smart guy – I trust him if he thinks Nick is the right move.
Love the idea of Holliday in left and Johnson as our DH. Even if Johnson gets injured, we will still have more than enough offense. We can put Swisher at DH with Melky in right, or Miranda can replace him or something, yet we’ll only have one questionable bat in the lineup– IF there is an injury.
Signing Johnson as our only bat and leaving LF to Melky alone is pretty dumb.
Granderson is your 5th batter if NJ is the Yankees number 2.
Save up now and get Cliff Lee and Joe Mauer next year. Get younger, build a strong farm system and sign the young best players.
That my friends is how you build a Dynasty especially with the money that the Yankees have!!!
Betsy,
I understand. They can be brutally cold, but I’m not sure that giving an aging player an extra year, like they did with Posada (against Cash’s recommendation), or extending Jeter’s contract past age4 40 (if that’s what they end up doing), is the way to go either.
Boy, Doreen pulling no punches………..
What about Vasquez ? He’s supposedly got some power…….and he seems to be recovered from that wrist (?) injury he had last year.
Orioles are nearing an agreement with Mike Gonzalez.
Nick the Stick would fit in perfectly. However, we cannot rely on him to stay healthy. We need to shore up left field as well, so we have insurance if Nick hits the DL, like he seems to always do. I would not sign him as our only bat. Then we’re asking for trouble.
“How will Nick Johnson get hurt while Dh’ing?”
There once was a pitcher named Wang
He couldn’t run bases for long
He hurt his Lisfranc
And our fortunes soon sank
And we sang a sad October song
“Orioles are nearing an agreement with Mike Gonzalez.”
Ugh… the AL East is going to be brutal this year…. Better shore up the lineup.
Orioles and Gonzales agree on a two year deal worth 12-16M!
Mets sign Igarashi!
This could be a “possible” lineup, if Holliday not brought on board, against righty pitching.
Jeter SS
Granderson CF
Johnson DH
A-Rod 3B
Tex 1B
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Cabrera LF
But can we afford to give Miranda or Vasquez a spot in the lineup if we’re already assigning Melky one?
That is why signing Johnson and no one else is risky. Considering his injury history, we almost have to assume we will be seeing 2 black holes in the lineup at once sometime next season. That is why it is imperative we get a real LFer.
Yea NJ would be ok in addition to Holliday but its too risky to just sign him and nobody else.
Will Cano be given the chance to bat 5th?
Pretty sure Yanks figured he would be a lock for that spot by now.
Nick in SF December 16th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
“How will Nick Johnson get hurt while Dh’ing?”
There once was a pitcher named Wang
He couldn’t run bases for long
He hurt his Lisfranc
And our fortunes soon sank
And we sang a sad October song
——————————
Wow, One player and now you want to back off of NJ? Trade everyone on the Yankees, each one has been injured. If it happened once it can happen again according to Nick.
If we sign Matt Holliday, then it doesn’t matter even if Johnson gets injured. Because we can afford to have Vasquez or Miranda in the lineup because we would still have a lot of offense. The trouble arises if we need to put those guys in the lineup in addition to Melky.
AT
Obviously you have never read our friend, Nick in SF, before. He usually has a joke for just about everything. Try not to take everything so seriously.
Yankee Trader:
if were a manager, i would not remove Tex from #3. From my cold dead fingers
I’ve always liked Nick Johnson & followed him thru the organization…..I would have reservations to trading Melky to make room for Nick…..No to Nick at this time
Seems to me most injuries occur by running the bases.
It also seems to me that none of NJs injuries are due to running the bases. So there’e that.
one year at the right price? have a back up plan
Looking back on that little tidbit about the Mets liking Bay or Holliday because of his years ago defense…
Davidoff is being fed something for fans who aren’t paying closer attention to justify going after Bay for a cheaper contract (more affordable). Fans are desperate to see a move for a FA, Bay is their choice to do that.
Phil-
Doubt we’ll see much of Mike Gonzalez, since it’s unlikely the Orioles will have a late inning lead against us!!!!!!
Also as a Brave last year he blew 7 of 17 save opportunities and the job of closer went to Soriano.
Who else were they going to get for catcher, though? Jeter is still an excellent ballplayer – I’ve no idea what they are going to do with him, but they do have a very good relationship. I feel certain that the team and Jeter will end up with an arrangement that is beneficial to all. Cash is not swayed by sentiment…
That was a very nice move for Baltimore. Gonzalez is NASTY. So the Braves closing-duo both end up in the AL East.
But anyway, when talking about Nicky J, he would be a nice option to cheaply fill the DH after we sign Holliday. I wouldn’t want him by himself though, too risky. Sign him and Holliday and we’re golden.
We almost traded Melky for Mike Gonzalez a few years ago, or at least we tried.
I dunno why there isn’t more talk about Jorge Vazquez…every level of ball the guy has played in his life he has absolutely MASHED. He should be given an opportunity at DH.
We still need another pitcher, too.
Bot, Cash has some work to do before ST starts…..
The AL East is brutal, but the O’s have a looooooooong way to go, despite their talent. At the end of the year, they collapsed and I recall reading how the organization was NOT happy….or was it Jim Palmer? Either way, there seemed to be attitude problems in the clubhouse and the organization was afraid they were going to infect the youngsters.
I’m not familiar with Gonzalez, but some were talking him up for the Yanks – I’m glad they didn’t go after him. Why give up two picks for a reliever?
Another reason why the Mets continuously struggle:
“Bay’s long-ago stint in center field with Pittsburgh is the reason that New York rates him as a better defender than Matt Holliday.”
You would think that a Major League team about to spend 60M or more would have scouted this guy’s defense sometime in the last 4 years or so.
Ugh, I really don’t want to get my hopes up about Holliday the same way I did for Halladay
“I dunno why there isn’t more talk about Jorge Vazquez…every level of ball the guy has played in his life he has absolutely MASHED. He should be given an opportunity at DH”
————————————————-
2 questions:
1) Is Vazquez ready?
2) are you related to Tommy?
This is not Cashman’s first rodeo – he’s capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time (in other words, just because he’s talking about NJ doesn’t mean he’s not looking into the LF situation
Betsy – high on pie
Who else were they going to get for catcher, though? Jeter is still an excellent ballplayer – I’ve no idea what they are going to do with him, but they do have a very good relationship. I feel certain that the team and Jeter will end up with an arrangement that is beneficial to all. Cash is not swayed by sentiment…
__
You talking to me???
Like Cash, I subscribe to a point of view that prioritizes financial prudence as much as baseball.
So if Posada would have actually gone to the Mets if the Yankees held firm on 3 years, so be it. I don’t think he would have. In any case, the Yankees would have found a replacement.
Of course, Jeter is an excellent player, but most players decline as they near 40, if not before.
If Cash makes the decisions, I’m fine with it. But he was overruled on A-Rod and Posada’s contracts. I hope that doesn’t happen again. He should have built up enough cred.
Nick Johnson as DH. “Designated: Hurt”
Yanks won’t promote Vazquez till he shows them he will walk.
Too risky to sign NJ unless we get a legit left fielder
I do not want to see a situation where “glass Nick” is on the DL and we have to have 2 black holes in our lineup….
Betsy -
Nick Johnson doesn’t get your run-of-the-mill hamstring pulls and strained quads. Nick gets some awesome injuries.
If the Yankees still have choices, why put themselves in the position of signing a player that they know they’re going to need a couple more to compensate for shortcomings. If, in fact, it comes down to Johnson, it’ll mean other things didn’t work out and they took him because it’s a short-term low-cost option that won’t “hamstring” them in the future.
Just my opinion.
CB -
If they have faith in Miranda to take over for Johnson, why not just give the job to Miranda? (I’m being somewhat facetious here)
I don’t know how much closer to ready the Yanks want Vazquez to get. Last year at Trenton he posted a .329/.357/.578 line with 13 HR and 56 RBI in just 57 games. Pro-rate that to a full season and you are getting roughly 40 HR and 150 RBI. Is AAA really necessary for this guy? I say give him a shot at DH, maybe this guy is the 5 hole hitter we’re looking for.
vinny,
Are you still proud to have Girardi in charge? I didn’t see it in your handle lol
Rich do you really think giving Posada an extra year is a big deal? I think he’ll still be a valuable player in the next 2 years.
Not a big fan of Nick Johnson. I never thought too much of him when he was here the first time. He did have a very nice 2006 when you look at the numbers, but I don’t think just him gets it done.
On the other hand, if they sign Holliday, they have a lot more freedom with what they can do at DH.
You guys know that Miranda’s injured right now, right?
Doreen,
I’m with you. Unless we sign Holliday for LF, then signing NJ as the DH makes little sense. His injury history indicates thet he is going to end up on the DL at some point. Then we’re going to have a blackhole at DH in addition to left field.
Johnson is fine as a low risk, high reward guy as an “extra” piece, if we get Holliday for example. If we sign him without signing a LF’er, then we’re actually relying on him pretty heavily to produce and replace Matsui. That is very dangerous to do for a guy made of glass.
dave: definitely! NYY needs to lock him up. I hope Granderson receives #28 tho
murphydog: see my 7:39 post as well.
Jason Ruppert: very astute, and thank you.
AT: you asked a question, you got an example. I am not particularly pro or con with NJ, especially while not knowing what the other moves would be, but baseball players do get injured while playing on offense.
“Rich do you really think giving Posada an extra year is a big deal? I think he’ll still be a valuable player in the next 2 years.”
I’m not Rich, but I agree with you. At the least, Posada will be valuable this year. I don’t think it is that catastrophic to have to carry a player/contract for one year. At least not for the Yankees. Where they get in trouble is to have to carry a non-productive player for multiple years, like Giambi and Pavano.
Doreen – You are exactly right. At least if we sign a guy like Sheets, who is risky, we are not relying on him. He is going to be our #4 starter and if he gets hurt, we have Hughes or Joba there to be in the rotation. If we sign Johnson, we are counting on him to replace Matsui and provide offense. We have no back up plan basically. We have no clue if Miranda can hit ML pitching consistently. And what do we against lefties?
Rich, fortunately Hank is back on the horsey farm and has almost nothing to do with running the team.
“Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports says the the Mets “are trying to be careful not to bid against themselves” for Jason Bay”
————————————————
note to mets: too late
Phil -
Well, that figures.
How is he injured, how badly?
Phil
December 16th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
You guys know that Miranda’s injured right now, right?
What is his injury problem? You were the guy telling us that he would be in the DH role this year, is that affected by this?
Miranda is injured. That means Vasquez, who doesn’t take walks, is in line to replace NJ if he goes on the DL???
Pass. Unless we sign Holliday too.
“Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports says the the Mets “are trying to be careful not to bid against themselves” for Jason Bay”
————————————————
note to mets: too late
Haha, The Mets are a mess.
” “The dreams of so many fulfilled…”
Dr. James Andrews?”
As always I am a day late, a dollar short and droll deficient. I should never have doubted you.
Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don’t you think the joker laughs at you)
If the Yankees are truly determined to keep their payroll at or under $200m, and looking at it from the vantage point of the day the contract was signed, I don’t think it was a smart allocation of resources.
Can Posada prove that view wrong? Of course, I hope he does.
You can trust a GM and still his moves may not work out or he made have had too much faith in something that didn’t warrant it….
Example: Jerry Reese this year….
Every DH out there is an injury risk (and so was Matsui).
“Bay’s long-ago stint in center field with Pittsburgh is the reason that New York rates him as a better defender than Matt Holliday.”
Francesa said someone from the Mets told him they rated Bay higher than Holliday because they tracked all their ABs and superimposed Citifield dimensions on the spray chart and Bay was the better hitter in their home park.
That at least sounds more scientific than he played CF in Pittsburgh.
I’d be very happy to see Nick Johnson back to serve as DH. In fact, I like him as the DH better than Damon. (If Damon did come back, I really wouldn’t want him out in the field again. The old saying “my grandmother has a better arm” applies).
And I happen to think the “Melky doesn’t have enough power to play left” argument is absurd. Whatever you lose by Melky having less power than the average leftfielder, you gain by Granderson’s having much more power than the average centerfielder. Anyway, I’ve always thought that’s a silly way to analyze a team’s hitters. What matters is how the lineup as a whole produces runs. Not where particular individuals in that lineup happen to play the field.
If the Yankees end up not signing Holliday then I have to think it was because Hal said no. Its just too obvious of a move at this point not to make if its financially possible.
Disclaimer: I am going to say something positive about Francesa:
His interview with Jose Reyes today was a good listen, and Reyes came off very well.
Plus I always really liked Nick Johnson when he was here. And even before he was here. I remember John Sterling raving about him when he was in the minors, especially one year when for a good part of the season he had an OBP close to .500 (if I remember correctly).
http://www.i-yankees.com/?p=12420
Miranda’s injury not considered serious
I thought I read that Miranda hurt his elbow sliding into a base, but that there were no fractures…….he’s just taking some time off to let it heal.
Well, no fan base is ever going to agree 100% on moves that a team makes. Regardless of whether they sign Johnson or not, I am sure they will be going after a LF.
How does signing Johnson help “rotate the DH”?
He can only play one other position, and that position happens to be occupied by our 2nd best player who never takes a day off or needs to DH.
And if we sit him, that means one player from our weak bench will be in the lineup as well (Cervelli if Posada DHs, Pena if Jeter sits, etc.)
So signing Johnson doesn’t give us much flexibility. He is also made of glass. He would be a pretty questionable signing. Unless we get a real left fielder, rather than Melky.
Blake, I agree………..
It’s not like Hal isn’t giving Cash plenty of money to spend…
Miranda injured his arm a couple of weeks ago. It’s not broken, but he doesn’t know what’s wrong with it and he’s still not playing.
Rich in NJ
December 16th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Disclaimer: I am going to say something positive about Francesa:
His interview with Jose Reyes today was a good listen, and Reyes came off very well.
I thought so too.
My theory is Omar set it up so Jose could answer some of his critics and get the fans back on his side.
MF should do that more.
blake,
That is my thought as well. However, it does seem that Cashman is pretty hesitant to hand out long term deals, unless it is a special player, and doesn’t like to tie up multiple positions for a long time.
But it isn’t like Cashman has many options now. He either signs Damon or Holliday and goes for a DH. We have holes in our lineup and there are just not many solutions out there.
I really hope Cashman’s plan isn’t just to sign “Glass” Johnson and let Melky be the LF. That has disaster written all over it.
“Francesa said someone from the Mets told him they rated Bay higher than Holliday because they tracked all their ABs and superimposed Citifield dimensions on the spray chart and Bay was the better hitter in their home park”
Wow, yea that makes sense.
The reason I don’t want Matt Holliday is because it’s hard to root for a team when all they do is just buy the best players, regardless of their cost. I’d much, much, much rather lose the World Series next year without Matt Holliday than win it with him. It makes the victory more hollow.
Let’s go forward with who we have, maybe sign some smart, low-cost pieces and see how it goes. We have the pitching depth and legitimate bench players. We don’t need a big LF bat. If we want to be sure we win the WS, then it’d be great. But what ever happened to the joys of the competition? Look at the 2003 ALCS. If we had faced Boston last year, we’d likely have swept them. How much fun would that truly be? Not as much as 2003.
They can’t figure it out from x-rays? Ugh, this is as frustrating as Tex’ tendonitis (which took forever to heal) or even Joba’s……
Unce E and Phil
Thanks for the injury info.
Which winter League does Miranda play in?
Phil, FYI – do you have a link to Ken Davidoff’s news that Towers to NYY is official? I didn’t see it on Newsday.com.
Thanks!
Mike, yea really all of the free agents that are left are either old or injury prone except Holliday and he happens to play a position the Yankees need. Its a no brainer if Hal allows the money for the contract.
The thing is that most payroll numbers indicate we have over $20 million available to spend (numbers range from $21-$27 depending on the arb. guys and such).
So if the plan was to sign Damon AND a DH like Vlad or someone, couldn’t you just allot that money to Holliday, rather than to 2 guys? And we probably will still have enough money for Sheets.
How does Holliday affect our payroll? Wouldn’t the money he get be the same money we were going to allot for a DH/LF combined?
“So signing Johnson doesn’t give us much flexibility”
——————————————————-
but commiting 6 yrs/100 million, to another player does? If NYY signs Matt Holliday it ceases being a sport, and becomes fantasy baseball.
edit: fantasy baseball in an 8-team league
charlstonchew,
Why the hell should we not replace our old FA’s Damon and Matsui with 1 young FA? Why should we try to win a pennant with an arm tied behind out backs? They instituted a draft to try to stop us from competing the best we could. Then they added revenue sharing to try to stop us. Then they added the luxury. But we still compete. We compete in the season and when the season is over we keep competing. And we don’t have to apologize that. And if you don’t like rooting for the way the Yanks have always done things, find another team.
Betsy,
I didn’t get the info from Davidoff. I got it from my sources.
Holliday:
He thinks the Yankees just may be serious. That they aren’t going to bid for him. Though he feels it’s just the crickets chirping PR. He’s doubtful and his dad has ants in his pants.
Secret dreams are that it is done by xmas and he is on the Yankees.
Boras wants to make Damon happy, but it looks like it is not going to be in NY. Still possible? Sure..
Doesn’t want to piss Damon off and push Holliday to Yankees.
Everybody’s pointing the finger, but nobody is taking action.
My thoughts? Well, last year I was certain about Tex, this year, I’m not as certain, but I still see Holliday in LF/NY
“If NYY signs Matt Holliday it ceases being a sport, and becomes fantasy baseball.”
Is that wrong?
It is impossible for us to sit here trying to figure out payroll scenarios because nobody knows what the actual figure is.
$20 million is different than $27. $20 probably isn’t enough for Holliday and Sheets. $27 is.
The buzz is that it is not a “hard” cap, but if we sign Holliday for $100 mil, will Hal allow him extra money for Sheets? If he looks good in workouts, he might be able to command a nice chunk of change.
Perhaps we go with a cheaper option like Dutch if we sign Holliday.
“How does Holliday affect our payroll? Wouldn’t the money he get be the same money we were going to allot for a DH/LF combined?”
Yes, pretty much, at least for 2010 anyway. I would rather sign Holliday and fill the DH cheaply or from within than sign a stopgap for LF and a mediocre injury prone DH and go through all this again next year.
Chapman, Holliday, Damon, Sheets, NJ, Dutchester…. will be interesting to see how Cash spends his money.
Every team in MLB plays by the same rules. The Yankees priority is winning baseball games. Its why they win and therefore why they have money to spend in order to continue winning. I’m not sure what some other team’s priorities are.
Man, Matt Holliday makes so much sense. It is going to be sad if Hal nixes it and we go to ST with “Nick the Glass Stick” Johnson at DH and Melky in LF. Johnson simply does not have the track record to be relied upon as a contributor. You have to view him as a bonus… and plan as if he is not going to contribute (i.e signing Holliday) rather than expecting him to.
After all this build up for Holliday and getting my hopes up, if they don’t sign him then I will know how Clark felt when he plugged in the Christmas lights and nothing happened.
I don’t understand the thinking that Holliday is a necesity. Another long term contract, something like the Giambi signing. What happened to all the flexibility. There will be players available at the All Star break. Why the need for another overpaid 18 mil per player. Oh yes and we have to have more pitching. Why is that? Surely one of Joba and Phil will come through for the playoffs. They were groomed as starters and now when they’re ready, we need sure things. Newsflash – no pitcher is a sure thing. NJ or Jermaine Dye can replace Matsui. Granderson can hit in the #5 spot. The Yankees have seriously upgraded with the Curtis trade, in center or LF. Why the panic? Can someone explain to me the need for Holliday, Sheets and a DH at a cost of 35 mil per year with the surcharge thrown in that’s more like 50 mil. Holliday and Sheets aren’t needs, they’re luxuries. As in if x doesn’t pan out we have backup plans. It’s bad business.
charlestonchew:
Self-loathing Yankee fan much?
Let’s not make too many moves to improve the team too much because that would be um, hollow? Enough whining. The “buying championships” canard went out the persuasiveness window a long time ago.
So your position is let’s try to get even with the competition, not better? In other words, I guess trading for Granderson was OK with you, but Holliday well, dang it all, that’s just goin’ too dern far!
Next thing you’ll be proposing is a Federal MLB Talent Czar to decide when teams have too much talent and then slap a talent ceiling on them.
“After all this build up for Holliday and getting my hopes up, if they don’t sign him then I will know how Clark felt when he plugged in the Christmas lights and nothing happened”
———————————————————
whichever the case, have to pass you props for the Christmas Vacation reference. Had quoted the movie earlier in the day, myself : )
“I don’t understand the thinking that Holliday is a necesity. Another long term contract, something like the Giambi signing.”
Why? It was foreseeable that Giambi might not age well as a result of his body type (PEDs aside), and that his defense could become a bigger problem than it already was.
Holliday is a very good two way player.
I would be reluctant to give him more than five years. Giambi, in contrast, got seven years.
“Doesn’t want to piss Damon off and push Holliday to Yankees.”
Lost,
Do you think that is why we are seeing all the articles about Damon dictating terms to the Yankees, looking into other teams, etc.? I imagine this has to be a tricky situation for Boras. I guess that is kind of creating a waiting game where the Yankees want to maintain leverage and Boras can’t really solicit a NYY offer on Holliday without undercutting Damon?
If we don’t get him, we don’t get him, but he just makes an enormous amount of sense for a team that needs a left fielder and got shut out on Halladay.
Bo don’t know that…
Wasnt Holliday very mediocre to bad when he switched to the AL with the As? He has shown he can hit in the NL, but still have yet to see him hit enough in the AL to dish out a hefty long term contract. And dont the Cards have a pretty nice offer for him already where he is comfortable in the NL? Not sure I would want to beat that to get him here. Just my thoughts.
“Check out the Lupica twitter @mikelupica”
——————————————
how much will you pay?
“Which winter League does Miranda play in?”
Dominican
was the Holliday Lost poster, and insider?
cano he didnt
He had a 120 OPS+ in 346 AB. That’s less than his career 133 OPS+, but it was skewed downward by his out of context April (.648 OPS),
thanks pat
edit: an insider?
I am watching an episode of the Travel Channel’s “Man vs Food” in Brooklyn that I DVRed this week. If you are unfamiliar, this dude travels around the country and takes the biggest pig-out challenges restaurants have to offer. So far in brooklyn he ate the most amazing looking roast beef and sicilian pizza I have ever seen (side note.. anyone care to go eat with me?).
Anyway, I am now on the part where he takes the 6-Suicide Buffalo Wing challenge and Joba Chamberlain is there to cheer him on.. very cool
So this is baseball related.. yay Joba!
I saw that too.
Pizza part was great.
mmmmm pizza.
The Yankees got Granderson for kids because of money shortages. As an example the Dodgers owners are going through a divorce and the budget is tight. Maybe Kemp or Ethier can be pried loose for Nova, McAllister, Sanchez, Romine. Maybe throw in a Melky. There are other options available.
I’m surprised Lupica uses Twitter, it doesn’t allow him to rattle on for pages because he loves that sound of his own voice.
Vinny-
Maybe. If it is the same person who was Lost -in -Tex is.
That person seemed to KNOW what was going to happen with Tex.
Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don’t you think the joker laughs at you)
December 16th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
I saw that too.
Pizza part was great.
mmmmm pizza.
*****
The spicy wings do nothing for me. But I could definitely get into the featured roast beef sandwich and pizza. Not both at once though
Think people!
NYY need a LF (of talent).
There are only 2 LF the fit the NYY mold perfectly.. Damon/Holliday
Both are represented by the same agent.. And nobody (even Boras) doesn’t want to piss off a client.
Yankees ARE/MUST going to get younger.
NYY org, really likes Damon and don’t want to throw him under the bus.. Everybody in Yanks org and Boras wants Damon to be happy before they make an offer to Holliday.
However, time is dragging on.. and Boras is business. Yanks will match/beat any offer for Matt, it’s virtually a lock and he knows that.. and people close to Matt know his first choice is NYY. Business wise, it makes more sense for him to get JD a 2/3 year deal for what JD wants..
then there are no hurt feelings by anybody. Well ‘cept maybe the cards..
but like I said, clock is tickin’. I expect something to come out as soon as Friday.
He’ll probably block anyone from replying to him. Since he doesn’t allow comments on his articles.
“Maybe. If it is the same person who was Lost -in -Tex is.
That person seemed to KNOW what was going to happen with Tex”
——————————————–
MTU: thank you. I didn’t remember the ‘lost in tex’ posts. I remember bobcat tho
I like a good wing but hot for hot’s sake – no.
oh those roast beast sandwiches looked good too
When was Bobcat? last year?
What was his stchitck?
“There are only 2 LF the fit the NYY mold perfectly.. Damon/Holliday”
Damon doesn’t fit the NYY mold anymore. He is in a defensive decline and he wants far too much money and too many years (more than one is too much).
The rest of your post makes more sense.
BO Knows…..You’re certainly aware that over the years I come to respect your input as much as any member here or has ever been here….However, I’m on the other side of the fench on obtaining Matt Holliday…He not only upgrades the leftfield position defensively, he also fills the # 5 hole and is an upgrade there as well…..He’s 29, he hits to all fields and his signing for 5 years would certainly resolve a corner OF position…There’s no player in the organization on the horizon to satisfy such important roles….Damon & Matsui made 26 mil last season…Holliday & Granderson will make less and are 14 years younger than last years duo…..Club has a chance to improve without raising the payroll all that much…..Younger and more athletic
I know it was time to move on but still
http://www.gettyimages.com/det.....ages-Sport
vinny, yes I was once Lost in Tex-is
though eventually I was found in New York 
I am still Lost tho!
At least twice a year there are these great players available, at the All Star break and in the off season. Who will be the next “must have” in six months? This is like my wife saving money shopping. “What a bargain”.
“Damon & Matsui made 26 mil last season…Holliday & Granderson will make less and are 14 years younger than last years duo…”
What else is there to say….no brainer.
And both Tex and Holliday are Boras clients so this guy has a connection to Boras if he truly knows anything.
“Business wise, it makes more sense for him to get JD a 2/3 year deal for what JD wants”
—————————————
you mean from a team other then the Yankees. And preferably before Holliday signs. Right?
“Orioles and Gonzales agree on a two year deal worth 12-16M!”
Just when it looked like the Orioles were on building something rational.
But now they have a “closer” so there’s that.
Marte’s contract really doesn’t look so bad anymore given what middle relievers have gotten paid this off season (and well, making Ryan Howard look like he was trying to hit a baseball with a rolled up newspaper…)
Pat that just hurts
Matsui’s not even smiling there
Lost,
I was wondering if that was you – though I would like some confirmation if at all possible. Haven’t seen you post much after last hot stove.
I don’t see that the Yankees will need much else in the way of position players for awhile if they sign Holliday. The only spot is catcher and they have a slew of catching in the minors. With the lack of pitching available this year maybe the best thing to do is to set up the lineup so that next year when there is pitching available they can concentrate totally on that..
vinny, correct.
“When was Bobcat? last year?
What was his stchitck?”
————————————
Uncle Ells: Bobcat was 2yrs ago, when the Santana talks were in play. I do a decent imitation of him, however it too late in the day. And for the record, am not comparing Bobcat to ‘Holliday Lost’
“BO Knows…..You’re certainly aware that over the years I come to respect your input as much as any member here or has ever been here….However…”
Do you mean you repect his input as much or more than anyone else respects his input or as much or more as you respect the input of anyone else who comments here?
vinny, correct
—————
Holliday: thank you for taking the time to post. Interesting.
CB:
Well, I am an idiot. I couldn’t post and I tried a few times. During the meetings I had Chad fix it. I don’t know why I couldn’t post, but whatever he did fixed it.
Maybe I was banned.
What kinda confirmation do you want?
“When was Bobcat? last year?”
2007.
“Bobcat” gets all the credit but “miller” was the one with the big scoop.
You hear what they want you to hear…..
pat -
I wasn’t ready for that yet. Shoulda been, though.
My question is this: will he speak English there?
blake
They will need to identify an heir apparent at SS to Jeter.
Damon is no longer an outfielder, plain and simple. His follies in the field are just that, and caused Girardi and staff an ongoing bout with heartburn and palpatations. I cannot envision any NL team doing anything other than summarily dismissing the notion of signing him, assuming of course they have bothered to review tapes of his 09 on-field escapades. From an AL standpoint, I can’t think of another “contender” willing to give him anything close to his demands. Like Abreu in 08, Girardi could no longer stomach incompetent defensive performance, and Booby, on even his worst wall-fearing day was never as bad as Damon. Damon ought to cease drinking the Boras Kool-Aid and consume a slug of reality, and seize on the Yankees’ offer if and when made. It should also be noted that Damon is perhaps the Manny of 09….it is recalled that Boras, after the Dodgers made their initial offer was trumpeting the ageless attributes of the ManRam who could well play into his early 40′s at a high level and was thus deserving of a six year gig, at the very least. And the line formed wrapping around the corner. We all know where that went. It would be somewhat ironic if Boras pulls another Tex and Holliday ends up in Pinstripes…and where would that leave Johnny Boy!!!
I like Yankee spoilers better than L O S T spoilers.
“They will need to identify an heir apparent at SS to Jeter”.
True but I think Jeter can play SS at least 2 more years, I’m not sure what they are going to do there but I’m in denial about it and I don’t want to think about it.
Lost,
How did the news of Tex signing break on this blog last year on the day of?
And what was the post that first confirmed his signing? (roughly the phrasing)
PATHETIC, when you read how the 3 team trade in seattletimes.nwsource.com. or the heraldnet.com happened. It seems GM Ruben Amaro of the Phillies was the driving force.He wanted Halladay and was determined to get him.
Both of these papers give the account, from GM Zduriencik of Mariners point of view.
CB,
I honestly do not remember. I can tell you I posted it was very-likely and almost the specific dynamics that were taking place about 36HRS before it happened.
I do remember people giving me a hard time (including Pete Abe) saying it isn’t going to happen.
*shrugs
Pat M
Just because we disagree doesn’t mean either of us is wrong. I’m not saying that Holliday is a bad player. Any team would want him. What I’m questioning is another long term contract at big money. Short term it’s great, three years down the road it would get really depressing as in all these anchors getting old. You couldn’t trade any of them. These are scenarios we’re discussing. Points of view. To me Damon is not an option. Now if someone was talking about a way to get Kemp, I’d be cheering.
Nick, I heard there won’t be as much as a single frame preview of L O S T before February 2nd.
blake
I understand, and actually, that’s why I used the words heir apparent. The player doesn’t have to replace Jeter at any given time, but they need someone in the system who they believe can be the guy when the time comes. Ideally, the player can hit enough to play 3B, if Alex needs to be moved first.
Here is an idea.
Yankees gave Damon until about now to decide. It cost them Matsui, and so be it. Boras knows this. He wants both his clients to get the best deal. Johnny has made his position known–he did this with the Red Sox after 2005, and Cash swooped in and got him. He thinks the same thing will happen.
Holliday wants to play for the NYY, apparently. If he loved the Cards so much, he would have signed for $16 x 5. As many have said, Cards have to make Albert happy first, thus, they cannot go any further.
AAV of $18 x 5 gets it done, even thought those pesky and crazy Mariners are likely offering a bit more. Johnny definitely is coming lately to this party. He’ll go to Seattle for $10-11 x 2 with a team option 3rd year once Holliday is signed.
Everyone is happy and making money. Johnny grows a soul patch and starts drinking a lot of Starbucks.
pat:
Matsui don’t even look good in red.
“Damon doesn’t fit the NYY mold anymore. He is in a defensive decline and he wants far too much money and too many years (more than one is too much).”
Damon has the perfect swing for Yankee Stadium. If Yanks sign him to a reasonable contract he should mostly DH.
Saying he is in a defensive decline is being kind.
Lost,
Hmmm. Not sure what to say.
Lost-in-Tex-is posted a very short one line message confirming Tex’s definitive signing a few minutes before Heyman broke the news.
That post got lost in the dozens of posts being put up that day – but I remember that distinctly. The post said something to the effect of, “Tex wanted it done and now its done” or something to that effect.
Lost-in-Tex-is was legit.
Bottom line – Matt Halladay makes too much sense NOT to go after.
Damon is a 37 yr old DH. Sign the younger, better player and stabilize the position for the next 6 years.
L to the 2nd: I heard the exact same thing. It’s frustrating, but it actually makes me happy. The anticipation builds…
Also, while I cannot vouch for sure that this Lost in… is the previous Lost in…, his posting style is the same and I think it’s the same guy!
Bobcat was legendary figure on NYYFans.com around the time Johan Santana was in play 2 years ago.
That thread was one of the most surreal experiences I have ever had online. An absolute classic.
Read it sometime.
Yes, you hear what they want you to hear, sayeth the Bobcatodamus.
Nick Johnson may be 4 years younger than Matsui, but that means absolutley nothing. He’s more brittle than most players 5 years older than himself. He’s not a kid anymore. I loved Nick when he first came up, but he’s never kept himself in shape and it has hurt his career. People get on Joba about being out of shape, but Nick has the same body type as Joba. A one year deal for Matsui would have been a better move than being put in a position of taking a chance on Johnson.
Rose
Damon has the perfect swing for NYS in comparison to other ballparks, but at his age, he will likely decline offensively, so there are much better options.
He doesn’t want a reasonable contract, which would be one year at around $7.5m.
Olney reported today (linked above) that he wants no less than $13m a year.
We already lost Matsui while we waiting on him.
It’s time to move on.
The thing is that if Boras can sell Damon to the Yankees then he can sell Holliday to the Cards and he makes more money. If Holliday signs with the Yankees then the market for Damon is dead.
Lost in Holliday Inn
I think you may have nailed it. Makes too much sense.
What happens if Boras tries to pull a bait and switch at the last second, where Damon asks for $10 x 2, with a team option for 3?
“If Holliday signs with the Yankees then the market for Damon is dead.”
That’s what happened to Manny last year when the Yankees signed Teix.
There is a such a thing as a fiduciary duty, even for Boras. He can’t sell Holliday or any other client down the river.
The beauty of signing Holliday is he’ll stabilize the OF for the next years and then as guys like Jorge go to retirement, Holliday can slide into a DH role and open the OF for some of the younger guys who are ready for the show.
It’s a question of whether the Yankees want to spend the cash.
If they do, this will turn this lineup into every pitcher’s nightmare.
I wonder if this Nick Johnson for DH was a leak to put some heat on Boras.
I just hope we walk away with Holliday and not Damon at this point.
Do you mean you repect his input as much or more than anyone else respects his input or as much or more as you respect the input of anyone else who comments here?
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Something like that song of “I’m my own Uncle and Father in Law”.
When Posada, Jeter and A Rod start doddering off, they will not go quietly. It will be a horror show. Oh, and next year there will be another free agent pitching class and we will have to replace Andy. Five years and 100 mil. Yikes.
CB:
Sounds about right. I never claimed that I have a great memory.
All I can do is say, I am that same person.
I do remember telling you guys that Tex’s wife didn’t really like the city of Boston and really wanted NY as well.
“The beauty of signing Holliday is he’ll stabilize the OF for the next years and then as guys like Jorge go to retirement, Holliday can slide into a DH role and open the OF for some of the younger guys who are ready for the show.”
Posada has two more years on his contract. He may be the DH in 2011. I don’t think a then 32 year old Holliday will need to be the DH.
“There is a such a thing as a fiduciary duty, even for Boras. He can’t sell Holliday or any other client down the river”.
No but for what it’s worth I think it works out better for Boras if Damon signs with the Yankees because they will pay him more than anyone else would and Holliday with St. Louis.
Nick,
What exactly is my posting style? You mean my terrible typing?
I am about done for the night. All alone, no wife and kids and made myself a juicy T-bone on the grill and haven’t got off this chair in an hour.
P.S. I work in NY often but I live in Tampa. Maybe I said that last year.
I didn’t mean to mislead you guys. I do not work for the Yankees.
Lost,
I remember the info about Tex’s wife as well (that was well before Gammons…)
Keep posting. I’m sure you understand my skepticism.
someone should post the pinstripes plus top 50
shame on them for charging for a freaking blog!