Four deals that were (probably) never going to happen anyway
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 17, 2009 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
There will be plenty to talk about at noon, when Sam and I host a live chat here at the LoHud Yankees Blog.
We’ll be chatting one hour after the Yankees officially introduce Curtis Granderson during a Yankee Stadium press conference, but the attention of the Yankees fan base seems to have shifted since the eventful Winter Meetings that brought Granderson, Andy Pettitte and Jamie Hoffmann to the Bronx. On Wednesday, the Red Sox, Angels and Phillies had their own press conferences to introduce John Lackey, Mike Cameron, Hideki Matsui and Roy Halladay.
All four came off the market on the same day, and it was a bit of a shock to the system. But I’m not sure it should have been. I’m not sure any of those four were ever likely to end up with the Yankees.
• Lackey agreed to a five-year deal worth $82.5 million, same as the A.J. Burnett contract of last year. Would the Yankees have really been interested another long-term contract with a pitcher who has some injury concerns and would be signed through his mid 30s? Lackey’s a very good pitcher, and he should make the Red Sox better, but the Yankees seem to be in a better position to take on a higher-risk, shorter-term contract (Sheets, Duchscherer, Escobar, etc.) than to tie themselves to Lackey. Having Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain gives them that luxury.
• Cameron took a two-year deal worth $15.5 million. Like Lackey, he’s good player who should make the Red Sox better, but a .250 hitting outfielder with 20-home-run power isn’t impossible to find. The Yankees certainly don’t have to be overly concerned about the first one to come off the board. Especially one who’s 37 years old and has some of his value tied to his ability to play center field, which the Yankees don’t need.
• Matsui went to Los Angeles on a one-year deal worth $6.5 million. For the past several weeks, Brian Cashman has been telling anyone who would listen that the Yankees are not focused on finding a designated hitter. The market is full of guys who can fill that role — that’s another reason losing out on Cameron isn’t such a big deal — and it was crystal clear that the Yankees weren’t going to actively pursue Matsui, especially not in December. Tough to see him leave, but it’s hardly surprising to see him go.
• Halladay went to the Phillies for three prospects, including the top young pitcher in the Philadelphia system. Without including Hughes or Chamberlain, the Yankees might not have been a match for what the Blue Jays were looking for in a Halladay trade. And after not giving up young pitching for Johan Santana, there was little reason to believe Cashman would have been willing to part with his top young pitchers for an even older Halladay.
Something on the silly Holliday rumor to Baltimore.
Baltimore would have a rough time fitting Holliday into a three man outfield. They already have Jones, Reimold and Markakis with Pie, Scott and Wigginton backing them up. You don’t pay $18 mil a year to DH and a bench player, and they arenot moving Reimold to a DH spot.
Chad- Ask Cashman, with the current lineup, who hits in the 2 spot and who protects A-Rod in the 5 spot, especially against lefty pitching?
Also ask him if they had any interest in Harden to fill the rotation spot, who was signed to a very reasonable contract?
Most importantly ask how much money is left to sign players and stay under the $200 million supposed goal? We’ve heard that the Yankees have between 177M to 195M already committed.
SJ, I’m fine with Cash seeking out Mo and Jeter because I’m sure they put a lot of thought into it. For me, Jorge is an emotional guy and often speaks or acts without thinking (like in that fight with the Jays). Cash would love another starter, Jorge isn’t breaking new ground there. A reliever? While I am not happy with the pen, a LF is more important.
Of course he wants to keep one of them in the pen……but Jorge is not thinking beyond his contract and CAshman has to. Putting either Phil or Joba (esp. Phil) in the pen is completely stunting their growth as starters.
GB7-
Good morning. Hope you’re feeling better. Are you home yet, or were you just up early in the hospital dealing with your nurse-Broom Hilda?
“The market is full of guys who can fill that role — ”
That’s not the point. None of those guys can fill that role as well as Matsui. This crap about wanting a rotation DH or a more flexible DH is a load of bunk as 99% of the guys still available can’t field anymore. Um, that’s why they are DHs. Nick Johnson, Vlad, Dye – all guys you don’t want in the field unless it’s a dire emergency. How are they different from Matsui? Yeah, they’re not!
6.5m to the Yankees is like $100 to one of us. They could have signed Godzilla in their sleep. This is a move they are definitely going to regret because no one is going to pitch to Alex with Jorge behind him. I can see it now – men on 2nd and 3rd, 1st is open. One out. Intentional walk to Alex. Jorge grounds into a DP. Get used to that scenario; you’ll be seeing it a lot next season.
from the last thread:
Baltimore would have a rough time fitting into a three man outfield. They already have Jones, Reimold and Markakis with Pie, Scott and Wgginton backing them up. You don’t pay $18 mil a year to DH and a bench player, and they arenot moving Reimold to a DH spot.
———————————————————-
If they signed, Holliday the Orioles would proabbly trade one of their current outfielders for a pitcher. They need pitching badly.
Of course he wants to keep one of them in the pen……but Jorge is not thinking beyond his contract and CAshman has to. Putting either Phil or Joba (esp. Phil) in the pen is completely stunting their growth as starters.
—————————————————
Good post Betsy!!! The Yankees have a lot invested in Joba and Phil. Its time to find out if they can do the job…there’s no sense in playing around with either of them anymore.
Yankee Trader
December 17th, 2009 at 8:44 am
GB7-
Good morning. Hope you’re feeling better. Are you home yet, or were you just up early in the hospital dealing with your nurse-Broom Hilda?
————————————————————
Morning, Trader. Feeling fine here, thank you for asking. I had to get up and shower because they threatened to send in Mrs. Boris karloff to give me a bath.
The not bringing back Matsui because they don’t want a full time DH thing doesn’t make ANY sense if they sign Nick Johnson.
jpb1973
December 17th, 2009 at 8:46 am
from the last thread:
Baltimore would have a rough time fitting into a three man outfield. They already have Jones, Reimold and Markakis with Pie, Scott and Wgginton backing them up. You don’t pay $18 mil a year to DH and a bench player, and they arenot moving Reimold to a DH spot.
———————————————————-
If they signed, Holliday the Orioles would proabbly trade one of their current outfielders for a pitcher. They need pitching badly.
————————————————————
They won’t be getting much of a pitcher with the backups and they won’t trade the front 3.
I wanted Cameron for one year, not two, but if the choice was Cameron for two years at $15.5m or Damon for two years at some stupid figure, I would opt for Cameron because he can still play defense at a high level. So in terms of offense/defense he has more value.
As for Posada’s comments, veteran want to play with veterans. His views should be ignored.
The not bringing back Matsui because they don’t want a full time DH thing doesn’t make ANY sense if they sign Nick Johnson.
—————————————————–
Not necessarily, Nick Johnson can play first base on days that Teixeira DH’s. Matsui, on the other hand, couldn’t play the field…at all.
Laura not sure why you think the rotating DH is a load of bunk ?
It worked well last year, and was a major reason why Matsui had a productive season. The rotating DH allowed Arod , Jeter, Posada and yes Matsui to be nice and fresh.
Matsui will always be a yankee favorite. But you theres got to come a time where you say Thank You and cut ties.
SJ44-
I am new around here but you seem to have a great deal of experience with baseball contracts and the inner workings surrounding them.
That being the case, I have a question(s) for you which I would very much appreciate your answer to.
How does a baseball agent, like Boras, handle a situation like Damon/Holliday wherein he is representing 2 clients who both want to go to the same team to play roughly the same position (let’s assume this please) ?
What is he required to tell each player about any offers for either ? What I mean is all that goes on with Damon totally transparent to Holliday and vice versa ?
I guess what I am really trying to get at is what are his SPECIFIC responsibilites to each player ?
Thanks in advance.
Looks like a “swarm” of Japanese reporters showed up for the Matsui press conference-suspect the Angels will be well on their way to recouping the money spent to ink him, in advertising and ticket sales.
Wonder how much interest signing one time Yankee Nick Johnson will generate in $$$???
Guess it’s time to re-introduce Kei”AAA Japanese Ninja Icon” and bring him back to the majors!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
Matsui isn’t a Yankee because the Yankees made Damon the priority over him and he didn’t want to wait to see how it played out and took a good offer from a good team. If Matsui had waited until after the Yankees either signed Damon or Damon signed somewhere else. I think he’d still be here.
If they signed, Holliday the Orioles would proabbly trade one of their current outfielders for a pitcher. They need pitching badly.
————————————————————
They won’t be getting much of a pitcher with the backups and they won’t trade the front 3.
========================================================
Why wouldn’t they consider trading one of their top 3 OF’s? If they are serious about improving they can get another outfielder/designated hitter a whole lot easier than a pitcher.
Laura, I hate losing Matsui too, but I’ve finally come to realize that he just wasn’t part of their plans going forward. He’ll always be one of my favorite Yankees and I’m thrilled for him that he got to close out his Yankee years with a ring and was WS MVP.
“Matsui isn’t a Yankee because the Yankees made Damon the priority over him ”
Which was a mistake because Damon is basically a DH as well, he is less likely to accept a one year contract, and Matsui is a more dangerous hitter.
grumble grumble grumble….
Mike, they didn’t have a true rotating DH this year. Matsui played 99pct of the time. Cash makes it sound like they want something more fluid.
Looks like a “swarm” of Japanese reporters showed up for the Matsui press conference-suspect the Angels will be well on their way to recouping the money spent to ink him, in advertising and ticket sales.
Wonder how much interest signing one time Yankee Nick Johnson will generate in $$$???
—————————————————
The Yankees don’t really need matsui’s Japanese revenue stream…they have the YES Network and 3.7 million fans to fill Yankee Stadium.
The decision to let Matsui go has nothing to do with revenue…it has more to do with how much production the Yankees feel they would get from him in 2010.
I’m acutally not that disappointed with any of those deals. I never wanted Lackey for that kind of money. There was really no place for Matsui (a non-positional DH) with the rotational DH that was going to happen this year. Cameron, while decent, is older than Damon so no thanks. Halladay was never going to happen. Not with Cliff Lee, and a bunch of others hitting the free agent market next year. So I was not surprised with the Yankees standing pat on any of them.
Which was a mistake because Damon is basically a DH as well, he is less likely to accept a one year contract, and Matsui is a more dangerous hitter.
——————————————————-
Matsui WAS a more dangerous hitter. No one knows how damgerous he will be in the future.
I know, Erin. That does give me some comfort.
The Angels made much more sense for Matsui than the Yankees.
Gb7-
A nurse who looks like Karloff would be preferrable to one named Wratchet, or is she like that too ? To take your mind off the smoking I suggest polishing the Blunderbuss. I am sure it is right at your bedside isn’t it ?
I used to be a smoker. Took me 3 tries to quit. I went cold turkey. IMO the only way to quit is to really want to. I had to convince myself that I was just like a heroin addict in the sense that if I took just one puff, or had just one smoke it was all over. That’s how I beat it.
I know I am new here but I have enjoyed your posts so I hope you dont mind me wishing you well.
Scott is pretty open with his clients.
Both guys know what’s happening and he’s good at keeping his clients informed.
Both guys are at different stages of their careers.
When their deals are complete, the dollars and years will reflect that.
I am very sorry to see Matsui go, but the prevailing thought is that we are sunk without a true #5 hitter.
Without looking at the splits, anybody care to guess how many games Matsui actually started batting 5th?
I’m not sure where this notion that Matsui was going to start stinking up the joint comes from, but I don’t buy it. He showed no signs of decline where Damon has.
I am not disappointed w/ those deals either. I still think Damon is coming back, and this Nick Johnson talk is to show Johnny the Yankees have other options.
I will miss Matsui, and it will be strange to see him in an Angels uni, as it was to see Abreu.
Mike, they didn’t have a true rotating DH this year. Matsui played 99pct of the time. Cash makes it sound like they want something more fluid.
- i don’t think that entirely true. Didn’t Arod , Posada. Damon , even Jeter play some DH .
Our team isn’t getting younger. Our core players need some time off ,Allowing the DH role to be a “break” to our older players will benefit everyone.
jpb1973
December 17th, 2009 at 8:54 am
If they signed, Holliday the Orioles would proabbly trade one of their current outfielders for a pitcher. They need pitching badly.
————————————————————
They won’t be getting much of a pitcher with the backups and they won’t trade the front 3.
========================================================
Why wouldn’t they consider trading one of their top 3 OF’s? If they are serious about improving they can get another outfielder/designated hitter a whole lot easier than a pitcher.
————————————————————
Who would it be? They have three high average, power hitting, better fielding, young players that make very little money. The highest paid is Markakis at an average of $11 mil over 5 years. All of them are more valuable to the Orioles than holliday would be.
I’ll try to get back later. Typing on the iPhone is brutal!
Mark
I seem to remember that there was a number of times when Matsui and Posada flipped, w/ Po batting 5th…is that correct?
jpb1973
“Matsui WAS a more dangerous hitter. No one knows how damgerous he will be in the future.”
Using the word know is absurd. But you can project a hitter’s aging curve by their swing and plate discipline. Matsui’s swing and plate discipline make him a much better bet going forward.
Plate discipline = IS0 D
Matsui’s is .078
Damon’s is .067
Cameron to Boston? So what. They upgrade their defense a bit, in a home ballpark that doesn’t require a great defensive outfield. Cameron had a very good April and May last year. Take that out, and project his remaining numbers over a full season, he looks like this- 19HRs, 62 RBIs, .235 BA, 168 Ks.
Not so great. Then factor in that he probably won’t start as well because he will be adjusting to a league he hasn’t seen in years, and he is another year older. I am glad they signed him instead of Bay or Holliday.
The Damon thing is all gamesmanship right now. Getting Curtis Granderson ups the Yankees’ position. Cameron to the Sox ups Damon’s. Damon talking about moving on. Yankees talk about Nick Johnson…
it’s Pettitte 2008 redux….
Sj-
Thank you for responding. Please enlighten me some more.
Is it considered ethical for Boras to “push” one client over the other in such a situation, or must he be completly even-handed in his approach ?
For example, does he just let the Yankees know that either of his clients is available in a trade for the right price and just leave it to the Yanks to make their wishes known, or is he allowed to “sell” one more than the other ?
It may seem like I am belaboring this point but I really would like to understand these types of inner workings. Right now I do not.
It’s tough to play good defense in Fenway’s CF. Just ask Ellsbury.
MTU
December 17th, 2009 at 9:01 am
Gb7-
A nurse who looks like Karloff would be preferrable to one named Wratchet, or is she like that too ? To take your mind off the smoking I suggest polishing the Blunderbuss. I am sure it is right at your bedside isn’t it ?
————————————————————
They could be twins. I’m still fighting the need for a cigarette, but, so far, it’s been 5 days today. Only 40 more years and i’ll have it beat.
sunny615
Except unlike Pettitte, Damon isn’t worth having back.
Matsui only started 116 games this past season. That number surprised me.
upstate kate
“I am not disappointed w/ those deals either. I still think Damon is coming back, and this Nick Johnson talk is to show Johnny the Yankees have other options.”
That might make sense if the Yankees were the ones to leak the talks with Nick, but they weren’t, it was Nick’s agent.
A couple of things strike me now that I think back.
Damon was only in the Yankees’ plans IF he took what they wanted to pay him. Right from the get-go, it seems like Boras was selling Damon to non-Yankees’ teams – the announcement about Damon’s superior genetics and being in a-one condition, etc. The Yankees would know better than anyone the exact state of Damon’s abilities.
And Cashman’s statements that post-season play would have no bearing on his decisions about constructing his 2010 team, and that if the price was right, Damon and Matsui could still be in play.
I think this entire situation has been telegraphed from the start.
So, all in all, I think that the Yankees have been looking past BOTH Damon and Matsui.
What they’re look toward? Anyone’s guess, I suppose.
The reason the RS signed Lackey is for payback to the Yankees for signing Tex last year.
It was reported that Tex signed with the Yankees because his wife liked NY better than Boston.
This year the RS looked for a wife that wanted to come to Boston.
Lackey’s wife is from Maine and her family are RS fans. The RS got their pay back.
The Yankees didn’t rotate the DH his year. It was Matsui. He started 116 games at DH. Take out the inter-league non DH games, and the % of Matsui at DH is higher. That leaves about 35 games started at DH by others. Some of those were when Matsui needed time off, not because they were trying to rotate the spot.
The only DHs that start every game are Frank Thomas in his prime, and ‘milkshake’ Ortiz in his prime, such as it was. Even Adam Lind, best DH this year, only started 95 games at DH.
GB-
The physical cravings will diminsh in approx. 2 weeks. The psychological desire to smoke remains for a lifetime. in your case another 40 years. If you really want to quit just tell yourself that you cannot take even 1 puff from here on out and you’ll make it. You will have to be vigilant for the
next 40 years. If you are not up for that just give in and keep smoking its certainly easier. best of luck.
GreenBeret7
December 17th, 2009 at 9:10 am
I’m still fighting the need for a cigarette, but, so far, it’s been 5 days today.
*******************
Good for you GB!
Ugh, I forgot the Granderson press conference was today and neglected to tape it. I hope YES will replay it.
“It’s tough to play good defense in Fenway’s CF. Just ask Ellsbury.”
It’s difficult, no doubt. But, it is not as spacious as some of the others, which have more of a requirement for a very good CF. In a smaller park with quirks, like Fenway, it takes a CF who learns the quirks of the field, but may not be as great in, say, Tigers Stadium, Citi Field, or Yankee Stadium.
I quit smoking years ago. I don’t even think about it anymore, except to wonder what I was thinking by doing it.
BTW, the answer to the question, how many games batting 5th for Matsui?
He started a grand total of 63 games in the 5 Hole.
Basically, Scott talks to Cashman about both guys but, with differing strategies.
Short term option= Damon.
Long term option=Holliday.
Once Cashman decides which way to go, if he decides at all for either guy, Scott then centers his negotiations around that player.
Couldn’t tell you where it stands right now.
I do however think there is more dialogue re: Holliday and the Yankees than what’s being reported.
Mark in Tampa
I think every CF in MLB requires very good defense.
“I think this entire situation has been telegraphed from the start.
So, all in all, I think that the Yankees have been looking past BOTH Damon and Matsui.
What they’re look toward? Anyone’s guess, I suppose.”
Doreen,
I think you’re right. If for some crazy reason Damon had quickly came to his senses and said he would take the same type of contract that Abreu took from the Angels and that Matsui agreed to come back for 6M with the Yankees then I could see the Yankees signing both of them. However, I think Cashman is smart enough to realize that Damon wasn’t go to take such a deal not with Boras being his agent and therefore it didn’t make sense to sign Matsui either because in both cases, Cashman has his eye on other players. Who these players are, we don’t know yet, but what has happened this week with Cameron and Matsui signing has no effect on whatever plan Cashman is working towards.
I think something is going to break between now and next Wednesday?
Rich in NJ – Not at the $13 mil/per he’s looking for, but if he’s willing to go 2 at $8 mil – he might be.
“Once Cashman decides which way to go, if he decides at all for either guy, Scott then centers his negotiations around that player.
Couldn’t tell you where it stands right now.
I do however think there is more dialogue re: Holliday and the Yankees than what’s being reported.”
SJ,
I think you’re also right. There is dialogue going on now with Boras and I don’t think it’s about Damon.
Rich in NJ
Oh, I didn’t realize that. It should still make JD realize that there are other viable options.
MaineYankee
http://www.bostondirtdogs.com absolutely agrees w/ you on that. They seem more excited about Krista Lackey than her husband
Doreen, I agree the Yanks only wanted Damon at the right price….but now, I think the time has passed. What Damon wants and needs is different from what the Yankees want and need – as such, they each need to go in different directions. I also don’t want to go through the LF merry-go-round every year…..sigh Holliday and be done with it.
Christmas seems to be the magic deadline a lot of the times.
I think Damon said this week (boy, he’s been a chatty guy, hasn’t he?) that all of his contracts have been signed in the days between Dec. 20 and 25.
sunny615
Given the Yankees pre-existing payroll commitments for 2011, the money they will have to pay Jeter and Mo, with Joba and Phil becoming arb eligible, and the tremendous FA class that will be available, giving Damon two years would be one of the dumbest things in Cashman’s tenure.
Good, I see that YES will replay the presser several times today. I hope it’s on WFAN….
If the Yankees were to sign Johnson, I believe that will end any consideration of Damon, Holliday(whom I believe is only being actively considered by we bloggers), or any other outfielder. Granderson replaces Damon’s offense and Johnson, suspect health permitting, replaces Matsui.
Personally, I think that would be a mistake. The Yankees don’t have any minor league outfielders that can forseeably be starters for at least two years, probably more. With that in mind, I am still for Holliday.
Damon called out Hughes for not getting the job done – maybe he’ll call out Cashman for the same, lol.
“I think every CF in MLB requires very good defense”
Well, yeah, but I am saying that traditionally Boston looks more for the better bat than the better glove. Give me the choice of Ellsbury-CF, Bay-LF; or Cameron-CF, Ellsbury/Hermida-LF, and I think the choice is obvious.
I am not saying that Nick Swisher would be an adequate Fenway CF, or anything like that.
Sj-
Many thanks. That answers my question and is the essence of what I wanted to know.
So if I understand your post correctly it is more up to the Yankees to express their desire than for Boras to “push” one client over the other.
He merely presents both as options with different requirements for signing and plays off of what the Yankees interest seems to be. In some ways he would seem to have to be more “passive” than I expected even though I would think Boras is anything but “passive” as a person. Very interesting.
“a .250 hitting outfielder with 20-home-run power isn’t impossible to find. ”
One that plays spectacular defense in CF is. He actually would have fit in to this team because Granderson might be a better fit in LF going forward. Lots of people around the game have said that he should move there.
I obviously also disagree with your rationalization of letting Matsui go. I think he was a cost effective fit for the DH spot on a team that needs more offense as it stands right now.
Right now I think the best fit is probably Matt Holliday and while he’s a great player he’s also quite expensive. I really hope Cashman can swing that deal because he fills our hole at LF and he’s good enough that he makes the need for an impact bat at DH much lesser.
Posters here seem to forget last years Hot Stove season. People were wondering how the Yankees were going to replace the offense that was lost last year.
That turned into #27, so I guess that turned out okay. I don’t think that they will be sastified to be one and done.
Time to sit by the stove, keeep warm, have a cup of green tea
and wait to see the next move that we didn’t expect.
I agree with Chad – I’m not terribly upset by any of the player moves that went on this week because I don’t think any of the players were in the cards for the Yankees anyway.
The Nick Johnson thing both makes sense and doesn’t all at once. On the one hand he represents an awesome option for the second spot in the batting order, on the other hand he doesn’t really give the team the flexibility that Cashman was looking for. True, he can play first base, but really how many times is he going to have to do that? I suppose it’s possible he could play a passable outfield if he really worked at it all spring training, but that’s a pretty big risk to take. That said, if Johnson’s the guy and they DH him with Swisher in RF and Melky in LF I would be alright with that.
It’s also possible that Nick represents a stick with which the Yankees are trying to spook Damon into coming down on his contract demands.
If they do sign Johnson I think it effectively puts an end to any Damon or Vlad talk, and while Holliday would still remain an option I have long believed that the Yankees were only going to add one more bat to the lineup and then focus on pitching.
Heyman posted yesterday that the Yankees and Casey Close have had a lot of very productive conversations on Ben Sheets but the Yankees believe that Sheets isn’t going to sign until January at the earliest.
Good morning!
Tis the season to be shopping
upstate kate
December 17th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Rich in NJ
Oh, I didn’t realize that. It should still make JD realize that there are other viable options.
MaineYankee
http://www.bostondirtdogs.com absolutely agrees w/ you on that. They seem more excited about Krista Lackey than her husband
—————————————————–
I saw that and also heard on local SR that she was a Me. native.
One that plays spectacular defense in CF is. He actually would have fit in to this team because Granderson might be a better fit in LF going forward. Lots of people around the game have said that he should move there.
Yankees were never going to move Granderson to LF – at least not in the next two years.
I personally thought Cameron would have been an attrocious fit here for a couple of reasons:
1. I remember how he had trouble adjusting to a corner spot when the Mets shifted him to add Carlos Beltran
2. With him and Granderson in the same lineup you have a ton of strikeouts
3. I prefer Granderson hit in a power spot in the lineup (barring the arrival of a certified slugger) which means the team would need a number two hitter, because of Cameron’s strikeouts I don’t think he fits that role.
“Scott is pretty open with his clients.
Both guys know what’s happening and he’s good at keeping his clients informed.
Both guys are at different stages of their careers.
When their deals are complete, the dollars and years will reflect that”
——————————————–
SJ:
did you happen to notice the post(s) by “Lost-Holliday-IN” yesterday eveing ?
if yes, your prospective?
SJ-
This person(if legit) seems to know. Repost from last night
below:
Lost in Holliday-in December 16th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Holliday:
He thinks the Yankees just may be serious. That they aren’t going to bid for him. Though he feels it’s just the crickets chirping PR. He’s doubtful and his dad has ants in his pants.
Secret dreams are that it is done by xmas and he is on the Yankees.
Boras wants to make Damon happy, but it looks like it is not going to be in NY. Still possible? Sure..
Doesn’t want to piss Damon off and push Holliday to Yankees.
Everybody’s pointing the finger, but nobody is taking action.
My thoughts? Well, last year I was certain about Tex, this year, I’m not as certain, but I still see Holliday in LF/NY
This post was really the motivation for my question(s) to you. IMHO they are legit. I hope they post again today.
Johnson is injury prone and cannot run. Johnson hit 270 in the NL which means about 250 in the AL. Cameron hit what 230 in the NL which means he wont hit in the AL either. Matt Holliday? looks great in NL did nothing in AL in Oakland. SO if you didnt sign Matsui who is much better than all 3 of those guys offensivley, then grab Bay
Vinny,
I did not. What did he say?
Not necessarily, Nick Johnson can play first base on days that Teixeira DH’s. Matsui, on the other hand, couldn’t play the field…at all.
___
So can Nick Swisher.
So the Orioles are rumored to be in on Holliday? I don’t get that move, nor do I understand them signing Mike Gonzalez. The orioles are improving but I think Macphail is getting way ahead of himself right now. Baltimore has a good base of young players but they are probably a year or two away from competing in the AL East. The smart move would be to spend big in the international market / draft rather than wasting money on an unproven closer and a guy in LF that isn’t really a top-tier talent.
SJ-
see my post above I posted some of his info.
Tex plays almost every day, there’s no need to DH him. Johnson is a great hitter but he’s not an ideal fit – for the team, or himself. I say that because he hurts himself in future deals if he limits himself to the DH spot right now.
Chip,
Just because the Yankees didn’t consider moving Granderson to LF doens’t make it the right move. Cameron would have been a great fit to play CF.
Someone here things Nick Johnson replaces Matsui’s numbers? That’s cute.
Johnson is injury prone and cannot run. Johnson hit 270 in the NL which means about 250 in the AL. Cameron hit what 230 in the NL which means he wont hit in the AL either. Matt Holliday? looks great in NL did nothing in AL in Oakland. SO if you didnt sign Matsui who is much better than all 3 of those guys offensivley, then grab Bay
___
Or Guerrero. The only time today i will make that point again.
Lost in Holliday-in December 16th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Holliday:
He thinks the Yankees just may be serious. That they aren’t going to bid for him. Though he feels it’s just the crickets chirping PR. He’s doubtful and his dad has ants in his pants.
Secret dreams are that it is done by xmas and he is on the Yankees.
Boras wants to make Damon happy, but it looks like it is not going to be in NY. Still possible? Sure..
Doesn’t want to piss Damon off and push Holliday to Yankees.
Everybody’s pointing the finger, but nobody is taking action.
My thoughts? Well, last year I was certain about Tex, this year, I’m not as certain, but I still see Holliday in LF/NY
—————————————
I see it as being possible that Boras is stuck with a minor conflict of interests here but at the end of the day it’s up to the player.
If Damon wants to stay with the Yankees he knows what he has to do. The thing about Damon is that we’ve seen this dance with him before. Saying how much he wants to stay with a certain team, how he feels very comfortable there and can’t see himself playing anywhere else – and then he up and left Boston for the Yankees because he got more money from New York. So with that in mind, I would take with a grain of salt his statements about his desire to stay with the Yankees.
If the Yankees put up a serious offer for Holliday then Boras has to take it to him or risk alienating his client if the offer gets leaked to the press.
I actually think it would be the better business decision for Boras to guide Holliday to the Yankees than Damon. Damon, if he gets shut out by the Yankees, is going to have a lot of other options because he’ll lower his asking price. Holliday on the other hand is a premium player who, at this stage, has three possible landing spots – St. Louis, NYY or NYM.
Just saw a highlight of Lackey’s presser. Oh, that voice!
He just said that the Red Sox was his first choice all along. Can’t wait to see his defense let him down against the Yankees.
Does this Nick Johnson thing have legs? Just the very fact that they’re talking is apparently newsworthy on the espnews scroll.
m
December 17th, 2009 at 9:43 am
Just saw a highlight of Lackey’s presser. Oh, that voice!
************************
m, I know. I had my back to the screen, and got all excited thinking the Muppets were on TV. Needless to say, I was very disappointed
lol, Erin. Muppets was the first thing that came to my mind.
I’m so over Johnny Damon right now. Pull the trigger on Holliday.
Matsui’s into.
Don’t like him in that stupid red hat.
It would have been fun to smoke out Damon’s real motive(money) before Cashman walks away.
For instance if Cashman would float, by one of the mediots say Rosenthal, that the Yankees were going to offer 2 yrs at 13mm. If Damon he bites,you know it’s all about “show me the money.”
If Damon turns that down, he really believes he’s able to last that long, even if he really can’t.
I SAY EXPOSE THE MERCENARY, he lied all season saying how much he wanted to stay,to flip at seasons end.
intro…
Gonzalez in the division. At least it’s the Orioles and not the Sox.
I’ve been kind of out of the loop on Damon, but did he really draw a line in the sand?
Johnson is injury prone and cannot run. Johnson hit 270 in the NL which means about 250 in the AL. Cameron hit what 230 in the NL which means he wont hit in the AL either. Matt Holliday? looks great in NL did nothing in AL in Oakland. SO if you didnt sign Matsui who is much better than all 3 of those guys offensivley, then grab Bay
Johnson played for the Nationals and Marlins, two home parks that are not hitter friendly. I would expect that if he comes to the Yankees and is playing games in Yankee Stadium that his average (and power) numbers will go up, this is especially true if he’s batting in the 2 spot between Derek and Tex.
Holliday also went to a very pitcher friendly park and was in the middle of a lineup where there were no other bats around him. Why give Matt Holliday a pitch to hit when you’ve got the strikeout machine that is Jack Cust or a washed up Jason Giambi up next? When Holliday was put in a lineup where there were other bats around him he returned to form.
“Just saw a highlight of Lackey’s presser. Oh, that voice!”
You see his wife??? Boston has some ugly mugs on that team, but they sure do manage to outkick their coverage when it comes to marryin’.
Damon in the Midwest,this I would have to see!!
Johnson is injury prone and cannot run. Johnson hit 270 in the NL which means about 250 in the AL. Cameron hit what 230 in the NL which means he wont hit in the AL either. Matt Holliday? looks great in NL did nothing in AL in Oakland. SO if you didnt sign Matsui who is much better than all 3 of those guys offensivley, then grab Bay
–
You do realize Nick Johnson did quite well for himself in the AL when he played for THE YANKEES?
fRANK
The ugly guy with a 7 figure income always looks better to some.
I like Damon & wish him the best. But if the Yanks sign Holliday, then Damons market falls thru the floor as the Yanks will not be there to hold up his value. Who is going to give a large contract to him? I believe he would be mostly limited to AL teams and who needs him? Oakland? Boston? Seattle? I don’t really see a viable team anywhere near his asking price.
matsui was the best dh option
to say nick johnson is better because he can play 1st base is comical
how many times did we wan’t to take matsui out of the lineup to dh others & it making us a better team???
zero
i just don’t see nj as good protection for arod & i don’t think we have a player on the roster unless miranda steps up & i doubt cashman goes in that direction
nj is a great hitter & a nice obp guy but 89 career hr is not the answer
matsui didn’t slow our offense down.he kept it moving perfectly so unless we have a good replacement it was a terrible idea to lose him for under 7 million dollars
signing damon to dh over matsui is a bad idea also
matsui is better & probably a lot cheaper & willing to take a 1 year contract unlike damon & if we sign damon for lf we still have a dh problem
we should of signed matsui,granderson & all we would be doing now is looking for a pitcher
Johnson couldn’t hit home runs or stay healthy the last time he was with NY. Not just that, but, his walks aren’t much of a threat as a DH.
Damon in the Midwest,this I would have to see!!
He started his career in Kansas City.
If the Yankees walked away from Damon I think he could wind up with: Atlanta, San Fran, NYM, St. Louis, Texas
“If you really want to quit just tell yourself that you cannot take even 1 puff from here on out and you’ll make it. You will have to be vigilant for the
next 40 years.”
gb7-
make a deal with yourself that the only time you can smoke is when you jump out of a plane.
that way you kill two birds with one stone.
“Does this Nick Johnson thing have legs?”
Might have more legs than Nick Johnson himself has. Injuries have really hurt his mobility. He was a really strong defensive 1B, but he’s really fallen off after those injuries. Still can get on base though, and that would be his job here. He’d help wear pitchers out, but he’d be a bit of a base clogger too.
I figure it out. Lost on Holliday aka lost in Tex is Heyman Boras mouthpiece. He said yesterday that he doesnt work for the Yankees but he knows things. Maybe Heyman can tell us where Beltre is going to end up. Any offers out there for Beltre Heyman? Maybe the Mariners can sign both Beltre and Damon now that the Yankees are not interested on him anymore.
Johnson couldn’t hit home runs or stay healthy the last time he was with NY. Not just that, but, his walks aren’t much of a threat as a DH.
GB – you’re thinking of a prototypical middle of the order slugging DH. That’s not what Johnson would be. He would be a number 2 hitter where his OBP would a major advantage for the Yankees.
What you want from Johnson is the ability to get on base so that Tex, Alex, and Granderson can drive him in.
Thanks, Randy. I always knew that I could count on you to come up with a solution to my problems. There’s a lot of Orville Moody humanity in you.
Vey:
You sayin’ John Lackey, plumbing supplies manager at Home Depot, somehow looks less appealing?
I’m fully aware of what I’m thinking in regard to Johnson. He offers nothing, unless NYYs are looking for a singles hitting plow horse.
sunny615
December 17th, 2009 at 8:58 am
I’m acutally not that disappointed with any of those deals. I never wanted Lackey for that kind of money. There was really no place for Matsui (a non-positional DH) with the rotational DH that was going to happen this year. Cameron, while decent, is older than Damon so no thanks. Halladay was never going to happen. Not with Cliff Lee, and a bunch of others hitting the free agent market next year. So I was not surprised with the Yankees standing pat on any of them.
———————————————————-
that is a bunch of crap
we won the ws with matsui dh’ing & a non rotating dh for the most part
our best team was with matsui dh’ing & the regulars at their positions & we would survive 1 year of matsui at 6.5 million
posada’s last year is when he will dh most of the time.
damon doesn’t offer us much more flexibility & will cost more for longer & won’t protect arod anyways because he will be in the 2 hole.
granderson is not the answer
Boras obviously has a conflict of interest if the Yanks want to talk about Holliday but agents deal with that all the time. The important thing is to be honest about it with the client… not the team or the public, but the client.
Cashman will probably make one offer to Damon for a limited time only. His defensive issues are there, but are overblown by some here. He is certainly more than adequate for LF 2X a week which will keep DH flexibility. I also bleieve his offense will improve with less wear and tear in the OF.
The # 2 spot is also way overblown, but I would expect to see Granderson in the # 2 spot against RHP and Swisher against LHP unless Granderson makes significant strides vs LHP in spring training.
Protecting Alex is also not a concern. There will be a potential 25-35 HR guy hitting behind him whether it’s Granderson, Posada, Cano or Swisher.
If the Yanks sign Damon I would consider this lineup:
SS Jeter
DH Damon
CF Granderson
3B Rodriguez
1B Teixiera
2B Cano
C Posada
LF Swisher
RF Cabrera
How old is Damon? And he’s -demanding- asking for 4 years?
Two cents:
Re: Damon vs. Holliday. The yanks had interest in Damon first but ONLY at the right price. I dont beleive that Damon was satisfied with what the Yanks presented to him, early or later.
Sufficient time has passed w/o resolution and Damon wants to move on, and that allows the yanks to re-engage w. Boras on
Holliday. All is quiet because conversation(s)/negotiations are probably underway between Boras and the Yanks on holliday.
My belief is that just like with damon the Yanks have some limits in mind dollar-wise with respect to holliday in much the same way as they did w johnny. of course, those limits are much higher but not unlimited.
i think they are much more motivated towards Holliday than they were with damon. He is more expensive but is a much better long-term solution than damon. I beleieve Holliday wants the Yanks and the yanks now want him, and that the yankees are prepared to match or even exceed the Cards 5 year offer.They may not need to exceed it just match it given that Holliday’s dream is to play for the Yanks much like tex.
My prediction is that if a properly structured deal can be worked out (as SJ has mentioned before) this will be a done deal before Xmas. If another unknown bidder turns up, or the price is just TOO high then the Yanks will move on. I think the probabilities favor a deal getting done. Both sides want it and that makes it likely to happen.
Apologies for the length of this post.
Definitely a market for Damon in Seattle.
If Posada, Johnson and Swisher load the bases and Granderson hits a gapper, he can pass both Nicks on the way to third, where he’ll meet Jorge coming back to tag up.
Looking at Matsui’s splits from last year makes me sad. .900 OPS in every month but 2 (where his knees were really bothering him). .950 OPS close and late, .300 with RISP, 1.2 OPS as a PHer
Chip
Wasn’t it fun watching Torre walking Pujols,and striking out Holliday in the nlds? I loved the deer caught in a headlights look,when all the pressure to hit was on him.
Torre didn’t do a lot this past postseason, but he played the Cardinals great. I seen the interview on Torre’s strategy. He was afraid of Pujols, and decided to attack Holliday.
GreenBeret7
-Johnson offers more than just a singles hitter. He’s has a great OB percentage. and has some pop. Would make a pretty good number 2 hitter.
I believe he’s only had an on base percentage of less than .400 only twice in his career.
I’m fully aware of what I’m thinking in regard to Johnson. He offers nothing, unless NYYs are looking for a singles hitting plow horse.
–
Yea it’d be a real shame to have someone who gets on base 40% of the time, who hits 20% line drives, a guy who hit .290 the last 2 full seasons and before his wrist injury hit 23 HRs in the most cavernous ballpark you’ve ever seen
I’m fully aware of what I’m thinking in regard to Johnson. He offers nothing, unless NYYs are looking for a singles hitting plow horse.
What the Yankees are looking for is someone who can replace Damon as a #2 hitter. They could use Granderson there but obviously want someone who has better on base numbers.
You don’t need HR hitters at every spot in the lineup. If having Nick Johnson on base leads to Tex and Alex hitting 2 and 3 run homeruns rather than solo shots, that helps the team.
People need to stop talking about Holliday struggling in the AL because it’s just not accurate. He had a BAD April. After that he went .291/.416/.456 in May and .280/.374/.440 in June. He also raked while in Oakland in July, going .338/.413/.574 with them before being traded.
I say Holliday to the orioles – markakis to the yankees for joba and one of the 100′s of overrated pitching prospects they have in the minors…
Nick Johnson?
Why?
Maybe I’ve been dreaming and we didn’t win the WS, we don’t have Mark Teixeira at 1b and we’re still stuck with the stone statute Jason Giambi?
The Yankees need to stop tinkering with the part of the team that’s not broke.
“Definitely a market for Damon in Seattle.”
M’s probably have the two best defensive OF’s in the AL. They could survive with Damon as the 3rd OF. Don’t see how he fills there rather obvious need for power though.
MTU,
Great post but one small disagreement. I don’t think the Yanks initially wanted Damon back over Holliday. If so, then they fumbled the negotiations with Damon which is doubtful. The Yankees set their targets and they go all-out when they really want somebody.
I suspect Cashman contacted Boras in the beginning to let him know that they consider Damon a DH now and could only offer 1 year, low dollars as a quick fix but they’re more motivated to find a long-term solution in LF (hint hint Holliday). They probably also said that if they can’t find a LF that makes sense, they’ll stick with Melky Cabrera over Damon as a long term solution.
Boras has known all along that the Yanks want to pass on Damon and all these rumors about offers on the table and such are PR moves that serve to boost Damon’s value to other teams and convince Yankees fans that the Yankees appreciated Damon’s time here.
The Yankees did the same thing with Matsui. They floated rumors about 7 million dollar one year offers only to let him sign with the Angels for 1 year 6.5 million – uncontested – no bid from the Yanks at any point.
The Angels are going to have a serious threat to their division lead next year.
Nick Johnson?
Why?
Maybe I’ve been dreaming and we didn’t win the WS, we don’t have Mark Teixeira at 1b and we’re still stuck with the stone statute Jason Giambi?
The Yankees need to stop tinkering with the part of the team that’s not broke.
–
Are you aware that the New York Yankees currently have no DH?
I just read that Nick Johnson got injured when he had an idea running through his head..
If they are thinking nick johnson they might as well sign the giambino back – he’d sign for 10 bucks and a bottle of jack daniels…
Bring back Damon. Much better option than the little statue*.
Whether the player is a DH, LF, C, whatever. From the number two spot in the lineup most teams would prefer a player who hits 10-20 HR and gets on base 40% of the time than a guy who hits 30-40 HR and gets on base 34% of the time.
You want that 30-40 HR guy batting lower in the order where he can drive in runs set up by the guy who gets on base 40% of the time getting on base.
Johnson hits both left and right handed pitching and I will take his singles and doubles. The team has more than enough home run hitters.
NYY needs somebody to drive in runs and can stay healthy. They have table setters. They need somebody to bat behind Rodriguez. That’s not Johnson. Posada, at best will be in 120 games. Who bats behind him in the other 40+ games? Swisher? That should be fun.
Damon hit 7 homeruns on the road. Don’t think he’ll thrive in Safeco.
I agree with all but the Matsui statement. The NY Post now is reporting the Yankees are after Nick Johnson, who, with Texeira a young gold-glove quality 1B, is a DH. You can’t tell me you’d rather have Nick Johnson at DH rather than Matsui for the same cost. (I’d assume a Johnson signing would either be about 6-7mil for one or require 2 years – plus that stunts Miranda a bit if he’s going to be the backup 1b too?)
Cameron is getting old and Ks way too much (can’t have him and granderson in the same lineup, too many Ks). Lackey’s numbers are so odd (how does he have that WHIP and that ERA and only win 14 games a year with that line up in that division? – plus DL two straight years). The Jays would have charged Boston or the Yanks more for Halladay, can’t fault either for not getting in on that strange trade.
M’s probably have the two best defensive OF’s in the AL. They could survive with Damon as the 3rd OF. Don’t see how he fills there rather obvious need for power though.
Not only that but with Ichiro and Figgins they really don’t need another placesetter type.
Frank
December 17th, 2009 at 10:14 am
“Definitely a market for Damon in Seattle.”
M’s probably have the two best defensive OF’s in the AL. They could survive with Damon as the 3rd OF. Don’t see how he fills there rather obvious need for power though.
—
Well, they did go all-out to lock up Desmond DeChone Figgins as first order of business. With Ichiro and their style of play, I think they’re looking to be more of a small-ball team built on defense and pitching. Damon is a mobile, athletic fellow for a DH/LF.
The Orioles needs are bullpen arms and more than that a legit SS….the starters are Millwood,Guthrie,Tillman,Matusz,Bergesan young but very talented…with Mike Gonzalez they now have a closer but they could use another good vet arm for the pen…the lineup is solid and will be better
Roberts 2b
AJones CF
Markakis RF
Holliday lf
Wieters C
Scott DH
Bell 3b
the holes in the team are @ 1b and SS…I have said for two years if I were McPhail the guy I’d be calling is the Brewers for a trade for Prince Fielder….But signing Holliday as you can see makes alot of sense for them. They’d then need to try to move Reimold-who I think has more value right now than Pie-for a young cheap good SS who can hit which is tough because those guys are scarce right now. One name that may make sense for them is Everth Cabrera from the Pads…
Whoever the Yanks sign as a DH needs to be able to provide something other than OBP. Johnson has been swinging the bat well, but can’t run and can’t help at any position other than 1B where Tex misses maybe a game a month.
“Damon hit 7 homeruns on the road. Don’t think he’ll thrive in Safeco.”
True. He lost about 90 points of his slugging %age in road games. He slugged around .530 at home, .440 or so on the road.
Jerkface, The entire team is one big DH.
Frank
I don’t know anything about the plumbing,TMI, the bank account has been known to work wonders!!
Brett-
Thank you for responding. You may be right about the original strategy. Only Lost in Holliday could fill us in on that one. Otherwise we are very much in agreement. I think the odds favor us getting holliday at this point. I hope the Cards are more restricted because of the Pujols aspect, and that no one else is laying in the weeds for cashman. Baring that I think it’s a done deal. He would be another great Xmas present. It’s beginning to become a tradition now for the Yanks. Fingers crossed.
NYY needs somebody to drive in runs and can stay healthy. They have table setters. They need somebody to bat behind Rodriguez. That’s not Johnson. Posada, at best will be in 120 games. Who bats behind him in the other 40+ games? Swisher? That should be fun.</i?
1. Yankees have 6 guys who will hit over 20 HR next year if they stay healthy: Cano, Granderson, Posada, Tex, Alex, Swisher – how many more run producers do you need?
2. Yankees have one table setter in Jeter.
3. If the Yankees sign Johnson and bat him 2nd then they put Granderson and his 30+ HR in behind Alex.
Jerkface, The entire team is one big DH.
–
Good, so having NJ at DH won’t be an issue.
MaineYankee
were u the one that raved about green tea???
Reposting due to HTML mess up
NYY needs somebody to drive in runs and can stay healthy. They have table setters. They need somebody to bat behind Rodriguez. That’s not Johnson. Posada, at best will be in 120 games. Who bats behind him in the other 40+ games? Swisher? That should be fun.
GB
1. Yankees have 6 guys who will hit over 20 HR next year if they stay healthy: Cano, Granderson, Posada, Tex, Alex, Swisher – how many more run producers do you need?
2. Yankees have one table setter in Jeter.
3. If the Yankees sign Johnson and bat him 2nd then they put Granderson and his 30+ HR in behind Alex.
The entire team is one big DH. Except when Cervelli’s catching for Posada. And Pena’s in for Jeter. And Gardner’s playing for [Damon].
Wow. Chris Henry’s gone. Not a surprise, but that’s sad for his family.
One more thing Brett. I’m greedy I want Chapman under that tree too !
“If the Yankees sign Johnson and bat him 2nd then they put Granderson and his 30+ HR in behind Alex.”
You’re going to place Detroit’s leadoff hitter 5th in the Yankees’ lineup? A Rod would lead the league in walks. Teams would be crazy to pitch to him.
If they’re serious about going with a rotating DH, they better get a serious bat to sit on the bench.
I hope the Giants bite on Damon. That field will make him retire, or they release him!! He could go to the O’s or Nats’
count his money and never be heard from again!!
Jerkface
December 17th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Jerkface, The entire team is one big DH.
–
Good, so having NJ at DH won’t be an issue.
———-
Didn’t I tell you to stop huffing those bottles under the sink?
Hope Hal doesn’t decide to play “Grinch” on Holliday. Trust Cashman Hal. he delivered the goods last year. he is becoming a great GM just help him a little bit more with the budget and you wont regret it.
MTU
December 17th, 2009 at 10:24 am
One more thing Brett. I’m greedy I want Chapman under that tree to
—
Same here, although I suspect the Yankees are open to grooming him as a closer. They’ll break him down, do their thing and give him his innings in the minors, but they probably project him to be a dominant closer in a worst-case scenario.
He’ll be on an innings limit in the minors in 2010 but I’m curious to see if they switch him to the pen in AAA when he nears his cap and then call him up in September to take a peek.
You’re going to place Detroit’s leadoff hitter 5th in the Yankees’ lineup? A Rod would lead the league in walks. Teams would be crazy to pitch to him.
And Granderson would make them pay by hitting homeruns.
Curtis Granderson is, offensively, a left handed Alfonso Soriano. Yes, tremendous speed which would indicate that he should be a top of the order hitter, but also outstanding power and a lot of strikeouts which profile better into the middle of the order.
If the Yankees sign a slugger like Matt Holliday – then you put Granderson in the 2 spot. If instead they sign a Damon or Nick Johnson that’s the guy who hits in the two spot and you utilize Granderson’s power in the middle of the order.
GB, the Yankees have plenty of firepower behind NJ; who’s to say he has to be a traditional DH? He would fit into the Yankees plan as far as taking pitches and getting on base……
Anyone else find it hilarious that Boston didn’t go a penny over AJ’s contract for Lackey?
How about sign Matt Holliday and make the lineup this:
vs righties:
Jeter SS
Granderson CF
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Holliday LF
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Miranda DH
vs lefties:
Jeter SS
Swisher DH
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Holliday LF
Posada C
Cano 2B
Cabrera RF
Granderson CF
Looks pretty good to me.
I doubt very seriously that Jack Z and the M’s would have any interest in Damon as an outfielder.They place a heavy emphasis on defense and all their research would tell them that Damon is terrible with the glove. They signed Griff so he will be doing most of the DH’ing and they have Ichiro and Figgins 1-2 in the lineup and need a middle of the order bat which Damon is not. They also i’m sure know that Damon’s power is a product of Yankee Stadium and would disappear in Safeco(i mean ARod was complaining that it’s too big)
I never said Granderson would replace Matsui.
2010 will be different. Arod now has hip issues. He’ll need time at DH. The others aren’t necessarily DH’s either, but being on the wrong side of the 30′s, they are going to need days off. Matsui – a full time DH – would have played, what, 70% of the time? None during interleague games in NL ballparks. I’m not saying Matsui wouldn’t have been a fit, but a DH that can occassionally play the OF has more flexibility than one that can’t. And Cash has repeatedly stated, they view Matsui as a non-positional DH. I also stated in another post that the Angels were looking for a full time DH. They’re team as currently constructed would give Matsui more at-bats than the Yankees would. Matsui is a better fit with the Angels than the Yankees and they went after Matsui, the Yankees did not. There are other DH’s on the market and I’m sure Cash will find one that fits… like Vlad for example.
Sign OBP Jesus, sign Holliday, then worry about pitching. Good morning everyone!
With a few true righties in the lineup, I’d rather see the Yanks add Xavier Nady in addition to Holliday. This way, Melky’s not guaranteed anything in RF since Nady can DH while Swisher plays RF. Melky would be battling Nady for AB’s.
Furthermore, when Melky’s in RF and Swish is the DH, Nady would make a great pinch hitter vs. lefties. Nady would be a perfect compliment to the bench.
The Yankees should go with 3 defensive specialists on the bench and a hitter.
That’s Cervelli, Hoffman, Pena and Nady.
GB, the Yankees have plenty of firepower behind NJ; who’s to say he has to be a traditional DH? He would fit into the Yankees plan as far as taking pitches and getting on base……
Betsy,
Agree 100%
Brett-
Let’s see if the braintrust wants him first. he aint gonna come cheap that’s for sure. Again, if the Yanks decide they want him, and the money is there he will be ours. I guess there does have be a limit on all this somewhere though. They are not like the Government which just turns on the printing press when they want more money, and we all know from childhood that it doesn’t grow on trees. or does it ?
Bret -
I think the Yankees are going to probably go into spring training hoping that Hoffmann can fill the role that you have in mind for Nady. Cashman touted his splits against left handed pitching for a reason.
I agree that Nady would provide a low cost bench option, and I wouldn’t mind bringing him back, I just don’t think it’s in the cards.
I can’t believe I agree with Chip (and disagree with GB), but I do. I’m not married to Johnson, but he’s a fine possibility.
Wow, that’s just terrible – poor Chris Henry. My condolences go out to his friends and family.
If NYY wanted a lead-footed DH, they would have kept one that was suited to be a DH. Luckily, there are a couple of teams that are willing to give Johnson more than one year as a DH, which would pigeon-hole Johnson as a washed-up 1st baseman turned DH.
Have a trade idea…Melky for Nate McLouth. I think the braves would do it too. Melky has 3 years left of arbitration and McLouth is signed for the next 2 years with a option for a 3rd year with 11 million guaranteed …he would be a perfect number 2 hitter…With Him, Curtis and Brett would would have a very athletic OF…then we could make Swisher the DH…we would not be over budget too
hey Phil
I didn’t see if you responded to my question yesterday about Cash having to deal with Jeet and Mo’s new deals next year? What do you think Cash does with Mo? Do they really give 42yr old pitcher(G.O.A.T.) a 3yr deal at the top pay grade?
The only problem I would have with a Nick Johnson signing is that on a day when someone like Alex or Jorge DH’s you have to find a different number 2 hitter since Johnson wouldn’t have a place to play.
My preference remains that the Yankees bring in an outfielder and DH Swisher and then on the days when someone else is DHing Swisher plays the field and Melky sits, that way the only spot in the lineup that gets disrupted is the 9 hole.
The entire team is one big DH? How on earth did we ever win last year……how will we survive this year? The Mayans were wrong – the world is ending in 2010, not 2012
right now we don’t have an ideal number 2 & 5 hitter imo
nj might be an ok # 2 hitter but he is slow & we still don’t have a decent
# 5 hitter
holliday solves a lot
swish can dh with miranda & others & holliday bats in the 5 spot
granderson is not the ideal number 2 hitter against lefties either
lineup
jeter
cg
tex
arod
holliday
posada
cano
swisher
melky
or
jeter
cg
holliday
arod
tex
posada
cano
swisher
melky
i think we have to sign holliday unless we get 2 players???
the braves just traded FOR mclouth. also. HE’S AWFUL…
why are people so down on melky? just let him keep playing and he’ll shut you all up.
MTU
December 17th, 2009 at 10:24 am
One more thing Brett. I’m greedy I want Chapman under that tree too !
MTU:
You just may get your wish. Yanks are trying to set up a private workout for Chapman according to riveraveblues.com
i don’t think granderson is ever going to bat behind melky in the 9 spot ever. everyone seems to be proposing that. even against lefties. he hit 30 hrs last year.
also, at what point did posada become incapable of batting 5th?
MTU,
The $$ is seldom a serious issue with the Yanks.
The dropped 40-45 million in payroll to start this offseason, right?
If they add Holliday (14) on a backloaded deal, Pettitte (11.75), Granderson (5.5), Chapman on a creative deal as well (4), Nady (2) and Josh Johnson (2)
, they still come in under 40 million added payroll for the offseason.
I didn’t account for raises but hey, cash money is good to have.
Swish would be a terrible DH and anyway, he’s not a bad enough fielder to relegate him to sitting on the bench most of the time.
Johnson at DH would be fine if you sign him WITH Holliday, not by himself.
R.I.P. Chris Henry
“Have a trade idea…Melky for Nate McLouth. I think the braves would do it too.”
From all reports, the Braves are in pursuit of a bat and using one of their starters as bait. Given that, I can’t imagine they’d move McLouth for Melky and make their offense even worse than they feel it is now.
If NYY wanted a lead-footed DH, they would have kept one that was suited to be a DH. Luckily, there are a couple of teams that are willing to give Johnson more than one year as a DH, which would pigeon-hole Johnson as a washed-up 1st baseman turned DH.
GB –
It’s not a question of finding a traditional DH. The Yankees are looking for players who can get on base ahead of Tex, Alex, and Granderson. That’s why they want Damon back. In that case, Nick Johnson is a perfect fit for the lineup. Is he going to steal bases like Damon? No, of course not. But he’s going to give pitchers fits, he’s going to wear them down, get on base, and hopefully score 100 runs with Tex, Alex, and Granderson driving him in.
Johnson is just not reliable, as far as staying healthy. If you sign him alone, you are basically accepting the fact that we could see Melky AND Miranda in the lineup together for an extended period of time.
When you sign a guy like Johnson, you do so as a “bonus”. If we sign him alone, he isn’t a “bonus”, he is going to be relied upon in a big way.
Granderson is not a weak little leadoff hitter. Have people already forgotten this since it’s been all of a little over a week since the trade was completed? He’s got a lot of power…….
Chip
December 17th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Bret -
I think the Yankees are going to probably go into spring training hoping that Hoffmann can fill the role that you have in mind for Nady. Cashman touted his splits against left handed pitching for a reason.
I agree that Nady would provide a low cost bench option, and I wouldn’t mind bringing him back, I just don’t think it’s in the cards.
—
Cashman’s mention of Hoffman’s splits definitely speaks to Cash’s awareness of the Yankees righty deficient lineup. At any rate, I think Melky plays better when his job is on the line and Nady mounts more of a threat to Melky than Hoffman. Nady’s a proven major league hitter who hits lefties, Hoffman is not.
That said, I still want Hoffman on the bench so long as Nady is the DH/PH and righty to come in there for Granderson vs. tough lefties.
Again— what in NJ’s career indicates that he is going to stay healthy?
He is a huge gamble. You could afford to take it if you sign Holliday as well. Otherwise, it is just not worth the risk.
Betsy, you’re depending on Posada staying healthy to provide firepower. NYY would be better off signing Aubrey Huff, who has the power, hits for a good average and can at least play more than first base when needed.
For me anyway, another starter is more important than who bats behind Arod. With everyone’s rotation looking better (Mariners, Boston, Phillies) in 2010, it’s important for the Yankees to find someone who can be a solid 3 or 4.
bru
December 17th, 2009 at 10:23 am
MaineYankee
were u the one that raved about green tea???
—————————————————–
No that was someone else. I was just trying to relax things a bit.
From all reports, the Braves are in pursuit of a bat and using one of their starters as bait. Given that, I can’t imagine they’d move McLouth for Melky and make their offense even worse than they feel it is now.
—
Totally understand that but the Braves are also trying to save money…Taking McLouth for Melky and maybe Miranda is pretty much a even swap, but McLouth is owed money while Melky is not…Melky trade value is high…just a idea
Just out of curiosity – how do we know Nick Swisher would be a terrible DH? He’s played 13 games there in his career.
It’s not really a question of Swisher being bad defensively in the OF, he’s just not as good as Melky.
To maximize the OF defense this is probably how it would shake out.
If the Yankees bring in Damon, then Damon DH’s and Melky plays LF with Swisher in RF
If the Yankees bring in Holliday then Holliday’s in LF, Swisher DH and Melky RF
and if they bring in Johnson then Swisher is in RF and Melky’s in LF
Whenever you sign an injury prone guy, you sign him as a risk/reward guy, that you don’t expect much out of, but can give your team a huge lift if he stays healthy, but doesn’t kill you if he doesn’t. Sheets is the same way.
Considering we’re going to have a below average player in left field, putting the injury-prone Johnson at DH is a risky proposition. Because if he gets injured, we get below average production from 2 different positions, in whoever replaces Johnson. It is just not worth the risk unless he is signed along with Matt Holliday.
you all keep talking about NJ’s durability, do you even know what his injuries were? other than his balky back which, fine that could be an issue… every other injury he’s had was a freak accident… collision on a fly ball, bad hop ball hits him in the face and breaks his cheekbone… stuff like that.
it’s not like he’s constantly pulling muscles and stuff like that.
NYY has as many right handed hitters in their line-up as they do left handers. 2 of each. They have 4 switch hitters.
champ809,
I didn’t see your question. I think they’ll show Jeter and Mo all the respect they deserve and I don’t think it will effect their other plans next year.
sunny615
i don’t totally disagree but last year & the year before we heard the same thing
matsui is 35 years old
we could of gotten another very productive year out of him easily & for 6.5 million it would be a steal
it is about building the best team possible for the cheapest amount of money & no fa available is a better option to dh for us than matsui
we do not have that same killer lineup that we had & granderson is a start but kills us in the 2 spot against lefties
cg & matsui would of done it for me
now we need either holliday or 2 lesser players to fill the 2 & 5 spots
i would rather get holliday
we are going to pay next year for an o.f. anyways so why not do it now???
if waiting for a fa o.f. next year is the better way to go then i am all for it but our lineup took a big hit
we are going to miss matsui more than you know
“Swish would be a terrible DH and anyway, he’s not a bad enough fielder to relegate him to sitting on the bench most of the time.”
If the Yanks were to get Holliday I’d only DH Swisher against lefties in order to get Miranda out of the lineup and replace him with Cabrera.
Hey Maine Yankee,
Just wanted to send friendly hello. Man, it was cold last night.
Do you think you guys will end up with Holliday?
Johnson at DH is fine
Johnson at DH AND Melky in left, is not.
Everyone talking about Johnson and his health needs to educate themselves about the nature of his injuries.
Brett-
You know what I would like to happen. If Chapman I am hoping/thinking it would have to be a minor league deal.
Once the other shoe drops w. Holliday I would think that cash could then re-engage on another SP, and or a DH.
For me, right now those would appear to be able to wait and the focus is on getting Holliday done before Xmas.
Sheets was in no hurry so that is good. If Cash cant go there I think what we talked about in terms of a trade becomes more of an option. Especially since one of Melky/gardener might become expendable. I, like you, take Cash at his word when he says that in the RIGHT trade he will move anyone.
What fascinating times these are.
If we sign Holliday, Swisher probably will spend a good amount of time at DH with Melky in right. Assuming they don’t sign a DH. Especially against lefties.
And there is no guarantee that Miranda/Vasquez can hit ML pitching on a consistent basis. And if that is the case, Swisher probably becomes the main DH. Who else is going to DH?
Swisher at DH is not a problem at all, especially if it means we got Holliday.
If the Yankees sign Johnson then I think that’s a pretty good indication they have moved away from Damon and are strongly considering Holliday which is what they should do given their needs and what is available.
Of course Melky Cabrera has trade value.
FanGraphs has him worth $7.2 million in 2009.
He earned $1.4 million.
He’s 25.
He plays CF.
He’s a good baserunner and defender.
He’s clutch.
“Totally understand that but the Braves are also trying to save money…Taking McLouth for Melky and maybe Miranda is pretty much a even swap, but McLouth is owed money while Melky is not…Melky trade value is high…just a idea”
Not sure about Melky’s trade value or the Braves financial position (they’ve been at between $90M and $100M for almost all of the last decade). Melky is an arb case and set to make $3M in ’10 while McLouth makes $5M. Not sure it’s enough savings for the Braves to do something like that. Adding Miranda maybe helps it along, but I understand he is hurt. Can’t speak for anyone, but would seem like something the Braves would rather not do.
ray (sox fan)
December 17th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Hey Maine Yankee,
Just wanted to send friendly hello. Man, it was cold last night.
Do you think you guys will end up with Holliday?
————————————–
Morning ray
Keeping the stove hot.
I guess I know the answer to that about as well as you know if the RS get Gonzales.
At least we can share one run for a banner(Celtics). They are starting to look better as KG recovers.
If he got freak injuries in Washington, why can’t he get those same freak injuries here?
Carl Pavano didn’t exactly have common injuries either, yet he continued to get them.
Some people are just made of glass and find ways to get injured, even in the strangest of ways. Johnson’s history indicates he is that guy. It isin’t a small sample size, it is virtually his entire career, especially since 03.
I loved Damon and Matsui as Yankees but Granderson + Holliday + Johnson makes for a significantly better lineup both offensively and defensively.
i see a holliday signing within a week
nj is not going to cut it,cg is not a good # 2 or # 5 hitter against lefties
holliday solves everything
then trade for a frontline starter or wait for next years fa pitchers
Brett,
People want All-Stars at every position.
Oh the pain, we MIGHT need to have one position where we don’t get league average production!!
Who cares that we get elite production from 5 positions (CF, 3B, 2B, SS, C), we need all-stars at every position!
Phil
I’m sure they will too. And Jeet’s is not that big a deal because he will continue to hit for the next 4-5 yrs but with Mo I mean it’s gonna be tough I love him we all do but the fact is he’ll be 42 and a 3yr deal takes him to like 45 for 15mil per? It’s only $ but that’s gotta be tough philosophically for Cash no?
Johnson’s injuries may be flukey, but there is no denying the fact that he’s been on the DL for 10 consecutive seasons.
Johnson’s injuries may be flukey, but there is no denying the fact that he’s been on the DL for 10 consecutive seasons.
Johnson and Holliday would be great. I don’t think signing NJ alone is a good risk though.
Forget Damon.
Go get Holliday for LF, play Melky in RF with his strong throwing arm, & DH Swisher.
That gives a better defensive OF, faster & with better arms that last yrs.
It gives you flexibility with Swish being able to play both RF, LF, & iB.
It gives you a switch hitting DH with power & high OBP.
I’d rather give Holilday $16M than give Damon the $13M he wants. Holliday is in his prime & will put up 30+ HR’s, 100+ RBIs, .320 AVG.
Bat him 5th behind Tex. Flip flop Alex & Tex that way you don’t 2 RH hitters in a row.
Add a low cost high risk starter (Bedard), & we are stronger that last yr.
Rivera is still worth every penny. I believe the yankees will try to go year to year with him after next year, but i dont think they want to get into a huge dispute with him or jeter on contracts. Jeter says he can play until he is 42. That gives him 5 years after 2010. Rivera says he will keep playing as long as he is good. I dont see him getting worse. They are two we have to have. They know it…
If they sign Johnson, that means Holliday or bust.
You can’t bring back Damon to be the full-time LF in that scenario.
“I’m sure they will too. And Jeet’s is not that big a deal because he will continue to hit for the next 4-5 yrs but with Mo I mean it’s gonna be tough I love him we all do but the fact is he’ll be 42 and a 3yr deal takes him to like 45 for 15mil per? It’s only $ but that’s gotta be tough philosophically for Cash no?”
Let’s see how Rivera does in 2010 before we worry about 2011 and beyond. His effectiveness and health in 2010 will have great influence on what happens beyond this upcoming season.
MTU
December 17th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Brett-
You know what I would like to happen. If Chapman I am hoping/thinking it would have to be a minor league deal.
Once the other shoe drops w. Holliday I would think that cash could then re-engage on another SP, and or a DH.
For me, right now those would appear to be able to wait and the focus is on getting Holliday done before Xmas.
Sheets was in no hurry so that is good. If Cash cant go there I think what we talked about in terms of a trade becomes more of an option. Especially since one of Melky/gardener might become expendable. I, like you, take Cash at his word when he says that in the RIGHT trade he will move anyone.
What fascinating times these are.
—
I think Cashman’s working the trade market for an SP and Holliday and Chapman at the same time.
The last thing he will do is think about DH as he said they’re ‘begging’ for jobs.
As for Sheets, I don’t think he’s Cashman’s priority because I find it hard to believe that a player who missed an entire year isn’t anxious to sign with a team. He had a year to think about his options and still wants to ‘wait’. It doesn’t make sense. He’s a fallback option for Cashman. So judging by the current rotation and the risks involved and also looking at the free agent market for starters, I hope Cashman can grab Josh Johnson.
It is fascinating and exciting so…
I’m gonna bomb the blog again with my tradespeak – shake things up a bit in here. I’m tired of talking about Nick Johnson. The friggin guy has a steel rod in his leg.
Josh Johnson.
I think Cashman should offer 4 – count them FOUR – major league caliber players.
Jesus Montero (c)
Phil Hughes (sp)
Brett Gardner (cf)
Juan Miranda (1b)
Betsy, you’re depending on Posada staying healthy to provide firepower. NYY would be better off signing Aubrey Huff, who has the power, hits for a good average and can at least play more than first base when needed.
GB -
If Posada’s health is your primary concern then your argument shouldn’t be about signing Johnson, it should be that the Yankees have to sign a power hitting catcher to back up Jorge.
Aubrey Huff is cooked as an everyday player. He can’t play the field and Nick Johnson – playing in pitchers’ parks – out performed him in every way offensively; higher BA, OBP, SLG
And there is no guarantee that Miranda/Vasquez can hit ML pitching on a consistent basis. And if that is the case, Swisher probably becomes the main DH. Who else is going to DH
****************************************************
there is also no guarantee that Swish won’t hit .215 next year like he did the year before last. It’s not about guarantees Miranda has shown enough to make them comfortable that he’ll be able to handle the pitchers on this level. He did hit a 469ft homer off a major league pitcher 2mos ago that I’m sure Cash,Girardi and Long remember
Has the press conference happened yet?
Not sure about Melky’s trade value or the Braves financial position (they’ve been at between $90M and $100M for almost all of the last decade). Melky is an arb case and set to make $3M in ‘10 while McLouth makes $5M. Not sure it’s enough savings for the Braves to do something like that. Adding Miranda maybe helps it along, but I understand he is hurt. Can’t speak for anyone, but would seem like something the Braves would rather not do.
—-
all good points…just an idea
I think if the Yankees sign Johnson they can just focus on pitching.
Granderson replaces Damon’s production
Johnson is a slight downgrade from Matsui but I think he fits REAL well into the 2 hole on this line up. Like scary well.
Lets get him locked up and focus on pitching.
“Johnson’s injuries may be flukey, but there is no denying the fact that he’s been on the DL for 10 consecutive seasons.”
Fluke decade?
On the DL for 10 years.
That doesn’t indicate someone who can be relied upon. Like Moises Alou the last few years. Great hitter when healthy, never healthy, everyone relies on him but he doesn’t deserve to be relied upon.
It doesn’t matter the nature of the injuries— when you have the history he does, it is pretty clear that he gets hurt doing pretty much anything.
Sharkdaddy,
Signing Holliday solves so many problems and gives you many options at DH. You could do what you said and DH swisher, you could sign a guy like NJ and explore trades for melky, gardner or swisher. Its a no brainer to me unless Hal just flatly says no.
On Damon :
At this point I hope that ship has already sailed. I prefer Holliday at this point. If Damon relents and goes for a 2 year at lower than 13 million then I think he can still be our man. Depends on how Johnny sees his value, and what kind of market is still waiting for him out there. No offers have been visible so I am hoping he does not change his mind in time and just moves on instead.
Brett,
People want All-Stars at every position.
Oh the pain, we MIGHT need to have one position where we don’t get league average production!!
Who cares that we get elite production from 5 positions (CF, 3B, 2B, SS, C), we need all-stars at every position!
—–
Here, here.
I agree. Get Nick Johnson and let Damon go find his 4 years/13 mil from some GM with a death wish. I can’t wait to see Damon’s face when the Yankees sign someone that puts them out of the running for him.
He will have overplayed his hand to the maximum.
Total miscalculation for the Yanks to not offer Damon arbitration.
But Johnson’s power is not his strength. His hitting eye is. The Yankees’ value patience and wearing down opposing pitchers, which is why they see greater beauty in a Nick Swisher than others. And Johnson saw more pitches per plate appearance (4.38) than Swisher (4.27) last year, and that was the third highest total in the majors. His .426 on-base percentage was the third best in the majors behind the MVP tandem of Joe Mauer (.444) and Albert Pujols (.443).
That kind of patience would allow him to bat second behind Jeter; and besides the short right-field porch, hitting in front of Teixeira and Alex Rodriguez should inflate Johnson’s power as he sees plenty of fastballs. Also, the Yanks could hope to preserve Johnson’s fragile body as mainly a DH and since he came up a Yankee the organization has a pretty strong certainty he would not be afraid to play in New York.
The Yankees did consider signing Mike Cameron, putting him in center, Granderson in left and Melky Cabrera in right with Swisher as the DH. But the Yanks worried about injecting so many strikeouts into their lineup with Cameron and Granderson after they combined for 296 last year. Johnson had more walks (99) than strikeouts (84) last year.
And while Granderson is horrible against lefty pitching, Johnson – like Matsui – is among the best lefty vs. lefty hitters in the majors. His .440 on-base percentage vs. southpaws was the best in the majors (minimum 100 at-bats vs. LHPs) and by a lot (Chase Utley was second at .417). Only Utley with 35 drew more walks as a lefty vs. lefty than Johnson’s 28. Again Johnson lacks Matsui’s power in this role since Matsui’s 13 homers off lefties were tied for the major league high and Johnson had but two.
But no lefty saw more pitches per plate appearance (4.52) vs. lefty pitching than Johnson, who interestingly was tied with recent Red Sox acquisition Jeremy Hermida”
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....DcH7YMzaXO
Conference is about to begin . Welcome Curtis !!
Now maybe people can remember that we signed Granderson and he’s actually a very good hitter……
A-Rod and CC are at the press conference!
Wow, cool – Alex and CC are there!
I said it before and I’ll say it again. The Nick Johnson rumors may just be a show for Johnny Damon.
Cashman could just be making a public display to tell Johnny that it’s time he comes off his salary demands if he wants to be a Yankee.
In the end, I believe that it’s still more likely that Damon or Holliday wind up here than Nick Johnson. That said, offensively, Nick Johnson would be a terrific fit.
Chip
December 17th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Betsy, you’re depending on Posada staying healthy to provide firepower. NYY would be better off signing Aubrey Huff, who has the power, hits for a good average and can at least play more than first base when needed.
GB -
If Posada’s health is your primary concern then your argument shouldn’t be about signing Johnson, it should be that the Yankees have to sign a power hitting catcher to back up Jorge.
Aubrey Huff is cooked as an everyday player. He can’t play the field and Nick Johnson – playing in pitchers’ parks – out performed him in every way offensively; higher BA, OBP, SLG
————————————————————
How many power hitting backup catchers are on the block? Exactly ZERO. so, you’ve gotten over your Dejesus and Manny Ramirez stage and have graduated to Nick Johnson, huh? Who’s next? Nick Punto?
O*Line
December 17th, 2009 at 11:09 am
A-Rod and CC are at the press conference!
*****************
Awesome! So glad I taped it
Good job Abomb !!
Let’s take a look at a budget and why the Yankees can afford Holliday…
2009 Salaries for OF/DH:
Damon -13MM
Matsui -13MM
Nady -6.5MM
32.5MM coming off the books
2010:
Damon DH: 8MM (2 yrs)
Holliday LF: 18 MM (5 years)
Granderson CF: 5.5 MM
Swisher RF
Melky: 4th outfielder
Total = 32.5 MM = same amount spent in 2009
Alternative without Damon:
Holliday LF: 18MM
Granderson CF: 5.5 MM
Swisher DH/RF and Melky RF/4th outfield
Total: 23.5MM savings of 9MM
Sure Johnson excels against lefties but so does Nady at 1/2 the cost. With Holliday, they need to go cheap.
Number 14!
hmm 14 does make sense. since 14 is half of 28.
Listening to Granderson press conference. Hey Zillo, drink a few Red Bulls before you take the mike. Sounds like he’s at a wake.
If we sign Holliday, who cares what we do at DH?
If we sign Johnson, we still have a question about LF and what to do at DH when Johnson inevitably goes on the DL.
They gave Curtis Lou Piniella’s number. I can’t believe Joe didn’t give him 28.
I think it’s more likely that the Braves unload Lowe or Vazquez than McLouth.
They would love to move Lowe but I’m not sure that contract is tradeable.
Brian Cashman in the house !!!
lol could Zillo sound less enthused?
This is hilarious
hmm 14 does make sense. since 14 is half of 28.
Poor Eric Hinske….
“Total miscalculation for the Yanks to not offer Damon arbitration.”
You think? In what way? If the Yankees did offer it, don’t you think there’s a better than 50/50 chance he takes it and gets one year at $13M, perhaps more? Have you heard of other teams offering up the numbers and years he is seeking? Don’t you think the chances of him getting those numbers or anything close to them are greatly diminished if the buying team loses a high draft pick?
If Nick Johnson is signed as a DH, someone needs to be fired.
How is he a better option than Matsui? He’s on base 5% more than Matsui. whippee. He’s hurt every year and he has no power.
I thought they were going to retire Pinella’s #14?
Cash money is good to have.
Yanks who have worn #14
http://yankeesnumbers.com/play.....=%3D%2C%2C
How many power hitting backup catchers are on the block? Exactly ZERO. so, you’ve gotten over your Dejesus and Manny Ramirez stage and have graduated to Nick Johnson, huh? Who’s next? Nick Punto?
—–
I love reality. Facts are a stubborn thing.
LOL Granderson – he and Joe can go out for Italian food. If Granderson likes Italian, he’ll love NY and he’ll love the Bronx
Can’t wait for the season to Start ! .
Daver, you didn’t factor in the players who got raises or pettites new deal. That said I think they can fit Holliday in of they want to, its all up to Hal.
I really like the idea of signing Holliday, but I am concerned about the long-term ramifications of the associated contract.
My fear is that signing Holliday will limit our ability to ink one of the free agent pitchers available next off-season.
Cash looks like he got some sleep since the winter meetings.
They gave Granderson #14… I guess that ends the Eric Hinske era
Damn….
Tom on N.J.
December 17th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Number 14!
*****************
You mean they aren’t going to retire it for Wilson Betemit?
Brett-
Your logic is impeccable. Dont agree on JJ though this year.
On sheets. He is willing to wait as it has been reported he wants to set up a throwung session before signing, That would prove his health and raise his value somewhat.
point is that buys time.
He is very, very good if he can prove he is healthy.
I wouldm’t mind Holliday + Sheets and except for minor issues we call it an off season. (Chapman, of course).
How many power hitting backup catchers are on the block? Exactly ZERO. so, you’ve gotten over your Dejesus and Manny Ramirez stage and have graduated to Nick Johnson, huh? Who’s next? Nick Punto?
Yes I’m talking about Nick Johnson. Why? Because I’m reading the same report everyone else is about the Yankees negotiating with him about a contract. If you don’t like the idea of Johnson being here, that’s entirely your right.
What I’m saying is that if your critique of Nick Johnson is that “What if Jorge gets hurt” well that’s just silly.
This kid is a winner.
Bret here’s a lesson on Fangraphs value.
That number is how much you would have to spend in free agency to replace his production. So instead of TRADING away a guy that we pay $1.2mil so that we can pay someone $8mil to give us the same exact thing… why not just keep him and let him give us that same production? I’d rather a 24 year old to it than a 35 year old…
Glad to see Arod left the ladies alone for a day to support his new teammate !
“Now maybe people can remember that we signed Granderson and he’s actually a very good hitter……”
Anyone really arguing that? Suggesting that he’s better suited to 5 or 6 in the lineup rather than one of the tablesetting spots isn’t an idictment. He’s a .275 avg/.345 OBP guy with legit pop. If I’m managing, I want that more in the middle of my order than the top of it.
Hoffa
December 17th, 2009 at 11:17 am
I really like the idea of signing Holliday, but I am concerned about the long-term ramifications of the associated contract.
My fear is that signing Holliday will limit our ability to ink one of the free agent pitchers available next off-season.
—
The Yanks might not need to sign one of the free agent pitchers available next offseason. And if they are forced to bolster the rotation via free agency, they can move Swisher’s contract which pays him 9 million in 2011. They also have Pettitte off the books (11.75) and Mo is due for a 3.25 paycut.
That’s 24 mil.
Wow, WFAN left the presser to do a 20/20 – that’s ridiculous.
How is he a better option than Matsui? He’s on base 5% more than Matsui. whippee. He’s hurt every year and he has no power.
In my opinion you’re comparing him to the wrong guy. Granderson’s the one who is going to take Matsui’s spot in the batting order.
Johnson, offensively, would be replacing Damon not Matsui. Now Johnson’s still not as complete and offensive player as Damon, but if Johnny is going to stick to his contract demands then the Yankees might have no choice but to move on.
MTU, while I would love both Holliday and Sheets and think on paper the Yankees would be the best team in baseball by quiet a bit, I just don’t see Hal allowing them to get both. I think it may end up being an either or situation and Holliday makes more sense if that’s the case because of Sheets injury history. I could be wrong, I hope I am. Holliday would give the Yankees by far the best lineup in baseball and Sheets (if healthy) makes the Yankees rotation comparable to the Sox IMO
Like CG’s comment about patrolling the OF and making the NYY pitchers’ lives easier.
Tom B
December 17th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Bret here’s a lesson on Fangraphs value.
That number is how much you would have to spend in free agency to replace his production. So instead of TRADING away a guy that we pay $1.2mil so that we can pay someone $8mil to give us the same exact thing… why not just keep him and let him give us that same production? I’d rather a 24 year old to it than a 35 year old…
—
I’d like to keep Melky too. Although he’d be the 9th hitter, his value is in being a capable backup at CF for Granderson. I’d rather trade Gardner who at this point is #3 on the CF depth chart.
Granderson will get #28 next year when Girardi switches to #29 after we win again. I’m sure that was a part of the conversation with Joe and Granderson lol
Ok, nice press conference.
Now sign Nick the Stick and Holliday and have another joint press conference next week before Christmas.
NJ really only makes sense if Holliday is signed…..or Damon. I do not want Melky in LF……..
It’s nice to see ARod and CC on hand to welcome him. It’s cool that we can now have more guys than just Jete taking this kind of role with the team.
say whatever you want about arod and his primadonna attitude but do you ever see derek jeter at press conferences to introduce new players?
Granderson was at the Rangers/Islanders game last night.
blake
December 17th, 2009 at 11:23 am
MTU, while I would love both Holliday and Sheets and think on paper the Yankees would be the best team in baseball by quiet a bit, I just don’t see Hal allowing them to get both. I think it may end up being an either or situation and Holliday makes more sense if that’s the case because of Sheets injury history. I could be wrong, I hope I am. Holliday would give the Yankees by far the best lineup in baseball and Sheets (if healthy) makes the Yankees rotation comparable to the Sox IMO
—
I agree. I think Holliday makes the most sense and he’ll be a Yankee but that squeezes out Sheets and forces Cashman to the trade market for SP. That or Duke.
sab
December 17th, 2009 at 11:25 am
say whatever you want about arod and his primadonna attitude but do you ever see derek jeter at press conferences to introduce new players?
*******************
The last one I remember Jete at was Alex’s. lol
Granderson is so well spoken…….I can’t wait to watch this on YES later.
I Love Curtis Granderson even more!
Erin
December 17th, 2009 at 11:10 am
O*Line
December 17th, 2009 at 11:09 am
A-Rod and CC are at the press conference!
*****************
Hopefully they replay it later…
Awesome! So glad I taped it
____________________________________________________________If I pretended that I lived in this century and had a DVR I would have taped it too
Welcome Curtis
OK so we had the press conference, now Cashman – Back to Work ! Let’s getting something else done !
The “value” was based on him starting in center field though, not being a backup. So we already have an $8mil FA left fielder named Melky Cabrera… why do we need another one?
Ralph
December 17th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Granderson will get #28 next year when Girardi switches to #29 after we win again. I’m sure that was a part of the conversation with Joe and Granderson lol
*****************
Sounds good to me!
Granderson hitting 5th would be a disaster.
A-Rod will never see a pitch to hit in a big spot. Teams will walk A-Rod and bring in a lefty to face Granderson late in games.
When you are protecting the best player in baseball, it should be someone who can hit all kinds of pitching. Grandeson 6th behind Jorge is fine though.
NYY626
December 17th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Erin
December 17th, 2009 at 11:10 am
O*Line
December 17th, 2009 at 11:09 am
If I pretended that I lived in this century and had a DVR I would have taped it too Hopefully they replay it later…
*********************
I’m sure they will. You might even be able to watch it online.
Brett, I have wanted sheets to be a Yankee for a long time.. I love watching him pitch. However given the pitching that will be available next year and the Yankees glaring need for a LFer that can hit behind Arod, I think Holliday is the way to go if its an either or situation. They can pick up Duke or possibly trade melky or swisher for a starter.
Erin
December 17th, 2009 at 11:26 am
sab
December 17th, 2009 at 11:25 am
say whatever you want about arod and his primadonna attitude but do you ever see derek jeter at press conferences to introduce new players?
*******************
The last one I remember Jete at was Alex’s. lol
———————————————————-
Yes but I don’t think that one counts – didn’t they get alex just as spring training was starting? if so then jeter HAD to be there so why not show up at the PC – i’ve never seen jeter at one of these in the Bronx in december or january
How many power hitting backup catchers are on the block? Exactly ZERO. so, you’ve gotten over your Dejesus and Manny Ramirez stage and have graduated to Nick Johnson, huh? Who’s next? Nick Punto?
And by the way, I don’t know how much more clearly I can put it than I have. But I still believe that the most likely scenario has the Yankees adding either Damon or Holliday.
That said, Nick Johnson is the rumor of the day (started by the NY Post not me). You disagree, as is your right, but man up and stop whining about my posts when your argument falls flat.
Jete couldnt go to the conference cause hes too busy rehearsing for SNL
Girardi wanted to make sure that Granderson was “comfortable” with the number and will “continue to talk to him to make sure”.
Sounds like Joe isn’t married to #28. Looks like Granderson was nice enough to not demand it because he knew Joe was thinking about wearing it lol
The craziness needs to stop. Why wouldn’t Posada be perfectly fine hitting 5th behind A-Rod? We don’t need a 5 hitter we need a 2 hitter…. until Cano steps up his game and takes one of those 2 spots.
So I went out with my Red sox fan buddy on Sat.
He says “You ever hear Granderson Speak? Guy sounds like he went to Harvard” Then he says “you guys (the Yankees) are getting all the good guys AND all the Good guys”
NYY626 -
YES is schedule to replay it twice today. Once at 5:30 EST and another time later in the evening (maybe 10ish, I don’t remember exactly).
NYY626
December 17th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Jete couldnt go to the conference cause hes too busy rehearsing for SNL
******************
Right! I can’t wait for Saturday night
Hal says we’re not done.
Girardi says we’re looking at left field.
Girardi’s 20th anniversary. Wow, a lot of milestones for him this year
Jeter
Granderson
Rodriguez
Tex
Holliday
Posada
Cano
Swisher
DH Du Jour
2010 Lineup.
“Hal says we’re not done.”
Betsy,
There you go.:)
Tom B
December 17th, 2009 at 11:27 am
The “value” was based on him starting in center field though, not being a backup. So we already have an $8mil FA left fielder named Melky Cabrera… why do we need another one?
—
Melky’s replacing himself offensively though if Holliday and Granderson are both added. Those 2 replace Matsui and Damon.
It makes no difference to me whether he plays LF, CF or RF with Swisher as the DH. He’s the 9 hitter.
You could trade Melky and his 3 mil (arby estimate) as a bargain CF but then you need to put Swisher in RF and sign a DH for 3 mil and depend on him full time.
Essentially, by trading Melky you lose a position player, downgrade the defense and save no money.
You better account for those losses in trading him.
I just saw a picture of Matsui in an Angels hat and I almost vomited. Talk about a classy guy though. I love that man.
Every time Matsui hit a dinger or got an important, clutch hit as he so often did, I could always count on two things occurring almost simultaneously:
1. My wife would holler “MATSUIIIII!!!!”
2. My older brother would text me “MATSUIIIIII!!!!”
I’ll definitely miss that, but it was time to move on. Best of luck to Hideki in Anaheim. I’m sure we’ll run into him soon enough. Thanks for the hard work and for that amazing performance in Game 6. You are a Yankee.
Johnson at DH would be great if we find a legit leftfielder.
Then we can afford to take the risk of getting production from NJ because we would be getting good production from LF and then even if NJ gets injured, we can withstand it.
Different story if Melky is in left, however…
Uncle Ellsworth,
I might not have been as excited about Granderson after first hearing the news, but as the week has unfolded, I’ve definitely warmed up.
The guy is a class act and reminds me a lot of guys like Sabathia. A really well-spoken, humble, but motivated and talented individual.
If we’re losing a clubhouse guy like Damon, at least we can comfort ourselves knowing that we’re bringing in another one like Curtis.
Of course we’re not done… we have no left fielder, DH, and still need another starter.
Just hope Hal’s budget enables Cash to fill those holes.
The Mad Prince in Pinstripes
December 17th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Every time Matsui hit a dinger or got an important, clutch hit as he so often did, I could always count on two things occurring almost simultaneously:
1. My wife would holler “MATSUIIIII!!!!”
*******************
Your wife and I are a lot alike. I would do the same thing. lol
I just looked at pictures from his press conference a little while ago, and had pretty much the same reaction you did.
New post
“Hal says we’re not done.”
—————————————————
it depends on the definition of “not done”
If its for holliday to make up for the lose of matsui/damon and another decent starter then great.
If its Nick DL Johnson and a jon garland then yes they are Done – but not in a good way -in the “Stick a fork in them” way.
Have any of you thought long and hard about how Matsui will be perceived in 10 or 20 years? He and Ichiro were the two premier hitters to join MLB and only two years apart. Both have had a TREMENDOUS impact for their respective teams and for baseball on an international scale. Its an honor to have had one of those two Japanese baseball giants play for our club. I think that you’ll see Matsui enter the HOF someday. Least ways, I hope that’s the case.
Frank, my point was that people seem to have forgotten about Granderson since the trade went down. Everyone is freaking out about this team and how terrible it’s going to be. The absence of Matsui is not going to bring down the Yankees. They felt they wanted to do another way and now they will execute that plan. Granderson has good power – that was my point. We don’t need 8 players hitting 20 HRs – we have more than enough power on this team. Plus, people are talking as though if we get Johnson, it means we have Melky in LF. If we get Damon or Holliday, that’s more power….though for me, Damon’s ship has passed (and he didn’t hit a HR the last 6 weeks of the season – ouch).
Girardi should have let Granderson keep his #…..weird.
Erin,
That’s hilarious.
The guy is just so EASY to root for. I’ve heard all kinds of negative comments about Jeter, A-Rod, Posada, etc. from fans of other teams, but I’ve never heard one negative thing out of anyone’s mouth about Hideki Matsui.
What’s not to love?
rodg12
December 17th, 2009 at 11:32 am
NYY626 -
YES is schedule to replay it twice today. Once at 5:30 EST and another time later in the evening (maybe 10ish, I don’t remember exactly).
____________________________________________________________Thanks for the info!
Hoffa
December 17th, 2009 at 11:17 am
I really like the idea of signing Holliday, but I am concerned about the long-term ramifications of the associated contract.
My fear is that signing Holliday will limit our ability to ink one of the free agent pitchers available next off-season.
——-
Pettittes money frees up pitching money for next year. Holliday is a must this year just like Tex was a must last year.
Swisher should be the DH the majority of the time moving to OF or 1B when the DH spot needs to be opened up for Posada, Arod, Jeter, Tex. Sign Sheets and move Joba to the pen.
Betsy,
Great post…the voice of reason.
I think a lot of Yankee fans on this blog are ultra-reactionary. I’ve warmed up to Granderson considerably over the past week. I think it will be a good move in the long run.
The offseason is young and there are still plenty of options out there.
I for one trust the Yankee brass, but as of now, quite frankly, I think our offense is JUST FINE. If I am the Yankees, I’d be looking for inexpensive DHs that hit for average and high OBP…hint hint.
We don’t need to go out and dump massive contracts on Left Fielders…its just not necessary.
my 2nd fave player, the past 5 years looks perfect in pinstripes. Welcome to the Bx, Curtis Granderson
we don’t need a Matt Holliday. Next step, sign Nick Johnson
Chip
December 17th, 2009 at 11:23 am
How is he a better option than Matsui? He’s on base 5% more than Matsui. whippee. He’s hurt every year and he has no power.
In my opinion you’re comparing him to the wrong guy. Granderson’s the one who is going to take Matsui’s spot in the batting order.
Johnson, offensively, would be replacing Damon not Matsui. Now Johnson’s still not as complete and offensive player as Damon, but if Johnny is going to stick to his contract demands then the Yankees might have no choice but to move on.
—————
Granderson is more of a top of the order guy. He can be used as a #5 but he should be a #2 or leadoff. I don’t think anything has been set in stone as to where he is hitting yet.
As far as comparing him to Damon, I’d still rather have Damon with his contract demands than going halfed with Johnson and his yearly injury issues.
“Frank, my point was that people seem to have forgotten about Granderson since the trade went down. Everyone is freaking out about this team and how terrible it’s going to be”
————————————————
betsy: yes. Cuz they’re only thinking/trying to get Matt Holliday. The word ‘spoiled’ comes to mind
Did I say I loved Curtis Granderson yet?
bru – I don’t disagree with you either – Matsui was Mr. Clutch in my book and the Yankees will be sorry to see him go, but in the end, with aging core players, the DH spot becomes that much more valuable to have someone that can play a role positionally. Would it have killed the Yanks to get Matsui for one more year? Absolutely not, but I also can’t say that I blame them for making it a priority either.
If the Yanks go out and get Holliday, the OF would have him in LF, Granderson in CF and a choice of Swisher, Melky or Gardner for RF. And that’s not even considering Hoffman, who could potentially contribute.
The possibility of rotating a few different players into the DH spot is possible. The possibility of someone being traded for a back of the rotation pitcher or DH is out there too.
If Damon wants $13M per, he may be done as a Yank unless he goes out and gets an arm transplant. Offering a little more than that for Holliday is a no-brainer.
Never mind Boston signing Lackey and getting Cameron. Cameron’s merely average and he’s getting old. But as a follow-up to last off season, just adding Granderson & Holliday would already be a very good pair of moves for the Yanks.
Hard to see Matsui & Damon go of course, but it’s an overall long term upgrade with both offense AND defense in mind.
Taking a gamble on Sheets or Duescherere (spelling?) could then be worth it. If the gamble pays off it’s a bonus.
Yanks are in a good spot if they get Holliday.
Wouldn’t Granderson hit 2 and Holliday 5?